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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3200</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>10/23/00 9:19:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3200<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: The Game Systems....<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: SotA 2<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Starport Announcements<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Special PSI Powers (and the Law of Unintended Uses)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR>Action &amp; Reaction (was Re: Question about canon technology)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>RE: Type-L Lab Ship<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>RE: "other" psi powers<BR>RE: "other" psi powers<BR>Re: Special PSI Powers (long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 06:14:36 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; to reintegrate the timeline!<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, I have just shut down my Spinward Marches all-newbie campaign (only my<BR>&gt; girlfriend posted, and she's gone back to medical school now and hasn't the<BR>&gt; time). I'm game. Anyone interested? Mil off-list please. I'll need a little<BR>&gt; time to create some rubber physics and a plausible time machine but...yeah.<BR><BR>Here's an appropriate link for any time-travel scenario:<BR><BR>http://www.clinton.net/~sammy/grandpa.htm<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:14:41 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; BTW, have you ever seen the video?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; A long time ago, sufficiently long ago that I can only remember<BR>&gt; &gt; bits and pieces, though I seem to recall some well-known group<BR>&gt; &gt; of puppets which parodied leading US political figures being in<BR>&gt; &gt; it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Isn't it the one that includes a lot of tromping thru a jungle by<BR>&gt; muppets/marionettes?. <BR><BR>IIRC the puppet troop used in the Genesis video was "Spitting Image"<BR>and was definately not muppet-like.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:20:06 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Well, I have just shut down my Spinward Marches all-newbie <BR>&gt; campaign (only my<BR>&gt; &gt; girlfriend posted, and she's gone back to medical school <BR>&gt; now and hasn't the<BR>&gt; &gt; time). I'm game. Anyone interested? Mil off-list please. <BR>&gt; I'll need a little<BR>&gt; &gt; time to create some rubber physics and a plausible time <BR>&gt; machine but...yeah.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Here's an appropriate link for any time-travel scenario:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.clinton.net/~sammy/grandpa.htm<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I was expecting something like 'All you Zombies'...but this is even better.<BR>BTW, is there a technical term for when whatever you're drinking comes out<BR>of your nose? (apart from 'gross' )<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:26:53 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Galactica 80 is non-canon. :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Except for the episode "The Return of Starbuck" (minus the <BR>&gt; framing story).<BR><BR>As I heard it this story was originally conceived&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; way&nbsp; of<BR>'exiting' the Starbuck character out of the&nbsp; original&nbsp; series&nbsp; if<BR>the actor (Dirk Benedict) ever decided to leave.&nbsp; This turned out<BR>to be unnecessary and the story was expanded for Galactica 80 ...<BR>with the framing story AND with the&nbsp; woman&nbsp; on&nbsp; the&nbsp; planet&nbsp; with<BR>Starbuck.&nbsp; Thus this story has since been released in&nbsp; a&nbsp; cutdown<BR>form as part of the original series and in the expanded&nbsp; form&nbsp; in<BR>Galactica 80.&nbsp; IMHO even though I loath Galactica 80 the expanded<BR>form is the better of the two.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:33:00 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: SotA 2<BR><BR>The "Edsel" is a prime example of this, I'm told.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Monday, October 23, 2000, at 01:05 AM, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Problem is, what people want and what they _say_ they want are sometimes two&nbsp; <BR>&gt; different things. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:36:15 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On Monday, October 23, 2000, at 12:26 PM, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; IMHO even though I loath Galactica 80 the expanded <BR>&gt; form is the better of the two. <BR><BR>The follow-up story pitched would have had Starbuck joining the white light/crystal ship brigade, a nice twist for a character you always knew wasn't just out for himself.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:44:50 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport Announcements<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; BTW, with uncompressed WAV files and a few other "raw data"<BR>&gt; format's you can create interesting effects simply by reversing<BR>&gt; the file. That is start with the *last* byte (or byte pair, if<BR>&gt; it's a 16-bit file), copy that as the first byte of a new file,<BR>&gt; and then proceed backwards thru the file.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This gives you a time-reversed version of the sound (ie, what<BR>&gt; you'de get by playing the record or tape backwards). This can<BR>&gt; create some interesting "alien languages".<BR><BR>This trick can be used in other areas, too.&nbsp; I use sound FX in my<BR>sessions and one sound I got was from the Star&nbsp; Trek&nbsp; Generations<BR>CD: its of the Enterprise D coming in to crash.&nbsp; Take that&nbsp; sound<BR>followed by a reversed copy and you get the sound of&nbsp; skimming&nbsp; a<BR>gas giant for fuel (diving in and pulling out).<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:11:03 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Here's an appropriate link for any time-travel scenario:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; http://www.clinton.net/~sammy/grandpa.htm<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was expecting something like 'All you Zombies'...but this is even better.<BR>&gt; BTW, is there a technical term for when whatever you're drinking comes out<BR>&gt; of your nose? (apart from 'gross' )<BR><BR>"Splort" is the term most commonly used on the TML to describe<BR>involuntary beverage expulsion.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:22:30 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; Well, I have just shut down my Spinward Marches all-newbie<BR>&gt; campaign (only my girlfriend posted, and she's gone back to<BR>&gt; medical school now and hasn't the time). I'm game. Anyone<BR>&gt; interested? Mil off-list please. I'll need a little time to<BR>&gt; create some rubber physics and a plausible time machine<BR>&gt; but...yeah.<BR><BR>I always liked the&nbsp; Time&nbsp; Master&nbsp; supplement&nbsp; "Time&nbsp; Tricks"&nbsp; for<BR>handling time travel and temporal paradoxes&nbsp; in&nbsp; consistant&nbsp; game<BR>terms.&nbsp; It even covers "the players screw up the mission&nbsp; and&nbsp; so<BR>send a message back in time to their earlier selves telling&nbsp; them<BR>what to avoid"!!!&nbsp; And if you make&nbsp; the&nbsp; time/parallel&nbsp; dimension<BR>crossing machine an Ancient artifact you can skip a&nbsp; lot&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>rubber physics stuff ... as long as the game rules are consistant<BR>you can wave off the rest with "its too&nbsp; high&nbsp; tech&nbsp; for&nbsp; you&nbsp; to<BR>comprehend".<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:39:24 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 10:01 20.10.00 +0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;finally started to recover from the Short Night themselves,<BR><BR>BTW: Anybody else thought it peculiar, that the Long Night, prompted by a <BR>loss of financial stability lasted 700 years, but the Short Night, prompted <BR>by the total destruction of the Imperium by a doomsday weapon gone wild, <BR>which still roams the wilds, only lasted 70 years?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:10:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Special PSI Powers (and the Law of Unintended Uses)<BR><BR>A lot of the suggestions for Special Psi powers have been quite cool.&nbsp; But<BR>I have a question regarding the various kinetic powers:&nbsp; How have you<BR>dealt with the problem of being able to affect other peoples' insides?<BR>For instance, a telekinetic who can apply 1 kg of force to the right spot<BR>inside someone's brain or heart could kill them.&nbsp; Likewise with a "candle<BR>flame" or "frosty peice of metal".&nbsp; <BR><BR>The most obvious thing that occurs to me is that the power cannot<BR>penetrate the bio-electric field (or whatever) of another living thing.<BR>Ya, it's a handwave, but hey this is psi we're talking about!&nbsp; <BR><BR>Another possibility is to limit the powers to touch.&nbsp; You can still do a<BR>lot of damage with pyrokinetic powers if it's based on touch, but at least<BR>it's more like a conventional weapon and puts the psionicist in some<BR>danger.&nbsp; Applying this to telekinesis leads to a cool sort of enhanced<BR>strength:&nbsp; The character needs to touch an object to move it, but can<BR>otherwise direct it as if it had little weight (within the limits of his<BR>capacity to generate force).&nbsp; <BR><BR>Another issue with telekinesis: How do you determine the "dexterity" of<BR>the telekinetic force?&nbsp; Firing a gun by telekinesis involves lifting and<BR>steadying the gun (several vectors of force involved there) and then<BR>pulling the trigger.&nbsp; Is there a penalty to do this relative to, say,<BR>pushing the gun across the floor? (one vector of force only)<BR><BR>Oh, and Teleprojection (teleporting others) is just _nasty_.&nbsp; Another<BR>instant death power if not checked in some way.&nbsp; This is harder to limit<BR>plausibly, IMO.&nbsp; You can rule that the subject has to be willing, but that<BR>just "feels" too arbitrary.&nbsp; Maybe if you can only do it with objects.<BR>But then, can you teleport the object into another being?&nbsp; Yeesh. :-)<BR><BR>Mind control is also pretty rough, but at least there's a "battle of<BR>willpowers" to fall back on ("These are not the droids...")<BR><BR>One power that no one's brought up so far is "object reading".&nbsp; The<BR>ability to tell the past of an object or a person associated with an<BR>object by touching it.&nbsp; A cool but not too torquey power.<BR><BR>Anyway, just some rambling thoughts...<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:14:30 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>"hehehehe.. I'll just take off my glasses and everybody becomes beige<BR>blobs.."<BR><BR>Uh, ya, a bunch of pale beige undulating blobs and the occasional reedy<BR>shifting shape (skinny geek), lovely... :-)&nbsp; Reminds me of some Pagan<BR>rites I've heard about: "lots of naked people who should not be naked!"<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:18:52 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>It has been brought to my attention that this system contains several erorrs <BR>&lt;sic ;-)&gt;. I have two excuses for this:<BR><BR>1. It was completely from memory.<BR>2. I like T4.<BR><BR>So, here's the Official Errata for the GECGS:<BR><BR>0.0 This is for CT.<BR><BR>3.2 Should read {S-[(D/2)-4]}+<BR><BR>3.3; 3.4 Should read [*+(D/3)]+, where * is either C or P<BR><BR>3.5 (Clarification) Means the a decoration requires a throw of twice the <BR>Mission Difficulty, with positive Die Modifiers equal to the modifiers used <BR>for enlistment<BR><BR>Sorry for the inconvenience.<BR><BR>A quick note: I have used this system to generate a bounty hunter using the <BR>Other career. If this system seems unnecessaryy to do this, just remember <BR>how many skills a bounty hunter really needs (Gambling, Gun Combat, <BR>Brawling...)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR>&gt;Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:51:54 CDT<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Here's my Generic Expanded Character Generation System (GECGS).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Note: This is completely from memory. I've lost the sheet that I wrote it<BR>&gt;on.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Warnings: This system is fairly lifeless and provides no specific mission<BR>&gt;types. It's meant to replace Books 4-7. You can use these books if you <BR>&gt;like,<BR>&gt;but chances are that GECGS characters will actually be more powerful.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;With that said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;GECGS Checklist<BR>&gt;1.0 Roll up UPP<BR>&gt;2.0 Enlist in career as per normal rules.<BR>&gt;3.0 Roll 2D each year to determine mission difficulty. Higher is safer.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.1 If the difficulty is 12, then the mission is a Special Mission.<BR>&gt;Otherwise continue with 3.2.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.11 Roll once on each skill table, regardless of Education.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.12 Go to 4.0.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.2 Throw {S+[(D/2)-4]}+ for survival, where D is the mission difficulty<BR>&gt;rating and S is the normal survival throw (round up).<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.3 If not commissioned, throw [C-(D/3)]+, rounding down, where C is the<BR>&gt;normal commission throw.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.4 If commissioned, try for promotion. Throw [P-(D/3)], rounding down,<BR>&gt;where P is the normal promotion throw.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.5 Throw (2D-E)+ for a decoration, where E is the total DMs for<BR>&gt;Enlistment in that career.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.51 If the roll is 3+ greater than needed, a Level Two Decoration <BR>&gt;was<BR>&gt;earned. If the roll is 6+ greater than needed, a Level Three decoration was<BR>&gt;earned. (Optional: And so on...)<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.6 Throw D+ to gain a skill level, rolled from one fo the four tables.<BR>&gt;4.0 If the previous year was the fourth of a term, throw for re-enlistment.<BR>&gt;Otherwise, go to 3.0. (Optional: DM+1 to re-enlist if commissioned)<BR>&gt;5.0 Muster out as per normal rules. (Optional: Add one roll for each Level<BR>&gt;Three or higher decoration)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Obviously, those who wish for a more detailed background must decide the<BR>&gt;nature of each mission based on its difficulty. Only one promotion may be<BR>&gt;gained per term.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hope that helps.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:14:56 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Volker 'V.A.G'<BR>&gt; Greimann<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, 23 October 2000 9:39 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At 10:01 20.10.00 +0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;finally started to recover from the Short Night themselves,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW: Anybody else thought it peculiar, that the Long Night, prompted by a<BR>&gt; loss of financial stability lasted 700 years, but the Short<BR>&gt; Night, prompted<BR>&gt; by the total destruction of the Imperium by a doomsday weapon gone wild,<BR>&gt; which still roams the wilds, only lasted 70 years?<BR>&gt;<BR>Actually this would only be true in "pockets" and in the same way parts of<BR>the regions covered by the long night would also have recovered faster, some<BR>regions slower, and some not at all. The only differences between the two<BR>collapses would have been much less devastation during the long night as a<BR>result of weapon use, and no virus during the long night hanging around to<BR>complicate things.<BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:29:07 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR><BR>"I've had the Players play themselves.... they hate it... really intensly<BR>loathe it.... they really don't like being themselves... they wanna be<BR>people mush more skilled, powerful, and generally heroic....."<BR><BR>Geez, some people have such low self-esteem!&nbsp; Just cuz we're a bunch of<BR>pasty over-weight (or skinny)&nbsp; myopic introverts doesn't mean we can't be<BR>heros!*&nbsp; Why, my skills in programming Matlab alone could save the world<BR>many times over!!!&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>An interesting version of this I've always wanted to try involves the old<BR>V&amp;V notion:&nbsp; You are a super-hero.&nbsp; Your "normal life" is your secret<BR>identity.&nbsp; But then you transform into: &lt;drum roll&gt; <BR><BR>"The 'Stocky' But Nonetheless Heroic Avenger!!!" (tm)<BR><BR>Okay, okay, back to Trav:&nbsp; A lot of its fans would actually fare pretty<BR>well in the Trav universe (compared to say medieval fantasy).&nbsp; You don't<BR>have to be in shape to fire a gun or pilot a space craft, and computer<BR>skills (properly updated to C++++++, or whatever) would actually be handy. <BR><BR>Charles C. (man, what was in that coffee?)<BR><BR><BR>* Yes, I know there are probably a lot of ex-mil people on this list who<BR>are in decent shape, but the gamer population in general...well just go to<BR>GenCon one year.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:42:48 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Action &amp; Reaction (was Re: Question about canon technology)<BR><BR>"Get on ice skates, face to face with a friend. Then push. If you weigh<BR>the same, you'll move one way, hell move the other, AND THE POINT WHERE<BR>YOUR HANDS CONTACT HIM WON'T MOVE AT ALL."<BR><BR>Oh Leonard, you're so romantic!&nbsp; Do the two people swing away in a large<BR>arc, coming back together at the other side of the rink<BR>Torville&amp;Dean-style due to the curvature of space-time their respective<BR>masses produce?&nbsp; Or would they need thruster plates for that? :-)<BR><BR>Charles C. &lt;looks at coffee cup suspiciously, throws it in trash&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:08:33 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I was expecting something like 'All you Zombies'...but this is even better.<BR>&gt; BTW, is there a technical term for when whatever you're drinking comes out<BR>&gt; of your nose? (apart from 'gross' )<BR>&gt; <BR>"hana kara gyuunyuu" is used by Japanese children, but gyuunyuu is milk,<BR>specifically, and it just means "milk from the nose"<BR><BR>Kiri<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:13:47 GMT<BR>From: "Jeff Rowse" &lt;jeffrowse@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>Since X-Boats are crewed by a single indvidual, what's to stop him/her/it <BR>just turning the heating up (or cooling down) so that they can sit around <BR>naked?&nbsp; Saves a *lot* of clothes-washing! :-)<BR>On the other hand, don't forget that the Scouts are a somewhat losse-knit <BR>organization- they probably do wear whatever they deem most appropriate for <BR>whatever situation they find themselves in, as someone else suggested (sorry <BR>I cannot remember who it was).<BR><BR>Also, I work (no jokes, please) for a multi-national computer company based <BR>in the US, and we have a world-wide 'Assistance' database that we (are <BR>supposed to) use for asking our fellow wage-slaves for help... the "Buttered <BR>Cat" ''request'' ran to about 500-odd messages before it ran out of steam... <BR>&nbsp; One idea was, why not secure the Buttered Cat inside a wheel and attatch <BR>it to a car - since the cat and the butter will both repel the floor, you'd <BR>get a perPETual motion machine...<BR>&lt;SNIP&gt;<BR>&gt;Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:49:12 +0100<BR>&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Buttered Cat CG (was:&nbsp; Quantum Computing )<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Therefore, a cat with a slice of buttered bread strapped to its back<BR>&gt; &gt; will display CG characteristics, since the tendency for a slice of<BR>&gt; &gt; butterd bread to land butter-side-down will cancel the tendency for a<BR>&gt; &gt; cat to land on its feet.&nbsp; Presumably, the power requirement for CG is<BR>&gt; &gt; based both on providing life support for the cats needed for<BR>&gt; &gt; the effect<BR>&gt; &gt; and on replenishing the buttered bread supply for CG drives.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;Applause&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Your're overlooking one very important thing, John...the rotational motion<BR>&gt;caused by the effects of the cat trying to land on it's feet. If you try a<BR>&gt;practical experimnt where by a cat is dropped from a short height upside<BR>&gt;down, observation will reveal that the cat actually rotates such that it's<BR>&gt;legs are perpendicular to the plane of gravity and it can land on its feet.<BR>&gt;Experiments with buttered toast have revealed a similar effect. This means<BR>&gt;that a buttered-cat cg unit maintains it's CG field by constantly rotating.<BR>&gt;Simply apply an iron rod between the two and put the whole thing in a<BR>&gt;magnetic field and voila! you have a power source, a little thing I like to<BR>&gt;refer to as a 'Buttered-cat Dynamo'<BR>&gt;Dean<BR>&lt;UNSNIP&gt;<BR><BR>Jeff (aka 'The Jeff Rowse, of RFA fame').<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:35:28 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Type-L Lab Ship<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Does anyone know the actual name of the Type-L Lab ship <BR>&gt; class?&nbsp; In addition<BR>&gt; what (if any) other ships have you GMs or players given or received as<BR>&gt; mustering out benefits that differ from the typical ships given?<BR><BR>As a GM, I've given out a 150dton "command" scoutship, modified Far &amp;<BR>Fat Traders,&nbsp; and ships I've gleaned from various publications, including<BR>a Type H Hunter-class bounty hunter ship and a mission-specific prospector<BR>ship (Khuzdul-class from a White Dwarf).<BR><BR>I've quite an extensive list of ships with external illos. Quite a few<BR>also come with deckplans. All of it is complements of the efforts to TML<BR>members and other Traveller fans.<BR><BR>(&lt;tips hat&gt; Thank you, one and all!)<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:42:30 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>Jeff Rowse wrote:<BR>&gt; Since X-Boats are crewed by a single indvidual, what's to stop<BR>&gt; him/her/it just turning the heating up (or cooling down) so<BR>&gt; that they can sit around naked?&nbsp; Saves a *lot* of clothes-<BR>&gt; washing! :-)<BR><BR>We had this thread earlier in the year (or&nbsp; was&nbsp; it&nbsp; last&nbsp; year).<BR>Don't go there.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; One idea was, why not secure the Buttered Cat inside a wheel<BR>&gt; and attatch it to a car - since the cat and the butter will<BR>&gt; both repel the floor, you'd get a perPETual motion machine...<BR><BR>There's two&nbsp; problems&nbsp; with&nbsp; the&nbsp; practical&nbsp; application&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>perPETual motion engine:<BR><BR>1) Perhaps someone who has performed the experiment&nbsp; can&nbsp; confirm<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; but I do not believe you will get sufficient torque to drive a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; car.<BR><BR>2) The cat part of the effect does not apply to dead&nbsp; cats.&nbsp; Spin<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the cat/toast axle too fast and Mr Kitty will loose structural<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; integrity.&nbsp; After that you will experience a complete loss&nbsp; of<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; power until a new cat is installed.&nbsp;&nbsp; This&nbsp; would&nbsp; be&nbsp; both&nbsp; a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; time consuming and a messy procedure.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:52:23 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>Tage Borg writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;I was reading through the CT PSI power rules last night and started<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;thinking about powers in the "other" group. Has anyone compiled a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;list of such powers?<BR>&gt;&gt;I have such a list that I use.<BR>&gt;I'd love to see them. If you have your list in electronic format, please<BR>&gt;send it to TML or to me personally (if posting such things to the list is<BR>&gt;non PC). Or even better, put it on the web!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The whole thing is a bit too long for the TML, but if someone<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; wants to post it on the web I would be happy to cooperate.&nbsp; I<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; can also forward a copy to anyone who e-mails me directly.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The list of categories is:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pyrokinesis (generating heat)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Mental Domination (mind control)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Healing (I kind of like the Empathic Healing someone posted)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Astral Projection (leaving the body)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Xenoport (I like Teleprojection better, I'll have to change this)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Gaussing (manipulating magnetic fields)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Parasitic Senses (seeing through someone else's eyes)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Photographic Memory (I can't remember what this one does...)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Psionic Vampire (steal psionic strength points)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hallucination (induce illusions)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Invisibility (make them ignore you)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Psinull (dampen psi nearby)<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:56:18 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>Jimmy Simpson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;I was reading through the CT PSI power rules last night and started thinking<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;about powers in the "other" group.<BR>&gt;There is an article in Challenge 47 about Special Psionics (written for MT).<BR>&gt;It includes:<BR>&gt;Compression<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; No idea.<BR><BR>&gt;Cryokinesis<BR>&gt;Disruption<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Is this a specialized sort of telekinesis?<BR><BR>&gt;Enhancement<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Like Awareness?<BR><BR>&gt;Hallucination<BR>&gt;Link<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sharing psi strength and/or talents?<BR><BR>&gt;Memory<BR>&gt;Pyrokinesis<BR>&gt;Static<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ?<BR><BR>&gt;Techempathy<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Technology empathy?&nbsp; What about Telechemistry?<BR><BR>&gt;Teleport (Others)<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:05:34 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Special PSI Powers (long)<BR><BR>&gt; I don't remember where I got these from.<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>[...]<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:37:29 +0100<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Antony Farrell [mailto:Skaran@bigpond.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 23 October 2000 15:15<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Volker 'V.A.G'<BR>&gt; &gt; Greimann<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, 23 October 2000 9:39 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; At 10:01 20.10.00 +0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;finally started to recover from the Short Night themselves,<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; BTW: Anybody else thought it peculiar, that the Long Night, <BR>&gt; prompted by a<BR>&gt; &gt; loss of financial stability lasted 700 years, but the Short<BR>&gt; &gt; Night, prompted<BR>&gt; &gt; by the total destruction of the Imperium by a doomsday <BR>&gt; weapon gone wild,<BR>&gt; &gt; which still roams the wilds, only lasted 70 years?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; Actually this would only be true in "pockets" and in the same <BR>&gt; way parts of<BR>&gt; the regions covered by the long night would also have <BR>&gt; recovered faster, some<BR>&gt; regions slower, and some not at all. The only differences <BR>&gt; between the two<BR>&gt; collapses would have been much less devastation during the <BR>&gt; long night as a<BR>&gt; result of weapon use, and no virus during the long night <BR>&gt; hanging around to<BR>&gt; complicate things.<BR>&gt; Antony<BR><BR>Actually, the difference is that the long-night occured basically<BR>because people *wanted* it to happen (or, rather, didn't want it to not<BR>happen...) whereas the 'short' night wasn't the will (or lack thereof)<BR>of the people, but was rather the result of horrendous forces outside<BR>anyones control. Once this dissipated, there were still sufficient<BR>people to *want* to do something about it...<BR><BR>Not that the decline into the long night took several hundred years...<BR>eventually, even the most die-hard Rule-of-Man advocates had given up in<BR>the face of inevitability by the time of the long night proper.<BR><BR>Read J. Trainters "Collapse of complex societies" for insight into how<BR>social collapse occurs, and what happens when it does.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3200<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (rly-yd03.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.3]) by air-yd03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:19:41 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:19:17 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA59139;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:18:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:16:50 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id MAA59088<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:16:50 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:16:50 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010231616.MAA59088@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3200<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3201<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>Re: "The Duelists" (was Re: Princess Bride)<BR>RE: Starport Announcements (was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating&nbsp; (was Re: New FAQ addition))<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: "The Duelists" (was Re: Princess Bride)<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Buttered Cat Dynamos, and Purrpetual Motion machines, among other things<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Re: Buttered Cat Dynamos, and Purrpetual Motion machines, among other things<BR>Re: 2-D TV of 3i<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>On Sun, 22 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; http://www.halcyon.com/elf/<BR>&gt; <BR>I've read about 10 of the stories so far.&nbsp; The writing is really good.<BR><BR>Ken Shardik is kind of annoying, though.<BR><BR>And are we ever going to find out why he got so depressed?<BR><BR>It's a really fascinating universe.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:25:41 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "The Duelists" (was Re: Princess Bride)<BR><BR>I've thought of another "sword fight" that was pretty awesome too. It was in<BR>"Steel Dawn" starring Patrick Swayze. There were several fight scenes in it<BR>that were good....Not a bad movie for Trav scenarios too.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 11:23 PM<BR>Subject: "The Duelists" (was Re: Princess Bride)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On 10/17/00 at 12:03 PM,&nbsp; "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt; said:<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually that whole movie was pretty good and yes the dueling<BR>&gt; &gt;scenes were EXCELLENT. Kind of a *sleeper* movie with Keith<BR>&gt; &gt;Carradine and Harvey Keitel....I really enjoyed it more the second<BR>&gt; &gt;time I watched it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, absolutely!&nbsp; It's the best thing Ridley Scott has ever done, and I<BR>*do* know what else he has directed.&nbsp; Here dueling was presented savage and<BR>brutal "full body combat" not a "gentlemanly sport", a difference in style<BR>among the various movies suggested.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eris<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>&gt; http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:27:09 -0500<BR>From: "Moody, Danny M." &lt;Danny.Moody@bridge.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport Announcements (was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating&nbsp; (was Re: New FAQ addition))<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR><BR>&gt; I trust you've already converted *all* of it to a set of WAV files or<BR>&gt; the like?<BR><BR>Yep.&nbsp; It really freaked out the wife when I decided to take the turntable to<BR>the basement to hook it up to the computer.<BR><BR>&gt; BTW, with uncompressed WAV files and a few other "raw data" format's<BR>&gt; you can create interesting effects simply by reversing the file. That<BR>&gt; is start with the *last* byte (or byte pair, if it's a 16-bit file),<BR>&gt; copy that as the first byte of a new file, and then proceed backwards<BR>&gt; thru the file.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This gives you a time-reversed version of the sound (ie, what you'de<BR>&gt; get by playing the record or tape backwards). This can create some<BR>&gt; interesting "alien languages".<BR><BR>I've relied on my years of working as a radio station engineer to pull off<BR>some really neat stuff for my players.&nbsp; Now that I've got the cd burner up<BR>and running, it's even easier.<BR><BR>There was a set of LPs we had at the station.&nbsp; It was a 12 or so album set<BR>called 'Trendsetters' that was just full of music, effects, etc.&nbsp; It would<BR>be neat to find a set of them from some station that no longer needed them.<BR>of course, the music was from the late seventies, so it would go perfectly<BR>with Traveller. ;-)<BR><BR><BR>vargr1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; UPP-8D9B85<BR>Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmoody@bridge*com<BR>- --------------------------- Molon Labe! ---------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:46:32 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:44:29 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Please don't encourage SF fans to turn up to conventions naked, Doug.<BR>&gt; &gt; Please.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Especially fans with way too out of shape bodies like mine. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Last time I looked, 2/3rds to 3/4th of the fen wearing "skimpy"<BR>&gt; costumes shouldn't have.<BR><BR>I don't know; I find that self-confidence is the most attractive attribute<BR>a person can have.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:51:58 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Craig Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:44:29 PST<BR>&gt; &gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Please don't encourage SF fans to turn up to conventions naked, Doug.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Please.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Especially fans with way too out of shape bodies like mine. <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Last time I looked, 2/3rds to 3/4th of the fen wearing "skimpy"<BR>&gt; &gt; costumes shouldn't have.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't know; I find that self-confidence is the most attractive attribute<BR>&gt; a person can have.<BR>&gt; <BR>Perhaps if we were in the habit of going naked we'd take better care of<BR>our bodies.&nbsp; I know I would.&nbsp; I always do when I'm in a relationship... it<BR>seems to matter more when I know someone else will see it.&nbsp; I worry more<BR>about my clothes and the state of my facial skin (I have acne) when I<BR>DON'T have a regular partner...<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:02:58 -0700<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "The Duelists" (was Re: Princess Bride)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually that whole movie was pretty good and yes the dueling<BR>&gt; &gt;scenes were EXCELLENT. Kind of a *sleeper* movie with Keith<BR>&gt; &gt;Carradine and Harvey Keitel....I really enjoyed it more the second<BR>&gt; &gt;time I watched it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, absolutely!&nbsp; It's the best thing Ridley Scott has ever done, and I<BR>*do* know what else he has directed.&nbsp; Here dueling was presented savage and<BR>brutal "full body combat" not a "gentlemanly sport", a difference in style<BR>among the various movies suggested.<BR>&gt;<BR>Great movie for visuals, but I always liked the short story.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:01:57 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>Charles Collin writes:<BR>&gt;A lot of the suggestions for Special Psi powers have been quite cool.&nbsp; But<BR>&gt;I have a question regarding the various kinetic powers:&nbsp; How have you<BR>&gt;dealt with the problem of being able to affect other peoples' insides?<BR>&gt;For instance, a telekinetic who can apply 1 kg of force to the right spot<BR>&gt;inside someone's brain or heart could kill them.&nbsp; Likewise with a "candle<BR>&gt;flame" or "frosty peice of metal".&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; My approach is to restrict these powers to LOS.&nbsp; In theory you<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; could push on the aorta, but you cannot "get a hold of"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; something that you cannot see.<BR><BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;Another possibility is to limit the powers to touch.&nbsp; You can still do a<BR>&gt;lot of damage with pyrokinetic powers if it's based on touch, but at least<BR>&gt;it's more like a conventional weapon and puts the psionicist in some<BR>&gt;danger.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; One of the Conan stories has a wizard with powers like that.<BR><BR>&gt;Another issue with telekinesis: How do you determine the "dexterity" of<BR>&gt;the telekinetic force?&nbsp; Firing a gun by telekinesis involves lifting and<BR>&gt;steadying the gun (several vectors of force involved there) and then<BR>&gt;pulling the trigger.&nbsp; Is there a penalty to do this relative to, say,<BR>&gt;pushing the gun across the floor? (one vector of force only)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I assume effective Dex = Psi level.<BR><BR>&gt;Oh, and Teleprojection (teleporting others) is just _nasty_.&nbsp; Another<BR>&gt;instant death power if not checked in some way.&nbsp; This is harder to limit<BR>&gt;plausibly, IMO.&nbsp; You can rule that the subject has to be willing, but that<BR>&gt;just "feels" too arbitrary.&nbsp; Maybe if you can only do it with objects.<BR>&gt;But then, can you teleport the object into another being?&nbsp; Yeesh. :-)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I limit "teleporting other" to Psi level in kg, and teleporting into<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; solids is impossible.<BR><BR>&gt;Mind control is also pretty rough, but at least there's a "battle of<BR>&gt;willpowers" to fall back on ("These are not the droids...")<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; There are levels of mind control.&nbsp; You might be able to<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; influence someone's attitude for a few minutes, or have<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; a brief major effect on state of mind...<BR><BR>&gt;One power that no one's brought up so far is "object reading".&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;ability to tell the past of an object or a person associated with an<BR>&gt;object by touching it.&nbsp; A cool but not too torquey power.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thank you!&nbsp; I have often thought of this but never seem to<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; remember it when I am writing stuff down.&nbsp; I'd better make a note of<BR>it right now.<BR><BR>&gt;Anyway, just some rambling thoughts...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It must be that beautiful, clear fall day outside.<BR><BR>:)<BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:12:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:39:24 +0200<BR>&gt; From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; BTW: Anybody else thought it peculiar, that the Long Night, prompted by a <BR>&gt; loss of financial stability lasted 700 years, but the Short Night, prompted <BR>&gt; by the total destruction of the Imperium by a doomsday weapon gone wild, <BR>&gt; which still roams the wilds, only lasted 70 years?<BR><BR>Thank goodness for that "Greenspan" strain of Virus!<BR><BR>But more seriously, I for one have never been able to make sense of the<BR>Long Night.&nbsp; An economic and political vacuum just isn't stable.&nbsp; All it<BR>takes is a scattering of self-sufficient high-tech worlds to keep<BR>interstellar trade going.&nbsp; Imagine the fortunes to be made if your three<BR>nearest trade rivals go out of business due to economic chaos!&nbsp; Trade<BR>dependent worlds would have a few hard years to get through, following<BR>which waves of carpetbaggers would descend on them, selling air plant<BR>replacement parts at whatever the market would bear.&nbsp; Mercantilist pocket<BR>empires would expand rapidly under these conditions.&nbsp; From a few such<BR>seeds, the entire volume of the Second Imperium could easily be humming<BR>along again in 50 years, tops.<BR><BR>So how do we account for almost a millenium of collapse?&nbsp; What were the<BR>high-tech, self-sufficient worlds doing through seven centuries of Night?<BR>Or more to the point, why *weren't* any of them doing seemingly obvious<BR>things?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:33:30 -0500<BR>From: "Shadowcat" &lt;res053z0@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Buttered Cat Dynamos, and Purrpetual Motion machines, among other things<BR><BR>first off wouldnt a cat powered device be a Purrpetual motion <BR>machine.?<BR><BR>and a siege engine used for launching attack cats is a Catapult<BR>or if used for launching ninja kittens, a Kittenapult.<BR><BR>the folks at #callahans and alt.callahans have another term for <BR>spewing liquid involuntarily from ones nose or mouth "Kittening"<BR>which comes from one of our longtime patrons whose well known <BR>for such feats.<BR><BR>as far as the contragrav theory goes, the Aslan Ambassador to <BR>Terra takes great offense at the use of his smaller cousins for <BR>these tests. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:24:16 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>Dalton Spence wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; With all the furor about the top 10 movies that people would want<BR>&gt; the Imperium to know about, nobody (at least as of digest #3191)<BR>&gt; seems to have considered that broadcast and cable TV series vastly<BR>&gt; outweigh theatrical and TV movies in terms of shear video volume.<BR>snip <BR>&gt; What TV programs would you like to see survive the Long Night?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>_most_ of 'em! After all we've backed them up to the cosmos via<BR>broadcast...sure _someone_ out there will take note of our, err,<BR>documentaries... ;-)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:32:31 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Buttered Cat Dynamos, and Purrpetual Motion machines, among other things<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Shadowcat" &lt;res053z0@gte.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Buttered Cat Dynamos, and Purrpetual Motion machines, among other <BR>&gt;things<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:33:30 -0500<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;first off wouldnt a cat powered device be a Purrpetual motion<BR>&gt;machine.?<BR><BR>Funny.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;and a siege engine used for launching attack cats is a Catapult<BR>&gt;or if used for launching ninja kittens, a Kittenapult.<BR><BR>Not so funny.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;as far as the contragrav theory goes, the Aslan Ambassador to<BR>&gt;Terra takes great offense at the use of his smaller cousins for<BR>&gt;these tests.<BR><BR>Aslan aren't cats.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:38:15 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV of 3i<BR><BR>Which TV shows would survive the Long Night? Probably anything B&amp;W and, <BR>given mankind's tendencies toward such things, anything that verged on <BR>pornography. This pretty much includes everything.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:41 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOECEFEAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Down at the local games club, we once played ourselves in a contemporary <BR>horror game called BLOOD! During the course of the campaign (it ran for <BR>about 3 months) I 'died'. Despite this being about 5-6 years ago, every so <BR>often the other participants turn round and tell me that I'm dead and <BR>shouldn't be there :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:45:23 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; Elements lighter than iron can be fused to produce energy (though you<BR>&gt; get less and less as you approach iron). Elements *heavier* than iron<BR>&gt; can be split to produce energy. Iron (specificly Iron-56) is at the<BR>&gt; peak of the curve of binding energy and you can't get energy from it by<BR>&gt; fission *or* fusion.<BR><BR>Well, yes, you can, sort of...you just have to be doing it at the core<BR>of a star. As soon as a star begins to fuse iron, all that mass that was<BR>pushed out by the constant outflow of energy from the core, starts<BR>falling back down.<BR><BR>Eventually it stops falling and bounces, more or less. <BR><BR>The problem is being able to _extract_ the energy from a nova....<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:07:51 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Well, yes, you can, sort of...you just have to be doing it at the core<BR>&gt; of a star. As soon as a star begins to fuse iron, all that mass that was<BR>&gt; pushed out by the constant outflow of energy from the core, starts<BR>&gt; falling back down.<BR><BR>That's not exaxctly getting energy from fusion.&nbsp; That's getting energy from<BR>gravitational collapse.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Eventually it stops falling and bounces, more or less. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The problem is being able to _extract_ the energy from a nova....<BR><BR>You mean supernova, right?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:14:26 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The problem is being able to _extract_ the energy from a nova....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You mean supernova, right?<BR><BR>Yea...I knew that...honest, I really did! ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:14:50 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR>&gt;Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:27:41 PST<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; "Action" and "reaction" are entirely relative in this context.&nbsp; When<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; a rocket engine goes one way and the exhaust goes the other, which<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; is "acting" and which is "reacting?"<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; So then actionless and reactionless could be used interchangebly.<BR>&gt; &gt; Given the choice, I'd choose reactionless.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; But: Are T-Plates *really* actionless/reactionless? GURPS Space <BR>&gt;describes<BR>&gt; &gt; reactionless drive as those which do not push against anything for<BR>&gt; &gt; acceleration. T-Plates "push" against the gravity well of a star, don't<BR>&gt; &gt; they?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Nope. If they did, the faster you were moving relative to the star, the<BR>&gt;more energy it'd take to accelerate a given amount.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Remember, kinetic energy goes as the *square* of the velocity.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So if it took one unit of energy to get from 0 velocity to 1, it'd take<BR>&gt;*3* to get from 1 to 2 (2^2=4, 4-1=3). And so on.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sort of like pushing on the rim of a bike wheel (that's not touching<BR>&gt;the ground. At first, a little push gets it going fairly fast. But<BR>&gt;pretty soon, you can't push it hard/fast enough to speed it up any<BR>&gt;more.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Reaction drives get around this because they are always pushing on<BR>&gt;reaction mass that is *at rest* with respect to the ship. So they are<BR>&gt;always doing the "0 to 1" part.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt;leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get <BR>rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR><BR>Also, what would happen if a ship with T-Plates were to accelerate near a <BR>black-hole? Would it go faster due to the greater gravity well?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:39:54 -0500<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get <BR>&gt;rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR><BR>HEPlaR has it's own reality problems as well, though the problem is in efficiency, not in existance ;)<BR><BR>I have HEPlaR modules for GT on my website (on the Vehicles page, though the Starships for GURPS Traveller link) that are reasonably close in performance to those in TNE.<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocoties.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:12:59 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Why decanonise it?&nbsp; The TNE rulebook itself had quotes from books<BR>&gt;written a century or more after the New Era, talking about the<BR>&gt;Reformation Coalition and Star Vikings as though they were ancient<BR>&gt;history.&nbsp; Just set T5 in that time period if you dislike the TNE<BR>&gt;setting.<BR><BR><BR>Because:<BR><BR>1) Virus has still happened with a total obliteration of Known Space <BR>Cultures as we know them.<BR><BR>and<BR><BR>2) I was responding to a post that asked us what we would like to see <BR>in a modified Traveller - the original stuff was talking about <BR>decanonising (effectively) all of Traveller post 1116. *I* would like <BR>to see the impact on Known Space if the Imperium collapsed a la Hard <BR>Times.<BR><BR>&gt;Assume that the Regency and RC formed an alliance and resettled much<BR>&gt;of the old Imperial territory, but there are lots of political<BR>&gt;tensions on the best way to organise the government (and whether to<BR>&gt;call it an "Imperium" or not);<BR><BR>Nope. The only way I can see this happening is if the Empress Wave <BR>(see below) has catastrophic impact on the Regency. The RC is about <BR>the same technology as the Third Imperium as it was born out of the <BR>Sylean Federation. The Regency is a TL17 society if allowed to <BR>progress. The Regency has massively better weaponry, industrial base, <BR>power supplies, population and abilities compared to the RC. A big <BR>ship for the RC is something like a modular cutter, which I seem to <BR>recall is smaller than a Fleet Escort for the Regency. If they <BR>encounter each other, the Regency is more likely to absorb the RC <BR>than form an alliance. At best, the RC would be a client state.<BR><BR>&gt;Virus is beaten and forgotten about,<BR>&gt;except that there are now a few self-aware AIs around (and, maybe,<BR>&gt;something really nasty and strange in the old Core sector).<BR><BR>How can you forget about something that has caused 10 *trillion* <BR>deaths only 200 years before? Something that was still a hazard in <BR>1200? Something that destroyed everything in society? The hundreds of <BR>dead worlds are a stark reminder of the impact of Virus.<BR><BR>&gt;When the<BR>&gt;Empress Wave arrived everybody just waved back then carried on with<BR>&gt;their lives.<BR><BR>In which case the Regency absorbs, annexes or 'client states' the RC. <BR>The only way you get anything near an alliance is if the Empress Wave <BR>harms the Regency.<BR><BR><BR>&lt;VAMPIRE FLEETS SPOILER&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Even if the intelligent virus recovered (IIRC) in Vampire Fleets is <BR>accepted by the RC, it isn't likely to be easily accepted by the <BR>Regency (admittedly, they have been studying Virus). It's not going <BR>to make a real difference to the industrial capacity of the RC, or <BR>its power projection abilities.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;The other powers (Solomani, Aslan, K'Kree, etc) have<BR>&gt;finally started to recover from the Short Night themselves, but there<BR>&gt;are still huge areas of space on the borders between each power which<BR>&gt;are unexplored, uncontacted, and full of pocket empires and lost<BR>&gt;worlds.&nbsp; It could be a great period for a campaign, without any of the<BR>&gt;restrictions of having to fit into a pre-set history.<BR><BR>There are no other real powers in Known Space that survived the <BR>release except for those Behind the Claw. There are races, and maybe <BR>the odd Pocket Empire. Terra is probably trashed (one of the highest <BR>population and technology worlds). The Hierate was swept by Virus.<BR><BR>I can see where you are coming from with this, but you may as well <BR>throw away the whole background if it is going like this. Which I <BR>don't want to see. If we were to rewrite Traveller now, I'm sure we'd <BR>change some effects/history (I'd add Hamilton style Voidhawks and <BR>Bitek, plus better computers etc). But I don't believe that the <BR>Traveller universe could realistically get to the state you describe <BR>from Virus. Better to abandon it than just bolt on more hand waving.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------<BR>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion<BR>that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.<BR>You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -<BR>'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's<BR>MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:42:41 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote: <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get <BR>&gt;rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR><BR>Jeez, that's almost like suggesting we use D20 for task resoultions...<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:43:56 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Brandon Cope writes:<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get <BR>&gt; &gt;rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; HEPlaR has it's own reality problems as well, though the problem is in<BR>&gt; efficiency, not in existance ;) <BR><BR>Well, it also has problems related to exhaust vaporizing cities.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3201<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:45:55 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:45:11 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA72739;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:44:07 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:44:02 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA72695<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:44:02 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:44:02 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010231844.OAA72695@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3201<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3202<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: What Happened to Traveller On-line?<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>test again<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Law of Unintended Consequences (was Question about canon technology)<BR>Re: Special PSI Powers (and the Law of Unintended Uses)<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Sarid<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:50:44<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Happened to Traveller On-line?<BR><BR>At 10:33 PM 10/22/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Well, what happened? It had a very promising start. It was a great way to<BR>&gt;decompress for a few minutes at work. Just like NetHack 3.3.1, which was<BR>&gt;recently released.<BR><BR>Aha!&nbsp; Another addict!&nbsp; Nethack is one of the few things that kept me sane<BR>during my last bout of disability!<BR><BR>Doug-W, killed by brainlessness...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:49:55 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Yeah, anything other than 2d6 for Traveller would be mad.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Monday, October 23, 2000, at 07:42 PM, trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; James Jensen wrote:&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;rid of them and use HEPlaR? <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Jeez, that's almost like suggesting we use D20 for task resoultions... <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:58:51 -0700<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>&gt;I'm reminded of a city which was described in a novel by Terry Carr<BR>&gt;I read ~ 15 years ago.&nbsp; There was a city build inside a huge<BR>&gt;(several kilometer in diameter) lightweight hollow sphere.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;sphere was painted black on top and functioned as a giant hot air<BR>&gt;balloon.&nbsp; IIRC it had a population of several 10s of thousands and<BR>&gt;was normally neutrally buoyant (if desired it could also go up or<BR>&gt;down by changing color or venting hot air.&nbsp; Cool idea for a TL 7 or 8<BR>&gt;world.&nbsp; Btw, anyone know the name of the book this was in, I've<BR>&gt;long ago forgotten it.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I can't help you with the Terry Carr book, but it sounds like <BR>Buckminster Fuller's Cloud Nine proposal. There are lots of Bucky <BR>fans, so searches on Buckminster Fuller and Cloud Nine should get <BR>some results. There is a very brief mention of it in "Bucky Works: <BR>Buckminster Fuller's Ideas for Today" by J. Baldwin from John Wiley <BR>and Sons, Inc. I've included the entire text below.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------<BR>Cloud Nine is probably possible, but even Bucky didn't expect to see <BR>one soon. He offered it as a jarring exercise, intended to stimulate <BR>the imaginative thinking we're going to need if the billions of new <BR>Earth citizens predicted to arrive soon are to have decent housing.<BR><BR>Like floating and underwater cities, this fantastic proposal avoided <BR>the economic and environmental costs of using land for housing. Bucky <BR>envisioned buoyant, "Cloud Nine" tensegrity spheres a mile (1.6 km) <BR>or more in diameter sheltering autonomous communities of several <BR>thousand people.<BR><BR>What would keep them airborne? A straightforward surface-to-volume <BR>calculation shows that the structural weight of a half-mile (0.8 km) <BR>diameter sphere would be one-thousandth of the weight of the air <BR>inside. When trapped solar energy and human activity heated the air <BR>inside host one degree above the surrounding air temperature, even an <BR>unskinned sphere would float like a huge hot air balloon. A skinned, <BR>one-mile (1.6 km) diameter sphere could easily support itself and <BR>several thousand people and their goods, day or night.<BR><BR>Cloud Nines could be anchored to mountaintops, with inhabitants <BR>traveling [sic] to the ground or other Cloud Nines by <BR>photovoltaically [sic] powered aircraft based on the work of Dr. Paul <BR>MacReady. The sky cities could also be permitted to drift at a <BR>preferred altitude, enabling their populations to see the world, or <BR>even to migrate like birds.<BR><BR>Becky expected Cloud Nines would appear far in the future as one <BR>component of the hardware that would enable humans to "converge and <BR>deploy around Earth without its depletion."<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:54:17 -0400<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: test again<BR><BR>Sorry, just testing...<BR><BR>- --<BR>Ethan Henry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ethan.henry@sitraka.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:56:57 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 12:16 -0400 23/10/00, "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;BTW: Anybody else thought it peculiar, that the Long Night, prompted by a<BR>&gt;loss of financial stability lasted 700 years, but the Short Night, prompted<BR>&gt;by the total destruction of the Imperium by a doomsday weapon gone wild,<BR>&gt;which still roams the wilds, only lasted 70 years?<BR><BR>'Watch Volker open the can of worms, children'.<BR><BR>Dom ;-)<BR><BR>- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------<BR>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion<BR>that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.<BR>You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -<BR>'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's<BR>MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:05:45 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:14:50 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get <BR>&gt; rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR><BR>TNE looked at that question and did precisely that.&nbsp; But using a (semi-) <BR>realistic thrust model makes the 'feel' of space travel very, very<BR>different from what Traveller players are used to, and indeed from how<BR>space travel is portrayed in most far-future science fiction.&nbsp; Rather than<BR>just saying "We head out to Zargospax VII" and calculating an accelerate-<BR>flip-decelerate flight time, you have to carefully manage the day or so of<BR>thrust you have available.&nbsp; In-system jumps become a much more attractive<BR>option in many circumstances.&nbsp; Also, as others have pointed out, landing<BR>near a populated area with a drive that emits relativistic plasma isn't<BR>going to make you many friends, as opposed to t-plate technology which<BR>lets you land in a parking lot if the need arises.<BR><BR>T-plates are a lot like Trek's transporter; it's a (barely) acceptable bit<BR>of physics-violating magic, introduced to get the right feel, and to move<BR>the plot along.&nbsp; Jump drive is of course in precisely this category as<BR>well.<BR><BR>&gt; Also, what would happen if a ship with T-Plates were to accelerate near a <BR>&gt; black-hole? Would it go faster due to the greater gravity well?<BR><BR>Note that at any given distance from a black hole, the gravity well is the<BR>same as for any spherically symmetric object of the same mass (provided<BR>you're outside the latter).&nbsp; Black holes don't have magical grav<BR>properties.&nbsp; But also note that canon doesn't have available thrust<BR>depending on local gravitational properties, other than some variants<BR>which have t-plates abruptly not working below some threshhold.&nbsp; Again,<BR>doing it your way would be interesting, but would also involve a lot more<BR>work in calculating ship movement.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:32:43 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; So said FF&amp;S.&nbsp; The problem is, that "pushing" against the g-well of a star<BR>&gt; is effectively saying you're pushing against the star itself.&nbsp; This<BR>&gt; satisfies conservation of momentum nicely; alas, it does not satisfy<BR>&gt; conservation of energy.&nbsp; If it did, it would cost exponentially more<BR>&gt; energy to accelerate as your velocity relative to the star increased.<BR>&gt; This would neatly solve the "killer lifeboat" problem, but would also<BR>&gt; introduce some nasty math in place of the currently simple t-plate<BR>&gt; maneuver rules.&nbsp; And in fact, the resulting performance would act enough<BR>&gt; like a traditional reaction drive that you might as well just use HEPlaR<BR>&gt; instead.<BR><BR>Actually, we worked out the math here on the list once, and it's far<BR>*worse* than reaction drive performance, except for very low relative<BR>velocities. <BR><BR>It might be useful for ground to orbit craft.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:37:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In a message dated 10/22/00 1:55:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>&gt; alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; It sounds like the TML converted into a game setting.&nbsp; Oh dear. &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now THERE'S a concept...:-). Sounds like an old friend of mine who in a fit <BR>&gt; of wierdness one weekend announced that we are now running an Aftermath <BR>&gt; session with ourselves as our own characters two weeks after the Steven <BR>&gt; Kingesque superplague (gee how convient; we're all immunes...:-)). He made <BR>&gt; us <BR>&gt; inventory our pockets and our personal posessions and that's all the <BR>&gt; equipment we could start with. I felt lucky; I had my Swiss Army knife on my <BR>&gt; belt. Needless to say the first thing we did was look for a sporting goods <BR>&gt; store...:-).<BR><BR>Gee, he'd hate me. I already have a nice *rugged* rifle, and 1000<BR>rounds of ammo. :-)<BR><BR>A couple of "super-plague" stories that pre-date Stephen King by quite<BR>a bit...<BR><BR>"Earth Abides" by George ???? (Stewart?).<BR>It's been years since I read it, but as I recall, the number of<BR>survivors was *far* lower than in King's stuff. Something on the order<BR>of 1 in a million...<BR><BR>Also, a short story by John Dalmas printed in Analog in the 1960s. It's<BR>a sort of "prequel" to his Yngling stories.<BR><BR>An interesting feature of that last one (unless I'm confusing it with<BR>something else) was that many of the infected developed a sort of<BR>pyromania... which led to there not being a lot of books that survived...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:47:10 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; to reintegrate the timeline!<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Ye ghods, that's twisted. Any change you'll run it, and make <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; it a pbem? :)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Ha, I'd need to give up my day job to make time to fit it in with<BR>&gt;&gt; all my other projects.&nbsp; Do you want a crack at running&nbsp; it&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>&gt;&gt; pbem?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, I have just shut down my Spinward Marches all-newbie campaign (only my<BR>&gt; girlfriend posted, and she's gone back to medical school now and hasn't the<BR>&gt; time). I'm game. Anyone interested? Mil off-list please. I'll need a little<BR>&gt; time to create some rubber physics and a plausible time machine but...yeah.<BR><BR>All you really need is an improved reactionless drive. Jump drives plus<BR>easily reached near c velocities gives time travel...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:50:26 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Galactica 80 is non-canon. :-)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Except for the episode "The Return of Starbuck" (minus the <BR>&gt;&gt; framing story).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As I heard it this story was originally conceived&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; way&nbsp; of<BR>&gt; 'exiting' the Starbuck character out of the&nbsp; original&nbsp; series&nbsp; if<BR>&gt; the actor (Dirk Benedict) ever decided to leave.&nbsp; This turned out<BR>&gt; to be unnecessary and the story was expanded for Galactica 80 ...<BR>&gt; with the framing story AND with the&nbsp; woman&nbsp; on&nbsp; the&nbsp; planet&nbsp; with<BR>&gt; Starbuck.&nbsp; Thus this story has since been released in&nbsp; a&nbsp; cutdown<BR>&gt; form as part of the original series and in the expanded&nbsp; form&nbsp; in<BR>&gt; Galactica 80.&nbsp; IMHO even though I loath Galactica 80 the expanded<BR>&gt; form is the better of the two.<BR><BR>I alway loved the lines they gave "Cy", the Cylon Starbuck rebuilt. <BR>Especially when he inadvertently explained *why* Cylon piloting is so<BR>bad...<BR><BR>"We were taking a vote on what to do when the planet came up and hit<BR>us."<BR><BR>Yep, piloting by committee!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:57:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Law of Unintended Consequences (was Question about canon technology)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; My best Traveller-related story about the LoUC has to do with the<BR>&gt; Broadsword Adventure.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Seems the guys I refereed for this game realized that 30 men, no matter<BR>&gt; how well armed, and equipped with two thin-skinned ATVs weren't going<BR>&gt; to make a raindrop's impression on the enemy, and decided that those<BR>&gt; two cutters weren't along just for the looks.&nbsp; I made the mistake of<BR>&gt; allowing them to pick the four modules their cutters would carry.=20<BR>&gt; Needless to say, two of them were weapons packs.<BR><BR>Sounds like the goof the DM made in a D&amp;D campaign I was in. He'd<BR>decided that gunpowder would work, but had a sort of "critical ,ass".<BR>Anything less than a kilo or so just fizzled away. <BR><BR>We proceeded to make "pipe bombs" a standard item in our equipment<BR>loads. And for wildreness adventures, we used wagon-mounted ballistas<BR>with hollow metal projectiles stuffed with gunpowder.<BR><BR>He realized just how *big* a mistake he'd made when the ballistas got a<BR>couple of direct hits on a red dragon...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:03:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Special PSI Powers (and the Law of Unintended Uses)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; A lot of the suggestions for Special Psi powers have been quite cool.&nbsp; But<BR>&gt; I have a question regarding the various kinetic powers:&nbsp; How have you<BR>&gt; dealt with the problem of being able to affect other peoples' insides?<BR>&gt; For instance, a telekinetic who can apply 1 kg of force to the right spot<BR>&gt; inside someone's brain or heart could kill them.&nbsp; Likewise with a "candle<BR>&gt; flame" or "frosty peice of metal".&nbsp; <BR><BR>The simplest answer is that he can do it, but only if he *also* has the<BR>psi senses required to see inside the body well enough to apply the<BR>force in the right place. <BR><BR>Another possibility is that he can't apply the force *inside* a "solid"<BR>object. <BR><BR>That means he can still yank wires inside that bomb (though, again, he<BR>needs psi senses to see the wires), but he can't do much to the heart...<BR><BR>&gt; Another issue with telekinesis: How do you determine the "dexterity" of<BR>&gt; the telekinetic force?&nbsp; Firing a gun by telekinesis involves lifting and<BR>&gt; steadying the gun (several vectors of force involved there) and then<BR>&gt; pulling the trigger.&nbsp; Is there a penalty to do this relative to, say,<BR>&gt; pushing the gun across the floor? (one vector of force only)<BR><BR>Also, if it's a projectile weapon, recoil is going to start it spinning<BR>as well as moving backwards!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:11:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>Beginning to sound a bit like that Futurama episode where the aliens<BR>were PO'd when the season finale of "McNeal" (an Ally McBeal takeoff)<BR>was knocked off the air, so they travelled to Earth (threatening it<BR>with their Monument-destroying Rays) to determine what happened.<BR><BR>- --- Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; Dalton Spence wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; With all the furor about the top 10 movies that people would want<BR>&gt; &gt; the Imperium to know about, nobody (at least as of digest #3191)<BR>&gt; &gt; seems to have considered that broadcast and cable TV series vastly<BR>&gt; &gt; outweigh theatrical and TV movies in terms of shear video volume.<BR>&gt; snip <BR>&gt; &gt; What TV programs would you like to see survive the Long Night?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; _most_ of 'em! After all we've backed them up to the cosmos via<BR>&gt; broadcast...sure _someone_ out there will take note of our, err,<BR>&gt; documentaries... ;-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; University of Arizona<BR>&gt; College of Pharmacy<BR>&gt; Information Technology Group<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:31:14 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Sarid<BR><BR>I was looking over the Rebellion sourcebook, page 26, and it gives the same<BR>fleet to Sarid and Nicosia subsectors in the Old Expanses. Is it one fleet<BR>spread across two subsectors, or a typo?<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:46:01 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Actually, we worked out the math here on the list once, and it's far<BR>&gt; *worse* than reaction drive performance, except for very low relative<BR>&gt; velocities. <BR><BR>Depends on what you mean by 'worse'.&nbsp; At typical orbital speed for a star,<BR>it's around 40 MW/kN, though that depends on direction -- it could be lower,<BR>or even negative.<BR><BR>You actually can do this without nasty math, though.&nbsp; It just requires assuming<BR>that a T-plate is actually a superefficient energy storage device.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:09:02 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; In a message dated 10/22/00 1:55:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>&gt; &gt; alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; He made<BR>&gt; &gt; us<BR>&gt; &gt; inventory our pockets and our personal posessions and that's all the<BR>&gt; &gt; equipment we could start with. I felt lucky; I had my Swiss Army knife on my<BR>&gt; &gt; belt. Needless to say the first thing we did was look for a sporting goods<BR>&gt; &gt; store...:-).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Gee, he'd hate me. I already have a nice *rugged* rifle, and 1000<BR>&gt; rounds of ammo. :-)<BR><BR>You carry your rifle and a thousand rounds of ammo to gaming sessions<BR>with you???<BR><BR>Wow, you live in a rougher neighborhood than I imagined ;-) The<BR>deadliest weapon I've ever brought to one was a crockpot.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:09:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; One idea was, why not secure the Buttered Cat inside a wheel<BR>&gt;&gt; and attatch it to a car - since the cat and the butter will<BR>&gt;&gt; both repel the floor, you'd get a perPETual motion machine...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There's two&nbsp; problems&nbsp; with&nbsp; the&nbsp; practical&nbsp; application&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; perPETual motion engine:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1) Perhaps someone who has performed the experiment&nbsp; can&nbsp; confirm<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; but I do not believe you will get sufficient torque to drive a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; car.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2) The cat part of the effect does not apply to dead&nbsp; cats.&nbsp; Spin<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; the cat/toast axle too fast and Mr Kitty will loose structural<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; integrity.&nbsp; After that you will experience a complete loss&nbsp; of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; power until a new cat is installed.&nbsp;&nbsp; This&nbsp; would&nbsp; be&nbsp; both&nbsp; a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; time consuming and a messy procedure.<BR><BR>You've overlooked the Schrodinger's Cat effect. Until you actually<BR>look, the cat is both dead and alive, so the lift you get is an average<BR>of the dead/alive lift adjusted by the relative probabilities of each<BR>state... <BR><BR>(I can't believe I just wrote that... Is there a "Gearheads Anonymous"<BR>chapter around here?)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:24:33 -0400<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 01:09 PM 10/23/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; In a message dated 10/22/00 1:55:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; He made<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; us<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; inventory our pockets and our personal posessions and that's all the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; equipment we could start with. I felt lucky; I had my Swiss Army <BR>&gt; knife on my<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; belt. Needless to say the first thing we did was look for a sporting <BR>&gt; goods<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; store...:-).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Gee, he'd hate me. I already have a nice *rugged* rifle, and 1000<BR>&gt; &gt; rounds of ammo. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You carry your rifle and a thousand rounds of ammo to gaming sessions<BR>&gt;with you???<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Wow, you live in a rougher neighborhood than I imagined ;-) The<BR>&gt;deadliest weapon I've ever brought to one was a crockpot.<BR><BR>A few years ago, several years after PA had passed its "Shall Issue" CCW <BR>law, I was gaming at a friends house when we heard a window shatter <BR>upstairs (we were in the basement).&nbsp; It was like a scene out of a movie, <BR>all but one of us reached for our sidearms.&nbsp; It turned out that a storm had <BR>blown up and knocked a branch loose and into the window.&nbsp; But damn, were we <BR>ever prepared for that tree limb!<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:32:16 GMT<BR>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:12:59 +0100<BR>&gt;From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;1) Virus has still happened with a total obliteration of Known Space <BR>&gt;Cultures as we know them.<BR><BR>TNE emphasises the "downfall of society" theme to create atmosphere,<BR>but we know there are still plenty of pocket empires out there.&nbsp; These<BR>will certainly retain many elements of Imperial culture - even if, as<BR>in the case of the RC, they have tried to change certain aspects of<BR>it.&nbsp; How many more Covenants of Suffren lurk out there in the Wilds,<BR>ready to be recontacted?<BR><BR>&gt; the Regency is more likely to absorb the RC <BR>&gt;than form an alliance. At best, the RC would be a client state.<BR><BR>Actually, I think you're right based on the facts as presented in TNE,<BR>although the implication of the fluff text is that the RC was an equal<BR>partner in the "New Republic", or whatever they call it...&nbsp; <BR><BR>The best explanation I can find is that the Regency will remain<BR>largely isolationist and inward-looking for a while longer, while the<BR>RC links up with many more states like Suffren and forges them into a<BR>federation, gradually spreading out across the former Imperium.&nbsp; Once<BR>contact is made, the Regency still has the wealth and high tech but<BR>the Coalition has acquired the numbers and resources, and more<BR>importantly retains more drive and initiative.<BR><BR>I wonder if GDW had plans worked out for how this would happen?&nbsp; The<BR>last page of Virus Fleets seems to suggest they were thinking in that<BR>direction, at least.<BR><BR>&gt;How can you forget about something that has caused 10 *trillion* <BR>&gt;deaths only 200 years before? Something that was still a hazard in <BR>&gt;1200? Something that destroyed everything in society? The hundreds of <BR>&gt;dead worlds are a stark reminder of the impact of Virus.<BR><BR>No, they're a great opportunity for recolonisation on pre-terraformed<BR>worlds.&nbsp; The Black Death killed one in three people in Europe, and its<BR>most lasting effect was a rise in personal wealth for ordinary people,<BR>as there were fewer people to share the same amout of land and jobs...<BR><BR>&gt;There are no other real powers in Known Space that survived the <BR>&gt;release except for those Behind the Claw. <BR><BR>But that doesn't mean they're doomed to millennia of barbarism.&nbsp; While<BR>the Regency and Zhodani hid from Virus, the Hivers defeated it; and<BR>there are hints that the Vargr may sooner or later do the same.&nbsp; No<BR>reason to suppose that the Aslan and Solomani may not eventually also<BR>recover, even if they don't get outside help.&nbsp; After all, Virus itself<BR>is evolving and becoming less of a threat.<BR><BR>&gt;I can see where you are coming from with this, but you may as well <BR>&gt;throw away the whole background if it is going like this. <BR><BR>The basic rules of the Traveller setting aren't going to go away, and<BR>so any society that develops post-Virus can't be that dissimilar to<BR>what went before.&nbsp; They'll still need x-boats, scout/couriers, free<BR>traders... (and Suliemans, Empress Maravas, etc will still be in<BR>production);&nbsp; the government will still be unable to impose direct<BR>control on remote planets and so will need to rely on the people on<BR>the spot to solve problems, often through unofficial channels.&nbsp; People<BR>trying to rebuild civilisation are as likely to cling to the old ways<BR>of doing things as they are to consciously reject them.<BR><BR>&gt;But I don't believe that the <BR>&gt;Traveller universe could realistically get to the state you describe <BR>&gt;from Virus. Better to abandon it than just bolt on more hand waving.<BR><BR>In that case, personally, I'd be more interested in working out what a<BR>realistic picture of the post-Virus era should look like.&nbsp; And I<BR>suspect it would *not* be an apocalyptic vision of thousands of worlds<BR>where stone-age savages huddled around campfires in the shells of<BR>bombed-out buildings...<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:40:42 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Because:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1) Virus has still happened with a total obliteration of Known Space<BR>&gt; Cultures as we know them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; While it is true that Virus seriously disrupted the established<BR>cultures, (Being a TNE fan myself, I still feel this is the most serious<BR>loss to the game. I love CT too.) there are a few mitigating circumstances.<BR>First, the Spinward Marches remain pretty much the same, minus a little<BR>power shift here and there. Second, as I have posted earlier, Virus allows<BR>the Regency to exist simply because it solves all of the problems faced by<BR>Deneb during the Rebellion. Third, MT was already disintergrating 3I at an<BR>alarming rate.&nbsp; With the kind of war described in MT, Imperial culture was<BR>dying anyway.<BR><BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2) I was responding to a post that asked us what we would like to see<BR>&gt; in a modified Traveller - the original stuff was talking about<BR>&gt; decanonising (effectively) all of Traveller post 1116. *I* would like<BR>&gt; to see the impact on Known Space if the Imperium collapsed a la Hard<BR>&gt; Times.<BR>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, for one that seems kind of pointless. I mean, it has been done<BR>before. How many Imperia will we have collapse under its own weight before<BR>moving in a new direction. Now, I understand that real societies most often<BR>crumble from within, which I feel TNE preserves nicely. Essentially, Virus<BR>shows the extremes to which several of the factions were willing to go to<BR>win the war. However, when one side or the other is willing to design and<BR>later deploy such a weapon, it simply shows that they no longer believe in<BR>the Imperium as it was (and should be). Releasing Virus would be like the US<BR>nuking Georgia. Only if you have already accepted that your opponents are<BR>not your countrymen can you use such a draconian weapon. And MT clearly<BR>showed that events had deteriorated that far.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Assume that the Regency and RC formed an alliance and resettled much<BR>&gt; &gt;of the old Imperial territory, but there are lots of political<BR>&gt; &gt;tensions on the best way to organise the government (and whether to<BR>&gt; &gt;call it an "Imperium" or not);<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nope. The only way I can see this happening is if the Empress Wave<BR>&gt; (see below) has catastrophic impact on the Regency. The RC is about<BR>&gt; the same technology as the Third Imperium as it was born out of the<BR>&gt; Sylean Federation. The Regency is a TL17 society if allowed to<BR>&gt; progress. The Regency has massively better weaponry, industrial base,<BR>&gt; power supplies, population and abilities compared to the RC. A big<BR>&gt; ship for the RC is something like a modular cutter, which I seem to<BR>&gt; recall is smaller than a Fleet Escort for the Regency. If they<BR>&gt; encounter each other, the Regency is more likely to absorb the RC<BR>&gt; than form an alliance. At best, the RC would be a client state.<BR><BR>I agree that the Regency would never treat the RC as a partner. IMTU, the<BR>Regency will become another Imperium (or reestablish the old one), and begin<BR>a crusade similiar to the Pacification Campaigns. However, this would<BR>understandably take many years, as the Quarantine will not even be lifted<BR>until the Regency citizens feel safe. This allows the RC (With significant<BR>Hiver help) to expand corward. When they meet, who knows how it will turn<BR>out.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Virus is beaten and forgotten about,<BR>&gt; &gt;except that there are now a few self-aware AIs around (and, maybe,<BR>&gt; &gt;something really nasty and strange in the old Core sector).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How can you forget about something that has caused 10 *trillion*<BR>&gt; deaths only 200 years before? Something that was still a hazard in<BR>&gt; 1200? Something that destroyed everything in society? The hundreds of<BR>&gt; dead worlds are a stark reminder of the impact of Virus.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I agree with you here again. Virus would not be forgotten, which is what<BR>makes the TNE future better then simply continuing from the 1116 date.<BR>Virus was the cost of war, and the price for ignoring the Imperial social<BR>contract. Traveller conflicts are marked with a lack of consequence, simply<BR>because of their size, and the Imperium's overwhelming strength.&nbsp; There<BR>simply are no long lasting horrors from any other Traveller conflict.&nbsp; A<BR>restored Imperium would be a better Imperium, simply due to the trials of<BR>Virus.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;When the<BR>&gt; &gt;Empress Wave arrived everybody just waved back then carried on with<BR>&gt; &gt;their lives.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In which case the Regency absorbs, annexes or 'client states' the RC.<BR>&gt; The only way you get anything near an alliance is if the Empress Wave<BR>&gt; harms the Regency.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;VAMPIRE FLEETS SPOILER&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Even if the intelligent virus recovered (IIRC) in Vampire Fleets is<BR>&gt; accepted by the RC, it isn't likely to be easily accepted by the<BR>&gt; Regency (admittedly, they have been studying Virus). It's not going<BR>&gt; to make a real difference to the industrial capacity of the RC, or<BR>&gt; its power projection abilities.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; True. Still, it shows a possibility for later artificial citizens in<BR>whatever interstellar societies exist. Furthermore, Vampire Rogues could<BR>then become a future issue.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The other powers (Solomani, Aslan, K'Kree, etc) have<BR>&gt; &gt;finally started to recover from the Short Night themselves, but there<BR>&gt; &gt;are still huge areas of space on the borders between each power which<BR>&gt; &gt;are unexplored, uncontacted, and full of pocket empires and lost<BR>&gt; &gt;worlds.&nbsp; It could be a great period for a campaign, without any of the<BR>&gt; &gt;restrictions of having to fit into a pre-set history.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There are no other real powers in Known Space that survived the<BR>&gt; release except for those Behind the Claw. There are races, and maybe<BR>&gt; the odd Pocket Empire. Terra is probably trashed (one of the highest<BR>&gt; population and technology worlds). The Hierate was swept by Virus.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Hiver Federation survived relatively intact, and we all know they<BR>love to meddle. Besides, recovery fuels further recovery. As it stands in<BR>TNE, building a new tech base is not the best way to increase TL. Instead,<BR>going out and finding it is much easier. As the core worlds of any pocket<BR>empire (or the RC) rises in TL, then the recovered goods will go to the<BR>worlds in the next "layer" of their sphere of influence, as the core worlds<BR>are now capable of production. It has already happened in the RC. They are<BR>already constructing new ships.&nbsp; Once they reach a sector in size, they<BR>should have a credible fleet unit. (This is simply because the Vampires<BR>still control line ships, so if the RC survives to that size, then it seems<BR>reasonable to assume they have enough assests to defend themselves.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I can see where you are coming from with this, but you may as well<BR>&gt; throw away the whole background if it is going like this. Which I<BR>&gt; don't want to see. If we were to rewrite Traveller now, I'm sure we'd<BR>&gt; change some effects/history (I'd add Hamilton style Voidhawks and<BR>&gt; Bitek, plus better computers etc). But I don't believe that the<BR>&gt; Traveller universe could realistically get to the state you describe<BR>&gt; from Virus. Better to abandon it than just bolt on more hand waving.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I would like to think TNE could contribute to the future of Traveller. I<BR>feel its products are amongst the best produced (content subject aside)<BR>Traveller products ever. Although it destroyed much of value (Which, again,<BR>I myself lament), I do not believe it necessarily ends any further<BR>developement.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3202<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3203</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>10/23/00 3:22:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3203<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>clothing optional<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution*<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: Special PSI Powers (long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Update: "other" PSI powers on the web (TM)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Special Psi powers<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:54:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>Somebody ought to write a Papa Schimmelhorn-esqe story with Cat CG as<BR>its theme.<BR><BR>- --- Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; One idea was, why not secure the Buttered Cat inside a wheel<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; and attatch it to a car - since the cat and the butter will<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; both repel the floor, you'd get a perPETual motion machine...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; There's two&nbsp; problems&nbsp; with&nbsp; the&nbsp; practical&nbsp; application&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; perPETual motion engine:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 1) Perhaps someone who has performed the experiment&nbsp; can&nbsp; confirm<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; but I do not believe you will get sufficient torque to drive a<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; car.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 2) The cat part of the effect does not apply to dead&nbsp; cats.&nbsp; Spin<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; the cat/toast axle too fast and Mr Kitty will loose structural<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; integrity.&nbsp; After that you will experience a complete loss&nbsp; of<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; power until a new cat is installed.&nbsp;&nbsp; This&nbsp; would&nbsp; be&nbsp; both&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; time consuming and a messy procedure.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You've overlooked the Schrodinger's Cat effect. Until you actually<BR>&gt; look, the cat is both dead and alive, so the lift you get is an<BR>&gt; average<BR>&gt; of the dead/alive lift adjusted by the relative probabilities of each<BR>&gt; state... <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (I can't believe I just wrote that... Is there a "Gearheads<BR>&gt; Anonymous"<BR>&gt; chapter around here?)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:09:53 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: clothing optional<BR><BR>Leonard puts out on the Ether:<BR>&gt;Stealing an idea from an old SF story...<BR>&gt;A planet that's not merely "clothing optional" but has gone all the way<BR>&gt;to "clothing is *only* worn when protection is needed".<BR>&gt;Rank markings and the like are painted on with body paint, or something<BR>&gt;like henna.<BR><BR>Hmm...Sounds like "Number of the Beast" by Heinlen.&nbsp; The two twins wear <BR>painted rank markings, which also serve to tell them apart.<BR><BR>&gt;Have the PCs need to take passage and there's only one ship in port. A<BR>&gt;ship with a crew from that planet. They wear the legal minimum while<BR>&gt;off ship (tough they may weare cloaks for protection against the<BR>&gt;weather).<BR>&gt;But once on ship, the crew is nude. They don't insist on the passengers<BR>&gt;following suit. Still, I can see some PCs being a bit disconcerted at<BR>&gt;being shown to their cabin by a Steward wearing sandals, a smile, and a<BR>&gt;bit of paint...<BR><BR>If I recall correctly, the ships environment settings made walking around <BR>in skin comfortable.<BR>Too much clothing made a health hazard.<BR><BR>&gt;Extra points: Play a PC from such a planet.<BR><BR>You would wish a Long family member on a poor GM?<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>It was blasphemous, it was sacrilegious, and it was a little bit too much fun.<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:16:18 -0700<BR>From: "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>On Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:13 PM<BR>Craig Berry said,<BR><BR>&gt; Yes, if you also allow for the weight of the balloon material.&nbsp; But<BR>it's<BR>&gt; far easier (and more useful) to use pure helium, and then add payload,<BR>&gt; structure, and ballast mass until you achieve neutral buoyancy.<BR><BR>I was wondering, given a rigid envelope of sufficient strength and such,<BR>wouldn't a large envelope of vacuum be more effective than any lifting<BR>glass.&nbsp; It should bring the overall density of the whole rig to the<BR>lowest possible value (without using degenerate forms of matter).<BR><BR>G.D.D.<BR>Thing under the stairs,<BR>Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>===========================<BR>"Women and cats will do as they please.&nbsp; And men and dogs should relax<BR>and get used to the idea." -Robert Heinlein<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:18:03 +0100<BR>From: "owen_hughes" &lt;owen_hughes@ntlworld.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Pete wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization<BR>&gt; &gt; of time travellers will exist with a vested interest in<BR>&gt; &gt; de-integrating the time line. Or at least integrating to a<BR>&gt; &gt; different time line than the PC organization. There could<BR>&gt; &gt; conceivably be a number of different groups each intent on<BR>&gt; &gt; preserving a different version of reality.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Right.&nbsp; Sounds like a Traveller/TimeMaster crossover.&nbsp; You&nbsp; could<BR>&gt; have missions all over the 3I's history (and even&nbsp; before),&nbsp; with<BR>&gt; different groups battling for the survival of their timeline.<BR><BR>...Or, perhaps, a Traveller/Feng Shui crossover...<BR>&gt;:)<BR><BR>- -O.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:28:26 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution*<BR><BR>&gt;From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:42:41 -0400<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get<BR>&gt; &gt;rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jeez, that's almost like suggesting we use D20 for task resoultions...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Trent<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I don't see that as a bad thing.<BR><BR>*name changed to accomodate for the inevitable flame war to follow<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:37:43 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>Thing wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:13 PM<BR>&gt; Craig Berry said,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Yes, if you also allow for the weight of the balloon material.&nbsp; But<BR>&gt; it's<BR>&gt; &gt; far easier (and more useful) to use pure helium, and then add payload,<BR>&gt; &gt; structure, and ballast mass until you achieve neutral buoyancy.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was wondering, given a rigid envelope of sufficient strength and such,<BR>&gt; wouldn't a large envelope of vacuum be more effective than any lifting<BR>&gt; glass.&nbsp; It should bring the overall density of the whole rig to the<BR>&gt; lowest possible value (without using degenerate forms of matter).<BR><BR>True, but the helium envelope has the great advantage in that it's self<BR>supporting, with an internal pressure of 1 atm (maybe slightly higher to<BR>keep the bags supported).<BR><BR>Your vaccuum ballon requires an _incredibly_ strong shell to withstand<BR>the enormous forces that the 1 atm pressure differential will put on the<BR>envelope.<BR><BR>Also, in an only slightly pressurized helium envelope, you can have a<BR>tear in the envelope that won't cause the thing to shred itself and<BR>plummet like a rock, like a tear in your vaccuum ballon would.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:44:53 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Special PSI Powers (long)<BR><BR>"Alan M. Nuss" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't remember where I got these from.<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snips list of Special psi powers&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Hmmm.&nbsp; Might have been when you met that old man in the desert (the one<BR>who knew your father before he was betrayed)....<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:41:40 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;But more seriously, I for one have never been able to make sense of the<BR>&gt;Long Night.&nbsp; An economic and political vacuum just isn't stable.&nbsp; All it<BR>&gt;takes is a scattering of self-sufficient high-tech worlds to keep<BR>&gt;interstellar trade going.&nbsp; Imagine the fortunes to be made if your three<BR>&gt;nearest trade rivals go out of business due to economic chaos!&nbsp; Trade<BR>&gt;dependent worlds would have a few hard years to get through, following<BR>&gt;which waves of carpetbaggers would descend on them, selling air plant<BR>&gt;replacement parts at whatever the market would bear.&nbsp; Mercantilist pocket<BR>&gt;empires would expand rapidly under these conditions.&nbsp; From a few such<BR>&gt;seeds, the entire volume of the Second Imperium could easily be humming<BR>&gt;along again in 50 years, tops.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So how do we account for almost a millenium of collapse?&nbsp; What were the<BR>&gt;high-tech, self-sufficient worlds doing through seven centuries of Night?<BR>&gt;Or more to the point, why *weren't* any of them doing seemingly obvious<BR>&gt;things?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>That's just the point. The Long Night was brought about by people acting <BR>stupid. Think about it. Even if piracy had not een as rampant as it had <BR>been, the minor races that were subjgated by the Vilani would certainly not <BR>have had much sympathy for the humans and thus rebelled anyway. And what <BR>with the ROM being a military dictatorship, it would have only been a matter <BR>of time before it went totally bankrupt.<BR><BR>And it's not just in Traveller. In the TV show Andromeda, the Long Night was <BR>brought about by two stupid acts: Peace with the Magog and a rebellion. If <BR>they had been smart, neither would have happened.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:41:11 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>At 10:24 23.10.00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;_most_ of 'em! After all we've backed them up to the cosmos via<BR>&gt;broadcast...sure _someone_ out there will take note of our, err,<BR>&gt;documentaries... ;-)<BR><BR><BR>Which brings us back to Traveller, or our devotion to it:<BR>"Never give up, never surrender!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:42:02 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:26 PM<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; to reintegrate the timeline!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Ye ghods, that's twisted. Any change you'll run it, and make <BR>&gt; &gt; it a pbem? :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ha, I'd need to give up my day job to make time to fit it in with<BR>&gt; all my other projects.&nbsp; Do you want a crack at running&nbsp; it&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; pbem?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt; <BR>If it does turn into a pbem, can I play the Villian intent on commiting<BR>evil acts, such as using my squad of Female aslan in comfy shoes to<BR>accelerate thruster plated virus ridden life pods at pirate asteroids? <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:50:18 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>&gt;From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:37:43 -0700<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Thing wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; On Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:13 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; Craig Berry said,<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Yes, if you also allow for the weight of the balloon material.&nbsp; But<BR>&gt; &gt; it's<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; far easier (and more useful) to use pure helium, and then add payload,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; structure, and ballast mass until you achieve neutral buoyancy.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I was wondering, given a rigid envelope of sufficient strength and such,<BR>&gt; &gt; wouldn't a large envelope of vacuum be more effective than any lifting<BR>&gt; &gt; glass.&nbsp; It should bring the overall density of the whole rig to the<BR>&gt; &gt; lowest possible value (without using degenerate forms of matter).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;True, but the helium envelope has the great advantage in that it's self<BR>&gt;supporting, with an internal pressure of 1 atm (maybe slightly higher to<BR>&gt;keep the bags supported).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Your vaccuum ballon requires an _incredibly_ strong shell to withstand<BR>&gt;the enormous forces that the 1 atm pressure differential will put on the<BR>&gt;envelope.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Also, in an only slightly pressurized helium envelope, you can have a<BR>&gt;tear in the envelope that won't cause the thing to shred itself and<BR>&gt;plummet like a rock, like a tear in your vaccuum ballon would.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Wouldn't placing a balloon (or anything for that matter) into a vacuum mean <BR>that it's not a vacuum anymore?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:52:17 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:41:11 +0200<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At 10:24 23.10.00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;_most_ of 'em! After all we've backed them up to the cosmos via<BR>&gt;&gt;broadcast...sure _someone_ out there will take note of our, err,<BR>&gt;&gt;documentaries... ;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Which brings us back to Traveller, or our devotion to it:<BR>&gt;"Never give up, never surrender!"<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>You know that wasn't a real TV show, don't you? Of course, I could be wrong. <BR>And yes, I'm talking about GalaxyQuest.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:56:35 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Update: "other" PSI powers on the web (TM)<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson was kind enough to send me his list of PSI powers (and a few of<BR>his house rules for existing powers, it seems). With his permission, I put<BR>them on the web. So now I have my very own Traveller web page (sort of; I'm<BR>not the author of the material, but never mind that ;-).<BR><BR>The URL is http://hem.passagen.se/tage/traveller/ (and yes, I'm partially<BR>color blind and no, I don't care what you may think of my choice of colors).<BR><BR>Thanks Ian!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:06:45 -0500 (CDT)<BR>From: Gregory Carl Kettler &lt;gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, SD Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Nope. The only way I can see this happening is if the Empress Wave <BR>&gt; (see below) has catastrophic impact on the Regency. The RC is about <BR>&gt; the same technology as the Third Imperium as it was born out of the <BR>&gt; Sylean Federation. The Regency is a TL17 society if allowed to <BR>&gt; progress. The Regency has massively better weaponry, industrial base, <BR>&gt; power supplies, population and abilities compared to the RC. A big <BR>&gt; ship for the RC is something like a modular cutter, which I seem to <BR>&gt; recall is smaller than a Fleet Escort for the Regency. If they <BR>&gt; encounter each other, the Regency is more likely to absorb the RC <BR>&gt; than form an alliance. At best, the RC would be a client state.<BR><BR>The RC and the Regency are separated by a few sectors of difficult<BR>territory, and RC technology is advancing quickly thanks to Hiver<BR>assistance and a steady stream of recovered relics.&nbsp; I suspect by the time<BR>the Regency could spare a fleet to go out and conquer the RC, they'd meet<BR>more resistance than a few clippers.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:10:24 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Jeez, that's almost like suggesting we use D20 for task resoultions...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Trent<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I don't see that as a bad thing.<BR><BR>&gt;*name changed to accomodate for the inevitable flame war to follow<BR><BR>&gt;-J. Jensen<BR><BR><BR>It's well-known that anyone who uses dice with greater or fewer(1) than six-sides is some kind of weirdo.&nbsp; Nothing more need be said. <BR><BR>Except this -- Orthodox dice have spots, not numbers, and only follow two color schemes(2): 1) white with black spots, or 2) black with red spots.&nbsp; And they only exist in pairs -- don't be showin' up around these parts with 3D!(3)&nbsp; Furthermore, anyone trying to pass off new-fangled non-cube-shaped six-sided dice as legitimate is a heretic of the worst sort and shall not be tolerated(4).<BR>&nbsp; <BR><BR>Trent,<BR>representing the Dice Inquisition<BR><BR>(1)Yes, that includes T4 and its perverse 'half-dice.'<BR><BR>(2)In an emergency, other color schemes (such as red with black or white spots) may be used, but under no circumstances are dice with 'fancy' faces (diamond shaped spots, skulls in place of 1s, etc.) acceptable.&nbsp; <BR><BR>(3)Note on usage: as specifying "D6" tends to legitimize other (i.e. weirdo) dice, they must be refered to only by "D".<BR><BR>(4) While acceptable size of dice is still being debated, anyone who uses dice that are clearly too large or too small is showing dangerous dice-revisionist tendencies, and should be watched carefully.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:10:42 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt;From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:43:56 -0700 (PDT)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Brandon Cope writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just <BR>&gt;get<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; HEPlaR has it's own reality problems as well, though the problem is in<BR>&gt; &gt; efficiency, not in existance ;)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, it also has problems related to exhaust vaporizing cities.<BR><BR>What if most of the plasma was caught after it provided the thrust and <BR>recycled.<BR><BR>Or what if we just doubled the expenditure of fuel?<BR><BR>Just some thoughts...<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:07:24 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Craig Berry [mailto:cberry@cinenet.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 6:06 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:14:50 CDT<BR>&gt; &gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why <BR>&gt; don't we just get <BR>&gt; &gt; rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; TNE looked at that question and did precisely that.&nbsp; But <BR>&gt; using a (semi-) <BR>&gt; realistic thrust model makes the 'feel' of space travel very, very<BR>&gt; different from what Traveller players are used to, and indeed from how<BR>&gt; space travel is portrayed in most far-future science fiction. <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Rather than<BR>&gt; just saying "We head out to Zargospax VII" and calculating an <BR>&gt; accelerate-<BR>&gt; flip-decelerate flight time, you have to carefully manage the <BR>&gt; day or so of<BR>&gt; thrust you have available.&nbsp; In-system jumps become a much <BR>&gt; more attractive<BR>&gt; option in many circumstances.&nbsp; Also, as others have pointed <BR>&gt; out, landing<BR>&gt; near a populated area with a drive that emits relativistic <BR>&gt; plasma isn't<BR>&gt; going to make you many friends, as opposed to t-plate technology which<BR>&gt; lets you land in a parking lot if the need arises.<BR><BR>Hmmm.... I thought that planetary landings were done with contra-grav,<BR>with minimal thrust provided from Heplar.... still... that may be just<BR>my interpretation.<BR><BR>In Classic I didn't really care what the Maneuver drives were, although<BR>I did imagine them as fusion rockets (many a PC was vaporized while<BR>trying to hide in the thrust chamber of the Drive.... hee hee).<BR><BR>In MT, I happily accepted the thruster plate, until COOAC, when I<BR>noticed that I could could replace the TP in *any* starship with Fusion<BR>rockets, and get better performance and more power (at least while<BR>thrusting). So to me, the Thruster plates were obviously broken, and<BR>there were no rules for radiation from Fusion rockets in MT, so I could<BR>not understand why everyone was using these really ineficient plates.<BR>Still, didn't affect how we played the game. <BR><BR>In TNE, Heplar made sense to me... (it was just a fusion rocket after<BR>all), and I loved the way that players now had to watch their fuel usage<BR>(made for some interesting adventures). Let me be evil and sadistic on<BR>whole new levels. <BR><BR>In T4, they had both, an idea I can appreciate.... although we didn't<BR>play too much T4 (we tried it once, then decided to wait for the next<BR>version).&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:16:18 EDT<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;For those of you that still use the CT/MT character generation I would<BR>&gt;like<BR>&gt;to ask you a few questions.&nbsp; Does anyone know if the Special Duty roll<BR>&gt;was<BR>&gt;created for MT or was it an CT option created by DGP?&nbsp; Do you tend to<BR>&gt;like<BR>&gt;or dislike the advanced character generation systems from<BR>&gt;Mercenary/High<BR>&gt;Guard/Scouts?&nbsp; Has anyone made any personal changes to the CT skill<BR>&gt;system<BR>&gt;that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your time...<BR><BR>I think that the Special Duty Roll first appears in MT.&nbsp; It gives basic<BR>chargen PCs a bit more skills to balance them against advanced chargen<BR>types.&nbsp; In my games, I gave an additional skill (3rd) if the players rolled<BR>8 higher than the needed roll (DMs included) for postion, promotion or <BR>special duty.&nbsp; I also allowed basic chargen types to attend college &amp; <BR>graduate school (like medical school, but they can pick a technical field <BR>to specialize in to get a level-3 skill).&nbsp; I also gave college graduates<BR>automatic enlistment in the career of their choice (within reason -- SOC <BR>&lt; 10 can't become nobles, e.g.).<BR><BR>Don't give skills to *advanced* chargen types on position, promotion, or<BR>automatically per term.&nbsp; They also don't get the service skills of basic<BR>chargen types (i.e. auto +1 SOC for Navy Captains).&nbsp; They only get skills<BR>from initial training, special assignments, or if they roll to get a skill<BR>in an ordinary assignment, or from higher education prior to entering their<BR>career.&nbsp; This goes for advanced Scouts &amp; Merchants, too.&nbsp; Also, don't give<BR>advanced characters bonus skills for rolling 4 or 8 higher than the base<BR>skill rolls.<BR><BR>MT improved much on chargen IMHO, and fixed many of the bugs.&nbsp; I would use<BR>it in preference to CT chargen.&nbsp; The above changes should balance out the<BR>basic &amp; advanced character types a bit more than standard CT/MT.<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:12:09 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 19:56 23.10.00 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;At 12:16 -0400 23/10/00, "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;BTW: Anybody else thought it peculiar, that the Long Night, prompted by a<BR>&gt;&gt;loss of financial stability lasted 700 years, but the Short Night, prompted<BR>&gt;&gt;by the total destruction of the Imperium by a doomsday weapon gone wild,<BR>&gt;&gt;which still roams the wilds, only lasted 70 years?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;'Watch Volker open the can of worms, children'.<BR><BR>Oops! Did I do that? Sorry ;-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:18:59 EDT<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Special Psi powers<BR><BR>Tage Borg wants special Psi suggestions so...<BR><BR>Quick list:<BR><BR>Pyrokinesis ("Firestarter")<BR><BR>Tele-Hallucination (break it down into audio, visual, touch, sense of <BR>acceleration/motion/balance, pain, thirst, blindness, perception of <BR>heat, etc.&nbsp; Lotsa fun.<BR><BR>Psychic Vampirism -- "gobble gabble Whomp-Year" (Identify the quote).<BR>Can drain life out of victim (or just Psi Strength points -- whatever the Ref<BR>prefers).<BR><BR>Telempathic "fixing" of emotional alteration; i.e. lasting empathic changes<BR>i.e. "The Mule".&nbsp; Make it costly, and of limited duration (6 hours or a day).<BR><BR>Teleport other objects (makes good weapon against fixed structures).<BR><BR>Ability to use awareness talents on others.&nbsp; Also, the cheapest "new" psi<BR>talent, psionically enhanced Dexterity.&nbsp; Yawn.<BR><BR>Steal some Droyne psi-abilities from AM5 and give them to non Droyne PCs.<BR><BR>Psychometry.<BR><BR>Precognition.<BR><BR>Telepathic ability to transmit/receive sensory impressions -- see through<BR>the eyes of others.<BR><BR>Mind control.<BR><BR>Telepathic stunning (like MT neural rifle).<BR><BR>Selective cerebral damage via telepathy; "burn-out" memories, personality,<BR>speech faculties, ability to visually perceive motion, sense of balance, <BR>etc.&nbsp; Lotsa fun &amp; very dangerous.&nbsp; PCs will hate you if you use it on them.<BR><BR>Manipulation of matter (like some nano-tech; e.g. turn a shrubbery -- or an<BR>NPC -- into a "soup" of miscellaneous organic chemicals; use sparingly).<BR>You could also do sub-molecular manipulation, I suppose.&nbsp; Psionic nuclear <BR>dampers.&nbsp; Fission of ordinarily stable isotopes.&nbsp; Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very <BR>afraid.&nbsp; But, hey, it's your universe.<BR><BR>"Manipulative" telekinesis e.g. squeeze shut significant blood vessels<BR>in somebody else's body.&nbsp; Remotely defuse warhead.&nbsp; Sabotage computer.<BR><BR>Telepathically implanted false memories.&nbsp; Also, implanted "thoughts"<BR>which the victim thinks are their own.&nbsp; Refs can use bogus "idea"<BR>rolls to make the players believe their characters remembered something<BR>or originated an idea.&nbsp; Remember to praise them for succeeding on the <BR>roll or, if they fail, give vague hints about the what the false memory/<BR>idea entails, and let them try again later.&nbsp; You could run a mystery <BR>scenario where one (all?) of the PCs thinks *she* (they) is (are) the <BR>murderer, but are really innocent.<BR><BR>There must be many others.<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3203<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:22:00 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:21:26 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA92223;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:19:54 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:19:41 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA92177<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:19:41 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:19:41 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010232219.SAA92177@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3203<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3204<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Nobles for Loren (long)<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:27:06 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>James Jensen writes:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Well, it also has problems related to exhaust vaporizing cities.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What if most of the plasma was caught after it provided the thrust and <BR>&gt; recycled.<BR><BR>Then it wouldn't provide thrust.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Or what if we just doubled the expenditure of fuel?<BR><BR>More like increase by factor of 1000.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just some thoughts...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -J. Jensen<BR>&gt; ========================================<BR>&gt; "It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>&gt; reaction.'"<BR>&gt; -Rev Bem<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>&gt; http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:27:00 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>&gt;It's well-known that anyone who uses dice with greater or fewer(1) than <BR>&gt;six-sides is some kind of weirdo.&nbsp; Nothing more need be said.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>So, you would go against Marc Miller? After all, he was part of the team <BR>that created T4 wasn't he? T5 uses half-dice, doesn't it?<BR><BR>And what of Gary Gygax, who started the whole RPG thing rolling?<BR><BR>&gt;Except this -- Orthodox dice have spots, not numbers, and only follow two <BR>&gt;color schemes(2): 1) white with black spots, or 2) black with red spots.&nbsp; <BR>&gt;And they only exist in pairs -- don't be showin' up around these parts with <BR>&gt;3D!(3)&nbsp; Furthermore, anyone trying to pass off new-fangled non-cube-shaped <BR>&gt;six-sided dice as legitimate is a heretic of the worst sort and shall not <BR>&gt;be tolerated(4).<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Trent,<BR>&gt;representing the Dice Inquisition<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(1)Yes, that includes T4 and its perverse 'half-dice.'<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Watch it. I like T4.<BR><BR>&gt;(2)In an emergency, other color schemes (such as red with black or white <BR>&gt;spots) may be used, but under no circumstances are dice with 'fancy' faces <BR>&gt;(diamond shaped spots, skulls in place of 1s, etc.) acceptable.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>How about brown with white dots (I believe their actually called pips)?<BR><BR>&gt;(3)Note on usage: as specifying "D6" tends to legitimize other (i.e. <BR>&gt;weirdo) dice, they must be refered to only by "D".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(4) While acceptable size of dice is still being debated, anyone who uses <BR>&gt;dice that are clearly too large or too small is showing dangerous <BR>&gt;dice-revisionist tendencies, and should be watched carefully.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>So fuzzy dice are out of the question, then?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Supporter of the Polyhedron Reformation<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:32:54 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:16:18 -0700<BR>&gt; From: "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was wondering, given a rigid envelope of sufficient strength and such,<BR>&gt; wouldn't a large envelope of vacuum be more effective than any lifting<BR>&gt; glass.&nbsp; It should bring the overall density of the whole rig to the<BR>&gt; lowest possible value (without using degenerate forms of matter).<BR><BR>Of course!&nbsp; And it's just "lowest possible", period, since any form of<BR>matter will have positive density -- unless you meant 'exotic matter',<BR>which is still a gleam in various theorists' eyes.<BR><BR>The problem, of course, is that it takes so much structural strength to<BR>keep from buckling under a 14 PSI external load that, at reasonable TLs,<BR>the structural weight is greater than the lift.&nbsp; Using a light gas at or<BR>near atmospheric pressure allows a very thin envelope, vastly reducing<BR>structural weight. <BR><BR>Vernor Vinge's 'bobbles' would make ideal vacuum ballons, though.&nbsp; Those<BR>things have a thousand and one household uses beyond their (forward) time<BR>travel capabilities, notably including the fact that they would instantly<BR>become the only choice for ball bearings.&nbsp; Imagine a bearing with<BR>negligible mass, and which never wears at all.&nbsp; (Though you'd want to keep<BR>a *very* careful eye on the maintenance schedule, unless you can bobble<BR>for a billion years, which the book never makes clear.)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:36:49 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What if most of the plasma was caught after it provided the thrust and<BR>&gt; recycled.<BR><BR>Well, _catching_ the exhaust after it imparted the thrust would require<BR>more energy that it would provide in thrust, because you're catching<BR>plasma that was shoved out the back of your ship. at a high enough speed<BR>to make your ship move in the opposite direction.<BR><BR>You _can't_ pull yourself up by your bootstraps no matter how hard you<BR>try.<BR><BR>&gt; Or what if we just doubled the expenditure of fuel?<BR><BR>Therein lies the rub. Heplar sucks H2 like a '69 Roadrunner SuperSport<BR>with a 6-Pack sucks gasoline; that is to say, at a prodigious rate. <BR><BR>Providing enough fuel for a heplar of high thrust and long duration<BR>_really_ cuts into the cargo space. In marginal ship designs, like most<BR>PC's ships, this means the difference between profits and running from<BR>the repo man.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:40:34 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:41:40 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;So how do we account for almost a millenium of collapse?&nbsp; What were the<BR>&gt; &gt;high-tech, self-sufficient worlds doing through seven centuries of Night?<BR>&gt; &gt;Or more to the point, why *weren't* any of them doing seemingly obvious<BR>&gt; &gt;things?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's just the point. The Long Night was brought about by people acting<BR>&gt; stupid. Think about it. Even if piracy had not een as rampant as it had<BR>&gt; been, the minor races that were subjgated by the Vilani would certainly<BR>&gt; not have had much sympathy for the humans and thus rebelled anyway. And<BR>&gt; what with the ROM being a military dictatorship, it would have only been<BR>&gt; a matter of time before it went totally bankrupt. <BR><BR>Yes, but again, the question isn't what causes the collapse, but rather,<BR>why it lasts seven centuries.&nbsp; All it takes is one self-sufficient<BR>high-tech world per sector to re-establish trade and government over most<BR>of the ex-Imperium in less than a century.&nbsp; And after everybody has been<BR>in a horrible depression for a few decades, with marginal worlds watching<BR>their food and air supplies teetering on the brink, my guess is that most<BR>worlds will be really, really glad when the expanding mercantilist state<BR>reaches them.&nbsp; After all, this is the model of what happened when Sylea<BR>became the Third Imperium.&nbsp; What stopped it from happening for nearly a<BR>millenium?<BR><BR>&gt; And it's not just in Traveller. In the TV show Andromeda, the Long Night<BR>&gt; was brought about by two stupid acts: Peace with the Magog and a<BR>&gt; rebellion. If they had been smart, neither would have happened. <BR><BR>Rule one:&nbsp; Never make peace with anything named out of the Book of<BR>Revelations. :)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:01:34 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; And it's not just in Traveller. In the TV show Andromeda, the Long Night<BR>&gt;&gt; was brought about by two stupid acts: Peace with the Magog and a<BR>&gt;&gt; rebellion. If they had been smart, neither would have happened.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Rule one:&nbsp; Never make peace with anything named out of the Book of<BR>&gt;Revelations. :)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; One question, wasn't Gog &amp; Magog also out of Celtic, Scottish, Irish,<BR>Brittish, or Whelsh Folklore?&nbsp; I remember some stories about a pair of<BR>Demons (cannot remember of the are the Fermi from Irish Folklore or not)<BR>that ravaged the people of the Green &amp; Pleasant Land, until a Hero came &amp;<BR>fought it for several days &amp; couldn't kill it, but he was able to put it<BR>into a long sleep.&nbsp; But, you also have to look at why they made peace, the<BR>High Guard &amp; the Commonwealth had never fought a major war.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:54:07 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>Craig Berry writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Yes, but again, the question isn't what causes the collapse, but rather,<BR>&gt; why it lasts seven centuries.<BR><BR>The same reason everything is glacially slow in the TU.&nbsp; Some heretic on<BR>JTAS suggested dividing all timeframes for everying in Traveller by 5, which<BR>just results in a generally more sensible timeline for a lot of events.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:54:42 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>James Jensen (responding to me) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;It's well-known that anyone who uses dice with greater or fewer(1) than <BR>&gt;&gt;six-sides is some kind of weirdo.&nbsp; Nothing more need be said.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;So, you would go against Marc Miller? After all, he was part of the team <BR>&gt;that created T4 wasn't he? T5 uses half-dice, doesn't it?<BR>&gt;And what of Gary Gygax, who started the whole RPG thing rolling?<BR><BR>Marc Miller is above the law.&nbsp; Gygax, however, is clearly Dice Offender #1 (nice little pun, though).<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;(1)Yes, that includes T4 and its perverse 'half-dice.'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Watch it. I like T4.<BR>&gt;<BR>I'd expect nothing less from an admitted Polyhedral Reformer...<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;(2)In an emergency, other color schemes (such as red with black or white <BR>&gt;&gt;spots) may be used, but under no circumstances are dice with 'fancy' faces <BR>&gt;&gt;(diamond shaped spots, skulls in place of 1s, etc.) acceptable.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;How about brown with white dots (I believe their actually called pips)?<BR><BR>Sounds kinda fishy; we'll have to refer it to the council.&nbsp; I'd hold off using the dice in question until we've had an opportunity to fully explore the possible ramifications of condoning such 'fecal dice.'<BR><BR>Furthermore, the word "pip" has been investigated and found unacceptable, as it reminds the council too much of that snotty little kid in 'Great Expectations.' <BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;(4) While acceptable size of dice is still being debated, anyone who uses <BR>&gt;&gt;dice that are clearly too large or too small is showing dangerous <BR>&gt;&gt;dice-revisionist tendencies, and should be watched carefully.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;So fuzzy dice are out of the question, then?<BR><BR>Depends on the proposed use: hanging from the rearview mirror = acceptable (and, in fact, encouraged!).&nbsp; Rolling across the table generating random numbers = highly suspect, indeed.<BR><BR><BR>Trent<BR>(Sorry, I really didn't mean to post twice on this subject, but the response came so quick that I just couldn't control myself...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:57:19 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;So how do we account for almost a millenium of collapse?&nbsp; What were the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;high-tech, self-sufficient worlds doing through seven centuries of <BR>&gt;Night?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Or more to the point, why *weren't* any of them doing seemingly obvious<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;things?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; That's just the point. The Long Night was brought about by people acting<BR>&gt; &gt; stupid. Think about it. Even if piracy had not een as rampant as it had<BR>&gt; &gt; been, the minor races that were subjgated by the Vilani would certainly<BR>&gt; &gt; not have had much sympathy for the humans and thus rebelled anyway. And<BR>&gt; &gt; what with the ROM being a military dictatorship, it would have only been<BR>&gt; &gt; a matter of time before it went totally bankrupt.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yes, but again, the question isn't what causes the collapse, but rather,<BR>&gt;why it lasts seven centuries.&nbsp; All it takes is one self-sufficient<BR>&gt;high-tech world per sector to re-establish trade and government over most<BR>&gt;of the ex-Imperium in less than a century.&nbsp; And after everybody has been<BR>&gt;in a horrible depression for a few decades, with marginal worlds watching<BR>&gt;their food and air supplies teetering on the brink, my guess is that most<BR>&gt;worlds will be really, really glad when the expanding mercantilist state<BR>&gt;reaches them.&nbsp; After all, this is the model of what happened when Sylea<BR>&gt;became the Third Imperium.&nbsp; What stopped it from happening for nearly a<BR>&gt;millenium?<BR><BR>Don't you mean two millenium? The Long Night lasted 1700 years, not 700. <BR>Most people didn't even know what was going on until it was too late. By the <BR>time it reached its climax, almost everyone had given up hope. Also, as <BR>evidenced by Milieu: 0's Chanestin Kingdom and Interstellar Confederacy, the <BR>Pocket Empires were swayed by Vilani culture, which stresses centralized <BR>rule, which always leads to a fall. Furthermore, any ne'er-do-well who could <BR>get his or her hands on a ship would start raiding and aiding the <BR>destruction of civilization.<BR><BR>Vilani tradition was definately to blame here. Its throughly conducive to <BR>non-empire chaos.<BR><BR>In the immortal words of Lucy Ricardo, "...Ah, it's a mess!"<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; And it's not just in Traveller. In the TV show Andromeda, the Long Night<BR>&gt; &gt; was brought about by two stupid acts: Peace with the Magog and a<BR>&gt; &gt; rebellion. If they had been smart, neither would have happened.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Rule one:&nbsp; Never make peace with anything named out of the Book of<BR>&gt;Revelations. :)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Never quite thought of it taht way...<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:52:33 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Nobles for Loren (long)<BR><BR>Dear Loren -<BR><BR>Sorry for the late response - I had hoped to look through some more "old stuff"<BR>(JTAS 8-24) on the weekend, but things didn't pan out that way. I'm finding 3<BR>kids to be somewhat of a, um, handful!<BR><BR>Anyway, here's a start - some Imperials, some of whom are nobles.<BR><BR><BR>The following are all from the TNS reports reprinted in the 5FW boxed game.<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 201-1105<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Lobeck hault-Donesev<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Navy Commander, Baron<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: Baron<BR>Location: Regina<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; IN's former system liaison officer on the L-Hyd project. Appears<BR>to have been removed as liaison after giving away too much info at a press<BR>briefing.<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 201-1105<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Harcord Haveln<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; n/a<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: n/a<BR>Location: Regina<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Press Secretary, General Shipyards<BR>(Not yet a noble, but this was 15 years ago)<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 241-1105<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Artura Gramlyn<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Navy Lieutenant<BR>Sex: Female<BR>Title: n/a<BR>Location: Pixie<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Naval Counter-Intelligence officer investigating (or covering<BR>up?) the Pixie explosion<BR>(Not yet a noble, but this was 15 years ago, and you know those easy Navy<BR>promos!)<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 004-1106<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Windan Lorimer<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Marine Major (ret)<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: n/a<BR>Location: Regina<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Counter-insurgency on Efate, with auxiliaries vs the Ine Givar<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 004-1106<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Santanocheev<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; C-in-C, Navy Rear Admiral, Lord<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: Lord (what does this equate to?)<BR>Location: Regina<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; C-in-C (Sector Admiral)<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 078-1107<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eitan Rahbaan<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Army Colonel<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: n/a<BR>Location: Efate<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Public relations officer for 3rd (Provisional) Frontier Army<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 078-1107<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Calavan<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Army Vice-Marshal, Lord<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: Lord<BR>Location: Efate<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Commander of the 43rd Provisional Army<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 054-1107<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vanderheydt hault-Josephson<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Navy Lt Commander<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: Baron<BR>Location: Regina<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Public relations officer for the IN, Regina<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 186-1107<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Shterbifriashav<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ambassador<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: shav (a Zho noble rank, I'll have to look it up)<BR>Location: Regina<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Zhodani ambassador to the Imperium<BR>(OK, so he's not Imperial, but I can't remember if you said you want ALL nobles<BR>or just some)<BR><BR>Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 204-1107<BR>Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Adam Bryor<BR>Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Army Vice-Marshal, Lord<BR>Sex: Male<BR>Title: Lord<BR>Location: Rhylanor<BR>Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Commander of Imperial ground forces (in the Marches? Or just on<BR>Rhylanor??)<BR><BR><BR>The following are the admirals from the 5FW counters. Since most admirals are<BR>nobles, I thought I'd include them here.<BR><BR>1&nbsp; &nbsp; Liang&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill -1<BR>2&nbsp; &nbsp; Shumii&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 1, Skill 1<BR>3&nbsp; &nbsp; Shanashar&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill 0<BR>4&nbsp; &nbsp; Mtume&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 0, Skill +2<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; Goolanzoon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 0, Skill +3<BR><BR>================================<BR>NOTE: the guys above were not in the canonical 5FW - heck, they're probably all<BR>retired by now! (Liang _should_ be!)<BR>[I want Goolanzoon! Goolanzoon for Sector Admiral!! Oy oy oy...!!&nbsp; (It'll<BR>probably turn out that he's from Corridor!)]<BR>================================<BR><BR>6&nbsp; &nbsp; Santanocheev&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill +1 (referred to as a Rear Admiral)<BR>7&nbsp; &nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0&nbsp; (referred to as a Vice Admiral)<BR>8&nbsp; &nbsp; Ashluda&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 2, Skill +2<BR>9&nbsp; &nbsp; Djoulikian&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill +3<BR>10&nbsp;&nbsp; Vasilyev&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill +1<BR>11&nbsp;&nbsp; Aledon Norris,&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 0, Skill 0<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Duke of Regina<BR>12&nbsp;&nbsp; Romao*&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill +1<BR>13&nbsp;&nbsp; Stvi&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 1, Skill -1<BR>14&nbsp;&nbsp; Gascogne&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill -1<BR>*(the "a" has a dash above it)<BR><BR>Santanocheev, Elphinstone, and Norris are mentioned in later TNS reports -<BR>Elphinstone chases down the Vargr fleets, destroying one and scattering the<BR>other.<BR><BR><BR>I'm also sending this to the TML in the hope that someone may find this<BR>interesting - the 5FW admirals, for instance.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:10:48 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:41:40 CDT<BR>&gt; &gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes, but again, the question isn't what causes the collapse, but rather,<BR>&gt; why it lasts seven centuries.&nbsp; All it takes is one self-sufficient<BR>&gt; high-tech world per sector to re-establish trade and government over most<BR>&gt; of the ex-Imperium in less than a century.&nbsp; And after everybody has been<BR>&gt; in a horrible depression for a few decades, with marginal worlds watching<BR>&gt; their food and air supplies teetering on the brink, my guess is that most<BR>&gt; worlds will be really, really glad when the expanding mercantilist state<BR>&gt; reaches them.&nbsp; After all, this is the model of what happened when Sylea<BR>&gt; became the Third Imperium.&nbsp; What stopped it from happening for nearly a<BR>&gt; millenium?<BR><BR>One possible explanation is that most early attempts at rebuilding large<BR>interstellar states ran into each other too soon.&nbsp; With rough parity<BR>between such pocket empires, they tended to fight each other to<BR>exhaustion (thus delaying any rebuilding in that sector for another<BR>century or so).&nbsp; Those interstellar polities that avoid this pitfall<BR>tended to be relatively non-expansionist (such as the Old Earth Union). <BR>The Sylean Federation, OTOH, was able to grow large enough to ensure<BR>that it overmatched any nearby opponents.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; And it's not just in Traveller. In the TV show Andromeda, the Long Night<BR>&gt; &gt; was brought about by two stupid acts: Peace with the Magog and a<BR>&gt; &gt; rebellion. If they had been smart, neither would have happened.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Rule one:&nbsp; Never make peace with anything named out of the Book of<BR>&gt; Revelations. :)<BR><BR>Does that mean I should cancel my date this evening with the Whore of<BR>Babylon?<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:07:39 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>&gt;James Jensen (responding to me) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;It's well-known that anyone who uses dice with greater or fewer(1) than<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;six-sides is some kind of weirdo.&nbsp; Nothing more need be said.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;So, you would go against Marc Miller? After all, he was part of the team<BR>&gt; &gt;that created T4 wasn't he? T5 uses half-dice, doesn't it?<BR>&gt; &gt;And what of Gary Gygax, who started the whole RPG thing rolling?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Marc Miller is above the law.&nbsp; Gygax, however, is clearly Dice Offender #1 <BR>&gt;(nice little pun, though).<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>So, does Marc rule a type A, B, or D government?<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;(1)Yes, that includes T4 and its perverse 'half-dice.'<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Watch it. I like T4.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;I'd expect nothing less from an admitted Polyhedral Reformer...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;(2)In an emergency, other color schemes (such as red with black or white<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;spots) may be used, but under no circumstances are dice with 'fancy' <BR>&gt;faces<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;(diamond shaped spots, skulls in place of 1s, etc.) acceptable.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;How about brown with white dots (I believe their actually called pips)?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sounds kinda fishy; we'll have to refer it to the council.&nbsp; I'd hold off <BR>&gt;using the dice in question until we've had an opportunity to fully explore <BR>&gt;the possible ramifications of condoning such 'fecal dice.'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Furthermore, the word "pip" has been investigated and found unacceptable, <BR>&gt;as it reminds the council too much of that snotty little kid in 'Great <BR>&gt;Expectations.'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;(4) While acceptable size of dice is still being debated, anyone who <BR>&gt;uses<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;dice that are clearly too large or too small is showing dangerous<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;dice-revisionist tendencies, and should be watched carefully.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;So fuzzy dice are out of the question, then?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Depends on the proposed use: hanging from the rearview mirror = acceptable <BR>&gt;(and, in fact, encouraged!).&nbsp; Rolling across the table generating random <BR>&gt;numbers = highly suspect, indeed.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>So, you're condemning Norm, Woody, Chuck, and Frasier too? They played <BR>Monopoly with them one episode!<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Trent<BR>&gt;(Sorry, I really didn't mean to post twice on this subject, but the <BR>&gt;response came so quick that I just couldn't control myself...)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>A call to all TML subscribers: Declare your allegiance today! Are you a <BR>member of the Old High Guard that is Roman Cubiscism, or do you find your <BR>calling in the great Polyhedron Reformation?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Supporter of the Polyhedral Remformation<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:09:26 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 16:40 -0400 23/10/00, stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest) wrote:<BR>&gt;TNE emphasises the "downfall of society" theme to create atmosphere,<BR>&gt;but we know there are still plenty of pocket empires out there.&nbsp; These<BR>&gt;will certainly retain many elements of Imperial culture - even if, as<BR>&gt;in the case of the RC, they have tried to change certain aspects of<BR>&gt;it.&nbsp; How many more Covenants of Suffren lurk out there in the Wilds,<BR>&gt;ready to be recontacted?<BR><BR>Probably a number, but take a look at the material published (and I <BR>confess to going off memory here as most of my TNE material is in <BR>storage) - it seems to suggest that a lot of worlds are either dead <BR>or severely regressed. If you look at the regression from _Hard <BR>Times_ there are a fair number of dead, dying and failing worlds <BR>which are already in trouble when Virus hits. I suspect that there <BR>are a number of worlds which were just below higher technology and <BR>totally integrated computers that survived (if only because there was <BR>little opportunity for Virus to breed/impact), but reading TNE seems <BR>to suggest that there aren't that many systems capable of space <BR>travel, especially not sustained space travel.<BR><BR>Along with the die off, there is quite a suggestion that the whole of <BR>Imperial culture is somewhat rejected from the slang used ('Lucanic', <BR>etc).<BR><BR>&lt;snip bit where we agree&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;The best explanation I can find is that the Regency will remain<BR>&gt;largely isolationist and inward-looking for a while longer, while the<BR>&gt;RC links up with many more states like Suffren and forges them into a<BR>&gt;federation, gradually spreading out across the former Imperium.&nbsp; Once<BR>&gt;contact is made, the Regency still has the wealth and high tech but<BR>&gt;the Coalition has acquired the numbers and resources, and more<BR>&gt;importantly retains more drive and initiative.<BR><BR>But Regency Sourcebook states that as of 1202 the Senate approved a <BR>limited opening of the borders - with the availability of high jump <BR>number drives (admittedly funneled through Corridor and Vland) the <BR>Regency will expand. The real issue is whether something happens when <BR>the Regency reach Gushemege (which I suspect they will go to, if only <BR>because of the Strephon link) and the borders of Dagusdashaag near <BR>the Black curtain. Will this be the point where the two societies <BR>meet? And how will the Viral dominated areas effect this.<BR><BR>&gt;No, they're a great opportunity for recolonisation on pre-terraformed<BR>&gt;worlds.&nbsp; The Black Death killed one in three people in Europe, and its<BR>&gt;most lasting effect was a rise in personal wealth for ordinary people,<BR>&gt;as there were fewer people to share the same amout of land and jobs...<BR><BR>The Black Death didn't smash technological development back more than <BR>a thousand years though; people could still form new communities by <BR>walking and meeting. Once Virus destroys your infrastructure and <BR>starships you are stuck on the world you are at.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;But I don't believe that the<BR>&gt; &gt;Traveller universe could realistically get to the state you describe<BR>&gt; &gt;from Virus. Better to abandon it than just bolt on more hand waving.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In that case, personally, I'd be more interested in working out what a<BR>&gt;realistic picture of the post-Virus era should look like.&nbsp; And I<BR>&gt;suspect it would *not* be an apocalyptic vision of thousands of worlds<BR>&gt;where stone-age savages huddled around campfires in the shells of<BR>&gt;bombed-out buildings...<BR><BR>Fair enough. I'd be interested in seeing a realistic development of <BR>Virus and its impact. However, I would be more interested in seeing a <BR>development of the Hard Times collapse and burn out of factions with <BR>the resulting power vacuums than a Virus future. In fact, in some <BR>ways I think that such a collapse could last a lot longer because the <BR>factions still survive.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>THIS POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE OPINIONS OF BITS UK LIMITED<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3204<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (rly-zd05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.229]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:11:49 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:11:12 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA97133;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:10:03 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:09:59 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA97072<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:09:59 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:09:59 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010232309.TAA97072@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3204<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3205</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3205<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR>Re: Re: Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:09:09 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 16:40 -0400 23/10/00, "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; 1) Virus has still happened with a total obliteration of Known Space<BR>&gt; &gt; Cultures as we know them.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; While it is true that Virus seriously disrupted the established<BR>&gt;cultures, (Being a TNE fan myself, I still feel this is the most serious<BR>&gt;loss to the game. I love CT too.) there are a few mitigating circumstances.<BR><BR>'Seriously disrupted'? It destroyed *everything* except the Domain of <BR>Deneb, the Aslan trans-rift colonies, The Zhodani Consulate and some <BR>of the Vargr!!!!<BR><BR>&gt;First, the Spinward Marches remain pretty much the same, minus a little<BR>&gt;power shift here and there. Second, as I have posted earlier, Virus allows<BR>&gt;the Regency to exist simply because it solves all of the problems faced by<BR>&gt;Deneb during the Rebellion.<BR><BR>I don't follow you here - AFAIK the fact that the Regency survives is <BR>due to the fact that they create the quarantine (no matter how <BR>believable that may or not be)?<BR><BR>&gt;Third, MT was already disintergrating 3I at an<BR>&gt;alarming rate.&nbsp; With the kind of war described in MT, Imperial culture was<BR>&gt;dying anyway.<BR><BR><BR>Actually not really - Deneb, Daibei, Margaret, Strephon and even <BR>Lucan had no real major cultural shifts. Dulinor tried change and was <BR>facing resistance internally. Bzrk was still ArchDuke even though he <BR>performed a UDI. The Imperium *was* fragmenting, but the culture was <BR>still there. Virus on the other hand disintegrated the 3I at an even <BR>more 'alarming rate'. In maybe 5 years it achieved what 15 years of <BR>all out war didn't. The end of Imperial culture in the bulk of the <BR>11000 systems, plus the collapse of all other states in contact.<BR><BR>It's a fantastic and audacious move on GDW's part which impressed me <BR>from one perspective, and on the other left me feeling angry because <BR>all the effort of Hard Times era campaigns was wiped away.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; 2) I was responding to a post that asked us what we would like to see<BR>&gt; &gt; in a modified Traveller - the original stuff was talking about<BR>&gt; &gt; decanonising (effectively) all of Traveller post 1116. *I* would like<BR>&gt; &gt; to see the impact on Known Space if the Imperium collapsed a la Hard<BR>&gt; &gt; Times.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, for one that seems kind of pointless. I mean, it has been done<BR>&gt;before. How many Imperia will we have collapse under its own weight before<BR>&gt;moving in a new direction.<BR><BR><BR>In Traveller? Maybe you could argue that the 2nd Imperium did, but not the 3I.<BR><BR>The Ziru Sirka was collapsing through it's bureaucracy and the fact <BR>that it stagnates due to technological rigidity and communication <BR>issues; however, it's fleets were smashed by the Terran forces, and <BR>the Vargr raiding to Coreward. The Terran Confederation was absorbed <BR>into the Rule of Man under a military coup. This second Imperium <BR>collapses when the Terrans cannot manage the economy of worlds who <BR>they try to culturally absorb.<BR><BR>So the First Imperium is weakened and conquered by the barbarians at <BR>its gates. The second Imperium takes that weakened state but <BR>inexperienced and stretched undermines the strengths of the culture <BR>and the economy with it. The economy fails when trade can no longer <BR>be guaranteed in -1776.<BR><BR>The Third Imperium is not collapsing under its own weight. It's like <BR>a spinning wheel which has the core blown apart. It spins and <BR>violently destroys itself as it tears itself apart.<BR><BR>You may feel that my wanting to see the collapse of the Imperium <BR>under _Hard Times_ instead of Virus is pointless. However, I reserve <BR>the right to want to see it myself for the changes *I* would like to <BR>see. And I don't really think that this has been done before - the <BR>Second Imperium collapsed and there was nothing else to fill the gap. <BR>A collapsed, factional 3I in the state described in _Hard Times_ has <BR>6 potential enemies - major polities controlling multiple sectors <BR>that are all intact and may well want to expand into the power <BR>vacuum. Not, to my mind, "pointless and done before".<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Now, I understand that real societies most often<BR>&gt;crumble from within, which I feel TNE preserves nicely. Essentially, Virus<BR>&gt;shows the extremes to which several of the factions were willing to go to<BR>&gt;win the war. However, when one side or the other is willing to design and<BR>&gt;later deploy such a weapon, it simply shows that they no longer believe in<BR>&gt;the Imperium as it was (and should be). Releasing Virus would be like the US<BR>&gt;nuking Georgia. Only if you have already accepted that your opponents are<BR>&gt;not your countrymen can you use such a draconian weapon. And MT clearly<BR>&gt;showed that events had deteriorated that far.<BR><BR>Lucan is a mad man - or a psychotic maniac. Virus is a weapon under <BR>development that was not meant to be released. It was an accident <BR>when a military research centre was raided. As planned it would have <BR>just taken over the ships of the enemy and would have been <BR>controllable. To use your analogy - say the US military was working <BR>on a bio weapon (maybe even defensively) and someone (be it an enemy, <BR>terrorists or criminals) breaks in to steal something. They <BR>accidentally release the bioweapon which propagates and spreads <BR>across the USA and onto the rest of the world by air travel etc. On <BR>that basis, would the US have accepted that it&nbsp; no longer believes in <BR>itself? Virus was an incomplete weapon designed to end a war, a <BR>weapon which was accidentally released. Lucan's super weapons project <BR>was design to give his faction a sufficient edge to defeat those who <BR>he (as Emperor, and legitimately so in his eyes) saw a traitors to <BR>the Imperium. It wasn't designed to destroy the Imperium, Black War <BR>or not.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;I agree that the Regency would never treat the RC as a partner. IMTU, the<BR>&gt;Regency will become another Imperium (or reestablish the old one), and begin<BR>&gt;a crusade similiar to the Pacification Campaigns. However, this would<BR>&gt;understandably take many years, as the Quarantine will not even be lifted<BR>&gt;until the Regency citizens feel safe. This allows the RC (With significant<BR>&gt;Hiver help) to expand corward. When they meet, who knows how it will turn<BR>&gt;out.<BR><BR>The Quarantine starts to be partially lifted in 1202 Imperial <BR>(Regency Source Book). Admittedly this is one way, but it is an <BR>opening to allow TL14+ craft out into the wilds.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I agree with you here again. Virus would not be forgotten, which is what<BR>&gt;makes the TNE future better then simply continuing from the 1116 date.<BR>&gt;Virus was the cost of war, and the price for ignoring the Imperial social<BR>&gt;contract. Traveller conflicts are marked with a lack of consequence, simply<BR>&gt;because of their size, and the Imperium's overwhelming strength.&nbsp; There<BR>&gt;simply are no long lasting horrors from any other Traveller conflict.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt;restored Imperium would be a better Imperium, simply due to the trials of<BR>&gt;Virus.<BR><BR>Have you actually read _Hard Times_? If you haven't you are missing <BR>the fact that there is definitely a lasting effect from the 2nd Civil <BR>War. Likewise 'Arrival Vengeance' makes this pretty clear of the <BR>state of the Imperium and the lasting impact. Both MT supplements <BR>make it apparent that there are massive long term impacts of the war. <BR>If you haven't read these I can start to understand where you are <BR>coming from - you've missed on on possibly two of the best Traveller <BR>supplements ever. The 1116-1129 war is devastating because it is the <BR>first war since those against the Chanestin and Interstellar <BR>Confederacy that has actually really impacted on the heart of <BR>Imperial society and destroyed trade. It more than breaks the social <BR>contract - it destroys the lifeblood of the worlds themselves by <BR>smashing trade.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Even if the intelligent virus recovered (IIRC) in Vampire Fleets is<BR>&gt; &gt; accepted by the RC, it isn't likely to be easily accepted by the<BR>&gt; &gt; Regency (admittedly, they have been studying Virus). It's not going<BR>&gt; &gt; to make a real difference to the industrial capacity of the RC, or<BR>&gt; &gt; its power projection abilities.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; True. Still, it shows a possibility for later artificial citizens in<BR>&gt;whatever interstellar societies exist. Furthermore, Vampire Rogues could<BR>&gt;then become a future issue.<BR><BR>True but irrelevant to whether the Regency will be able to dominate the RC.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; The Hiver Federation survived relatively intact, and we all know they<BR>&gt;love to meddle.<BR><BR>I'm not going to argue about the Hivers (as my references aren't to <BR>hand) - ISTR that they had had space flight stopped or curtailed for <BR>a significant period too?<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Besides, recovery fuels further recovery. As it stands in<BR>&gt;TNE, building a new tech base is not the best way to increase TL. Instead,<BR>&gt;going out and finding it is much easier. As the core worlds of any pocket<BR>&gt;empire (or the RC) rises in TL, then the recovered goods will go to the<BR>&gt;worlds in the next "layer" of their sphere of influence, as the core worlds<BR>&gt;are now capable of production. It has already happened in the RC.<BR><BR><BR><BR>That isn't rebuilding a sustainable culture - it's grave robbing and <BR>makes the RC no better than the TEDs it seeks to displace. In fact, <BR>it acts in much the same way as them. It those goods are used to <BR>develop industry then, yes, it will help. But if they are just <BR>adapted or used it isn't very much use.<BR>Once the Regency Quarantine allows ships out there is somewhere for <BR>that overheating economy to go to, and expansion is inevitable.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;They are<BR>&gt;already constructing new ships.&nbsp; Once they reach a sector in size, they<BR>&gt;should have a credible fleet unit. (This is simply because the Vampires<BR>&gt;still control line ships, so if the RC survives to that size, then it seems<BR>&gt;reasonable to assume they have enough assests to defend themselves.)<BR><BR>I suspect most line ships are gone, thanks to suiciders and <BR>doomslayers etc. None of the TNE supplements (beyond Battle Rider) <BR>really present any big ships. And a full functional TL15/16 force is <BR>a big difference to a TL15 80 year old relic using slaves to control <BR>it. A TNE TL10/11/12 fleet would be trashed by a Regency TL 15/16 <BR>fleet.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I would like to think TNE could contribute to the future of Traveller. I<BR>&gt;feel its products are amongst the best produced (content subject aside)<BR>&gt;Traveller products ever. Although it destroyed much of value (Which, again,<BR>&gt;I myself lament), I do not believe it necessarily ends any further<BR>&gt;developement.<BR><BR>That may be. (And I don't believe that I actually said that TNE in <BR>any way ended any further development.) But now I'll take you back to <BR>my original comments:<BR><BR>&gt; 2) I was responding to a post that asked us what we would like to see<BR>&gt; &gt; in a modified Traveller - the original stuff was talking about<BR>&gt; &gt; decanonising (effectively) all of Traveller post 1116. *I* would like<BR>&gt; &gt; to see the impact on Known Space if the Imperium collapsed a la Hard<BR>&gt; &gt; Times.<BR><BR>I don't want to see post 1116 decanonised. I don't even want to see <BR>post 1129 decanonised (even though I have severe problems with <BR>Virus). TNE has been published and is part of canon and has some good <BR>material (FFS1, Survival Margin, Path of Tears forex).<BR><BR>But I still reserve the right to comment that *I* would like (and <BR>indeed would have preferred) to have seen a future post 1129 with no <BR>Virus and an ongoing collapse thanks to Hard Times. The potential is <BR>there for conflict, expansion, exploration, growth, holding back the <BR>tide - all in a universe more like the existing Traveller one but <BR>different all the same.<BR><BR>Telling me that my opinion is 'pointless, and has been done before' <BR>isn't exactly the most endearing approach, especially when the 3I <BR>collapse until 1129 had not been done before in Traveller, a point <BR>which the MT notes on the 'Final War'/2nd Civil War make quite clear.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>THIS POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE OPINIONS OF BITS UK LIMITED<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:15:02 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:10:42 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Well, it also has problems related to exhaust vaporizing cities. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What if most of the plasma was caught after it provided the thrust and <BR>&gt; recycled.<BR><BR>Consider that you accelerate by accelerating reaction mass the opposite<BR>direction. To catch and recycle this exhaust, you have to decelerate it<BR>again to rest relative to your ship.&nbsp; You get no net thrust. <BR><BR>This is just the inverse of the classic silliness of making your sailboat<BR>move by installing a fan blowing forward on the sternpost.&nbsp; Or, for that<BR>matter, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.<BR><BR>&gt; Or what if we just doubled the expenditure of fuel?<BR><BR>The more fuel you make it use, the safer the exhaust is, but the fewer<BR>g-hours of fuel you can carry on a given ship.&nbsp; And most people would<BR>agree (IMHO) that the 20-40 g-hours typical of HEPlaR designs is already<BR>pushing the lower limit of mission flexibility necessary for a Traveller-<BR>like feel.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:15:38 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Does that mean I should cancel my date this evening with the Whore of<BR>&gt;Babylon?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Funny... I don't remember anyone like that from the show. What episode was <BR>that?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:17:53 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 18:19 -0400 23/10/00, "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;'Watch Volker open the can of worms, children'.<BR>&gt;Oops! Did I do that? Sorry ;-)<BR><BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:34:32 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Does that mean I should cancel my date this evening with the Whore of<BR>&gt; &gt;Babylon?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Funny... I don't remember anyone like that from the show. What episode was<BR>&gt; that?<BR><BR>What?&nbsp; You mean you haven't seen the B5-Xenophile CCG crossover? ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:31:37 -0400<BR>From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>Hash: SHA1<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:07:39 CDT<BR>&gt;From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So, does Marc rule a type A, B, or D government?<BR><BR>Actually, type 5 -- Feudal Technocracy....<BR>- - ---<BR>==============================================================<BR>Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com<BR>System Administrator&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK<BR>IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Current PGPKey Fingerprint (18 July 2000)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; E20D 4E41 533E AAD0 60B8&nbsp; 66DD 2908 F6E4 923F C225<BR>Public Key: http://www.waypointcentral.net/Team/Jonathan/Keys/<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "As above, so below; as below, so above."<BR><BR>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use &lt;http://www.pgp.com&gt;<BR><BR>iQA/AwUBOfTKWCkI9uSSP8IlEQIoIgCfY6uMrF7FEpPz8OB8yidCEOjWIq8An1wF<BR>1TtlrTTO4W2GvlNTzAasASjW<BR>=r47o<BR>- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:39:42 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:31:37 -0400<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>&gt;Hash: SHA1<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:07:39 CDT<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;So, does Marc rule a type A, B, or D government?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, type 5 -- Feudal Technocracy....<BR><BR>About that...<BR><BR>I know that there was once a long argument over what a Feudal Technocracy <BR>is. What was eventually decided upon?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:49:14 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>I recently came across this neat article on the web regarding "20 ways the<BR>world could end":<BR><BR>http://www.discover.com/oct_00/featworld.html<BR><BR>The one that caught my eye was the "collapse of the vacuum".&nbsp; It seems<BR>that just after the big bang empty space was full of energy, but it was<BR>unstable.&nbsp; This unstable vacuum collapsed into the form we have now.<BR>However, there's no saying whether what we have now is the _most_ stable<BR>form of vacuum.&nbsp; And...well I might as well quote the article:<BR><BR>" It is possible that another, even more stable kind of vacuum exists,<BR>however. As the universe expands and cools, tiny bubbles of this new kind<BR>of vacuum might appear and spread at nearly the speed of light. The laws<BR>of physics would change in their wake, and a blast of energy would dash<BR>everything to bits."<BR><BR>Cool!&nbsp; Okay, so, as any gamer worth his salt is thinking by now: How do we<BR>turn this into a weapon?!&nbsp; If one could speed the process locally to<BR>produce and expanding bubble of collapsed vaccuum, that would make a<BR>terrifying trans-stellar weapon of mass destruction. Star-trigger,<BR>Schmar-trigger!&nbsp; Of course, it's a MAD weapon, at least in the long<BR>term...<BR><BR>The only problem is, it's not immediately obvious how you trick some<BR>volume of the universe into thinking that the whole thing is "cooler" than<BR>it really is. :-)<BR><BR>This would also make a good Empire-wrecking disaster, if you needed one.<BR><BR>Thoughts?<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:49:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:10:48 -0500<BR>&gt; From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Yes, but again, the question isn't what causes the collapse, but rather,<BR>&gt; &gt; why it lasts seven centuries.<BR><BR>As has been pointed out, I dropped a millenium here.&nbsp; Make that<BR>*seventeen* centuries.&nbsp; The same interval as that spearating the<BR>establishment of the Eastern Roman Empire from today.&nbsp; Seems rather a long<BR>time for not much to be happening. :) <BR><BR>&gt; One possible explanation is that most early attempts at rebuilding large<BR>&gt; interstellar states ran into each other too soon.&nbsp; With rough parity<BR>&gt; between such pocket empires, they tended to fight each other to<BR>&gt; exhaustion (thus delaying any rebuilding in that sector for another<BR>&gt; century or so).&nbsp; Those interstellar polities that avoid this pitfall<BR>&gt; tended to be relatively non-expansionist (such as the Old Earth Union). <BR>&gt; The Sylean Federation, OTOH, was able to grow large enough to ensure<BR>&gt; that it overmatched any nearby opponents.<BR><BR>Hrm...I can almost buy that.&nbsp; Note, however, that it doesn't look much<BR>like the LN as traditionally described -- a period of isolation, without a<BR>lot of interstellar travel going on.&nbsp; Of course, one could say the same<BR>thing about the popular impression of our own 'Dark Ages' versus the<BR>reality of the period...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Rule one:&nbsp; Never make peace with anything named out of the Book of<BR>&gt; &gt; Revelations. :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Does that mean I should cancel my date this evening with the Whore of<BR>&gt; Babylon?<BR><BR>Heck no!&nbsp; Say hi to her for me, she's a kick.&nbsp; Just don't expect it to be<BR>peaceful.&nbsp; Oh, and she loves lamb for dinner. :)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:16:16 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; From: Bruce Johnson <BR>&gt; _most_ of 'em! After all we've backed them up to the cosmos via<BR>&gt; broadcast...sure _someone_ out there will take note of our, err,<BR>&gt; documentaries... ;-)<BR><BR>Don't you mean "historical records"? :-)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:15:36 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; From: Stephen Tempest<BR>&gt; How many more Covenants of Suffren lurk out there in the Wilds,<BR>&gt; ready to be recontacted?<BR><BR>Actually, judging from Path of Tears, which may not cover a "typical" area,<BR>there are actually quite a few little "Pocket Empires" out there. <BR>Unfortunately, most of them are TED-states, or other unfriendlies, like<BR>Kide or Solee.&nbsp; The RC would probably end up wiping out a whole bunch of<BR>actual or potential interstellar states, rather than working with them. <BR>The other major chunk of "starfaring" worlds are the ones where the<BR>surviving Free Traders hang out or come from.<BR><BR>Of course, the starfaring society that covers the biggest area in that<BR>setting is the Guild.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:15:33 -0700<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Paul Harris wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I've had the Players play themselves.... they hate it... really intensly<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; loathe it.... they really don't like being themselves... they wanna be<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; people mush more skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; But some of us *are* skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR><BR>And then there are those of use who don't want to have to play<BR>a weaker version of ourselves just to fit within the campaign.<BR>(Yeah, it was a superheroes campaign...&nbsp; So?)<BR><BR>:-)<BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:05:00 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, type 5 -- Feudal Technocracy....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; About that...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I know that there was once a long argument over what a Feudal Technocracy<BR>&gt; is. What was eventually decided upon?<BR><BR>That Feudal Technocracy may or, on the other hand, may not exist as a<BR>government form. <BR><BR>If it does exist it may be more technocratic than feudal, or it might be<BR>the other way around.<BR><BR>But everyone finally agreed that it was mauve. <BR><BR>Definitely mauve...not gray, not purple, but mauve. And relational...it<BR>has to be relational, preferably SQL. ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:10:31 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Craig Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Does that mean I should cancel my date this evening with the Whore of<BR>&gt; &gt; Babylon?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Heck no!&nbsp; Say hi to her for me, she's a kick.&nbsp; Just don't expect it to be<BR>&gt; peaceful.&nbsp; Oh, and she loves lamb for dinner. :)<BR>&gt; <BR>Yeah, but I hate that mint sauce.<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:19:39 -0600 (MDT)<BR>From: pengebos@nmsu.edu<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;So how do we account for almost a millenium of collapse?&nbsp; What were the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;high-tech, self-sufficient worlds doing through seven centuries of Night?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Or more to the point, why *weren't* any of them doing seemingly obvious<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;things?<BR><BR>I have always felt that there were no self sufficient high tech worlds.<BR>It's kind of like the modern world, if the US and Japan were to go down,<BR>they'd drag the rest of the world into a (short) dark ages.&nbsp; But it was<BR>worse when the 1I went away, because eveyone was dependent on the Vilani<BR>mega corporations for everything.&nbsp; Need the Giant gizmo fixed - well it's<BR>property of Gushameg (I can't remember the Vilani Bureax names), and the<BR>only technician they have trained to two worlds away - and theres no<BR>interstellar travel, and he didn't train a replacement, because that would<BR>be giving away corporate secrets.<BR><BR>In my games, I have usually assumed thaat the reason why independant free<BR>traders don't go around bootstrapping lower tech worlds is the 3I won't<BR>let them.&nbsp; If the world wants to have a higher tech level, they are going<BR>to have to figure out how to do it locally.&nbsp; So that if the 3I were to go<BR>away (can you say rebellion?&nbsp; :)&nbsp; ), there would not be another long<BR>night.&nbsp; And you don't want to see the Tech Police - They make the marines<BR>look like wimps.<BR><BR>Peter Engebos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;pengebos@nmsu.edu&gt;<BR>T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;degaalth@prodigy.net&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; http://www.geocities.com/degaalth/<BR><BR>&nbsp; "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser<BR>beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say<BR>we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for our fire control system"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:25:45 -0400<BR>From: "Mike Peters" &lt;Travelleri@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR><BR>Couldn't resist this one.<BR><BR>One of my faveorite Traveller illos was of an over weight gentle being in a<BR>loud Hawian (sic?) shirt firing a weapon I always figured for a snub pistol,<BR>or some such. It was in one of the early JTAS'. Now, I hate to say it, but<BR>given a pair of shorts and a hawian shirt I could model for that pic.<BR><BR>Mike ( yeah, I know but that last fry was LONELY!)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Charles Collin" &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>To: "Traveller Mailing List" &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:29 AM<BR>Subject: Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; "I've had the Players play themselves.... they hate it... really intensly<BR>&gt; loathe it.... they really don't like being themselves... they wanna be<BR>&gt; people mush more skilled, powerful, and generally heroic....."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Geez, some people have such low self-esteem!&nbsp; Just cuz we're a bunch of<BR>&gt; pasty over-weight (or skinny)&nbsp; myopic introverts doesn't mean we can't be<BR>&gt; heros!*&nbsp; Why, my skills in programming Matlab alone could save the world<BR>&gt; many times over!!!&nbsp; :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt; Charles C. (man, what was in that coffee?)<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;and again&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:29:58 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Re: Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR><BR>Mike Peters wrote:<BR>&gt; One of my faveorite Traveller illos was of an over weight gentle being in a<BR>&gt;loud Hawaiian shirt firing a weapon I always figured for a snub pistol,<BR>&gt;or some such. It was in one of the early JTAS'. Now, I hate to say it, but<BR>&gt;given a pair of shorts and a hawian shirt I could model for that pic.<BR><BR>That pic is also in 'The Traveller Book' and is one of my favorite visual demos of the difference between typical PCs in Trav vs *D&amp;D (or pretty much every other RPG, except 'Call of Cthulhu').<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:30:29 -0500 (CDT)<BR>From: Gregory Carl Kettler &lt;gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I know that there was once a long argument over what a Feudal Technocracy <BR>&gt; is. What was eventually decided upon?<BR><BR>It's like a technologically elevated dictatorship, only with better public<BR>relations people.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3205<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:32:29 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:31:41 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA04663;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:30:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:30:35 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA04618<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:30:35 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:30:35 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010240030.UAA04618@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3206<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: CT/MT careers<BR>The Old "Feudal Technocracy" Question (was: D20 Task Resolution)<BR>Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>New Serial Traveller Story<BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived...<BR>Video Games in the 3i<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:34:53 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>I'd venture to guess that the reason it lasted so long is because Asimov had<BR>already made decent arguements for the idea over twenty-five years prior to<BR>GDW using the idea in Traveller.<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;&gt;&lt;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:01:52 -0500<BR>From: tim@premier.net<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>Craig Points outs<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes, but again, the question isn't what causes the collapse, but rather,<BR>&gt; why it lasts seven centuries.&nbsp; All it takes is one self-sufficient<BR>&gt; high-tech world per sector to re-establish trade and government over most<BR>&gt; of the ex-Imperium in less than a century.&nbsp; And after everybody has been<BR>&gt; in a horrible depression for a few decades, with marginal worlds watching<BR>&gt; their food and air supplies teetering on the brink, my guess is that most<BR>&gt; worlds will be really, really glad when the expanding mercantilist state<BR>&gt; reaches them.&nbsp; After all, this is the model of what happened when Sylea<BR>&gt; became the Third Imperium.&nbsp; What stopped it from happening for nearly a<BR>&gt; millenium?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>One way to look at this is to examine the Middle Ages.&nbsp; Whoes to <BR>say the "Long Night" didnt see many attempts to make a new <BR>Empire, or that it took only a few years for ROM to fall a part into <BR>the "Long Night."&nbsp; Just look at the Darians to see how other races <BR>and peoples had break throughts.<BR><BR>During the Middle Ages we have the rise and fall <BR>Charlegmagne/Carolingian Empire.&nbsp; The Eastern Empire, Muslims, <BR>and my favorite the Normans.&nbsp; All of these played important roles <BR>during the "Middle Ages."&nbsp; I am not even counting other civilizations <BR>such as the China, India, Japan, all of which had their own ups and <BR>downs.<BR><BR>The way I see it is that the "Long Night" is from Sylea's point of <BR>view.&nbsp; No Empire reached them so they just saw the period as the <BR>"Long Night."&nbsp;&nbsp; Sylea just did what all the others failed to do so <BR>their history won.&nbsp; This is why you have the the Rim Wars and <BR>other cultural problems.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Tim Reynolds<BR>tim@premier.net <BR>225-334-5063<BR>www.premier.net/~tim<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through<BR>the air, invisible<BR>And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.<BR>In that case, the prize went to the best dancer<BR>Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:56:45 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "SD Mooney" &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:09 PM<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 16:40 -0400 23/10/00, "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Virus has still happened with a total obliteration of Known Space<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cultures as we know them.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; While it is true that Virus seriously disrupted the established<BR>&gt; &gt;cultures, (Being a TNE fan myself, I still feel this is the most serious<BR>&gt; &gt;loss to the game. I love CT too.) there are a few mitigating<BR>circumstances.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 'Seriously disrupted'? It destroyed *everything* except the Domain of<BR>&gt; Deneb, the Aslan trans-rift colonies, The Zhodani Consulate and some<BR>&gt; of the Vargr!!!!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, aside from the Hivers and several well documented Pocket Empires<BR>(Like the Hub Worlds. who actually have a pretty good grasp of<BR>Ershur/Massilia) that is true. "Seriously disrupted" was simply an<BR>expression, and perhaps not the most descriptive of the situation. However,<BR>I think it is worthwhile to note that the Wilds are really not completely<BR>hopeless. For instance, take a look at Planet III's Old Expanses software.<BR>If you compare it to the Sector's original data, it is true that they are<BR>much reduced. Indeed, nearly any world that is not inherintly life bearing<BR>is now dead. However, a brief examination of the remaining tech codes shows<BR>a good number of TL7-9, and a few TL 10. These are the tech levels needed to<BR>begin interstellar society. (In fact, a subsector taken at random, Shenk,<BR>had 15 still inhabited worlds, down from 30. Of these, 6 were within the TL<BR>7-9 range. Unfortunatly, starports of any kind existed on only 5 worlds.)<BR>This means, either Virus is not as devistating as it seems it should be,<BR>there are some useful countermeasures against it, or the last eighty years<BR>of recovery have been fairly productive. Now, it is true that because the<BR>Old Expanses is so far from Core that there decline will be less then we<BR>would expect. Indeed, the further coreward you go, the worse you would<BR>expect the collapse to be. However, by the same token, as you travel<BR>Rimward, the condition improves.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;First, the Spinward Marches remain pretty much the same, minus a little<BR>&gt; &gt;power shift here and there. Second, as I have posted earlier, Virus<BR>allows<BR>&gt; &gt;the Regency to exist simply because it solves all of the problems faced<BR>by<BR>&gt; &gt;Deneb during the Rebellion.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't follow you here - AFAIK the fact that the Regency survives is<BR>&gt; due to the fact that they create the quarantine (no matter how<BR>&gt; believable that may or not be)?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, this is true. However, the Quarentine only saves them from Virus.<BR>Virus itself provides relief from the other threats clearly detailed in MT.<BR><BR>"Assuming he can solve the solve the Aslan and Vargr problems, any<BR>remaining problems are minor." Rebellion Sourcebook, page 57.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Indeed, the Spinward Marches map provided in the MT boxed set shows<BR>clearly that most of Aramis and some of Regina subsectors are held by the<BR>Vargr, and rimward, the Aslan hold virtually all of Glisten subsector, as<BR>well as significant portions of Trin's Veil and the few Imperial holdings in<BR>District 268. What is more, the inside cover of the Rebellion sourcebook<BR>shows two whole subsectors of Deneb sector in Vargr hands, with Trojan Reach<BR>and Reft sectors pretty much abandoned. IMO, we also cannot entirely rule<BR>out Zhodani operations. While they are clearly unwilling to fight another<BR>war with Deneb, at the same time the Rebellion sourcebook points out Zhodani<BR>probability in aiding external threats to the domain, as well as mounting<BR>their own covert ops.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Third, MT was already disintergrating 3I at an<BR>&gt; &gt;alarming rate.&nbsp; With the kind of war described in MT, Imperial culture<BR>was<BR>&gt; &gt;dying anyway.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually not really - Deneb, Daibei, Margaret, Strephon and even<BR>&gt; Lucan had no real major cultural shifts. Dulinor tried change and was<BR>&gt; facing resistance internally. Bzrk was still ArchDuke even though he<BR>&gt; performed a UDI. The Imperium *was* fragmenting, but the culture was<BR>&gt; still there. Virus on the other hand disintegrated the 3I at an even<BR>&gt; more 'alarming rate'. In maybe 5 years it achieved what 15 years of<BR>&gt; all out war didn't. The end of Imperial culture in the bulk of the<BR>&gt; 11000 systems, plus the collapse of all other states in contact.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; First of all, the major culture shifts are assumed to already have<BR>occured by MT. Strephon in Survival Margin says Imperial culture has<BR>disappeared, leaving "distinct cultures a sector or more in size, with<BR>little, if any loyalty to the throne." (pg. 6) Furthermore, the fragmenting<BR>of the 3I has more profound impacts on the culture. For one, the Solomani<BR>Confederation's invasion made it possible for Solomani supporters to rise<BR>up, where before they may have been hidden among Imperial mainstream. Much<BR>of the Rimward territories would end up in Solomani hands, and I would guess<BR>that the change would not be that difficult as many of those worlds were<BR>Solomani in culture already. What is more, Bzrk leaves because of percieved<BR>(and realized) anti-Vargr sentiments within the Moot. Then, he joins the<BR>Julian Protectorate, the nation that resisted Martin's pacification<BR>campaign. Becasue the Julian Protectorate was never integrated, they likely<BR>maintained more of the 2I and 1I culture. Now, it is true that the 15 year<BR>rebellion is not enough to change the culture of an entire domain<BR>completely, but I am sure Julian influence played some role. More important,<BR>however, is how Bzrk more fully integrated Vargr and Human society within<BR>his domain. Again, once the Rebellion started, Antares was already different<BR>from the "Imperial Main." This is because the Imperial Main, as was inferred<BR>by Strephon, was little beyond the Domain of Sylea.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's a fantastic and audacious move on GDW's part which impressed me<BR>&gt; from one perspective, and on the other left me feeling angry because<BR>&gt; all the effort of Hard Times era campaigns was wiped away.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I agree with you completely. I feel it is always a loss when a setting<BR>is destroyed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) I was responding to a post that asked us what we would like to see<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; in a modified Traveller - the original stuff was talking about<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; decanonising (effectively) all of Traveller post 1116. *I* would like<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; to see the impact on Known Space if the Imperium collapsed a la Hard<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Times.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, for one that seems kind of pointless. I mean, it has been done<BR>&gt; &gt;before. How many Imperia will we have collapse under its own weight<BR>before<BR>&gt; &gt;moving in a new direction.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In Traveller? Maybe you could argue that the 2nd Imperium did, but not the<BR>3I.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Ziru Sirka was collapsing through it's bureaucracy and the fact<BR>&gt; that it stagnates due to technological rigidity and communication<BR>&gt; issues; however, it's fleets were smashed by the Terran forces, and<BR>&gt; the Vargr raiding to Coreward. The Terran Confederation was absorbed<BR>&gt; into the Rule of Man under a military coup. This second Imperium<BR>&gt; collapses when the Terrans cannot manage the economy of worlds who<BR>&gt; they try to culturally absorb.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So the First Imperium is weakened and conquered by the barbarians at<BR>&gt; its gates. The second Imperium takes that weakened state but<BR>&gt; inexperienced and stretched undermines the strengths of the culture<BR>&gt; and the economy with it. The economy fails when trade can no longer<BR>&gt; be guaranteed in -1776.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The 2I and the 1I both collapsed into itself. As you have already<BR>detailed the reasons behind the 2I, I will instead look to the Ziru Sirka.<BR>Although the Terran victories were impressive, the true reasons for the 1I<BR>defeat were a little more complicated. GT Rim of Fire offers a reasonable<BR>explanation for much of the events. As you know, the Terrans were fighting<BR>only one small province. However, the fleets of which were engaged coreward<BR>in a civil war. Minor, though impressive Terran victories marked the first<BR>several IWs, until the Vilani sent their main fleet, which is later defeated<BR>due to Terran inginuity. However, the factors that led to the Terran<BR>victories were more intricate.&nbsp; The Vilani caste system, which they imposed<BR>on their subject races (including the Vegans, who would later rise up<BR>against the ZS) completly collapsed, and the Terrans were seen as<BR>liberators. Rather then resist the "invading" Terrans, they rose up against<BR>the Vilani, or at the least sat it out. An empire marked with civil war,<BR>with its provincial government dedicated to that coreward war seems ripe for<BR>internal collapse. Especially when you combine the caste system<BR>inadequetcies and the stagnation in main Vilani science and culture.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Third Imperium is not collapsing under its own weight. It's like<BR>&gt; a spinning wheel which has the core blown apart. It spins and<BR>&gt; violently destroys itself as it tears itself apart.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I believe that to be correct in the beginning. However, and this I have<BR>not thought on much, but if the situation contiunes to its natural (sans<BR>Virus) completion, I wonder if several of the factions would not collapse in<BR>on itself. (Dulinor's already shows such signs, as early as 1120)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You may feel that my wanting to see the collapse of the Imperium<BR>&gt; under _Hard Times_ instead of Virus is pointless. However, I reserve<BR>&gt; the right to want to see it myself for the changes *I* would like to<BR>&gt; see. And I don't really think that this has been done before - the<BR>&gt; Second Imperium collapsed and there was nothing else to fill the gap.<BR>&gt; A collapsed, factional 3I in the state described in _Hard Times_ has<BR>&gt; 6 potential enemies - major polities controlling multiple sectors<BR>&gt; that are all intact and may well want to expand into the power<BR>&gt; vacuum. Not, to my mind, "pointless and done before".<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I feel that there is a certain extent of repetition to that line of<BR>events. However, I have not considered this situation as fully as you have,<BR>so I concede the likelyhood that I am in error. (To a degree)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Now, I understand that real societies most often<BR>&gt; &gt;crumble from within, which I feel TNE preserves nicely. Essentially,<BR>Virus<BR>&gt; &gt;shows the extremes to which several of the factions were willing to go to<BR>&gt; &gt;win the war. However, when one side or the other is willing to design and<BR>&gt; &gt;later deploy such a weapon, it simply shows that they no longer believe<BR>in<BR>&gt; &gt;the Imperium as it was (and should be). Releasing Virus would be like the<BR>US<BR>&gt; &gt;nuking Georgia. Only if you have already accepted that your opponents are<BR>&gt; &gt;not your countrymen can you use such a draconian weapon. And MT clearly<BR>&gt; &gt;showed that events had deteriorated that far.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Lucan is a mad man - or a psychotic maniac. Virus is a weapon under<BR>&gt; development that was not meant to be released. It was an accident<BR>&gt; when a military research centre was raided. As planned it would have<BR>&gt; just taken over the ships of the enemy and would have been<BR>&gt; controllable. To use your analogy - say the US military was working<BR>&gt; on a bio weapon (maybe even defensively) and someone (be it an enemy,<BR>&gt; terrorists or criminals) breaks in to steal something. They<BR>&gt; accidentally release the bioweapon which propagates and spreads<BR>&gt; across the USA and onto the rest of the world by air travel etc. On<BR>&gt; that basis, would the US have accepted that it&nbsp; no longer believes in<BR>&gt; itself? Virus was an incomplete weapon designed to end a war, a<BR>&gt; weapon which was accidentally released. Lucan's super weapons project<BR>&gt; was design to give his faction a sufficient edge to defeat those who<BR>&gt; he (as Emperor, and legitimately so in his eyes) saw a traitors to<BR>&gt; the Imperium. It wasn't designed to destroy the Imperium, Black War<BR>&gt; or not.<BR>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I would have to disagree with you on two points. One, I have never seen<BR>any indication Lucan did not intend to use the weapon. In fact, it makes<BR>more sense to assume he was simply waiting unitl he had a way to control it.<BR>Furthermore, I think to accuse Lucan of being the only one to develope<BR>superweapons would be an injustice. I find it likely that the major factions<BR>were no doubt in development of new weapons in the hopes of winning the<BR>throne. Still, even if none of the other factions were developing doomsday<BR>weapons, the loss of the Imperium in the mind of the citizen and the<BR>combatants was just as complete, even without Virus. In their bid to control<BR>the Imperium, Dulinor and Lucan (at least) were engaged in direct warfare<BR>against the civil populace. What is more, their campaigns on and for the<BR>High Population worlds as described in the Rebellion sourcebook amount to<BR>little more then barbarism. Even Dulinor, the champion of the masses, is<BR>willing to wage war against the citizens of the Imperium. "Beyond a certain<BR>point, I must free my admirals to do what they must do." (Survival Margin,<BR>24) It is this willingness to war on Imperial citizens (And let us not<BR>forget, Dulinor went to Omicron to get Lucan's superweapon for himself) that<BR>marks the true death of the 3I. (It is, coincidently, Strephon's later<BR>understanding and regret of this circumstance (Survival Margin, page 23 and<BR>51) that makes me a Strephon supporter.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I agree that the Regency would never treat the RC as a partner. IMTU, the<BR>&gt; &gt;Regency will become another Imperium (or reestablish the old one), and<BR>begin<BR>&gt; &gt;a crusade similiar to the Pacification Campaigns. However, this would<BR>&gt; &gt;understandably take many years, as the Quarantine will not even be lifted<BR>&gt; &gt;until the Regency citizens feel safe. This allows the RC (With<BR>significant<BR>&gt; &gt;Hiver help) to expand corward. When they meet, who knows how it will turn<BR>&gt; &gt;out.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Quarantine starts to be partially lifted in 1202 Imperial<BR>&gt; (Regency Source Book). Admittedly this is one way, but it is an<BR>&gt; opening to allow TL14+ craft out into the wilds.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I agree with you here again. Virus would not be forgotten, which is<BR>what<BR>&gt; &gt;makes the TNE future better then simply continuing from the 1116 date.<BR>&gt; &gt;Virus was the cost of war, and the price for ignoring the Imperial social<BR>&gt; &gt;contract. Traveller conflicts are marked with a lack of consequence,<BR>simply<BR>&gt; &gt;because of their size, and the Imperium's overwhelming strength.&nbsp; There<BR>&gt; &gt;simply are no long lasting horrors from any other Traveller conflict.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt; &gt;restored Imperium would be a better Imperium, simply due to the trials of<BR>&gt; &gt;Virus.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Have you actually read _Hard Times_? If you haven't you are missing<BR>&gt; the fact that there is definitely a lasting effect from the 2nd Civil<BR>&gt; War. Likewise 'Arrival Vengeance' makes this pretty clear of the<BR>&gt; state of the Imperium and the lasting impact. Both MT supplements<BR>&gt; make it apparent that there are massive long term impacts of the war.<BR>&gt; If you haven't read these I can start to understand where you are<BR>&gt; coming from - you've missed on on possibly two of the best Traveller<BR>&gt; supplements ever. The 1116-1129 war is devastating because it is the<BR>&gt; first war since those against the Chanestin and Interstellar<BR>&gt; Confederacy that has actually really impacted on the heart of<BR>&gt; Imperial society and destroyed trade. It more than breaks the social<BR>&gt; contract - it destroys the lifeblood of the worlds themselves by<BR>&gt; smashing trade.<BR>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I am not fortunate to own either of those products, a fact which I am<BR>beginning to regret. If they do indeed detail the consequences of the<BR>Rebellion, I would be most interested in a copy. (Back to ebay I go)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Even if the intelligent virus recovered (IIRC) in Vampire Fleets is<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; accepted by the RC, it isn't likely to be easily accepted by the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Regency (admittedly, they have been studying Virus). It's not going<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; to make a real difference to the industrial capacity of the RC, or<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; its power projection abilities.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; True. Still, it shows a possibility for later artificial citizens in<BR>&gt; &gt;whatever interstellar societies exist. Furthermore, Vampire Rogues could<BR>&gt; &gt;then become a future issue.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; True but irrelevant to whether the Regency will be able to dominate the<BR>RC.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Agreed. Some of our collegues are discussing that situation in another<BR>line.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; The Hiver Federation survived relatively intact, and we all know they<BR>&gt; &gt;love to meddle.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm not going to argue about the Hivers (as my references aren't to<BR>&gt; hand) - ISTR that they had had space flight stopped or curtailed for<BR>&gt; a significant period too?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Actually, as I understand it, Hiver civilization, while damaged, was not<BR>significantly impared. After a relatively short time, their internal<BR>structure was stable and they began to reach outwards. The RC is in Old<BR>Expanses, but the Hivers are much closer to former Solomani space. Makes you<BR>wonder.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Besides, recovery fuels further recovery. As it stands in<BR>&gt; &gt;TNE, building a new tech base is not the best way to increase TL.<BR>Instead,<BR>&gt; &gt;going out and finding it is much easier. As the core worlds of any pocket<BR>&gt; &gt;empire (or the RC) rises in TL, then the recovered goods will go to the<BR>&gt; &gt;worlds in the next "layer" of their sphere of influence, as the core<BR>worlds<BR>&gt; &gt;are now capable of production. It has already happened in the RC.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That isn't rebuilding a sustainable culture - it's grave robbing and<BR>&gt; makes the RC no better than the TEDs it seeks to displace. In fact,<BR>&gt; it acts in much the same way as them. It those goods are used to<BR>&gt; develop industry then, yes, it will help. But if they are just<BR>&gt; adapted or used it isn't very much use.<BR>&gt; Once the Regency Quarantine allows ships out there is somewhere for<BR>&gt; that overheating economy to go to, and expansion is inevitable.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Agreed, but it is not a moral assessment. The fact remains that the<BR>recovery of relic technology makes it possible to procure more. Thus feeding<BR>recovery. But, I agree. The best hope for recovery is an open Quarantine.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;They are<BR>&gt; &gt;already constructing new ships.&nbsp; Once they reach a sector in size, they<BR>&gt; &gt;should have a credible fleet unit. (This is simply because the Vampires<BR>&gt; &gt;still control line ships, so if the RC survives to that size, then it<BR>seems<BR>&gt; &gt;reasonable to assume they have enough assests to defend themselves.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I suspect most line ships are gone, thanks to suiciders and<BR>&gt; doomslayers etc. None of the TNE supplements (beyond Battle Rider)<BR>&gt; really present any big ships. And a full functional TL15/16 force is<BR>&gt; a big difference to a TL15 80 year old relic using slaves to control<BR>&gt; it. A TNE TL10/11/12 fleet would be trashed by a Regency TL 15/16<BR>&gt; fleet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Again, I agree with you here. However, Vampire Fleet does provide Line<BR>ships on the random encounters chart, IIRC. Furthermore, the RC does not<BR>have access to the Regency Navy. They will have to build their own, and<BR>although it may not have BatRons in the traditional sense, it will<BR>nevertheless have to be a credible force to allow for future expansion.<BR>Expansion which, I would point out, is supported by TNE quotes from the<BR>"future."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I would like to think TNE could contribute to the future of Traveller.<BR>I<BR>&gt; &gt;feel its products are amongst the best produced (content subject aside)<BR>&gt; &gt;Traveller products ever. Although it destroyed much of value (Which,<BR>again,<BR>&gt; &gt;I myself lament), I do not believe it necessarily ends any further<BR>&gt; &gt;developement.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That may be. (And I don't believe that I actually said that TNE in<BR>&gt; any way ended any further development.) But now I'll take you back to<BR>&gt; my original comments:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 2) I was responding to a post that asked us what we would like to see<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; in a modified Traveller - the original stuff was talking about<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; decanonising (effectively) all of Traveller post 1116. *I* would like<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; to see the impact on Known Space if the Imperium collapsed a la Hard<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Times.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't want to see post 1116 decanonised. I don't even want to see<BR>&gt; post 1129 decanonised (even though I have severe problems with<BR>&gt; Virus). TNE has been published and is part of canon and has some good<BR>&gt; material (FFS1, Survival Margin, Path of Tears forex).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But I still reserve the right to comment that *I* would like (and<BR>&gt; indeed would have preferred) to have seen a future post 1129 with no<BR>&gt; Virus and an ongoing collapse thanks to Hard Times. The potential is<BR>&gt; there for conflict, expansion, exploration, growth, holding back the<BR>&gt; tide - all in a universe more like the existing Traveller one but<BR>&gt; different all the same.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Telling me that my opinion is 'pointless, and has been done before'<BR>&gt; isn't exactly the most endearing approach, especially when the 3I<BR>&gt; collapse until 1129 had not been done before in Traveller, a point<BR>&gt; which the MT notes on the 'Final War'/2nd Civil War make quite clear.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom<BR>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It was not your opinion that I described as (or intended to describe, as<BR>the case may be) pointless. It was, rather, the course of action you were<BR>suggesting as I had the ability to understand it. In any case, a personal<BR>attack was not the intention, and a defensive response was (or would be)<BR>unnecessary. If I have given offense, I apologize. On a side note, I would<BR>be interested in hearing your views on a post Hard Times slide in another<BR>thread, if you have the time and inclination.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:43:39 -0400<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I got this short expansion from somewhere, but can no longer<BR>find my<BR>original source. Given my copy, it is at least 15 years old. It does<BR>work, but many of the expanded careers could really use more skill<BR>tables. Jeff, if you would like to put this on your website, please feel<BR>free, if it is up to your standards. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Roll Characteristics as normal. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Roll enlistment, or draft as desired. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; For each year during the four year term, the character rolls for<BR>survival, position, promotion, and skill eligibility. Rolls for<BR>survival, position and promotion asr as per the service. Skill<BR>eligibility is 6+ on 2D, no modifiers. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The first year in the service the character is assumed to be<BR>undergoing<BR>training. Thus for the first year only, they get two skills<BR>automatically, and no roll for survival, promotion, or position. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Survival. The character is allowed to miss one survival roll. On<BR>the<BR>second missed roll, roll 6+ on 2D to survive but be discharged,<BR>otherwise the character has died. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Position and Promotion. After the Position roll has been made,<BR>it takes<BR>two promotion rolls to gain one level of rank. The character may not<BR>gain more than one level of rank per term.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Skills. As noted, roll 6+ on 2D per year to gain a skill.<BR>Automatic and<BR>cascade are as normal. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reenlistment and Mustering out. This takes place as per the<BR>normal<BR>rules for the service. The character must serve four or more terms in<BR>the service to get a starship. <BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:11:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: The Old "Feudal Technocracy" Question (was: D20 Task Resolution)<BR><BR>To answer your question James J, there was a long time ago a "heated<BR>debate"&nbsp; between two people who had, to oversimplify a bit, focussed on<BR>one or the other of the words in the term "feudal technocracy".&nbsp; One<BR>thought it was basically a high-tech feudal system, the other a<BR>technocratic system involving heirarchy.&nbsp; Somehow they managed to see<BR>those as radically different and incompatible views, even though they were<BR>talking about something as broad and blurry as pinning a whole world's<BR>governmental machinery to a single digit number (in hexadecimal notion). <BR>Well, that's fandom for you.<BR><BR>Just to put it out there, I've always thought the FT designation was a nod<BR>to an ancient Chinese form of government that was (ostensibly at least) a<BR>meritocracy of sorts: Various government positions were filled by those<BR>who scored highest on tests.&nbsp; I've always liked this idea.&nbsp; Who gets to be<BR>Minister of Finance? Why the guy who gets the highest score on the applied<BR>large-scale finance test, of course!&nbsp; Who gets to be Minister of Defence? <BR>The guy who wins a massive round-robin wargame tournament involving<BR>simulations of actually defending the planet! (Okay, it should involve<BR>some longer-term simulations of logistics and such as well)&nbsp; Of course,<BR>there's the question of who gets to design the tests... <BR><BR>It's also important to keep in mind that "technology" in this context need<BR>not mean "high technology".&nbsp; The ability to write or build water-wheels<BR>might be the foundation of a heirarchical system based on expertise just<BR>as easily as the ability to design grav modules.<BR><BR>Ciao,<BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:24:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR><BR>The Oxford Concise Dictionary defines Technocracy as the "Organization<BR>and management of a country's industrial resources by technical experts<BR>for the good of the whole community."<BR><BR>And we all know what "feudal" means, right?<BR><BR>Now, there, wasn't that easy? :-)<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:03:45 -0500<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Actually, type 5 -- Feudal Technocracy....<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; About that...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I know that there was once a long argument over what a Feudal<BR>Technocracy<BR>&gt;&gt; is. What was eventually decided upon?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That Feudal Technocracy may or, on the other hand, may not exist as a<BR>&gt;government form.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If it does exist it may be more technocratic than feudal, or it might<BR>be<BR>&gt;the other way around.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;But everyone finally agreed that it was mauve.<BR><BR>OH GREAT.&nbsp; I live in a Feudal Technocracy.&nbsp; Everyone has told me to<BR>paint this place, now I know why.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:06:37 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: New Serial Traveller Story<BR><BR>Have you ever seen those comics in the sunday newspaper (in America, anyway) <BR>that tell a story two to four frames at a time? Well, I've decided to do <BR>something similar here on the TML. At the end of each of my posts will be a <BR>new, short installment in a continuing Traveller story.<BR><BR>So, what do you think?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 1<BR><BR>Captain Rokodo looked up from his notes and at the blue-eyed, brown-haired <BR>man sitting before his desk. "Thomas Christian Harrison," he said <BR>inquisitively.<BR><BR>"Yes, sir," the man said. Nervously, he began tapping his right foot but <BR>managed to stop before his prospective employer could see his anxiety. <BR>Things hadn't gone too well for him in the past, and he was hoping that <BR>signing on with Rokodo's crew could give him a fresh start.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:07:09 -0700<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT), Kiri Aradia Morgan <BR>&lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I've read about 10 of the stories so far.&nbsp; The writing is really good.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ken Shardik is kind of annoying, though.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And are we ever going to find out why he got so depressed?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's a really fascinating universe.<BR><BR>I read, um, a lot more than 10.&nbsp; More for the SF than for the sex.&nbsp; (Yes, <BR>I'm serious.)<BR><BR>Eventually I got tired of seeing Furry Assumption #N - (Terran) Humans are <BR>the root of all evil, or at least all BadThink.&nbsp; They destroy the <BR>environment, have "prudish" attitudes towards sexuality and various other <BR>subjects, are reactionary and xenophobic, and are in general less admirable <BR>than any other species - ESPECIALLY furries.&nbsp; In some mileux, they create <BR>furries as slaves (see CONQUEST OF THE PLANET OF THE APES) and mistreat <BR>them horribly before conveniently killing themselves off and leaving the <BR>world to its proper inheritors.<BR><BR>Given that all furry-fans I've so far met are themselves Earth humans, I've <BR>always wondered at (and been disturbed by) this pervasive streak of <BR>self-loathing in the literature.&nbsp; Or do they truly consider themselves to <BR>not be part of the hateful species?<BR><BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:09:14 -0700<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR><BR>(Sorry, forgot to add this to my other post before sending it; thought I'd <BR>change the subject line while I was at it.)<BR><BR>Oh yes, and Ken Shardik does have a bad case of Lazarus Long Syndrome, too.&nbsp; ;)<BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:36:21 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived...<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;Kagehira@aol.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 5:41:pm<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; What TV programs would you like to see survive the Long Night?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually that's what operation Longbow was created for.... Strephon was<BR>&gt; called away to watch Survivor......<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Bryan<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>ObTrav: What kind of "Survivor" programs would be made in the 3I?&nbsp; Strand<BR>two parties on different sides of an unpopulated hostile world?<BR><BR>The "Aussie version" of Survivor is called "Treasure Island," where the<BR>winner only gets $AUST50,000 instead of 1-Mil US.&nbsp; There is no voting<BR>someone off, it's a random skill thing (marking locations on a map), and<BR>coded clues have to be deciphered without pen(cil) and paper, to find "free"<BR>food (flour, sugar, salt, and sometimes spices),&nbsp; parts of a map to the<BR>buried treasure, and perhaps a tool or something.&nbsp; But the people are given<BR>orientation to begin with on how to trap and snare food, and have to capture<BR>goats and pigs, and slaughter them if they want red meat!&nbsp; The can of course<BR>fish, but it appears that that takes time away from finding clues and free<BR>food.<BR><BR>Hmmmm...Was "Marooned" really a 3I r/l, fly-on-the-wall adventure show,<BR>secretly recorded for sale to Aslan and Solomani TV stations??&nbsp; But I could<BR>see such media execs stranding two teams on an unpopulated world with<BR>disabled starships (Scout/Courier?), kill and eat groats to survive, while<BR>they find the hidden components to get the vessel working and able to<BR>leave... perhaps with a small cash bonus?&nbsp; Now there's an idea for an<BR>adventure when I restart my Traveller campaign... ;)<BR><BR>- -- The Roc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:38:31 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Video Games in the 3i<BR><BR>There's been talk lately about movies and TV in the Third Imperium, but it's <BR>time that we discuss a more important issue: Video Games!<BR><BR>Think about it: what do people do for entertainment on high-tech worlds. <BR>They play video games! Ditto for when they're in jump.<BR><BR>So, the question is: what kind of video games would be around at TL10-16? <BR>Probably VR, but maybe something even better.<BR><BR>Also, what games would survive the Long Night? Personally, I hope that Rogue <BR>would, along with Diablo II, StarLancer, and Wing Commander.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 2<BR><BR>Rokodo looked back at his notes. Without glancing up again, he said, "It <BR>says here that you flunked out of the merchant academy, then got fired after <BR>only three years of service, without even being commisioned."<BR><BR>Harrison gulped. "I wasn't fired, sir. I was downsized," he said. "And <BR>there's an interesting story behind the academy..."<BR><BR>"Can it," Rokodo interrupted. "The fact remains that you're still regarded <BR>as one of the best in your field. For a twenty-three year old, that is. With <BR>this in consideration, I've decided to hire you on for a trial period of <BR>three jumps. You'll be given working class passage and I reserve the right <BR>to terminate your employment at any time. Agreed?"<BR><BR>"Yes, sir," Harrison said, his heart leaping.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3206<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd04.mx.aol.com (rly-yd04.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.4]) by air-yd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:42:07 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:41:09 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA16560;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:39:15 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:39:04 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA16516<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:39:04 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:39:04 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010240239.WAA16516@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3206<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3207<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: New Serial Traveller Story<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: New Serial Traveller Story<BR>Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR>Re: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR>5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Nobles for Loren<BR>Re: Jump time<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>The Long Night<BR>Re: capitals<BR>Vegan<BR>Re: clothing optional<BR>RE: D20 Task Resolution<BR>RE: Type-L Lab Ship<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:29:42 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New Serial Traveller Story<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Things hadn't gone too well for him in the past, and he was hoping that <BR>&gt; signing on with Rokodo's crew could give him a fresh start.<BR><BR>Why's he complaining? At least he didn't die during chargen!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:01:33 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>James said:<BR>&gt;A call to all TML subscribers: Declare your allegiance today! Are you a<BR>&gt;member of the Old High Guard that is Roman Cubiscism, or do you find your<BR>&gt;calling in the great Polyhedron Reformation?<BR><BR>The player who plays Ervmisbe has two chunky, solid-metal (brass?) dice, at<BR>least 1" on a side. There was some discussion about what would happen if they<BR>were propelled towards someone with any sort of force.<BR><BR>We took to calling them "hit dice".<BR><BR>- - Hyphen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:08:44 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New Serial Traveller Story<BR><BR>&gt;From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: New Serial Traveller Story<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:29:42 -0400<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt;From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Things hadn't gone too well for him in the past, and he was hoping that<BR>&gt; &gt; signing on with Rokodo's crew could give him a fresh start.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Why's he complaining? At least he didn't die during chargen!<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>He was originally created in T4 - he _couldn't_ have died. I consider an <BR>Injury as possibly an career injury instead of a physical one, thereby <BR>allowing for a PC to be fired or downsized with being physically harmed.<BR><BR>I'll post Harrison's stats if I ever find the paper.<BR><BR>Anyway, on with installment #3!<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 3<BR><BR>Captain Rokodo smiled. "In that case," he said, "I formally welcome you as <BR>sales manager aboard the Free Trader Hyner. Serve us well, and you'll go far <BR>- - literally." He stood and extended his hand toward Harrison.<BR><BR>"Oh, thank you, sir!" Harrison said. He stood as well, and shook Rokodo's <BR>hand. "You won't regret it!"<BR><BR>Rokodo's grin faded. Solemnly, and with all seriousness, he replied, "Make <BR>sure that I don't. We leave for Carse in two days. You're dismissed until <BR>then."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 05:33:47 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR><BR>Charles Collin writes:<BR>&gt;To answer your question James J, there was a long time ago a "heated<BR>&gt;debate"&nbsp; between two people who had, to oversimplify a bit, focussed on<BR>&gt;one or the other of the words in the term "feudal technocracy".&nbsp; One<BR>&gt;thought it was basically a high-tech feudal system...<BR><BR>Gee, I wonder where the notion that a "feudal &lt;something&gt; system" was a feudal<BR>system came from.<BR><BR>&gt;Just to put it out there, I've always thought the FT designation was a nod<BR>&gt;to an ancient Chinese form of government that was (ostensibly at least) a<BR>&gt;meritocracy of sorts: Various government positions were filled by those<BR>&gt;who scored highest on tests.&nbsp; I've always liked this idea.<BR><BR>Wonderful idea. Except that it isn't feudal and it isn't a technocracy. But if<BR>you ignore that, it works real fine.<BR><BR>&gt;It's also important to keep in mind that "technology" in this context need<BR>&gt;not mean "high technology".&nbsp; The ability to write or build water-wheels<BR>&gt;might be the foundation of a heirarchical system based on expertise just<BR>&gt;as easily as the ability to design grav modules.<BR><BR>That is clearly implied by the fact that feudal technocracies comes in (almost)<BR>all TLs.<BR><BR>&gt;The Oxford Concise Dictionary defines Technocracy as the "Organization<BR>&gt;and management of a country's industrial resources by technical experts<BR>&gt;for the good of the whole community."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;And we all know what "feudal" means, right?<BR><BR>Right. So a feudal technocracy is a system where the owners of the society's<BR>industrial resources turns over the management of (some of) their holdings to<BR>technical experts in return for their fealthy. Not necessarily the best<BR>qualified expert, but the expert they believe will be most loyal.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hans Rancke<BR>University of Copenhagen<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; rancke@diku.dk<BR>- ------------<BR>&nbsp; "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the<BR>'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:34:04 -0400<BR>From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR><BR>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>Hash: SHA1<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:07:09 -0700<BR>&gt;From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT), Kiri Aradia Morgan<BR>&gt;&lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I've read about 10 of the stories so far.&nbsp; The writing is really good.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Ken Shardik is kind of annoying, though.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;And are we ever going to find out why he got so depressed?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;It's a really fascinating universe.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I read, um, a lot more than 10.&nbsp; More for the SF than for the sex.&nbsp; (Yes,<BR>&gt;I'm serious.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Eventually I got tired of seeing Furry Assumption #N - (Terran) Humans are<BR>&gt;the root of all evil, or at least all BadThink.&nbsp; They destroy the<BR>&gt;environment, have "prudish" attitudes towards sexuality and various other<BR>&gt;subjects, are reactionary and xenophobic, and are in general less admirable<BR>&gt;than any other species - ESPECIALLY furries.&nbsp; In some mileux, they create<BR>&gt;furries as slaves (see CONQUEST OF THE PLANET OF THE APES) and mistreat<BR>&gt;them horribly before conveniently killing themselves off and leaving the<BR>&gt;world to its proper inheritors.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Given that all furry-fans I've so far met are themselves Earth humans, I've<BR>&gt;always wondered at (and been disturbed by) this pervasive streak of<BR>&gt;self-loathing in the literature.&nbsp; Or do they truly consider themselves to<BR>&gt;not be part of the hateful species?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- --------------<BR>&gt;Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>&gt;kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I suppose I should probably answer this, since at the very least <BR>I've blown my cover and revealed myself as an AnthroCon staffer(*)....<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kelly, for what it's worth, furry fandom is much like any other <BR>flavor of SF fandom.&nbsp; There are the majority who get into it because they <BR>have some interest in some aspects -- the art, toons, the costuming, <BR>&amp;c.&nbsp; Then there are those who you could call the 'uberfen,' the 'fan for <BR>fandom's sake.'&nbsp; And then there are the militant folk.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Some furries (you'll notice I'm not generalizing here; we run the <BR>entire spectrum, and sometimes you just can't pin a furry down in a <BR>specific category) are, indeed, very environmentally aware; I would almost <BR>say most are, actually.&nbsp; It's sort of a major characteristic of the <BR>genre.&nbsp; So there is some element of environmentalism, or at least <BR>conservation, within the furry fandom.&nbsp; There're some, though, who really <BR>are 'anti-human,' or rather 'human-critical,' who see humans as the scourge <BR>of the planet.&nbsp; (Frankly, who can blame them, after seeing things like the <BR>Love Canal, Chernobyl, and the hunting to extinction of several hundred <BR>species of animal?)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Again like any flavor of SF fandom, the loudest voices are heard <BR>the most.&nbsp; Some of the very strongly human-critical furries speak loudly <BR>and long(ly) because they have something to say, dammit, and they WILL be <BR>heard!&nbsp; (Now, tell me there aren't some Trav players who fit this bill as <BR>well? =) )<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I guess what I'm trying to say is that some loud voices will <BR>always be heard over the general mutterings and mumblings of the <BR>majority.&nbsp; So furries tend to get some... really, really interesting <BR>reputations.&nbsp; Which can be usually amusing, but also a bit of a bother at <BR>times. =6<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Regarding Pendor, I read some of it, once, but didn't get too <BR>far.&nbsp; It just wasn't the flavor of SF I usually like reading, I guess. =)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Okay, back into Longbow station with me, I guess. =)&nbsp; (Still <BR>working on Trav:Albedo, though....)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (*) Mind you, my opinions do not reflect those of AnthroCon, Inc., <BR>or any of it's other staff; my opinions are my own.<BR>- - ---<BR>==============================================================<BR>Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com<BR>System Administrator&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK<BR>IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Current PGPKey Fingerprint (18 July 2000)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; E20D 4E41 533E AAD0 60B8&nbsp; 66DD 2908 F6E4 923F C225<BR>Public Key: http://www.waypointcentral.net/Team/Jonathan/Keys/<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "As above, so below; as below, so above."<BR><BR>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use &lt;http://www.pgp.com&gt;<BR><BR>iQA/AwUBOfUDLCkI9uSSP8IlEQLCkACeOUb2fMKB6SVjG5WR3MPZZCCYoq0AoMKO<BR>4ZWry71s/CS7WfoaQjfFWSEU<BR>=j6sC<BR>- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:25:10 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>I have two questions arising from reading through the 5FW TNS reports.<BR>Hopefully, Marc and Loren will be able to answer these:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp;&nbsp; Were the original Naval ranks based on the UK model?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I ask this since Santanocheev os a "Lord" - is he a "Lord of the<BR>Admiralty"? If not, what noble rank is a "Lord"?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; As well, he is a "Rear Admiral" while Elphinstone is a "Vice Admiral" -<BR>neither rank exists in CT/MT, but they do sound British.<BR><BR><BR>2.&nbsp;&nbsp; Was the 5FW "played out" by the GDW staff (like Twilight 2000 ==&gt; 2300 AD)<BR>or just made up?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'm asking this because of references such as the ones to Lanth's<BR>"northern" and "southern" continents, and am wondering if you actually created<BR>the world or just made up some nice-sounding descriptive material to fill the<BR>TNS reports. (I don't mind, either way, but if you _did_ have a world map, that<BR>would be a nice adjunct to a JTAS article... I also have a noble, Duke<BR>Rjinnswand Chrystall of Lanth, you make like to use...)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:43:40 -0700<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR><BR>From: Kelly St.Clair &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;(Sorry, forgot to add this to my other post before sending it; thought I'd<BR>change the subject line while I was at it.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Oh yes, and Ken Shardik does have a bad case of Lazarus Long Syndrome, too.<BR>;)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>NOBODY is that sexy to everyone.&nbsp; And I am always amazed/amused when an<BR>author starts writing that a character is soooooooo sexy that even their own<BR>kids/grandkids/fosterkids want to do them, because with or without incest<BR>taboos, the general reaction of kids to their parents having sex with each<BR>other, anyone else, or anyone at all is "EW GROSS!!!" no matter how hot<BR>their parents actually are.<BR><BR>I really enjoy the non-Ken Shardik stories much much more.&nbsp; Ken is such an<BR>*obvious* self-insert.&nbsp; I have self-insert characters in my stories very,<BR>very occasionally, and only as comic relief.&nbsp; (Several people who read my<BR>Vanguard stuff did correctly guess that Miya, the hapa secretary, and<BR>Satoshi, the band manager, were myself and Hiroshi in different guises...<BR>but these two certainly did not come out as the heroes of the piece!)<BR><BR>Ya know, I don't necessarily think wanting to be something you're not is<BR>self-hatred; I think it's alienation.&nbsp; Most furries don't feel like they're<BR>human would be my guess.&nbsp;&nbsp; I certainly never felt that I knew where I<BR>belonged until I went to Japan!<BR><BR>LOL.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp;&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:43:36 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Does that mean I should cancel my date this evening with the Whore of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Babylon?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Funny... I don't remember anyone like that from the show. What episode was <BR>&gt;&nbsp; that?<BR><BR>That was the "Through-the-Looking-Glass Universe" episode where Spock was a <BR>pirate and Invanova was . . . no . . . wait, I'm confused . . .<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:45:35 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205<BR><BR>&gt; One of my faveorite Traveller illos was of an over weight gentle being in a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; loud Hawian (sic?) shirt firing a weapon I always figured for a snub <BR>pistol,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; or some such. It was in one of the early JTAS'. Now, I hate to say it, but<BR>&gt;&nbsp; given a pair of shorts and a hawian shirt I could model for that pic.<BR><BR>Wait'll you see the Cardboard Heroes that come with the GM's Screen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:50:16 EDT<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/23/00 7:15:04 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Gee, he'd hate me. I already have a nice *rugged* rifle, and 1000<BR>rounds of ammo. :-) &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Yeah; but do you bring it to your gaming session?...:-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 05:59:59 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR><BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 004-1106<BR>&gt;Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Santanocheev<BR>&gt;Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; C-in-C, Navy Rear Admiral, Lord<BR>&gt;Sex: Male<BR>&gt;Title: Lord (what does this equate to?)<BR><BR>I don't think it has ever been spelled out, but by analogy with the British<BR>system it should mean a member of the Moot (ie. Imperial baron or above).<BR><BR>&gt;Location: Regina<BR>&gt;Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; C-in-C (Sector Admiral)<BR><BR>&gt;Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Calavan<BR>&gt;Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Army Vice-Marshal, Lord<BR><BR>&gt;Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Adam Bryor<BR>&gt;Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Army Vice-Marshal, Lord<BR>&gt;[...]<BR>&gt;Occupation:&nbsp; &nbsp; Commander of Imperial ground forces (in the Marches? Or just on<BR>&gt;Rhylanor??)<BR><BR>Since there are at least two of them it is propably just Rhylanor (Rhylanor<BR>certainly has enough divisions to rate an officer of rank above O10. The only<BR>trouble here is that the standard character generation system doesn't allow for<BR>ranks above O10.)<BR><BR>And, of course, the 'vice' implies that there is also a full marshal rank,<BR>although that's isn't a given.<BR><BR>&gt;The following are the admirals from the 5FW counters. Since most admirals are<BR>&gt;nobles, I thought I'd include them here.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1&nbsp; &nbsp; Liang&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill -1<BR>&gt;2&nbsp; &nbsp; Shumii&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 1, Skill 1<BR>&gt;3&nbsp; &nbsp; Shanashar&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill 0<BR>&gt;4&nbsp; &nbsp; Mtume&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 0, Skill +2<BR>&gt;5&nbsp; &nbsp; Goolanzoon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 0, Skill +3<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;================================<BR>&gt;NOTE: the guys above were not in the canonical 5FW - heck, they're probably all<BR>&gt;retired by now! (Liang _should_ be!)<BR>&gt;[I want Goolanzoon! Goolanzoon for Sector Admiral!! Oy oy oy...!!&nbsp; (It'll<BR>&gt;probably turn out that he's from Corridor!)]<BR><BR>Exactly. My surmise is that Liang, Shumii, et alii are sector admirals from<BR>Deneb and Corridor, which is why they outrank Santanocheev.<BR><BR>&gt;6&nbsp; &nbsp; Santanocheev&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill +1 (referred to as a Rear Admiral)<BR><BR>Well, he was a rear admiral two years before the FFW when he merely ran Naval<BR>Intelligence/Regina subsector, but at the time of FFW he had been promoted to<BR>sector admiral (over the heads of scores if not hundreds of other admirals).<BR><BR>&gt;7&nbsp; &nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0&nbsp; (referred to as a Vice Admiral)<BR><BR>That's the real discrepancy because Elphinstone is clearly a fairly lowly<BR>admiral even towards the end of the FFW (mucking about in charge of a measly<BR>couple of squadrons) and there must be dozens of higher ranking admirals in the<BR>Marches alone to say nothing about all the fleet admirals the reinforcements<BR>from Deneb and Corridor brings. My preferred explanation is that the FFW is a<BR>boardgame and represents a selection of the forces involved rather than a full<BR>roster in order to make a good _game_. So FFW is not an accurate source of<BR>information. YMMV.<BR><BR>Note that according to the character generation rules there are no such critters<BR>as rear and vice admirals. We had a long discussion about that in connection<BR>with the GT:Imperial Navy pre-playtest (I lost, but I intend to bend the ears of<BR>the new authors and see if I can do better this time around ;-).<BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hans Rancke<BR>University of Copenhagen<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; rancke@diku.dk<BR>- ------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -&nbsp; &nbsp; "You don't know wood from canvas,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and you evidently don't want to learn.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Well, I'll teach you!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Captain Bligh<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:17:05 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump time<BR><BR>Dean Jones writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Jump masking is a side effect of the 100D precipitation rule.<BR><BR>Not if you mean in the sense of an inevitable consequence of the 100D rule. And<BR>additional effect is more like it.<BR><BR>&gt;Obviously, attempting to jump through a hex occupied by a planetary system<BR>&gt;runs the risk of interaction between the jump field and the gravitational<BR>&gt;field of the system.<BR><BR>Well, it's not obvious at all to me, and, with all due respect to Marc Miller,<BR>it wasn't obvious to the writers of CT and (especially) MT. You can go through<BR>CT and MT material with a fine tooth comb and except for an article about jump<BR>space by MM you won't find an inkling of the existence of jump shadowing. To the<BR>contrary, _Imperial Encyclopedia_ has a detailed step-by-step description of<BR>jumping from leaving a planet to setting down on the next one and it does not<BR>mention jump shadowing at all, nor does any of the rules or adventures. (I may,<BR>of course, have missed something). Note that I'm not talking about the cases<BR>where the destination is inside the 100D limit of another object, just about the<BR>cases of intervening objects.<BR><BR>There's no obvious reason why there should be any correspondance between jump<BR>space and the real space between jump entry and jump exit and several very good<BR>ones why there shouldn't.<BR><BR>But I guess that's water under the bridge. :-(<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:41:20 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just<BR>&gt;get rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR><BR>Reactionless drives give much more of a far future feel than fusion <BR>rockets.&nbsp; Also, HEPlaR makes *way* too good a weapon (*far* <BR>better than any other weapons useable on small starships).&nbsp; <BR><BR>One answer is to simply say that Thruster plates work differently <BR>than described.&nbsp; What if they are a reaction drive which transforms <BR>hydrogen into neutrinos which then shoot out the back at the <BR>speed of light.&nbsp; The drive appears to have no exhaust, can't be used <BR>a weapon, is safe form planetary landings and works very similarly <BR>to T-Plates.&nbsp; Also, having 15x the Specific Impulse of HEPlaR <BR>(having exhaust velocity of C instead of HEPlaR's exhaust velocity <BR>of 0.13333 C) fuel is rarely a problem.<BR><BR>Devoting a mere 5% of a vessel's volume to reaction mass gives <BR>you 75 G-hours which is enough to make a constant 1-G <BR>acceleration round trip journey from Earth to Mars.&nbsp; Doubling the <BR>size of the reaction mass tank to 10% of the ship's volume gives <BR>you 150 G-hours which should be enough for any reasonable use <BR>(but neatly avoids the worst of the near-C rock problem).&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>Btw, having read that the neutrino flux near a supernova can be <BR>lethal (an idea which really impresses me), does anyone know if <BR>the neutrino flux I'm postulating would be at all harmful?&nbsp; If not, then <BR>you have an engine which produces vast amounts of thrust and <BR>produces only a cool-looking blue glow.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I'd keep contragrav for low orbit vessels and air-rafts, and use <BR>realistic equations where increased speed = increased energy <BR>usage for contra-grav drives (as well as having them greatly <BR>decrease in thrust as they get away from a planet).&nbsp; Can anyone <BR>punch any holes in this setup? I'm assuming that the hydrogen to <BR>neutrino converter can *only* be used to convert matter into <BR>neutrinos, and so can't be used as a weapon.<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:41:13 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: The Long Night<BR><BR>Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:39:24 +0200<BR>&gt; &gt; From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; BTW: Anybody else thought it peculiar, that the Long Night, prompted<BR>&gt; &gt; by a loss of financial stability lasted 700 years, but the Short<BR>&gt; &gt; Night, prompted by the total destruction of the Imperium by a<BR>&gt; &gt; doomsday weapon gone wild, which still roams the wilds, only lasted<BR>&gt; &gt; 70 years?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But more seriously, I for one have never been able to make sense of<BR>&gt; the Long Night.&nbsp; An economic and political vacuum just isn't stable. <BR>&gt; All it takes is a scattering of self-sufficient high-tech worlds to<BR>&gt; keep interstellar trade going.&nbsp; Imagine the fortunes to be made if<BR>&gt; your three nearest trade rivals go out of business due to economic<BR>&gt; chaos!&nbsp; Trade dependent worlds would have a few hard years to get<BR>&gt; through, following which waves of carpetbaggers would descend on them,<BR>&gt; selling air plant replacement parts at whatever the market would bear.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Mercantilist pocket empires would expand rapidly under these<BR>&gt; conditions.&nbsp; From a few such seeds, the entire volume of the Second<BR>&gt; Imperium could easily be humming along again in 50 years, tops.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So how do we account for almost a millenium of collapse?&nbsp; What were<BR>&gt; the high-tech, self-sufficient worlds doing through seven centuries of<BR>&gt; Night? Or more to the point, why *weren't* any of them doing seemingly<BR>&gt; obvious things?<BR><BR>I always assumed that they were.&nbsp; My vision of the Long Night is <BR>where a vast empire collapsed and no new empire or other large <BR>political body formed to replace it.&nbsp; A number of trade-dependant <BR>worlds collapsed, some vacuum (and similary hostile) worlds died <BR>off entirely.&nbsp; However, mostly the interstallar economy collapsed, <BR>lots of worlds had a tough time, and long-distance trade vanished.&nbsp; <BR>On a sub-sector (and in some cases sector) level there was still a <BR>moderate amount of interstellar trade.&nbsp; Less than before or after the <BR>Long Night (due to pirates, lack of repair facilities on many <BR>worlds...), but ships still went from world to world on a regular basis.<BR><BR>W/o any form of central government, tech mostly ceased to <BR>advance, especially since TL 12 is one of the *big* * difficult jumps, <BR>and much of the capabilities and knowledge to create that level of <BR>tech was highly centralized (near Terra). Also, most of the ex-<BR>Imperium was inhabited by Vilani and former Vilani clients who had <BR>absolutely no tradition of technological advancement. So, <BR>technology stagnated, few folks had higher than TL 10, &amp; TL 12 <BR>was mostly gone.<BR><BR>Those worlds with interstellar tech were almost all restricted to <BR>Jump-1, and traveling too far from home risked attacks by <BR>neighboring pocket empires, pirates, or merely being too far from <BR>spare parts and repair facilities.&nbsp; This sort of setup will keep both <BR>trade and states quite local. <BR><BR>Any state attempting to expand will rapidly run into another pocket <BR>empire a few sub-sectors away who don't wish to be conquered. No <BR>one managed to develop a long term expansionist state until the <BR>Sylean Federation was formed in -650, and when they reached TL <BR>12 in -150 (both dates from MegaTraveller) they had a big edge over <BR>their neighbors and were rapidly able to expand and conquer the <BR>entire sector and beyond.<BR><BR>In effect, it was a time much like the various warring states era of <BR>China or the Middle Ages, where much happened, but which were <BR>long considered to be dull and barbaric for largely political reasons. <BR><BR>In short, I'd call the Long Night the era of pocket empires.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>Comments?<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:44:20 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: capitals<BR><BR>Steven Bonneville writes:<BR>&gt;"Michael Bitrick" &lt;mbitrick@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Spinward Marches&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Regina****<BR>&gt;&gt;**** Norris moves the sector capital to Mora after 1116.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;The circa-1112 _Spinward Marches Campaign_ from CT shows Mora is the<BR>&gt;sector capital at that point.&nbsp; Of course, there may be other places<BR>&gt;that claim that Regina is sector capital; there's always been some<BR>&gt;confusion about that.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Indeed. My take has always been that since Delphine is the sector duchess, her<BR>ducal seat is the sector capital. Norris move (or set up) the _domain_ capital<BR>on Mora in 1116. It was already sector capital at that time and any information<BR>about Regina being the sector capital is erroneous.<BR><BR><BR>Hans <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:13:43 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Vegan<BR><BR>If the Vegan Autonomous Zone is supposed to be an effective counter to the<BR>Solomani, what is there Naval strength?<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:37:54 -0700<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: clothing optional<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>...<BR>&gt; &gt;following suit. Still, I can see some PCs being a bit disconcerted at<BR>&gt; &gt;being shown to their cabin by a Steward wearing sandals, a smile, and a<BR>&gt; &gt;bit of paint...<BR><BR>Where I'm from he's overdressed.&nbsp; Sandals?&nbsp; Could be fun though.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:58 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: D20 Task Resolution<BR><BR>Well as a member of the "New Reformed Polyhedralist Dice Collective" I admit<BR>we use non D6 dice but will charge anyone using half dice with sacrilege.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:20 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Type-L Lab Ship<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Smart, David J<BR>&gt; (David)<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, 23 October 2000 11:35 PM<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Type-L Lab Ship<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Anthony Colosetti posted:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Does anyone know the actual name of the Type-L Lab ship<BR>&gt; &gt; class?&nbsp; In addition<BR>&gt; &gt; what (if any) other ships have you GMs or players given or received as<BR>&gt; &gt; mustering out benefits that differ from the typical ships given?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As a GM, I've given out a 150dton "command" scoutship, modified Far &amp;<BR>&gt; Fat Traders,&nbsp; and ships I've gleaned from various publications, including<BR>&gt; a Type H Hunter-class bounty hunter ship and a mission-specific prospector<BR>&gt; ship (Khuzdul-class from a White Dwarf).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've quite an extensive list of ships with external illos. Quite a few<BR>&gt; also come with deckplans. All of it is complements of the efforts to TML<BR>&gt; members and other Traveller fans.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (&lt;tips hat&gt; Thank you, one and all!)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; David<BR><BR>I dont' ever remember seeing a canon class name for the type L. IMTU I named<BR>the first type L "Lavoisier" named after of course Antoine Lavoisier, seemed<BR>appropriate for a laboratory ship. It also matched the type S "Sulieman"<BR>class. For the type T I went with "Taipan" the configuration of this seemed<BR>Terran influenced. Of course many classes may have been built which met the<BR>requirements of a type specification.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:52 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Virus!<BR>The icing on the cake of total destruction.<BR><BR>Points<BR>1.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The virus did a lot of damage, killing trillions (and rattling the<BR>cages of the traditional canons).<BR>2.&nbsp; &nbsp; Most virus strains in the new era are interested in their own survival.<BR>3.&nbsp; &nbsp; Virus was not quite as damaging as people think, it was just the final<BR>nail.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; a. Evidence the number of pocket empires in canon.<BR>4.&nbsp; &nbsp; There is no canon evidence one way or the other of the effect of other<BR>black war weapons. How many biological plagues got off their target worlds?<BR>5.&nbsp; &nbsp; Given the resources and knowing it existed I would find it surprising if<BR>one of the imperial factions did not fabricate a working version of the star<BR>trigger.<BR><BR>Not completely unrelated<BR>Given that a genuine star trigger is eventually built by the Daryens, and<BR>given the canon effect on the homeworlds sun, what would the effect be if<BR>used against something less stable than a main sequence star?<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3207<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (rly-zb02.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.2]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:55:57 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:55:22 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA38367;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:54:43 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:53:15 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id CAA38319<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:53:15 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:53:15 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010240653.CAA38319@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3207<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3208<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>First Contact<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: Vegan<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: Vegan<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: First Contact<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR>RE: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: D20 Task Reslution<BR>RE: The Long Night<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:03 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: First Contact<BR><BR>I believe this has been dealt with before but I cant find it in my records.<BR>First contact between Terrans and Vilani is supposed to have taken part<BR>following the first mission to Barnard's Star from Earth.<BR><BR>Were the Vilani caught watching reruns of Battlestar Galactica? Or did they<BR>think that Star Trek episodes were historical documents?<BR><BR>Earth is, and has been since the 50s being pumping huge amount of TV and<BR>radio signals straight into space. Surely Vilani sensors of the period could<BR>pick these signals up.<BR><BR>Then their were the Pioneer and Voyager series probes. Which thoughtfully<BR>provided the location and population figures for the planet Earth. Suppose<BR>one of these was intercepted?<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:42 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>If HEPlaR is a plasma rocket, then surely the exhaust would be dissipating<BR>the moment it exited the exhaust port, like the plasma and fusion guns.<BR>Giving a very limited range for use as a weapon.<BR><BR>Incidentally if a space shuttle took off from the centre of a city any idea<BR>how much damage would be done? The problem is not with the drives being able<BR>to vaporise a city, but the location that starports seem to occupy. It would<BR>also explain the ring structures around launch pads. If we can accept super<BR>thrusters like HEPlar then why not super refractories as well.<BR><BR>Also on the subject of the circular donut enclosed launched pads if T-plates<BR>are so benign why would so many of the pads needs these devices.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:44:27 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Vegan<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2000 1:14 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Vegan<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If the Vegan Autonomous Zone is supposed to be an effective counter to the<BR>&gt; Solomani, what is there Naval strength?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Apparently the Vegan Autonamous Zone has one hand-me down Kinunir class<BR>"battlecruiser", what more do you need?<BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:29:50 -0700<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; But everyone finally agreed that it was mauve.<BR><BR>Bruce....... Apache White..... That is what we all agreed on.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:57:09 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Vegan<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:44 PM<BR>Subject: RE: Vegan<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2000 1:14 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Vegan<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If the Vegan Autonomous Zone is supposed to be an effective counter to<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt; Solomani, what is there Naval strength?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Apparently the Vegan Autonamous Zone has one hand-me down Kinunir class<BR>&gt; "battlecruiser", what more do you need?<BR>&gt; Antony<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, I know they have several Azhanti High Lightning class cruisers<BR>too. I am curious as to the Vegan's overall power and influence in the<BR>region.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:55:42 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>&gt; From: Charles Collin <BR>&gt; The only problem is, it's not immediately obvious how you trick some<BR>&gt; volume of the universe into thinking that the whole thing is "cooler"<BR>&gt; than it really is. :-)<BR><BR>Mirrorshades?<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:13:57 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>&gt; From: Bruce Johnson <BR>&gt; But everyone finally agreed that it was mauve. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Definitely mauve...not gray, not purple, but mauve. And relational...it<BR>&gt; has to be relational, preferably SQL. ;-)<BR><BR>Hang on.&nbsp; What about species whose vision is centred in the deep infrared? <BR>Can't they establish F-Techs?&nbsp; Or is mauve at the extreme end of their<BR>visual spectrum?<BR><BR>And what about maroon?&nbsp; Wouldn't Lucan's empire have been an F-Tech? <BR>Wouldn't he have ended up being marooned?<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:45:35 +1000<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>In Neal Stephensons "Diamond Age" they do exactly this...aerostats are hard<BR>diamond hulls full of vacuum with gondola's hung underneath...<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>Thing wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:13 PM<BR>&gt; Craig Berry said,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Yes, if you also allow for the weight of the balloon material.&nbsp; But<BR>&gt; it's<BR>&gt; &gt; far easier (and more useful) to use pure helium, and then add payload,<BR>&gt; &gt; structure, and ballast mass until you achieve neutral buoyancy.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was wondering, given a rigid envelope of sufficient strength and such,<BR>&gt; wouldn't a large envelope of vacuum be more effective than any lifting<BR>&gt; glass.&nbsp; It should bring the overall density of the whole rig to the<BR>&gt; lowest possible value (without using degenerate forms of matter).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; G.D.D.<BR>&gt; Thing under the stairs,<BR>&gt; Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>&gt; Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>&gt; ===========================<BR>&gt; "Women and cats will do as they please.&nbsp; And men and dogs should relax<BR>&gt; and get used to the idea." -Robert Heinlein<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:42:19 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>&gt; I believe this has been dealt with before but I cant find it in my<BR>records.<BR>&gt; First contact between Terrans and Vilani is supposed to have taken part<BR>&gt; following the first mission to Barnard's Star from Earth.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Were the Vilani caught watching reruns of Battlestar Galactica? Or did<BR>they<BR>&gt; think that Star Trek episodes were historical documents?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Earth is, and has been since the 50s being pumping huge amount of TV and<BR>&gt; radio signals straight into space. Surely Vilani sensors of the period<BR>could<BR>&gt; pick these signals up.<BR><BR>Why listen to interstellar radio if you can go there yourself? It takes some<BR>mighty big radio telescopes and loads of computer time, and very good<BR>telescope pointing to hear Earths TV broadcasts, even from just 5.5<BR>lightyears away. We don't brodcast our TV to make it heard all over the<BR>universe. If the broadcasts are hearable from orbit, that's good enough.<BR><BR>&gt; Then their were the Pioneer and Voyager series probes. Which thoughtfully<BR>&gt; provided the location and population figures for the planet Earth. Suppose<BR>&gt; one of these was intercepted?<BR><BR>If memory serves me, it will be another 300.000 years until any of those<BR>probes reach the vicinity of any other star, and Barnard's isn't one of them<BR>(I think Voyager is headed towards a Wolf or Ross star, can't keep those two<BR>name types apart ;-). And "vicinity" means it will pass within a lightyear<BR>or so of the star in question. Not exactly a good detection range for<BR>something as small as Voyager or Pioneer. And since nobody willfully makes<BR>jumps into empty intestellar space, and even if somebody did, space is much<BR>too big, the likelyhood of these probes ever being found is very, very<BR>small. On a timescale of several billion years one of them may pass through<BR>one or two planetary systems, but not ever in the known history of<BR>Traveller.<BR><BR>Think of it like this: if the Ancients sent a pioneer type probe towards Sol<BR>in their heyday, it just might be within a lightyear of Sol in the days of<BR>Strephon. And still, noone in the Sol system would be able to detect it.<BR>Space is humongous, really.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:53:10 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>owen_hughes wrote :<BR>&gt; Pete wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; of time travellers will exist with a vested interest in<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; de-integrating the time line. Or at least integrating to a<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; different time line than the PC organization. There could<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; conceivably be a number of different groups each intent on<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; preserving a different version of reality.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Right.&nbsp; Sounds like a Traveller/TimeMaster crossover.&nbsp; You&nbsp; could<BR>&gt; &gt; have missions all over the 3I's history (and even&nbsp; before),&nbsp; with<BR>&gt; &gt; different groups battling for the survival of their timeline.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ...Or, perhaps, a Traveller/Feng Shui crossover...<BR>&gt; &gt;:)<BR><BR>Or even more fun, a Traveller / Luther Arkwright crossover...<BR><BR>Luther would make a perfect ISS officer, and the PC's wouldn't even have to<BR>know him, they could just know the 3I's incarnation of Rose Wylde, and get<BR>drawn into the latest Disruptor plot to activate the Firefrost....<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:07:46 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR><BR>Jonathan 'Caraig' wrote re Furries :<BR><BR>&gt; There're some, though, who really&nbsp; are 'anti-human,' or rather<BR>&gt; 'human-critical,' who see humans as the scourge of the planet.<BR><BR>I knew it !<BR>I was right first time, some furries _are_ playing World of Darkness<BR>lyncathropes !<BR><BR>(For those that aren't familiar with Werewolf the Apocalypse, there are<BR>quite a number of WoD werewolves, or 'Garou', as well as other<BR>lyncanthropes, who subscribe to the above belief. )<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:08:25 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR><BR>I haven't encountered that. Usually it's people who are having a hard time facing up to what they are or just wish they were something else. A security blanket.<BR>Humans are the scourge of the planet anyway, you don't need to be a furfen to see that. ;-)<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Tuesday, October 24, 2000, at 10:07 AM, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Jonathan 'Caraig' wrote re Furries : <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; There're some, though, who really&nbsp; are 'anti-human,' or rather <BR>&gt; &gt; 'human-critical,' who see humans as the scourge of the planet. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:17:08 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>D&amp;D has a d20 as its core task resolution mechanic. The third edition is called "The d20 system" to reflect this.<BR>Traveller has 2d6 as its core mechanic. T4's task system sticks out like a pasted-on extra thumb. Bucket-of-dice systems were briefly fashionable in the late 80s/early 90s, but they are an intrusive mechanic that isn't as simple or fun as it looks. And I don't like rolling low...<BR>Half dice I can get my head around (Star Wars 2e uses a "Wild Die"), but having a game system with a bolted-on bucket-of-dice task system that uses 1/2d for only one roll (the most common) isn't any sort of gain over the MegaTraveller task system, which at the very least knew how many dice Traveller is based on.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Monday, October 23, 2000, at 11:10 PM, trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; (1)Yes, that includes T4 and its perverse 'half-dice.' <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:10:21 +0100<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 24 October 2000 05:41<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just<BR>&gt; &gt;get rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Reactionless drives give much more of a far future feel than fusion <BR>&gt; rockets.&nbsp; Also, HEPlaR makes *way* too good a weapon (*far* <BR>&gt; better than any other weapons useable on small starships).&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; One answer is to simply say that Thruster plates work differently <BR>&gt; than described.&nbsp; What if they are a reaction drive which transforms <BR>&gt; hydrogen into neutrinos which then shoot out the back at the <BR>&gt; speed of light.&nbsp; The drive appears to have no exhaust, can't be used <BR>&gt; a weapon, is safe form planetary landings and works very similarly <BR>&gt; to T-Plates.&nbsp; Also, having 15x the Specific Impulse of HEPlaR <BR>&gt; (having exhaust velocity of C instead of HEPlaR's exhaust velocity <BR>&gt; of 0.13333 C) fuel is rarely a problem.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Devoting a mere 5% of a vessel's volume to reaction mass gives <BR>&gt; you 75 G-hours which is enough to make a constant 1-G <BR>&gt; acceleration round trip journey from Earth to Mars.&nbsp; Doubling the <BR>&gt; size of the reaction mass tank to 10% of the ship's volume gives <BR>&gt; you 150 G-hours which should be enough for any reasonable use <BR>&gt; (but neatly avoids the worst of the near-C rock problem).&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Btw, having read that the neutrino flux near a supernova can be <BR>&gt; lethal (an idea which really impresses me), does anyone know if <BR>&gt; the neutrino flux I'm postulating would be at all harmful?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; If not, then <BR>&gt; you have an engine which produces vast amounts of thrust and <BR>&gt; produces only a cool-looking blue glow.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd keep contragrav for low orbit vessels and air-rafts, and use <BR>&gt; realistic equations where increased speed = increased energy <BR>&gt; usage for contra-grav drives (as well as having them greatly <BR>&gt; decrease in thrust as they get away from a planet).&nbsp; Can anyone <BR>&gt; punch any holes in this setup? I'm assuming that the hydrogen to <BR>&gt; neutrino converter can *only* be used to convert matter into <BR>&gt; neutrinos, and so can't be used as a weapon.<BR><BR>Nice idea, but...<BR><BR>A Hydrogen to Neutrino converter is a fusion power plant...<BR><BR>How do you 'direct' the neutrinos out of the back of the craft?<BR><BR>Do neutrinos have the mass required to provide thrust? <BR><BR>Or does it just have to be energy that is emitted?<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:56:33 +0100<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt; [mailto:david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au]<BR>&gt; Sent: 24 October 2000 04:02<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; James said:<BR>&gt; &gt;A call to all TML subscribers: Declare your allegiance <BR>&gt; today! Are you a<BR>&gt; &gt;member of the Old High Guard that is Roman Cubiscism, or do <BR>&gt; you find your<BR>&gt; &gt;calling in the great Polyhedron Reformation?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The player who plays Ervmisbe has two chunky, solid-metal <BR>&gt; (brass?) dice, at<BR>&gt; least 1" on a side. There was some discussion about what <BR>&gt; would happen if they<BR>&gt; were propelled towards someone with any sort of force.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; We took to calling them "hit dice".<BR><BR>Do they do 1D damage...?<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:13:07 +0100<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Long Night<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; In effect, it was a time much like the various warring states era of <BR>&gt; China or the Middle Ages, where much happened, but which were <BR>&gt; long considered to be dull and barbaric for largely political <BR>&gt; reasons. <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; In short, I'd call the Long Night the era of pocket empires.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; Comments?<BR><BR>Pretty much how I view the situation.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:19:13 +0100<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Incidentally if a space shuttle took off from the centre of a <BR>&gt; city any idea<BR>&gt; how much damage would be done? <BR><BR>As I understand it, the exhaust from the Solid Rocket Boosters is fairly<BR>toxic, so you don't want it being emitted all over your nice shiny<BR>downtown...<BR><BR>Otherwise, unless it actually exploded on the launch pad, there wouldn't<BR>be any actual *physical*&nbsp; damage more than a few metres away from the<BR>launch pad<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:29:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Sun, 22 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; http://www.halcyon.com/elf/<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; I've read about 10 of the stories so far.&nbsp; The writing is really good.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ken Shardik is kind of annoying, though.<BR><BR>Hey, given the powers he once had, and the ones he *still* has, I can't<BR>really blame him. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; And are we ever going to find out why he got so depressed?<BR><BR>It's not obvious?<BR><BR>&gt; It's a really fascinating universe.<BR><BR>Yep. I hadn't visited the site in some time and I was pleased to find a<BR>whole bunch of new stories...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:32:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dalton Spence wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; With all the furor about the top 10 movies that people would want<BR>&gt;&gt; the Imperium to know about, nobody (at least as of digest #3191)<BR>&gt;&gt; seems to have considered that broadcast and cable TV series vastly<BR>&gt;&gt; outweigh theatrical and TV movies in terms of shear video volume.<BR>&gt; snip <BR>&gt;&gt; What TV programs would you like to see survive the Long Night?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; _most_ of 'em! After all we've backed them up to the cosmos via<BR>&gt; broadcast...sure _someone_ out there will take note of our, err,<BR>&gt; documentaries... ;-)<BR><BR>I'd hate to be in charge of a project that had to untangle that mess of<BR>signals...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:52:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Elements lighter than iron can be fused to produce energy (though you<BR>&gt;&gt; get less and less as you approach iron). Elements *heavier* than iron<BR>&gt;&gt; can be split to produce energy. Iron (specificly Iron-56) is at the<BR>&gt;&gt; peak of the curve of binding energy and you can't get energy from it by<BR>&gt;&gt; fission *or* fusion.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, yes, you can, sort of...you just have to be doing it at the core<BR>&gt; of a star. As soon as a star begins to fuse iron, all that mass that was<BR>&gt; pushed out by the constant outflow of energy from the core, starts<BR>&gt; falling back down.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eventually it stops falling and bounces, more or less. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The problem is being able to _extract_ the energy from a nova....<BR><BR>But you aren't extracting the energy from *the iron*. It's all the<BR>lighter stuff falling in on it that goes "bang".<BR><BR>If you want to extract energy from iron via a process that *isn't*<BR>fission or fusion, just pile it up until you get a black hole, and<BR>collect the Hawking radiation. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:57:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Actually, we worked out the math here on the list once, and it's far<BR>&gt;&gt; *worse* than reaction drive performance, except for very low relative<BR>&gt;&gt; velocities. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Depends on what you mean by 'worse'.&nbsp; At typical orbital speed for a star,<BR>&gt; it's around 40 MW/kN, though that depends on direction -- it could be lower,<BR>&gt; or even negative.<BR><BR>Well, to start with, if it's "pushing" on the gravity well, going<BR>sideways isn't in the cards. <BR><BR>Also, you've obviously made a fundamental error in your calcs. Because<BR>the energy required for a given amount of thrust will depend on the<BR>relative speed of the ship and the object it's pushing on. Since you<BR>have a *fixed* amount, your calcs *have* to have a mistake somewhere. <BR><BR>&gt; You actually can do this without nasty math, though.&nbsp; It just<BR>&gt; requires assuming that a T-plate is actually a superefficient energy<BR>&gt; storage device.<BR><BR>The math isn't all that naty. It just required calculus, which I'm not<BR>trained in. For the folks who are, it was simple.<BR><BR>The key factor is that as the ship's velocity away for the object it is<BR>"pushing" on increases, trhe energy required by the drive goes up<BR>sharply. <BR><BR>Try working out the kinetic energy of the ship at various times,<BR>assuming it accelerates with constant thrust. it quickly exceeds to<BR>output of any feasible powerplant. <BR><BR>Remember, at 1g a ship can attain 100s of km/sec in short periods of<BR>time. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:11:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Vernor Vinge's 'bobbles' would make ideal vacuum ballons, though.&nbsp; Those<BR>&gt; things have a thousand and one household uses beyond their (forward) time<BR>&gt; travel capabilities, notably including the fact that they would instantly<BR>&gt; become the only choice for ball bearings.&nbsp; Imagine a bearing with<BR>&gt; negligible mass, and which never wears at all.&nbsp; (Though you'd want to keep<BR>&gt; a *very* careful eye on the maintenance schedule, unless you can bobble<BR>&gt; for a billion years, which the book never makes clear.)<BR><BR>"Marrooned in Realtime" makes it clear that you can bobble for<BR>multi-million year timespans. Even if the Peacers did it by mistake. :-)<BR><BR>A bobbler would make an interesting "Ancient artifact". <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:33:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Sun, 22 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; http://www.halcyon.com/elf/<BR><BR>Reading the newer stories, I found a couple references to Traveller.<BR>One is a *terrible* pun...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:35:51 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; But more seriously, I for one have never been able to make sense of the<BR>&gt; Long Night.&nbsp; An economic and political vacuum just isn't stable.&nbsp; All it<BR>&gt; takes is a scattering of self-sufficient high-tech worlds to keep<BR>&gt; interstellar trade going.&nbsp; Imagine the fortunes to be made if your three<BR>&gt; nearest trade rivals go out of business due to economic chaos!&nbsp; Trade<BR>&gt; dependent worlds would have a few hard years to get through, following<BR>&gt; which waves of carpetbaggers would descend on them, selling air plant<BR>&gt; replacement parts at whatever the market would bear.&nbsp; Mercantilist pocket<BR>&gt; empires would expand rapidly under these conditions.&nbsp; From a few such<BR>&gt; seeds, the entire volume of the Second Imperium could easily be humming<BR>&gt; along again in 50 years, tops.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So how do we account for almost a millenium of collapse?&nbsp; What were the<BR>&gt; high-tech, self-sufficient worlds doing through seven centuries of Night?<BR><BR>Trying to survive.<BR><BR>&gt; Or more to the point, why *weren't* any of them doing seemingly obvious<BR>&gt; things?<BR><BR>It takes a lot of manhours and capital expenditures to send out all the<BR>ships. And until the other worlds are at a decent TL, there's no<BR>economic *return*.<BR><BR>Sure, the natives will gladly buy your high tech widgets. But what are<BR>the going to *pay* you with?<BR><BR>Knock out the infra structure on most worlds, especially when most of<BR>them likely *weren't* self-sufficient, and you get a nasty little<BR>collapse. <BR><BR>Picture a typical country (or state/province in the case of something<BR>like the US) when you lose most of the vehicles capable of reaching<BR>another state.<BR><BR>Most states wouldn't do very well if cut off from the other states. And<BR>they won't be up to building trucks or planes any time soon. And most<BR>of the ones that would be aren't up to *feeding* themselves.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3208<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:14:01 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:13:19 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id GAA54552;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:11:35 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:11:17 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA54425<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:11:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:11:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010241011.GAA54425@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3208<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3209<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: First Contact<BR>RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>Brilliant Lances &amp; Battle Riders<BR>Re: First Contact<BR>RE: Vegan (longish)<BR>RE: First Contact<BR>MJ Dougherty's latest effort<BR>Re: Video Games in the 3i<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Historical Bias (was "RE: The Long...")<BR>re: On To The Far Future <BR>Re: First Contact<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>RE: Vegan<BR>Question about canon technology<BR>Recall: Vegan<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:42:31 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; In a message dated 10/22/00 1:55:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; He made<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; us<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; inventory our pockets and our personal posessions and that's all the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; equipment we could start with. I felt lucky; I had my Swiss Army knife <BR>&gt; on my<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; belt. Needless to say the first thing we did was look for a sporting <BR>&gt; goods<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; store...:-).<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Gee, he'd hate me. I already have a nice *rugged* rifle, and 1000<BR>&gt;&gt; rounds of ammo. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You carry your rifle and a thousand rounds of ammo to gaming sessions<BR>&gt; with you???<BR><BR>No. But then again, for *that* sort of scenario, if he's counting the<BR>stuff I carry with me, I'd want to know why he wouldn't count stuff I<BR>own that's within walking distance...<BR><BR>&gt; Wow, you live in a rougher neighborhood than I imagined ;-) The<BR>&gt; deadliest weapon I've ever brought to one was a crockpot.<BR><BR>Well, don't forget that we used to hold gaming session in the house I<BR>was living in... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:48:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In a message dated 10/23/00 7:15:04 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>&gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; Gee, he'd hate me. I already have a nice *rugged* rifle, and 1000<BR>&gt;&nbsp; rounds of ammo. :-) &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah; but do you bring it to your gaming session?...:-)<BR><BR>In a "you are transported magically into the gameworld" scenario, I can<BR>see limiting it to the possessions you have *on* you. <BR><BR>In the sort of scenario described, I think it's a bit silly to have the<BR>GM stick you with *only* the possessions you have with you at the game,<BR>rather than the possesion you own annd can be easily reached from where<BR>the game is held.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:22:36 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>On 24 Oct 00, at 14:42, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Earth is, and has been since the 50s being pumping huge amount of TV and<BR>&gt; radio signals straight into space. Surely Vilani sensors of the period could<BR>&gt; pick these signals up.<BR><BR>This seems to be a popular misconception. It is very unlikely that any <BR>interstellar civilisation (Vilani or otherwise) will be inflicted with watching I <BR>Love Lucy, Star Trek, Monty Python's Flying Circus et al. All these are <BR>transmitted using low power signals and they just won't carry very far. The <BR>only signals we are currently generating that are likely to carry over <BR>interstellar distances are the essentially meaningless transmissions of very <BR>high powered radars etc. These are signals that would probably be <BR>recognisable as being artifical, but carry no information. Also remember <BR>that while we are pumping out a huge amount of EM radiation most of it is <BR>very lower power and short range and even disregarding that, we still put <BR>out only about 20% of the EM output of Jupiter (not that that isn't quite <BR>impressive).<BR><BR>As to the Vilani specifically, despite what Jon wrote in First In, it is very <BR>very unlikely that they would have detected Terra's EM signature. Not only <BR>due to the problems above, but also due to the fact that they were very <BR>actively NOT looking. The Vegans on the other hand... (que plot <BR>development).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:52:23 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>Charles Collin wrote:<BR>&gt; " It is possible that another, even more stable kind of vacuum<BR>&gt; exists, however. As the universe expands and cools, tiny bubbles<BR>&gt; of this new kind of vacuum might appear and spread at nearly the<BR>&gt; speed of light. The laws of physics would change in their wake,<BR>&gt; and a blast of energy would dash everything to bits."<BR><BR>Ah, so this is what the Empress Wave really is.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 05:02:18 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Now, I've heard that the noise from a shuttle launch can be detrimental<BR>to health at less than 2000 meters.&nbsp; This came up in a discussion on<BR>whether the Challenger's fuel tank could have been damaged by a sniper<BR>just prior to lift off.<BR><BR>Of course, since this was a "Conspiracy Theory" discussion, the science<BR>may (or may not be) suspect.&nbsp; Only "they" know.<BR><BR>- --- Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Incidentally if a space shuttle took off from the centre of a <BR>&gt; &gt; city any idea<BR>&gt; &gt; how much damage would be done? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As I understand it, the exhaust from the Solid Rocket Boosters is<BR>&gt; fairly<BR>&gt; toxic, so you don't want it being emitted all over your nice shiny<BR>&gt; downtown...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Otherwise, unless it actually exploded on the launch pad, there<BR>&gt; wouldn't<BR>&gt; be any actual *physical*&nbsp; damage more than a few metres away from the<BR>&gt; launch pad<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Matt<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:01:58 -0400<BR>From: Tal Meta &lt;talmeta@cybercomm.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Brilliant Lances &amp; Battle Riders<BR><BR>If anyone is interested, I have the following up for auction on eBay...<BR><BR>Brilliant Lances<BR>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=468342687<BR><BR>Battle Riders<BR>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=469558193<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 05:25:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>Wouldn't the fellow on the receiving end need the proper equipment to<BR>determine the nature of the signal?&nbsp; For instance, the Vilani might<BR>pick up radio signals which are obviously intelligent in origin (no<BR>snickering!), but without a television set built to industry standards,<BR>they'd never know what exactly those signals represent.<BR><BR>I wonder if this is why we haven't yet decoded those signals the aliens<BR>are beaming at us even as we speak (and would account for why no one<BR>knew that a hyperspace bypass was being built through the Solar System<BR>- -- except for the dolphins, who had industry-standard receivers).<BR><BR><BR><BR>- --- Andrew Moffatt-Vallance &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; On 24 Oct 00, at 14:42, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Earth is, and has been since the 50s being pumping huge amount of<BR>&gt; TV and<BR>&gt; &gt; radio signals straight into space. Surely Vilani sensors of the<BR>&gt; period could<BR>&gt; &gt; pick these signals up.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This seems to be a popular misconception. It is very unlikely that<BR>&gt; any <BR>&gt; interstellar civilisation (Vilani or otherwise) will be inflicted<BR>&gt; with watching I <BR>&gt; Love Lucy, Star Trek, Monty Python's Flying Circus et al. All these<BR>&gt; are <BR>&gt; transmitted using low power signals and they just won't carry very<BR>&gt; far. The <BR>&gt; only signals we are currently generating that are likely to carry<BR>&gt; over <BR>&gt; interstellar distances are the essentially meaningless transmissions<BR>&gt; of very <BR>&gt; high powered radars etc. These are signals that would probably be <BR>&gt; recognisable as being artifical, but carry no information. Also<BR>&gt; remember <BR>&gt; that while we are pumping out a huge amount of EM radiation most of<BR>&gt; it is <BR>&gt; very lower power and short range and even disregarding that, we still<BR>&gt; put <BR>&gt; out only about 20% of the EM output of Jupiter (not that that isn't<BR>&gt; quite <BR>&gt; impressive).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As to the Vilani specifically, despite what Jon wrote in First In, it<BR>&gt; is very <BR>&gt; very unlikely that they would have detected Terra's EM signature. Not<BR>&gt; only <BR>&gt; due to the problems above, but also due to the fact that they were<BR>&gt; very <BR>&gt; actively NOT looking. The Vegans on the other hand... (que plot <BR>&gt; development).<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:43:23 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Vegan (longish)<BR><BR>Vegan Autonomous Region Naval Forces<BR><BR>Apart from the Kinunir class ship "Regal Splendour" Ex BC/CC-9518<BR>"Shuruppak" transferred to Vega in 1092<BR>and 2 Azhanti Lightning class cruisers "Sudden Star" Ex FI-6373 "Arbitrary<BR>Remora" and "Accompanist" Ex FI-6393 "Incomparable Triumph", both<BR>transferred to Vega in 1013 nothing seems to be known about Vegan Fleet<BR>Assets<BR><BR>Checking the Rebellion sourcebook shows that the region occupied by the<BR>Vegan Autonomous Region had two imperial fleets (the 296th and 294th) plus 2<BR>reserve fleets assigned. The majority of systems in these two subsectors<BR>(Esperance and Vega) are part of the Autonomous Zone.<BR><BR>Based on the premise that the VAR is actually autonomous, though part of the<BR>3I, an argument could be made that the four fleets, two line and two reserve<BR>could actually be operated by the Vegans. Especially given that the VAR has<BR>several high tech high population worlds with A class starports. Giving the<BR>VAR the resources to build and operate a sizable fleet.<BR><BR>Also the VAR is a front line state, it was probably a condition that an<BR>extra portion of local revenue be devoted to defence. Given this I would<BR>give the numbered fleets the best imperial equipment available. The<BR>Lightnings given their age and TL I would assign as a crudiv to one of the<BR>reserve fleet.<BR><BR>I know this does not give you any real information, but perhaps something to<BR>mull upon.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:43:24 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: First Contact<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tage Borg<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2000 4:42 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: First Contact<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I believe this has been dealt with before but I cant find it in my<BR>&gt; records.<BR>&gt; &gt; First contact between Terrans and Vilani is supposed to have taken part<BR>&gt; &gt; following the first mission to Barnard's Star from Earth.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Were the Vilani caught watching reruns of Battlestar Galactica? Or did<BR>&gt; they<BR>&gt; &gt; think that Star Trek episodes were historical documents?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Earth is, and has been since the 50s being pumping huge amount of TV and<BR>&gt; &gt; radio signals straight into space. Surely Vilani sensors of the period<BR>&gt; could<BR>&gt; &gt; pick these signals up.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Why listen to interstellar radio if you can go there yourself? It<BR>&gt; takes some<BR>&gt; mighty big radio telescopes and loads of computer time, and very good<BR>&gt; telescope pointing to hear Earths TV broadcasts, even from just 5.5<BR>&gt; lightyears away. We don't brodcast our TV to make it heard all over the<BR>&gt; universe. If the broadcasts are hearable from orbit, that's good enough.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Then their were the Pioneer and Voyager series probes. Which<BR>&gt; thoughtfully<BR>&gt; &gt; provided the location and population figures for the planet<BR>&gt; Earth. Suppose<BR>&gt; &gt; one of these was intercepted?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If memory serves me, it will be another 300.000 years until any of those<BR>&gt; probes reach the vicinity of any other star, and Barnard's isn't<BR>&gt; one of them<BR>&gt; (I think Voyager is headed towards a Wolf or Ross star, can't<BR>&gt; keep those two<BR>&gt; name types apart ;-). And "vicinity" means it will pass within a lightyear<BR>&gt; or so of the star in question. Not exactly a good detection range for<BR>&gt; something as small as Voyager or Pioneer. And since nobody willfully makes<BR>&gt; jumps into empty intestellar space, and even if somebody did,<BR>&gt; space is much<BR>&gt; too big, the likelyhood of these probes ever being found is very, very<BR>&gt; small. On a timescale of several billion years one of them may<BR>&gt; pass through<BR>&gt; one or two planetary systems, but not ever in the known history of<BR>&gt; Traveller.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Think of it like this: if the Ancients sent a pioneer type probe<BR>&gt; towards Sol<BR>&gt; in their heyday, it just might be within a lightyear of Sol in the days of<BR>&gt; Strephon. And still, noone in the Sol system would be able to detect it.<BR>&gt; Space is humongous, really.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; /Tage<BR>&gt;<BR>Ah I get it<BR>Space is big, REALLY BIG!<BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:51:20 -0500<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: MJ Dougherty's latest effort<BR><BR>Greetings Gentlefolk,<BR><BR>I don't normally bother the list with efforts that<BR>don't directly involve, inform, devolve (?) traveller,<BR>however, MJ Dougherty's latest efffort resulted in<BR>such a guffaw of laughter from me and the resulting<BR>....well, effusion of coffee that I felt it neccessary to<BR>mention my first real keyboard fatality.<BR><BR>It's really good stuff. God help us<BR>Take a gander when you can<BR><BR>Pat<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:06:53 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Video Games in the 3i<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There's been talk lately about movies and TV in the Third Imperium, but it's<BR>&gt; time that we discuss a more important issue: Video Games!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Think about it: what do people do for entertainment on high-tech worlds.<BR>&gt; They play video games! Ditto for when they're in jump.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, the question is: what kind of video games would be around at TL10-16?<BR>&gt; Probably VR, but maybe something even better.<BR><BR>I really don't know about what the games are like, but I suggest that<BR>one of the leading manufacturers might be Nitenjutso.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:10:01 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; You've overlooked the Schrodinger's Cat effect. Until you<BR>&gt; actually look, the cat is both dead and alive, so the lift you<BR>&gt; get is an average of the dead/alive lift adjusted by the<BR>&gt; relative probabilities of each state... <BR><BR>It took me&nbsp; a&nbsp; little&nbsp; while&nbsp; to&nbsp; realise&nbsp; the&nbsp; error&nbsp; here.&nbsp; The<BR>Schrodinger's Cat effect is not in effect this way.&nbsp; You do *not*<BR>actually need to look at Mr Kitty to collapse his wave&nbsp; state&nbsp; to<BR>"alive" or "dead", the action of the Cat/toast drive doubles as a<BR>measuring&nbsp; device&nbsp; and&nbsp; that&nbsp; has&nbsp; the&nbsp; same&nbsp; effect&nbsp; as&nbsp;&nbsp; direct<BR>observation.&nbsp; (This *has* been confirmed in RL lab experiments.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; (I can't believe I just wrote that... Is there a "Gearheads<BR>&gt; Anonymous" chapter around here?)<BR><BR>Some gearheads did try to set one up but they couldn't&nbsp; agree&nbsp; on<BR>what design sequence to use.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:15:31 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; ...Or, perhaps, a Traveller/Feng Shui crossover...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;:)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Or even more fun, a Traveller / Luther Arkwright crossover...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Luther would make a perfect ISS officer, and the PC's <BR>&gt; wouldn't even have to<BR>&gt; know him, they could just know the 3I's incarnation of Rose <BR>&gt; Wylde, and get<BR>&gt; drawn into the latest Disruptor plot to activate the Firefrost....<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Wow. I thought I was the only person on this version of Earth to own a copy<BR>of LARP!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:17:30 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; <BR>&gt; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; <BR>&gt; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Imagine an<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; adventure where you have to save Strephon from <BR>&gt; assassination even<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; <BR>&gt; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall <BR>&gt;&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; to reintegrate the timeline!<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ye ghods, that's twisted. Any change you'll run it, and make <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; it a pbem? :)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Ha, I'd need to give up my day job to make time to fit it in with<BR>&gt; &gt; all my other projects.&nbsp; Do you want a crack at running&nbsp; it&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; &gt; pbem?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; If it does turn into a pbem, can I play the Villian intent on <BR>&gt; commiting<BR>&gt; evil acts, such as using my squad of Female aslan in comfy shoes to<BR>&gt; accelerate thruster plated virus ridden life pods at pirate <BR>&gt; asteroids? <BR><BR>Hmmm. Not that evil is it? Sounds like you just want to provoke a<BR>transtemporal flame-war.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:19:02 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Historical Bias (was "RE: The Long...")<BR><BR>On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Matt Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; In effect, it was a time much like the various warring states era of <BR>&gt; &gt; China or the Middle Ages, where much happened, but which were <BR>&gt; &gt; long considered to be dull and barbaric for largely political <BR>&gt; &gt; reasons. <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; In short, I'd call the Long Night the era of pocket empires.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; Comments?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Pretty much how I view the situation.<BR><BR>History is, of course, written by the victors, and the Third Imperium had<BR>a lot to gain by portraying itself as the "uniquely legitimate successor"<BR>to the First Imperium and the Rule-of-Man.&nbsp; I've always assumed that there<BR>were quite a few proto-Imperial experiments during the Long Night which,<BR>for one reason or another, just didn't quite get big enough or last long<BR>enough.&nbsp; Subsector-sized pocket empires would have been a-dime-a-dozen,<BR>and there would have been at least a couple of sector-sized "brown-dwarf<BR>Imperia" at any given time.&nbsp; The Third Imperium, however, likes people to<BR>think that its success was *not* just a lucky accident of history, so it<BR>paints the Long Night as being bleaker than it really was, and portrays<BR>all of those "Third Imperia that might have been" as being smaller,<BR>weaker, and far more backward and barbarous than they really were.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:24:53 -0400<BR>From: "Smith, Walter" &lt;SmithW@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: re: On To The Far Future <BR><BR>Regarding how the eventual encounter between the Regency<BR>and the Reformation Coalition worked out...<BR><BR>I don't have my copy of the materials with me, but I clearly<BR>remember the text having examples of historical records kept<BR>by the Regency about the Reformation Coalition, and not the<BR>other way around.&nbsp; It isn't definitive, but I'm betting that,<BR>as usual, the winners wrote the history books. :-)<BR><BR>Walt Smith<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:35:53 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>&gt; Ah I get it<BR>&gt; Space is big, REALLY BIG!<BR>&gt; Antony<BR><BR>Just so. ;-)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:29 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And it's not just in Traveller. In the TV show Andromeda, the <BR>&gt; Long Night was <BR>&gt; brought about by two stupid acts: Peace with the Magog and a <BR>&gt; rebellion. If <BR>&gt; they had been smart, neither would have happened.<BR><BR>Ah, Andromeda. I've only just started watching this. Is it just me or is<BR>Kevin Sorbo now hopelessly typecast as 'man who fights with big stick'?<BR>There are things I like about Andromeda<BR><BR>1. Utopian Star Trek style society destroyed.<BR>Nothing against the Federation personally, but they're so convinced of their<BR>own moral superiority!<BR><BR>2. A society based entirely on Nietzsche (Nee-Cha! Not Nee-chee! Sheesh!) :)<BR>Watchout, my players, for the attack of the Kantians! Traveller already has<BR>Aristotelians, of course, in the form of the Aslan &lt;dons asbestos<BR>underpants&gt;.<BR><BR>3. Everytime I hear someone say 'High Guard' I think of Traveller.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:46:26 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Well, I have just shut down my Spinward Marches all-newbie <BR>&gt; campaign (only my<BR>&gt; &gt; girlfriend posted, and she's gone back to medical school <BR>&gt; now and hasn't the<BR>&gt; &gt; time). I'm game. Anyone interested? Mil off-list please. <BR>&gt; I'll need a little<BR>&gt; &gt; time to create some rubber physics and a plausible time <BR>&gt; machine but...yeah.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All you really need is an improved reactionless drive. Jump <BR>&gt; drives plus<BR>&gt; easily reached near c velocities gives time travel...<BR><BR>Nah, Time dilation's too easy. I've whipped up a Tippler cylinder, placed it<BR>in Corridor and I've got a rather nifty mechanism to limit player use.<BR>Anyone not playing feel free to mail off-list for an explanation. People who<BR>have now expressed an interest:<BR><BR>Matt Bond<BR>Mexal<BR>Mikko Parviainen<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:48:29 -0400<BR>From: Bob Kovalchick &lt;Kovalchick@wbgh.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Vegan<BR><BR>I don't think the VAZ is to keep the Solomani in line militarily. The VAZ is<BR>more likely an economic influence in the region, and a base of operations<BR>for the Imperials.<BR><BR>Bob Kovalchick <BR>Sociology-4 JOT-2<BR>kovalchick@wbgh.org &lt;mailto:kovalchick@wbgh.org&gt; <BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; From:&nbsp; &nbsp; Jeffrey Yin [SMTP:jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sent:&nbsp; &nbsp; Tuesday, October 24, 2000 1:14 AM<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Subject:&nbsp; &nbsp; Vegan<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; If the Vegan Autonomous Zone is supposed to be an effective counter<BR>to the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Solomani, what is there Naval strength?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:56:51 -0700<BR>From: "Simon Hibbs" &lt;simonh_hibbs@my-deja.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti :<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm currently working on a universe in which gravitics never =<BR>&gt;developed (i.e. no grav plates,inertia compensators, air/rafts, or =<BR>&gt;reactionless drives).&nbsp; What are your opinions on how different the =<BR>&gt;universe of Traveller would be if such technology had not developed?&nbsp; =<BR><BR>Transport to and from planet surfaces would be many orders of<BR>magnitude more expensive. Thruster and Grav systems are relatively<BR>simple electronic devices. They are probably even solid state,<BR>so have low wear and long service lives, so are extremely cheap<BR>to operate. Any thruster drive is going to be a lot more difficult<BR>and expensive to maintain.<BR><BR>Thruster drives mean you've got to worry about your reaction<BR>mass budget. You have a limited reserve of reaction mass, so<BR>you can never use more than half of it, or you won't be able<BR>to slow back down again. This puts a strict upper limit on<BR>you're maximum velocity and manoeuvreability. Unless of course<BR>you throw the laws of physics out the window (as with HEPLAR),<BR>in which case why not just have thruster drives and be done with?<BR>No messy particle-beam drive exhausts messing things up either.<BR><BR>This means that the vast majority of ships won't be equiped with<BR>high thrust propulsion systems. You'll use a lot more realy big<BR>bulk transports. The economics of small starships will stop<BR>working. Instead of building whole starships with planetary<BR>landing capability, you'll use a lot more sub-craft for planetary<BR>landings, or simply rely on local interface transports.<BR><BR>This will concentrate access to interstellar, and indeed<BR>interplanetary transport, in the hands of governments and<BR>corporations. Both types of transport will also be much more<BR>expensive. This will lead to much greater centralised controll<BR>of economic activity.<BR><BR>&gt;What effect would instantaneous jump have (similar to Human jump =<BR>&gt;technology from The Mote in God's Eye)?<BR><BR>The Imperial government will be a _lot_ more in-your-face. It's<BR>unlikely the Traveller laisez-fair economic and political<BR>model will work. In Traveller the Imperium can't manage the<BR>affairs of individual worlds because the communications<BR>lag means things have to be run localy. Instant comms<BR>makes direct, centralised Interstellar government almost<BR>inevitable.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; As a side note have any of you run or played in a campaign in which =<BR>&gt;certain races (Hiver, Aslan, et al) never existed?&nbsp; If so then what was =<BR>&gt;the effect in those campaigns?<BR><BR>How much impact have these races had on the history of the Imperium?<BR>Not much realy.&nbsp; All they've done is slow human expansion a bit,<BR>but they've had almost nill effect on Imperial internal affairs.<BR><BR><BR>Simon Hibbs<BR><BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--<BR>Before you buy.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:49:49 -0400<BR>From: Bob Kovalchick &lt;Kovalchick@wbgh.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Recall: Vegan<BR><BR>Bob Kovalchick would like to recall the message, "Vegan".<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3209<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (rly-ye04.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.201]) by air-ye01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:56:08 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:55:41 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA73033;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:55:10 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:54:54 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id JAA72981<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:54:54 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:54:54 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010241354.JAA72981@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3209<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3210</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>10/24/00 10:13:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3210<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: First Contact<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Traveller auction on Ebay<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: First Contact<BR>Feudal Technocracy<BR>Re: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>Re: T4's Bucket'o'Dice (Was Re: D20 Task Reslution)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: First Contact<BR>Re: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Re: Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:58:35 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: First Contact<BR><BR>&gt;Ah I get it<BR>&gt;Space is big, REALLY BIG!<BR>&gt;Antony<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but <BR>that's peanuts to space. Listen...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 4<BR><BR>Harrison woke groggily. "Time," he muttered, rubbing his eyes.<BR><BR>The alarm clock on his bed stand responded. "Oh-seven fourty-eight hours on <BR>159-1107."<BR><BR>"Crap!" Harrison cried. He dressed and gathered his belongings. Less than <BR>one hour until the Hyner left port. He had to get to Lunion Down before it <BR>was too late!<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:03:03 -0700<BR>From: "Simon Hibbs" &lt;simonh_hibbs@my-deja.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Ok, in my last post I got mixed up refering to reaction<BR>drives as thruster drives in some places. I hope it was<BR>possible to make sense of it.<BR><BR><BR>Simon<BR><BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--<BR>Before you buy.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:20:49 -0400<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 02:42 PM 10/24/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; And it's not just in Traveller. In the TV show Andromeda, the<BR>&gt; &gt; Long Night was<BR>&gt; &gt; brought about by two stupid acts: Peace with the Magog and a<BR>&gt; &gt; rebellion. If<BR>&gt; &gt; they had been smart, neither would have happened.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ah, Andromeda. I've only just started watching this. Is it just me or is<BR>&gt;Kevin Sorbo now hopelessly typecast as 'man who fights with big stick'?<BR>&gt;There are things I like about Andromeda<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1. Utopian Star Trek style society destroyed.<BR>&gt;Nothing against the Federation personally, but they're so convinced of their<BR>&gt;own moral superiority!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;2. A society based entirely on Nietzsche (Nee-Cha! Not Nee-chee! Sheesh!) :)<BR>&gt;Watchout, my players, for the attack of the Kantians! Traveller already has<BR>&gt;Aristotelians, of course, in the form of the Aslan &lt;dons asbestos<BR>&gt;underpants&gt;.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;3. Everytime I hear someone say 'High Guard' I think of Traveller.<BR><BR>One other parallel to consider...The Commonwealth was attacked by a <BR>genetically enhanced strain of humanity that wanted change, while the First <BR>Empire of Niven and Pournelle was done in by the Saurons and their allies.<BR><BR>All in all, for the first three episodes, not too bad.<BR><BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:23:41 -0500<BR>From: Donald McKinney &lt;dmckinne@amdocs.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller auction on Ebay<BR><BR>This will be the only announcement of this auction to this list.<BR>I'm selling some Traveller items on ebay:<BR><BR>475425826: Scouts &amp; Assassins<BR>Current bid:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $7.50<BR>Auction ends on:&nbsp; &nbsp; Oct-31-00 11:53:15 PST<BR>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=475425826<BR><BR>475447987: Best of the Journal Volume #3 (Traveller)<BR>Current bid:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $6.00<BR>Auction ends on:&nbsp; &nbsp; Oct-31-00 12:21:15 PST<BR>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=475447987<BR><BR>475457123: Imperium (1977 Conflict Game Company edition)<BR>Bidding starts at:&nbsp; $10.00<BR>Auction ends on:&nbsp; &nbsp; Oct-31-00 12:31:32 PST<BR>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=475457123<BR><BR>475429232: Fighting Ships (Traveller Supplement 9)<BR>Bidding starts at:&nbsp; $6.00<BR>Auction ends on:&nbsp; &nbsp; Oct-31-00 12:10:53 PST<BR>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=475429232<BR><BR>Hopefully, someone will give these extra items I have a good home.<BR><BR><BR>DonM.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:44:09 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Now, I've heard that the noise from a shuttle launch can be detrimental<BR>&gt; to health at less than 2000 meters.<BR><BR>Probably (the noise part, not the conspiracy part); the Shuttle's main<BR>engines are LOUD. Worse, they're hydrogen fuelled, which raises the<BR>frequency of the noise considerably, as anyone who's looked for the full<BR>H2 tank by cracking the valve knows.<BR><BR>Noise supression is the main reason that they pump water onto the exhaust<BR>and pad during launch, otherwise the pad and quite possibly the shuttle<BR>would be sonicated to pieces at launch.<BR><BR>It's only a side effect that it produces such impressive huge billows of<BR>smoke and steam<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:42:46 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:10:01 +0100<BR>&gt;From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>[...]<BR>&gt;It took me&nbsp; a&nbsp; little&nbsp; while&nbsp; to&nbsp; realise&nbsp; the&nbsp; error&nbsp; here.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;Schrodinger's Cat effect is not in effect this way.&nbsp; You do *not*<BR>&gt;actually need to look at Mr Kitty to collapse his wave&nbsp; state&nbsp; to<BR>&gt;"alive" or "dead", the action of the Cat/toast drive doubles as a<BR>&gt;measuring&nbsp; device&nbsp; and&nbsp; that&nbsp; has&nbsp; the&nbsp; same&nbsp; effect&nbsp; as&nbsp;&nbsp; direct<BR>&gt;observation.&nbsp; (This *has* been confirmed in RL lab experiments.)<BR>[...]<BR><BR>So, we'll just have to find the Empress to collapse her Wave?<BR><BR>(Sorry, couldn't resist. =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:48:23 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; At 02:42 PM 10/24/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; And it's not just in Traveller. In the TV show Andromeda, the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Long Night was<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; brought about by two stupid acts: Peace with the Magog and a<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; rebellion. If<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; they had been smart, neither would have happened.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Ah, Andromeda. I've only just started watching this. Is it <BR>&gt; just me or is<BR>&gt; &gt;Kevin Sorbo now hopelessly typecast as 'man who fights with <BR>&gt; big stick'?<BR>&gt; &gt;There are things I like about Andromeda<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;1. Utopian Star Trek style society destroyed.<BR>&gt; &gt;Nothing against the Federation personally, but they're so <BR>&gt; convinced of their<BR>&gt; &gt;own moral superiority!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;2. A society based entirely on Nietzsche (Nee-Cha! Not <BR>&gt; Nee-chee! Sheesh!) :)<BR>&gt; &gt;Watchout, my players, for the attack of the Kantians! <BR>&gt; Traveller already has<BR>&gt; &gt;Aristotelians, of course, in the form of the Aslan &lt;dons asbestos<BR>&gt; &gt;underpants&gt;.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;3. Everytime I hear someone say 'High Guard' I think of Traveller.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; One other parallel to consider...The Commonwealth was attacked by a <BR>&gt; genetically enhanced strain of humanity that wanted change, <BR>&gt; while the First <BR>&gt; Empire of Niven and Pournelle was done in by the Saurons and <BR>&gt; their allies.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All in all, for the first three episodes, not too bad.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kurt Feltenberger<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Afraid I missed the first couple of episodes. The genemod<BR>humans...Nietzscheans?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:02:10 -0400<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt; The math isn't all that naty. It just required calculus, which I'm not<BR>&gt; trained in. For the folks who are, it was simple.<BR><BR>Leonard, you seem like a smart guy... unless you've had some sort of <BR>serious cerebral damage between now and the time you learned algebra,<BR>calculus is not too hard. University students who actively attempt<BR>to spend upwards of 50% of their time stone drunk manage to pick up<BR>the basics of it even. Heck, it's taught in high school in some <BR>parts around here.<BR><BR>&gt; The key factor is that as the ship's velocity away for the object it is<BR>&gt; "pushing" on increases, trhe energy required by the drive goes up<BR>&gt; sharply.<BR><BR>Uh, are you talking about Newtonian or relativistic effects here?<BR><BR>Ethan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:07:43 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: First Contact<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Were the Vilani caught watching reruns of Battlestar <BR>&gt; Galactica? Or did they<BR>&gt; think that Star Trek episodes were historical documents?<BR><BR>Wasn't that the premise of 'Galaxy Quest'?<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:45:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Feudal Technocracy<BR><BR>"Right. So a feudal technocracy is a system where the owners of the<BR>society's industrial resources turns over the management of (some of)<BR>their holdings to technical experts in return for their fealthy. Not<BR>necessarily the best qualified expert, but the expert they believe will be<BR>most loyal. "<BR><BR>(I should point out that I wasn't around for the original debate.&nbsp; I've<BR>read some of the old posts and gotten descriptions second hand, but that's<BR>all.&nbsp; Sorry if I hit any raw nerves.)<BR><BR>Right, but such a system could certainly involve testing for expertise. <BR>After all, how do you determine the pool of applicants from which you pick<BR>"the most loyal"?&nbsp; You could just have the Owners pick whoever they want,<BR>but then it basically becomes just "feudal" and not "technocracy". Given<BR>the choice between loyal/incompetent and disloyal/competent, Owners will<BR>pick the former most likely, or they won't be owners for long. This<BR>quickly leads to "government by the loyal" not "government by the<BR>expert". So some sort of testing or other qualification is likely part of<BR>it.<BR><BR>In any case, given the broadness of the definitions of governments in<BR>Traveller, I'd say any system involving government by experts and a<BR>hierarchy of such could be classed under govt type 5, even if it didn't<BR>involve an emphasis on fealty.&nbsp; As with all governments, though, such a<BR>system could also fit under other categories, such as "oligarchy", but<BR>then so could any feudal system.<BR><BR>And I distinctly remember the ancient Chinese government I referred to<BR>being described as a "feudal technocracy", I've never seen the term used<BR>to describe any other real-life government.&nbsp; From what I understand, it<BR>did involve government by experts (people chosen by testing) and a<BR>hierarchy thereof, although of course the Emperor was the real seat of<BR>power. I don't know if the heirarchies were fealty-based, but given the<BR>general nature of Chinese society, it wouldn't surprise me if they were at<BR>least informally so. Such a government could be described as govt type 5,<BR>since that's the layer PCs are most likely to encounter on a daily basis.<BR>Of course, it could also be one of the dictatorship types. <BR><BR>Anyway, not looking for any flamewars, I barely care about this enough to<BR>type out a few paragraphs (and I type fast :-).&nbsp; So if this gets anyone<BR>all riled up (and I find it hard to believe it would), I'll just drop it. <BR><BR>Have a good one,<BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:03:47 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You've overlooked the Schrodinger's Cat effect. Until you actually<BR>&gt; look, the cat is both dead and alive, so the lift you get is an average<BR>&gt; of the dead/alive lift adjusted by the relative probabilities of each<BR>&gt; state...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (I can't believe I just wrote that... Is there a "Gearheads Anonymous"<BR>&gt; chapter around here?)<BR><BR>I'd consider joining one, except for one thing.&nbsp; In my case, the<BR>"admitting I have a problem" refers to the fact that I don't have the<BR>Striker or FF&amp;S (TNE) design sequences....<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:09:01 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: T4's Bucket'o'Dice (Was Re: D20 Task Reslution)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:17:08 +0100<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;D&amp;D has a d20 as its core task resolution mechanic. The third edition is <BR>&gt;called "The d20 system" to reflect this.<BR>&gt;Traveller has 2d6 as its core mechanic. T4's task system sticks out like a <BR>&gt;pasted-on extra thumb. Bucket-of-dice systems were briefly fashionable in <BR>&gt;the late 80s/early 90s, but they are an intrusive mechanic that isn't as <BR>&gt;simple or fun as it looks. And I don't like rolling low...<BR>&gt;Half dice I can get my head around (Star Wars 2e uses a "Wild Die"), but <BR>&gt;having a game system with a bolted-on bucket-of-dice task system that uses <BR>&gt;1/2d for only one roll (the most common) isn't any sort of gain over the <BR>&gt;MegaTraveller task system, which at the very least knew how many dice <BR>&gt;Traveller is based on.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- Rob.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On Monday, October 23, 2000, at 11:10 PM, trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (1)Yes, that includes T4 and its perverse 'half-dice.'<BR><BR>4d6 is hardly a "bucket". A cup maybe, but not a bucket. T5's 6d6 - maybe a <BR>bucket there, but at least Impossible tasks really are (almost) Impossible. <BR>Anyhow, it beats WoD's 10d10 by a mile or two.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 5<BR><BR>Harrison arrived at the starport just in time to see Captain Rokodo <BR>exchanging words with another man. The man wore a uniform, in the front of <BR>which was the Imperial Sunburst. Above it was a patch that read, "Ensign <BR>Jack Robinson, Lunion Customs."<BR><BR>"I've got deadlines to meet!" Rokodo shouted.<BR><BR>"You should have thought of that before you agreed to ship twenty tons of <BR>illegal drugs. I'm afraid we have to take you and your crew into custudy," <BR>Robinson said. He pointed at the Hyner and said, "Say goodbye to your ship. <BR>This'll probably be the last time you'll see her."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:32:07 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:41:20 -0700<BR>&gt; From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; One answer is to simply say that Thruster plates work differently <BR>&gt; than described.&nbsp; What if they are a reaction drive which transforms <BR>&gt; hydrogen into neutrinos which then shoot out the back at the <BR>&gt; speed of light.&nbsp; The drive appears to have no exhaust, can't be used <BR>&gt; a weapon, is safe form planetary landings and works very similarly <BR>&gt; to T-Plates.&nbsp; Also, having 15x the Specific Impulse of HEPlaR <BR>&gt; (having exhaust velocity of C instead of HEPlaR's exhaust velocity <BR>&gt; of 0.13333 C) fuel is rarely a problem.<BR><BR>The problem is that this violates yet another conservation law, in this<BR>case conservation of baryon number.&nbsp; A M/AM drive might work like this,<BR>though.&nbsp; Otherwise, how do you convert hydrogen to neutrinos?<BR><BR>The only handwave for T-plates I've managed to come up with involves<BR>technology well beyond Imperial levels.&nbsp; What if the drive can reach out<BR>arbitrarily far into space, find particles which happen to be at rest<BR>relative to the ship, and 'push' on them for reaction mass?&nbsp; This would<BR>imply Greg Bear-ish access to the 'internals of reality' to find and push<BR>such particles.&nbsp; If you put a reasonable limit on how far the reaction<BR>particles can be from the ship (say, a few parsecs), then you end up<BR>hitting a speed limit at some fraction of c, since there won't be enough<BR>particles travelling that fast relative to the local galactic environment<BR>to push on.&nbsp; I call this the Mach Drive, since it depends on a locally<BR>defined 'prefered frame'.<BR><BR>&gt; I'd keep contragrav for low orbit vessels and air-rafts, and use <BR>&gt; realistic equations where increased speed = increased energy <BR>&gt; usage for contra-grav drives (as well as having them greatly <BR>&gt; decrease in thrust as they get away from a planet).&nbsp; Can anyone <BR>&gt; punch any holes in this setup? I'm assuming that the hydrogen to <BR>&gt; neutrino converter can *only* be used to convert matter into <BR>&gt; neutrinos, and so can't be used as a weapon.<BR><BR>The LoUU says otherwise. :)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:50:22 -0500<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>&gt;From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just<BR>&gt;&gt;get rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Reactionless drives give much more of a far future feel than fusion <BR>&gt;rockets.&nbsp; Also, HEPlaR makes *way* too good a weapon (*far* <BR>&gt;better than any other weapons useable on small starships).&nbsp; <BR><BR>HEPlaR is only a good weapon if you ignore the handwaves in TNE ;)<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:56:34 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; It's well-known that anyone who uses dice with greater or<BR>&gt; &gt; fewer(1) than six-sides is some kind of weirdo.&nbsp; Nothing<BR>&gt; &gt; more need be said.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, you would go against Marc Miller? After all, he was part<BR>&gt; of the team that created T4 wasn't he? T5 uses half-dice,<BR>&gt; doesn't it?<BR><BR>I didn't get on well with T4.&nbsp; I've tried carefully cutting&nbsp; some<BR>of my dice in half but then they didn't roll properly.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:07:43 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:03 +0800<BR>&gt; From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I believe this has been dealt with before but I cant find it in my<BR>&gt; records.&nbsp; First contact between Terrans and Vilani is supposed to have<BR>&gt; taken part following the first mission to Barnard's Star from Earth. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Were the Vilani caught watching reruns of Battlestar Galactica? Or did<BR>&gt; they think that Star Trek episodes were historical documents? <BR><BR>Actually, they were watching "Chicago Hope", and frantically scribbling<BR>medical and biological insights. :)<BR><BR>&gt; Earth is, and has been since the 50s being pumping huge amount of TV and<BR>&gt; radio signals straight into space. Surely Vilani sensors of the period<BR>&gt; could pick these signals up. <BR><BR>This is one of the arguments that comes up from time to time on the TML --<BR>was "first contact" really first contact, on either side?&nbsp; I'm with you on<BR>this issue.&nbsp; The Vilani couldn't possibly have missed the presence of<BR>Terra.&nbsp; It is difficult to imagine that a few well-cloaked scout ships<BR>hadn't already done recon on Terra in the years leading up to the<BR>'official' first contact.&nbsp; Less certain but intriguing is the possibility<BR>that the UN also knew about the Vilani, who presumably were leaking<BR>signals of their own (or perhaps were caught peeking during one of those<BR>surveillance missions).<BR><BR>So, why was "official" contact delayed?&nbsp; That's relatively easy to<BR>explain.&nbsp; Recall that this was a period of precarious stability for the<BR>Ziru Sirka.&nbsp; Provincial governors were jockeying for power and support. <BR>If reporting a new high-population, ambitious, aggressive world just on<BR>the edge of star travel would cause more problems than it would solve for<BR>the Vilani governor, the information might well be conveniently 'misfiled'<BR>for decades; after all, the central government had enough problems without<BR>auditing exploration records from the rimward frontier.&nbsp; Much like a<BR>hornet nest, the Terrans would be left alone, a nagging problem to be<BR>solved by whoever sat in the governor's office next.&nbsp; The Vilani wouldn't<BR>expect the Terrans to advance as quickly as they did. <BR><BR>Similarly, if the Terrans discovered the Vilani, and especially if the<BR>surveillance flights were discovered, one can well imagine the reasoning<BR>that kept this information secret.&nbsp; After all, telling the people of Terra<BR>that a vast, technologically superior empire was covertly monitoring us<BR>would not be good for morale or stability.&nbsp; But the UN had to know that<BR>overt contact would come sooner or later.&nbsp; So they targeted an early jump<BR>ship for Barnard's Star, where the Vilani were known to have a permanent<BR>presence.&nbsp; Consider the psychological advantages of our 'discovering' them<BR>actively, on their territory, using our starships.&nbsp; It makes us look like<BR>their equals.&nbsp; I believe this initial mindset was the key to early Terran<BR>successes in diplomacy and then war against the Vilani.<BR><BR>Needless to say, given the pace of all things Vilani, one can easily<BR>speculate that the 'wait and watch' approach to Terra was centuries old by<BR>the time of the Barnard expedition.&nbsp; Perhaps the Roswell crash was a<BR>critical piloting failure by some hapless Vilani scout, and that was our<BR>first conclusive evidence of their existence...<BR><BR>&gt; Then their were the Pioneer and Voyager series probes. Which thoughtfully<BR>&gt; provided the location and population figures for the planet Earth. Suppose<BR>&gt; one of these was intercepted?<BR><BR>These probes won't even clear the inner Oort cloud for centuries.&nbsp; If<BR>you're close enough to Sol to scoop 'em up, you're already practically<BR>here.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:12:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Oh, and Teleprojection (teleporting others) is just _nasty_.&nbsp; Another<BR>&gt;&gt;instant death power if not checked in some way.&nbsp; This is harder to limit<BR>&gt;&gt;plausibly, IMO.&nbsp; You can rule that the subject has to be willing, but that<BR>&gt;&gt;just "feels" too arbitrary.&nbsp; Maybe if you can only do it with objects.<BR>&gt;&gt;But then, can you teleport the object into another being?&nbsp; Yeesh. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I limit "teleporting other" to Psi level in kg, and teleporting into<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; solids is impossible.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, to be usable at *all* you have to be able to teleport<BR>into fluids that that are surrounded by solids (otherwise you can't<BR>port into or out of a room with a locked door).<BR><BR>And that means I can kill you with a handful of rice (or even dirt).<BR>Just port it into the heart or lungs.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:34:01 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I recently came across this neat article on the web regarding "20 ways the<BR>&gt; world could end":<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.discover.com/oct_00/featworld.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The one that caught my eye was the "collapse of the vacuum".&nbsp; It seems<BR>&gt; that just after the big bang empty space was full of energy, but it was<BR>&gt; unstable.&nbsp; This unstable vacuum collapsed into the form we have now.<BR>&gt; However, there's no saying whether what we have now is the _most_ stable<BR>&gt; form of vacuum.&nbsp; And...well I might as well quote the article:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; " It is possible that another, even more stable kind of vacuum exists,<BR>&gt; however. As the universe expands and cools, tiny bubbles of this new kind<BR>&gt; of vacuum might appear and spread at nearly the speed of light. The laws<BR>&gt; of physics would change in their wake, and a blast of energy would dash<BR>&gt; everything to bits."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Cool!&nbsp; Okay, so, as any gamer worth his salt is thinking by now: How do we<BR>&gt; turn this into a weapon?!&nbsp; If one could speed the process locally to<BR>&gt; produce and expanding bubble of collapsed vaccuum, that would make a<BR>&gt; terrifying trans-stellar weapon of mass destruction. Star-trigger,<BR>&gt; Schmar-trigger!&nbsp; Of course, it's a MAD weapon, at least in the long<BR>&gt; term...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The only problem is, it's not immediately obvious how you trick some<BR>&gt; volume of the universe into thinking that the whole thing is "cooler" than<BR>&gt; it really is. :-)<BR><BR>Actually, it's thought that *if* this is possible, the current state is<BR>"metastable". That is, to get to the lower energy state, you have to<BR>get past an energy "hump". Or in this case, an energy *density* hump<BR>(you can think of it as a "temperature").<BR><BR>So you need to produce (at least) more energy per cc than a quasar or<BR>supernova. Which actually isn't as hard as it sounds, since you merely<BR>need to do it over a *tiny* volume.<BR><BR>There was some speculation that some of the most recent generation of<BR>particle accelerators (the ones that can "reach energies not seen since<BR>the Big Bang") could trigger such a thing.<BR><BR>&gt; This would also make a good Empire-wrecking disaster, if you needed one.<BR><BR>The problem is that such a state transition would wreck the *universe*.<BR>And it's *utterly* guaranteed that no life forms would survive. Hell,<BR>*matter* probably wouldn't survive (not as matter, anyway).<BR><BR>This would be a change of the same degree as when matter &amp; energy<BR>"de-coupled" in the early stages of the Big Bang.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:44:51 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Re: Playing with^h^h^h^h Yourself (was Re: On To The Far Future)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Mike Peters wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; One of my faveorite Traveller illos was of an over weight gentle being in a<BR>&gt;&gt;loud Hawaiian shirt firing a weapon I always figured for a snub pistol,<BR>&gt;&gt;or some such. It was in one of the early JTAS'. Now, I hate to say it, but<BR>&gt;&gt;given a pair of shorts and a hawian shirt I could model for that pic.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That pic is also in 'The Traveller Book' and is one of my favorite visual <BR>&gt; demos of the difference between typical PCs in Trav vs *D&amp;D (or pretty much <BR>&gt; every other RPG, except 'Call of Cthulhu').<BR><BR>While it's not an RPG, I *have* to mention "Buck Godot". :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:22:30 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;It's well-known that anyone who uses dice with greater or fewer(1) than <BR>&gt;&gt;six-sides is some kind of weirdo.&nbsp; Nothing more need be said.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So, you would go against Marc Miller? After all, he was part of the team <BR>&gt; that created T4 wasn't he? T5 uses half-dice, doesn't it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And what of Gary Gygax, who started the whole RPG thing rolling?<BR><BR>Heck, *gamers* are weirdoes. As any non-gamer. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Except this -- Orthodox dice have spots, not numbers, and only follow two <BR>&gt;&gt;color schemes(2): 1) white with black spots, or 2) black with red spots.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I'll have to show you my pair of 8-sided dice. Ivory white, black<BR>spots, and nicely rounded edges &amp; points. Other than the fact that they<BR>were 8-sided, they looked like high quality "casino" dice.<BR><BR>We "adjusted" the rules for craps and were having fun shooting craps<BR>while we waited for the store to close so the game could start. You get<BR>*really* strange looks when someone here's the rattling of dice<BR>followed by "Thirteen's your point..."<BR><BR>BTW, as for six siders, you forgot transparent red or green with white<BR>spots... <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;(2)In an emergency, other color schemes (such as red with black or white <BR>&gt;&gt;spots) may be used, but under no circumstances are dice with 'fancy' faces <BR>&gt;&gt;(diamond shaped spots, skulls in place of 1s, etc.) acceptable.<BR><BR>How about black with red spots, but with an Imperial sunburst instead<BR>of the 1? I've got a dozen of those. They were sold as *official*<BR>Traveller dice. Though I have to admit that they saw more use as<BR>"damage dice" inm my D&amp;D games. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3210<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.227]) by air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:13:18 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:12:38 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA90085;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:11:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:10:52 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA89978<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:10:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:10:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010241710.NAA89978@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3210<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3211<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>FYI<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: Historical Bias<BR>RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: First Contact<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:41:24 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; (Sorry, forgot to add this to my other post before sending it; thought I'd <BR>&gt; change the subject line while I was at it.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh yes, and Ken Shardik does have a bad case of Lazarus Long Syndrome, too.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; ;)<BR><BR>And your point is?<BR><BR>:-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:17:15 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:42 +0800<BR>&gt; From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If HEPlaR is a plasma rocket, then surely the exhaust would be<BR>&gt; dissipating the moment it exited the exhaust port, like the plasma and<BR>&gt; fusion guns.&nbsp; Giving a very limited range for use as a weapon. <BR><BR>Quite true.&nbsp; The exhaust would be dangerous for hundreds of km, but that's<BR>nothing compared to space combat ranges.<BR><BR>&gt; Incidentally if a space shuttle took off from the centre of a city any idea<BR>&gt; how much damage would be done?<BR><BR>Quite a lot, but more from turbulent overpressure waves than the fire of<BR>the exhaust itself.&nbsp; You'd mostly get a whole lot of broken windows, and<BR>popped eardrums if people were nearby.<BR><BR>&gt; The problem is not with the drives being able to vaporise a city, but<BR>&gt; the location that starports seem to occupy. It would also explain the<BR>&gt; ring structures around launch pads. If we can accept super thrusters<BR>&gt; like HEPlar then why not super refractories as well. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Also on the subject of the circular donut enclosed launched pads if<BR>&gt; T-plates are so benign why would so many of the pads needs these<BR>&gt; devices. <BR><BR>My view on this is that the safety measures are not intended for ships in<BR>normal operation, but rather to protect against the effects of a<BR>malfunction.&nbsp; We all know how good the maintenance is on most small ships<BR>in the 3I. :)&nbsp; If a poorly-maintained coolant line blows, or a seemingly<BR>innocent cargo module turns out to contain a bomb, better to lose a single<BR>landing bay than that whole end of the port.<BR><BR>Alternatively, depending on how you tweak the drive vs. tech level<BR>progression, it could be the case that older ports date from a time when<BR>reaction drives were still common, and have never seen the need to<BR>redesign the facilities.&nbsp; Newer ports would look more like a large<BR>airport.&nbsp; Or you could have the blast protection design just be a silly<BR>regulation that never got taken off the books, so ports still look that<BR>way but everyone knows it's absurd. :)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:28:26 -0500<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: FYI<BR><BR>Since this list has a higher percentage of alpha-geeks than almost any<BR>other place I know, I thought I would draw your attention to the SJ Games<BR>Jobs page:<BR><BR>http://www.sjgames.com/general/jobs.html<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:27:36 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:11:04 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Marrooned in Realtime" makes it clear that you can bobble for<BR>&gt; multi-million year timespans. Even if the Peacers did it by mistake. :-)<BR><BR>It's been a while since I read that, but my hazy memory has long-term<BR>bobbling being done by bobbling forward a few centuries at a time at most,<BR>and just immediately re-bobbling if it's not time to wake up yet.&nbsp; Are<BR>there instances of longer-term bobbles that I'm forgetting?<BR><BR>&gt; A bobbler would make an interesting "Ancient artifact". <BR><BR>Oh, my...yes it would indeed. :)&nbsp; Just be sure to limit the bobble size,<BR>range, and number of uses ("I'm sorry, but you just can't seem to find a<BR>replacement TL-28 battery...") unless you want the PCs to rule known<BR>space.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:44:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>"The problem is that such a state transition would wreck the *universe*. <BR>And it's *utterly* guaranteed that no life forms would survive. Hell,<BR>*matter* probably wouldn't survive (not as matter, anyway)." <BR><BR>Do you mean it would wreck the whole universe at once?&nbsp; My impression from<BR>the article is that there would be an expanding bubble of collapsed<BR>vacuum, growing at the speed of light.&nbsp; This would mean the eventual<BR>destruction of the universe, but with FTL travel there'd be plenty of time<BR>to "run away! run away!"&nbsp; Could be an interesting idea for a "human<BR>diaspora" setting. <BR><BR>Mind you, it's hard to see how you could find out about the phenomenon w/o<BR>getting caught up in it...oh wait, with FTL you'd know due to the lack of<BR>FTL signal (craft in Traveller) coming out of the space which had<BR>collapsed. Also, it's only supposed to travel at "near C", so there would<BR>be an energy wave running ahead of it. <BR><BR>Now, admittedly this would be a kind of grim universe, with eventual doom<BR>virtually certain, but some people are into that kind of thing.&nbsp; And of<BR>course, the PCs could find some ancient technomagical doohickey to undo<BR>the disaster...<BR><BR>Hmm, if all it takes is a really big kickin' particle accelerator, then<BR>I'd be worried that just such a bubble was heading our way right now. <BR>This bring to mind a "why haven't they blown the crap out of everything<BR>yet?" version of the Fermi Paradox.&nbsp; :-) <BR><BR>Have a good one,<BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:57:03 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Historical Bias<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:19:02 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&gt; From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; History is, of course, written by the victors, and the Third Imperium had<BR>&gt; a lot to gain by portraying itself as the "uniquely legitimate successor"<BR>&gt; to the First Imperium and the Rule-of-Man.&nbsp; I've always assumed that there<BR>&gt; were quite a few proto-Imperial experiments during the Long Night which,<BR>&gt; for one reason or another, just didn't quite get big enough or last long<BR>&gt; enough.&nbsp; Subsector-sized pocket empires would have been a-dime-a-dozen,<BR>&gt; and there would have been at least a couple of sector-sized "brown-dwarf<BR>&gt; Imperia" at any given time.&nbsp; The Third Imperium, however, likes people to<BR>&gt; think that its success was *not* just a lucky accident of history, so it<BR>&gt; paints the Long Night as being bleaker than it really was, and portrays<BR>&gt; all of those "Third Imperia that might have been" as being smaller,<BR>&gt; weaker, and far more backward and barbarous than they really were.<BR><BR>I'm coming to consider this to be 'the answer'; it makes a great deal of<BR>sense.&nbsp; And while it's not as bleak as the 3I histories make it out to be,<BR>it's worse in the sense that century after century, hopes were raised only<BR>to come crashing down again.&nbsp; Imagine a marginal world, squeaking by on<BR>patched technology and improvisation, welcoming the first ship from an<BR>expanding new state; promises of assistance are made, and a few of them<BR>even fulfilled...then the ships start arriving less and less often, with<BR>reports of "a little difficulty" on the opposite border drawing away<BR>attention and resources...the advisors are withdrawn, one by one, crucial<BR>deliveries are missed...and then a final, damaged ship limps in, collects<BR>the remaining staff, and laboriously climbs away, disappearing into jump.<BR><BR>And then nothing, for decades, until a new, expansionist state's first<BR>scoutship arrives...<BR><BR>Brrr.<BR><BR>Much as others have cited "Land of Confusion" by Genesis as capturing the<BR>feel of the Rebellion and Black War period, I find myself thinking of<BR>Matthew Arnold's "Dover Beach" when I picture the Long Night.&nbsp; I hope<BR>nobody will mind if I include it here; it is one of my favorite poems, and<BR>everyone should read it.&nbsp; So there.<BR><BR>DOVER BEACH<BR><BR>By Matthew Arnold<BR><BR>The sea is calm tonight, <BR>The tide is full, the moon lies fair <BR>Upon the straits; on the French coast the light <BR>Gleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand, <BR>Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay. <BR>Come to the window, sweet is the night air! <BR>Only, from the long line of spray <BR>Where the sea meets the moon-blanched land, <BR>Listen! you hear the grating roar <BR>Of pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling, <BR>At their return, up the high strand, <BR>Begin, and cease, and then again begin, <BR>With tremulous cadence slow, and bring <BR>The eternal note of sadness in. <BR><BR>Sophocles long ago <BR>Heard it on the Agean, and it brought <BR>Into his mind the turbid ebb and flow <BR>Of human misery; we <BR>Find also in the sound a thought, <BR>Hearing it by this distant northern sea. <BR><BR>The Sea of Faith <BR>Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore <BR>Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled. <BR>But now I only hear <BR>Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar, <BR>Retreating, to the breath <BR>Of the night wind, down the vast edges drear <BR>And naked shingles of the world. <BR><BR>Ah, love, let us be true <BR>To one another! for the world, which seems <BR>To lie before us like a land of dreams, <BR>So various, so beautiful, so new, <BR>Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light, <BR>Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain; <BR>And we are here as on a darkling plain <BR>Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, <BR>Where ignorant armies clash by night. <BR><BR>(1867)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:58:54 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Oxford Concise Dictionary defines Technocracy as the "Organization<BR>&gt; and management of a country's industrial resources by <BR>&gt; technical experts<BR>&gt; for the good of the whole community."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And we all know what "feudal" means, right?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now, there, wasn't that easy? :-)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;Springmail.105.972339024.0.26076500@www.springmail.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>As I play many different RPGs, I have evolved a simple system: I use d100 <BR>for EVERYTHING. You can extract virtually any range from that with a bit <BR>of simple arithmetic, and it means that I don't have to carry loads of <BR>different-shaped dice around :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;012501c03d45$34a2dbe0$ad09fad1@legate&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Gog &amp; Magog are 2 giants from Welsh folklore, Legate.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:03:40 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:34:01 PST<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I recently came across this neat article on the web regarding "20 ways <BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt; &gt; world could end":<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; http://www.discover.com/oct_00/featworld.html<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The one that caught my eye was the "collapse of the vacuum".&nbsp; It seems<BR>&gt; &gt; that just after the big bang empty space was full of energy, but it was<BR>&gt; &gt; unstable.&nbsp; This unstable vacuum collapsed into the form we have now.<BR>&gt; &gt; However, there's no saying whether what we have now is the _most_ stable<BR>&gt; &gt; form of vacuum.&nbsp; And...well I might as well quote the article:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; " It is possible that another, even more stable kind of vacuum exists,<BR>&gt; &gt; however. As the universe expands and cools, tiny bubbles of this new <BR>&gt;kind<BR>&gt; &gt; of vacuum might appear and spread at nearly the speed of light. The laws<BR>&gt; &gt; of physics would change in their wake, and a blast of energy would dash<BR>&gt; &gt; everything to bits."<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Cool!&nbsp; Okay, so, as any gamer worth his salt is thinking by now: How do <BR>&gt;we<BR>&gt; &gt; turn this into a weapon?!&nbsp; If one could speed the process locally to<BR>&gt; &gt; produce and expanding bubble of collapsed vaccuum, that would make a<BR>&gt; &gt; terrifying trans-stellar weapon of mass destruction. Star-trigger,<BR>&gt; &gt; Schmar-trigger!&nbsp; Of course, it's a MAD weapon, at least in the long<BR>&gt; &gt; term...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The only problem is, it's not immediately obvious how you trick some<BR>&gt; &gt; volume of the universe into thinking that the whole thing is "cooler" <BR>&gt;than<BR>&gt; &gt; it really is. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, it's thought that *if* this is possible, the current state is<BR>&gt;"metastable". That is, to get to the lower energy state, you have to<BR>&gt;get past an energy "hump". Or in this case, an energy *density* hump<BR>&gt;(you can think of it as a "temperature").<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;...&gt;<BR><BR>Personally, I see this as complete nonsense. There's only one type of (true) <BR>vacuum: the total lack of matter. Right? That's what I've always thought a <BR>vacuum was (besides being the thing that you clean the carpet with (There. I <BR>beat you to it!)).<BR><BR>Of course, nowhere in this universe can you find a _true_ vacuum. If matter <BR>is anywhere within the so-called vacuum, it's not a _true_ vacuum. This <BR>means that there is no way to measure a vacuum because inserting a ruler <BR>would mean that it is no longer a vacuum. And if the "vacuum" is surrounded <BR>by matter, it's not a true vacuum.<BR><BR>I don't know what a vacuum is to the rest of you, but to me, a _true_ vacuum <BR>is an infinite expanse of nothingness. No matter and no energy. (Correct me <BR>if I'm wrong, but isn't energy just matter's potential for motion? If so, <BR>then without matter, there can be no energy.)<BR><BR>Then again, I could be wrong about all of this entirely. I'm sure you'll <BR>correct me if I am.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen (who joined the list to talk about Traveller and ended up <BR>debating about science)<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 6<BR><BR>"I'm sorry you had to get involved in all of this," Rokodo said. He and <BR>Harrison now resided in the Lunion Planetary Prison. Rokodo had plead guilty <BR>and managed to get a sentence of only four days, but his ship was gone now <BR>and Harrison, an innocent man, was imprisoned.<BR><BR>Harrison sighed. "I should have expected something like this," he said, <BR>"Nothing's ever gone well for me. Ever."<BR><BR>"We're not finished yet," Rokodo said. "I have some friends. They can get me <BR>a new ship as soon as we're out of here. You're welcome to stay along as <BR>sales manager. Maybe you can keep this from happening again."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:06:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; One answer is to simply say that Thruster plates work differently <BR>&gt;&gt; than described.&nbsp; What if they are a reaction drive which transforms <BR>&gt;&gt; hydrogen into neutrinos which then shoot out the back at the <BR>&gt;&gt; speed of light.&nbsp; The drive appears to have no exhaust, can't be used <BR>&gt;&gt; a weapon, is safe form planetary landings and works very similarly <BR>&gt;&gt; to T-Plates.&nbsp; Also, having 15x the Specific Impulse of HEPlaR <BR>&gt;&gt; (having exhaust velocity of C instead of HEPlaR's exhaust velocity <BR>&gt;&gt; of 0.13333 C) fuel is rarely a problem.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Devoting a mere 5% of a vessel's volume to reaction mass gives <BR>&gt;&gt; you 75 G-hours which is enough to make a constant 1-G <BR>&gt;&gt; acceleration round trip journey from Earth to Mars.&nbsp; Doubling the <BR>&gt;&gt; size of the reaction mass tank to 10% of the ship's volume gives <BR>&gt;&gt; you 150 G-hours which should be enough for any reasonable use <BR>&gt;&gt; (but neatly avoids the worst of the near-C rock problem).&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Btw, having read that the neutrino flux near a supernova can be <BR>&gt;&gt; lethal (an idea which really impresses me), does anyone know if <BR>&gt;&gt; the neutrino flux I'm postulating would be at all harmful?&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; If not, then <BR>&gt;&gt; you have an engine which produces vast amounts of thrust and <BR>&gt;&gt; produces only a cool-looking blue glow.&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; I'd keep contragrav for low orbit vessels and air-rafts, and use <BR>&gt;&gt; realistic equations where increased speed = increased energy <BR>&gt;&gt; usage for contra-grav drives (as well as having them greatly <BR>&gt;&gt; decrease in thrust as they get away from a planet).&nbsp; Can anyone <BR>&gt;&gt; punch any holes in this setup? I'm assuming that the hydrogen to <BR>&gt;&gt; neutrino converter can *only* be used to convert matter into <BR>&gt;&gt; neutrinos, and so can't be used as a weapon.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nice idea, but...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A Hydrogen to Neutrino converter is a fusion power plant...<BR><BR>A very low efficiency one.<BR><BR>&gt; How do you 'direct' the neutrinos out of the back of the craft?<BR><BR>That *is* the trick. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; Do neutrinos have the mass required to provide thrust? <BR><BR>You don't need *mass* to provide thrust, just *momentum*. <BR><BR>The momentum of the exhaust, and the momentum of the ship have to be<BR>equal and opposite.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:08:54 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Incidentally if a space shuttle took off from the centre of a <BR>&gt;&gt; city any idea<BR>&gt;&gt; how much damage would be done? <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As I understand it, the exhaust from the Solid Rocket Boosters is fairly<BR>&gt; toxic, so you don't want it being emitted all over your nice shiny<BR>&gt; downtown...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Otherwise, unless it actually exploded on the launch pad, there wouldn't<BR>&gt; be any actual *physical*&nbsp; damage more than a few metres away from the<BR>&gt; launch pad<BR><BR>For rather large values of "few".<BR><BR>The exhaust alone is pretty damaging for tens of meters. *Especially*<BR>if you don't have that huge exhaust deflector to direct most of it thru<BR>the trenches and away from stuff.<BR><BR>The main reason they don't have to rebuild the pad after every launch<BR>is that they dump a few milliomn gallons of water over everything as<BR>the launch is taking place.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:23:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Wouldn't the fellow on the receiving end need the proper equipment to<BR>&gt; determine the nature of the signal?&nbsp; For instance, the Vilani might<BR>&gt; pick up radio signals which are obviously intelligent in origin (no<BR>&gt; snickering!), but without a television set built to industry standards,<BR>&gt; they'd never know what exactly those signals represent.<BR><BR>More to the point, consider that if you are listening to the frequency<BR>for, say "channel 2", you'll be getting *all* the programs being shown<BR>on *all* the "channel 2" stations in the US &amp; Canada. At the *same*<BR>time. Since they are on several different networks, there won't be *a*<BR>program to pick up. And from 3-4 timezones at once!<BR><BR>We've got 6 networks, times 3 timezones, which gives *18* different<BR>programs all at the same time. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:11:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; If HEPlaR is a plasma rocket, then surely the exhaust would be dissipating<BR>&gt; the moment it exited the exhaust port, like the plasma and fusion guns.<BR>&gt; Giving a very limited range for use as a weapon.<BR><BR>Sorry, but to function, it has to be a *jet*. Which means it'll stay<BR>together for quite some distance. The guns don't do that because they<BR>don't *want* the thrust.<BR><BR>Consider that someone has worked out the exhaust velocity of a HEPlaR<BR>as 13% of c (39,000 km/sec). That means that if it takes only a<BR>*millisecond* for the exhaust to double in width, the exhaust would be<BR>39 km from the nozzle by the time it'd doubled in width. <BR><BR>&gt; Incidentally if a space shuttle took off from the centre of a city any idea<BR>&gt; how much damage would be done?<BR><BR>A lot. It'd start massive fires for one thing. And probably demolish<BR>every building within a hundred yards. Hell, the *sound levels* are<BR>capable of doing damage almost that far!<BR><BR>&gt; The problem is not with the drives being able to vaporise a city, but<BR>&gt; the location that starports seem to occupy.<BR><BR>Not true. You see, the "more efficient" the drive, the higher the<BR>*power* level. As I recall, the Space Shuttle Main Engines (SSME) are<BR>producing *gigawatts* of power.<BR><BR>HEPlaR is millions of times more powerful.<BR><BR>&gt; It would also explain the ring structures around launch pads. If we<BR>&gt; can accept super thrusters like HEPlar then why not super<BR>&gt; refractories as well.<BR><BR>Because HEPlaR only "bends" the laws of physics a bit. Stuff that can<BR>survive *close* exposure to the exhaust is a *much* bigger problem. For<BR>one thing, it'd be able to shrug off laser and particle beam attacks.<BR>Which changes things a lot in combat.<BR><BR>Also, you have the problem of that heat and the *sound* merely being<BR>*deflected*. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:30:40 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Pendor (was Re: Albedo using CT)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I haven't encountered that. Usually it's people who are having a hard time <BR>&gt; facing up to what they are or just wish they were something else. A security <BR>&gt; blanket.<BR>&gt; Humans are the scourge of the planet anyway, you don't need to be a furfen <BR>&gt; to see that. ;-)<BR><BR>I sometimes point out to people that the *worst* ecological disaster in<BR>the history of the planet was when some organisms started polluting the<BR>air and water with a highly toxic, highly corrosive chemical. <BR><BR>This resulted in most species either going extinct or being forced into<BR>marginalized existence in places where they were able to avoid exposure<BR>to the toxin. <BR><BR>And it also resulted in major changes in the landscape as the chemical<BR>ate away at rocks, greatly increasing erosion. <BR><BR>And the chemical blocked a huge amount of the sun's light, darkening<BR>the skies.<BR><BR>I refer, of course, to the "discovery" of photosynthesis by algae, and<BR>the resulting release of oxygen into the atmosphere. <BR><BR>We'd have to really *work* to do anything *approaching* that much<BR>damage to the ecosystems on earth.<BR><BR>And at that, neither that nor anything we can do is likely to affect<BR>90% of the life on earth. Namely the 90% or so of the biomass that is<BR>bacteria living in deep rock formations.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:28:35 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (I can't believe I just wrote that... Is there a "Gearheads<BR>&gt; &gt; Anonymous" chapter around here?)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Would that have 12 steps, or just 2d6?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 7<BR><BR>It was six days after Harrison's release from prison before Rodoko appeared <BR>at Harrison's hotel door. "Hello," Harrison said. "Come in."<BR><BR>"Good day, Mr. Harrison," he said. "No time for that. I just came by to say <BR>that I've got a new ship and to ask if you're still interested in being a <BR>member of my crew."<BR><BR>"Of course, Captain Rokodo," he said. "When do I start?" A feeling of relief <BR>swept across him. Maybe things were changing for him after all!<BR><BR>Rokodo smiled and said, "Right now."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:32:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>Oddly enough, I believe both those fellows are also mentioned in the<BR>Book of Revelation.<BR><BR>- --- Megan Robertson &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;012501c03d45$34a2dbe0$ad09fad1@legate&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Gog &amp; Magog are 2 giants from Welsh folklore, Legate.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mexal. <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:52:37 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR><BR>Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The Oxford Concise Dictionary defines Technocracy as the "Organization<BR>&gt; &gt; and management of a country's industrial resources by<BR>&gt; &gt; technical experts<BR>&gt; &gt; for the good of the whole community."<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; And we all know what "feudal" means, right?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Now, there, wasn't that easy? :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR><BR>Ahhh, so a FT is 'Rule by BOFH' ;-)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3211<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3212<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: First Contact<BR>RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR>St. John of Cardiff<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>I need...<BR>Hagfish<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: I need...<BR>Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: T4's Bucket'o'Dice (Was Re: D20 Task Reslution)<BR>Loren!!!!&nbsp; Your JTAS editorial<BR>Susan Ivanova (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205)<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Special PSI Powers (and the Law of Unintended Uses)<BR>Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:58:20 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>&gt;From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;CC: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In-Reply-To: &lt;Springmail.105.972339024.0.26076500@www.springmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;As I play many different RPGs, I have evolved a simple system: I use d100<BR>&gt;for EVERYTHING. You can extract virtually any range from that with a bit<BR>&gt;of simple arithmetic, and it means that I don't have to carry loads of<BR>&gt;different-shaped dice around :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Mexal.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Interesting. Do you use it even for damage?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 8<BR><BR>Once aboard Rodoko's new ship, the EijAnr (an ancient Vilani word he was <BR>told), Harrison was introduced to the rest of the crew. There were only two <BR>crew memebers other than Harrison and Rodoko, Zacc and Melissa. Zacc's <BR>primary function was that of pilot, but during a jump, when flying the ship <BR>isn't necessary, he served as the steward for the crew and passengers. <BR>Likewise, although Melissa's official position was as engineer, she would <BR>often double as the ship's medic.<BR><BR>Zacc was the wild sort, never taking things too seriously, and never taking <BR>time to come his hair. Melissa, as Harrison was informed, was a pureblood <BR>Vilani and showed many of her ancestor's tendencies toward tradition. Other <BR>than that, she was witty, attractive, smart, attractive, talented, and <BR>attractive, Harrison noted.<BR><BR>This was definitely a good day.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:03:21 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>Mexal wrote:<BR>&gt; As I play many different RPGs, I have evolved a simple system: I use d100 <BR>&gt;for EVERYTHING. You can extract virtually any range from that with a bit <BR>&gt;of simple arithmetic, and it means that I don't have to carry loads of <BR>&gt;different-shaped dice around :-)<BR><BR>Do you use 2D10 (or 2D20 if you're old-fashioned) or do you use one of those massive golf-ball things that Lou Zocchi used to sell (the "Zocchihedron," IIRC)?<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:26:12 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Wouldn't the fellow on the receiving end need the proper equipment to<BR>&gt; &gt; determine the nature of the signal?&nbsp; For instance, the Vilani might<BR>&gt; &gt; pick up radio signals which are obviously intelligent in origin (no<BR>&gt; &gt; snickering!), but without a television set built to industry standards,<BR>&gt; &gt; they'd never know what exactly those signals represent.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; More to the point, consider that if you are listening to the frequency<BR>&gt; for, say "channel 2", you'll be getting *all* the programs being shown<BR>&gt; on *all* the "channel 2" stations in the US &amp; Canada. At the *same*<BR>&gt; time. Since they are on several different networks, there won't be *a*<BR>&gt; program to pick up. And from 3-4 timezones at once!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; We've got 6 networks, times 3 timezones, which gives *18* different<BR>&gt; programs all at the same time.<BR><BR>Oh, and even so, a Vilani observer would only see short bits of the 18 North<BR>American networks at a time, since the Earth revolves around its own axis<BR>once every 24 hours. Thus the North American continent doesn't point in the<BR>same direction at all times. The rest of the time you probably get a mixture<BR>of European channels, Russian channels, Chinese channels, Japanese channels,<BR>South-East Asian channels, North, Middle or South African channels, Middle<BR>or South American or Australian channels (depending on where you are when<BR>"watching" TV from lightyears away).<BR><BR>Doppler effect due to the Earths movement around the sun may also make the<BR>channels move around in the spectrum, making it difficult to tune in unless<BR>you know what distance from Sol the Earth is revolving at. It might be<BR>possible to compensate for this movement by traveling around the Sun at<BR>ridiculous speed (more insanely ridiculous the further away from Sol you<BR>are) while listening in. But all in all, try not to live too far from<BR>(preferably much less than 1 light second away) the broadcasting point of a<BR>TV channel.<BR><BR>Ohhh, I can see it now: a Vilani in a speeding spaceship at more than a<BR>thousand times c trying to get the latest episode of The X-Files tuned in on<BR>his TV set. Will Scully and Mulder kiss today?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:35:19 -0500<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR><BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; The Oxford Concise Dictionary defines Technocracy as the "Organization<BR>&gt;&gt; and management of a country's industrial resources by <BR>&gt;&gt; technical experts<BR>&gt;&gt; for the good of the whole community."<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; And we all know what "feudal" means, right?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Now, there, wasn't that easy? :-)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR><BR>They wouldn't take the step down; SysAdmins prefer to be worshipped as dieties ...<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:47:28 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: St. John of Cardiff<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>&gt; From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Gog &amp; Magog are 2 giants from Welsh folklore, Legate.<BR><BR>Can anybody explain how they ended up in the Book of Revelations, then?<BR>'Magog' actually occurs in the Old Testament as well, in Ezekiel.&nbsp; Have we<BR>stumbled on a religious secret even more fun than _Holy Blood, Holy<BR>Grail_?&nbsp; Are the Welsh the Lost Tribe of Israel?&nbsp; Or the Hebrews the Lost<BR>Clan of Wales, for that matter?&nbsp; (They couldn't have Pict a better origin,<BR>or course...)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:58:26 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote: <BR><BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; One answer is to simply say that Thruster plates work differently<BR>&gt; &gt; than described.&nbsp; What if they are a reaction drive which transforms<BR>&gt; &gt; hydrogen into neutrinos which then shoot out the back at the speed<BR>&gt; &gt; of light.&nbsp; The drive appears to have no exhaust, can't be used a<BR>&gt; &gt; weapon, is safe form planetary landings and works very similarly to<BR>&gt; &gt; T-Plates.&nbsp; Also, having 15x the Specific Impulse of HEPlaR (having<BR>&gt; &gt; exhaust velocity of C instead of HEPlaR's exhaust velocity of<BR>&gt; &gt; 0.13333 C) fuel is rarely a problem.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Nice idea, but...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A Hydrogen to Neutrino converter is a fusion power plant...<BR><BR>Not in this case, the way to make this work is to assume total or <BR>near total conversion of hydrogen to neutrinos.&nbsp; This is clearly <BR>sillytech, bu so is jump drive and both are less problematic that T-<BR>plates<BR><BR>&gt; How do you 'direct' the neutrinos out of the back of the craft?<BR><BR>Pure technobabble, if some wacky gadget can transform 100% of <BR>hydrogen into neutrinos then there is no reason it can't also do so <BR>in a single direction.<BR><BR>&gt; Do neutrinos have the mass required to provide thrust? <BR><BR>Yes, actually, recent studies show they have a (quite tiny) amount <BR>of mass.&nbsp; <BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:05:32 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:11:59 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; If HEPlaR is a plasma rocket, then surely the exhaust would be dissipating<BR>&gt; &gt; the moment it exited the exhaust port, like the plasma and fusion guns.<BR>&gt; &gt; Giving a very limited range for use as a weapon.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sorry, but to function, it has to be a *jet*. Which means it'll stay<BR>&gt; together for quite some distance. The guns don't do that because they<BR>&gt; don't *want* the thrust.<BR><BR>Not true; if anything, guns aim for better collimation than rockets do,<BR>since any of your 'exhaust' that doesn't hit a tiny angular area (the<BR>target) is wasted.&nbsp; Rockets, on the other hand, get the vector component<BR>of momentum along the thrust axis of every particle they emit; even for a<BR>'fan' of a few degrees, that means you're gettin almost full efficiency.<BR><BR>What's more, a plasma is hot and unstable; it will naturally expand into<BR>the vacuum around it.<BR><BR>&gt; Consider that someone has worked out the exhaust velocity of a HEPlaR<BR>&gt; as 13% of c (39,000 km/sec). That means that if it takes only a<BR>&gt; *millisecond* for the exhaust to double in width, the exhaust would be<BR>&gt; 39 km from the nozzle by the time it'd doubled in width. <BR><BR>Yes, which is around four orders of magnitude less than typical space<BR>combat ranges.&nbsp; By the time you're out to a 0.13 light seconds, it's<BR>doubled a thousand times[1]...and 2^1000 is a pretty big number. :)&nbsp; Note<BR>that 0.1 light seconds is *one* BL/BR hex. <BR><BR>[1] Not really, of course; the point is that it's dissipated to the point<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; that it might not even be detectable with sensitive instruments.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:07:22 -0400<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: I need...<BR><BR>a "Ditzie" class Battlerider in the 30,000 dton range, at about TL17 or 18, <BR>with 19 not out of the question, and using an antimatter power plant.<BR><BR>:-)<BR><BR>I find myself in a crunch for time, and need a suitable ship.&nbsp; Ideally, it <BR>will be MT, or FFS2, and have primarily an energy based armament (some <BR>missile bays are acceptable).<BR><BR>If you want to take on the task, feel free to munch^k^er optimize it to <BR>make it truly scary and deserving of a "Ditzie's Tool of the Apocalypse" <BR>rating.&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>PS:&nbsp; Oh, and it needs to be able to operate from a ground side base so it <BR>will need to be streamlined.<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:25:07 -0400<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Hagfish<BR><BR>From the New Scientist...<BR><BR>http://www.newscientist.com/slime/slime.jsp?id=ns22295<BR><BR>&nbsp; "Throw a medium-sized hagfish into a five-gallon bucket <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; and annoy it sufficiently--grab it or stress it<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; out in some way--and it can turn pretty much all the <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; water in the bucket to slime. Almost instantaneously." <BR><BR>Way cool animal for PCs to encounter. Somewhere from the link<BR>you can probably also get the link to the cave where the walls<BR>drip pH 0.5 sulphuric acid... and the fish and slimes that live <BR>within. Cool planetside adventure possibilities.<BR><BR>Ethan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:29:56 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;I limit "teleporting other" to Psi level in kg, and teleporting into<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;solids is impossible.<BR>&gt;Unfortunately, to be usable at *all* you have to be able to teleport<BR>&gt;into fluids that that are surrounded by solids (otherwise you can't<BR>&gt;port into or out of a room with a locked door).<BR>&gt;And that means I can kill you with a handful of rice (or even dirt).<BR>&gt;Just port it into the heart or lungs.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; There are lots of solids in the heart and lungs, and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; teleportation IMTU is an all-or-nothing affair (either all gets<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; teleported or nothing at all).&nbsp; The local density, many solids<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in close proximity and the difficulty in targeting small<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; moving cavities make teleporting anything into living<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; persons pretty much impossible.&nbsp; This does not cause any<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; problems for teleporting into a room with a locked door, nor<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; does it necessarily cause any problems when teleporting<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; into an air-tight room but in the latter case air pressure<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; would be increased.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:45:57 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Bernie McGeehan &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>You had me until the streamlined part...<BR>- --- Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; a "Ditzie" class Battlerider in the 30,000 dton<BR>&gt; range, at about TL17 or 18, <BR>&gt; with 19 not out of the question, and using an<BR>&gt; antimatter power plant.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I find myself in a crunch for time, and need a<BR>&gt; suitable ship.&nbsp; Ideally, it <BR>&gt; will be MT, or FFS2, and have primarily an energy<BR>&gt; based armament (some <BR>&gt; missile bays are acceptable).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you want to take on the task, feel free to<BR>&gt; munch^k^er optimize it to <BR>&gt; make it truly scary and deserving of a "Ditzie's<BR>&gt; Tool of the Apocalypse" <BR>&gt; rating.&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; PS:&nbsp; Oh, and it needs to be able to operate from a<BR>&gt; ground side base so it <BR>&gt; will need to be streamlined.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kurt Feltenberger<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign<BR>&gt; nations,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country,<BR>&gt; right or wrong!"<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>"I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art."&nbsp; &nbsp; me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:00:26<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>At 02:25 PM 10/24/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;1.&nbsp;&nbsp; Were the original Naval ranks based on the UK model?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I ask this since Santanocheev os a "Lord" - is he a "Lord of the<BR>&gt;Admiralty"? If not, what noble rank is a "Lord"?<BR><BR>It is the proper form of address for a peer when you are not using his full<BR>title.&nbsp; Naval officers tend to be nobles as well.<BR><BR>For example, when addressing Norris, it is much easier to say "Lord Aledon"<BR>instead of "Archduke of Deneb Norris"<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; As well, he is a "Rear Admiral" while Elphinstone is a "Vice Admiral" -<BR>&gt;neither rank exists in CT/MT, but they do sound British.<BR><BR>There are several cases where ranks that don't appear in the rules appear<BR>in the flavor text.&nbsp; Since most of these tidbits come from the TNS, put it<BR>down to reporters getting it wrong.&nbsp;&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>The ranks in CT/MT were heavily influenced by the US military.&nbsp; Rear and<BR>Vice Admiral are both US Navy ranks.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp;&nbsp; Templar Agent at Large.<BR>gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TravGeekCode: <BR>tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:33:20<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: T4's Bucket'o'Dice (Was Re: D20 Task Reslution)<BR><BR>At 11:09 AM 10/24/2000 CDT, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;4d6 is hardly a "bucket". A cup maybe, but not a bucket. T5's 6d6 - maybe a <BR>&gt;bucket there, but at least Impossible tasks really are (almost) Impossible. <BR>&gt;Anyhow, it beats WoD's 10d10 by a mile or two.<BR><BR>Ladies, Gentlemen, others.. those of us who play Champions laugh bitterly<BR>at the description of 4d6 as a "bicket of dice."<BR><BR>Iron Horse's basic punch did 16d6.&nbsp; If he threw a haymaker, while pushing<BR>his strength, he did 27d6.&nbsp; The average number of dice rolled in our<BR>campaign is 10.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:37:35<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Loren!!!!&nbsp; Your JTAS editorial<BR><BR>Great, now that all those things are canon, I'm going to have to change my<BR>whole campaign..<BR><BR>Penguin Boy, sipping on his chocolate milk, hold the kiwi...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"Penguin Boy,&nbsp; Righter of wrongs, hero to millions, &amp;<BR>friend to Flash Gordon."&nbsp;&nbsp; - Legate Legion on the TML<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:54:54<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Susan Ivanova (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205)<BR><BR>At 11:43 PM 10/23/2000 EDT, Loren wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;That was the "Through-the-Looking-Glass Universe" episode where Spock was a <BR>&gt;pirate and Invanova was . . . no . . . wait, I'm confused . . .<BR><BR>She has that effect on people.&nbsp; Susan Ivanova is one of my all-time<BR>favorite characters, and her lines were pure Traveller character:<BR><BR>The Babylon 5 mantra:<BR>"Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore <BR>Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. And if this ever happens again, <BR>Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out. Babylon Control out.<BR>[Sigh] Civilians. [Looking up] Just kidding about the God part -- no <BR>offense." <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Lt. Commander Susan Ivanova, Voice in the Wilderness Part I <BR><BR>"So from now on I guess the operational phrase is 'Trust no-one.'"<BR>"No. Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anybody else: shoot them." <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Corwin and Ivanova, No Surrender, No Retreat <BR><BR>"This is the White Star Fleet. Negative on surrender...we will not stand<BR>down."<BR>"Who is this? Identify yourself."<BR>"Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie <BR>Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick <BR>your sorry ass all the way back to Earth ... I am Death incarnate, and the <BR>last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." <BR>&lt;White Star opens fire on Earthforce fleet&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ivanova and Earthforce Advanced Destroyer Captain James, Between the<BR>Darkness and the Light <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:57:28<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>At 06:15 PM 10/23/2000 CDT, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Funny... I don't remember anyone like that from the show. What episode was <BR>&gt;that?<BR><BR>"Good luck, Captain. I think you are about to go where everyone has gone<BR>before." <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ivanova, Voices of Authority <BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:07:59 -0400<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Special PSI Powers (and the Law of Unintended Uses)<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:16:50 -0400 (EDT), Charles Collin<BR>&lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;A lot of the suggestions for Special Psi powers have been quite cool.&nbsp; But<BR>&gt;I have a question regarding the various kinetic powers:&nbsp; How have you<BR>&gt;dealt with the problem of being able to affect other peoples' insides?<BR>&gt;For instance, a telekinetic who can apply 1 kg of force to the right spot<BR>&gt;inside someone's brain or heart could kill them.&nbsp; Likewise with a "candle<BR>&gt;flame" or "frosty peice of metal".&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;The most obvious thing that occurs to me is that the power cannot<BR>&gt;penetrate the bio-electric field (or whatever) of another living thing.<BR>&gt;Ya, it's a handwave, but hey this is psi we're talking about!&nbsp; <BR><BR>That's one possibility, and might yield clues as to why/how psi shields<BR>work.&nbsp; Downside: It might make it difficult to pinpoint one person in a<BR>crowd even for external effect, or it might make it difficult to affect<BR>something inside an enclosure when the psionic is outside, if there's<BR>circuitry in the walls.<BR><BR>&gt;Another possibility is to limit the powers to touch.&nbsp; You can still do a<BR>&gt;lot of damage with pyrokinetic powers if it's based on touch, but at least<BR>&gt;it's more like a conventional weapon and puts the psionicist in some<BR>&gt;danger.&nbsp; Applying this to telekinesis leads to a cool sort of enhanced<BR>&gt;strength:&nbsp; The character needs to touch an object to move it, but can<BR>&gt;otherwise direct it as if it had little weight (within the limits of his<BR>&gt;capacity to generate force).&nbsp; <BR><BR>This is closer to the way I'd play it - although I don't limit to touch.<BR>Instead, the psionic must be able to (1) see the target in real time,<BR>either in realspace or via other psionic means (telepathy or clarvoyance,<BR>for example), _or_ (2) visualize the target in accurate detail, _including_<BR>the location relative to the psionic.&nbsp; Thus, someone who has _only_<BR>pyrotics could affect anything they could actually see, or any immovable<BR>object/location that made a significant emotional impression on them<BR>(because of visualization).&nbsp; Dangerous, but not scary.&nbsp; The pyrotic who<BR>also has telepathy may well be able to affect _people_ at great distances,<BR>and the pyrotic who has clar* is dangerous indeed.&nbsp; If you're a fan of<BR>McCaffery's PERN, you can get odd effects, as something that makes a strong<BR>impression on a pyrotic might be "time locked", and the pyrotic action may<BR>"reach back" _only_ and _exactly_ to the time and place of the impression<BR>(remember when Lessa discovered the chronokinetic ability of the dragons?).<BR><BR>&gt;Another issue with telekinesis: How do you determine the "dexterity" of<BR>&gt;the telekinetic force?&nbsp; Firing a gun by telekinesis involves lifting and<BR>&gt;steadying the gun (several vectors of force involved there) and then<BR>&gt;pulling the trigger.&nbsp; Is there a penalty to do this relative to, say,<BR>&gt;pushing the gun across the floor? (one vector of force only)<BR><BR>I would compute the Effective Skill Level as follows:&nbsp; Start with the<BR>psionic rating.&nbsp; Subtract the number of range bands.&nbsp; Subtract 1 for each<BR>difficulty level beyond Routine, add one for each level below Routine<BR>(Routine takes no modifier).&nbsp; Compare with the skill level that would be<BR>used to accomplish the same goal if not doing it telekinetically (e.g.,<BR>rifle skill if trying to telekinetically fire a rifle).&nbsp; Use the _lower_ of<BR>the two numbers, and it can't be done at all if either number is zero or<BR>less.<BR><BR>&gt;Oh, and Teleprojection (teleporting others) is just _nasty_.&nbsp; Another<BR>&gt;instant death power if not checked in some way.&nbsp; This is harder to limit<BR>&gt;plausibly, IMO.&nbsp; You can rule that the subject has to be willing, but that<BR>&gt;just "feels" too arbitrary.&nbsp; Maybe if you can only do it with objects.<BR>&gt;But then, can you teleport the object into another being?&nbsp; Yeesh. :-)<BR><BR>Visualization issues, again - see my comments above in response to your<BR>suggestion of limiting to touch.&nbsp; If the visualization fails, the person/<BR>object being teleported remains where it was (i.e., it doesn't "go nowhere"<BR>the way a Pernese dragon "goes Between" when its rider dies).<BR><BR>&gt;Mind control is also pretty rough, but at least there's a "battle of<BR>&gt;willpowers" to fall back on ("These are not the droids...")<BR><BR>&gt;One power that no one's brought up so far is "object reading".&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;ability to tell the past of an object or a person associated with an<BR>&gt;object by touching it.&nbsp; A cool but not too torquey power.<BR><BR>Hmmmm... A subset of clar*. I don't like it because I can't come up with a<BR>rationalization/handwave that makes it seem barely plausible, but...<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:12:43 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR><BR>Alright, that's twice. Now I am obliged to correct this. It is the Book of<BR>Revelation, only one, not many. John was given one revelation by Christ, of<BR>Himself, about the end of the church age and His imminent return.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Craig Berry" &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Can anybody explain how they ended up in the Book of Revelations, then?<BR>&gt; 'Magog' actually occurs in the Old Testament as well, in Ezekiel.&nbsp; Have we<BR>&gt; stumbled on a religious secret even more fun than _Holy Blood, Holy<BR>&gt; Grail_?&nbsp; Are the Welsh the Lost Tribe of Israel?&nbsp; Or the Hebrews the Lost<BR>&gt; Clan of Wales, for that matter?&nbsp; (They couldn't have Pict a better origin,<BR>&gt; or course...)<BR><BR>BTW, Gog and Magog are tribes (described by what gods they worship) from an<BR>area north of Turkey. They could be scattered all over, so the reference is<BR>really only helpful in figuring out where the invaders come from, not who<BR>they are, particularly.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:28:30 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&nbsp; "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;hopeless. For instance, take a look at Planet III's Old Expanses software.<BR>&gt;If you compare it to the Sector's original data, it is true that they are<BR>&gt;much reduced.<BR><BR>Can't and won't ;-) (Mainly because it's Windows based and I really <BR>don't want to have to buy Virtual PC when my Mac is happy with Rob <BR>Prior's Imperial Grand Survey.<BR><BR>&gt;This means, either Virus is not as devistating as it seems it should be,<BR>&gt;there are some useful countermeasures against it, or the last eighty years<BR>&gt;of recovery have been fairly productive. Now, it is true that because the<BR>&gt;Old Expanses is so far from Core that there decline will be less then we<BR>&gt;would expect. Indeed, the further coreward you go, the worse you would<BR>&gt;expect the collapse to be. However, by the same token, as you travel<BR>&gt;Rimward, the condition improves.<BR><BR>I'd actually expect the Collapse to be worse around the Rim due to <BR>the generally higher average Tech levels that the area started with. <BR>But once you reach Massila I'd expect to see a much reduced Virus <BR>effect because by 1125 these areas (between factions ) are 'wilds' <BR>and devastated. As a result, a lot of the technology base and <BR>population is already damaged by the time Virus is released. But <BR>generally, I agree with your point.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, this is true. However, the Quarentine only saves them from Virus.<BR>&gt;Virus itself provides relief from the other threats clearly detailed in MT.<BR>&gt; "Assuming he can solve the solve the Aslan and Vargr problems, any<BR>&gt;remaining problems are minor." Rebellion Sourcebook, page 57.<BR><BR>"Handling interstellar affairs with his customary aplomb, Norris <BR>succeeded in stabilizing his Domain rapidly and effectively. A series <BR>of small wars with different Aslan Ihatei groups has brought their <BR>advance to a standstill and has created a no man's land between his <BR>territories and theirs."<BR><BR>Information as 001-1125, Hard Times<BR><BR>"Arrival Vengeance" mentions the formation of the Trekhyair (Patrol), <BR>an Alsan crewed force patrolling the borders of the Imperium.<BR><BR>So Norris neutralises the Aslan threat some 4 to 5 years before Virus <BR>is released, and focuses resources dealing with the Vargr raiders. <BR>Virus does destroy the threat from Corridor, but the problems of <BR>1117's Vargr invasions are in retreat by then.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Indeed, the Spinward Marches map provided in the MT boxed set shows<BR>&gt;clearly that most of Aramis and some of Regina subsectors are held by the<BR>&gt;Vargr, and rimward, the Aslan hold virtually all of Glisten subsector, as<BR>&gt;well as significant portions of Trin's Veil and the few Imperial holdings in<BR>&gt;District 268. What is more, the inside cover of the Rebellion sourcebook<BR>&gt;shows two whole subsectors of Deneb sector in Vargr hands, with Trojan Reach<BR>&gt;and Reft sectors pretty much abandoned. IMO, we also cannot entirely rule<BR>&gt;out Zhodani operations. While they are clearly unwilling to fight another<BR>&gt;war with Deneb, at the same time the Rebellion sourcebook points out Zhodani<BR>&gt;probability in aiding external threats to the domain, as well as mounting<BR>&gt;their own covert ops.<BR><BR>p66 to 67 of the Rebellion Sourcebook suggests that the official <BR>policy is different, and as the war progresses it will become clear <BR>that Deneb is less of a threat...<BR><BR>Hard TImes again - "Currently enjoying calm relations with Norris, <BR>the Zhodani are still recovering from the Fifth Frontier War, which <BR>drained them more severely than it did the Imperium. Rumour has it <BR>that they are also using this interregnum period to fund the <BR>launching of two new Core Expeditions.<BR><BR>With typical shrewdness, the Zhodani realise that as long as they do <BR>not attack Norris, the Imperium will have no compelling reason to <BR>reunite in common cause. Without an external threat to tweak the <BR>Imperial Xenophobia, the Zhodani anticipate it will be decades before <BR>the consulate is forced to contemplate another war in the Spinward <BR>marches" (p18)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; First of all, the major culture shifts are assumed to already have<BR>&gt;occured by MT. Strephon in Survival Margin says Imperial culture has<BR>&gt;disappeared, leaving "distinct cultures a sector or more in size, with<BR>&gt;little, if any loyalty to the throne." (pg. 6)<BR><BR>Agreed that regional loyalties are stronger than the Imperial ones.<BR><BR>&gt;What is more, Bzrk leaves because of percieved<BR>&gt;(and realized) anti-Vargr sentiments within the Moot. Then, he joins the<BR>&gt;Julian Protectorate, the nation that resisted Martin's pacification<BR>&gt;campaign. Becasue the Julian Protectorate was never integrated, they likely<BR>&gt;maintained more of the 2I and 1I culture.<BR><BR>I disagree strongly - the Julian Protectorate is a Human Vargr <BR>coalition and very different to the Ziru Sirka or Rule of Man. You <BR>can find details in the extra material in 'Mileu 0 Campaign'. It's on <BR>page 119-121 (the material is also duplicated on Bryan Borich's site <BR>(http://members.aol.com/~kagehira ). the URL is from memory, I'm <BR>afraid.<BR><BR>&gt;Now, it is true that the 15 year<BR>&gt;rebellion is not enough to change the culture of an entire domain<BR>&gt;completely, but I am sure Julian influence played some role. More important,<BR>&gt;however, is how Bzrk more fully integrated Vargr and Human society within<BR>&gt;his domain. Again, once the Rebellion started, Antares was already different<BR>&gt;from the "Imperial Main." This is because the Imperial Main, as was inferred<BR>&gt;by Strephon, was little beyond the Domain of Sylea.<BR><BR>Agreed in whole - but OTOH you have also to accept that there are a <BR>lot of factions all claiming to be that Imperial culture, or valid <BR>successors thereof.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It's a fantastic and audacious move on GDW's part which impressed me<BR>&gt; &gt; from one perspective, and on the other left me feeling angry because<BR>&gt; &gt; all the effort of Hard Times era campaigns was wiped away.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I agree with you completely. I feel it is always a loss when a setting<BR>&gt;is destroyed.<BR><BR>The loss was especially hard because Hard Times was really one of the <BR>first supplements where the players could really make a difference <BR>and shape their surrounds.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; The Vilani caste system, which they imposed<BR>&gt;on their subject races (including the Vegans, who would later rise up<BR>&gt;against the ZS) completly collapsed, and the Terrans were seen as<BR>&gt;liberators. Rather then resist the "invading" Terrans, they rose up against<BR>&gt;the Vilani, or at the least sat it out. An empire marked with civil war,<BR>&gt;with its provincial government dedicated to that coreward war seems ripe for<BR>&gt;internal collapse. Especially when you combine the caste system<BR>&gt;inadequetcies and the stagnation in main Vilani science and culture.<BR><BR>It didn't really end in civil war as they surrendered. The upheaval <BR>in the Caste system almost certainly accelerates the collapse of the <BR>RoM because they do not find any viable way to change a culture <BR>indoctrinated with thousands of years of stagnation. A culture which <BR>has just had its basis cut away.<BR><BR>The Ziru Sirka may have been doomed anyway from its own inertia, but <BR>the collapse is precipitated by the Terran victory which shatter the <BR>whole basis of the society.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The Third Imperium is not collapsing under its own weight. It's like<BR>&gt; &gt; a spinning wheel which has the core blown apart. It spins and<BR>&gt; &gt; violently destroys itself as it tears itself apart.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I believe that to be correct in the beginning. However, and this I have<BR>&gt;not thought on much, but if the situation contiunes to its natural (sans<BR>&gt;Virus) completion, I wonder if several of the factions would not collapse in<BR>&gt;on itself. (Dulinor's already shows such signs, as early as 1120)<BR><BR>Dulinors certainly has issues with parts of the Federation of <BR>Illelish - however, by 1123 he has a peace treat in place with the <BR>rebelling Verge Combine, has cracked down on dissent too. By 1127 he <BR>has successfully built a pre-war sized fleet in Verge.&nbsp; (Survival <BR>Margin)<BR><BR>It's not so much that the Factions are likely to collapse on <BR>themselves; more fact is that they are down to two to four subsectors <BR>as 'safes' by 1125. This leaves the surviving Domain of Deneb's safes <BR>(some 13 subsectors) nearly bigger than the entire safes of the <BR>remaining factions. Massive areas are devastated - over 70 subsectors <BR>are classified as 'wilds', abandoned and war torn, many without <BR>contact or trade since 1121, often xenophobic and heading to <BR>disaster. 5 subsectors are Lucan's Black war zones, and a further 17 <BR>are designated intensive war zones (2+ years of high intensity <BR>conflict).<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I feel that there is a certain extent of repetition to that line of<BR>&gt;events. However, I have not considered this situation as fully as you have,<BR>&gt;so I concede the likelyhood that I am in error. (To a degree)<BR><BR>I disagree with the repetition because I feel the situation in Hard <BR>Times is enormously different to that in the earlier Imperia when <BR>they failed. However, most Traveller games I have set have been in MT <BR>and Hard Times (which is why I like the era so much).<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I would have to disagree with you on two points. One, I have never seen<BR>&gt;any indication Lucan did not intend to use the weapon. In fact, it makes<BR>&gt;more sense to assume he was simply waiting unitl he had a way to control it.<BR>&gt;Furthermore, I think to accuse Lucan of being the only one to develope<BR>&gt;superweapons would be an injustice. I find it likely that the major factions<BR>&gt;were no doubt in development of new weapons in the hopes of winning the<BR>&gt;throne. Still, even if none of the other factions were developing doomsday<BR>&gt;weapons, the loss of the Imperium in the mind of the citizen and the<BR>&gt;combatants was just as complete, even without Virus. In their bid to control<BR>&gt;the Imperium, Dulinor and Lucan (at least) were engaged in direct warfare<BR>&gt;against the civil populace. What is more, their campaigns on and for the<BR>&gt;High Population worlds as described in the Rebellion sourcebook amount to<BR>&gt;little more then barbarism. Even Dulinor, the champion of the masses, is<BR>&gt;willing to wage war against the citizens of the Imperium. "Beyond a certain<BR>&gt;point, I must free my admirals to do what they must do." (Survival Margin,<BR>&gt;24) It is this willingness to war on Imperial citizens (And let us not<BR>&gt;forget, Dulinor went to Omicron to get Lucan's superweapon for himself) that<BR>&gt;marks the true death of the 3I. (It is, coincidently, Strephon's later<BR>&gt;understanding and regret of this circumstance (Survival Margin, page 23 and<BR>&gt;51) that makes me a Strephon supporter.)<BR><BR>Agreed - Lucan started the path to destruction - however, you may <BR>recall my recent posts which discuss this in depth. Without Lucan, <BR>the fragmentation was much less likely. I would hold him responsible <BR>for the collapse of the Imperium. Dulinor precipitated the crisis. <BR>Strephon exacerbated it by going to Usdikki, but that was <BR>understandable with his state of mind at the time. Personally, I <BR>would support Strephon, Craig or Norris as a faction, then Margaret <BR>or Bzrk, then the Ziru Sirkaa, then Dulinor and finally Lucan (in <BR>order of preference).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Have you actually read _Hard Times_? If you haven't you are missing<BR>&gt; &gt; the fact that there is definitely a lasting effect from the 2nd Civil<BR>&gt; &gt; War. Likewise 'Arrival Vengeance' makes this pretty clear of the<BR>&gt; &gt; state of the Imperium and the lasting impact. Both MT supplements<BR>&gt; &gt; make it apparent that there are massive long term impacts of the war.<BR>&gt; &gt; If you haven't read these I can start to understand where you are<BR>&gt; &gt; coming from - you've missed on on possibly two of the best Traveller<BR>&gt; &gt; supplements ever. The 1116-1129 war is devastating because it is the<BR>&gt; &gt; first war since those against the Chanestin and Interstellar<BR>&gt; &gt; Confederacy that has actually really impacted on the heart of<BR>&gt; &gt; Imperial society and destroyed trade. It more than breaks the social<BR>&gt; &gt; contract - it destroys the lifeblood of the worlds themselves by<BR>&gt; &gt; smashing trade.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I am not fortunate to own either of those products, a fact which I am<BR>&gt;beginning to regret. If they do indeed detail the consequences of the<BR>&gt;Rebellion, I would be most interested in a copy. (Back to ebay I go)<BR><BR><BR>Arrival Vengeance has the dubious quality of being the only Traveller <BR>supplement making me want to cry when I read it. The feelings aroused <BR>on the tour of the Imperium, and the meeting with Strephon are like <BR>nothing that I have had before.<BR><BR>Hard Times is possibly the best MT supplement ever. Maybe the best <BR>Traveller one, in fact. It extends the Rebellion background to 1125, <BR>and provides more details and a campaign to extend the play until <BR>1129.<BR><BR>The details and campaign draw towards an end with:<BR><BR>"Many of the changes, which will become evident from 1125-1128, <BR>require another decade before they will be resolved, although many of <BR>these resolutions are obvious by the end of 1128. For instance, <BR>Doomed worlds are still slowly dying. The long-term results are <BR>ordained - compliance with the harsh reality is all that remains.<BR><BR>Not all worlds face immediately bleak futures, however. Some may have <BR>the resources to take up with an independent polity, while some <BR>frontier worlds may benefit from the gradual firming up of defensive <BR>lines. Some stellar polities survive in the Outlands by stabilizing <BR>their technology and their ports, and they become, for a time, <BR>beacons in the growing darkness around them.<BR><BR>However, the astrographic lines dividing entropy from order will <BR>become sharper in the years ahead. Areas with the benefit of industry <BR>and commerce may stabilize, recover, flourish and formulate plans <BR>from re-expansion. Areas that have fallen by the wayside will sink <BR>deeper into the mire of depression and decay.<BR><BR>To a large degree, it is up to the PCs to determine how deep this <BR>depression - and how dark that decay - will be."<BR><BR>Chapter 14, Light a Candle 'Gainst the Coming Night, Hard Times <BR>(c)1991 GDW - Portions of this material may be (c)1977-2000 FarFuture <BR>Enterprises. Use is not intended to challenge copyright or rights.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I'm not going to argue about the Hivers (as my references aren't to<BR>&gt; &gt; hand) - ISTR that they had had space flight stopped or curtailed for<BR>&gt; &gt; a significant period too?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Actually, as I understand it, Hiver civilization, while damaged, was not<BR>&gt;significantly impared. After a relatively short time, their internal<BR>&gt;structure was stable and they began to reach outwards. The RC is in Old<BR>&gt;Expanses, but the Hivers are much closer to former Solomani space. Makes you<BR><BR>FWIW Old Expanses was annexed by the Solomani - at the sector Duke's <BR>requests - by 350-1117.<BR>(Survival Margin)<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Agreed, but it is not a moral assessment. The fact remains that the<BR>&gt;recovery of relic technology makes it possible to procure more. Thus feeding<BR>&gt;recovery. But, I agree. The best hope for recovery is an open Quarantine.<BR><BR>Yes.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Again, I agree with you here. However, Vampire Fleet does provide Line<BR>&gt;ships on the random encounters chart, IIRC. Furthermore, the RC does not<BR>&gt;have access to the Regency Navy. They will have to build their own, and<BR>&gt;although it may not have BatRons in the traditional sense, it will<BR>&gt;nevertheless have to be a credible force to allow for future expansion.<BR>&gt;Expansion which, I would point out, is supported by TNE quotes from the<BR>&gt;"future."<BR><BR>True.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; But I still reserve the right to comment that *I* would like (and<BR>&gt; &gt; indeed would have preferred) to have seen a future post 1129 with no<BR>&gt; &gt; Virus and an ongoing collapse thanks to Hard Times. The potential is<BR>&gt; &gt; there for conflict, expansion, exploration, growth, holding back the<BR>&gt; &gt; tide - all in a universe more like the existing Traveller one but<BR>&gt; &gt; different all the same.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Telling me that my opinion is 'pointless, and has been done before'<BR>&gt; &gt; isn't exactly the most endearing approach, especially when the 3I<BR>&gt; &gt; collapse until 1129 had not been done before in Traveller, a point<BR>&gt; &gt; which the MT notes on the 'Final War'/2nd Civil War make quite clear.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; It was not your opinion that I described as (or intended to describe, as<BR>&gt;the case may be) pointless. It was, rather, the course of action you were<BR>&gt;suggesting as I had the ability to understand it. In any case, a personal<BR>&gt;attack was not the intention, and a defensive response was (or would be)<BR>&gt;unnecessary. If I have given offense, I apologize. On a side note, I would<BR>&gt;be interested in hearing your views on a post Hard Times slide in another<BR>&gt;thread, if you have the time and inclination.<BR><BR>My apologies if I have misunderstood you here. It's been quite an <BR>interesting discussion.<BR><BR>As to a post Hard Times discussion, I'd be happy to join in. But not tonight!<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>PS if you can get Hard Times, do so. It is a really nice resource.<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3212<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3213<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Feudal Technocracy<BR>Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR>Re: D20 Task Resolution<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: D20 Task Resolution<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: eBooks<BR>RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Welfare in the 3I<BR>Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR>Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR>Re: I need...<BR>Re: I need...<BR>Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR>Re: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: First Contact<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:26:27 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 7:08 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Incidentally if a space shuttle took off from the centre of a<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; city any idea<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; how much damage would be done?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; As I understand it, the exhaust from the Solid Rocket Boosters is<BR>fairly<BR>&gt; &gt; toxic, so you don't want it being emitted all over your nice shiny<BR>&gt; &gt; downtown...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Otherwise, unless it actually exploded on the launch pad, there<BR>wouldn't<BR>&gt; &gt; be any actual *physical*&nbsp; damage more than a few metres away from<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt; launch pad<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For rather large values of "few".<BR><BR>Yes, I meant 'few tens of'<BR><BR>&gt; The exhaust alone is pretty damaging for tens of meters. *Especially*<BR>&gt; if you don't have that huge exhaust deflector to direct most of it<BR>thru<BR>&gt; the trenches and away from stuff.<BR><BR>Well, I was assuming that the launch point was a properly prepared area<BR>within the city, rather than a downtown intersection...<BR><BR>&gt; The main reason they don't have to rebuild the pad after every launch<BR>&gt; is that they dump a few milliomn gallons of water over everything as<BR>&gt; the launch is taking place.<BR><BR>How about placing the launch pad in an airport sized facility surrounded<BR>by built-up areas...<BR><BR>Especially if you sunk the actual pad a few tens of metres into the<BR>bedrock, and had a network of tunnels and large fans to suck the exhaust<BR>to vents further away from the city...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:18:03 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 1:00 PM<BR>Subject: Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 02:25 PM 10/24/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;1.&nbsp;&nbsp; Were the original Naval ranks based on the UK model?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I ask this since Santanocheev os a "Lord" - is he a "Lord of the<BR>&gt; &gt;Admiralty"? If not, what noble rank is a "Lord"?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is the proper form of address for a peer when you are not using his<BR>full<BR>&gt; title.&nbsp; Naval officers tend to be nobles as well.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For example, when addressing Norris, it is much easier to say "Lord<BR>Aledon"<BR>&gt; instead of "Archduke of Deneb Norris"<BR><BR>"Archduke Norris of Deneb" or "Norris, Archduke of Deneb"<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:47 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;Springmail.105.972414201.0.45869900@www.springmail.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Trent asked: "Do you use 2D10 (or 2D20 if you're old-fashioned) or do you <BR>use one of those massive golf-ball things that Lou Zocchi used to sell <BR>(the "Zocchihedron," IIRC)?"<BR><BR>Usually 2d20... hey, that's what over 23 years of roleplaying does for you <BR>:-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:50:11 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Feudal Technocracy<BR><BR>&gt;So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR><BR>From my collection of sig quotes:<BR>If I hire a sysadmin and he ISN'T a fascist, I've wasted my money.<BR><BR>Hmmm...we seemed to have wandered into TED territory...<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:47 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Reslution<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;F88gaIwbAeSi2ajKC740000b95a@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>James asked: "Interesting. Do you use it even for damage?"<BR><BR>Indeed I do... just see what the maximum damage the attack in question can <BR>do is, then roll d100, treat as a percentage of the maximum damage and <BR>there you go :-)<BR><BR>Of course, when I know I'm going to get a game, I often take along a <BR>bag-full of the usual polyhedral dice... on the gripping hand, it upsets <BR>the other players when you sit there rolling d100 all the time *tee* *hee*<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>PS. Greatly honoured: an installment of the great adventure in a comment <BR>to something I said :-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:57:46 -0400<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Resolution<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:19:41 -0400 (EDT), trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;It's well-known that anyone who uses dice with greater or fewer(1) than<BR>&gt;six-sides is some kind of weirdo.&nbsp; Nothing more need be said. <BR><BR>&gt;Except this -- Orthodox dice have spots, not numbers, and only follow two<BR>&gt;color schemes(2): 1) white with black spots, or 2) black with red spots. <BR><BR>I'd also allow the usage of clear red with opaque white spots. These can<BR>generally be presumed to originate with organizations whose manufacturing<BR>is high-precision for these objects, and which will likely specialize in<BR>such high-precision manufacturing.&nbsp; They can be obtained 'warmed up' from<BR>gaming shops with names like "Trump Castle", "Taj Mahal", and "Sands"<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:08:57 -0400<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:39:04 -0400 (EDT), "SwordWorlder"<BR>&lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'd venture to guess that the reason it lasted so long is because Asimov had<BR>&gt;already made decent arguements for the idea over twenty-five years prior to<BR>&gt;GDW using the idea in Traveller.<BR><BR>Except that Asimov's long night wasn't the kind of total power vacuum we<BR>are led to believe existed between the fall of the Rule of Man and the rise<BR>of the Sylean Federation; it was more like I envision the<BR>post-Rebellion-no-Virus Imperial Space around 1200 - bunches of small and<BR>medium-sized polities, with maybe a few large ones trying to reabsorb them<BR>as 'The Imperium'.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:47:54 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: D20 Task Resolution<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>&gt; I'd also allow the usage of clear red with opaque white spots. These can<BR>&gt;generally be presumed to originate with organizations whose manufacturing<BR>&gt;is high-precision for these objects, and which will likely specialize in<BR>&gt;such high-precision manufacturing.&nbsp; They can be obtained 'warmed up' from<BR>&gt;gaming shops with names like "Trump Castle", "Taj Mahal", and "Sands"<BR><BR>Dice such as these are acceptable, but the user should be required to shake them vigorously and always toss them the length of the playing surface, preferably while yelling out for the desired result.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>P.S. (re: Leonard's earlier post, which I've deleted):&nbsp; red-on-black dice with Imperial sunbursts in place of the 1's are not only acceptable, they are the Ultimate Dice, which all lesser dice must pay homage to and aspire to someday become. (I feel like I've seen a set of these before, but maybe it's just a mental image I've built based on an earlier mention -- I frequently have trouble differentiating fantasy from reality)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:53:04 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:08:57 -0400<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:39:04 -0400 (EDT), "SwordWorlder"<BR>&gt;&lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I'd venture to guess that the reason it lasted so long is because Asimov <BR>&gt;had<BR>&gt; &gt;already made decent arguements for the idea over twenty-five years prior <BR>&gt;to<BR>&gt; &gt;GDW using the idea in Traveller.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Except that Asimov's long night wasn't the kind of total power vacuum we<BR>&gt;are led to believe existed between the fall of the Rule of Man and the rise<BR>&gt;of the Sylean Federation; it was more like I envision the<BR>&gt;post-Rebellion-no-Virus Imperial Space around 1200 - bunches of small and<BR>&gt;medium-sized polities, with maybe a few large ones trying to reabsorb them<BR>&gt;as 'The Imperium'.<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;Jeff Zeitlin<BR>&gt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>Ah, but you're missing something extremely important. According to M0, Cleon <BR>strictly followed the Zhunastu School of Contact (or something like that), <BR>which uses a repressive regime that pretty much drains the world dry of <BR>natural resources. Add in a Civil War, a Rebellion, and over 1100 years of <BR>existence, and you've got yourself a strip-mined galactic arm. You'd <BR>basically end up with the situation in TNE, IMO, because the Domain of Deneb <BR>was really the only one that had enough resources to support civilization, <BR>and that only because it was the last to be inducted into the Imperium and <BR>was never a part of the Ziru Sirka or ROM.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 9<BR><BR>Harrison studied the data displayed on his hand computer intently, <BR>scrutinizing every detail. Finally, he turned his attention to the man shown <BR>on his video phone screen, who had offered Rokodo Cr40,000 to carry 40 tons <BR>of cargo, alledgedly various machine tools, to Carse. "Everything seems in <BR>order," Harrison said. "If you don't mind, I'd like to take a look at the <BR>cargo before I recommend Captain Rokodo to accept."<BR><BR>"Of course," the man said. "Is tomorrow at fourteen hundred hours good for <BR>you?"<BR><BR>"I'll see you then," Harrison said and turned off the phone. Something about <BR>this didn't feel right, he admitted to himself. He didn't know why, but he <BR>didn't trust that man.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:14:22 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR><BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tsykoduk<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 October 2000 05:10<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The names of the charactors..<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; You are correct and are awarded the order of the Carrot. Now, for<BR>an<BR>&gt; &gt; extra prize, can you think of anything in the first film that<BR>wasn't<BR>&gt; &gt; totally ignored in the dreadfull second?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>Damn!!! Of course...I missed that.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:51:07 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Awwww, come on people. There never was _anyone_ to match Ed Wood<BR>(thank the good Lord) and at least "Plan 9 From Outer Space" deserves<BR>to be saved. Otherwise, how will they know how bad films could get?<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:40:57 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: eBooks<BR><BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of SD Mooney<BR>&gt; Sent: 19 October 2000 18:16<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: eBooks<BR>&gt;<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; all are downloadable eBooks for the PalmOS or WinCE/Pocket PC for<BR>&gt; around $6 each.... I downloaded Downbelow Station, and it looks<BR>&gt; pretty good. The reader software is free as well.<BR>&gt;<BR>This sort of thing - though not this particular site - have been a bit<BR>of a hot topic on rec.arts.sciencefiction recently. Are you sure that<BR>you bought a legitimate copy and that Carol Cherryh is getting her<BR>copyright protected or have you bought a pirate copy?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:33:33 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Richard Persky<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 October 2000 23:20<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; on Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:00:02 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com<BR>&gt; (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise<BR>&gt; &lt;nyrath@clark.net wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If nothing else, it's useful for "grand strategic" level<BR>&gt; mapping for<BR>&gt; &gt; *big* traveller campaigns. At ~1200 ly (~400 parsecs) to the hex,<BR>&gt; &gt; "known space" fits comfortably into one hex.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hm.&nbsp; A copy of Outreach just showed up at my local<BR>&gt; used-book store.&nbsp; Is<BR>&gt; it worth $8?<BR>&gt;<BR>I was going to suggest it as a good source for the map....and I _like_<BR>the game!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:30:04 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Welfare in the 3I<BR><BR>Has the subject of public welfare ever been dealt in any canon work? If so, <BR>are individual worlds the only source, or are there subsector-level <BR>programs? If not, I would be interested in hearing how you handle it IYTU.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Episode I; Scene 10<BR><BR>"Is everything to your liking?" the patron said.<BR><BR>It looked like machine parts. Everything seemed perfectly in order, but <BR>something kept bugging Harrison, telling him that there was something more <BR>to this that met the eye.<BR><BR>But Cr40,000 was a hefty sum, and he couldn't pass that up just because of <BR>some vague intuition. He was probably just a little paranoid after the last <BR>incident with contraband cargo, he assured himself.<BR><BR>"Everything looks fine to me," he replied. "I'll personally recommend this <BR>cargo to Captain Rodoko."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:35:31 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:12:43 -0400<BR>&gt; From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Alright, that's twice. Now I am obliged to correct this. It is the Book of<BR>&gt; Revelation, only one, not many. John was given one revelation by Christ, of<BR>&gt; Himself, about the end of the church age and His imminent return.<BR><BR>Sorry, I *know* that.&nbsp; Maybe I should just switch to Greek and call it the<BR>Apocalypse -- means the same thing, but less tempting to pluralize it.&nbsp; I<BR>think I tend to think of it as multiple revelations because of the many<BR>enumerations of seven sequential events or scenes which fill the book.<BR><BR>&gt; BTW, Gog and Magog are tribes (described by what gods they worship) from an<BR>&gt; area north of Turkey. They could be scattered all over, so the reference is<BR>&gt; really only helpful in figuring out where the invaders come from, not who<BR>&gt; they are, particularly.<BR><BR>And it still strains belief that any of them would end up in Wales.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:42:29 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>&gt; &gt; From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Gog &amp; Magog are 2 giants from Welsh folklore, Legate.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Can anybody explain how they ended up in the Book of Revelations, then?<BR>&gt; 'Magog' actually occurs in the Old Testament as well, in Ezekiel.&nbsp; Have we<BR>&gt; stumbled on a religious secret even more fun than _Holy Blood, Holy<BR>&gt; Grail_?&nbsp; Are the Welsh the Lost Tribe of Israel?&nbsp; Or the Hebrews the Lost<BR>&gt; Clan of Wales, for that matter?&nbsp; (They couldn't have Pict a better origin,<BR>&gt; or course...)<BR><BR>I could have kilt you for that pun....<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:56:48 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; a "Ditzie" class Battlerider in the 30,000 dton range, at about TL17 or 18,<BR>&gt; with 19 not out of the question, and using an antimatter power plant.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I find myself in a crunch for time, and need a suitable ship.&nbsp; Ideally, it<BR>&gt; will be MT, or FFS2, and have primarily an energy based armament (some<BR>&gt; missile bays are acceptable).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you want to take on the task, feel free to munch^k^er optimize it to<BR>&gt; make it truly scary and deserving of a "Ditzie's Tool of the Apocalypse"<BR>&gt; rating.&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; PS:&nbsp; Oh, and it needs to be able to operate from a ground side base so it<BR>&gt; will need to be streamlined.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>AuricTech Shipyards has turned this project over to the Advanced<BR>Concepts branch of our design bureau for study.<BR><BR>Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very afraid (of the price tag, if nothing else!).<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:17:05 -0400<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>At 06:56 PM 10/24/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; a "Ditzie" class Battlerider in the 30,000 dton range, at about TL17 or 18,<BR>&gt; &gt; with 19 not out of the question, and using an antimatter power plant.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;AuricTech Shipyards has turned this project over to the Advanced<BR>&gt;Concepts branch of our design bureau for study.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very afraid (of the price tag, if nothing else!).<BR><BR>Price is no object.&nbsp; We'll be purchasing them by the dozen for field tests, <BR>and once they have the "Ditzie's Tool of the Apocalypse" rating, an order <BR>for several gross will be offered.<BR><BR>:-)<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR>kurt@blazenet.net<BR>Morrow Project Campaign http://www.sol-3.net<BR>WT-L Support Pages http://www.sol-3.net/wt-l<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:42:01 -0400<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:58:54 +0100<BR>&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR><BR>&gt;So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR><BR>Gives a whole new meaning to Loren's "alpha-geek" comment, anyway.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:56:12 -0700<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>Just two quick comments from a lurker:<BR><BR>Someone suggested that one could use TK to defuse a bomb, but not fiddle <BR>around inside a human body, because the latter is "solid."&nbsp; They obviously <BR>haven't seen FANTASTIC VOYAGE lately.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>And any character who has the power of mind-control, Mule-style psychic <BR>surgery, or whatever is going to be well-advised to be VERY subtle with it <BR>and not abuse the power.&nbsp; Because if they start leaving clues to their <BR>existence, eventually one of two things is going to happen based on their <BR>apparent level of threat:<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; They'll be captured and spirited away, never to be heard from again, <BR>by robots, mirrorshaded ninjas, or something else that they can't <BR>affect.&nbsp; If one or more attempts at this fail, proceed to #2.<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; More likely, their remarkable brain will be spattered all over a wall <BR>by a sniper from half a klick away.&nbsp; Or the nightclub they're in will be <BR>blown up.&nbsp; Or if they've managed to frighten someone /really/ powerful, <BR>they'll be nuked from orbit.&nbsp; Just to make sure.<BR><BR>Extreme?&nbsp; To deal with someone who can rape your mind, change who you ARE, <BR>and make you glad he did?&nbsp; No such thing, in a post Psionics-Suppressions 3I.<BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:01:14 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Bernie McGeehan &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>They may also have picked up FM radio (&amp; VHF) for the<BR>same reasons as the TV transmissions...they would have<BR>to be quite close (outer system, away from any gas<BR>giants), but would probably stand off to record &amp;<BR>analyze the languages, transmission standards,<BR>etc...they do rule a galactic empire after all, this<BR>wouldn't have been the first time they'd encountered a<BR>civilization like this.<BR>- --- Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:42:03 +0800<BR>&gt; &gt; From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I believe this has been dealt with before but I<BR>&gt; cant find it in my<BR>&gt; &gt; records.&nbsp; First contact between Terrans and Vilani<BR>&gt; is supposed to have<BR>&gt; &gt; taken part following the first mission to<BR>&gt; Barnard's Star from Earth. <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Were the Vilani caught watching reruns of<BR>&gt; Battlestar Galactica? Or did<BR>&gt; &gt; they think that Star Trek episodes were historical<BR>&gt; documents? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, they were watching "Chicago Hope", and<BR>&gt; frantically scribbling<BR>&gt; medical and biological insights. :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Earth is, and has been since the 50s being pumping<BR>&gt; huge amount of TV and<BR>&gt; &gt; radio signals straight into space. Surely Vilani<BR>&gt; sensors of the period<BR>&gt; &gt; could pick these signals up. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is one of the arguments that comes up from time<BR>&gt; to time on the TML --<BR>&gt; was "first contact" really first contact, on either<BR>&gt; side?&nbsp; I'm with you on<BR>&gt; this issue.&nbsp; The Vilani couldn't possibly have<BR>&gt; missed the presence of<BR>&gt; Terra.&nbsp; It is difficult to imagine that a few<BR>&gt; well-cloaked scout ships<BR>&gt; hadn't already done recon on Terra in the years<BR>&gt; leading up to the<BR>&gt; 'official' first contact.&nbsp; Less certain but<BR>&gt; intriguing is the possibility<BR>&gt; that the UN also knew about the Vilani, who<BR>&gt; presumably were leaking<BR>&gt; signals of their own (or perhaps were caught peeking<BR>&gt; during one of those<BR>&gt; surveillance missions).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, why was "official" contact delayed?&nbsp; That's<BR>&gt; relatively easy to<BR>&gt; explain.&nbsp; Recall that this was a period of<BR>&gt; precarious stability for the<BR>&gt; Ziru Sirka.&nbsp; Provincial governors were jockeying for<BR>&gt; power and support. <BR>&gt; If reporting a new high-population, ambitious,<BR>&gt; aggressive world just on<BR>&gt; the edge of star travel would cause more problems<BR>&gt; than it would solve for<BR>&gt; the Vilani governor, the information might well be<BR>&gt; conveniently 'misfiled'<BR>&gt; for decades; after all, the central government had<BR>&gt; enough problems without<BR>&gt; auditing exploration records from the rimward<BR>&gt; frontier.&nbsp; Much like a<BR>&gt; hornet nest, the Terrans would be left alone, a<BR>&gt; nagging problem to be<BR>&gt; solved by whoever sat in the governor's office next.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; The Vilani wouldn't<BR>&gt; expect the Terrans to advance as quickly as they<BR>&gt; did. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Similarly, if the Terrans discovered the Vilani, and<BR>&gt; especially if the<BR>&gt; surveillance flights were discovered, one can well<BR>&gt; imagine the reasoning<BR>&gt; that kept this information secret.&nbsp; After all,<BR>&gt; telling the people of Terra<BR>&gt; that a vast, technologically superior empire was<BR>&gt; covertly monitoring us<BR>&gt; would not be good for morale or stability.&nbsp; But the<BR>&gt; UN had to know that<BR>&gt; overt contact would come sooner or later.&nbsp; So they<BR>&gt; targeted an early jump<BR>&gt; ship for Barnard's Star, where the Vilani were known<BR>&gt; to have a permanent<BR>&gt; presence.&nbsp; Consider the psychological advantages of<BR>&gt; our 'discovering' them<BR>&gt; actively, on their territory, using our starships. <BR>&gt; It makes us look like<BR>&gt; their equals.&nbsp; I believe this initial mindset was<BR>&gt; the key to early Terran<BR>&gt; successes in diplomacy and then war against the<BR>&gt; Vilani.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Needless to say, given the pace of all things<BR>&gt; Vilani, one can easily<BR>&gt; speculate that the 'wait and watch' approach to<BR>&gt; Terra was centuries old by<BR>&gt; the time of the Barnard expedition.&nbsp; Perhaps the<BR>&gt; Roswell crash was a<BR>&gt; critical piloting failure by some hapless Vilani<BR>&gt; scout, and that was our<BR>&gt; first conclusive evidence of their existence...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Then their were the Pioneer and Voyager series<BR>&gt; probes. Which thoughtfully<BR>&gt; &gt; provided the location and population figures for<BR>&gt; the planet Earth. Suppose<BR>&gt; &gt; one of these was intercepted?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; These probes won't even clear the inner Oort cloud<BR>&gt; for centuries.&nbsp; If<BR>&gt; you're close enough to Sol to scoop 'em up, you're<BR>&gt; already practically<BR>&gt; here.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>&gt;&nbsp; --*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>"I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art."&nbsp; &nbsp; me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3213<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3214</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>10/24/00 10:54:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3214<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Hagfish<BR>Re: I need...<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: First Contact<BR>Re: Vegan<BR>Re: I need...<BR>Re: I need...<BR>Re: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: FYI<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:11:25 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Hagfish<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Hagfish<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;From the New Scientist...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; http://www.newscientist.com/slime/slime.jsp?id=ns22295<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hey, I was in that UBC lab the week before last. I'm used to<BR>science labs and their occupants, but the biophysics people are<BR>notably stranger than most :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:34:57 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; a "Ditzie" class Battlerider in the 30,000 dton range, at about<BR>TL17 or 18,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; with 19 not out of the question, and using an antimatter power<BR>plant.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;AuricTech Shipyards has turned this project over to the Advanced<BR>&gt; &gt;Concepts branch of our design bureau for study.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very afraid (of the price tag, if nothing else!).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Price is no object.&nbsp; We'll be purchasing them by the dozen for field<BR>tests,<BR>&gt; and once they have the "Ditzie's Tool of the Apocalypse" rating, an<BR>order<BR>&gt; for several gross will be offered.<BR><BR>Shouldn't that be "A gross order for several"...<BR><BR>As in "Ewww! Gross!"<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:39:28 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;Awwww, come on people. There never was _anyone_ to match Ed Wood<BR>&gt;(thank the good Lord) and at least "Plan 9 From Outer Space" deserves<BR>&gt;to be saved. Otherwise, how will they know how bad films could get?<BR><BR>Better Plan 9 than Battlefield:Earth...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free<BR>state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be<BR>infringed.&nbsp; -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:25:33 -0500<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: First Contact<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;We've got 6 networks, times 3 timezones, which gives *18* different<BR>&gt;programs all at the same time.<BR><BR>Plus independent stations (which could be showing anything). And time<BR>shifts amoung those supposedly showing the same thing (I currently<BR>recieve 2 channels of NBC which have a 1 minute time shift between<BR>them).<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:13:02 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Vegan<BR><BR>That was actually my original thought. However, the inferred military<BR>effectiveness from Survival Margin (The Imperial Fleets retreat to the VAZ<BR>and link up with their forces. The admiralty seems to consider them an<BR>effective force. pg. 12) and GT describes massive fleet support and ship<BR>building resources in the VAZ. I think they must maintain a strength equal<BR>to one numbered fleet.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I don't think the VAZ is to keep the Solomani in line militarily. The VAZ<BR>is<BR>&gt; more likely an economic influence in the region, and a base of operations<BR>&gt; for the Imperials.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Bob Kovalchick<BR>&gt; Sociology-4 JOT-2<BR>&gt; kovalchick@wbgh.org &lt;mailto:kovalchick@wbgh.org&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:18:57 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;AuricTech Shipyards has turned this project over to the Advanced<BR>&gt; &gt;Concepts branch of our design bureau for study.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very afraid (of the price tag, if nothing else!).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Price is no object.&nbsp; We'll be purchasing them by the dozen for field tests,<BR>&gt; and once they have the "Ditzie's Tool of the Apocalypse" rating, an order<BR>&gt; for several gross will be offered.<BR><BR>AuricTech Shipyards' Advanced Concepts branch has come up with two<BR>proposals so far.&nbsp; Here is the first one:<BR><BR>**begin transmission**<BR><BR>_Majestic_-class Battlerider<BR><BR>Tons: 30000 std (SL Long Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic) <BR>Dimensions: 239.7 m x 48.3 m x 48.3 m<BR>Volume: 420000 m3<BR>Cargo: 180 std (8 hatches, Hdl: 8 x 40 t) <BR>Mass (L/C): 485485 t/ 482881 t <BR>Maintenance Points: 9311<BR>Passengers High/Med: 0/0 <BR>Crew: 362/719 <BR>Troops: 0<BR>Frozen Watch: 48 (2 groups)<BR>Cost: 303,045.632 MCr <BR>Tech Level: 18<BR>Size: 10 <BR><BR><BR>Electronics<BR>Controls: Synaptic, High automation. 10xFibComp (CM: 0.2 CP: 5.0).<BR>Terrain following sensors (TF:900, NOE:300). Bridge.<BR>Communications: 4 x Directional Radio Rec (10,000 AU / 0.02 MW). 2 x<BR>Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 16 x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW). 2 x Meson (1,000 AU,<BR>5 MW).<BR>Sensors: 1xPEMS (15 [500 mkm], 5 MW). 1xAEMS (12.5 [5 mkm], LP, 50 MW).<BR>8 x LIDAR (15 [2mkm], 0.5 MW).<BR>Survey/Science: 1xDensitometer (9 [500 km]). 1xNeutrino (9 [500 km], 20<BR>MW).<BR>ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4 MW). 1 x Area. Jammer (11, 97.5 MW).<BR>1xDecp. Jammer (13, 19.5 MW).<BR>&nbsp; 1xPas. Jammer (16, 9.75 MW).<BR>Signatures: Vis: -1, IR: 0 (-0.5 at 73191 MW, -0.5 at 12000 MW), Act: 0,<BR>Neu: -4, Grav: 2<BR><BR><BR>Performance <BR>0 Jump<BR>6 / 6 Maneuver (Thruster: 72219 MW)<BR>0 / 0 Contra-grav<BR>5000 kph/5000 kph Atmosphere Maximum <BR>3750 kph / 3750 kph Atmosphere Cruise <BR>8 Power (AntiMatter: 120000 MW,5yr) <BR>0 Battery <BR>0 Fuel <BR>720/20/50/185 Accomodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy Low<BR>Berth) <BR>38480 Life Sup. (Type:Extended,Good Food/Storage) <BR>6 G-Comp <BR>48 Sandcasters (AV:79/Cans:50)<BR>16 Damper Turrets (3 MW /Rng: 50000 km) <BR>300 Damper Screen (11 MW) <BR>452 Meson Screen (74.124 MW) <BR>130 [2002] Armor, 53 Structure <BR><BR><BR>Weapons (300,000km range bands) <BR>1 x 47.5k-Mj Parallel Meson (+7) 2/14-14-14-14<BR>[1,100/1547-1547-1547-1547] 100 rof<BR>1 x 51k-Mj Parallel PA (+7) 2/16-16-16-16 [1,200/1603-1603-1603-1603]<BR>200 rof<BR>2 x 3.6k Mj Parallel PA ((+7) 2/10-10-10-10 [1,100/426-426-426-426]<BR>100rof<BR>2 x 568-Mj Laser Bay (+7) 1/5-5-5-5 [2,100/60-60-60-60] 100 rof <BR>72 x 61-Mj Laser Turret [4 / ea bty] [byt rating: (+7) 1/5-2-2-2<BR>[4,200/20-20-20-20] 200 rof (PD rof: 800)]<BR>2 x Missile Bay Auto 8/8 (Mag:64 /MFD:500,000km) <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; w/72 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU <BR>Features<BR>300 x Airlock <BR>0 x Decontamination Airlock <BR>1 x Docking Umbilical <BR>1 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea.) <BR>6 x Machine Shop (10 std ea.) <BR>4 x Laboratory (8 std ea)<BR>4 x Sickbay (8 std ea.) <BR>2 x Ship's locker (15 std ea.) <BR>4 x Prisoner Capacity (2 Medium, 2 High Security) <BR>10 x Armory (2.64 std ea.) <BR>7 x Gym (2.5std ea.)<BR>3 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 60 each) <BR>10 x Full Galley (Cap: 74 each) <BR>2 x Crew Lounge (50 std ea.)<BR>1 x Combat Information Center (52 std ea.) <BR>3 x Capsule Launcher (50 rdy cap ea)<BR><BR>Small Craft<BR>4 x MinHgr (50 std, 4 hatches) <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Modular cutters<BR>8 x Docking Ring (20 std) <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8 Medium fighters <BR><BR><BR>Backups <BR>Drives: None <BR>Screens: 1 x Meson Screen (PV:143). 1 x Damper Screen (PV:160). <BR>Communications: None <BR>Sensors: 1 x PEMS (14 [50mkm]). 1 x AEMS (12 [1.6mkm]). 16 x LIDAR (14.5<BR>[500 kkm]).<BR>ECM: 1 x Deception Jammer (12). 1 x Passive Jammer (15). <BR>Power &amp; Fuel: Antimatter (1500 MW).<BR><BR>Crew Details 7 x Maneuver. 1 x Electronic. 256 x Engineering. 0 x<BR>Maintenance. 122 x Gunnery. 18 x Screen. 36 x Flight. <BR>150 x Troops. 98 x Command. 23 x Stewards. 8 x Medical.<BR><BR>Designer's notes:<BR><BR>The _Majestic_-class battlerider is a relatively straightforward<BR>extrapolation of TL-15 battleriders of similar displacement.&nbsp; Advances<BR>in power plant and materials technology allow the _Majestic_-class to<BR>carry more weapons and armor than TL-15 battleriders of similar size and<BR>acceleration.&nbsp; The combination of NPAW and meson gun as primary armament<BR>ensures optimum engagement of enemy craft.&nbsp; AuricTech Shipyards proposes<BR>the _Majestic_-class battlerider as a reasonably balanced warcraft at<BR>this tech level.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:53:58 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;AuricTech Shipyards has turned this project over to the Advanced<BR>&gt; &gt;Concepts branch of our design bureau for study.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very afraid (of the price tag, if nothing else!).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Price is no object.&nbsp; We'll be purchasing them by the dozen for field tests,<BR>&gt; and once they have the "Ditzie's Tool of the Apocalypse" rating, an order<BR>&gt; for several gross will be offered.<BR><BR>As mentioned, AuricTech Shipyards' Advanced Concepts branch has<BR>developed two proposals so far.&nbsp; Here is the second one:<BR><BR>**begin transmission**<BR><BR>_Dominator_-class Battlerider<BR><BR>Tons: 30000 std (SL Long Cone Hypersonic) <BR>Dimensions: 239.7 m x 48.3 m x 48.3 m<BR>Volume: 420000 m3<BR>Cargo: 50 std (2 hatches, Hdl: 2 x 40 t) <BR>Mass (L/C): 480328 t/ 479573 t <BR>Maintenance Points: 9085<BR>Passengers High/Med: 0/0 <BR>Crew: 321/526 <BR>Troops: 0<BR>Frozen Watch: 35 (2 groups)<BR>Cost: 257,285.963 MCr <BR>Tech Level: 18<BR>Size: 10 <BR><BR><BR>Electronics<BR>Controls: Synaptic, High automation. 10xFibComp (CM: 0.2 CP: 5.0).<BR>Terrain following sensors (TF:900, NOE:300). Bridge.<BR>Communications: 4 x Directional Radio Rec (10,000 AU / 0.02 MW). 2 x<BR>Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 16 x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW).<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 2 x Meson (1,000 AU, 5 MW).<BR>Sensors: 1xPEMS (15 [500 mkm], 5 MW). 1xAEMS (12.5 [5 mkm], LP, 50 MW).<BR>8 x LIDAR (15 [2mkm], 0.5 MW).<BR>Survey/Science: 1xDensitometer (9 [500 km]). 1xNeutrino (9 [500 km], 20<BR>MW).<BR>ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4 MW). 1 x Area. Jammer (11, 97.5 MW).<BR>1xDecp. Jammer (13, 19.5 MW).<BR>&nbsp; 1xPas. Jammer (16, 9.75 MW).<BR>Signatures: Vis: -1, IR: -0.5 (-0.5 at 72338 MW, -0.5 at 9800 MW), Act:<BR>0, Neu: -4, Grav: 2<BR><BR><BR>Performance <BR>0 Jump<BR>6 / 6 Maneuver (Thruster: 71453 MW)<BR>0 / 0 Contra-grav<BR>5000 kph/5000 kph Atmosphere Maximum <BR>3750 kph / 3750 kph Atmosphere Cruise <BR>7 Power (AntiMatter: 98000 MW,4yr) <BR>0 Battery <BR>0 Fuel <BR>450/98/2/40/135 Accomodations (Bunk/SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy<BR>Low Berth) <BR>28080 Life Sup. (Type:Extended,Good Food/Storage) <BR>6 G-Comp <BR>48 Sandcasters (AV:79/Cans:30)<BR>16 Damper Turrets (3 MW /Rng: 50000 km) <BR>300 Damper Screen (11 MW) <BR>452 Meson Screen (74.124 MW) <BR>130 [2002] Armor, 53 Structure <BR><BR><BR>Weapons (300,000km range bands) <BR>1 x 79.548k-Mj Parallel PA (+7) 2/17-17-17-17<BR>[1,100/2003-2003-2003-20603] 100 rof<BR>2 x 3.6k Mj Parallel PA ((+7) 2/10-10-10-10 [1,100/426-426-426-426]<BR>100rof<BR>40x 61-Mj Laser Turret [4 / ea bty] [byt rating: (+7) 1/5-2-2-2<BR>[4,200/20-20-20-20] 200 rof (PD rof: 800)]<BR>2 x Missile Bay Auto 8/8 (Mag:64 /MFD:500,000km) <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; w/72 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU <BR>Features<BR>300 x Airlock <BR>0 x Decontamination Airlock <BR>1 x Docking Umbilical <BR>1 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea.) <BR>5 x Machine Shop (10 std ea.) <BR>4 x Sickbay (8 std ea.) <BR>1 x Ship's locker (15 std ea.) <BR>4 x Prisoner Capacity (2 Medium, 2 High Security) <BR>10 x Armory (1.96 std ea.) <BR>5 x Gym (2.5std ea.)<BR>3 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 60 each) <BR>10 x Full Galley (Cap: 54 each) <BR>2 x Crew Lounge (40 std ea.)<BR>1 x Combat Information Center (42 std ea.) <BR>1 x Capsule Launcher (40 rdy cap ea)<BR><BR>Small Craft: None<BR><BR><BR>Backups <BR>Drives: None <BR>Screens: 1 x Meson Screen (PV:143). 1 x Damper Screen (PV:160). <BR>Communications: None <BR>Sensors: 2 x PEMS (14 [50mkm]). 1 x AEMS (12 [1.6mkm]). 16 x LIDAR (14.5<BR>[500 kkm]).<BR>ECM: 1 x Deception Jammer (12). 1 x Passive Jammer (15). <BR>Power &amp; Fuel: Antimatter (2000 MW).<BR><BR>Crew Details 7 x Maneuver. 1 x Electronic. 225 x Engineering. 16 x<BR>Maintenance. 125 x Gunnery. 18 x Screen. 40 x Troops. 72 x Command. 17 x<BR>Stewards. 5 x Medical.<BR><BR>Designer's notes:<BR><BR>The _Dominator_-class battlerider is intended to provide the largest<BR>practical NPAW on a 30,000 dton craft, while maintaining heavy armor and<BR>6-g acceleration.&nbsp; To achieve this goal, the Long Cone configuration was<BR>selected, since this configuration provided the best balance between the<BR>required NPAW tunnel length, minimum hull surface (to minimize armor<BR>mass) and usable hull volume.&nbsp; While secondary and defensive armament is<BR>inferior to that carried by the _Majestic_-class battlerider, the<BR>superior main armament is capable of tilting the odds back in favor of<BR>the _Dominator_-class.<BR><BR>**end transmission**<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:31:08 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At 10:01 20.10.00 +0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;finally started to recover from the Short Night themselves,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW: Anybody else thought it peculiar, that the Long Night, prompted by a<BR>&gt; loss of financial stability lasted 700 years, but the Short Night,<BR>prompted<BR>&gt; by the total destruction of the Imperium by a doomsday weapon gone wild,<BR>&gt; which still roams the wilds, only lasted 70 years?<BR><BR>My take on it is that the Long Night was fundamentally caused by things<BR>other than the financial collapse.<BR><BR>Basically, you had a combination of massive disruption of the old Vilani<BR>trade and maintainence routes, and basically society in general.<BR><BR>Added to this was a relatively sudden increase in misjump chances, to about<BR>1 in 216 per jump. This cuts the average working life of a starship to under<BR>10 years, as well as creating massive unfunded liability problems for<BR>insurers.<BR><BR>Interstellar society did not really start to recover until jump space got<BR>over whatever the problem was, and misjump chances went back to normal.<BR><BR>As to the Short Nap ... well, I dislike the TNE setting, but industrial<BR>societies do recover fast from disaster. Germany and North Korea got<BR>flattened pretty well over about a 4 year period, but had bounced back<BR>within 10-15 years.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:38:40 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR>&gt; If T-Plates violate logic so badly as they seem to, why don't we just get<BR>&gt; rid of them and use HEPlaR?<BR><BR>Becuase it's annoying to have to keep refueling your starship every time you<BR>want to go somewhere else.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Also, what would happen if a ship with T-Plates were to accelerate near a<BR>&gt; black-hole? Would it go faster due to the greater gravity well?<BR><BR>There were rumours of Famile Spofulam sending an expidition to take a<BR>J-class to Cygnus X-1. Maybe you could see how many gees you could squeeze<BR>out of a Moonshine class (say) ...<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:19:49 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Katharine Whitchurch [mailto:katts@globalfreeway.com.au]<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My take on it is that the Long Night was fundamentally caused <BR>&gt; by things<BR>&gt; other than the financial collapse.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Basically, you had a combination of massive disruption of the <BR>&gt; old Vilani<BR>&gt; trade and maintainence routes, and basically society in general.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Added to this was a relatively sudden increase in misjump <BR>&gt; chances, to about<BR>&gt; 1 in 216 per jump. This cuts the average working life of a <BR>&gt; starship to under<BR>&gt; 10 years, as well as creating massive unfunded liability problems for<BR>&gt; insurers.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Interstellar society did not really start to recover until <BR>&gt; jump space got<BR>&gt; over whatever the problem was, and misjump chances went back <BR>&gt; to normal.<BR><BR>Something happened to jumpsapce over the long night? <BR>(I ask because this is the first time I have heard this interesting<BR>titbit, and was wondering where else i could use it..)<BR><BR>Paul Harris<BR>- - Traveller Referee since 1984<BR>- - There is no Traveller Canon, there is only a game<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:46:55 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>On 10/23/00 at 03:40 PM,&nbsp; Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:41:40 CDT<BR>&gt;&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;So how do we account for almost a millenium of collapse?&nbsp; What were the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;high-tech, self-sufficient worlds doing through seven centuries of Night?<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Or more to the point, why *weren't* any of them doing seemingly obvious<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;things?<BR><BR>That would be 17 centuries, wouldn't it?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; That's just the point. The Long Night was brought about by people acting<BR>&gt;&gt; stupid. Think about it. Even if piracy had not een as rampant as it had<BR>&gt;&gt; been, the minor races that were subjgated by the Vilani would certainly<BR>&gt;&gt; not have had much sympathy for the humans and thus rebelled anyway. And<BR>&gt;&gt; what with the ROM being a military dictatorship, it would have only been<BR>&gt;&gt; a matter of time before it went totally bankrupt. <BR><BR>&gt;Yes, but again, the question isn't what causes the collapse, but<BR>&gt;rather, why it lasts seven centuries.&nbsp; All it takes is one<BR>&gt;self-sufficient high-tech world per sector to re-establish trade<BR>&gt;and government over most of the ex-Imperium in less than a century. <BR>&gt;And after everybody has been in a horrible depression for a few<BR>&gt;decades, with marginal worlds watching their food and air supplies<BR>&gt;teetering on the brink, my guess is that most worlds will be<BR>&gt;really, really glad when the expanding mercantilist state reaches<BR>&gt;them.&nbsp; After all, this is the model of what happened when Sylea<BR>&gt;became the Third Imperium.&nbsp; What stopped it from happening for<BR>&gt;nearly a millenium?<BR><BR>I'm sure others will have already suggested this, but 'The Long<BR>Night' was a 17 century period where there was no *Imperium* that<BR>ruled charted space.&nbsp; I don't imagine it as being devoid of<BR>interstellar trade or government, just no Imperium.&nbsp; One of the<BR>reasons I think TLN would be a great period to game in is that I see<BR>it as chock full of competing governments, companies and trade<BR>groups with power shifting back and forth and back again.&nbsp; I see it<BR>as a dynamic time, not like the static period of the 1100 3I.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:51:13 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>On 10/23/00 at 04:49 PM,&nbsp; Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt; said:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; One possible explanation is that most early attempts at rebuilding large<BR>&gt;&gt; interstellar states ran into each other too soon.&nbsp; With rough parity<BR>&gt;&gt; between such pocket empires, they tended to fight each other to<BR>&gt;&gt; exhaustion (thus delaying any rebuilding in that sector for another<BR>&gt;&gt; century or so).&nbsp; Those interstellar polities that avoid this pitfall<BR>&gt;&gt; tended to be relatively non-expansionist (such as the Old Earth Union). <BR>&gt;&gt; The Sylean Federation, OTOH, was able to grow large enough to ensure<BR>&gt;&gt; that it overmatched any nearby opponents.<BR><BR>&gt;Hrm...I can almost buy that.&nbsp; Note, however, that it doesn't look<BR>&gt;much like the LN as traditionally described -- a period of<BR>&gt;isolation, without a lot of interstellar travel going on.&nbsp; Of<BR>&gt;course, one could say the same thing about the popular impression<BR>&gt;of our own 'Dark Ages' versus the reality of the period...<BR><BR>Well, remember what we know of TLN is from 3I sources, and they are<BR>going to be somewhat prejudiced.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; Besides, the version that John<BR>is proposing (and that it appears I agree with) is more fun than<BR>1,700 years of nothing.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:56:12 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>On 10/24/00 at 01:57 PM,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;At 06:15 PM 10/23/2000 CDT, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Funny... I don't remember anyone like that from the show. What episode was <BR>&gt;&gt;that?<BR><BR>&gt;"Good luck, Captain. I think you are about to go where everyone has<BR>&gt;gone before." <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ivanova, Voices of Authority <BR><BR>IMO, Ivanova was the star of, and primary reason to watch, that series. <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:02:02 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>On 10/24/00 at 06:08 PM,&nbsp; Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Except that Asimov's long night wasn't the kind of total power<BR>&gt;vacuum we are led to believe existed between the fall of the Rule<BR>&gt;of Man and the rise of the Sylean Federation; it was more like I<BR>&gt;envision the post-Rebellion-no-Virus Imperial Space around 1200 -<BR>&gt;bunches of small and medium-sized polities, with maybe a few large<BR>&gt;ones trying to reabsorb them as 'The Imperium'.<BR><BR>Jeff, I ascribe the "total power vacuum" to the prejudices of 3I<BR>apologists.&nbsp; Frankly, I think the "bunches of small and medium-sized<BR>polities..." is precisely what was around during TLN.<BR><BR>OTOH, I also think it is possible the population was much lower and more<BR>widely scattered than during the 3I. If the Vilani didn't do much<BR>colonizing and kept populations down then there might have been only<BR>a few high pop worlds per sector.&nbsp; That would have meant that once<BR>organized trade dried up worlds really did become isolated.<BR>Expansion around a central high pop world would (or could) be slow.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:17:08 -0400<BR>From: "Daniel Poulin" &lt;danielpoulin841@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR><BR>Society is divided in two groups, those who know how to program computers<BR>and those who serve then donaughts :-)<BR><BR>Daniel Poulin<BR>danielpoulin841@home.com<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Mark Urbin" &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:50 PM<BR>Subject: Feudal Technocracy<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; From my collection of sig quotes:<BR>&gt; If I hire a sysadmin and he ISN'T a fascist, I've wasted my money.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmmm...we seemed to have wandered into TED territory...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ---<BR>&gt; urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>&gt; "Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>&gt; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ---<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:47:13 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Jones, Dean wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; ...Or, perhaps, a Traveller/Feng Shui crossover...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;:)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Or even more fun, a Traveller / Luther Arkwright crossover...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Luther would make a perfect ISS officer, and the PC's<BR>&gt; &gt; wouldn't even have to know him, they could just know the 3I's<BR>&gt; &gt; incarnation of Rose Wylde, and get drawn into the latest<BR>&gt; &gt; Disruptor plot to activate the Firefrost....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wow. I thought I was the only person on this version of Earth to<BR>&gt; own a copy of LARP!<BR><BR>I don't own a copy, but I do own several editions of the comic series, and<BR>an electronic copy of one of the adventures published on the web.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:57:04 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: FYI<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman wrote :<BR>&gt; Since this list has a higher percentage of alpha-geeks than almost any<BR>&gt; other place I know, I thought I would draw your attention to the SJ Games<BR>&gt; Jobs page:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.sjgames.com/general/jobs.html<BR><BR>Sorry, Loren, I doubt SJG can afford me.<BR>I _teach_ those sort of things at around US $1700 a day.<BR><BR>Perhaps when I retire.<BR><BR>I noticed there is also a Traveller Editor positon open, does this mean<BR>you're moving on, or is this just more staff for you ?<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt<BR><BR>Mentor / Consultant<BR>Software Education Associates Ltd.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3214<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:54:30 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:53:50 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA55029;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:53:10 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:52:56 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA54985<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:52:56 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:52:56 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010250552.BAA54985@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3214<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3215<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR>RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR>RE: Loren!!!!&nbsp; Your JTAS editorial<BR>RE: FYI<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR>RE: Welfare in the 3I<BR>Re: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>TL13 AT request<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>RE: CT/MT careers<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:06:39 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:58:54 +0100<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR><BR>And to the server software that only he understands.<BR>Compiled from a single source file, indeciferable*,<BR>with spammers and netporn for all.<BR><BR>*And not well documented either.<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Do you think that I'm crazy?<BR>Out of my mind?<BR>Do you think that I creep in the night<BR>And sleep in a phone booth?<BR><BR>"Mother People" - Frank Zappa<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 07:36:40 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Addendum to "Feudal Technocracy"<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; The Oxford Concise Dictionary defines Technocracy as the <BR>&gt; "Organization<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; and management of a country's industrial resources by <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; technical experts<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; for the good of the whole community."<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; And we all know what "feudal" means, right?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Now, there, wasn't that easy? :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They wouldn't take the step down; SysAdmins prefer to be <BR>&gt; worshipped as dieties ...<BR><BR><BR>That's right, we do :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:41:54 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren!!!!&nbsp; Your JTAS editorial<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote :<BR>&gt; Penguin Boy, sipping on his chocolate milk, hold the kiwi...<BR><BR>You deviant cross-species penguin pervert, let the poor kiwi go !<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 07:53:35 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: FYI<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Loren Wiseman wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; Since this list has a higher percentage of alpha-geeks than <BR>&gt; almost any<BR>&gt; &gt; other place I know, I thought I would draw your attention <BR>&gt; to the SJ Games<BR>&gt; &gt; Jobs page:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; http://www.sjgames.com/general/jobs.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sorry, Loren, I doubt SJG can afford me.<BR>&gt; I _teach_ those sort of things at around US $1700 a day.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps when I retire.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I noticed there is also a Traveller Editor positon open, does <BR>&gt; this mean<BR>&gt; you're moving on, or is this just more staff for you ?<BR><BR><BR>Didn't we cover this alreay a couple of weeks ago? :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:48:55 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>From: Megan Robertson &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Gog &amp; Magog are 2 giants from Welsh folklore, Legate.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks, so this brings up another point, never make peace with any being<BR>from Welsh Folklore.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:54:20 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR><BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Gog &amp; Magog are 2 giants from Welsh folklore, Legate.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Can anybody explain how they ended up in the Book of Revelations, then?<BR>&gt;'Magog' actually occurs in the Old Testament as well, in Ezekiel.&nbsp; Have we<BR>&gt;stumbled on a religious secret even more fun than _Holy Blood, Holy<BR>&gt;Grail_?&nbsp; Are the Welsh the Lost Tribe of Israel?&nbsp; Or the Hebrews the Lost<BR>&gt;Clan of Wales, for that matter?&nbsp; (They couldn't have Pict a better origin,<BR>&gt;or course...)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Or could it be due to a translator mistake?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:25:28 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Welfare in the 3I<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Has the subject of public welfare ever been dealt in any <BR>&gt; canon work? If so, <BR>&gt; are individual worlds the only source, or are there subsector-level <BR>&gt; programs? If not, I would be interested in hearing how you <BR>&gt; handle it IYTU.<BR><BR>I gloss over it and hope noone asks.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:16:10 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR><BR>"Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; My take on it is that the Long Night was fundamentally caused by<BR>&gt; things other than the financial collapse.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Basically, you had a combination of massive disruption of the old<BR>&gt; Vilani trade and maintainence routes, and basically society in<BR>&gt; general.<BR><BR>Makes sense.<BR><BR>&gt; Added to this was a relatively sudden increase in misjump chances, to<BR>&gt; about 1 in 216 per jump. This cuts the average working life of a<BR>&gt; starship to under 10 years, as well as creating massive unfunded<BR>&gt; liability problems for insurers.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Interstellar society did not really start to recover until jump space<BR>&gt; got over whatever the problem was, and misjump chances went back to<BR>&gt; normal.<BR><BR>???&nbsp; Is this something solely from your campaign?&nbsp; If not, what <BR>supplement is it from, I've never heard anything about the nature of <BR>space changing during the Long Night.<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:31:16 +0100<BR>From: Phil Kitching &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Dalton Spence wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; _most_ of 'em! After all we've backed them up to the cosmos via<BR>&gt;&gt; broadcast...sure _someone_ out there will take note of our, err,<BR>&gt;&gt; documentaries... ;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'd hate to be in charge of a project that had to untangle that mess of<BR>&gt;signals...<BR><BR>It'd take years, if not generations.<BR><BR>I'd suggest you'd better make sure you had enough children and grandchildren<BR>to complete the project.<BR><BR>;-)<BR>Phil Kitching<BR>- --<BR>&nbsp; http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>&nbsp; Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 05:06:21 -0400<BR>From: "wererat" &lt;khurgorbaeyag@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>As a silly side thought on this, I'm picturing a new strain of New Era Virus<BR>that has devoted itself to collecting and studying radio and television<BR>signals from 'back in the days' that are now bouncing aimlessly through<BR>space, perhaps in some weird effort to understand huimanity better :-)<BR><BR>- -wererat<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Phil Kitching &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 4:31 AM<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Dalton Spence wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; _most_ of 'em! After all we've backed them up to the cosmos via<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; broadcast...sure _someone_ out there will take note of our, err,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; documentaries... ;-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I'd hate to be in charge of a project that had to untangle that mess of<BR>&gt; &gt;signals...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It'd take years, if not generations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'd suggest you'd better make sure you had enough children and<BR>grandchildren<BR>&gt; to complete the project.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ;-)<BR>&gt; Phil Kitching<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:51:31 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: TL13 AT request<BR><BR>I need an TL13 infantry anti-tank weapon ... I'm&nbsp; thinking&nbsp; of&nbsp; a<BR>TL13 equivalent to the Milan anti-tank rocket (transportable&nbsp; and<BR>operable by a 4-man fireteam).<BR><BR>Has anyone got a design with&nbsp; stats&nbsp; in&nbsp; MT&nbsp; format?&nbsp; Ideally&nbsp; it<BR>should be powerful enough to pose a threat to a Zhodani Z-80 MBT.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:09:48 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin <BR>&gt; Except that Asimov's long night wasn't the kind of total power vacuum we<BR>&gt; are led to believe existed between the fall of the Rule of Man and the<BR>&gt; rise of the Sylean Federation; it was more like I envision the<BR>&gt; post-Rebellion-no-Virus Imperial Space around 1200 - bunches of small and<BR>&gt; medium-sized polities, with maybe a few large ones trying to reabsorb<BR>&gt; them as 'The Imperium'.<BR><BR>What?&nbsp; You want my ideas about M:1150?&nbsp; If not, why are you teasing me?<BR><BR>Fortunately, I wrote them down today.<BR><BR>Whatever happens, the Imperium is a smoking ruin....<BR><BR>External factions:<BR><BR>Aslan:&nbsp; Deneb stabilises the situation.&nbsp; So does Daibei, kind of.<BR><BR>Vargr:&nbsp; Deneb stabilises their situation.&nbsp; Antares succumbs to the good<BR>doggies after Brzk goes "Brzzzt".<BR><BR>Solomani:&nbsp; Suffering from war-weariness, they eventually settle for<BR>recapturing the Solomani Sphere.&nbsp; Ceasefire with the Vegans, but no peace<BR>treaty.&nbsp; Daibei gets slapped around a little, until a peace is signed, on<BR>the basis of the borders of the Solomani Sphere.&nbsp; Unity of Promise cuts a<BR>deal.&nbsp; Otherwise, yep, the Sollie Confed is back, and it's rebuilding its<BR>economy....<BR><BR>K'kree:&nbsp; Either - (a) the conflict with Lucan never gets beyond punitive<BR>expeditions or (b) the K'kree set up an outpost in Imperial space (....)<BR><BR>Internal Factions:<BR><BR>Brzk: disintegrates.&nbsp; Some elements join up with Lucan!!<BR><BR>Vland:&nbsp; Survives as a rump.<BR><BR>Daibei:&nbsp; Survives as a rump.&nbsp; Gets slapped by the Sollies, and has "issues"<BR>with the Aslan.<BR><BR>Deneb:&nbsp; Is able to stabilise.&nbsp; Runs enough supplies to Strephon across the<BR>Rift to keep Strephon in business, but not making him a serious contender.<BR><BR>Strephon:&nbsp; As above.<BR><BR>Dulinor/Lucan/Margaret:&nbsp; The serious options.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Possibilities:<BR>(a) the Coronation Fleet gets ashed by Lucan.&nbsp; Lucan discovers he can't<BR>overrun Ilelish.&nbsp; Stalemate.<BR><BR>(b) Dulinor takes Capital.&nbsp; Lucan has a misfortune.&nbsp; Margaret is still<BR>around - probably cuts a deal with Dullard, following DGP suggestions. <BR>Dulinor/Margaret *eventually* put some part of the Imperium back together.<BR><BR>(c)&nbsp; My favourite:&nbsp; Dulinor's flagship suffers battle damage and misjumps. <BR>Dulinor is run over by some random piece of agricultural machinery. <BR>Despite this, the Coronation Fleet, under his brother, Admiral Hutara,<BR>takes Capital.&nbsp; Lucan suffers a mishap.&nbsp; Eventually, Isis realises that she<BR>is the heir to the Imperium, but Hutara happens to own Capital, and is her<BR>heir, and is in charge of her security, and is generally not someone you<BR>want to trust.&nbsp; Dulinor's faction splits...&nbsp; Hutara eventually gets knifed,<BR>and the remnants of Lucan's territory splinters.&nbsp; Margaret and Isis end up<BR>looking at each other over the Wilds...&nbsp; Stalemate.<BR><BR>With a bit of fudging, this situation can hold together until 1200.&nbsp; I'm<BR>not really interested in the situation in 1300.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:54:23 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti wrote:<BR>&gt; For those of you that still use the CT/MT character generation<BR>&gt; I would like to ask you a few questions.&nbsp; Does anyone know if<BR>&gt; the Special Duty roll was created for MT or was it an CT option<BR>&gt; created by DGP?&nbsp; Do you tend to like or dislike the advanced<BR>&gt; character generation systems from Mercenary/High Guard/Scouts?<BR>&gt; Has anyone made any personal changes to the CT skill system<BR>&gt; that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your time...<BR><BR>I *only* use the advanced character generation systems in&nbsp; CT/MT.<BR>I've looked at&nbsp; the&nbsp; Basic&nbsp; system&nbsp; but&nbsp; I&nbsp; just&nbsp; don't&nbsp; like&nbsp; it<BR>(subjective opinion).&nbsp; However, I have a number of&nbsp; modifications<BR>to the advanced CGS.<BR><BR>1) I do *not* roll random homeworld characteristics but&nbsp; randomly<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; pick an actual world in the sector the campaign will be set in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; (usually limited to Imperial worlds only).<BR><BR>2) Each skill awarded is a skill point not a skill level.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; +Pts&nbsp; Total Pts&nbsp; Level<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; ... and so on.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; This means (a) many more zero level skills, and&nbsp; (b)&nbsp; not&nbsp; too<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; many really high level skills.&nbsp; This&nbsp; point&nbsp; system&nbsp; continues<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; with character advancement.<BR><BR>3) When a skill is awarded at the end of a year of service I make<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the player roll once and then look up what skill that would be<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; on each appropriate table (sometimes only 1 or&nbsp; 2&nbsp; tables&nbsp; are<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; appropriate).&nbsp; The player then gets to pick&nbsp; from&nbsp; this&nbsp; short<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; list.&nbsp; This gives a randomness to character&nbsp; generation&nbsp; while<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; still allowing the player to feel he has *some*&nbsp; control&nbsp; over<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; what kind of character he has.<BR><BR>4) When finalising a character I use the&nbsp; social&nbsp; expansion&nbsp; from<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; WBH to detail the background culture the&nbsp; character&nbsp; is&nbsp; from,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; and "The Spice Of Life" article&nbsp; from&nbsp; Challenge&nbsp; magazine&nbsp; to<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; detail any parents/siblings.<BR><BR>5) While I use the mustering out process&nbsp; to&nbsp; determine&nbsp; personal<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; possessions I usually keep characters in service.<BR><BR>I know all this takes time compared with the basic CGS, but&nbsp; IMTU<BR>PCs are the basis of&nbsp; long&nbsp; term&nbsp; campaigns,&nbsp; not&nbsp; beer-n-prezels<BR>games.&nbsp; (This should in no way infer&nbsp; I&nbsp; think&nbsp; there's&nbsp; anything<BR>wrong with the later, its just not my personal style when playing<BR>Traveller.)&nbsp; IYTU YMMV.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:44:25 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Awwww, come on people. There never was _anyone_ to match Ed Wood<BR>&gt; (thank the good Lord) and at least "Plan 9 From Outer Space" deserves<BR>&gt; to be saved. Otherwise, how will they know how bad films could get?<BR><BR>From what I heard, "Battlefield: Earth" makes Plan 9 look *good*!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:46:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Anthony Colosetti :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm currently working on a universe in which gravitics never =<BR>&gt;&gt;developed (i.e. no grav plates,inertia compensators, air/rafts, or =<BR>&gt;&gt;reactionless drives).&nbsp; What are your opinions on how different the =<BR>&gt;&gt;universe of Traveller would be if such technology had not developed?&nbsp; =<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Transport to and from planet surfaces would be many orders of<BR>&gt; magnitude more expensive. Thruster and Grav systems are relatively<BR>&gt; simple electronic devices. They are probably even solid state,<BR>&gt; so have low wear and long service lives, so are extremely cheap<BR>&gt; to operate. Any thruster drive is going to be a lot more difficult<BR>&gt; and expensive to maintain.<BR><BR>Not necessarily! The Space Shuttle engines need a near rebuild after<BR>every flight for thge same reason a race car does. Both are operating<BR>on the ragged edge of the performance envelope. <BR><BR>With a more powerful engne (say a nuclear rocket of some sort), you get<BR>similar or better performance *without* having to run on the ragged<BR>edge. Such engines could last a long time, with only "normal" levels of<BR>maintenance.<BR><BR>&gt; Thruster drives mean you've got to worry about your reaction<BR>&gt; mass budget. You have a limited reserve of reaction mass, so<BR>&gt; you can never use more than half of it, or you won't be able<BR>&gt; to slow back down again.<BR><BR>Depends on what you are doing. For example, you can use almost all of<BR>it if you are making a ground to orbit hop and have a ship thaty can<BR>use aerodynamic braking.<BR><BR>&gt; This means that the vast majority of ships won't be equiped with<BR>&gt; high thrust propulsion systems. You'll use a lot more realy big<BR>&gt; bulk transports. The economics of small starships will stop<BR>&gt; working. Instead of building whole starships with planetary<BR>&gt; landing capability, you'll use a lot more sub-craft for planetary<BR>&gt; landings, or simply rely on local interface transports.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This will concentrate access to interstellar, and indeed<BR>&gt; interplanetary transport, in the hands of governments and<BR>&gt; corporations. Both types of transport will also be much more<BR>&gt; expensive. This will lead to much greater centralised controll<BR>&gt; of economic activity.<BR><BR>Don't forget that once you've got a sizable presence in orbit, you can<BR>do things like harvest chemicals from comets or "iceballs" and use<BR>solar power to convert them into fuel. <BR><BR>Also, do some calculations and compare the trip time and fuel<BR>requirements for a interplanetary trip at 5g, 1g, .5g, .1g, and .01g.<BR><BR>You'll find that it doesn't take *that* much longer, and you'll use a<BR>*lot* less fuel. <BR><BR>Add in the fact that at .01 g you can use an ion drive (which has an<BR>Isp right up there with HEPlaR) and things look even better.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:56:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Also on the subject of the circular donut enclosed launched pads if<BR>&gt;&gt; T-plates are so benign why would so many of the pads needs these<BR>&gt;&gt; devices. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; My view on this is that the safety measures are not intended for ships in<BR>&gt; normal operation, but rather to protect against the effects of a<BR>&gt; malfunction.&nbsp; We all know how good the maintenance is on most small ships<BR>&gt; in the 3I. :)&nbsp; If a poorly-maintained coolant line blows, or a seemingly<BR>&gt; innocent cargo module turns out to contain a bomb, better to lose a single<BR>&gt; landing bay than that whole end of the port.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Alternatively, depending on how you tweak the drive vs. tech level<BR>&gt; progression, it could be the case that older ports date from a time when<BR>&gt; reaction drives were still common, and have never seen the need to<BR>&gt; redesign the facilities.&nbsp; Newer ports would look more like a large<BR>&gt; airport.&nbsp; Or you could have the blast protection design just be a silly<BR>&gt; regulation that never got taken off the books, so ports still look that<BR>&gt; way but everyone knows it's absurd. :)<BR><BR>Actually, at least during periods of expansion, reaction drive<BR>starships will be fgairly common as worlds just add jump drives to<BR>existing ships, rather than build new ships from scratch. <BR><BR>And such ships still pop up occasionally, as somebody finds one in a<BR>"junkyard" and decides to get it running again. <BR><BR>Besides, the berm around the pad makes a good place to stick cargo<BR>storage, shop space and other stuff. That way a ship can offload cargo<BR>and shut systems down while the crew (or hired techs) work on a<BR>problem. With showers (required for safety anyway), a locker room, and<BR>a few bunks (for when a crew knocks off really late), it's *barely*<BR>usable as last resort living space whiule on planet. <BR><BR>Check some posts I did a year or three back about what a "pad" might be<BR>like. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:03:33 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; The math isn't all that naty. It just required calculus, which I'm not<BR>&gt;&gt; trained in. For the folks who are, it was simple.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Leonard, you seem like a smart guy... unless you've had some sort of <BR>&gt; serious cerebral damage between now and the time you learned algebra,<BR>&gt; calculus is not too hard. University students who actively attempt<BR>&gt; to spend upwards of 50% of their time stone drunk manage to pick up<BR>&gt; the basics of it even. Heck, it's taught in high school in some <BR>&gt; parts around here.<BR><BR>I've never had classes, and what little I picked up on my own slipped<BR>away *years* ago. I know the basic principles, it's how to apply them<BR>to a problem that I'm not up to. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The key factor is that as the ship's velocity away for the object it is<BR>&gt;&gt; "pushing" on increases, trhe energy required by the drive goes up<BR>&gt;&gt; sharply.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Uh, are you talking about Newtonian or relativistic effects here?<BR><BR>Newtonian.<BR><BR>KE = .5 M * V^2<BR><BR>V being the relative velocity between the ship and what it is pushing<BR>on. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:07:54 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:11:59 PST<BR>&gt;&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; If HEPlaR is a plasma rocket, then surely the exhaust would be <BR>&gt; dissipating<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; the moment it exited the exhaust port, like the plasma and fusion guns.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Giving a very limited range for use as a weapon.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Sorry, but to function, it has to be a *jet*. Which means it'll stay<BR>&gt;&gt; together for quite some distance. The guns don't do that because they<BR>&gt;&gt; don't *want* the thrust.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not true; if anything, guns aim for better collimation than rockets do,<BR>&gt; since any of your 'exhaust' that doesn't hit a tiny angular area (the<BR>&gt; target) is wasted.&nbsp; Rockets, on the other hand, get the vector component<BR>&gt; of momentum along the thrust axis of every particle they emit; even for a<BR>&gt; 'fan' of a few degrees, that means you're gettin almost full efficiency.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What's more, a plasma is hot and unstable; it will naturally expand into<BR>&gt; the vacuum around it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Consider that someone has worked out the exhaust velocity of a HEPlaR<BR>&gt;&gt; as 13% of c (39,000 km/sec). That means that if it takes only a<BR>&gt;&gt; *millisecond* for the exhaust to double in width, the exhaust would be<BR>&gt;&gt; 39 km from the nozzle by the time it'd doubled in width. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, which is around four orders of magnitude less than typical space<BR>&gt; combat ranges.&nbsp; By the time you're out to a 0.13 light seconds, it's<BR>&gt; doubled a thousand times[1]...and 2^1000 is a pretty big number. :)&nbsp; Note<BR>&gt; that 0.1 light seconds is *one* BL/BR hex. <BR><BR>Ah! I see the problem. We aren't talking about using the drive as a<BR>weapon in *space* combat. We're talking about using it against targets<BR>on the *ground*.<BR><BR>&gt; [1] Not really, of course; the point is that it's dissipated to the point<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; that it might not even be detectable with sensitive instruments.<BR><BR>Actually, given the velocity, it'll be *very* detectable. About like a<BR>solar flare, except with a more limited area of effect. Heavy partricle<BR>radiation is a few particles per cm^2 per second!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:11:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Especially if you sunk the actual pad a few tens of metres into the<BR>&gt; bedrock, and had a network of tunnels and large fans to suck the exhaust<BR>&gt; to vents further away from the city...<BR><BR>Don't forget that you have to deal with *high* intensity sound waves,<BR>with a lot of energy in wavelengths that are going to be similar to the<BR>dimensions of that "pit". <BR><BR>You *don't* want to set up any sort of "standing wave" with *those*<BR>power levels!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:16:36 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Personally, I see this as complete nonsense. There's only one type of (true) <BR>&gt; vacuum: the total lack of matter. Right? That's what I've always thought a <BR>&gt; vacuum was (besides being the thing that you clean the carpet with (There. I <BR>&gt; beat you to it!)).<BR><BR>Except that quantum effects means that there's an incredible amount of<BR>particles appearing and disappearing all the time in a vacuum (virtual<BR>particles). <BR><BR>It's not even theory. The Casimir effect occurs *because* of all these<BR>particles. <BR><BR>Basicly, you take two flat plates, and place them in a vacuum, with<BR>their flat surfaces parallel. You'lll discover that there's a slight<BR>force attracting them to each other (besides gravity!). And the closer<BR>they get, the stronger it is.<BR><BR>The plates create a "limit" on the energy of the virtual particles that<BR>can appear between them. Since there's no such limit for the space<BR>*outside* them, the higher energy virtual particles create a pressure<BR>on the plates. <BR><BR>&gt; I don't know what a vacuum is to the rest of you, but to me, a _true_ vacuum <BR>&gt; is an infinite expanse of nothingness. No matter and no energy. (Correct me <BR>&gt; if I'm wrong, but isn't energy just matter's potential for motion? If so, <BR>&gt; then without matter, there can be no energy.)<BR><BR>No, energy can be a lot of other things. And in quantum physics, it<BR>turns out that a vacuum has *infinite* energy. That took a while for<BR>folks to wrap their heads around. <BR><BR>Under most conditions, it cancels itself out. But sometimes (like in<BR>the Casimir Effect, or the Hawking radiation from a black hole) some of<BR>it appears.<BR><BR>To quote the late J.B.S. Haldane:<BR><BR>"The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, it is queerer than<BR>we *can* imagine."<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3215<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.74]) by air-xa05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:20:00 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:19:29 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA86527;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:18:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:18:35 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA86350<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:18:34 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:18:34 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010251218.IAA86350@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3215<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3216<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR>Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>Re: Hagfish<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Collapsing Vaccuums &amp; Zero Point Energy<BR>Re: FYI<BR>Re: I need...<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: I need...<BR>Re: Hagfish<BR>Re: I need...<BR>Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>RE: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>Re: FYI<BR>Ivanova quotes (was: something else...whatever...)<BR>Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>RE: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Free Electron Lasers<BR>RE: Free Electron Lasers<BR>Planet X discovered!<BR>RE: Welfare in the 3I<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:35:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; You've overlooked the Schrodinger's Cat effect. Until you<BR>&gt;&gt; actually look, the cat is both dead and alive, so the lift you<BR>&gt;&gt; get is an average of the dead/alive lift adjusted by the<BR>&gt;&gt; relative probabilities of each state... <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It took me&nbsp; a&nbsp; little&nbsp; while&nbsp; to&nbsp; realise&nbsp; the&nbsp; error&nbsp; here.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; Schrodinger's Cat effect is not in effect this way.&nbsp; You do *not*<BR>&gt; actually need to look at Mr Kitty to collapse his wave&nbsp; state&nbsp; to<BR>&gt; "alive" or "dead", the action of the Cat/toast drive doubles as a<BR>&gt; measuring&nbsp; device&nbsp; and&nbsp; that&nbsp; has&nbsp; the&nbsp; same&nbsp; effect&nbsp; as&nbsp;&nbsp; direct<BR>&gt; observation.&nbsp; (This *has* been confirmed in RL lab experiments.)<BR><BR>I knew it was wrong when I wrote it. But why let reality spoil a good<BR>(silly!) idea?<BR><BR>And actually, the error is that the dead/alive depends on an event at<BR>the "molar" level, not at the subatomic level. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:38:01 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:11:04 PST<BR>&gt;&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; "Marrooned in Realtime" makes it clear that you can bobble for<BR>&gt;&gt; multi-million year timespans. Even if the Peacers did it by mistake. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's been a while since I read that, but my hazy memory has long-term<BR>&gt; bobbling being done by bobbling forward a few centuries at a time at most,<BR>&gt; and just immediately re-bobbling if it's not time to wake up yet.&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt; there instances of longer-term bobbles that I'm forgetting?<BR><BR>Yes, the Peacer base under Cambodia...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; A bobbler would make an interesting "Ancient artifact". <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh, my...yes it would indeed. :)&nbsp; Just be sure to limit the bobble size,<BR>&gt; range, and number of uses ("I'm sorry, but you just can't seem to find a<BR>&gt; replacement TL-28 battery...") unless you want the PCs to rule known<BR>&gt; space.<BR><BR>Reality intrusion here... (based on discussion some time back in<BR>rec.arts.sf.science) <BR><BR>Alas, both stasis fields and bobbles are unworkable for one simple<BR>reason. They are a volume of space where time runs *very* slowly (or is<BR>stopped). General relativity says that the required curvature of<BR>space-time will act like a *huge* mass.<BR><BR>In short, they'd have a gravity field like a black hole!<BR><BR>They'd be in the same class was cosmic strings or domain walls (in<BR>fact, they *are "domain walls"!).<BR><BR><BR>Another evil "Ancient artifact" idea...<BR><BR>A Stargate, like on the TV show. <BR><BR>Before anyone starts screaming, stop and consider things a bit. Yes,<BR>it's instant travel/communication. But it has a definite *small*<BR>capacity. And the gates may be scattered widely enough that they aren't<BR>going to affect *internal* communications in the various areas.<BR><BR>So even if they manage to move a gate, it won't do any good unless they<BR>can find *several* within a reasonable trip time. <BR><BR>Hey! Maybe *that's* why the Zhodani are doing the Core expeditions! <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:53:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; From my collection of sig quotes:<BR>&gt; If I hire a sysadmin and he ISN'T a fascist, I've wasted my money.<BR><BR>I resemble that remark. :-)<BR><BR>Back when I was effectively a SysAdmin at one job, a friend gave me a<BR>copy of "Chekisty: A History of the KGB" as a present. I read it at<BR>work and told folks I was looking for ideas about policy... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 05:02:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I'll need a little<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; time to create some rubber physics and a plausible time <BR>&gt;&gt; machine but...yeah.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; All you really need is an improved reactionless drive. Jump <BR>&gt;&gt; drives plus<BR>&gt;&gt; easily reached near c velocities gives time travel...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nah, Time dilation's too easy.<BR><BR>It's not just time dilation. You have to hit near c velocities in the<BR>right directions, and make the right jumps. But if you do it all right,<BR>you wind up in the past.<BR><BR>Don't ask me for detailed instructions, I'm still trying to get someone<BR>to draw them up... &lt;sigh&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 05:05:39 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Hagfish<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Way cool animal for PCs to encounter. Somewhere from the link<BR>&gt; you can probably also get the link to the cave where the walls<BR>&gt; drip pH 0.5 sulphuric acid... and the fish and slimes that live <BR>&gt; within. Cool planetside adventure possibilities.<BR><BR>Actually, given the right geology (say, something like Io) you could<BR>have an entire *planet* like that mine.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:19:51 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Awwww, come on people. There never was _anyone_ to match Ed Wood<BR>&gt; &gt; (thank the good Lord) and at least "Plan 9 From Outer <BR>&gt; Space" deserves<BR>&gt; &gt; to be saved. Otherwise, how will they know how bad films could get?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From what I heard, "Battlefield: Earth" makes Plan 9 look *good*!<BR><BR>http://www.brunching.com/selfmade/selfmade-battlefieldearth.html<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 05:46:52 -0700<BR>From: "Simon Hibbs" &lt;simonh_hibbs@my-deja.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Collapsing Vaccuums &amp; Zero Point Energy<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson :<BR><BR>&gt;To quote the late J.B.S. Haldane:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, it is queerer than<BR>&gt;we *can* imagine."<BR><BR>Or to put it another way : If you want a universe you can understand<BR>try Science Fiction, because Physics isn't going to give it to you.<BR><BR><BR>Simon Hibbs<BR><BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--<BR>Before you buy.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:53:37 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: FYI<BR><BR>&gt;I _teach_ those sort of things at around US $1700 a day.<BR><BR>How nice for you.<BR><BR>&gt; I noticed there is also a Traveller Editor positon open, does this mean<BR>&gt;&nbsp; you're moving on, or is this just more staff for you ?<BR><BR>This is to take some of the pressure off of me and give me more time to <BR>_write_.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:07:06 -0400<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>At 10:18 PM 10/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;AuricTech Shipyards' Advanced Concepts branch has come up with two<BR>&gt;proposals so far.&nbsp; Here is the first one:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;**begin transmission**<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;_Majestic_-class Battlerider<BR><BR>&gt;_Dominator_-class Battlerider<BR><BR>We'll take two squadrons of 12 each for tests.&nbsp; Once they pass their <BR>initial shakedown cruises (i.e. scare the he11 out of the players) long <BR>term, high volume production requests will be presented for production <BR>examples and tenders (each tender to carry either 6 or 12 riders, <BR>significant troop and secondary craft capacity, and overall command and <BR>control facilities) as well as variants with additional command capability.<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:15:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>Charles C wrote:<BR>&gt; Now, admittedly this would be a kind of grim universe, with eventual doom<BR>&gt; virtually certain, but some people are into that kind of thing.&nbsp; And of<BR>&gt; course, the PCs could find some ancient technomagical doohickey to undo<BR>&gt; the disaster...<BR><BR>Can you say "Well World"? :)<BR><BR>Just get someone to reboot the universe...<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:24:59 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 10:18 PM 10/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;AuricTech Shipyards' Advanced Concepts branch has come up with two<BR>&gt; &gt;proposals so far.&nbsp; Here is the first one:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;**begin transmission**<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;_Majestic_-class Battlerider<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;_Dominator_-class Battlerider<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; We'll take two squadrons of 12 each for tests.&nbsp; Once they pass their<BR>&gt; initial shakedown cruises (i.e. scare the he11 out of the players) long<BR>&gt; term, high volume production requests will be presented for production<BR>&gt; examples and tenders (each tender to carry either 6 or 12 riders,<BR>&gt; significant troop and secondary craft capacity, and overall command and<BR>&gt; control facilities) as well as variants with additional command capability.<BR><BR>BTW, I have one more battlerider in the works.&nbsp; Needle configuration,<BR>only 2G acceleration, but with a much larger NPAW (as I'm sure you've<BR>noticed, AuricTech has an affinity for NPAWs over meson guns).&nbsp; I hope<BR>to have it posted this evening.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks!<BR><BR>We aim to please!<BR><BR>- --<BR><BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:30:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hagfish<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;From the New Scientist...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.newscientist.com/slime/slime.jsp?id=ns22295<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Throw a medium-sized hagfish into a five-gallon bucket <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; and annoy it sufficiently--grab it or stress it<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; out in some way--and it can turn pretty much all the <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; water in the bucket to slime. Almost instantaneously." <BR><BR>Truly disgusting stuff! And then it ties itself in a knot to<BR>scrape the slime off itself..<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Way cool animal for PCs to encounter. Somewhere from the link<BR>&gt; you can probably also get the link to the cave where the walls<BR>&gt; drip pH 0.5 sulphuric acid... and the fish and slimes that live <BR>&gt; within. Cool planetside adventure possibilitie.<BR>&gt; <BR>I think parts of that mine have stuff with a pH of -1.5 or <BR>something obscene. Places where breathing the air through your<BR>mouth corrodes the enamel on your teeth at a palpable rate.<BR>A classic example of a corrosive or even insidious atmosphere.<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:30:20 -0400<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I need...<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BTW, I have one more battlerider in the works.&nbsp; Needle configuration,<BR>&gt;only 2G acceleration, but with a much larger NPAW (as I'm sure you've<BR>&gt;noticed, AuricTech has an affinity for NPAWs over meson guns).&nbsp; I hope<BR>&gt;to have it posted this evening.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Thanks!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;We aim to please!<BR><BR>Any chance of upping the acceleration on that one?&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:32:42 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: Alun Moon &lt;alun.moon@newcastle.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt; It's not just time dilation. You have to hit near c velocities in the<BR>&gt; right directions, and make the right jumps. But if you do it all right,<BR>&gt; you wind up in the past.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Don't ask me for detailed instructions, I'm still trying to get someone<BR>&gt; to draw them up... &lt;sigh&gt;<BR><BR>It almost sounds like you need an extension of jump physics.<BR>(having missed the beginning of this... are there archives anywhere?)<BR><BR>Time dilation won't let you go back in time, just let the universe<BR>overtake you.<BR><BR>In a sense a jump field is almost time travel.&nbsp; You arrive in a system <BR>1pc away (jump1), in about a week.&nbsp; 1pc is 3.25ltyr (or is it 4.25),<BR>So under conventional physics you exist both at your destination and<BR>in the system you begain in.&nbsp; (you don't really, but an observer would <BR>see you in both locations).<BR><BR>If you can twist the jump fields and energies enougth, then that might <BR>be enough to send you back in time.<BR>It will probably need a *huge* ammount of energy (anti-matter power<BR>plant?), or a fixed site (didn't the ancients develop portal<BR>technology?) as the power-plant might be too big to move.<BR><BR>On the other hand this would be one hell of a misjump to throw at your <BR>players?<BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Words like `technology' stem from a Greek word, that means *art* as well as<BR>technology. <BR><BR>We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers.<BR>We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; holographic demons and invocations of equations.<BR>These are the tools we employ and we know many things.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- Elric to Captain Sheridan in Babylon 5<BR>___________________________________________________________________________<BR>Dr Alun Moon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Research Engineer<BR>alun.moon@newcastle.ac.uk&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; RCID<BR>tel: +44(191) 222 5306&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Bruce Building,<BR>fax: +44(191) 222 5833&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; University of Newcastle upon Tyne.&nbsp; NE1 7RU<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:35:26 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; It's not just time dilation. You have to hit near c <BR>&gt; velocities in the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; right directions, and make the right jumps. But if you do <BR>&gt; it all right,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; you wind up in the past.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Don't ask me for detailed instructions, I'm still trying <BR>&gt; to get someone<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; to draw them up... &lt;sigh&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It almost sounds like you need an extension of jump physics.<BR>&gt; (having missed the beginning of this... are there archives anywhere?)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Time dilation won't let you go back in time, just let the universe<BR>&gt; overtake you.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In a sense a jump field is almost time travel.&nbsp; You arrive in <BR>&gt; a system <BR>&gt; 1pc away (jump1), in about a week.&nbsp; 1pc is 3.25ltyr (or is it 4.25),<BR>&gt; So under conventional physics you exist both at your destination and<BR>&gt; in the system you begain in.&nbsp; (you don't really, but an <BR>&gt; observer would <BR>&gt; see you in both locations).<BR><BR>As is any mechanism which either involves or implies superluminal motion<BR>(yes, I know that the jump drive allows travel without movement, but the<BR>fact that one moves into a area which is spacelike relative to the origin of<BR>the jump allows it to be defined as superluminal).<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:25:31 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FYI<BR><BR>At 08:53 25.10.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I noticed there is also a Traveller Editor positon open, does this mean<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; you're moving on, or is this just more staff for you ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This is to take some of the pressure off of me and give me more time to<BR>&gt;_write_.<BR><BR>Wooo-hooo, great to hear that!<BR>Can I hear you say backplot?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:49:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Ivanova quotes (was: something else...whatever...)<BR><BR>"&gt;"Good luck, Captain. I think you are about to go where everyone has<BR>&gt;gone before."<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ivanova, Voices of Authority<BR><BR>IMO, Ivanova was the star of, and primary reason to watch, that series."<BR><BR>My favorite Ivanova line was short and sweet.&nbsp; After everyone else in the<BR>scene had gone into long detailed explanations about their roles in the<BR>upcoming 'big plan', she states simply "I'll be in the car."&nbsp; Cracked me<BR>up!&nbsp; Forget which episode it was now...<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:50:17 -0500<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard Heroes<BR>that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR><BR>http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:57:36 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>Oooh! Nice. I think I recognise a couple of these guys from my current game.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Loren Wiseman [mailto:lkw@io.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 25 October 2000 14:50<BR>&gt; To: Traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; We thought people might like to see a small sample of the <BR>&gt; Cardboard Heroes<BR>&gt; that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; <BR>http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:59:47 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Free Electron Lasers<BR><BR>Anybody remember a brief thread a few weeks ago<BR>discussing free electron lasers as shipboard weapons?<BR><BR>Well, guess what?<BR><BR>http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/fel_001023.html<BR><BR>(Makes me wonder if the Pentagon is lurking on<BR>the TML.)<BR><BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:05:08 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Free Electron Lasers<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anybody remember a brief thread a few weeks ago<BR>&gt; discussing free electron lasers as shipboard weapons?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, guess what?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/fel_001023.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (Makes me wonder if the Pentagon is lurking on<BR>&gt; the TML.)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>They aren't, but we have an understanding...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:10:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>Well okay, not really...but it is pretty interesting:<BR><BR>http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds016.htm<BR><BR>An iceball named EB173, ~400 miles in diameter has been found between<BR>Neptune and Pluto.&nbsp; They're calling it a "Plutino".&nbsp; Apparently this is<BR>again bringing up the whole issue of what a "planet" is, officially.&nbsp; This<BR>new body just misses the (arbitrarily chosen) mark in terms of mass.&nbsp; It<BR>has the other characteristics: Independent orbit and sufficient gravity to<BR>form a spherical shape.<BR><BR>EB173 XS00000-0<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:08:38 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Welfare in the 3I<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; Has the subject of public welfare ever been dealt in any canon<BR>&gt; work? If so, are individual worlds the only source, or are<BR>&gt; there subsector-level programs? If not, I would be interested<BR>&gt; in hearing how you handle it IYTU.<BR><BR>If&nbsp; the&nbsp; Imperium&nbsp; "exists&nbsp; only&nbsp; between&nbsp; the&nbsp; planets"&nbsp; and&nbsp; is<BR>essentially a trade protectorate that it&nbsp; can&nbsp; be&nbsp; inferred&nbsp; that<BR>public welfare will only exist at the&nbsp; planetary&nbsp; level&nbsp; ...&nbsp; and<BR>will vary from non-existant to "socialist&nbsp; utopia"&nbsp; depending&nbsp; on<BR>the planet.&nbsp; The only wider programs would&nbsp; be&nbsp; indirect&nbsp; in&nbsp; the<BR>form of Imperial&nbsp; ship&nbsp; construction&nbsp; contracts,&nbsp; etc,&nbsp; sometimes<BR>being allocated to poor planets to boost their economy.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:15:40 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>A couple of people have noted that it would be very difficult to<BR>disentangle all the TV signals being broadcast out into space, but how<BR>hard would it be to detect that the Sol system was putting out more radio<BR>energy than it should be?&nbsp; Are our broadcasts just a drop in the bucket,<BR>or would they make a significact difference?&nbsp; <BR><BR>Are there even now astronomers on Tau Ceti IV trying to figure out why<BR>that yellow dwarf a few ly away has been increasing in radio emmissions<BR>over the last few decades?&nbsp; Has anyone there suggested an industrial<BR>society?&nbsp; Have they been silenced?&nbsp; Or are they dismissing that out of<BR>hand and trying to come up with some astrophysical phenomenon to explain<BR>it... &lt;cue spooky music&gt;<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:18:24 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Personally, I see this as complete nonsense. There's only one type of <BR>&gt;(true)<BR>&gt; &gt; vacuum: the total lack of matter. Right? That's what I've always thought <BR>&gt;a<BR>&gt; &gt; vacuum was (besides being the thing that you clean the carpet with <BR>&gt;(There. I<BR>&gt; &gt; beat you to it!)).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Except that quantum effects means that there's an incredible amount of<BR>&gt;particles appearing and disappearing all the time in a vacuum (virtual<BR>&gt;particles).<BR><BR>Wouldn't this violate the law that matter cannot under ordinary <BR>circumstances be created or destroyed?<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's not even theory. The Casimir effect occurs *because* of all these<BR>&gt;particles.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Basicly, you take two flat plates, and place them in a vacuum, with<BR>&gt;their flat surfaces parallel. You'lll discover that there's a slight<BR>&gt;force attracting them to each other (besides gravity!). And the closer<BR>&gt;they get, the stronger it is.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The plates create a "limit" on the energy of the virtual particles that<BR>&gt;can appear between them. Since there's no such limit for the space<BR>&gt;*outside* them, the higher energy virtual particles create a pressure<BR>&gt;on the plates.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Could this be how T-Plates work?<BR><BR>Philisophical Question of the Day: If you put two plate into a vacuum, would <BR>it still be a vacuum?<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I don't know what a vacuum is to the rest of you, but to me, a _true_ <BR>&gt;vacuum<BR>&gt; &gt; is an infinite expanse of nothingness. No matter and no energy. (Correct <BR>&gt;me<BR>&gt; &gt; if I'm wrong, but isn't energy just matter's potential for motion? If <BR>&gt;so,<BR>&gt; &gt; then without matter, there can be no energy.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;To quote the late J.B.S. Haldane:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, it is queerer than<BR>&gt;we *can* imagine."<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I'd have to agree.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>(slightly different from now on: no more episode/scene references)<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #11<BR><BR>Harrison watched as the last crate was loaded into the EijAnr's cargo bay. <BR>He checked it off on his hand computer and put it away. He turned on his <BR>wrist comm and informed Captain Rokodo that everything was in place.<BR><BR>"Good," Rokodo replied, "Get to your quarters. We'll be leaving in about <BR>thirty minutes."<BR><BR>"Yes, sir," Harrison said and turned the comm off. Suddenly, a feeling of <BR>worry came over him. Something was wrong. Against his better judgement, <BR>Harrison went to his quarters.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3216<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:20:59 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:19:52 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA97168;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:19:07 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:18:56 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA97124<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:18:56 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:18:56 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010251418.KAA97124@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3216<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3217<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>gearhead fodder<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>Re: Hagfish<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>RE: Hagfish<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Hagfish<BR>Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR>RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Ivanova quotes (was: something else...whatever...)<BR>Radio Astronomy <BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Landgrab: Yori ... update<BR>RE: Radio Astronomy <BR>Re: Ivanova quotes (was: something else...whatever...)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:19:03 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: gearhead fodder<BR><BR>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_988000/988265.stm<BR><BR>Cars that run off compressed air.&nbsp; Really... Average speed 80 KPH (50 MPH).<BR>The fearless band of Travellers are on a TL 7/8 world where these <BR>lightweight vehicles are the only ones available in cities recovering from <BR>TL 6/7 pollution.&nbsp; A bit of a pest trying to make a get away, and the light <BR>frame really doesn't do much to stop incoming rounds...<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"Raised in a Washington hotel room in his youth, real<BR>life is something Al Gore has read about but not lived."<BR>- -- Dick Morris -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:33:16 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; I knew it was wrong when I wrote it. But why let reality spoil<BR>&gt; a good (silly!) idea?<BR><BR>I can go along with that.&nbsp; I'm begining to&nbsp; feel&nbsp; that&nbsp; that&nbsp; was<BR>God's philiosophy when he designed the&nbsp; universe.&nbsp; How&nbsp; else&nbsp; can<BR>you explain quantum mechanics?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; And actually, the error is that the dead/alive depends on an<BR>&gt; event at the "molar" level, not at the subatomic level. <BR><BR>Er, you mean if you spin the drive fast&nbsp; enough&nbsp; Mr Kitty's&nbsp; back<BR>teeth will come out?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:35:03 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I knew it was wrong when I wrote it. But why let reality spoil<BR>&gt; &gt; a good (silly!) idea?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I can go along with that.&nbsp; I'm begining to&nbsp; feel&nbsp; that&nbsp; that&nbsp; was<BR>&gt; God's philiosophy when he designed the&nbsp; universe.&nbsp; How&nbsp; else&nbsp; can<BR>&gt; you explain quantum mechanics?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; And actually, the error is that the dead/alive depends on an<BR>&gt; &gt; event at the "molar" level, not at the subatomic level. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Er, you mean if you spin the drive fast&nbsp; enough&nbsp; Mr Kitty's&nbsp; back<BR>&gt; teeth will come out?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Cats don't have molars, they're carnivores.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:44:15 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; Wouldn't this violate the law that matter cannot under ordinary <BR>&gt; circumstances be created or destroyed?<BR><BR>As I understand it ...<BR><BR>(a) You mean "energy" not "matter".<BR><BR>(b) That's only true in the "long term", at the quantum level you<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; can have an energy overdraft ... but the&nbsp; bigger&nbsp; it&nbsp; is&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; shorter&nbsp; the&nbsp; "loan"&nbsp; period.&nbsp;&nbsp; This&nbsp; quantum&nbsp; borrowing&nbsp;&nbsp; is<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; necessary to make certain subatomic processes work.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; With Hawking radiation you don't even need to "pay back"&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; energy to the same place you borrowed it: you&nbsp; borrow&nbsp; energy<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; from the region near a black hole and the black hole&nbsp; shrinks<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by the same amount ... without anything&nbsp; coming&nbsp; out&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; black hole directly!<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:49:56 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; And actually, the error is that the dead/alive depends on an<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; event at the "molar" level, not at the subatomic level. <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Er, you mean if you spin the drive fast&nbsp; enough&nbsp; Mr Kitty's&nbsp; back<BR>&gt; &gt; teeth will come out?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cats don't have molars, they're carnivores.<BR><BR>Well, if cats don't have molars then they are exempt&nbsp; from&nbsp; molar<BR>level events.&nbsp; Then ... Mr Kitty lives!<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:55:31 -0400<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hagfish<BR><BR>Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Truly disgusting stuff! And then it ties itself in a knot to<BR>&gt; scrape the slime off itself..<BR><BR>It's the water-to-slime _instantaneously_ thing that gets me.<BR>Like, wow, what a mechanism. Imagine something a lot bigger <BR>than a hagfish with the same mechanism, like, say, something<BR>seal or dolphin-sized... that's a lot of slime!<BR><BR>I also bring it up because I have a soft spot for underwater<BR>adventures. Nothing could be more disturbing for a vacuum-tough<BR>spacer to have to put on a tight wetsuit and do some underwater<BR>caving. Or, better yet, exploring a starship that had to ditch<BR>in water as opposed to on land. Which Bond movie had the underwater<BR>fight scene with the hard suit? I love that stuff.<BR><BR>&gt; I think parts of that mine have stuff with a pH of -1.5 or<BR>&gt; something obscene. Places where breathing the air through your<BR>&gt; mouth corrodes the enamel on your teeth at a palpable rate.<BR>&gt; A classic example of a corrosive or even insidious atmosphere.<BR><BR>Ah, but it's not... typical corrosive or insidious atmospheres<BR>are unbreathable. You can stick PCs somewhere like this where<BR>they have the initial impression that it's safe to go without<BR>protective gear, but as they get further and further in it gets<BR>less and less hospitable.<BR><BR>Ethan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:53:48 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; And actually, the error is that the dead/alive depends on an<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; event at the "molar" level, not at the subatomic level. <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Er, you mean if you spin the drive fast&nbsp; enough&nbsp; Mr Kitty's&nbsp; back<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; teeth will come out?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Cats don't have molars, they're carnivores.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, if cats don't have molars then they are exempt&nbsp; from&nbsp; molar<BR>&gt; level events.&nbsp; Then ... Mr Kitty lives!<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Sorry, but although they don't have molars, they do have moles (but you<BR>can't see 'em, 'cos they're under the fur). THings take place under the fur,<BR>on the level where the moles are, and these are 'molar level events'<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:54:51 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Hagfish<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Truly disgusting stuff! And then it ties itself in a knot to<BR>&gt; &gt; scrape the slime off itself..<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's the water-to-slime _instantaneously_ thing that gets me.<BR>&gt; Like, wow, what a mechanism. Imagine something a lot bigger <BR>&gt; than a hagfish with the same mechanism, like, say, something<BR>&gt; seal or dolphin-sized... that's a lot of slime!<BR><BR><BR>Rofl:- Slime-Dolphins from Outer Space!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:56:26 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>&gt;Well okay, not really...but it is pretty interesting:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds016.htm<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;An iceball named EB173, ~400 miles in diameter has been found between<BR>&gt;Neptune and Pluto.&nbsp; They're calling it a "Plutino".&nbsp; Apparently this is<BR>&gt;again bringing up the whole issue of what a "planet" is, officially.&nbsp; This<BR>&gt;new body just misses the (arbitrarily chosen) mark in terms of mass.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt;has the other characteristics: Independent orbit and sufficient gravity to<BR>&gt;form a spherical shape.<BR><BR>Well. This just blows Bode's Law right out the window, doesn't it?<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;EB173 XS00000-0<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Don't you mean:<BR><BR>EB173 YS00000-0?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #12<BR><BR>There was an awkward feeling as the EijAnr entered jumpspace. There was <BR>always an awkward feeling, but this time it was particularly weird. It <BR>probably wasn't a misjump, but it was nauseating anyway.<BR><BR>But that didn't keep _him_ from complaining.<BR><BR>Baron Adrian Walk was the kind of man who thought that since he was a noble <BR>(no matter how minor), he was entitled to be treated like some kind of <BR>deity. He was rude, snooty, and made you want to strangle him at every turn. <BR>That he had bought a high passage for a free trader instead of a subsidized <BR>liner was mind-boggiling (the thought occured to Harrison later that nobody <BR>else would put up with him). That he had bought a high passage for the <BR>EijAnr was just plain cruel.<BR><BR>It was the kind of jump that could only end in a gunshot. Not a jury in the <BR>universe would convict them. But the paperwork would just take too long. <BR>They'd have to put up with him for a week.<BR><BR>Harrison had always wondered if there was a God. If so, this had be some <BR>kind of test.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:04:01 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Wouldn't this violate the law that matter cannot under ordinary<BR>&gt; &gt; circumstances be created or destroyed?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;As I understand it ...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(a) You mean "energy" not "matter".<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I was talking about virtual particles. Aren't they matter?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #13<BR><BR>"Mr. Harrison!" The voice came loud and clear over Harrison's wrist comm.<BR><BR>"Listen Baron Walk," he said, "For the last time: I'm the sales manager. If <BR>you have a problem, please take it up with Captain Rodoko. Understood?"<BR><BR>"He isn't responding to my calls!" the Baron said, "And there's an odd smell <BR>in my stateroom."<BR><BR>"That's not my problem," Harrison said. He quickly turned the comm off and <BR>took out the battery.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:05:20 -0400<BR>From: Justin Kim &lt;justinki@bellatlantic.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hagfish<BR><BR>At 10:55 AM 10/25/00 -0400, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Which Bond movie had the underwater<BR>&gt;fight scene with the hard suit? I love that stuff.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "For Your Eyes Only"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:46:47 GMT<BR>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: St. John of Cardiff<BR><BR>A giant called Gogmagog features in Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of<BR>the Kings of Britain, written in AD 1136.&nbsp; Gogmagog lived in Cornwall,<BR>and fought against the first British settlers in the island.<BR><BR>Geoffrey apparently based his work (which was intended to be fact, not<BR>fiction) on Welsh folktales and oral histories.&nbsp; Since he was literate<BR>in Latin and presumably knew the Bible well, I suspect he heard a<BR>Welsh name that sounded like "Gogmagog" and assimilated it in his mind<BR>to the two characters in the Book of Revelation.<BR><BR>(The history also claims that the first King of Britain was the<BR>great-grandson of Aeneas of Troy, making him related to but senior to<BR>Romulus and Remus.&nbsp; His recorded successors included King Lear, Old<BR>King Cole, and King Arthur)<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:46:49 GMT<BR>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:02:02 -0500<BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;Frankly, I think the "bunches of small and medium-sized<BR>&gt;polities..." is precisely what was around during TLN.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;OTOH, I also think it is possible the population was much lower and more<BR>&gt;widely scattered than during the 3I. <BR><BR>I've always thought that the Long Night was a good explanation for why<BR>so many planets in the 3I era have pre-starflight technologies.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I can accept that a colony might have a *slightly* lower TL than its<BR>parent world, at least until its industry got into gear - but not that<BR>they would deliberately spend their capital on setting up factories to<BR>make steam engines, sailing ships, etc when they knew full well how to<BR>make fusion plants and CG modules.&nbsp; Similarly, there are only so many<BR>newly discovered minor races, anti-tech religious dictatorships and<BR>back-to-nature movements you can fit into one sector.&nbsp; So, IMO the<BR>best way to account for the vast number of worlds below TL9 is that<BR>they were originally settled at that tech level or higher, but some<BR>Imperium-wide catastrophe in the distant past caused most worlds to<BR>regress to pre-starflight or even pre-industrial levels.&nbsp; The Long<BR>Night fits the bill, and (Third) Imperial policies of planetary<BR>autonomy meant that no serious effort was ever made to help the<BR>lower-tech planets to "catch up" again.<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>&gt;- -- <BR>&gt;- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>&gt;http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>&gt;- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:17:08 -0400<BR>&gt;From: "Daniel Poulin" &lt;danielpoulin841@home.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Society is divided in two groups, those who know how to program computers<BR>&gt;and those who serve then donaughts :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Daniel Poulin<BR>&gt;danielpoulin841@home.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt;From: "Mark Urbin" &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:50 PM<BR>&gt;Subject: Feudal Technocracy<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;So a Feudal Technocracy is where you swear fealty to the SysAdmin? :)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; From my collection of sig quotes:<BR>&gt;&gt; If I hire a sysadmin and he ISN'T a fascist, I've wasted my money.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Hmmm...we seemed to have wandered into TED territory...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;- ---<BR>&gt;&gt; urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>&gt;&gt; "Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>&gt;&gt; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>&gt;&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;- ---<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:47:13 +1300<BR>&gt;From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jones, Dean wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; ...Or, perhaps, a Traveller/Feng Shui crossover...<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;:)<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Or even more fun, a Traveller / Luther Arkwright crossover...<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Luther would make a perfect ISS officer, and the PC's<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; wouldn't even have to know him, they could just know the 3I's<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; incarnation of Rose Wylde, and get drawn into the latest<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Disruptor plot to activate the Firefrost....<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Wow. I thought I was the only person on this version of Earth to<BR>&gt;&gt; own a copy of LARP!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I don't own a copy, but I do own several editions of the comic series, and<BR>&gt;an electronic copy of one of the adventures published on the web.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Frankie<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:57:04 +1300<BR>&gt;From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: FYI<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Loren Wiseman wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt; Since this list has a higher percentage of alpha-geeks than almost any<BR>&gt;&gt; other place I know, I thought I would draw your attention to the SJ Games<BR>&gt;&gt; Jobs page:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; http://www.sjgames.com/general/jobs.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sorry, Loren, I doubt SJG can afford me.<BR>&gt;I _teach_ those sort of things at around US $1700 a day.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Perhaps when I retire.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I noticed there is also a Traveller Editor positon open, does this mean<BR>&gt;you're moving on, or is this just more staff for you ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Frank G. Pitt<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Mentor / Consultant<BR>&gt;Software Education Associates Ltd.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3214<BR>&gt;***********************************<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>&gt;If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>&gt;coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>&gt;address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>&gt;"local-traveller":<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>&gt;subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>&gt;in the commands above with "traveller".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:49:29 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Scout Uniforms &amp; Contra-G Cats<BR><BR>Dean Jones writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; Well, if cats don't have molars then they are exempt from molar<BR>&gt; &gt; level events.&nbsp; Then ... Mr Kitty lives!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sorry, but although they don't have molars, they do have moles<BR>&gt; (but you can't see 'em, 'cos they're under the fur). THings take<BR>&gt; place under the fur, on the level where the moles are, and these<BR>&gt; are 'molar level events'<BR><BR>Then ... Mr Kitty dies.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:59:21 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Wouldn't this violate the law that matter cannot under ordinary<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; circumstances be created or destroyed?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;As I understand it ...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;(a) You mean "energy" not "matter".<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was talking about virtual particles. Aren't they matter?<BR><BR>I think so.&nbsp; But *matter* can be destroyed ... this is where&nbsp; the<BR>energy of an atom bomb, or the sun comes from: the conversion&nbsp; of<BR>matter into energy.&nbsp; Matter/antimatter reactions&nbsp; do&nbsp; this,&nbsp; too.<BR>But you can think of matter as 'frozen'&nbsp; energy&nbsp; ...&nbsp; the&nbsp; energy<BR>that went into making the matter is returned&nbsp; to&nbsp; you&nbsp; when&nbsp; that<BR>matter is destroyed.&nbsp; So under normal circumstances *energy*&nbsp; can<BR>neither be created nor destroyed, merely changed from one form to<BR>another (including matter).<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:02:23 -0500<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ivanova quotes (was: something else...whatever...)<BR><BR>At 09:49 AM 10/25/00 -0400, Charles C. wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;My favorite Ivanova line was short and sweet.&nbsp; After everyone else in the<BR>&gt;scene had gone into long detailed explanations about their roles in the<BR>&gt;upcoming 'big plan', she states simply "I'll be in the car."&nbsp; Cracked me<BR>&gt;up!&nbsp; Forget which episode it was now...<BR><BR>War Without End, Part I<BR><BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:05:08 -0500<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Radio Astronomy <BR><BR>At 10:15 AM 10/25/00 -0400, Charles C. wrote:<BR>&gt;A couple of people have noted that it would be very difficult to<BR>&gt;disentangle all the TV signals being broadcast out into space, but how<BR>&gt;hard would it be to detect that the Sol system was putting out more radio<BR>&gt;energy than it should be?&nbsp; Are our broadcasts just a drop in the bucket,<BR>&gt;or would they make a significact difference?&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Are there even now astronomers on Tau Ceti IV trying to figure out why<BR>&gt;that yellow dwarf a few ly away has been increasing in radio emmissions<BR>&gt;over the last few decades?&nbsp; Has anyone there suggested an industrial<BR>&gt;society?&nbsp; Have they been silenced?&nbsp; Or are they dismissing that out of<BR>&gt;hand and trying to come up with some astrophysical phenomenon to explain<BR>&gt;it... &lt;cue spooky music&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Charles C.<BR><BR>They may also notice that the third planet is putting out a lot of noise at<BR>50 to 60 Hertz.<BR><BR>Les<BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:23:29 +0100<BR>From: Brian Caball &lt;boc@raidtec.ie&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;Wouldn't this violate the law that matter cannot under ordinary<BR>circumstances be created or destroyed?<BR><BR>Under Classical physics (i.e., pre Relativity and Pre Quantum Mechanics)<BR>yes. However, we now know that matter is just a form of energy, so a better<BR>statement would be that energy can't be created or destroyed. The usual<BR>second part to that statement is "But it can be changed from one from to<BR>another". As matter is a form of energy, matter particles can be changed to<BR>"energy" (e.g. photons) and vice versa. Matter can be turned to energy by<BR>annihilation (e.g., the annihilation of matter and antimatter). In the same<BR>way, a photon with enough energy can create a matter/ antimatter pair (e.g.<BR>a positron and an electron).<BR><BR>Now, in quantum mechanics, we see that there is an uncertainty between<BR>Energy and Time, just as there is between Momentum and Position. Therefore,<BR>we can know the energy very precisely, but not the time, or we can know the<BR>time precisely, but not the energy. This is not a problem with our<BR>instruments, but a fundamental way the universe works. <BR><BR>So, if we know the time, say to +/- 1 second, there will be an uncertainty<BR>in energy of +/- (very small number).<BR><BR>Therefore, a particle / antiparticle pair, of energy (very small number),<BR>can be created, so long as they annihilate each other within 1 second (in<BR>our example above). As time decreases, the energy available to create a pair<BR>is increased. Thus you can have very low energy particles (like low<BR>frequency photons) for reasonable amounts of time, or high energy particles<BR>(like electrons, protons, etc) for very short periods of time. At<BR>microscopic scales, the "vacuum" is a writhing froth of particles appearing<BR>out of nowhere and vanishing back again just as quickly as they came. <BR><BR>What we call vacuum here is sort of like "the fabric of space and time".<BR>It's not really "nothing"... in fact without these "virtual particles", none<BR>of the forces would work and it's doubtful if matter or energy could exist! <BR><BR>OB Trav:<BR>One take that I have of the jump bubble is a bubble of our "vacuum" in order<BR>to sustain the matter and energy of the ship. If you got into a space suit<BR>and stuck your hand into jump space, when you pulled it back you would find<BR>it cleanly cut off... as the forces and particles that make up your hand<BR>cannot exist without the vacuum of our space to support them.<BR><BR>- -Brian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:26:15 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Landgrab: Yori ... update<BR><BR>The next piece of the Yori jigsaw is ready: at the bottom of&nbsp; the<BR>Yori main page you'll see a link to the Army.&nbsp; This describes the<BR>organisational structure and equipment of&nbsp; Yori's&nbsp; 100&nbsp; battalion<BR>army including some TL13 vehicles.&nbsp; Hopefully&nbsp; the&nbsp; mil-heads&nbsp; of<BR>this list wont find it all too outrageous.&nbsp; Feedback?<BR><BR>http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol/traveller/yori/yori.html<BR><BR>Meanwhile how are the other landgrabs coming along?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:43:47 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Radio Astronomy <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 10:15 AM 10/25/00 -0400, Charles C. wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;A couple of people have noted that it would be very difficult to<BR>&gt; &gt;disentangle all the TV signals being broadcast out into <BR>&gt; space, but how<BR>&gt; &gt;hard would it be to detect that the Sol system was putting <BR>&gt; out more radio<BR>&gt; &gt;energy than it should be?&nbsp; Are our broadcasts just a drop in <BR>&gt; the bucket,<BR>&gt; &gt;or would they make a significact difference?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Are there even now astronomers on Tau Ceti IV trying to <BR>&gt; figure out why<BR>&gt; &gt;that yellow dwarf a few ly away has been increasing in radio <BR>&gt; emmissions<BR>&gt; &gt;over the last few decades?&nbsp; Has anyone there suggested an industrial<BR>&gt; &gt;society?&nbsp; Have they been silenced?&nbsp; Or are they dismissing <BR>&gt; that out of<BR>&gt; &gt;hand and trying to come up with some astrophysical <BR>&gt; phenomenon to explain<BR>&gt; &gt;it... &lt;cue spooky music&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR><BR><BR>I say we send some NASA guys over there, abuduct a whole bunch of farmers<BR>and submit them to anal probes...see what the Tau Cetian media make out of<BR>it. :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:50:23 -0500<BR>From: Jimmy Simpson &lt;nimrod@santech.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ivanova quotes (was: something else...whatever...)<BR><BR>At 01:02 PM 10/25/2000 -0500, Leslie Bates wrote:<BR>&gt;At 09:49 AM 10/25/00 -0400, Charles C. wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;My favorite Ivanova line was short and sweet.&nbsp; After everyone else in the<BR>&gt; &gt;scene had gone into long detailed explanations about their roles in the<BR>&gt; &gt;upcoming 'big plan', she states simply "I'll be in the car."&nbsp; Cracked me<BR>&gt; &gt;up!&nbsp; Forget which episode it was now...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;War Without End, Part I<BR>This episode also gave me one of my favorite quotes by Sinclair (addressing <BR>Sheriden)<BR>"I think we'd work well together, like<BR>Butch and Sundance,<BR>Lewis and Clark...<BR>Lucy and Ethel"<BR><BR><BR>Jimmy Simpson<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; nimrodd@mail.com<BR><BR>"You can get more with a kind word<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and a 2 x 4,<BR>than you can with just a kind word."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3217<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:51:30 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:50:35 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA10725;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:49:37 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:49:27 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id MAA10680<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:49:27 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:49:27 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010251649.MAA10680@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3217<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3218<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: gearhead fodder<BR>RE: Radio Astronomy <BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>RE: Radio Astronomy <BR>RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>RE: eBooks<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: FYI<BR>Re: Welfare in the 3I<BR>Re: Welfare in the 3I<BR>Cardboard Heros<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>RE: Loren!!!!&nbsp; Your JTAS editorial<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>How to unsubscribe!<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:15:28 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: gearhead fodder<BR><BR>To heck with Traveller, I want one of these right now!!!<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_988000/988265.stm<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cars that run off compressed air.&nbsp; Really... Average speed 80 KPH (50 MPH).<BR>&gt; The fearless band of Travellers are on a TL 7/8 world where these<BR>&gt; lightweight vehicles are the only ones available in cities recovering from<BR>&gt; TL 6/7 pollution.&nbsp; A bit of a pest trying to make a get away, and the light<BR>&gt; frame really doesn't do much to stop incoming rounds...<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:17:20 -0500<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Radio Astronomy <BR><BR>At 05:43 PM 10/25/00 +0100, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Are there even now astronomers on Tau Ceti IV trying to <BR>&gt;&gt; figure out why<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;that yellow dwarf a few ly away has been increasing in radio <BR>&gt;&gt; emmissions<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;over the last few decades?&nbsp; Has anyone there suggested an industrial<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;society?&nbsp; Have they been silenced?&nbsp; Or are they dismissing <BR>&gt;&gt; that out of<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;hand and trying to come up with some astrophysical <BR>&gt;&gt; phenomenon to explain<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;it... &lt;cue spooky music&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I say we send some NASA guys over there, abuduct a whole bunch of farmers<BR>&gt;and submit them to anal probes...see what the Tau Cetian media make out of<BR>&gt;it. :)<BR><BR>What about the cows?<BR><BR>Les<BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:40:02 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard Heroes<BR>&gt; that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR><BR>Very nice. Two questions:<BR><BR>(1) Any chance the GM Screen (which will include some CHs) will be out before<BR>Christmas? (I know, not really in you power, but just curious as to how far down<BR>the line the project has gotten).<BR><BR>(2) What species is the lizard guy? IIRC, the Ithklur had shorter tails.<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:37:10 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Radio Astronomy <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 05:43 PM 10/25/00 +0100, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Are there even now astronomers on Tau Ceti IV trying to <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; figure out why<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;that yellow dwarf a few ly away has been increasing in radio <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; emmissions<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;over the last few decades?&nbsp; Has anyone there suggested an <BR>&gt; industrial<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;society?&nbsp; Have they been silenced?&nbsp; Or are they dismissing <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; that out of<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;hand and trying to come up with some astrophysical <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; phenomenon to explain<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;it... &lt;cue spooky music&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I say we send some NASA guys over there, abuduct a whole <BR>&gt; bunch of farmers<BR>&gt; &gt;and submit them to anal probes...see what the Tau Cetian <BR>&gt; media make out of<BR>&gt; &gt;it. :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What about the cows?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Cows would represent a startling case of parallel evolution, or intervention<BR>by Ancients. Unless the cows ARE the Ancients... :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:41:32 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Wouldn't this violate the law that matter cannot under ordinary<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; circumstances be created or destroyed?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;As I understand it ...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;(a) You mean "energy" not "matter".<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I was talking about virtual particles. Aren't they matter?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I think so.&nbsp; But *matter* can be destroyed ... this is where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt;energy of an atom bomb, or the sun comes from: the conversion&nbsp; of<BR>&gt;matter into energy.&nbsp; Matter/antimatter reactions&nbsp; do&nbsp; this,&nbsp; too.<BR>&gt;But you can think of matter as 'frozen'&nbsp; energy&nbsp; ...&nbsp; the&nbsp; energy<BR>&gt;that went into making the matter is returned&nbsp; to&nbsp; you&nbsp; when&nbsp; that<BR>&gt;matter is destroyed.&nbsp; So under normal circumstances *energy*&nbsp; can<BR>&gt;neither be created nor destroyed, merely changed from one form to<BR>&gt;another (including matter).<BR><BR>First, let us establish that matter and energy are inextricably linked. I <BR>would go so far as to say that they are the same stuff (reality) in <BR>different forms. Second, we shall assume that vacuum does have an infinite <BR>amount of energy. Now we may proceed with the rebuttle.<BR><BR>Matter *cannot under any ordinary circumstances (and I believe that there <BR>are no unordinary circumstances as far as the nature of the universe goes)&nbsp; <BR>be either created or destroyed*. It can only be transformed into energy. <BR>Likewise, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed into <BR>matter. Of course, the transformation is inefficient, as stated in the <BR>Second Law of Thermodynamics.<BR><BR>The atom bomb is simply a way of converting matter into massive amounts of <BR>energy. Matter is not destroyed, merely transformed. And, since the sun is a <BR>gigantic atomic furnace, the same thing happens in a star.<BR><BR>The mutual annihilation of matter and antimatter results in a HUGE amount of <BR>energy. IMO, this is just a more efficient transformation. (Question: I know <BR>that antimatter is real, but does it _really_ destroy matter in the real <BR>world?)<BR><BR>And, since a vacuum has an infinite amount of energy, matter can appear <BR>there.<BR><BR>If I'm wrong, please tell me.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #14<BR><BR>Harrison was contemplating the effects of jumpspace on the body of an <BR>annoying noble when he made the discovery. Baron Walk had been especially <BR>bothersome that day, so Harrison had locked himself in the cargo bay to be <BR>alone for a while. He had sat down on one the crates of machine tools.<BR><BR>He noticed that the crate was cold. Too cold. Colder than any of the other <BR>cargos. Curious, he tried to open it. It was locked. Now he was really <BR>suspicious.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:41:06 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>At 10:18 -0400 25/10/00, Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Charles C wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Now, admittedly this would be a kind of grim universe, with eventual doom<BR>&gt; &gt; virtually certain, but some people are into that kind of thing.&nbsp; And of<BR>&gt; &gt; course, the PCs could find some ancient technomagical doohickey to undo<BR>&gt; &gt; the disaster...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Can you say "Well World"? :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Just get someone to reboot the universe...<BR><BR>Alternatively, you could use _Stormbringer_ and the Eternal Champion <BR>to engender a reboot...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:33:44 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: eBooks<BR><BR>At 22:01 -0400 24/10/00, "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;This sort of thing - though not this particular site - have been a bit<BR>&gt;of a hot topic on rec.arts.sciencefiction recently. Are you sure that<BR>&gt;you bought a legitimate copy and that Carol Cherryh is getting her<BR>&gt;copyright protected or have you bought a pirate copy?<BR><BR>Carolyn.<BR><BR>It's the online wing of Tor Books. If it's a pirate site it's doing a <BR>good job of looking very legitimate.<BR><BR>If I'd bought a pirate copy of my favourite author's book I wouldn't <BR>be posting to the TML on it.<BR><BR>And their method of copyright protection is excellent - you get your <BR>credit card number as the decryption password. If you pass it on it <BR>can only be viewed in their reader, and you need to tell the person <BR>you pass it to your CC number.<BR><BR>Dom (kind of annoyed at the suggestion of piracy.)<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Truth is a matter of the imagination."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ursula LeGuin -&nbsp; 'The Left Hand of Darkness'<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:06:13 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; I'm sure others will have already suggested this, but 'The Long<BR>&gt; Night' was a 17 century period where there was no *Imperium* that<BR>&gt; ruled charted space.&nbsp; I don't imagine it as being devoid of<BR>&gt; interstellar trade or government, just no Imperium.&nbsp; One of the<BR>&gt; reasons I think TLN would be a great period to game in is that I see<BR>&gt; it as chock full of competing governments, companies and trade<BR>&gt; groups with power shifting back and forth and back again.&nbsp; I see it<BR>&gt; as a dynamic time, not like the static period of the 1100 3I.<BR><BR>I went reading through Milieu 0 last night (the only canon material that<BR>really deals with this in detail.) A few things jumped out at me:<BR><BR>1) There were indeed many nascent interstellar polities that arose and<BR>fell during the Long Night; but none of them rose to the size or<BR>influence of the 3I.<BR><BR>2) The antecedents of the 3I were started long before 0. The Sylean<BR>Federation was started in -675. The end of the long night collapse<BR>wasn't over at last until about -800 or so, so the dark part of the<BR>night was only a few hundred years.<BR><BR>3) In the Zhunasto School of Contact section there was a _very_<BR>important clue, that no one has mentioned. These were worlds that had<BR>been ruled over by the first and second Imperia for thousands of years.<BR>The School rules say to remove the medium of currency; precious metals,<BR>gems, etc, via predatory trading, in order to impose the Imperial<BR>currency more easily. They say that because of the millenia of high tech<BR>occupation of the worlds, most convertible precious and semi-precious<BR>metals and stones should be in circulation, not in the ground.<BR><BR>This would also be true, no doubt, of other accessible raw materials.<BR><BR>In fact, were enough of the infrastructure knocked out, whether by<BR>conflict, or simply wearing out, these places would be stranded at tech<BR>levels too low to bootstrap themselves back up. If you can't easily mine<BR>copper, iron, aluminum, or petrochemicals, and those high tech chip fabs<BR>have broken down, with no replacement parts and no way to _make_ the<BR>replacement parts, you're basically hosed, big time. You're using those<BR>computers for doorstops and buckets, scratching out a living in depleted<BR>soils with whatever odd mutants you have around descended from the few<BR>draft animals that were around as curiosities and pets (the ones that<BR>weren't just eaten when things got bad) some hundreds of years ago.<BR><BR>Mad Max time, big time.<BR><BR>If Vilani Patent law and trade policies meant that the tools for Eneri's<BR>Widget Factory were made three parsecs over at Shuugi's Widget Tool<BR>Factory, when transport goes away Eneri can't make widgets anymore.<BR><BR>Imagine, if you would, the chaos that would ensue in today's economy of<BR>something were to seriously disrupt worldwide transportation for a long<BR>time?<BR><BR>And no Leonard, you can't mine the landfills, because they went through<BR>that stage at some point in the First Imperium thousands of years<BR>ago...there are no more landfills, or if there is one, it's not on the<BR>planet (shades of the Moon from Futurama ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:09 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: FYI<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;81.1ecfb70.272831d1@aol.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I went to have a look too.... while you might let your webmaster <BR>telecommute, Crewe in England is probably a bit far :-)<BR><BR>Anyway, webmeistering is my DAY job (South Cheshire College, if you <BR>want to know)... the rest of the time I write!<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:09 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Welfare in the 3I<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;F57fcjcMzfoV1qdiixj00000334@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I tend to regard it as a matter for the planetary government. I think <BR>we've agreed that it is the planetary government which decides how to <BR>raise funding via taxation, and from that any dues to the 3I are paid.<BR><BR>So... the nature of the welfare system is probably linked to the <BR>government type for that planet. Some will rely on acts of charity, some <BR>will go to the other extreme. I even have one planet where the State gives <BR>everybody 10Cr a day, but taxes everything you earn and everything you <BR>spend. <BR><BR>It can be quite fun... and fun for the characters too, figuring out how <BR>(or if) they can get something for nothing, survive if they are low on <BR>funds or avoid being charged large sums of money for which they are <BR>unlikely to see any return especially as they are about to leave planet <BR>:-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:25:42 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Welfare in the 3I<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; OK, we have covered all of the worlds that are part of the 3I, but what<BR>about the worlds that the 3I administrates directly?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:19:45 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Cardboard Heros<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt;We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard Heroes<BR>&gt;that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt;http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR><BR>One of these looks a lot like the nasty evil Governor from Cadillacs &amp; <BR>Dinosaurs....<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued<BR>other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and<BR>rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:25:48 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>&gt; The atom bomb is simply a way of converting matter into massive amounts of<BR>&gt; energy. Matter is not destroyed, merely transformed. And, since the sun is<BR>a<BR>&gt; gigantic atomic furnace, the same thing happens in a star.<BR><BR>Quite. The energy released from fusion (the process that makes the sun<BR>shine) comes from the difference in mass between two hydrogen atoms and one<BR>helium atom.<BR><BR>&gt; The mutual annihilation of matter and antimatter results in a HUGE amount<BR>of<BR>&gt; energy. IMO, this is just a more efficient transformation. (Question: I<BR>know<BR>&gt; that antimatter is real, but does it _really_ destroy matter in the real<BR>&gt; world?)<BR><BR>Yes. Completely. The energy released is equal to the mass of the<BR>matter/antimatter pairs of particles, multiplied by the speed of light<BR>squared. You may recognize this as E=mc^2.<BR><BR>In the case of fusion, m is (mass of 2*hydrogen)-(mass of 1*helium), the<BR>equation for the amount of energy is the same.<BR><BR>&gt; And, since a vacuum has an infinite amount of energy, matter can appear<BR>&gt; there.<BR><BR>I don't know about that, really. I know about virtual particle pairs, but<BR>the energy for those is borrowed from the future by means of quantum...<BR>ummm, whatsitsnameinenglish. Darn. Heisenbergs theorem of... Ack! Gah!<BR>Somebody with enligsh as native language and a physics major, please fill me<BR>in. Well, anyways, I haven't heard about matter appearing here and there.<BR>Vacuum exists everywhere, you know. What didi you think was in between the<BR>atoms and molecules in air, for example?<BR><BR>&gt; If I'm wrong, please tell me.<BR><BR>Not too far off the mark, methinks. Except the last part, possibly.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:28:07<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren!!!!&nbsp; Your JTAS editorial<BR><BR>At 07:41 PM 10/25/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;You deviant cross-species penguin pervert, let the poor kiwi go !<BR><BR>"Deviant cross-species penguin pervert"&nbsp; Time to order new business cards.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>limbs!"&nbsp; - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:32:20<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>At 08:50 AM 10/25/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard Heroes<BR>&gt;that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR><BR>Fantastic!&nbsp; I applaud the lack of obvious weaponry.<BR><BR>I want to play the bartender.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:44:57 -0700<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>&gt; At 08:50 AM 10/25/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard<BR>Heroes<BR>&gt; &gt;that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Fantastic!&nbsp; I applaud the lack of obvious weaponry.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I want to play the bartender.<BR><BR>What do you mean, lack of obvious weaponry.&nbsp; For all we know, that is Vargr<BR>beer in those mugs-a well known biological warfare agent.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>BTW, in 2 separate scifi novels (by different authors), I have found<BR>references to Vegan cigars.&nbsp; How long have the Vegans been producing top<BR>notch smokables?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:53:33 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Fantastic!&nbsp; I applaud the lack of obvious weaponry.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I want to play the bartender.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Why?&nbsp; So you can dress in women's clothing &amp; hang around in bars?&nbsp; (Just<BR>like a lumberjack?)* &lt;weg&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>*This statement is meant as humor &amp; not a slight against TVs, people who<BR>hang out in bars, or lumberjacks.&nbsp; I am just reffing the Lumberjack Song of<BR>Monty Python.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:54:36 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;BTW, in 2 separate scifi novels (by different authors), I have found<BR>&gt;references to Vegan cigars.&nbsp; How long have the Vegans been producing top<BR>&gt;notch smokables?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; For as long as men would walk a mile for a camel?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:25:30 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>I saw a Library Data entry on an Imperial physicist, Asak Moroyanga, who<BR>hadsome ideas about inherent time-travel related aspects of J-drive.<BR>Thought it might be useful info.&nbsp; The guy disappeared IIRC, just like the<BR>J-sickness dude.&nbsp; I think its a conspiracy.<BR><BR>- -Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:32:58 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Well, as one of the ten people that paid $8.50 to see the movie in the<BR>theater I thought I would throw in my .02C in on this movie. There were a<BR>number of enjoyable scenes and the special effects in places were excellent.<BR>As far as following the book, they tried WAY too hard to get all the<BR>information into a 2 hour movie from a paper back that was 1066 pages long.<BR>Couldn't be done without major cuts and hacks. Unfortunately they chose to<BR>"time compress" years into weeks and it came across as the reviewer stated<BR>from the web site below "Lame"! It is worth the rental fee but NOT the<BR>theater fee. I encourage anyone to rent it when it comes out on video. It<BR>ain't that bad, I actually enjoyed it more than my *first* viewing of<BR>Starship Troopers, which has grown on me after watching it about five times<BR>on ShowTime. My wife had never read the book and she actually enjoyed the<BR>movie. The reviewer said that he didn't give it a zero because there was one<BR>scene where a girl stuck her tongue out about a foot to tease the J.<BR>Travolta character, what he didn't say was that the girl was in fact Kelly<BR>Preston, J.T.'s wife....BTW, I never felt one urge to run out and join the<BR>Church of Scientology after watching the movie, sorry to disappoint the<BR>*true* believers.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 8:19 AM<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Awwww, come on people. There never was _anyone_ to match Ed Wood<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; (thank the good Lord) and at least "Plan 9 From Outer<BR>&gt; &gt; Space" deserves<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; to be saved. Otherwise, how will they know how bad films could get?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; From what I heard, "Battlefield: Earth" makes Plan 9 look *good*!<BR>&gt; http://www.brunching.com/selfmade/selfmade-battlefieldearth.html<BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:46:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>Kelly St.Clair writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;And any character who has the power of mind-control, Mule-style psychic <BR>&gt;surgery, or whatever is going to be well-advised to be VERY subtle with it <BR>&gt;and not abuse the power.&nbsp; Because if they start leaving clues to their <BR>&gt;existence, eventually one of two things is going to happen based on their <BR>&gt;apparent level of threat:<BR>&gt;(1)&nbsp; They'll be captured and spirited away, never to be heard from again, <BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;(2)&nbsp; More likely, their remarkable brain will be spattered all over a wall <BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;Extreme?&nbsp; To deal with someone who can rape your mind, change who you ARE, <BR>&gt;and make you glad he did?&nbsp; No such thing, in a post Psionics-Suppressions 3I.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This is true.&nbsp; Such a person might be feared even in the Zhodani<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; consulate.&nbsp; Of course, it may be difficult to spot these people<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; even if you are looking for them.&nbsp; IMTU they are rare in the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; extreme, requiring someone with a Mental Domination talent<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and a Psi of 15 (only possible IMTU for humans trained up since<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; birth and getting regular psionic training).<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:55:02 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>Time travel.&nbsp; That would explain that Imperial Cruiser which jumped<BR>near the Abyss Rift, and arrived one week later in its destination<BR>system looking like it had aged 300,000 years.<BR><BR>- --- Dan Lane &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; I saw a Library Data entry on an Imperial physicist, Asak Moroyanga,<BR>&gt; who<BR>&gt; hadsome ideas about inherent time-travel related aspects of J-drive.<BR>&gt; Thought it might be useful info.&nbsp; The guy disappeared IIRC, just like<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; J-sickness dude.&nbsp; I think its a conspiracy.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -Dan<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:00:53 +0200<BR>From: "Pedro Lopez" &lt;lopez@mailme.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: How to unsubscribe!<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C03ECF.0B468FE0<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>Hi people!<BR><BR>I know its annoying...but could any of you explain me how to =<BR>unsubscribe?<BR><BR>By the way. I think this list rule, but I dont have time for stuff like =<BR>this right now.=20<BR><BR>Have fun<BR><BR>Lopez<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C03ECF.0B468FE0<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =<BR>http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Hi people!</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>I know its annoying...but could any of =<BR>you explain=20<BR>me how to unsubscribe?</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>By the way. I think this list rule, but =<BR>I dont have=20<BR>time for stuff like this right now. </FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Have fun</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Lopez</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C03ECF.0B468FE0--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3218<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (rly-zd04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.228]) by air-zd04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:07:21 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:06:04 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA27079;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:04:55 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:04:19 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA26805<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:04:19 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:04:19 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010252004.QAA26805@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3218<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3219<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>Re: How to unsubscribe!<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: Welfare in the 3I<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3218<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:17:16 +0100<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>The possibility of time travel through misjump exists IMTU.&nbsp; If a vessel is<BR>destroyed by a misjump there is a chance that the vessel has done 1 of 2<BR>things, Jumped d6xd00 + 100 parsecs in a random direction or it has time<BR>travelled.&nbsp; GM's decision when it has travelled to.&nbsp; Fortunately this hasn't<BR>happened yet in any of my games as it would give me a hall of a lot of work<BR>to complete before the next session.<BR><BR>&gt;If you can twist the jump fields and energies enough, then that might<BR>&gt;be enough to send you back in time.<BR>&gt;It will probably need a *huge* amount of energy (anti-matter power<BR>&gt;plant?), or a fixed site (didn't the ancients develop portal<BR>&gt;technology?) as the power-plant might be too big to move.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On the other hand this would be one hell of a misjump to throw at your<BR>&gt;players?<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:33:59 -0700<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: How to unsubscribe!<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C03E88.3AFAE750<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>sendma email to majordomo@ient.com with 'unsubscribe traveller' in the =<BR>body of the message.<BR>&nbsp; ----- Original Message -----=20<BR>&nbsp; From: Pedro Lopez=20<BR>&nbsp; To: traveller@lists.ient.com=20<BR>&nbsp; Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 1:00 PM<BR>&nbsp; Subject: How to unsubscribe!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; Hi people!<BR><BR>&nbsp; I know its annoying...but could any of you explain me how to =<BR>unsubscribe?<BR><BR>&nbsp; By the way. I think this list rule, but I dont have time for stuff =<BR>like this right now.=20<BR><BR>&nbsp; Have fun<BR><BR>&nbsp; Lopez<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C03E88.3AFAE750<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =<BR>charset=3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>sendma email to &lt;A=20<BR>href=3D"mailto:majordomo@ient.com"&gt;majordomo@ient.com</A> with =<BR>'unsubscribe=20<BR>traveller' in the body of the message.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20<BR>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =<BR>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV=20<BR>&nbsp; style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =<BR>black"&gt;<B>From:</B>=20<BR>&nbsp; <A href='http://3d"mailto:lopez@mailme.dk"/' title='http://3d"mailto:lopez@mailme.dk"/'>Pedro =<BR>Lopez</A> &lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>To:</B> <A ="<BR">title=3Dtraveller@lists.ient.com=20<BR>href=3D"mailto:traveller@lists.ient.com"&gt;traveller@lists.ient.com</A> =<BR>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 25, =<BR>2000 1:00=20<BR>&nbsp; PM&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>Subject:</B> How to =<BR>unsubscribe!&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Hi people!</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>I know its annoying...but could any =<BR>of you=20<BR>&nbsp; explain me how to unsubscribe?</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>By the way. I think this list rule, =<BR>but I dont=20<BR>&nbsp; have time for stuff like this right now. </FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Have fun</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial ="<BR">size=3D2&gt;Lopez</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C03E88.3AFAE750--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:41:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:59:21 +0100<BR>&gt; From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I think so.&nbsp; But *matter* can be destroyed ... this is where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; energy of an atom bomb, or the sun comes from: the conversion&nbsp; of<BR>&gt; matter into energy.&nbsp; Matter/antimatter reactions&nbsp; do&nbsp; this,&nbsp; too.<BR>&gt; But you can think of matter as 'frozen'&nbsp; energy&nbsp; ...&nbsp; the&nbsp; energy<BR>&gt; that went into making the matter is returned&nbsp; to&nbsp; you&nbsp; when&nbsp; that<BR>&gt; matter is destroyed.&nbsp; So under normal circumstances *energy*&nbsp; can<BR>&gt; neither be created nor destroyed, merely changed from one form to<BR>&gt; another (including matter).<BR><BR>That's exactly right.&nbsp; Matter is just a particular form of energy, or<BR>rather matter and energy are manifestations of the same underlying<BR>phenomenon.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:48:09 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:23:29 +0100<BR>&gt; From: Brian Caball &lt;boc@raidtec.ie&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Therefore, a particle / antiparticle pair, of energy (very small<BR>&gt; number), can be created, so long as they annihilate each other within 1<BR>&gt; second (in our example above). As time decreases, the energy available<BR>&gt; to create a pair is increased. Thus you can have very low energy<BR>&gt; particles (like low frequency photons) for reasonable amounts of time,<BR>&gt; or high energy particles (like electrons, protons, etc) for very short<BR>&gt; periods of time. At microscopic scales, the "vacuum" is a writhing froth<BR>&gt; of particles appearing out of nowhere and vanishing back again just as<BR>&gt; quickly as they came.<BR><BR>And indeed, one of the as yet not quite resolved problems of quantum<BR>mechanics is that as the time interval approaches zero, the energy<BR>variations reach macroscopic scales, eventually approaching infinity at<BR>the limit.&nbsp; We should be experiencing massive energy variations every tiny<BR>fraction of a nanosecond, but we're not.&nbsp; In many ways, this parallels the<BR>problem of blackbody radiation in a cavity from the late 19th century;<BR>straightforward calculations showed that the energy density surrounding<BR>any object with a positive temperature should be infinite.<BR><BR>In the latter case, quantum theory resolved the problem.&nbsp; In the former,<BR>string theory *may* do the same.&nbsp; Stay tuned.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:58:46 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:46:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Kelly St.Clair writes:<BR>&gt;&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;And any character who has the power of mind-control, Mule-style psychic<BR>&gt; &gt;surgery, or whatever is going to be well-advised to be VERY subtle with <BR>&gt;it<BR>&gt; &gt;and not abuse the power.&nbsp; Because if they start leaving clues to their<BR>&gt; &gt;existence, eventually one of two things is going to happen based on their<BR>&gt; &gt;apparent level of threat:<BR>&gt; &gt;(1)&nbsp; They'll be captured and spirited away, never to be heard from again,<BR>&gt;&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;(2)&nbsp; More likely, their remarkable brain will be spattered all over a <BR>&gt;wall<BR>&gt;&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Extreme?&nbsp; To deal with someone who can rape your mind, change who you <BR>&gt;ARE,<BR>&gt; &gt;and make you glad he did?&nbsp; No such thing, in a post Psionics-Suppressions <BR>&gt;3I.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This is true.&nbsp; Such a person might be feared even in the Zhodani<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; consulate.&nbsp; Of course, it may be difficult to spot these people<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; even if you are looking for them.&nbsp; IMTU they are rare in the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; extreme, requiring someone with a Mental Domination talent<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; and a Psi of 15 (only possible IMTU for humans trained up since<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; birth and getting regular psionic training).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Peez<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>What if the character were to employ an Ancient artifact that would boost <BR>their Psi? (These would, of course, be even rarer.)<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #15<BR><BR>"So what if the crates are colder than the others?" Captain Rokodo said. <BR>Harrison had informed him of his suspicion and was now talking over the <BR>comm.<BR><BR>"Why would machine tools need to be chilled?" Harrison replied, "There's <BR>_got_ to be something more to this than the contractor informed us of. We've <BR>got to find a way to open those crates up!"<BR><BR>"No," Rokodo said, "I don't care what you think. There's just no justified <BR>reason to tamper with the cargo. Understood?"<BR><BR>"Yes, sir," Harrison sighed. He turned the comm off and started formulating <BR>a plan. He had to find out what was in those crates. With or without <BR>Rokodo's permission.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:05:58 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Welfare in the 3I<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; OK, we have covered all of the worlds that are part of the 3I, but what<BR>&gt; about the worlds that the 3I administrates directly?<BR><BR>I would tend to think that the only such worlds would be treated more or<BR>less like corporate worlds, ie: employees only. <BR><BR>These would be prison worlds, naval depots, scout bases, etc. The<BR>employment contract would surely cover something like passage back to<BR>your home world, and likely housing and other allowances for dependents,<BR>so there would be no need for welfare.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:11:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:41:32 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The mutual annihilation of matter and antimatter results in a HUGE<BR>&gt; amount of energy. IMO, this is just a more efficient transformation.<BR>&gt; (Question: I know that antimatter is real, but does it _really_ destroy<BR>&gt; matter in the real world?) <BR><BR>Yep, sure does.&nbsp; We've watched it happen in particle accelerator<BR>experiments, and detected the characteristic photons from positron-<BR>electron annihilation from near our own galaxy's core.<BR><BR>As in the case of fissionable materials, your biggest problem in creating<BR>a controlled, high-yield M/AM explosion is holding the reacting components<BR>together after the first tiny fraction has annihilated, which will tend to<BR>throw the unreacted portion far, far away in all directions, very fast. <BR><BR>The other problem is storing the AM, since it will annihilate on contact<BR>with any material container.&nbsp; Handwaves regarding magnetic (or in SF,<BR>gravitic) containment are required.<BR><BR>Note that we can already store positrons in a cyclotron, but at huge cost<BR>in equipment and facility size, for a vanishingly small mass of<BR>antimatter. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:16:55 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3218<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; What about the cows?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cows would represent a startling case of parallel evolution, or intervention<BR>&gt; by Ancients. Unless the cows ARE the Ancients... :)<BR><BR>That's been done. The computer game Star Control 3. The ancients (called the<BR>Precursors in the Star Control universe) genetically modified themselves into<BR>nonsentient herbivores to escape a galactic invasion of beings that ate the <BR>minds of sentients. <BR><BR>I think they left machines/instructions for re-Uplifting themselves, in the <BR>hopes that someone else would figure out how to beat the mind-eaters and <BR>then restore the Precursors. Something like that.<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:19:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:25:48 +0200<BR>&gt; From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Quite. The energy released from fusion (the process that makes the sun<BR>&gt; shine) comes from the difference in mass between two hydrogen atoms and<BR>&gt; one helium atom. <BR><BR>For p-p fusion (the predominant type in main sequence stars), it's<BR>actually four hydrogen-1 nuclei each consisting of<BR>a single proton, which fuse (in several steps) into one helium-4 nucleus,<BR>consisting of two protons and two neutrons.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:49:41 EDT<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>&gt;From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:11:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>&gt;As in the case of fissionable materials, your biggest problem in creating a <BR>&gt;controlled, high-yield M/AM explosion is holding the reacting components <BR>&gt;together after the first tiny fraction has annihilated, which will tend to <BR>&gt;throw the unreacted portion far, far away in all directions, very fast.<BR><BR>If you're looking to push a spaceship around, you could do it by not mixing <BR>matter and anti-matter in a 1:1 ratio. Fission turns only a fraction of one <BR>percent of the fissile material's mass into energy, IIRC, and fusion is only <BR>somewhat better.<BR><BR>So use water as your matter in a ratio of, say, 50:1 with your antimatter. <BR>You'd still have a very efficient reaction which -- instead of flying off <BR>all over the place -- superheats the remaining water (though I suppose it <BR>wouldn't *be* water any more) into a nifty exhaust for a good old-fashioned <BR>reaction drive.<BR><BR>Could the same reaction be used for power generation? I'm guessing not at a <BR>small scale. But I keep picturing a really, really high tech steam train. <BR>("Why do you call her the 'Rocket', Mr. Stephenson?")<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:31:22 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Hmmm, Battlefield Earth eh? Did you know that John Travolta thinks it<BR>has become a "cult hit" and is trying to raise funds for a sequel? Do<BR>you think we should organise a collection to hire a hit man, just to<BR>stop it?<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Mark Urbin<BR>&gt; Sent: 25 October 2000 03:39<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Awwww, come on people. There never was _anyone_ to match Ed Wood<BR>&gt; &gt;(thank the good Lord) and at least "Plan 9 From Outer<BR>&gt; Space" deserves<BR>&gt; &gt;to be saved. Otherwise, how will they know how bad films could get?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Better Plan 9 than Battlefield:Earth...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; ---------------<BR>&gt; urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>&gt; A well-educated electorate being necessary to the<BR>&gt; prosperity of a free<BR>&gt; state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be<BR>&gt; infringed.&nbsp; -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; ---------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:34:33 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:44 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; At 08:50 AM 10/25/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard<BR>&gt; Heroes<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Fantastic!&nbsp; I applaud the lack of obvious weaponry.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I want to play the bartender.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What do you mean, lack of obvious weaponry.&nbsp; For all we know, that is<BR>Vargr<BR>&gt; beer in those mugs-a well known biological warfare agent.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tod<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW, in 2 separate scifi novels (by different authors), I have found<BR>&gt; references to Vegan cigars.&nbsp; How long have the Vegans been producing<BR>top<BR>&gt; notch smokables?<BR><BR>Well, perhaps they meant that they didn't contain animal products...<BR><BR>Hmmm, I wonder if the sweat from Cuban women's thighs counts as an<BR>animal product...<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:05:55 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; And indeed, one of the as yet not quite resolved problems of quantum<BR>&gt; mechanics is that as the time interval approaches zero, the energy<BR>&gt; variations reach macroscopic scales, eventually approaching infinity at<BR>&gt; the limit.&nbsp; We should be experiencing massive energy variations every tiny<BR>&gt; fraction of a nanosecond, but we're not.&nbsp; In many ways, this parallels the<BR>&gt; problem of blackbody radiation in a cavity from the late 19th century;<BR>&gt; straightforward calculations showed that the energy density surrounding<BR>&gt; any object with a positive temperature should be infinite.<BR><BR>My take on this is as follows. All of this discussion of virtual particles<BR>comes from a computational technique you use in quantum mechanics called<BR>perturbation theory. Perturbation theory is only an approximation to the<BR>real underlying quantum-mechanical process, so there is really no claim that<BR>the virtual states really exist; they are really only an approximation to<BR>the real thing.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:20:56 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Mark Preston wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hmmm, Battlefield Earth eh? Did you know that John Travolta thinks it<BR>&gt; has become a "cult hit" and is trying to raise funds for a sequel? Do<BR>&gt; you think we should organise a collection to hire a hit man, just to<BR>&gt; stop it?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Well, he's half right...they ARE a cult...<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:26:41 EDT<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>&gt;Perturbation theory is only an approximation to the real underlying <BR>&gt;quantum-mechanical process, so there is really no claim that the virtual <BR>&gt;states really exist; they are really only an approximation to<BR>&gt;the real thing.<BR><BR>But they were a good enough approximation to lead to Stephen Hawking's <BR>famous notion that black holes evaporate over time. It's my understanding <BR>that black holes go away because a virtual particle pair appears close <BR>enough to the event horizon for one particle to be eaten while the other to <BR>wanders away. Since the energy needed to create the one that got away has to <BR>come from somewhere, it gets siphoned off of the hole.<BR><BR>So either it's a pretty good approximation, or else (as has just occurred to <BR>me) no-one's really demonstrated that black holes really do evaporate. I <BR>can't recall such a demonstration off the top of my head.<BR><BR>Not arguing. Asking.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:41:58 EDT<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>For the Nov. 18 Striker meet, here is the German WWI steel shoebox on a Holt<BR>tractor chassis, the A7V!<BR><BR>Crewed by an entire section, with better armor than most WWI tanks, it has <BR>horrible cross country performance.&nbsp; Historically, had mechanical reliability<BR>problems.&nbsp; For each A7V in the starting line-up of a player roll 1D.&nbsp; If a 1<BR>or 2 is rolled, roll another 1D.&nbsp; On a 1-3 vehicle breaks down badly before<BR>being able to reach assembly point; remove from board.&nbsp; On a 4-6 vehicle <BR>suffers mobility problems; road speed 3 kph/2.5 cm -- leave it on the board.<BR>Most such A7Vs were ordered to retire, rather than engage the enemy.<BR><BR>I decided to give the front &amp; rear hull surfaces a moderate slope (they are<BR>angled back slightly to the top, and also angle back at the sides a bit).<BR>Turret dimensions &amp; track width estimated from photographs.<BR><BR>The vehicle's "turret" is a fixed superstructure mounted on the central <BR>chassis roof, which gives the commander and driver a high vantage point --<BR>alas, it also lets the hull block the first c. 9 meters of ground in front of<BR>the vehicle from the view of the driver.&nbsp; A7Vs often drove into shell <BR>craters because of this, and frequently tipped over when they did so.<BR><BR>I had to squeeze the crew in with a shoehorn.&nbsp; Fuel consumption much too<BR>high.&nbsp; But the weight came out about right.&nbsp; Ground pressure should be<BR>higher, as the tracks of the real vehicle aren't full length (required by<BR>Striker).&nbsp; Speed is a bit high (real vehicle: close to 12 kph).&nbsp; Crew <BR>probably needs more room (for signaler to move from command platform to<BR>gunners).&nbsp; It didn't come out too bad, though.<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR><BR>A7V Sturmpanzer&nbsp; TL-5<BR><BR>This vehicle has a crew of 18 (commander, driver, signaler, mechanic, 7<BR>gunners, 7 loaders).&nbsp; It mounts a 5.5 cm low velocity gun in a fixed mount<BR>in the hull front, with direct fire control.&nbsp; It also mounts 6 MMGs in fixed<BR>mounts, 2 in each hull side &amp; rear.&nbsp; Length: 8 m.&nbsp; Width: 3.175 m.&nbsp; Height:<BR>2.27 m. (+ 1.03 m for "turret").&nbsp; Total volume: 50.178 m^3.&nbsp; Weight: 28.34<BR>tons.&nbsp; A floater!&nbsp; Cost: Cr 69,189.&nbsp; Cost &amp; weight include full load of<BR>ammunition.<BR><BR>Movement:&nbsp; Road speed: 15 kph/12.5 cm.&nbsp; Cross-country: 4.5 kph/3.75 cm<BR>Endurance: 0.56 hours.&nbsp; Ground pressure 3.55 tons / m ^2.<BR><BR>Movement effects on fire: Move up to 1/2: -4 FFP, no fire EFP.&nbsp; Move over<BR>1/2: no fire. <BR><BR>Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Hull front: 14.&nbsp; Hull Rear: 9.&nbsp; Turret front, sides,<BR>&amp; rear: 7.&nbsp; Hull sides: 6.&nbsp; Deck: 2.&nbsp; Belly: 1.<BR><BR>Target size DMs: +3 low.&nbsp; +1 high.<BR><BR>Equipment: none.<BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>The low velocity 5.5 cm gun may engage 1 target.&nbsp; It has direct fire control<BR>&amp; a signature of +2.&nbsp; 360 rounds are carried (108 KEAP, 252 HE).<BR><BR>Ammo&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Effective&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR><BR>KEAP&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20(14)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 60(12)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 150(10)<BR>HE&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20(8/1/1)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 60(8/1/1)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 150(8/1/1)<BR><BR>The medium machineguns may engage 8 targets.&nbsp; They have a signature of +2<BR>and sufficient ammo for 31 phases of fire, each.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Effective&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR><BR>MMG&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 40(3)+4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 75(2)+3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 120(2)+1<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR>Design details:<BR><BR>Hull: 8 m long, 3.175 m wide, 2.27 m high.&nbsp; Hull volume = 57.658 m^3<BR><BR>Suspension: Tracked <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 8m long by 1m wide.&nbsp; Weight: 8 tons.&nbsp; Volume: 8 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 20,000.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Remaining volume: 49.658 m^3 <BR><BR>Configuration: Moderate front &amp; rear, vertical sides.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available volume = 39.726 m^3<BR><BR>Turret: 1.25 m long, 3.175 m wide, 1.03 m high.&nbsp; Turret volume = 4.088 m^3<BR>Configuration: moderate front, sides, &amp; rear.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available turret volume 2.452 m^3<BR><BR>Hull Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Volume = 1.369 m^3&nbsp; Weight = 10.952 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cost = Cr 2191&nbsp; Remaining volume = 38.357 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 3cm thick (AV 14), 0.217 m^3<BR>Sides = 2cm thick (AV 6), 0.727 m^3.<BR>Rear = 2cm thick (AV 9), 0.145 m^3 <BR>Deck = 0.75cm thick (AV 2), 0.191 m^3.<BR>Belly = 0.35cm thick (AV 1), 0.089 m^3.<BR><BR>Turret Armor: Crystaliron&nbsp; Volume = 0.139 m^3.&nbsp; Weight = 1.112 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cost = Cr 223&nbsp; Remaining Volume = 2.313 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 1.5cm thick (AV 7), 0.05 m^3.<BR>Sides = 1.5cm thick (AV 7), 0.039 m^3.<BR>Rear = 1.5cm thick (AV 7), 0.05 m^3.<BR><BR>* = in turret<BR><BR>Power Plant: Internal combustion, 1 m^3.&nbsp; Output 0.15 MW.&nbsp; 1 ton.&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cr 1000. <BR><BR>Transmission: 0.75 m^3.&nbsp; 0.75 tons.&nbsp; Cr 750.<BR><BR>Fuel: 500 liters of fuel for .56 hour endurance: 0.5 m^3, 0.5 tons <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cr 125&nbsp; Power Plant consumes 900 liters per hour.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fuel consumption is too high in Striker.&nbsp; Real vehicle had <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; endurance of a few hours (c. 20-50 miles road range).<BR><BR>Crew:&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Driver, seat. in turret,&nbsp; Volume 0.75 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr100*<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.75 m^3 of driver's position in hull.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Comnd., seat. in tur.,&nbsp; Volume 0.75 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100*<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.75 m^3 of commander's position in hull.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 7 Gunrs., seated in hull,&nbsp; Volume 10.5 m^3&nbsp; Weight 1.4 tons&nbsp; Cr 700<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 7 Loaders, stand. in hull, Volume 17.5 m^3&nbsp; Weight 1.4 tons&nbsp; Cr 700<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Mechanic, seated in hull, Volume 1.5 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Signaler, stand. in hull, Volume 2.5 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100<BR><BR>Signaler communicates orders from commander to gunners/loaders.<BR>Striker crew positions are too bulky.&nbsp; Had to use TL-6 figures for crew<BR>volume.&nbsp; Commander &amp; driver *were* sitting, so I ignored the commander must<BR>stand rule.<BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>1 low velocity TL-5 5.5cm gun in fixed forward mount in hull front, with<BR>direct fire control.<BR>Crew: 2<BR>Weight: 0.18 tons.&nbsp; Volume: 0.18 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 12,000<BR>Direct fire control: 0.005 tons.&nbsp; 0.005 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 500.<BR>Range: 20 cm / 60 cm / 150 cm.&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Stabilization gear: none. <BR>ROF per phase: 7.<BR>Signature: +2.<BR><BR>Ammunition Types:<BR>HE: PV 8/1/1.&nbsp; Wt. 0.005 tons.&nbsp; Vol. 0.005 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 10.&nbsp; Figures per round.<BR>KEAP: PV 14/12/10.&nbsp; Wt 0.005 tons.&nbsp; Vol. 0.005 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 10. Figures per <BR>round.<BR><BR>360 rounds carried (108 KEAP, 252 HE): Cr 3600,&nbsp; 1.8 tons,&nbsp; 1.8 m^3.<BR><BR>6 Medium Machineguns: 2 per side, 2 in rear, fixed mounts.&nbsp; No fire control<BR>or stabilization.<BR>Crew 2 per gun.<BR>Total volume: 0.057 m^3.&nbsp; Weight: 0.057 tons.&nbsp; Cr 9000<BR>150 belts of ammo carried (25 per gun): 0.375 tons.&nbsp; 0.375 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 18,000.<BR><BR>Waste Space in Hull: 0.19 m^3 (probably needs more for signaler to move)<BR>Waste Space in Turret: 0.813 m^3* <BR><BR>Ludowick &lt;meine hunde hatte keine narsea&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3219<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:44:57 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:43:54 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA41056;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:42:54 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:42:43 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA41009<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:42:43 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:42:43 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010252242.SAA41009@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3219<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3220<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>RE: eBooks<BR>Re: Collapsing Vacuum<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Cat Molars<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: capitals<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Interesting Variants<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>FF&amp;S2 Design:&nbsp; Solomani Confederation _Agincourt_-class Battlecruiser&nbsp; (long)<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>RE: Welfare in the 3I<BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:58:36 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>Ludowick@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I had to squeeze the crew in with a shoehorn.&nbsp; Fuel consumption much too<BR>&gt; high.&nbsp; But the weight came out about right.&nbsp; Ground pressure should be<BR>&gt; higher, as the tracks of the real vehicle aren't full length (required by<BR>&gt; Striker).&nbsp; Speed is a bit high (real vehicle: close to 12 kph).&nbsp; Crew<BR>&gt; probably needs more room (for signaler to move from command platform to<BR>&gt; gunners).&nbsp; It didn't come out too bad, though.<BR><BR>I have had similar experiences when trying to reverse-engineer WWI tanks for<BR>Striker; you end up violating a number of rules or getting _way_ off the<BR>historical values. I suppose that the rules are just guidelines, though, and<BR>can be bent or broken as needed. For example, the rules will not let you<BR>build a vehicle with the dimensions of the British Mk V or Mk IX, and the<BR>French light tanks just don't seem to work out. On the other hand, the idea<BR>of a TL 5 4 cm autocannon is somewhat amusing.<BR><BR>Another problem with the A7V is that the only A7V figures which I could find<BR>(Scotia) are of _extremely_ poor quality. The only two sources of<BR>micro-scale TL 5 vehicles I have found are Scotia and Irregular. The quality<BR>of the Scotia castings is extremely uneven. The quality of the Irregular<BR>castings is lower, but more consistent.<BR><BR>&gt; Ludowick &lt;meine hunde hatte keine narsea&gt;<BR><BR>"narsea?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:26:19 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: eBooks<BR><BR>&gt;At 22:01 -0400 24/10/00, "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;This sort of thing - though not this particular site - have been a bit<BR>&gt;&gt;of a hot topic on rec.arts.sciencefiction recently. Are you sure that<BR>&gt;&gt;you bought a legitimate copy and that Carol Cherryh is getting her<BR>&gt;&gt;copyright protected or have you bought a pirate copy?<BR><BR>http://www.cherryh.com/www/releases.htm<BR><BR>The above link - which is CJ Cherryh's own website - mentions that <BR>she is releasing the books via Peanut Press.<BR><BR>Not Pirate.<BR><BR>Dom.<BR><BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "People who beat their swords into plowshares<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; tend to get wiped out by people who don't." sfconsim-l<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:59:14 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing Vacuum<BR><BR>"experiments, and detected the characteristic photons from positron-<BR>electron annihilation from near our own galaxy's core."<BR><BR>A baking powder?&nbsp; There's significant amounts of antimatter/matter<BR>interactions near the galactic core?&nbsp; Interesting.&nbsp; What's the/a theory as<BR>to what's going on there? <BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:25:53 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>At 08:50 25.10.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard Heroes<BR>&gt;that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR><BR>Will there also be a teeny-weenie adventure included with the Screen, to <BR>uphold the good old tradition of Traveller Screens (MT, TNE, T4 all had <BR>adventures of about 4 pages included). Pleeeze? I love those little things, <BR>and as the Screens are for refs only anyway, this would be a great place <BR>to publish a folio.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:35:02 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>At 09:56 25.10.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Well. This just blows Bode's Law right out the window, doesn't it?<BR>Er, whats Bodes Law? Just curious!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:38:11 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>At 20:17 21.10.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;yeah but I do miss "UFO"...:-(<BR>Oh, I loved that show. With its funny sound effects, the interceptors that <BR>had only one shot, the moonbase, where all the female ops had purple hair...<BR>Got to get it back on TV!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:17:37 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Cat Molars<BR><BR>&gt; Cats don't have molars, they're carnivores.<BR><BR>Aren't they called carnissals in carnivores?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:20:05 -0500<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>Paul Drye wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; If you're looking to push a spaceship around, you could do it by not mixing<BR>&gt; matter and anti-matter in a 1:1 ratio. Fission turns only a fraction of one<BR>&gt; percent of the fissile material's mass into energy, IIRC, and fusion is only<BR>&gt; somewhat better.<BR><BR>&gt; So use water as your matter in a ratio of, say, 50:1 with your antimatter.<BR>&gt; You'd still have a very efficient reaction which -- instead of flying off<BR>&gt; all over the place -- superheats the remaining water (though I suppose it<BR>&gt; wouldn't *be* water any more) into a nifty exhaust for a good old-fashioned<BR>&gt; reaction drive.<BR><BR>I think Dr. Robert Forward calculated that a 4:1 ratio would provide the<BR>highest thrust with the least amount of antimatter. <BR><BR>&gt; Could the same reaction be used for power generation? I'm guessing not at a<BR>&gt; small scale. But I keep picturing a really, really high tech steam train.<BR>&gt; ("Why do you call her the 'Rocket', Mr. Stephenson?")<BR><BR>Sure, I don't see why not. <BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:24:41 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>Brandon Cope saith:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard <BR>Heroes<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Very nice. Two questions:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; (1) Any chance the GM Screen (which will include some CHs) will be out <BR>before<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Christmas? (I know, not really in you power, but just curious as to how <BR>far down<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the line the project has gotten).<BR><BR>I don't know -- lessee, we've got the Brubek's maps already, and we got the <BR>folders already, and we are just waiting for the Card Board heroes sheets to <BR>come in from the printer -- allegedly they are on the truck . . . ummm . . .<BR><BR>Let me check the schedule and get back to you on that.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; (2) What species is the lizard guy? IIRC, the Ithklur had shorter tails.<BR><BR>He's Ithklur. It's a matter of individual variation.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:44:08 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 20:17 21.10.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;yeah but I do miss "UFO"...:-(<BR>&gt; Oh, I loved that show. With its funny sound effects, the interceptors that <BR>&gt; had only one shot, the moonbase, where all the female ops had purple hair...<BR>&gt; Got to get it back on TV!<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>The good news is that A&amp;E is supposed to be bringing the entire series out<BR>on DVD sometime in the next year!!!&nbsp; Needless to say I'll be buying those<BR>DVD's!&nbsp; They're also bringing out some of the same producer's (whose name<BR>escapes me at the moment) shows out on DVD.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Zane<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:44:17 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>Paul Drye wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Perturbation theory is only an approximation to the real underlying<BR>&gt; &gt;quantum-mechanical process, so there is really no claim that the virtual<BR>&gt; &gt;states really exist; they are really only an approximation to<BR>&gt; &gt;the real thing.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But they were a good enough approximation to lead to Stephen Hawking's<BR>&gt; famous notion that black holes evaporate over time. It's my understanding<BR>&gt; that black holes go away because a virtual particle pair appears close<BR>&gt; enough to the event horizon for one particle to be eaten while the other<BR>to<BR>&gt; wanders away. Since the energy needed to create the one that got away has<BR>to<BR>&gt; come from somewhere, it gets siphoned off of the hole.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So either it's a pretty good approximation, or else (as has just occurred<BR>to<BR>&gt; me) no-one's really demonstrated that black holes really do evaporate. I<BR>&gt; can't recall such a demonstration off the top of my head.<BR><BR>My understanding is that Hawking's work on the subject did not use<BR>perturbation theory, but rather used some other obscure mathematical<BR>technique whose name I can't remember. I think that the virtual particle<BR>description is really more a popular science description of what goes on<BR>rather than a mathematically precise one.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:53:43 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: capitals<BR><BR>When did Norris' archducality become effective.&nbsp; At the time he became<BR>Archduke, perhaps Delphine became the sector duchess.&nbsp; I somehow think that<BR>the official timeline doesn't support this.<BR><BR>- -Dan lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:03:39 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Brandon Cope saith:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (1) Any chance the GM Screen (which will include some CHs) will be out<BR>&gt; before<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Christmas? (I know, not really in you power, but just curious as to how<BR>&gt; far down<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the line the project has gotten).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't know -- lessee, we've got the Brubek's maps already, and we got the<BR>&gt; folders already, and we are just waiting for the Card Board heroes sheets to<BR>&gt; come in from the printer -- allegedly they are on the truck . . . ummm . . .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Let me check the schedule and get back to you on that.<BR><BR>Ah, good. Though I'm looking forward to GT: Modular Cutters a bit more since I<BR>allegedly (said Andy) had at least one of my contributions make the book ;)<BR><BR>Another question (yes, I know you're not the Shell answer man ;) -- in general,<BR>what tables are going to be included?<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (2) What species is the lizard guy? IIRC, the Ithklur had shorter tails.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; He's Ithklur. It's a matter of individual variation.<BR><BR>Maybe I was thinking of the Gorn ...<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:03:53 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Interesting Variants<BR><BR>Hmm, first James J comes up with a neat Basic-to-advanced Chargen<BR>conversion idea that I never thought of, and now there's this interesting<BR>variant from the latest issue of JTAS. It concerns using attributes in CT,<BR>and it seems so obvious I can't believe it didn't occur to me.&nbsp; Well,<BR>wonders never cease. <BR><BR>The basic idea is that when making any kind of task roll, you add +1 if<BR>the roll is under the related attribute, ignoring any other<BR>attribute-based bonuses suggested by the rules (you add the skill level as<BR>usual).&nbsp; This is neat for a couple of reasons: One is that it provides<BR>another use for the attribute value.&nbsp; This is especially a problem<BR>in MT, where (IIRC) the attribute value itself is never used for anything,<BR>just derived A/5 modifiers (and the modifiers for attributes come out to<BR>+1 for just about everybody anyway). <BR><BR>The other reason I like this is that it provides the feeling that your<BR>native ability can "bail you out" if you've screwed up, but won't really<BR>enable you to achieve loftier things than a more skilled person can (ie. <BR>it can't increase your maximum roll).&nbsp; For most tasks that feels right to<BR>me.<BR><BR>I also like the modest contribution attributes make under this system.<BR>Very nice.<BR><BR>Hmm...I probably shouldn't be giving this away to non-subscribers, so all<BR>of you have to go and sign up for JTAS now, okay?!&nbsp; It's more than worth<BR>the 15$ a year just for Loren's editorials.&nbsp; <BR>BTW, it's now officially canon that all Imperial nobles wear their<BR>underwear on the outside! (See what you're missing? :-) <BR><BR>Go to:<BR>http://jtas.sjgames.com<BR>and bring your credit card!<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:14:39 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:35:02 +0200<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At 09:56 25.10.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Well. This just blows Bode's Law right out the window, doesn't it?<BR>&gt;Er, whats Bodes Law? Just curious!<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Bode's Law isn't _actually_ a law. It's a theory. (Don't ask me why they <BR>call it a law).<BR><BR>Bode's Law provides a system of planetary placement based on AU. It uses two <BR>variables: D and B. D is the distance (in AU) from the star to the first <BR>planet. In our system, D=0.4. B is the Bode constant, which is the distance <BR>between the first planet and the second. For Sol, B=0.3.<BR><BR>So, the first planet's orbit equals D, and the second planet's orbit equal <BR>D+B. After this, the Bode constant is doubled for each further step and then <BR>added to D. So it works out to:<BR><BR>Planet&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Distance<BR>1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D<BR>2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+B<BR>3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+2B<BR>4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+4B<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+8B<BR>6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+16B<BR>7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+32B<BR>8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+64B<BR>9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+128B<BR>10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; D+256B<BR>...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ...<BR><BR>Now, if you count the asteroid belt as a kind of "placeholder" for a planet, <BR>the system works almost perfectly up until Neptune, which occupies a <BR>position between 7 and 8. Pluto occupies roughly orbit 8. And, with the <BR>discovery of Plutina between Neptune and Pluto, the system is even further <BR>thrown off.<BR><BR>What does all of this prove? It proves that the universe is a really weird <BR>place that defies our every attempt to completely codify its physical laws.<BR><BR>Anyway, I hope that this helps.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #16<BR><BR>Harrison suddenly had an idea. He rang Melissa's comm. She picked up.<BR><BR>"Yeah," she said, "What do you want?"<BR><BR>"How good are you at opening locks?" Harrison asked.<BR><BR>Melissa was silent for a while. Finally, she said, "Good enough. Why do you <BR>ask?"<BR><BR>Harrison smiled. "Just meet me in the cargo bay after dinner."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:14:47 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:35:02 +0200<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At 09:56 25.10.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Well. This just blows Bode's Law right out the window, doesn't it?<BR>&gt;Er, whats Bodes Law? Just curious!<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Bode's Law isn't _actually_ a law. It's a theory. (Don't ask me why they <BR>call it a law).<BR><BR>Bode's Law provides a system of planetary placement based on AU. It uses two <BR>variables: D and B. D is the distance (in AU) from the star to the first <BR>planet. In our system, D=0.4. B is the Bode constant, which is the distance <BR>between the first planet and the second. For Sol, B=0.3.<BR><BR>So, the first planet's orbit equals D, and the second planet's orbit equal <BR>D+B. After this, the Bode constant is doubled for each further step and then <BR>added to D. So it works out to:<BR><BR>Planet&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Distance<BR>1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D<BR>2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+B<BR>3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+2B<BR>4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+4B<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+8B<BR>6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+16B<BR>7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+32B<BR>8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+64B<BR>9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D+128B<BR>10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; D+256B<BR>...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ...<BR><BR>Now, if you count the asteroid belt as a kind of "placeholder" for a planet, <BR>the system works almost perfectly up until Neptune, which occupies a <BR>position between 7 and 8. Pluto occupies roughly orbit 8. And, with the <BR>discovery of Plutina between Neptune and Pluto, the system is even further <BR>thrown off.<BR><BR>What does all of this prove? It proves that the universe is a really weird <BR>place that defies our every attempt to completely codify its physical laws.<BR><BR>Anyway, I hope that this helps.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #16<BR><BR>Harrison suddenly had an idea. He rang Melissa's comm. She picked up.<BR><BR>"Yeah," she said, "What do you want?"<BR><BR>"How good are you at opening locks?" Harrison asked.<BR><BR>Melissa was silent for a while. Finally, she said, "Good enough. Why do you <BR>ask?"<BR><BR>Harrison smiled. "Just meet me in the cargo bay after dinner."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:34:01 -0700<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:10:00 -0400 (EDT), Charles Collin <BR>&lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;An iceball named EB173, ~400 miles in diameter has been found between<BR>&gt;Neptune and Pluto.<BR><BR>No doubt the ice is a frozen layer of illudium phosdex (the "shaving cream <BR>atom").<BR><BR><BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:45:20 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: FF&amp;S2 Design:&nbsp; Solomani Confederation _Agincourt_-class Battlecruiser&nbsp; (long)<BR><BR>From a Solomani Confederation press release, 298-1117:<BR><BR>WHEREAS:<BR><BR>This day, 25 October, AD 5638 [1], is the anniversary of three major<BR>battles in Terran history, to wit:<BR><BR>&nbsp; The Battle of Agincourt (25 October 1415)<BR>&nbsp; The Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava (25 October 1854)<BR>&nbsp; The Battle off Samar (25 October 1944), and;<BR><BR>WHEREAS:<BR><BR>All three of these battles were marked by extreme heroism by outnumbered<BR>forces;<BR><BR>THEREFORE:<BR><BR>The Navy of the Solomani Confederation is proud to announce this date<BR>the commissioning of SCN _Agincourt_, the first of a new class of<BR>battlecruiser, the names of which will serve to commemorate Solomani<BR>courage in extreme circumstances.&nbsp; The second and third shps in this<BR>class, SCN _Balaclava_ and SCN _Samar_, are also commissioned on this<BR>date.<BR><BR>[1] If my calculations are correct, AD 5638 corresponds to Imperial Year<BR>1117.<BR><BR>**specifications follow**<BR><BR>Solomani Naval Shipyards _Agincourt_-class Battlecruiser<BR><BR>Tons: 160,000 std (SL Wedge Hypersonic) <BR>Dimensions: 409.1 m x 280.8 m x 116.9 m<BR>Volume: 2240000 m3<BR>Cargo: 3000 std (20 hatches, Hdl: 20 x 40 t) <BR>Mass (L/C): 2895542 t / 2787777 t <BR>Maintenance Points: 71457<BR>Passengers High/Med: 0 <BR>Crew: 3299 / 3979 <BR>Frozen Watch: 249 (10 groups)<BR>Cost: 192003.835 MCr&nbsp;&nbsp; (Cost Multiplier 1)<BR>Tech Level: 14<BR>Size: 11 <BR><BR>Electronics<BR>Controls: Holographic, Standard automation. 20 x FibComp (CM: .25 CP:<BR>4.0). Terrain following sensors (TF: 540, NOE: 180). Bridge.<BR>Communications: 4 x Dir Radio Rcvr (1,000 AU, 0.02 MW). 4 x Radio (1,000<BR>AU, 0.2 MW). 8 x Laser (1,000 AU, 0 MW)<BR>Sensors: 1 x PEMS (14.5 [160 mkm], 0.5 MW). 1xAEMS (13 [16 mkm], LP, 500<BR>MW). 40 x LIDAR (15.5 [5 mkm], 4 MW).<BR>Survey/Science: None<BR>ECM: 4 x Radio Jammer (1,000 AU, 0.4 MW). 1 x Area Jammer (12, 625 MW).<BR>1 x Deceptive Jammer (13, 12.5 MW). 1 x Passive Jammer (16, 6.25 MW).<BR>Signatures: Vis: 0, IR: 0.1 (0.5 at 377016 MW, 0 at 40700 MW), Act: 0.5,<BR>Neu: 1, Grav: 2<BR><BR>Performance <BR>4 Jump (16000 std/pc fuel)<BR>5 / 5.1 Maneuver (Thruster: 358344 MW)<BR>No Contra-grav<BR>4822 kph/4873 kph Atmosphere Maximum <BR>3617 kph/3655 kph Atmosphere Cruise <BR>5 Power (Fusion: 407000 MW, 1 yr) <BR>0 Battery<BR>66921.4 Fuel (Scoop:5 / Purif: 24, 1171 MW) <BR>3950/50/250/1000 Accommodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy Low<BR>Berth) <BR>104000 Life Sup. (Type:Extended, Normal Food/Storage) <BR>5 G-Comp <BR>60 x Sandcaster (AV: 50, 40 x canister ea., arranged in 10 x bty) <BR>24 x Nuclear Damper Turret (10 MW, Range: 50000 km, arranged in 6 x bty) <BR>300 Damper Screen (72 MW) <BR>664 Meson Screen (719.83 MW) <BR>130 [2002] Armor, 59 Structure <BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>96 x 61 MJ Laser Turret Battery (+5) 1 /5-2-2-2 [4, 200/20-20-20-20]<BR>(Long Range) (4 x turret/bty). PD ROF: 800<BR>8 x 568 MJ Laser Bay (+5) 1/5-5-5-5 [2, 100/60-60-60-60] (Long Range) (2<BR>x laser/bay).<BR>24 x Missile Bay Auto 4/4 (Mag: 76, MFD Range: 500000 km) with 80 x Cmd<BR>DL 1d6/2 6.0 G12 1000 AU.<BR>1 x 40.54k MJ NPAW (+5) 2/15-15-15-15 [1, 200/1430-1430-1430-1430] (Long<BR>Range). (Armor: 30 [115]).<BR><BR>Features:<BR>1600 x Airlock<BR>1 x Docking Umbilical<BR>2 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea.) <BR>70 x Machine Shop (8 std ea.) <BR>28 x Sickbay (8 std ea.) <BR>16 x Prisoner Capacity (8 x MedSec brig, 8 x HiSec brig) <BR>1 x Ship's locker (80 std) <BR>40 x Armory (3.57 std ea., Cap: 100) <BR>40 x Gym (2.5 std ea.) <BR>8 x Lounge (90 std ea.) <BR>1 x Combat Information Center (90 std) <BR>9 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 60) <BR>20 x Full Galley (Cap: 200 ea.) <BR><BR>Small Craft:<BR>50 x Minimal Hangar (50 std ea, 50 x hatch) <BR><BR>Backups <BR>Drives: None <BR>Screens: 2 x Meson Screen (PV: 143). <BR>Communications:&nbsp; None<BR>Sensors: 4 x PEMS (14 [50 mkm]). 3 x AEMS (12.5 [5 mkm] LP). <BR>ECM: None<BR>Power &amp; Fuel: 1 x Fusion (20000 MW). <BR><BR>Crew Details: 10 x Maneuver. 5 x Electronics. 2514 x Engineer. 227 x<BR>Maintenance. 176 x Gunner. 27 x Screen. 150 x Flight. 150 x Troops. 543<BR>x Command. 45 x Medical.&nbsp; 132 x Steward.<BR><BR>**specifications end**<BR><BR>Designer's notes:<BR><BR>This design reverses the usual logic of the battlecruiser concept, by<BR>combining cruiser-type armament with battleship-type armor.&nbsp; With 5-G<BR>and J-4 capability, the _Agincourt_ class possesses tactical and<BR>strategic mobility associated with cruisers at TL-14.&nbsp; As one would<BR>expect from the Solomani Confederation, the announcement of this class<BR>entering service corresponds to a significant date in Terran history.<BR><BR>In closing, I offer the following quotes:<BR><BR>[From Shakespeare's _Henry V_]<BR><BR>We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;<BR>For he today that sheds his blood with me<BR>Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,<BR>This day shall enoble his rank.<BR><BR>[From Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade"]<BR><BR>When can their glory fade?<BR>Oh, the wild charge they made!<BR>&nbsp; All the world wondered.<BR>Honor the charge they made!<BR>Honor the Light Brigade,<BR>&nbsp; Noble Six Hundred!<BR><BR>[From Chief Gunner's Mate Jenkins, USS _White Plains_ off Samar]<BR><BR>Hold on a little longer, boys, we're sucking them into 40-mm range!<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:49:58 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:10:00 -0400 (EDT), Charles Collin<BR>&gt; &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;An iceball named EB173, ~400 miles in diameter has been found between<BR>&gt; &gt;Neptune and Pluto.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No doubt the ice is a frozen layer of illudium phosdex (the "shaving cream<BR>&gt; atom").<BR><BR>Thus explaining how Terran and Martian forces arrived on-planet nearly<BR>simultaneously.<BR><BR>For more details on this subject, I refer you to the following Web page:<BR><BR>http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/245.html<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:47:04 -0700<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Welfare in the 3I<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Has the subject of public welfare ever been dealt in any<BR>&gt;&nbsp; canon work? If so,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; are individual worlds the only source, or are there subsector-level<BR>&gt;&nbsp; programs? If not, I would be interested in hearing how you<BR>&gt;&nbsp; handle it IYTU.<BR><BR>Sounds like an individual world sort of thing....<BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:54:05 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;For the Nov. 18 Striker meet, here is the German WWI steel shoebox on a Holt<BR>&gt;tractor chassis, the A7V!<BR><BR>&nbsp; I swear, your honour, they said they were going to use the, umm, surplus<BR>agricultural tractors _responsibly!_<BR>(anon. middle-man under questioning)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3220<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3221</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>10/25/00 8:58:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3221<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>SCN _Agincourt_-class Ship Names (longish)<BR>Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>Re: Cardboard Heros<BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: Collapsing Vacuum<BR>SCN _Agincourt_, et al.<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR>Re: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night ?<BR>Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:57:27 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: SCN _Agincourt_-class Ship Names (longish)<BR><BR>To date, the following names have been allocated to SCN<BR>_Agincourt_-class battlecruisers (note that _Agincourt_, Balaclava_, and<BR>_Samar_ are the first three vessels to commission):<BR><BR>Agincourt<BR>St. Crispin<BR>Westmoreland<BR>Warwick<BR>Talbot<BR>Exeter<BR>Bedford<BR>Salisbury<BR>Gloucester<BR>Henry V<BR><BR>Balaclava<BR>Sir Colin Campbell<BR>93rd Sutherland Highlanders<BR>Maude<BR>Scarlett<BR>13th Hussars<BR>Light Brigade<BR><BR>Samar<BR>Johnston<BR>Hoel<BR>Heermann<BR>Samuel B. Roberts<BR>Gambier Bay<BR>Fanshaw Bay<BR>White Plains<BR>Kalinin Bay<BR>Kitkun Bay<BR>St. Lo<BR>Clifton Sprague<BR>Ernest E. Evans<BR>L.S. Kintberger<BR>A.T. Hathaway<BR>R.W. Copeland<BR>W.D. Thomas<BR>R.L. Fowler<BR>Edward J. Huxtable<BR>Paul G. Garrison<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:03:13 -0500<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>At 08:02 AM 10/25/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; I'll need a little<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; time to create some rubber physics and a plausible time<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; machine but...yeah.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; All you really need is an improved reactionless drive. Jump<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; drives plus<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; easily reached near c velocities gives time travel...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Nah, Time dilation's too easy.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's not just time dilation. You have to hit near c velocities in the<BR>&gt;right directions, and make the right jumps. But if you do it all right,<BR>&gt;you wind up in the past.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Don't ask me for detailed instructions, I'm still trying to get someone<BR>&gt;to draw them up... &lt;sigh&gt;<BR><BR>If the amount of jump fuel a ship needed was based on mass instead of <BR>volume, this would be less of a problem. Yes, it would be possible in <BR>theory for a ship to jump at near c velocities, it's just impossible for <BR>the ship to carry enough fuel to make the jump.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Richard Wilson<BR><BR>rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR><BR>========================================================================<BR>Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>strive to overcome.<BR>========================================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:08:06 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cardboard Heros<BR><BR>Wilhelmina Scharnhort&nbsp; Striking resembence to the illos of her.&nbsp; She's the<BR>granny who looks like she could pop a skull like a ...<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; One of these looks a lot like the nasty evil Governor from Cadillacs &amp;<BR>&gt; Dinosaurs....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ---<BR>&gt; urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>&gt; "We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued<BR>&gt; other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and<BR>&gt; rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll<BR>&gt; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ---<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:13:06 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;Ludowick@aol.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller-digest@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 11:41 PM<BR>Subject: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For the Nov. 18 Striker meet, here is the German WWI steel shoebox on<BR>a Holt<BR>&gt; tractor chassis, the A7V!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Crewed by an entire section, with better armor than most WWI tanks, it<BR>has<BR>&gt; horrible cross country performance.&nbsp; Historically, had mechanical<BR>reliability<BR>&gt; problems.&nbsp; For each A7V in the starting line-up of a player roll 1D.<BR>If a 1<BR>&gt; or 2 is rolled, roll another 1D.&nbsp; On a 1-3 vehicle breaks down badly<BR>before<BR>&gt; being able to reach assembly point; remove from board.&nbsp; On a 4-6<BR>vehicle<BR>&gt; suffers mobility problems; road speed 3 kph/2.5 cm -- leave it on the<BR>board.<BR>&gt; Most such A7Vs were ordered to retire, rather than engage the enemy.<BR><BR>Hmmm, on a 1-2 roll again, on the second roll 1-3 Option A, 4-6 Option<BR>B...<BR><BR>Surely just having the first roll go: 1 Option A, 2 Option B, 3+ Normal,<BR>gives exactly the same result with one less die roll...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:16:05 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 11:58 PM<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Ludowick@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I had to squeeze the crew in with a shoehorn.&nbsp; Fuel consumption much<BR>too<BR>&gt; &gt; high.&nbsp; But the weight came out about right.&nbsp; Ground pressure should<BR>be<BR>&gt; &gt; higher, as the tracks of the real vehicle aren't full length<BR>(required by<BR>&gt; &gt; Striker).&nbsp; Speed is a bit high (real vehicle: close to 12 kph).<BR>Crew<BR>&gt; &gt; probably needs more room (for signaler to move from command platform<BR>to<BR>&gt; &gt; gunners).&nbsp; It didn't come out too bad, though.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have had similar experiences when trying to reverse-engineer WWI<BR>tanks for<BR>&gt; Striker; you end up violating a number of rules or getting _way_ off<BR>the<BR>&gt; historical values. I suppose that the rules are just guidelines,<BR>though, and<BR>&gt; can be bent or broken as needed. For example, the rules will not let<BR>you<BR>&gt; build a vehicle with the dimensions of the British Mk V or Mk IX, and<BR>the<BR>&gt; French light tanks just don't seem to work out. On the other hand, the<BR>idea<BR>&gt; of a TL 5 4 cm autocannon is somewhat amusing.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Another problem with the A7V is that the only A7V figures which I<BR>could find<BR>&gt; (Scotia) are of _extremely_ poor quality. The only two sources of<BR>&gt; micro-scale TL 5 vehicles I have found are Scotia and Irregular. The<BR>quality<BR>&gt; of the Scotia castings is extremely uneven. The quality of the<BR>Irregular<BR>&gt; castings is lower, but more consistent.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ludowick &lt;meine hunde hatte keine narsea&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "narsea?"<BR><BR>A garbled version of "Nas". Nose. "My dog has no nose"<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:20:11 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;healyzh@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 1:44 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At 20:17 21.10.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;yeah but I do miss "UFO"...:-(<BR>&gt; Oh, I loved that show. With its funny sound effects, the interceptors<BR>that<BR>&gt; had only one shot, the moonbase, where all the female ops had purple<BR>hair...<BR>&gt; Got to get it back on TV!<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>The good news is that A&amp;E is supposed to be bringing the entire series<BR>out<BR>on DVD sometime in the next year!!!&nbsp; Needless to say I'll be buying<BR>those<BR>DVD's!&nbsp; They're also bringing out some of the same producer's (whose<BR>name<BR>escapes me at the moment) shows out on DVD.<BR>- ----------------------<BR>Gerry &amp; Sylvia Anderson?<BR><BR>Made (among others) Thunderbirds, Fireball XL5, Joe 90, Space:1999,<BR>Captain Scarlet, Stingray, Space Precinct...<BR><BR>Ahhh, memories :)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:29:50 -0400<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; One question, wasn't Gog &amp; Magog also out of Celtic, Scottish, Irish,<BR>&gt;Brittish, or Whelsh Folklore?&nbsp; I remember some stories about a pair of<BR>&gt;Demons (cannot remember of the are the Fermi from Irish Folklore or not)<BR>&gt;that ravaged the people of the Green &amp; Pleasant Land, until a Hero came &amp;<BR>&gt;fought it for several days &amp; couldn't kill it, but he was able to put it<BR>&gt;into a long sleep.&nbsp; But, you also have to look at why they made peace, the<BR>&gt;High Guard &amp; the Commonwealth had never fought a major war.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sort of.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Magog makes his first appearance in the Book of Genesis as one of the sons<BR>of Japeth. The name pops up again in Ezekiel as the name of a land, and Gog<BR>appears as some sort of ruler or high priest there. Gog is portrayed as an<BR>enemy of Israel (and therefore God). Gog and Magog show up yet again in the<BR>Book of Revelations. This time, they are both nations which are manipulated<BR>by Satan, and are destroyed by fire from the heavens as they march on<BR>Israel.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Somehow, the nations of Gog and Magog entered into the body of Alexander<BR>the Great folklore. According to legend, Alexander met with the nations of<BR>Gog and Magog and walled them in to protect the rest of the world from their<BR>wickedness. The wall was simply not enough, and different versions of the<BR>story have Alexander ensuring that Gog and Magog stay on their side of the<BR>wall in various crafty ways. According to the Christian version of the<BR>legend, the two evil nations will eventually escape to fulfill their role in<BR>the Book of Revelations. Whenever Christians were threatened by heathen<BR>invaders, it was assumed that the apocalypse was at hand.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gog and Magog also show up in the Koran, probably by way of the Alexander<BR>the Great stories. Apparently, although I don't remember the specifics,<BR>there was some linguistic confusion and Alexander's mythical deeds were<BR>attributed to an angel. Islamic folklore has God rebuilding the walls just<BR>as quickly as the nations try to tunnel out.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The obvious question is: How did the names of these two nations end up as<BR>the names of a two giant effigies in medieval Britain? Probably by way of a<BR>little linguistic confusion. In the middle ages, there was a legend<BR>concerning Brutus of Troy, the mythical father of Britain. Brutus was<BR>attacked by a giant with a name something like Goemagot. The giant was quite<BR>powerful. Unfortunately for the poor monster, Brutus's buddy Corineus was<BR>there, and Corineus was renowned for his love of wrestling giants. Corineus<BR>tossed Goemagot off of a cliff. And that was that, well, except for the fact<BR>that Corineus, as his name would suggest, would become the first chief of<BR>Cornwall. Both Brutus and Corineus were 12th century conceits invented by<BR>Geoffrey of Monmouth to forge a connection between Britain and classical<BR>antiquity.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Goemagot, for some reason, eventually ended up being spelled as Gogmagog,<BR>possibly due to the increased influence of the Bible in medieval England.<BR>After Goemagot became Gogmagog he split into two separate giants: Gog and<BR>Magog. Two large wooden or papier-mache effigies of giants appeared in<BR>London in the middle ages, bearing the names Gog and Magog. I can't remember<BR>if this was the suspected cause of the split, or a result of the split. They<BR>were tied in with a variant of the above legend in which Brutus captured two<BR>giants and brought them to London.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; For the sake of completeness, I'll add the following: Up until about the<BR>17th or 18th century, folks in Europe frequently speculated on the location<BR>of the nations of Gog and Magog. It was always assumed that these nations<BR>lurked "just off the map". Eventually, interest died out and the nations<BR>were more or less forgotten. In the latter half of the 20th century<BR>Apocalyptic Fundamentalist Christians "rediscovered" these two nations and<BR>came to the conclusion that they were actually the Russians or the Soviet<BR>Union. It was assumed that any day the reds would march on the nation of<BR>Israel, and that would be a sure sign that the end times were upon us. The<BR>collapse of the Soviet Union hasn't deterred some of these folks... so look<BR>out, I guess.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And that's pretty much the whole of my Gog and Magog knowledge. While Gog<BR>and Magog ended up as part of British lore, it doesn't appear that they<BR>started out that way. It appears that a giant with a similar name eventually<BR>acquired a conflated Biblical name through a little liguistic confusion.<BR>Then, the Gogmagog entity split into two, and the narrative changed to<BR>reflect this. That sort of thing's pretty common.<BR><BR>ObTrav: I can't think of one, and I don't want to cheese out by slapping<BR>something together at the last minute such as: The Third Imperium would<BR>likely revise history, just as Geoffrey of Monmouth did, in order to connect<BR>the new state to their own version of classical antiquity (the Rule of Man<BR>and the Ziru Sirka). That topic is already being discussed at the moment on<BR>the list, so I guess I'm a little late. Oh well.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:29:57<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>At 11:53 AM 10/25/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I want to play the bartender.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Why?&nbsp; So you can dress in women's clothing &amp; hang around in bars?&nbsp; (Just<BR>&gt;like a lumberjack?)* &lt;weg&gt;<BR><BR>Oh, you *don't* want an honest answer to that question... :P<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:51:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing Vacuum<BR><BR>"My understanding is that Hawking's work on the subject did not use<BR>perturbation theory, but rather used some other obscure mathematical<BR>technique whose name I can't remember. I think that the virtual particle"<BR><BR>You're not thinking of Penrose's topological methods, are you?&nbsp; I'm pretty<BR>sure Hawking used those for cosmological theories (the universe as finite<BR>but w/out boundaries and all that...).<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:59:19 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: SCN _Agincourt_, et al.<BR><BR>For those who might be interested in some historical references in the<BR>SCN's press release announcing the commissioning of the first three<BR>ships of the _Agincourt_-class battlecruiser, I offer the following<BR>links:<BR><BR>http://members.aol.com/FrOMeigs/happyfew.html<BR><BR>http://pw1.netcom.com/~bart/light_bde.html<BR><BR>http://www.adcgolf.com/leyte/leyte.htm<BR><BR>http://escortcarriers.org/bosamar/index1.html<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:00:46 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>Regarding Bode's law, it seems from what I've read lately that there's<BR>very little faith in the idea even as a "general principle" any more, much<BR>less a law.&nbsp; Recent models of planetary system formation suggest a very<BR>arbitrary set of orbits and planetary masses:&nbsp; Rockballs, asteroid belts<BR>and Gas giants can just as easily be close to a star or far away, and<BR>orbital radii show no discernable patterns except that (of course) orbits<BR>can't be close enough together for adjacent worlds to disrupt each other's<BR>orbits.<BR><BR>This jives with the discoveries of extra-solar "hot gas giants", although<BR>there's an obvious selection bias there...<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:49:49 -0500<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR><BR>Dallas Metroplex shows up strong on your list Eris.<BR>There are 8 and that's not counting myself.<BR><BR>Sounds like someone needs to host a Traveller<BR>game at the Uncommon Con. They're looking<BR>for GMs.<BR><BR>www.uncommoncon.com<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR><BR>Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I've been trying to keep a roster of "Traveller", TMLer's anyway, on my<BR>&gt; website for this very purpose.&nbsp; Go to http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>&gt; and take the link to the Traveller Mailing List Roster. The info is in<BR>&gt; text and comma delimited format for easy input into a spreadsheet.<BR>&gt; There are quite a few UK entries, but nothing specifically for Reading.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If anyone wants to be added, or updated, drop me a line.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:51:22 -0500<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>Rodney Basler wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Heck, what's the weather like right now??<BR><BR>And what is it likely to be in late January?<BR>I'm headed to Prague for a wedding and was thinking<BR>of dropping into London for a few days on the way<BR>out.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:11:41 -0500<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Rob Myers wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In his article at http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/tsr-rsd-0318.htm, Ryan Dancey tells the story of TSR's bankruptcy and its subsequent purchase by Wizards of the Coast. He identifies one very simple factor as the primary cause of TSR's demise: not knowing what the customer wanted.<BR><BR>I'm getting into this discussion after a lot has been said,<BR>as I see by the length of the thread, but bear with me,<BR>I've got a few points, that I hope are salient, all IMHO<BR>of course, and one 'un-salient' one.<BR><BR>Dancey is a [potentially slanderous material omitted on the<BR>advice of counsel].<BR>[That was the un-salient one]<BR><BR>I wouldn't put faith in any conclusions he claims, especially<BR>after seeing his week interpretations of market research<BR>data (which he posted not too long ago - if you want the<BR>URL, I'll dig it up).<BR><BR>Read Gary Gygax' account of the internal conflicts that<BR>TSR had.&nbsp; Even though he has a bias there, if half the<BR>stuff described actually went on, it's a wonder they<BR>produced *anything*.<BR>http://www.gygax.com/gygaxfaq.html<BR><BR>I don't think that giving customers everything they<BR>want is always a prudent approach.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because<BR>soon they will want *everything* and if you try<BR>to give them *everything*, it becomes much harder<BR>to sort the art from the shit.&nbsp; However, I do recognize<BR>the motivation.&nbsp; It is, or should be, to *listen* to customers.<BR>Ideally, to engage them in open discussions to get their<BR>feedback and ideas.&nbsp; Then you take that, analyze it,<BR>and use it to improve your stuff.&nbsp; You must filter it.<BR>Especially with the advent of the internet.&nbsp; Companies<BR>are drowning in feedback now.&nbsp; Players of online games<BR>can make substantial real world incomes by helping<BR>other game players through well-presented web pages<BR>serving up add impressions, there is such a demand for<BR>information.<BR><BR>To profit from feedback, you must be open to it.&nbsp; Perhaps<BR>TSR failed in that respect, but they seemed to have their<BR>hands full.&nbsp; After AOL came about, however, it was pretty<BR>easy to access to TSR designers.&nbsp; I spoke frequently with<BR>the designers of Birthright and Planescape.&nbsp; Anyone could.<BR>Maybe there is a connection between these creative products,<BR>and the availability of feedback, maybe not, but I know for<BR>a fact that from Day 0, they were open to feedback on these<BR>projects and subsequent products reflected it.<BR><BR><BR>WOTC is leveraging a "brand".&nbsp; The success of the<BR>AD&amp;D computer games, starting with Baldur's Gate<BR>(created by companies other than&nbsp; TSR/WOTC/HASBRO),<BR>dramatically enhanced the value of the D&amp;D brand.<BR><BR>And that "Open Gaming" crap is also an exercise<BR>in brand leveraging, but much more subtle and actually<BR>subversive to independent and creative game design.<BR>He thinks there is only room for about three different<BR>game systems in the game market, and he wants to<BR>put all the other systems out of business.&nbsp; I spoke with<BR>him about this on the Pyramid Game Business board.<BR>Surely, I thought, he only means he wants D&amp;D to<BR>be the best.&nbsp; But given several opportunities to clarify<BR>his statements, he did so.&nbsp; He thinks that competing<BR>game systems dilute the market for his system.&nbsp; Therefore,<BR>they must go away.&nbsp; "This town ain't big enough for<BR>both of us."&nbsp; I tried to give him every benefit of the<BR>doubt, but there is no doubt now.&nbsp; So, while I could<BR>see that a D20(tm) version of Traveller might make<BR>great sense business-wise, it would pain me to see it.<BR><BR><BR>"I want to be judged on results, not rhetoric. I want to<BR>look back at my time at the helm of this business and<BR>feel that things got better, not worse. I want to know<BR>that my team made certain that the mistakes of the past<BR>wouldn't be the mistakes of the future. I want to know<BR>that we figured out what went wrong. That we fixed it.<BR>That we saved D&amp;D. And that god damnit, we didn't<BR>lose money."<BR>- - Dancey, http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/tsr-rsd-0318.htm<BR><BR><BR>Game design is an art form.&nbsp; It isn't something put in<BR>museums yet, but it is at least as much an art form<BR>as writing.&nbsp; Add in design (and often algorhythyms)<BR>and often social engineering, and you quickly see<BR>that it takes talent/skill/experience.<BR><BR>Just as Art by Committee usually isn't, bottom-line<BR>oriented game design is short-sighted and misguided.<BR>Giving customers *everything* they want can, read<BR>"probably will", destroy the artistic process.&nbsp; Sure, you<BR>can target a product well and cash in on a trend, but<BR>that short-term success comes at the expense of long-term<BR>success.&nbsp; You eventually end up with hollow products.<BR><BR>The challenge for a game designer is to make *your*<BR>game first.&nbsp; Then try to sell it.&nbsp; But I think we're seeing the<BR>beginning of a new trend in table-top rpgs:&nbsp; Games want<BR>to be free.&nbsp; Electronic distribution and decreasing printing<BR>costs (actually the quality improvement of desktop publishing<BR>and printing resources, e.g., kinko's) means that more<BR>creators can get their creations out there.&nbsp; Look at BITS.<BR>It is a perfect example of this.&nbsp; Perhaps Dom and crew<BR>don't make enough on BITS products to quit their day<BR>jobs, but would you ever expect that?&nbsp; We're talking about<BR>*games*!&nbsp; Do you want the motivation for designing a<BR>game or game content be to pay the rent?&nbsp; To fill a marketing<BR>window?&nbsp; To make the Christmas rush?&nbsp; To get some<BR>"project" you have no passion for off your desk?&nbsp; To<BR>create something that is supposed to be fun and engaging<BR>because you *have* to?<BR><BR>I think these kinds of things help explain why 90% of computer<BR>games are pure crap.&nbsp; While working for Roger Wilco, I<BR>went to the trade shows, played the demos, talked to designers<BR>and programmers, and when I couldn't avoid, marketing people.<BR>I've been to the game companies offices, the small seminars,<BR>etc., etc.&nbsp; And you can *smell* the difference between a game<BR>company that is market-driven and one that is artistically<BR>passionate.&nbsp; At least two of the later will never be seen by<BR>the public, despite the marketing hype and advertising dollars.<BR><BR>Yet, there are many things to be optimistic about on the table<BR>top scene.&nbsp; Look at CheapAss games.&nbsp; Look at Ork!&nbsp; These<BR>are creative and unique products.&nbsp; At the same time, greats<BR>from the past are coming back in a big way.&nbsp; Gurps Traveller<BR>and the Traveller Reprints are an example of this, as is the<BR>resurrection of Ogre.&nbsp; And, indeed, some of the aspects of<BR>D&amp;D 3rd edition, too, though it is the most recent on the scene.<BR><BR>I'm beginning to think that what RPGs need is an indy label.<BR>Greg Costikyan, a game designer of the highest calibur,<BR>recently suggested this in the computer game industry.<BR>And Gathering of Developers attempts it.<BR><BR>[Check the Writing section of http://www.costik.com/&nbsp; for<BR>Costikyan's editorials].<BR><BR>Steve Jackson Games does a laudable job in this aspect<BR>at Warehouse 23.&nbsp; But is only online sales and retail shelf<BR>space is very important (assuming you want to move lots of<BR>units). But that means shipping and printing and various<BR>other things.&nbsp; Maybe it could work.&nbsp; Maybe not.&nbsp; Couldn't<BR>hurt could it?&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't think so.&nbsp; But we already know from<BR>Dancey's own words that new game systems will have a<BR>bull's eye on their back.<BR><BR>I say, the more game systems, the better.&nbsp; Treat game<BR>design like art and either starve or keep your day job<BR>while you make your masterpiece.&nbsp; "If you build it,<BR>they will come."<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:30:16 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night ?<BR><BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; Ah, but you're missing something extremely important. According to M0,<BR>Cleon<BR>&gt; strictly followed the Zhunastu School of Contact (or something like that),<BR>&gt; which uses a repressive regime that pretty much drains the world dry of<BR>&gt; natural resources. Add in a Civil War, a Rebellion, and over 1100 years of<BR>&gt; existence, and you've got yourself a strip-mined galactic arm. You'd<BR>&gt; basically end up with the situation in TNE, IMO, because the Domain of<BR>Deneb<BR>&gt; was really the only one that had enough resources to support civilization,<BR>&gt; and that only because it was the last to be inducted into the Imperium and<BR>&gt; was never a part of the Ziru Sirka or ROM.<BR><BR>Some of us have big issues with the long-term use of the Zhunatsu School of<BR>Contact. I wrote up my objections in a footnote to a post in the 'Dulinors<BR>Motivations' thread (I did them as a quote from a book by a 3I historian, so<BR>if anyone quotes them they owe Cr 0.1 to Naasiirka's publishing arm).<BR>Basically, the ZSC's methods run the risk of succeeding too well, and<BR>liquidating too much of a planet's infrastructure, as well as the Sylean<BR>Federation-resistant superstructure of the State. Once the Third Imperium<BR>was bigger and meaner than any potential threat, it just didnt need to use<BR>such expensive (if fast) methods.<BR><BR>I also think that the planets in the Core area would have a shortage of raw<BR>materials, so they'd use more manufactured ceramics and plastics. While you<BR>wouldnt want to transport 500 dtons of ceramics from the Marches to, say,<BR>Massilla, it doesnt cost that much to transport a cubic meter of a<BR>particular trace element that distance.<BR><BR>I believe that while three thousand or so years of industrial civilisation<BR>would exhaust many mining operations, I dont believe that it would exhaust<BR>scooping up the debris from the mega-storms on gas giants.<BR><BR>Of course, this sort of work requires a highly secure planetary system, and<BR>that just aint happening in the pre-Imperial or post-Hard Times periods.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:08:34 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; To a large degree, it is up to the PCs to determine how deep this<BR>&gt; depression - and how dark that decay - will be."<BR><BR>I'm actually optimistic about the speed at which the remants of the 3I could<BR>recover, once the war stopped.<BR><BR>Firstly, any and all debts for the areas in the Wilds get cancelled. This is<BR>especially true for any starships. Even if you have to pay cash on the<BR>barrel-head for parts, not having to pay mortgage payments makes Free<BR>Trading in the Wilds makes every credit over bare costs a profit. I believe<BR>that many of the Free Traders who stay in the Wilds will be driven by<BR>ideology - they choose to stay to keep the Imperium alive.<BR><BR>Secondly, you can do a lot with a small amount of transport. The Imperium<BR>had a lot of transport. Even with 90% of it destroyed in the War, I think<BR>you still have a lot of capacity to move the bare essentials.<BR><BR>Thirdly, you would have a radical shift of resources towards sustainable<BR>survival. The Third Imperium had a lot of fat. The war would have seen a lot<BR>of luxury and consumer good production shifted to War. The peace would see<BR>luxury and consumer expenditure fall further.<BR><BR>Fourthly, if Hard Times is to be believed, quite a bit did survive. With<BR>TL11 B-ports, you can maintain jump-2 freighters. With a Light Cruiser, you<BR>can maintain security around a world against any number of<BR>ethically-challenged merchants (the ship's renegade captain will, of course,<BR>run the world). An infantry company with attached artillery and air defense<BR>systems can hold a starport. I can see many units shooting their officers<BR>and turning renegade, as the war grinds on.<BR><BR>Finally, piracy is still difficult, because all Free Traders will be use<BR>collapsible fuel bladders in the cargo bay. Jump in, refuel, and send in the<BR>cutter to negotiate while you hang out far enough away to bug out ... I can<BR>also see convoy making a big comeback. The risk is capture on the ground, so<BR>I can easily see the cargo being transferred by cutter. A long-term move to<BR>Cargo Riders is pretty much inevitable.<BR><BR>The Imperial Remnants would probably have dropped to TL7-11. But I think<BR>they would have stabilised at this level, and it is a level high enough to<BR>sustain a viable industrial interstellar society.<BR><BR>But the key is the end of the war.<BR><BR>&gt; FWIW Old Expanses was annexed by the Solomani - at the sector Duke's<BR>&gt; requests - by 350-1117.<BR>&gt; (Survival Margin)<BR><BR>This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me. The Solomani offensive<BR>should have run out of steam at or about Capital. I am reminded of a quote<BR>from the time of the Wars of Religion in France "They would take the Grand<BR>Turk as King, as long as he would bring peace".<BR><BR>&gt; PS if you can get Hard Times, do so. It is a really nice resource.<BR><BR>Agreed in spades.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3221<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3222<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>The Night is Full of Stars<BR>Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR>Re: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Noses (Was: For low-tech Striker: A7V)<BR>Re: Collapsing Vacuum<BR>RE: Collapsing Vacuum<BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: TL13 AT request<BR>Heaven&amp;Earth &amp; Galactic<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Planet X discovered!<BR>RE: eBooks<BR>Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:11:02 -0500<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The Night is Full of Stars<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm sure others will have already suggested this, but 'The Long<BR>&gt; Night' was a 17 century period where there was no *Imperium* that<BR>&gt; ruled charted space.&nbsp; I don't imagine it as being devoid of<BR>&gt; interstellar trade or government, just no Imperium.&nbsp; One of the<BR>&gt; reasons I think TLN would be a great period to game in is that I see<BR>&gt; it as chock full of competing governments, companies and trade<BR>&gt; groups with power shifting back and forth and back again.&nbsp; I see it<BR>&gt; as a dynamic time, not like the static period of the 1100 3I.<BR><BR>Amen, brutha.<BR><BR>TLN is sort of like TNE minus the virus (one of my favorite seedy<BR>character names, btw).&nbsp; It's also a great place to set your hybrid<BR>Classic Traveller/Morrow Project game. Crack teams of soldiers<BR>and scientists, placed in long-term low-berth holdouts to survive<BR>a coming nuclear holocaust, awake and discover a changed world.<BR>populated with mutated flora and fauna,&nbsp; perhaps even strange<BR>starfish-like aliens.&nbsp; And a mission to restore civilization,<BR>discover/recover Prime Base and the TL17 starship concealed<BR>there and then move on to the stars.<BR><BR>I've been thinking of ways to adapt Morrow Project to Traveller<BR>and I think you've put 2 and 2 together for me, Eris.&nbsp; I'd love<BR>to try my hand at running a PBEM based on this - but I tend to<BR>bite off more than I can chew.&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:18:01 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR><BR>On 10/20/00 at 08:49 PM,&nbsp; Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Dallas Metroplex shows up strong on your list Eris.<BR>&gt;There are 8 and that's not counting myself.<BR><BR>&gt;Sounds like someone needs to host a Traveller<BR>&gt;game at the Uncommon Con. They're looking<BR>&gt;for GMs.<BR><BR>&gt;www.uncommoncon.com<BR><BR>&gt;bloo<BR><BR>Yep, you Texans (and I'll count you as one, seeing as you live there now) do love your games, and Traveller is well represented. &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:19:53 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; At 08:50 25.10.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;We thought people might like to see a small sample of the Cardboard Heroes<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;that will appear in certain upcoming products.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/art.html<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Will there also be a teeny-weenie adventure included with the Screen, to <BR>&gt;&nbsp; uphold the good old tradition of Traveller Screens (MT, TNE, T4 all had <BR>&gt;&nbsp; adventures of about 4 pages included). Pleeeze? I love those little <BR>things, <BR>&gt;&nbsp; and as the Screens are for refs only anyway, this would be a great place <BR>&gt;&nbsp; to publish a folio.<BR><BR>'Fraid not. Map and CH are all you get besides the screen.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:23:56 -0400<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Noses (Was: For low-tech Striker: A7V)<BR><BR>Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk notes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Ludowick &lt;meine hunde hatte keine narsea&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "narsea?"<BR><BR>A garbled version of "Nas". Nose. "My dog has no nose"&lt;&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>And a reference to the second episode of Monty Python, which featured the<BR>story of the funniest joke in the world, which was so funny that anyone who<BR>heard it died laughing. The British army developed it as a weapon.[1] The<BR>phrase was from Hitler's attempt at joke warfare:<BR><BR>"My Dog has no nose."<BR>"How does he smell?"<BR>"Terrible."[2]<BR><BR>Fred "Wenn ist der Weltstruck..." Ramen<BR><BR>[1] And now we know the *real* goal of Lucan's Virus research.<BR>[2] The German used in the episode actually says no such thing. And the Joke<BR>is translated into German gibberish.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:33:50 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing Vacuum<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:59:14 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&gt; From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "experiments, and detected the characteristic photons from positron-<BR>&gt; electron annihilation from near our own galaxy's core."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A baking powder?<BR><BR>Hm?<BR><BR>&gt; There's significant amounts of antimatter/matter interactions near the<BR>&gt; galactic core?&nbsp; Interesting.&nbsp; What's the/a theory as to what's going on<BR>&gt; there?<BR><BR>A jet of positrons is emerging from the core and colliding with ambient<BR>hydrogen gas.&nbsp; Here's a site that describes what's going on, to the extent<BR>we (think we) know:&nbsp; http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc97/5_3_97/fob1.htm<BR><BR>(I looked for more recent reports on this, but couldn't find any online.)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:09:41 -0700<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Collapsing Vacuum<BR><BR>Charles Collin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; "My understanding is that Hawking's work on the subject did not use<BR>&gt; perturbation theory, but rather used some other obscure mathematical<BR>&gt; technique whose name I can't remember. I think that the virtual particle"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You're not thinking of Penrose's topological methods, are you?&nbsp; I'm pretty<BR>&gt; sure Hawking used those for cosmological theories (the universe as finite<BR>&gt; but w/out boundaries and all that...).<BR><BR>I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was some name I can't pronounce, and I<BR>can pronounce Penrose just fine. There must be someone on the TML who has<BR>either read Hawking's paper or gone to a seminar of some sort where it was<BR>discussed fairly recently.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:14:13 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>...<BR>&gt;Another problem with the A7V is that the only A7V figures which I could find<BR>&gt;(Scotia) are of _extremely_ poor quality. The only two sources of<BR>&gt;micro-scale TL 5 vehicles I have found are Scotia and Irregular. The quality<BR>&gt;of the Scotia castings is extremely uneven. The quality of the Irregular<BR>&gt;castings is lower, but more consistent.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Joy - that means that when I finally open my Irregular "WW1 191x German<BR>Infantry Division" bag (BIG!) that all my A7's will be ugly :(<BR><BR>&nbsp; Got any spares? :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:26:12 -0700<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Joy - that means that when I finally open my Irregular "WW1 191x German<BR>&gt; Infantry Division" bag (BIG!) that all my A7's will be ugly :(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Got any spares? :)<BR><BR>Steve,<BR><BR>All is not lost.&nbsp; The Irregulars should have no problem that some filing<BR>and a good paint job can't fix...hopefully.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:18:44 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann wrote :<BR>&gt; At 20:17 21.10.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;yeah but I do miss "UFO"...:-(<BR>&gt; Oh, I loved that show. With its funny sound effects, the<BR>&gt; interceptors that had only one shot, the moonbase, where<BR>&gt; all the female ops had purple hair... Got to get it back on TV!<BR><BR>Me, I liked the string vest uniforms all the SkyDiver crew-people wore...<BR><BR>Actually, this show had some extremely good episodes, better than your<BR>average SF TV show.<BR><BR>Probably one of the first TV shows to portray the "enemy aliens" as "good<BR>people", other than perhaps a couple of episodes of Twilight Zone.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:24:18 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>healyzh@aracnet.com wrote :<BR>Re UFO:<BR>&gt; The good news is that A&amp;E is supposed to be bringing the entire series out<BR>&gt; on DVD sometime in the next year!!!&nbsp; Needless to say I'll be buying those<BR>&gt; DVD's!&nbsp; They're also bringing out some of the same producer's (whose name<BR>&gt; escapes me at the moment) shows out on DVD.<BR><BR>Gerry Anderson and Century 21.<BR><BR>Also responsible for Supercar, Fireball XL5, Stingray, Thunderbirds, Captain<BR>Scarlet &amp; the Mysterons, Joe 90, and Space 1999 (among others).<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:42:48 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR><BR>Steve Daniels wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Dallas Metroplex shows up strong on your list Eris.<BR>&gt; There are 8 and that's not counting myself.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sounds like someone needs to host a Traveller<BR>&gt; game at the Uncommon Con. They're looking<BR>&gt; for GMs.<BR><BR>Hey, not all of us Texans live in the Dallas area ... just most of the<BR>delusional Cowboys fans ...<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:40:14 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Heck, what's the weather like right now??<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And what is it likely to be in late January?<BR>&gt; I'm headed to Prague for a wedding and was thinking<BR>&gt; of dropping into London for a few days on the way<BR>&gt; out.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; bloo<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>It'll be mid-winter, traditionally hot and sunny.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:57:19 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Dancey is a [potentially slanderous material omitted on the<BR>&gt; advice of counsel].<BR>&gt; [That was the un-salient one]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I wouldn't put faith in any conclusions he claims, especially<BR>&gt; after seeing his week interpretations of market research<BR>&gt; data (which he posted not too long ago - if you want the<BR>&gt; URL, I'll dig it up).<BR><BR>Agreed, &amp; I know a number of folks at WOTC who feel exactly the <BR>same way.<BR><BR>&gt; And that "Open Gaming" crap is also an exercise<BR>&gt; in brand leveraging, but much more subtle and actually<BR>&gt; subversive to independent and creative game design.<BR>&gt; He thinks there is only room for about three different<BR>&gt; game systems in the game market, and he wants to<BR>&gt; put all the other systems out of business.&nbsp; I spoke with<BR>&gt; him about this on the Pyramid Game Business board.<BR>&gt; Surely, I thought, he only means he wants D&amp;D to<BR>&gt; be the best.&nbsp; But given several opportunities to clarify<BR>&gt; his statements, he did so.&nbsp; He thinks that competing<BR>&gt; game systems dilute the market for his system.&nbsp; Therefore,<BR>&gt; they must go away.&nbsp; "This town ain't big enough for<BR>&gt; both of us."&nbsp; I tried to give him every benefit of the<BR>&gt; doubt, but there is no doubt now.&nbsp; So, while I could<BR>&gt; see that a D20(tm) version of Traveller might make<BR>&gt; great sense business-wise, it would pain me to see it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "I want to be judged on results, not rhetoric. I want to<BR>&gt; look back at my time at the helm of this business and<BR>&gt; feel that things got better, not worse. I want to know<BR>&gt; that my team made certain that the mistakes of the past<BR>&gt; wouldn't be the mistakes of the future. I want to know<BR>&gt; that we figured out what went wrong. That we fixed it.<BR>&gt; That we saved D&amp;D. And that god damnit, we didn't<BR>&gt; lose money."<BR>&gt; - - Dancey, http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/tsr-rsd-0318.htm<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Game design is an art form.&nbsp; It isn't something put in<BR>&gt; museums yet, but it is at least as much an art form<BR>&gt; as writing.&nbsp; Add in design (and often algorhythyms)<BR>&gt; and often social engineering, and you quickly see<BR>&gt; that it takes talent/skill/experience.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just as Art by Committee usually isn't, bottom-line<BR>&gt; oriented game design is short-sighted and misguided.<BR>&gt; Giving customers *everything* they want can, read<BR>&gt; "probably will", destroy the artistic process.&nbsp; Sure, you<BR>&gt; can target a product well and cash in on a trend, but<BR>&gt; that short-term success comes at the expense of long-term<BR>&gt; success.&nbsp; You eventually end up with hollow products.<BR><BR>Very much agreed.&nbsp; Lots of game companies are jumping on the <BR>D20 bandwagon now, but I'm certain it won't last.&nbsp; From what I've <BR>seen lots of the reason for the enormous popularity of of D&amp;D3 is <BR>nostalgia from old fans.&nbsp; I don't know how much new audience they <BR>are reaching, but strongly suspect that without a miracle the boom <BR>will be over in under 2 years and the game industry will go back to <BR>normal.&nbsp; I'm expecting the whole process to look an awful lot like <BR>the CCG boom of the mid 90s.&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; The challenge for a game designer is to make *your*<BR>&gt; game first.&nbsp; Then try to sell it.&nbsp; But I think we're seeing the<BR>&gt; beginning of a new trend in table-top rpgs:&nbsp; Games want<BR>&gt; to be free.&nbsp; Electronic distribution and decreasing printing<BR>&gt; costs (actually the quality improvement of desktop publishing<BR>&gt; and printing resources, e.g., kinko's) means that more<BR>&gt; creators can get their creations out there.&nbsp; Look at BITS.<BR>&gt; It is a perfect example of this.&nbsp; Perhaps Dom and crew<BR>&gt; don't make enough on BITS products to quit their day<BR>&gt; jobs, but would you ever expect that?&nbsp; We're talking about<BR>&gt; *games*!&nbsp; Do you want the motivation for designing a<BR>&gt; game or game content be to pay the rent?&nbsp; To fill a marketing<BR>&gt; window?&nbsp; To make the Christmas rush?&nbsp; To get some<BR>&gt; "project" you have no passion for off your desk?&nbsp; To<BR>&gt; create something that is supposed to be fun and engaging<BR>&gt; because you *have* to?<BR><BR>I was with you up to this point, now I must *strongly* disagree.&nbsp; I'm <BR>a full-time game designer, I haven't worked another job of any sort <BR>of the past 4 years.&nbsp; By normal US standards my income *sucks*, <BR>but my needs are modest and I can devote my full time and <BR>attention to my work.&nbsp; I know a great many free-lance game writers <BR>and almost all the best ones are either full time or would be full <BR>time if the pay didn't suck as badly as it does.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Your statement above sounds far too much like the standard crap <BR>I've heard about how "true art" shouldn't be about money, and so it <BR>doesn't need to pay.&nbsp; I happen to believe that sort of thinking is an <BR>ill-considered load of BS.&nbsp; So what if they are games? Writing a <BR>good game or a good supplement is hard work and if there were <BR>only amateurs and dilettantes in this business there would be fewer <BR>excellent products and *way* fewer products of all types.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Being a good writer is a rare ability in this culture, and I feel it <BR>should be rewarded.&nbsp; It takes a great deal of time and effort to write <BR>a 60,000-80,000 word supplement.&nbsp; I can write a book this long in 3 <BR>months.&nbsp; Someone who can't devote their full attention to it and <BR>who is writing in breaks from their 40 hr/week grind is going to take <BR>a great deal longer to write this much.&nbsp; End result, many fewer <BR>books.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>I'm proud of being a freelancer, it allows me to pick and choose my <BR>projects.&nbsp; In the vast majority of cases I work on lines and projects <BR>because I think the project is really cool, or I love the line and want <BR>to write something for it.&nbsp; It's not about "just paying the rent" for me <BR>or for any other serious freelancer I know.&nbsp; If it was we'd be in a <BR>different line of work.&nbsp; We do the work because we love the job.&nbsp; <BR>We work hard and deserve to be paid a living wage.&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:14:33 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TL13 AT request<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Trevor, Peter<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2000 5:52 PM<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: TL13 AT request<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I need an TL13 infantry anti-tank weapon ... I'm&nbsp; thinking&nbsp; of&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; TL13 equivalent to the Milan anti-tank rocket (transportable&nbsp; and<BR>&gt; operable by a 4-man fireteam).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Has anyone got a design with&nbsp; stats&nbsp; in&nbsp; MT&nbsp; format?&nbsp; Ideally&nbsp; it<BR>&gt; should be powerful enough to pose a threat to a Zhodani Z-80 MBT.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt;<BR>I don't have an anti-tank missile but on my site is a TL13 Assault Gun/Tank<BR>Destroyer the Kanone, which should give the Zhodani tank crews nightmares,<BR>especially given the range of the Kanones 500Mj Fusion Gun.<BR><BR>It is in the MT section of my site www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:15:05 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Heaven&amp;Earth &amp; Galactic<BR><BR>Got my new computer today and was finally able to use Heaven &amp; <BR>Earth.&nbsp; I'm vastly impressed, that program is seriously cool!!! <BR><BR>I do have one question, is it compatible with Jim Vassilakos' <BR>wonderful sector mapper Galactic 2.4?&nbsp; If nothing else, can you <BR>load all those lovely sectors from Galactic into Heaven &amp; Earth.&nbsp; If <BR>so, perhaps some kind soul could explain how to do so in simple <BR>terms (a programmer, I'm not).<BR><BR>Many Thanks-<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:22:26 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>"Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hmmm, Battlefield Earth eh? Did you know that John Travolta thinks it<BR>&gt; has become a "cult hit" and is trying to raise funds for a sequel? <BR><BR>My guess is that this statement translates to it being a hit among <BR>the cult (ie lots of scientology drones love it).&nbsp; So, has anyone ever <BR>used a scam-cult like scientology in Traveller?&nbsp; If so, what did you <BR>do with it?<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:40:12 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>Luther Martin wrote :<BR><BR>&gt;Another problem with the A7V is that the only A7V figures which <BR>&gt;&nbsp; I could find(Scotia) are of _extremely_ poor quality. <BR>&gt; The only two sources of micro-scale TL 5 vehicles I have found <BR>&gt; are Scotia and Irregular. <BR><BR>Do Ros/Heroics and GHQ no longer manufacture WWI/WWII vehicles&nbsp; ?<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:12:35 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This is true.&nbsp; Such a person might be feared even <BR>&gt; in the Zhodani<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; consulate.&nbsp; Of course, it may be difficult to spot <BR>&gt; these people<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; even if you are looking for them.&nbsp; IMTU they are rare in the<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; extreme, requiring someone with a Mental Domination talent<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; and a Psi of 15 (only possible IMTU for humans <BR>&gt; trained up since<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; birth and getting regular psionic training).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Peez<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What if the character were to employ an Ancient artifact that <BR>&gt; would boost <BR>&gt; their Psi? (These would, of course, be even rarer.)<BR><BR>Ancient artifacts can justify pretty much anything.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:20:04 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On 26 Oct 2000, at 9:08, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Fourthly, if Hard Times is to be believed, quite a bit did survive. With<BR>&gt; TL11 B-ports, you can maintain jump-2 freighters. With a Light Cruiser, you can<BR>&gt; maintain security around a world against any number of ethically-challenged<BR>&gt; merchants (the ship's renegade captain will, of course, run the world). An<BR>&gt; infantry company with attached artillery and air defense systems can hold a<BR>&gt; starport. I can see many units shooting their officers and turning renegade, as<BR>&gt; the war grinds on.<BR><BR>Or their officers leading them in their treason.<BR><BR>&gt; This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me. The Solomani offensive<BR>&gt; should have run out of steam at or about Capital. I am reminded of a quote<BR>&gt; from the time of the Wars of Religion in France "They would take the Grand<BR>&gt; Turk as King, as long as he would bring peace".<BR><BR>It's one of the things that's always bugged me, too. I can't see how the <BR>Solomani couldn't have taken Daibei, the Solomani Rim (all of it) and all of <BR>Diaspora, as well as what canon says they got before their initial advance <BR>stalled. Later on they could only do better, as of all the involved factions <BR>they had by far the biggest safe, and it was _all_ out of raiding/black war <BR>strike range of everyone else. What's more their internal strife started too <BR>late to really affect them until right before it all came crashing down (in <BR>canon).<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:20:08 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:10:00 -0400 (EDT), Charles Collin <BR>&gt; &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;An iceball named EB173, ~400 miles in diameter has been found between<BR>&gt; &gt;Neptune and Pluto.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No doubt the ice is a frozen layer of illudium phosdex (the <BR>&gt; "shaving cream <BR>&gt; atom").<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>'I claim this planet for Mars. Isn't that lovely, hmm?'<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:35:46 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: eBooks<BR><BR>Dom, don't be miffed: I didn't suggest _you_ were in any way a pirate,<BR>just that some of the ebook sites are a bit (shall we say) of dubious<BR>legality. One of the people clobbered by one of them has been Carolyn<BR>(yeah, I did know that's her name - I just use Carol 'cos its shorter)<BR>so I was just forewarning people that they may need to take some of<BR>the sites with caution. No offence, I hope - none at all intended.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of SD Mooney<BR>&gt; Sent: 25 October 2000 18:34<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: eBooks<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At 22:01 -0400 24/10/00, "Mark Preston"<BR>&gt; &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;This sort of thing - though not this particular site -<BR>&gt; have been a bit<BR>&gt; &gt;of a hot topic on rec.arts.sciencefiction recently. Are<BR>&gt; you sure that<BR>&gt; &gt;you bought a legitimate copy and that Carol Cherryh is getting her<BR>&gt; &gt;copyright protected or have you bought a pirate copy?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Carolyn.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's the online wing of Tor Books. If it's a pirate site<BR>&gt; it's doing a<BR>&gt; good job of looking very legitimate.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If I'd bought a pirate copy of my favourite author's book I<BR>&gt; wouldn't<BR>&gt; be posting to the TML on it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And their method of copyright protection is excellent - you<BR>&gt; get your<BR>&gt; credit card number as the decryption password. If you pass it on it<BR>&gt; can only be viewed in their reader, and you need to tell the person<BR>&gt; you pass it to your CC number.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom (kind of annoyed at the suggestion of piracy.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Truth is a matter of the imagination."<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ursula LeGuin -&nbsp; 'The Left Hand of Darkness'<BR>&gt; http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:38:29 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>From Ian Whitchurch<BR>&gt; This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me. The Solomani offensive<BR>&gt; should have run out of steam at or about Capital. I am reminded of a<BR>quote<BR>&gt; from the time of the Wars of Religion in France "They would take the<BR>Grand<BR>&gt; Turk as King, as long as he would bring peace".<BR><BR>I tend to read it as the Solomani themselves becoming a bit fed up by the<BR>war.<BR><BR>A lot of people had died, and a lot of money had been spent, and there was<BR>very little obvious benefit.&nbsp; The result:&nbsp; a shortage of volunteer<BR>recruits, and unenthusiastic conscripts, and world governments that were<BR>increasingly prone to making excuses for not pulling their weight in the<BR>war effort.&nbsp; This results in retaliation from SolSec, and a spiral in which<BR>internal conflict starts to mount.<BR><BR>I wouldn't let it go to civil war within the Confederation, but I would go<BR>with a compromise deal where they settle for taking back the Solomani<BR>Sphere, and postpone further expansion until they rebuild their new worlds<BR>a little.<BR><BR>It can be argued that this is strategically nuts, in that it also allows<BR>the Imperium to recover, but at least some of those advocating it aren't<BR>really interested in continuing the war, and are looking towards converting<BR>the temporary halt into a permanent peace.<BR><BR>If you don't like that approach, consider this one:&nbsp; each high population<BR>world taken involves casualties, and requires a garrison.&nbsp; Let's pluck a<BR>figure out of the air, and say the total of the two averages a million<BR>sentients.&nbsp; (Obviously this figure can be disputed.) How many such worlds<BR>can you capture before you have a shortage of trained people?&nbsp; The Solomani<BR>Rim, in particular, has lots of hi-pop worlds, and at least some of them<BR>are likely to be contested with a ferocity that might make a million<BR>casualties an underestimate...<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:20:26 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>&gt; From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>&gt; For the Nov. 18 Striker meet, here is the German WWI steel shoebox on a<BR>&gt; Holt tractor chassis, the A7V!<BR><BR>Next time I'm in Brisbane, I'll drop by the Queensland Museum and get<BR>Mephisto to bless your dice for you.<BR><BR>Mephisto, of course, is the last surviving A7V.&nbsp; She was abandoned after<BR>becoming bogged, and was captured by Australian troops.<BR><BR>Come to think of it, she may very well have been the only tank in Australia<BR>for some years after WW1, and maybe even up until WW2!<BR><BR>I visit her every few months, just to say hello.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:32:10 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>James Jensen<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;And any character who has the power of mind-control, Mule-style psychic<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;surgery, or whatever is going to be well-advised to be VERY subtle with <BR>&gt;&gt; This is true.&nbsp; Such a person might be feared even in the Zhodani<BR>&gt;&gt;consulate.&nbsp; Of course, it may be difficult to spot these people<BR>&gt;&gt;even if you are looking for them.&nbsp; IMTU they are rare in the<BR>&gt;&gt;extreme, requiring someone with a Mental Domination talent<BR>&gt;&gt;and a Psi of 15 (only possible IMTU for humans trained up since<BR>&gt;&gt;birth and getting regular psionic training).<BR>&gt;What if the character were to employ an Ancient artifact that would boost <BR>&gt;their Psi? (These would, of course, be even rarer.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It would have to really increase their Psi, not just provide strength<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; points, and it would have to keep their Psi high enough constantly<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for enough months for the individual to gain that many levels.&nbsp; One<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; might allow something like that, but as you say such should be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; quite rare.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3222<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2]) by air-yg03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:33:07 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:32:13 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA13384;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:31:23 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:31:11 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id JAA13342<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:31:11 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:31:11 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010261331.JAA13342@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3222<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3223<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Furries<BR>RE: Cat Molars<BR>RE: Cat Molars<BR>RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Collapsing the Vacuum<BR>Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Collapsing Vacuum<BR>Red Zones<BR>Re: Red Zones<BR>RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>UFO (was:Cylon Invasion)<BR>Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: Landgrab: Yori ... update<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: eBooks<BR>Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Going to England (OT)<BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: Heaven&amp;Earth &amp; Galactic<BR>Odd Question<BR>T.C. Harrison (very long but worth it)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:34:34 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Furries<BR><BR>In light of recent threads, I believe this rather amusing shot at the<BR>Fur-fans by Brunching was relevant. Well, I laughed anyway.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>http://www.brunching.com/features/furries.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:39:33 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cat Molars<BR><BR>GDWGAMES writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;Cats don't have molars, they're carnivores.<BR>&gt;Aren't they called carnissals in carnivores?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Yes cats are carnivores, both by classification and by habit.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This does not, however, mean that they don't have molars.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; They do.&nbsp; An adult cat normally has 30 teeth.&nbsp; On each side<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; of the upper jaw there are 3 incisors, 1 canine, 3 premolars,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and 1 small molar.&nbsp; On each side of the lower jaw there are<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3 incisors, 1 canine, 2 premolars, and 1 large molar.&nbsp; It<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; should be noted that a cat's molars do not look like ours,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; they are suited to cutting rather than crewing.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:42:02 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cat Molars<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; GDWGAMES writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Cats don't have molars, they're carnivores.<BR>&gt; &gt;Aren't they called carnissals in carnivores?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Yes cats are carnivores, both by classification and by habit.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This does not, however, mean that they don't have molars.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They do.&nbsp; An adult cat normally has 30 teeth.&nbsp; On each side<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; of the upper jaw there are 3 incisors, 1 canine, 3 premolars,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; and 1 small molar.&nbsp; On each side of the lower jaw there are<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3 incisors, 1 canine, 2 premolars, and 1 large molar.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; should be noted that a cat's molars do not look like ours,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; they are suited to cutting rather than crewing.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>I sit corrected :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>- --- Chris Seamans &lt;semo@pil.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;ObTrav: I can't think of one, and I don't want to cheese out by <BR>slapping something together at the last minute such as: The Third<BR>Imperium would likely revise history, just as Geoffrey of Monmouth did,<BR>in order to connect the new state to their own version of classical<BR>antiquity (the Rule of Man and the Ziru Sirka). That topic is already<BR>being discussed at the moment on the list, so I guess I'm a little<BR>late. Oh well.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Considering the Third Imperium is founded more than 2000 years after<BR>our own time, can you imagine the sort of legends that will have grown<BR>out of the exploits of our times?&nbsp; Especially if historical records are<BR>lost over the passage of time ...<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:07:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing the Vacuum<BR><BR>"&gt; A baking powder?<BR>Hm?"<BR><BR>Sorry, old "Wayne's World" reference there.&nbsp; If you say "A baking powder"<BR>quick and mumbly it sound sorta like "I beg yer pardon?"&nbsp; Used to express<BR>surprise.<BR><BR>"A jet of positrons is emerging from the core and colliding with ambient<BR>hydrogen gas.&nbsp; Here's a site that describes what's going on, to the extent<BR>we (think we) know:&nbsp; http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc97/5_3_97/fob1.htm"<BR><BR>Thanks for the info, I'll give it a read.<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:07:33 -0400<BR>From: "Alberti, Joe (TRANS)" &lt;Joe.Alberti@Trans.ge.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>From Ian Whitchurch<BR>&gt; This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me. The Solomani offensive<BR>&gt; should have run out of steam at or about Capital. <BR><BR>I agree.<BR>When I read Hard Times for the first time, this was one of my biggest<BR>surprises.&nbsp; The Rebellion lasted 13 years (Virus in 1130), and the<BR>Confederation was fighting divided foes.&nbsp; The Solomani seemed to have taken<BR>no more territory than they had in 1120. Even with sections of the<BR>population against the war and many High Population worlds to garrison, the<BR>Solomani should have done better.&nbsp; Once the Black War started and Lucan<BR>started blasting worlds with nuclear weapons, the Solomani would have an<BR>example to follow.&nbsp; High population worlds under siege would be prime<BR>candidates for bombarment.<BR><BR>I am guessing the one of the reasons why the Solomani did so poorly is that<BR>their military commanders were&nbsp; more politicians than strategists.&nbsp; With a<BR>weakened and divided foe, a full industrial base to support them, and a<BR>secure border with the Hivers and rimward, they should have done better.<BR>Another cause could be the Confederation government is terribly inefficient<BR>and full of political infighting and extreme factionalism. The only<BR>references I have on the Confederation government are the Rebellion<BR>Sourcebook and the Traveller Solomani Alien Module. <BR><BR>Maybe SolSec struck a secret deal with Lucan or just maybe the Solomani are<BR>not the supermen they say they are. <BR><BR>Joe Alberti<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:09:27 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Collapsing Vacuum<BR><BR>I hate to be so sad, but what Hawking used was the Lambda 'constant'<BR>from the General Theory of Relativity as a sort of measure of the<BR>energy content of the vacuum to give an approximation of the matter<BR>condensation from stress placed on the vacuum by the singularity<BR>itself. It is that condensation at the singularity boundary that gives<BR>rise to the virtual particles (the energy and mass of which can be<BR>determined based on the Lambda value) and from there to calculate the<BR>effective rate of evaporation of the singularity due to the escape of<BR>a proportion of the virtual particles from the boundary.<BR><BR>What he actually missed was that Lambda itself is, by implication, not<BR>constant and changes in its value will inevitably result in the<BR>condensation of matter and reduction in the speed of light or the<BR>re-absorption of matter and increase in the speed of light. There's a<BR>lot of work being done on that theory at the moment, since it rather<BR>dramatically shakes up our understanding of physics both at the<BR>astrophysical and quantuum level.<BR><BR>Now isn't that so sad - but I do find it interesting.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Luther Martin<BR>&gt; Sent: 26 October 2000 05:10<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Collapsing Vacuum<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Charles Collin wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; "My understanding is that Hawking's work on the subject<BR>&gt; did not use<BR>&gt; &gt; perturbation theory, but rather used some other obscure<BR>&gt; mathematical<BR>&gt; &gt; technique whose name I can't remember. I think that the<BR>&gt; virtual particle"<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; You're not thinking of Penrose's topological methods, are<BR>&gt; you?&nbsp; I'm pretty<BR>&gt; &gt; sure Hawking used those for cosmological theories (the<BR>&gt; universe as finite<BR>&gt; &gt; but w/out boundaries and all that...).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was some name I can't<BR>&gt; pronounce, and I<BR>&gt; can pronounce Penrose just fine. There must be someone on<BR>&gt; the TML who has<BR>&gt; either read Hawking's paper or gone to a seminar of some<BR>&gt; sort where it was<BR>&gt; discussed fairly recently.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:05:00 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Red Zones<BR><BR>Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to go <BR>through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions of <BR>forms, etc.?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #17<BR><BR>"Let me get this straight," Melissa said, "You want me to tamper with the <BR>lock on a crate of cargo because you have some half-brained idea that <BR>there's something illegal in it?"<BR><BR>"That's about the sum of it,"&nbsp; Harrison said. "So, will you do it?"<BR><BR>"Let me think it over," Melissa replied. She paused for a second, then said, <BR>"No."<BR><BR>"Why not?"<BR><BR>"Captain Rokodo told me you might ask me about this," Melissa said, "He said <BR>that if I did he would fire me."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:18:48 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red Zones<BR><BR>Well, yes and no. It depends on the planet. Just saying "g'way! I van't to<BR>be alone" won't cause the IN to take up station around you to keep people<BR>away. OTOH, if you're some high ranking noble's garden world playground,<BR>yes, it can be done.<BR><BR>OTOH, it could be very easy to pull a 'China and the Barbarians' and limit<BR>offworld contact to a small starport. If you're not trading with the<BR>outside world, the starport's gonna be small anyway, and insignificant.<BR><BR>That'll effectively redzone you, since no one will want to go there<BR>anyway.<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR><BR>On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to go <BR>&gt; through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions of <BR>&gt; forms, etc.?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -J. Jensen<BR>&gt; ========================================<BR>&gt; "It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>&gt; reaction.'"<BR>&gt; -Rev Bem<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ========================================<BR>&gt; The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>&gt; -Installment #17<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Let me get this straight," Melissa said, "You want me to tamper with the <BR>&gt; lock on a crate of cargo because you have some half-brained idea that <BR>&gt; there's something illegal in it?"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "That's about the sum of it,"&nbsp; Harrison said. "So, will you do it?"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Let me think it over," Melissa replied. She paused for a second, then said, <BR>&gt; "No."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Why not?"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Captain Rokodo told me you might ask me about this," Melissa said, "He said <BR>&gt; that if I did he would fire me."<BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>&gt; http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:35:20 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; The only two sources of micro-scale TL 5 vehicles I have found <BR>&gt;&gt; are Scotia and Irregular. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Do Ros/Heroics and GHQ no longer manufacture WWI/WWII vehicles&nbsp; ?<BR><BR>&nbsp; I was told not (IIRC) by the serious collector in our group.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:53:17 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: UFO (was:Cylon Invasion)<BR><BR>Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; yeah but I do miss "UFO"...:-(<BR>&gt; Oh, I loved that show. With its funny sound effects, the<BR>&gt; interceptors that had only one shot, the moonbase, where all<BR>&gt; the female ops had purple hair...<BR>&gt; Got to get it back on TV!<BR><BR>It is available on video ... just been re-released.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:54:49 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR><BR>- --- In entropic_worlds@egroups.com, "Eric T. Holmes" &lt;eholmes@l...&gt; wrote:<BR>Fellow Travellers:<BR><BR>- --- In entropic_worlds@egroups.com, olegamer... wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I received word today off the Iron Crown Mailing List that that <BR>company is also filing for chapter 7 bankruptcy. ICE is biting the <BR>dust.&nbsp; &lt;<BR><BR>Well, my take on ICE's failure, they neglected the reason they <BR>were created, and their primary product, the Iron Crown line of<BR>Middle Earth Modules.&nbsp; Instead of pushing this line and creating the <BR>product most people wanted and _collected_, they pushed through the<BR>proverbial "better mousetrap" in rules and lost a followership.&nbsp; The <BR>1st Ed. rules were fine the way they were.&nbsp; What they needed to<BR>create and continue were the modules, and they had several "layers"<BR>of modules.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I think we as Traveller players, whether CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT or T2300 <BR>need to stress to Marc Miller, Loren Wiseman and Steve Jackson, is<BR>the need to keep the rules simple (that's how you attract new<BR>players, create modules that run the gambit of simple "one-off" to <BR>campaign style, and continue the what I call the "informational <BR>supplements" like _Behind the Claw_ and the _Alien Races Series_.<BR><BR>Could one of you forward this to the TML for me since my server here <BR>at LANL won't let my outgoing TML mail go through?&nbsp; I think it's <BR>important enough that the afore mentioned individuals see this <BR>comment.<BR><BR><BR>Eric<BR>- --- End forwarded message ---<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:33:32 -0700<BR>From: Cliff Linehan &lt;clinehan@sfamipec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:12:35 +0100 From: "Jones, Dean"<BR>&lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This is true.&nbsp; Such a person might be feared even <BR>&gt;&gt; in the Zhodani<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; consulate.&nbsp; Of course, it may be difficult to spot <BR>&gt;&gt; these people<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; even if you are looking for them.&nbsp; IMTU they are rare in the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; extreme, requiring someone with a Mental Domination talent<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; and a Psi of 15 (only possible IMTU for humans <BR>&gt;&gt; trained up since<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; birth and getting regular psionic training).<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Peez<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; What if the character were to employ an Ancient artifact that <BR>&gt;&gt; would boost <BR>&gt;&gt; their Psi? (These would, of course, be even rarer.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ancient artifacts can justify pretty much anything.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dean<BR><BR>A good example of a PSI boosting artifact would be the Lens from Lensmen.<BR>If you can find it, there is a out of print GURPS:Lensmen<BR>The lens is described as boosting PSI about ten times normal.<BR><BR>Clifford Linehan<BR>http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:34:59 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Landgrab: Yori ... update<BR><BR>Peter Trevor wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The next piece of the Yori jigsaw is ready: at the bottom of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; Yori main page you'll see a link to the Army.&nbsp; This describes the<BR>&gt; organisational structure and equipment of&nbsp; Yori's&nbsp; 100&nbsp; battalion<BR>&gt; army including some TL13 vehicles.&nbsp; Hopefully&nbsp; the&nbsp; mil-heads&nbsp; of<BR>&gt; this list wont find it all too outrageous.&nbsp; Feedback?<BR><BR>The bit about the Undersea is excellent. If any place ever demanded to be<BR>explored, this is it.<BR><BR>I'm not sure about the Delgado GR-402S Gauss LAG, with _twice_ the muzzle<BR>velocity of a typical Gauss weapon. That's a huge difference. With twice the<BR>muzzle velocity, it should be an _extremely_ deadly weapon.<BR><BR>The description of the cities is extremely useful, as is the description of<BR>trade.<BR><BR>The Scarland battallions are designed for use in plains areas, but are very<BR>infantry-heavy. If the terrain is more open, armor rules.<BR><BR>Overall, an excellent bit of work.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:38:27 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Ancient artifacts can justify pretty much anything.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Dean<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A good example of a PSI boosting artifact would be the Lens <BR>&gt; from Lensmen.<BR>&gt; If you can find it, there is a out of print GURPS:Lensmen<BR>&gt; The lens is described as boosting PSI about ten times normal.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Alternately, there's a Psionic Crystal Thingy (can't remember the name) in<BR>G:Psionics , which IS in print. It ain't the same, but that's OK because<BR>Lensman is WAAAY hig points.<BR><BR>For non-gurpser: <BR>Typical Traveller Character: 100-150 points<BR>'Realistic' Superhero(eg WildCards, Aberrant): 250<BR>4-colour Super: 500<BR>Superman: 1000<BR>Kim Kinnison: 1500<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:50:37 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Alberti, Joe (TRANS) wrote:<BR>[about the ineffiency of Solomani military during and afer Hard Times]<BR>&gt; Maybe SolSec struck a secret deal with Lucan or just maybe the Solomani are<BR>&gt; not the supermen they say they are. <BR><BR>Well, how does it seem right now?<BR><BR>We have a moderate TL planet, enough resources for all (though not if<BR>everybody was to have living standards of Western world), population level<BR>of 9, at least nominally breathable atmosphere, and we have had means of<BR>solving international disputes for over a hunded years.<BR><BR>And still, most of our energy goes into bickering and slaughtering, and we<BR>have not yet sent humans to even other planets. No world government, no<BR>space colonization programs, just weapon and drug trade.<BR><BR>No, we Solomani are not the supermen we say we are.<BR><BR>(Add smileys where applicable. B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:51:02 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: eBooks<BR><BR>At 9:31 -0400 26/10/00, "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Dom, don't be miffed: I didn't suggest _you_ were in any way a pirate,<BR>&gt;just that some of the ebook sites are a bit (shall we say) of dubious<BR>&gt;legality. One of the people clobbered by one of them has been Carolyn<BR>&gt;(yeah, I did know that's her name - I just use Carol 'cos its shorter)<BR>&gt;so I was just forewarning people that they may need to take some of<BR>&gt;the sites with caution. No offence, I hope - none at all intended.<BR><BR>None taken.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:45:26 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 23:56 -0400 25/10/00, "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfre wrote:<BR>&gt;I'm actually optimistic about the speed at which the remants of the 3I could<BR>&gt;recover, once the war stopped.<BR><BR>I agree - Hard Times (and the associated scenarios) all have a strong <BR>feeling of hope running through. A very different feel to either TNE <BR>or Milieu 0's rebirths. It is that 'lighting a candle 'gainst the <BR>night' thing.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; FWIW Old Expanses was annexed by the Solomani - at the sector Duke's<BR>&gt; &gt; requests - by 350-1117.<BR>&gt; &gt; (Survival Margin)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me. The Solomani offensive<BR>&gt;should have run out of steam at or about Capital. I am reminded of a quote<BR>&gt;from the time of the Wars of Religion in France "They would take the Grand<BR>&gt;Turk as King, as long as he would bring peace".<BR><BR>Agreed - a functioning TL14/15 society, with the biggest industrial <BR>base in Known Space should have just agreed a peace treaty with the <BR>Vegans, and carried on into the core.<BR><BR>I seem to remember that the DGP material suggested political <BR>infighting causing the ceasation of the Solomani offensive.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:37:24 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>At 23:56 -0400 25/10/00, Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;And what is it likely to be in late January?<BR>&gt;I'm headed to Prague for a wedding and was thinking<BR>&gt;of dropping into London for a few days on the way<BR>&gt;out.<BR><BR>Wet and cold<BR><BR>or<BR><BR>Dry and cold<BR><BR>we're in the 6 month night then :-)<BR><BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:54:37 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: SD Mooney [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 26 October 2000 18:37<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Going to England (OT)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 23:56 -0400 25/10/00, Steve Daniels <BR>&gt; &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;And what is it likely to be in late January?<BR>&gt; &gt;I'm headed to Prague for a wedding and was thinking<BR>&gt; &gt;of dropping into London for a few days on the way<BR>&gt; &gt;out.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Wet and cold<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; or<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dry and cold<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; we're in the 6 month night then :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Yeah, it's a maintenance requirement for the Sky Dome:- the lights get shut<BR>off. :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:34:50 +0100<BR>From: "Stuart Ferris" &lt;stuart.ferris@virgin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Heaven&amp;Earth &amp; Galactic<BR><BR>&gt;Got my new computer today and was finally able to use Heaven &amp;<BR>&gt;Earth.&nbsp; I'm vastly impressed, that program is seriously cool!!!<BR><BR>Many thanks, glad you like my program.<BR><BR>&gt;I do have one question, is it compatible with Jim Vassilakos'<BR>&gt;wonderful sector mapper Galactic 2.4?&nbsp; If nothing else, can you<BR>&gt;load all those lovely sectors from Galactic into Heaven &amp; Earth.&nbsp; If<BR>&gt;so, perhaps some kind soul could explain how to do so in simple<BR>&gt;terms (a programmer, I'm not).<BR><BR>Galactic compatibility is limited at the moment to being able to import SEC<BR>files created by Galactic.<BR><BR>I am looking into adding support for SAR files in the near future.<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris<BR>stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:50:38 -0500<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Odd Question<BR><BR>Here's somehing that will no doubt stir huge debate (almost everything I<BR>ask does).<BR><BR>Each domain has an order or knighthood associated with it (Order of Sylea,<BR>etc). I want to rank these in order of seniority, so that the knight<BR>companions of ther Order of Sylea can sit higher at the table than the<BR>Knights of Sol or whatever.<BR><BR>Ideally, it should be the order in which the domains were created, but<BR>departing from strict adherance to that sequence for political reasons.<BR><BR>Sylea should be #1, of course. Deneb was created last, so it is #7, and<BR>Illiesh (sic?) is #6.<BR><BR>I nominate Vland for #2, Antares for 3, Sol for 4 and Gateway for 5.<BR><BR>Opinions? I am pretty much settled on positions 1, 2, 6, and 7. I will<BR>consider suggestions for the position of 3 to 5.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:45:19 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: T.C. Harrison (very long but worth it)<BR><BR>It's the end of an era. The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison, began on October <BR>23/24 (depending on timezone), is now coming to a close.<BR><BR>Mikko V.I. Parviainen has brought to my attention that my signature (which <BR>includes the Chronicles) is far too long and has requested it too be <BR>shortened. According to the TML FAQ rules of ettiquete, he is correct. And <BR>so, I will no longer be attaching the Chronicles to my posts.<BR><BR>This is Installment #18, the longest one yet. It brings the chronicles to an <BR>end by resolving the current situation faced by the characters.<BR><BR>So, unless there is considerable demand for their return, this the end. Say <BR>goodbye.<BR><BR>Before we get on with the last installment, I would like to take a moment to <BR>explain what I had wanted to do with this serial. For those not interested, <BR>please scroll on down.<BR><BR>While a could keep TC on as a daily or weekly series, with longer <BR>installments than currently posted, I feel that this would be too conducive <BR>to the practice of displaying TC as just a hero. I want to tell about TC the <BR>(fictional) person. To me, he's a person first and a hero second.<BR><BR>Early on in the story, I used an Episode/Scene format, which I did away <BR>with. I did this because I didn't want the story to be bundled in neat <BR>little packages. I wanted it to be continuous. I wanted it to tell of TC's <BR>continuing life, not just the times that he did great things.<BR><BR>But, enough of this. Your probably more interested in just reading the darn <BR>thing, so, without further interruption:<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR>========================================<BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison<BR>- -Installment #18: "The End"<BR><BR>With less than five hours until the EijAnr left jumpspace, Harrison could <BR>only pace nervously around his quarters. Something was wrong. He could feel <BR>it. He had felt it from the beginning.<BR><BR>Why wouldn't Rokodo let him open that crate? Something was in that crate <BR>that shouldn't have been there! He just knew it! But Melissa couldn't help <BR>him because Rokodo had threatened to fire him. Zacc would do it, but he <BR>probably couldn't. And the only passenger on board was Baron Walk, and even <BR>if he could have helped, Harrison didn't want to see him again, let alone <BR>ask for anything from him.<BR><BR>The situation was driving Harrison crazy! In desperation, an idea came to <BR>him. He grabbed his pistol and hid it inside his uniform. If he couldn't <BR>open the lock subtly, he'd force it open!<BR><BR>He sneaked down to the cargo bay, locking the door behind him. He headed <BR>toward the crate.<BR><BR>Suddenly, something caught Harrison's eye. On the other end of the bay, <BR>something could be seen leaning over another crate. Someone was in there <BR>with him!<BR><BR>Just then, the figure turned around. It was Baron Walk. Shocked, Harrison <BR>cried, "What are you doing here?" He grabbed for his pistol.<BR><BR>Walk closed the crate (it was not until then that Harrison realized that it <BR>had been open). "Just looking for a few of my belongings," he said.<BR><BR>Harrison began walking toward the Baron. "In other people's crates?" he <BR>asked. He managed to retrieve the pistol.<BR><BR>The Baron whipped out his own pistol. "I never wanted to do this, boy," he <BR>hissed, "but I'm afraid that you know too much." He fired, just missing <BR>Harrison's ear.<BR><BR>Harrison returned fire. His shot hit the Baron's chest, causing him to <BR>collapse. Harrison could tell that he wasn't dead and quickly retrieved the <BR>gun. He pointed it at the Baron's head. He could finish it right now.<BR><BR>Harrison's conscience got the better of him, though, and he put the gun <BR>away. That didn't stop him from hitting the man - hard.<BR><BR>Harrison opened the crate that the Baron had been examining a moment <BR>earlier. It was cold, just like the one he had intended to open. Inside were <BR>large glass tubes. Inside them were human hearts.<BR><BR>Harrison ran to the first crate and blasted it open. This one had livers. A <BR>third crate contained lungs.<BR><BR>"Captain Rokodo!" Harrison screamed into his comm. "I'm in the cargo bay. <BR>Come quickly!"<BR><BR>Rokodo arrived within minutes. "What's the meaning of this?" he yelled, <BR>furious.<BR><BR>Harrison was frantic. "Over here!" he cried, "You've got to see this!"<BR><BR>Rokodo tramped over to the crate and peered inside. He drew a gun from his <BR>belt. "I'm afraid I have to kill you now," he said.<BR><BR>"What?" Harrison screamed, "Why?"<BR><BR>"Never you mind!" Rokodo said. He fired, hitting Harrison square in the <BR>shoulder of his gun arm. Harrison's gun hit the floor along with him.<BR><BR>Though reelimg with pain, Harrison was still conscious. He grabbed the gun <BR>with his left hand.<BR><BR>Rokodo fired again, but Harrison managed to kick him in the knees just <BR>before he pulled the trigger, tripping him and causing him to hit the ground <BR>and his shot to hit the ceiling.<BR><BR>Harrison fired at Rokodo's gun, but his aim was off. Fortunately, it was off <BR>in a good way, and the shot hit Rokodo's forearm, causing him to drop the <BR>weapon anyway. Harrison slapped it away.<BR><BR>Shaking, Harrison stood. He shot Rokodo once more, this time in the leg. The <BR>man stopped moving.<BR><BR>Harrison managed to climb onto the main deck before he collapsed and lost <BR>conciousness.<BR><BR>When Harrison woke, he noticed that he wasn't on the EijAnr anymore. He was <BR>in a hospital. He sat up. His shoulder still ached, but it was bearable at <BR>least.<BR><BR>He sat there for a while, lost in thought. What had happened? Somehow, he <BR>had survived, but how? Just then, Zacc and Melissa entered. Harrison could <BR>see that they were surprised that he was awake.<BR><BR>"How are you feeling?" Melissa asked. By now they were both hovering over <BR>him.<BR><BR>"I've been better," Harrison said, "What happened?"<BR><BR>Zacc answered. "We found you before Rokodo did. Turns out he and Baron Walk <BR>were smuggling organs for Ine Givar. Both of 'em are in jail now, just so <BR>you know. You're a real hero, man!"<BR><BR>"And," said Melissa, "as the new owner and senior officer of the EijAnr, I <BR>hereby bestow unto you a commission and the rank of Fourth Officer."<BR><BR>Harrison smiled and laid back down. "Thanks," he said, laughing.<BR><BR>*****THE END*****<BR><BR>(If you enjoyed the Chronicles of T.C. Harrison and would like for the <BR>tradition to remain alive, contact me at cheeb0@hotmail.com. If there is <BR>enough support, I will continue the story. Thank you.)<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3223<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb03.mx.aol.com (rly-yb03.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.3]) by air-yb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:55:13 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:53:26 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA44525;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:46:14 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:45:53 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA44479<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:45:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:45:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010261945.PAA44479@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3223<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3224<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: On to the far future<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: Heaven&amp;Earth &amp; Galactic<BR>Re: Vegan naval forces<BR>ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: Capitals<BR>Re: Furries<BR>RE: Red Zones<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>RE: Red Zones<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: Red Zones<BR>Re: T.C. Harrison (very long but worth it)<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: On to the far future<BR>re: Red Zones<BR>re: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR>Books that survived...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:55:32 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On to the far future<BR><BR>Rupert Boleyn writes:<BR>&gt;It's one of the things that's always bugged me, too. I can't see how the <BR>&gt;Solomani couldn't have taken Daibei, the Solomani Rim (all of it) and all of <BR>&gt;Diaspora, as well as what canon says they got before their initial advance <BR>&gt;stalled. Later on they could only do better, as of all the involved factions <BR>&gt;they had by far the biggest safe, and it was _all_ out of raiding/black war <BR>&gt;strike range of everyone else.<BR><BR>The Solomani had their doves as well as their hawks, and each group contained<BR>many different sub-groups. My take is that once the Solomani had recaptured the<BR>territory of the original Solomani Autonomous Region, many semi-hawks were<BR>satisfied. The more extreme hawks simply didn't have enough political support<BR>to pursue the fight beyond that. <BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:02:45 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Here's somehing that will no doubt stir huge debate (almost everything I<BR>&gt; ask does).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Each domain has an order or knighthood associated with it (Order of Sylea,<BR>&gt; etc). I want to rank these in order of seniority, so that the knight<BR>&gt; companions of ther Order of Sylea can sit higher at the table than the<BR>&gt; Knights of Sol or whatever.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ideally, it should be the order in which the domains were created, but<BR>&gt; departing from strict adherance to that sequence for political reasons.<BR><BR>Y'know, Loren, there was a damn good reason Aurthur used a _round_<BR>table!<BR><BR>&gt; Sylea should be #1, of course. Deneb was created last, so it is #7, and<BR>&gt; Illiesh (sic?) is #6.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I nominate Vland for #2, Antares for 3, Sol for 4 and Gateway for 5.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Opinions? I am pretty much settled on positions 1, 2, 6, and 7. I will<BR>&gt; consider suggestions for the position of 3 to 5.<BR><BR>The only change I'd make there is switch Antares for Sol, reflecting the<BR>Solomani influence on court. (in fact, I bet Vland only went to the<BR>second spot when what's her name married the Vilani guy to start<BR>breaking the Solomani influence onf the throne.)<BR><BR>The other change would be that the home domain be seated last, in a<BR>symbolic gesture of the humility of the 'host' knightly order. At Core,<BR>in the Emperor's Court, this position would be filled by whatever domain<BR>was providing the Court Honor Guard, so that the Emperor is not seen as<BR>treating his knights in an unfair fashion. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:05:12 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Heaven&amp;Earth &amp; Galactic<BR><BR>"Stuart Ferris" &lt;stuart.ferris@virgin.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Got my new computer today and was finally able to use Heaven &amp;<BR>&gt; &gt;Earth.&nbsp; I'm vastly impressed, that program is seriously cool!!!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Many thanks, glad you like my program.<BR><BR>It's extremely impressive, especially the maps.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;I do have one question, is it compatible with Jim Vassilakos'<BR>&gt; &gt;wonderful sector mapper Galactic 2.4?&nbsp; If nothing else, can you<BR>&gt; &gt;load all those lovely sectors from Galactic into Heaven &amp; Earth.&nbsp; If<BR>&gt; &gt;so, perhaps some kind soul could explain how to do so in simple terms<BR>&gt; &gt;(a programmer, I'm not).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Galactic compatibility is limited at the moment to being able to<BR>&gt; import SEC files created by Galactic.<BR><BR>What's and SEC file?&nbsp; All the files in galactic I see are either text <BR>files or end in .mnu or .dat&nbsp; What is a SEC file and what does one <BR>do with it in Heaven &amp; Earth?<BR><BR>Many Thanks-<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:09:30 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Vegan naval forces<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;[Bob Kovalchick:]<BR>&gt;&gt;I don't think the VAZ is to keep the Solomani in line militarily. The VAZ<BR>&gt;&gt;is more likely an economic influence in the region, and a base of operations<BR>&gt;&gt;for the Imperials.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That was actually my original thought. However, the inferred military<BR>&gt;effectiveness from Survival Margin (The Imperial Fleets retreat to the VAZ<BR>&gt;and link up with their forces. The admiralty seems to consider them an<BR>&gt;effective force. pg. 12) and GT describes massive fleet support and ship<BR>&gt;building resources in the VAZ. I think they must maintain a strength equal<BR>&gt;to one numbered fleet.<BR><BR>(I'm using GT figures, but CT figures are not too different.)<BR><BR>Muan Gwi has a population of 41 billion and a GTL of 12. That gives it a GWP<BR>of 615 trillion credits. If it spends just 1% of its GWP on its own military<BR>(that is, over and above what it pays to the Imperium), it'll have a military<BR>budget of 6.15 trillion. Now, 40% of that would supposedly go to the ground<BR>forces, leaving 3.7 trillion for the planetary navy. This would fund a navy<BR>worth 37 trillion credits or roughly 8 average Imperial fleets[*]. A lot of<BR>that would be spent on the system defenses, but the Muan Gwi navy could still<BR>have enough jump-capable ships to be a very significant power factor. And<BR>since 1% is the minimum military expenditure for the Imperium, the Muan Gwi<BR>budget could be a lot bigger. The average military expenditure for the<BR>Imperium is said to be 3% and with Muan Gwi located relatively close to the<BR>Solomani Confederation, its expenditures could easily be _above_ average. Add<BR>to that the starships of the other high-population Vegan worlds and somehow<BR>it isn't so surprising that the Vegan Autonomous District turned out to be<BR>too tough for the Solomani Confederation to digest.<BR><BR>[*] The size of an average Imperial fleet (TCr4.5) is not canonical. It is<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; an estimate of mine based on canonical data but containing various<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; assumptions that you may not consider valid.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:18:54 -0500<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR>These just arrived and will be up and available through warehouse 23 very<BR>soon (like tonight maybe). They are limited edition, and are for the Regina<BR>Brubek's. When these are gone, there will be no more (when we do another<BR>run of Brubek's shirts, they will be for another location), so if you want<BR>one, act quickly.<BR><BR>Watch the Daily Illuminator and check Warehouse 23<BR>(http://www.warehouse23.com/) for price, sizes, and so on.<BR><BR>If you aren't interested in Brubek's merchandise, ignore this message<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:17:40 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:50:38 -0500<BR>&gt;From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Odd Question<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Here's somehing that will no doubt stir huge debate (almost everything I<BR>&gt;ask does).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Each domain has an order or knighthood associated with it (Order of Sylea,<BR>&gt;etc). I want to rank these in order of seniority, so that the knight<BR>&gt;companions of ther Order of Sylea can sit higher at the table than the<BR>&gt;Knights of Sol or whatever.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ideally, it should be the order in which the domains were created, but<BR>&gt;departing from strict adherance to that sequence for political reasons.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sylea should be #1, of course. Deneb was created last, so it is #7, and<BR>&gt;Illiesh (sic?) is #6.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I nominate Vland for #2, Antares for 3, Sol for 4 and Gateway for 5.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Opinions? I am pretty much settled on positions 1, 2, 6, and 7. I will<BR>&gt;consider suggestions for the position of 3 to 5.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>I would say that those positions could very well be in a constant state of <BR>flux.&nbsp; In fact, it could be the basis of numerous court intrigues.&nbsp; (Nobles <BR>don't have much else to do in their spare time... =)<BR><BR>I can see the Knights of Sol slipping down as the Solomani faction fell out <BR>of favor at the court, then as the Solomani Rim War began, you'd see it <BR>either descend even further in the social strata, or go upwards as 'heroic <BR>noble Imperial defenders' fought the Solomani.<BR><BR>The positions of the others would vary as events ebbed and flowed in their <BR>sectors.&nbsp; A stalwart defense against the ihatei could result in Daibei's <BR>order increasing slightly; significant losses to Vargr corsairs could see <BR>the Knight Companions of Antares sit a bit lower on the social rungs.&nbsp; In <BR>fact, I can perhaps see, once and once only, the Emperor inviting the <BR>Knights of the Order of Deneb to sit high at the table (if it were a <BR>banquet) following the 5FW.&nbsp; But only for one night.<BR><BR>For Strephon's time, I would say the order you have is a good one, Loren, <BR>but some meeble saying that the social positions waxed and waned (perhaps <BR>even, in some part, tied in with the social standing of the order's Grand <BR>Master?) depending on the favor and whim of the Court, and current events, <BR>could have something to do with that positioning.<BR><BR>Just my two centavos. =)&nbsp; Cheers!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:22:58 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Capitals<BR><BR>Dan Lanewrites:<BR>&gt;When did Norris' archducality become effective.&nbsp; At the time he became<BR>&gt;Archduke, perhaps Delphine became the sector duchess.&nbsp; I somehow think that<BR>&gt;the official timeline doesn't support this.<BR><BR>With the exception of one reference to Regina being the sector capital, all<BR>references support the view that Delphine was sector duchess before and after<BR>Norris became archduke. IMO Mora has been the sector capital for as long as the<BR>Marches has been governed independently of Deneb and the above-mentioned<BR>reference is a mistake. YMMV.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:36:46 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Furries<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:34:34 +0100<BR>&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Furries<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In light of recent threads, I believe this rather amusing shot at the<BR>&gt;Fur-fans by Brunching was relevant. Well, I laughed anyway.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dean<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://www.brunching.com/features/furries.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>I think most furries have been up in arms about the 'image' of furry fandom <BR>ever since Wired called -all- furries 'furverts.'&nbsp; Another stellar piece of <BR>journalism by that intrepid and sound paragon of journalism, Wired!&nbsp; (Wired <BR>were also the ones who did a huge article/cover story on the Extropians, <BR>never mind the fact that at the time the Extropians numbered less than <BR>fifteen people and their main claim to fame was having Romana Macchadio(sp) <BR>among their number.)<BR><BR>Remember what I was saying about furry fandom running the gamut?&nbsp; I found <BR>it interesting that Burned Fur was mentioned in that article.&nbsp; Every genre <BR>of SF&amp;F fandom has all different flavors.&nbsp; Even Burned Fur is a faction in <BR>all this; furry fandom probably has as many flavors and factions (I'm <BR>wearing out my 'f' key, here) as any other genre, and correlations can be <BR>made easilly.<BR><BR>And if the Trek fans still point fingers and laugh at the furries, one can <BR>always remind them of such things as where 'slash' stories originated from, <BR>and the eternal classic fanfic, 'The Secret Logs of Mistress Janeway.'[1] =)<BR><BR>As for me, I laughed at the article too. =) (The Burned Fur site just made <BR>me sad.)&nbsp; Then again, I've never had anyone walk up to me and call me a <BR>sku-- uhm, a colorful metaphor related to furriness.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Sorry, for once I'm at a loss.&nbsp; Though... hmm, we know xenophiles <BR>exist in Larry' Niven's Known Space, think that in the OTU or IYTU there <BR>might be bands of human Vargr groupies? (vargies? Better not say that in <BR>hearing distance of the Kfouruzeng!) or even the other way around, Human <BR>groupies?&nbsp; Would they be called 'humies?'<BR><BR>[1] For anyone curious, this was mentioned in the movie 'Trekkies.'&nbsp; I've <BR>yet to see a movie called 'Furries,' which leads me to believe that most <BR>people couldn't give a harpsichord about furry fandom. =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:45:03 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Red Zones<BR><BR>James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt;Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to go <BR>&gt;through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions of <BR>&gt;forms, etc.?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I would have thought that if a world does not want any visitors it<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; would not join the Imperium.&nbsp; If it did join, I would expect that the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Imperium would not "grant" Red Zone status to any world just<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; because the world requested it.&nbsp; The Imperium is about trade, and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; there is no trade with Red Zoned worlds.&nbsp; The Imperium would<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; noly Red Zone a world (IMTU) when such suited their purposes.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If a world seriously interfered with trade (harrassed merchants,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; etc.), the Imperium would send in an IN negotiating squadron.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The best the world could do is make it difficult and even<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dangerous to leave the starport, earning an Amber Zone rating.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:49:13 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>Cliff Linehan writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even if you are looking for them.&nbsp; IMTU they are rare in the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;extreme, requiring someone with a Mental Domination talent<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;and a Psi of 15 (only possible IMTU for humans trained up<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;since birth and getting regular psionic training).<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;What if the character were to employ an Ancient artifact that <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;would boost their Psi? (These would, of course, be even rarer.)<BR>&gt;&gt;Ancient artifacts can justify pretty much anything.<BR>&gt;A good example of a PSI boosting artifact would be the Lens from<BR>&gt;Lensmen.<BR>&gt;If you can find it, there is a out of print GURPS:Lensmen<BR>&gt;The lens is described as boosting PSI about ten times normal.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; That would be scarey.&nbsp; Given the range of abilities associated<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with Psi 1-11, Psi of 10-150 would make some folks minor<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dieties.&nbsp; Don't do this unless you want such people to have a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; major influence on your TU.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:48:30 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sylea should be #1, of course. Deneb was created last, so it is #7, and<BR>&gt;Illiesh (sic?) is #6.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I nominate Vland for #2, Antares for 3, Sol for 4 and Gateway for 5.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Opinions? I am pretty much settled on positions 1, 2, 6, and 7. I will<BR>&gt;consider suggestions for the position of 3 to 5.<BR><BR>Id put Sol last, because of the rebellious nature of the sector. YMMV, though!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:11:37 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Red Zones<BR><BR>On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>&gt; James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to <BR>&gt; &gt;go through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions<BR>&gt; &gt;of forms, etc.?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I would have thought that if a world does not want any visitors it<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; would not join the Imperium.&nbsp; If it did join, I would expect that <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the Imperium would not "grant" Red Zone status to any world just<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; because the world requested it.&nbsp; The Imperium is about trade, and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; there is no trade with Red Zoned worlds.&nbsp; The Imperium would<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; noly Red Zone a world (IMTU) when such suited their purposes.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If a world seriously interfered with trade (harrassed merchants,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; etc.), the Imperium would send in an IN negotiating squadron.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The best the world could do is make it difficult and even<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; dangerous to leave the starport, earning an Amber Zone rating.<BR><BR>The Imperium is about trade, yes, but Space is Big, and if the rabidly<BR>xenophobic inhabitants of one planet aren't willing to sell you their<BR>genuine unobtainium alloy sprockets (because you're a hopelessly unclean<BR>heathen off-worlder) there are probably three or four other planets whose<BR>more outgoing inhabitants would be happy to do so.&nbsp; Fighting wars and<BR>dealing with terrorists ("off-worlders go home!") is expensive, and makes<BR>the Imperium look like a bully even when those xenophobes really *are*<BR>just begging for a lesson in courtesy and tolerance ("the megacorporations<BR>and the Imperial Marines did *them* in -- *we* could be next!"), so unless<BR>the *only* other source of genuine unobtainium alloy sprockets is three<BR>sectors away and Somebody Important *really* needs a nearby source, it's<BR>probably cheaper and easier to just Red Zone those stupid xenophobes and<BR>buy from somebody else.<BR><BR>This isn't "Star Trek," where the universe is just *packed* with planets<BR>which are the *sole* sources of this or that...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:23:36 EDT<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>&gt;Sylea should be #1, of course. Deneb was created last,<BR>&gt;so it is #7, and Illiesh (sic?) is #6.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I nominate Vland for #2, Antares for 3, Sol for 4 and<BR>&gt;Gateway for 5.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Opinions? I am pretty much settled on positions 1, 2,<BR>&gt;6, and 7. I will consider suggestions for the position<BR>&gt;of 3 to 5.<BR><BR>I would suggest Antares, Gateway, and then Sol.&nbsp; Canon<BR>seems to suggest (and we pushed this notion in RIM OF<BR>FIRE) that the incorporation of the rimward fringes<BR>was slow and wasn't fully completed until almost the<BR>Civil War era.&nbsp; That suggests that the Domain of Sol<BR>was a very late construction.<BR><BR>- ---<BR>Jon<BR>JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>jon.zeigler@raba.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:57:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: AuricTech Shipyards &lt;aurictech@esweeet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>I would put Sol at #3 currently, as an additional reward to those Imperial nobles sent to pacify the worlds that were formerly under Solomani domination.&nbsp; Under this theory, Sol would probably have been demoted to the least precedence during the period leading up to Empress Margaret's revocation of the SAR's charter, as punishment for Solomani excesses.<BR><BR>Similarly, Ilelish (I hope I spelled that correctly!) would lose precedence, if Dulinor was as seditious in the GTU as in MT.<BR><BR>==<BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________________<BR>Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR><BR><BR>Half.com the hottest site for DVDs, CDs &amp; more! Get $5 off your 1st<BR>purchase of $10 or more. http://ads.adflight.com/mach1.asp?a=19061&amp;b=46867&amp;c=3094<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:02:02 -0500<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red Zones<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to go<BR>&gt; &gt;through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions of<BR>&gt; &gt;forms, etc.?<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I would have thought that if a world does not want any visitors it<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; would not join the Imperium.&nbsp; If it did join, I would expect that the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Imperium would not "grant" Red Zone status to any world just<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; because the world requested it.&nbsp; The Imperium is about trade, and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; there is no trade with Red Zoned worlds.&nbsp; The Imperium would<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; noly Red Zone a world (IMTU) when such suited their purposes.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If a world seriously interfered with trade (harrassed merchants,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; etc.), the Imperium would send in an IN negotiating squadron.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The best the world could do is make it difficult and even<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; dangerous to leave the starport, earning an Amber Zone rating.<BR><BR>IMTU, Red and Amber Zones are classifications given to systems by The<BR>Traveller's Aid Society, not the Imperium. If a system was interdicted<BR>by the Imperial Navy then TAS would certainly declare it Red, but they<BR>might also do so in other cases where the local government/population<BR>was deemed truly hostile to visitors. The way I see it a system couldn't<BR>declare its self a Red Zone, but through their actions could strongly<BR>encourage TAS to do so.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:07 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: T.C. Harrison (very long but worth it)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;F245AOPpBpcXCXWtjik00000930@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts, especially James.<BR><BR>Please continue.<BR><BR>It ain't a sig-file, it's entertainment, man!<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:07 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;l03010d21b61e2bbbc658@[206.224.92.67]&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>An interesting thought - particularly as my *other* hobby is the study of <BR>'real world' orders, decorations and medals :-)<BR><BR>Unless there is a particular reason - and note that I am someone who has <BR>paid little attention to 'canon' history, I created my own TU and have <BR>played there since 1981 - orders of knighthood are generally ranking by <BR>age. So in determining the order of precedence (that's the technical term <BR>for the sequence) you need to figure out which order was instituted when. <BR>The oldest is the most senior, and so on; unless the creator of one which <BR>would be junior decides - and has the authority to do so! - that the order <BR>he is creating is to be ranked as superior to those already in existance.<BR><BR>As an aside: has anyone determined the insignia for these various orders. <BR>I'm hoping to add a few pages of 'fictional' orders to my website, and I'd <BR>love to have the TRAVELLER ones. I've just invented some for the area of <BR>Lejendary Earth I am writing the sourcebook for (LE is the base world <BR>setting for Gary Gygax's latest game, LEJENDARY ADVENTURES; if you didn't <BR>happen to know).<BR><BR>And the real world stuff, if you are interested, is at <BR>http://www.medals.org.uk/<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:28:32 -0700<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>At 4:17 PM -0400 10/26/00, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>&gt;I would say that those positions could very well be in a constant <BR>&gt;state of flux.&nbsp; In fact, it could be the basis of numerous court <BR>&gt;intrigues.&nbsp; (Nobles don't have much else to do in their spare <BR>&gt;time... =)<BR><BR><BR>OTOH, they might be ranked by senority (or some other arbitrary<BR>measure) just to avoid having political fights over this sort<BR>of thing.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:35:34 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>Let us not forget Lucan's stanchest ally in his moment of (non-existent in<BR>GT) need, that clone of Joss Ackland, his immensity the Archduke Adair of<BR>Sol.&nbsp; An Imperial apologist par excellence.&nbsp; And IMTU, an earnest if harried<BR>politician with genuine concerns for his people (as well as an unfatering<BR>belief in the 3I).&nbsp; His contributions to the 3I might have resulted in a<BR>significant elevation of the status of loyal Solomani.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "AuricTech Shipyards" &lt;aurictech@esweeet.com&gt;<BR>To: "Traveller Mailing List (TML)" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 5:57 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I would put Sol at #3 currently, as an additional reward to those Imperial<BR>nobles sent to pacify the worlds that were formerly under Solomani<BR>domination.&nbsp; Under this theory, Sol would probably have been demoted to the<BR>least precedence during the period leading up to Empress Margaret's<BR>revocation of the SAR's charter, as punishment for Solomani excesses.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Similarly, Ilelish (I hope I spelled that correctly!) would lose<BR>precedence, if Dulinor was as seditious in the GTU as in MT.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ==<BR>&gt; AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>&gt; "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>&gt; Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; _____________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Half.com the hottest site for DVDs, CDs &amp; more! Get $5 off your 1st<BR>&gt; purchase of $10 or more.<BR>http://ads.adflight.com/mach1.asp?a=19061&amp;b=46867&amp;c=3094<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:50:24 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On to the far future<BR><BR>On 26 Oct 2000, at 21:55, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Rupert Boleyn writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;It's one of the things that's always bugged me, too. I can't see how the <BR>&gt; &gt;Solomani couldn't have taken Daibei, the Solomani Rim (all of it) and all of<BR>&gt; &gt;Diaspora, as well as what canon says they got before their initial advance<BR>&gt; &gt;stalled. Later on they could only do better, as of all the involved factions<BR>&gt; &gt;they had by far the biggest safe, and it was _all_ out of raiding/black war<BR>&gt; &gt;strike range of everyone else.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Solomani had their doves as well as their hawks, and each group contained<BR>&gt; many different sub-groups. My take is that once the Solomani had recaptured the<BR>&gt; territory of the original Solomani Autonomous Region, many semi-hawks were<BR>&gt; satisfied. The more extreme hawks simply didn't have enough political support to<BR>&gt; pursue the fight beyond that. <BR><BR>But they never really did, because of the Vegans, though how they never managed <BR>to at least totally surround them up in Diaspora is beyond me. From what one <BR>sees in _The Astrogator's Guide to Diapora Sector_ by the 1120's the whole <BR>sector could've been taken with one high population world's annual ship <BR>production, and the Solomani had that to spare, unlike other factions.<BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:50:24 +0100<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Red Zones<BR><BR>On Thu, 26 Oct Bruce Johnson said<BR><BR>&gt;Well, yes and no. It depends on the planet. Just saying "g'way! I van't to<BR>&gt;be alone" won't cause the IN to take up station around you to keep people<BR>&gt;away. OTOH, if you're some high ranking noble's garden world playground,<BR>&gt;yes, it can be done.<BR>&gt;OTOH, it could be very easy to pull a 'China and the Barbarians' and limit<BR>&gt;offworld contact to a small starport. If you're not trading with the<BR>&gt;outside world, the starport's gonna be small anyway, and insignificant.<BR>&gt;That'll effectively redzone you, since no one will want to go there<BR>&gt;anyway.<BR><BR>&gt;On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to<BR>go<BR>&gt;&gt; through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions<BR>of<BR>&gt;&gt; forms, etc.?<BR>&gt;&gt; -J. Jensen<BR><BR>The China and the Barbarians scenario would greatly limit off world contact,<BR>but would probably result in an Amber Zoning (at most) by TAS.&nbsp;&nbsp; I believe I<BR>recall correctly that a Red zone is _imposed_ by the Imperium and enforced<BR>by the Imperial Navy.&nbsp; I cannot see the Imperium being prepared to go to<BR>the expense of a red zone just because a planet wants it.&nbsp;&nbsp; The planet must<BR>be sensitive (politically, militarily or otherwise), Exceptionally dangerous<BR>(World Wide war, NBC Contamination etc) or in some other extreme situation<BR>to warrant a red zone.<BR><BR>Short answer, No a world could not become red zoned at its own request, no<BR>rule against them asking though.<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:51:16 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR><BR>At 15:45 -0400 26/10/00, "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Well, my take on ICE's failure, they neglected the reason they<BR>&gt;were created, and their primary product, the Iron Crown line of<BR>&gt;Middle Earth Modules.&nbsp; Instead of pushing this line and creating the<BR>&gt;product most people wanted and _collected_, they pushed through the<BR>&gt;proverbial "better mousetrap" in rules and lost a followership.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;1st Ed. rules were fine the way they were.&nbsp; What they needed to<BR>&gt;create and continue were the modules, and they had several "layers"<BR>&gt;of modules.<BR><BR>I think that a major contributor behind ICE's problems is the fact <BR>that they lost the LotR licence during their restructuring.<BR><BR>Shame, with the film coming out.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:48:54 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Books that survived...<BR><BR>So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books <BR>they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR><BR>Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive <BR>because it was even funnier)<BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homo hominen lupus est" ("Man is a wolf to man")<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3224<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3225<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>re: Red Zones<BR>Re: Red Zones<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Special PSI Powers<BR>RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>RE: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR>Autodynamics?<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: Furries<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: GT Knightly Orders<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Re: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR>RE: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR>Re: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR>Re: Red Zones<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:47:29 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 15:45 -0400 26/10/00, "Alberti, Joe (TRANS)" <BR>&lt;Joe.Alberti@Trans.ge.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Maybe SolSec struck a secret deal with Lucan or just maybe the Solomani are<BR>&gt;not the supermen they say they are.<BR><BR>You've also got to bear in mind that the individual planetary <BR>governments have far more influence in the Confederation, and a lot <BR>of the fleet is theirs. The Imperium has a far more command drive <BR>structure - the Solomani forces are more defensive.<BR><BR>From what I've skimmed of it, I would recommend the GT: Rim of Fire book.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:58:26 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Red Zones<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: "Traveller TML" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: re: Red Zones<BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:50:24 +0100<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On Thu, 26 Oct Bruce Johnson said<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Well, yes and no. It depends on the planet. Just saying "g'way! I van't <BR>&gt;to<BR>&gt; &gt;be alone" won't cause the IN to take up station around you to keep people<BR>&gt; &gt;away. OTOH, if you're some high ranking noble's garden world playground,<BR>&gt; &gt;yes, it can be done.<BR>&gt; &gt;OTOH, it could be very easy to pull a 'China and the Barbarians' and <BR>&gt;limit<BR>&gt; &gt;offworld contact to a small starport. If you're not trading with the<BR>&gt; &gt;outside world, the starport's gonna be small anyway, and insignificant.<BR>&gt; &gt;That'll effectively redzone you, since no one will want to go there<BR>&gt; &gt;anyway.<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;The China and the Barbarians scenario would greatly limit off world <BR>&gt;contact,<BR>&gt;but would probably result in an Amber Zoning (at most) by TAS.&nbsp;&nbsp; I believe <BR>&gt;I<BR>&gt;recall correctly that a Red zone is _imposed_ by the Imperium and enforced<BR>&gt;by the Imperial Navy.&nbsp; I cannot see the Imperium being prepared to go to<BR>&gt;the expense of a red zone just because a planet wants it.&nbsp;&nbsp; The planet must<BR>&gt;be sensitive (politically, militarily or otherwise), Exceptionally <BR>&gt;dangerous<BR>&gt;(World Wide war, NBC Contamination etc) or in some other extreme situation<BR>&gt;to warrant a red zone.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Short answer, No a world could not become red zoned at its own request, no<BR>&gt;rule against them asking though.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Okay. I can understand and agree that the IN would not protect a world from <BR>entrance just because it says it wants to be a red zone, but would they <BR>interfere if a world used its own navy to enforce an unofficial red zone?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:17:08 -0500<BR>From: Jimmy Simpson &lt;nimrod@santech.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red Zones<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have <BR>&gt; to go<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions of<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;forms, etc.?<BR><BR>Actually, I think there is a precedent for this.&nbsp; I believe that one of the <BR>worlds in the Aramis subsector was the owned by Tukera (from The Traveller <BR>Adventure) and they had it set up as a Red Zone.&nbsp; After their mishandling <BR>of the affairs presented in TTA, they lost this classification (at least <BR>according to what I remember from Behind the Claw).<BR><BR><BR>Jimmy Simpson<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; nimrodd@mail.com<BR>"Cannot say.<BR>&nbsp; Saying, I would know.<BR>&nbsp; Do not know.<BR>&nbsp; So cannot say."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Zathras (Babylon 5)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:16:30 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books <BR>&gt; they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive <BR>&gt; because it was even funnier)<BR><BR>Off the top of my head I came up with the following three:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Bible<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Book of Koran &lt;SP&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The collected works of Shakespeare<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Zane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:22:18 -0700<BR>From: Cliff Linehan &lt;clinehan@sfamipec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:49:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Ian Ferguson<BR>&lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>&gt;Cliff Linehan writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;A good example of a PSI boosting artifact would be the Lens from<BR>&gt;&gt;Lensmen.<BR>&gt;&gt;If you can find it, there is a out of print GURPS:Lensmen<BR>&gt;&gt;The lens is described as boosting PSI about ten times normal.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; That would be scary.&nbsp; Given the range of abilities associated<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with Psi 1-11, Psi of 10-150 would make some folks minor<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; deities.&nbsp; Don't do this unless you want such people to have a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; major influence on your TU.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Peez<BR><BR>Yes, it is not for the timid GM.<BR><BR>IMTU I have several scattered about known space.<BR>None of the PC party have discovered any of them yet.<BR><BR>I will caution any GM that has thoughts of having them in their universe to<BR>have the enemy strong enough to make a lens in the PC's hands necessary, or<BR>the enemy already has another lens. The balance of the game and the<BR>challenge to the PCs must be maintained at all times. No cake walks at any<BR>level.<BR><BR>A single lens in the hands of a high level PSI PC with the backing of a good<BR>player could be a match for an Imperial Navy sub-Sector Fleet or even a full<BR>Sector Fleet. Odds are on the fleet due to sheer numbers.<BR><BR>Clifford Linehan<BR>http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:29:25 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>SD Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>&gt; they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR><BR>Here are my selections (in no particular order):<BR><BR>_This Kind of War: A Study in Unpreparedness_, by T.R. Fehrenbach<BR>"The Illuminatus! Trilogy", by Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea<BR>_The Past Through Tomorrow_, by Robert Heinlein<BR>_Time Travelers Strictly Cash_, by Spider Robinson<BR>_The Guns of the South_, by Harry Turtledove<BR>_Atlas Shrugged_, by Ayn Rand<BR>_Fields of Battle: The Wars for North America_, by John Keegan<BR>_On War_, by Karl von Clausewitz<BR>_Principia Discordia_ (SJG edition)<BR>_The Prince_, by Nicolo Machiavelli<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive<BR>&gt; because it was even funnier)<BR><BR>The original version (by S. Morgenstern) in the original Florinese, or<BR>William Goldman's "the good parts" English translation?<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:28:47 +0200<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR><BR>This whole package of bad news was one that I really, really didn't<BR>need. I got it from the Rolemaster Mailing List a few hours ago (when I<BR>began checking my mail).<BR><BR>Oh well... I'll survive. I still have my bookshelf of RM rules and<BR>supplements. I'm really sad about the whole thing though.<BR><BR>SD Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt; I think that a major contributor behind ICE's problems is the fact<BR>&gt; that they lost the LotR licence during their restructuring.<BR><BR>Absolutely.<BR><BR>&gt; Shame, with the film coming out.<BR><BR>Probably one of the reasons they lost the license. The staff has not<BR>been allowed to comment on any details on this, and speculation on the<BR>Rolemaster Mailing List has been discouraged.<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:33:04 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>On 26 Oct 2000, at 23:48, SD Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books <BR>&gt; they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR><BR>_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny - it just should, 'cause it's that good.<BR><BR>_The Art of War_ by Sun Tzu (sp?) - which probably didn't, judging from the <BR>mess certain people made of the 'Rebellion'.<BR><BR>Shakespear - his works are just so good.<BR><BR>Aristophanes' plays, though playing updated versions in front of Dulinor or <BR>Lucan would be bad for one's health.<BR><BR>That's all for now.<BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:25:28 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; And no Leonard, you can't mine the landfills, because they went through<BR>&gt; that stage at some point in the First Imperium thousands of years<BR>&gt; ago...there are no more landfills, or if there is one, it's not on the<BR>&gt; planet (shades of the Moon from Futurama ;-)<BR><BR>Bruce, I actually *agree* with you (mostly) on this point.<BR><BR>Recycling, which will include mining landfills, *will* come into common<BR>use at some point. Mostly because it's cheaper than mining the<BR>remaining "low grade" ores *and* cheaper than paying import costs from<BR>worlds with high grade ores. <BR><BR>So I expect that there will be several possibilities, depending on the<BR>age and degree of interstellar contact a world has.<BR><BR>For example, a world with lots of interstellar contact may not *have*<BR>"landfills". Or at least not ones with lots of metals, plastics and<BR>other "minable" materials. It was likely cheaper to sell such "scrap"<BR>to merchants who hauled it to worlds where they could sell it to be<BR>recycled.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:35:48 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>SD Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>&gt; they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR><BR>As long as the most butt-kicking books of all time, Nine Princes in Amber,<BR>The Guns of Avalon, etc survive, future generations will get a chance to<BR>read this most excellent collection of stories. That's what really matters.<BR>There must be other books too, like The Alhambra, Moby Dick, Walden, Of Mice<BR>and Men, Of Human Bondage, The Devil and Daniel Webster, and other classics,<BR>but they don't have immortal heroes with control of the very nature of the<BR>universe who like to thwack their adversaries with a handy sword. That's<BR>hard to match.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:37:29 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On 26 Oct 2000, at 23:47, SD Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 15:45 -0400 26/10/00, "Alberti, Joe (TRANS)" <BR>&gt; &lt;Joe.Alberti@Trans.ge.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Maybe SolSec struck a secret deal with Lucan or just maybe the Solomani are not<BR>&gt; &gt;the supermen they say they are.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You've also got to bear in mind that the individual planetary <BR>&gt; governments have far more influence in the Confederation, and a lot <BR>&gt; of the fleet is theirs. The Imperium has a far more command drive <BR>&gt; structure - the Solomani forces are more defensive.<BR><BR>I'd agree with that. What amuses me is how the 3I with it's strong central <BR>command structure (for its main high-tech fleet), and its deployment of its <BR>main assets in clumps well back, and its preference for battle-riders (which <BR>IMO are much better for offense than defence) can't seem to see why other <BR>societies tend to see them as a potential aggressor.<BR><BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:08:08 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Special PSI Powers<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" <BR>&gt; For non-gurpser: <BR>&gt; Typical Traveller Character: 100-150 points<BR>&gt; 'Realistic' Superhero(eg WildCards, Aberrant): 250<BR>&gt; 4-colour Super: 500<BR>&gt; Superman: 1000<BR>&gt; Kim Kinnison: 1500<BR><BR>According to G:Lensman, Kinnison is built on 4158 points.&nbsp; The other<BR>Second-stage Lensman are "only" between 3000 and 4000 points.&nbsp; <BR><BR>As Dean pointed out, a little out of the league of GT characters.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:15:33 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; From: Gerry Harris <BR>&gt; Considering the Third Imperium is founded more than 2000 years after<BR>&gt; our own time, can you imagine the sort of legends that will have grown<BR>&gt; out of the exploits of our times?&nbsp; Especially if historical records are<BR>&gt; lost over the passage of time ...<BR><BR>The key is that this is "The Plastic Age".&nbsp; No past, and hopefully no<BR>future periods of history will have left such a vast quantity of<BR>long-lasting relic cultural material (read: junk) behind.<BR><BR>This will be remembered as the time of Ronald McDonald, of Bart Simpson, of<BR>Barbie, and as the time of all the other bits of plastic crap which our<BR>civilisation has churned out in the last few (and next few) decades.&nbsp; (In<BR>grumpy and cynical mode:&nbsp; how appropriate.)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:24:34 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>&gt; From: Loren Wiseman <BR>&gt; Ideally, it should be the order in which the domains were created, but<BR>&gt; departing from strict adherance to that sequence for political reasons.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sylea should be #1, of course. Deneb was created last, so it is #7, and<BR>&gt; Illiesh (sic?) is #6.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I nominate Vland for #2, Antares for 3, Sol for 4 and Gateway for 5.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Opinions? I am pretty much settled on positions 1, 2, 6, and 7. I will<BR>&gt; consider suggestions for the position of 3 to 5.<BR><BR>Looks good.&nbsp; Vland is definitely #2 in my mind.&nbsp; (Coincidentally, the<BR>Archduke of Vland would be the senior noble of the Imperium after the<BR>Archduke of Sylea...)<BR><BR>The territories of the Domain of Sol only started being absorbed fairly<BR>late, but that is where the order becomes a political thing.<BR><BR>Conclusion: "Yes".<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:05:24 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR>COOL!&nbsp; Just ordered one :)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 1:19 PM<BR>To: traveller@ient.com<BR>Subject: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR><BR>These just arrived and will be up and available through warehouse 23 very<BR>soon (like tonight maybe). They are limited edition, and are for the Regina<BR>Brubek's. When these are gone, there will be no more (when we do another<BR>run of Brubek's shirts, they will be for another location), so if you want<BR>one, act quickly.<BR><BR>Watch the Daily Illuminator and check Warehouse 23<BR>(http://www.warehouse23.com/) for price, sizes, and so on.<BR><BR>If you aren't interested in Brubek's merchandise, ignore this message<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society<BR>http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:11:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Autodynamics?<BR><BR>This is a little OT, but what with the various discussions of relativity<BR>and so on that go on here...<BR><BR>What's the deal with Autodynamics?&nbsp; It's touted as a "replacement" for<BR>special relativity.&nbsp; The web page (http://flic.net/~saa/) has a bit of a<BR>"hard sell" feel about it, though.&nbsp; Comments? Opinions?<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:33:14 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>On 26 Oct 00, at 13:50, Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Each domain has an order or knighthood associated with it (Order of Sylea,<BR>&gt; etc). I want to rank these in order of seniority, so that the knight<BR>&gt; companions of ther Order of Sylea can sit higher at the table than the Knights<BR>&gt; of Sol or whatever.<BR><BR>Well, lets look at this "logically". The first six domains (and consequently <BR>their orders) were all created at the same time with Deneb much later. <BR>Logically Sylea should have the highest precidence (being the oldest part <BR>of the Imperium) and since Vland effectively joined 30 years before the <BR>foundation of the Imperium (M0 sourcebook) it should get second. This <BR>leaves Illelish, Gateway Antares and Sol. Now also according to M0, Cleon <BR>forbad expansion towards Sol intially so we can put them at six *when the <BR>domains were formed*. Illeslish was integrated quickly and relatively <BR>peacefully so they probably started at three. Antares received more <BR>attention so they were probably four and Gateway five. So at the foundation <BR>of the domains we have 1 = Sylea, 2 = Vland, 3 = Illelish, 4 = Antares, 5 = <BR>Gateway and 6 = Sol.<BR><BR>Then later on, you have the Illelish revolt with Illelish being severly <BR>punished. So lets drop them down to six and bump everyone else up one <BR>giving 1 = Sylea, 2 = Vland, 3 = Antares, 4 = Gateway, 5 = Sol and 6 = <BR>Illelish.<BR><BR>Also about this time we have a major focus on expansion towards Sol <BR>meeting resistance from the Solomani, so lets assume that to mark the <BR>reintegration of Terra the Emperor bumps Sol up one (no doubt *much* to <BR>the annoyance of Gateway, good rivalry there) so with the admission of <BR>Terra you have 1 = Sylea, 2 = Vland, 3 = Antares, 4 = Sol, 5 = Gateway <BR>and 6 = Illelish.<BR><BR>Then to round it off you have the creation of Deneb with precidence seven. <BR>This gives the current day precidence of 1 = Sylea, 2 = Vland, 3 = Antares, <BR>4 = Sol, 5 = Gateway (still po'ed at Sol for bumping them), 6 = Illilesh and <BR>7 = Deneb.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:39:05 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Furries<BR><BR>&gt; [1] For anyone curious, this was mentioned in the movie 'Trekkies.'&nbsp; I've <BR>&gt;&nbsp; yet to see a movie called 'Furries,' which leads me to believe that most <BR>&gt;&nbsp; people couldn't give a harpsichord about furry fandom. =)<BR><BR>I think this is because most people don't know there _is_ such a thing as <BR>furry fandom.<BR><BR>Don't grok it myself -- but I don't see the attraction of glueing a horseshoe <BR>crab to your forehead and learning a fabricated language either . . .&nbsp; &nbsp; : )<BR><BR>Loren "Every hobby looks deranged to outsiders . . . EXCEPT MINE!" Wiseman<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:39:13 -0400<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:45:52 -0400 (EDT), Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Here's somehing that will no doubt stir huge debate (almost everything I<BR>&gt;ask does).<BR><BR>&gt;Each domain has an order or knighthood associated with it (Order of Sylea,<BR>&gt;etc). I want to rank these in order of seniority, so that the knight<BR>&gt;companions of ther Order of Sylea can sit higher at the table than the<BR>&gt;Knights of Sol or whatever.<BR><BR>&gt;Ideally, it should be the order in which the domains were created, but<BR>&gt;departing from strict adherance to that sequence for political reasons.<BR><BR>&gt;Sylea should be #1, of course. Deneb was created last, so it is #7, and<BR>&gt;Illiesh (sic?) is #6.<BR><BR>&gt;I nominate Vland for #2, Antares for 3, Sol for 4 and Gateway for 5.<BR><BR>&gt;Opinions? I am pretty much settled on positions 1, 2, 6, and 7. I will<BR>&gt;consider suggestions for the position of 3 to 5.<BR><BR>I would make Sol #3, with perpetual debate and protest as to whether it or<BR>Vland should be #2.&nbsp; Antares should be #4, and Gateway #5.<BR><BR>Rationale:&nbsp; The Third Imperium, regardless of the order of integration of<BR>the Domains, has as its root cultures those of the Sylean Federation, the<BR>Vilani, and the Solomani.&nbsp; There should therefore be no doubt that these<BR>three groups should be pre-eminent, although any proponent of a particular<BR>ordering of the three can make a good, but not overwhelming, case for their<BR>order.&nbsp; This week, the current order is based on the fact that the Emperor<BR>is the principal of the Order of Sylea, and Vland had established an<BR>interstellar polity long before Sol did.&nbsp; Next week, Sol may take<BR>precedence over Vland because it has a larger influence on the governing<BR>style of the Imperium.&nbsp; When the Moot meets to confirm a new Emperor, maybe<BR>the three Orders sit mixed, in order of individual accolades.&nbsp; Or something<BR>like that.&nbsp; But definitely the Big Three, first.<BR><BR>Although I do like Bruce Johnson's idea of rotating the seating order when<BR>seated in one of the other Domains.<BR><BR>I place Antares before Gateway because Antares simply has to have predated<BR>Gateway.&nbsp; Yes, Antares is a significant cultural region, but it is nowhere<BR>as significant as the Big Three, and none of the other major cultural<BR>regions (other than the Big Three) appear to influence the ranking of their<BR>Domains.<BR><BR>I presume that the non-Domain orders of knighthood all rank behind the<BR>Domain knights in precedence, with precedence among them strictly in order<BR>of creation of the respective Orders?<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:44:55 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: GT Knightly Orders<BR><BR>&gt; As an aside: has anyone determined the insignia for these various orders. <BR><BR>I'm working on those too. <BR><BR>The orders are from the Nobles essay in the MT Encyclopedia and include one <BR>for each domain, one for the major non-human races, and a couple of others. <BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:57:58 -0400<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:07 +0100 (BST)<BR>&gt;From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Unless there is a particular reason... orders of knighthood are generally <BR>&gt;ranking by age. So in determining the order of precedence (that's the <BR>&gt;technical term for the sequence) you need to figure out which order was <BR>&gt;instituted when. <BR><BR>Concur 100% with Mexal on this one: order of creation should be order of<BR>precedence. Given that there is an Office of Heraldry within the Imperial<BR>bureaucracy, they should be charged with keeping such things straight.<BR><BR>Just to be difficult, the original quote says (Supp 11, p. 6):<BR><BR>"The names of the first six domains were Sylea, Vland, Gateway, Ilelish,<BR>Antares, and Sol... A seventh domain, Deneb, was created in the first year<BR>of the First Frontier War."<BR><BR>The order listed here is neither alphabetical nor astrographic. I propose<BR>that this is the order of their (otherwise near-simultaneous) creation, and<BR>therefore precedence. This could easily reflect -- as Jon Zeigler points<BR>out -- the different emphasis and importance placed on these domains at the<BR>start of the Pacification Campaigns, compared to their later historical<BR>significance. Establishing an order of precedence that depends on tradition<BR>rather than historical revisionism serves to reinforce the shear age of the<BR>Imperium. If nothing else, it makes being a Knight of the Order of Gateway<BR>good for something.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:10:52<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR>At 03:18 PM 10/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;These just arrived and will be up and available through warehouse 23 very<BR>&gt;soon (like tonight maybe). They are limited edition, and are for the Regina<BR>&gt;Brubek's. When these are gone, there will be no more (when we do another<BR>&gt;run of Brubek's shirts, they will be for another location), so if you want<BR>&gt;one, act quickly.<BR><BR>I just got a very, very good idea for the BayCon party...<BR><BR>just ordered my shirt.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:36:19 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR>Uh-oh, everybody duck!<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 6:11 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR><BR>At 03:18 PM 10/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;These just arrived and will be up and available through warehouse 23 very<BR>&gt;soon (like tonight maybe). They are limited edition, and are for the Regina<BR>&gt;Brubek's. When these are gone, there will be no more (when we do another<BR>&gt;run of Brubek's shirts, they will be for another location), so if you want<BR>&gt;one, act quickly.<BR><BR>I just got a very, very good idea for the BayCon party...<BR><BR>just ordered my shirt.<BR>- --<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:53:21 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR>Jesse Degraff wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Uh-oh, everybody duck!<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;shrug&gt;<BR><BR>If you insist....<BR><BR>http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/245.html<BR><BR>&lt;/shrug&gt;<BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:38:10<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red Zones<BR><BR>At 10:05 AM 10/26/2000 CDT, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to go <BR>&gt;through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions of <BR>&gt;forms, etc.?<BR><BR>A Red Zone is an interdiction imposed from the outside.<BR><BR>A world is more than free to pass laws restricting landings, or even<BR>ordering all contact take place in orbit, or on a moon.&nbsp; Picture the<BR>restrictions on tourists in the Soviet Union.<BR><BR>I wrote a world like this once.&nbsp; The population (gov't D) believed that<BR>they were the last holy place in the universe, and shunned all contact with<BR>the damned outsiders.&nbsp; The Imperium forced some small level of contact, but<BR>the starport was on the planet's moon, and no landings were allowed.<BR><BR>So, of course, I had the players' ship have to crash land on the surface. :)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3225<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3226<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>re: Red Zones<BR>Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR>RE: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR>Re: Autodynamics?<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR>Re: Hagfish<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>Re: Odd Question<BR>Medals (was Re: Odd Question)<BR>Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England&nbsp; (OT))<BR>Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:40:10<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Red Zones<BR><BR>&gt;Okay. I can understand and agree that the IN would not protect a world from <BR>&gt;entrance just because it says it wants to be a red zone, but would they <BR>&gt;interfere if a world used its own navy to enforce an unofficial red zone?<BR><BR>No.&nbsp; The world is free to regulate who lands on the surface.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:42:20<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR><BR>At 01:42 AM 10/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Hey, not all of us Texans live in the Dallas area ... just most of the<BR>&gt;delusional Cowboys fans ...<BR>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR><BR>Isn't that redundant?<BR><BR>Go Niners!<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:57:31<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR>At 06:36 PM 10/26/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Uh-oh, everybody duck!<BR><BR>Not so fast buster!&nbsp; Since I only know that you, me, and Kirsten are going<BR>to have the shirts, you've just volunteered for party duty!<BR><BR>God, being an ex-Corporal is useful sometimes.&nbsp; :)<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp;&nbsp; Templar Agent at Large.<BR>gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TravGeekCode: <BR>tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:01:07 EDT<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Autodynamics?<BR><BR>charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca writes:<BR>&gt;This is a little OT, but what with the various<BR>&gt;discussions of relativity and so on that go on here...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;What's the deal with Autodynamics?&nbsp; It's touted as a <BR>&gt;"replacement" for special relativity.&nbsp; The web page<BR>&gt;(http://flic.net/~saa/) has a bit of a "hard sell"<BR>&gt;feel about it, though.&nbsp; Comments? Opinions?<BR><BR>Zeigler's Rules of Thumb for Detecting Pseudoscience:<BR><BR>1) If the theory seems to be strongly tied to a single<BR>researcher. . .<BR><BR>2) If supporters of the theory have a club, society or <BR>other association dedicated to such support. . .<BR><BR>3) If supporters of the theory are fond of using a<BR>lot of mathematical or scientific terminology in front<BR>of a lay audience. . .<BR><BR>4) If the theory is described as being something that<BR>other reputable scientists have "missed" or are<BR>"deliberately ignoring. . ."<BR><BR>5) If supporters of the theory make a big deal about<BR>how they are being persecuted for their beliefs. . .<BR><BR>. .then it's probably "pseudoscience."&nbsp; <BR><BR>Pseudoscience often tries to win lay converts by<BR>appealing to their sense of vanity: "Here, you can be<BR>in the know about this exciting new area of science,<BR>while all those mainstream scientists are too foolish<BR>or arrogant to pay attention."&nbsp; The scientific-sounding<BR>language also helps, since many laymen (even those who<BR>dislike science as actually practiced) are impressed by<BR>such terminology.<BR><BR>Even a casual glimpse at the Autodynamics site makes it<BR>clear that the "theory" fits all five of my Rules.<BR>That tells me that it's somewhere in the area of<BR>creation science or Scientology, as far as credibility<BR>goes.<BR><BR>- ---<BR>Jon<BR>JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>jon.zeigler@raba.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:43:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Personally, I see this as complete nonsense. There's only one type of <BR>&gt;&gt;(true)<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; vacuum: the total lack of matter. Right? That's what I've always thought <BR>&gt;&gt;a<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; vacuum was (besides being the thing that you clean the carpet with <BR>&gt;&gt;(There. I<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; beat you to it!)).<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Except that quantum effects means that there's an incredible amount of<BR>&gt;&gt;particles appearing and disappearing all the time in a vacuum (virtual<BR>&gt;&gt;particles).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wouldn't this violate the law that matter cannot under ordinary <BR>&gt; circumstances be created or destroyed?<BR><BR>There's a loophole. The same "law" that says you can't determine *both*<BR>the position and momentum of a particle simultaneously beyond a certain<BR>level of accuracy, also says that the shorter the period of time over<BR>which you determine the energy of a "system", the less accurately you<BR>can know the energy.<BR><BR>In fact tht's how the various "force at a distance" forces work. The<BR>particles exchange virtual particles as the carriers of the forces<BR>involved. Said particles are only detectable by the<BR>attraction/repulsion they cause.<BR><BR>It all involves Planck's constant.<BR><BR>If I recall correctly...<BR><BR>p * l = h<BR>E * t = h<BR><BR>p = momentum<BR>l = accuracy of position (or wavelengthm as the case may be)<BR>E = energy<BR>t = time<BR>h = Planck's constant<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;It's not even theory. The Casimir effect occurs *because* of all these<BR>&gt;&gt;particles.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Basicly, you take two flat plates, and place them in a vacuum, with<BR>&gt;&gt;their flat surfaces parallel. You'lll discover that there's a slight<BR>&gt;&gt;force attracting them to each other (besides gravity!). And the closer<BR>&gt;&gt;they get, the stronger it is.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The plates create a "limit" on the energy of the virtual particles that<BR>&gt;&gt;can appear between them. Since there's no such limit for the space<BR>&gt;&gt;*outside* them, the higher energy virtual particles create a pressure<BR>&gt;&gt;on the plates.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Could this be how T-Plates work?<BR><BR>Unlikely, since the force gets weaker as the seperation between the<BR>plates increases and is essentially nil at distance of an inch.<BR><BR>&gt; Philisophical Question of the Day: If you put two plate into a vacuum, would <BR>&gt; it still be a vacuum?<BR><BR>Sure. The plates are matter. But that says nothing about the medium<BR>they exist in.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:52:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Wouldn't this violate the law that matter cannot under ordinary<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; circumstances be created or destroyed?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;As I understand it ...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;(a) You mean "energy" not "matter".<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was talking about virtual particles. Aren't they matter?<BR><BR>Matter *is* energy. <BR><BR>E = m * c^2<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:57:34 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vaccuum<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Quite. The energy released from fusion (the process that makes the sun<BR>&gt; shine) comes from the difference in mass between two hydrogen atoms and one<BR>&gt; helium atom.<BR><BR>Only if the two hydrogen atoms are deuterium. :-)<BR><BR>4 H1 -&gt; 1 He4<BR>2 H2 -&gt; 1 He4<BR>1 H3 + 1 H1 -&gt; 1 He4<BR><BR>etc.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:00:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; The other problem is storing the AM, since it will annihilate on contact<BR>&gt; with any material container.&nbsp; Handwaves regarding magnetic (or in SF,<BR>&gt; gravitic) containment are required.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Note that we can already store positrons in a cyclotron, but at huge cost<BR>&gt; in equipment and facility size, for a vanishingly small mass of<BR>&gt; antimatter. <BR><BR>Actually, with Pennington(?) traps and the like we can store microgram<BR>or is it nanogram?) quantities of anti-protons indefinitely.<BR><BR>And they are about the size of a suitacse. With some units the size of<BR>a lunchbox. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:03:26 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Collapsing vacuum<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; And indeed, one of the as yet not quite resolved problems of quantum<BR>&gt;&gt; mechanics is that as the time interval approaches zero, the energy<BR>&gt;&gt; variations reach macroscopic scales, eventually approaching infinity at<BR>&gt;&gt; the limit.&nbsp; We should be experiencing massive energy variations every tiny<BR>&gt;&gt; fraction of a nanosecond, but we're not.&nbsp; In many ways, this parallels the<BR>&gt;&gt; problem of blackbody radiation in a cavity from the late 19th century;<BR>&gt;&gt; straightforward calculations showed that the energy density surrounding<BR>&gt;&gt; any object with a positive temperature should be infinite.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; My take on this is as follows. All of this discussion of virtual particles<BR>&gt; comes from a computational technique you use in quantum mechanics called<BR>&gt; perturbation theory. Perturbation theory is only an approximation to the<BR>&gt; real underlying quantum-mechanical process, so there is really no claim that<BR>&gt; the virtual states really exist; they are really only an approximation to<BR>&gt; the real thing.<BR><BR>Remember, virtual particles come *directly* from the Heisenberg<BR>Uncertainty principle. Position/momentum or energy/time, it's the same<BR>thing. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:07:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Hagfish<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Way cool animal for PCs to encounter. Somewhere from the link<BR>&gt;&gt; you can probably also get the link to the cave where the walls<BR>&gt;&gt; drip pH 0.5 sulphuric acid... and the fish and slimes that live <BR>&gt;&gt; within. Cool planetside adventure possibilitie.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; I think parts of that mine have stuff with a pH of -1.5 or <BR>&gt; something obscene. Places where breathing the air through your<BR>&gt; mouth corrodes the enamel on your teeth at a palpable rate.<BR><BR>Except that you won't be worried about the damage to your *teeth,<BR>because of what's happening to the soft tissues in your respiratory<BR>tract. <BR><BR>&gt; A classic example of a corrosive or even insidious atmosphere.<BR><BR>Yep.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:10:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Well okay, not really...but it is pretty interesting:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds016.htm<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;An iceball named EB173, ~400 miles in diameter has been found between<BR>&gt;&gt;Neptune and Pluto.&nbsp; They're calling it a "Plutino".&nbsp; Apparently this is<BR>&gt;&gt;again bringing up the whole issue of what a "planet" is, officially.&nbsp; This<BR>&gt;&gt;new body just misses the (arbitrarily chosen) mark in terms of mass.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt;&gt;has the other characteristics: Independent orbit and sufficient gravity to<BR>&gt;&gt;form a spherical shape.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well. This just blows Bode's Law right out the window, doesn't it?<BR><BR>Pluto did that already. Also, there's been speculation that you can get<BR>bodies at "half-intervals". It was possible to get a fairly good fit to<BR>the pre-Pioneer/Voyager satellite systems of the outer planets. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:30:15 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Cc: &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 10:57:am<BR>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:07 +0100 (BST)<BR>&gt; &gt;From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Unless there is a particular reason... orders of knighthood are generally<BR>&gt; &gt;ranking by age. So in determining the order of precedence (that's the<BR>&gt; &gt;technical term for the sequence) you need to figure out which order was<BR>&gt; &gt;instituted when.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Concur 100% with Mexal on this one: order of creation should be order of<BR>&gt; precedence. Given that there is an Office of Heraldry within the Imperial<BR>&gt; bureaucracy, they should be charged with keeping such things straight.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just to be difficult, the original quote says (Supp 11, p. 6):<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "The names of the first six domains were Sylea, Vland, Gateway, Ilelish,<BR>&gt; Antares, and Sol... A seventh domain, Deneb, was created in the first year<BR>&gt; of the First Frontier War."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The order listed here is neither alphabetical nor astrographic. I propose<BR>&gt; that this is the order of their (otherwise near-simultaneous) creation,<BR>and<BR>&gt; therefore precedence. This could easily reflect -- as Jon Zeigler points<BR>&gt; out -- the different emphasis and importance placed on these domains at<BR>the<BR>&gt; start of the Pacification Campaigns, compared to their later historical<BR>&gt; significance. Establishing an order of precedence that depends on<BR>tradition<BR>&gt; rather than historical revisionism serves to reinforce the shear age of<BR>the<BR>&gt; Imperium. If nothing else, it makes being a Knight of the Order of Gateway<BR>&gt; good for something.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Right, I'm not normally a "Me to" person, but both this and Mex's post are<BR>the way I'd go also.&nbsp; Such traditions are usually deep seated and not open<BR>for such change as "I have first dibs..."&nbsp; Such things usually remain with<BR>their status firmly quoed, even if an original order becomes weakened and/or<BR>powerless.&nbsp; The structure tends to stop such quibbles as who gets to "dib"<BR>for position this decade, cuts down on the politics involved with such<BR>"dibbing" for position, and keeps the political intrigue on other aspects<BR>(such as showing how weak a higher order actually is, and so on).<BR><BR>The above quote from Supp 11 works fine for me... and I do love a good<BR>tradition, gives so many people something to grumble and/or work against! ;)<BR><BR>- -- The Roc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:19:47 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Medals (was Re: Odd Question)<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Megan asked -<BR>&gt;As an aside: has anyone determined the insignia for these various orders.<BR>&gt;I'm hoping to add a few pages of 'fictional' orders to my website, and I'd<BR>&gt;love to have the TRAVELLER ones.<BR><BR>There is a site out there with ribbons for Traveller awards. I think it's one of<BR>the as-yet unrated links on my web page - try looking through there.<BR><BR>Sorry I can't be more helpful - I know I've stolen^k^k^k incorporatged them into<BR>my campaign, but can't give you the exact link! :-(<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:30:04 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England&nbsp; (OT))<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 6:42 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Wow. Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 01:42 AM 10/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Hey, not all of us Texans live in the Dallas area ... just most of the<BR>&gt; &gt;delusional Cowboys fans ...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Isn't that redundant?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Go Niners!<BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Niners? Yuck. Go Saints!<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:28:49 -0400<BR>From: CatWhoLeaps &lt;catwholeaps@mac.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>I'm just getting back into Trav after a 2 year hiatus.&nbsp; I own most of MT<BR>(except Hard Times :(, bits of CT and Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw.<BR>I'm interested in perhaps starting a Gurps Trav campaign (the background<BR>appeals).<BR><BR>Given I don't have infinite resources for buying Trav books, which Gurps<BR>books would I need in order of preference?&nbsp; Obviously Basic.&nbsp; Is Gurps Space<BR>necessary/useful? or the Compendiums? or would other books in the Gurps Trav<BR>line (Alien races and so on) be better?<BR><BR>Sorry if this is one of those perennial questions...<BR><BR>David Crew<BR>MT Ref 1118<BR><BR>P.S. Anyone hiding out on Long Island that plays Trav?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:03:13 -0500<BR>From: Charles McKnight &lt;cmcknight01@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England (OT))<BR><BR>Are you implying there are any other kind?&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>Chuck<BR><BR>At 01:42 AM 10/26/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Dallas Metroplex shows up strong on your list Eris.<BR>&gt; &gt; There are 8 and that's not counting myself.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sounds like someone needs to host a Traveller<BR>&gt; &gt; game at the Uncommon Con. They're looking<BR>&gt; &gt; for GMs.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hey, not all of us Texans live in the Dallas area ... just most of the<BR>&gt;delusional Cowboys fans ...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:07:16 -0500<BR>From: Charles McKnight &lt;cmcknight01@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>Foundation Series<BR>Deathworld Trilogy<BR>Stainless Steel Rat Series<BR>Robot Series<BR>Lensman Series<BR>D'Alembert Series<BR>Lord of the Rings<BR>Hitchhiker Series<BR>Fuzzy Logic<BR>A Short History of the Universe<BR><BR>At 11:48 PM 10/26/00 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books <BR>&gt;they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive because <BR>&gt;it was even funnier)<BR>&gt;----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homo hominen lupus est" ("Man is a wolf to man")<BR>&gt;http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:05:28 -0400<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>Piper's Terro-Human Future History series.<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:15:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 09:56 25.10.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Well. This just blows Bode's Law right out the window, doesn't it?<BR><BR>&gt; Er, what=B4s Bode=B4s Law? Just curious!<BR><BR>A "rule" for planetary distances. From the sci.space FAQ:<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Titius-Bode Law for approximating planetary distances:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; R(n) = 0.4 + 0.3 * 2^N Astronomical Units<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This fits fairly well for Mercury (N = -infinity), Venus<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (N = 0), Earth (N = 1), Mars (N = 2), Jupiter (N = 4),<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Saturn (N = 5), Uranus (N = 6), and Pluto (N = 7).<BR><BR><BR>Cere's was found at pretty close to N=3. And in fact, astronomers were<BR>*searching* that area *because* of the rule...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:46:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Regarding Bode's law, it seems from what I've read lately that there's<BR>&gt; very little faith in the idea even as a "general principle" any more, much<BR>&gt; less a law.&nbsp; Recent models of planetary system formation suggest a very<BR>&gt; arbitrary set of orbits and planetary masses:&nbsp; Rockballs, asteroid belts<BR>&gt; and Gas giants can just as easily be close to a star or far away, and<BR>&gt; orbital radii show no discernable patterns except that (of course) orbits<BR>&gt; can't be close enough together for adjacent worlds to disrupt each other's<BR>&gt; orbits.<BR><BR>Actually, they also can't be such that one body has an orbit whose<BR>period is a simple multiple of another's. If it is, it'll get a tug in<BR>the *sam* direction every time they pass each other, with the end<BR>result that the lighter body will no longer be in such a "resonant"<BR>orbit.<BR><BR>This means that there will seem to be patterns in orbits..<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:06:20 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: TimeTraveller PBEM (was: On To The Far Future )<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 08:02 AM 10/25/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I'll need a little<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; time to create some rubber physics and a plausible time<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; machine but...yeah.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; All you really need is an improved reactionless drive. Jump<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; drives plus<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; easily reached near c velocities gives time travel...<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Nah, Time dilation's too easy.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;It's not just time dilation. You have to hit near c velocities in the<BR>&gt;&gt;right directions, and make the right jumps. But if you do it all right,<BR>&gt;&gt;you wind up in the past.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Don't ask me for detailed instructions, I'm still trying to get someone<BR>&gt;&gt;to draw them up... &lt;sigh&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If the amount of jump fuel a ship needed was based on mass instead of <BR>&gt; volume, this would be less of a problem. Yes, it would be possible in <BR>&gt; theory for a ship to jump at near c velocities, it's just impossible for <BR>&gt; the ship to carry enough fuel to make the jump.<BR><BR>Won't work. The jumo drive sees the ship's mass in the *ship's* frame<BR>of reference. So the velocity doesn't matter.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:10:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Hmmm, Battlefield Earth eh? Did you know that John Travolta thinks it<BR>&gt; has become a "cult hit" and is trying to raise funds for a sequel? Do<BR>&gt; you think we should organise a collection to hire a hit man, just to<BR>&gt; stop it?<BR><BR>Of *course* it's a "cult" hit. But I don't dare name the "cult" as<BR>that'll bring them down on us. <BR><BR>But I will say that it starts with "sci" and ends with "ology".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:22:52 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>And all of the Traveller RPG Books<BR><BR>;) <BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Charles McKnight [mailto:cmcknight01@home.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 2:07 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Foundation Series<BR>&gt; Deathworld Trilogy<BR>&gt; Stainless Steel Rat Series<BR>&gt; Robot Series<BR>&gt; Lensman Series<BR>&gt; D'Alembert Series<BR>&gt; Lord of the Rings<BR>&gt; Hitchhiker Series<BR>&gt; Fuzzy Logic<BR>&gt; A Short History of the Universe<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 11:48 PM 10/26/00 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top <BR>&gt; ten books <BR>&gt; &gt;they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ <BR>&gt; survive because <BR>&gt; &gt;it was even funnier)<BR>&gt; &gt;----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homo hominen lupus est" ("Man is a wolf to man")<BR>&gt; &gt;http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3226<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (rly-zd02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.226]) by air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:31:43 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:30:36 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA84839;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:29:47 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:29:40 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA84794<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:29:40 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:29:40 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010270329.XAA84794@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3226<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 27 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3227<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England(OT))<BR>RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR>RE: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Art vs. Business (was Re: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Furries<BR>RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>RE: Furries<BR>RE: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR>RE: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR>RE: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR>RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>RE: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:18:19 -0500<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>At 04:16 PM 10/26/00 -0700, someone wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books <BR>&gt;&gt; they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive <BR>&gt;&gt; because it was even funnier)<BR><BR>Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.<BR><BR>Just don't tell SolSec you have it.<BR><BR>Les<BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:59:39 -0500<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Wow.&nbsp; Look at all the Texans (was Re: Going to England(OT))<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 01:42 AM 10/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Hey, not all of us Texans live in the Dallas area ... just most of the<BR>&gt; &gt;delusional Cowboys fans ...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Isn't that redundant?<BR><BR>Well, "fan", short for "fanatic", and "delusional" are pretty much.<BR><BR>But Cowboys fans are worse.&nbsp; Most of them are fairweather fans.<BR>Which is worse than delusional in my book.<BR><BR>All boy in silent prayer for the SF Giants.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:06:09 -0400<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;Considering the Third Imperium is founded more than 2000 years after<BR>&gt;our own time, can you imagine the sort of legends that will have grown<BR>&gt;out of the exploits of our times?&nbsp; Especially if historical records are<BR>&gt;lost over the passage of time ...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Actually, Gerry, you came up with a better ObTrav than I could have. You<BR>probably wouldn't have to go back to our own time, though. Due to the lag in<BR>communications time, as well as the apparent fact that most people never<BR>travel all that far, there would probably be a brisk business in<BR>"travelogues". It certainly fits in with the "Age of Sail" feel of the<BR>Traveller universe (ala "Bougainville's Voyage" and the like).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Under these conditions even recent histories of other nearby worlds would<BR>be pretty wild and wooly. Unlike many ObTravs, this might even have an<BR>effect on adventures and campaigns. Important events said to have happened<BR>on one planet, might have actually happened on another planet, possibly a<BR>sector away. The same thing with locations. "No, no, no! The old Aslan mine<BR>isn't here on Robin's Rock, it's halfway across the Imperium on Robert's<BR>World."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:59:37 -0400<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>&gt;When things go wrong the Russians tend to start referring to the<BR>&gt;Devil's relatives. And the closer the relationship, the worse the<BR>&gt;situation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On the other hand, the French tend to refer to holy/reliogious items.<BR>&gt;"Tabernac!" (a reference to the Tabernacle, which is the "box" on the<BR>&gt;altar where the blessed hosts are kept) or "Sacre Blue" ("holy blue",<BR>&gt;no idea what *that* is a reference to).<BR><BR>That is a reference to the mantel of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and by way of<BR>inference to the Lady Herself. It is sky blue because as the mother of God<BR>she holds all the world in her mantel, which only the sky itself could<BR>cover. The imagery is Medieval in origin, and since France was traditionally<BR>primarily a Catholic country many of their oaths do have to religious<BR>themes.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:12:28 -0400<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>Dom wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>&gt;they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR><BR>Since I'm sure that lots of other folks will put the focus on sci-fi, I'm<BR>going to go light on the genre stuff. I'm also going to leave out sacred<BR>texts, such as the Bible, the Koran and on, simply because these books would<BR>take up way too many slots. Same thing with the works of Shakespeare, Edgar<BR>Allan Poe, Homer and so on.<BR><BR>Tentatively, I propose the following:<BR><BR>John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty and Other Essays" - This is a tough call, as<BR>Britain has so many wonderful philosophers.<BR><BR>Plato, "The Republic" - In a "good" Imperium, it's almost certain to be<BR>required reading for the nobility.<BR><BR>Lewis Mumford, "Technics and Civilization" - The seminal work on the effects<BR>of technological development on the way people think.<BR><BR>Paul Kennedy, "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change &amp;<BR>Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000" - Historically, it just doesn't get<BR>much better than this. Some claim that Kennedy missed the mark, mainly due<BR>to his extrapolations about the Cold War, but he wasn't off as wildly as<BR>some claim. The underlying theories are quite sound.<BR><BR>James Joyce, "Finnegan's Wake" - Although I've never actually read this one<BR>all the way through, I can't imagine even the total destruction of the human<BR>race eliminating.<BR><BR>Stephen King, "Danse Macabre" - In my humble opinion, King's best work. It's<BR>not fiction, but it is a fascinating look at what's scary, and to some<BR>extent why. The designers of the haunted house I went to at Eastern State<BR>Penitentiary tonight probably should have read this. Volkswagen banners<BR>every ten feet are not really all that frightening... actually, maybe the<BR>notion that a haunted house has banners for a car company everywhere you<BR>look is pretty scary.<BR><BR>William S. Burroughs, "Naked Lunch" - This is something of a tough call, as<BR>I could substitute any number of Burroughs's other books in this slot.<BR><BR>Kurt Vonnegut, "Mother Night" or "Breakfast of Champions" or<BR>"Slaughterhouse-5" - Frankly, I can't make up my mind here. All of them are<BR>fantastic, but I don't want to take up all of the last three slots.<BR><BR>Neil Postman, pretty much anything - While Postman's books are generally<BR>geared toward the U.S. in contemporary times, they generally cut quite a bit<BR>deeper. Can be imagined as companions to Mumford's "Technics and<BR>Civilization".<BR><BR>I can't come up with a tenth title, because there are way too many fantastic<BR>books. I reserve the right to add a tenth title when I can actually come up<BR>with one, which will probably never happen.<BR><BR>So there you have it. In retrospect, it was silly for me to think that I<BR>could make a list of ten books I'd want to see survive into the Imperium.<BR>The whole notion requires me to rip most of them out of their proper<BR>context. Postman, for example, works in tandem with Marshall McLuhan, at<BR>least to some extent. Both work well with Walter J. Ong and Eric Havelock.<BR><BR>ARGH!<BR><BR>Then there's Alisdair MacIntyre's "After Virtue", the plays of Eugene O'Neil<BR>("Long Day's Journey Into Night" especially), the poems of T.S. Eliot, e.e.<BR>cummings, Emily Dickenson... The plays of Moliere and Bertolt Brecht.<BR>Montaigne's essays. Joseph Campbell's "The Hero With A Thousand Faces".<BR><BR>Double ARGH! Damn and blast.<BR><BR>This is too difficult, and I am tired.<BR><BR>'Night.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:20:11 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>On 27 Oct 2000, at 1:12, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Plato, "The Republic" - In a "good" Imperium, it's almost certain to be<BR>&gt; required reading for the nobility.<BR><BR>Definately.<BR><BR>Another book I'd go for is Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations".<BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:04:30 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:48:54 +0100<BR>&gt; From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>&gt; they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR><BR>1) Lord of the Rings<BR>2) Catch 22<BR>3) Neuromancer<BR>4) Dune<BR>5) Shockwave Rider<BR>6) The Foundation trilogy<BR>7) Charlie and the Chocolate Factory<BR>8) The Phantom Tollbooth<BR>9) The Prophet<BR>10) The Moon is a Harsh Mistress<BR><BR>All chosen because at one time or another they were all<BR>my favorite book. (Current fave Neuromancer)<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Do you think that I'm crazy?<BR>Out of my mind?<BR>Do you think that I creep in the night<BR>And sleep in a phone booth?"<BR><BR>"Mother People" - Frank Zappa<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:29:00 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:28:49 -0400<BR>&gt; From: CatWhoLeaps &lt;catwholeaps@mac.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm just getting back into Trav after a 2 year hiatus.&nbsp; I own most of MT<BR>&gt; (except Hard Times :(, bits of CT and Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw.<BR>&gt; I'm interested in perhaps starting a Gurps Trav campaign (the background<BR>&gt; appeals).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Given I don't have infinite resources for buying Trav books, which Gurps<BR>&gt; books would I need in order of preference?&nbsp; Obviously Basic.&nbsp; Is Gurps<BR>Space<BR>&gt; necessary/useful? or the Compendiums? or would other books in the Gurps<BR>Trav<BR>&gt; line (Alien races and so on) be better?<BR><BR>Well in the order in which I purchased them<BR><BR>*GT: First In* is good for planetary details and details scout style<BR>campaigns.<BR>It's my personal favorite and even if I never run GT will have a hallowed<BR>spot<BR>on the shelves next to the WBH.<BR><BR>*GT: Far Trader* goes in depth and personal with economics. Good backdrop<BR>information but a little to close to an econ 101 text for general use.<BR>(imho)<BR><BR>*GT* Usefull I suppose but most of the info is already in the MT Imperial<BR>Encyclopedia and/or the CT Supplements Reprints. You'll need it for the<BR>GT specific background details and it's got the spaceship construction<BR>rules.<BR>(Which I'm not terribly impressed with personally.)<BR><BR>*GT AR1* Absolutely essential because it has the Vargr in it. GrrrrRuff!<BR>(The Vargr are the only non-humans I'll use in my not at all related to<BR>the 3I campaign that I'm going to get together sometime soon honest.)<BR><BR>and Finally *GURPS Basic* (So I bought them backward. Wanna make<BR>somethin' of it?) Which I still haven't been able to plow through. I suppose<BR>it doesn't help that I just dislike the whole advantages/disadvantages<BR>thing that's the heart of charecter creation.<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Do you think that I'm crazy?<BR>Out of my mind?<BR>Do you think that I creep in the night<BR>And sleep in a phone booth?<BR><BR>"Mother People" - Frank Zappa<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:26:52 -0700<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>DaveShayne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; All chosen because at one time or another they were all<BR>&gt; my favorite book. (Current fave Neuromancer)<BR><BR>Just think how primitive Neuromancer will seem to a civilization in which a<BR>vast majority of the people live at TL 14 to TL 16. Of course that also<BR>applies to almost all of the SF stuff.<BR><BR>So what is SF like at TL 14 to TL 16? That's what people read in the 3I.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:32:40 -0500<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Art vs. Business (was Re: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>[snip your kind words of agreement, which I appreciate.<BR>Now let's get to the heat!&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; ]<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The challenge for a game designer is to make *your*<BR>&gt; &gt; game first.&nbsp; Then try to sell it.&nbsp; But I think we're seeing the<BR>&gt; &gt; beginning of a new trend in table-top rpgs:&nbsp; Games want<BR>&gt; &gt; to be free.&nbsp; Electronic distribution and decreasing printing<BR>&gt; &gt; costs (actually the quality improvement of desktop publishing<BR>&gt; &gt; and printing resources, e.g., kinko's) means that more<BR>&gt; &gt; creators can get their creations out there.&nbsp; Look at BITS.<BR>&gt; &gt; It is a perfect example of this.&nbsp; Perhaps Dom and crew<BR>&gt; &gt; don't make enough on BITS products to quit their day<BR>&gt; &gt; jobs, but would you ever expect that?&nbsp; We're talking about<BR>&gt; &gt; *games*!&nbsp; Do you want the motivation for designing a<BR>&gt; &gt; game or game content be to pay the rent?&nbsp; To fill a marketing<BR>&gt; &gt; window?&nbsp; To make the Christmas rush?&nbsp; To get some<BR>&gt; &gt; "project" you have no passion for off your desk?&nbsp; To<BR>&gt; &gt; create something that is supposed to be fun and engaging<BR>&gt; &gt; because you *have* to?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was with you up to this point, now I must *strongly* disagree.&nbsp; I'm<BR>&gt; a full-time game designer, I haven't worked another job of any sort<BR>&gt; of the past 4 years.&nbsp; By normal US standards my income *sucks*,<BR>&gt; but my needs are modest and I can devote my full time and<BR>&gt; attention to my work.&nbsp; I know a great many free-lance game writers<BR>&gt; and almost all the best ones are either full time or would be full<BR>&gt; time if the pay didn't suck as badly as it does.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Your statement above sounds far too much like the standard crap<BR>&gt; I've heard about how "true art" shouldn't be about money, and so it<BR>&gt; doesn't need to pay.&nbsp; I happen to believe that sort of thinking is an<BR>&gt; ill-considered load of BS.&nbsp; So what if they are games? Writing a<BR>&gt; good game or a good supplement is hard work and if there were<BR>&gt; only amateurs and dilettantes in this business there would be fewer<BR>&gt; excellent products and *way* fewer products of all types.<BR><BR>Either I'm coming across too strong, or you're reading too much into<BR>what I said.&nbsp; Probably just my fault for staying on the rant slide too<BR>long.&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; I'll say definitely so.&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>What I'm basically saying that market motivation as the *primary*<BR>motivation is a problem.&nbsp; I tried to describe some of the negative<BR>motivations that I've heard from game developers, albeit mostly<BR>computer game developers.&nbsp; Probably, some of my points fail<BR>in making the leap from the desktop to the tabletop.&nbsp; Whether<BR>true or not, some categories of programmers and computer artists<BR>get treated as interchangeable units, which makes it easier for them<BR>to end up on projects they have no interest in.<BR><BR>Being able to make a living at game design is a rarity, free lancing<BR>or otherwise. It's a great thing, sure, as long as your heart is in it.<BR>It seems to me, in my unscientific survey of the game industry,<BR>that often, or at least in important cases, the game creators are<BR>the core of the company.&nbsp; Marc Miller is Traveller/GDW/Far<BR>Futures (ok, and Loren.&nbsp; &lt;grin&gt;&nbsp; And Chadwick, et al. Gygax<BR>WAS D&amp;D/TSR. Steve Jackson is Ogre/Car Wars/Killer/GURPS.<BR>I think it is more difficult for the business to trump the artistic<BR>motivation when the art comes from the top.&nbsp; It's probably easier<BR>to prevent business from getting too much in the way.&nbsp; Of course,<BR>I haven't created my own game company yet, so I don't know for<BR>sure.<BR><BR>But I'd pay good money to see Mssrs. Miller, Gygax,<BR>Jackson, and all the other really important game design people I<BR>can't think of at the moment, in an open-ended round-table or<BR>panel discussion, preferably with drinks, talking about their<BR>experiences in the game industry!<BR><BR>If you're able to pay the rent as a free-lance game designer -<BR>Well Kick Ass!&nbsp; But you do have a lot of freedom in what<BR>you choose to do don't you?&nbsp; At least more than some one<BR>who gets lucky enough to be hired by a big, already-established<BR>game publisher only to be assigned to projects he doesn't like,<BR>right?&nbsp; So, I'm not worried about your motivation.&nbsp; But I might<BR>get worried about the other guy.&nbsp; If a person can make a living<BR>at game design, great.&nbsp; But, as you said, that is a rarity.<BR><BR>Here's another way to take my point:&nbsp; just because most people<BR>who would like to design game and game material can't afford to<BR>do that and pay the rent, they shouldn't deter themselves from<BR>trying.&nbsp; That's why I like B.I.T.S. so much.&nbsp; Lots of great stuff<BR>from unpaid contributors.&nbsp; Dom and crew keep still have to<BR>have day jobs, at least I think that is still the case, but they continue<BR>to publish cool stuff.&nbsp; (See my full disclosure statement below).<BR>That is where I think publishing costs and electronic distribution<BR>are beginning to make a difference.&nbsp; And PayPal!&nbsp; I think/hope<BR>that is where the next gaming revolution is.&nbsp; Or at least one of the<BR>revolutions.&nbsp; Whatever gets more cool stuff in front of me makes<BR>me happy, as long as it doesn't all have the d20 stamp of approval<BR>on it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'm proud of being a freelancer, it allows me to pick and choose my<BR>&gt; projects.&nbsp; In the vast majority of cases I work on lines and projects<BR>&gt; because I think the project is really cool, or I love the line and want<BR>&gt; to write something for it.&nbsp; It's not about "just paying the rent" for me<BR>&gt; or for any other serious freelancer I know.&nbsp; If it was we'd be in a<BR>&gt; different line of work.&nbsp; We do the work because we love the job.<BR>&gt; We work hard and deserve to be paid a living wage.<BR><BR>Amen.<BR><BR>Full Disclosure:&nbsp; I've contributed to a couple of BITS products, and<BR>helped write GT:Far Trader.&nbsp; And I'm now Assistant Producer for<BR>Traveller Online at Cornered Rat Software/Playnet.&nbsp; Don't worry,<BR>I can tell you . . . .<BR>&lt;Sgt. Schultz Mode&gt;NOTHING!&nbsp; I KNOW NOTHING! &lt;/Sgt. Schultz Mode&gt;<BR><BR>More about that in separate post.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:45:01 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Furries<BR><BR>On 26 Oct 2000, at 20:39, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Loren "Every hobby looks deranged to outsiders . . . EXCEPT MINE!" Wiseman<BR><BR>Isn't that the essence of a Trufan?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:31:53 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Next time I'm in Brisbane, I'll drop by the Queensland Museum and get<BR>&gt; Mephisto to bless your dice for you.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mephisto, of course, is the last surviving A7V.&nbsp; She was abandoned after<BR>&gt; becoming bogged, and was captured by Australian troops.<BR><BR>Now I know of something worth seeing in Brisbane !<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Come to think of it, she may very well have been the only tank in <BR>&gt; Australia for some years after WW1, and maybe even up until WW2!<BR><BR>Nah, there was at least one home made Australian tank made in that period. <BR>IIRC it was based on Lewis Carrier chassis.<BR><BR>&gt; I visit her every few months, just to say hello.<BR><BR>Hmm... <BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:44:38 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Furries<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ObTrav: Sorry, for once I'm at a loss.&nbsp; Though... hmm, we <BR>&gt; know xenophiles <BR>&gt; exist in Larry' Niven's Known Space, think that in the OTU or <BR>&gt; IYTU there <BR>&gt; might be bands of human Vargr groupies? (vargies? Better not <BR>&gt; say that in <BR>&gt; hearing distance of the Kfouruzeng!) or even the other way <BR>&gt; around, Human <BR>&gt; groupies?&nbsp; Would they be called 'humies?'<BR><BR>Certainly not in the official universe...Xenophilia that extreme is most<BR>certainly not PG! IYTU, however, there's no reason that that kind of thing<BR>can't go on (other than the GM having some taste)...rather embarassingly<BR>there was a woman in my own county recently arrested for doing things with<BR>one of the Vargr's un-Uplifted cousins, but that's enough of that. Could<BR>even make for some good plot hooks, if handled delicately.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; [1] For anyone curious, this was mentioned in the movie <BR>&gt; 'Trekkies.'&nbsp; I've <BR>&gt; yet to see a movie called 'Furries,' which leads me to <BR>&gt; believe that most <BR>&gt; people couldn't give a harpsichord about furry fandom. =)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Prolly.<BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:51:52 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of SD Mooney<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, 27 October 2000 11:51<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: re: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At 15:45 -0400 26/10/00, "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Well, my take on ICE's failure, they neglected the reason they<BR>&gt; &gt;were created, and their primary product, the Iron Crown line of<BR>&gt; &gt;Middle Earth Modules.&nbsp; Instead of pushing this line and creating the<BR>&gt; &gt;product most people wanted and _collected_, they pushed through the<BR>&gt; &gt;proverbial "better mousetrap" in rules and lost a followership.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; &gt;1st Ed. rules were fine the way they were.&nbsp; What they needed to<BR>&gt; &gt;create and continue were the modules, and they had several "layers"<BR>&gt; &gt;of modules.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think that a major contributor behind ICE's problems is the fact<BR>&gt; that they lost the LotR licence during their restructuring.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Shame, with the film coming out.<BR><BR>But it's boosted the prices of the already published ICE works !<BR><BR>Especially here in Wellington where they're filming part of it.<BR><BR>I believe some ICE modules are being used in the film. I know some were<BR>bought at a local 2nd hand bookstore by one of the film's graphic designers.<BR>He, of course, could neither confirm nor deny that he was buying them for<BR>the film...<BR><BR>Anyone want any photos of the Minas Tirith set ?<BR>It's just over the valley from where I live, all I need is a good telephoto<BR>lens...<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:04:30 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm [mailto:jenry023@student.liu.se]<BR>&gt; Sent: 27 October 2000 00:29<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This whole package of bad news was one that I really, really didn't<BR>&gt; need. I got it from the Rolemaster Mailing List a few hours <BR>&gt; ago (when I<BR>&gt; began checking my mail).<BR><BR>I'm pretty gutted myself, Jens...Privateers looked like a promising line and<BR>now I have no chance of getting the original SpaM line reprinted :( . I<BR>started roleplay on RM LotR.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Oh well... I'll survive. I still have my bookshelf of RM rules and<BR>&gt; supplements. I'm really sad about the whole thing though.<BR><BR>Same here...I managed to complete my RM collection just before the new<BR>edition came out.<BR><BR>&gt; SD Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I think that a major contributor behind ICE's problems is the fact<BR>&gt; &gt; that they lost the LotR licence during their restructuring.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Absolutely.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I think that the LotR licence was lost because of the previous declaration<BR>of bankruptcy.<BR><BR>As far as Eric's worries about Marc or SJG going the same way as ICE, I'm<BR>not to worried at present. SJG seem (to me) to be in pretty good shape ATM,<BR>with lots of new licences coming in. The Deadlands licence is bound to bring<BR>in new players and create cross-pollination of the customer base for both<BR>SJG and PEG (Deadlands is a real popular line and SJG are planning a series<BR>of sourcebooks like ), the success of the Traveller line is impressive and<BR>has generated business for both FFE and SJG (mine if nothing else, I've got<BR>advanced orders at my FLGS for the entire canon!).<BR>Obvoisly, I can't speak too far in the future for both companies, but the<BR>coherent background and wide fanbase of Traveller should stand it in good<BR>stead should anything bad happen to our publishers.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:40:36 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Alberti, Joe (TRANS)<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2000 10:08 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re:On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From Ian Whitchurch<BR>&gt; &gt; This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me. The Solomani offensive<BR>&gt; &gt; should have run out of steam at or about Capital.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I agree.<BR>&gt; When I read Hard Times for the first time, this was one of my biggest<BR>&gt; surprises.&nbsp; The Rebellion lasted 13 years (Virus in 1130), and the<BR>&gt; Confederation was fighting divided foes.&nbsp; The Solomani seemed to<BR>&gt; have taken<BR>&gt; no more territory than they had in 1120. Even with sections of the<BR>&gt; population against the war and many High Population worlds to<BR>&gt; garrison, the<BR>&gt; Solomani should have done better.&nbsp; Once the Black War started and Lucan<BR>&gt; started blasting worlds with nuclear weapons, the Solomani would have an<BR>&gt; example to follow.&nbsp; High population worlds under siege would be prime<BR>&gt; candidates for bombarment.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I am guessing the one of the reasons why the Solomani did so<BR>&gt; poorly is that<BR>&gt; their military commanders were&nbsp; more politicians than strategists.&nbsp; With a<BR>&gt; weakened and divided foe, a full industrial base to support them, and a<BR>&gt; secure border with the Hivers and rimward, they should have done better.<BR>&gt; Another cause could be the Confederation government is terribly<BR>&gt; inefficient<BR>&gt; and full of political infighting and extreme factionalism. The only<BR>&gt; references I have on the Confederation government are the Rebellion<BR>&gt; Sourcebook and the Traveller Solomani Alien Module.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Maybe SolSec struck a secret deal with Lucan or just maybe the<BR>&gt; Solomani are<BR>&gt; not the supermen they say they are.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Joe Alberti<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Could also have been the zampolit assigned to each ship looking over the<BR>captains shoulders, giving helpful suggestions etc.<BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:08:01 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Fwd: message from Eric Holmes on the ICE collapse<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anyone want any photos of the Minas Tirith set ?<BR>&gt; It's just over the valley from where I live, all I need is a <BR>&gt; good telephoto<BR>&gt; lens...<BR>&gt; &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>LOL. &lt;/serious face&gt; Yes. &lt;\serious face&gt;<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:15:08 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>Steven Hudson<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; The only two sources of micro-scale TL 5 vehicles I have found<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; are Scotia and Irregular.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Do Ros/Heroics and GHQ no longer manufacture WWI/WWII vehicles&nbsp; ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I was told not (IIRC) by the serious collector in our group.<BR><BR>Hmm, this intrigued me, so I did a quick web search.<BR><BR>While I couldn't find any reference to Ros/Heroics on the web, I did find<BR>that<BR>GHQ is supposedly still selling WWII Micro Armour at least :<BR><BR>&nbsp; http://www.ghqmodels.com/ww2armor.html<BR><BR>7.95 per pack of 5, and GHQ always used to very good quality.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:15:08 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On 26 Oct 2000, at 22:40, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Alberti, Joe (TRANS)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Maybe SolSec struck a secret deal with Lucan or just maybe the<BR>&gt; &gt; Solomani are<BR>&gt; &gt; not the supermen they say they are.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Joe Alberti<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Could also have been the zampolit assigned to each ship looking over the<BR>&gt; captains shoulders, giving helpful suggestions etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Antony<BR><BR>Fallen a long way from when they managed to mangle the 3I in the Rim War, then.<BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3227<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 27 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3228<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>RE: Landgrab: Yori ... update<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Furries<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>Re: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR>Re: Art vs. Business (was Re: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Books that survived..<BR>re: Art vs. Business (was Re: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR>Science Fiction: a Dead Genre<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3226<BR>Gilgamesh and Vilani Fiction<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>RE: Furries<BR>RE: Furries<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:48:51 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of SD Mooney<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, 27 October 2000 6:49 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Books that survived...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>&gt; they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive<BR>&gt; because it was even funnier)<BR>&gt; ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Homo hominen lupus est" ("Man is a wolf to man")<BR>&gt; http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>I would say that the Aslan would ensure that Barbara Hambleys Chanur series<BR>survived.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:01:15 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Landgrab: Yori ... update<BR><BR>Luther Martin wrote:<BR>&gt; The bit about the Undersea is excellent. If any place ever <BR>&gt; demanded to be explored, this is it.<BR><BR>A number of people have said this.&nbsp; There is a series of 3 linked<BR>adventures (the first of which has already been posted) the third<BR>of which is going to&nbsp; include&nbsp; exploring&nbsp; a&nbsp; little&nbsp; bit&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>Undersea.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'm not sure about the Delgado GR-402S Gauss LAG, with _twice_<BR>&gt; the muzzle velocity of a typical Gauss weapon. That's a huge<BR>&gt; difference.&nbsp; With twice the muzzle velocity, it should be an<BR>&gt; _extremely_ deadly weapon.<BR><BR>The Gauss LAG stats and the bit about the&nbsp; muzzle&nbsp; velocity&nbsp; came<BR>straight out of a Challenge magazine article (it should say which<BR>issue at the end of the paragraph).&nbsp; I came up with the name&nbsp; for<BR>'colour'.&nbsp; If the design of the Gauss LAG is flawed its not&nbsp; down<BR>to me.&nbsp; (On the other hand the design of the Gull&nbsp; fighter/bomber<BR>is completely bogus!)<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; The description of the cities is extremely useful, as is the <BR>&gt; description of trade.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Scarland battallions are designed for use in plains areas,<BR>&gt; but are very infantry-heavy. If the terrain is more open, armor<BR>&gt; rules.<BR><BR>The *desert* is open and thus&nbsp; the&nbsp; Desert-style&nbsp; battalions&nbsp; are<BR>armour heavy, true, but I saw the&nbsp; Scarland-style&nbsp; battalions&nbsp; as<BR>being used more in urban settings ... Scarland is a patchwork&nbsp; of<BR>small towns and little farms (plus a few big cities).&nbsp; Of course,<BR>you could also explain it away as a planning&nbsp; mistake&nbsp; by&nbsp; Yori's<BR>inexperienced military.&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>If you use this IYTU you could always&nbsp; swap&nbsp; half&nbsp; the&nbsp; Scarland-<BR>style battalions for Desert-style battalions.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Overall, an excellent bit of work.<BR><BR>Thanks.&nbsp; To come are the&nbsp; 2nd&nbsp; and&nbsp; 3rd&nbsp; adventures&nbsp; I&nbsp; mentioned<BR>above, capsule descriptions of some&nbsp; key&nbsp; people&nbsp; (including&nbsp; the<BR>Yorian Army general, a Vargr(!) Advisor), a write-up on&nbsp; Research<BR>Station Beta, and possible something on the A'chim Papers.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:04:19 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>On 27 Oct 2000, at 17:48, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I would say that the Aslan would ensure that Barbara Hambleys Chanur series<BR>&gt; survived.<BR><BR>C J Cheeryh's, not Brabara Hambly's<BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:54:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Furries<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; And if the Trek fans still point fingers and laugh at the furries, one can <BR>&gt; always remind them of such things as where 'slash' stories originated from, <BR>&gt; and the eternal classic fanfic, 'The Secret Logs of Mistress Janeway.'[1] =)<BR><BR>Does this actually exist? And if so, where might I find a copy?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:19:50 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 04:16 PM 10/26/00 -0700, someone wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; because it was even funnier)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just don't tell SolSec you have it.<BR><BR>SolSec would be even *less* happy about "Anthem".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:21:45 +0100<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Frank G. Pitt [mailto:frankie@mundens.gen.nz]<BR>&gt; Sent: 27 October 2000 09:15<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Steven Hudson<BR>&gt; &gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The only two sources of micro-scale TL 5 vehicles I have found<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; are Scotia and Irregular.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Do Ros/Heroics and GHQ no longer manufacture WWI/WWII vehicles&nbsp; ?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I was told not (IIRC) by the serious collector in our group.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hmm, this intrigued me, so I did a quick web search.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While I couldn't find any reference to Ros/Heroics on the <BR>&gt; web,<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Probably because the company name is Heroics &amp; Ros...<BR><BR>They are a part of NavWar, so try this link:<BR><BR>http://www.navwar.freeserve.co.uk/<BR><BR>As for non-uk suppliers try searching for navwar or heroics + ros...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:19:14 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Re: ALERT Brubek's Tee shirts<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;These just arrived and will be up and available through warehouse 23 very<BR>&gt;soon (like tonight maybe). They are limited edition, and are for the<BR>Regina<BR>&gt;Brubek's. When these are gone, there will be no more (when we do another<BR>&gt;run of Brubek's shirts, they will be for another location), so if you want<BR>&gt;one, act quickly.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Two questions:<BR><BR>First who 'designed' them (or the logo on them)?&nbsp; I ask for bibliographic<BR>purposes obviously.<BR><BR>Second, having never bought a t-shirt over the web how on earth do I know<BR>what size to order?&nbsp; Do the XXXL, XXL, XL, and L actually relate to real<BR>world figures anywhere?&nbsp; (I'm a little over six foot but fairly slender in<BR>frame).<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:34:13 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Art vs. Business (was Re: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Either I'm coming across too strong, or you're reading too much into<BR>&gt; what I said.&nbsp; Probably just my fault for staying on the rant slide too<BR>&gt; long.&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; I'll say definitely so.&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>Fair enough<BR><BR>&gt; What I'm basically saying that market motivation as the *primary*<BR>&gt; motivation is a problem.&nbsp; I tried to describe some of the negative<BR>&gt; motivations that I've heard from game developers, albeit mostly<BR>&gt; computer game developers.&nbsp; Probably, some of my points fail in making<BR>&gt; the leap from the desktop to the tabletop.&nbsp; Whether true or not, some<BR>&gt; categories of programmers and computer artists get treated as<BR>&gt; interchangeable units, which makes it easier for them to end up on<BR>&gt; projects they have no interest in.<BR><BR>I know a few folks who have made the jump to computer games.&nbsp; <BR>It's a *very* different field, primarily because it seems to me to be <BR>far more competitive, cutthroat, &amp; corporate.&nbsp; Then again, from the <BR>stories I've heard, WOTC is also much like this.&nbsp; The problem is <BR>not IMHO about money or payment.&nbsp; <BR><BR>White Wolf is a highly successful company.&nbsp; Folks working for <BR>WW make good money (for the gaming industry).&nbsp; However, they <BR>are run in a far less draconian and stereotypically corporate model <BR>than WOTC.&nbsp; My opinion of modern corporate culture is very low, I <BR>consider it to be extremely antithetical create work.&nbsp; The various&nbsp; <BR>Dilbertesque stories I've heard about both WOTC and various <BR>computer game companies are far from encouraging. <BR><BR>As I see it, avoiding such pitfall has little to do with paying folks a <BR>living wage, and more to do with company size and general <BR>worldview.&nbsp; Putting creativity first in no way inhibits making a living <BR>wage, and earning good money doing something need not inhibit <BR>creativity.&nbsp; However, once you get to treating something as more of <BR>a source of money than as an art or craft that you care deeply <BR>about, you're not doing your best work, and are likely to produce <BR>crap. <BR><BR>Unpaid or low paid art can have very similar pitfalls.&nbsp; If you write <BR>something primarily because you wish to impress fans with your <BR>brilliance, because you want everyone to play the game *your <BR>way*, or because you are using what you write to consciously <BR>pound some moral or philosophical point into your reader's head <BR>(I've seen all of these happen) then quality suffers (usually quite <BR>badly).&nbsp; Money has nothing to do with this problem, motivation <BR>does.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Money *can* be a poor motivation, but is certainly not the only one. <BR>Some free or poorly paid gaming work is quite good, much is bad <BR>because the writer have little talent, and some of it sucks because <BR>the writers were driven by motivations such as I described above.&nbsp; <BR>A well-paid editorial staff using professional writers can avoid many <BR>of these pitfalls.&nbsp; Doing this has it's own problems, but they are <BR>IMHO no worse than those of unpaid or poorly paid work.<BR>As I see it, if the pay were somewhat better there would be more <BR>good work, not less.&nbsp; The key is doing this in a way that keep <BR>creative decisions out of the hands of stockholders, greedy CEOs, <BR>ambitious vice-presidents and similar fools. <BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:44:06 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived..<BR><BR>At 21:58 -0400 26/10/00,&nbsp; John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;_This Kind of War: A Study in Unpreparedness_, by T.R. Fehrenbach<BR>&gt;"The Illuminatus! Trilogy", by Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea<BR>&gt;_The Past Through Tomorrow_, by Robert Heinlein<BR>&gt;_Time Travelers Strictly Cash_, by Spider Robinson<BR>&gt;_The Guns of the South_, by Harry Turtledove<BR>&gt;_Atlas Shrugged_, by Ayn Rand<BR>&gt;_Fields of Battle: The Wars for North America_, by John Keegan<BR>&gt;_On War_, by Karl von Clausewitz<BR>&gt;_Principia Discordia_ (SJG edition)<BR>&gt;_The Prince_, by Nicolo Machiavelli<BR><BR>Interesting mix...<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive<BR>&gt; &gt; because it was even funnier)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The original version (by S. Morgenstern) in the original Florinese, or<BR>&gt;William Goldman's "the good parts" English translation?<BR><BR>William Goldman's ;-)<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:00:09 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Art vs. Business (was Re: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>At 4:15 -0400 27/10/00, Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;That's why I like B.I.T.S. so much.&nbsp; Lots of great stuff<BR>&gt;from unpaid contributors.&nbsp; Dom and crew keep still have to<BR>&gt;have day jobs, at least I think that is still the case, but they continue<BR>&gt;to publish cool stuff.<BR><BR>&lt;blush&gt; Thanks...<BR><BR>Martin Dougherty has gone full time freelance now, but that has cut <BR>back the time he has available for BITS (but he's been doing great <BR>stuff with fiction factory etc).<BR><BR>Andy and myself, plus all the others still have full time jobs. I was <BR>briefly out of engineering a couple of years back and looked into it <BR>but reckoned (at the rate I write) I'd need to move to the US to have <BR>a chance at being full time (living costs are lower generally). <BR>Admittedly, both Andy and I have discussed about making BITS a full <BR>time company when we win the lottery. (I seem to remember Loren <BR>mentioning GDW 2 in a similar way ;-) ).<BR><BR>We rely on a lot of people's time and effort to keep BITS going - <BR>that's time and effort that sees very little monetary return. People <BR>like Doug Berry, James Lindsay, Tim Collinson, Rob Prior and David <BR>Thomas (*) have contributed a hell of a lot, which has enriched the <BR>Traveller community no end. Their main reward is seeing their work in <BR>print.<BR><BR>(*) This is not meant to knock anyone else's efforts. We're grateful <BR>for them all.<BR><BR>Without the dedication of everyone, BITS would have a very small <BR>output rate, and probably be struggling to go on.<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:53:39 -0400<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>I don't often contribute to this sort of thread, but:<BR><BR>I'd like to make a plea for _The Epic of Gilgamesh_. As arguably the oldest<BR>surviving literary work on Earth, the basis for a number of other similar<BR>epics and heros, and one of the few works that is even comparable in age to<BR>the Ziru Sirka, it deserves to be carried on into the far future in canon<BR>as well. Gilgamesh, King of Uruk, wanted to live forever: he's made it<BR>through c. 4,600 years so far (in memory, if not in fact), and I'd like to<BR>see him get his chance out through 8,300 years and beyond.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:03:21 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Samuel D. Weiss wrote:<BR>&gt; Piper's Terro-Human Future History series.<BR><BR>As much as I like H. Beam Piper's work, I doubt that very much<BR>contemporary science fiction is going to survive the Long Night,<BR>mainly because (a) there's no point in reading fantasies about<BR>interstellar voyages and exotic alien worlds when such things are<BR>perfectly ordinary facts of everyday life and (b) all of today's<BR>science fiction authors will have gotten most of the technical <BR>details *wrong*, probably *grossly* wrong.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:03:10 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't often contribute to this sort of thread, but:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd like to make a plea for _The Epic of Gilgamesh_. As <BR>&gt; arguably the oldest<BR>&gt; surviving literary work on Earth, the basis for a number of <BR>&gt; other similar<BR>&gt; epics and heros, and one of the few works that is even <BR>&gt; comparable in age to<BR>&gt; the Ziru Sirka, it deserves to be carried on into the far <BR>&gt; future in canon<BR>&gt; as well. Gilgamesh, King of Uruk, wanted to live forever: he's made it<BR>&gt; through c. 4,600 years so far (in memory, if not in fact), <BR>&gt; and I'd like to<BR>&gt; see him get his chance out through 8,300 years and beyond.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Seconded.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 06:10:46 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR><BR>Can you imagine how confusing this period may appear to people looking<BR>back over several thousand years?<BR><BR>For instance, when we look back at ancient Egypt, we have a set of<BR>images formed in our minds that are pretty homogenous for the nearly<BR>4000 years of Egyptian greatness -- the Pharoes (sp?) all wore<BR>viper-pilot helmets and everyone else went around in white linen loin<BR>cloths and togas.<BR><BR>Now, on giving it any thought, we'd realize that fashions changed<BR>throughout the period -- maybe not as fast as they do now, but the<BR>folks at the beginning of the Egyptian period would not dress anything<BR>like the folks at the end.<BR><BR>That being said, our society has changed quite rapidly over the past<BR>half century.&nbsp; Some movie producer 2000 years from now, steeped in<BR>popular misconceptions, might do a "historical drama" wherein Ronald<BR>Reagan is portrayed in stovepipe hat, bowtie and tails, or the British<BR>troops at Isandlwana wear desert camouflage BDUs.&nbsp; Only historians<BR>would probably have any conception of the clothing styles for a<BR>particlar period, and even then they may be mistaken in some<BR>particulars.<BR><BR>Yeah, there's lots of long-lived garbage out there for archaeologists<BR>to sift through, but much of it was laid down in a relatively short<BR>period (less than a century), and this is going to lead to some major<BR>academic arguments over timelines, tech levels, et al.&nbsp; Suppose some<BR>archaeologist stumbles upon a 20th century junkyard.&nbsp; You've got<BR>decades worth of vehicles all jumbled together.&nbsp; Without access to the<BR>manufacturer's records he's going to have a hard time organizing his<BR>finds in chronological order, let alone sorting out makes and models.<BR><BR>- --- Alan Bradley &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Gerry Harris <BR>&gt; &gt; Considering the Third Imperium is founded more than 2000 years<BR>&gt; after<BR>&gt; &gt; our own time, can you imagine the sort of legends that will have<BR>&gt; grown<BR>&gt; &gt; out of the exploits of our times?&nbsp; Especially if historical records<BR>&gt; are<BR>&gt; &gt; lost over the passage of time ...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The key is that this is "The Plastic Age".&nbsp; No past, and hopefully no<BR>&gt; future periods of history will have left such a vast quantity of<BR>&gt; long-lasting relic cultural material (read: junk) behind.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This will be remembered as the time of Ronald McDonald, of Bart<BR>&gt; Simpson, of<BR>&gt; Barbie, and as the time of all the other bits of plastic crap which<BR>&gt; our<BR>&gt; civilisation has churned out in the last few (and next few) decades. <BR>&gt; (In<BR>&gt; grumpy and cynical mode:&nbsp; how appropriate.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Alan Bradley<BR>&gt; alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:15:25 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Science Fiction: a Dead Genre<BR><BR>On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Luther Martin wrote:<BR>&gt; So what is SF like at TL 14 to TL 16? That's what people read in the 3I.<BR><BR>Technology just creeps along in the Third Imperium and most of the rest of<BR>the "Traveller" universe.&nbsp; A character from Plankwell's era would have<BR>very little trouble understanding the technology of Cleon I's era, or<BR>Strephon's era (the differences are almost purely in degrees of scale and<BR>refinement). I suspect that "science fiction" as we understand it wouldn't<BR>exist at all, and that writers and artists would tend to envision the<BR>future, and the past, looking *more* like the present that it should, or<BR>did (rather like a medieval European artists depicting Alexander the Great<BR>with military equipment from his own [the artist's] era).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:14:42 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3226<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:28:49 -0400<BR>&gt;From: CatWhoLeaps &lt;catwholeaps@mac.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;P.S. Anyone hiding out on Long Island that plays Trav?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>How far out on the Island are you? I'm over on Staten Island, and work in <BR>Brooklyn, but I'm not afraid of making a Trav run once in a while. =)<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:32:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Gilgamesh and Vilani Fiction<BR><BR>On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Christopher Thrash wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't often contribute to this sort of thread, but:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd like to make a plea for _The Epic of Gilgamesh_. As arguably the oldest<BR>&gt; surviving literary work on Earth, the basis for a number of other similar<BR>&gt; epics and heros, and one of the few works that is even comparable in age to<BR>&gt; the Ziru Sirka, it deserves to be carried on into the far future in canon<BR>&gt; as well. Gilgamesh, King of Uruk, wanted to live forever: he's made it<BR>&gt; through c. 4,600 years so far (in memory, if not in fact), and I'd like to<BR>&gt; see him get his chance out through 8,300 years and beyond.<BR><BR>I kind of like the idea of "The Epic of Gilgamesh" surviving, too.&nbsp; Of<BR>course, it just makes me wonder about Vilani fiction.&nbsp; I suspect that<BR>Vilani readers don't think particularly highly of "originality," so Vilani<BR>authors routinely build upon existing stories, adding their own decorative<BR>touches, minor characters, sub-plots, and so forth, while striving to<BR>remain "true to the spirit of the original work."&nbsp; There might a special<BR>type of "literary specialist," a sort of combination critic-and-editor, to<BR>help guide indecisive readers through the proliferating branches of<BR>popular stories (and, perhaps, to keep authors building upon the same<BR>material from stepping on each other's toes too often).<BR><BR>Of course, Vilani copyright law would be "different," to say the very<BR>least (I suspect they would use the old Roman theory of "the painting<BR>belongs to whoever owns the board it's painted on").<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:34:37 EDT<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt;(a) there's no point in reading fantasies about<BR>&gt;interstellar voyages and exotic alien worlds when such things are<BR>&gt;perfectly ordinary facts of everyday life and (b) all of today's<BR>&gt;science fiction authors will have gotten most of the technical<BR>&gt;details *wrong*, probably *grossly* wrong.<BR><BR>Which is why no-one reads H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, or Arthur Conan Doyle any <BR>more.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:29:25 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Furries<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:44:38 +0100<BR>&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Furries<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ObTrav: Sorry, for once I'm at a loss.&nbsp; Though... hmm, we<BR>&gt; &gt; know xenophiles<BR>&gt; &gt; exist in Larry' Niven's Known Space, think that in the OTU or<BR>&gt; &gt; IYTU there<BR>&gt; &gt; might be bands of human Vargr groupies? (vargies? Better not<BR>&gt; &gt; say that in<BR>&gt; &gt; hearing distance of the Kfouruzeng!) or even the other way<BR>&gt; &gt; around, Human<BR>&gt; &gt; groupies?&nbsp; Would they be called 'humies?'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Certainly not in the official universe...Xenophilia that extreme is most<BR>&gt;certainly not PG! IYTU, however, there's no reason that that kind of thing<BR>&gt;can't go on (other than the GM having some taste)...rather embarassingly<BR>&gt;there was a woman in my own county recently arrested for doing things with<BR>&gt;one of the Vargr's un-Uplifted cousins, but that's enough of that. Could<BR>&gt;even make for some good plot hooks, if handled delicately.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; [1] For anyone curious, this was mentioned in the movie<BR>&gt; &gt; 'Trekkies.'&nbsp; I've<BR>&gt; &gt; yet to see a movie called 'Furries,' which leads me to<BR>&gt; &gt; believe that most<BR>&gt; &gt; people couldn't give a harpsichord about furry fandom. =)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Prolly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dean<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>Eeep!&nbsp; Actually, what I'd been suggestiong was more 'groupies.'&nbsp; As an <BR>example, some envirofans would have a strong sense of respect and concern <BR>for, say, the endangered grey wolves.&nbsp; While not professional zoologists, <BR>they would learn all they can get their hands on about wolves, and perhaps <BR>go to that wolf preserve in Michigan (I think it's called Wolf Park?)&nbsp; This <BR>is more along what I was talking about, not.. erm, the other thing!<BR><BR>The impresison I got from Larry Niven's use of the term 'xenophile' was <BR>that they were 'alien groupies' -- people who were anything but afraid of <BR>aliens and in fact had a strong interest in learning about them and/or <BR>spending time with them, just because they were alien; offhand, I'd like to <BR>think that's reasonably PG enough -- maybe even G -- for your standard Trav <BR>universe. =)<BR><BR>Yeesh... I'd better drop this subject while I still still can. =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:37:44 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Furries<BR><BR>&gt; Eeep!&nbsp; Actually, what I'd been suggestiong was more <BR>&gt; 'groupies.'&nbsp; As an <BR>&gt; example, some envirofans would have a strong sense of respect <BR>&gt; and concern <BR>&gt; for, say, the endangered grey wolves.&nbsp; While not professional <BR>&gt; zoologists, <BR>&gt; they would learn all they can get their hands on about <BR>&gt; wolves, and perhaps <BR>&gt; go to that wolf preserve in Michigan (I think it's called <BR>&gt; Wolf Park?)&nbsp; This <BR>&gt; is more along what I was talking about, not.. erm, the other thing!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The impresison I got from Larry Niven's use of the term <BR>&gt; 'xenophile' was <BR>&gt; that they were 'alien groupies' -- people who were anything <BR>&gt; but afraid of <BR>&gt; aliens and in fact had a strong interest in learning about <BR>&gt; them and/or <BR>&gt; spending time with them, just because they were alien; <BR>&gt; offhand, I'd like to <BR>&gt; think that's reasonably PG enough -- maybe even G -- for your <BR>&gt; standard Trav <BR>&gt; universe. =)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeesh... I'd better drop this subject while I still still can. =)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Oh! Miscommunication...apologies! Yeah, Xenophiles rather that XXXenophiles.<BR>:) I'd go along with that.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:48:43 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'm just getting back into Trav after a 2 year hiatus.&nbsp; I own most of MT<BR>&gt;(except Hard Times :(, bits of CT and Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw.<BR>&gt;I'm interested in perhaps starting a Gurps Trav campaign (the background<BR>&gt;appeals).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Given I don't have infinite resources for buying Trav books, which Gurps<BR>&gt;books would I need in order of preference?&nbsp; Obviously Basic.&nbsp; Is Gurps <BR>&gt;Space<BR>&gt;necessary/useful? or the Compendiums? or would other books in the Gurps <BR>&gt;Trav<BR>&gt;line (Alien races and so on) be better?<BR><BR>If you have CT/MT/TNE/T4, you don't need Space (recommended if you have <BR>interest in non-Trav games or even just writing sci-fi, though). You don't <BR>even really need Basic. Just get the free GURPS Lite and wing it. Alien <BR>Races would probably be useful (I don't have it), but probably not <BR>absolutely necessary do to the fact that the Vargr and Zhodani were covered <BR>a bit in the core GT book. You might want Psionics, but you could proabably <BR>just adapted the normal Trav rules to GURPS.<BR><BR>My suggestion to you is to use another Trav edition to play in the GT <BR>timeline.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3228<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (rly-yh03.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.35]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:53:52 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:53:19 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA35045;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:49:55 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:49:15 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id JAA35000<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:49:15 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:49:15 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010271349.JAA35000@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3228<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><FONT  BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3229</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 27 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3229<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR>
RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
Re: Furries [OT and Off-Thread, too!]<BR>
RE: Red Zones<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
Virus And The Civilizations That Contract It<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Autodynamics?<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
RE: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Tee sizes<BR>
RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3228<BR>
RE: Tee sizes<BR>
Re: Odd Question<BR>
Re: Books that survived<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:50:26 -0400<BR>
From: "K. David Meit" <kdmeit@home.com><BR>
Subject: unsubscribe<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:24:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Paul Drye wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >(a) there's no point in reading fantasies about<BR>
> >interstellar voyages and exotic alien worlds when such things are<BR>
> >perfectly ordinary facts of everyday life and (b) all of today's<BR>
> >science fiction authors will have gotten most of the technical<BR>
> >details *wrong*, probably *grossly* wrong.<BR>
> <BR>
> Which is why no-one reads H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, or Arthur Conan <BR>
> Doyle any more.<BR>
<BR>
A. C. Doyle wrote science fiction?  I vaguely recall that he was "into"<BR>
spiritualism and the occult, but I suspect that as far as most people are<BR>
concerned, everything else he might have written is basically just a<BR>
footnote to his famous detective stories.  <BR>
<BR>
As far as H. G. Wells and Jules Verne are concerned, I think they are<BR>
rapidly fading into mere names to be ritually invoked in works of literary<BR>
scholarship and criticism, rather than *direct* influences on readers and<BR>
modern authors (they may have created various important themes in science<BR>
fiction, but few people learned of these themes directly from their<BR>
works).<BR>
                                                              - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:18:12 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Why such a Long Night?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Gerry Harris [mailto:harrisgwjr@yahoo.com]<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> That being said, our society has changed quite rapidly over the past<BR>
> half century.  Some movie producer 2000 years from now, steeped in<BR>
> popular misconceptions, might do a "historical drama" wherein Ronald<BR>
> Reagan is portrayed in stovepipe hat, bowtie and tails, or the British<BR>
> troops at Isandlwana wear desert camouflage BDUs.  Only historians<BR>
> would probably have any conception of the clothing styles for a<BR>
> particlar period, and even then they may be mistaken in some<BR>
> particulars.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah, there's lots of long-lived garbage out there for archaeologists<BR>
> to sift through, but much of it was laid down in a relatively short<BR>
> period (less than a century), and this is going to lead to some major<BR>
> academic arguments over timelines, tech levels, et al.  Suppose some<BR>
> archaeologist stumbles upon a 20th century junkyard.  You've got<BR>
> decades worth of vehicles all jumbled together.  Without access to the<BR>
> manufacturer's records he's going to have a hard time organizing his<BR>
> finds in chronological order, let alone sorting out makes and models.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe the first few finds will be confusing, but there are certain<BR>
tricks of the trade that can help matters.<BR>
<BR>
Seriation is one. Put your finds in a sequence, based on their<BR>
similarities. This will generally give an evolutionary type path of<BR>
those items, as seldom do items change completely from one model to the<BR>
next. Now you have a sequence, but you may have it reversed (though<BR>
often it is obvious which end is the earliest/latest). To determine<BR>
which way the sequence runs you can relate the end items to other,<BR>
datable items that they have been found in context with.<BR>
<BR>
Over time, this process becomes more certain as more data is<BR>
accumulated.<BR>
<BR>
That's the chronology sorted.<BR>
<BR>
As to make & model, view the constituent parts of the vehicles as<BR>
skeletal remains. It is possible to differentiate most fauna by<BR>
distinctive size, shape, and structure to there bones, so it is also<BR>
possible to build up a database of which vehicle parts belong to which<BR>
make and model of vehicle. Obviously, this data is built up over time,<BR>
usually by finding individual vehicles rather than great jumbles of<BR>
them.<BR>
<BR>
Note, they may not know the original manufacturer or model names, but<BR>
they will be able to place parts into 'species', just as they can<BR>
differentiate the various species of cats, dogs, cattle, pigs, sheep etc<BR>
found in ancient contexts.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:06:53 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
James Jensen wrote:<BR>
> If you have CT/MT/TNE/T4, you don't need Space (recommended if<BR>
> you have interest in non-Trav games or even just writing sci-fi,<BR>
> though).<BR>
<BR>
I have the original GURPS Space and the current edition is, what,<BR>
3rd?  I'd like to ask: how much has changed in  GURPS Space  from<BR>
the original to the current edition, and is it  worth  buying  an<BR>
uptodate copy?<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:34:27 -0400<BR>
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Furries [OT and Off-Thread, too!]<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:54:44 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Furries<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > And if the Trek fans still point fingers and laugh at the furries, one can<BR>
> > always remind them of such things as where 'slash' stories originated <BR>
> from,<BR>
> > and the eternal classic fanfic, 'The Secret Logs of Mistress <BR>
> Janeway.'[1] =)<BR>
><BR>
>Does this actually exist? And if so, where might I find a copy?<BR>
><BR>
>- --<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Oh, it exists... and now, after doing a web search for it, I'm very <BR>
afraid.  It's apparently a web periodical.  (Eeep!)<BR>
<BR>
Saying that, uhm, I don't think it's prudent, WRT the FAQ and posting <BR>
guidelines to go into more detail about it than that.  (I think there's <BR>
something about posting WAY inappropriate links.)<BR>
<BR>
Cheers....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:36:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Red Zones<BR>
<BR>
John Raynor writes:<BR>
>>>Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to <BR>
>>I would have thought that if a world does not want any visitors it<BR>
>>would not join the Imperium.  If it did join, I would expect that <BR>
>>the Imperium would not "grant" Red Zone status to any world just<BR>
>>because the world requested it.  The Imperium is about trade, and<BR>
>>there is no trade with Red Zoned worlds.<BR>
>The Imperium is about trade, yes, but Space is Big, and if the rabidly<BR>
>xenophobic inhabitants of one planet aren't willing to sell you their<BR>
>genuine unobtainium alloy sprockets (because you're a hopelessly unclean<BR>
>heathen off-worlder) there are probably three or four other planets whose<BR>
>more outgoing inhabitants would be happy to do so.  Fighting wars and<BR>
>dealing with terrorists ("off-worlders go home!") is expensive, and makes<BR>
>the Imperium look like a bully even when those xenophobes really *are*<BR>
>just begging for a lesson in courtesy and tolerance ("the megacorporations<BR>
>and the Imperial Marines did *them* in -- *we* could be next!"), so unless<BR>
>the *only* other source of genuine unobtainium alloy sprockets is three<BR>
>sectors away and Somebody Important *really* needs a nearby source, it's<BR>
>probably cheaper and easier to just Red Zone those stupid xenophobes and<BR>
>buy from somebody else.<BR>
>This isn't "Star Trek," where the universe is just *packed* with planets<BR>
>which are the *sole* sources of this or that...<BR>
<BR>
        I was not trying to imply that the Imperium would avoid Red-Zoning<BR>
        worlds because such worlds might have a monopoly on something.<BR>
        Space is Big, as the Guide says, but you don't trade with space.<BR>
        You trade with nearby worlds, mostly.  Allowing worlds to Red-Zone<BR>
        themselves could be seen to reduce trade with nearby worlds.  If<BR>
        those worlds have joined the Imperium to benefit from the trade with<BR>
        other Imperial worlds, interfering with this trade could be seen as<BR>
        anti-Imperial.  Worlds may not have monopolies, but they have<BR>
        markets (of varying sizes, of course), and they are tax bases for the<BR>
        Imperium which may stand to benefit from increased trade among<BR>
        worlds.  On the other hand, worlds may be members primarily to<BR>
        benefit from the protection of the IN, and as long as Imperial levies<BR>
        are paid the IN will stay out of it.  This might be one of those<BR>
        reasons for member worlds to maintain planetary navies, but the<BR>
        IN wouldn't (IMHO) enforce a Red Zone on behalf of a world.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:37:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Paul Drye wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >(a) there's no point in reading fantasies about<BR>
> >interstellar voyages and exotic alien worlds when such things are<BR>
> >perfectly ordinary facts of everyday life and (b) all of today's<BR>
> >science fiction authors will have gotten most of the technical<BR>
> >details *wrong*, probably *grossly* wrong.<BR>
> <BR>
> Which is why no-one reads H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, or Arthur Conan <BR>
> Doyle any more.<BR>
<BR>
And this only addresses point (b). <BR>
H. G. Wells might have gotten the technical details of interplanetary<BR>
invasion ("The War of the Worlds") and really advanced biomedical<BR>
engineering ("The Island of Doctor Moreau") completely wrong, but the<BR>
basic concepts are still pretty exotic, and thus remain interesting. But<BR>
when intelligent alien life and interplanetary warfare are routine, and<BR>
the guy working in the next office down the hall belongs to a species<BR>
which was "uplifted" to sentience through genetic engineering, that source<BR>
of appeal will dry up, too...<BR>
                                                              - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:36:18 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> James Jensen wrote:<BR>
> > If you have CT/MT/TNE/T4, you don't need Space (recommended if<BR>
> > you have interest in non-Trav games or even just writing sci-fi,<BR>
> > though).<BR>
> <BR>
> I have the original GURPS Space and the current edition is, what,<BR>
> 3rd?  I'd like to ask: how much has changed in  GURPS Space  from<BR>
> the original to the current edition, and is it  worth  buying  an<BR>
> uptodate copy?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I've got the second ed in almost mint condition, and I'm gonna get myself a<BR>
3rd ed, if only for the modular ship construction<BR>
rules<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:38:03 -0400<BR>
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Virus And The Civilizations That Contract It<BR>
<BR>
I realize Virus is one of the done-to-death subjects, but I wanted to <BR>
bounce this off of the list, and see what flam^H^H^H^Hdiscussion comes of <BR>
it....<BR>
<BR>
We all know the basic idea of Virus, and we also know that a lot of people <BR>
are less than fond of it -- I'm intrigued by the idea myself, but the <BR>
execution of it leaves something to be desired.  (Someone mentioned that <BR>
they tried to hard to describe it, and that was the downfall of whatever <BR>
believability it had.)<BR>
<BR>
How about this: there's still something that could be called 'Virus' but <BR>
it's not quite the same.  In fact, it has nothing to do with Cymbelline at <BR>
all.  it's more... personal, it deals with people primarilly instead of <BR>
computers, though it could infect computers, but it's not some <BR>
N.handwavitus nanotech virus that can infect both organic and inorganic <BR>
matter.  it's more... informational.  Memetic.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone here ever read "Snow Crash?"<BR>
<BR>
SPOILER SPACE<BR>
CAUTION: If you haven't read Snow Crash, I suggest you do, and not read the <BR>
rest of this message until you have. =)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Still here?  Great! =)<BR>
<BR>
One of the things I'm thinking of doing for MTU, is the concept that you <BR>
had the Rebellion, you had a somewhat longer Hard Times, and then Virus <BR>
hit, but Virus was actually Ashtoreth.  It was not contracted by the <BR>
Coronation Fleet, but rather originated from an Imperial Research Station <BR>
out rimward (why should the Spinward Marches and the coreward parts of the <BR>
Imperium get all the fun? =) that had been doing mixed research into <BR>
linguistics and an Ancients site (or perhaps a site of contemporaries of <BR>
the Ancients?  Why blame everything on Gramps?)  The spread would be <BR>
somewhat slower, and a lot more devastating, but over time, just as "Snow <BR>
Crash" postulates that civilization controlled Ashtoreth, so would the <BR>
(remains of) the Third Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
All the Armageddon at half the cost and (hopefully) twice the <BR>
believability!  (Hey, Ashtoreth is at least as believable as Virus....)<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, non-human races (and maybe even some human minor races) would <BR>
not be as affected.  Ashtoreth-infected communities might try to find the, <BR>
for example, Aslan version of Ashtoreth.  (Ashtoreth could very well be <BR>
present in all or most races, even (especially?) the Hivers.)  The Spinward <BR>
Marches would still quarantine itself.  Ashtoreth might hold especial <BR>
terror for the Zhodani (telepathy is a great transmitter of information <BR>
like this, after all.)  (Hmm... the coming of Ashtoreth = the Empress <BR>
Wave?  Maybe not, wrong direction, but it has possibilities....  A psychic <BR>
wavefront of Ashtoreth rolling out of the Core....  No wonder the Zhos are <BR>
jumpy!)<BR>
<BR>
The more I write this the more I confess that I like it... but it of course <BR>
hinges on how much your typical Trav players can suspend disbelief in <BR>
Ashtoreth, and if they can suspend it easier than they can that of Virus.<BR>
<BR>
So... comments, criticisms, flames?  Anything I would need to iron out?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:41:32 EDT<BR>
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
>From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
>A. C. Doyle wrote science fiction?<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking of "The Lost World" and sequels. Greg Bear wrote a follow-up <BR>
to them just a few years ago, so it's difficult to argue that they're not <BR>
still exerting influence. Come to think, I can boil its continuing effect <BR>
down into two words: "Jurassic Park".<BR>
<BR>
(Leaving aside the merits, or lack thereof, of that fine piece of work.)<BR>
<BR>
>As far as H. G. Wells and Jules Verne are concerned, I think they are<BR>
>rapidly fading into mere names to be ritually invoked in works of literary <BR>
>scholarship and criticism, rather than *direct* influences on readers and <BR>
>modern authors (they may have created various important themes in science <BR>
>fiction, but few people learned of these themes directly from their works).<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure how this affects the question at hand, "What survives?" I'd <BR>
argue that currently as many people read Wells and Verne as read, say, Adam <BR>
Smith or Sun Tzu.<BR>
<BR>
It's worth pointing out that "The Time Machine", "War of the Worlds", <BR>
"20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" and others are all still in print, so <BR>
technical wrongness hasn't eliminated what must still be a decent <BR>
constituency.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Paul Drye<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:42:06 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Autodynamics?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@ient.com><BR>
>Subject: Autodynamics?<BR>
>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:11:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
><BR>
>This is a little OT, but what with the various discussions of relativity<BR>
>and so on that go on here...<BR>
><BR>
>What's the deal with Autodynamics?  It's touted as a "replacement" for<BR>
>special relativity.  The web page (http://flic.net/~saa/) has a bit of a<BR>
>"hard sell" feel about it, though.  Comments? Opinions?<BR>
><BR>
>Charles C.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
While we shouldn't accept this blindly, I think that we ought to keep an <BR>
open mind. A good deal of this makes more sense to me than relativity.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:45:23 EDT<BR>
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
>From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
>And this only addresses point (b).<BR>
<BR>
I'm on the wrong side of this argument anyway: Piper isn't going to survive. <BR>
And I'm speaking as someone with a complete set of his stuff on my shelves.<BR>
<BR>
(Addressed to the rest of the gallery) And no, I'm not interested in a <BR>
discussion of the literary merits of H. Beam Piper. Thank you and good <BR>
night.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Paul Drye<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:59:52 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
Somebody wrote:<BR>
> >(a) there's no point in reading fantasies about<BR>
> >interstellar voyages and exotic alien worlds when such things are<BR>
> >perfectly ordinary facts of everyday life and (b) all of today's<BR>
> >science fiction authors will have gotten most of the technical<BR>
> >details *wrong*, probably *grossly* wrong.<BR>
<BR>
In the 3I "fantasies about interstellar voyages and exotic  alien<BR>
worlds" would not be Sci-Fi, they would be "contemporary fiction"<BR>
or "adventure stories" (or if dealing with  mind-reading  aliens:<BR>
"spy novels").  Maybe citizens of the 3I wont  read  yesteryear's<BR>
Sci-Fi authors, they'd have their own contemporaries.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, there would be some true Sci-Fi in  the  3I  (possibly<BR>
about the secret of the Ancients, or the arrival of other  super-<BR>
aliens from another region of the galaxy, maybe a doomsday  story<BR>
about some energy wave about to  wash  over  Imperial  space,  or<BR>
about machines turning on their human masters).  And its  only  a<BR>
matter of time before the next generation  of  Imperial  citizens<BR>
start to snigger at these while reading  their  own  versions  of<BR>
Sci-Fi.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:13:27 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Tee sizes<BR>
<BR>
> First who 'designed' them (or the logo on them)?  I ask for bibliographic<BR>
>  purposes obviously.<BR>
<BR>
I forget -- it was created for GT Starports originally, and _might_ have been <BR>
Mark Cook. He's online here, perhaps he can verify?<BR>
  <BR>
>  Second, having never bought a t-shirt over the web how on earth do I know<BR>
>  what size to order?  Do the XXXL, XXL, XL, and L actually relate to real<BR>
>  world figures anywhere?  (I'm a little over six foot but fairly slender in<BR>
>  frame).<BR>
<BR>
Every manufacturer's sizing is different -- these shirts are Fruit of the <BR>
Loom, I think, if that helps. Perhaps the TMLers can help you better than I <BR>
can.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:23:32 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>Subject: RE: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>
...<BR>
>While I couldn't find any reference to Ros/Heroics on the web, I did find<BR>
>that GHQ is supposedly still selling WWII Micro Armour at least :<BR>
><BR>
>  http://www.ghqmodels.com/ww2armor.html<BR>
><BR>
>7.95 per pack of 5, and GHQ always used to very good quality.<BR>
<BR>
  I wasn't clear - I'm not sure that either of those companies does<BR>
Great War vehicles, but AFAIK they're both happily churning out WW2<BR>
stuff still; I just find GHQ too pricy for detail that wargaming<BR>
doesn't really need.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:18:33 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3228<BR>
<BR>
> That being said, our society has changed quite rapidly over the past<BR>
>  half century.  Some movie producer 2000 years from now, steeped in<BR>
>  popular misconceptions, might do a "historical drama" wherein Ronald<BR>
>  Reagan is portrayed in stovepipe hat, bowtie and tails, or the British<BR>
>  troops at Isandlwana wear desert camouflage BDUs.  Only historians<BR>
>  would probably have any conception of the clothing styles for a<BR>
>  particlar period, and even then they may be mistaken in some<BR>
>  particulars.<BR>
<BR>
Almost any "Bible-epic" movie fails to accurately depict the costumes, <BR>
settling for the popular image of what was worn rather than what we know of <BR>
the reality.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:25:19 -0700<BR>
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Tee sizes<BR>
<BR>
Mark Cook did indeed design the Brubek's logo.  He gave me a low-rez copy of<BR>
it so that I could include it on some of the shipping containers in the<BR>
Starports artwork.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 8:13 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Tee sizes<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> First who 'designed' them (or the logo on them)?  I ask for bibliographic<BR>
>  purposes obviously.<BR>
<BR>
I forget -- it was created for GT Starports originally, and _might_ have<BR>
been<BR>
Mark Cook. He's online here, perhaps he can verify?<BR>
<BR>
>  Second, having never bought a t-shirt over the web how on earth do I know<BR>
>  what size to order?  Do the XXXL, XXL, XL, and L actually relate to real<BR>
>  world figures anywhere?  (I'm a little over six foot but fairly slender<BR>
in<BR>
>  frame).<BR>
<BR>
Every manufacturer's sizing is different -- these shirts are Fruit of the<BR>
Loom, I think, if that helps. Perhaps the TMLers can help you better than I<BR>
can.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:16:55 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>
<BR>
Keeping in the same vain as the quotes below, I would think the very first<BR>
one on the list would be "The Order of the Imperial Guard". If this has<BR>
already been stated, I apologize, I'm on heavy meds and my brain is in a<BR>
"Fibro Fog" today.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
"Depression is melancholy minus its charm." - Susan Sontag<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 10:30 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
> Cc: <lkw@io.com><BR>
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 10:57:am<BR>
> Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>
> > >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:07 +0100 (BST)<BR>
> > >From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
> > >Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Unless there is a particular reason... orders of knighthood are<BR>
generally<BR>
> > >ranking by age. So in determining the order of precedence (that's the<BR>
> > >technical term for the sequence) you need to figure out which order was<BR>
> > >instituted when.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Just to be difficult, the original quote says (Supp 11, p. 6):<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "The names of the first six domains were Sylea, Vland, Gateway, Ilelish,<BR>
> > Antares, and Sol... A seventh domain, Deneb, was created in the first<BR>
year<BR>
> > of the First Frontier War."<BR>
><BR>
> The above quote from Supp 11 works fine for me... and I do love a good<BR>
> tradition, gives so many people something to grumble and/or work against!<BR>
;)<BR>
> -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:21:15 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:12:28 -0400<BR>
> From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
> <BR>
> James Joyce, "Finnegan's Wake" - Although I've never actually read this<BR>
> one all the way through, I can't imagine even the total destruction of<BR>
> the human race eliminating. <BR>
<BR>
That's _Finnegans Wake_, no apostrophe -- and yes, it does matter. :)<BR>
Actually, I'd pick _Ulysses_ rather than the Wake; the latter has been<BR>
described as the world's most brilliant failure, a judgement with which I<BR>
heartily agree.  _Ulysses_, on the other hand, is both more accessible and<BR>
a stronger work overall.  Although given the way fate seems to work,<BR>
Joyce's only surviving work is likely to be _Exiles_. :P<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I'll echo someone elses sentiment on the 10-movies thread:  It<BR>
is far more likely (and more intriguing) that the surviving books will be<BR>
a random sampling of culture up through the onset of the Long Night,<BR>
rather than what we'd pick.  Imagine trying to work out late 20th-century<BR>
American culture from three romance novels, _The Cardinal of the Kremlin_,<BR>
a copy of "People", _Profiles in Courage_, and the second Harry Potter<BR>
book.  Never forget that Sophocles' "Oedipus Rex" placed second in an<BR>
Athenian drama competition, and we have not the least fragment of the<BR>
first-place play.<BR>
<BR>
Note that it's very, very likely that major religious works will survive,<BR>
since people will treasure these and keep them in print indefinitely.<BR>
Similarly, older works which have stood the test of time and become<BR>
cultural mainstays are unlikely to disappear; for example, I imagine<BR>
Shakespeare is immortal at this point.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:15:53 -0400<BR>
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "SD Mooney" <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books <BR>
> they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
I can think of sixty-six that will. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:32:34 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
SwordWorlder wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>
> > they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>
><BR>
> I can think of sixty-six that will. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
So in the far future, there will be people who worship the prophet Miller,<BR>
and carefully read every word of his uncanny prediction of the future. Sort<BR>
of like Nostradamus. Any you think that overly-literal interpretation of the<BR>
rules is irritating today....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:34:24 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
First, the things that are great enough TO make it:<BR>
<BR>
1) The Bible<BR>
<BR>
2) The Martian Chronicles (my all time favorite novel)<BR>
<BR>
3) Dune (if this doesn't survive, what's the point of <BR>
reading/living/civilization/etc.?)<BR>
<BR>
4) The Hobbit (I like it better than LoR (I've only read the first two books <BR>
of these, though, so my opinion may change))<BR>
<BR>
5) Dracula<BR>
<BR>
6) The Hitchhiker's Trilogy (all five of them)<BR>
<BR>
Now, the books that SHOULD make it but might not:<BR>
<BR>
7) The Green Hills of Earth (which is probably a fairly accurate depiction <BR>
of life in the latter half of the 21st century of Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
8) The Soulforge (its a Dragonlance novel in case you're wondering)<BR>
<BR>
9) Time for the Stars (by Robert Heinlein, I believe)<BR>
<BR>
Now, the book that will probably survive against all odds:<BR>
<BR>
10) Starship Troopers (which proudly proclaims its author a fascist; no, <BR>
wait...)<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 27 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3230<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
furry trekkies<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3228<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:36:11 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
> Somebody wrote:<BR>
> > >(a) there's no point in reading fantasies about<BR>
> > >interstellar voyages and exotic alien worlds when such things are<BR>
> > >perfectly ordinary facts of everyday life and (b) all of today's<BR>
> > >science fiction authors will have gotten most of the technical<BR>
> > >details *wrong*, probably *grossly* wrong.<BR>
> <BR>
> In the 3I "fantasies about interstellar voyages and exotic  alien<BR>
> worlds" would not be Sci-Fi, they would be "contemporary fiction"<BR>
> or "adventure stories" (or if dealing with  mind-reading  aliens:<BR>
> "spy novels").  Maybe citizens of the 3I wont  read  yesteryear's<BR>
> Sci-Fi authors, they'd have their own contemporaries.<BR>
> <BR>
> Of course, there would be some true Sci-Fi in  the  3I  (possibly<BR>
> about the secret of the Ancients, or the arrival of other  super-<BR>
> aliens from another region of the galaxy, maybe a doomsday  story<BR>
> about some energy wave about to  wash  over  Imperial  space,  or<BR>
> about machines turning on their human masters).  And its  only  a<BR>
> matter of time before the next generation  of  Imperial  citizens<BR>
> start to snigger at these while reading  their  own  versions  of<BR>
> Sci-Fi.<BR>
<BR>
Such works would, undoubtedly, be periodically written, but I maintain<BR>
that the pace of technological change in the Third Imperium (and most of<BR>
the rest of the "Traveller" universe), is *so* slow that very few people<BR>
think, worry, or wonder about it.  Works that we would consider "science<BR>
fiction" might be written now and then, but there probably wouldn't be<BR>
enough of them to be recognized as members of a particular literary genre<BR>
by ordinary readers, shelved together in the bookstores, or given the<BR>
equivalent of a cable television channel. <shrug> I can envision the<BR>
"hard-edged techno-thriller" becoming popular enough to be recognized as a<BR>
genre when the Third Imperium was just getting started (the Third Imperium<BR>
*did* have a sense of purpose, and slight technological edge over its many<BR>
adversaries, so people would be thinking about such things), and stories<BR>
about psionics would have been popular just before and after the<BR>
suppression of the Psionic Institutes, but I can't see science fiction<BR>
being a popular genre for all of the Imperium's history.<BR>
                                                              - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:53:36 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
<BR>
The problem with predicting Sci-Fi in the 57th century is that current <BR>
sci-fi is based upon current technology. To predict the future of sf is <BR>
trying to look too many steps ahead. Obviously, sf in the 3I will be based <BR>
on TL15 tech. Since we do not live in a TL15 society (I don't anyway), we <BR>
cannot possibly foresee sf in the 3I!<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
========================================<BR>
"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>
reaction.'"<BR>
- -Rev Bem<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:53:02 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: furry trekkies<BR>
<BR>
> > And if the Trek fans still point fingers and laugh at the furries, one can<BR>
> > always remind them of such things as where 'slash' stories originated <BR>
> from,<BR>
> > and the eternal classic fanfic, 'The Secret Logs of Mistress <BR>
> Janeway.'[1] =)<BR>
>Does this actually exist? And if so, where might I find a copy?<BR>
<BR>
Ok, first to answer the question, a search of the title on www.google.com <BR>
will turn up websites you don't want to browse at work, including the ones <BR>
in question.<BR>
<BR>
Getting back to the new subject, remember Lt. M'Ress, the feliniod <BR>
communications officer from the animated series?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
It was blasphemous, it was sacrilegious, and it was a little bit too much fun.<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:56:28 EDT<BR>
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
Instead of straight speculation, there's canon signs that various pieces of <BR>
classical literature make it through.<BR>
<BR>
Consider the names of ships. I'm at work(*)  so I can't even do any quick <BR>
spot checking, but I'm sure that any number of ships have classical names. <BR>
Undoubtedly some of them are classicaly-named only in an indirect fashion <BR>
(for example, I'd assume that a Bellerophon is named after the ship Napoleon <BR>
made famous, not the mythical Bellerophon), but there are undoubtedly plenty <BR>
that have no notable namesakes.<BR>
<BR>
So that's fairly clear evidence that the *Iliad*, the *Odyssey* and the <BR>
a-Bullfinch-or-decendant made it through to the year 5600. Or perhaps just <BR>
"Clash of the Titans" and a Lou Ferrigno "Hercules" on VHS.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Paul Drye<BR>
<BR>
(*)Shhh! I'm not supposed to be on the list right now<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:50:30 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
James Jensen wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> First, the things that are great enough TO make it:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1) The Bible<BR>
> <BR>
> 2) The Martian Chronicles (my all time favorite novel)<BR>
> <BR>
> 3) Dune (if this doesn't survive, what's the point of<BR>
> reading/living/civilization/etc.?)<BR>
> <BR>
> 4) The Hobbit (I like it better than LoR (I've only read the first two books<BR>
> of these, though, so my opinion may change))<BR>
<BR>
Go ahead and finish it...you're missing a LOT out of the epic. That<BR>
minds me, 'tis about time for my semi-annual reread of LOTR. <BR>
<BR>
> Now, the book that will probably survive against all odds:<BR>
> <BR>
> 10) Starship Troopers (which proudly proclaims its author a fascist; no,<BR>
> wait...)<BR>
<BR>
ROFL.<BR>
<BR>
This (and most) of these lists are focussing very narrowly...on <BR>
latter-day Science Fiction or Fantasy.<BR>
<BR>
'The Spy Who came in From the Cold' isn't on this list, nor is 'Moby<BR>
Dick', 'Huck Finn', 'Great Expectations', 'A Tale of Two Cities'...<BR>
<BR>
No Moliere? No Richard Brautigan? No Tom Robbins? (C'mon, at least<BR>
'Still Life With Woodpecker'!) 'The Catcher in the Rye'? <BR>
<BR>
In terms of sheer volume, at least ONE of Agatha Cristie's books will<BR>
survive. No James Fenimore Cooper? Washington Irving? <BR>
<BR>
Again, in terms of sheer number, Danielle Steel might be remembered as<BR>
the greatest known 20th century author followed closely by Stephen King.<BR>
<BR>
We're also ignoring non-English works... Tales of Gengi, Don Quixote,<BR>
War and Peace, The Rubyiat of Omar Kayyam, 1001 Arabian Nights, the<BR>
Gulag Archipelago...<BR>
<BR>
No Hemingway...'For Whom the Bell Tolls' ? Arrgh I'd have to rewrite it<BR>
from memory.<BR>
<BR>
Desert Solitaire, by Ed Abbey b/w The Desert Year, by Joseph Wood<BR>
Krutch...(an interesting pair of back-to-back reads as ever I could<BR>
recommend!)<BR>
<BR>
Political books, someone's mentioned 'The Art of War' and 'The Prince'.<BR>
What about 'Mein Kampf'? Mao's little red book? 'The Federalist Papers'.<BR>
Heck, back to Ed Abbey 'The Monkey Wrench Gang' ("The first time youread<BR>
it as a book, the second time you read it as a manual" ;-) All published<BR>
works that have had an impact for good or evil on the world. <BR>
<BR>
'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance'. <BR>
<BR>
I suspect that if I were forced to narrow my list to only ten books, at<BR>
MOST 'Dune', or _perhaps_ 'Nova' by Samuel R. Delany would make it for<BR>
SF. For fantasy, LOTR, and little else (especially if I could stretch<BR>
LOTR to include 'The Hobbit' and 'Silmarillion').<BR>
<BR>
The other ten slots would be taken up with some of the above suggestions<BR>
or others.<BR>
<BR>
(Of course, this is more like the 'List of 10 books I'd take into exile<BR>
with me')<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:02:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
>(Of course, this is more like the 'List of 10 books I'd take into exile<BR>
>with me')<BR>
<BR>
The problem with such lists is that there is a significant difference between what the poster *wants* to survive and *thinks* will survive, but most posters seem to ignore that distinction.<BR>
<BR>
Brandon<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:28:16 +0100<BR>
From: "Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
Ok here's a few suggestions, in no particular order<BR>
<BR>
A Brief History of Time by Hawkings (on the basis that there must be milions<BR>
of copies in perfect condition-having never been opened, never mind read.)<BR>
<BR>
Collected Works of Shakespear (along with all the queries about who he<BR>
really was)<BR>
<BR>
The Lord of the Rings by Tolkien<BR>
<BR>
Pilgrims Progress by Chaucer (You need something to torture Language<BR>
students with)<BR>
<BR>
Frankenstein by Mary Shelley (Good horror never dies)<BR>
<BR>
Enough for tonight<BR>
<BR>
- -------------Original message---------------<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>
they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>
Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive<BR>
because it was even funnier)<BR>
- -----------end original---------------<BR>
<BR>
Peter<BR>
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav & AD&D)<BR>
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so  zh+<BR>
vi-<BR>
      And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR>
<BR>
Be wary of strong drink.  It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>
miss.<BR>
Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:11:25 EDT<BR>
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
>Pilgrims Progress by Chaucer (You need something to torture Language<BR>
>students with)<BR>
<BR>
That sound you hear is John Bunyan, reaching 8500 rpm in his grave.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Paul Drye<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:21:00 -0400<BR>
From: "Anthony Colosetti" <acoloset@kent.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
OK, I've seen the responses so far and I agree that certain books (like<BR>
religious texts) will survive into the future so I will not waste slots<BR>
repeating them here. The following are what I would see (or more correctly,<BR>
like to see) surviving...Of course depending on SolSec I may or may not be<BR>
in trouble for my collection...<BR>
<BR>
Germinal - Zola<BR>
Brave New World - Huxley or 1984 - Orwell<BR>
Catcher in the Rye - Salinger<BR>
Das Capital - Marx or The Communist Manifesto - Marx<BR>
On the Duty of Civil Disobedience - Thoreau<BR>
The People's History of the United States - Zinn<BR>
The Art of War - Sun Tzu or The Prince - Machiavelli<BR>
The Principles of Philosophy - Descarte<BR>
Fahrenheit 451 - Bradbury<BR>
Grimm's Fairy Tales or The Complete Mother Goose<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Colosetti<BR>
acoloset@kent.edu<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:49:27 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On 10/26/00 at 11:19 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> At 04:16 PM 10/26/00 -0700, someone wrote:<BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books <BR>
>>>> they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> Dom (who'd like to see the novel of _the Princess Bride_ survive <BR>
>>>> because it was even funnier)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Just don't tell SolSec you have it.<BR>
<BR>
>SolSec would be even *less* happy about "Anthem".<BR>
<BR>
You've got *that* right!<BR>
<BR>
Let's see, books, eh?  Well, leaving out the scared books, I'd<BR>
include...<BR>
<BR>
  1.  The collected works of William Shakesphere<BR>
 <BR>
  2.  The collected works of C.S. Forrester<BR>
 <BR>
  3.  The collected works of C.S. Lewis<BR>
 <BR>
  4.  The Lord of the Rings and Simirillian <sp><BR>
 <BR>
  5.  The collected works of Homer (not Simpson, althrough *that*<BR>
      would be a hoot) <BR>
 <BR>
  6.  The Past Through Tommorrow and the Notebooks of Lazuras Long<BR>
 <BR>
  7.  The collected works of T.S. Elliot<BR>
 <BR>
  8.  The collected works of Victor Hugo<BR>
 <BR>
  9.  The Complete Mother Goose, plus the legends of Paul Bunyan,<BR>
      Pecos Bill, and Baron Munchhausen <sp> <BR>
 <BR>
 10.  The collected works of Carolyn Keene<BR>
<BR>
 11.  The collected works of George Orwell<BR>
 <BR>
 12.  The collected works of Winston Churchill (especially his<BR>
      History of the English Speaking People)<BR>
 <BR>
 13.  The collected works of Louis Mumford<BR>
 <BR>
 14.  The collected works of Oscar Wilde<BR>
 <BR>
 15.  The collected works of Rulyard Kiplin <sp><BR>
<BR>
...so, I cheated a little. <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:54:53 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On 10/27/00 at 09:34 AM,  "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>(a) there's no point in reading fantasies about<BR>
>>interstellar voyages and exotic alien worlds when such things are<BR>
>>perfectly ordinary facts of everyday life and (b) all of today's<BR>
>>science fiction authors will have gotten most of the technical<BR>
>>details *wrong*, probably *grossly* wrong.<BR>
<BR>
>Which is why no-one reads H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, or Arthur Conan<BR>
>Doyle any  more.<BR>
<BR>
It's not the outdated science that keeps the above authors fresh, it's the characters, plots, underlying ideas, and plain well-written stories they produced. The same will be the case with Clarke, Asimov, Heinlein, Beam, and many more.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:04:47 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On 10/27/00 at 04:11 PM,  "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Pilgrims Progress by Chaucer (You need something to torture Language<BR>
>>students with)<BR>
<BR>
>That sound you hear is John Bunyan, reaching 8500 rpm in his grave.<BR>
<BR>
LOL! <g><BR>
<BR>
I'd prefer Canterbury Tales to Pilgrim's Progress anyway.  <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:10:13 EDT<BR>
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
>On 10/27/00 at 09:34 AM,  "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >>(a) there's no point in reading fantasies about<BR>
> >>interstellar voyages and exotic alien worlds when such things are<BR>
> >>perfectly ordinary facts of everyday life and (b) all of today's<BR>
> >>science fiction authors will have gotten most of the technical<BR>
> >>details *wrong*, probably *grossly* wrong.<BR>
><BR>
> >Which is why no-one reads H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, or Arthur Conan<BR>
> >Doyle any more.<BR>
><BR>
>It's not the outdated science that keeps the above authors fresh, it's the <BR>
>characters, plots, underlying ideas, and plain well-written stories they <BR>
>produced.<BR>
<BR>
Which is my point about why things survive, if stated more baldly. Thank <BR>
you.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Paul Drye<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:10:53 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >I have had similar experiences when trying to reverse-engineer WWI<BR>
 >tanks for<BR>
 >Striker; you end up violating a number of rules or getting _way_ off<BR>
 >the<BR>
 >historical values. I suppose that the rules are just guidelines,<BR>
 >though, and<BR>
 >can be bent or broken as needed. For example, the rules will not let<BR>
 >you<BR>
 >build a vehicle with the dimensions of the British Mk V or Mk IX, and<BR>
 >the<BR>
 >French light tanks just don't seem to work out.<BR>
<BR>
What happens with the French light tanks?  I was going to try a Whippet<BR>
<I say Whippet, Whippet good> next, but I can't find the rear & belly <BR>
armor thickness, which crewman operated which MGs, and whether or not <BR>
the superstructure had the same armor as the hull.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >Hmmm, on a 1-2 roll again, on the second roll 1-3 Option A, 4-6 Option<BR>
 >B...<BR>
 ><BR>
 >Surely just having the first roll go: 1 Option A, 2 Option B, 3+<BR>
 >Normal,<BR>
 >gives exactly the same result with one less die roll...<BR>
<BR>
Doh!  Well, your method is more elegant, but mine gives some suspense<BR>
to the situation.  Never neglect "meta-roll" considerations.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >Next time I'm in Brisbane, I'll drop by the Queensland Museum and get<BR>
 >Mephisto to bless your dice for you.<BR>
 ><BR>
<BR>
May God and the General Staff bless you.  :)<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
 >I visit her every few months, just to say hello.<BR>
<BR>
I've always had a soft spot for the A7V.  I've seen some photos of <BR>
Mephisto on the web.  She looks like she's in good condition (kept <BR>
under glass, like Lenin or Mao).<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick <hmm...might do the K-Wagen, next><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:18:34 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 10/27/00 at 04:11 PM,  "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>Pilgrims Progress by Chaucer (You need something to torture Language<BR>
> >>students with)<BR>
> <BR>
> >That sound you hear is John Bunyan, reaching 8500 rpm in his grave.<BR>
> <BR>
> LOL! <g><BR>
> <BR>
> I'd prefer Canterbury Tales to Pilgrim's Progress anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed.  After all, Traveller itself could be described as "the Miller's<BR>
Tale."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:33:28 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I'd prefer Canterbury Tales to Pilgrim's Progress anyway.<BR>
><BR>
> Agreed.  After all, Traveller itself could be described as "the Miller's<BR>
> Tale."<BR>
<BR>
Isn't the Miller's Tale the one in which the carpenter's wife is having an<BR>
affair with someone, someone gets tricked into kissing someone else on the<BR>
butt, and someone gets poked in the butt with a hot poker? Wow, that's<BR>
pretty far off from most Traveller games which *I* have played.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:47:06 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> John Groth wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > I'd prefer Canterbury Tales to Pilgrim's Progress anyway.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Agreed.  After all, Traveller itself could be described as "the Miller's<BR>
> > Tale."<BR>
> <BR>
> Isn't the Miller's Tale the one in which the carpenter's wife is having an<BR>
> affair with someone, someone gets tricked into kissing someone else on the<BR>
> butt, and someone gets poked in the butt with a hot poker? Wow, that's<BR>
> pretty far off from most Traveller games which *I* have played.<BR>
<BR>
Apparently you began playing Traveller _after_ your high school<BR>
years.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:47:00 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
Here's my take on things:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Isn't the Miller's Tale the one in which the carpenter's wife is having an<BR>
>affair with someone,<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like Loren and SJG. (No offense intended)<BR>
<BR>
>someone gets tricked into kissing someone else on the butt,<BR>
<BR>
FarFuture and SJG maybe? (again, no offense)<BR>
<BR>
>and someone gets poked in the butt with a hot poker?<BR>
<BR>
Imperium Games.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:23:25 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3228<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:49:15 -0400 (EDT), Jonathan McDermott<BR>
<caraig@mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:28:49 -0400<BR>
>>From: CatWhoLeaps <catwholeaps@mac.com><BR>
>>Subject: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
><snip><BR>
<BR>
>>P.S. Anyone hiding out on Long Island that plays Trav?<BR>
<BR>
>>------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
>How far out on the Island are you? I'm over on Staten Island, and work in <BR>
>Brooklyn, but I'm not afraid of making a Trav run once in a while. =)<BR>
<BR>
... and FWIW, I'm in southern Westchester, which isn't impossibly far<BR>
away...<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:37:07 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
>As much as I like H. Beam Piper's work, I doubt that very much<BR>
contemporary science fiction is going to survive the Long Night,<BR>
<snip><BR>
<<BR>
<BR>
Not for the science fiction value but for the socio-political value. Piper's<BR>
series will be used as a text for all the psychohistorians and the moral<BR>
values will be used by those looking to govern.<BR>
The sci-fi factor will be taken as proof that some primitives weren't.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:46:37<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:28 PM 10/26/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Given I don't have infinite resources for buying Trav books, which Gurps<BR>
>books would I need in order of preference?  Obviously Basic.  Is Gurps Space<BR>
>necessary/useful? or the Compendiums? or would other books in the Gurps Trav<BR>
>line (Alien races and so on) be better?<BR>
<BR>
_Space_ is useful, but not entirely necessary.  Depending upon what setting<BR>
you want to use, _Behind The Claw_ or _Rim of Fire_ would be nice.  If you<BR>
like building planets, _First In_ is a must.  You can do incredibly<BR>
detailed merchant games with _Far Trader_.<BR>
<BR>
The alien books are a matter of taste.  I get them all, but then I'm<BR>
compulsive.  If you are operating on limited funds, only get the one that<BR>
you think you will use (Zhodani/Vargr for a Spinward Marches games, for ex)<BR>
<BR>
The one book that you absolutely must buy is _Ground Forces_  :)<BR>
<BR>
(BTW: I just got my first author's copy.  Wow.)<BR>
<BR>
I'd also look at _Ultra-Tech 1 & 2_.  Good idea mines.  You'll need<BR>
_Compendium I_ for many of the advantages and disadvantages listed in the<BR>
sourcebooks.<BR>
<BR>
The other books in the line, _Starports_, _Star Mercs_, etc., are really up<BR>
to your individual needs and resources.  I like getting them just so I have<BR>
them if needed.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3230<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 27 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3231<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Medals (was Re: Odd Question)<BR>
RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
FF&S2 Design:  _Noisy Cricket_-class TL-18 Battlerider (long)<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
Re: books that survived<BR>
What Music Survived?<BR>
What Sports Survived?<BR>
Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>
RE: Tee sizes<BR>
Re: What Sports Survived?<BR>
Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
RE: What Sports Survived?<BR>
The Wreck of the Old M:0<BR>
Jobs for Characters<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:49:26<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Medals (was Re: Odd Question)<BR>
<BR>
At 01:19 PM 10/27/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>There is a site out there with ribbons for Traveller awards. I think it's<BR>
>one of the as-yet unrated links on my web page - try looking through there.<BR>
<BR>
The medals are described, and a few of them illustrated, in _Ground<BR>
Forces_, coming soon!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:01:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
But then, you would say that since your the author (just like I would since<BR>
I'm one of the artists, and did the cover :)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The one book that you absolutely must buy is _Ground Forces_  :)<BR>
<BR>
(BTW: I just got my first author's copy.  Wow.)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:21:19 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: FF&S2 Design:  _Noisy Cricket_-class TL-18 Battlerider (long)<BR>
<BR>
This battlerider meets Kurt Feltenberger's requirements (circa TL-18,<BR>
30,000 dtons, with an antimatter main power plant), sacrificing<BR>
maneuverability for spinal mount firepower:<BR>
<BR>
**begin transmission**<BR>
<BR>
_Noisy Cricket_-class Battlerider<BR>
<BR>
Tons: 30000 std (SL Needle Hypersonic) <BR>
Dimensions: 543.5 m x 54.8 m x 54.8 m<BR>
Volume: 420000 m3<BR>
Cargo: 20 std (2 hatches, Hdl: 2 x 40 t) <BR>
Mass (L/C): 448516 t/ 448221 t <BR>
Maintenance Points: 6612<BR>
Passengers High/Med: 0/0 <BR>
Crew: 169/392 <BR>
Troops: 0<BR>
Frozen Watch: 26 (2 groups)<BR>
Cost: 57,229.333 MCr <BR>
Tech Level: 18<BR>
Size: 10 <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Electronics<BR>
Controls: Synaptic, High automation. 10xFibComp (CM: 0.2 CP: 5.0).<BR>
Terrain following sensors (TF:900, NOE:300). Bridge.<BR>
Communications: 4 x Directional Radio Rec (10,000 AU / 0.02 MW). 2 x<BR>
Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 16 x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW).<BR>
   2 x Meson (1,000 AU, 5 MW).<BR>
Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160 mkm], 0.1 MW). 1xAEMS (12.5 [5 mkm], LP, 50<BR>
MW). 8 x LIDAR (15 [2mkm], 0.5 MW).<BR>
Survey/Science: None<BR>
ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4 MW). 1 x Area. Jammer (11, 62.5 MW).<BR>
1xDecp. Jammer (13, 12.5 MW).<BR>
  1xPas. Jammer (16, 6.25 MW).<BR>
Signatures: Vis: -1, IR: 0 (0 at 23164 MW, -0.5 at 5200 MW), Act: 0,<BR>
Neu: -4, Grav: 1<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Performance <BR>
0 Jump<BR>
2 / 2 Maneuver (Thruster: 21903 MW)<BR>
0 / 0 Contra-grav<BR>
3252 kph/3254 kph Atmosphere Maximum <BR>
2439 kph / 2441 kph Atmosphere Cruise <BR>
3 Power (AntiMatter: 52000 MW,2 yr) <BR>
0 Battery <BR>
0 Fuel <BR>
340/58/2/30/100 Accomodations (Bunk/SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy<BR>
Low Berth) <BR>
20800 Life Sup. (Type:Extended,Good Food/Storage) <BR>
3 G-Comp <BR>
48 Sandcasters (AV:79/Cans:30)<BR>
16 Damper Turrets (3 MW /Rng: 50000 km) <BR>
300 Damper Screen (11 MW) <BR>
452 Meson Screen (74.124 MW) <BR>
130 [2002] Armor, 51 Structure <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Weapons (300,000km range bands) <BR>
1 x 90k-Mj Parallel PA (+7) 2/17-17-17-17 [1,100/2130-2103-2130-2130]<BR>
100 rof<BR>
2 x 3.6k Mj Parallel PA ((+7) 2/10-10-10-10 [1,100/426-426-426-426]<BR>
100rof<BR>
48 x 61-Mj Laser Turret [4 / ea bty] [byt rating: (+7) 1/5-2-2-2<BR>
[4,200/20-20-20-20] 200 rof (PD rof: 800)]<BR>
2 x Missile Bay Auto 8/8 (Mag:64 /MFD:500,000km) <BR>
     w/72 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU <BR>
 Features<BR>
300 x Airlock <BR>
0 x Decontamination Airlock <BR>
1 x Docking Umbilical <BR>
1 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea.) <BR>
5 x Machine Shop (10 std ea.) <BR>
2 x Sickbay (8 std ea.) <BR>
1 x Ship's locker (15 std ea.) <BR>
4 x Prisoner Capacity (2 Medium, 2 High Security) <BR>
10 x Armory (1.43 std ea.) <BR>
4 x Gym (2.5std ea.)<BR>
3 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 60 each) <BR>
10 x Full Galley (Cap: 40 each) <BR>
2 x Crew Lounge (20 std ea.)<BR>
1 x Combat Information Center (25 std ea.) <BR>
1 x Capsule Launcher (40 rdy cap ea)<BR>
<BR>
Small Craft: None<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Backups <BR>
Drives: None <BR>
Screens: 1 x Meson Screen (PV:143). 1 x Damper Screen (PV:160). <BR>
Communications: None <BR>
Sensors: 2 x PEMS (14 [50mkm]). 1 x AEMS (12 [1.6mkm]). 16 x LIDAR (14.5<BR>
[500 kkm]).<BR>
ECM: <BR>
Power & Fuel: Antimatter (2000 MW).<BR>
<BR>
Crew Details 7 x Maneuver. 1 x Electronic. 98 x Engineering. 10 x<BR>
Maintenance. 149 x Gunnery. 18 x Screen. 40 x Troops. 53 x Command. 12 x<BR>
Stewards. 4 x Medical.<BR>
<BR>
**end transmission**<BR>
<BR>
Note that the main NPAW occupies 81%+ of the total volume of the ship. <BR>
This explains why the _Noisy Cricket_-class battlerider is only capable<BR>
of 2G acceleration.  OTOH, the spinal NPAW mount is able to punch<BR>
through the armor of all but the largest capital ships (few ships [other<BR>
than AuricTech's _Montana_-class battleship] have armor ratings greater<BR>
than 2100).<BR>
<BR>
While AuricTech's Advanced Concepts branch recommends swifter vessels<BR>
(such as the _Majestic_ and _Dominator_ classes of battlerider), our<BR>
Design Bureau head deemed it appropriate to forward this design as an<BR>
alternative.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:42:54 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On 10/27/00 at 05:18 PM,  John Groth <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> On 10/27/00 at 04:11 PM,  "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >>Pilgrims Progress by Chaucer (You need something to torture Language<BR>
>> >>students with)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >That sound you hear is John Bunyan, reaching 8500 rpm in his grave.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> LOL! <g><BR>
>> <BR>
>> I'd prefer Canterbury Tales to Pilgrim's Progress anyway.<BR>
<BR>
>Agreed.  After all, Traveller itself could be described as "the<BR>
>Miller's Tale."<BR>
<BR>
Well, there's another LOL! <g><BR>
<BR>
Marc, how do you like being compared to Chaucer? <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:53:26 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
On 10/26/00 at 10:28 PM,  CatWhoLeaps <catwholeaps@mac.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm just getting back into Trav after a 2 year hiatus.  I own most<BR>
>of MT (except Hard Times :(, bits of CT and Gurps Traveller and<BR>
>Behind the Claw. I'm interested in perhaps starting a Gurps Trav<BR>
>campaign (the background appeals).<BR>
<BR>
>Given I don't have infinite resources for buying Trav books, which<BR>
>Gurps books would I need in order of preference?  Obviously Basic. <BR>
<BR>
Yep, if you want to run a GT game you should have the basic Gurps<BR>
Traveller.  It would be a good idea to buy Gurps 3ed, too.<BR>
<BR>
>Is Gurps Space necessary/useful? or the Compendiums? <BR>
<BR>
Necessary, no.  Useful, yes.  I'd get Space (if I didn't have it<BR>
already) before either of the Compendiums.<BR>
<BR>
>or would other books in the Gurps Trav line (Alien races and so on)<BR>
>be better?<BR>
<BR>
Gurps Far Trader is the best of a uniformly good line, and if you<BR>
plan on a "merchant" campaign it's almost a must.  However, seeing<BR>
as you said you already have MT you don't really *need* any of the<BR>
the GT books.  Any of them would be useful, but the basic GT book<BR>
and Gurps Basic are all you really have to have.<BR>
<BR>
>Sorry if this is one of those perennial questions...<BR>
<BR>
It is, but that's perfectly okay. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:58:57 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
On 10/27/00 at 03:06 PM,  "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>James Jensen wrote:<BR>
>> If you have CT/MT/TNE/T4, you don't need Space (recommended if<BR>
>> you have interest in non-Trav games or even just writing sci-fi,<BR>
>> though).<BR>
<BR>
>I have the original GURPS Space and the current edition is, what,<BR>
>3rd?  I'd like to ask: how much has changed in  GURPS Space  from<BR>
>the original to the current edition, and is it  worth  buying  an<BR>
>uptodate copy?<BR>
<BR>
Biggest difference I saw is the modular starship construction<BR>
section.  I rather like it.  I'm not sure everyone would consider it<BR>
worth buying if they already have the original.  OTOH, I did and I'm<BR>
not even running a GT game.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:53:21 -0400<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: books that survived<BR>
<BR>
First, I want to note that given that Terra itself was apparently not bombed<BR>
or invaded during the Interstellar Wars, it's likely that much of its<BR>
pre-starflight heritage was preserved *somewhere* on the planet, in<BR>
archives, libraries and museums. So the question is what has survived to be<BR>
reasonably familiar to the educated Imperial of the 57th century.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think that any genre fiction--scifi, horror, romance--will survive.<BR>
Genre fiction has been written for centuries, and only the very rare example<BR>
survives. Stephen King's sheer productivity won't buy him immortality.<BR>
Anyone ever hear of Ned Buntline? He (and the writers he commissioned to<BR>
write under his name) produed literally hundreds of Western dime novels in<BR>
the 19th century. He mostly survives as a bit of "color" in modern Western<BR>
novels.<BR>
<BR>
Likewise, there were hundreds of writers writing "domestic fiction" in the<BR>
19th Century that are totally unknown today.<BR>
<BR>
The books that survive, if history is our guide, will likely be the books<BR>
that have something to say about the human condition, and do so with strong<BR>
characters, dramatic situations, etc. Most genre fiction, scifi included<BR>
(and I say this as some one who's been reading scifi since I could read,<BR>
starting with Verne) simply isn't written well enough to go on, especially<BR>
in terms of characterization.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, it should also be noted that the 'literary canon' changes often,<BR>
moving with the tastes of the times. For seventy years, "Moby Dick" was an<BR>
unregarded novel by the writer of two more popular adventure stories set in<BR>
the South Pacific. Now it is considered one of the two or three best novels<BR>
ever written by an American. YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
So, leaving aside Shakespeare and the holy books of the various religions<BR>
(which IMTU, at least, are all still practiced in one form or another),<BR>
here's a short list of my books to survive. I'll stick mostly to the English<BR>
canon; other cultures will contribute, of course, but I'm not familiar<BR>
enough with them to make a guess:<BR>
<BR>
"Moby Dick" (a gold mine for references to Shakespeare and the Bible, if any<BR>
parts of those works don't survive)<BR>
<BR>
"The Divine Comedy" and "Paradise Lost"<BR>
<BR>
"In Search of Lost Time" (better known as "A Remembrance of Things Past";<BR>
Solomani of French descent will keep this one alive.)<BR>
<BR>
Canon demands that "The Lord of the Rings" survive, although I'm not<BR>
convinced about its "legs."<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to think "Heart of Darkness" makes it, but the anti-colonial<BR>
message might not go over well in the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Other folks that probably don't survive: Faulkner (too place and time<BR>
specific); Joyce (ditto); "Gravity's Rainbow" (see above, though in *my* TU<BR>
somebody's still reading Pybnchon); Orwell (too uncomfortable for the ruling<BR>
class); the Declaration of Independence (ditto; however, the British Bill of<BR>
Rights is probably a foundation document of the Imperium); Das Kapital<BR>
(obscure); Eliot (on the way out even now; might be useful for his<BR>
allusions); Wallace Stevens (damn!); Robert Frost (double-damn!); Spenser,<BR>
Kit Marlowe (known to specialists)...<BR>
<BR>
Fred "Too much canon studies" Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:01:06 -0400<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>
step:<BR>
<BR>
What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>
<BR>
For my money:<BR>
<BR>
Mozart survives, or I'm taking my dice and going home. Ditto for Bach and<BR>
Beethoven.<BR>
<BR>
Some gloomy Solomani in the Rim still listen to Mahler.<BR>
<BR>
At least one Verdi opera. The "real" Ring--Wagner's--has to have its<BR>
listeners, especially among the Solomani Party elite ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Cole Porter oughta continue on, though many of his songs might now be<BR>
attributed as "Traditional Solomani"<BR>
<BR>
Ditto Gershwin.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm...Duke Ellington. One or two Lennon/McCartney songs. "Hail Hail Rock and<BR>
Roll." Another rock song that we would never expect to continue ("Hotel<BR>
California," with the words changed? I dunno...)<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:05:55 -0400<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: What Sports Survived?<BR>
<BR>
Continuing on...<BR>
<BR>
Which sports followed the Solomani exodus into the Ziru Sirka?<BR>
<BR>
Two immediately come to mind:<BR>
<BR>
Football (no, not the peculiar mix of brutality, athleticism, and<BR>
infantry-squad tactics we play in America) and handball.<BR>
<BR>
Both have the advantages of (relatively) simple rules and an equipment list<BR>
that reads: ball. Handball especially might be popular on vacuum worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Captain Sisko aside, will anyone play baseball anymore? Will they get in a<BR>
lather about the Intrasystem Series? Most importantly, will the bloody damn<BR>
Greater New York Yankees *still* win the World Series every three years?<BR>
<BR>
Fred "I got run over by the Subway Series" Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:51:53<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Planet X discovered!<BR>
<BR>
At 07:10 PM 10/26/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Well. This just blows Bode's Law right out the window, doesn't it?<BR>
><BR>
>Pluto did that already. Also, there's been speculation that you can get<BR>
>bodies at "half-intervals". It was possible to get a fairly good fit to<BR>
>the pre-Pioneer/Voyager satellite systems of the outer planets. <BR>
<BR>
I've heard some discussion that the oddities of the outer solar system are<BR>
evidence that something Really Bad occurred out there, messing up several<BR>
orbits.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:54:38<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Tee sizes<BR>
<BR>
At 09:25 AM 10/27/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>Mark Cook did indeed design the Brubek's logo.  He gave me a low-rez copy of<BR>
>it so that I could include it on some of the shipping containers in the<BR>
>Starports artwork.<BR>
<BR>
And I know a guy who does neon lighting as a hobby.. hehehehehe...<BR>
<BR>
Loren, what kind of permission would we need to do up such a sign for a con<BR>
party?  (You're invited, of course.)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:24:18 EDT<BR>
From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: What Sports Survived?<BR>
<BR>
>Captain Sisko aside, will anyone play baseball anymore? Will they get in a <BR>
>lather about the Intrasystem Series? Most importantly, will the bloody damn <BR>
>Greater New York Yankees *still* win the World Series every three years?<BR>
<BR>
The Japanese take baseball -- and their peculiar ritualistic take on the <BR>
sport -- with them to the Zodia colonies. The Aslan pick it up from them....<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Paul Drye<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:26:34 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: "Traveller List" <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
>Subject: What Music Survived?<BR>
>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:01:06 -0400<BR>
><BR>
>Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>
>step:<BR>
><BR>
>What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>
><BR>
>For my money:<BR>
><BR>
>Mozart survives, or I'm taking my dice and going home. Ditto for Bach and<BR>
>Beethoven.<BR>
><BR>
>Some gloomy Solomani in the Rim still listen to Mahler.<BR>
><BR>
>At least one Verdi opera. The "real" Ring--Wagner's--has to have its<BR>
>listeners, especially among the Solomani Party elite ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>Cole Porter oughta continue on, though many of his songs might now be<BR>
>attributed as "Traditional Solomani"<BR>
><BR>
>Ditto Gershwin.<BR>
><BR>
>Hmm...Duke Ellington. One or two Lennon/McCartney songs. "Hail Hail Rock <BR>
>and<BR>
>Roll." Another rock song that we would never expect to continue ("Hotel<BR>
>California," with the words changed? I dunno...)<BR>
><BR>
>Fred Ramen<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
The James Jensen List of Modern Musics for the Far Future (AKA My List of <BR>
Favorites):<BR>
<BR>
"We Built This City" - Starship<BR>
<BR>
"Missippi Squirrel Revival", "The Streak", and most other Ray Stevens songs.<BR>
<BR>
"Cosmic Castaway" by Electrasy and "Not Quite Paradise" by Bliss (I liked <BR>
Titan AE, but, honestly, these were the only songs I remembered!)<BR>
<BR>
"Stairway to Heaven"<BR>
<BR>
"American Pie" - Don MacLean (though by the 57th century, it may well be <BR>
"Imperial Pie", or even >shudder< "The Traveller Saga" (modified, of <BR>
course))<BR>
<BR>
"Smuggler's Blues" - Glenn Frey<BR>
<BR>
And, last but not least:<BR>
<BR>
"The Devil Went Down to Georgia" (sung later as "Dulinor Went Down to Sylea" <BR>
most likely)<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:29:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Jesse Degraff" <jedegraf@cisco.com><BR>
Subject: RE: What Sports Survived?<BR>
<BR>
LOL!!  Better that than (American) football, rugby, or <<shudder!!>> ice<BR>
hockey :)<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Paul Drye<BR>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 6:24 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: What Sports Survived?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Captain Sisko aside, will anyone play baseball anymore? Will they get in a<BR>
>lather about the Intrasystem Series? Most importantly, will the bloody damn<BR>
>Greater New York Yankees *still* win the World Series every three years?<BR>
<BR>
The Japanese take baseball -- and their peculiar ritualistic take on the<BR>
sport -- with them to the Zodia colonies. The Aslan pick it up from them....<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Paul Drye<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:38:35 EDT<BR>
From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>
Subject: The Wreck of the Old M:0<BR>
<BR>
James Jensen wrote:<BR>
> Okay - I'm desperate. In the M0 sourcebook, a map of the Core sector is <BR>
>provided, along with a list of worlds. My question is: WHAT THE HECK DOES <BR>
>THIS MEAN?<BR>
<BR>
      I wasn't around when it happened, but based on the text, material on <BR>
the web, and various comments that have appeared the list over the past <BR>
couple of years, I offer the following forensic reconstruction of the wreck <BR>
of M:0.  I could be wrong in some details, but this has to be pretty much <BR>
what must have happened.  Be warned, it's gruesome.<BR>
    In the beginning there was the CT Atlas of the Imperium, which gives <BR>
subsector maps for the entire Imperium, including Core sector. Someone had <BR>
developed this sector in full detail for M:1100, but it wasn't part of <BR>
published canon.  When the main T4 rulebook was written, the star map in AotI <BR>
was used, but Sylea was placed in Subsector K instead of subsector G where <BR>
AotI had it. Entirely new names and UWPs were generated for this subsector <BR>
from scratch.<BR>
     The text of M:0 fits much better with the map that appears in the main <BR>
T4 rule book than it does with the one that appears in M:0. A couple of maps <BR>
of expansion of the early Imperium also appear on the web and seem to match <BR>
the text reasonably well.<BR>
     But then, a computer program was used to backdate the old M:1100 data <BR>
for First Survey, using similar rules to those presented in TNE for <BR>
determining the effects of  the collapse, and apparently random generation of <BR>
Vilani names. This put Sylea and the Sylean federation in its old position in <BR>
subsector G. This had the bug reported earlier of making the Law Level and <BR>
Government type the same. The output of this program was used for First <BR>
Survey. A couple of  hasty fixes, such as the UWP of Sylea and names of major <BR>
worlds that appeard in AotI were made, but most of the adjustments that would <BR>
have been needed to bring it into line with T4 and the text were never done.  <BR>
Then the Core sector from First Survey was simply copied and pasted into the <BR>
M:0 book.<BR>
     It appears that the program was rerun with the bug fixed, and there is a <BR>
corrected version on the web: some names are given as notes; probably the <BR>
names of high population worlds as given in AotI; but without modifications <BR>
to the UWP.  In the M:0 hardback, there was an attempt to give a fix for the <BR>
identical government type and law level, but this did nothing for the <BR>
inconsistency with the text or T4.<BR>
<BR>
     If this reconstruction is accurate, this is the same Modus Operandi that <BR>
has has been reported for other IG products. But  regardless of how it <BR>
happened, we are left with badly broken M:0 canon, which partly accounts for <BR>
why so few people do much with it.  I suggest three possible fixes:<BR>
    1) Ignore the T4 map and and use M:0/First Survey data, and patch up <BR>
inconsistencies with the text as best you can.<BR>
    2) Ignore M:0/First Survey UWP for Core sector, Subsector K, and use the <BR>
map and planetary data in the main T4 book instead. Ignore planetary <BR>
affiliations listed in Subsector G.  Adjust the UWP's of planets mentioned in <BR>
the M:0 text to match the given information.<BR>
     3) Do something else entirely.<BR>
<BR>
    I'd already committed myself IMTU to the first alternative before I <BR>
figured out what must have happened.  If I were to do it over again, I'd <BR>
probably pick the second. If Marc is working on M:200, I'd like to know which <BR>
of these fixes he would recommend.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thad Coons<BR>
"Art is the lie that shows us the truth" -- Picasso<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:38:38 EDT<BR>
From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>
Subject: Jobs for Characters<BR>
<BR>
Hello again!<BR>
<BR>
    I've just lurking for most of the past year, and entirely absent for a <BR>
few months.  Since I got my contributor's copy of 101 Patrons, I've been <BR>
doing a little bit more with Traveller, and some ideas have been gestating.  <BR>
Here's a couple of them.<BR>
<BR>
Jobs<BR>
    For GM's and referees who want to describe a character quickly, a good <BR>
approach is to begin, not with a physical description, but by the job he (or <BR>
she) does.  A quick scheme for generating NPCs is to pick a job and the <BR>
skills that are associated with that job; identify the character's place in <BR>
society;  pick an age and other personal attributes; and add more skills and <BR>
biographical information.  A job is not the same as a career, although for an <BR>
NPC, one of these jobs is likely to be a career.  For PCs, these are more <BR>
likely to be the kinds of things a character did in a term or a year of <BR>
character generation; or temporary jobs done to earn some extra cash or <BR>
experience; or even things that can be done during an adventure.<BR>
    Often, giving a list of jobs a character has had can be much more <BR>
revealing and suggestive than a dead boring list of skills.  Which gives a <BR>
better idea of a character; Admin-1 Rifle-1; or  "Infantry divisional supply <BR>
clerk"? <BR>
    Since many jobs involve use of two or three primary skills, there are <BR>
potentially thousands of jobs involving different pairs of skills.  Since <BR>
these can be hard to think of on the spur of the moment, I've been working <BR>
out some of the useful combinations. <BR>
<BR>
Organization<BR>
    Somewhere around a year ago, I posted an adaptation of military ranks to <BR>
handle corporations and other large organizations.  Combine these with a <BR>
combination of jobs, and presto!  you have the skeleton of an organization.  <BR>
Is there any interest in either of these?<BR>
<BR>
Leadership.<BR>
        Leadership skill is the ability to direct the work of others.  Among <BR>
other things, It includes elements of having a vision, goal, or direction; <BR>
delegation of tasks and effective follow-up; personal charisma,  and the <BR>
ability to persuade, resolve disputes, and the like..  Since leadership can <BR>
be applied to so many different things, "leader" is not itself a good job <BR>
title.  Instead, to be meaningful, it needs to be added to some other kind of <BR>
skill to indicate what is being led.  There are those who attempt to lead <BR>
without being competent in the specialty of those they are leading, but they <BR>
are usually despised.  Leadership skill is needed to lead a group of more <BR>
than 6 people.  Those who hold high position without having leadership skills <BR>
appropriate to the position are invariably puppets and figureheads for those <BR>
who exercise the real leadership.  On the other hand, high levels of <BR>
leadership allow better modifiers and allow one to lead larger groups of <BR>
people, and hierarchical organizations.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Related Jobs: <BR>
    Administrator.  Leaders with administrative skill can handle large, <BR>
complex organizations and enterprises.  Generally speaking, officers should <BR>
have at least 1 level of either administrative or leadership skill for every <BR>
two Officer ranks, and at least 1 level of  leadership for every four ranks.<BR>
    Government official.  Leaders with legal skill are often found in <BR>
executive, legislative, or judicial roles of government or other <BR>
organizations large enough to need an internal government.   <BR>
    Merchant.  Leaders with merchant skill tend to be the heads of business <BR>
corporations or have high-level positions in business-related operations of <BR>
other organizations.  <BR>
    Educator.  Leaders with instructional experience may be found in <BR>
positions from classroom teacher to school administrator.  <BR>
    Security officer.  Leaders with "light combat" skills are found at the <BR>
heads of guard and police forces.  <BR>
    Military officer.  Leaders with heavy weapons skills are usually found as <BR>
officers in the regular military.  <BR>
    Artistic director.  Depending on the particular artistic skill, these <BR>
might be theatrical directors, Choreographers and dance directors, Musical <BR>
conductors, advertising executives, editors, or other such positions.  <BR>
     Service director.  Depending on the skill, these are usually department <BR>
heads, chief psychologists, or senior stewards.  <BR>
    Foremen.  These are leaders of herders, farmers, builders, mechanics, <BR>
machinists, artisans, and the like. <BR>
     Technical  Foremen.  These are often found leading groups of <BR>
technicians, such as those with electronics, gravitics, robotics, computing, <BR>
or starship engineering.<BR>
    Vehicle officer.  Leadership allows one to direct multiple vehicles with <BR>
one or two crew, or act as an officer on vehicles requiring a larger crew; <BR>
especially aircraft and watercraft.<BR>
    Spaceship officer.  Although most small free traders have crews small <BR>
enough that the captain does not need more than default leadership skill,  <BR>
larger vehicles require the senior officers to have leadership skill.<BR>
    Social skills.  There are few regular jobs that require carousing, <BR>
fast-talk, diplomacy, intimidation, persuasion, or language skills in <BR>
addition to leadership except perhaps senior diplomats, but these do help <BR>
determine the style of leadership.  Personal charisma (Carousing), Rational <BR>
persuasion (Liaison, persuasion, or diplomacy); psychological manipulation; <BR>
(Interrogation, interview) or even intimidation, are a few of the <BR>
possibilities.<BR>
    Clandestine skills.  Organized and career criminals, and police and <BR>
security agencies both  combine leadership with clandestine activities of <BR>
gambling, intrusion, forgery, and bribery.  Underworld leaders invariably <BR>
have streetwise skill.  Police and security officials usually have less of it <BR>
and may lack it entirely.<BR>
    Investigative skills.  Those cultures that have employ large hunting <BR>
parties require leadership skill.  Large-scale mapping and survey efforts and <BR>
research projects will usually a leader in charge.<BR>
    Scientific skills.  The larger scientific research projects usually have <BR>
a lead scientist.  Whether any of the natural or human scientists even have <BR>
research projects big enough to warrant teams of people working on them is <BR>
culture-dependent. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Physical skills.  Depending on the planet, there may be drop capsule, <BR>
grav belt; skydiving, track, acrobatic and gymnastic, track, climbing and <BR>
swimming teams, not to mention other team sports that involve some <BR>
combination of these and other skills.  Sports teams inevitably have <BR>
captains, coaches, or both, who need leadership skill.<BR>
<BR>
Plot ideas<BR>
    Situations that require leadership skill include: building an <BR>
organization from scratch, expanding, reorganizing, or downsizing a group; <BR>
taking over leadership and giving new direction to a group; dealing with <BR>
hostile subordinates and internal challenges; and dealing with external <BR>
threats. PCs will probably not get to use leadership as much as they do other <BR>
skills unless they quit travelling and settle down.  Career leaders are <BR>
generally too closely tied to their superiors and subordinates to have much <BR>
freedom of movement. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thad Coons<BR>
"Art is the lie that shows us the truth" -- Picasso<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3231<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 28 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3232<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
Re: What Sports Survived<BR>
Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
Re: On to the far future<BR>
RE: What Sports Survived?<BR>
Re: Odd Question<BR>
Dulinor Went Down... [was: What Music Survived?]<BR>
RE: What Music Survived?<BR>
Miniatures Rules<BR>
RE: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
RE: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
RE: What Music Survived?<BR>
Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:53:01 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of James Jensen<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, 28 October 2000 06:54<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> The problem with predicting Sci-Fi in the 57th century is that current<BR>
> sci-fi is based upon current technology.<BR>
<BR>
I'd just lke to make a comment about this discussion in general, sorry for<BR>
picking you out for it James, but your line here sums up the problem I have<BR>
with the discussion nicely.<BR>
<BR>
The point is that science fiction in general is _not_ about technology.<BR>
<BR>
Someone once said that "SF" doesn't really stand for science fiction but for<BR>
_social_ fiction, and the best works of SF bear this out.<BR>
<BR>
Stories such as "Gulliver's Travels" or "Inferno" (both of which I put<BR>
firmly in the "SF" genre, along with such works as "Utopia") but addressing<BR>
relevant political and social points of the 3I will be what contitutes good<BR>
SF in the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
Books like Theodore Sturgeon's "More than Human" would be interesting to<BR>
resurrect in the 3I<BR>
dealing as it does with a group of psionics trying to survive.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, anything to do with psionics would be "racy" and might even be<BR>
banned, so we would have things like Julian May's Galactic Milieu series<BR>
being very SF to 3I audiences. Postulating an "Empire" ruled by benevolent<BR>
psionics of much greater power than most Zhodani, who are considered the<BR>
good guys, that's pretty far out to a member og the 3I<BR>
<BR>
And even with the technological angle, Traveller technology while in some<BR>
ways magical to our eyes, is not ultra-tech in most areas. Stories such as<BR>
the Lensman and Skylark series, suitably updated would still have a "gee<BR>
whiz" factor in the 3I, as would some of Piers Anthony's works.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
To predict the future of sf is<BR>
> trying to look too many steps ahead. Obviously, sf in the 3I will<BR>
> be based<BR>
> on TL15 tech. Since we do not live in a TL15 society (I don't anyway), we<BR>
> cannot possibly foresee sf in the 3I!<BR>
><BR>
> -J. Jensen<BR>
> ========================================<BR>
> "It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite<BR>
> reaction.'"<BR>
> -Rev Bem<BR>
><BR>
> _________________________________________________________________________<BR>
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
><BR>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>
> http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:11:01 -0400<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: What Sports Survived<BR>
<BR>
>Captain Sisko aside, will anyone play baseball anymore? Will they get in a<BR>
>lather about the Intrasystem Series? Most importantly, will the bloody damn<BR>
>Greater New York Yankees *still* win the World Series every three years?<BR>
<BR>
"Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
>>The Japanese take baseball -- and their peculiar ritualistic take on the<BR>
sport -- with them to the Zodia colonies. The Aslan pick it up from<BR>
them....<<<BR>
<BR>
Great. So not only do the Mets still have to worry about the Yankees, but<BR>
now I've got to contend with the Yomiuri Giants. And let's not even *think*<BR>
about what the Yerlyaruiwo Catsclaws can do...<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:25:51 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
<BR>
On 10/26/00 at 10:20 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me.  The Solomani<BR>
>> offensive should have run out of steam at or about Capital.  I am<BR>
>> reminded of a quote from the time of the Wars of Religion in<BR>
>> France "They would take the Grand Turk as King, as long as he<BR>
>> would bring peace".<BR>
<BR>
>It's one of the things that's always bugged me, too.  I can't see<BR>
>how the Solomani couldn't have taken Daibei, the Solomani Rim (all<BR>
>of it) and all of Diaspora, as well as what canon says they got<BR>
>before their initial advance stalled.  Later on they could only do<BR>
>better, as of all the involved factions they had by far the biggest<BR>
>safe, and it was _all_ out of raiding/black war strike range of<BR>
>everyone else.  What's more their internal strife started too late<BR>
>to really affect them until right before it all came crashing down<BR>
>(in canon).<BR>
<BR>
I'm not canonical...as everyone knows...but I'm running a "Hard<BR>
Times" PBEM set in Reaver's Deep where I'm trying to stay close to<BR>
the OTU timeline through the mid 1120's.  With the Domain of Daibei,<BR>
the Solomani, and the Aslan bordering the deep I've had to do some<BR>
serious thinking about what happens *after* that date.  <BR>
<BR>
I've concluded that unless something (or someone) stops them the<BR>
Solomani should dominate the entire area by the end of the 1120's.<BR>
Seeing as I don't want that to happen, something (or someone) *will*<BR>
stop them...IMTU.<BR>
<BR>
Not to give anything away, but I'm thinking the Solomani are about<BR>
to get whipsawed by both internal and external attacks.  Internally,<BR>
the time is ripe for the billions and billions of "impure", and<BR>
opressed, races in Solomani territory to rise against the men of<BR>
Sol. Externally, the Aslan decide to unleash their landless on the<BR>
Solomani, with whom they *don't* have a treaty.  Between the two<BR>
threats the Solomani find they have over extended themselves just<BR>
recovering part of their former terriory.  By the later 1120's they<BR>
have retrenched and are trying to pacify their own rear areas and<BR>
defend their own borders from incursions by Aslan fleets.<BR>
<BR>
From the late 1120's onward the area rimward of Reaver's Deep and<BR>
Daibei turns into a buffer of independent, Aslan dominated (or<BR>
influenced) worlds that spreads trailing and coreward as time goes<BR>
on.  This area creates a wild and wooly buffer between the Solomani,<BR>
the splintered Deep and the fractured states of the former Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:29:19 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
>Cole Porter oughta continue on, though many of his songs might now be<BR>
>attributed as "Traditional Solomani"<BR>
<BR>
 "What IS that?"<BR>
 "Sounds like Cole Porter, sir!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:43:28 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
<BR>
On 10/26/00 at 06:45 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Agreed - a functioning TL14/15 society, with the biggest industrial<BR>
> base in Known Space should have just agreed a peace treaty with<BR>
>the  Vegans, and carried on into the core.<BR>
<BR>
Should'a. <g> Doesn't mean they would.<BR>
<BR>
>I seem to remember that the DGP material suggested political <BR>
>infighting causing the ceasation of the Solomani offensive.<BR>
<BR>
I inferred that the hardliners won the Solomani version of "The<BR>
Night of the Long Knives" from what I read in Hard Times.  I seem to<BR>
remember there being some hanky-panky with the Vagan reproductive<BR>
system that the Solomani might have been behind.  If that came to<BR>
light a full blown revolt might have started behind Solomani lines.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:31:21 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
At 08:26 PM 10/27/00 CDT, two guys wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>
>>step:<BR>
>><BR>
>>What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>
>>Another rock song that we would never expect to continue ("Hotel<BR>
>>California," with the words changed? I dunno...)<BR>
<BR>
>And, last but not least:<BR>
><BR>
>"The Devil Went Down to Georgia" (sung later as "Dulinor Went Down to Sylea" <BR>
>most likely)<BR>
<BR>
"Welcome to the Hotel Ilelish ... "<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:50:17 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: On to the far future<BR>
<BR>
On 10/26/00 at 09:55 PM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:<BR>
<BR>
>The Solomani had their doves as well as their hawks, and each group<BR>
>contained many different sub-groups. My take is that once the<BR>
>Solomani had recaptured the territory of the original Solomani<BR>
>Autonomous Region, many semi-hawks were satisfied. The more extreme<BR>
>hawks simply didn't have enough political support to pursue the<BR>
>fight beyond that. <BR>
<BR>
IMO, with the Solomani, it wasn't hawks vs doves that did them in. It was the hardline Solomani purity freaks that did them in. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:12:38 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: What Sports Survived?<BR>
<BR>
Cricket, of course.<BR>
<BR>
The Vilani still don't understand how the Solomani managed to invent the<BR>
perfect Vilani bat & ball game.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:13:09 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>
<BR>
For reference, here's the order of precedence of the Imperial Guard <BR>
regiments from Terry McInnes' TD9 article on the Guard.  Each domain<BR>
archduke supposedly added a regiment as the domain was organized.<BR>
Your milage may vary; also note that some of the regiments have been<BR>
disbanded and reestablished over the years so it doesn't have to be<BR>
strictly correct.<BR>
<BR>
  Sylean Guard                 only regiment at founding<BR>
  Vland Guard<BR>
  Gateway Guard<BR>
  Ilelish Guard<BR>
  Antares Guard<BR>
  (Imperial Artillery)         added 250<BR>
  (Household Cavalry)          added 250<BR>
  (Spinward Marches Guard)     added 550<BR>
  (Marine Guard)               added 629<BR>
  (Aslan Guard)*               <BR>
  Solomani Guard**             reest. 1050<BR>
<BR>
 * The Aslan Guard was founded in 350, so why are they so junior?  The<BR>
   text says they were nearly destroyed by Olav I while giving Jacqueline's<BR>
   Marine Escort Force time to set up the inner defence.  My guess is that<BR>
   Olav disbanded them in 606, and Arbellatra reestablished them in 629,<BR>
   just after she created the Marine Guard (a separate, larger unit than<BR>
   the four-company MEF).<BR>
** According to the text, the Solomani unit was disbanded in 990 and was<BR>
   reestablished in 1050, which is why it's junior now.<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:22:05 -0400<BR>
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Dulinor Went Down... [was: What Music Survived?]<BR>
<BR>
>"The Devil Went Down to Georgia" (sung later as "Dulinor Went Down to Sylea"<BR>
>most likely)<BR>
><BR>
>- -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
You asked for it:<BR>
<BR>
***<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor Went Down To Sylea<BR>
(Filk'd from 'Devil Went Down To Georgia'<BR>
      by the Charlie Daniels Band)<BR>
<BR>
<CUE fiddle intro....><BR>
<BR>
Dulior went down to Sylea<BR>
He was lookin' for a Throne to steal<BR>
He was in a bind, his reforms were behind<BR>
And he wasn't gonna make a deal.<BR>
<BR>
Time passed by, he came upon Lucan,<BR>
Runnin' the 3I and playing it hot<BR>
So he jumped up on a Research Station and said,<BR>
"Boy, lemmie tell you what.<BR>
<BR>
"I guess you didn't notice, but I say I'm the Emperor, too<BR>
And if you care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.<BR>
Now, you rule the Empire pretty good,<BR>
But give Dulior his due.<BR>
I'll bet an Illelish fleet, against your Core<BR>
To prove I'm better than you."<BR>
<BR>
The boy said, "My name's Lucan, and I don't care if it's a sin,<BR>
An' I'll take your bet, you're gonna regret,<BR>
'Cause I'm the best there ever is!"<BR>
<BR>
Lucan, summon all your staff<BR>
And work your navy hard<BR>
'Cause Dulior's loose in Illelish<BR>
And his brother deals the cards.<BR>
And if you win you get this Empire of thirty-thousand worlds<BR>
But if you loose, you know that you'll be hosed!<BR>
<BR>
Dulior launched his fleets and said<BR>
"I'll start this show!"<BR>
'Cause fire'd flown from his body pistol<BR>
As he struck the fatal blow.<BR>
He'd fired it thrice, and all the bullets<BR>
Did make an evil hiss.<BR>
And Illelish Guardsmen then jumped in<BR>
And it sounded something like this...<BR>
<BR>
<fiddle interlude, interspiced with sounds of PGMP fire and gunned escorts <BR>
flying overhead><BR>
<BR>
When Dulior started, Lucan said,<BR>
"Well, you're pretty good, old son!<BR>
But sit in that sector right there,<BR>
And lemmie show you how it's done!"<BR>
<BR>
Fire on Cymbelline, seeds of Virus sow!<BR>
Dulior's got his back against the Claw!<BR>
Brzk in Antares, Strephon makes a show!<BR>
Black War looming, nowhere to go!<BR>
<BR>
Dulior released the Virus<BR>
And Coronation fleet crashed<BR>
And the devil of Illelish,<BR>
Black Dulior by a combine he was thrashed.<BR>
And as the 3I crumbled 'round him,<BR>
Lucan said, "Come back, I'll nuke you again!<BR>
I done told you once, you damn pretender,<BR>
I'm the only Emperor there is!"<BR>
<BR>
Fire on Cymbelline, seeds of Virus sow!<BR>
Dulior's got his back against the Claw!<BR>
Brzk in Antares, Strephon makes a show!<BR>
Black War looming, nowhere to go!<BR>
<BR>
<fiddle postlude><BR>
<BR>
***<BR>
<BR>
Reading this back, it's a bit slipshod, and a hell of a lot darker than the <BR>
original Charlie Daniels classic.  I should have probably let this one stay <BR>
in the closet, the Black War is a pretty grim time, and is probably better <BR>
filked by, well, the likes of 'Life in Wartime.' =/ Still, 'Dulior Came <BR>
Down To Sylea' is what we started with, so....<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, presented for your perusal.  Comments welcome.  It's too damn <BR>
depressing....<BR>
- ---<BR>
==============================================================<BR>
Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE       NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com<BR>
System Administrator         http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
       Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK<BR>
IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Current PGPKey Fingerprint (18 July 2000)<BR>
       E20D 4E41 533E AAD0 60B8  66DD 2908 F6E4 923F C225<BR>
Public Key: http://www.waypointcentral.net/Team/Jonathan/Keys/<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
           "As above, so below; as below, so above."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:29:15 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
"Jerusalem"<BR>
"Oh Tannenbaum/The Red Flag"<BR>
"Stairway to Heaven"<BR>
"Louie Louie"<BR>
"New York"<BR>
"Auld Lang Syne"<BR>
"Stand By Me"<BR>
"Alices Restaurant"<BR>
"Unchained Melody"<BR>
<BR>
But all the words will have been changed by then, though in at least one<BR>
case it won't matter.<BR>
<BR>
Random excreta from my tired brain :<BR>
<BR>
"Stand by Me" the Battle Song of the Sylean Third Marine Guards regiment,<BR>
explained to the modern audience :<BR>
<BR>
When the Night is Long ( the Long Night, you understand )<BR>
And the land is dark   ( the power plant has died, y'know )<BR>
And the moon           ( that's no moon, that's a Tigress !!)<BR>
is the only<BR>
light to see           (image intensifier's on full)<BR>
<BR>
I won't be afraid      (then why is your visor misting up ?)<BR>
No, I won't be afraid  (Say it again and we might start believing it)<BR>
Just as long<BR>
as you stand,<BR>
Stand by Me            (addressed to a marine in full battledrress carrying<BR>
a PGMP<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There's a lady who's sure<BR>
all the coynes are of gold<BR>
And she's buying a passage to Fulacin...<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:35:26 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Miniatures Rules<BR>
<BR>
For Traveller miniatures rules we have Striker and Striker II. I have played<BR>
a bit of Striker as well as many games using Tractics. All of these rules<BR>
are a bit on the old side. What is the state-of-the-art for skirmish-level<BR>
armor games these days?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:41:35 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The point is that science fiction in general is _not_ about technology.<BR>
><BR>
> Someone once said that "SF" doesn't really stand for science<BR>
> fiction but for<BR>
> _social_ fiction, and the best works of SF bear this out.<BR>
<BR>
I am far from an expert on the subject, since I don't actually read science<BR>
fiction these days (and haven't for well over ten years), but I understand<BR>
that there are subclasses of SF, one of which is called something like "hard<BR>
science fiction," in which the author thinks of a clever application of<BR>
advanced or speculative technology and basically uses his story to show this<BR>
technology in operation. Even in the advanced TLs of the Traveller universe<BR>
we are likely to have speculation on future technologies, and the supporting<BR>
works of fiction to showcase the speculation. The big difference is that the<BR>
subject of the speculation will change quite a bit over the next thousand<BR>
years or so. Even in an age in which matter transport is actually possible<BR>
(TL 16, which represents a significant fraction of the population of the<BR>
3I), you will still have speculation about what comes next, and that will<BR>
probably be represented in the SF of the Traveller universe.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, "social fiction" will exist, but that's not the really fun stuff.<BR>
IMNSHO.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:00:04 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 10/26/00 at 10:20 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me.  The Solomani<BR>
> >> offensive should have run out of steam at or about Capital.  I am<BR>
> >> reminded of a quote from the time of the Wars of Religion in<BR>
> >> France "They would take the Grand Turk as King, as long as he<BR>
> >> would bring peace".<BR>
> <BR>
> >It's one of the things that's always bugged me, too.  I can't see<BR>
> >how the Solomani couldn't have taken Daibei, the Solomani Rim (all<BR>
> >of it) and all of Diaspora, as well as what canon says they got<BR>
> >before their initial advance stalled.  Later on they could only do<BR>
> >better, as of all the involved factions they had by far the biggest<BR>
> >safe, and it was _all_ out of raiding/black war strike range of<BR>
> >everyone else.  What's more their internal strife started too late<BR>
> >to really affect them until right before it all came crashing down<BR>
> >(in canon).<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm not canonical...as everyone knows...but I'm running a "Hard<BR>
> Times" PBEM set in Reaver's Deep where I'm trying to stay close to<BR>
> the OTU timeline through the mid 1120's.  With the Domain of Daibei,<BR>
> the Solomani, and the Aslan bordering the deep I've had to do some<BR>
> serious thinking about what happens *after* that date.<BR>
> <BR>
> I've concluded that unless something (or someone) stops them the<BR>
> Solomani should dominate the entire area by the end of the 1120's.<BR>
> Seeing as I don't want that to happen, something (or someone) *will*<BR>
> stop them...IMTU.<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips description of Solomani overextension>><BR>
<BR>
Alternately, assuming that the Solomani military leaders have read the<BR>
ancient Terran text _On War_ (by Karl von Clausewitz), the Solomani<BR>
military leaders could have recognized that they were near the<BR>
culmination point of their offensive.  At this point, realizing the<BR>
folly of overextension, they may well have halted their offensive<BR>
operations for a few decades, to allow the Solomani Confederation to<BR>
consolidate its gains and prepare for the next major offensive.  Note<BR>
that this matches the pattern seen during the Interstellar Wars between<BR>
the Terran Confederation and the Ziru Sirka.<BR>
<BR>
This interpretation both explains the lack of Solomani expansion beyond<BR>
the gains achieved by 1120 and provides a rationale for a powerful,<BR>
growing, yet insular Solomani military within the current borders of the<BR>
Solomani Confederation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:30:49 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
At 12:12 AM 10/27/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Dom wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>
> >they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>
><BR>
>Since I'm sure that lots of other folks will put the focus on sci-fi, I'm<BR>
>going to go light on the genre stuff. I'm also going to leave out sacred<BR>
>texts, such as the Bible, the Koran and on, simply because these books would<BR>
>take up way too many slots. Same thing with the works of Shakespeare, Edgar<BR>
>Allan Poe, Homer and so on.<BR>
><BR>
>Tentatively, I propose the following:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Plato, "The Republic" - In a "good" Imperium, it's almost certain to be<BR>
>required reading for the nobility.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed<BR>
<BR>
>Lewis Mumford, "Technics and Civilization" - The seminal work on the effects<BR>
>of technological development on the way people think.<BR>
<BR>
Haven't read that one. How about James Burke's "The Day the Universe Changed"<BR>
<BR>
>Paul Kennedy, "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change &<BR>
>Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000" - Historically, it just doesn't get<BR>
>much better than this. Some claim that Kennedy missed the mark, mainly due<BR>
>to his extrapolations about the Cold War, but he wasn't off as wildly as<BR>
>some claim. The underlying theories are quite sound.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:03:08 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen asked:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>
> step:<BR>
><BR>
> What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>
><BR>
> For my money:<BR>
><BR>
> Mozart survives, or I'm taking my dice and going home. Ditto for Bach and<BR>
> Beethoven.<BR>
><BR>
> Some gloomy Solomani in the Rim still listen to Mahler.<BR>
><BR>
> At least one Verdi opera. The "real" Ring--Wagner's--has to have its<BR>
> listeners, especially among the Solomani Party elite ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Heck, at least some of Dietrich Buxtehude's ciaconas and fugues survive,<BR>
according to the Knightfall adventure.  (When he was about twenty, J. S.<BR>
Bach walked over two hundred miles to listen to Buxtehude play, and ended<BR>
up overstaying his trip.)  They might be performed on some fairly strange<BR>
instruments, though.  :)<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:07:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I would say that the Aslan would ensure that Barbara Hambleys Chanur series<BR>
> survived.<BR>
<BR>
Was the above error intentional?<BR>
<BR>
C.J. Cherryh wrote the Chanur books...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:48:04 -0400<BR>
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
> For Traveller miniatures rules we have Striker and Striker II. I have<BR>
played<BR>
> a bit of Striker as well as many games using Tractics. All of these rules<BR>
> are a bit on the old side. What is the state-of-the-art for skirmish-level<BR>
> armor games these days?<BR>
<BR>
um... geez, I haven't even worked up the Striker II yet :-/<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:27:44 -0500<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> For Traveller miniatures rules we have Striker and Striker II. I have played<BR>
> a bit of Striker as well as many games using Tractics. All of these rules<BR>
> are a bit on the old side. What is the state-of-the-art for skirmish-level<BR>
> armor games these days?<BR>
<BR>
David Pulver wrote a three part series for JTAS (Arm of Descision) earlier this<BR>
year. A version of these rules may have found their way into GT: Ground Forces<BR>
(a simplified grav vehicle contruction system did). I'm not sure since I spent<BR>
most of my tiem in the playtest on the "how an an invasion force survive<BR>
planetary defenses?" and "why should there be aircraft at TL12?".<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:32:07 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
Don't forget Gilbert & Sullivan, anyone remember the virus infected ship<BR>
crewed by G & S droids! Yes it was named HMS Pinafore. So this at least<BR>
survived into the new era.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:40:40 -0500<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
<BR>
> >I'm just getting back into Trav after a 2 year hiatus.  I own most of MT<BR>
> >(except Hard Times :(, bits of CT and Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw.<BR>
> >I'm interested in perhaps starting a Gurps Trav campaign (the background<BR>
> >appeals).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Given I don't have infinite resources for buying Trav books, which Gurps<BR>
> >books would I need in order of preference?  Obviously Basic.  Is Gurps<BR>
> >Space<BR>
> >necessary/useful? or the Compendiums? or would other books in the Gurps<BR>
> >Trav<BR>
> >line (Alien races and so on) be better?<BR>
<BR>
Compendium I is useful if you plan to make much use of alien races. Basic Set<BR>
has enough on psi powers that you don't need Psionics. Space is nice, but First<BR>
In would be a better buy (and I don't think really requires it -- Jon, can you<BR>
clarify this?). The Alien races are nice, but only if you plan to do major<BR>
things with some alien races (Alien Races 1 is most relevant to the Spinward<BR>
Marches).<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3232<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 28 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3233<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: What Sports Survived?<BR>
Traveller Online<BR>
As long as we're filking...<BR>
Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>
Re: Red Zones<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: books that survived<BR>
Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
Re: Traveller Online<BR>
RE: Traveller Online<BR>
Re: Autodynamics?<BR>
Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
Re: Odd Question<BR>
ref:  Books that Survived<BR>
RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:36:15 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: What Sports Survived?<BR>
<BR>
VonRammen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Which sports followed the Solomani exodus into the Ziru Sirka?<BR>
<BR>
Golf, of course.  It was the first interplanetary game in<BR>
Solomani space.<BR>
<BR>
Every world has its own unique hazards and gravity.<BR>
Course design is an art form.  I think if you keep the rules<BR>
close to the same, especially WRT the equipment, i.e.,<BR>
you've got to keep using the same clubs (with only minor<BR>
technological improvements), the game can keep the same<BR>
feel.  That Par 5 on a small planet is 4 km.  Instead of<BR>
a sand trap, there might be an open pool of lava.  For low<BR>
atmosphere courses, players can wear vacc suits and other<BR>
support equipment.  Eneri Woods has his own brand of<BR>
tailored vacc suits, designed so that they don't effect your<BR>
swing.  There is an exoskeleton attachment for high-g<BR>
courses, but it hasn't achieved wide acceptance amongst<BR>
purists.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Football, Baseball, etc., these require atmospheres and<BR>
reasonable proximity to gravity.  So where you have those,<BR>
fine.  Since we already have domed baseball, all you<BR>
need is a well-monitored and secure artificial grav system<BR>
under a field that maintains one gravity.  While differences<BR>
in air pressure and climate are tolerated (just like they are<BR>
today), gravity must be the same.  The 1032 Aramis Black<BR>
Sox created the worst scandal in 300 years when they<BR>
tweaked the AG system to help their hitting.  It would have<BR>
been undetected if a glitch hadn't enabled an opposing<BR>
fielder to leap 50 feet when attempting a catch.<BR>
<BR>
And eating Vilani Cuisine is a sport in itself.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:38:17 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller Online<BR>
<BR>
This is mainly just an FYI.<BR>
<BR>
I have recently been hired by Playnet, and its subsidiary<BR>
Cornered Rat Software, as Assistant Producer for<BR>
Traveller Online.  Some of you may remember that I<BR>
mentioned the announcement of their plan to develop<BR>
Traveller for the massively multiplayer environment last<BR>
May.  The core of their team was behind WarBirds,<BR>
an online WWII flight combat game, which repeatedly<BR>
won Online Game of the Year in various game magazines.<BR>
<BR>
What does that mean to you?<BR>
<BR>
Well, if you like online games, it means that actual work<BR>
is being done for Traveller Online. By an organization with<BR>
an award-winning track record in online games.  What is<BR>
being worked on?  I can't say.  In fact, I can't say much<BR>
of anything. I can answer one question:  "What will it be<BR>
like?"  It will be like Traveller.  But online.  :-P<BR>
<BR>
I don't want to stir you all up into a bee's nest of questions<BR>
about when, what, where, how, etc. Computer game development<BR>
is a slooow process.  And the Cornered Rat guys, who used<BR>
to be at ICI, then Imagiconline, have two traditional responses<BR>
to "when?" questions:<BR>
the serious answer - "We don't do 'when' questions."<BR>
the fun one - "Two weeks."<BR>
<BR>
But I did think a "heads up" was in order.  (Does "heads up"<BR>
translate outside of North America?").  Of  course, I'll continue<BR>
to subscribe to the TML, as well as JTAS and Pyramid (though<BR>
these days I let many threads go unread, I'm sorry to say).<BR>
Not that I'll be giving anything away or letting you decipher<BR>
any secrets from anything I post.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
When there is any information to share which has been cleared<BR>
by Internal Security, rest assured I will make sure the list gets it.<BR>
<BR>
And that's about it.  We now return you to your regularly<BR>
scheduled showing of "Mr. Heplar's Dark Tales of the Long Night"<BR>
already in Progress.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Below is the May press-release for those of you who missed it,<BR>
with teeny bit of editting on my part.  If you want to see it for<BR>
yourself you can check out www.playnet.com, click the<BR>
5-11-00 press release, then scroll down to where it says:<BR>
<BR>
"CRS also acquired the exclusive license to develop and publish<BR>
the online massively multi-player game version for the book-based<BR>
Sci-Fi role-playing game known worldwide as Traveller.<BR>
The Traveller rule set, which was originally created by Marc Miller<BR>
in the late 1970s, has been played worldwide by millions of avid<BR>
fans for more than two decades.<BR>
<BR>
With these projects, CRS is taking the development of massively<BR>
multiplayer RPG's to a higher level with their multiple-platform design<BR>
and implementation of an assortment of never-before-seen features<BR>
for the Traveller universe.   [It] will employ the state of the art<BR>
Unity<BR>
3D Engine developed by Cornered Rat Software which allows<BR>
simultaneous game play in three separate geophysical dimensions <BR>
land, sea and air."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:53:52 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: As long as we're filking...<BR>
<BR>
Somebody suggested "Land of Confusion" by Genesis as a good basis for a<BR>
Rebellion filk.  Enjoy...<BR>
<BR>
  TIME OF CONFUSION<BR>
  (to the tune of "Land of Confusion" by Genesis)<BR>
<BR>
  Across the sector far and wide<BR>
  There rose the cry of regicide<BR>
  I can hear the cries of fear<BR>
  The whispers, from mouth to ear.<BR>
  Now did you see the new intel<BR>
  They try to claim that all is well<BR>
  But I can see the fleets above<BR>
  Guess now push comes to shove.<BR>
<BR>
  Too many heirs<BR>
  All the pretenders<BR>
  The Iridium Throne waits<BR>
  And no peace 'til it is filled<BR>
  Can't you see this is a time of confusion<BR>
<BR>
  Chorus:<BR>
    This is the time we live in<BR>
    And this is the fate we're given<BR>
    None can escape the burning<BR>
    For always the wheel keeps turning on.<BR>
<BR>
  Dulinor, where are you now<BR>
  Your perfect plan's gone wrong somehow<BR>
  The men of rank, men of power<BR>
  Are losing control by the hour.<BR>
<BR>
  This is the Core<BR>
  These are our homes<BR>
  So we look to the future<BR>
  But there's not much hope to be found<BR>
  For we know this is a time of confusion<BR>
<BR>
  (repeat chorus)<BR>
<BR>
  And somewhere is a world....<BR>
  Where two suns are shining...<BR>
  And the stars are bright<BR>
  The disastrous fight<BR>
  And the scourge is upon us<BR>
  None can match its might<BR>
  And on it goes...<BR>
<BR>
  The fleet will not come home I fear<BR>
  No Coronation will happen here<BR>
  We're only making promises<BR>
  That we know we cannot keep.<BR>
<BR>
  Too many heirs<BR>
  All the pretenders<BR>
  The Iridium Throne waits<BR>
  And no peace 'til it is filled<BR>
  Can't you see this is a time of confusion<BR>
<BR>
  (repeat chorus twice)<BR>
<BR>
There, bleak enough for y'all?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>
   |   out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:00:55 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
<BR>
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Subject: Miniatures Rules<BR>
><BR>
>For Traveller miniatures rules we have Striker and Striker II. I have played<BR>
>a bit of Striker as well as many games using Tractics. All of these rules<BR>
>are a bit on the old side. What is the state-of-the-art for skirmish-level<BR>
>armor games these days?<BR>
<BR>
  Probably inferior to your preferred version of Striker :(  At worst,<BR>
one or the other with a house rule or three to fix your pet bugbears<BR>
will work at least as well as anything you might find out there.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:44:04 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:01:06 -0400<BR>
> From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>
> step:<BR>
><BR>
> What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>
<BR>
This is a bit broader than the other questions (which all requested<BR>
specific works) but I'll give it a go:<BR>
<BR>
Bach - The master of the pipe organ and the name more or less synonymous<BR>
with baroque music.<BR>
<BR>
Beethoven - The last of the classical composers or the first of the<BR>
romantics<BR>
either way the 9th symphony rocks and the piano concertos are even better.<BR>
<BR>
Fast forwarding to the 20th century:<BR>
<BR>
Scott Joplin - Gotta love Ragtime.<BR>
<BR>
The song "Has Anybody Seen My Gal." by I don't know who. But it's classic<BR>
Tin Pan Alley stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters and the rest of the Delta Blues guys.<BR>
<BR>
Lieber & Stoller deserve the nod to for their early Rock & Roll stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Of course there are shrines to St. Elvis of the Wiggling Hips throughout<BR>
charted space.<BR>
<BR>
The Beatles. (Esp. Rubber Soul and Revolver)<BR>
<BR>
David Bowie. (I see an Nth generation copy of Diamond Dogs being<BR>
the most popular human recording in the Vargr Extents. "In the Year<BR>
of the Scavenger, Season of the Bitch....")<BR>
<BR>
Frank Zappa. (Particularly Joe's Garage so 3I cultural anthro types can<BR>
spend their time arguing over the power and pervasiveness of the<BR>
Curch of Applientology.)<BR>
<BR>
Johnny Cash. As a representative of the twangy hillbilly stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Miles Davis. Nuff said.<BR>
<BR>
For modern classical I'd nominate John Cage the man who dared to<BR>
let sound be sound.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"Every day my metal friend<BR>
Shakes my bed at 6 AM (Wake Up)<BR>
Then the shiny servant clones<BR>
Running with my telephones."<BR>
<BR>
"Living in the Plastic Age" - Horn/Downes<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:08:21 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Re: For low-tech Striker: A7V<BR>
...<BR>
>What happens with the French light tanks?  I was going to try a Whippet<BR>
><I say Whippet, Whippet good> next, but I can't find the rear & belly <BR>
>armor thickness, which crewman operated which MGs, and whether or not <BR>
>the superstructure had the same armor as the hull.<BR>
<BR>
  Armour is whatever takes it up closest to 6.1 tons w/o exceeding 14mm :)<BR>
Apparently the 3x 7.7mm's were moved about to fit whichever of the four<BR>
facings needed them at the time; presumably this involved only of the<BR>
three crew?<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:56:49 -0700<BR>
From: Edward Swatschek <traveller@bitslayer.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Red Zones<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Jimmy Simpson wrote:<BR>
> James Jensen writes:<BR>
> >Could a world just up and declare itself a red zone, or would it have to go<BR>
> >through the Imperial bureaucracy, stating its reasons, signing millions of<BR>
> >forms, etc.?<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, I think there is a precedent for this.  I believe that one of the <BR>
> worlds in the Aramis subsector was the owned by Tukera (from The Traveller <BR>
> Adventure) and they had it set up as a Red Zone.  After their mishandling <BR>
> of the affairs presented in TTA, they lost this classification (at least <BR>
> according to what I remember from Behind the Claw).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In that case it wasn't the planet's government that requested interdiction,<BR>
but that the 'owners' of the planet (Tukera) used their influence at court<BR>
to have it done.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Edward Swatschek - edjs@bitslayer.net<BR>
<BR>
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.<BR>
                -- Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, on X interfaces                       <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:07:12 -0700<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> John Groth wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > > I'd prefer Canterbury Tales to Pilgrim's Progress anyway.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Agreed.  After all, Traveller itself could be described as "the Miller's<BR>
> > Tale."<BR>
><BR>
> Isn't the Miller's Tale the one in which the carpenter's wife is having an<BR>
> affair with someone, someone gets tricked into kissing someone else on the<BR>
> butt, and someone gets poked in the butt with a hot poker? Wow, that's<BR>
> pretty far off from most Traveller games which *I* have played.<BR>
<BR>
Man you have been playing twith the wrong group then.....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Wish I was a better person...   with more control...<BR>
Turn the other cheek...   and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>
Wish I was a kinder person...   could see the others pain...<BR>
Not over react, not judge...   and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:51:12 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
Given the existance of copyright libraries, many of the books (and music, <BR>
films etc) we have today will have 'survived' (ie still have copies physically <BR>
existing). The question is then, which will have survived in the widespread <BR>
conciousness; and that is more a matter of random chance. However one <BR>
group of players in a campaign of mine were horified when the visited <BR>
Capital and found that the cultural highlight of the season was Princess <BR>
Ciencia Iphegenia doing a public reading of selected works by the great <BR>
20th Century writers Mills & Boon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:45:47 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Oct 2000, at 10:21, Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
>I imagine<BR>
> Shakespeare is immortal at this point.<BR>
<BR>
As the most quoted set of works in the English language at least bits of it <BR>
will survive as long as English does, and probably a lot longer than that.<BR>
<BR>
Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:45:47 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Oct 2000, at 16:21, Anthony Colosetti wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> OK, I've seen the responses so far and I agree that certain books (like<BR>
> religious texts) will survive into the future so I will not waste slots<BR>
> repeating them here. The following are what I would see (or more correctly, like<BR>
> to see) surviving...Of course depending on SolSec I may or may not be in trouble<BR>
> for my collection...<BR>
> <BR>
> Germinal - Zola<BR>
> Brave New World - Huxley or 1984 - Orwell<BR>
> Catcher in the Rye - Salinger<BR>
> Das Capital - Marx or The Communist Manifesto - Marx<BR>
> On the Duty of Civil Disobedience - Thoreau<BR>
> The People's History of the United States - Zinn<BR>
> The Art of War - Sun Tzu or The Prince - Machiavelli<BR>
> The Principles of Philosophy - Descarte<BR>
> Fahrenheit 451 - Bradbury<BR>
> Grimm's Fairy Tales or The Complete Mother Goose<BR>
<BR>
It's funny - I haven't seen anyone suggest that any classical romances (Jane <BR>
Austen or more recently Georgette Heyer) might survive, or those crappy Barbara <BR>
Cartland things. Given the sheer amount of those that have been printed some <BR>
are almost bound to make it (probably the worst possible). That and some sort <BR>
of porn.<BR>
<BR>
Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:48:31 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: books that survived<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Oct 2000, at 20:53, VonRammen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Canon demands that "The Lord of the Rings" survive, although I'm not<BR>
> convinced about its "legs."<BR>
<BR>
I'd suggest the C. S. Lewis' _Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_, etc don't <BR>
survive for similar reasons - the origin of the world "Aslan" is unknown, so <BR>
neither his works or the Turkish language are known to the Third Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:53:23 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Oct 2000, at 21:01, VonRammen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>
> step:<BR>
> <BR>
> What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>
> <BR>
> For my money:<BR>
> <BR>
> Mozart survives, or I'm taking my dice and going home. Ditto for Bach and<BR>
> Beethoven.<BR>
> <BR>
> Some gloomy Solomani in the Rim still listen to Mahler.<BR>
<BR>
I don't find his stuff gloomy at all. Quite dramatic and uplifting, in fact.<BR>
 <BR>
> At least one Verdi opera. The "real" Ring--Wagner's--has to have its<BR>
> listeners, especially among the Solomani Party elite ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Now Wagner's I do find gloomy.<BR>
Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:15:21 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Online<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Traveller Online<BR>
<BR>
If by head's up, you mean, make some noise if your interested, then yes I am<BR>
interested. This has to be something good. I hope the Traveller on-line<BR>
turns out to be one Hell of an excellent game.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:29:10 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Online<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Subject: Traveller Online<BR>
> <BR>
> If by head's up, you mean, make some noise if your <BR>
> interested, then yes I am<BR>
> interested.<BR>
<BR>
I though a 'heads up' was just like a FYI.<BR>
<BR>
 This has to be something good. I hope the <BR>
> Traveller on-line<BR>
> turns out to be one Hell of an excellent game.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed!<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:15:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Autodynamics?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>This is a little OT, but what with the various discussions of relativity<BR>
>>and so on that go on here...<BR>
>><BR>
>>What's the deal with Autodynamics?  It's touted as a "replacement" for<BR>
>>special relativity.  The web page (http://flic.net/~saa/) has a bit of a<BR>
>>"hard sell" feel about it, though.  Comments? Opinions?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Charles C.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
> While we shouldn't accept this blindly, I think that we ought to keep an <BR>
> open mind. A good deal of this makes more sense to me than relativity.<BR>
<BR>
Well, consider that the experimental results that led to relativity (as<BR>
well as the ones that continue to confirm it) don't "make sense" when<BR>
judged by everyday experience, "making sense" isn't a valid criterion.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:37:33 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
<BR>
> From: Luther Martin <BR>
> For Traveller miniatures rules we have Striker and Striker II. I have<BR>
> played a bit of Striker as well as many games using Tractics. All of<BR>
> these rules are a bit on the old side. What is the state-of-the-art for<BR>
> skirmish-level armor games these days?<BR>
<BR>
Warhamster!  :( :(<BR>
<BR>
Most of the tankies I've seen tend to go for games on Command Decision's<BR>
scale, rather than skirmish games.  The low level stuff tends to be<BR>
infantry oriented, like Crossfire, in which tanks are pretty close to<BR>
useless.<BR>
<BR>
My favourite WWII rules are Rapid Fire, a British fast-play set.  It's<BR>
quick and dirty, with a fairly shaky resemblance to reality, but it's fun. <BR>
It's a pretty old style of game though.  I've actually looked at mangling<BR>
an SF game out of it, or rather a Modern period variant I have found on the<BR>
net.  But this is a CD scale game:  infantry figures represent about 15<BR>
men, each vehicle model about 5 vehicles.<BR>
<BR>
There's an odd mutation of a set of ICE space combat rules that I've seen<BR>
on the net.  Basically, it's a hex-based Hammers Slammers game.  It looks<BR>
like it could be made workable.<BR>
<BR>
Then of course, there's Ogre Miniatures...  This isn't quite as silly as it<BR>
sounds.  There is also a set of rules in Gurps:Ogre which might be worth<BR>
spending a couple of minutes with.<BR>
<BR>
The short answer is:  I don't know.  Striker's scale doesn't seem to be<BR>
particularly common among historical games.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:06:13 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:13:09 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
>From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
>Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>
><BR>
>For reference, here's the order of precedence of the Imperial Guard <BR>
>regiments from Terry McInnes' TD9 article on the Guard.  Each domain<BR>
>archduke supposedly added a regiment as the domain was organized...<BR>
><BR>
>  Sylean Guard                 only regiment at founding<BR>
<BR>
>  Vland Guard<BR>
>  Gateway Guard<BR>
>  Ilelish Guard<BR>
>  Antares Guard<BR>
<BR>
These would have been added c. 76, at the start of the Pacification<BR>
Campaigns. Note that this is the same order I quoted earlier (Supp 11, p. 6):<BR>
<BR>
"The names of the first six domains were Sylea, Vland, Gateway, Ilelish,<BR>
Antares, and Sol... A seventh domain, Deneb, was created in the first year<BR>
of the First Frontier War."<BR>
<BR>
Although almost certainly derived from the same source and logic, it's<BR>
another vote in that direction.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:42:17 -0400<BR>
From: "Vincent Runci" <vahid@prodigy.net><BR>
Subject: ref:  Books that Survived<BR>
<BR>
Here goes my monthly post to the list.  I wanted to add that it seems likely<BR>
that the works of Immanuel Kant survived in one form or another since, in<BR>
TNE, Dr Ililek Kuligaan insisted that an  Aurora class clipper be named for<BR>
Kant instead of himself.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Vince Runci<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:38:25 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Hmmm, Battlefield Earth eh? Did you know that John Travolta thinks it<BR>
>> has become a "cult hit" and is trying to raise funds for a sequel? Do<BR>
>> you think we should organise a collection to hire a hit man, just to<BR>
>> stop it?<BR>
><BR>
>Of *course* it's a "cult" hit. But I don't dare name the "cult" as<BR>
>that'll bring them down on us.<BR>
><BR>
>But I will say that it starts with "sci" and ends with "ology".<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
Oh Oh, now you've done it Leonard. You've almost used their name in direct<BR>
violation of their iron clad patent, copyright and Trademark restrictions<BR>
that their lawyers will certainly interpret as a TML first strike. No doubt<BR>
we will all now be in litigation for the rest of our natural lives while<BR>
they attempt to squeeze ever last cent out of all of our bank accounts as a<BR>
lesson to any who would dare even speak their name.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:15:01 -0500<BR>
From: Dragoness Eclectic <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> This (and most) of these lists are focussing very narrowly...on <BR>
> latter-day Science Fiction or Fantasy.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
> In terms of sheer volume, at least ONE of Agatha Cristie's books will<BR>
> survive. No James Fenimore Cooper? Washington Irving? <BR>
[snip]<BR>
> Again, in terms of sheer number, Danielle Steel might be remembered as<BR>
> the greatest known 20th century author followed closely by Stephen King.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
Sheer volume, translated into almost every written language on Earth,<BR>
name of main character recognized EVERYWHERE on Earth that people read<BR>
or watch movies:<BR>
<BR>
Edgar Rice Burrough's "Tarzan of the Apes"<BR>
<BR>
I've heard that Tarzan is the best-known fictional character in the<BR>
world. He has become part of world mythology, like Hercules.<BR>
<BR>
Also for sheer volume, Louis L'Amour's westerns. Like ERB's stories,<BR>
they are very well-told stories with enduring appeal, and will probably<BR>
continue to be printed as long as there are people to read them.<BR>
<BR>
			--Cynthia<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"..all I do is tell the Truth to the gods.. and I may sometimes<BR>
use it for a controlling spell because it is so rarely heard."<BR>
                                        --Indrajit, the Ramayana<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/  ****    cyhiggin@pipeline.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 08:59:20 -0500<BR>
From: Dragoness Eclectic <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, you wrote:<BR>
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Paul Drye wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> A. C. Doyle wrote science fiction?  <BR>
<BR>
"Lost World" -- the ancestor and inspiration for "Jurassic Park"<BR>
and several other Professor Challenger stories.<BR>
<BR>
> As far as H. G. Wells and Jules Verne are concerned, I think they are<BR>
> rapidly fading into mere names to be ritually invoked in works of literary<BR>
> scholarship and criticism, rather than *direct* influences on readers and<BR>
> modern authors (they may have created various important themes in science<BR>
> fiction, but few people learned of these themes directly from their<BR>
> works).<BR>
<BR>
Wrong guess, -5 pts. Because they are "out of copyright", their works<BR>
are available on Project Gutenberg, whereas more recent authors are<BR>
not.  Because they are on Project Gutenberg, they are also available in<BR>
Palm Edoc format, and getting read by bored engineers in long<BR>
meetings... Also don't forget school children forced to read<BR>
"literature" at grade-point (aka, "required reading").<BR>
<BR>
 I recently re-read "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" and was shocked at<BR>
how well Verne anticipated modern nuclear submarine design back in the<BR>
1860s. Sure, he got a few things wrong, and part of it dates, but the<BR>
basic plot and the characters don't date, and the submarine Nautilus<BR>
was very well thought out. There's a reason we named our first nuclear<BR>
sub the Nautilus, and it wasn't just a flight of literary fancy.<BR>
<BR>
Wells dates more from his naively optimistic view of socialism as a<BR>
government form that would issue in a Utopian age than for his<BR>
techinical details.  "The Invisible Man" is still a chilling story of<BR>
how power without accountability can corrupt a person; "War of the<BR>
Worlds" is still a great alien invasion story. Note that both stories<BR>
have been remade in various forms in relatively recent years--a sign of<BR>
their enduring importance.<BR>
<BR>
And can anyone explain the enduring popularity of Edgar Rice Burroughs?<BR>
One would think that he would date badly, and fade into obscurity; we<BR>
all know now that none of his lost worlds exist.  Easy explanation--he<BR>
tells a good story, with just the right combination of romance, action,<BR>
suspense, and exotic scenery to really grab the reader. I'd love to<BR>
write that well.<BR>
<BR>
			--Cynthia<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"..all I do is tell the Truth to the gods.. and I may sometimes<BR>
use it for a controlling spell because it is so rarely heard."<BR>
                                        --Indrajit, the Ramayana<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/  ****    cyhiggin@pipeline.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3233<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 28 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3234<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Minaitures Rules<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:46:28 +0100<BR>
From: "Richard Talbot" <abbadon@abbadon.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Minaitures Rules<BR>
<BR>
Although not directly Traveller related Ground Zero Games do a game called<BR>
Dirtside II in 1/300 scale (or called by some 6mm) or Stargrunt II in 25mm.<BR>
I have done a few Traveller related battles using these rules systems.  The<BR>
minitures available are of a high standard and if tweaked a little Imperial<BR>
vs  Zhodani is quite plausible.<BR>
<BR>
Geohex is the distributor for GZG in the States<BR>
<BR>
www.geohex.com<BR>
<BR>
They also do a nice line in 25mm vehicles for Stargrunt which if you have<BR>
the Ground Vehicle Guide for 2300AD I think the designers were heavily<BR>
influenced by that game.<BR>
<BR>
Stargrunt is more skirmish level combat for platoon size forces but has<BR>
armour rules included.<BR>
<BR>
The games uses a dice based combat system with opposing dice rolled to<BR>
determine effects to hits etc... with a diffirent type of die used dependant<BR>
upon range, weapons strength, armour level (ie a PGMP might roll a d12<BR>
against a tanks light armour rating of d4)<BR>
<BR>
I think these systems have been covered before in the TML at length awhile<BR>
ago but I can recommend them.  For a full planetary invasion we used Full<BR>
Thrust Traveller (beta test by Dom Mooney) for the orbital battles, Dirtside<BR>
II for the larger infantry and armour battles and Stargrunt II for the close<BR>
up Urban squad actins.  If I find time I may be able to put up the scenarios<BR>
and rules modifications I used.<BR>
<BR>
But as I still owe BITS several promises for articles dont quote me.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Talbot - Kincardine, Scotland - "Yes the place with the famous<BR>
bridge"<BR>
Personal HomePage: http://www.abbadon.org.uk<BR>
Junk email: abbadon@talk21.com<BR>
Personal email: salesatancienttomes.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
"A Solitary Soul among Millions"<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Traveller-digest" <owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com><BR>
To: <traveller-digest@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 6:38 AM<BR>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3232<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 28 2000     Volume 1999 : Number<BR>
3232<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
> All rights reserved.<BR>
><BR>
> The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
><BR>
> RE: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
> Re: What Sports Survived<BR>
> Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
> Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
> Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
> Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
> Re: On to the far future<BR>
> RE: What Sports Survived?<BR>
> Re: Odd Question<BR>
> Dulinor Went Down... [was: What Music Survived?]<BR>
> RE: What Music Survived?<BR>
> Miniatures Rules<BR>
> RE: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
> Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
> RE: Books that survived...<BR>
> Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
> Re: Books that survived...<BR>
> Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
> Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
> RE: What Music Survived?<BR>
> Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
><BR>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:53:01 +1300<BR>
> From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
> Subject: RE: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of James Jensen<BR>
> > Sent: Saturday, 28 October 2000 06:54<BR>
> > To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> > Subject: Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > The problem with predicting Sci-Fi in the 57th century is that current<BR>
> > sci-fi is based upon current technology.<BR>
><BR>
> I'd just lke to make a comment about this discussion in general, sorry for<BR>
> picking you out for it James, but your line here sums up the problem I<BR>
have<BR>
> with the discussion nicely.<BR>
><BR>
> The point is that science fiction in general is _not_ about technology.<BR>
><BR>
> Someone once said that "SF" doesn't really stand for science fiction but<BR>
for<BR>
> _social_ fiction, and the best works of SF bear this out.<BR>
><BR>
> Stories such as "Gulliver's Travels" or "Inferno" (both of which I put<BR>
> firmly in the "SF" genre, along with such works as "Utopia") but<BR>
addressing<BR>
> relevant political and social points of the 3I will be what contitutes<BR>
good<BR>
> SF in the 3I.<BR>
><BR>
> Books like Theodore Sturgeon's "More than Human" would be interesting to<BR>
> resurrect in the 3I<BR>
> dealing as it does with a group of psionics trying to survive.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, anything to do with psionics would be "racy" and might even be<BR>
> banned, so we would have things like Julian May's Galactic Milieu series<BR>
> being very SF to 3I audiences. Postulating an "Empire" ruled by benevolent<BR>
> psionics of much greater power than most Zhodani, who are considered the<BR>
> good guys, that's pretty far out to a member og the 3I<BR>
><BR>
> And even with the technological angle, Traveller technology while in some<BR>
> ways magical to our eyes, is not ultra-tech in most areas. Stories such as<BR>
> the Lensman and Skylark series, suitably updated would still have a "gee<BR>
> whiz" factor in the 3I, as would some of Piers Anthony's works.<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> To predict the future of sf is<BR>
> > trying to look too many steps ahead. Obviously, sf in the 3I will<BR>
> > be based<BR>
> > on TL15 tech. Since we do not live in a TL15 society (I don't anyway),<BR>
we<BR>
> > cannot possibly foresee sf in the 3I!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -J. Jensen<BR>
> > ========================================<BR>
> > "It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite<BR>
> > reaction.'"<BR>
> > -Rev Bem<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at<BR>
http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>
> > http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:11:01 -0400<BR>
> From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: What Sports Survived<BR>
><BR>
> >Captain Sisko aside, will anyone play baseball anymore? Will they get in<BR>
a<BR>
> >lather about the Intrasystem Series? Most importantly, will the bloody<BR>
damn<BR>
> >Greater New York Yankees *still* win the World Series every three years?<BR>
><BR>
> "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com><BR>
><BR>
> >>The Japanese take baseball -- and their peculiar ritualistic take on the<BR>
> sport -- with them to the Zodia colonies. The Aslan pick it up from<BR>
> them....<<<BR>
><BR>
> Great. So not only do the Mets still have to worry about the Yankees, but<BR>
> now I've got to contend with the Yomiuri Giants. And let's not even<BR>
*think*<BR>
> about what the Yerlyaruiwo Catsclaws can do...<BR>
><BR>
> Fred Ramen<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:25:51 -0500<BR>
> From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
> Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
><BR>
> On 10/26/00 at 10:20 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >> This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me.  The Solomani<BR>
> >> offensive should have run out of steam at or about Capital.  I am<BR>
> >> reminded of a quote from the time of the Wars of Religion in<BR>
> >> France "They would take the Grand Turk as King, as long as he<BR>
> >> would bring peace".<BR>
><BR>
> >It's one of the things that's always bugged me, too.  I can't see<BR>
> >how the Solomani couldn't have taken Daibei, the Solomani Rim (all<BR>
> >of it) and all of Diaspora, as well as what canon says they got<BR>
> >before their initial advance stalled.  Later on they could only do<BR>
> >better, as of all the involved factions they had by far the biggest<BR>
> >safe, and it was _all_ out of raiding/black war strike range of<BR>
> >everyone else.  What's more their internal strife started too late<BR>
> >to really affect them until right before it all came crashing down<BR>
> >(in canon).<BR>
><BR>
> I'm not canonical...as everyone knows...but I'm running a "Hard<BR>
> Times" PBEM set in Reaver's Deep where I'm trying to stay close to<BR>
> the OTU timeline through the mid 1120's.  With the Domain of Daibei,<BR>
> the Solomani, and the Aslan bordering the deep I've had to do some<BR>
> serious thinking about what happens *after* that date.<BR>
><BR>
> I've concluded that unless something (or someone) stops them the<BR>
> Solomani should dominate the entire area by the end of the 1120's.<BR>
> Seeing as I don't want that to happen, something (or someone) *will*<BR>
> stop them...IMTU.<BR>
><BR>
> Not to give anything away, but I'm thinking the Solomani are about<BR>
> to get whipsawed by both internal and external attacks.  Internally,<BR>
> the time is ripe for the billions and billions of "impure", and<BR>
> opressed, races in Solomani territory to rise against the men of<BR>
> Sol. Externally, the Aslan decide to unleash their landless on the<BR>
> Solomani, with whom they *don't* have a treaty.  Between the two<BR>
> threats the Solomani find they have over extended themselves just<BR>
> recovering part of their former terriory.  By the later 1120's they<BR>
> have retrenched and are trying to pacify their own rear areas and<BR>
> defend their own borders from incursions by Aslan fleets.<BR>
><BR>
> From the late 1120's onward the area rimward of Reaver's Deep and<BR>
> Daibei turns into a buffer of independent, Aslan dominated (or<BR>
> influenced) worlds that spreads trailing and coreward as time goes<BR>
> on.  This area creates a wild and wooly buffer between the Solomani,<BR>
> the splintered Deep and the fractured states of the former Imperium.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Eris<BR>
><BR>
> - --<BR>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:29:19 EDT<BR>
> From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
><BR>
> >Cole Porter oughta continue on, though many of his songs might now be<BR>
> >attributed as "Traditional Solomani"<BR>
><BR>
>  "What IS that?"<BR>
>  "Sounds like Cole Porter, sir!"<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> GC<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:43:28 -0500<BR>
> From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
> Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
><BR>
> On 10/26/00 at 06:45 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >Agreed - a functioning TL14/15 society, with the biggest industrial<BR>
> > base in Known Space should have just agreed a peace treaty with<BR>
> >the  Vegans, and carried on into the core.<BR>
><BR>
> Should'a. <g> Doesn't mean they would.<BR>
><BR>
> >I seem to remember that the DGP material suggested political<BR>
> >infighting causing the ceasation of the Solomani offensive.<BR>
><BR>
> I inferred that the hardliners won the Solomani version of "The<BR>
> Night of the Long Knives" from what I read in Hard Times.  I seem to<BR>
> remember there being some hanky-panky with the Vagan reproductive<BR>
> system that the Solomani might have been behind.  If that came to<BR>
> light a full blown revolt might have started behind Solomani lines.<BR>
><BR>
> Eris<BR>
><BR>
> - --<BR>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:31:21 -0500<BR>
> From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
><BR>
> At 08:26 PM 10/27/00 CDT, two guys wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >>Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>
> >>step:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>
> >>Another rock song that we would never expect to continue ("Hotel<BR>
> >>California," with the words changed? I dunno...)<BR>
><BR>
> >And, last but not least:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"The Devil Went Down to Georgia" (sung later as "Dulinor Went Down to<BR>
Sylea"<BR>
> >most likely)<BR>
><BR>
> "Welcome to the Hotel Ilelish ... "<BR>
><BR>
> Les<BR>
><BR>
> ====================================<BR>
> Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
> ====================================<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:50:17 -0500<BR>
> From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
> Subject: Re: On to the far future<BR>
><BR>
> On 10/26/00 at 09:55 PM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >The Solomani had their doves as well as their hawks, and each group<BR>
> >contained many different sub-groups. My take is that once the<BR>
> >Solomani had recaptured the territory of the original Solomani<BR>
> >Autonomous Region, many semi-hawks were satisfied. The more extreme<BR>
> >hawks simply didn't have enough political support to pursue the<BR>
> >fight beyond that.<BR>
><BR>
> IMO, with the Solomani, it wasn't hawks vs doves that did them in. It was<BR>
the hardline Solomani purity freaks that did them in.<BR>
><BR>
> Eris<BR>
><BR>
> - --<BR>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:12:38 +1300<BR>
> From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
> Subject: RE: What Sports Survived?<BR>
><BR>
> Cricket, of course.<BR>
><BR>
> The Vilani still don't understand how the Solomani managed to invent the<BR>
> perfect Vilani bat & ball game.<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:13:09 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
> From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
> Subject: Re: Odd Question<BR>
><BR>
> For reference, here's the order of precedence of the Imperial Guard<BR>
> regiments from Terry McInnes' TD9 article on the Guard.  Each domain<BR>
> archduke supposedly added a regiment as the domain was organized.<BR>
> Your milage may vary; also note that some of the regiments have been<BR>
> disbanded and reestablished over the years so it doesn't have to be<BR>
> strictly correct.<BR>
><BR>
>   Sylean Guard                 only regiment at founding<BR>
>   Vland Guard<BR>
>   Gateway Guard<BR>
>   Ilelish Guard<BR>
>   Antares Guard<BR>
>   (Imperial Artillery)         added 250<BR>
>   (Household Cavalry)          added 250<BR>
>   (Spinward Marches Guard)     added 550<BR>
>   (Marine Guard)               added 629<BR>
>   (Aslan Guard)*<BR>
>   Solomani Guard**             reest. 1050<BR>
><BR>
>  * The Aslan Guard was founded in 350, so why are they so junior?  The<BR>
>    text says they were nearly destroyed by Olav I while giving<BR>
Jacqueline's<BR>
>    Marine Escort Force time to set up the inner defence.  My guess is that<BR>
>    Olav disbanded them in 606, and Arbellatra reestablished them in 629,<BR>
>    just after she created the Marine Guard (a separate, larger unit than<BR>
>    the four-company MEF).<BR>
> ** According to the text, the Solomani unit was disbanded in 990 and was<BR>
>    reestablished in 1050, which is why it's junior now.<BR>
><BR>
>   -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:22:05 -0400<BR>
> From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
> Subject: Dulinor Went Down... [was: What Music Survived?]<BR>
><BR>
> >"The Devil Went Down to Georgia" (sung later as "Dulinor Went Down to<BR>
Sylea"<BR>
> >most likely)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >- -J. Jensen<BR>
><BR>
> You asked for it:<BR>
><BR>
> ***<BR>
><BR>
> Dulinor Went Down To Sylea<BR>
> (Filk'd from 'Devil Went Down To Georgia'<BR>
>       by the Charlie Daniels Band)<BR>
><BR>
> <CUE fiddle intro....><BR>
><BR>
> Dulior went down to Sylea<BR>
> He was lookin' for a Throne to steal<BR>
> He was in a bind, his reforms were behind<BR>
> And he wasn't gonna make a deal.<BR>
><BR>
> Time passed by, he came upon Lucan,<BR>
> Runnin' the 3I and playing it hot<BR>
> So he jumped up on a Research Station and said,<BR>
> "Boy, lemmie tell you what.<BR>
><BR>
> "I guess you didn't notice, but I say I'm the Emperor, too<BR>
> And if you care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.<BR>
> Now, you rule the Empire pretty good,<BR>
> But give Dulior his due.<BR>
> I'll bet an Illelish fleet, against your Core<BR>
> To prove I'm better than you."<BR>
><BR>
> The boy said, "My name's Lucan, and I don't care if it's a sin,<BR>
> An' I'll take your bet, you're gonna regret,<BR>
> 'Cause I'm the best there ever is!"<BR>
><BR>
> Lucan, summon all your staff<BR>
> And work your navy hard<BR>
> 'Cause Dulior's loose in Illelish<BR>
> And his brother deals the cards.<BR>
> And if you win you get this Empire of thirty-thousand worlds<BR>
> But if you loose, you know that you'll be hosed!<BR>
><BR>
> Dulior launched his fleets and said<BR>
> "I'll start this show!"<BR>
> 'Cause fire'd flown from his body pistol<BR>
> As he struck the fatal blow.<BR>
> He'd fired it thrice, and all the bullets<BR>
> Did make an evil hiss.<BR>
> And Illelish Guardsmen then jumped in<BR>
> And it sounded something like this...<BR>
><BR>
> <fiddle interlude, interspiced with sounds of PGMP fire and gunned escorts<BR>
> flying overhead><BR>
><BR>
> When Dulior started, Lucan said,<BR>
> "Well, you're pretty good, old son!<BR>
> But sit in that sector right there,<BR>
> And lemmie show you how it's done!"<BR>
><BR>
> Fire on Cymbelline, seeds of Virus sow!<BR>
> Dulior's got his back against the Claw!<BR>
> Brzk in Antares, Strephon makes a show!<BR>
> Black War looming, nowhere to go!<BR>
><BR>
> Dulior released the Virus<BR>
> And Coronation fleet crashed<BR>
> And the devil of Illelish,<BR>
> Black Dulior by a combine he was thrashed.<BR>
> And as the 3I crumbled 'round him,<BR>
> Lucan said, "Come back, I'll nuke you again!<BR>
> I done told you once, you damn pretender,<BR>
> I'm the only Emperor there is!"<BR>
><BR>
> Fire on Cymbelline, seeds of Virus sow!<BR>
> Dulior's got his back against the Claw!<BR>
> Brzk in Antares, Strephon makes a show!<BR>
> Black War looming, nowhere to go!<BR>
><BR>
> <fiddle postlude><BR>
><BR>
> ***<BR>
><BR>
> Reading this back, it's a bit slipshod, and a hell of a lot darker than<BR>
the<BR>
> original Charlie Daniels classic.  I should have probably let this one<BR>
stay<BR>
> in the closet, the Black War is a pretty grim time, and is probably better<BR>
> filked by, well, the likes of 'Life in Wartime.' =/ Still, 'Dulior Came<BR>
> Down To Sylea' is what we started with, so....<BR>
><BR>
> Anyway, presented for your perusal.  Comments welcome.  It's too damn<BR>
> depressing....<BR>
> - ---<BR>
> ==============================================================<BR>
> Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE       NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com<BR>
> System Administrator         http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com<BR>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>        Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK<BR>
> IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@<BR>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> Current PGPKey Fingerprint (18 July 2000)<BR>
>        E20D 4E41 533E AAD0 60B8  66DD 2908 F6E4 923F C225<BR>
> Public Key: http://www.waypointcentral.net/Team/Jonathan/Keys/<BR>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>            "As above, so below; as below, so above."<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:29:15 +1300<BR>
> From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
> Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR>
><BR>
> "Jerusalem"<BR>
> "Oh Tannenbaum/The Red Flag"<BR>
> "Stairway to Heaven"<BR>
> "Louie Louie"<BR>
> "New York"<BR>
> "Auld Lang Syne"<BR>
> "Stand By Me"<BR>
> "Alices Restaurant"<BR>
> "Unchained Melody"<BR>
><BR>
> But all the words will have been changed by then, though in at least one<BR>
> case it won't matter.<BR>
><BR>
> Random excreta from my tired brain :<BR>
><BR>
> "Stand by Me" the Battle Song of the Sylean Third Marine Guards regiment,<BR>
> explained to the modern audience :<BR>
><BR>
> When the Night is Long ( the Long Night, you understand )<BR>
> And the land is dark   ( the power plant has died, y'know )<BR>
> And the moon           ( that's no moon, that's a Tigress !!)<BR>
> is the only<BR>
> light to see           (image intensifier's on full)<BR>
><BR>
> I won't be afraid      (then why is your visor misting up ?)<BR>
> No, I won't be afraid  (Say it again and we might start believing it)<BR>
> Just as long<BR>
> as you stand,<BR>
> Stand by Me            (addressed to a marine in full battledrress<BR>
carrying<BR>
> a PGMP<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> There's a lady who's sure<BR>
> all the coynes are of gold<BR>
> And she's buying a passage to Fulacin...<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:35:26 -0700<BR>
> From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
> Subject: Miniatures Rules<BR>
><BR>
> For Traveller miniatures rules we have Striker and Striker II. I have<BR>
played<BR>
> a bit of Striker as well as many games using Tractics. All of these rules<BR>
> are a bit on the old side. What is the state-of-the-art for skirmish-level<BR>
> armor games these days?<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:41:35 -0700<BR>
> From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
> Subject: RE: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>
><BR>
> Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > The point is that science fiction in general is _not_ about technology.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Someone once said that "SF" doesn't really stand for science<BR>
> > fiction but for<BR>
> > _social_ fiction, and the best works of SF bear this out.<BR>
><BR>
> I am far from an expert on the subject, since I don't actually read<BR>
science<BR>
> fiction these days (and haven't for well over ten years), but I understand<BR>
> that there are subclasses of SF, one of which is called something like<BR>
"hard<BR>
> science fiction," in which the author thinks of a clever application of<BR>
> advanced or speculative technology and basically uses his story to show<BR>
this<BR>
> technology in operation. Even in the advanced TLs of the Traveller<BR>
universe<BR>
> we are likely to have speculation on future technologies, and the<BR>
supporting<BR>
> works of fiction to showcase the speculation. The big difference is that<BR>
the<BR>
> subject of the speculation will change quite a bit over the next thousand<BR>
> years or so. Even in an age in which matter transport is actually possible<BR>
> (TL 16, which represents a significant fraction of the population of the<BR>
> 3I), you will still have speculation about what comes next, and that will<BR>
> probably be represented in the SF of the Traveller universe.<BR>
><BR>
> Sure, "social fiction" will exist, but that's not the really fun stuff.<BR>
> IMNSHO.<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:00:04 -0500<BR>
> From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: On to the Far Future (Long)<BR>
><BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > On 10/26/00 at 10:20 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
said:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >> This is what jarred most about Hard Times for me.  The Solomani<BR>
> > >> offensive should have run out of steam at or about Capital.  I am<BR>
> > >> reminded of a quote from the time of the Wars of Religion in<BR>
> > >> France "They would take the Grand Turk as King, as long as he<BR>
> > >> would bring peace".<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >It's one of the things that's always bugged me, too.  I can't see<BR>
> > >how the Solomani couldn't have taken Daibei, the Solomani Rim (all<BR>
> > >of it) and all of Diaspora, as well as what canon says they got<BR>
> > >before their initial advance stalled.  Later on they could only do<BR>
> > >better, as of all the involved factions they had by far the biggest<BR>
> > >safe, and it was _all_ out of raiding/black war strike range of<BR>
> > >everyone else.  What's more their internal strife started too late<BR>
> > >to really affect them until right before it all came crashing down<BR>
> > >(in canon).<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'm not canonical...as everyone knows...but I'm running a "Hard<BR>
> > Times" PBEM set in Reaver's Deep where I'm trying to stay close to<BR>
> > the OTU timeline through the mid 1120's.  With the Domain of Daibei,<BR>
> > the Solomani, and the Aslan bordering the deep I've had to do some<BR>
> > serious thinking about what happens *after* that date.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I've concluded that unless something (or someone) stops them the<BR>
> > Solomani should dominate the entire area by the end of the 1120's.<BR>
> > Seeing as I don't want that to happen, something (or someone) *will*<BR>
> > stop them...IMTU.<BR>
> ><BR>
> <<snips description of Solomani overextension>><BR>
><BR>
> Alternately, assuming that the Solomani military leaders have read the<BR>
> ancient Terran text _On War_ (by Karl von Clausewitz), the Solomani<BR>
> military leaders could have recognized that they were near the<BR>
> culmination point of their offensive.  At this point, realizing the<BR>
> folly of overextension, they may well have halted their offensive<BR>
> operations for a few decades, to allow the Solomani Confederation to<BR>
> consolidate its gains and prepare for the next major offensive.  Note<BR>
> that this matches the pattern seen during the Interstellar Wars between<BR>
> the Terran Confederation and the Ziru Sirka.<BR>
><BR>
> This interpretation both explains the lack of Solomani expansion beyond<BR>
> the gains achieved by 1120 and provides a rationale for a powerful,<BR>
> growing, yet insular Solomani military within the current borders of the<BR>
> Solomani Confederation.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> - --<BR>
><BR>
> "A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
> least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
> your unit."<BR>
><BR>
>      -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
> magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:30:49 -0500<BR>
> From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
> Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR>
><BR>
> At 12:12 AM 10/27/00, you wrote:<BR>
> >Dom wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >So, following on from a top ten films, has anyone got a top ten books<BR>
> > >they'd like to survive until the Third Imperium?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Since I'm sure that lots of other folks will put the focus on sci-fi, I'm<BR>
> >going to go light on the genre stuff. I'm also going to leave out sacred<BR>
> >texts, such as the Bible, the Koran and on, simply because these books<BR>
would<BR>
> >take up way too many slots. Same thing with the works of Shakespeare,<BR>
Edgar<BR>
> >Allan Poe, Homer and so on.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Tentatively, I propose the following:<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Plato, "The Republic" - In a "good" Imperium, it's almost certain to be<BR>
> >required reading for the nobility.<BR>
><BR>
> Agreed<BR>
><BR>
> >Lewis Mumford, "Technics and Civilization" - The seminal work on the<BR>
effects<BR>
> >of technological development on the way people think.<BR>
><BR>
> Haven't read that one. How about James Burke's "The Day the Universe<BR>
Changed"<BR>
><BR>
> >Paul Kennedy, "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change &<BR>
> >Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000" - Historically, it just doesn't get<BR>
> >much better than this. Some claim that Kennedy missed the mark, mainly<BR>
due<BR>
> >to his extrapolations about the Cold War, but he wasn't off as wildly as<BR>
> >some claim. The underlying theories are quite sound.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Richard Wilson<BR>
><BR>
> rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
><BR>
> ========================================================================<BR>
> Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
> strive to overcome.<BR>
> ========================================================================<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:03:08 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
> From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
> Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR>
><BR>
> Fred Ramen asked:<BR>
><BR>
> > Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>
> > step:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > For my money:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Mozart survives, or I'm taking my dice and going home. Ditto for Bach<BR>
and<BR>
> > Beethoven.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Some gloomy Solomani in the Rim still listen to Mahler.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > At least one Verdi opera. The "real" Ring--Wagner's--has to have its<BR>
> > listeners, especially among the Solomani Party elite ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> Heck, at least some of Dietrich Buxtehude's ciaconas and fugues survive,<BR>
> according to the Knightfall adventure.  (When he was about twenty, J. S.<BR>
> Bach walked over two hundred miles to listen to Buxtehude play, and ended<BR>
> up overstaying his trip.)  They might be performed on some fairly strange<BR>
> instruments, though.  :)<BR>
><BR>
>   -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:07:20 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR>
><BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > I would say that the Aslan would ensure that Barbara Hambleys Chanur<BR>
series<BR>
> > survived.<BR>
><BR>
> Was the above error intentional?<BR>
><BR>
> C.J. Cherryh wrote the Chanur books...<BR>
><BR>
> - --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:48:04 -0400<BR>
> From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
><BR>
> - ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
> > For Traveller miniatures rules we have Striker and Striker II. I have<BR>
> played<BR>
> > a bit of Striker as well as many games using Tractics. All of these<BR>
rules<BR>
> > are a bit on the old side. What is the state-of-the-art for<BR>
skirmish-level<BR>
> > armor games these days?<BR>
><BR>
> um... geez, I haven't even worked up the Striker II yet :-/<BR>
><BR>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
> Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
> www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:27:44 -0500<BR>
> From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: Miniatures Rules<BR>
><BR>
> Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > For Traveller miniatures rules we have Striker and Striker II. I have<BR>
played<BR>
> > a bit of Striker as well as many games using Tractics. All of these<BR>
rules<BR>
> > are a bit on the old side. What is the state-of-the-art for<BR>
skirmish-level<BR>
> > armor games these days?<BR>
><BR>
> David Pulver wrote a three part series for JTAS (Arm of Descision) earlier<BR>
this<BR>
> year. A version of these rules may have found their way into GT: Ground<BR>
Forces<BR>
> (a simplified grav vehicle contruction system did). I'm not sure since I<BR>
spent<BR>
> most of my tiem in the playtest on the "how an an invasion force survive<BR>
> planetary defenses?" and "why should there be aircraft at TL12?".<BR>
><BR>
> A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
> Brandon Cope<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:32:07 +0800<BR>
> From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
> Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR>
><BR>
> Don't forget Gilbert & Sullivan, anyone remember the virus infected ship<BR>
> crewed by G & S droids! Yes it was named HMS Pinafore. So this at least<BR>
> survived into the new era.<BR>
><BR>
> Antony<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:40:40 -0500<BR>
> From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>
><BR>
> > >I'm just getting back into Trav after a 2 year hiatus.  I own most of<BR>
MT<BR>
> > >(except Hard Times :(, bits of CT and Gurps Traveller and Behind the<BR>
Claw.<BR>
> > >I'm interested in perhaps starting a Gurps Trav campaign (the<BR>
background<BR>
> > >appeals).<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Given I don't have infinite resources for buying Trav books, which<BR>
Gurps<BR>
> > >books would I need in order of preference?  Obviously Basic.  Is Gurps<BR>
> > >Space<BR>
> > >necessary/useful? or the Compendiums? or would other books in the Gurps<BR>
> > >Trav<BR>
> > >line (Alien races and so on) be better?<BR>
><BR>
> Compendium I is useful if you plan to make much use of alien races. Basic<BR>
Set<BR>
> has enough on psi powers that you don't need Psionics. Space is nice, but<BR>
First<BR>
> In would be a better buy (and I don't think really requires it -- Jon, can<BR>
you<BR>
> clarify this?). The Alien races are nice, but only if you plan to do major<BR>
> things with some alien races (Alien Races 1 is most relevant to the<BR>
Spinward<BR>
> Marches).<BR>
><BR>
> A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
> Brandon Cope<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
> End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3232<BR>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3235</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, October 29 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3235<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Apologies to the TML<BR>Formative Documents for the 3I (2I &amp; TC, etc...)<BR>Re: Formative Documents for the 3I (2I &amp; TC, etc...)<BR>News and Editorial on Downport.com<BR>RE: While were Filking<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: What Sports Survived?<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>TC Harrison<BR>Re: Music<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Re: What Sports Survived<BR>RE: While were Filking<BR>Re: TNE boxed set<BR>Re: What Sports Survived<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Re: What Sports Survived<BR>Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:01:45 +0100<BR>From: "Richard Talbot" &lt;abbadon@abbadon.fsnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Apologies to the TML<BR><BR>ok<BR><BR>I'm sorry<BR><BR>I forgot to delete the reply screed when I posted the last message.<BR><BR>Looks like its the firing squad for me.&nbsp; Better stay indoors from now on.<BR><BR>Richard Talbot - Kincardine, Scotland - "Yes the place with the famous<BR>bridge"<BR>Personal HomePage: http://www.abbadon.org.uk<BR>Junk email: abbadon@talk21.com<BR>Personal email: salesatancienttomes.co.uk<BR><BR>"A Solitary Soul among Millions"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:58:31 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Formative Documents for the 3I (2I &amp; TC, etc...)<BR><BR>Strephon seemed to be very fond of Lincoln (as did Norris).&nbsp; Thus, it<BR>appears to me that the 3I's highest levels of leadership appreciated some<BR>aspects of the American civil War.&nbsp; Strephon was deeply concerned about his<BR>people, in a way that makes me wonder if some of the humanist values of our<BR>late 2nd millenium democracies might have carried forward into the<BR>successive governments.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:26:13 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Formative Documents for the 3I (2I &amp; TC, etc...)<BR><BR>Oh dear, does this mean that Richard Adams' book telling the horses view of<BR>the war will have survived? Let's see now, what was the name of that book?<BR>Dang, it's right on the tip of my tongue...<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Strephon seemed to be very fond of Lincoln (as did Norris).&nbsp; Thus, it<BR>&gt; appears to me that the 3I's highest levels of leadership appreciated some<BR>&gt; aspects of the American civil War.&nbsp; Strephon was deeply concerned about<BR>his<BR>&gt; people, in a way that makes me wonder if some of the humanist values of<BR>our<BR>&gt; late 2nd millenium democracies might have carried forward into the<BR>&gt; successive governments.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:26:42 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: News and Editorial on Downport.com<BR><BR>I have placed a news item ( www.downport.com/news ) to announce the third<BR>book in the Traveller Collectors' Reprint series, _The Adventures_ . At the<BR>same time I have published a new editorial (yes it has been awhile), this<BR>time by Chad Russell of Project Blackheart fame. His article is extremely<BR>long for an editorial and is a complete rethinking of the x-boat system.<BR>When I first saw a rough this summer I suggested he submit it to JTAS, but,<BR>for whatever reason, he prefers the open access forum of our "Point of View"<BR>section. You can read the article by clicking on the associated link from<BR>the news page above, or dive in directly with www.downport.com/point<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;&gt;&lt;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:55:20 -0500<BR>From: "Shadowcat" &lt;res053z0@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: While were Filking<BR><BR>while talking on IRC about such 70's things as CB Radio and <BR>Trucking Music last night, a warped idea came to mind.<BR><BR>for the rebellion folks/vampire fleets folks out there<BR>what about a filk of Convoy? by CW McCall<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:03:04 EDT<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/28/00 1:39:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, copeab@elc.net <BR>writes:<BR>&gt; Space is nice, but First<BR>&gt;&nbsp; In would be a better buy<BR><BR>Thanks :-).<BR><BR>&gt;(and I don't think really requires it -- Jon, can&nbsp; you<BR>&gt;&nbsp; clarify this?).<BR><BR>If you have unlimited money, you probably want both, but in a pinch I<BR>think the world-design sequence in First In will stand without Space.<BR>At most there are a few terms that were defined in Space that aren't<BR>redefined in First In for brevity -- but most of those are fairly obvious.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:01:32 -0400<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>I noted:<BR><BR>&gt; Some gloomy Solomani in the Rim still listen to Mahler.<BR><BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt; replied:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I don't find his stuff gloomy at all. Quite dramatic and uplifting, in<BR>fact.&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>Me too. In fact, I put on his "Resurrection" Symphony after I sent the post.<BR>I was working on a book about Albert Speer, and I liked the irony of<BR>listening to Mahler while writing about a Nazi.<BR><BR>&gt; At least one Verdi opera. The "real" Ring--Wagner's--has to have its<BR>&gt; listeners, especially among the Solomani Party elite ;-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Now Wagner's I do find gloomy.&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>Yeah, but what an accomplishment!<BR><BR>Actually, I think it would be much more fun to make the works that survive<BR>be the ones that are obscure in our own day. For example, Mozart's opera<BR>seria (like "Ideomeneo") are probably more interesting to the Imperial<BR>aristocracy than, say, "Marriage of Figaro" with its subtle themes of class<BR>conflict. Maybe the Brandenburg Concertos of Bach are neglected, while his<BR>oboe concertos (once transcribed for the Vilani heebiephone) are considered<BR>masterpieces. Maybe "Staying Alive" is regarded as the greatest piece of<BR>20th Century music...<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:05:17 -0400<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>CatWhoLeaps &lt;catwholeaps@mac.com&gt; mentioned:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;P.S. Anyone hiding out on Long Island that plays Trav?<BR><BR>I'm in Manhattan, but grew up in lovely Huntington Station, Long Island. And<BR>always interested in Trav runs.<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:18:30 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: William Molendyk &lt;wmolendyk@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>Actually, I think the question isn't which books survived the Long Night but<BR>which ones didn't.&nbsp; With things like the Gutenberg Project I see a time when<BR>all published works may be preserved in an electronic form.&nbsp; With todays<BR>technology huge amounts of text can be stored on a CD (let alone DVD).&nbsp; In<BR>terms of entertainment value/volume the written word certainly ranks far above<BR>all others.&nbsp; Who knows what storage mediums the future has in store.&nbsp; If you<BR>can store all of mankinds written works into something the size of a large<BR>suitcase, or even a refridgerator, wouldn't you see that every colony and<BR>outpost has one?<BR><BR>The way I see it, when ROM expanded throughout the Imperium I'm sure they took<BR>(vast) electronic libraries with them, if for no other reason to expose the<BR>conquered Vilani Imperium to Earth culture.&nbsp; You can also be sure that the AAB<BR>requested these records for storage and study.&nbsp; This is something I think ROM<BR>would have been happy to see happen.<BR><BR>That's my Cr0.02<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; William Molendyk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:32:49 -0500<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Sports Survived?<BR><BR>At 01:36 AM 10/28/00, you wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;VonRammen wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Which sports followed the Solomani exodus into the Ziru Sirka?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Golf, of course.&nbsp; It was the first interplanetary game in<BR>&gt;Solomani space.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Every world has its own unique hazards and gravity.<BR>&gt;Course design is an art form.&nbsp; I think if you keep the rules<BR>&gt;close to the same, especially WRT the equipment, i.e.,<BR>&gt;you've got to keep using the same clubs (with only minor<BR>&gt;technological improvements), the game can keep the same<BR>&gt;feel.&nbsp; That Par 5 on a small planet is 4 km.&nbsp; Instead of<BR>&gt;a sand trap, there might be an open pool of lava.&nbsp; For low<BR>&gt;atmosphere courses, players can wear vacc suits and other<BR>&gt;support equipment.&nbsp; Eneri Woods has his own brand of<BR>&gt;tailored vacc suits, designed so that they don't effect your<BR>&gt;swing.&nbsp; There is an exoskeleton attachment for high-g<BR>&gt;courses, but it hasn't achieved wide acceptance amongst<BR>&gt;purists.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Football, Baseball, etc., these require atmospheres and<BR>&gt;reasonable proximity to gravity.&nbsp; So where you have those,<BR>&gt;fine.&nbsp; Since we already have domed baseball, all you<BR>&gt;need is a well-monitored and secure artificial grav system<BR>&gt;under a field that maintains one gravity.&nbsp; While differences<BR>&gt;in air pressure and climate are tolerated (just like they are<BR>&gt;today), gravity must be the same.&nbsp; The 1032 Aramis Black<BR>&gt;Sox created the worst scandal in 300 years when they<BR>&gt;tweaked the AG system to help their hitting.&nbsp; It would have<BR>&gt;been undetected if a glitch hadn't enabled an opposing<BR>&gt;fielder to leap 50 feet when attempting a catch.<BR><BR>That still won't help with teams from high gravity planets. Even if the <BR>playing field is kept at one gee, the players will still have grown up in a <BR>higher gravity environment, and they go home to it at night.<BR><BR>This is making the assumption, of course, that if you grow up on a planet <BR>with a gravity of say 1.1 standard gravities, you will be stronger and <BR>faster than someone who grew up on Earth.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Richard Wilson<BR><BR>rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR><BR>========================================================================<BR>Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>strive to overcome.<BR>========================================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:46:21 -0500<BR>From: D Smart &lt;dsmart@imagin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Terry Carlino posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Oh Oh, now you've done it Leonard. You've almost used their name in direct<BR>&gt; violation of their iron clad patent, copyright and Trademark restrictions<BR>&gt; that their lawyers will certainly interpret as a TML first strike. No doubt<BR>&gt; we will all now be in litigation for the rest of our natural lives while<BR>&gt; they attempt to squeeze ever last cent out of all of our bank accounts as a<BR>&gt; lesson to any who would dare even speak their name.<BR><BR>Oh come on, Terry. It's not like he said "Hastur".<BR><BR>Oh sh..NO NO NO!&nbsp;&nbsp; AAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH!<BR><BR><BR>&lt;chompchompswallowbelch&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:07:13 -0700<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Fred Ramen asked:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Well, while we're playing this game, let's continue to the next logical<BR>step:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; What music/composers/artists are still recognized in the 57th Century?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; For my money:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Mozart survives, or I'm taking my dice and going home. Ditto for Bach and<BR>Beethoven.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Personally I don't like European classical music, but then many people don't<BR>like rock either.&nbsp; What amuses the hell out of me with regard to this thread<BR>(and the other related threads) is how damn Euro-Americentric it is!!!<BR><BR>If Ozaki Yutaka hasn't survived, then the heart of rock and roll is truly<BR>dead.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Southern All Stars haven't survived, someone's sense of humor<BR>is impaired.&nbsp; And I'd hate to think that the only traditional and classical<BR>music that survived is European, for that matter!<BR><BR>I'm sure that popular AND classical music selections of similar cultural<BR>importance exist in every culture and that what survives to the 57th century<BR>from the 20th, 21st and earlier centuries will NOT just be the<BR>English-language stuff.&nbsp; Frankly, while the anime is not all that hot, and<BR>the English translation sucks big infected ones, I'll be really shocked if<BR>the original Japanese language version of the graphic novel Bishoujo Senshi<BR>Sailor Moon doesn't make it-- 18 volumes because 18 is the Kabbalistic<BR>number and Tarot number of the Moon, a beautiful and elegant<BR>Shinto-Wicca-Pagan fairy tale weaving European and Asian moon goddess<BR>traditions and astrological lore together seamlessly, easily the equal of<BR>anything Tolkien ever put out, and hopelessly bowdlerized in English in<BR>order to make it palatable to the Religious Right.<BR><BR>I mean, I understand that English is the only language we all have in common<BR>on this list, but come on!&nbsp; Just because you don't know about it and<BR>couldn't read/understand it if you did, doesn't mean no one else would keep<BR>it alive...<BR><BR>Kiri, amused.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:12:24 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: TC Harrison<BR><BR>Greetings:<BR><BR>The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison is back as a weekly newsletter at eGroups. <BR>To subscribe, send a blank message to:<BR><BR>TCHarrison-subscribe@egroups.com<BR><BR>(I haven't posted an installment yet. Next week.)<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 23:16:09 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Music<BR><BR>For those who care, my tastes in music are summarized on my website.<BR><BR>go to http://www.io.com/~lkw/ and click on the music button.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>and, to whoever ordered the Barrington Atlas through my amazon.com link, <BR>THANKS! I get a kickback for everything ordered through my link.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:11:06<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>At 12:40 AM 10/28/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Compendium I is useful if you plan to make much use of alien races.<BR><BR>Actually, you pretty much need CI to make use of the character templates in<BR>the GT books.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:14:35<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Sports Survived<BR><BR>At 10:11 PM 10/27/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Captain Sisko aside, will anyone play baseball anymore? Will they get in a<BR>&gt;&gt;lather about the Intrasystem Series? Most importantly, will the bloody damn<BR>&gt;&gt;Greater New York Yankees *still* win the World Series every three years?<BR><BR>&gt;Great. So not only do the Mets still have to worry about the Yankees, but<BR>&gt;now I've got to contend with the Yomiuri Giants. And let's not even *think*<BR>&gt;about what the Yerlyaruiwo Catsclaws can do...<BR><BR>The Chicago Cubs are still around.&nbsp; And they still haven't won the World<BR>Series.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:16:22<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: While were Filking<BR><BR>At 10:55 AM 10/28/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;while talking on IRC about such 70's things as CB Radio and <BR>&gt;Trucking Music last night, a warped idea came to mind.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;for the rebellion folks/vampire fleets folks out there<BR>&gt;what about a filk of Convoy? by CW McCall<BR><BR>LOL!&nbsp; Kev, I was on the couch reading through GF when that came on the<BR>feed, and I immediately came up with the same idea.&nbsp; Doc is sending me a<BR>copy of the song, and I have the original lyrics in hand.&nbsp; Know fear.<BR><BR>- --<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:37:14 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: TNE boxed set<BR><BR>On 10/20/00 at 01:07 AM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;I knocked over the *open* box for the TNE boxed set while cleaning.<BR><BR>&gt;I've found the 20 sided die and one 6-sider. I can't remrember if<BR>&gt;there was supposed to be a second six sider, and given *where* I<BR>&gt;knocked it over, I don't want to move furniture &amp; go crawling<BR>&gt;around if there was only one d6. <BR><BR>&gt;So, please drop me a note if you know how many dice there were. <BR><BR>&gt;Thanks!<BR><BR>Did anyone ever answer your question Leonard?<BR><BR>I have the boxed set and I *think* there were 2 d6 and 1 d20, but I can't be sure.&nbsp; I routinely remove dice from boxes and toss them into my dice jar, so I'm going on a dim memory from several years ago.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:54:22 -0700<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Sports Survived<BR><BR>From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;At 10:11 PM 10/27/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Captain Sisko aside, will anyone play baseball anymore? Will they get in<BR>a lather about the Intrasystem Series? Most importantly, will the bloody<BR>damn Greater New York Yankees *still* win the World Series every three<BR>years?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Great. So not only do the Mets still have to worry about the Yankees, but<BR>now I've got to contend with the Yomiuri Giants. And let's not even *think*<BR>about what the Yerlyaruiwo Catsclaws can do...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;The Chicago Cubs are still around.&nbsp; And they still haven't won the World<BR>Series.<BR>&gt;<BR>The Yomiuri Giants will win the "world" series before they do.<BR><BR>Kiri, LOL<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:24:27 -0400<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt;Actually, I think the question isn't which books survived the Long Night<BR>but<BR>&gt;which ones didn't.&nbsp; With things like the Gutenberg Project I see a time<BR>when<BR>&gt;all published works may be preserved in an electronic form.&nbsp; With todays<BR>&gt;technology huge amounts of text can be stored on a CD (let alone DVD).&nbsp; In<BR>&gt;terms of entertainment value/volume the written word certainly ranks far<BR>above<BR>&gt;all others.&nbsp; Who knows what storage mediums the future has in store.&nbsp; If<BR>you<BR>&gt;can store all of mankinds written works into something the size of a large<BR>&gt;suitcase, or even a refridgerator, wouldn't you see that every colony and<BR>&gt;outpost has one?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The way I see it, when ROM expanded throughout the Imperium I'm sure they<BR>took<BR>&gt;(vast) electronic libraries with them, if for no other reason to expose the<BR>&gt;conquered Vilani Imperium to Earth culture.&nbsp; You can also be sure that the<BR>AAB<BR>&gt;requested these records for storage and study.&nbsp; This is something I think<BR>ROM<BR>&gt;would have been happy to see happen.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That's my Cr0.02<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; William Molendyk<BR><BR>Then the question becomes what books are still read by "modern" Imperial<BR>citizens. For example I just today saw "The Art of War" at Barnes &amp; Noble on<BR>the bargain book rack $7.95, a very fine annotated hard bound edition,<BR>unsold while they get $24 for a "best seller" that no one will remember next<BR>year.<BR><BR>Many "Classic" books of literature initially remain in print only because<BR>they are taught at the college level, or at least that was the case a few<BR>decades ago. Take "The Great Gatsby" for example. It was out of print at the<BR>time that the first movie version was made. Later it became mandatory<BR>reading for college literature courses and eventually moved into a cultural<BR>position where it sold enough to be more or less in constant production.<BR>Electronic media changes all that. Everything, more or less will be<BR>available, to those that can read it. Don't forget that Galanglic is not<BR>English. How many people on the list can read Gilgamesh or The Canterbury<BR>Tales in their untranslated form?<BR><BR>Perhaps Strephon was quoting the Princess Bride the way a 19th Century<BR>British upper class member would quote a famous Greek or Latin saying. All<BR>the other highly educated nobles would know what he meant and the peasants<BR>would be properly impressed by his education.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:35:09<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Sports Survived<BR><BR>At 08:54 PM 10/28/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;The Chicago Cubs are still around.&nbsp; And they still haven't won the World<BR>&gt;Series.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;The Yomiuri Giants will win the "world" series before they do.<BR><BR>Kiri, you really know how to hurt a guy.<BR><BR>The dive taken by *my* Giants' Barry Bonds is only exceeded by that of the<BR>legendary Casey.<BR><BR>http://baseball-almanac.com/po_case.shtml<BR><BR>ObTrav: Baseball is a good example of how things like sports can drift.<BR>Even in the Major League there are critical rule differences between the NL<BR>and AL (the designated hitter rule being the most prominent) and the<BR>version played by the Japanese is almost unrecognizable to American fans.<BR><BR>So what would be the differences be in sports across even so small an area<BR>as a subsector?&nbsp; Slight rules variations, cultural differences.. all could<BR>make a big headache in a multi-world tournament.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp;&nbsp; Templar Agent at Large.<BR>gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TravGeekCode: <BR>tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:35:12 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 11:03 AM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I'm still waiting for someone to provide a reasonable, text-based case<BR>&gt; &gt;that ST is fascist.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Craig, you are coming to the 2002 Worldcon, yes?&nbsp; The "Heinlein is a<BR>&gt; Fascist" panel has become an institution, passed from Worldcon to Worldcon<BR>&gt; in a touching ceremony reminiscent of the passing of the Olympic flag.<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>&gt; perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>&gt; limbs!"&nbsp; - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR><BR>Definative answer...<BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Johnnie Rico<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I've joined the army. Watch my career.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Robert A. Heinlein<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Blah blah blah POLITICS blah blah blah ORDER blah blah blah<BR>PHILOSOPHY blah<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; blah blah MILITARY ORGANIZATION blah blah blah I HATE THE MILITARY<BR>OF MY<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; DAY blah blah blah WAR blah blah blah CITIZENSHIP blah blah blah<BR>VOTING blah<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; blah blah MORAL PHILOSOPHY blah blah blah MATH RULES blah blah blah<BR>- -- Story?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; We don't need no steenking story!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reader #1<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I am overawed. You are a god, Robert A. Heinlein.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reader #2<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I am overawed. You are a doofus, Robert A. Heinlein.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reader #3<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'm hungry. What's on TV?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; THE END<BR><BR>with thanks to&nbsp; Book-A-Minute SF/F home page at<BR>http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:12:48 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/24/00 9:01:28 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; For example, when addressing Norris, it is much easier to say "Lord Aledon"<BR>instead of "Archduke of Deneb Norris" &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>how about just "Your Grace"...:-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:19:55 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Teasers for GT GM's Screen<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/25/00 6:37:26 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Fantastic!&nbsp; I applaud the lack of obvious weaponry.<BR>&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>note the keyword: "OBVIOUS"...:-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:46:24 -0800<BR>From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>Terry Carlino &lt;carlino@home.com&gt; wrote:<BR>Don't forget that Galanglic is not<BR>&gt; English. How many people on the list can read Gilgamesh or The Canterbury<BR>&gt; Tales in their untranslated form?<BR><BR>My copy of 'The Canterbury Tales' is untranslated, and not really all that<BR>hard to comprehend.&nbsp; I've also got untranslated copies of 'Sir Gawain and<BR>the Green Knight,' 'Piers Plowman,' and various lyric poems, all of which<BR>are much more difficult, but, with a glossary and occasional marginal notes,<BR>are still readable.&nbsp; There was even theoretically a class at my college<BR>where they read poetry in the original Anglo-Saxon, but I know of no one who<BR>ever took it, and since that professor has since retired I doubt that class<BR>is offered anymore.<BR><BR>Can't say the same for Gilgamesh, but I did take a year of Classical Greek<BR>and was able to make it through short sections of original Homer, Plato, et<BR>al.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 05:12:12 -0600<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>Given that there was no laspe of cvilization between "now" and the<BR>incorporation of Terra into the 3I we may reasonably assume that most of<BR>the literature, flim and music of our time (apart from the works of R.<BR>Lionel Fanthorpe, a.k.a. Pel Toro) have survived.<BR><BR>Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to supress?&nbsp; <BR><BR>I'll start:<BR><BR>The collected works of Ayn Rand. She wasn't at all fond of Racial<BR>Supremicists (sic) nor did she care for state worshippers.<BR><BR>The Rocky Horror Show (play) and The Rocky Horror Picture Show (movie).<BR><BR>("We can't show good Solomani people being abused by depraved aliens now<BR>can we?")<BR><BR>Les &lt;with an evil grin&gt;<BR><BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3235<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:31:16 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:30:54 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id EAA50222;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:30:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:29:20 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id EAA49920<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:29:20 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:29:20 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010290929.EAA49920@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3235<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3236</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>10/29/00 5:44:19 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, October 29 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3236<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>What people watch/read<BR>almost...<BR>Re: What Sports Survived?<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: What people watch/read<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: TL13 AT request<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: TC Harrison<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: Books that survived... (An apology)<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:09:20 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: William Molendyk &lt;wmolendyk@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>- --- Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; snip &lt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to supress?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'll start:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The collected works of Ayn Rand. She wasn't at all fond of Racial<BR>&gt; Supremicists (sic) nor did she care for state worshippers.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Rocky Horror Show (play) and The Rocky Horror Picture Show (movie).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ("We can't show good Solomani people being abused by depraved aliens now<BR>&gt; can we?")<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; snip &lt;<BR><BR>On the other hand, they may still be around to show 'perverted and degenerate<BR>alien ways'.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; William Molendyk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:07:20 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: What people watch/read<BR><BR>&gt;Then the question becomes what books are still read by "modern" Imperial<BR>&gt;citizens. For example I just today saw "The Art of War" at Barnes &amp; Noble on<BR>&gt;the bargain book rack $7.95, a very fine annotated hard bound edition,<BR>&gt;unsold while they get $24 for a "best seller" that no one will remember next<BR>&gt;year.<BR><BR>I was watching "Keeping the Faith" again last night, Edward Norton's <BR>character (a Roman Catholic priest),<BR>asks his congregation to name the Seven Deadly Sins, and points out that <BR>they were in a recent, popular,<BR>Brad Pitt movie, "Come on, you have the ultimate Cliff Note."&nbsp; (switching <BR>gears, I saw this movie before I<BR>saw "Fight Club"...nice range of acting).<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:11:49 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: almost...<BR><BR>&gt;Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to supress?<BR>&gt;[snip]<BR>&gt;The Rocky Horror Show (play) and The Rocky Horror Picture Show (movie).<BR>&gt;("We can't show good Solomani people being abused by depraved aliens now<BR>&gt;can we?")<BR><BR>SolSec *likes* to show films of good Solomani people being abused by <BR>depraved aliens.<BR>It stirs up the party base.<BR><BR>What they don't want shown is good Solomani people being abused by depraved <BR>aliens *and liking it!*<BR><BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend<BR>that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,<BR>or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY<BR>CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:24:34 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: What Sports Survived?<BR><BR>"VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Which sports followed the Solomani exodus into the Ziru Sirka?<BR><BR>Football, cricket, table tennis - currently the favourite sports of<BR>about 75% of the world's population...<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:34:52 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>on 10/29/00 3:12 AM, Leslie Bates at lesbates@minn.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Given that there was no laspe of cvilization between "now" and the<BR>&gt; incorporation of Terra into the 3I we may reasonably assume that most of<BR>&gt; the literature, flim and music of our time (apart from the works of R.<BR>&gt; Lionel Fanthorpe, a.k.a. Pel Toro) have survived.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to supress?<BR><BR>Ban a book and you make it a best seller.&nbsp; With historical works, why not<BR>just rewrite it to better support official policy?&nbsp; Of course the<BR>unadulterated version out there are obviously faked by aliens seeking to<BR>corrupt authentic Solomani works.<BR><BR>In a hundred years, who'll know the difference?<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:59:52 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Given that there was no laspe of cvilization between "now" and the<BR>incorporation of Terra into the 3I we may reasonably assume that most of the<BR>literature, flim and music of our time (apart from the works of R. Lionel<BR>Fanthorpe, a.k.a. Pel Toro) have survived.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to supress?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'll start:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The collected works of Ayn Rand. She wasn't at all fond of Racial<BR>Supremicists (sic) nor did she care for state worshippers.<BR>&gt;<BR>The works of Robert Heinlein, for similar reasons.<BR><BR>&gt;The Rocky Horror Show (play) and The Rocky Horror Picture Show (movie).<BR>&gt; ("We can't show good Solomani people being abused by depraved aliens now<BR>can we?")<BR>&gt;<BR>hmm... suppressing anything that gets people where they live, and inspires<BR>the kind of loyalty the way Rocky does, is dangerous...&nbsp;&nbsp; that's one of the<BR>main reasons Christianity isn't just a footnote like all the other mystery<BR>resurrection cults of that era.&nbsp; Of course Christianity was subverted by<BR>someone (Constantine) looking for a hook to unite a failing Empire, and I<BR>don't even wanna think of what could happen if someone tried that with<BR>Rocky...<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:09:02 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>William Molendyk wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --- Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; snip &lt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to supress?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The Rocky Horror Show (play) and The Rocky Horror Picture Show (movie).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ("We can't show good Solomani people being abused by depraved aliens now<BR>&gt; &gt; can we?")<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; snip &lt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On the other hand, they may still be around to show 'perverted and degenerate<BR>&gt; alien ways'.<BR><BR>You say "perverted and degenerate" as if that's a _bad_ thing! ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:10:32 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>Leslie Bates wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Given that there was no laspe of cvilization between "now" and the<BR>&gt; incorporation of Terra into the 3I we may reasonably assume that most of<BR>&gt; the literature, flim and music of our time (apart from the works of R.<BR>&gt; Lionel Fanthorpe, a.k.a. Pel Toro) have survived.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to supress?<BR>&gt; <BR>SolSec would not suppress any works by native Terrans.&nbsp; Just ask them.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:57:51 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/29/00 5:02:52 PM !!!First Boot!!!, tiamat@tsoft.com <BR>writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; The works of Robert Heinlein, for similar reasons. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>of course Sol Sec might try and interpret RH the OTHER way, calling him a <BR>prophet (and now I duck and cover from the thermonuclear RAH flamewars...:-))<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:00:00<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>At 01:12 AM 10/29/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;In a message dated 10/24/00 9:01:28 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>&gt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;For example, when addressing Norris, it is much easier to say "Lord Aledon"<BR>&gt;&gt;instead of "Archduke of Deneb Norris"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;how about just "Your Grace"...:-)<BR><BR>You run into the problem soldiers face when trying to attract the attention<BR>of a single officer in a group.&nbsp; Just saying "Excuse me sir" will get<BR>everybody's attention, but "Excuse me, Captain Shoaf?" Will target it to<BR>the one officer involved.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:42:02 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What people watch/read<BR><BR>You want to talk about range....This guy can do it all. He was a lawyer in<BR>"The People vs. Larry Flynt", a murderer with a dual personality in "Primal<BR>Fear" a skinhead in "American History X" (nominated for an academy award in<BR>both of the latter films), a card shark in "Rounders" and the lead in a<BR>Woody Allen movie, "Everyone Says I Love You". He is one of the truly<BR>*gifted* actors of his generation.....<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"Genuine Antique Person"..been there,done that,can't remember..<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Mark Urbin" &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 11:07 AM<BR>Subject: What people watch/read<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was watching "Keeping the Faith" again last night, Edward Norton's<BR>&gt; character (a Roman Catholic priest),<BR>&gt; asks his congregation to name the Seven Deadly Sins, and points out that<BR>&gt; they were in a recent, popular,<BR>&gt; Brad Pitt movie, "Come on, you have the ultimate Cliff Note."&nbsp; (switching<BR>&gt; gears, I saw this movie before I<BR>&gt; saw "Fight Club"...nice range of acting).<BR>&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- -<BR>&gt; urbin@bigfoot.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:34:19 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:07:13 -0700<BR>&gt; From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I mean, I understand that English is the only language we all have in<BR>&gt; common on this list, but come on!&nbsp; Just because you don't know about it<BR>&gt; and couldn't read/understand it if you did, doesn't mean no one else<BR>&gt; would keep it alive... <BR><BR>*sigh* Is it time to post the "Yanks In Space" policy document again?&nbsp; I<BR>mean, it's not like anyone else has any culture worth preserving, after<BR>all. :)<BR><BR>Seriously speaking, I do wonder how long the leveling pressures of US<BR>control of media will allow other languages to survive as living, pure<BR>languages.&nbsp; With English as the de facto international language of trade,<BR>net communication, diplomacy, science, and (most importantly)<BR>entertainment, how long before it's virtually everyone's first language?<BR>A century or two at most, is my guess.&nbsp; And particularly with the Vilani<BR>threat in the Trav timeline, which will tend to unify Terrans in the<BR>classic "us vs. them" way.&nbsp; Nothing like a common enemy to make you feel<BR>brotherly toward your allies, which will naturally lower cultural<BR>resistance to linguistic imperialism.<BR><BR>This "great leveling" is already well under way, within and outside the<BR>traditionally English-speaking world.&nbsp; There was a time when dialects of<BR>English were mutually unintelligible within England; now most accents<BR>there are drifting toward the southern midlands "norm" used by the BBC.<BR>Similarly, regional accents in the US are gravitating toward the<BR>California norm which dominates television.<BR><BR>One can only imagine that this process will continue, and indeed<BR>accelerate, during the 21st century.&nbsp; It's rather sad, much like the<BR>parallel loss of ecosystem diversity.&nbsp; Also in parallel, it's dangerous;<BR>the fewer distinct styles of thought and cultures we have available, the<BR>more likely we are to be lacking something essential to deal with a new<BR>challenge.&nbsp; Unfortunately I see no way to stop either process, and only a<BR>few ways to (perhaps) slow either down a little.<BR><BR>One good thing about the Traveller timeline is that it contrives to create<BR>a setting (the RoM and (even more so) the Long Night) in which cultural<BR>and linguistic diversity can build again.&nbsp; Is it possible that the long-<BR>standing puzzle of why worlds languish at low TLs in the Third Imperium is<BR>part of a conscious, careful conservation-of-diversity policy being<BR>executed by Imperial psychohistorians?&nbsp; Hm.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:59:03 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/29/00 4:31:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>lesbates@minn.net writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to supress? <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; I'll start:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; The collected works of Ayn Rand. She wasn't at all fond of Racial<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Supremicists (sic) nor did she care for state worshippers.<BR><BR>Although, oddly enough, I've run into some (self-proclaimed) admirers<BR>of Rand who are frothing-at-the-mouth racists.&nbsp; I suspect it's because<BR>they liked the "romantic individualism" parts of her work and didn't<BR>actually try to understand the philosophy.<BR><BR>Not that I disagree with you.&nbsp; When Rand wrote about "the aristocracy<BR>of pull" she might have been thinking of the Solomani Party :-).<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:22:05 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kiri, amused.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I am amused as well.<BR><BR>I think that the opinions being stated are simply summaries of the works<BR>that the posters feel are significant or have enduring value.&nbsp; One can only<BR>write to one's experience or imagination.&nbsp; One of the essential values of<BR>this list is that it enables WASPish Yanquis like me, of limited experience,<BR>to expand our own knowledge.<BR><BR>This is perhaps the same reason that Traveller's 3I itself has been seen by<BR>some as "Eurocentric."&nbsp; It is Eurocentric out of accident rather than<BR>intent.&nbsp; More knowledgeable individuals such as Marc and Loren would be<BR>better equipped to verify this, but I think that such factors as having<BR>Hiroshi I the first ruler of the 2I speak for themselves.<BR><BR>On the other hand, perhaps the NorthAm/Euro crowd comprised the majority of<BR>the Solomani colonizing the defeated Ziru Sirka. That would also explain the<BR>Euro bias and is a valid argument if one desires the forestated works to be<BR>representative of those survining the Long Night into the 3I.<BR><BR>I, for one, believe that Terra suffered comparatively litle through the Long<BR>Night as stated in&nbsp; the canon.&nbsp; Therefore its libraries and vast sums of<BR>knowledge remain intact.&nbsp; The only reason I believe that Terra is now 1-3 TL<BR>high in most areas than the 3I is that it was flattened during the SRW along<BR>with 1/4 or so of the SolRim.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:38:44 -0600<BR>From: Sinbad Sam &lt;sinbad@hex.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TL13 AT request<BR><BR>At 03:51 AM 10/25/2000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I need an TL13 infantry anti-tank weapon ... I'm&nbsp; thinking&nbsp; of&nbsp; a<BR>&gt;TL13 equivalent to the Milan anti-tank rocket (transportable&nbsp; and<BR>&gt;operable by a 4-man fireteam).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Has anyone got a design with&nbsp; stats&nbsp; in&nbsp; MT&nbsp; format?&nbsp; Ideally&nbsp; it<BR>&gt;should be powerful enough to pose a threat to a Zhodani Z-80 MBT.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Regards PLST<BR>Well certainly Sir,<BR><BR>We here at Redkneck Arms and Munitions(RAAM) will be more than happy to assist you. As the makers of the "Little Bubba" and "Big Bubba" anti ship missile delivery systems, we have the needed technical expertise and experience.<BR><BR>Signed <BR>A. Lone Redkneck, IV<BR>CEO, founder, junior janitor, and lead test subject/target.<BR><BR>Could you supply some specifications? Like Maximum mass/weight, range, armor penetration minimums,&nbsp; &nbsp; I don't recall the Z-80 MBT, I have a lot of Traveller Books/materials, if you could point the way so to speak. I will be using a G^3 spreadsheet that does rockets/guided missiles very well, and outputs them in MT/GT formats.<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:30:30 -0600<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>At 03:59 PM 10/29/00 EST, Jon. F. Zeigler wrote:<BR>&gt;In a message dated 10/29/00 4:31:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>&gt;lesbates@minn.net writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Why not ask: What works or authors of our time would SolSec try to<BR>supress? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; I'll start:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; The collected works of Ayn Rand. She wasn't at all fond of Racial<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Supremicists (sic) nor did she care for state worshippers.<BR><BR>&gt;Not that I disagree with you.&nbsp; When Rand wrote about "the aristocracy<BR>&gt;of pull" she might have been thinking of the Solomani Party :-).<BR><BR>It could also describe the Imperial Megacorporations.<BR><BR>Les<BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:34:30 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TC Harrison<BR><BR>On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:29:20 -0500 (EST), "James Jensen"<BR>&lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;The Chronicles of T.C. Harrison is back as a weekly newsletter at eGroups. <BR>&gt;To subscribe, send a blank message to:<BR><BR>&gt;TCHarrison-subscribe@egroups.com<BR><BR>&gt;(I haven't posted an installment yet. Next week.)<BR><BR>Also, as soon as a minor problem with Downport gets straightened out<BR>(hopefully by the time most of you read this), the parts that have been<BR>published to date will be found in Raconteur's Rest at Freelance Traveller.<BR>I'll also be keeping up with the series, and (with James's permission)<BR>posting additional parts on a regular but unspecified-at-present schedule.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:38:51 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Seriously speaking, I do wonder how long the leveling pressures of US<BR>control of media will allow other languages to survive as living, pure<BR>languages.&nbsp; With English as the de facto international language of trade,<BR>net communication, diplomacy, science, and (most importantly) entertainment,<BR>how long before it's virtually everyone's first language?<BR>&gt;<BR>There's no such thing as a pure language, which is why everyone laughs at<BR>the French attempt to keep French pure.&nbsp; Japanese has been very strongly<BR>influenced by Chinese, Portuguese, French, German, and now English.<BR><BR>It still remains a very distinct language, and even though all Japanese are<BR>required to study English in junior high and high school, most of them suck<BR>at it.&nbsp; I am always begging people in Tokyo to speak Japanese to me so that<BR>I can understand them!<BR><BR>English is the lingua franca right now.&nbsp; At other points in time it has been<BR>French, Latin, Greek...<BR><BR>There is no reason to believe it will be this way forever.&nbsp; If the US ceases<BR>to dominate the world, and this will eventually happen, for no Empire lasts<BR>forever, English will become less important.&nbsp; And all the languages that<BR>have been affected by English will still have English loanwords, just as<BR>French and German and Latin and Greek have left their mark on all the<BR>Western languages and Chinese has left its mark on all the Asian<BR>languages... but some other language will eventually rise to ascendancy,<BR>perhaps even Vilani?<BR><BR>In other cultures, everyone has access to English-language entertainment,<BR>but it certainly has not REPLACED entertainment in the native tongue.&nbsp; We<BR>just aren't aware of that because we don't pay attention.&nbsp; A traveller in<BR>Tokyo who hears English-language music on the soundtrack of a shopping<BR>center, by a band that is popular in America, notices this, but doesn't<BR>notice the two or three tracks that follow in Japanese.&nbsp; I can't speak to<BR>other countries because I haven't spent enough time in them, but I would bet<BR>it's the same.&nbsp; Furthermore, at least here in California, there are a lot of<BR>Americans who listen to and follow entertainment in Spanish, Japanese, and<BR>Chinese.&nbsp; Not everyone who notices that I have Ozaki Yutaka's name written<BR>on my backpack in the streets of San Francisco (and not in English) and who<BR>knows who he is and asks me about it is a tourist or an immigrant!<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:57:27 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>From: Dan Lane &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Kiri, amused.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;I am amused as well.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I think that the opinions being stated are simply summaries of the works<BR>that the posters feel are significant or have enduring value.&nbsp; One can only<BR>write to one's experience or imagination.<BR>&gt;<BR>Oh, I agree, and I'm not blaming anyone, but if I *seriously* were going to<BR>make a list of ten items from the 20th century that would survive to the<BR>57th century, I'd make a list of four I personally knew, and then ask<BR>around, to people who speak and read other languages.&nbsp; And I'd only give<BR>myself four because I speak and read two languages that happen to have been<BR>quite historically significant in this particular century!<BR><BR>Now if the question is "which ten items of culture that you know and enjoy<BR>do you think should survive?" I could make a list, but it wouldn't give me<BR>the same social fulfillment the others who've posted lists are enjoying (the<BR>"yeah, me too" factor), because I bet about half of them wouldn't be<BR>recognized!<BR><BR>&gt;This is perhaps the same reason that Traveller's 3I itself has been seen by<BR>some as "Eurocentric."&nbsp; It is Eurocentric out of accident rather than<BR>intent.&nbsp; More knowledgeable individuals such as Marc and Loren would be<BR>better equipped to verify this, but I think that such factors as having<BR>Hiroshi I the first ruler of the 2I speak for themselves.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I suppose I really should have tried to stick it out another couple hundred<BR>years.&nbsp; But those other girls kept calling my office, and it got to be a<BR>pain!&nbsp; ^_-&nbsp; If I ever find out that the first empress of the 2I was named<BR>Jaime, I will kill someone.&nbsp; (Quite possibly it will be Jaime.)&nbsp; Doug, you<BR>know I've got plenty of cause, would you give me an alibi?<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 00:03:08 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived... (An apology)<BR><BR>- --------------------Original Message starts--------------------<BR>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:11:25 EDT<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt;Pilgrims Progress by Chaucer (You need something to torture Language<BR>&gt;students with)<BR><BR>That sound you hear is John Bunyan, reaching 8500 rpm in his grave.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR>- ------------Original Message ends---------------<BR><BR>Whoops, I said it was late at night, my apologies to everyone, the worse<BR>thing was I was desperately trying to remember the author of Pilgrim's<BR>Progress and the book Chaucer wrote as I wanted to post both on the top 10<BR>list.<BR><BR><BR>Peter (Who really isn't the literary barbarian this makes me sound, honest)<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:24:12<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>At 12:34 PM 10/29/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;*sigh* Is it time to post the "Yanks In Space" policy document again?&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;mean, it's not like anyone else has any culture worth preserving, after<BR>&gt;all. :)<BR><BR>"I will gladly defend American culture, just as soon as somebody creates<BR>some."<BR><BR>The majority of artists/films/books listed have been modern/Anglo-American<BR>because that's what we know.&nbsp; Kiri knows different forms, as does Carlos,<BR>and Jens.&nbsp; I'm sure that if I sat in on one of their games, the Imperium<BR>would have a different feel.<BR><BR>Regarding "Yanks in Space,"&nbsp; when writing Ground Forces I made a serious<BR>attempt to avoid making the Imperial Army and Marines carbon copies of the<BR>US Army.&nbsp; The overall feel of the forces is British, the Army organization<BR>is based on Soviet-style regiments, and I stole bits and pieces from all<BR>over.&nbsp; Despite this, during the playtest I was accused of "YiS" because I<BR>used things that were recognizably American.<BR><BR>Yanks in Space is in the eye of the beholder.&nbsp; I like grounding my<BR>campaigns and writings in something familiar, because then I don't have to<BR>spend endless hours explaining the social order of the Hierarchy of Gaboo.<BR><BR>Anybody remember _Empire of the Petal Throne_?&nbsp; Well done, but almost<BR>unplayable.&nbsp; The societies were too alien for most people.. it is a little<BR>too much to ask that we learn a new language to enjoy the game!&nbsp; RuneQuest<BR>had a equally fantastic world, but the ground-level society was one that<BR>was recognizable.&nbsp; It was far more successful.<BR><BR>IMTU: In Lunion, symphonic music is undergoing a revival.&nbsp; The Landing<BR>Symphony Orchestra is planning a season long retrospective on the works of<BR>Anu Stiresa, the Dawn-era Sylean composer.&nbsp; The highlight will be a<BR>five-night run of her "Requiem For A Lost History."<BR><BR>The hot thing in pop music is tekencheplic.&nbsp; In this style artists channel<BR>their EEGs into synthesizers, producing driving, rhythmic sound and light<BR>shows.&nbsp; With practise, the effect can be quite captivating.&nbsp; "Tekens" do a<BR>variety of things to alter their brain waves, from taking drugs to extremes<BR>like having sex while wired or inflicting pain to get a stronger response.<BR>The teken known only as Shi has drawn criticism and police investigations<BR>with his performances, which consist of him being tortured on stage.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:41:50 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Don't forget that Galanglic is not<BR>&gt;&gt; English. How many people on the list can read Gilgamesh or The Canterbury<BR>&gt;&gt; Tales in their untranslated form?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;My copy of 'The Canterbury Tales' is untranslated, and not really all that<BR>&gt;hard to comprehend.&nbsp; I've also got untranslated copies of 'Sir Gawain and<BR>&gt;the Green Knight,' 'Piers Plowman,' and various lyric poems, all of which<BR>&gt;are much more difficult, but, with a glossary and occasional marginal<BR>notes,<BR>&gt;are still readable.&nbsp; There was even theoretically a class at my college<BR>&gt;where they read poetry in the original Anglo-Saxon, but I know of no one<BR>who<BR>&gt;ever took it, and since that professor has since retired I doubt that class<BR>&gt;is offered anymore.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Can't say the same for Gilgamesh, but I did take a year of Classical Greek<BR>&gt;and was able to make it through short sections of original Homer, Plato, et<BR>&gt;al.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Trent<BR><BR>Just my point. Most people who read such works today do so in a university<BR>environment. Some few of us might read them for our own pleasure but I'd bet<BR>that even this group was first exposed to these works while in school.<BR>**Most** people (generally not of the type found among RPG players) read<BR>very little. Those that read some typically read "Best Sellers" or some<BR>other mainstream stuff. A few read Science Fiction or Westerns or Romances,<BR>which is why books stores have sections devoted to these kinds of books.<BR>Almost no one reads the classics.<BR><BR>I remember reading somewhere that in the early United States so many people<BR>read Greek that a when newspaper ran a story critiquing a new translation of<BR>a work from a classical Greek playwright they included a copy of a passage<BR>from the play along with the translation so that the reading public could<BR>judge for themselves if the paper's critique was accurate.<BR><BR>Many educated Americans don't even speak a second modern language, let alone<BR>any dead ones. While I would expect most members of the Imperial Nobility to<BR>be multilingual, as well as most Traders and other Travellers, I wouldn't<BR>expect this of most Imperial citizens. Of these groups I would only expect<BR>the Nobles to be able to read English, Spanish, Russian or French. Of course<BR>there could be some interesting variations of these languages out there.<BR><BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3236<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:44:19 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:43:47 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA28609;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:43:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:42:58 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA28572<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:42:57 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:42:57 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010300142.UAA28572@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3236<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, October 29 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3237<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>You to? (was: Books that survived...)<BR>Founding of SolSec<BR>Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Re: regional accents<BR>Linguistic survival<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>RE: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: Founding of SolSec<BR>Re: regional accents<BR>RE: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Traveller Reprint 3 The Adventures<BR>Re: What Sports Survived?<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR>Re: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:54:30 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;At 12:34 PM 10/29/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yanks in Space is in the eye of the beholder.&nbsp; I like grounding my<BR>campaigns and writings in something familiar, because then I don't have to<BR>spend endless hours explaining the social order of the Hierarchy of Gaboo.<BR>&gt;<BR>There's nothing wrong with that... I was just pointing out the silliness of<BR>saying that THESE are the ten things that would survive and they're all in<BR>English, when there are how many more Chinese than us?<BR><BR>&gt;Anybody remember _Empire of the Petal Throne_?&nbsp; Well done, but almost<BR>unplayable.&nbsp; The societies were too alien for most people.. it is a little<BR>too much to ask that we learn a new language to enjoy the game!<BR>&gt;<BR>Yeah, but I liked it.&nbsp; I would, wouldn't I?<BR><BR>&gt;IMTU: In Lunion, symphonic music is undergoing a revival.&nbsp; The Landing<BR>Symphony Orchestra is planning a season long retrospective on the works of<BR>Anu Stiresa, the Dawn-era Sylean composer.&nbsp; The highlight will be a<BR>five-night run of her "Requiem For A Lost History."<BR>&gt;<BR>Bigger endurance test than the Ring Cycle?<BR><BR>&gt;The hot thing in pop music is tekencheplic.&nbsp; In this style artists channel<BR>their EEGs into synthesizers, producing driving, rhythmic sound and light<BR>shows.&nbsp; With practise, the effect can be quite captivating.&nbsp; "Tekens" do a<BR>variety of things to alter their brain waves, from taking drugs to extremes<BR>like having sex while wired or inflicting pain to get a stronger response.<BR>The teken known only as Shi has drawn criticism and police investigations<BR>with his performances, which consist of him being tortured on stage.<BR>&gt;<BR>um... she asks, tentatively... is this the guy you were thinking of making<BR>Mitsuko's obsession?<BR><BR>Call me sometime!<BR><BR>The other other Kiri ^_^<BR>(Doug's wife is a Kiri, too.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:36:34 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: You to? (was: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 5:51:pm<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Given the existance of copyright libraries, many of the books (and music,<BR>&gt; films etc) we have today will have 'survived' (ie still have copies<BR>physically<BR>&gt; existing). The question is then, which will have survived in the<BR>widespread<BR>&gt; conciousness; and that is more a matter of random chance. However one<BR>&gt; group of players in a campaign of mine were horified when the visited<BR>&gt; Capital and found that the cultural highlight of the season was Princess<BR>&gt; Ciencia Iphegenia doing a public reading of selected works by the great<BR>&gt; 20th Century writers Mills &amp; Boon.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>ROFLOL!!!!<BR><BR>I had Mills &amp; Boon as a great 20th C writing team in MY TU!!&nbsp; One of the<BR>other things I used to annoy my PC's with (along with Pepsi winning the cola<BR>wars), and even more so when they had to actually find certain quotes out of<BR>one of my wife's copies in order to "woo" an NPC into getting them some<BR>badly needed pp parts... they had to feign interest in "Classical Sol<BR>literature." ;)<BR><BR>- -- The Roc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:29:52 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Founding of SolSec<BR><BR>Question for the list.<BR><BR>Is there any canonical reference to when SolSec was created?&nbsp; If not, anyone<BR>care to venture an opinion.<BR><BR>Thanks, Tod<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:33:19 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>What is the list's opinion on the use of Eugenics within the Solomani<BR>Confederation or C3I.&nbsp; Given the Vilani predilection for avoiding change,<BR>does this carry over to the 3I?&nbsp; There is evidence of geneering amongst the<BR>Sollies.&nbsp; Why not a widespread campaign of 'positive eugenics'?<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:36:39 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;At 12:40 AM 10/28/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Compendium I is useful if you plan to make much use of alien races.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, you pretty much need CI to make use of the character templates in<BR>&gt;the GT books.<BR><BR>Not completely. Sure there are some things that aren't in the Basic Set, but one *could* get by without CI. It is personally starting to irk me that just about every book being released for GURPS now also requires CI.<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:34:52 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: regional accents<BR><BR>&gt; Similarly, regional accents in the US are gravitating toward the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; California norm which dominates television.<BR><BR>20 years ago this dialect was called "General American" and has nothing to do <BR>with California. In any case, I believe the current feeling among linguists <BR>is that accents/dialects are alive and well (at least in the US). I hear four <BR>in Austin on a regular basis . . . Not that I'm an expert in these matters, <BR>all I know is what I learned from my brother the actor.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:50:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:38:51 -0800<BR>&gt; From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Seriously speaking, I do wonder how long the leveling pressures of US<BR>&gt; control of media will allow other languages to survive as living, pure<BR>&gt; languages.&nbsp; With English as the de facto international language of trade,<BR>&gt; net communication, diplomacy, science, and (most importantly) entertainment,<BR>&gt; how long before it's virtually everyone's first language?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There's no such thing as a pure language, which is why everyone laughs at<BR>&gt; the French attempt to keep French pure.&nbsp; Japanese has been very strongly<BR>&gt; influenced by Chinese, Portuguese, French, German, and now English.<BR><BR>Of course; I was typing (and thinking) quickly, and expressed myself<BR>poorly.&nbsp; What I intended to say was "as living, distinct, unassimilated<BR>cultures and languages".&nbsp; Or something similar to that, but less clumsy. :)<BR><BR>There are numerous intermediate states for a language to be in between<BR>"living" and "dead".&nbsp; As Kiri points out, all healthy languages change<BR>over time, either through internal mutation or external borrowings.<BR>English happens to be well-suited to borrowing words, and to changing<BR>words from one part of speech to another, which is one of the reasons it's<BR>done so well.&nbsp; But 'borrowing' can be a slippery slope.<BR><BR>Consider Nahuatl, the language spoken in central Mexico (by the so-called<BR>'Aztecs', among many other cultures).&nbsp; Following the Spanish conquest,<BR>Nahuatl was gradually marginalized, becoming the language of the poor<BR>rural farmers.&nbsp; Smart kids wanting to move up in society learned Spanish<BR>as fast as they could and left for the cities.&nbsp; What's more, Nahuatl<BR>speakers borrowed extensively from Spanish, to the point where not merely<BR>words but rules of grammar shifted to fit the Spanish model (differently<BR>in different communities, of course).&nbsp; So today, Nahuatl is a "living"<BR>language, with millions of native speakers -- but most of them are<BR>bilingual in Spanish, which is seen as the 'prestige' language.&nbsp; And none<BR>of them can speak or think in Nahuatl without a strong, inescapable<BR>overlay of Spanish linguistic and cultural influences.&nbsp; Over time, it<BR>seems inevitable that Nahuatl will die.<BR><BR>Of course, this has happend over and over again in human history; from my<BR>own cultural past, English was similarly overwhelmed and modified beyond<BR>recognition by the Norman invasion.&nbsp; The difference is that previously,<BR>barriers to communication kept the language diversity roughly constant;<BR>for each language that disappeared, another dialect would drift into<BR>separate-language status.&nbsp; Now, with instantaneous world communication and<BR>US cultural hegemony, the branching of languages has ceased, and the death<BR>rate increased markedly.&nbsp; Again, the ecological parallel is clear.<BR><BR>&gt; English is the lingua franca right now.&nbsp; At other points in time it has<BR>&gt; been French, Latin, Greek... <BR><BR>The situation now is quite different from any previous one, though.&nbsp; Short<BR>of a massive catastrophe reshuffling the cards, could anything unseat<BR>English as the primary language at this point?&nbsp; (Traveller canon clearly<BR>answers 'no', by the way.)<BR><BR>&gt; There is no reason to believe it will be this way forever.&nbsp; If the US<BR>&gt; ceases to dominate the world, and this will eventually happen, for no<BR>&gt; Empire lasts forever, English will become less important. <BR><BR>But English is the first *world-wide* lingua franca, and already has<BR>enormous cultural momentum behind it.&nbsp; I can't imagine a scenario where<BR>this momentum could be averted.&nbsp; This may just be a failure of imagination<BR>on my part, of course. :)<BR><BR>&gt; Furthermore, at least here in California, there are a lot of Americans<BR>&gt; who listen to and follow entertainment in Spanish, Japanese, and<BR>&gt; Chinese.&nbsp; Not everyone who notices that I have Ozaki Yutaka's name<BR>&gt; written on my backpack in the streets of San Francisco (and not in<BR>&gt; English) and who knows who he is and asks me about it is a tourist or an<BR>&gt; immigrant! <BR><BR>I just had the interesting experience of being taken to a restaurant in<BR>the Koreatown section of Los Angeles by some Korean friends.&nbsp; The menus<BR>made a stab at offering English selections, but they were basically<BR>phonetic renderings of the Korean dish names, which I don't know.&nbsp; And the<BR>staff were monolingual Korean.&nbsp; I had to let my friends order, ask for<BR>drink refills, all that stuff.&nbsp; In the middle of LA.&nbsp; It was intriguing.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:59:03 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>On Sun, 29 Oct 2000, Terry Carlino wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I remember reading somewhere that in the early United States so many people<BR>&gt; read Greek that a when newspaper ran a story critiquing a new translation of<BR>&gt; a work from a classical Greek playwright they included a copy of a passage<BR>&gt; from the play along with the translation so that the reading public could<BR>&gt; judge for themselves if the paper's critique was accurate.<BR><BR>That's not so much that so many people could read ancient greek, as so few<BR>people read newspapers. Or could read, for that matter.<BR><BR>The classical education of the time pretty much taught Greek, Latin,<BR>logic, rhetoric, and maybe some history. Daring schools also taught<BR>mathematics, and very daring schools taught natural science, which was in<BR>it's infancy.<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:17:52 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>Brandon Cope wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;At 12:40 AM 10/28/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Compendium I is useful if you plan to make much use of alien races.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, you pretty much need CI to make use of the character templates in<BR>&gt; &gt;the GT books.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not completely. Sure there are some things that aren't in the Basic Set, but one *could* get by without CI. It is personally starting to irk me that just about every book being released for GURPS now also requires CI.<BR><BR>Were I a GURPS player, I think that I would be _more_ annoyed if every<BR>worldbook for GURPS included several pages of C-I reprint, since this<BR>would reduce the number of pages dedicated to the subject at hand.&nbsp; I'd<BR>rather buy the durned book (which I have) than see the same material<BR>rehashed in worldbook after worldbook.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:51:39 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I just had the interesting experience of being taken to a restaurant in<BR>&gt; the Koreatown section of Los Angeles by some Korean friends.&nbsp; The menus<BR>&gt; made a stab at offering English selections, but they were basically<BR>&gt; phonetic renderings of the Korean dish names, which I don't know.&nbsp; And the<BR>&gt; staff were monolingual Korean.&nbsp; I had to let my friends order, ask for<BR>&gt; drink refills, all that stuff.&nbsp; In the middle of LA.&nbsp; It was intriguing.<BR><BR>Hmmm.&nbsp; Reminds me of an encounter I had on my Greyhound expedition to<BR>BayCon earlier this year:<BR><BR>*note: Spanish is rarely encountered in either Missouri (my home state)<BR>or Louisiana (my current residence)*<BR><BR>The bus stopped somewhere in Texas long enough for us to disembark for<BR>an hour or so.&nbsp; During the layover, I encountered a girl who was trying<BR>to purchase a beverage from a vending machine.&nbsp; As a Spanish-only<BR>speaker, she couldn't understand why she couldn't get the machine to<BR>deliver her desired beverage for the dollar bill she had inserted, nor<BR>could she get any useful answers from the other English-speaking<BR>passersby.&nbsp; With my one semester of Spanish 101, I pointed to the<BR>vending machine (the Spanish word for "machine" being beyond my<BR>vocabulary at the time), and told her that it "wanted more money."&nbsp; When<BR>she asked "how much?", I thought for a second, realized that the Spanish<BR>for "fifty cents" was _well_ beyond my limited vocabulary, and pulled<BR>two quarters from my pocket.&nbsp; I pointed to the quarters a couple of<BR>times, and pointed to the machine.&nbsp; She understood, and, after feeding<BR>the vending machine the appropriate change, received her beverage. <BR>Meanwhile, I was proud that, for the first time since I began my study<BR>of Spanish, I was able to communicate outside a classroom setting.<BR><BR>What does this have to do with Traveller?&nbsp; Several things:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Even within the borders of the 3I, there will be times when having<BR>at least a rudimentary knowledge of a foreign language will be useful.<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; One cannot assume that everyone speaks one's native language.<BR><BR>3.&nbsp; Communication across linguistic lines does not require full fluency.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:43:22 -0800<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; There is no reason to believe it will be this way forever.&nbsp; If the US<BR>&gt; &gt; ceases to dominate the world, and this will eventually happen, for no<BR>&gt; &gt; Empire lasts forever, English will become less important.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But English is the first *world-wide* lingua franca, and already has<BR>&gt; enormous cultural momentum behind it.&nbsp; I can't imagine a scenario where<BR>&gt; this momentum could be averted.&nbsp; This may just be a failure of imagination<BR>&gt; on my part, of course. :)<BR><BR>There is a recent book, "A History of Language," by Steven Roger Fischer<BR>which discusses the future of English and other languages on Earth. Fischer<BR>is a linguistic heavyweight, so this is not just the raving of a TML loonie<BR>(i.e., me). Fischer claims that it almost certain that only three languages<BR>will survive the next 300 years: Mandarin Chinese, Spanish, and English. Of<BR>these, he predicts that by as early as the late twenty-fourth century,<BR>English may be the only one left. For more details, read the book.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:53:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: William Molendyk &lt;wmolendyk@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>- --- John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; William Molendyk wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; snip &lt;<BR>&gt;&gt; On the other hand, they may still be around to show 'perverted and<BR>&gt;&gt; degenerate alien ways'.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You say "perverted and degenerate" as if that's a _bad_ thing! ;-)<BR><BR>That's why I put it in quotes.&nbsp; It's not my opinion, it's just the sort of<BR>rhetoric the forces of censorship, oppression and hate would use to justify<BR>their position.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; William Molendyk<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rocky fan since 1978<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:54:23 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Founding of SolSec<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/29/00 9:32:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Is there any canonical reference to when SolSec was created?&nbsp; If not, anyone<BR>&gt;&nbsp; care to venture an opinion.<BR><BR>I don't believe there is -- AM6 simply refers to it in the "present-day" <BR>context,<BR>although it's likely that it's been around for some time given how ingrained<BR>it is in Solomani society.<BR><BR>I would suggest that it dates back to not long after the establishment of the<BR>Solomani Sphere in 704.&nbsp; One gets the impression that the Solomani Cause<BR>wasn't universally accepted in the Sphere from the beginning, and that the<BR>assimilation of the entire Sphere under the SAR government was not always<BR>a peaceful process.&nbsp; SolSec's role as the "watchdog" of the Solomani Cause<BR>was probably needed from early on.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:59:35 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: regional accents<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Similarly, regional accents in the US are gravitating toward the<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; California norm which dominates television.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 20 years ago this dialect was called "General American" and has nothing to do<BR>&gt; with California.<BR><BR>For the last 15 years or more, it has been called<BR>"Mid-Atlantic Standard".&nbsp; It's what television<BR>broadcasters are trained in whether they are<BR>Texan (Dan Rather) or Canadian (Peter Jennings).<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:53:04 -0800<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I just had the interesting experience of being taken to a restaurant in<BR>&gt; the Koreatown section of Los Angeles by some Korean friends.&nbsp; The menus<BR>&gt; made a stab at offering English selections, but they were basically<BR>&gt; phonetic renderings of the Korean dish names, which I don't know.&nbsp; And the<BR>&gt; staff were monolingual Korean.&nbsp; I had to let my friends order, ask for<BR>&gt; drink refills, all that stuff.&nbsp; In the middle of LA.&nbsp; It was intriguing.<BR><BR>An equally strange story from my past. Many years ago, I decided to learn to<BR>read enough Chinese to figure out the menus in Chinese restaurants. After<BR>spending a good part of a year getting proficient at reading and writing<BR>Chinese characters with the help of a co-worker who was a native speaker of<BR>Cantonese, I tried my new skill (Chinese characters-0?) out in a few<BR>restaurants. I quickly found that many restaurant workers could _speak_<BR>Chinese but not _read_ or _write_ it!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:06:30 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>Luther Martin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; But English is the first *world-wide* lingua franca, and already has<BR>&gt; &gt; enormous cultural momentum behind it.&nbsp; I can't imagine a scenario where<BR>&gt; &gt; this momentum could be averted.&nbsp; This may just be a failure of imagination<BR>&gt; &gt; on my part, of course. :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There is a recent book, "A History of Language," by Steven Roger Fischer<BR>&gt; which discusses the future of English and other languages on Earth. Fischer<BR>&gt; is a linguistic heavyweight, so this is not just the raving of a TML loonie<BR>&gt; (i.e., me). Fischer claims that it almost certain that only three languages<BR>&gt; will survive the next 300 years: Mandarin Chinese, Spanish, and English. Of<BR>&gt; these, he predicts that by as early as the late twenty-fourth century,<BR>&gt; English may be the only one left. For more details, read the book.<BR><BR>Ah, but there may well be a Balrog in the woodpile on this.&nbsp; Having not<BR>read the book in question, I suspect that Fischer's thesis is based on<BR>the premise that humaniti will continue to be limited to this planet (or<BR>at least this system).&nbsp; Should we discover jump drive (or an equivalent)<BR>before the various other languages are extinguished by the "Big Three"<BR>of Chinese, Spanish, and English, a Terran neo-neocolonialism could<BR>serve to preserve minority languages beyond their projected Terra-only<BR>lifetime.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:07:12 EST<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Traveller Reprint 3 The Adventures<BR><BR>FFE 003 was shipped to distributors mid last week. It should be in stores <BR>soon.<BR><BR>Marc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:56:59 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: What Sports Survived?<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Steve wrote:<BR>&gt;Eneri Woods has his own brand of<BR>&gt;tailored vacc suits, designed so that they don't effect your<BR>&gt;swing.<BR><BR>You mean of course "Tree Lion" Woods, the famous Answerin golfer, don't you?<BR><BR>;-)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:16:43 EST<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress?<BR><BR>Many works would die natural deaths just because they don't appeal to the <BR>tastes of the masses. I'm sure lots of works would not be suppressed; in fact <BR>many would be available... but on a "list" (and monitored and reported to the <BR>appropriate authorities).<BR><BR>People without the proper respect for authority might read some of the stuff, <BR>but they also then get shunted into dead-end jobs and have black marks on <BR>their records.<BR><BR>If you knew something was considered subversive, and you knew that reading it <BR>would have a bad effect on your life in society, would you read it? What if <BR>the material was un-entertaining? or archaic? or hard to understand? Would <BR>you read it?<BR><BR>What if most of society condsidered it "unacceptable?" Child pornography? The <BR>thoughts of Mao? <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:42:36 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:16:10 -0700<BR>&gt; From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Why was the Long Night long and the Short Nap short<BR>&gt; &gt; Interstellar society did not really start to recover until jump space<BR>&gt; &gt; got over whatever the problem was, and misjump chances went back to<BR>&gt; &gt; normal.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ???&nbsp; Is this something solely from your campaign?&nbsp; If not, what<BR>&gt; supplement is it from, I've never heard anything about the nature of<BR>&gt; space changing during the Long Night.<BR><BR>Just my speculations as why things happened the way they did, as I dont see<BR>a 1500 year depression in interstellar trade as being reasonable.<BR><BR>These are some more random thoughts.<BR><BR>Increasing piracy and brigandige from the end of large interstellar fleets<BR>will have a role in darkening the Long Night , as worlds reduce their<BR>investment in new plant and technology to pay for a basically forced lift in<BR>their defense budgets to 10-15% of GWP.<BR><BR>However, a 'Warring States' period will see technology driven up as well, as<BR>small polities look for breakthroughs that will advantage their forces.<BR><BR>I also dont see how the 'Classical' explaination deals with the Dogs that<BR>Didnt Bark - the non-expansion by the Vargr beyond Corridor-Antares axis<BR>during those 17 centuries or so. I can see exactly why a large state would<BR>want to expand slowly, but the way I see Vargr, they should keep flowing<BR>until stopped by an organised state.<BR><BR>I guess with a little revisionism, I can see how the 'Bright Night' could<BR>explain this (series of small- to medium-sized states counter-raiding Vargr<BR>etc), but I think we need an extra factor to explain why the Long Night took<BR>so long.<BR><BR>Technology doesnt really do it for me - TL11 to TL12 is a pretty big<BR>breakpoint (jump-3, much smaller fusion plants, nuke dampers, meson screens,<BR>fusion plants using LHyd not Dee), but TL11 is enough to do a lot.<BR><BR>The big things were probably not technology but technique. The innovation of<BR>the late Sylean Federation/early 3I were the subordination of the megacorps<BR>and the state to the idea of planetary autonomy. Unlike the Statism of the<BR>Vilani Bureaux and the Military State of the Ramshackle Empire, the 3I didnt<BR>try to do anything beyond provide security for trade.<BR><BR>The price of this was the stagnation and underdevelopment of many worlds,<BR>but this did not appear as an issue at the time.<BR><BR>Of course, it did have the IISS and the IN to provide internal security when<BR>neccessary.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:54:40 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>absolutely.&nbsp; Eugenics and active genetic alteration.&nbsp; Alteration outside the<BR>T-Norm human (i.e. Solomani Norm) would be actively-violently discouraged).<BR>This difference in opinion (ove the acceptability of eugenics) might have<BR>been a major rason for the Solomani drive to disunion with the 3I.<BR>Obviously they werent too compatible on some views, as the union only lasted<BR>about 250 years.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>To: "TML" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 9:33 PM<BR>Subject: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What is the list's opinion on the use of Eugenics within the Solomani<BR>&gt; Confederation or C3I.&nbsp; Given the Vilani predilection for avoiding change,<BR>&gt; does this carry over to the 3I?&nbsp; There is evidence of geneering amongst<BR>the<BR>&gt; Sollies.&nbsp; Why not a widespread campaign of 'positive eugenics'?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tod<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Tod L Glenn<BR>&gt; webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; http://www.solsec.org<BR>&gt; http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>&gt; http://travellerguns.com<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:29:51 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>Absolutely.&nbsp; Eugenics and active genetic alteration would be actively<BR>practiced by at least some components of the SolCon.&nbsp; Alteration outside the<BR>T-Norm human (i.e. Solomani Norm) would be actively-even violently<BR>discouraged.<BR>Development would tend toward "perfecting" the human form, which would begin<BR>with eliminating genetic disorders, then improving internal fucntion.<BR>Elimination of undesirable attributes such as aging and obesity factors and<BR>enhancing developmental tability would produce a longer lived, more<BR>attractive subset of humanity over long periods of time.&nbsp; These results<BR>could be both through selective breeding (voluntray or involuntary) or<BR>in-situ modification of individual genetic codes.<BR><BR>Perhaps there would be laws on some worlds/polities equiring individuals to<BR>meet certain genetic quality minima prior to procreation.&nbsp; On affluent<BR>worlds, therse "modifications" might be free. Going beyond the minima might<BR>be more expensive.&nbsp; I would think that the SolCon culture would discourage<BR>openly deviating from the aesthetic human norm (as determined by either the<BR>party elite or the Computer AI policy advisors of the various high tech<BR>worlds).<BR><BR>This wouldn't prevent abberance from arising in isolated cases, but the<BR>fundamental definition of "humanity" or "The Perfect Solomani Norm" might be<BR>determined by reference to a certain genetic standard.&nbsp; So atrocities such<BR>as "furries" and exterme-modified humans might be feasible, by discouraged<BR>by SolCon society in the extreme.<BR><BR>Obviously, this represents a significant difference in opinion with the 3I.<BR>The acceptability (or lack thereof) of eugenics might have been a major<BR>reasons for the Solomani drive to disunion with the 3I.&nbsp; Obviously they<BR>werent too compatible on some views, as the union only lasted about 250<BR>years.<BR><BR>Assumptions...<BR><BR>1) The assumptions that I am making here are that the core worlds of the<BR>SolSphere (Terra, Home, etc...) were 1-3 TL's more advanced than the 3I in<BR>"introspective" technologies (medical, computer, environmental, light<BR>weapons) when Sol was reabsorbed along with the OEU/TMC.<BR><BR>2) The OEU/TMC Core Worlds slightly lagged the 3I in extrospective<BR>technologies (heavy weapons, starships, power generation perhaps...) by<BR>between 1-3 TLs, but probably only 1.&nbsp; This isn't explicitly addressed by<BR>canon, so I think we have some room to play here.<BR><BR>3) The Sollies eventually achieved rough parity with the rest of the 3I in<BR>these lagging areas and saw their avant-garde tech adopted in various<BR>regions throughout the 3I, which began to close the gap somewhat.&nbsp; By the<BR>SRW, the SolSphere's still maintained a decisive lead by&nbsp; 1-3 TLs in<BR>"intro-tech" and had achieved rough parity or even industrial superiority in<BR>"extro-tech" levels.&nbsp; However, the difference was insignificant and the<BR>overall TL of the SolSphere worlds was below that of the 3I in these areas.<BR><BR>4) Ultimately, the SolCon had insufficient industrial resources to counter<BR>the massive 3I juggernaught and as a result lost its major industrial<BR>centers (naturally concentrated toward the 3I side of the SolSphere.<BR><BR>5) This had the effect of lowering the overall SolCon TL to below that of<BR>the 3I.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3237<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye01.mx.aol.com (rly-ye01.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.198]) by air-ye03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.20) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:36:13 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:35:46 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA43366;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:34:48 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:34:40 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA43326<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:34:40 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:34:40 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010300434.XAA43326@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3237<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 30 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3238<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: regional accents<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: regional accents<BR>Re: Traveller Reprint 3 The Adventures<BR>RE: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>RE: TL13 AT request<BR>Chinese (was Linguistic survival)<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: regional accents<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:31:12 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: regional accents<BR><BR>I've heard teh "TV anchorperson" accent called "midwest standard" among<BR>other names.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:33:57 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>Great ideas!&nbsp; I like and will definitely add as "color" to MTU.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;IMTU: In Lunion, symphonic music is undergoing a revival.&nbsp; The Landing<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The hot thing in pop music is tekencheplic.&nbsp; In this style artists<BR>channel<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:11:07 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;There's no such thing as a pure language, which is why everyone laughs<BR>at<BR>&gt;the French attempt to keep French pure.&nbsp; Japanese has been very<BR>strongly<BR>&gt;influenced by Chinese, Portuguese, French, German, and now English.<BR><BR>Icelandic is supposed to be a pure language by modern standards.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:15:25 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: regional accents<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:34:52 EST<BR>&gt; From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Similarly, regional accents in the US are gravitating toward the<BR>&gt; &gt; California norm which dominates television.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 20 years ago this dialect was called "General American" and has nothing<BR>&gt; to do with California. In any case, I believe the current feeling among<BR>&gt; linguists is that accents/dialects are alive and well (at least in the<BR>&gt; US). I hear four in Austin on a regular basis . . . Not that I'm an<BR>&gt; expert in these matters, all I know is what I learned from my brother<BR>&gt; the actor. <BR><BR>Californian is closely related to midwest and prairie accents, but with a<BR>further flattening of all vowels toward 'uh' (the upside-down 'e' sound in<BR>linguistic phonetics, forget the official name).&nbsp; It became the archetypal<BR>Californian accent because a large percentage of our American settlers<BR>came from the midwest.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:55:57 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Reprint 3 The Adventures<BR><BR>&gt;From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Traveller Reprint 3 The Adventures<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;FFE 003 was shipped to distributors mid last week. It should be in stores soon.<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW, mail-ordering through your web-site maximizes your revenue, yes?<BR>I figure if I have to special-order something anyway, the money might as<BR>well go to where it will do the most good for (Classic) Traveller :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:30:26 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Charles R Hensley [mailto:hensley.cr@gte.net]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Icelandic is supposed to be a pure language by modern standards.<BR><BR>Yeah, but even it will have loan-words, especially for technical terms.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:31:48 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>On 29 Oct 2000, at 12:00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 01:12 AM 10/29/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;In a message dated 10/24/00 9:01:28 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>&gt; &gt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;For example, when addressing Norris, it is much easier to say "Lord Aledon"<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;instead of "Archduke of Deneb Norris"<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;how about just "Your Grace"...:-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You run into the problem soldiers face when trying to attract the attention of a<BR>&gt; single officer in a group.&nbsp; Just saying "Excuse me sir" will get everybody's<BR>&gt; attention, but "Excuse me, Captain Shoaf?" Will target it to the one officer<BR>&gt; involved. -- <BR><BR>And if you want the undivided attention of all senior NCOs and officers in <BR>sight just point at one of 'em and say "Hey You." This works better the lower <BR>your own rank.<BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:20:50 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:51:39 -0600<BR>&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>&gt;*note: Spanish is rarely encountered in either Missouri (my home state)<BR>&gt;or Louisiana (my current residence)*<BR><BR>[Side comment: you must live on the eastern side of Louisiana? There's a<BR>lot of Spanish influence in evidence near the Texas border, in areas that<BR>were formerly a Spanish colonial possession. I saw it fairly frequently<BR>around Alexandria and Fort Polk.]<BR><BR>&gt;What does this have to do with Traveller?&nbsp; Several things:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1.&nbsp; Even within the borders of the 3I, there will be times when having<BR>&gt;at least a rudimentary knowledge of a foreign language will be useful.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;2.&nbsp; One cannot assume that everyone speaks one's native language.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;3.&nbsp; Communication across linguistic lines does not require full fluency.<BR><BR>All true in the real world, as I can attest. War story time:<BR><BR>I'm a linguistic dabbler. I hate being completely helpless, so I try to<BR>obtain at least phrasebook-level grasp of the language wherever the Army<BR>sends me. Sometimes, that really comes in handy.<BR><BR>I was in Haiti for the first free elections after the removal of the<BR>military junta, and was sent to Port au Prince airport as American<BR>representative overseeing the distribution of the ballots (it was supposed<BR>to be a Haitian show, but we had printed the ballots and provided all the<BR>transportation and escorts). Due to errors in the way the voting districts<BR>were counted up and divided, there were problems with the way the ballots<BR>were printed and boxed. This is a much bigger deal than it sounds because<BR>most Haitians are illiterate: the ballots were printed with pictures of the<BR>candidates and their party emblems, from President down to lowest local<BR>official. If the districts were messed up, the local elections were going<BR>to be a disaster.<BR><BR>The Haitian election council (the BEC) was in an uproar, and ordered the<BR>ballot distribution operation closed down until they could decide what to<BR>do. We sat there for hours, waiting for word. Finally, at midnight, the<BR>Haitian linguists (who were all local contractors) went home -- their<BR>12-hour day was over. At 2 am, word came from the BEC to make the best of<BR>it and get the ballots moving any way we could. The Haitian electoral<BR>officials and the UN facilitators sat there looking at one another,<BR>wondering what to do next.<BR><BR>Finally, this old gentleman, who was the highest-ranking Haitian still<BR>onsite (most of the bigwigs had gone home hours ago), and I started<BR>dividing up the piles of ballot kits by hand. He didn't speak any English,<BR>and my Kreol wasn't worth mentioning. But we could both get by passably<BR>well in French, at least for place names and numbers of ballot kits. We<BR>took care of the contentious districts and let the others handle the rest<BR>as planned. The whole operation took about another four hours, and in the<BR>end the election was rated a success by the international observers there<BR>for the purpose. (I'm not claiming it wouldn't have happened otherwise, but<BR>it certainly would have been delayed a day waiting for the contract<BR>linguists.)<BR><BR>ObTrav 1: I have often thought that this "adventure" read like someone's<BR>idea of an Amber Zone. I'm too close to it to write it up well, I'm afraid.<BR><BR>ObTrav 2: Find out what languages your players speak, and then (if they<BR>enjoy such puzzles) put them in the situation of having to communicate in a<BR>language they possess only a smattering of. Even if it's not the "right"<BR>language for the setting, it gives the flavor of frustration involved.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:50:36 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Hmmm, Battlefield Earth eh? Did you know that John <BR>&gt; Travolta thinks it<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; has become a "cult hit" and is trying to raise funds for a <BR>&gt; sequel? Do<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; you think we should organise a collection to hire a hit <BR>&gt; man, just to<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; stop it?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Of *course* it's a "cult" hit. But I don't dare name the "cult" as<BR>&gt; &gt;that'll bring them down on us.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;But I will say that it starts with "sci" and ends with "ology".<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;--<BR>&gt; &gt;Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt; &gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; &gt;leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Oh Oh, now you've done it Leonard. You've almost used their <BR>&gt; name in direct<BR>&gt; violation of their iron clad patent, copyright and Trademark <BR>&gt; restrictions<BR>&gt; that their lawyers will certainly interpret as a TML first <BR>&gt; strike. No doubt<BR>&gt; we will all now be in litigation for the rest of our natural <BR>&gt; lives while<BR>&gt; they attempt to squeeze ever last cent out of all of our bank <BR>&gt; accounts as a<BR>&gt; lesson to any who would dare even speak their name.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>That's right, you don't mess with the Sciologists :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:52:57 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>&gt; From: Craig Berry (I think)<BR>&gt; &gt; But English is the first *world-wide* lingua franca, and already has<BR>&gt; &gt; enormous cultural momentum behind it.&nbsp; <BR><BR>For amusement, here is a bit of a report on the "anti-globalisation"<BR>protests against the IMF and World Bank meeting in Prague in September:<BR><BR>"At 9am we are in Peace Square. About 10,000 people are speaking all the<BR>languages of Europe at once. Turks, Greeks, Kurds, Spaniards and Basques<BR>are standing next to one another....<BR><BR>Everywhere there are groups of young people, speaking in every imaginable<BR>language from Hungarian to Basque. The language of international<BR>communication is, of course, the same as among the bankers: English."<BR><BR>(The guy who wrote this article was a Russian.)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:49:26 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>At 11:29 PM 10/29/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Assumptions...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1) The assumptions that I am making here are that the core worlds of the<BR>&gt;SolSphere (Terra, Home, etc...) were 1-3 TL's more advanced than the 3I in<BR>&gt;"introspective" technologies (medical, computer, environmental, light<BR>&gt;weapons) when Sol was reabsorbed along with the OEU/TMC.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;5) This had the effect of lowering the overall SolCon TL to below that of<BR>&gt;the 3I.<BR><BR>So in otherwords, the Solomani are akin to the Draka or Sauron, whereas the <BR>Imperium is closer to the West and Empire (respectively in Sterling's Draka <BR>series and Niven and Pournell's MiGE (includes pre stories in the War World <BR>series and The Gripping Hand)?&nbsp; This I can buy, though I think that it <BR>would be more of a blend between the two, with the major emphasis being <BR>from the Saurons.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:58:14 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TL13 AT request<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>&gt; Could you supply some specifications? Like Maximum <BR>&gt; mass/weight, range, armor penetration minimums,&nbsp; &nbsp; I don't <BR>&gt; recall the Z-80 MBT, I have a lot of Traveller <BR>&gt; Books/materials, if you could point the way so to speak. I <BR>&gt; will be using a G^3 spreadsheet that does rockets/guided <BR>&gt; missiles very well, and outputs them in MT/GT formats.<BR><BR>I think you've been pipped at the post by Ludowick (who sent me a<BR>design off-list).<BR><BR>However,&nbsp; the&nbsp; Z-80&nbsp; appears&nbsp; in&nbsp; 101&nbsp; Vehicles&nbsp; and&nbsp; (IIRC)&nbsp; the<BR>Rebellion Sourcebook.&nbsp; It is a TL14 grav tank with armour=40.&nbsp; In<BR>addition to this being the most&nbsp; likely&nbsp; target&nbsp; the&nbsp; only&nbsp; other<BR>requirements were TL13 and that it was to be used (transporatable<BR>and operable) by a 4-man infantry team.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:01:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Chinese (was Linguistic survival)<BR><BR>I remember reading somewhere that while there are several spoken<BR>Chinese languages, the written language is identical throughout greater<BR>China.&nbsp; For instance, someone speaking Mandarin would be able to write<BR>a letter that could be read by someone speaking one of the other<BR>Chinese tongues without having to be translated.<BR><BR>I don't know if something like this could be done using a phonetic<BR>alphabet as opposed to a pictographic one, but it might have some<BR>interesting repercussions for text messages in the 3I.&nbsp; For example,<BR>there might be hundreds of different dialects of English spoken<BR>throughout the universe, but they could all share a common writing<BR>system, making correspondence betwixt planets fairly simple.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:07:29 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>&gt;Seriously speaking, I do wonder how long the leveling pressures of US<BR>&gt;control of media will allow other languages to survive as living, pure<BR>&gt;languages.&nbsp; With English as the de facto international language of trade, <BR>&gt;net communication, diplomacy, science, and (most importantly)<BR>&gt;entertainment, how long before it's virtually everyone's first language?<BR><BR>It's difficult to see a plausible scenario that has Chinese, Spanish, Hindi, <BR>or Arabic going away any time soon. Either too many countries use them and <BR>can support each others' use of it, or one up-and-coming power that can hold <BR>their own against the United States does.<BR><BR>I'd extend that list to include Portuguese, French, Japanese and Russian as <BR>"likelies" as well, though demographic trends are moderately worrying for <BR>the latter two and the first isn't as widespread or powerfully-backed at <BR>"The Big Four".<BR><BR>The United States may be the hegemonic power right now, but these things <BR>change over time. It'll be surprising if the US is top dog for more than 200 <BR>more years, if history is any guide, and quite a few languages are likely to <BR>make it through if current conditions continue. In the case of Spanish, also <BR>consider that the United States itself is apparently becoming a bilingual <BR>nation with that language.<BR><BR>There's also the issue of machine translation. It may be borderline useless <BR>right now, but it's improving. In fifty or a hundred years we should have <BR>something that makes translation between any remaining languages fairly <BR>easy, and then the pressure towards a common language will ease off quite a <BR>bit.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:25:05 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: regional accents<BR><BR>&gt;(the upside-down 'e' sound in linguistic phonetics, forget the official <BR>&gt;name).<BR><BR>Schwa.<BR><BR>I didn't need to post this, but I just like saying "schwa". Schwa!<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:34:28 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt; (Post from Kurt Feltenberger)<BR><BR>You could definitely see it this way.&nbsp; But IMTU, I don't really think the<BR>Sollies are out to destroy or enslave anyone.&nbsp; They simply believe that<BR>while the Vilani are equal as human beings, they are handicapped in such a<BR>way that it is dangerous to allow them to lead all of humanity.&nbsp; They are<BR>too vulnerable to manipulation.<BR><BR>I am beginning to envision the SolCon as an insular "hi tech" society of<BR>hi-pop worlds/polities each of which enjoys its own liberties and freedoms,<BR>but the undertone is that you don't/cannot oppose the uber-State.&nbsp; Sort of<BR>like the 3I<BR>in a way, but with little in the way of noble hierarchy.&nbsp; This is more or<BR>less canonical from what I have read.<BR><BR>The Solomani in many cases (not all) represent the philosophy that humanity<BR>should be able to use its combined intellect to perfect itself.&nbsp; Disease and<BR>poverty should be eliminated and the human condition elevated for the good<BR>of all.&nbsp; Ideally, no one should be left behind, not even the Vilani, but<BR>perhaps the Vilani reject any overtures towards "modification" to a Solomani<BR>norm, eliminating those characteristics which the Solomani elite find most<BR>problematic.&nbsp; This is quite chilling from the Vilani standpoint.&nbsp; I wouldn't<BR>want someone to come along and say you can be a part o the crowd as long as<BR>you let me take away your curiosity."&nbsp; From the Vilani viewpoint, the<BR>Sollies would have them surrendur their innate conservativeness as well as<BR>their culture.&nbsp; Too much to ask.&nbsp; The Sollies, on the other hand, might see<BR>this as a rejection of any attempt on their part to improve the Vilani lot<BR>in life.&nbsp; Heck, the Sollies uplifted the Delph and some Simians, why<BR>shouldn't a kindred human race with a terrible "vulnerability" benefit also.<BR><BR>From the Sollie standpoint, the Vilani are like the people of a "third<BR>world" nation that refuses medical aid and cultural improvement from the<BR>west because it is counter to their culture and.&nbsp; I know that this sort of<BR>general thing didn't endear the folks here in the USA to the Somalis.&nbsp; Maybe<BR>we're a good model for the Sollies.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:10:17 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>&lt;Douglas Berry&gt;<BR>The hot thing in pop music is tekencheplic.&nbsp; In this style artists channel<BR>their EEGs into synthesizers, producing driving, rhythmic sound and light<BR>shows.&nbsp; With practise, the effect can be quite captivating.&nbsp; "Tekens" do a<BR>variety of things to alter their brain waves, from taking drugs to<BR>extremes<BR>like having sex while wired or inflicting pain to get a stronger response.<BR>&lt;/DB&gt;<BR><BR>Ooh, I like this.&nbsp; It has the advantage that it would draw the ire of<BR>"mainstream Imperial society" because it "smells of psionics".&nbsp; Perhaps<BR>some performers are thought to be psionic, or take psi drugs, all leading<BR>to parents trying to keep their kids away from the nasty stuff...<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:18:48 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>At 10:34 AM 10/30/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;snip&gt; (Post from Kurt Feltenberger)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You could definitely see it this way.&nbsp; But IMTU, I don't really think the<BR>&gt;Sollies are out to destroy or enslave anyone.&nbsp; They simply believe that<BR>&gt;while the Vilani are equal as human beings, they are handicapped in such a<BR>&gt;way that it is dangerous to allow them to lead all of humanity.&nbsp; They are<BR>&gt;too vulnerable to manipulation.<BR><BR>Regarding the Draka and Sauron comparisons:<BR><BR>I see the SolCon as more along the Sauron example than the Draka <BR>example.&nbsp; Not out to enslave anyone, but committed to action against an <BR>aristocratic government to bring local autonomy free from a central <BR>Imperial style government.<BR><BR>Interesting spin on the Solomani/Vilani issue.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; From the Sollie standpoint, the Vilani are like the people of a "third<BR>&gt;world" nation that refuses medical aid and cultural improvement from the<BR>&gt;west because it is counter to their culture and.&nbsp; I know that this sort of<BR>&gt;general thing didn't endear the folks here in the USA to the Somalis.&nbsp; Maybe<BR>&gt;we're a good model for the Sollies.<BR><BR>This is a good analogy, but I think that perhaps a better one would be both <BR>the advent of Europeans to the Americas, and then the Indian Wars of the <BR>19th century.&nbsp; Two strong cultures that clashed with one relegated to a <BR>second class status due to defeat but given reservations where their <BR>culture could still partially exist.<BR><BR>YMMV<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:43:03 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; The majority of artists/films/books listed have been modern/Anglo-<BR>&gt; American because that's what we know.&nbsp; Kiri knows different forms,<BR>&gt; as does Carlos, and Jens.&nbsp; I'm sure that if I sat in on one of<BR>&gt; their games, the Imperium would have a different feel.<BR><BR>That raises a question: what cultural 'feel'&nbsp; do&nbsp; people&nbsp; try&nbsp; to<BR>give the 3I ITTU?<BR><BR>IMTU I start with a non-American's view of America, add in a&nbsp; few<BR>Roman-esque and Star Wars elements (things&nbsp; like&nbsp; a&nbsp; Roman&nbsp; style<BR>salute, the ocasional noble on the bridge giving&nbsp; orders&nbsp; despite<BR>being outside the chain-of-command, etc), and have&nbsp; the&nbsp; bulk&nbsp; of<BR>personal names (for human characters) of east European origin (to<BR>give a slightly exotic flair).&nbsp; Then I&nbsp; interact&nbsp; this&nbsp; 'Imperial<BR>culture' with planetary ones as if the 3I were a UN force.<BR><BR>What does everyone else do?&nbsp; Do you play the 3I as&nbsp; America-writ-<BR>large, or try to make it different somehow?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Yanks in Space is in the eye of the beholder.&nbsp; I like grounding<BR>&gt; my campaigns and writings in something familiar, because then I <BR>&gt; don't have to spend endless hours explaining the social order of<BR>&gt; the Hierarchy of Gaboo.<BR><BR>Er, what is the "Hierarchy of Gaboo"?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:51:43 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; The majority of artists/films/books listed have been modern/Anglo-<BR>&gt; &gt; American because that's what we know.&nbsp; Kiri knows different forms,<BR>&gt; &gt; as does Carlos, and Jens.&nbsp; I'm sure that if I sat in on one of<BR>&gt; &gt; their games, the Imperium would have a different feel.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That raises a question: what cultural 'feel'&nbsp; do&nbsp; people&nbsp; try&nbsp; to<BR>&gt; give the 3I ITTU?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; IMTU I start with a non-American's view of America, add in a&nbsp; few<BR>&gt; Roman-esque and Star Wars elements (things&nbsp; like&nbsp; a&nbsp; Roman&nbsp; style<BR>&gt; salute, the ocasional noble on the bridge giving&nbsp; orders&nbsp; despite<BR>&gt; being outside the chain-of-command, etc), and have&nbsp; the&nbsp; bulk&nbsp; of<BR>&gt; personal names (for human characters) of east European origin (to<BR>&gt; give a slightly exotic flair).&nbsp; Then I&nbsp; interact&nbsp; this&nbsp; 'Imperial<BR>&gt; culture' with planetary ones as if the 3I were a UN force.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What does everyone else do?&nbsp; Do you play the 3I as&nbsp; America-writ-<BR>&gt; large, or try to make it different somehow?<BR><BR>Being a Brit, I admit that with my first character was tempted to play<BR>someone call St. John-Smythe or Fothering-Thomas, or something equally<BR>unlikely and psuedo-Limey. So I made my guy African. Not African-American,<BR>but Tanzanian. IMHO, he's the coolest character I've ever played.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:18:51 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>&gt; Perhaps there would be laws on some worlds/polities equiring individuals<BR>to<BR>&gt; meet certain genetic quality minima prior to procreation.&nbsp; On affluent<BR>&gt; worlds, therse "modifications" might be free. Going beyond the minima<BR>might<BR>&gt; be more expensive.&nbsp; I would think that the SolCon culture would discourage<BR>&gt; openly deviating from the aesthetic human norm (as determined by either<BR>the<BR>&gt; party elite or the Computer AI policy advisors of the various high tech<BR>&gt; worlds).<BR><BR>This makes sense particularly in light of population levels on the typical<BR>SolSon worlds.&nbsp; Population control is standard SciFi fodder, and if you are<BR>going to limit population, why not restrict procreation to the 'best and<BR>brightest', or at least insure that the next generation benefit from all<BR>that the genetic sciences have to offer.&nbsp; One needn't even rely on<BR>government compulsion.&nbsp; Societal pressures would probab;y be enough (with a<BR>little help from the SolSec proaganda machine).&nbsp; Don't you want your<BR>children to have all the advantages that science can provide?<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This wouldn't prevent abberance from arising in isolated cases, but the<BR>&gt; fundamental definition of "humanity" or "The Perfect Solomani Norm" might<BR>be<BR>&gt; determined by reference to a certain genetic standard.&nbsp; So atrocities such<BR>&gt; as "furries" and exterme-modified humans might be feasible, by discouraged<BR>&gt; by SolCon society in the extreme.<BR><BR>Agreed.<BR><BR>&gt; 2) The OEU/TMC Core Worlds slightly lagged the 3I in extrospective<BR>&gt; technologies (heavy weapons, starships, power generation perhaps...) by<BR>&gt; between 1-3 TLs, but probably only 1.&nbsp; This isn't explicitly addressed by<BR>&gt; canon, so I think we have some room to play here.<BR><BR>I've always wondered about this.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; After all, the Vilani are the<BR>non-curious.&nbsp; Why would technological advancement pace faster in the 3I.&nbsp; A<BR>culture of conservatism and a rigid aristocratic hierarchy doesn't seem like<BR>it would be conducive to technological advance compared to a society that<BR>almost revels in change, and where social status is determined by drive and<BR>ability.&nbsp; It always seemed to me that it was more probable that the<BR>technologically equivalent or slightly superior Solomani were defeated by<BR>internal squabbling and a resource rich Imperium ('victory goes to the big<BR>battalions').<BR><BR>Post rim war, as you say, I sure the 3I gobbled up the prime Solomani<BR>idustrial worlds, so a current tech disparity make sense.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:24:50 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>&gt; This is a good analogy, but I think that perhaps a better one would be<BR>both<BR>&gt; the advent of Europeans to the Americas, and then the Indian Wars of the<BR>&gt; 19th century.&nbsp; Two strong cultures that clashed with one relegated to a<BR>&gt; second class status due to defeat but given reservations where their<BR>&gt; culture could still partially exist.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I wouldn't take this analogy too far though. The Solomani didn't suffer from<BR>the same technological disparity as the Amerinds.&nbsp; I view the Solomani post<BR>rim war as more like Germany after WWI, complete with the 'stab in the back<BR>mentality'.&nbsp; This also servers to increase the power of organizations like<BR>SolSec, who can capitalize on this common feeling to pursue their agenda.<BR><BR>And with the 3I holding vast sections of the old SAR, don't expect a<BR>reprocement with the 3I anytime soon.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:23:58 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR><BR>I agree with Kiri and others that works from non-Western sources will most<BR>assuredly follow the Solomani into space. In my post on books that survived,<BR>I noted that I would stick to the English canon, as I'm too unfamiliar with<BR>any others to be able to speculate on what would survive 3500&nbsp; years from<BR>now. (And I included two non-English works anyway, the Divine Comedy and "A<BR>la recherche du temps perdu.")<BR><BR>I should have stuck a similar note in my music post. Sorry. Music from<BR>beyond the Western tradition will undoubtedly survive. That said, I think<BR>that Bach and Beethoven are as immortal now as Shakespeare, and popular in<BR>many places other than Europe and North America. Western Classical music is<BR>popular in Japan (well, at least as popular as it is in New York.) That was<BR>the basis of my making it the core of my music post, along with my feeling<BR>that most pop music has a brief lifetime. Who can name the ten most popular<BR>songs, off the top of their head, of 1925? 1945? And that's less than a<BR>century ago. Music that Bach wrote in the 18th century is still being<BR>performed, however.<BR><BR>As to the question of languages surviving, as Loren noted, linguists tell us<BR>that the number of dialects remain as great as ever. I suppose that's true,<BR>although it seems to me that they are flattening out--the classic Manhattan<BR>accent ("Toity-toid and Toid") is gone, along with the old Brooklyn ("oi"<BR>for "er" and vice versa) accent.<BR><BR>Personally, I wonder what effect massive literacy and sound recordings are<BR>going to have on language. Consider the changes in English from Chaucer<BR>(mid-1300s) to Shakespeare (early 1600s). Chaucer is intelligible, but<BR>usually only with footnoting or specific training in Middle English;<BR>Shakespeare, especially when performed, is usually completely<BR>understandable. Certainly, I think that if a modern English speaker went<BR>back to 1700, he'd have little problems with the English of the day--yet<BR>that's the same 300 year period between Chaucer and Shakespeare. That was<BR>just the effect of the published word; now that we also have sound<BR>recordings, I wonder if natural linguistic drift will become even more<BR>arrested.<BR><BR>Just some idle speculations....<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3238<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 30 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3239<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>OT slang query<BR>Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR>RE: OT slang query<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Media that survived ...<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>RE: OT slang query<BR>Re: IISS required reading<BR>Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR>RE: OT slang query<BR>Re: OT slang query<BR>Re: Media that survived ...<BR>RE: IISS required reading<BR>RE: IISS required reading<BR>RE: Media that survived ...<BR>RE: Media that survived ...<BR>Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR>RE: Media that survived ...<BR>RE: OT slang query<BR>RE: Media that survived ...<BR>Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR>Re: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:27:52 EST<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>IISS required movie viewing list:<BR><BR>1. E.T.<BR>2. Contact<BR>3. The Man who would be King<BR>4. Robinson Crusoe on Mars<BR>5. Alien<BR>6. Lord of the Flies<BR>7. Survivor<BR><BR><BR>Reading List<BR>1. Robinson Crusoe<BR>2. Mysterious Island<BR>3. Rendezvous with Rama (series)<BR>4. Lost World<BR><BR>Bryan<BR>(There are others, but can't recall them all right now. And then of course <BR>their are the INS requirements, plus MOJ requirements and......)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:32:36 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: OT slang query<BR><BR>This is OT but I need something clarified by an American:<BR><BR>I was watching a US TV show last night&nbsp; and&nbsp; a&nbsp; female&nbsp; character<BR>said that she and her boyfriend "Jones-ed"&nbsp; each&nbsp; other.&nbsp; (Or&nbsp; it<BR>sounded something like that.)&nbsp; I'm having difficulty&nbsp; keeping&nbsp; up<BR>with slang expresions.&nbsp; What does "Jones-ed" mean?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:38:06 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR><BR>&gt; Personally, I wonder what effect massive literacy and sound recordings are<BR>&gt; going to have on language. Consider the changes in English from Chaucer<BR>&gt; (mid-1300s) to Shakespeare (early 1600s). Chaucer is intelligible, but<BR>&gt; usually only with footnoting or specific training in Middle English;<BR>&gt; Shakespeare, especially when performed, is usually completely<BR>&gt; understandable. Certainly, I think that if a modern English speaker went<BR>&gt; back to 1700, he'd have little problems with the English of the day--yet<BR>&gt; that's the same 300 year period between Chaucer and Shakespeare. That was<BR>&gt; just the effect of the published word; now that we also have sound<BR>&gt; recordings, I wonder if natural linguistic drift will become even more<BR>&gt; arrested.<BR><BR>As has been mentioed before, I expect that there will develop a standard<BR>language based on media.&nbsp; However, I also expect that regional dialect and<BR>languages will florish, since communication in the 3I is more restricted<BR>than presently, and it is doubtfull that imported programming will have as<BR>great an impact.&nbsp; Also cultural attitudes will have an impact.&nbsp; Some planets<BR>will embrace the common language and culture.&nbsp; Others will stubbornly retain<BR>there own local customs and laguage, regardless ("vive la difference!").<BR>Doubtless some worlds will establish official organs of state to maintain<BR>the purity of the planetary language.<BR><BR>Given the size of the 3I, there room for just about every permutation.<BR><BR>Still, for some situations, a standard language will be mandated.&nbsp; English<BR>is used by air trafiic controllers everywhere.&nbsp; Galanglic is probably the<BR>standard for Starport Authority for the same reason.&nbsp; Once you dock, though,<BR>you are on you own.&nbsp; Good thing you bought that 20Cr poket translator.<BR>Although the merchant you're dealing with is confused when you ask him if<BR>"his uncle is spiced purple".<BR><BR>How many adventure are born out of a bad translation of a cultural faux pas?<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:34:04 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT slang query<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is OT but I need something clarified by an American:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was watching a US TV show last night&nbsp; and&nbsp; a&nbsp; female&nbsp; character<BR>&gt; said that she and her boyfriend "Jones-ed"&nbsp; each&nbsp; other.&nbsp; (Or&nbsp; it<BR>&gt; sounded something like that.)&nbsp; I'm having difficulty&nbsp; keeping&nbsp; up<BR>&gt; with slang expresions.&nbsp; What does "Jones-ed" mean?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&lt;smirk&gt;<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:36:58 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;My copy of 'The Canterbury Tales' is untranslated, and not really all that<BR>&gt;hard to comprehend.&nbsp; I've also got untranslated copies of 'Sir Gawain and<BR>[deletion]<BR>&gt;are still readable.&nbsp; There was even theoretically a class at my college<BR>&gt;where they read poetry in the original Anglo-Saxon, but I know of no one<BR>who<BR>&gt;ever took it, and since that professor has since retired I doubt that class<BR>&gt;is offered anymore.<BR><BR>I took Old English and the Beowulf colloquium in college (Swarthmore College<BR>in 1978 (I graduated in 1981)); where did you go and when?).&nbsp; Old English<BR>(ca. 900 AD) is a completely different language from modern English.&nbsp; The<BR>grammar is heavily influenced by Latin, with five case endings for nouns and<BR>verbs conjugated through six persons in each of several tenses.&nbsp; There are<BR>few auxiliary verbs.&nbsp; Adjectives and articles are inflected to agree in<BR>number, gender, and case with nouns.&nbsp; Vocubulary overlap with modern English<BR>is about 20%-30% (less than modern French and modern English).<BR><BR>During the next five hundred years, between Beowulf and the Canterbury<BR>Tales, the French-speaking Normans conquered England and French became the<BR>language of the ruling class.&nbsp; The ordinary people used Old English, but<BR>simplified it substantially (and irregularly).&nbsp; Spelling went to hell, of<BR>course, because the poor people using English were illiterate.&nbsp; (Old English<BR>was almost perfectly phonetic.)<BR><BR>That is a change that occurred over only 500 years; over the next 3,000<BR>years, there will be countervailing influences of natural grammatical change<BR>on the one hand and technological tendencies to standardize language on the<BR>other (specifically telecommunications and audiovisual recordation).<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:49:16 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>Okay, we've covered 2D films, books, sports ...&nbsp; Not&nbsp; exactly&nbsp; 2D<BR>*film* but a couple of 20th century limited-run series&nbsp; that,&nbsp; if<BR>they&nbsp; survived,&nbsp; would&nbsp; probably&nbsp; feature&nbsp; highly&nbsp; in&nbsp; a&nbsp; College<BR>curriculum:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; The Prisoner (origin=UK, length=17x50min)<BR>2.&nbsp; Neon Genesis Evangelion (origin=Japan, length=26x30min)<BR><BR>(These don't represent my alltime fav shows, or anything.&nbsp; But&nbsp; I<BR>think they would be of most interest to academics.)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:50:58 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>At 09:24 AM 10/30/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; This is a good analogy, but I think that perhaps a better one would be<BR>&gt;both<BR>&gt; &gt; the advent of Europeans to the Americas, and then the Indian Wars of the<BR>&gt; &gt; 19th century.&nbsp; Two strong cultures that clashed with one relegated to a<BR>&gt; &gt; second class status due to defeat but given reservations where their<BR>&gt; &gt; culture could still partially exist.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I wouldn't take this analogy too far though. The Solomani didn't suffer from<BR>&gt;the same technological disparity as the Amerinds.&nbsp; I view the Solomani post<BR>&gt;rim war as more like Germany after WWI, complete with the 'stab in the back<BR>&gt;mentality'.&nbsp; This also servers to increase the power of organizations like<BR>&gt;SolSec, who can capitalize on this common feeling to pursue their agenda.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And with the 3I holding vast sections of the old SAR, don't expect a<BR>&gt;reprocement with the 3I anytime soon.<BR><BR>I should have elaborated on this before, but I was alluding to the <BR>Interstellar Wars with respect to the Solomani/Vilani issue.&nbsp; Granted, <BR>there was a near technological parity, but the end result was much the same <BR>as the Indian War phase of United States history.<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:49:59 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT slang query<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 30 October 2000 17:33<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: OT slang query<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is OT but I need something clarified by an American:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was watching a US TV show last night&nbsp; and&nbsp; a&nbsp; female&nbsp; character<BR>&gt; said that she and her boyfriend "Jones-ed"&nbsp; each&nbsp; other.&nbsp; (Or&nbsp; it<BR>&gt; sounded something like that.)&nbsp; I'm having difficulty&nbsp; keeping&nbsp; up<BR>&gt; with slang expresions.&nbsp; What does "Jones-ed" mean?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>A quick Internet search reveals 9 of of 10 slang websites that expressed a<BR>preferance defined 'Jones' as 'a craving or addiction'. Hmm.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:53:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Bernie McGeehan &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: IISS required reading<BR><BR>I would add "The Mote In God's Eye" to the reading<BR>list, as well as "Ringworld"/almost all of Niven's<BR>Known Space, and Pournelle's Future History, "Mote" as<BR>well as "A Spaceship for the King" (AKA: King David's<BR>Spaceship) and the John Christian Falkenburg<BR>(spelling?) books, and the H. Beam Piper's Future<BR>History, and A. Bertram Chandler's Rim books (cant<BR>think of any titles right this second, but it should<BR>provide good hunting to test alibris and e-bay).<BR>- --- Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Reading List<BR>&gt; 1. Robinson Crusoe<BR>&gt; 2. Mysterious Island<BR>&gt; 3. Rendezvous with Rama (series)<BR>&gt; 4. Lost World<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Bryan<BR>&gt; (There are others, but can't recall them all right<BR>&gt; now. And then of course <BR>&gt; their are the INS requirements, plus MOJ<BR>&gt; requirements and......)<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>"I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art."&nbsp; &nbsp; me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:54:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, VonRammen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I should have stuck a similar note in my music post. Sorry. Music from<BR>&gt; beyond the Western tradition will undoubtedly survive. That said, I<BR>&gt; think that Bach and Beethoven are as immortal now as Shakespeare, and<BR>&gt; popular in many places other than Europe and North America. Western<BR>&gt; Classical music is popular in Japan (well, at least as popular as it<BR>&gt; is in New York.) That was the basis of my making it the core of my<BR>&gt; music post, along with my feeling that most pop music has a brief<BR>&gt; lifetime. Who can name the ten most popular songs, off the top of<BR>&gt; their head, of 1925? 1945? And that's less than a century ago. Music<BR>&gt; that Bach wrote in the 18th century is still being performed, however.<BR>&gt; <BR>Although I really hate classical music, I can't deny it's still around.<BR><BR>I don't like Elvis either, but I'm pretty sure he'll still be around.&nbsp; I<BR>can't name his top ten but I know plenty of people exist who can name<BR>every song he ever did.&nbsp; And the Beatles.&nbsp; And the Stones.&nbsp; You may not<BR>know the names of the Greatest Hits of 1945 but you probably do know who<BR>Duke Ellington is.&nbsp; And I'm willing to bet most people who go to classical<BR>music concerts don't know every piece all that well either-- there are the<BR>aficionados, but there are also the guys who think taking a girl to a<BR>classical show makes them look cultured, and people taking their kids to<BR>see these shows for educational reasons, etc.<BR><BR>Ozaki Yutaka's the same, although I actually AM one of his obsessed fans<BR>(though I'm not among that subset of his obsessed fans that believes he's<BR>living secretly in New York, or that the Japanese government bumped him<BR>off because his music encouraged rebellion-- Ozaki fandom equals Elvis<BR>fandom in the looniness factor easily... I once had a man track me down<BR>and offer to leave his wife for me over a post I'd made on an Ozaki<BR>BBS... because he believed he'd found the woman who truly understood<BR>Ozaki, and hence would understand him...)<BR><BR>So I really don't think classical music is innately more survivable than<BR>pop.&nbsp; Classical music is nothing more than the most popular music of<BR>earlier eras.&nbsp; There are plenty of old composers from those eras that the<BR>average person doesn't know (most of whom I would rather hear than<BR>Beethoven, ick-- I used to live with a classical musician and if forced to<BR>listen to classical music I always prefer the obscure ones!), but the ones<BR>that survived were as popular in their time as Elvis and Ozaki were in the<BR>last century.<BR><BR>My guess is that Ozaki and Elvis and the Beatles and Bach and Beethoven<BR>will all still be around and that people will hear them in school if they <BR>don't hear them anywhere else.<BR><BR>And that more obscure composers from the 20th c than from the 18th c or<BR>earlier c's will survive, simply because we have better data storage.<BR><BR>Although, realistically, we are talking about an amount of time passing<BR>that is longer than what we conceive of as history today-- most people<BR>know nothing about anything that happened prior to say, 2000 BCE.&nbsp; Have<BR>you ever heard the greatest hits of the Sumerian Empire?<BR><BR>Me neither.&nbsp; But we DO have better data storage, so something is likely to<BR>survive... and it is very likely to be that which is most popular, simply<BR>because more copies were made.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:55:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT slang query<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; This is OT but I need something clarified by an American:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I was watching a US TV show last night&nbsp; and&nbsp; a&nbsp; female&nbsp; character<BR>&gt; &gt; said that she and her boyfriend "Jones-ed"&nbsp; each&nbsp; other.&nbsp; (Or&nbsp; it<BR>&gt; &gt; sounded something like that.)&nbsp; I'm having difficulty&nbsp; keeping&nbsp; up<BR>&gt; &gt; with slang expresions.&nbsp; What does "Jones-ed" mean?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;smirk&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>A "jones" is an addiction.&nbsp; You can also "jones" for a person.&nbsp; Hiroshi<BR>and I broke up in March and I still jones for him sometimes.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:59:26 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT slang query<BR><BR>&gt;I was watching a US TV show last night&nbsp; and&nbsp; a&nbsp; female&nbsp; character<BR>&gt;said that she and her boyfriend "Jones-ed"&nbsp; each&nbsp; other.&nbsp; (Or&nbsp; it<BR>&gt;sounded something like that.)&nbsp; I'm having difficulty&nbsp; keeping&nbsp; up<BR>&gt;with slang expresions.&nbsp; What does "Jones-ed" mean?<BR><BR>It's not very modern, became truly popular back in the sixties but is older <BR>than that, and has recently made a comeback in a slightly modified way. In <BR>modern parlance it normally means "craving for", in an ironic way. "I've got <BR>a jones/I'm jonesing for some pizza."<BR><BR>It was originally 1930s jazz slang for marijuana smoking, I do b'lieve.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:02:23 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>"What's that you're watching Jamison?"<BR>"It's an old Solomani 2D vidflick, sir: Star Trek. A couple of thousand<BR>years old."<BR>"What's that he's waving?"<BR>"It's a hand phaser, sir."<BR>(Repeat with mounting incredulity for all Star Trek's "24th Century" technology.)<BR><BR>The Prisoner is brilliant. SolSec probably have a Village on a quiet<BR>garden world somewhere:<BR><BR>"Where am I?"<BR>"You are on The Planet."<BR>"What do you want?"<BR>"Information. Why did you resign from SolSec?"<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Okay, we've covered 2D films, books, sports ...&nbsp; Not&nbsp; exactly&nbsp; 2D<BR>&gt; *film* but a couple of 20th century limited-run series&nbsp; that,&nbsp; if<BR>&gt; they&nbsp; survived,&nbsp; would&nbsp; probably&nbsp; feature&nbsp; highly&nbsp; in&nbsp; a&nbsp; College<BR>&gt; curriculum:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1.&nbsp; The Prisoner (origin=UK, length=17x50min)<BR>&gt; 2.&nbsp; Neon Genesis Evangelion (origin=Japan, length=26x30min)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/&nbsp;&nbsp; H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:03:38 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: IISS required reading<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I would add "The Mote In God's Eye" to the reading<BR>&gt; list, as well as "Ringworld"/almost all of Niven's<BR>&gt; Known Space, and Pournelle's Future History, "Mote" as<BR>&gt; well as "A Spaceship for the King" (AKA: King David's<BR>&gt; Spaceship) and the John Christian Falkenburg<BR>&gt; (spelling?) books, and the H. Beam Piper's Future<BR>&gt; History, and A. Bertram Chandler's Rim books (cant<BR>&gt; think of any titles right this second, but it should<BR>&gt; provide good hunting to test alibris and e-bay).<BR><BR>http://www.bygone-books.demon.co.uk/search/index.html<BR><BR>Run by my good buddy Gordon! Plug plug <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:08:43 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: IISS required reading<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I would add "The Mote In God's Eye" to the reading<BR>&gt; &gt; list, as well as "Ringworld"/almost all of Niven's<BR>&gt; &gt; Known Space, and Pournelle's Future History, "Mote" as<BR>&gt; &gt; well as "A Spaceship for the King" (AKA: King David's<BR>&gt; &gt; Spaceship) and the John Christian Falkenburg<BR>&gt; &gt; (spelling?) books, and the H. Beam Piper's Future<BR>&gt; &gt; History, and A. Bertram Chandler's Rim books (cant<BR>&gt; &gt; think of any titles right this second, but it should<BR>&gt; &gt; provide good hunting to test alibris and e-bay).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.bygone-books.demon.co.uk/search/index.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Run by my good buddy Gordon! Plug plug <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Actually, a rather more useful link is:<BR>http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/EmailToAFriend?ph=3&amp;urlid=9290<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:12:11 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>Rob Myers wrote:<BR>&gt; The Prisoner is brilliant. SolSec probably have a Village on a<BR>&gt; quiet garden world somewhere:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Where am I?"<BR>&gt; "You are on The Planet."<BR>&gt; "What do you want?"<BR>&gt; "Information. Why did you resign from SolSec?"<BR><BR>And there was a GURPS:Prisoner book so you could do&nbsp; a&nbsp; crossover<BR>campaign.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:17:11 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Rob Myers wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; The Prisoner is brilliant. SolSec probably have a Village on a<BR>&gt; &gt; quiet garden world somewhere:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; "Where am I?"<BR>&gt; &gt; "You are on The Planet."<BR>&gt; &gt; "What do you want?"<BR>&gt; &gt; "Information. Why did you resign from SolSec?"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And there was a GURPS:Prisoner book so you could do&nbsp; a&nbsp; crossover<BR>&gt; campaign.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>If you're one of the 3 people on the planet who owns one. It's almost<BR>impossible to find.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:35:16 MST<BR>From: "sam draper" &lt;makhidrun@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>Another book:&nbsp; Voyage of the Space Beagle by A. E. van Vogt.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:36:59 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; And that more obscure composers from the 20th c than from the 18th c or<BR>&gt; earlier c's will survive, simply because we have better data storage.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Although, realistically, we are talking about an amount of time passing<BR>&gt; that is longer than what we conceive of as history today-- most people<BR>&gt; know nothing about anything that happened prior to say, 2000 BCE.&nbsp; Have<BR>&gt; you ever heard the greatest hits of the Sumerian Empire?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Me neither.&nbsp; But we DO have better data storage, so something is likely to<BR>&gt; survive... and it is very likely to be that which is most popular, simply<BR>&gt; because more copies were made.<BR><BR>Well, actually, some Sumerian tablets were recently recognized as being<BR>music notation, so we have some fragments of their music, and the<BR>potential to know more is more tablets turn out to be 'sheet music'.<BR><BR>Pedantic/<BR><BR>And Elvis, Ozaki and the Beatles aren't 'music from the last century' for<BR>another two months yet ;-P<BR><BR>/pedantic <BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:40:23 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; And there was a GURPS:Prisoner book so you could do&nbsp; a&nbsp; crossover<BR>&gt; &gt; campaign.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you're one of the 3 people on the planet who owns one. It's almost<BR>&gt; impossible to find.<BR><BR>&lt;mode=smug&gt;<BR><BR>Yup, got it!&nbsp; I think it was the first GURPS book I bought.<BR><BR>&lt;/mode&gt;<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:42:17 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT slang query<BR><BR>A 'Jones' is an addiction, craving or need.<BR><BR>"I got a basketball jones, a basketball jones, I got a basketball jones<BR>oooh oooh eee ohhh!"<BR><BR>If nothing else survives into the future, I hope "Big Bambu" does...<BR><BR>(my copy still has the paper, too...we used someone else's copy for that!&nbsp; <BR>;-) <BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:41:18 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; And there was a GURPS:Prisoner book so you could do&nbsp; a&nbsp; crossover<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; campaign.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; If you're one of the 3 people on the planet who owns one. <BR>&gt; It's almost<BR>&gt; &gt; impossible to find.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;mode=smug&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yup, got it!&nbsp; I think it was the first GURPS book I bought.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;/mode&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&lt;\envy&gt;<BR><BR>Huh!<BR><BR>&lt;/envy&gt;<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:40:03 -0500<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR><BR>Can anyone help this man? Please send replies to lkw@io.com<BR><BR>&gt;Subject: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I have recently obtained a print-map of the Hinterlands Sector, however the<BR>&gt;printout had no listing of what each alignment was, and while the alignment<BR>&gt;codes for the Imperium, Solomani Confederation and for Client states were<BR>&gt;easy to determine I am unsure as to what the rest of the codes are.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;What I am interested in are the names of the major political units and how<BR>&gt;they are aligned to the major powers (eg 3rd Imperium, Solomai Confederation<BR>&gt;&amp; Hive Federation), the units in the Hinterworlds are:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1. Ra<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;2. Ow<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;3. Ac<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;4. Cu<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;5. Gi<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;6. Lp<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This information will be of great use to me as my current campaign will be<BR>&gt;heading into this region shortly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yours<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Graham Donald<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:56:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman writes:<BR>&gt; Can anyone help this man? Please send replies to lkw@io.com<BR><BR>Per the galactic data files<BR>&gt; &gt;1. Ra<BR>Ral Ranta<BR>&gt; &gt;2. Ow<BR>Outcasts of the Whispering Sky<BR>&gt; &gt;3. Ac<BR>Anubian Trade Coalition<BR>&gt; &gt;4. Cu<BR>Cytrialin Unity<BR>&gt; &gt;5. Gi<BR>Gniivi<BR>&gt; &gt;6. Lp<BR>Council of Leh Perash<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3239<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 30 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3240<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>New Pic and Mini Movie<BR>Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR>How much culture will survive TLN?<BR>Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR>Keyboard kill<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>New PICs availalbe - more later.<BR>RE: New Pic and Mini Movie<BR>Development of an Imperium<BR>Amber Zone? (was Re: Linguistic survival)<BR>Re: How much culture will survive TLN?<BR>A Traveller Games Convention in April<BR>Re: Development of an Imperium<BR>Re: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:00:06 -0800<BR>From: "Mike Linsenmayer" &lt;mlinsenmayer@symantec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: New Pic and Mini Movie<BR><BR>Still working on my Traveller mini movie<BR><BR>Prologue:<BR>"This squadron of Imperial 400 Ton Patrol ships belonging to the 7th Tarsun<BR>Reserves was photographed while on patrol during last years raids by Aslan<BR>aggressors. "<BR><BR>http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-i.htm<BR><BR>A biger 2048x1536 can also be downloaded (2mb) there as well.<BR><BR>and a movie including a jump sequence, the last part is ....well needs to<BR>be redone. It is kinda graining cuz I compressed 2 minutes down to 2mb<BR><BR>You can down load it here:<BR><BR>http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/400tonpatrolmovie.zip<BR><BR><BR>- -Mike<BR><BR>mlinsenmayer@symantec.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:12:30 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Well, actually, some Sumerian tablets were recently recognized as being<BR>&gt; music notation, so we have some fragments of their music, and the<BR>&gt; potential to know more is more tablets turn out to be 'sheet music'.<BR>&gt; <BR>Way cool!<BR><BR>&gt; Pedantic/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And Elvis, Ozaki and the Beatles aren't 'music from the last century' for<BR>&gt; another two months yet ;-P<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; /pedantic <BR><BR>Ya know what I meant.&nbsp; They are all still very popular.&nbsp; As anyone who's<BR>been anywhere near Graceland, or the Ozaki Memorial in Shibuya, or the<BR>house of Mr. Komine in Shitamachi (the fella outside of whose house Ozaki<BR>was found right before he died, who gave up and started running an Ozaki<BR>museum and shrine because people were going to camp outside his place<BR>anyway....) can attest.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:35:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: How much culture will survive TLN?<BR><BR>In the midst of all this discussion about what will survive into the<BR>culture of the 3I, I have to ask:&nbsp; How much cultural/artistic material do<BR>you think will survive?&nbsp; It has been suggested that our magnetic/optical<BR>storage media will produce longer lasting records, but I wonder if this is<BR>true.&nbsp; They are actually less durable (physically) than stone tablets, so<BR>they won't survive as well if simply neglected.<BR><BR>The strength of modern storage methods is in their easy reproduceability. <BR>This means that there will be many copies of each item (song/show/etc.) <BR>and that if someone _wants_ to make new copies then things can be kept<BR>indefinately. But will anyone want to?&nbsp; <BR><BR>Cultural changes and shifts between now and the 3I will be pretty big. <BR>While it breaks my heart to think of some archivist looking at a copy of<BR>Beethoven's 9th and saying "Nah, skip it", it seems more than likely that<BR>there will be some cultural period where this will happen.&nbsp; Throw in a few<BR>periods of strife (TLN, whether really dark or just "dim" as recently<BR>discussed) and the number of items to survive seems likely to be low. <BR><BR>Also, it's not as easy as an unbroken series of copies.&nbsp; There will be<BR>data loss with each new copy.&nbsp; Thus, someone's going to have to regenerate<BR>the data, and that implies more effort/knowledge/care than just copying. <BR>OTOH, standardized automatic algorithms may be able to take care of this<BR>reasonably well, although they tend to "low pass" things after many<BR>copies. <BR><BR>Comments? Opinions?<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:14:06 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Although, realistically, we are talking about an amount of time passing<BR>&gt; that is longer than what we conceive of as history today-- most people<BR>&gt; know nothing about anything that happened prior to say, 2000 BCE.&nbsp; Have<BR>&gt; you ever heard the greatest hits of the Sumerian Empire?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Me neither.&nbsp; But we DO have better data storage, so something is likely <BR>&gt; to survive... and it is very likely to be that which is most popular,<BR>&gt; simply because more copies were made.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, however, recording techniques have finite lifespans.&nbsp; Even<BR>if a given recording technique remains, on average, in use for about FIVE<BR>HUNDRED YEARS (given the glacial pace of technological change in most of<BR>the "Traveller" universe, the notorious Vilani reluctance to accept new<BR>technology, and the inertia associated with the sheer size of the<BR>Imperium, this doesn't seem too unlikely), that means that any given<BR>recording will have to be transcribed from one medium to next about SEVEN<BR>TIMES to make it from "here and now" to the eve of the Rebellion...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:17 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;3.0.1.32.20001030072050.0069fbc8@mail.io.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Languages can indeed be fun.<BR><BR>I, like Christopher, am a linguistic dabbler and can 'get by' in a large <BR>number of languages. I'm bilingual in Welsh and English and fluent in <BR>French, all the rest are somewhat worse!<BR><BR>In Moscow once I had a long conversation with a Russian army officer in <BR>the Central Museum of the Soviet Armed Forces... in French. His English <BR>was considerably more basic than my Russian, and that's not good.<BR><BR>Of course the Welsh comes in handy... especially as I live in England. <BR>Never do you hear "He's speaking in a language you don't understand" <BR>during my games, I just let fly in Welsh. On one occasion when playing a <BR>character who spoke very little of whatever tongue was common to the rest <BR>of the party, I translated everything into Welsh and then back to English <BR>only leaving the Welsh sequence and doing literal translations of <BR>phrases... the only trouble was stopping afterwards :-)<BR><BR>And for TRAVELLER: You find - as that character of mine did - that being <BR>conversent with the written form of a language in such as technical <BR>manuals is by no means the same as actually being able to speak it!<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:22:42 -0600<BR>From: Stormhound &lt;stormhnd@fidnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Non-English/Western Works That Survived<BR><BR>"John P. Raynor" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Unfortunately, however, recording techniques have finite lifespans.&nbsp; Even<BR>&gt; if a given recording technique remains, on average, in use for about FIVE<BR>&gt; HUNDRED YEARS (given the glacial pace of technological change in most of<BR>&gt; the "Traveller" universe, the notorious Vilani reluctance to accept new<BR>&gt; technology, and the inertia associated with the sheer size of the<BR>&gt; Imperium, this doesn't seem too unlikely), that means that any given<BR>&gt; recording will have to be transcribed from one medium to next about SEVEN<BR>&gt; TIMES to make it from "here and now" to the eve of the Rebellion...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And let us not forget the joys of such transcription, which have<BR>historically included such interesting applications as the US government<BR>making microfiche images of punch cards in order to preserve the code.&nbsp; Of<BR>course, I'm sure nothing like that would ever happen in the bright-and-shiny<BR>stainless-steel future...<BR><BR>- --<BR>Stormhound<BR>DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:06:27<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Keyboard kill<BR><BR>This comes from the San Francisco Gate's Morning Fix, a round-up of the<BR>strange news stories of the day.<BR><BR>The editor always adds his own commentary to the links, and this one caught<BR>me with a mouth full of Nacho Doritos.<BR><BR><BR>**Ain't Movin' The Kibble**<BR>SF's Petopia.com lays off 60 percent of its staff, releases company animals<BR>back into the wild. "Fly, be free!" shouted one drunken Petopia exec,<BR>wearing a glittery kitten sweatshirt and bad makeup and hurling an Emperor<BR>penguin from the top of the building. "Oopsie."<BR>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2000/10/29/state1916EST0155.DTL<BR>&amp;nl=fix <BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp; <BR>gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>Alle preisen den Pinguinherrscher!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:25:30<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>At 04:43 PM 10/30/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Yanks in Space is in the eye of the beholder.&nbsp; I like grounding<BR>&gt;&gt; my campaigns and writings in something familiar, because then I <BR>&gt;&gt; don't have to spend endless hours explaining the social order of<BR>&gt;&gt; the Hierarchy of Gaboo.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Er, what is the "Hierarchy of Gaboo"?<BR><BR>Nonsense example.&nbsp; I just pulled a name out of my hat.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:30:13<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>At 09:17 PM 10/29/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Were I a GURPS player, I think that I would be _more_ annoyed if every<BR>&gt;worldbook for GURPS included several pages of C-I reprint, since this<BR>&gt;would reduce the number of pages dedicated to the subject at hand.&nbsp; I'd<BR>&gt;rather buy the durned book (which I have) than see the same material<BR>&gt;rehashed in worldbook after worldbook.<BR><BR>Had I been forced to reprint the complete description of every Advantage<BR>and Disadvantage from CI in Ground Forces, I would have lost at least three<BR>pages of text.<BR><BR>As it is, the only new thing in there is the modified disad Combat<BR>Paralysis (Battledress)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR><BR>Duugirashir Irebamenagiin&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:38:06<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>At 10:06 PM 10/29/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Ah, but there may well be a Balrog in the woodpile on this.&nbsp; Having not<BR>&gt;read the book in question, I suspect that Fischer's thesis is based on<BR>&gt;the premise that humaniti will continue to be limited to this planet (or<BR>&gt;at least this system).&nbsp; Should we discover jump drive (or an equivalent)<BR>&gt;before the various other languages are extinguished by the "Big Three"<BR>&gt;of Chinese, Spanish, and English, a Terran neo-neocolonialism could<BR>&gt;serve to preserve minority languages beyond their projected Terra-only<BR>&gt;lifetime.<BR><BR>Which is refelcted in the Solomani Confederation's large number of "ethnic"<BR>states.&nbsp; I've alwayus thought hat once we have FTL, every group with an ax<BR>to grind is going to take off.&nbsp; You'd have worlds settle by Basques,<BR>Ultra-Orthodox Jews, Stalinists, Nazis, Trekkies, Mormons, Kurds, etc.,<BR>etc., ad naseum.<BR><BR>Makes the Rim a bit more interesting, since you might find a planet filled<BR>with Hubbardites who are constantly fleecing each other with glee.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; )+(&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored with sex."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Fry, Futurama<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:48:53<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>At 11:10 AM 10/30/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&lt;Douglas Berry&gt;<BR>&gt;The hot thing in pop music is tekencheplic.&nbsp; In this style artists channel<BR>&gt;their EEGs into synthesizers, producing driving, rhythmic sound and light<BR>&gt;shows.&nbsp; With practise, the effect can be quite captivating.&nbsp; "Tekens" do a<BR>&gt;variety of things to alter their brain waves, from taking drugs to<BR>&gt;extremes like having sex while wired or inflicting pain to get a stronger <BR>&gt;response.<BR>&gt;&lt;/DB&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ooh, I like this.&nbsp; It has the advantage that it would draw the ire of<BR>&gt;"mainstream Imperial society" because it "smells of psionics".&nbsp; Perhaps<BR>&gt;some performers are thought to be psionic, or take psi drugs, all leading<BR>&gt;to parents trying to keep their kids away from the nasty stuff...<BR><BR>You read my mind &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>I based Tek on my experiences in San Francisco's punk scene in the late<BR>80s.&nbsp; Industrial/Techno was very experimental, and the punks jumped on that<BR>bandwagon so fast it hurt.&nbsp; Some of it bordered on petrformance art, like<BR>the guy who recited poetry through a synthesizer run by a friend, but<BR>mostly it was just *loud*.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:50:52 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>At 12:38 PM 10/30/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Which is refelcted in the Solomani Confederation's large number of "ethnic"<BR>&gt;states.&nbsp; I've alwayus thought hat once we have FTL, every group with an ax<BR>&gt;to grind is going to take off.&nbsp; You'd have worlds settle by Basques,<BR>&gt;Ultra-Orthodox Jews, Stalinists, Nazis, Trekkies, Mormons, Kurds, etc.,<BR>&gt;etc., ad naseum.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Makes the Rim a bit more interesting, since you might find a planet filled<BR>&gt;with Hubbardites who are constantly fleecing each other with glee.<BR><BR>Or those strange six pointed *star*ships... :-)<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:01:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: William Molendyk &lt;wmolendyk@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;Douglas Berry&gt;<BR>&gt; The hot thing in pop music is tekencheplic.&nbsp; In this style artists channel<BR>&gt; their EEGs into synthesizers, producing driving, rhythmic sound and light<BR>&gt; shows.&nbsp; With practise, the effect can be quite captivating.&nbsp; "Tekens" do a<BR>&gt; variety of things to alter their brain waves, from taking drugs to<BR>&gt; extremes<BR>&gt; like having sex while wired or inflicting pain to get a stronger response.<BR>&gt; &lt;/DB&gt;<BR><BR>And then there would be the tekencheplic equivilent of New Age music.&nbsp; The<BR>performer soaking in a warm bath, surrounded by aromatherapy candles, eating<BR>chocolate.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; William Molendyk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:09:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:36:58 -0800<BR>&gt; From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; During the next five hundred years, between Beowulf and the Canterbury<BR>&gt; Tales, the French-speaking Normans conquered England and French became<BR>&gt; the language of the ruling class.&nbsp; The ordinary people used Old English,<BR>&gt; but simplified it substantially (and irregularly).&nbsp; Spelling went to<BR>&gt; hell, of course, because the poor people using English were illiterate. <BR>&gt; (Old English was almost perfectly phonetic.) <BR><BR>Note that illiterate people have no impact on spelling. :)&nbsp; Most of<BR>English's current spelling woes result from two problems:<BR><BR>* Some groups of words preserve a spelling which quite accurately<BR>&nbsp; reflected their pronunciation at one moment in the evolution of the<BR>&nbsp; language, but the pronunciation has since shifted without the spelling<BR>&nbsp; being updated.&nbsp; Good examples are the 'igh' in 'night' and 'fright',<BR>&nbsp; which once had a gutteral sound before the 't' similar to the German<BR>&nbsp; cognates.&nbsp; (When Monty Python has the French taunting Arthur and his<BR>&nbsp; "silly English kuh-nig-uts", it's actually a very sophisticated joke.)<BR>&nbsp; Another good example are the uses of 'ea' as an equivalent for either<BR>&nbsp; 'ee' or 'ay'.&nbsp; This dates to the language's last great vowel shift, when<BR>&nbsp; a number of containing 'ay' sounds shifted to 'ee' sounds.&nbsp; Their used<BR>&nbsp; to be a word 'quean' which meant 'whore'.&nbsp; It dropped out of favor<BR>&nbsp; during this period. :)<BR><BR>* Other words simply had subtly different pronunciations in different<BR>&nbsp; regions, or several potentially accurate spellings.&nbsp; In this case, it<BR>&nbsp; was a matter of 'chance' (a mess of cultural factors) which spelling<BR>&nbsp; won out for each word, and hence there is little consistency in the<BR>&nbsp; resulting spellings.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:19:08<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>At 01:01 PM 10/30/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;And then there would be the tekencheplic equivilent of New Age music.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;performer soaking in a warm bath, surrounded by aromatherapy candles, eating<BR>&gt;chocolate.<BR><BR>Real Tekkers sneer.&nbsp; Though I have played with the idea of having one of<BR>the hottest recording Tekkers be a guy in a coma.&nbsp; Comatose folks often<BR>produce some amazing bursts of mental activity.<BR><BR>It would work like this:&nbsp; John gets smacked in a g-bus crash, and is in a<BR>coma.&nbsp; Parents can't pay the bills, so Big Recording Company makes a deal:<BR>We'll provide all the medical payments in return for exclusive rights to<BR>his output.<BR><BR>Plot hook: John has disappeared!&nbsp; The biggest sensation in recorded tek has<BR>vanished from his hospital bed, and the players are hired to find him.<BR><BR>1. John has died, and the company is covering it up, hoping to find a<BR>replacement (The Paul is Dead scenario)<BR><BR>2. John has recovered, but the corporation wants him to remain comatose.<BR>The doctors have assisted him in escaping.<BR><BR>3. John's parents have taken their son, disgusted at what he has become.<BR><BR>4. He has been taken by an obsessive fan.&nbsp; A rich, powerful obsessive fan.<BR><BR>5. John was actually psionic, and has been in telepathic contact with a<BR>local institute for months. (This explains why his EEGs produced such good<BR>sound) The PI has finally prepared a suitable facility for him to recover<BR>in, and John has teleported away.<BR><BR>6. John recovered spontaneously, and remembers everything that happened to<BR>him.&nbsp; He is a bit unhinged, and out for revenge.&nbsp; Did we mentioned that<BR>John used to be a Marine Commando?&nbsp; He'll lay low for a few weeks,<BR>regaining his strength, then start taking out those who exploited him.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:32:43 -0800<BR>From: "Mike Linsenmayer" &lt;mlinsenmayer@symantec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: New PICs availalbe - more later.<BR><BR>Still working on my Traveller mini movie<BR><BR>Prologue:<BR>"This squadron of Imperial 400 Ton Patrol ships belonging to the 7th Tarsun<BR>Reserves was photographed while on patrol during last years raids by Aslan<BR>aggressors. "<BR><BR>http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-i.htm<BR><BR>A biger 2048x1536 can also be downloaded (2mb) there as well.<BR><BR>and a movie including a jump sequence, the last part is ....well needs to<BR>be redone. It is kinda graining cuz I compressed 2 minutes down to 2mb<BR><BR>You can down load it here:<BR><BR>http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/400tonpatrolmovie.zip<BR><BR><BR>- -Mike<BR><BR>mlinsenmayer@symantec.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:12:59 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: New Pic and Mini Movie<BR><BR>Nice work as always Mike :)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Mike Linsenmayer<BR>Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:00 AM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: New Pic and Mini Movie<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Still working on my Traveller mini movie<BR><BR>Prologue:<BR>"This squadron of Imperial 400 Ton Patrol ships belonging to the 7th Tarsun<BR>Reserves was photographed while on patrol during last years raids by Aslan<BR>aggressors. "<BR><BR>http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-i.htm<BR><BR>A biger 2048x1536 can also be downloaded (2mb) there as well.<BR><BR>and a movie including a jump sequence, the last part is ....well needs to<BR>be redone. It is kinda graining cuz I compressed 2 minutes down to 2mb<BR><BR>You can down load it here:<BR><BR>http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/400tonpatrolmovie.zip<BR><BR><BR>- -Mike<BR><BR>mlinsenmayer@symantec.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:51:55 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>It's been made quite clear that one of the most important values of the<BR>Third Imperium is unfettered trade.&nbsp; Few if any other values are accorded<BR>anywhere near the importance of this one.<BR><BR>In Star Trek, one of the most important values is cultural non-interference<BR>- - the Prime Directive.&nbsp; One of the novels (Prime Directive, by Judith and<BR>Garfield Reeves-Stevens) defines the non-interference directive as applying<BR>to those cultures that have not achieved awareness of the interstellar<BR>community through their own efforts.<BR><BR>Suppose we build an Imperium on _both_ of those principles: The Imperium<BR>rules the space between the worlds, and mandates fair trade (i.e., no<BR>discriminatory tariffs), but limits membership to those worlds that show<BR>evidence of knowledge of the existence of the interstellar community, and<BR>red zones (and enforces the interdiction!) those which have not reached<BR>that level.<BR><BR>What would such an Imperium look like?<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:00:23 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Amber Zone? (was Re: Linguistic survival)<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:22:22 -0500 (EST), Christopher Thrash<BR>&lt;thrash@io.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;All true in the real world, as I can attest. War story time:<BR><BR>[etceterate Haitian election story]<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav 1: I have often thought that this "adventure" read like someone's<BR>&gt;idea of an Amber Zone. I'm too close to it to write it up well, I'm afraid.<BR><BR>Please write it up as best you can, and send it to me at<BR>freelancetraveller@yahoo.com.&nbsp; I'll look at it and make comments and<BR>suggestions, and we'll see if we can't ... er, thrash ... it into good<BR>condition and post it at Freelance Traveller.<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav 2: Find out what languages your players speak, and then (if they<BR>&gt;enjoy such puzzles) put them in the situation of having to communicate in a<BR>&gt;language they possess only a smattering of. Even if it's not the "right"<BR>&gt;language for the setting, it gives the flavor of frustration involved.<BR><BR>Another thing I like to do is a 'first contact' scenario - it's the party's<BR>job to establish communication with this previously unknown society.&nbsp; The<BR>language, of course, is unknown, though if the referee is in a good mood,<BR>one of the characters might think he recognizes some constructions or<BR>something.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:05:07 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: How much culture will survive TLN?<BR><BR>The Long Now Foundation, http://www.longnow.org/, has a project<BR>to undertake a library that can store data a long time (10,000<BR>years IIRC).&nbsp; (They gave a talk at the SETI Institute).&nbsp; The idea<BR>is to store data in a form that doesn't degrade and can be read<BR>in a form that will still be accessible in the event of a loss<BR>of technology.&nbsp; They chose engraving characters onto metal.&nbsp; The<BR>first line can be read with the naked eye and each line gets a little<BR>smaller until you down to a size that can be read with an ordinary<BR>microscope.&nbsp; My understanding is that the characters are also chosen<BR>to be easily OCRed.&nbsp; The first book they are doing is a part<BR>of the bible (genesis?) because it is the work that they can<BR>find that has been translated into the most languages possible<BR>(so it can be sort of rosetta stone for lost languages).<BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:08:23 -0000<BR>From: "Charles Nicholas Walker" &lt;cnw@globalnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: A Traveller Games Convention in April<BR><BR>Hi Just a quick Note<BR><BR>I AM RUNNING A TRAVELLER GAMES CONVENTION NEXT APRIL 28TH AND 29TH.<BR>IN HEBDEN BRIDGE IN WEST YORKSHIRE UK.<BR><BR>There is a mailing list set up if you are interested at <BR>TRAVELLERUK@EGROUPS.COM . <BR>Obv Trav.........do I need one?<BR><BR><BR>Nick.<BR><BR>Behold,&nbsp; his feet leave tracks in the sands of time,<BR>and Death walks at his left hand...<BR>UTUP.<BR>0609-A666A667-5-5-2<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:26:50 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>&gt;Suppose we build an Imperium on _both_ of those principles: The Imperium<BR>&gt;rules the space between the worlds, and mandates fair trade (i.e., no<BR>&gt;discriminatory tariffs), but limits membership to those worlds that show<BR>&gt;evidence of knowledge of the existence of the interstellar community, and<BR>&gt;red zones (and enforces the interdiction!) those which have not reached<BR>&gt;that level.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;What would such an Imperium look like?<BR><BR>First of all, the Prime Directive is a joke. It restricts the amount of good <BR>that can be done in that, if the society does not ask for help, none can be <BR>given. I would refer you to the episode of ST: Voyager where Tom is in the <BR>brig for trying to prevent a catastrophe that would lead to the destruction <BR>of a society in a water world. According to the Prime Directive, they crew <BR>was not allowed to help because the society, in its ignorance and <BR>stubborness was not willing to change its ways. Also, on ST: TNG, there was <BR>an episode in which Picard could have stopped the transport of an addictive <BR>medicine that was no longer needed. He didn't however, because the Prime <BR>Directive made it quite clear that it wasn't Star Fleet's problem. Now, <BR>while I strongly believe that we should not force anyone to do what's right, <BR>these two incidents were condemning an _entire species_ because their <BR>leaders were stupid. I'm that our Imperium wasn't as stupid as Roddenbury's. <BR>(Admit it: The Federation is more of an Empire than the Third Imperium is.)<BR><BR>As for the Imperium mandating fair trade: Never gonna happen. This would <BR>require _way_ too much involvement on the Imperium's part and would most <BR>likely be the first step toward becoming the Second Ziru Sirka.<BR><BR>If one were to construct a 3I based on free trade and a prime directive, it <BR>is my opinion that you would have something that simply wouldn't work. It <BR>would probably be similar in many ways to the Ziru Sirka of old, just with a <BR>few more freedoms.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:43:03 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>&gt;Suppose we build an Imperium on _both_ of those principles: The Imperium <BR>&gt;rules the space between the worlds, and mandates fair trade (i.e., no <BR>&gt;discriminatory tariffs), but limits membership to those worlds that show <BR>&gt;evidence of knowledge of the existence of the interstellar community, and <BR>&gt;red zones (and enforces the interdiction!) those which have not reached <BR>&gt;that level.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;What would such an Imperium look like?<BR><BR>The interesting things about this Imperium would be at the interface of the <BR>two ideals. How does a world "gain the necessary knowledge"? Do they have to <BR>have developed jump drive, or do they make it if they learn via radio <BR>signals received at their Arecibo-equivalent? Are there a few oddities that <BR>have done it via generation ship? What happens when a generation ship makes <BR>contact, but then will take five years to send a radio signal back? Do they <BR>have to sit in cold storage until their civilization discovers, via their <BR>message, that there's a galactic civilization?<BR><BR>If, instead, races can join after detecting radio signals how does this <BR>Imperium know that the world is ready? Infiltrators watching the news? How <BR>is this possible with the undoubtedly numerous races that bear no <BR>resemblance to current member races? What if an infiltrator has his cover <BR>blown, or a "UFO" crashes and it becomes obvious to a growing race that <BR>there's Someone Out There? Does that count as being aware of the galactic <BR>community?<BR><BR>How do they deal with races that don't want to be members? Races that <BR>develop jump drive, or even build radio telescopes, have to be relatively <BR>advanced civilizations,with needs and wants of their own. Non-joiners have <BR>to be common. Does the Imperium bomb them back into non-spacefaring status <BR>and clamp down on them until they change their minds? If so, there's got to <BR>be any number of races that are severely resentful and just joined to avoid <BR>destruction. Doesn't seem very stable.<BR><BR>If a race does join, what's effect on a world or solar system economy that <BR>suddenly gets integrated into a galaxy-sized trading area? What do they <BR>trade back, if anything?<BR><BR>What is the philosophical basis for their Prime Directive? It strikes me as <BR>pseudo-science to claim that a civilization is only "ready" -- whatever that <BR>is -- when it's space-faring.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3240<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 30 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3241<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: Development of an Imperium<BR>Re: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR>Re: Chinese (was Linguistic survival)<BR>RE: What Music Survived?<BR>RE: What Music Survived?<BR>RE: regional accents<BR>RE: What Music Survived?<BR>RE: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Regional Accents<BR>RE: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>RE: OT slang query<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>RE: What Music Survived?<BR>RE: regional accents<BR>RE: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: Development of an Imperium<BR>Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>FFE 003<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:00:27 -0500<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; I just had the interesting experience of being taken to a restaurant in<BR>&gt; the Koreatown section of Los Angeles by some Korean friends.&nbsp; The menus<BR>&gt; made a stab at offering English selections, but they were basically<BR>&gt; phonetic renderings of the Korean dish names, which I don't know.&nbsp; And the<BR>&gt; staff were monolingual Korean.&nbsp; I had to let my friends order, ask for<BR>&gt; drink refills, all that stuff.&nbsp; In the middle of LA.&nbsp; It was intriguing.<BR><BR>Oooff. That happens all over the place in Toronto. Then again, I think<BR>there's a pretty long history of 'immigrant ghettos' all over the place.<BR>I'm sure in the 20's there were a lot of places in New York City where<BR>if you didn't speak Italian, you couldn't be understood.<BR><BR>In Toronto we see an interesting public school phenomenon (back to<BR>ObTrav soon, I promise) - areas with high immigrant populations have<BR>schools where lots of kids don't speak English as their first language.<BR>Of course, with English as a required subject, this means that English<BR>classes are somewhat modified to fit the demographics. Which is fine,<BR>except it has a tendency to drive out kids who speak English as a <BR>primary language, as their families want more of a challenge. So,<BR>the school's percentage of ESL students goes up, etc, etc.<BR><BR>Another personal anecdote - I once rolled my car over in rural Quebec.<BR>(Out skiing). The garage owner who towed my car didn't speak any English.<BR>Fine, I speak some French, but after years of disuse my vocabulary was<BR>pretty thin. My friend remembered lots of French vocabulary from school<BR>(for whatever reason) but couldn't construct a grammatical French <BR>sentence to save his life. So I spoke and every 2 or 3 words had to stop<BR>to get him to translate specific words for me. I somehow managed to<BR>get my car home in the end...<BR><BR>ObTrav: Oh, who am I kidding. You figure it out.<BR><BR>Ethan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:49:07 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Suppose we build an Imperium on _both_ of those principles: The Imperium<BR>&gt; &gt;rules the space between the worlds, and mandates fair trade (i.e., no<BR>&gt; &gt;discriminatory tariffs), but limits membership to those worlds that show<BR>&gt; &gt;evidence of knowledge of the existence of the interstellar community, and<BR>&gt; &gt;red zones (and enforces the interdiction!) those which have not reached<BR>&gt; &gt;that level.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;What would such an Imperium look like?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; First of all, the Prime Directive is a joke. It restricts the amount of good<BR>&gt; that can be done in that, if the society does not ask for help, none can be<BR>&gt; given. I would refer you to the episode of ST: Voyager where Tom ...<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Hmmm, the writers of ST, might not be intentionally setting up conflicts<BR>with the PD in order to gain, saaaayyy, _dramatic conflict_ would<BR>they??? ;-)<BR><BR>Actually, it would be a rather schizophrenic (in the hackneyed sense of<BR>'split personality' rather than the real 'hears voices that tells them<BR>to wrap their heads in foil' sense) place. <BR><BR>Free trade is incompatible with the restrictions on access to new<BR>markets that would happen with the interdiction of low tech worlds<BR>(which these would have to be) You would have the 1I dichotomy of<BR>'Major' and 'Minor' races, with the more severe consequences that the<BR>'Minor' races wouldn't even be allowed into the playground.<BR><BR>There would be a LOT of covert 'sneaking a jump drive manual' and<BR>'crashing of scout ships' on these planets, in order that they be opened<BR>for trade.<BR><BR>There would also be an equally concerted effort to avoid these people<BR>getting hold of such powerful technology before they're equipped to<BR>handle it, not so much in the paternalistic ST way, but in the very<BR>realistic 'Barbarians with starships and nukes' way that Dominic Flandry<BR>has averted so many times in Poul Anderson's series.<BR><BR>It's also a period that wouldn't last very long, I would think.<BR>Eventually the pressures to exploit the lower tech planets and the<BR>potential profits would become far too lucrative. So long as the 'poor<BR>savages' cooperated, that is. I believe Gordon Dickson has written a<BR>time or two on this matter, as well ;-)<BR><BR>But it could be fun, the players could play MIB even!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:50:05 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR><BR>On 30 Oct 2000, at 13:40, Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Can anyone help this man? Please send replies to lkw@io.com<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I have recently obtained a print-map of the Hinterlands Sector, however the<BR>&gt; &gt;printout had no listing of what each alignment was, and while the alignment<BR>&gt; &gt;codes for the Imperium, Solomani Confederation and for Client states were easy<BR>&gt; &gt;to determine I am unsure as to what the rest of the codes are.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;What I am interested in are the names of the major political units and how they<BR>&gt; &gt;are aligned to the major powers (eg 3rd Imperium, Solomai Confederation &amp; Hive<BR>&gt; &gt;Federation), the units in the Hinterworlds are:<BR><BR>Now if I hadn't cunningly stored my Challenges in a Safe Place, I'd be able to <BR>help :(<BR><BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:06:23 -0600<BR>From: Charles McKnight &lt;cmcknight01@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Chinese (was Linguistic survival)<BR><BR>Gerry,<BR><BR>The two major "dialects" are Mandarin and Cantonese.&nbsp; There are many <BR>regional dialects as well.&nbsp; However, I think it was the Emperor Chin <BR>(China's first emperor) who standardized the written language.&nbsp; Indeed it <BR>is quite common for peoples to communicate by "writing" the characters on <BR>their hands when speaking to someone from a different area.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:17:10 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>Matt Bond wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt;&gt; From: Charles R Hensley [mailto:hensley.cr@gte.net]<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Icelandic is supposed to be a pure language by modern standards.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yeah, but even it will have loan-words, especially for technical terms.<BR><BR>Not yet, they are creating words to cover the new technology.&nbsp; But these<BR>words are getting pretty long.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:48:43 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote :<BR>&gt; Seriously speaking, I do wonder how long the leveling pressures of US<BR>&gt; control of media will allow other languages to survive as living, pure<BR>&gt; languages.&nbsp; With English as the de facto international language of trade,<BR>&gt; net communication, diplomacy, science, and (most importantly)<BR>&gt; entertainment, how long before it's virtually everyone's first language?<BR><BR>You'd have to get the _populations_ of India and China involved in world<BR>trade before that happens. English may be de facto for communication between<BR>races, but it's not the most spoken language.<BR><BR>Bear in mind that _Latin_ was the dominant language of the dominant culture<BR>at the time of the Roman Enmpire, and was used for cross race communication<BR>for many years after the dominant culture was gone, and is now just about<BR>forgotten.<BR><BR>&gt; A century or two at most, is my guess.<BR><BR>My guess is that we're just as likely to be using some other language for<BR>trade and inter-race communication in a couple of centuries. Ecven if it's<BR>still called "English" it will likely not be the language that exists now,<BR>just as most of what we today call English didn't exist in it's current form<BR>a couple of hundred years ago.<BR><BR>Reading "A Clockwork Orange" gives you some idea of what it might be like,<BR>reading original Chaucer, Bacon, or Pepys, would give a better idea, as<BR>change is accelerating, so 200 years from now would probably be equivalent<BR>to the sort of change that has occurred in English over the past 4-600<BR>years.<BR><BR>And that assumes that the US remains in charge. If, as is likely China<BR>and/or India become the dominant players in a hundred-odd years (Remember,<BR>the US was nowhere near being a dominant player a hunded years ago, and was<BR>in about the same sort of world power position as India is today) then<BR>English may no longer be the primary inter-race communication as well.<BR><BR>Just as a random data point, more videos are produced now in Hindustani than<BR>in English.<BR><BR>&gt; And particularly with the Vilani<BR>&gt; threat in the Trav timeline, which will tend to unify Terrans in the<BR>&gt; classic "us vs. them" way.&nbsp; Nothing like a common enemy to make you feel<BR>&gt; brotherly toward your allies, which will naturally lower cultural<BR>&gt; resistance to linguistic imperialism.<BR><BR>WWII didn't make the French any more keen on learning English, or the<BR>Russians, or the Greeks, or the Spanish, or the Finnish, or the Americans<BR>for that matter.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:55:57 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: regional accents<BR><BR>Steve Daniels wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Texan (Dan Rather) or Canadian (Peter Jennings).<BR><BR>Peter Jennings was born in New Zealand, and his mother, at least, still<BR>lives here.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:51:08 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;most of what we today call English didn't exist in it's current form<BR>&gt;a couple of hundred years ago.<BR><BR>You overstate your case. Books in English from the year 1800 are almost <BR>perfectly underdstandable. 1700 and even 1600 are fine too.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:23:41 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>Yes yes yes yes. :)<BR><BR>MOJ guys/gals would be 'asked' to read Stars My Destination by Bester also.<BR>(which, BTW has just been reprinted)<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR><BR>Another book:&nbsp; Voyage of the Space Beagle by A. E. van Vogt.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:13:00 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Jones, Dean<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; What does everyone else do?&nbsp; Do you play the 3I as&nbsp; America-writ-<BR>&gt; &gt; large, or try to make it different somehow?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Being a Brit, I admit that with my first character was tempted to play<BR>&gt; someone call St. John-Smythe or Fothering-Thomas, or something equally<BR>&gt; unlikely and psuedo-Limey. So I made my guy African. Not African-American,<BR>&gt; but Tanzanian. IMHO, he's the coolest character I've ever played.<BR><BR>I'm also British by birth, and my first Traveller character was a<BR>Scandinavian Scout,<BR>"Jag" Hansen, who had a confused heritage of bikies and vikings. My second<BR>was Negroid Moslem fighter pilot, Hashid Mohammed. It wasn't until my third<BR>character, that I indulged my British inclination and created the<BR>moustachioed Colonel Waverly Archibald Xerxes (W.A.X) Johnson.<BR><BR>Other than once playing a Marine top sergeant patterned on Clint Eastwoood's<BR>chacracter in "Heartbreak Ridge", I don't think I've ever specificfally<BR>played an "American" character in Traveller, or, in the games I've run, ever<BR>portrayed the Imperium as American either.<BR><BR>My influences for Traveller were C.S. Forrester and Patrick O'Brien novels,<BR>Ensign Flandry, the Polseotechnic League, The Mote in God's Eye, and Earl<BR>Dumarest.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:08:53 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Regional Accents<BR><BR>&gt; I've heard teh "TV anchorperson" accent called "midwest standard" among<BR>&gt;&nbsp; other names.<BR><BR>It does closely resemble the accent I have, and I was raised in the midwest<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:16:52 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>Kagehira@aol.com wrote :<BR>&gt; IISS required movie viewing list:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1. E.T.<BR>&gt; 2. Contact<BR>&gt; 3. The Man who would be King<BR>&gt; 4. Robinson Crusoe on Mars<BR>&gt; 5. Alien<BR>&gt; 6. Lord of the Flies<BR>&gt; 7. Survivor<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Reading List<BR>&gt; 1. Robinson Crusoe<BR>&gt; 2. Mysterious Island<BR>&gt; 3. Rendezvous with Rama (series)<BR>&gt; 4. Lost World<BR><BR>You _have_ to add <BR><BR>The Legacy of Heorot<BR>King David's Spaceship<BR>The Uplift War (and associated books)<BR><BR>Frankie <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:23:52 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT slang query<BR><BR>Paul Drye :<BR>&gt; &gt;I was watching a US TV show last night&nbsp; and&nbsp; a&nbsp; female&nbsp; character<BR>&gt; &gt;said that she and her boyfriend "Jones-ed"&nbsp; each&nbsp; other.&nbsp; (Or&nbsp; it<BR>&gt; &gt;sounded something like that.)&nbsp; I'm having difficulty&nbsp; keeping&nbsp; up<BR>&gt; &gt;with slang expresions.&nbsp; What does "Jones-ed" mean?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's not very modern, became truly popular back in the sixties<BR>&gt; but is older than that, and has recently made a comeback in a slightly<BR>&gt; modified way. In modern parlance it normally means "craving for",<BR>&gt; in an ironic way. "I've got a jones/I'm jonesing for some pizza."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It was originally 1930s jazz slang for marijuana smoking, I do b'lieve.<BR><BR>Of course, to me, as British derived, if you've Jones'd someone it also<BR>means that you got one up on them, or beat them by a point, or something<BR>like that.<BR><BR>From the old phrase "keeping up with the Joneses"<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:28:21 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Yanks in Space is in the eye of the beholder.&nbsp; I like grounding<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; my campaigns and writings in something familiar, because then I <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; don't have to spend endless hours explaining the social order of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the Hierarchy of Gaboo.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Er, what is the "Hierarchy of Gaboo"?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Nonsense example.&nbsp; I just pulled a name out of my hat.<BR><BR>And When I do stuff like that, it ends up canon :&nbsp;&nbsp; )<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:35:26 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>From: Frank G. Pitt &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Jones, Dean<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; What does everyone else do?&nbsp; Do you play the 3I as&nbsp; America-writ-large,<BR>or try to make it different somehow?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Being a Brit, I admit that with my first character was tempted to play<BR>someone call St. John-Smythe or Fothering-Thomas, or something equally<BR>unlikely and psuedo-Limey. So I made my guy African. Not African-American,<BR>but Tanzanian. IMHO, he's the coolest character I've ever played.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;I'm also British by birth, and my first Traveller character was a<BR>Scandinavian Scout, "Jag" Hansen, who had a confused heritage of bikies and<BR>vikings. My second was Negroid Moslem fighter pilot, Hashid Mohammed. It<BR>wasn't until my third character, that I indulged my British inclination and<BR>created the moustachioed Colonel Waverly Archibald Xerxes (W.A.X) Johnson.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Other than once playing a Marine top sergeant patterned on Clint Eastwood's<BR>character in "Heartbreak Ridge", I don't think I've ever specifically played<BR>an "American" character in Traveller, or, in the games I've run, ever<BR>portrayed the Imperium as American either.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Mitsuko Kisaragi haut-Rensselaer is actually the first hapa (mixed<BR>Asian/non-Asian) character I've ever played; I used to make my characters as<BR>unlike myself as possible.&nbsp; My first Trav character was a bad-girl<BR>noblewoman named Julissa Myal haut-D'Bari who was half-Vilani; she was<BR>followed by a good-girl noblewoman who was very unlike me indeed, a<BR>testosterone-poisoned ace pilot and a Vargr.&nbsp; Then I went through a phase of<BR>playing gay guys.&nbsp; I haven't played a lot of Japanese gaming characters<BR>actually.&nbsp; I get annoyed when people do goofy shit they THINK is Japanese.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thou Art God...<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>sacred somewhere.&nbsp; There's a deity out there who digs it.&nbsp; You can respect<BR>and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>impractical.&nbsp; It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- Jack Darkhand<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:49:13 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Real Tekkers sneer.&nbsp; Though I have played with the idea of having one of<BR>&gt; the hottest recording Tekkers be a guy in a coma.&nbsp; Comatose folks often<BR>&gt; produce some amazing bursts of mental activity.<BR><BR>Good background reading for this is "The Artist" by Alistair Ong<BR>Don't know if it was published outside of Australia though, I hav it in<BR>Aurealis #23.<BR><BR>&gt; It would work like this:&nbsp; John gets smacked in a g-bus crash, and is in a<BR>&gt; coma.&nbsp; Parents can't pay the bills, so Big Recording Company makes a deal:<BR>&gt; We'll provide all the medical payments in return for exclusive rights to<BR>&gt; his output.<BR><BR>In the above story, the girl performer, who performs via dreams, has had<BR>enough, because her dreams hurt her, and wants a "surgical" procedure to<BR>stop her from dreaming. It is a dangerous procedure, so the procedure fails<BR>and she becomes comatose.<BR><BR>Her manager, whose cashflow would be ruined by her quitting, hooks her up in<BR>her comatise state and continues to make use of her. Nothing is resolved.<BR>Part of the final paragraph :<BR><BR>"It had all gone so horribly wrong. Trudi (the manager) felt awful about the<BR>way things had turned out, but Dr. Niles had said that Jane would probably<BR>not feel anything. Probably."<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:58:37 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: regional accents<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Texan (Dan Rather) or Canadian (Peter Jennings).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Peter Jennings was born in New Zealand, and his mother, at least, still<BR>&gt;lives here.<BR><BR>I found three separate biographies for Peter Jennings on the web:<BR><BR>http://mrshowbiz.go.com/people/peterjennings/index.html<BR>http://www.who2.com/peterjennings.html<BR>http://schwinger.harvard.edu/~terning/bios/Jennings.html<BR><BR>All say he was born in Toronto, Canada.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:07:32 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>Paul Drye wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;most of what we today call English didn't exist in it's current form<BR>&gt; &gt;a couple of hundred years ago.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You overstate your case. Books in English from the year 1800 are almost<BR>&gt; perfectly underdstandable. 1700 and even 1600 are fine too.<BR><BR>Yeah, OK, sorry, I was thinking of Middle and Old English, got the time<BR>periods wrong.<BR><BR>Though as the majority of people don't get most of Shakespeare's jokes,<BR>including most Shakespearean actors (you can tell they don't get the joke,<BR>because they put the emphasis on the wrong syllables) being able to read and<BR>understand the language are two different things.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:43:33 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>Was written:<BR><BR>I've always thought that once we have FTL, every group with an ax<BR>&gt;&gt;to grind is going to take off.&nbsp; You'd have worlds settle by Basques,<BR>&gt;&gt;Ultra-Orthodox Jews, Stalinists, Nazis, Trekkies, Mormons, Kurds, etc.,<BR>&gt;&gt;etc., ad naseum.<BR><BR><BR>To misquote the Tiger, "Must every little language have a planet?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:59:14 EST<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/30/2000 4:55:50 PM Central Standard Time, <BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What would such an Imperium look like?<BR>&gt; <BR>There is a strong economic impulse to violate the Prime Directive. So lots of <BR>violations. Smuggling. Bootlegging. Demand by consumers for goods that are <BR>prohibited. By extension, a breakdown in respect for basic principles on <BR>which the government was founded.<BR><BR>After a period of adjustment, worlds with few resources will remain <BR>"non-interfered." Those with lots of resources will suffer clandestine <BR>interference and sub rosa boot-strapping to bring those planets into the <BR>community of worlds (probably under an imperialistic or colonial structure <BR>that transfers much of the wealth to the "investors.")<BR><BR>It isn't really an Imperium; more like a Confederation.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:06:17 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; IISS required movie viewing list:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1. E.T.<BR>&gt; 2. Contact<BR>&gt; 3. The Man who would be King<BR>&gt; 4. Robinson Crusoe on Mars<BR>&gt; 5. Alien<BR>&gt; 6. Lord of the Flies<BR>&gt; 7. Survivor<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Reading List<BR>&gt; 1. Robinson Crusoe<BR>&gt; 2. Mysterious Island<BR>&gt; 3. Rendezvous with Rama (series)<BR>&gt; 4. Lost World<BR><BR>While I agree with some (if not all) of the addenda suggested by other<BR>TMLers, I would add the following two books:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; _Tunnel in the Sky_, by Robert Heinlein (one of the finest SF<BR>survival novels ever written, IMHO [watch out for stobor!])<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; _The Guns of the South_, by Harry Turtledove (an object lesson both<BR>on the effects of introducing high-tech weapons to a lower-tech culture,<BR>and on the potential of said lower-tech culture both to reproduce the<BR>newtech and to overwhelm a small high-tech enclave)<BR><BR>Actually, I would suggest that the IISS read _any_ surviving Turtledove<BR>works.&nbsp; His mastery of the alternative history genre helps illustrate<BR>the issues of contact between societies of different tech levels.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:19:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Thing &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>Subject: FFE 003<BR><BR>I just had to take a small break from reading to say that I love the<BR>Clasic Adventures reprints.&nbsp; Fills in the gaps in my collection very<BR>nicely and servers nicely as an early birthday prezzie!<BR><BR>G.D.D.<BR>=========<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:48:23 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; During the next five hundred years, between Beowulf and the Canterbury<BR>&gt;&gt; Tales, the French-speaking Normans conquered England and French became<BR>&gt;&gt; the language of the ruling class.&nbsp; The ordinary people used Old English,<BR>&gt;&gt; but simplified it substantially (and irregularly).&nbsp; Spelling went to<BR>&gt;&gt; hell, of course, because the poor people using English were illiterate.<BR>&gt;&gt; (Old English was almost perfectly phonetic.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Note that illiterate people have no impact on spelling. :)&nbsp; Most of<BR>&gt;English's current spelling woes result from two problems:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;* Some groups of words preserve a spelling which quite accurately<BR>&gt;&nbsp; reflected their pronunciation at one moment in the evolution of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; language, but the pronunciation has since shifted without the spelling<BR>&gt;&nbsp; being updated.&nbsp; Good examples are the 'igh' in 'night' and 'fright',<BR>&gt;&nbsp; which once had a gutteral sound before the 't' similar to the German<BR>&gt;&nbsp; cognates.&nbsp; (When Monty Python has the French taunting Arthur and his<BR>&gt;&nbsp; "silly English kuh-nig-uts", it's actually a very sophisticated joke.)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Another good example are the uses of 'ea' as an equivalent for either<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 'ee' or 'ay'.&nbsp; This dates to the language's last great vowel shift, when<BR>&gt;&nbsp; a number of containing 'ay' sounds shifted to 'ee' sounds.&nbsp; Their used<BR>&gt;&nbsp; to be a word 'quean' which meant 'whore'.&nbsp; It dropped out of favor<BR>&gt;&nbsp; during this period. :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;* Other words simply had subtly different pronunciations in different<BR>&gt;&nbsp; regions, or several potentially accurate spellings.&nbsp; In this case, it<BR>&gt;&nbsp; was a matter of 'chance' (a mess of cultural factors) which spelling<BR>&gt;&nbsp; won out for each word, and hence there is little consistency in the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; resulting spellings.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>&gt; --*--&nbsp; "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR><BR>I seem to recall from an evolution of language course that I took as a<BR>freshman many decades ago that one of the causes of such terrible and<BR>non-standardized spelling in English can be attributed to the introduction<BR>of printing. The story went; When printing was developed in Europe the King<BR>of England sent young boys to the continent to learn the trade as<BR>apprentices to Master Printers in the Netherlands. The youths studied for<BR>decades, finally becoming masters themselves and returned to England with<BR>printing presses to replace the scribes, who up until that time had produced<BR>all official documents.<BR><BR>Their first problem was that they didn't have all the proper letters in<BR>their typeset. So they began using "th" to replace the two letters thry<BR>didn't have (One that kind of looks like a "Y" and one that kind of looks<BR>like a Rho, which is why you still see signs that seem to read "Ye Old Book<BR>Shop". It's still "The", but the "th" is replaced by the proper letter.) (I<BR>know I could look up their proper names, but its too late here :).)<BR><BR>The next problem is that these middle aged men hadn't spoken their native<BR>language in years, but were quite fluent in Dutch and other continental<BR>languages. There were no dictionaries (Not in English at any rate) and so<BR>the proper spelling of a word was what was on the official documents. That's<BR>why were have about six different sounds for "ough". It might have been<BR>okay, but the spellings weren't used consistently across words.<BR><BR>I don't know how accurate the above is. It's been at least 30 years, so I<BR>might have mis-remember or the facts might have been re-evaluated by the<BR>experts since then.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3241<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:51:28 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:50:51 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA62331;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:50:11 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:49:44 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA62288<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:49:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:49:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010310449.XAA62288@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3241<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 31 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3242<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Linguistic survival<BR>RE: regional accents<BR>RE: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240<BR>recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>Re: Books that survived<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: What Sports Survived<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: TL13 AT request<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: Media that survived ...<BR>Re: How much culture will survive TLN?<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Re: TL13 AT request<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:35:36 -0800<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Ah, but there may well be a Balrog in the woodpile on this.&nbsp; Having not<BR>&gt; read the book in question, I suspect that Fischer's thesis is based on<BR>&gt; the premise that humaniti will continue to be limited to this planet (or<BR>&gt; at least this system).&nbsp; Should we discover jump drive (or an equivalent)<BR>&gt; before the various other languages are extinguished by the "Big Three"<BR>&gt; of Chinese, Spanish, and English, a Terran neo-neocolonialism could<BR>&gt; serve to preserve minority languages beyond their projected Terra-only<BR>&gt; lifetime.<BR><BR>It's just so darn hard to get serious linguists to worry about the effects<BR>of jump drive and other essential technology on language evolution.<BR><BR>Actually, upon closer examination, there seems to be little difference<BR>between English and other languages. For example from Middle-French we have:<BR><BR>Jacques abbe Nimes-able,<BR>Jacques bec couic,<BR>Jacques j'aimes pas voir<BR>Ta canne d'elastique.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:21:30 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: regional accents<BR><BR>I wrote:<BR>&gt;Peter Jennings was born in New Zealand, and his mother, at least, still<BR>&gt;lives here.<BR><BR>Paul Drye wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I found three separate biographies for Peter Jennings on the web:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://mrshowbiz.go.com/people/peterjennings/index.html<BR>&gt; http://www.who2.com/peterjennings.html<BR>&gt; http://schwinger.harvard.edu/~terning/bios/Jennings.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; All say he was born in Toronto, Canada.<BR><BR>Yeah, I'm wrong, when people said "Peter Jennings", for some reason I<BR>thought "Peter Arnett"<BR><BR>http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/arnett.html<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:48:55 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Matt Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Charles R Hensley [mailto:hensley.cr@gte.net]<BR>&gt; &gt; Icelandic is supposed to be a pure language by modern standards.<BR>&gt; Yeah, but even it will have loan-words, especially for technical terms.<BR><BR>Why? <BR><BR>They have invented original words for these for a long time. For example,<BR>their word for telephone is something from their own roots. <BR>(As, coincidentally, is the Finnish word for telephone, 'puhelin'.<BR>But Icelandic is closer to English.)<BR><BR>New words are also invented or adapted from old ones in Arabic. The word<BR>for 'train' is an ancient word meaning 'a train of camels' or something<BR>like that. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:18:32 -0600<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 09:17 PM 10/29/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Were I a GURPS player, I think that I would be _more_ annoyed if every<BR>&gt; &gt;worldbook for GURPS included several pages of C-I reprint, since this<BR>&gt; &gt;would reduce the number of pages dedicated to the subject at hand.&nbsp; I'd<BR>&gt; &gt;rather buy the durned book (which I have) than see the same material<BR>&gt; &gt;rehashed in worldbook after worldbook.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Had I been forced to reprint the complete description of every Advantage<BR>&gt; and Disadvantage from CI in Ground Forces, I would have lost at least three<BR>&gt; pages of text.<BR><BR>I never said to reprint the material from CI in the new book (that defeats the<BR>promary purpose of CI). For GURPS players that want to try out Traveller,<BR>requiring CI isn't a problem (the odds are *someone* has it). But for old<BR>Traveller players picking up GURPS Traveller, it's an extra $24 they might not<BR>need to spend (for the character templates, it isn't used that much; for racial<BR>templates, well, yeah, you need it -- or GURPS Aliens with current errata).<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1970 01:13:24 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240<BR><BR>Well, it has now appeared in an email with your name on it. Is it a Vilani secret society? ;-)<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Tuesday, October 31, 2000, at 02:28 AM, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;Er, what is the "Hierarchy of Gaboo"? <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Nonsense example.&nbsp; I just pulled a name out of my hat. <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; And When I do stuff like that, it ends up canon :&nbsp;&nbsp; ) <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:47:57 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Actually, I think the question isn't which books survived the Long Night but<BR>&gt; which ones didn't.&nbsp; With things like the Gutenberg Project I see a time when<BR>&gt; all published works may be preserved in an electronic form.&nbsp; With todays<BR>&gt; technology huge amounts of text can be stored on a CD (let alone DVD).<BR><BR>DVDs are an example of why things might *not* survive. <BR><BR>The data on a DVD is *encrypted*. Which means that without a good idea<BR>of what the original data is supposed to look like (or a functioning<BR>reader) it'll be very hard if not impossible to restore the data.<BR><BR>Worse yet, due to the "country coding", playing the same DVD in<BR>different players will provide a *different* output!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:01:51 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The point is that science fiction in general is _not_ about technology.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Someone once said that "SF" doesn't really stand for science<BR>&gt;&gt; fiction but for<BR>&gt;&gt; _social_ fiction, and the best works of SF bear this out.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I am far from an expert on the subject, since I don't actually read science<BR>&gt; fiction these days (and haven't for well over ten years), but I understand<BR>&gt; that there are subclasses of SF, one of which is called something like "hard<BR>&gt; science fiction," in which the author thinks of a clever application of<BR>&gt; advanced or speculative technology and basically uses his story to show this<BR>&gt; technology in operation.<BR><BR>Not quite. And please note that science and technology are *not* the<BR>same thing, even though they are related. Both are found in SF.<BR><BR>The sort of story you refer to hasn't been a mainstay of SF since about<BR>1930. It was about then that writers like Heinlein and campbell started<BR>using the tech as the *setting*, but telling the story about the *people*.<BR><BR>Hard SF does tend towards this, with folks like Hal Clement writing<BR>stuff where the science (not tech!) is co-equal with the characters.<BR>But even they have characters and make you care at least a bit about<BR>them. <BR><BR>SF to be salable *at all* has to have at least as much story as "look<BR>at the neat gizmos".&nbsp; <BR><BR>And note that Tom Clancy tend to get as heavily into tech as "hard sf",<BR>it just real or "near future" tech that he's dealing with.<BR><BR>The difference between "hard SF" and other SF, is that the "hard"<BR>authors try to make sure that their science/technology doesn't violate<BR>know physical laws except on *purpose*, and they try to minimize that. <BR><BR>There's a related field sometimes called "hard fantasy", of which the<BR>late Randall Garrett's "Lord Darcy" stories are a prime example. They<BR>have rules to how the world works, and the author follows the rules.<BR>And tries to subtly sdlip in info about how the world differs from<BR>ours, so the reader has a chance to figure things out before the<BR>characters do.<BR><BR>&gt; Even in the advanced TLs of the Traveller universe<BR>&gt; we are likely to have speculation on future technologies, and the supporting<BR>&gt; works of fiction to showcase the speculation. The big difference is that the<BR>&gt; subject of the speculation will change quite a bit over the next thousand<BR>&gt; years or so. Even in an age in which matter transport is actually possible<BR>&gt; (TL 16, which represents a significant fraction of the population of the<BR>&gt; 3I), you will still have speculation about what comes next, and that will<BR>&gt; probably be represented in the SF of the Traveller universe.<BR><BR>&gt; Sure, "social fiction" will exist, but that's not the really fun stuff.<BR>&gt; IMNSHO.<BR><BR>"Speculative Fiction" (which is what a lot of folks try to claim SF is<BR>supposaed to stand for) has that sort of thing too. Some of it is ok, a<BR>lot is pretty dreadful. Mostly because too many authors of that branch<BR>try to write the same way *Literature* (according to professors of<BR>Literature) is written. &lt;sigh&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:58:02 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Note that it's very, very likely that major religious works will survive,<BR>&gt; since people will treasure these and keep them in print indefinitely.<BR>&gt; Similarly, older works which have stood the test of time and become<BR>&gt; cultural mainstays are unlikely to disappear; for example, I imagine<BR>&gt; Shakespeare is immortal at this point.<BR><BR>And the collection of stories referred to as "The Arabian Nights" may<BR>survive via *oral* tradition as long as there are folks who are<BR>culturally "Arab" and mostly low tech.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:51:45 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; group of players in a campaign of mine were horified when the visited <BR>&gt; Capital and found that the cultural highlight of the season was Princess <BR>&gt; Ciencia Iphegenia doing a public reading of selected works by the great <BR>&gt; 20th Century writers Mills &amp; Boon.<BR><BR>Who?<BR><BR>(or is that the point?)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:43:01 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I mean, I understand that English is the only language we all have in common<BR>&gt; on this list, but come on!&nbsp; Just because you don't know about it and<BR>&gt; couldn't read/understand it if you did, doesn't mean no one else would keep<BR>&gt; it alive...<BR><BR>Hey, I leave it to the folks familiar with that stuff to list it. :-)<BR><BR>Heck, I *know* like some "Asian" music (Japanese, Vietnamese, etc) from<BR>hearing some that folks I used to work with played. But I haven't<BR>picked up any because it's too much hassle to track any down.<BR><BR>If the lawsuits about Napster and other MP3 sites clear up, then maybe<BR>I'll be able to find some good stuff.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:26:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: What Sports Survived<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 10:11 PM 10/27/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Captain Sisko aside, will anyone play baseball anymore? Will they get in a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;lather about the Intrasystem Series? Most importantly, will the bloody damn<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Greater New York Yankees *still* win the World Series every three years?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Great. So not only do the Mets still have to worry about the Yankees, but<BR>&gt;&gt;now I've got to contend with the Yomiuri Giants. And let's not even *think*<BR>&gt;&gt;about what the Yerlyaruiwo Catsclaws can do...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Chicago Cubs are still around.&nbsp; And they still haven't won the World<BR>&gt; Series.<BR><BR>They did once!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:30:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>"Hope Eyrie" by Leslie Fish. <BR><BR>Yes, it's SF oriented, but I suspect that once we actually move into<BR>space it'll move out into the "popular" cultures.<BR><BR>It was originally written to fill an awkward "gap" on an LP (they had<BR>?:?? of time to fill on side 2). It was a near immediate hit with fans<BR>and has remained popular since. <BR><BR>Even though it refers to the first Moon landing, most of the song deals<BR>with much wider concepts of conquering the Universe.<BR><BR>The words are likely available on the Web, as Leslie encourages folks<BR>to spread her stuff around, as long as she gets credited.<BR><BR>Another of her songs may also survive, or rather the *tune* and general<BR>concept will survive...<BR><BR>"Banned From Argo" has generated so many parodies/versions that a<BR>songbook of nothing but different versions is being (or has been) printed!<BR><BR>The original deals with a certain notorious Star Fleet crew getting<BR>into trouble on shore leave...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:29:39 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Hmmm, Battlefield Earth eh? Did you know that John Travolta thinks it<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; has become a "cult hit" and is trying to raise funds for a sequel? Do<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; you think we should organise a collection to hire a hit man, just to<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; stop it?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Of *course* it's a "cult" hit. But I don't dare name the "cult" as<BR>&gt;&gt;that'll bring them down on us.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;But I will say that it starts with "sci" and ends with "ology".<BR><BR>&gt; Oh Oh, now you've done it Leonard. You've almost used their name in direct<BR>&gt; violation of their iron clad patent, copyright and Trademark restrictions<BR>&gt; that their lawyers will certainly interpret as a TML first strike. No doubt<BR>&gt; we will all now be in litigation for the rest of our natural lives while<BR>&gt; they attempt to squeeze ever last cent out of all of our bank accounts as a<BR>&gt; lesson to any who would dare even speak their name.<BR><BR>I'm not worried. I've got some friends who are members of the Church,<BR>and I took a couple of courses before I decided it was a bad idea.<BR><BR>Anyway, I've seen a few passages I wasn't supposed it in some of their<BR>manuals. And I know the "secret formula" for making them go away...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:31:54 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Terry Carlino posted:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Oh Oh, now you've done it Leonard. You've almost used their name in direct<BR>&gt;&gt; violation of their iron clad patent, copyright and Trademark restrictions<BR>&gt;&gt; that their lawyers will certainly interpret as a TML first strike. No doubt<BR>&gt;&gt; we will all now be in litigation for the rest of our natural lives while<BR>&gt;&gt; they attempt to squeeze ever last cent out of all of our bank accounts as a<BR>&gt;&gt; lesson to any who would dare even speak their name.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh come on, Terry. It's not like he said "Hastur".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh sh..NO NO NO!&nbsp;&nbsp; AAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;chompchompswallowbelch&gt;<BR><BR>Hmm. You must have said H-st-r twice before...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:51:07 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: TL13 AT request<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Could you supply some specifications? Like Maximum <BR>&gt;&gt; mass/weight, range, armor penetration minimums,&nbsp; &nbsp; I don't <BR>&gt;&gt; recall the Z-80 MBT, I have a lot of Traveller <BR>&gt;&gt; Books/materials, if you could point the way so to speak. I <BR>&gt;&gt; will be using a G^3 spreadsheet that does rockets/guided <BR>&gt;&gt; missiles very well, and outputs them in MT/GT formats.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think you've been pipped at the post by Ludowick (who sent me a<BR>&gt; design off-list).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; However,&nbsp; the&nbsp; Z-80&nbsp; appears&nbsp; in&nbsp; 101&nbsp; Vehicles&nbsp; and&nbsp; (IIRC)&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; Rebellion Sourcebook. <BR><BR>ROFL!<BR><BR>I'm sorry, but I missed that when the book came out. <BR><BR>Z-80? I love it....<BR><BR>(obscure computer humor, don't worry if you don't get it...)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:55:58 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Luther Martin wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; But English is the first *world-wide* lingua franca, and already has<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; enormous cultural momentum behind it.&nbsp; I can't imagine a scenario where<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; this momentum could be averted.&nbsp; This may just be a failure of <BR>&gt; imagination<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; on my part, of course. :)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; There is a recent book, "A History of Language," by Steven Roger Fischer<BR>&gt;&gt; which discusses the future of English and other languages on Earth. Fischer<BR>&gt;&gt; is a linguistic heavyweight, so this is not just the raving of a TML loonie<BR>&gt;&gt; (i.e., me). Fischer claims that it almost certain that only three languages<BR>&gt;&gt; will survive the next 300 years: Mandarin Chinese, Spanish, and English. Of<BR>&gt;&gt; these, he predicts that by as early as the late twenty-fourth century,<BR>&gt;&gt; English may be the only one left. For more details, read the book.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ah, but there may well be a Balrog in the woodpile on this.&nbsp; Having not<BR>&gt; read the book in question, I suspect that Fischer's thesis is based on<BR>&gt; the premise that humaniti will continue to be limited to this planet (or<BR>&gt; at least this system).&nbsp; Should we discover jump drive (or an equivalent)<BR>&gt; before the various other languages are extinguished by the "Big Three"<BR>&gt; of Chinese, Spanish, and English, a Terran neo-neocolonialism could<BR>&gt; serve to preserve minority languages beyond their projected Terra-only<BR>&gt; lifetime.<BR><BR>Heck, simply spreading out to the other planets and the Asteroids will<BR>have a big effect. The speed of light lag will make *conversation*<BR>impossible beyond the moon. <BR><BR>Instead, the best verbal communicaytion you'd get would be a sort of<BR>"voice mail". And I seriously doubt it'd be used except as a onew way<BR>medium (like a video "Christmas card" or the like). <BR><BR>If you have to wait from 15 minutes to several hours for a reply, and<BR>it takes an equal amount of time for the next "exchange", you are going<BR>to use email, simply because it's easier to be clear in print. And<BR>because most folks will tend to be a bit more organized when writing<BR>than when speaking.<BR><BR>This could lead (over time) to a situuation similar to Chinese, where<BR>everyone can *read* English, but Martians can't understand Terran, and<BR>neither can understand the dialect from the Jovian moons.<BR><BR>And if there's a pronounced ethnic imbalance in the folks who go to<BR>Mars or Jupiter or the Belt, you may wind up with the "English is for<BR>talking to HQ, not for talking to *people*" attitude. Which could let<BR>some other language be the "native" tongue.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:03:50 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; ObTrav 2: Find out what languages your players speak, and then (if they<BR>&gt; enjoy such puzzles) put them in the situation of having to communicate in a<BR>&gt; language they possess only a smattering of. Even if it's not the "right"<BR>&gt; language for the setting, it gives the flavor of frustration involved.<BR><BR>From my experiences trying to read a novel in French with only 2 years<BR>of high school French, I've considered (but never used) the idea of<BR>handing a player who is supposed to know "a little" of the local<BR>language a printout that has the simple words ("of", "the", etc)<BR>translated into English, along with a percentage of the "common words".<BR><BR>He gets to try to puzzle out the rest. For more fun, have the "root"<BR>words printed, with the affixes left intact:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ag&lt;print&gt;<BR><BR>Which might be properly translated as "printed"...<BR><BR>This would require a small program and drawing up some rules. Or<BR>knowing a language non of the players knows.<BR><BR>It's probably too cumbersome. But it might work.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:47:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; And there was a GURPS:Prisoner book so you could do&nbsp; a&nbsp; crossover<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; campaign.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; If you're one of the 3 people on the planet who owns one. It's almost<BR>&gt;&gt; impossible to find.<BR><BR>That's what folks told me about GURPS:Lensman. And I found a copy by<BR>*accident* that had been sitting on ther shelf at that comic shop since<BR>it was released!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:38:28 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: How much culture will survive TLN?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; The strength of modern storage methods is in their easy reproduceability. <BR>&gt; This means that there will be many copies of each item (song/show/etc.) <BR>&gt; and that if someone _wants_ to make new copies then things can be kept<BR>&gt; indefinately. But will anyone want to?&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Cultural changes and shifts between now and the 3I will be pretty big. <BR>&gt; While it breaks my heart to think of some archivist looking at a copy of<BR>&gt; Beethoven's 9th and saying "Nah, skip it", it seems more than likely that<BR>&gt; there will be some cultural period where this will happen.&nbsp; Throw in a few<BR>&gt; periods of strife (TLN, whether really dark or just "dim" as recently<BR>&gt; discussed) and the number of items to survive seems likely to be low. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Also, it's not as easy as an unbroken series of copies.&nbsp; There will be<BR>&gt; data loss with each new copy.&nbsp; Thus, someone's going to have to regenerate<BR>&gt; the data, and that implies more effort/knowledge/care than just copying. <BR><BR>Doesn't work that way. With digital media you either get a perfect<BR>copy, or you don't get a usable copy. *Especially* with stuff like CDs<BR>and DVDs.<BR><BR>That's the whole *point* of digital. <BR><BR>&gt; OTOH, standardized automatic algorithms may be able to take care of this<BR>&gt; reasonably well, although they tend to "low pass" things after many<BR>&gt; copies. <BR><BR>You're confused using digital techniques to copy *analog* data, and<BR>making copies of digital data. <BR><BR>If the difference between the 1 and 0 states is more than a certain<BR>amount, the media is readable. If it isn't, it's not readable. <BR><BR>Trying to salvage *damaged* recordings is a different matter. But just<BR>making copies of a readable "original" will *always* give a perfect<BR>copy, unless there's a hardware or media problem.<BR><BR>That's why a 10th generation Xerox or videotape looks like garbage, but<BR>a 10th generation copy of a file is identical to the original.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:16:37 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; group of players in a campaign of mine were horified when <BR>&gt; the visited <BR>&gt; &gt; Capital and found that the cultural highlight of the season <BR>&gt; was Princess <BR>&gt; &gt; Ciencia Iphegenia doing a public reading of selected works <BR>&gt; by the great <BR>&gt; &gt; 20th Century writers Mills &amp; Boon.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Who?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Writers famous for their output of nauseating formula romances. Mills and<BR>Boon can even be considered a genre. I'm not sure if Mills and Boon are even<BR>real people, or just pseudonyms under which this sugery slush is published.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:18:58 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240<BR><BR>At 21:28 30.10.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Nonsense example.&nbsp; I just pulled a name out of my hat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And When I do stuff like that, it ends up canon :&nbsp;&nbsp; )<BR><BR>&lt;WEG&gt; I think Loren understood our concept of canon too well &lt;/WEG&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1970 01:54:19 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>They're the publishing company, I think.<BR>People are presupposing that works will survive on merit rather than distribution, which is flawed. If you have millions of copies of something, it's more likely to survive (archives aside).<BR>Contemporary paper books will *not* survive until the 3I, however, they'll perish naturally during the Long Night. Pulp paperbacks won't last through the Rule of Man. Get carving your favourite works onto stone tablets now...<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Tuesday, October 31, 2000, at 11:16 AM, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Writers famous for their output of nauseating formula romances. Mills and <BR>&gt; Boon can even be considered a genre. I'm not sure if Mills and Boon are even <BR>&gt; real people, or just pseudonyms under which this sugery slush is published. <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:56:10 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TL13 AT request<BR><BR>On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; However,&nbsp; the&nbsp; Z-80&nbsp; appears&nbsp; in&nbsp; 101&nbsp; Vehicles&nbsp; and&nbsp; (IIRC)&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; Rebellion Sourcebook. <BR>&gt; ROFL!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm sorry, but I missed that when the book came out. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Z-80? I love it....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (obscure computer humor, don't worry if you don't get it...)<BR><BR>Hm, this brings an idea about a ship with just code name : 6502.<BR><BR>Or, let the players find a Master remote Controller MC68000 B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3242<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (rly-yg04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.4]) by air-yg02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:57:47 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:57:28 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id GAA96364;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:56:41 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:56:15 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA96319<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:56:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:56:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010311156.GAA96319@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3242<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 31 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3243<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>More Traveller Items for Sale<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Media that survived ...<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Media that survived ...<BR>The Dreaded Hierarchy&nbsp; (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240)<BR>Re: The Dreaded Hierarchy&nbsp; (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240)<BR>Library Data<BR>Library Data: Ludwig van Beethoven<BR>Library Data: George Orwell<BR>RE: The Dreaded Hierarchy<BR>RE: The Dreaded Hierarchy<BR>RE: Culture<BR>RE: Psuedo-Japanese Goofiness (was Re: Culture)<BR>RE: What Music Survived?<BR>RE: Linguistic survival<BR>Re: Linguistic Survival<BR>Re: Library Data<BR>RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>RE: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:40:15 -0600<BR>From: "Dorfman, Steven, Maj" &lt;Steven.Dorfman@mcconnell.af.mil&gt;<BR>Subject: More Traveller Items for Sale<BR><BR>I have more traveller items for sale.&nbsp; If interested please email me at<BR>steven.dorfman@mcconnell.af.mil<BR><BR>Steve<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:22:31 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; Worse yet, due to the "country coding", playing the same DVD in<BR>&gt; different players will provide a *different* output!<BR><BR>In all the examples I've seen region coding affects output in&nbsp; an<BR>all-or-nothing way rather than *modifiying* the&nbsp; output.&nbsp; Besides<BR>which getting the region code&nbsp; processing&nbsp; function&nbsp; disabled&nbsp; is<BR>fairly routine for&nbsp; consumers&nbsp; so&nbsp; just&nbsp; about&nbsp; everyone&nbsp; I&nbsp; know<BR>(including myself) has&nbsp; had&nbsp; it&nbsp; done.&nbsp; (Half&nbsp; my&nbsp; collection&nbsp; is<BR>Region 1 (US and Canada) and half are Region&nbsp; 2&nbsp; (Europe,&nbsp; Middle<BR>East, South Africa,&nbsp; Japan).)&nbsp; The&nbsp; current&nbsp; practice&nbsp; of&nbsp; Region<BR>coding will only last until the industry accepts that we live&nbsp; in<BR>a global economy (though there will no doubt&nbsp; be&nbsp; further&nbsp; doomed<BR>attempts at enforced denial of this fact first).<BR><BR>I don't see region coding as being as issue on DVD media survival<BR>through the Long Night ... physical degradation of disks maybe.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:29:05 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Worse yet, due to the "country coding", playing the same DVD in<BR>&gt; &gt; different players will provide a *different* output!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In all the examples I've seen region coding affects output in&nbsp; an<BR>&gt; all-or-nothing way rather than *modifiying* the&nbsp; output.&nbsp; Besides<BR>&gt; which getting the region code&nbsp; processing&nbsp; function&nbsp; disabled&nbsp; is<BR>&gt; fairly routine for&nbsp; consumers&nbsp; so&nbsp; just&nbsp; about&nbsp; everyone&nbsp; I&nbsp; know<BR>&gt; (including myself) has&nbsp; had&nbsp; it&nbsp; done.&nbsp; (Half&nbsp; my&nbsp; collection&nbsp; is<BR>&gt; Region 1 (US and Canada) and half are Region&nbsp; 2&nbsp; (Europe,&nbsp; Middle<BR>&gt; East, South Africa,&nbsp; Japan).)&nbsp; The&nbsp; current&nbsp; practice&nbsp; of&nbsp; Region<BR>&gt; coding will only last until the industry accepts that we live&nbsp; in<BR>&gt; a global economy (though there will no doubt&nbsp; be&nbsp; further&nbsp; doomed<BR>&gt; attempts at enforced denial of this fact first).<BR><BR>Region coding is complicated by the format of the signal, however. Region 1<BR>disks are also<BR>NTSC, European are PAL ( I think Japan is also NTSC). I have 2 DVD players,<BR>both modified to play all regions, but my Pacific Rim model can't handle<BR>PAL.&nbsp; My european model can handle PAL and NTSC, so that's all right.<BR><BR>OB-Trav: Nothing. Just showing off. <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:04:27 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2000 7:17 PM<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; group of players in a campaign of mine were horified when <BR>&gt; &gt; the visited <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Capital and found that the cultural highlight of the season <BR>&gt; &gt; was Princess <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ciencia Iphegenia doing a public reading of selected works <BR>&gt; &gt; by the great <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 20th Century writers Mills &amp; Boon.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Who?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Writers famous for their output of nauseating formula romances. Mills and<BR>&gt; Boon can even be considered a genre. I'm not sure if Mills and <BR>&gt; Boon are even<BR>&gt; real people, or just pseudonyms under which this sugery slush is <BR>&gt; published.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>I was under the impression that Mills &amp; Boon were the publishing company.<BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:29:14 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>At 01:47 31.10.00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; And there was a GURPS:Prisoner book so you could do&nbsp; a&nbsp; crossover<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; campaign.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; If you're one of the 3 people on the planet who owns one. It's almost<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; impossible to find.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That's what folks told me about GURPS:Lensman. And I found a copy by<BR>&gt;*accident* that had been sitting on ther shelf at that comic shop since<BR>&gt;it was released!<BR><BR>Yup, youre right. Two years ago, I found G:The Prisoner sitting on a shelf <BR>of the Trivial Book Shop in Hannover, so I got me a copy. AFAIK they had <BR>one more, back then, but that was 2 years ago, and I havent been to <BR>Hannover since.<BR>But this goes to tell you: Never give up, the Gamebooks are out there, you <BR>want to believe...(etc)<BR><BR><BR>Volker<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:48:15 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Antony Farrell [mailto:Skaran@bigpond.com]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was under the impression that Mills &amp; Boon were the <BR>&gt; publishing company.<BR><BR>Indeed they are. In fact they also used to publish textbooks for schools<BR>and colleges, before becoming almost exclusively romantic pot-boiler<BR>publishers.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:28:20 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Media that survived ...<BR><BR>&gt; From: Leonard Erickson <BR>&gt; That's what folks told me about GURPS:Lensman. And I found a copy by<BR>&gt; *accident* that had been sitting on ther shelf at that comic shop since<BR>&gt; it was released!<BR><BR>Cool!&nbsp; You can sometimes get really lucky with this kind of thing.&nbsp; It's<BR>how I picked up Cogs and Dogs for $5.&nbsp; (That's $5 Australian, currently<BR>about $2.55 US and declining...)&nbsp; <BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:37:01 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: The Dreaded Hierarchy&nbsp; (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240)<BR><BR>I'm with Rob on this one - it must become canon now.<BR><BR>It probably isn't Vilani though - "Gaboo" doesn't look like a Vilani form. <BR>It seems to have some kind of association with the Imperial ground forces,<BR>and is obviously a secret society of the most terrifying kind...<BR><BR>I think it's a mystery cult!&nbsp; It's something like Mithraism - perhaps a<BR>spinoff from the Church of the Stellar Divinity.&nbsp; It has secretive rituals,<BR>degrees of initiation and so on.&nbsp; <BR><BR>And of course, it must never be mentioned in public.&nbsp; So let us never speak<BR>of it again!<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>&gt; From: Rob Myers <BR>&gt; Well, it has now appeared in an email with your name on it. Is it a<BR>Vilani secret society? ;-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - - Rob.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Tuesday, October 31, 2000, at 02:28 AM, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;Er, what is the "Hierarchy of Gaboo"? <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; Nonsense example.&nbsp; I just pulled a name out of my hat. <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; And When I do stuff like that, it ends up canon :&nbsp;&nbsp; ) <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1970 05:23:43 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Dreaded Hierarchy&nbsp; (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3240)<BR><BR>So all we need now is for Marc or Loren to deny that it exists and it becomes canon?<BR><BR>Spooky. :-)<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Tuesday, October 31, 2000, at 01:37 PM, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm with Rob on this one - it must become canon now. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And of course, it must never be mentioned in public.&nbsp; So let us never speak <BR>&gt; of it again! <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:58:16 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Library Data<BR><BR>It occurred to me last night that maybe a more fun way to treat the "what<BR>has survived" material would be to write up library data passages from<BR>various regions (the Imperium, the Confederation, the Consulate) that would<BR>include details on how the works/authors are perceived in the Imperial era,<BR>as well as providing adventure hooks or red herrings (in the best tradition<BR>of Library Data).<BR><BR>I've started the ball rolling with the next couple of posts.<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:15:14 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Library Data: Ludwig van Beethoven<BR><BR>Beethoven, Ludwig van (-2748 to -2691): Solomani composer of the<BR>pre-Starflight era. Author of nine symphonies, of which five survive intact;<BR>his best regarded work, the Ninth Symphony, is marred only by a choral<BR>setting of an "ode to joy" by his contemporary, the poet Friedrich Schiller<BR>(-2759 to -2723). [1]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Library Data<BR><BR>Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827): One of the greatest pre-Starflight<BR>Solomani composers. Author of several concertos, much chamber music, and<BR>nine symphonies, of which five survive intact and four have been<BR>reconstructed from transcriptions of recorded performances and transposed<BR>scores for digital and Vilani instruments...[2]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ...Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a monument to the Human<BR>Brotherhood which is the core of the Solomani Movement. It was on the<BR>program of music played in Bern, Terra, at the proclamation of the Solomani<BR>Confederation (5389) and again when the War of Solomani Independence was<BR>declared (5508). Thereafter it became customary to play parts of the "Ode to<BR>Joy" during official news announcments.[3] After Armistice in 5520, the<BR>practice was abandoned. Secretary-General Wolfe proclaimed that it would not<BR>be played by a state orchestra until Terra was once more reintegrated into<BR>the Confederation; to this day, the Aldeberan Sector Symphony Orchestra<BR>rehearses it every year, but does not perform it in concert. The final<BR>"rehearsal" is now a state event of high importance...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Encyclopedia Solamnica, AD 5625 edition.<BR><BR>Notes:<BR>[1] This is an old criticism, and some hold it to this day. Imperial<BR>aristocratic reaction to the theme of universal brotherhood colors the<BR>Imperial entry.<BR>[2] Intact scores for the "lost" symphonies (1, 2, 4, and 8) would be<BR>priceless to collectors and researchers. If the possessor of such a score<BR>was truly bold, she would start a bidding war between the Imperium and the<BR>Confederation.<BR>[3] The ode is performed in Anglic, with subtle alteration ("world" to<BR>"worlds," for example) that also distort Schiller's message of freedom for<BR>all men to freedom for True Men.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:30:14 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Library Data: George Orwell<BR><BR>Orwell, George: (-2597 to -2550): Pre-Starflight Solomani essayist and<BR>novelist. His best known work, "1984" (the title refers to the year it was<BR>written in the Solomani date system), is remarkable for its prescient vision<BR>of life in the Zhodani Consulate, and, ironically, the Solomani<BR>Confederation. [1]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Library Data<BR><BR>Orwell, George: (1903-1950): Pre-Starflight Solomani essayist. He wrote<BR>several novels of life in the Britain region of Terra, none of which have<BR>survived, and some essays on notable political figures of his day, of<BR>interest only to the historian.[2]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Encyclopedia Solamnica, AD 5625 edition<BR><BR>Author: Orwell<BR>Work: 1984 (Novel)<BR>Notes: Posession of this work is a class-2 thoughtcrime. Seizure and<BR>destruction of the materials is mandated. Criminal posessor of the work to<BR>be held in custody until interrogation by Senior Solsec Commission is<BR>possible. As with all class-2 material, possession by an agent or monitor of<BR>SolSec is punishable by hard labor or death...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Classified Regulations Regarding the Possession of Subversive<BR>Materials, SolSec Commission of the Aldeberan Party Congress, AD 5625<BR><BR>In the next few days, you will receive "The Book." Hide it well;<BR>unexpurgated versions are becoming rarer, especially now that the Imperium<BR>occupies Terra...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ...What is The Book? It is a work by a single man, a Solomani political<BR>theorist named George Orwell, who lived in the pre-Starflight era. The Book<BR>consists of his novel, "1984," and several essays on the uses of politicized<BR>language...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ...The key thing to remember in reading The Book is that Orwell was not<BR>predicting his own future; nor was he describing his own present, as many<BR>have astutely realized; no, he was describing the relationship of Absolute<BR>Power to those it crushes, wherever and whenever that might be...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --From a confidential letter to an unamed student, found on his body<BR>by INI following the riot at the Jumpspace Institute in 1101, believed to be<BR>from the Ine Givar local cell.<BR><BR>Notes:<BR>[1] Date of publication deliberately garbled.<BR>[2] The essay conveniently concentrates on Orwell's lesser known novels and<BR>essays.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:44:53 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Dreaded Hierarchy<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt; I'm with Rob on this one - it must become canon now.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It probably isn't Vilani though - "Gaboo" doesn't look like a<BR>&gt; Vilani form. It seems to have some kind of association with the<BR>&gt; Imperial ground forces, and is obviously a secret society of<BR>&gt; the most terrifying kind...<BR><BR>You guys are way too&nbsp; paranoid/conspiracy-seeking.&nbsp; Consider&nbsp; who<BR>first mentioned it.&nbsp; I think Gaboo is a&nbsp; small&nbsp; but&nbsp; wide-ranging<BR>LIC&nbsp; that&nbsp; specialises&nbsp; in&nbsp; providing&nbsp; the&nbsp; alternative&nbsp; medicine<BR>industry with some of&nbsp; its&nbsp; more&nbsp; esoteric&nbsp; componants&nbsp; ...&nbsp; like<BR>purified penguin dung&nbsp; (from&nbsp; their&nbsp; own&nbsp; penguin&nbsp; ranches).&nbsp; Its<BR>probably very traditionalist and protective of its trade secrets.<BR>It would have some enemies, of course, like the fanatical Penguin<BR>Liberation&nbsp; Organisation&nbsp; (who&nbsp; evidently&nbsp;&nbsp; infiltrated&nbsp;&nbsp; Petopia<BR>recently).<BR><BR>That's my guess.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1970 06:14:24 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Dreaded Hierarchy<BR><BR>Absolutely. The Hierarchy is just a figment of people's imagination. Ignore anything you've heard about it. Especially regarding the N'Zill.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Tuesday, October 31, 2000, at 03:44 PM, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Alan Bradley wrote: <BR>&gt; &gt; It probably isn't Vilani though - "Gaboo" doesn't look like a <BR>&gt; &gt; Vilani form. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You guys are way too&nbsp; paranoid/conspiracy-seeking. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:10:49 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture<BR><BR>Kiri wrote:<BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; What does everyone else do?&nbsp; Do you play the 3I as America-<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; writ-large, or try to make it different somehow?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Being a Brit, I admit that with my first character was <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; tempted to play someone call St. John-Smythe or Fothering-<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thomas, or something equally unlikely and psuedo-Limey. So<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I made my guy African. Not African-American, but Tanzanian.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; IMHO, he's the coolest character I've ever played.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm also British by birth, and my first Traveller character<BR>&gt; &gt; was a Scandinavian Scout, "Jag" Hansen, who had a confused<BR>&gt; &gt; heritage of bikies and vikings. My second was Negroid Moslem<BR>&gt; &gt; fighter pilot, Hashid Mohammed. It wasn't until my third<BR>&gt; &gt; character, that I indulged my British inclination and created<BR>&gt; &gt; the moustachioed Colonel Waverly Archibald Xerxes (W.A.X)<BR>&gt; &gt; Johnson.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Other than once playing a Marine top sergeant patterned on <BR>&gt; &gt; Clint Eastwood's character in "Heartbreak Ridge", I don't<BR>&gt; &gt; think I've ever specifically played an "American" character<BR>&gt; &gt; in Traveller, or, in the games I've run, ever portrayed the<BR>&gt; &gt; Imperium as American either.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mitsuko Kisaragi haut-Rensselaer is actually the first hapa<BR>&gt; (mixed Asian/non-Asian) character I've ever played; I used to<BR>&gt; make my characters as unlike myself as possible.&nbsp; My first<BR>&gt; Trav character was a bad-girl noblewoman named Julissa Myal<BR>&gt; haut-D'Bari who was half-Vilani; she was followed by a good-<BR>&gt; girl noblewoman who was very unlike me indeed, a testosterone-<BR>&gt; poisoned ace pilot and a Vargr.&nbsp; Then I went through a phase<BR>&gt; of playing gay guys.&nbsp; I haven't played a lot of Japanese gaming <BR>&gt; characters actually.&nbsp; I get annoyed when people do goofy shit<BR>&gt; they THINK is Japanese.<BR><BR>These all sound interesting and I'm curious to know more of them.<BR>A thought has occured to me: how about a net-based rogues gallery<BR>of everyone's old&nbsp; PCs?&nbsp; It&nbsp; could&nbsp; make&nbsp; a&nbsp; useful&nbsp; detailed-NPC<BR>resouce.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:17:10 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Psuedo-Japanese Goofiness (was Re: Culture)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mitsuko Kisaragi haut-Rensselaer is actually the first hapa (mixed<BR>&gt; Asian/non-Asian) character I've ever played; I used to make <BR>&gt; my characters as<BR>&gt; unlike myself as possible.&nbsp; My first Trav character was a bad-girl<BR>&gt; noblewoman named Julissa Myal haut-D'Bari who was half-Vilani; she was<BR>&gt; followed by a good-girl noblewoman who was very unlike me indeed, a<BR>&gt; testosterone-poisoned ace pilot and a Vargr.&nbsp; Then I went <BR>&gt; through a phase of<BR>&gt; playing gay guys.&nbsp; I haven't played a lot of Japanese gaming <BR>&gt; characters<BR>&gt; actually.&nbsp; I get annoyed when people do goofy shit they THINK <BR>&gt; is Japanese.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Kiri, how about Ten Top Tips for playing a believably Japanese character?<BR>I'll do Brits if you want :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:22:15 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeah, OK, sorry, I was thinking of Middle and Old English, <BR>&gt; got the time<BR>&gt; periods wrong.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Though as the majority of people don't get most of <BR>&gt; Shakespeare's jokes,<BR>&gt; including most Shakespearean actors (you can tell they don't <BR>&gt; get the joke,<BR>&gt; because they put the emphasis on the wrong syllables) being <BR>&gt; able to read and<BR>&gt; understand the language are two different things.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>'By my life, this is my lady's hand: these be her C's, her U's, and her T's;<BR>and thus she makes her great P's.'<BR><BR>Classic :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:25:20 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Linguistic survival<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kurt Feltenberger [mailto:kurt@blazenet.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: 30 October 2000 20:51<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Linguistic survival<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 12:38 PM 10/30/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Which is refelcted in the Solomani Confederation's large <BR>&gt; number of "ethnic"<BR>&gt; &gt;states.&nbsp; I've alwayus thought hat once we have FTL, every <BR>&gt; group with an ax<BR>&gt; &gt;to grind is going to take off.&nbsp; You'd have worlds settle by Basques,<BR>&gt; &gt;Ultra-Orthodox Jews, Stalinists, Nazis, Trekkies, Mormons, <BR>&gt; Kurds, etc.,<BR>&gt; &gt;etc., ad naseum.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Makes the Rim a bit more interesting, since you might find a <BR>&gt; planet filled<BR>&gt; &gt;with Hubbardites who are constantly fleecing each other with glee.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Or those strange six pointed *star*ships... :-)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>See the Mel Brooks film 'History of the World' :)<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:43:17 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Linguistic Survival<BR><BR>&lt;Luther Martin&gt;<BR>It's just so darn hard to get serious linguists to worry about the effects<BR>of jump drive and other essential technology on language evolution.<BR>&lt;/LM&gt;<BR><BR>Geez, some people are just so parochial!<BR><BR>&lt;LM&gt;<BR>Actually, upon closer examination, there seems to be little difference<BR>between English and other languages. For example from Middle-French we<BR>have:<BR><BR>Jacques abbe Nimes-able,<BR>Jacques bec couic,<BR>Jacques j'aimes pas voir<BR>Ta canne d'elastique.<BR>&lt;/LM&gt;<BR><BR>Ha ha, views ate tray drawl!<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:55:44 -0700<BR>From: "J. Paul Sanders" &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Library Data<BR><BR>Bravo Fred! Enjoyed both posts!<BR><BR>At 09:58 AM 10/31/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;It occurred to me last night that maybe a more fun way to treat the "what<BR>&gt;has survived" material would be to write up library data passages from<BR>&gt;various regions (the Imperium, the Confederation, the Consulate) that would<BR>&gt;include details on how the works/authors are perceived in the Imperial era,<BR>&gt;as well as providing adventure hooks or red herrings (in the best tradition<BR>&gt;of Library Data).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I've started the ball rolling with the next couple of posts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Fred Ramen<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:34:38 -0800<BR>From: "Simon Hibbs" &lt;simonh_hibbs@my-deja.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Dean :<BR><BR>&gt;Being a Brit, I admit that with my first character was tempted to play<BR>&gt;someone call St. John-Smythe or Fothering-Thomas, or something equally<BR>&gt;unlikely and psuedo-Limey. So I made my guy African. Not African-American,<BR>&gt;but Tanzanian. IMHO, he's the coolest character I've ever played.<BR><BR>My present character is a member of the lost tribe of Israel. After<BR>being abducted by Droyne (winged angels), along with some north american<BR>natives (some of the israelites escaped at this point, but were<BR>recaptured at a later date) they were resettled on a system near the<BR>present day Ithklur free state.<BR><BR>His religion is interesting because they were lost in the Sinai shortly<BR>after escaping egypt, and they still have a lot of egyptian influences<BR>on their culture, alongside the american indian ones. Of course they'd<BR>never heard of King Solomon, David, the Torah, etc. They're still<BR>pretty enthusiastic about blood sacrifices too. He keeps a coop of white<BR>doves in his stateroom, and some goats in cold sleep in a pod in the<BR>hold for special occasions.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Simon Hibbs<BR><BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--<BR>Before you buy.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:49:10 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The interesting things about this Imperium would be at the <BR>&gt; interface of the <BR>&gt; two ideals. How does a world "gain the necessary knowledge"? <BR>&gt; Do they have to <BR>&gt; have developed jump drive,<BR><BR>If that were the case, there'd be no minor races at all. This is the thing I<BR>find hardest to swallow...dozens of species of intelligent life, several<BR>thousand years of history, and only 8 societies developed the J-Drive...3 of<BR>those Humans. And why are humans the only one with minor race off-shoots?<BR>(Droyne don't count). &lt;pout&gt;<BR><BR>or do they make it if they learn via radio <BR>&gt; signals received at their Arecibo-equivalent? <BR><BR>Maybe if they develope interplanetary travel? Going to your moon is all very<BR>well, but in our case we were still pretty immature then. Not that we're<BR>exactly mature NOW.<BR><BR>Are there a few <BR>&gt; oddities that <BR>&gt; have done it via generation ship?<BR><BR>Almost certainly.<BR><BR>What happens when a <BR>&gt; generation ship makes <BR>&gt; contact, but then will take five years to send a radio signal <BR>&gt; back? <BR><BR>Independant colony. The situation would be roughly analogous to the first<BR>landings in the New World.<BR><BR>Do they <BR>&gt; have to sit in cold storage until their civilization <BR>&gt; discovers, via their <BR>&gt; message, that there's a galactic civilization?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I wouldn't have thought so...they'd just have to get on with things the best<BR>they can. If they get discovered by high-tech aliens and join interstellar<BR>society, they'll have to stop talking to home. Or maybe just pretend<BR>nothings happened :)<BR><BR>&gt; If, instead, races can join after detecting radio signals how <BR>&gt; does this <BR>&gt; Imperium know that the world is ready?<BR><BR>3I: Have they got anything worth trading? Remember 'labour' is a commodity.<BR>UFP-Imperium: Hmmm, one-world government is a possibility, although<BR>balkanised worlds are the most fun. Perhaps a lasting peace?<BR><BR>Infiltrators watching <BR>&gt; the news?How <BR>&gt; is this possible with the undoubtedly numerous races that bear no <BR>&gt; resemblance to current member races?<BR><BR>From orbit?<BR><BR>What if an infiltrator <BR>&gt; has his cover <BR>&gt; blown, or a "UFO" crashes and it becomes obvious to a growing <BR>&gt; race that <BR>&gt; there's Someone Out There? Does that count as being aware of <BR>&gt; the galactic <BR>&gt; community?<BR><BR>Which raises the question: What do Star Fleet do in cases of irreversable<BR>cultural contamination? Due to my skepticism over the benevolent, wise<BR>Federation, I'd like to suggest Orbital Bombardment, with M/A warheads or<BR>near-c rocks &gt;:&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; How do they deal with races that don't want to be members? <BR><BR>Star Trek Federation: Fair enough, we'll go away.<BR>Realistic government: We're bigger than you, and we want your minerals. Are<BR>you REALLY sure you don't want to trade?<BR><BR>Races that <BR>&gt; develop jump drive, or even build radio telescopes, have to <BR>&gt; be relatively <BR>&gt; advanced civilizations,with needs and wants of their own. <BR><BR>Agreed. They're likely to be fairly high-pop, so I'd suggest spreading out<BR>and consolidating land, then exploiting the resources to increase the<BR>general tech-level.<BR><BR>&gt; Non-joiners have <BR>&gt; to be common. Does the Imperium bomb them back into <BR>&gt; non-spacefaring status <BR>&gt; and clamp down on them until they change their minds? <BR><BR>The 3I just make it unprofitable for Imperial worlds to trade with the<BR>loners. Eventually they'll get the point. A UFP-Imperium would probably not<BR>trade at all, or maybe limit trade to a set TL.<BR><BR>If so, <BR>&gt; there's got to <BR>&gt; be any number of races that are severely resentful and just <BR>&gt; joined to avoid <BR>&gt; destruction. Doesn't seem very stable.<BR><BR>Agreed. But once they become part of the system and the gravy starts flowing<BR>their way, they'll soon get with the program.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If a race does join, what's effect on a world or solar system <BR>&gt; economy that <BR>&gt; suddenly gets integrated into a galaxy-sized trading area? <BR><BR>Much bigger market place for a start. A lot more competition for local<BR>firms. Looking at Britains entry into the European market, however, I'd<BR>suggest that the local firms retain a lot of their customer base out of<BR>loyalty, and outsource the manufacture of their good to cheaper third<BR>parties. High-tech goods of the same TL as the new member is likely to be<BR>cheaper and more efficient, higher tech goods are either correspondingly<BR>more expensive due to a low exchange rate between the new members currency<BR>or unavailable due to the Prime Directive<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What do they <BR>&gt; trade back, if anything?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What is the philosophical basis for their Prime Directive?<BR><BR>It's to encourage cultural diversity...the thinking is that if low tech<BR>aliens encounter the mighty Federation they'll abandon their quaint<BR>ceremonies and customs and become an Earth franchise. This is something to<BR>be avoided, at least until the world actually JOINS the Federation...then<BR>it's Star Fleet uniforms for everyone!<BR>Also, the Federation is hyper-cautious with it's technology...no<BR>cybernetics, no bio-engineering, the Transporters have a hand-wave that<BR>explains why they're signal-based but don't ACTUALLY kill a person<BR>transporting and ressurrect him on the planet etc. Since humans are fools it<BR>stands to reason that everyone else is too, and in the Star Trek universe<BR>this is true! Those who wish to represent the Federation with GURPS UT, use<BR>the Safetech path to TL12, and throw in TL16 gadgets as necessary.<BR><BR><BR>It <BR>&gt; strikes me as <BR>&gt; pseudo-science to claim that a civilization is only "ready" <BR>&gt; -- whatever that <BR>&gt; is -- when it's space-faring.<BR><BR>It's not scientific at all, it's a matter of opinion, in this case the<BR>opinion of the cultural observer in situ, ratified by the Contact Board/IISS<BR>Contact section.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3243<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (rly-zd05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.229]) by air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:52:58 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:52:15 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA25158;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:51:40 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:50:42 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id MAA25077<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:50:42 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:50:42 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010311750.MAA25077@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3243<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 31 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3244<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>FW: Culture<BR>Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: Culture<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>RE: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>RE: Development of an Imperium<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>Re: FW: Culture<BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>Re: Culture<BR>Re: Culture<BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>Re: Library Data: Ludwig van Beethoven<BR>RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>The TRUE Secret of the Ancients<BR>RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR>Imperium and Fighting Ships auction on ebay<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:49:37 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: FW: Culture<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; These all sound interesting and I'm curious to know more of them.<BR>&gt; A thought has occured to me: how about a net-based rogues gallery<BR>&gt; of everyone's old&nbsp; PCs?&nbsp; It&nbsp; could&nbsp; make&nbsp; a&nbsp; useful&nbsp; detailed-NPC<BR>&gt; resouce.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Indeed. Anyone got hosting space for it?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:55:30 EST<BR>From: RBasler1@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, just a quick note to the list:&nbsp; I made it to Reading, and even <BR>though I might have a couple of days to see the countryside, the area is <BR>flooding, the hotel is now in the middle of a lake (no kidding, I had to get <BR>ferried to the nearest roundabout in a boat), and the trains were shut down.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You guys sure know how to show someone a good time ;o)&nbsp; <BR>(All kidding aside, I'm still having fun - it is a nice country you have <BR>here)&nbsp; And a stack of BITS stuff is due to come into the FLGS tomorrow! <BR>....if only I can get into town again to pick them up.....&lt;grrrrr&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:00:33 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; These all sound interesting and I'm curious to know more of them.<BR>&gt; &gt; A thought has occured to me: how about a net-based rogues gallery<BR>&gt; &gt; of everyone's old&nbsp; PCs?&nbsp; It&nbsp; could&nbsp; make&nbsp; a&nbsp; useful&nbsp; detailed-NPC<BR>&gt; &gt; resouce.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Indeed. Anyone got hosting space for it?<BR><BR>Downport.com has, as always. We continually seek more Traveller to host :-)<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;&gt;&lt;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:09:38<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>At 11:30 PM 10/30/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;"Hope Eyrie" by Leslie Fish. <BR><BR>Leslie has stated that the best rendition of that song was the time she<BR>played it to close out the Challenger Memorial concert.&nbsp; After all the<BR>grief, hearing everyone sing this song of hope really helped.&nbsp; The tape is<BR>avalible from Firebird, amazingly enough.&nbsp; I could have sworn that it was<BR>long out of print.<BR><BR>http://www.firebirdarts.com/5space00.htm#Mark1<BR><BR>Some of the most moving filk you've ever heard.&nbsp; My personal favorite is<BR>Steve Savitsky's "Keep the Dream Alive'<BR><BR>http://thestarport.org/people/steve/Doc/Songs/dream.html<BR><BR>&gt;The words are likely available on the Web, as Leslie encourages folks<BR>&gt;to spread her stuff around, as long as she gets credited.<BR><BR>http://public.logica.com/~stepneys/sf/filk/hopeeyri.htm<BR><BR>Doug the filker.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:12:30 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Well, just a quick note to the list:&nbsp; I made it to <BR>&gt; Reading, and even <BR>&gt; though I might have a couple of days to see the countryside, <BR>&gt; the area is <BR>&gt; flooding, the hotel is now in the middle of a lake (no <BR>&gt; kidding, I had to get <BR>&gt; ferried to the nearest roundabout in a boat), and the trains <BR>&gt; were shut down.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You guys sure know how to show someone a good time ;o)&nbsp; <BR>&gt; (All kidding aside, I'm still having fun - it is a nice <BR>&gt; country you have <BR>&gt; here)&nbsp; And a stack of BITS stuff is due to come into the FLGS <BR>&gt; tomorrow! <BR>&gt; ....if only I can get into town again to pick them up.....&lt;grrrrr&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Oh yeah, for all you non-europeans on-list, we had a hurricane yesterday. I<BR>checked ABCNEWS later in the afternoon, and it was a footnote in the<BR>international section. <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:20:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:29:05 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Region coding is complicated by the format of the signal, however.<BR>&gt; Region 1 disks are also NTSC, European are PAL ( I think Japan is also<BR>&gt; NTSC). I have 2 DVD players, both modified to play all regions, but my<BR>&gt; Pacific Rim model can't handle PAL.&nbsp; My european model can handle PAL<BR>&gt; and NTSC, so that's all right. <BR><BR>Actually, the output analog signal format is independent of the on-disk<BR>digital encoding format, except to the extent that you can optimize the<BR>digital encoding to better match the target resolution.&nbsp; At my old job we<BR>routinely displayed region 1 content to NTSC and PAL as needed, just by<BR>changing the output device.<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; I imagine that one important function of the Imperial government<BR>is helping to fund and otherwise support standards organizations (like our<BR>current ISO and ANSI).&nbsp; Having everyone using the same elecrical voltage<BR>and AC frequency, the same connector types, the same data formats, and all<BR>that good engineering stuff will massively expand trade opportunities<BR>between worlds, which is a central goal of the 3I.<BR><BR>Call it the Interstellar Standards Organization (I almost went for<BR>"Imperial SO", but they'd likely want to make it appear more independent<BR>than that).&nbsp; Imperial purchase contracts (e.g., IN and IISS shipbuilding)<BR>would insist on ISO compliance, and local army units intended as Imperial<BR>levies (or however it's phrased, see a certain upcoming G:T book for<BR>details) would be required to use ISO-compliant equipment as well.&nbsp; And of<BR>course it would be in the best interests of most manufacturers to follow<BR>the standards, just because nearly all of their customers already have ISO<BR>equipment. <BR><BR>An interesting setting would be a world newly admitted to the Imperium,<BR>with moderately high local technology built on different standards.&nbsp; The<BR>ungodly mess of patches and workarounds as they attempted to shift to ISO<BR>compliance would make for...interesting...situations.&nbsp; Especially if, for<BR>example, the characters needed to get some ship maintenance done there.<BR>They could be finding little surprises deep in junction boxes and power<BR>supplies for many cheerful months to come...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:27:33 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>Not on the official list, but widely viewed...<BR><BR>Dark Star!<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>It was blasphemous, it was sacrilegious, and it was a little bit too much fun.<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:28:28 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Call it the Interstellar Standards Organization (I almost went for<BR>&gt; "Imperial SO", but they'd likely want to make it appear more <BR>&gt; independent<BR>&gt; than that).&nbsp; Imperial purchase contracts (e.g., IN and IISS <BR>&gt; shipbuilding)<BR>&gt; would insist on ISO compliance, and local army units intended <BR>&gt; as Imperial<BR>&gt; levies (or however it's phrased, see a certain upcoming G:T book for<BR>&gt; details) would be required to use ISO-compliant equipment as <BR>&gt; well.&nbsp; And of<BR>&gt; course it would be in the best interests of most <BR>&gt; manufacturers to follow<BR>&gt; the standards, just because nearly all of their customers <BR>&gt; already have ISO<BR>&gt; equipment. <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Presumably ISO certification would require that you have you processes well<BR>documented and that you stuck to them? I imagine also that ISO compliancy<BR>evolves over time, requiring that the compliancy cetification be<BR>quantified...presumably by numbers? Would we have reached ISO 9000 by 1120?<BR>:)<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:28:10 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; What happens when a generation ship makes contact, but then will &gt; take <BR>&gt;five years to send a radio signal back? Do they have to sit in &gt; cold <BR>&gt;storage until their civilization discovers, via their message, &gt; that <BR>&gt;there's a galactic civilization?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I wouldn't have thought so...they'd just have to get on with things the <BR>&gt;best they can. If they get discovered by high-tech aliens and join <BR>&gt;interstellar society, they'll have to stop talking to home.<BR><BR>This suggests some interesting thoughts.<BR><BR>First of all, making the generation shippers stop talking to home would <BR>definitely be interfering with their homeworld's culture. After all, instead <BR>of a successful generation ship and (presumably) more attempts at expansion <BR>into space, they've just apparently had the mother of all Challenger <BR>disasters. "All Contact Lost With Btfsplk's First Starship! Crew of Ten <BR>Thousand Presumed Lost!" scream the headlines.<BR><BR>Secondly, as Marc suggested this Imperium would have tremendous problems <BR>with people trying to break the embargo by going under the table. Now we <BR>actually have a group of ex-patriate Btfsplkians that live in the galactic <BR>civilization and are likely to be highly motivated to circumvent it.<BR><BR>Or suppose the crew of the good ship Smkznrf aren't volunteers. Now the <BR>galactic Btfsplkians might move heaven and earth to *prevent* the homeworld <BR>from being opened up. "Serve them right for throwing us humble, hard-working <BR>members of the National Socialist Party of Btfsplk off our own world!" Or <BR>for that matter maybe they'll just pick up a few dozen spine-mounted meson <BR>weapons and re-open the issue of their political differences the day after <BR>Btfsplk is opened to Galactic Civilization.<BR><BR>&gt;3I: Have they got anything worth trading? Remember 'labour' is a commodity.<BR><BR>Another possibility: "It's a cookbook! It's a cookbook!" OK, it's not really <BR>a possibility, but I've been dying to say that all day :)<BR><BR>&gt;From orbit?<BR><BR>Not without some heavy-duty stealth technology, I wouldn't think. Isn't NASA <BR>tracking everything bigger than a breadbox in Earth orbit?<BR><BR>&gt;The 3I just make it unprofitable for Imperial worlds to trade with the<BR>&gt;loners. Eventually they'll get the point.<BR><BR>Fighting back by giving them what they want? They *want* to garbo Imperial <BR>civilization.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;If a race does join, what's effect on a world or solar system<BR>&gt;&gt;economy that suddenly gets integrated into a galaxy-sized trading area?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Much bigger market place for a start. A lot more competition for local<BR>&gt;firms.<BR><BR>I don't know about this. I'd argue that access to bigger markets doesn't do <BR>you much good if the tech gulf is so wide that you've little or nothing to <BR>trade but basic commodities. I'm thinking of Mesoamerica's peaceful and <BR>economically advantageous integration into to the Spanish Empire, for <BR>example. Ahem.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:35:27 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; ObTrav:&nbsp; I imagine that one important function of the Imperial<BR>&gt; government is helping to fund and otherwise support standards<BR>&gt; organizations (like our current ISO and ANSI).&nbsp; Having everyone<BR>&gt; using the same elecrical voltage and AC frequency, the same<BR>&gt; connector types, the same data formats, and all that good<BR>&gt; engineering stuff will massively expand trade opportunities<BR>&gt; between worlds, which is a central goal of the 3I.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Call it the Interstellar Standards Organization (I almost went<BR>&gt; for "Imperial SO", but they'd likely want to make it appear more<BR>&gt; independent than that).&nbsp; Imperial purchase contracts (e.g., IN<BR>&gt; and IISS shipbuilding) would insist on ISO compliance, and local<BR>&gt; army units intended as Imperial levies (or however it's phrased,<BR>&gt; see a certain upcoming G:T book for details) would be required<BR>&gt; to use ISO-compliant equipment as well.&nbsp; And of course it would<BR>&gt; be in the best interests of most manufacturers to follow the<BR>&gt; standards, just because nearly all of their customers already<BR>&gt; have ISO equipment. <BR><BR>I already have something like that IMTU ...&nbsp; but&nbsp; I&nbsp; allow&nbsp; local<BR>deviation.&nbsp; The system I use (posted on my&nbsp; StuffOnline&nbsp; website)<BR>applies&nbsp; to&nbsp; starships&nbsp; and&nbsp; comes&nbsp; with&nbsp; different&nbsp;&nbsp; levels&nbsp;&nbsp; of<BR>compliance (starting with material tolerances&nbsp; and&nbsp; going&nbsp; up&nbsp; to<BR>standard ship designs).<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; An interesting setting would be a world newly admitted to the<BR>&gt; Imperium, with moderately high local technology built on different<BR>&gt; standards.&nbsp; The ungodly mess of patches and workarounds as they<BR>&gt; attempted to shift to ISO compliance would make for...interesting<BR>&gt; ...situations.&nbsp; Especially if, for example, the characters needed<BR>&gt; to get some ship maintenance done there.&nbsp; They could be finding<BR>&gt; little surprises deep in junction boxes and power supplies for<BR>&gt; many cheerful months to come...<BR><BR>Sort of sounds&nbsp; like&nbsp; the&nbsp; situation&nbsp; with&nbsp; the&nbsp; US,&nbsp; the&nbsp; metric<BR>standard, and some expensive space mission failures.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:40:51 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; I'm also British by birth, and my first Traveller character was a<BR>&gt; Scandinavian Scout,<BR>&gt; "Jag" Hansen, who had a confused heritage of bikies and vikings.<BR><BR>"Bikies" ?? Meaning Bikers, as in motorcycle-type folk? <BR><BR>Isn't it in Scandanavia where the Hells Angels and Devils Disciples are<BR>having that, erm, disagreement with things like machine gus and rocket<BR>launchers? Methinks that Biker and Viking don't necessarily confuse<BR>heritages all that much at all ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:41:14 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; Presumably ISO certification would require that you have you<BR>&gt; processes well documented and that you stuck to them? I imagine<BR>&gt; also that ISO compliancy evolves over time, requiring that the<BR>&gt; compliancy cetification be quantified...presumably by numbers?<BR>&gt; Would we have reached ISO 9000 by 1120?<BR>&gt; :)<BR><BR>Having just gone through an ISO 9001 audit at work ...<BR><BR>I see a titanic battle between two&nbsp; Godzilla-like&nbsp; monsters:&nbsp; the<BR>"non-standard" monster Vs the "ISO bureaucracy" monster&nbsp; ...&nbsp; and<BR>the poor Imperium squished underfoot.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:14:16 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FW: Culture<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; These all sound interesting and I'm curious to know more of them.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; A thought has occured to me: how about a net-based rogues gallery<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; of everyone's old&nbsp; PCs?&nbsp; It&nbsp; could&nbsp; make&nbsp; a&nbsp; useful&nbsp; detailed-NPC<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; resouce.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Indeed. Anyone got hosting space for it?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I do, and i'm looking for content.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:26:24 -0800<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Actually, I think the question isn't which books survived the Long Night but<BR>&gt; &gt; which ones didn't.&nbsp; With things like the Gutenberg Project I see a time when<BR>&gt; &gt; all published works may be preserved in an electronic form.&nbsp; With todays<BR>&gt; &gt; technology huge amounts of text can be stored on a CD (let alone DVD).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; DVDs are an example of why things might *not* survive.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The data on a DVD is *encrypted*. Which means that without a good idea<BR>&gt; of what the original data is supposed to look like (or a functioning<BR>&gt; reader) it'll be very hard if not impossible to restore the data.<BR><BR>DVDs are a poor example of a valid principle, Leonard. I think more people <BR>have access to code which _decrypts_ DVDs than to the rest of the code <BR>required to make a working DVD playback system. DeCSS is probably the most <BR>widely distributed code snippet since the four-line "this is a munition" <BR>128-bit encryption script.<BR><BR>A wide variety of "expressions" of the decryptor can be found at:<BR><BR>http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/index.html<BR><BR>For more general info, see:<BR><BR>http://www.lemuria.org/DeCSS/<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:46:53 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR>I certainly be up to hosting such a 'rogues gallery' on Trevellercentral.com<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>To: "'TML'" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 9:49 AM<BR>Subject: FW: Culture<BR><BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; These all sound interesting and I'm curious to know more of them.<BR>&gt; &gt; A thought has occured to me: how about a net-based rogues gallery<BR>&gt; &gt; of everyone's old&nbsp; PCs?&nbsp; It&nbsp; could&nbsp; make&nbsp; a&nbsp; useful&nbsp; detailed-NPC<BR>&gt; &gt; resouce.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Indeed. Anyone got hosting space for it?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:48:22 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR>Note that we have quite a few character and NPCs posted on<BR>travellercentral.com.&nbsp; Borrow as you will.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 10:00 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR><BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; These all sound interesting and I'm curious to know more of them.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; A thought has occured to me: how about a net-based rogues gallery<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; of everyone's old&nbsp; PCs?&nbsp; It&nbsp; could&nbsp; make&nbsp; a&nbsp; useful&nbsp; detailed-NPC<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; resouce.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Indeed. Anyone got hosting space for it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Downport.com has, as always. We continually seek more Traveller to host<BR>:-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;&gt;&lt;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>&gt; Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>&gt; www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:51:49 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; ObTrav:&nbsp; I imagine that one important function of the Imperial government<BR>&gt; is helping to fund and otherwise support standards organizations (like our<BR>&gt; current ISO and ANSI).&nbsp; Having everyone using the same elecrical voltage<BR>&gt; and AC frequency, the same connector types, the same data formats, and all<BR>&gt; that good engineering stuff will massively expand trade opportunities<BR>&gt; between worlds, which is a central goal of the 3I.<BR><BR>Ahh, much in the same way that the European union has standardized their<BR>electrical plugs... &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:00:24 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; A wide variety of "expressions" of the decryptor can be found at:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/index.html<BR><BR>Yah gotta wonder why some OS whack hasn't had the DeCSS tattoed on his<BR>body in some form.<BR><BR>Be interesting to hear the studios lawyers arguing for skinning someone<BR>in court...<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:12:16 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>Jones, Dean wrote :<BR>&gt; Writers famous for their output of nauseating formula romances. Mills and<BR>&gt; Boon can even be considered a genre.<BR><BR>The genre is "Romantic Fiction for Women"<BR>Mills &amp; Boon are not the only purveyors, just the best known.<BR><BR>&gt; I'm not sure if Mills and Boon are even real people, or<BR>&gt; just pseudonyms under which this sugery slush is<BR>&gt; published.<BR><BR>It's the name of the _publisher_ not the authors, and yes they are (or were)<BR>real people.<BR><BR>Though many of the authors use pseudos 'cause they don't want to be<BR>associated with the stuff.<BR><BR>Others have embraced it and became famouds for it. Prioncess Diana's<BR>grandmother(?) Barbara Cartland ,is one of the latter.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:18:24 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 1 November 2000 02:29<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Worse yet, due to the "country coding", playing the same DVD in<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; different players will provide a *different* output!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In all the examples I've seen region coding affects output in&nbsp; an<BR>&gt; &gt; all-or-nothing way rather than *modifiying* the&nbsp; output.&nbsp; Besides<BR>&gt; &gt; which getting the region code&nbsp; processing&nbsp; function&nbsp; disabled&nbsp; is<BR>&gt; &gt; fairly routine for&nbsp; consumers&nbsp; so&nbsp; just&nbsp; about&nbsp; everyone&nbsp; I&nbsp; know<BR>&gt; &gt; (including myself) has&nbsp; had&nbsp; it&nbsp; done.&nbsp; (Half&nbsp; my&nbsp; collection&nbsp; is<BR>&gt; &gt; Region 1 (US and Canada) and half are Region&nbsp; 2&nbsp; (Europe,&nbsp; Middle<BR>&gt; &gt; East, South Africa,&nbsp; Japan).)&nbsp; The&nbsp; current&nbsp; practice&nbsp; of&nbsp; Region<BR>&gt; &gt; coding will only last until the industry accepts that we live&nbsp; in<BR>&gt; &gt; a global economy (though there will no doubt&nbsp; be&nbsp; further&nbsp; doomed<BR>&gt; &gt; attempts at enforced denial of this fact first).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Region coding is complicated by the format of the signal,<BR>&gt; however. Region 1 disks are also NTSC, European are PAL<BR>&gt; ( I think Japan is also NTSC). I have 2&nbsp; DVD players,<BR>&gt; both modified to play all regions, but my Pacific Rim model can't handle<BR>&gt; PAL.&nbsp; My european model can handle PAL and NTSC, so that's all right.<BR><BR>That's a problem for videos and TV's, not DVDs. All DVD's use the same<BR>encoding format.<BR><BR>While the _output_ of your DVD _player_ may be one or the other (or both)<BR>the DVD's themselves are the same format. If you find that you can't play a<BR>particular DVD in a particular player, it is probably due to the age of the<BR>player, and the software version required by that particular DVD, not the<BR>basic encoding format.<BR><BR>If what you said was true, I would be unable to display my Region 1 DVD's on<BR>my PAL television set here in New Zealand.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:07:49 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Library Data: Ludwig van Beethoven<BR><BR>They defile the Ninth!<BR>Death! Death to them All!<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:26:13 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson wrote :<BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm also British by birth, and my first Traveller character was a<BR>&gt; &gt; Scandinavian Scout, "Jag" Hansen, who had a confused heritage of<BR>&gt; &gt; bikies and vikings.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Bikies" ?? Meaning Bikers, as in motorcycle-type folk?<BR><BR>Yep.<BR><BR>&gt; Isn't it in Scandanavia where the Hells Angels and Devils Disciples are<BR>&gt; having that, erm, disagreement with things like machine gus and rocket<BR>&gt; launchers? Methinks that Biker and Viking don't necessarily confuse<BR>&gt; heritages all that much at all ;-)<BR><BR>Well, yes, but what I meant was that he was from a culture which had mixed<BR>the two up, so for instance, there were the stories he told about Thor's<BR>Hogs, Harley and Vincent.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:32:37 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; Well, yes, but what I meant was that he was from a culture which had mixed<BR>&gt;the two up, so for instance, there were the stories he told about Thor's<BR>&gt;Hogs, Harley and Vincent.<BR><BR>Said Thor to one-eyed Odin, <BR>"My hat's off to you<BR>They call it a Vincent 1952..."<BR><BR>(apologies to R. Thompson; I'll leave it to filk-veterans to adapt the whole song)<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:35:45 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The TRUE Secret of the Ancients<BR><BR>Hans Rancke-Madsen has an article on JTAS this week about the real secret of<BR>the Ancients--an alternate scenario than the OTU "Droyne did it"<BR>explanation.<BR><BR>All I'm going to say is that his rationale for the Rebellion makes as much<BR>sense (or more, even) than the Official one :)<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:50:45 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gurps Trav: The best books to own?<BR><BR>At 13:34 -0400 27/10/00,&nbsp; "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;I have the original GURPS Space and the current edition is, what,<BR>&gt;3rd?&nbsp; I'd like to ask: how much has changed in&nbsp; GURPS Space&nbsp; from<BR>&gt;the original to the current edition, and is it&nbsp; worth&nbsp; buying&nbsp; an<BR>&gt;uptodate copy?<BR><BR>Pete,<BR><BR>I'll be at Dragonmeet in November. Let me know if you are and I'll <BR>bring my third edition for you to look at.<BR><BR>Dom (email back up, new hard drive in 21 days)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:01:56 -0600<BR>From: Donald McKinney &lt;dmckinne@amdocs.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Imperium and Fighting Ships auction on ebay<BR><BR>Imperium (1977 Conflict Game Company edition)<BR>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=485544349<BR><BR>Fighting Ships (Traveller Supplement 9)<BR>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=485539527<BR><BR><BR>DonM.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3244<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:03:50 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:03:13 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA41038;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:02:36 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:02:29 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA41008<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:02:29 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:02:29 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010312102.QAA41008@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3244<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 31 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3245<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Library Data: George Orwell<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR>Re: Development of an Imperium<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>Re: Amber Zone? (was Re: Linguistic survival)<BR>Traditions<BR>Sky Hooks<BR>Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Sky Hooks<BR>RE: Culture<BR>Re: FW: Culture<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>[OT] Weapon Question<BR>Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:02:57 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Library Data: George Orwell<BR><BR>"VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Orwell, George: (-2597 to -2550): Pre-Starflight Solomani essayist and<BR>&gt;novelist. His best known work, "1984" (the title refers to the year it was<BR>&gt;written in the Solomani date system), is remarkable for its prescient vision<BR>&gt;of life in the Zhodani Consulate, and, ironically, the Solomani<BR>&gt;Confederation. [1]<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Library Data<BR><BR>A separate entry found in the same 'edition' of Library Data:<BR><BR>Blair, Eric (-2597 to -2550) Pre-starflight Solomani broadcaster and<BR>popular writer.&nbsp; Noted for his travel books covering the Terran<BR>regions of Myanmar, Spain, France and Britain.&nbsp; His best-known work,<BR>the children's novel Animal Farm, has not survived, but its depiction<BR>of anthropomorphised animals taking the place of humans was a major<BR>cultural influence in the following half century (see Disney, Walt).<BR>&nbsp; - Library Data<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:13:41 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; Well, yes, but what I meant was that he was from a culture which had mixed<BR>&gt; the two up, so for instance, there were the stories he told about Thor's<BR>&gt; Hogs, Harley and Vincent.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>LOL! And surely there's the tales of Loki (who as a trickster has GOT to<BR>ride a Ducati) and the Gods doomsday battles against the Rice Giants...<BR><BR>(We'd have to rename the Valkyries, though...;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:30:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Well, yes, but what I meant was that he was from a culture which had mixed<BR>&gt; &gt; the two up, so for instance, there were the stories he told about Thor's<BR>&gt; &gt; Hogs, Harley and Vincent.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; LOL! And surely there's the tales of Loki (who as a trickster has GOT to<BR>&gt; ride a Ducati) and the Gods doomsday battles against the Rice Giants...<BR>&gt; <BR>Please tell me they are not named Goldar and Silvar.&nbsp; (a no-prize to the<BR>person that gets this)<BR><BR>&gt; have to rename the Valkyries...?<BR><BR>Hmm, well, you know, my name means "fog", and my best local gf's name<BR>means "snow child" and in the most common nickname is shortened to just<BR>"snow" and we used to tell guys that hit on us in bars:<BR><BR>"Ki o tsukete, Yuki to Kiri wa abunai tenki!"<BR><BR>(Be careful, Yuki and Kiri are dangerous weather!)<BR><BR>Kiri@sillyhapachick.com&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>(the latest new guys are Taka &amp; Ken, and if anyone comes after the latter<BR>with a forklift, I'll have to space you... I'll try for that 2I crown<BR>again later, after a breather...)<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:00:54 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:56:03 -0500 (EST), Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Can anyone help this man? Please send replies to lkw@io.com<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: Info re Hinterworlds Sector<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I have recently obtained a print-map of the Hinterlands Sector, however the<BR>&gt;&gt;printout had no listing of what each alignment was, and while the alignment<BR>&gt;&gt;codes for the Imperium, Solomani Confederation and for Client states were<BR>&gt;&gt;easy to determine I am unsure as to what the rest of the codes are.<BR><BR>I can't give you conclusive, detailed answers, as my Traveller stuff - and<BR>specifically the Challenge issue that gave an in-depth profile of this<BR>sector (#39?) - is packed up for my upcoming move, but here's what is stuck<BR>in my memory...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;What I am interested in are the names of the major political units and how<BR>&gt;&gt;they are aligned to the major powers (eg 3rd Imperium, Solomai Confederation<BR>&gt;&gt;&amp; Hive Federation), the units in the Hinterworlds are:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;1. Ra<BR><BR>Ral Ranta.&nbsp; IIRC, Imperial leanings.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;2. Ow<BR><BR>Outcasts of the Whispering Sky.&nbsp; Non-human, very paranoid.&nbsp; One of their<BR>worlds is an incomplete Ringworld.&nbsp; Consider them to be off-limits; all<BR>worlds at least amber-zone equivalent.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;3. Ac<BR><BR>Anubian Trade Coalition<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;4. Cu<BR><BR>Cytralian Union.&nbsp; Solomani leanings, IIRC.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;5. Gi<BR><BR>The Gniivi.&nbsp; Non-human, IIRC.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;6. Lp<BR><BR>Council of Leh Perash. Hiver leanings, IIRC.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;This information will be of great use to me as my current campaign will be<BR>&gt;&gt;heading into this region shortly.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:41:04 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:43:36 -0500 (EST), "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>wrote:<BR><BR>[Replying to me]<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Suppose we build an Imperium on _both_ of those principles: The Imperium <BR>&gt;&gt;rules the space between the worlds, and mandates fair trade (i.e., no <BR>&gt;&gt;discriminatory tariffs), but limits membership to those worlds that show <BR>&gt;&gt;evidence of knowledge of the existence of the interstellar community, and <BR>&gt;&gt;red zones (and enforces the interdiction!) those which have not reached <BR>&gt;&gt;that level.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;What would such an Imperium look like?<BR><BR>&gt;The interesting things about this Imperium would be at the interface of the <BR>&gt;two ideals. How does a world "gain the necessary knowledge"? Do they have to <BR>&gt;have developed jump drive, or do they make it if they learn via radio <BR>&gt;signals received at their Arecibo-equivalent? Are there a few oddities that <BR>&gt;have done it via generation ship? What happens when a generation ship makes <BR>&gt;contact, but then will take five years to send a radio signal back? Do they <BR>&gt;have to sit in cold storage until their civilization discovers, via their <BR>&gt;message, that there's a galactic civilization?<BR><BR>Referee's discretion.&nbsp; The novel Prime Directive took the path of 'there<BR>are too many unexplained UFO sightings from too many reliable observers. We<BR>must find out why.' and that led to development of crude transtator<BR>technology, which in turn meant that they could know that there was<BR>Somebody Out There.&nbsp; But that's not the only way.&nbsp; If you take the movie<BR>Star Trek: First Contact as 'canonical', Earth met the Vulcans because a<BR>Vulcan ship detected the emissions of Earth's first crude warp drive on its<BR>maiden flight.<BR><BR>&gt;If, instead, races can join after detecting radio signals how does this <BR>&gt;Imperium know that the world is ready? Infiltrators watching the news? How <BR>&gt;is this possible with the undoubtedly numerous races that bear no <BR>&gt;resemblance to current member races? What if an infiltrator has his cover <BR>&gt;blown, or a "UFO" crashes and it becomes obvious to a growing race that <BR>&gt;there's Someone Out There? Does that count as being aware of the galactic <BR>&gt;community?<BR><BR>Gee, it sounds like you may have some adventure seeds here... :)<BR><BR>&gt;How do they deal with races that don't want to be members? Races that <BR>&gt;develop jump drive, or even build radio telescopes, have to be relatively <BR>&gt;advanced civilizations,with needs and wants of their own. Non-joiners have <BR>&gt;to be common. Does the Imperium bomb them back into non-spacefaring status <BR>&gt;and clamp down on them until they change their minds? If so, there's got to <BR>&gt;be any number of races that are severely resentful and just joined to avoid <BR>&gt;destruction. Doesn't seem very stable.<BR><BR>Referee's discretion, again.&nbsp; What would happen if the WTO said to the Free<BR>Republic of East Ishkabibble, "Join the WTO or the WTO will institute a<BR>complete embargo on trade with you."?<BR><BR>&gt;If a race does join, what's effect on a world or solar system economy that <BR>&gt;suddenly gets integrated into a galaxy-sized trading area? What do they <BR>&gt;trade back, if anything?<BR><BR>When you've written some answers to that, let us know. :)<BR><BR>&gt;What is the philosophical basis for their Prime Directive? It strikes me as <BR>&gt;pseudo-science to claim that a civilization is only "ready" -- whatever that <BR>&gt;is -- when it's space-faring.<BR><BR>Maybe it is pseudoscience, or junk science.&nbsp; Maybe it's psychohistorical in<BR>its implication.&nbsp; Whatever the definition of 'ready', and whatever the<BR>philosophical underpinning of the policy, will affect the character of the<BR>resulting polity.&nbsp; That's why I asked the question and left it so open -<BR>there are at least as many answers as there are people to respond.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:55:30 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Well, yes, but what I meant was that he was from a culture which had mixed<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; the two up, so for instance, there were the stories he told about Thor's<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hogs, Harley and Vincent.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; LOL! And surely there's the tales of Loki (who as a trickster has GOT to<BR>&gt; &gt; ride a Ducati) and the Gods doomsday battles against the Rice Giants...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; Please tell me they are not named Goldar and Silvar.&nbsp; (a no-prize to the<BR>&gt; person that gets this)<BR><BR>Guess I'll just have to Wing it then ;-P<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:02:28 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>On 30 Oct 00, at 22:51, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; group of players in a campaign of mine were horified when the visited <BR>&gt; &gt; Capital and found that the cultural highlight of the season was Princess<BR>&gt; &gt; Ciencia Iphegenia doing a public reading of selected works by the great 20th<BR>&gt; &gt; Century writers Mills &amp; Boon.<BR><BR>&gt; Who?<BR><BR>&gt; (or is that the point?)<BR><BR>Mills &amp; Boon are probably the best known publisher of romantic fiction for <BR>women. They put out formula books in bulk (many titles per month) by <BR>various authors. Their books have strong overt erotic content (full of soft <BR>yeilding womanhood giving way to strong firm manhood etc) and are very <BR>specifically targeted at women.<BR><BR>The intended effect was that this (currently derrided as sugery pap) was <BR>seen in the 57th C as classic literary culture.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:44:18 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 6:12 PM<BR>Subject: RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Well, just a quick note to the list:&nbsp; I made it to<BR>&gt; &gt; Reading, and even<BR>&gt; &gt; though I might have a couple of days to see the countryside,<BR>&gt; &gt; the area is<BR>&gt; &gt; flooding, the hotel is now in the middle of a lake (no<BR>&gt; &gt; kidding, I had to get<BR>&gt; &gt; ferried to the nearest roundabout in a boat), and the trains<BR>&gt; &gt; were shut down.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You guys sure know how to show someone a good time ;o)<BR>&gt; &gt; (All kidding aside, I'm still having fun - it is a nice<BR>&gt; &gt; country you have<BR>&gt; &gt; here)&nbsp; And a stack of BITS stuff is due to come into the FLGS<BR>&gt; &gt; tomorrow!<BR>&gt; &gt; ....if only I can get into town again to pick them up.....&lt;grrrrr&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh yeah, for all you non-europeans on-list, we had a hurricane<BR>yesterday. I<BR>&gt; checked ABCNEWS later in the afternoon, and it was a footnote in the<BR>&gt; international section.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>Yeah, and also snow, tornados, &amp; vast areas of the country flooded. In<BR>the last 2 days. Biblical, almost... Makes you think that maybe the year<BR>2000 *is* significant... &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:10:18 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On 30 Oct 00, at 22:51, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; group of players in a campaign of mine were horified when the visited <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Capital and found that the cultural highlight of the season was Princess<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ciencia Iphegenia doing a public reading of selected works by the great 20th<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Century writers Mills &amp; Boon.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Who?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; (or is that the point?)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mills &amp; Boon are probably the best known publisher of romantic fiction for <BR>&gt; women. They put out formula books in bulk (many titles per month) by <BR>&gt; various authors. Their books have strong overt erotic content (full of soft <BR>&gt; yeilding womanhood giving way to strong firm manhood etc) and are very <BR>&gt; specifically targeted at women.<BR>&gt; <BR>Although I have three shelves full of shoujo manga (Japanese girls<BR>comics), I don't think I would know Mills &amp; Boon stuff if it bit me on the<BR>butt.&nbsp; Unless that's another name for Silhouette (barf) or Harlequin<BR>(double barf).<BR><BR>I love romance and sex.&nbsp; But I want them to be integrated into some kind<BR>of plot, and I want this to be done appropriately (I almost died laughing<BR>when the silly twit in "Independence Day" started trying to make amends<BR>for their breakup while her ex was trying to figure out how to save the<BR>planet!).<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:10 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Amber Zone? (was Re: Linguistic survival)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;dvurvso24lhosdv6mj6lse7k5c7cgn3klg@4ax.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts, especially Jeff.<BR><BR>The TRAVELLER scenario I wrote for GenConUK this year involved a first <BR>contact with a totally unknown species who not only had a language with no <BR>common linguistic roots but also spoke on a far higher frequency than did <BR>the 6 human Scouts who encountered them!<BR><BR>It went down quite well, although it was rather hard on the DM's throat <BR>:-)<BR><BR>!klick chirp squeak<BR><BR>I gave the scenario to BITS so you, Jeff. will have to ask them if you <BR>want to have it.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:33:08 -0500<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Traditions<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well since we seem to be taking about things that still around, why<BR>don't we talk about things that stick around for no other reason than the<BR>fact that people have been doing it for years.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; What kind of traditions and superstitions do you use in you games?&nbsp; I<BR>know of one canon tradition right off the top of my head (Pilots of Vilani<BR>decent dim the lights before jump) but what other nonsensical stuff is still<BR>floating around in space?&nbsp; Do spacers of Solomani decent spit over there<BR>shoulders before entering a ghost ship?&nbsp; Are cats responsible for ion<BR>storms?&nbsp; Are there any equivalent to old time sea shanties?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The game I'm currently running (BTW if anyone on the list is residing in<BR>the NE Ohio region and would like to play LMK) I have a Lab ship crewed<BR>almost entirely by ex-naval (1 Commander, 1 Master Chief, 1 Petty) and the<BR>rest are all well experienced spacers.&nbsp; I feel adding some traditions would<BR>help the players out in the role-playing dept.<BR><BR>Anthony<BR>acoloset@kent.edu<BR><BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:42:41 -0500<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Sky Hooks<BR><BR>Ok this question goes out to all you gearheads...Does a Sky hook have to be<BR>connected to a terrestrial world or can it remain in a low geostationary<BR>orbit?&nbsp; I'm looking for a non-gravitic way to move object into orbit.&nbsp; I<BR>figure if a station in low orbit can have a small tower/elevator project<BR>into the upper atmosphere than all you would have to do is use vectored<BR>thrust VTOLs to land on the lower dock and then transfer cargo/passengers<BR>into higher orbit using the elevator.&nbsp; If this is completely implausible<BR>then feel free to tell me.&nbsp; If anyone has other suggestions for cheap<BR>alternatives to get cargo and people into orbit I'd be willing to hear those<BR>too...<BR><BR>Anthony<BR>acoloset@kent.edu<BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:05:57 -0600<BR>From: D Smart &lt;dsmart@imagin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry shared:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Some of the most moving filk you've ever heard.&nbsp; My personal favorite is<BR>&gt; Steve Savitsky's "Keep the Dream Alive'<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://thestarport.org/people/steve/Doc/Songs/dream.html<BR><BR>Wow.<BR><BR>Let me rephrase that.<BR><BR>WOW!<BR><BR>It's been a long time since a filk choked me up.<BR><BR>Thanks, Doug.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:35:56 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sky Hooks<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ok this question goes out to all you gearheads...Does a Sky hook have to be<BR>&gt; connected to a terrestrial world or can it remain in a low geostationary<BR>&gt; orbit?&nbsp; I'm looking for a non-gravitic way to move object into orbit.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; figure if a station in low orbit can have a small tower/elevator project<BR>&gt; into the upper atmosphere than all you would have to do is use vectored<BR>&gt; thrust VTOLs to land on the lower dock and then transfer cargo/passengers<BR>&gt; into higher orbit using the elevator.&nbsp; If this is completely implausible<BR>&gt; then feel free to tell me.&nbsp; If anyone has other suggestions for cheap<BR>&gt; alternatives to get cargo and people into orbit I'd be willing to hear those<BR>&gt; too...<BR><BR>**disclaimer:&nbsp; I am not a professional engineer**<BR><BR>On the face of it, your proposal seems far more hazardous than a<BR>traditional Beanstalk.&nbsp; After all, your satellite would be subject to<BR>aerodynamic forces, without the stabilizing influence of connection to<BR>the world in question.&nbsp; The atmospheric drag would tend to pull the<BR>"hook-ellite" back into the atmosphere, with predictably unpleasant<BR>consequences.<BR><BR>I suggest you look into mass-driver and laser-boost systems as non-grav<BR>boost methods (at least for cargo).&nbsp; While I'm not sure of their<BR>feasibility (as I said, I'm not an engineer), they at least have some<BR>plausibility among SF fans.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:36:16 -0800<BR>From: Bill &lt;beast@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture<BR><BR>&gt;Kiri wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; I wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; What does everyone else do?&nbsp; Do you play the 3I as America-<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; writ-large, or try to make it different somehow?<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Being a Brit, I admit that with my first character was<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; tempted to play someone call St. John-Smythe or Fothering-<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Thomas, or something equally unlikely and psuedo-Limey. So<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; I made my guy African. Not African-American, but Tanzanian.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; IMHO, he's the coolest character I've ever played.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; I'm also British by birth, and my first Traveller character<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; was a Scandinavian Scout, "Jag" Hansen, who had a confused<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; heritage of bikies and vikings. My second was Negroid Moslem<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; fighter pilot, Hashid Mohammed. It wasn't until my third<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; character, that I indulged my British inclination and created<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; the moustachioed Colonel Waverly Archibald Xerxes (W.A.X)<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Johnson.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Other than once playing a Marine top sergeant patterned on<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Clint Eastwood's character in "Heartbreak Ridge", I don't<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; think I've ever specifically played an "American" character<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; in Traveller, or, in the games I've run, ever portrayed the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Imperium as American either.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Mitsuko Kisaragi haut-Rensselaer is actually the first hapa<BR>&gt;&gt; (mixed Asian/non-Asian) character I've ever played; I used to<BR>&gt;&gt; make my characters as unlike myself as possible.&nbsp; My first<BR>&gt;&gt; Trav character was a bad-girl noblewoman named Julissa Myal<BR>&gt;&gt; haut-D'Bari who was half-Vilani; she was followed by a good-<BR>&gt;&gt; girl noblewoman who was very unlike me indeed, a testosterone-<BR>&gt;&gt; poisoned ace pilot and a Vargr.&nbsp; Then I went through a phase<BR>&gt;&gt; of playing gay guys.&nbsp; I haven't played a lot of Japanese gaming<BR>&gt;&gt; characters actually.&nbsp; I get annoyed when people do goofy shit<BR>&gt;&gt; they THINK is Japanese.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;These all sound interesting and I'm curious to know more of them.<BR>&gt;A thought has occured to me: how about a net-based rogues gallery<BR>&gt;of everyone's old&nbsp; PCs?&nbsp; It&nbsp; could&nbsp; make&nbsp; a&nbsp; useful&nbsp; detailed-NPC<BR>&gt;resouce.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Regards PLST<BR><BR>Being an American I have tried a couple of different culturally <BR>diverse characters. I tend towards the rather linear thinkers and <BR>doers though. Then have to really play hard to keep them from getting <BR>caught up in a lot of political entanglements. Our GM loves to get <BR>political on our poor player butts. I think my two most favorite <BR>characters are a couple of Russian characters. Viktor (my only <BR>political animal, but he only does it for his wife and son) Then <BR>there is Nicoali. A real trouble magnet. If there are projectiles <BR>flying he is usually in the middle of it. I have read some about <BR>Russian culture. However I'm by no means an expert on the subject. I <BR>do enjoy inserting some of what I've read into the personality of the <BR>character though. For instance. Nicolai fancies tea and poetry <BR>(Russian of course), when he isn't engaged in massive destruction of <BR>life and property. Nicolai is also Solomani. So for him it's a much <BR>greater superiority complex. ;)<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:39:25 -0800<BR>From: Bill &lt;beast@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FW: Culture<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; These all sound interesting and I'm curious to know more of them.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; A thought has occured to me: how about a net-based rogues gallery<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;of everyone's old&nbsp; PCs?&nbsp; It&nbsp; could&nbsp; make&nbsp; a&nbsp; useful&nbsp; detailed-NPC<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;resouce.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Indeed. Anyone got hosting space for it?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I do, and i'm looking for content.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>Our GM has a listing of all our player characters as well as a large <BR>number of NPC's on his website<BR>www.travellercentral.com<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:10:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Their first problem was that they didn't have all the proper letters in<BR>&gt; their typeset. So they began using "th" to replace the two letters thry<BR>&gt; didn't have (One that kind of looks like a "Y" and one that kind of looks<BR>&gt; like a Rho, which is why you still see signs that seem to read "Ye Old Book<BR>&gt; Shop". It's still "The", but the "th" is replaced by the proper letter.) (I<BR>&gt; know I could look up their proper names, but its too late here :).)<BR><BR>"Thorn" and "eth".<BR><BR>character&nbsp; thorn&nbsp; eth<BR>set&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; uc lc&nbsp; uc lc<BR>- ---------&nbsp; -- --&nbsp; -- --<BR>cp850&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>cp861&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Latin-1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Latin-6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Mac-Latin&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>NeXT&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>HP Roman8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:17:34 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [OT] Weapon Question<BR><BR>Apologies to the list.<BR><BR>This is for those prior service folks or gun buffs on the list.<BR><BR>I am looking for the FM or other reference material detailing head spacing<BR>and timing of the M2 .50 cal MG.&nbsp; If you have this info or know where I can<BR>get it, please let me know.&nbsp; If it is in faxable or email form, even better.<BR><BR>We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:57:49 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/29/00 7:08:41 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; You run into the problem soldiers face when trying to attract the attention<BR>of a single officer in a group.&nbsp; Just saying "Excuse me sir" will get<BR>everybody's attention, but "Excuse me, Captain Shoaf?" Will target it to<BR>the one officer involved. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>I've got to yank your chain Doug...) Just how many times will your group of <BR>PC's run into a gaggle of Dukes in one room? You must run REAL high level <BR>campaigns...:-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:44:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; You _have_ to add <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Legacy of Heorot<BR><BR>Don't forget the sequel "Beowulf's Children". Nor the other<BR>Niven/Barnes collaboration set in the same universe (but a different<BR>star system)...<BR><BR>I can't recall the title of that last one, but it's an object lesson in<BR>what lack of a trace element can do to you.<BR><BR>There's also a Poul Anderson short story that deals with a biochemical<BR>"quirk" in a lost colony. A rather nasty one. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3245<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:09:48 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:09:13 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA75830;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:08:21 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:08:07 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA75743<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:08:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:08:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011010408.XAA75743@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3245<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 1 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3246<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>Re: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>Re: What Music Survived?<BR>Re: Development of an Imperium<BR>RE: [OT] Weapon Question<BR>Re: Library Data: George Orwell<BR>Library Data: Thomas Jefferson<BR>Re: Library Data: Ludwig van Beethoven<BR>Re: Sky Hooks<BR>Library Data: Albert Einstein<BR>English-language world domination?<BR>Re: Sky Hooks<BR>Re: Sky Hooks<BR>RE: English-language world domination?<BR>Re Culture?<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>TML world domination? (was RE: English-language world domination? )<BR>Re: Books that survived...<BR>RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>RE: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:59:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Actually, I think the question isn't which books survived the Long Night <BR>&gt; but<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; which ones didn't.&nbsp; With things like the Gutenberg Project I see a time <BR>&gt; when<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; all published works may be preserved in an electronic form.&nbsp; With todays<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; technology huge amounts of text can be stored on a CD (let alone DVD).<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; DVDs are an example of why things might *not* survive.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; The data on a DVD is *encrypted*. Which means that without a good idea<BR>&gt;&gt; of what the original data is supposed to look like (or a functioning<BR>&gt;&gt; reader) it'll be very hard if not impossible to restore the data.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; DVDs are a poor example of a valid principle, Leonard. I think more people <BR>&gt; have access to code which _decrypts_ DVDs than to the rest of the code <BR>&gt; required to make a working DVD playback system. DeCSS is probably the most <BR>&gt; widely distributed code snippet since the four-line "this is a munition" <BR>&gt; 128-bit encryption script.<BR><BR>Sure, but that code is useless if you have DVD *player* rather than a<BR>DVD *drive*.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:48:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Worse yet, due to the "country coding", playing the same DVD in<BR>&gt;&gt; different players will provide a *different* output!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In all the examples I've seen region coding affects output in&nbsp; an<BR>&gt; all-or-nothing way rather than *modifiying* the&nbsp; output. <BR><BR>From what I've heard, region coding will add/remove *scenes* and could<BR>possibly swap them (ie you get scene A in one region, scene B in another).<BR><BR>&gt; Besides<BR>&gt; which getting the region code&nbsp; processing&nbsp; function&nbsp; disabled&nbsp; is<BR>&gt; fairly routine for&nbsp; consumers&nbsp; so&nbsp; just&nbsp; about&nbsp; everyone&nbsp; I&nbsp; know<BR>&gt; (including myself) has&nbsp; had&nbsp; it&nbsp; done.<BR><BR>I'm not going to mess with my player while it's under warranty.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:51:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: What Music Survived?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 11:30 PM 10/30/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;"Hope Eyrie" by Leslie Fish. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Leslie has stated that the best rendition of that song was the time she<BR>&gt; played it to close out the Challenger Memorial concert.&nbsp; After all the<BR>&gt; grief, hearing everyone sing this song of hope really helped.&nbsp; The tape is<BR>&gt; avalible from Firebird, amazingly enough.&nbsp; I could have sworn that it was<BR>&gt; long out of print.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.firebirdarts.com/5space00.htm#Mark1<BR><BR>I bought a copy a long time ago. But it, like my other filk tapes,<BR>isn't going to get played again until I can get them copied to CD. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:37:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Development of an Imperium<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From orbit?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not without some heavy-duty stealth technology, I wouldn't think. Isn't NASA <BR>&gt; tracking everything bigger than a breadbox in Earth orbit?<BR><BR>Nope.<BR><BR>On the other hand the USAF Space Command is tracking everything bigger<BR>than a *marble* in low Earth orbit (LEO) and they may be restricted to<BR>"breadbox" sized objects out at GEO (geosynch orbit). <BR><BR>Note that they *want* to be able to track stuff down to a few mm in<BR>LEO, because something that size can do *serious* damage to the Shuttle<BR>or Space Station.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:51:59 -0800<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: [OT] Weapon Question<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I am looking for the FM or other reference material detailing head spacing<BR>&gt; and timing of the M2 .50 cal MG.&nbsp; If you have this info or know<BR>&gt; where I can<BR>&gt; get it, please let me know.&nbsp; If it is in faxable or email form,<BR>&gt; even better.<BR><BR>The relevant documentation, FM 23-65, is available on-line at<BR>http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/query/download/FM+23-65<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:52:57 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Library Data: George Orwell<BR><BR>TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Blair, Eric (-2597 to -2550) Pre-starflight Solomani broadcaster and<BR>popular writer.&nbsp; Noted for his travel books covering the Terran<BR>regions of Myanmar, Spain, France and Britain.&nbsp; His best-known work,<BR>the children's novel Animal Farm, has not survived, but its depiction<BR>of anthropomorphised animals taking the place of humans was a major<BR>cultural influence in the following half century (see Disney, Walt).&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>Ouch! Sir, you have zinged him worse than I did.<BR><BR>I'll have to go back and reread "Politics and the English Language" and beg<BR>Blair/Orwell's shade for forgiveness.<BR><BR>Linking Disney to Orwell is particularly subversive...perhaps the Ine Givar<BR>cells on some world plot to introduce "Animal Farm" into the local<BR>schools...<BR><BR>God help us all if "Babe" somehow got confused with "Animal Farm"...<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 00:18:47 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Library Data: Thomas Jefferson<BR><BR>Jefferson, Thomas (-2765 to -2672): Terran revolutionary political theorist.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Library Data<BR><BR>Search By Name: Jefferson Thomas<BR><BR>Sorry! Your request did not return any data.<BR>SolNet Librarians are always looking to serve you better. Please remain at<BR>the terminal until our Expert Library Staff arrive to assist you with your<BR>information request.<BR><BR>Thank you for using SolNet, the Confederation's premier library information<BR>network!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Transcript of a library terminal session, observed by Solsec<BR>Monitor O'Brien, Tadeusz (5628)<BR><BR>...Let us now turn our attention to the first great age of revolutions on<BR>pre-Starflight Terra. Men such as Tomaszhevrsan (Anglic spelling: Tomaz<BR>Jefreson) and his contemporaries Zhanakrouzo and Alkzndramlton attempted to<BR>create a harmonious society where a natural aristocracy, thoroughly<BR>indoctrinated in the governmental system, would rise to leadership<BR>positions. They overthrew the arbitrary hereditary aristocracies, and made a<BR>noble, if failed attempt to create longer-lasting adoptive heirarchies. How<BR>much we could wish that their Imperial descendants would look to their<BR>examples![1]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Tlazianiashav, "Political Foundations of the Third Imperium from<BR>Solomani History" (3458.3 Zhodani, 1084 Imperial)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ...What is this document? Many of you have never heard of it. Some who<BR>have studied political science have read such slanders as haut-Mikran's<BR>brilliantly conducted misreading of it. Some (I am speaking of my Comrades<BR>from H-------) read it every night, when they can.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; What is it? It is something that can destroy the Imperium, the Solomani<BR>Confederation, the Zhodani Consulate--anyplace where tyranny reigns. It is<BR>nothing less than the most brilliant defense of our rights as<BR>sophonts--including the right to rebel against unjust power--ever written.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It is called the Declaration of Independence. Its author is the great<BR>revolutionary hero, Thomas Jefferson...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Speech given by "Comrade X," 191st Party Congress of the Ine<BR>Givar, 1072?<BR><BR>Notes:<BR>[1] The other names are Zhodani transliterations of, respectively,<BR>Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Alexander Hamilton.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:56:36 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Library Data: Ludwig van Beethoven<BR><BR>"Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt; replies:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;They defile the Ninth!<BR>Death! Death to them All!&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>&lt;malcolm mcdowell&gt;<BR>No! Not the Ninth!<BR>&lt;/malcolm mcdowell&gt;<BR><BR>Seriously, you have to go pretty far afield to subvert the Ninth. That's why<BR>I stuck in the "fourth movement marred by the chorus" comment in the<BR>Imperial entry.<BR><BR>Mistranslating the Ode to Joy is business as usual for the Sollies, of<BR>course.<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:27:33 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sky Hooks<BR><BR>Hi Anthony,<BR><BR>It could be done.&nbsp; The advantage is that the lower platform could be<BR>reeled back into orbit for whatever reason.<BR><BR>NASA claims that they are going to publish the next edition of their<BR>"Tethered Technology" handbook--it is a good source of all sorts of<BR>unusual ideas like this.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ok this question goes out to all you gearheads...Does a Sky hook have to be<BR>&gt; connected to a terrestrial world or can it remain in a low geostationary<BR>&gt; orbit?&nbsp; I'm looking for a non-gravitic way to move object into orbit.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; figure if a station in low orbit can have a small tower/elevator project<BR>&gt; into the upper atmosphere than all you would have to do is use vectored<BR>&gt; thrust VTOLs to land on the lower dock and then transfer cargo/passengers<BR>&gt; into higher orbit using the elevator.&nbsp; If this is completely implausible<BR>&gt; then feel free to tell me.&nbsp; If anyone has other suggestions for cheap<BR>&gt; alternatives to get cargo and people into orbit I'd be willing to hear those<BR>&gt; too...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anthony<BR>&gt; acoloset@kent.edu<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ---<BR>&gt; Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>&gt; Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>&gt; Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 00:35:09 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Library Data: Albert Einstein<BR><BR>Einstein, Albert: (1047 VI to 1129 VI; -2645 to -2563) Solomani natural<BR>scientist. His theories mostly reproduced those of the Vilani scientists<BR>Kaamgii Zegkmaan and Shuugliushi Khimbeshaag (published ca. 4500 PI), with<BR>some minor errors. It remains customary in Solomani space to refer to such<BR>things as "Einsteinian Space-Time," although in the more civilized regions<BR>of the Imperium this practice does not occur.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Argushiigi Admegulasha Bilanidin (AAB)<BR><BR>Einstein, Albert (1873-1955): One of the greatest Solomani theoretical<BR>physicists in history. His explanations of such phenomena as relativity and<BR>the photoelectric effect made him one of his time's greatest scientists. The<BR>exceptional clarity and brilliance of his relativity theories was further<BR>demonstrated during the Interstellar Wars period, when they allowd the<BR>Solomani to develop the Jump-3 drive, the existence of which was not even<BR>suspected by many of the caste-bound Vilani researchers...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Encyclopedia Solamnica, 5620 edition<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:40:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>As further proof that the TML readership rules the world, this month's<BR>Atlantic magazine features a cover story on the prospects for English<BR>becoming the dominant world language.&nbsp; The author's take on it is a<BR>qualified 'no'.&nbsp; Not sure I agree, but it's an intriguing piece.&nbsp; All<BR>participants in this debate should go read it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:07:41 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sky Hooks<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:42:41 -0500<BR>&gt; From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ok this question goes out to all you gearheads...Does a Sky hook have to<BR>&gt; be connected to a terrestrial world or can it remain in a low<BR>&gt; geostationary orbit?&nbsp; I'm looking for a non-gravitic way to move object<BR>&gt; into orbit.&nbsp; I figure if a station in low orbit can have a small<BR>&gt; tower/elevator project into the upper atmosphere than all you would have<BR>&gt; to do is use vectored thrust VTOLs to land on the lower dock and then<BR>&gt; transfer cargo/passengers into higher orbit using the elevator.&nbsp; If this<BR>&gt; is completely implausible then feel free to tell me.&nbsp; If anyone has<BR>&gt; other suggestions for cheap alternatives to get cargo and people into<BR>&gt; orbit I'd be willing to hear those too... <BR><BR>The problem with your scheme as described is that if the whole structure<BR>is in near earth orbit, it will be moving at near earth orbital speeds, or<BR>about 16,000 miles per hour relative to the ground (and air) at the<BR>equator.&nbsp; So your plane would need to reach NEO speed to catch the<BR>platform, at which point it's already in NEO.<BR><BR>Conversely, if you put the tower's center of mass in geostationary orbit,<BR>then you might as well build it clear down to the ground; reaching the<BR>edge of the atmosphere leaves only 50-ish of 26,000 miles not linked up,<BR>which seems rather a shame, convenience wise. :)<BR><BR>There's another skyhook design that might better meet your needs.&nbsp; This<BR>one involves putting a rotating mini-tower (or tethered pair) into NEO,<BR>with COM above the atmosphere but the endpoints just dipping in as they<BR>rotate though the 'down' position.&nbsp; The rotation rate is such that the<BR>down ends, moving 'backward', match speeds with the earth below.&nbsp; You can<BR>envision it as two spokes of a phantom wheel, rolling around the earth;<BR>the part in contact with earth (well, the outer edge of the atmosphere)<BR>isn't moving.&nbsp; Vehicles could arrange to meet the descending end, latch<BR>onto it, and then get yanked up and away, letting loose at the upper end<BR>with a great deal of delta vee (esacape velocity or higher is pretty easy<BR>to arrange).&nbsp; Conversely, ships arriving from elsewhere can match courses<BR>with the outer end, latch on, and get deposited gently into the<BR>atmosphere.&nbsp; You need to balance inbound and outbound trips, and<BR>compensate for atmospheric friction, or the whole thing falls apart pretty<BR>quickly.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "As truth is gathered, I rearrange; inside<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; out, outside in, perpetual change." -Yes<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:47:24 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Sky Hooks<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Ok this question goes out to all you gearheads...Does a Sky hook have to be<BR>&gt; connected to a terrestrial world or can it remain in a low geostationary<BR>&gt; orbit?&nbsp; I'm looking for a non-gravitic way to move object into orbit.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; figure if a station in low orbit can have a small tower/elevator project<BR>&gt; into the upper atmosphere than all you would have to do is use vectored<BR>&gt; thrust VTOLs to land on the lower dock and then transfer cargo/passengers<BR>&gt; into higher orbit using the elevator.&nbsp; If this is completely implausible<BR>&gt; then feel free to tell me.&nbsp; If anyone has other suggestions for cheap<BR>&gt; alternatives to get cargo and people into orbit I'd be willing to hear those<BR>&gt; too...<BR><BR>*None* of the alternatives are "cheap" until *after* you pay off the<BR>rather substantial construction costs.<BR><BR>A tower has the problem that you need high *compression* strength (to<BR>support the weight of the part of the tower above any given section).<BR>As I understand it, that's *much* harder to get than high tensile strength.<BR><BR>Remember, if your tower is 10-20 miles tall (50,000-100,000 feet) you<BR>*are* above most of the atmosphere, but you still need 5 miles a<BR>*second* of *horizontal* velocity to be in orbit. Or 7 miles a second<BR>to escape from the planet. Less than 5 mi/sec and you fall and hit the<BR>ground at a greater or lesser distance from the tower.<BR><BR>A "tower" from a satellite has *several* problems. <BR><BR>First of all, the orbital velocity will be for the altitude of the<BR>*center of mass* of the structure. So an object released at the low end<BR>will be moving at a velocity that will cause it to move in directions<BR>you wouldn't expect (mostly too fast to be in orbit at that altitude).<BR><BR>Second, if it's anywhere *near* the upper atmosphere, drag will cause<BR>the structure to spiral in. <BR><BR>Third, because the parts above and below the center of mass are moving<BR>at the wrong speed to be in orbit, they'll be subject to tidal forces.<BR>For the miles long structures you'd need, those forces are rather<BR>substantial.<BR><BR>Fourth, every time something grabs on, or lets go, it affects the orbit<BR>of the structure. <BR><BR>Structures *similar* to what you are thinking of are known as<BR>"tethers". Basicly a long, strong "rope" gets extended both up and down<BR>(so as to balance the forces). <BR><BR>A variation is a *rotating* tether. With one of those, the end can get<BR>almost to ground level *and* be almost stationary for long enough to<BR>grab something or let something off. <BR><BR>You pick up or release something at the ground or at the opposite end<BR>of the rotation and reverse the process half a rotation later. If you<BR>are moving equal amounts of mass in each direction, the o\rbit of the<BR>"rotovator" is fairly stable. Imbalances require some means of<BR>adjusting the orbit to compensate.<BR><BR>Beanstalks require that synchronous orbit not be too far out (ie the<BR>planet mustn't rotate too slowly). And the higher the surface gravity,<BR>the harder they are to build. <BR><BR>Both beanstalks and tethers are in *tension* (ie they are being<BR>stretched) which makes then easier to build than a tower from the<BR>ground. <BR><BR>Dr. Forward has tethers in several of his Rocheworld series. And Arthur<BR>C Clarke did the definitive beanstalk story in "The Fountains of<BR>Paradise". <BR><BR>Check Heinlein in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" for some discussion on<BR>a mass driver for boosting cargoes off world. This is easier on a<BR>vacuum or trace atmosphere world. And again, low gravity helps.<BR><BR>An interesting idea is the "Launch Loop" (aka "Lofstrom Loop" after<BR>the inventor, Keith Lofstrom). It's hard to explain breifly. Check the<BR>web. Fred Pohl used it in one of the Heechee novels. It depends on a<BR>stream of objects moving at high velocity to support portions of it.<BR>That makes it a "dynamic structure"<BR><BR>Another dynamic structure is the "tower" used in one of Dr. Forward's<BR>books ("Dragon's Egg" or the sequel). You have several streams of metal<BR>balls or rings being shot upward at well above escape velocity. You<BR>have a series of platforms with hols for the balls/rings to pass thru<BR>and coils that both recenter them and slow them down a bit. The act of<BR>slowing them down pushes the platform upwards. <BR><BR>The end result is that the platform "floats" supported by the stream of<BR>objects (sort of like a ball floating on a water jet). <BR><BR>If you can throw the objects upwards fast enough, you can suport a<BR>series of platforms, with the top one running them thru a half-loop to<BR>get them headed back towards the ground. There, they'll get run thru<BR>another half loop and given a boost to get them going back up again. <BR><BR>Oh yeah, yet another alternative is laser launching. Check out some of<BR>Jerry Pournelle's stuff. He gets some details wrong, but the basic idea<BR>is ok. Laser pulse heats/vaporizes something on the back end of the<BR>ship, the resulting "blas"/pressure wave kicks the ship forward. Repeat<BR>hundreds of times a second until orbit.<BR><BR>Note that the *banks* of lasers required for a laser launch system<BR>capable of launch any sizable craft into orbit will make one *hell* of<BR>a defense against unwanted visitors from space. :-)<BR><BR>Note that laser launching and mass drivers require enormous amounts of<BR>power. While dynamic structures require even *higher* levels of power<BR>and need them *continuosly*.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:10:25 -0800<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; As further proof that the TML readership rules the world, this month's<BR>&gt; Atlantic magazine features a cover story on the prospects for English<BR>&gt; becoming the dominant world language.&nbsp; The author's take on it is a<BR>&gt; qualified 'no'.&nbsp; Not sure I agree, but it's an intriguing piece.&nbsp; All<BR>&gt; participants in this debate should go read it.<BR><BR>I have also read this article, "What Global Language?" by Barbra Wallraff,<BR>and I, like the apparently extremely insightful Craig Berry, also disagree<BR>with the author's overall conclusion. Why? Because Wallraff seems to ignore<BR>the big driver:&nbsp; the economics involved. Like I mentioned in a recent post,<BR>in "A History of Language," the author remarks that one big driver for the<BR>wide appeal of English is that the higer-paying jobs today tend to require<BR>English. So we see people all over the world learning English to help them<BR>get ahead.<BR><BR>I have been amazed when I do business in places like Hong Kong, Singapore,<BR>Germany, Israel, and so forth, how much English is *the* language of<BR>business. People may speak a different language at home, like Wallraff<BR>mentions, but to succeed in business it helps quite a bit to speak English.<BR>In some places, I have even seen media campaigns by the government to get<BR>people to learn English so that they have the skils needed for today's jobs.<BR>Just like in the 3I, business and economics really drive everything today.<BR>And it helps you read those TML postings, too.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 01:40:20 EST<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re Culture?<BR><BR>Kiri said:<BR><BR>&gt;On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Well, yes, but what I meant was that he was from a culture which had <BR>mixed<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; the two up, so for instance, there were the stories he told about Thor's<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Hogs, Harley and Vincent.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; LOL! And surely there's the tales of Loki (who as a trickster has GOT to<BR>&gt;&gt; ride a Ducati) and the Gods doomsday battles against the Rice Giants...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Please tell me they are not named Goldar and Silvar.&nbsp; (a no-prize to the<BR>&gt;person that gets this)<BR><BR>Now there's a show I haven't seen in a very long time.&nbsp; Couldn't tell you <BR>what it was called, as it had a local whacko in a space suit wrapped around <BR>it (as well as Hardware Wars, Captain Scarlet, and (I think) even Star <BR>Blazers). Wonderful stuff, though even then I though Captain Cosmic was <BR>goofy...<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:14:13 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; A wide variety of "expressions" of the decryptor can be found at:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/index.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yah gotta wonder why some OS whack hasn't had the DeCSS tattoed on his<BR>&gt; body in some form.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Be interesting to hear the studios lawyers arguing for <BR>&gt; skinning someone<BR>&gt; in court...<BR><BR>&lt;SPLORT&gt;<BR><BR>And since the US government regulations define encryption software as<BR>military equipment, would he have to be flayed if he wanted to leave the<BR>country?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:27:19 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: TML world domination? (was RE: English-language world domination? )<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As further proof that the TML readership rules the world, this month's<BR>&gt; Atlantic magazine features a cover story on the prospects for English<BR>&gt; becoming the dominant world language.&nbsp; The author's take on it is a<BR>&gt; qualified 'no'.&nbsp; Not sure I agree, but it's an intriguing piece.&nbsp; All<BR>&gt; participants in this debate should go read it.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>OMG...you don't suppose WE'RE the Illuminati, do you? FNORD.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:36:02 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Books that survived...<BR><BR>On 31 Oct 00, at 15:10, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Mills &amp; Boon are probably the best known publisher of romantic fiction for<BR>&gt; &gt; women. They put out formula books in bulk (many titles per month) by various<BR>&gt; &gt; authors. Their books have strong overt erotic content (full of soft yeilding<BR>&gt; &gt; womanhood giving way to strong firm manhood etc) and are very specifically<BR>&gt; &gt; targeted at women.<BR><BR>&gt; Although I have three shelves full of shoujo manga (Japanese girls<BR>&gt; comics), I don't think I would know Mills &amp; Boon stuff if it bit me on the<BR>&gt; butt.&nbsp; Unless that's another name for Silhouette (barf) or Harlequin (double<BR>&gt; barf).<BR><BR>You got it, though apparently Silhouette and Harlequin are regarded as <BR>"raunchier" than Mills &amp; Boon<BR><BR>&gt; I love romance and sex.&nbsp; But I want them to be integrated into some kind<BR>&gt; of plot, and I want this to be done appropriately (I almost died laughing when<BR>&gt; the silly twit in "Independence Day" started trying to make amends for their<BR>&gt; breakup while her ex was trying to figure out how to save the planet!).<BR><BR>During her second pregnancy my wife lived on a steady diet of them. Mind <BR>you, now she uses that fact to impress on her friends just how severe the <BR>hormonial pyschosis was.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:38:54 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean :<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Being a Brit, I admit that with my first character was <BR>&gt; tempted to play<BR>&gt; &gt;someone call St. John-Smythe or Fothering-Thomas, or <BR>&gt; something equally<BR>&gt; &gt;unlikely and psuedo-Limey. So I made my guy African. Not <BR>&gt; African-American,<BR>&gt; &gt;but Tanzanian. IMHO, he's the coolest character I've ever played.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My present character is a member of the lost tribe of Israel. After<BR>&gt; being abducted by Droyne (winged angels), along with some <BR>&gt; north american<BR>&gt; natives (some of the israelites escaped at this point, but were<BR>&gt; recaptured at a later date) they were resettled on a system near the<BR>&gt; present day Ithklur free state.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; His religion is interesting because they were lost in the <BR>&gt; Sinai shortly<BR>&gt; after escaping egypt, and they still have a lot of egyptian influences<BR>&gt; on their culture, alongside the american indian ones. Of course they'd<BR>&gt; never heard of King Solomon, David, the Torah, etc. They're still<BR>&gt; pretty enthusiastic about blood sacrifices too. He keeps a <BR>&gt; coop of white<BR>&gt; doves in his stateroom, and some goats in cold sleep in a pod in the<BR>&gt; hold for special occasions.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Wow, cool. Any chance of a write-up?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:08:28 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Worse yet, due to the "country coding", playing the same DVD in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; different players will provide a *different* output!<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; In all the examples I've seen region coding affects output in&nbsp; an<BR>&gt; &gt; all-or-nothing way rather than *modifiying* the&nbsp; output.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From what I've heard, region coding will add/remove *scenes* and could<BR>&gt; possibly swap them (ie you get scene A in one region, scene B in another).<BR><BR>This is not due to the region encoding, this is due to the fact they<BR>actually release different DVDs in each of the regions, and they put<BR>different things on them. The european version of Highlander, for instance,<BR>has diffferent "extras" than the US one, and if you look at it at file level<BR>they actually have differnt files.<BR><BR>The If you try and play a Region 1 DVD on a player set for Region 2, it will<BR>just refuse to play it, usually after flashing the standard copywright<BR>warning.<BR><BR>However, this check does not prevent you from ripping the encrypted files<BR>off of the DVD and decrypting them yourself, it just prevents the player<BR>from decrypting the files.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Besides<BR>&gt; &gt; which getting the region code&nbsp; processing&nbsp; function&nbsp; disabled&nbsp; is<BR>&gt; &gt; fairly routine for&nbsp; consumers&nbsp; so&nbsp; just&nbsp; about&nbsp; everyone&nbsp; I&nbsp; know<BR>&gt; &gt; (including myself) has&nbsp; had&nbsp; it&nbsp; done.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm not going to mess with my player while it's under warranty.<BR><BR>Then get your authorized dealer to do it for you. That's what we do over<BR>here.<BR>In fact most DVD players are sold new over here with region encoding<BR>disabled.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:24:05 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>Luther Martin wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; I have been amazed when I do business in places like Hong Kong, Singapore,<BR>&gt; Germany, Israel, and so forth, how much English is *the* language of<BR>&gt; business.<BR><BR>Well, I've done business in most of those places and a few others, and while<BR>_some_ of the people spoke English, the majority did not, and my hosts<BR>basically had to go out of their way to help me fit in, because I don't<BR><BR>Mind you, I didn't stick to the hotels and the central business districts,<BR>my work took me to the highlands of the Phillipines and the Gobi dessert,<BR>and social occassions consisted of drinking Chinese and Phillipino engineers<BR>under the table in local bars with dirt floors and people on the door<BR>carrying automatic weapons for security.<BR><BR>I've had to train a roomful of Chinese engineers with only two of them who<BR>understood English.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3246<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3247</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/1/00 7:28:18 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 1 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3247<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Sky Hooks<BR>Re: [OT] Weapon Question<BR>RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>Rogue's Gallery<BR>Re: [OT] Weapon Question<BR>RE: Books that survived...<BR>RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>RE: TML world domination? (was RE: English-language world dominat ion? )<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>Re: Traditions<BR>GT Stuff<BR>Re: TML world domination? (was RE: English-language world domination?)<BR>RE: Traditions<BR>Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>RE: Culture<BR>RE: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>Re: Going to England<BR>Re: [OT] Weapon Question<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:43:14 +0100<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sky Hooks<BR><BR>&gt; Ok this question goes out to all you gearheads...Does a Sky hook have to<BR>be<BR>&gt; connected to a terrestrial world or can it remain in a low geostationary<BR>&gt; orbit?&nbsp; I'm looking for a non-gravitic way to move object into orbit.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; figure if a station in low orbit can have a small tower/elevator project<BR>&gt; into the upper atmosphere than all you would have to do is use vectored<BR>&gt; thrust VTOLs to land on the lower dock and then transfer cargo/passengers<BR>&gt; into higher orbit using the elevator.&nbsp; If this is completely implausible<BR>&gt; then feel free to tell me.&nbsp; If anyone has other suggestions for cheap<BR>&gt; alternatives to get cargo and people into orbit I'd be willing to hear<BR>those<BR>&gt; too...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Anthony<BR>&gt; acoloset@kent.edu<BR><BR>You will have to think out a way to manage to keep the station in a stable<BR>orbit, even though it protrudes into the atmosphere, and docking craft to<BR>its lower end won't be easy. But also remember that moving things up inside<BR>the station also propels the station downwards.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 01:59:22 -0500<BR>From: "Pronto" &lt;pronto_r031@telus.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [OT] Weapon Question<BR><BR>&gt; Apologies to the list.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is for those prior service folks or gun buffs on the list.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I am looking for the FM or other reference material detailing head spacing<BR>&gt; and timing of the M2 .50 cal MG.&nbsp; If you have this info or know where I<BR>can<BR>&gt; get it, please let me know.&nbsp; If it is in faxable or email form, even<BR>better.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tod<BR><BR>FM 23-65<BR>BROWNING MACHINE GUN CALIBER .50 HB, M2<BR>http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/23-65/toc.htm<BR><BR><BR><BR>3-6. HEADSPACE AND TIMING<BR>http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/23-65/ch3.htm#p6<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:41:52 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>- -----------------start quote<BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:12:30 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Well, just a quick note to the list:&nbsp; I made it to<BR>&gt; Reading, and even<BR>&gt; though I might have a couple of days to see the countryside,<BR>&gt; the area is<BR>&gt; flooding, the hotel is now in the middle of a lake (no<BR>&gt; kidding, I had to get<BR>&gt; ferried to the nearest roundabout in a boat), and the trains<BR>&gt; were shut down.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You guys sure know how to show someone a good time ;o)<BR>&gt; (All kidding aside, I'm still having fun - it is a nice<BR>&gt; country you have<BR>&gt; here)&nbsp; And a stack of BITS stuff is due to come into the FLGS<BR>&gt; tomorrow!<BR>&gt; ....if only I can get into town again to pick them up.....&lt;grrrrr&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>Oh yeah, for all you non-europeans on-list, we had a hurricane yesterday. I<BR>checked ABCNEWS later in the afternoon, and it was a footnote in the<BR>international section.<BR>Dean<BR>- -----------------end quote-------------------<BR>Welcome to sunny England Dean, we try and ensure TML visitors have an<BR>interesting time.<BR><BR>Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, (which gives you some<BR>idea how bad a hurricane really is.)&nbsp; In addition the tornado reported on<BR>the South coast, probably wouldn't make local news in the US (it was too<BR>minor.)&nbsp; Please note this in no way detracts from the effects of property<BR>damage and injuries or the emotional damage suffered by people over here.<BR><BR>Ob Trav : Weather reports on planet will be based on the local perception of<BR>weather systems.&nbsp; That minor storm South of Duraq may have wind speeds in<BR>excess of 100mph!!!!!!!!&nbsp; A heatwave may consist of temperatures above<BR>freezing for 4 consecutive days.<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:41:54 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Craig Berry said<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav:&nbsp; I imagine that one important function of the Imperial government<BR>&gt;is helping to fund and otherwise support standards organizations (like our<BR>&gt;current ISO and ANSI).&nbsp; Having everyone using the same electrical voltage<BR>&gt;and AC frequency, the same connector types, the same data formats, and all<BR>&gt;that good engineering stuff will massively expand trade opportunities<BR>&gt;between worlds, which is a central goal of the 3I.<BR><BR>I can see this being a major problem across the 3I Sol border, It would be<BR>very typical of the Confederation to run very similar, but different<BR>standards.&nbsp; Think of US/British differences.&nbsp; I would be tempted to use<BR>metric for the Imperium and British measurements for the Solomon for<BR>instance.&nbsp; Along with a tendency to standardise military weaponry at<BR>slightly different sizes (e.g. NATO 81mm Mortar vs. PACT 82mm etc.)&nbsp; In the<BR>Coreward portion of the Rim this would be complicated by the changes of<BR>ownership over the years.&nbsp; Lots of Roleplaying opportunities, Jump drive<BR>components are the same but fittings are subtly different, Standard Iris<BR>valves are 3/4 inch larger on Solomani ships.&nbsp; the sort of stuff you would<BR>not notice until it became really vital.&nbsp; Stock up on spares in the Rim at<BR>your peril!!<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:47:17 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Rogue's Gallery<BR><BR>____________start quote___________<BR>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:48:22 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR>Note that we have quite a few character and NPC's posted on<BR>travellercentral.com.&nbsp; Borrow as you will.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>______________end quote_____________<BR><BR>I have a few PC's and NPC's posted on my site please feel free to borrow at<BR>will, if anyone wants to post them to their site as well please feel free.<BR>I would appreciate a mail letting me know you have posted them and a link on<BR>your links page would be nice ( :-) ).&nbsp; The characters are all TNE, but<BR>could be converted with ease.<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 07:38:00 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [OT] Weapon Question<BR><BR>That reminds of one of those old Army sayings, "Must be operator head<BR>spacing!"<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"Genuine Antique Person"..been there,done that,can't remember..<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>To: "TML" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 10:17 PM<BR>Subject: [OT] Weapon Question<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Apologies to the list.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is for those prior service folks or gun buffs on the list.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I am looking for the FM or other reference material detailing head spacing<BR>&gt; and timing of the M2 .50 cal MG.&nbsp; If you have this info or know where I<BR>can<BR>&gt; get it, please let me know.&nbsp; If it is in faxable or email form, even<BR>better.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tod L Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:41:38 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Books that survived...<BR><BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>&gt; Although I have three shelves full of shoujo manga (Japanese<BR>&gt; girls comics), I don't think I would know Mills &amp; Boon stuff if<BR>&gt; it bit me on the butt.&nbsp; Unless that's another name for Silhouette<BR>&gt; (barf) or Harlequin (double barf).<BR><BR>A couple of years ago my&nbsp; local&nbsp; TV&nbsp; news&nbsp; did&nbsp; a&nbsp; feature&nbsp; on&nbsp; a<BR>housewife who won a Mills &amp; Boon&nbsp; writing&nbsp; contest&nbsp; and&nbsp; now&nbsp; had<BR>several books published by them (she was apparently&nbsp; now&nbsp; one&nbsp; of<BR>their top authors).&nbsp; She'd only entered the contest as a joke and<BR>thought all the&nbsp; Mills &amp; Boon&nbsp; books&nbsp; *including*&nbsp; her&nbsp; own&nbsp; were<BR>complete rubbish ... and if they weren't paying her she&nbsp; wouldn't<BR>write the stuff.&nbsp; (What an endorsement!)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:45:38 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Well, just a quick note to the list:&nbsp; I made it to<BR>&gt; &gt; Reading, and even<BR>&gt; &gt; though I might have a couple of days to see the countryside,<BR>&gt; &gt; the area is<BR>&gt; &gt; flooding, the hotel is now in the middle of a lake (no<BR>&gt; &gt; kidding, I had to get<BR>&gt; &gt; ferried to the nearest roundabout in a boat), and the trains<BR>&gt; &gt; were shut down.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You guys sure know how to show someone a good time ;o)<BR>&gt; &gt; (All kidding aside, I'm still having fun - it is a nice<BR>&gt; &gt; country you have<BR>&gt; &gt; here)&nbsp; And a stack of BITS stuff is due to come into the FLGS<BR>&gt; &gt; tomorrow!<BR>&gt; &gt; ....if only I can get into town again to pick them up.....&lt;grrrrr&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; Oh yeah, for all you non-europeans on-list, we had a <BR>&gt; hurricane yesterday. I<BR>&gt; checked ABCNEWS later in the afternoon, and it was a footnote in the<BR>&gt; international section.<BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt; -----------------end quote-------------------<BR>&gt; Welcome to sunny England Dean, we try and ensure TML visitors have an<BR>&gt; interesting time.<BR><BR>Thanks, but I already live here :)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, (which <BR>&gt; gives you some<BR>&gt; idea how bad a hurricane really is.) <BR><BR>Yeah, fair enough.<BR><BR>In addition the tornado <BR>&gt; reported on<BR>&gt; the South coast, probably wouldn't make local news in the US <BR>&gt; (it was too<BR>&gt; minor.)&nbsp; Please note this in no way detracts from the effects <BR>&gt; of property<BR>&gt; damage and injuries or the emotional damage suffered by <BR>&gt; people over here.<BR><BR>Yup. I lost a good part of my roof.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ob Trav : Weather reports on planet will be based on the <BR>&gt; local perception of<BR>&gt; weather systems.&nbsp; That minor storm South of Duraq may have <BR>&gt; wind speeds in<BR>&gt; excess of 100mph!!!!!!!!&nbsp; A heatwave may consist of temperatures above<BR>&gt; freezing for 4 consecutive days.<BR><BR>Good one !<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:03:31 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; In all the examples I've seen region coding affects output in<BR>&gt; &gt; an all-or-nothing way rather than *modifiying* the&nbsp; output. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From what I've heard, region coding will add/remove *scenes* and<BR>&gt; could possibly swap them (ie you get scene A in one region, scene<BR>&gt; B in another).<BR><BR>I could be wrong but I think here you are confusing region coding<BR>with multi-threaded&nbsp; ...&nbsp; er&nbsp; ...&nbsp; -ness.&nbsp; There&nbsp; are&nbsp; completely<BR>different disks produced for&nbsp; the&nbsp; US&nbsp; and&nbsp; UK&nbsp; market&nbsp; (this&nbsp; is<BR>mandated by the censor).&nbsp; But additionally films like&nbsp; Abyss&nbsp; are<BR>offered in as multi-threaded so you can get both the&nbsp; "theatrical<BR>release" and the "director's cut" on the same disk.<BR><BR>I believe that region coding will stop a disk playing altogether.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Besides which getting the region code&nbsp; processing&nbsp; function<BR>&gt; &gt; disabled&nbsp; is fairly routine for&nbsp; consumers&nbsp; so&nbsp; just&nbsp; about<BR>&gt; &gt; everyone&nbsp; I&nbsp; know (including myself) has&nbsp; had&nbsp; it&nbsp; done.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm not going to mess with my player while it's under warranty.<BR><BR>The companies that offer this service (or the good&nbsp; ones&nbsp; anyway)<BR>offer their own replacement warranty.<BR><BR>Given that Region 1 has approx 10 times more titles&nbsp; than&nbsp; Region<BR>2, that on average there are more extras, the picture quality&nbsp; is<BR>usually just as good, and that even with&nbsp; postage&nbsp; US&nbsp; disks&nbsp; are<BR>cheaper: there is little reason not to do this.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:15:56 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; And since the US government regulations define encryption<BR>&gt; software as military equipment, would he have to be flayed if<BR>&gt; he wanted to leave the country?<BR><BR>As I understand it: no.&nbsp; There is a loophole in US&nbsp; law&nbsp; so&nbsp; that<BR>*compiled* encryption&nbsp; software&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp; "war&nbsp; munition"&nbsp; but&nbsp; the<BR>printed hardcopy of the sourcecode is not.<BR><BR>The company that puts out PGP (for example) develops the code&nbsp; in<BR>the US then prints it out and binds it into&nbsp; books.&nbsp; An&nbsp; employee<BR>then openly walk through an airport and takes&nbsp; it&nbsp; abroad.&nbsp; There<BR>the code is scanned into a computer where it is compiled&nbsp; to&nbsp; for<BR>the "international" version ... that's why there is a version 5.0<BR>(or whatever) and a version 5.0i: 5,0 is compiled in the US, 5.0i<BR>is compiled outside the US from the *same* sourcecode.<BR><BR>So having the sourcecode tattooed on your skin&nbsp; should&nbsp; be&nbsp; okay.<BR>I'm not sure that's the issue&nbsp; with&nbsp; DeCSS&nbsp; though&nbsp; ...&nbsp; I&nbsp; think<BR>that's been "branded" as a software piracy tool.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:17:00 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TML world domination? (was RE: English-language world dominat ion? )<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; OMG...you don't suppose WE'RE the Illuminati, do you? FNORD.<BR><BR>You mean you've only just realised?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR>All hail discordia!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:36:21 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Peter Scarrott wrote:<BR>&gt; I can see this being a major problem across the 3I Sol border,<BR>&gt; It would be very typical of the Confederation to run very similar,<BR>&gt; but different standards.&nbsp; Think of US/British differences.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; would be tempted to use metric for the Imperium and British<BR>&gt; measurements for the Solomon for instance.<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Naw, I think the Solomani Confederation (once being part&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>3I) would stick to metric, too.<BR><BR>However while in Solomani space (on either side&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; border)<BR>you may run into&nbsp; some&nbsp; unfortunates&nbsp; afflicted&nbsp; with&nbsp; a&nbsp; strange<BR>disability:&nbsp; "Being-an-American"&nbsp;&nbsp; ...&nbsp;&nbsp; symptoms&nbsp; include&nbsp; great<BR>difficulty in measuring anything using an ordinary base10&nbsp; system<BR>(and finding "4 sixteenths" more intunitive than "0.25"), a&nbsp; sort<BR>of mathemetical dyslexia.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR>(ducking...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 05:57:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Bernie McGeehan &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traditions<BR><BR>The Russian/Soviet space program has a tradition of<BR>the cosmonauts stopping to urinate on the wheel of<BR>their bus on the way to the launch pad, a tradition<BR>begun by Gagarin. Disgusting, but it will probably<BR>survive the contact with the Vilani...<BR>- --- Anthony Colosetti &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well since we seem to be taking about things<BR>&gt; that still around, why<BR>&gt; don't we talk about things that stick around for no<BR>&gt; other reason than the<BR>&gt; fact that people have been doing it for years.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; What kind of traditions and superstitions do you<BR>&gt; use in you games?&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; know of one canon tradition right off the top of my<BR>&gt; head (Pilots of Vilani<BR>&gt; decent dim the lights before jump) but what other<BR>&gt; nonsensical stuff is still<BR>&gt; floating around in space?&nbsp; Do spacers of Solomani<BR>&gt; decent spit over there<BR>&gt; shoulders before entering a ghost ship?&nbsp; Are cats<BR>&gt; responsible for ion<BR>&gt; storms?&nbsp; Are there any equivalent to old time sea<BR>&gt; shanties?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The game I'm currently running (BTW if anyone on<BR>&gt; the list is residing in<BR>&gt; the NE Ohio region and would like to play LMK) I<BR>&gt; have a Lab ship crewed<BR>&gt; almost entirely by ex-naval (1 Commander, 1 Master<BR>&gt; Chief, 1 Petty) and the<BR>&gt; rest are all well experienced spacers.&nbsp; I feel<BR>&gt; adding some traditions would<BR>&gt; help the players out in the role-playing dept.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anthony<BR>&gt; acoloset@kent.edu<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ---<BR>&gt; Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>&gt; Checked by AVG anti-virus system<BR>&gt; (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>&gt; Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release<BR>&gt; Date: 10/4/00<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>"I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art."&nbsp; &nbsp; me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.<BR>http://experts.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 07:58:39 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: GT Stuff<BR><BR>Yesterday (31 Oct 2000), SJG's _Daily Illuminator_ announced that GT:<BR>Alien Races IV is now in playtest.&nbsp; Today (01 Nov 2000), _Daily<BR>Illuminator_ announced that GT: Ground Forces is now shipping.<BR><BR>Truly we live in wondrous times....<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 08:00:59 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TML world domination? (was RE: English-language world domination?)<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; As further proof that the TML readership rules the world, this month's<BR>&gt; &gt; Atlantic magazine features a cover story on the prospects for English<BR>&gt; &gt; becoming the dominant world language.&nbsp; The author's take on it is a<BR>&gt; &gt; qualified 'no'.&nbsp; Not sure I agree, but it's an intriguing piece.&nbsp; All<BR>&gt; &gt; participants in this debate should go read it.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OMG...you don't suppose WE'RE the Illuminati, do you? FNORD.<BR><BR>You haven't read the FAQ very carefully, have you?<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:08:44 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traditions<BR><BR>Bernie McGeehan wrote:<BR>&gt; The Russian/Soviet space program has a tradition of<BR>&gt; the cosmonauts stopping to urinate on the wheel of<BR>&gt; their bus on the way to the launch pad, a tradition<BR>&gt; begun by Gagarin. Disgusting, but it will probably<BR>&gt; survive the contact with the Vilani...<BR><BR>It'd make Vargr visitors feel right at home.&nbsp; :-o<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 09:13:29 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>At 07:44 PM 10/31/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; You _have_ to add<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The Legacy of Heorot<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Don't forget the sequel "Beowulf's Children". Nor the other<BR>&gt;Niven/Barnes collaboration set in the same universe (but a different<BR>&gt;star system)...<BR><BR>One book I found useful was Chandler's "The Far Traveller".&nbsp; The main <BR>character was an ex Survey Service officer and touched on some of the <BR>reasons why the Service did things they way they did.&nbsp; When he chose <BR>*primitive* cased chemically propelled slug throwers over lasers and other <BR>high tech items, he responded "If this gets wet, I know it won't short out, <BR>and if it falls, the wires and circuit boards won't break."<BR><BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:21:58 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture<BR><BR>Since a number of people have offered web&nbsp; space&nbsp; for&nbsp; a&nbsp; Rogue's<BR>Gallery (and some already have characters&nbsp; posted)&nbsp; I'd&nbsp; like&nbsp; to<BR>*propose* that, like the TML Landgrab, people can post characters<BR>to their own websites with a master index&nbsp; kept&nbsp; at&nbsp; downport.com<BR>... and those without&nbsp; websites&nbsp; can&nbsp; send&nbsp; their&nbsp; characters&nbsp; to<BR>downport.com for hosting.&nbsp; How does that sound?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:26:38 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>&gt; When he chose *primitive* cased chemically propelled slug throwers<BR>&gt; over lasers and other high tech items, he responded "If this gets<BR>&gt; wet, I know it won't short out, and if it falls, the wires and<BR>&gt; circuit boards won't break."<BR><BR>I would *hope* that the laser rifles, gauss weapons, etc, of&nbsp; the<BR>3I would all be&nbsp; ruggedised&nbsp; for&nbsp; rough&nbsp; handling&nbsp; in&nbsp; a&nbsp; hostile<BR>environment.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:31:30 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>&gt; That's a problem for videos and TV's, not DVDs. All DVD's use the same<BR>&gt; encoding format.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While the _output_ of your DVD _player_ may be one or the <BR>&gt; other (or both)<BR>&gt; the DVD's themselves are the same format. If you find that <BR>&gt; you can't play a<BR>&gt; particular DVD in a particular player, it is probably due to <BR>&gt; the age of the<BR>&gt; player, and the software version required by that particular <BR>&gt; DVD, not the<BR>&gt; basic encoding format.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If what you said was true, I would be unable to display my <BR>&gt; Region 1 DVD's on<BR>&gt; my PAL television set here in New Zealand.<BR><BR>They're Panasonic L-50's (portables with built in screens) I think that<BR>explains it.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:58:09 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Going to England<BR><BR>Matthew Bond writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Yeah, and also snow, tornados, &amp; vast areas of the country flooded. In<BR>&gt;the last 2 days. Biblical, almost... Makes you think that maybe the year<BR>&gt;2000 *is* significant... &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Of course it is significant. It is the last year of the 2nd Millenium. If there<BR>is anything happening at the start of the 3rd, this could be the last year ever<BR>;-).<BR><BR>Be that as it may, it is just as significant as the year 2001, just not the<BR>_same_ significance.<BR><BR><BR>(Sorry, couldn't resist. It's been almost a year since I last posted on the<BR>subject. I thought I was cured, but there it is...).<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hans Rancke<BR>University of Copenhagen<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; rancke@diku.dk<BR>- ------------<BR>Personally I'm going to celebrate Jan 1st 2000 for being the<BR>start of a really neat-numbered year and Jan 1st 2001 as the<BR>start of the 21st Century.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 07:12:15 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [OT] Weapon Question<BR><BR>on 10/31/00 8:51 PM, Luther Martin at martin@ksarul.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; I am looking for the FM or other reference material detailing head spacing<BR>&gt;&gt; and timing of the M2 .50 cal MG.&nbsp; If you have this info or know<BR>&gt;&gt; where I can<BR>&gt;&gt; get it, please let me know.&nbsp; If it is in faxable or email form,<BR>&gt;&gt; even better.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The relevant documentation, FM 23-65, is available on-line at<BR>&gt; http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/query/download/FM+23-65<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Many thanks<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:25:55 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt;Presumably ISO certification would require that you have you processes well<BR>&gt;documented and that you stuck to them? I imagine also that ISO compliancy<BR>&gt;evolves over time, requiring that the compliancy cetification be<BR>&gt;quantified...presumably by numbers? Would we have reached ISO 9000 by 1120?<BR>&gt;:)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dean<BR><BR>I wouldn't expect that this is much of a problem. The 3I has been at GTL10<BR>for almost a thousand years. Even with the "new" GTL11 and GTL12 stuff only<BR>a few centuries old I don't suppose that designs change much over all that<BR>time. I would expect that your great grandfather's computer would look just<BR>like your computer. It would not only have the same landline I/O networking<BR>interface, but use the same frequency for it's wireless hookups. It would<BR>have the same amount of memory, use the same storage media, whatever that<BR>might be, and the same central processor. Its encryption algorithms might be<BR>different, but they will be no more sophisticated or secure. That's what a<BR>lack of technological progress is all about.<BR><BR>Grandma's aircar will have the same features, the same controls and the same<BR>engine as yours does. All the features that consumers wanted were added<BR>about eight hundred years ago. The thought that it could be improved would<BR>be so far outside the box that no one would even consider it.<BR><BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>PS when my players come up with a new and unique way to use an old<BR>technology, and then ask why hasn't anyone ever thought of doing it before<BR>that's how I close them down. If it's for their own use, fine. I let them do<BR>it. But if it has to be approved by any government or corporation type it's<BR>an automatic no go. "After all if it was a good idea we'd already be doing<BR>it." If they're trying to sell it, same thing. "Why would I need that, I've<BR>never needed it before?"<BR><BR>It's a whole different way of thinking. It's also the only reasonable<BR>explanation for a couple of thousand years of flat technological progress.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3247<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3248</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/1/00 12:08:02 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 1 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3248<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: English-language world domination?<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>Niven/Barnes books<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR>running down pedestrians<BR>RE: running down pedestrians<BR>Re: running down pedestrians<BR>RE: English-language world domination?<BR>RE: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: English-language world domination?<BR>Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>RE: English-language world domination?<BR>Re: running down pedestrians<BR>Re: DVDs in the far future<BR>Re: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>Re: running down pedestrians<BR>Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:45:23 -0000 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>&gt; I've had to train a roomful of Chinese engineers with only <BR>&gt; two of them who<BR>&gt; understood English.<BR><BR>Of course if a Chinese engineer was teaching some English engineers I'd<BR>be surprised if *any* of them understood Chinese... Or if they did it<BR>would be the wrong version...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:33:30 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; I wouldn't expect that this is much of a problem. The 3I has <BR>&gt; been at GTL10<BR>&gt; for almost a thousand years. <BR><BR>Oh yeah. D'oh!<BR><BR>Even with the "new" GTL11 and <BR>&gt; GTL12 stuff only<BR>&gt; a few centuries old I don't suppose that designs change much <BR>&gt; over all that<BR>&gt; time. I would expect that your great grandfather's computer <BR>&gt; would look just<BR>&gt; like your computer. It would not only have the same landline <BR>&gt; I/O networking<BR>&gt; interface, but use the same frequency for it's wireless <BR>&gt; hookups. It would<BR>&gt; have the same amount of memory, use the same storage media, <BR>&gt; whatever that<BR>&gt; might be, and the same central processor. Its encryption <BR>&gt; algorithms might be<BR>&gt; different, but they will be no more sophisticated or secure. <BR>&gt; That's what a<BR>&gt; lack of technological progress is all about.<BR><BR>Point.<BR><BR>&lt;snip Grandma's aircar and Terry's Players&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's a whole different way of thinking. It's also the only reasonable<BR>&gt; explanation for a couple of thousand years of flat <BR>&gt; technological progress.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Curses, I'm used to thinking like the denizen of a rapidly maturing<BR>technocracy. Geez, I'm a Solomani! <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:45:36 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Terry Carlino wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I wouldn't expect that this is much of a problem. The 3I has been at GTL10<BR>&gt; for almost a thousand years. Even with the "new" GTL11 and GTL12 stuff only<BR>&gt; a few centuries old I don't suppose that designs change much over all that<BR>&gt; time. I would expect that your great grandfather's computer would look just<BR>&gt; like your computer. It would not only have the same landline I/O networking<BR>&gt; interface, but use the same frequency for it's wireless hookups. It would<BR>&gt; have the same amount of memory, use the same storage media, whatever that<BR>&gt; might be, and the same central processor. Its encryption algorithms might be<BR>&gt; different, but they will be no more sophisticated or secure. That's what a<BR>&gt; lack of technological progress is all about.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Grandma's aircar will have the same features, the same controls and the same<BR>&gt; engine as yours does. All the features that consumers wanted were added<BR>&gt; about eight hundred years ago. The thought that it could be improved would<BR>&gt; be so far outside the box that no one would even consider it.<BR><BR>I absolutely agree.&nbsp; <BR>I would add that the average inhabitant of the Third Imperium <BR>probably doesn't *expect* to see any significant technological<BR>changes in his or her lifetime, and just about *everything* <BR>has a touch of that "timeless and changeless" quality that *we* <BR>only associate with things in fairy tales and epic poetry.<BR>(this, by the way, is why I argued so strongly against the<BR>survival of "science fiction" as a recognizable literary genre<BR>in the Third Imperium -- most people just aren't anxious about, <BR>or even conscious of, technological change).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:57:29 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Niven/Barnes books<BR><BR>&lt;Leonard Erickson&gt;<BR>Don't forget the sequel "Beowulf's Children". Nor the other<BR>Niven/Barnes collaboration set in the same universe (but a different<BR>star system)...<BR><BR>I can't recall the title of that last one, but it's an object lesson in<BR>what lack of a trace element can do to you.<BR>&lt;/LE&gt;<BR><BR>You're thinking of "Destiny's Road", I think.&nbsp; I'm not sure, but ISTR that<BR>it was just Niven on that one, no Barnes.&nbsp; The missing element was<BR>potassium, which is vital for neural function (along with sodium and lots<BR>of other stuff).&nbsp; Bananas would sell for big bucks on that world...<BR><BR>BTW, DR was a pretty good book, but the Niven/Pournelle/Barnes group still<BR>hasn't been Mote in God's Eye, IMO.&nbsp; The only complaint I have about that<BR>is that they chopped out the opening space combat scene (it later appeared<BR>in one of the "Best of All Possible Worlds" anthologies, IIRC), which<BR>would have given a "slow start" book a better opening kick, I think. Just<BR>some ramblings...<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:03:57 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Terry Carlino wrote:<BR>&gt; time. I would expect that your great grandfather's computer <BR>&gt; would look just like your computer.<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; Grandma's aircar will have the same features, the same controls<BR>&gt; and the same engine as yours does.<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Take this a step further: your computer wouldn't be&nbsp; "just&nbsp; like"<BR>your gandfather's, it would&nbsp; *be*&nbsp; your&nbsp; grandfather's&nbsp; ...&nbsp; your<BR>personal hand comp would be a family heirloom&nbsp; passed&nbsp; down&nbsp; from<BR>generation to generation (the hand carved filligree on the screen<BR>bazel almost worn away with age).<BR><BR>Ditto for granny's aircar ... which could have started out&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>young persons aircar, some sort of&nbsp; turbo-charged&nbsp; racing&nbsp; hotrod<BR>(now being driven by little old granny before she hands it on&nbsp; in<BR>her Will).<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 08:08:14<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 5FW Queries for Marc &amp; Loren (was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>At 10:57 PM 10/31/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I've got to yank your chain Doug...) Just how many times will your group of <BR>&gt;PC's run into a gaggle of Dukes in one room? You must run REAL high level <BR>&gt;campaigns...:-)<BR><BR>I once ran a palace intrigue game set on Capital.&nbsp; So running into a dozen<BR>people, all of whom had the same form of address, was not uncommon.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 08:14:15<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>At 07:05 PM 10/31/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Douglas E. Berry shared:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Some of the most moving filk you've ever heard.&nbsp; My personal favorite is<BR>&gt;&gt; Steve Savitsky's "Keep the Dream Alive'<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; http://thestarport.org/people/steve/Doc/Songs/dream.html<BR><BR>&gt;WOW!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's been a long time since a filk choked me up.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Thanks, Doug.<BR><BR>De Nada.&nbsp; Steve is a good friend, and he and Coleen open their house ever<BR>Wednsday to whomever happens to wander by.&nbsp; This tradition started when<BR>Coleen had her first baby, and needed to hear adults speak.&nbsp; That baby is<BR>now a high school sophmore.<BR><BR>If you want a good counterpoint to KtDA, read "Rocket Rider's Prayer."<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 11:56:40 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>I was just wondering, as I dodged a homicidal driver on my way home, how<BR>much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?&nbsp; I<BR>suppose that the effect would be similar for an air/raft, ground car,<BR>helicopter, airplane, etc. (assuming that you miss the spinning parts).<BR>Perhaps 1D per 20 kph?&nbsp; Has anyone thought this out?<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:56:27 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Which system are you using?<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Ian Ferguson [mailto:ian@vax2.concordia.ca]<BR>&gt; Sent: 01 November 2000 15:57<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: running down pedestrians<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was just wondering, as I dodged a homicidal driver on my <BR>&gt; way home, how<BR>&gt; much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; suppose that the effect would be similar for an air/raft, ground car,<BR>&gt; helicopter, airplane, etc. (assuming that you miss the <BR>&gt; spinning parts).<BR>&gt; Perhaps 1D per 20 kph?&nbsp; Has anyone thought this out?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Peez<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 11:18:53 -0600<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I was just wondering, as I dodged a homicidal driver on my way home, how<BR>&gt; much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; suppose that the effect would be similar for an air/raft, ground car,<BR>&gt; helicopter, airplane, etc. (assuming that you miss the spinning parts).<BR>&gt; Perhaps 1D per 20 kph?&nbsp; Has anyone thought this out?<BR><BR>Which game system? For GURPS, its (HP * Speed [in mph])/200 dice inflicted.<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 08:58:36 -0800<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I have been amazed when I do business in places like Hong Kong,<BR>&gt; Singapore,<BR>&gt; &gt; Germany, Israel, and so forth, how much English is *the* language of<BR>&gt; &gt; business.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, I've done business in most of those places and a few<BR>&gt; others, and while<BR>&gt; _some_ of the people spoke English, the majority did not, and my hosts<BR>&gt; basically had to go out of their way to help me fit in, because I don't<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mind you, I didn't stick to the hotels and the central business districts,<BR>&gt; my work took me to the highlands of the Phillipines and the Gobi dessert,<BR>&gt; and social occassions consisted of drinking Chinese and<BR>&gt; Phillipino engineers<BR>&gt; under the table in local bars with dirt floors and people on the door<BR>&gt; carrying automatic weapons for security.<BR><BR>That's because, in Traveller terminology, I'm taking part in a Merchant<BR>campaign now, so I deal with VPs, CIOs, GMs, and the like, where English is<BR>almost necessary for success. It sounds like you are part a more classic<BR>Traveller game, in which a group of rogues travels the Spinward Marches in<BR>search of fame and fortune.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:17:51 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>I just read that and went goosebumps from head to toe.&nbsp; Wow.<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of D Smart<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 5:06 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry shared:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Some of the most moving filk you've ever heard.&nbsp; My personal favorite is<BR>&gt; Steve Savitsky's "Keep the Dream Alive'<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://thestarport.org/people/steve/Doc/Songs/dream.html<BR><BR>Wow.<BR><BR>Let me rephrase that.<BR><BR>WOW!<BR><BR>It's been a long time since a filk choked me up.<BR><BR>Thanks, Doug.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 11:43:14 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Luther Martin wrote :<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I have been amazed when I do business in places like Hong Kong, Singapore,<BR>&gt; &gt; Germany, Israel, and so forth, how much English is *the* language of<BR>&gt; &gt; business.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, I've done business in most of those places and a few others, and while<BR>&gt; _some_ of the people spoke English, the majority did not, and my hosts<BR>&gt; basically had to go out of their way to help me fit in, because I don't<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mind you, I didn't stick to the hotels and the central business districts,<BR>&gt; my work took me to the highlands of the Phillipines and the Gobi dessert,<BR>&gt; and social occassions consisted of drinking Chinese and Phillipino engineers<BR>&gt; under the table in local bars with dirt floors and people on the door<BR>&gt; carrying automatic weapons for security.<BR><BR>And here we a wonderful real-world example of the difference between the<BR>HQ and the Field branch of the IISS.<BR>;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 11:52:38 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>Peter Scarrott wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, (which gives you some<BR>&gt; idea how bad a hurricane really is.)&nbsp; In addition the tornado reported on<BR>&gt; the South coast, probably wouldn't make local news in the US (it was too<BR>&gt; minor.)&nbsp; Please note this in no way detracts from the effects of property<BR>&gt; damage and injuries or the emotional damage suffered by people over here.<BR><BR>Well reports of a tornado and the arial photos of the tornado-hit areas<BR>did hit CNN here.<BR><BR>Tornados, while they occur worldwide, are pretty rare (and thus<BR>newsworthy) just about anywhere outside the American midwest. I'll bet<BR>only the really bad ones here make the news outside of the US.<BR><BR>I mean "The 375th identified tornado of the year touched down briefly<BR>outside the small Oklahoma town of Smithville yeasterday afternoon. No<BR>injuries and only mild property damage were reported" just doesn't lend<BR>itself to wide news distribution...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:03:26 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Then get your authorized dealer to do it for you. That's what we do over<BR>&gt; here.<BR>&gt; In fact most DVD players are sold new over here with region encoding<BR>&gt; disabled.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Actually, under the DCMA here in the US, doing that is _illegal_. It is<BR>'circumventing copyright protection devices' like DeCSS.<BR><BR>Welcome to the Brave New World. :-(<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:28:13 -0500<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have also read this article, "What Global Language?" by Barbra Wallraff,<BR>&gt; and I, like the apparently extremely insightful Craig Berry, also disagree<BR>&gt; with the author's overall conclusion. Why? Because Wallraff seems to ignore<BR>&gt; the big driver:&nbsp; the economics involved. Like I mentioned in a recent post,<BR>&gt; in "A History of Language," the author remarks that one big driver for the<BR>&gt; wide appeal of English is that the higer-paying jobs today tend to require<BR>&gt; English. So we see people all over the world learning English to help them<BR>&gt; get ahead.<BR><BR>Quite a while ago I posted a reference to a web page containing a study<BR>where they attempted to provide 3 pieces of data: number of speakers<BR>of a language (I don't remember whether this was primary only or primary<BR>and secondary), average normalized wealth per speaker and then a calculated<BR>value indicating the combined 'economic might' of speakers of the language.<BR><BR>English and Japanese topped the list by a long shot. Due to the<BR>multiplicative effect of the incredible relative wealth of the Japanese<BR>and Americans everything else dropped off quite quickly.<BR><BR>In the 3I, the languages of rich, hi-pop worlds will domiante for this<BR>reason - you have to speak it for your products to be consumed by them<BR>(catering to the largest markets) and these rich, hi-pop worlds are often<BR>huge "producers of culture", mostly because their huge populations<BR>make them huge producers of nearly everything. Smaller worlds will<BR>have some influence in specific areas, but the big players will<BR>dominate everything else.<BR><BR>ForEx: Israel has a relative big hi-tech industry for a small nation,<BR>helped by a lot of investment from the US. There may be some regional<BR>differences between, say, Intel Israel and Intel US, but in some ways <BR>Intel Israel may well be much more American than Iraeli. (Though I<BR>have no experience with said company, so YMMV).<BR><BR>&gt; I have been amazed when I do business in places like Hong Kong, Singapore,<BR>&gt; Germany, Israel, and so forth, how much English is *the* language of<BR>&gt; business. <BR><BR>Apparently the lack of translations for certain technical publications in<BR>German and Japanese provide an effective trade secret mechanism, leading<BR>to a lag in certain technical areas in the US, like chemistry and a <BR>bunch of related disciplines - biochemistry, IC fabrication engineering,<BR>etc. (This is from the IEEE Professional Communication Society Journal).<BR><BR>Ethan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:36:14 +0000<BR>From: Ewan Quibell &lt;E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>The Government ran a "Kill your speed" campaign on the TV not so long<BR>ago, and to encourage people to slow down in there cars along<BR>residential streets they quoted statistics on child survival rate again<BR>speed of impact (hard but effective IMO).<BR><BR>The difference between 20, 30 and 40 miles an hour (32 kph, 48 kph and<BR>64 kph) was significant. I can't remember the figures as quoted but I<BR>think the survival rate dropped sharply like 90%, 50%, 30%. I could well<BR>be wrong, and if anyone knows the actual stats please correct me.<BR><BR>Weather this would apply to adults I can't say, but if anyone knows the<BR>percentage of skydivers who survive falls at terminal velocity, or the<BR>percentage of adults who survive car accidents against speed, that might<BR>give you a place to start.<BR><BR>Anyway I hope this helps.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Ewan<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was just wondering, as I dodged a homicidal driver on my way home, how<BR>&gt; much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; suppose that the effect would be similar for an air/raft, ground car,<BR>&gt; helicopter, airplane, etc. (assuming that you miss the spinning parts).<BR>&gt; Perhaps 1D per 20 kph?&nbsp; Has anyone thought this out?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Peez<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Ewan Quibell&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Their's not to make reply,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Senior Communications Engineer&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Their's not to reason why,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Network Services&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Their's but to do and die:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; University of Brighton&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Into the valley of Death<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rode the six hundred.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; #include&lt;stddisclaimer.h&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 11:40:50 -0800<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: DVDs in the far future<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; The data on a DVD is *encrypted*. Which means that without a good idea<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; of what the original data is supposed to look like (or a functioning<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; reader) it'll be very hard if not impossible to restore the data.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; DVDs are a poor example of a valid principle, Leonard. I think more people <BR>&gt; &gt; have access to code which _decrypts_ DVDs than to the rest of the code <BR>&gt; &gt; required to make a working DVD playback system. DeCSS is probably the most <BR>&gt; &gt; widely distributed code snippet since the four-line "this is a munition" <BR>&gt; &gt; 128-bit encryption script.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sure, but that code is useless if you have DVD *player* rather than a<BR>&gt; DVD *drive*.<BR><BR>- -useless +needless<BR><BR>If you have a DVD player, it already knows how to decrypt the data, <BR>doesn't it? <BR><BR>But that wasn't the point - we're trying to figure out if Eneri Xboatpilot<BR>can _build_ a working DVD player because he wants to watch _The Matrix_ over <BR>and over in jumpspace. All I'm suggesting is that it's more likely that the <BR>DeCSS decryptor will be easier to find than things like, e.g., the MPEG spec, <BR>without which DVD data is almost as incomprehensible as if it were encrypted.<BR><BR>Hmmm... I feel an ObTrav coming on...<BR><BR>A representative from a struggling holovid studio approaches the party with <BR>a job offer. He wants Our Heroes to bring him a millenia-old piece of <BR>consumer electronics. Unfortunately, the only known place to find such a beast <BR>is in a landfill on a nearby world. The landfill is considered sacred ground/<BR>historical monument, and defiling/vandalizing the site carries the death <BR>penalty/a hefty fine.<BR><BR>The studio hasn't had a successful release in years. Somehow they've found<BR>some obsolete media and want to analyze what made those old flatvids so <BR>great. If they get the player, working or not, they can reverse-engineer it <BR>and convert the media to newer formats, and use it as a template for remakes<BR>of such classics as _The Lost World_. Unfortunately, they never do figure <BR>out that it's all about marketing, and they go under anyway.<BR><BR>- -RB<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:14:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 07:05 PM 10/31/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Douglas E. Berry shared:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Some of the most moving filk you've ever heard.&nbsp; My personal favorite is<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve Savitsky's "Keep the Dream Alive'<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; http://thestarport.org/people/steve/Doc/Songs/dream.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;WOW!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;It's been a long time since a filk choked me up.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Thanks, Doug.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; De Nada.&nbsp; Steve is a good friend, and he and Coleen open their house ever<BR>&gt; Wednsday to whomever happens to wander by.&nbsp; This tradition started when<BR>&gt; Coleen had her first baby, and needed to hear adults speak.&nbsp; That baby is<BR>&gt; now a high school sophmore.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you want a good counterpoint to KtDA, read "Rocket Rider's Prayer."<BR><BR>And if you want just plain *fun* listen to Tom Smith's "Rocket Ride"!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:18:27 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; And since the US government regulations define encryption<BR>&gt;&gt; software as military equipment, would he have to be flayed if<BR>&gt;&gt; he wanted to leave the country?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As I understand it: no.&nbsp; There is a loophole in US&nbsp; law&nbsp; so&nbsp; that<BR>&gt; *compiled* encryption&nbsp; software&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp; "war&nbsp; munition"&nbsp; but&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; printed hardcopy of the sourcecode is not.<BR><BR>Nope. <BR><BR>There was a rather prominent lawsuit based on a Professor not being<BR>able legally post an example of a *simple* encryption algorithm on a<BR>web site for his students without getting an export license. <BR><BR>As I recall, he won the suit not that many months back, but the verdict<BR>is being appealed.<BR><BR>&gt; The company that puts out PGP (for example) develops the code&nbsp; in<BR>&gt; the US then prints it out and binds it into&nbsp; books.&nbsp; An&nbsp; employee<BR>&gt; then openly walk through an airport and takes&nbsp; it&nbsp; abroad.&nbsp; There<BR>&gt; the code is scanned into a computer where it is compiled&nbsp; to&nbsp; for<BR>&gt; the "international" version ... that's why there is a version 5.0<BR>&gt; (or whatever) and a version 5.0i: 5,0 is compiled in the US, 5.0i<BR>&gt; is compiled outside the US from the *same* sourcecode.<BR><BR>Nope. That is (or was) illegal without an export license. <BR><BR>The thing is, the source code has been *smuggled* out many a time. And<BR>once out, there's not much the US can do about it.<BR><BR>For real fun, consider that the RSA folk had a Japanese division which<BR>came up with a major improvement. Japan doesn't have these silly laws.<BR>So they *imported* the code. And don't have to get an export license,<BR>since the code originiated outside the US!<BR><BR>Mind you, the bureacrats *still* haven't gotten the point... :-(<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:33:09 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I was just wondering, as I dodged a homicidal driver on my way home, how<BR>&gt; much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; suppose that the effect would be similar for an air/raft, ground car,<BR>&gt; helicopter, airplane, etc. (assuming that you miss the spinning parts).<BR>&gt; Perhaps 1D per 20 kph?&nbsp; Has anyone thought this out?<BR><BR>Damage from vehicular impact tends to go as the *square* of the velocity.<BR><BR>So if it's 1D at 20 kph, it'll be *4*D at 40 kph. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:25:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, (which gives you some<BR>&gt; idea how bad a hurricane really is.)<BR><BR>Probably a gale. As I recall, those start around 50 mph wind speed.<BR>Hurricanes start at 75. And consider that the force of the wind goes up<BR>as the *square* of the windspeed.<BR><BR>&gt; In addition the tornado reported on<BR>&gt; the South coast, probably wouldn't make local news in the US (it was too<BR>&gt; minor.)&nbsp; Please note this in no way detracts from the effects of property<BR>&gt; damage and injuries or the emotional damage suffered by people over here.<BR><BR>Where I live, tornados are uncommon. It'd been about 40 years since we<BR>had one around here. We had a possibly one a week or two back, and last<BR>week we had a "funnel cloud" that didn't touch down.<BR><BR>Both made the news!<BR><BR>What got me was a few days later when the weatherman showed some<BR>footage of "mammattae"(sp) clouds and commented on them being an<BR>indication of strong winds at upper levels. But he *didn't* note that<BR>they were often a precursor to tonadoes!<BR><BR>&gt; Ob Trav : Weather reports on planet will be based on the local perception of<BR>&gt; weather systems.&nbsp; That minor storm South of Duraq may have wind speeds in<BR>&gt; excess of 100mph!!!!!!!!&nbsp; A heatwave may consist of temperatures above<BR>&gt; freezing for 4 consecutive days.<BR><BR>And one planet's "minor tectonic activity" may be a major quake or<BR>eruption on another...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:37:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Besides<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; which getting the region code&nbsp; processing&nbsp; function&nbsp; disabled&nbsp; is<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; fairly routine for&nbsp; consumers&nbsp; so&nbsp; just&nbsp; about&nbsp; everyone&nbsp; I&nbsp; know<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; (including myself) has&nbsp; had&nbsp; it&nbsp; done.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I'm not going to mess with my player while it's under warranty.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Then get your authorized dealer to do it for you. That's what we do over<BR>&gt; here.<BR>&gt; In fact most DVD players are sold new over here with region encoding<BR>&gt; disabled.<BR><BR>I'm fairly sure that the *dealers* _can't_ do that here in the US. Not<BR>if they want to stay dealers. In fact, under that $&amp;E$%^&amp; "Digital<BR>Millenium Copright Act" it's almost certainly *illegal* for *anyone* to<BR>do so. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3248<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, November 2 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3249<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: running down pedestrians<BR>[www] 29 Oct 00 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>RE: English-language world domination?<BR>Re: [OT] Weapon Question<BR>Re: running down pedestrians<BR>Re : running down pedestrians<BR>Worldbuilding blunder : help!<BR>An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: running down pedestrians<BR>TravellerUK mailing list for Hebden Bridge<BR>Re: Worldbuilding blunder : help!<BR>Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR>RE: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Sky Hooks<BR>Views<BR>HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: TML world domination? (was RE: English-language world domination?)<BR>Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR>RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR>RE: Views<BR>RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: books that survived<BR>RE: DVDs in the far future<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:33:21 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Dean Jones writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;how much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?<BR>&gt;Which system are you using?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ;-)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CT<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:05:17 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [www] 29 Oct 00 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has<BR>posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and<BR>http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.&nbsp; <BR><BR>This update features:<BR><BR>- James Jensen brings us what we hope will be the first of many adventures<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; of T. C. Harrison. Read it in Raconteur's Rest.<BR><BR>- The GDW/FarFuture Published Products list, annexed to the FAQ in the<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Information Center, has been updated to reflect the release of the<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; latest volume of the Classic Traveller Reprints.<BR><BR>- Some minor corrections to the entry for Mark Nordstrand's _My_Traveller_<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; _Universe_ utilities, on the Other Systems page in the Computer<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Connection in the Information Center.<BR><BR>- Billye Gilbert joins the ranks of naval architects who have docks at<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Freelance Traveller's Shipyard with the unveiling of the Type YY<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Shuttle.<BR><BR>- James Jensen also brings us a method of generating more capable<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 'Classic' characters.&nbsp; Read about it in Doing It My Way.<BR><BR>- Chapter five of Fred Ramen's serial, _The_Hostile_Stars_, is now<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; available in Raconteur's Rest.<BR><BR>Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance<BR>Traveller.&nbsp; Please write to freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all<BR>of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may<BR>be temporarily disabled.&nbsp; Freelance Traveller depends on the good will of<BR>Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our existence, and to<BR>write for us, making our existence possible.<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation to The<BR>Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to Executive Network<BR>Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com) for hosting services. Without<BR>organizations willing to cooperate with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing<BR>needs, we would be unable to bring you the articles and other resources<BR>that have made Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on<BR>the 'net.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:06:00 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: English-language world domination?<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Luther Martin<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, 2 November 2000 05:59<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: English-language world domination?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I have been amazed when I do business in places like Hong Kong,<BR>&gt; &gt; Singapore,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Germany, Israel, and so forth, how much English is *the* language of<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; business.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Well, I've done business in most of those places and a few<BR>&gt; &gt; others, and while<BR>&gt; &gt; _some_ of the people spoke English, the majority did not, and my hosts<BR>&gt; &gt; basically had to go out of their way to help me fit in, because I don't<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Mind you, I didn't stick to the hotels and the central business<BR>&gt; districts,<BR>&gt; &gt; my work took me to the highlands of the Phillipines and the<BR>&gt; Gobi dessert,<BR>&gt; &gt; and social occassions consisted of drinking Chinese and<BR>&gt; &gt; Phillipino engineers<BR>&gt; &gt; under the table in local bars with dirt floors and people on the door<BR>&gt; &gt; carrying automatic weapons for security.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's because, in Traveller terminology, I'm taking part in a Merchant<BR>&gt; campaign now, so I deal with VPs, CIOs, GMs, and the like, where<BR>&gt; English is almost necessary for success. It sounds like you are part a<BR>more<BR>&gt; classic Traveller game, in which a group of rogues travels the Spinward<BR>Marches in<BR>&gt; search of fame and fortune.<BR><BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR>Good way of putting it, though I don't think we could really be called<BR>rogues !<BR><BR>I'd say you're playing the Merchant game that gets the contracts signed for<BR>delivery of high tech equipment. I was playing the game where once the<BR>contracts are signed, someone has to install the equipment and train the<BR>locals who are using it. Probably similar to a "Cadre" mission from<BR>Mercenary, but it was comms gear, not mlitary hardware.<BR><BR>Though on another occasion the Gong Ahn(sp?)(Chinese secret police) did ask<BR>if we could change the handhelds so that they could be blown up on command,<BR>in case someone got hold of one who wasn't supposed to have it.<BR><BR>Ever thought of trying that on your characters when they knock out the guard<BR>and pick up his com unit ?<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:56:57 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [OT] Weapon Question<BR><BR>Was asked:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I am looking for the FM or other reference material detailing head<BR>spacing<BR>&gt;&gt; and timing of the M2 .50 cal MG.&nbsp; If you have this info or know where I<BR>&gt;can<BR>&gt;&gt; get it, please let me know.&nbsp; If it is in faxable or email form, even<BR><BR><BR>Regards head space my remembrance is that one of the common American coins<BR>fits the head space gap if you don't have the tool.&nbsp; Problem is I can't<BR>remember which one.&nbsp; It had to be either a penny, nickel or dime.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:51:04 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>On 1 Nov 2000, at 19:36, Ewan Quibell wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The Government ran a "Kill your speed" campaign on the TV not so long<BR>&gt; ago, and to encourage people to slow down in there cars along<BR>&gt; residential streets they quoted statistics on child survival rate again<BR>&gt; speed of impact (hard but effective IMO).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The difference between 20, 30 and 40 miles an hour (32 kph, 48 kph and<BR>&gt; 64 kph) was significant. I can't remember the figures as quoted but I<BR>&gt; think the survival rate dropped sharply like 90%, 50%, 30%. I could well<BR>&gt; be wrong, and if anyone knows the actual stats please correct me.<BR><BR>There's a similar campaign being run here at the moment, and IIRC they're <BR>quuoting a rate of 95% of people hit at 67 kph dying.<BR><BR>One could probably get some stats by asking your local traffic department or <BR>police station for them, come to think of it.<BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:30:10 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : running down pedestrians<BR><BR>In response to Ian Ferguson's question, Ewan Quibell wrote :-<BR>&gt; The difference between 20, 30 and 40 miles an hour (32 kph, 48 kph and<BR>&gt; 64 kph) was significant. I can't remember the figures as quoted but I<BR>&gt; think the survival rate dropped sharply like 90%, 50%, 30%. I could well<BR>&gt; be wrong, and if anyone knows the actual stats please correct me.<BR><BR>That's actually pretty close.<BR>50% mortality is at 40km/h for pedestrian vs. car, from the trauma<BR>literature.<BR><BR>The graph is probably sigmoid (a 'dose-response' curve).<BR>I'd punt for an LD10 (10% kill) of 20km/h, and an LD90 (90% kill) of<BR>80km/h. This obviously assumes contemporary trauma management.<BR><BR>I'd be inclined to add velocities to determine damage. So if someone<BR>runs at 20km/h into an oncoming car, things get worse for them...<BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:30:21 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Worldbuilding blunder : help!<BR><BR>After plowing through the accumulated mail and other downloads, I found<BR>this, from the 'G:Planet of Adventure' playtest :-<BR><BR>&gt; Tschai's atmosphere is thick, with a surface pressure of about 150% that<BR>&gt; of Earth's at sea level. The air contains 74% nitrogen, 17% oxygen, 4%<BR>&gt; water vapor, 2% carbon dioxide, 2% sulfur compounds and 1% neon. <BR>&gt; There is also a good deal of airborne dust.<BR><BR>The planet orbits its primary (a K? V) at a mean distance of 1.12 AU.<BR><BR>In any case, the atmospheric composition above is incompatible with<BR>long-term human survival. Acutely, the problem is due to the toxicity of<BR>the carbon dioxide, sulphur compounds and particulates.<BR><BR>Over the long term, 6% of the atmosphere is made up of some very good<BR>greenhouse gases. IMHO, this is far more than is required to maintain a<BR>habitable temperature, given the orbital radius and star type.<BR><BR>Was anyone on this list involved in the playtest?<BR>I'm wondering if any suggestions were made to change the numbers quoted<BR>above.<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 00:29:33 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>Hi folks,<BR>heres an idea i just had, maybe its something to follow up on...<BR>On other lists, mostly fanfic lists and the like, challenges are regularly <BR>set, that other members try to fulfill. How about doing something similar <BR>on the TML.<BR>We have all complained about the relative lack of adventures for Traveller <BR>published since the advent of TNE. The publishers told us, that the market <BR>for adventures is smaller than the market for sourceboks, so thats where <BR>theyd rather put their money. Understandable, IMHO. So why dont we write <BR>more adventures ourselves, and publish them on the list? One member sets a <BR>challenge, some points which the adventure must have, some details on the <BR>perils and adversaries and so on. Other members interested may decide to <BR>take the challenge and write an adventure along the guidelines set by the <BR>challenger. Ater a certain deadline, the best, ie most interesting, or most <BR>detailed, or most innovative adventure wins. The contenders could post <BR>preliminary drafts, and invite comments by others and try 5o improve upon <BR>their adventures accordingly. The decision lies with the challenger, as he <BR>set the challenge. The winner may get a small price, or recognition on the <BR>list for his achievement. Mostly, writing an adventure should be a labor of <BR>love, however.<BR>The entries could all be posted (with permission) on a homepage, so we <BR>could build a library of themed adventures as time goes by. We could share <BR>our ideas and hone our adventure writing and GMing skills.<BR>So, how about it? Lets make the TML an even better resource...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 23:48:49 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>RBasler1@aol.com wrote....<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, just a quick note to the list:&nbsp; I made it to Reading, and even<BR>&gt;though I might have a couple of days to see the countryside, the area is<BR>&gt;flooding, the hotel is now in the middle of a lake (no kidding, I had to get<BR>&gt;ferried to the nearest roundabout in a boat), and the trains were shut down.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You guys sure know how to show someone a good time ;o)<BR><BR>We laid it on specially for you... ;-)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;(All kidding aside, I'm still having fun - it is a nice country you have<BR>&gt;here)&nbsp; And a stack of BITS stuff is due to come into the FLGS tomorrow!<BR>&gt;....if only I can get into town again to pick them up.....&lt;grrrrr&gt;<BR><BR>Let me know what you think of it...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 18:08:44 -0600<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;how much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?<BR>&gt; &gt;Which system are you using?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller.<BR><BR>CT? MT? TNE? T4?<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 00:08:47 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: TravellerUK mailing list for Hebden Bridge<BR><BR>Travelleruk-subscribe@egroups.com<BR><BR>Is the address the Hebden Bridge mailing list - *THE* UK Traveller Convention.<BR><BR>A weekend of Traveller only.... Nick Walker and Jae Campbell deserve <BR>a medal....<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 18:13:20 -0600<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Worldbuilding blunder : help!<BR><BR>Robert O'Connor wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; After plowing through the accumulated mail and other downloads, I found<BR>&gt; this, from the 'G:Planet of Adventure' playtest :-<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Tschai's atmosphere is thick, with a surface pressure of about 150% that<BR>&gt; &gt; of Earth's at sea level. The air contains 74% nitrogen, 17% oxygen, 4%<BR>&gt; &gt; water vapor, 2% carbon dioxide, 2% sulfur compounds and 1% neon.<BR>&gt; &gt; There is also a good deal of airborne dust.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In any case, the atmospheric composition above is incompatible with<BR>&gt; long-term human survival. Acutely, the problem is due to the toxicity of<BR>&gt; the carbon dioxide, sulphur compounds and particulates.<BR><BR>Given that, IIRC, the world has working magic on it, I don't think it needs to<BR>obey to the laws of physics (though there needs to be a good handwave). I can<BR>check on the playtest group and see if anything was brought up.<BR><BR>Also, IIRC, wasn't this planet part of the Dying Earth series? It might help<BR>explain things if true.<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:47:01 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>On 1 Nov 2000, at 11:52, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Peter Scarrott wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, (which gives you some<BR>&gt; &gt; idea how bad a hurricane really is.)&nbsp; In addition the tornado reported on the<BR>&gt; &gt; South coast, probably wouldn't make local news in the US (it was too minor.) <BR>&gt; &gt; Please note this in no way detracts from the effects of property damage and<BR>&gt; &gt; injuries or the emotional damage suffered by people over here.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well reports of a tornado and the arial photos of the tornado-hit areas<BR>&gt; did hit CNN here.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tornados, while they occur worldwide, are pretty rare (and thus<BR>&gt; newsworthy) just about anywhere outside the American midwest. I'll bet<BR>&gt; only the really bad ones here make the news outside of the US.<BR><BR>We get a reasonable number up around Mount Taranaki, some years. However <BR>nothing like below.<BR><BR>&gt; I mean "The 375th identified tornado of the year touched down briefly<BR>&gt; outside the small Oklahoma town of Smithville yeasterday afternoon. No<BR>&gt; injuries and only mild property damage were reported" just doesn't lend<BR>&gt; itself to wide news distribution...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; University of Arizona<BR>&gt; College of Pharmacy<BR>&gt; Information Technology Group<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:03:52<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Moving Filks (was RE: Re: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>At 09:17 AM 11/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I just read that and went goosebumps from head to toe.&nbsp; Wow.<BR><BR>Well, since y'all seemed to like that one, here's Kathy Mar's contribution.<BR>Kathy and I have crossed swords several times (she dislikes gamers, since<BR>our room at BayCon is usally close to the open filk) but she's one of the<BR>best.<BR><BR>http://www.xocolatl.com/kathy/MINUS.html<BR><BR>I remember that we were at a poly/fannish gathering when we heard that Alan<BR>Sheppard had died.&nbsp; Kathy immediately played that song, and the night<BR>turned inot a marathon filksing.&nbsp; We did every space related song we could<BR>think of.<BR><BR>To keep the mood a bit light after that heavy song, and since Ground Forces<BR>shipped today, check out this song:<BR><BR>http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/swil/FILKS/filkbook2.html#17<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 21:37:10 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sky Hooks<BR><BR>Tage Borg wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Ok this question goes out to all you gearheads...Does a Sky hook have to<BR>...<BR>&gt; You will have to think out a way to manage to keep the station in a stable<BR>&gt; orbit, even though it protrudes into the atmosphere, and docking craft to<BR>&gt; its lower end won't be easy. But also remember that moving things up inside<BR>&gt; the station also propels the station downwards.<BR><BR>Two elevators that run on schedule in opposite directions.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 19:36:52 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Views<BR><BR>Hey guys,<BR><BR>Just found this<BR><BR>http://www.overseer3d.com/<BR><BR>It basically takes Campaign Cartographer 2 files and turns them into 3D<BR>views of the continent or city, and then traverse them, including the<BR>ability to add weather effects.<BR><BR>Perhaps those doing Traveller mapping software might like to talk to these<BR>people too ?<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 23:08:56 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>Based on the Striker rules, I think HEAP shotgun rounds should be<BR>feasible.&nbsp; Such rounds exist for 10mm snub pistols, so why not 18mm<BR>shotguns?<BR><BR>Stats for a 10 round magazine:<BR>Weight: 4 kg<BR>Cost: 12 Cr<BR>Penetration:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; TL 7: 3<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; TL 9: 9<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; TL 11: 12<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; TL 13: 15<BR><BR>The penetration values should convert directly into MegaTraveller.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Comments?<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 23:27:19 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TML world domination? (was RE: English-language world domination?)<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; As further proof that the TML readership rules the world, this month's<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Atlantic magazine features a cover story on the prospects for English<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; becoming the dominant world language.&nbsp; The author's take on it is a<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; qualified 'no'.&nbsp; Not sure I agree, but it's an intriguing piece.&nbsp; All<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; participants in this debate should go read it.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; OMG...you don't suppose WE'RE the Illuminati, do you? FNORD.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You haven't read the FAQ very carefully, have you?<BR><BR>Cardinal Biggles..... Bring out the Comfy Chair!!<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 00:02:12 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: IISS required viewing &amp; reading<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 07:44 PM 10/31/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; You _have_ to add<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; The Legacy of Heorot<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Don't forget the sequel "Beowulf's Children". Nor the other<BR>&gt; &gt;Niven/Barnes collaboration set in the same universe (but a different<BR>&gt; &gt;star system)...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; One book I found useful was Chandler's "The Far Traveller".<BR><BR>Then there is that contact classic "Emile and the Dutchman", by Joel Rosenberg.<BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:05:42 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, (which <BR>&gt; gives you some<BR>&gt; &gt; idea how bad a hurricane really is.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Probably a gale. As I recall, those start around 50 mph wind speed.<BR>&gt; Hurricanes start at 75. And consider that the force of the <BR>&gt; wind goes up<BR>&gt; as the *square* of the windspeed. <BR><BR>Speed was recorded as around 90.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:20:02 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hey guys,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just found this<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.overseer3d.com/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It basically takes Campaign Cartographer 2 files and turns <BR>&gt; them into 3D<BR>&gt; views of the continent or city, and then traverse them, including the<BR>&gt; ability to add weather effects.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps those doing Traveller mapping software might like to <BR>&gt; talk to these<BR>&gt; people too ?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Wow, Frank, that is so cool! That settles it, I am SO getting myself CC2 for<BR>Christmas!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:09:05 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On 1 Nov 2000, at 11:52, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Peter Scarrott wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, <BR>&gt; (which gives you some<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; idea how bad a hurricane really is.)&nbsp; In addition the <BR>&gt; tornado reported on the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; South coast, probably wouldn't make local news in the US <BR>&gt; (it was too minor.) <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Please note this in no way detracts from the effects of <BR>&gt; property damage and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; injuries or the emotional damage suffered by people over here.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Well reports of a tornado and the arial photos of the <BR>&gt; tornado-hit areas<BR>&gt; &gt; did hit CNN here.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Tornados, while they occur worldwide, are pretty rare (and thus<BR>&gt; &gt; newsworthy) just about anywhere outside the American <BR>&gt; midwest. I'll bet<BR>&gt; &gt; only the really bad ones here make the news outside of the US.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; We get a reasonable number up around Mount Taranaki, some <BR>&gt; years. However <BR>&gt; nothing like below.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I mean "The 375th identified tornado of the year touched <BR>&gt; down briefly<BR>&gt; &gt; outside the small Oklahoma town of Smithville yeasterday <BR>&gt; afternoon. No<BR>&gt; &gt; injuries and only mild property damage were reported" just <BR>&gt; doesn't lend<BR>&gt; &gt; itself to wide news distribution...<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR><BR><BR>I guess so. However, combine the weather (and the continued flooding) with<BR>widespread cancellations of train services (due to shoddy/no maintenance<BR>work on the railway infra structure) and the upcoming petrol blockades<BR>(remeber those from a couple months ago? The protestors gave Tori Planb 60<BR>days to drop fuel prices...and they've gone up twice) and you've got a<BR>recipe for wackyness!<BR><BR>OB-Trav: The PCs are on the other side of the continent from the Starport<BR>when all the above breaks out at once...and they have contractual<BR>obligations/perishable cargo/penalty fees for staying too long in the<BR>starport. <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 20:38:50 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: books that survived<BR><BR>VonRammen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; First, I want to note that given that Terra itself was apparently not bombed<BR>&gt; or invaded during the Interstellar Wars, it's likely that much of its<BR>&gt; pre-starflight heritage was preserved *somewhere* on the planet, in<BR>&gt; archives, libraries and museums. So the question is what has survived to be<BR>&gt; reasonably familiar to the educated Imperial of the 57th century.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't think that any genre fiction--scifi, horror, romance--will survive.<BR>&gt; Genre fiction has been written for centuries, and only the very rare example<BR>&gt; survives. Stephen King's sheer productivity won't buy him immortality.<BR>&gt; Anyone ever hear of Ned Buntline? He (and the writers he commissioned to<BR>&gt; write under his name) produed literally hundreds of Western dime novels in<BR>&gt; the 19th century. He mostly survives as a bit of "color" in modern Western<BR>&gt; novels.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Likewise, there were hundreds of writers writing "domestic fiction" in the<BR>&gt; 19th Century that are totally unknown today.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>OTOH data storage is more advanced these days...in the near future publishing<BR>will (might) move from hardcopy to softcopy... it's easier to archive this and<BR>keeping a copy of (e.g) " A Civil Campaign" on a longterm data store down a salt<BR>mine somewhere (or several somewheres) shouldn't be too hard...does anyone have<BR>a figure for the the total written output of the human race to date? to the<BR>nearest Gb?<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:27:57 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: DVDs in the far future<BR><BR>&gt; Hmmm... I feel an ObTrav coming on...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A representative from a struggling holovid studio approaches <BR>&gt; the party with <BR>&gt; a job offer. He wants Our Heroes to bring him a millenia-old piece of <BR>&gt; consumer electronics. Unfortunately, the only known place to <BR>&gt; find such a beast <BR>&gt; is in a landfill on a nearby world. The landfill is <BR>&gt; considered sacred ground/<BR>&gt; historical monument, and defiling/vandalizing the site <BR>&gt; carries the death <BR>&gt; penalty/a hefty fine.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The studio hasn't had a successful release in years. Somehow <BR>&gt; they've found<BR>&gt; some obsolete media and want to analyze what made those old <BR>&gt; flatvids so <BR>&gt; great. If they get the player, working or not, they can <BR>&gt; reverse-engineer it <BR>&gt; and convert the media to newer formats, and use it as a <BR>&gt; template for remakes<BR>&gt; of such classics as _The Lost World_. Unfortunately, they <BR>&gt; never do figure <BR>&gt; out that it's all about marketing, and they go under anyway.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Good one, but kinda fatalistic and cynical, isn't it?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3249<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, November 2 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3250<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re : Worldbuilding blunder : help!<BR>Re : running down pedestrians<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>RE: Re : running down pedestrians<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>RE: recoverable tech<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>Jump Tapes (was RE: recoverable tech)<BR>Re: Views<BR>RE: running down pedestrians<BR>RE: running down pedestrians<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>RE: Views<BR>RE: Moving Filk<BR>re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Traveller Gearhead ring.<BR>A note on languages<BR>RE: A note on languages<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:15:34 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : Worldbuilding blunder : help!<BR><BR>Brandon Cope wrote :-<BR>&gt; Given that, IIRC, the world has working magic on it, I don't think it needs to<BR>&gt; obey to the laws of physics (though there needs to be a good handwave).<BR><BR>No, Tschai is the setting one of Vance's space operas. Apart from Dugbo<BR>witch-doctoring and ubiquitous antigrav, there are no mages, spells, or<BR>other fantasy paraphenalia of any sort.<BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:24:18 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Figures vary, depending on the studies quoted.<BR><BR>E.g. from an NBC warfare manual :-<BR><BR>Velocity&nbsp;&nbsp; %fatal&nbsp;&nbsp; suggested damage*<BR>6.6 m/s&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ~1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2D<BR>17m/s&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 50&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6D<BR>44.5m/s&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 99&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 15D<BR><BR>* using standard ST+DX+EN for health ; an easier method might be to<BR>apply 3D per 20km/h of impact velocity.<BR><BR>40-50km/h seems to be the LD50 for adults.<BR><BR>Obviously training and protective gear increases survivability greatly<BR>(look at top-end motorcycle racing as an example)...<BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:09:24 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; As I understand it: no.&nbsp; There is a loophole in US&nbsp; law&nbsp; so&nbsp; that<BR>&gt; &gt; *compiled* encryption&nbsp; software&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp; "war&nbsp; munition"&nbsp; but&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; printed hardcopy of the sourcecode is not.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nope. <BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>There seems to be a lot of conflicting information&nbsp; going&nbsp; around<BR>... but I guess I'll have to accept&nbsp; your&nbsp; version&nbsp; as&nbsp; you&nbsp; have<BR>higher credability rating than mass media.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; For real fun, consider that the RSA folk had a Japanese division<BR>&gt; which came up with a major improvement. Japan doesn't have these<BR>&gt; silly laws. So they *imported* the code. And don't have to get an<BR>&gt; export license, since the code originiated outside the US!<BR><BR>I've heard of a similar situations.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Mind you, the bureacrats *still* haven't gotten the point... :-(<BR><BR>They never do.&nbsp; I&nbsp; wonder&nbsp; if&nbsp; there&nbsp; will&nbsp; ever&nbsp; be&nbsp; a&nbsp; socially<BR>acceptable cure.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:12:37 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There seems to be a lot of conflicting information&nbsp; going&nbsp; around<BR>&gt; ... but I guess I'll have to accept&nbsp; your&nbsp; version&nbsp; as&nbsp; you&nbsp; have<BR>&gt; higher credability rating than mass media.<BR><BR>Agreed. I also find Leonard more credible than mass media.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Mind you, the bureacrats *still* haven't gotten the point... :-(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They never do.&nbsp; I&nbsp; wonder&nbsp; if&nbsp; there&nbsp; will&nbsp; ever&nbsp; be&nbsp; a&nbsp; socially<BR>&gt; acceptable cure.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Which reintroduces the TML's favourite topic, near-c rocks ;)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:17:05 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard Erickson wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Besides<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; which getting the region code&nbsp; processing&nbsp; function&nbsp; disabled&nbsp; is<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; fairly routine for&nbsp; consumers&nbsp; so&nbsp; just&nbsp; about&nbsp; everyone&nbsp; I&nbsp; know<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; (including myself) has&nbsp; had&nbsp; it&nbsp; done.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; I'm not going to mess with my player while it's under warranty.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Then get your authorized dealer to do it for you. That's <BR>&gt; what we do over<BR>&gt; &gt; here.<BR>&gt; &gt; In fact most DVD players are sold new over here with region encoding<BR>&gt; &gt; disabled.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm fairly sure that the *dealers* _can't_ do that here in the US. Not<BR>&gt; if they want to stay dealers. In fact, under that $&amp;E$%^&amp; "Digital<BR>&gt; Millenium Copright Act" it's almost certainly *illegal* for <BR>&gt; *anyone* to<BR>&gt; do so. <BR><BR><BR>I think the modification of DVD players to circumvent regional coding and<BR>the purchase of Region 1 discs is actually a grey area in the UK...not that<BR>I'm going to stop ordering US discs or give up my player :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:37:07 -0000 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Re : running down pedestrians<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Robert O'Connor [mailto:robocon@ozemail.com.au]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Obviously training and protective gear increases survivability greatly<BR>&gt; (look at top-end motorcycle racing as an example)...<BR><BR>Yeah, but the forces involved in falling of a motorcycle are different<BR>to being hit by one. In the falling off scenario, you decelerate<BR>gradually as you tumble around, and the peak acceleration/deceleration<BR>is much less than the sudden application of hundred+ kilo's travelling<BR>at &gt;10 m/s (36 km/h).<BR><BR>Say a 630kg object hits you at 10m/s. Thats the kinetic energy<BR>equivalent of a 70kg person hitting the ground at 30m/s. 30m/s is a 3<BR>second fall in 1G (roughly), or a fall of 45m!<BR><BR>Obviously, after being hit by a vehicle a lot of the energy is used up<BR>damaging the car, making a loud 'bang', and finally in tumbling around<BR>on the ground a bit, but the peak accelerations are going to be much<BR>higher than falling of a m/c doing 100km/h.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:44:03 -0000 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 02 November 2000 11:09<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; As I understand it: no.&nbsp; There is a loophole in US&nbsp; law&nbsp; so&nbsp; that<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; *compiled* encryption&nbsp; software&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp; "war&nbsp; munition"&nbsp; but&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; printed hardcopy of the sourcecode is not.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Nope. <BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There seems to be a lot of conflicting information&nbsp; going&nbsp; around<BR>&gt; ... but I guess I'll have to accept&nbsp; your&nbsp; version&nbsp; as&nbsp; you&nbsp; have<BR>&gt; higher credability rating than mass media.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; For real fun, consider that the RSA folk had a Japanese division<BR>&gt; &gt; which came up with a major improvement. Japan doesn't have these<BR>&gt; &gt; silly laws. So they *imported* the code. And don't have to get an<BR>&gt; &gt; export license, since the code originiated outside the US!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've heard of a similar situations.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Mind you, the bureacrats *still* haven't gotten the point... :-(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They never do.<BR><BR>And in any case, IIRC the algorithm is fair simple, once you have<BR>discovered it, so unless the are going to brainwipe people who know it<BR>before the go abroad, there's nothing to stop people reading it in the<BR>US, flying abroad and writing it down elsewhere...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:00:28 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Mind you, the bureacrats *still* haven't gotten the point... :-(<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; They never do.&nbsp; I&nbsp; wonder&nbsp; if&nbsp; there&nbsp; will&nbsp; ever&nbsp; be&nbsp; a&nbsp; socially<BR>&gt; &gt; acceptable cure.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Which reintroduces the TML's favourite topic, near-c rocks ;)<BR><BR>Since I don't have direct access to space and my arm isn't *that*<BR>strong: are&nbsp; nowhere-near-c-but-still-quite-fast&nbsp; rocks&nbsp; socially<BR>acceptable?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:07:24 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Mind you, the bureacrats *still* haven't gotten the point... :-(<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; They never do.&nbsp; I&nbsp; wonder&nbsp; if&nbsp; there&nbsp; will&nbsp; ever&nbsp; be&nbsp; a&nbsp; socially<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; acceptable cure.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Which reintroduces the TML's favourite topic, near-c rocks ;)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Since I don't have direct access to space and my arm isn't *that*<BR>&gt; strong: are&nbsp; nowhere-near-c-but-still-quite-fast&nbsp; rocks&nbsp; socially<BR>&gt; acceptable?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>As long as youe escape route includes neither British trains or anything<BR>petrol-driven :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:29:20 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; I think the modification of DVD players to circumvent regional<BR>&gt; coding and the purchase of Region 1 discs is actually a grey area<BR>&gt; in the UK...not that I'm going to stop ordering US discs or give<BR>&gt; up my player :)<BR><BR>Region coding is not considered an anti-copying device ... its&nbsp; a<BR>grey area because you're circumventing the censor.&nbsp; However&nbsp; this<BR>mainly applies to sales (no UK company can import Region 1&nbsp; discs<BR>for trade, but non-UK companies can sell discs&nbsp; to&nbsp; UK&nbsp; residents<BR>... provided its not porn).&nbsp; Note that when&nbsp; you&nbsp; see&nbsp; FACT&nbsp; (the<BR>Federation Against Copyright Theft) pursuing this that is bacause<BR>FACT is a *trade* alliance, not a consumer group.<BR><BR>Many of the de-regionalising fixs on offer (you have to&nbsp; get&nbsp; the<BR>right one for your specific machine) also&nbsp; includes&nbsp; deactivating<BR>the Macrovision circuit.&nbsp; Macrovision *is* an anti-copying device<BR>but the justification is that many TVs only have a&nbsp; single&nbsp; SCART<BR>socket so you have a legitimate reason for wanting to route&nbsp; your<BR>DVD player output *through* your VCR.<BR><BR>(FYI for non-Europeans: SCART&nbsp; plugs&nbsp; are&nbsp; multi-pin&nbsp; plugs&nbsp; used<BR>between TVs and VCRs for sound and vision that work&nbsp; better&nbsp; than<BR>coax wire.&nbsp; Many, but not all, European TVs have a&nbsp; single&nbsp; SCART<BR>socket, almost all European VCRs have two.)<BR><BR>Many of the DVD mod&nbsp; kits&nbsp; are&nbsp; available&nbsp; for&nbsp; DIY&nbsp; use&nbsp; if&nbsp; any<BR>Americans want to buy Region 2 discs&nbsp; (like&nbsp; the&nbsp; Prisoner&nbsp; boxed<BR>set) ... but then you're back to the warrenty issue.<BR><BR>ObTrav: IIRC in CT you could buy single use jump navigation tapes<BR>instead of using the Navigation software to&nbsp; plot&nbsp; a&nbsp; jump.&nbsp; What<BR>anti-copying issues surround this (or does&nbsp; no&nbsp; one&nbsp; bother&nbsp; with<BR>this)?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:09:20 -0000 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Jump Tapes (was RE: recoverable tech)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR><BR>&gt; ObTrav: IIRC in CT you could buy single use jump navigation tapes<BR>&gt; instead of using the Navigation software to&nbsp; plot&nbsp; a&nbsp; jump.&nbsp; What<BR>&gt; anti-copying issues surround this (or does&nbsp; no&nbsp; one&nbsp; bother&nbsp; with<BR>&gt; this)?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR><BR>Well, I would presume that the tape is only valid for a few days tops,<BR>as otherwise orbital motions will have altered planetary positions<BR>sufficiently that you may now emerge an uneconomical distance away from<BR>your destination. i.e. the time delay in reaching port isn't worth the<BR>cost of a new Jump Tape.<BR><BR>And a purchase from an authorised dealer will provide a receipt that can<BR>be set against tax... and no-one wants to end up tangling with the<BR>Imperial Revenue Marines...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 07:55:24 -0600<BR>From: Stormhound &lt;stormhnd@fidnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Unfortunately, the site only works for IE5, and not any other browser.&nbsp; Oh,<BR>well, guess they didn't need *my* custom...<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; http://www.overseer3d.com/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It basically takes Campaign Cartographer 2 files and turns them into 3D<BR>&gt; views of the continent or city, and then traverse them, including the<BR>&gt; ability to add weather effects.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Stormhound<BR>DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 08:59:58 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Robert O'Connor writes:<BR>&gt;That's actually pretty close.<BR>&gt;50% mortality is at 40km/h for pedestrian vs. car, from the trauma<BR>&gt;literature.<BR>&gt;The graph is probably sigmoid (a 'dose-response' curve).<BR>&gt;I'd punt for an LD10 (10% kill) of 20km/h, and an LD90 (90% kill) of<BR>&gt;80km/h. This obviously assumes contemporary trauma management.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This is an excellent starting point.&nbsp; Do you happen to have LD10,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50 and 90 for gunshot wounds (ie. rifle: 3D damage)?<BR><BR>&gt;I'd be inclined to add velocities to determine damage. So if someone<BR>&gt;runs at 20km/h into an oncoming car, things get worse for them...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If someone runs at 20 kph into an oncoming car, they deserve<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; what they get.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:02:19 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Brandon Cope writes:<BR>&gt;Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Dean Jones writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;how much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Which system are you using?<BR>&gt;&gt;Traveller.<BR>&gt;CT? MT? TNE? T4?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It was in the post, but you snipped it out:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;&lt;<BR>Dean Jones writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;how much damage should I apply to characters struck by moving vehicles?<BR>&gt;Which system are you using?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ;-)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CT<BR><BR>Peez<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:21:59 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 02 November 2000 12:29<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I think the modification of DVD players to circumvent regional<BR>&gt; &gt; coding and the purchase of Region 1 discs is actually a grey area<BR>&gt; &gt; in the UK...not that I'm going to stop ordering US discs or give<BR>&gt; &gt; up my player :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Region coding is not considered an anti-copying device ... its&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; grey area because you're circumventing the censor.<BR><BR>Never said it was...that's Macrovision 'quality protection'<BR><BR>&nbsp; However&nbsp; this<BR>&gt; mainly applies to sales (no UK company can import Region 1&nbsp; discs<BR>&gt; for trade, but non-UK companies can sell discs&nbsp; to&nbsp; UK&nbsp; residents<BR>&gt; ... provided its not porn).&nbsp; Note that when&nbsp; you&nbsp; see&nbsp; FACT&nbsp; (the<BR>&gt; Federation Against Copyright Theft) pursuing this that is bacause<BR>&gt; FACT is a *trade* alliance, not a consumer group.<BR><BR>THe name says it all 'Federation Against Copyright Theft' ...their job is to<BR>safeguard royalties.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Many of the de-regionalising fixs on offer (you have to&nbsp; get&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; right one for your specific machine) also&nbsp; includes&nbsp; deactivating<BR>&gt; the Macrovision circuit.&nbsp; Macrovision *is* an anti-copying device<BR>&gt; but the justification is that many TVs only have a&nbsp; single&nbsp; SCART<BR>&gt; socket so you have a legitimate reason for wanting to route&nbsp; your<BR>&gt; DVD player output *through* your VCR.<BR><BR>As I understand Macrovision it increases the signal strength and somehow<BR>'overwhealms' the VCR...is that correct?<BR><BR>&lt;snip SCART&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;snip a rather good Ob-Trav&gt;<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:02:57 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; THe name says it all 'Federation Against Copyright Theft' <BR>&gt; ...their job is to safeguard royalties.<BR><BR>As long as you buy a&nbsp; legitimate&nbsp; copy&nbsp; it&nbsp; shouldn't&nbsp; ultimately<BR>matter if you buy it from the US or the UK.&nbsp; (I accept there is a<BR>case for the latest films which are released on disc before their<BR>theatrical showing.)&nbsp; Unless of course&nbsp; we&nbsp; are&nbsp; ripped-off&nbsp; (ie.<BR>paying more than our US cousins) but that never happens does it!<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; As I understand Macrovision it increases the signal strength <BR>&gt; and somehow 'overwhealms' the VCR...is that correct?<BR><BR>My understanding (which may not be correct) is that it causes the<BR>very top of the picture to 'wobble over'.&nbsp; When such a signal&nbsp; is<BR>played on a TV this distortion is hidden by the&nbsp; top&nbsp; bazel,&nbsp; but<BR>when taken as input by a domestic VCR the VCR cannot&nbsp; synchronise<BR>to it and thus ends up recording garbbage.<BR><BR>Macrovision can only be applied to analogue signals.&nbsp; With a pre-<BR>recorded video tape a Macrovision-processed&nbsp; analogue&nbsp; signal&nbsp; is<BR>recorded.&nbsp; With digital sources (like&nbsp; DVD&nbsp; players,&nbsp; Sky&nbsp; boxes,<BR>etc) a Macrovision circuit in the appliance&nbsp; adds&nbsp; the&nbsp; treatment<BR>after the data is read and converted into&nbsp; analogue&nbsp; to&nbsp; send&nbsp; to<BR>your TV.&nbsp; Using direct digital connection are not yet&nbsp; a&nbsp; concern<BR>as DVD recorders haven't really hit the domestic market yet ... I<BR>don't know anything about the digital VCR.<BR><BR>When a film or whatever&nbsp; is&nbsp; protected&nbsp; by&nbsp; Macrovision&nbsp; a&nbsp; small<BR>royalty is paid by the publisher to the Macrovision company.&nbsp; Not<BR>everyone wants to pay this, so Macrovision is&nbsp; optional.&nbsp; In&nbsp; the<BR>case of Macrovision circuits in appliances they are only on if&nbsp; a<BR>code on the disc (or whatever) actives it.&nbsp; (Or, in the&nbsp; case&nbsp; of<BR>my 'mod'ed DVD player: never.)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:58:48 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>That's why I have *both* Internet Exploder and Netscrape installed on my<BR>systems (that, and checking for compatibility when I'm creating web pages ;)<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Stormhound<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 5:55 AM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Unfortunately, the site only works for IE5, and not any other browser.<BR>Oh,<BR>well, guess they didn't need *my* custom...<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; http://www.overseer3d.com/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It basically takes Campaign Cartographer 2 files and turns them into 3D<BR>&gt; views of the continent or city, and then traverse them, including the<BR>&gt; ability to add weather effects.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Stormhound<BR>DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:22:29 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Moving Filk<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;To keep the mood a bit light after that heavy song, and since Ground Forces<BR>&gt;shipped today, check out this song:<BR>&gt;<BR>http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/swil/FILKS/filkbook2.html#17<BR><BR>It's good to see the traditions at my alma mater continuing on into the new<BR>millenium.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:24:48 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Based on the Striker rules, I think HEAP shotgun rounds should be<BR>&gt;feasible.&nbsp; Such rounds exist for 10mm snub pistols, so why not 18mm<BR>&gt;shotguns?<BR><BR>I am generally in favor of HEAP shotgun rounds.&nbsp; While you're thinking about<BR>small arms, would you mind taking a crack at Striker statistics for the<BR>automatic rocket launcher.&nbsp; It's in JTAS no. 11 or 12, I think.&nbsp; It's a TL<BR>10, higher caliber, fully automatic, version of the accelerator rifle, with<BR>a variety of rounds (including HEAP).&nbsp; TL 10 makes it perfect for Mongo.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:53:41 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Based on the Striker rules, I think HEAP shotgun rounds should be<BR>&gt; &gt;feasible.&nbsp; Such rounds exist for 10mm snub pistols, so why not 18mm<BR>&gt; &gt;shotguns?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I am generally in favor of HEAP shotgun rounds.&nbsp; While you're thinking<BR>about<BR>&gt; small arms, would you mind taking a crack at Striker statistics for the<BR>&gt; automatic rocket launcher.&nbsp; It's in JTAS no. 11 or 12, I think.&nbsp; It's a TL<BR>&gt; 10, higher caliber, fully automatic, version of the accelerator rifle,<BR>with<BR>&gt; a variety of rounds (including HEAP).&nbsp; TL 10 makes it perfect for Mongo.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Given that HEAP shotgun rounds have been experimentally produced by both the<BR>US and Argentina, it seems logical that such a beast should exist in the<BR>Traveller universe.&nbsp; The biggest issue with HEAP rounds is that penetration<BR>is proportional to charge diameter.&nbsp; Realistically, small round like the<BR>10mm SNUB and even the 18.5mm shotgun are going to be pretty limited (though<BR>probably adequate against any armor a sophont will be wearing).&nbsp; Do you also<BR>have HE grenades for the shotgun?&nbsp; There's an interesting write up on the<BR>Argentine minigrenade (shotgun fired)&nbsp; in Thomas Swearengen's "Worlds<BR>Fighting Shotguns".<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:01:29 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller Gearhead ring.<BR><BR>"I've set up a parallel gearhead webring on ringsurf.<BR>Anybody who has had to deal with yahoo webring will know why I did this.<BR>Anybody who wants to join, or move their site from the Yahoo webring, can <BR>use this URL<BR>http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?ring=travgearhead;action=addform<BR>I plan on keeping the yahoo webring up and running, but my management <BR>functions have been crippled under yahoo.<BR>Also note that new sites are stuck with the ugly java based navbar &amp; <BR>everyone has to manage thier own site &amp; that requires a Yahoo ID.&nbsp; i.e. If <BR>you move your site, under yahoo, I can't change the URL, you have to.<BR><BR>Check out the Traveller Gearhead Webring homepage.<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/3584/gearheadring.html<BR><BR>You can find ring code examples and graphics there.<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued<BR>other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and<BR>rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:09:16 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: A note on languages<BR><BR>From the Cool Fact of the Day mailing list<BR><BR>Centuries ago, English was mostly spoken by a few million people in<BR>the British Isles, and there were a few local dialects such as Irish<BR>English.&nbsp; But in the last century, the language has exploded across<BR>the world and diversified, picking up many words and pronunciation<BR>styles from local tongues.<BR><BR>Measured by the number of people for whom English is their first<BR>language, 72% speak American English and 16% use British English.<BR>6% use Canadian English, 5% use Australian English and 1% use New<BR>Zealand English.&nbsp; There are also dozens of minor dialects, including<BR>Caribbean, South African, (Asian) Indian, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh.<BR><BR>Even within American English there are significant regional<BR>differences.&nbsp; Boston English is different from the language spoken in<BR>Atlanta, and Chicago English is different from both of them.<BR><BR>More about English dialects:<BR>http://eleaston.com/world_english.html<BR>http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/pix/english.gif<BR><BR>A Cool Fact about the most-spoken language in the world:<BR>http://features.LearningKingdom.com/fact/archive/1999/01/05.html<BR><BR>- --------------------------------<BR><BR>I'd go on to say that British English fragments as much as American English <BR>does.<BR>These folks state that English is the second most common language on the <BR>planet now.<BR>Mandarin is first.<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued<BR>other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and<BR>rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:40:26 -0000 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: A note on languages<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Mark Urbin [mailto:urbin@bigfoot.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 02 November 2000 17:09<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: A note on languages<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; From the Cool Fact of the Day mailing list<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Centuries ago, English was mostly spoken by a few million people in<BR>&gt; the British Isles, and there were a few local dialects such as Irish<BR>&gt; English.&nbsp; But in the last century, the language has exploded across<BR>&gt; the world and diversified, picking up many words and pronunciation<BR>&gt; styles from local tongues.<BR><BR>Most of the spread occurred well before 100 years ago...<BR><BR>The US, Canada, Caribbean, Australia, India, South Africa, New<BR>Zealand... all had English introduced prior to 1900, in the case of the<BR>US, all the way back to the early 1600's<BR><BR>&gt; Measured by the number of people for whom English is their first<BR>&gt; language, 72% speak American English and 16% use British English.<BR>&gt; 6% use Canadian English, 5% use Australian English and 1% use New<BR>&gt; Zealand English.&nbsp; There are also dozens of minor dialects, including<BR>&gt; Caribbean, South African, (Asian) Indian, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh.<BR><BR>The majority of English speakers have it as a second or third language<BR>though. It is for this reason that English is the current Lingua Franca,<BR>as there is a good chance that anywhere you go in the world you will<BR>find *someone* who speaks a little English, which is not likely with<BR>most other languages.<BR><BR>&gt; I'd go on to say that British English fragments as much as <BR>&gt; American English <BR>&gt; does.<BR>&gt; These folks state that English is the second most common <BR>&gt; language on the <BR>&gt; planet now.<BR>&gt; Mandarin is first.<BR><BR>But how widespread is Mandarin? Outside China and various 'Chinatown'<BR>enclaves it will only be rarely encountered. You could probably conduct<BR>business in China speaking English, but trying to hold a business<BR>meeting in Chinese outside China or a Chinatown is an exercise in<BR>futility.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3250<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, November 2 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3251<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Ground Forces question<BR>Re: Adventure Challenge<BR>GT Humaniti<BR>Re: Adventure Challenge<BR>Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>Visit to NASM<BR>re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>Re: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR>Re: Worldbuilding blunder : help!<BR>Re: Sky Hooks<BR>Re: Re : running down pedestrians<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250<BR>Re: Adventure Challenge<BR>re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>Re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>Re : running down pedestrians<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>A late entry...<BR>Re: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:44:34 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Ground Forces question<BR><BR>So it's printed and shipping.&nbsp; Any idea of when it's going to be available <BR>on Amazon?<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:53:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Adventure Challenge<BR><BR>&lt;Volker A.G.&gt;<BR>So why don4t we write more adventures ourselves, and publish them on the<BR>list? One member sets a challenge, some points which the adventure must<BR>have, some details on the perils and adversaries and so on. Other members<BR>interested may decide to take the challenge and write an adventure along<BR>the guidelines set by the challenger. <BR>&lt;/VAG&gt;<BR><BR>This is a very cool idea, Volker, why don't you issue the first challenge?<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:52:39 -0600<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>GURPS Traveller Humaniti<BR>This book series will address the biology, home worlds, culture, and<BR>society of 17 Human minor races for GURPS Traveller. These writeups will<BR>follow the format set out for minor races in Alien Races 1-4. Contributions<BR>of one or more race writeups will be open to inquiry by all interested<BR>parties, as was done for Alien Races 4.<BR><BR>Each submission will address one race. It will give concise accounts of<BR>their historical involvement with the Imperium, and will include racial<BR>templates. The author should be familiar not only with GURPS Traveller, but<BR>also the original Classic Traveller source material.<BR><BR>Seven of the races in Humaniti will be original creations by outside<BR>authors. The remaining races, open for inquiry, include:<BR><BR>Answerin: From Challenge 52.<BR>Darrians: From the GDW alien module of the same name.<BR>Dynchia: JTAS 24.<BR>Geonee: Research Station Gamma<BR>Iltharan: aka K'tring, Night of Conquest.<BR>Irhadre: GDW Darrians module.<BR>Nexxies: Spinward Marches<BR>Otrai: JTAS 13<BR>Suerrat: Research Station Gamma<BR>Yileans:Challenge 52.<BR><BR>Contributors will be paid a flat rate for their work. Those interested<BR>should inquire with Loren Wiseman (see address below), as all races will be<BR>assigned rather than be subject to a general "best of" submissions process.<BR>First draft content will be due Dec 15, 2000.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 18:10:26 -0000<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Adventure Challenge<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Adventure Challenge<BR><BR><BR>&lt;Volker A.G.&gt;<BR>So why don't we write more adventures ourselves, and publish them on the<BR>list? One member sets a challenge, some points which the adventure must<BR>have, some details on the perils and adversaries and so on. Other members<BR>interested may decide to take the challenge and write an adventure along<BR>the guidelines set by the challenger.<BR>&lt;/VAG&gt;<BR><BR>This is a very cool idea, Volker, why don't you issue the first challenge?<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR>&lt;&lt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I think this is a great idea, though a few guide lines would make it<BR>more of a good time well spent.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Maybe something in the lines of whether or not cannon Imperial Society/<BR>History be influenced as a direct result of any of these type of adventures.<BR>If the adventure where set in a scene which could be easily blended into the<BR>scene as it is already set, then there would be no come-back on any who were<BR>involved. A sort of coming together of all people's Traveller Universes, so<BR>no more crossing of wires.<BR>Yeah I like this idea.<BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:01:43 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, (which <BR>&gt;&gt; gives you some<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; idea how bad a hurricane really is.)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Probably a gale. As I recall, those start around 50 mph wind speed.<BR>&gt;&gt; Hurricanes start at 75. And consider that the force of the <BR>&gt;&gt; wind goes up<BR>&gt;&gt; as the *square* of the windspeed. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Speed was recorded as around 90.<BR><BR>Gusts or the "steady" winds?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:03:58 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; There seems to be a lot of conflicting information&nbsp; going&nbsp; around<BR>&gt;&gt; ... but I guess I'll have to accept&nbsp; your&nbsp; version&nbsp; as&nbsp; you&nbsp; have<BR>&gt;&gt; higher credability rating than mass media.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Agreed. I also find Leonard more credible than mass media.<BR><BR>Gee, is this what they call "damning with faint praise"? :-)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:36:57 -0800<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Visit to NASM<BR><BR>Being a Traveller player, I had to stop by the National Air and Space Museum<BR>in Washington, DC today, after I took care of the business part of the day.<BR>I had not been to the NASM for several years, and had forgotten what it was<BR>like.<BR><BR>You get to see exactly how small and cramped those Mercury capsules were,<BR>and you get to see exactly how big the F-1 engines of the Saturn V were.<BR>Seeing the engines for the Saturn V and Atlas reminded me that my father<BR>spent several years of his life designing them, and I couldn't wait to bring<BR>my kids there one day to show them what Grandpa once built.<BR><BR>You get to see exactly how thin the layer of metal is between astronauts and<BR>space. You get to look inside a copy of the Lunar Excursion Module as well<BR>as a copy of Skylab. The Wright Flyer is there. The Spirit of St. Louis is<BR>there. Voyager is there. The Gossamer Condor is there. Lots of good stuff.<BR>The byproducts of the American obsession with making things that fly.<BR><BR>Seeing the SS-20 and Pershing II missiles, I realized that the Cold War will<BR>seem as distant to my kids as World War II seemed to me.<BR><BR>What a great museum.<BR><BR>Maybe spaceflight will someday become commonplace and routine, like in the<BR>Traveller universe, and people will not be as impressed when they visit<BR>museums of old aircraft and spacecraft, but that's a long way off.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 20:36:47 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>At 04:29 -0500 2/11/00, "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;We have all complained about the relative lack of adventures for Traveller<BR>&gt;published since the advent of TNE. The publishers told us, that the market<BR>&gt;for adventures is smaller than the market for sourceboks, so thats where<BR>&gt;theyd rather put their money. Understandable, IMHO.<BR><BR>Not all publishers are the same....<BR><BR>I direct the interested reader to http://www.bits.org.uk/ and the <BR>entries on the products pages for 'SpaceDogs' and 'The Khiidkar <BR>Incident'. There are reviews of both at JTAS and at Freelance <BR>Traveller.<BR><BR>BITS' third adventure 'Delta Three is Down' is presently under <BR>preparation and is planned to be out before Christmas.<BR><BR>101 Patrons &amp; 101 Plots both provide seeds and resources for referees <BR>needing a plot.<BR><BR>If you folks keep on buying them, we'll keep on making them.<BR><BR><BR>Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:07:25 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; I think the modification of DVD players to circumvent regional<BR>&gt;&gt; coding and the purchase of Region 1 discs is actually a grey area<BR>&gt;&gt; in the UK...not that I'm going to stop ordering US discs or give<BR>&gt;&gt; up my player :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Region coding is not considered an anti-copying device ... its&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; grey area because you're circumventing the censor.&nbsp; However&nbsp; this<BR>&gt; mainly applies to sales (no UK company can import Region 1&nbsp; discs<BR>&gt; for trade, but non-UK companies can sell discs&nbsp; to&nbsp; UK&nbsp; residents<BR>&gt; ... provided its not porn).&nbsp; Note that when&nbsp; you&nbsp; see&nbsp; FACT&nbsp; (the<BR>&gt; Federation Against Copyright Theft) pursuing this that is bacause<BR>&gt; FACT is a *trade* alliance, not a consumer group.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Many of the de-regionalising fixs on offer (you have to&nbsp; get&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; right one for your specific machine) also&nbsp; includes&nbsp; deactivating<BR>&gt; the Macrovision circuit.&nbsp; Macrovision *is* an anti-copying device<BR>&gt; but the justification is that many TVs only have a&nbsp; single&nbsp; SCART<BR>&gt; socket so you have a legitimate reason for wanting to route&nbsp; your<BR>&gt; DVD player output *through* your VCR.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (FYI for non-Europeans: SCART&nbsp; plugs&nbsp; are&nbsp; multi-pin&nbsp; plugs&nbsp; used<BR>&gt; between TVs and VCRs for sound and vision that work&nbsp; better&nbsp; than<BR>&gt; coax wire.&nbsp; Many, but not all, European TVs have a&nbsp; single&nbsp; SCART<BR>&gt; socket, almost all European VCRs have two.)<BR><BR>My DVD player has the following connectors:<BR><BR>Digital Audio Out: Coax (an RCA connector)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fiber (some sort of fiber optic connector)<BR>Analog Audio Out: the usual left/right RCA connectors<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Video Out: another RCA connector<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; S-Video Out: an odd 4-pin connector that reminds me of an ADB jack<BR>&nbsp; Component Video: 3 RCA connectors<BR><BR>OBtrav: gear that can be used in multiple applications will have a<BR>similarly large and diverse number of connectors *if* the manufacturer<BR>knows about all of the possible uses. <BR><BR>So you may get a data crystal reader, only to find out that the<BR>manufacturer had only intended it for home entertainment use. So it<BR>doesn't have the connector used by the ship system you wanted to hook<BR>it too. <BR><BR>Alternatively, you get one that has the required connector *as well* as<BR>the standard audio/video/3V outputs. And the engineering crew uses them<BR>to play their favorite crystals when they think the Captain isn't<BR>looking. <BR><BR>ps. The Captain not only *knows*, he bought the reader with the full<BR>set of jacks *on purpose*. He figures that if they are playing their<BR>own crystals on it, they won't let it go unrepaired. And thus he won't<BR>wind up in the situation that lead to the replacement (the old reader<BR>had "died and either nobody noticed, or nobody thought it was<BR>important, as it was only used for reloading the engineering systems<BR>after a *total* system crash... and those "never" happen &lt;eg&gt;)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:24:06 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Worldbuilding blunder : help!<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; After plowing through the accumulated mail and other downloads, I found<BR>&gt; this, from the 'G:Planet of Adventure' playtest :-<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Tschai's atmosphere is thick, with a surface pressure of about 150% that<BR>&gt;&gt; of Earth's at sea level. The air contains 74% nitrogen, 17% oxygen, 4%<BR>&gt;&gt; water vapor, 2% carbon dioxide, 2% sulfur compounds and 1% neon. <BR>&gt;&gt; There is also a good deal of airborne dust.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The planet orbits its primary (a K? V) at a mean distance of 1.12 AU.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In any case, the atmospheric composition above is incompatible with<BR>&gt; long-term human survival. Acutely, the problem is due to the toxicity of<BR>&gt; the carbon dioxide, sulphur compounds and particulates.<BR><BR>For that matter, that 3.8 psi partial pressure of oxygen could be a<BR>problem too. What exactly *is* the level at which a "significant"<BR>portion of the population starts to suffer from oxygen toxicity?<BR><BR>Heck, it occurs to me that we could use a table of max/min safe partial<BR>pressures for various common atmospheric gases. Max for all gases,<BR>including oxygen, and min for oxygen.<BR><BR>I'm thinking we'd need info on the level at which given percentages of<BR>a typical population are impaired and at which given percentages die<BR>(say LD10, LD50, LD90). And notes on the extent to which populations<BR>may be able to adapt (eg Tibetans and Andean Indians can live happily<BR>at O2 levels that'd incapitate normal humans)<BR><BR>Even if graphs where included, it wouldn't take more than a few pages,<BR>and it'd be a nice addition to world building stuff.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:36:28 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Sky Hooks<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Tage Borg wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Ok this question goes out to all you gearheads...Does a Sky hook have to<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt;&gt; You will have to think out a way to manage to keep the station in a stable<BR>&gt;&gt; orbit, even though it protrudes into the atmosphere, and docking craft to<BR>&gt;&gt; its lower end won't be easy. But also remember that moving things up inside<BR>&gt;&gt; the station also propels the station downwards.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Two elevators that run on schedule in opposite directions.<BR><BR>That only works if they have the same mass. Which makes it hard to move<BR>cargo, much less deal with ships docking and undocking.<BR><BR>It's *doable*, but you have to maintain a careful balance between<BR>inbound and outbound cargo *and* have a manuever drive capable of<BR>adjusting the station's orbit.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:44:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Re : running down pedestrians<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In response to Ian Ferguson's question, Ewan Quibell wrote :-<BR>&gt;&gt; The difference between 20, 30 and 40 miles an hour (32 kph, 48 kph and<BR>&gt;&gt; 64 kph) was significant. I can't remember the figures as quoted but I<BR>&gt;&gt; think the survival rate dropped sharply like 90%, 50%, 30%. I could well<BR>&gt;&gt; be wrong, and if anyone knows the actual stats please correct me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's actually pretty close.<BR>&gt; 50% mortality is at 40km/h for pedestrian vs. car, from the trauma<BR>&gt; literature.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The graph is probably sigmoid (a 'dose-response' curve).<BR><BR>I suspect that damage to pedestrians follows a parabolic curve,<BR>modified by the tendency for the body to go flying rather than get<BR>further damaged. Of course, if you go flying, you take take from<BR>whatever object *stops* your flight too...<BR><BR>&gt; I'd punt for an LD10 (10% kill) of 20km/h, and an LD90 (90% kill) of<BR>&gt; 80km/h. This obviously assumes contemporary trauma management.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'd be inclined to add velocities to determine damage. So if someone<BR>&gt; runs at 20km/h into an oncoming car, things get worse for them...<BR><BR>If nothing else, their velocity has to be overcome (causing additional<BR>damage) before they can be "thrown". And that should work the same as<BR>being staionary and struck by a vehicle at the combined velocity. <BR><BR>Damage to limbs might be modified by the fact that they are moving<BR>towards or away from the vehicle at the time of impact (thus adding or<BR>subtracting from the relative velocity).<BR><BR>For a person who is walking, the difference will be negligible. For<BR>someone who is running very fast, the leading leg could be really<BR>mangled while the "trailing" one might be almost undamaged...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 08:58:41 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Frank G. Pitt &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Jones, Dean<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; What does everyone else do?&nbsp; Do you play the 3I as&nbsp; America-writ-large,<BR>&gt; or try to make it different somehow?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Being a Brit, I admit that with my first character was tempted to play<BR>&gt; someone call St. John-Smythe or Fothering-Thomas, or something equally<BR>&gt; unlikely and psuedo-Limey. So I made my guy African. Not African-American,<BR>&gt; but Tanzanian. IMHO, he's the coolest character I've ever played.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I'm also British by birth, and my first Traveller character was a<BR>&gt; Scandinavian Scout, "Jag" Hansen, who had a confused heritage of bikies and<BR>&gt; vikings. My second was Negroid Moslem fighter pilot, Hashid Mohammed. It<BR>&gt; wasn't until my third character, that I indulged my British inclination and<BR>&gt; created the moustachioed Colonel Waverly Archibald Xerxes (W.A.X) Johnson.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Other than once playing a Marine top sergeant patterned on Clint Eastwood's<BR>&gt; character in "Heartbreak Ridge", I don't think I've ever specifically played<BR>&gt; an "American" character in Traveller, or, in the games I've run, ever<BR>&gt; portrayed the Imperium as American either.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mitsuko Kisaragi haut-Rensselaer is actually the first hapa (mixed<BR>&gt; Asian/non-Asian) character I've ever played; I used to make my characters as<BR>&gt; unlike myself as possible.&nbsp; My first Trav character was a bad-girl<BR>&gt; noblewoman named Julissa Myal haut-D'Bari who was half-Vilani; she was<BR>&gt; followed by a good-girl noblewoman who was very unlike me indeed, a<BR>&gt; testosterone-poisoned ace pilot and a Vargr.&nbsp; Then I went through a phase of<BR>&gt; playing gay guys.&nbsp; I haven't played a lot of Japanese gaming characters<BR>&gt; actually.&nbsp; I get annoyed when people do goofy shit they THINK is Japanese.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Just as an aside...what do you (and other people) think of Legend of the Five<BR>Rings...neo-samurai role playing? and other 'neo-historical' background stuff (7<BR>Seas is the only other one I can think of...apart from all the GURPS stuff)<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:13:11 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gone to England (OT)<BR><BR>At 8:05 AM +0000 11/2/00, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; Just to be pedantic, it was a storm not a hurricane, (which<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; gives you some<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; idea how bad a hurricane really is.)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Probably a gale. As I recall, those start around 50 mph wind speed.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hurricanes start at 75. And consider that the force of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; wind goes up<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; as the *square* of the windspeed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Speed was recorded as around 90.<BR><BR><BR>Sustained winds, not gusts, at that level are "hurricane force<BR>winds".&nbsp; A hurricane is an organized storm (and eye, etc.) with<BR>sustained winds at that level.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:44:38 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250<BR><BR>&gt; The name says it all 'Federation Against Copyright Theft' ...their job is to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; safeguard royalties.<BR><BR>Not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with safeguarding royalties . . <BR>. <BR><BR>Loren "a significant chunk of my income comes from royalties" Wiseman<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 23:36:53 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Adventure Challenge<BR><BR>At 18:10 02.11.00 +0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;This is a very cool idea, Volker, why don't you issue the first challenge?<BR><BR>Ok, since you asked, Ill try to make up a challenge.<BR>But not today, as its midnight and i cant really think straight anymore. ;-)<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I think this is a great idea, though a few guide lines would make it<BR>&gt;more of a good time well spent.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Maybe something in the lines of whether or not cannon Imperial Society/<BR>&gt;History be influenced as a direct result of any of these type of adventures.<BR>&gt;If the adventure where set in a scene which could be easily blended into the<BR>&gt;scene as it is already set, then there would be no come-back on any who were<BR>&gt;involved. A sort of coming together of all people's Traveller Universes, so<BR>&gt;no more crossing of wires.<BR>This is what i had in mind, as well, although Id like to see a broad <BR>variety of<BR>adventures. If someone wants to write an adventure that change history, let <BR>him.<BR>We might just not use it, but it might give us great ideas for another <BR>adventure.<BR>Any form of adventure would be acceptable as a general entry, unless its <BR>outside<BR>the limits of the given challenge. Even then, it would probably fun to <BR>read, although it<BR>wont be part of the contest.<BR><BR>Volker<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 23:40:57 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>At 20:36 02.11.00 +0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Not all publishers are the same....<BR><BR>I know, thats why I really like BITS!<BR><BR>&gt;I direct the interested reader to http://www.bits.org.uk/ and the entries <BR>&gt;on the products pages for 'SpaceDogs' and 'The Khiidkar Incident'. There <BR>&gt;are reviews of both at JTAS and at Freelance Traveller.<BR><BR>;-) Guess what Leisure Games just dropped of at my doorstep today ;-)<BR>(Although the other book i wanted, ACQ, was out of stock with them :-(<BR><BR>&gt;BITS' third adventure 'Delta Three is Down' is presently under preparation <BR>&gt;and is planned to be out before Christmas.<BR><BR>Cool, so thats another incentive to order ;-)<BR><BR>&gt;101 Patrons &amp; 101 Plots both provide seeds and resources for referees <BR>&gt;needing a plot.<BR>&gt;If you folks keep on buying them, we'll keep on making them.<BR><BR>Dont worry, we will. But I dont see the Challenges as competiton, but <BR>rather as tools to sharpen ones own skills. Heck, if someone posts really <BR>good adventures on the list, he might become a potential author of BITS <BR>supplements... ;-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 17:43:15 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 04:29:23 -0500 (EST), "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann"<BR>&lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;hereŽs an idea i just had, maybe itŽs something to follow up on...<BR>&gt;On other lists, mostly fanfic lists and the like, challenges are regularly <BR>&gt;set, that other members try to fulfill. How about doing something similar <BR>&gt;on the TML.<BR><BR>&gt;We have all complained about the relative lack of adventures for Traveller <BR>&gt;published since the advent of TNE. The publishers told us, that the market <BR>&gt;for adventures is smaller than the market for sourceboks, so thatŽs where <BR>&gt;theyŽd rather put their money. Understandable, IMHO. So why donŽt we write <BR>&gt;more adventures ourselves, and publish them on the list? One member sets a <BR>&gt;challenge, some points which the adventure must have, some details on the <BR>&gt;perils and adversaries and so on. Other members interested may decide to <BR>&gt;take the challenge and write an adventure along the guidelines set by the <BR>&gt;challenger. Ater a certain deadline, the best, ie most interesting, or most <BR>&gt;detailed, or most innovative adventure wins. The contenders could post <BR>&gt;preliminary drafts, and invite comments by others and try 5o improve upon <BR>&gt;their adventures accordingly. The decision lies with the challenger, as he <BR>&gt;set the challenge. The winner may get a small price, or recognition on the <BR>&gt;list for his achievement. Mostly, writing an adventure should be a labor of <BR>&gt;love, however.<BR><BR>&gt;The entries could all be posted (with permission) on a homepage, so we <BR>&gt;could build a library of themed adventures as time goes by. We could share <BR>&gt;our ideas and hone our adventure writing and GMŽing skills.<BR>&gt;So, how about it? LetŽs make the TML an even better resource...<BR><BR>I'm for this, on general principles.&nbsp; But let me suggest a modification to<BR>this suggestion: Instead of doing it here on the TML, which would<BR>effectively limit it to TML members, why not do it at a website from the<BR>get-go, thus opening it up to people who are interested in Traveller, but<BR>for one reason or another may not be able or willing to join the TML?<BR><BR>Another advantage to that would be that you could have other website<BR>visitors - including those who are afraid to try to write - voice their<BR>opinions of which adventure was best.<BR><BR>(And yes, if people like this idea, but think I should put up or shut up,<BR>I'm perfectly willing - eager, even - to host it on Freelance Traveller!)<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 10:23:53 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Matthew Bond wrote :-<BR>&gt; Obviously, after being hit by a vehicle a lot of the energy is used up<BR>&gt; damaging the car, making a loud 'bang', and finally in tumbling around<BR>&gt; on the ground a bit, but the peak accelerations are going to be much<BR>&gt; higher than falling of a m/c doing 100km/h.<BR><BR>Only 100km/h? Watch a motorcycle Grand Prix sometime.<BR><BR>Seriously, impact durations are on the order of 0.1 seconds in both<BR>cases (rider vs. ground initially, pedestrian vs car). The rider does<BR>decelerate over a longer span of time, which is one reason why he can<BR>survive coming off at such high speeds ; but I suspect that most of the<BR>decelerating is done the first time he strikes the ground.<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson wrote :-<BR>&gt; This is an excellent starting point.&nbsp; Do you happen to have LD10,<BR>&gt; 50 and 90 for gunshot wounds (ie. rifle: 3D damage)?<BR><BR>This is a function of missile velocity and structures traversed.<BR>Tod Glenn would have access to better wound ballistics data than I, I<BR>suspect.<BR><BR>In any case, abdominal wounds have about a 5% to 50% mortality<BR>(pistol-&gt;rifle), chest wounds 5-80% (pistol-&gt;rifle), head wounds better<BR>than 50% (any weapon, if the skull is breached).<BR><BR>High velocity missiles are more likely to kill, but the majority of<BR>ballistic trauma is caused by handgun rounds, which skews the data a<BR>bit.<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:15:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Robert Houghton wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Just as an aside...what do you (and other people) think of Legend of<BR>&gt; the Five Rings...neo-samurai role playing? and other 'neo-historical'<BR>&gt; background stuff (7 Seas is the only other one I can think of...apart<BR>&gt; from all the GURPS stuff)<BR><BR>I have not seen Five Rings, but I saw Seven Seas (or was it the other way<BR>round?&nbsp; I wasn't impressed enough to remember the name...)&nbsp; My immediate<BR>first response?&nbsp; Get someone who's taken more than one semester of<BR>Japanese to make up the names, please.&nbsp; There are plenty of people who can<BR>speak Japanese in gaming and anime fandom.&nbsp; Find one. <BR><BR>mada waratte iru Kiri yori<BR>(Kiri, who is still laughing, wrote this)<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:32:13 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: A late entry...<BR><BR>A late entry for both the "Books that Survived" and "IISS Required <BR>Reading List" threads.<BR><BR>Botchan&nbsp; &nbsp; by Natsume Soseki<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; gotchan<BR><BR>Saru mo ki kara ochiru.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:20:34 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>&gt; Ian Ferguson wrote :-<BR>&gt; &gt; This is an excellent starting point.&nbsp; Do you happen to have LD10,<BR>&gt; &gt; 50 and 90 for gunshot wounds (ie. rifle: 3D damage)?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is a function of missile velocity and structures traversed.<BR>&gt; Tod Glenn would have access to better wound ballistics data than I, I<BR>&gt; suspect.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In any case, abdominal wounds have about a 5% to 50% mortality<BR>&gt; (pistol-&gt;rifle), chest wounds 5-80% (pistol-&gt;rifle), head wounds better<BR>&gt; than 50% (any weapon, if the skull is breached).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; High velocity missiles are more likely to kill, but the majority of<BR>&gt; ballistic trauma is caused by handgun rounds, which skews the data a<BR>&gt; bit.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>There is some limited data wound survivability in SIPRI's "Anti-personnel<BR>weapons"&nbsp; Most of the data I have is military in nature and defines numbers<BR>by what is required to render a target _hors de combat_&nbsp; rather than actual<BR>kill rates.&nbsp; Number are also skewed (naturally) base on the available<BR>medical care.&nbsp; I can provide rates of incapacitation based on weapon type<BR>(very generic) and wounding location.<BR><BR>I should also be mentioned that casualty rated in the military enviroment is<BR>different than in civilian encounters due to many other factors--use of<BR>cover, training, camouflage, etc.<BR><BR>Your numbers on rifle fire casualty rate are right up there with my data. A<BR>very revealing study looked at the casualty rates of&nbsp; law enforcement<BR>officers in gun fights.&nbsp; Suprisingly, fish and game officers had the highest<BR>mortality rates resulting from shootouts.&nbsp; The big factor was that unlike<BR>most other LEOs, Fish and Game officers are typically shot with rifles.<BR>The original poster should let me know if you want detailed statistics and<BR>I'll see what I can put together.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3251<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, November 3 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3252<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>Re: Visit to NASM<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250<BR>Re: Visit to NASM<BR>Re: Re Culture?<BR>Re: New PICs availalbe - more later.<BR>Re: Traditions<BR>Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>RE: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR>DVDs and region codes (was: Re: recoverable tech) (fwd)<BR>Thanks for Imperiallines #2!<BR>Re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR>RE: Views<BR>Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>Re: Nobles for Loren (long)<BR>Copyrights<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:23:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Gordon Horne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; A late entry for both the "Books that Survived" and "IISS Required <BR>&gt; Reading List" threads.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Botchan&nbsp; &nbsp; by Natsume Soseki<BR><BR>I'd have to second that one, and add my own favorite Book of all time:<BR><BR>Makura no Soshi by Sei Shounagon (better known as "the Pillow Book", and<BR>no, it isn't a sex manual)<BR><BR>All Imperial nobles should read this-- especially women.<BR><BR>Kiri<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:33:53 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Visit to NASM<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Being a Traveller player, I had to stop by the National Air and Space Museum<BR>&gt; in Washington, DC today, after I took care of the business part of the day.<BR>&gt; I had not been to the NASM for several years, and had forgotten what it was<BR>&gt; like.<BR><BR>&lt;regretful snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Maybe spaceflight will someday become commonplace and routine, like in the<BR>&gt; Traveller universe, and people will not be as impressed when they visit<BR>&gt; museums of old aircraft and spacecraft, but that's a long way off.<BR><BR>No, they'll still be impressed, but in a different way.<BR><BR>"Gee, it's kinda small and cramped... How'd they fit the CG into it?"<BR><BR>"They didn't *have* CG."<BR><BR>"So how'd they get it down???"<BR><BR>"Aerobraking and then gliding."<BR><BR>"Gliding?"<BR><BR>"Yeah, they had to make deadstick landing, they couldn't cary the fuel<BR>for a powered landing."<BR><BR>"Geez... "<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:40:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Robert Houghton wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Just as an aside...what do you (and other people) think of Legend of<BR>&gt;&gt; the Five Rings...neo-samurai role playing? and other 'neo-historical'<BR>&gt;&gt; background stuff (7 Seas is the only other one I can think of...apart<BR>&gt;&gt; from all the GURPS stuff)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have not seen Five Rings, but I saw Seven Seas (or was it the other way<BR>&gt; round?&nbsp; I wasn't impressed enough to remember the name...)&nbsp; My immediate<BR>&gt; first response?&nbsp; Get someone who's taken more than one semester of<BR>&gt; Japanese to make up the names, please.&nbsp; There are plenty of people who can<BR>&gt; speak Japanese in gaming and anime fandom.&nbsp; Find one. <BR><BR>Heck, many writers can't be bothered to check and see if their "made<BR>up" words in "future English" already exist!<BR><BR>A recent one that made me cringe was a fan story that had them spotted<BR>a Star Trek shuttlecraft by the presence of "taconite" in the ion trail.<BR>Taconite is a mineral. An iron ore to be specific. :-(<BR><BR>And everbody knows about Battlestar Galactica and "microns". <BR><BR>So if folks can't get it right in their *own* language, expecting them<BR>to get it right in foreign languages is hopeless.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:56:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The name says it all 'Federation Against Copyright Theft' ...their job is <BR>&gt;&gt; to safeguard royalties.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with safeguarding royalties . <BR>&gt; . <BR>&gt; . <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Loren "a significant chunk of my income comes from royalties" Wiseman<BR><BR>True enough. But much of the audio/video/film industry wants to ignore<BR>the rights that copyright law gives users. Like making copies of<BR>originals that were properly purchased, so as to keep the original from<BR>wearing out. <BR><BR>And they want "pay per use" as well. Their attempt to do that with that<BR>DVD variant flopped. But they're going right ahead to try doing it with<BR>music...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:13:22 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Visit to NASM<BR><BR>At 4:33 PM -0800 11/2/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Maybe spaceflight will someday become commonplace and routine, like in the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Traveller universe, and people will not be as impressed when they visit<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; museums of old aircraft and spacecraft, but that's a long way off.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No, they'll still be impressed, but in a different way.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Gee, it's kinda small and cramped... How'd they fit the CG into it?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"They didn't *have* CG."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"So how'd they get it down???"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Aerobraking and then gliding."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Gliding?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Yeah, they had to make deadstick landing, they couldn't cary the fuel<BR>&gt;&nbsp; for a powered landing."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Geez... "<BR><BR>Sort of like comparing the Kitty Hawk to a modern airplane.&nbsp; That<BR>is one reason why I try and remind people that Traveller ships are<BR>a mature technology and when you design then you shouldn't think<BR>about the space shuttle but a cesna.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 21:46:46 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Re Culture?<BR><BR>In English...Space Giants<BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;GypsyComet@aol.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:40 AM<BR>Subject: Re Culture?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Kiri said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Well, yes, but what I meant was that he was from a culture which had<BR>&gt; mixed<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; the two up, so for instance, there were the stories he told about<BR>Thor's<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Hogs, Harley and Vincent.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; LOL! And surely there's the tales of Loki (who as a trickster has GOT<BR>to<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; ride a Ducati) and the Gods doomsday battles against the Rice Giants...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Please tell me they are not named Goldar and Silvar.&nbsp; (a no-prize to the<BR>&gt; &gt;person that gets this)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Now there's a show I haven't seen in a very long time.&nbsp; Couldn't tell you<BR>&gt; what it was called, as it had a local whacko in a space suit wrapped<BR>around<BR>&gt; it (as well as Hardware Wars, Captain Scarlet, and (I think) even Star<BR>&gt; Blazers). Wonderful stuff, though even then I though Captain Cosmic was<BR>&gt; goofy...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 22:35:49 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New PICs availalbe - more later.<BR><BR>Mike, that is awesome work!&nbsp; What musci did you use for the background and<BR>your home page.&nbsp; The background music from the demo movie is wonderful, and<BR>to me evokes what Vilani music should sound like.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 23:38:03 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traditions<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/1/00 1:58:17 PM !!!First Boot!!!, einreb62@yahoo.com <BR>writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;&nbsp; I feel<BR>&gt; adding some traditions would<BR>&gt; help the players out in the role-playing dept. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>How about a space equivalent of the "crossing the line" (where sailors who <BR>cross the equator for the first time have all sorts of amusing things done to <BR>them...). You could have crew members razzed for their first jump, or being <BR>awakened after their first tour as "frozen watch", etc...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 20:39:56 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR><BR>On this Friday (November 3rd) I'm giving a public lecture at Modesto<BR>Junior College (I'm not quite sure why) on astronomy and such (in particular,<BR>adaptive optics, the Keck telescope, Titan, and Io.)<BR><BR>I neglected to provide the organizer with a bio paragraph, so he went<BR>looking on the web. I don't have a real web page at LLNL (no time to make<BR>one), so what his web search turned up, and what he put into the flyer<BR>annoucing the talk, was:<BR><BR>&gt;Dr.&nbsp; Macintosh's current astronomy interests are extrasolar planets, brown<BR>&gt;dwarfs, and high-resolution imaging of solar system objects (Io and Titan in<BR>&gt;particular.)&nbsp; More relevantly to the perpetual arguments on gdw-beta, he<BR>&gt;also does quite a bit of work on astronomical instrumentation - infrared<BR>&gt;cameras, and now adaptive optics.<BR><BR>Sigh. (For those who weren't around, gdw-beta was the Traveller<BR>technology mailing/argument list...) Fortunately, no-one reading it is<BR>likely to have the slightest idea what it means, but it's a good cautionary<BR>reminder of how one's past persists on the web, forever...I'm not even sure<BR>what to say if someone asks me what a gdw-beta actually is. (I'm also not<BR>sure why the organizer couldn't distinguish between fantasy and reality, but<BR>that's a seperate issue.)<BR><BR>Bruce<BR>P.S. If anyone in the Modesto CA area wants to hear a lecture on Keck<BR>Adaptive Optics studies of Titan's surface, it's at<BR>Friday, Nov.&nbsp; 3, 7:30 pm at the Modesto Junior College<BR>East Campus, Forum 110.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 23:41:33 EST<BR>From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/29/00 8:44:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Of course Christianity was subverted by<BR>someone (Constantine) looking for a hook to unite a failing Empire, and I<BR>don't even wanna think of what could happen if someone tried that with<BR>Rocky... &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Ummmm....<BR>that is one heck of an assumption. There is much evidence that Constantine <BR>was exposed to the faith both during repressions as a trainee officer and via <BR>his father and mother [in fact his father was well known to lose orders to <BR>purge christians]. It seems that the symbol dream story was recorded close to <BR>the actual battle [as opposed to the sky vision story], and he did appear to <BR>believe and support his mother's research into the holy sites and search for <BR>the cross. He also was careful to be baptised before death but after any sins.<BR>This all appears to add up to a true believer.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 23:57:36 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/2/00 7:12:54 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>travellerne@3rd-imperium.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Such rounds exist for 10mm snub pistols, so why not 18mm<BR>shotguns? &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>maybe muzzle velocity differences? (I'm just speculating, as I'm neither an <BR>ammunition designer or a Physicist...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:26:10 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR><BR>Dammit!&nbsp; With a little more notice I would've made sure I could get down<BR>there.&nbsp; As it is, I'm not sure.&nbsp; I'll have to play it by ear tomorrow.<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Macintosh<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 8:40 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On this Friday (November 3rd) I'm giving a public lecture at Modesto<BR>&gt; Junior College (I'm not quite sure why) on astronomy and such (in<BR>&gt; particular,<BR>&gt; adaptive optics, the Keck telescope, Titan, and Io.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I neglected to provide the organizer with a bio paragraph, so he went<BR>&gt; looking on the web. I don't have a real web page at LLNL (no time to make<BR>&gt; one), so what his web search turned up, and what he put into the flyer<BR>&gt; annoucing the talk, was:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Dr.&nbsp; Macintosh's current astronomy interests are extrasolar<BR>&gt; planets, brown<BR>&gt; &gt;dwarfs, and high-resolution imaging of solar system objects (Io<BR>&gt; and Titan in<BR>&gt; &gt;particular.)&nbsp; More relevantly to the perpetual arguments on gdw-beta, he<BR>&gt; &gt;also does quite a bit of work on astronomical instrumentation - infrared<BR>&gt; &gt;cameras, and now adaptive optics.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sigh. (For those who weren't around, gdw-beta was the Traveller<BR>&gt; technology mailing/argument list...) Fortunately, no-one reading it is<BR>&gt; likely to have the slightest idea what it means, but it's a good<BR>&gt; cautionary<BR>&gt; reminder of how one's past persists on the web, forever...I'm not<BR>&gt; even sure<BR>&gt; what to say if someone asks me what a gdw-beta actually is. (I'm also not<BR>&gt; sure why the organizer couldn't distinguish between fantasy and<BR>&gt; reality, but<BR>&gt; that's a seperate issue.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Bruce<BR>&gt; P.S. If anyone in the Modesto CA area wants to hear a lecture on Keck<BR>&gt; Adaptive Optics studies of Titan's surface, it's at<BR>&gt; Friday, Nov.&nbsp; 3, 7:30 pm at the Modesto Junior College<BR>&gt; East Campus, Forum 110.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:01:11 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: DVDs and region codes (was: Re: recoverable tech) (fwd)<BR><BR>On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Then get your authorized dealer to do it for you. That's what we do over<BR>&gt; &gt; here.<BR>&gt; &gt; In fact most DVD players are sold new over here with region encoding<BR>&gt; Actually, under the DCMA here in the US, doing that is _illegal_. It is<BR>&gt; 'circumventing copyright protection devices' like DeCSS.<BR>&gt; Welcome to the Brave New World. :-(<BR><BR>This is even more strange, because according to www.opendvd.org (I know, I<BR>should check where they get the information) region codes are actually<BR>_illegal_ in some countries. An example of this is New Zealand, I believe.<BR><BR>Opendvd.org mentions Berne convention and some WTO treaties as the source<BR>of region codes being illegal. I read the Berne convention and yes, it<BR>could be interpreted as such, but I have not found the relevant WTO<BR>treaties.<BR><BR>I am planning to beginning a campaign in Finland to outlaw region codes,<BR>if I had time from my studies. B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:06:23 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Thanks for Imperiallines #2!<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Just wanted to publicly thank David Smart for sending me a copy of Imperiallines<BR>#2.<BR><BR>He also included the last few things that GDW sent its readers: a discharge<BR>certificate from the 4518th Huscarles and three patches: a Regina<BR>shoulder-flash, a 4518th patch and an Imperial Sunburst!!!<BR><BR>Wow. I've always wanted those patches, and was absolutely stunned when I opened<BR>the envelope. Thank you for your generosity!! &lt;stands and salutes!&gt;<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 01:12:16 -0500<BR>From: Bill Rutherford &lt;worj@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR><BR>At 08:39 PM 11/02/2000 -0800, Bruce wrote:<BR>&gt;&lt;SNIP&gt;More relevantly to the perpetual arguments on gdw-beta, &lt;SNIP&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Well, you could proselytize on the wonders of Traveller in all its <BR>incarnations!<BR><BR>Bill Rutherford<BR>worj@home.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:11:13 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Jesse Degraff wrote:<BR>[On www pages not working for anything else than IE5]<BR>&gt; That's why I have *both* Internet Exploder and Netscrape installed on my<BR>&gt; systems (that, and checking for compatibility when I'm creating web pages ;)<BR><BR>This is good if you use only systems that can run both. <BR><BR>As I do not like Windows, and our university has many Unix computers<BR>(HP-UX, former Digital Unix, Linux) I do not usually have the opportynity<BR>to use IE5. This is kinda annoying, as I do not usually use Java(script)<BR>either (for its security and other bugs), so there are many pages I just<BR>can't view.<BR><BR>The other problem is that many pages use some plug-ins, for example Flash.<BR>HP-UX or Digital Unix do not have a flash player, so these pages are out<BR>of the question for me. <BR><BR>On the other hand, the problem is not mine : I just don't read these<BR>pages, there's nothing I couldn't get from some other source. The owners<BR>of these pages just lose my interest. Their loss, apparently...<BR><BR>ObTrav : Are there recording formats and such for every planet?<BR>If everything has to be translated when shipped from a system to another,<BR>this could be expensive.<BR>("Hey, these idiots from Core still use Word 74500.2, don't they see the<BR>problems with that?")<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:26:57 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;...I understand<BR>&gt;&gt; that there are subclasses of SF, one of which is called something like "hard<BR>&gt;&gt; science fiction," in which the author thinks of a clever application of<BR>&gt;&gt; advanced or speculative technology and basically uses his story to show this<BR>&gt;&gt; technology in operation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Not quite. And please note that science and technology are *not* the<BR>&gt;same thing, even though they are related. Both are found in SF.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The sort of story you refer to hasn't been a mainstay of SF since about<BR>&gt;1930. It was about then that writers like Heinlein and campbell started<BR>&gt;using the tech as the *setting*, but telling the story about the *people*.<BR><BR>On the other hand, there are stories that do both. For instance, one of the<BR>strengths of Bob Shaw's writing is where he takes a specific technology such as<BR>grav belts ("A Little Night Flying" and _Vertigo_), "slow glass" (_Other Days,<BR>Other Eyes_), or even psi-based blindness cures (_Night Walk_) and puts his<BR>characters into the resultant environment. We see the results of the technology,<BR>both good and bad, through their eyes - thus we have a blend of tech and<BR>characterisation. Plus good stoylines, to boot. ;-)<BR><BR>Did I mention that Bob Shaw's *Sarafand* (_Ship of Strangers_) has been written<BR>up as a Traveller starship? With deckplans and everything? I think the magazine<BR>in question even contained a MM adventure... (now where did I stash it??)<BR><BR>Larry Niven did much the same thing for "transfer booths" in some "Known Space"<BR>short stories - take one new technology, apply it to our world, and extrapolate<BR>what happens... one way of discovering if there were any Unintended Consequences<BR>from allowing this tech to be developed.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:28:19 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren (long)<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>(Saved this as draft, then forgot to post it...)<BR><BR>Hans wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 004-1106<BR>&gt;&gt;Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Santanocheev<BR>&gt;&gt;Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; C-in-C, Navy Rear Admiral, Lord<BR>&gt;&gt;Sex: Male<BR>&gt;&gt;Title: Lord (what does this equate to?)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;6&nbsp; &nbsp; Santanocheev&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill +1 (referred to as a Rear<BR>Admiral)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, he was a rear admiral two years before the FFW when he merely ran Naval<BR>&gt;Intelligence/Regina subsector, but at the time of FFW he had been promoted to<BR>&gt;sector admiral (over the heads of scores if not hundreds of other admirals).<BR><BR>See above - in 1106 he was C-in-C (Sector Admiral, presumably) but called "Rear<BR>Admiral".<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;1&nbsp; &nbsp; Liang&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill -1<BR>&gt;&gt;2&nbsp; &nbsp; Shumii&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 1, Skill 1<BR>&gt;&gt;3&nbsp; &nbsp; Shanashar&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill 0<BR>&gt;&gt;4&nbsp; &nbsp; Mtume&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 0, Skill +2<BR>&gt;&gt;5&nbsp; &nbsp; Goolanzoon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 0, Skill +3<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Exactly. My surmise is that Liang, Shumii, et alii are sector admirals from<BR>&gt;Deneb and Corridor, which is why they outrank Santanocheev.<BR><BR>Shumii, Mtume, and Goolanzoon are exactly the sort of people you _want_ in<BR>charge of anti-Vargr ops in a critical border spot such as Corridor. As for<BR>Liang, I assume he's of the "old, about to retire" typecast. Shanashar may be<BR>similar or simply a staff admiral, not used to combat situations.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;7&nbsp; &nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0&nbsp; (referred to as a Vice<BR>Admiral)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That's the real discrepancy because... [snip] ...there must be dozens of<BR>&gt;higher ranking admirals in the Marches alone...<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt;My preferred explanation is that the FFW is a boardgame and<BR>&gt;represents a selection of the forces involved rather than a full<BR>&gt;roster in order to make a good _game_.<BR>&gt;So FFW is not an accurate source of information. YMMV.<BR><BR>Hans outlines a possible meta-game reason for the anomalies.<BR><BR>&gt;Note that according to the character generation rules there are no such<BR>critters<BR>&gt;as rear and vice admirals.<BR><BR>As per my query in another post.<BR><BR>My take on it is also a meta-game reason: when the 5FW game was designed (1981),<BR>Marc and Loren really didn't have an idea as to how big they were going to make<BR>the Imperium. All that stuff came later - witness _Atlas of the Imperium_, a<BR>later product. _High Guard_ had only just been produced (1979) and had just been<BR>revised (1981). At this stage, no-one had put together:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (1) the effect of the chargen system (from _High Guard_);<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (2) the wealth inherent in a large Imperium (the _Trillion Credit Squadron_<BR>effect);<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (3) the population of a large Imperium (_Atlas_); and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (4) computerised number-crunching.<BR><BR>This has lead to all sorts of "anomalies", starting with the question of "how<BR>many nobles are in the Imperium, really?", proceeding through "how big is the<BR>Imperial fleet?" and ending in such trivialities as "why is Elphinstone listed<BR>as a major 5FW admiral?".<BR><BR>The _Spinward Marches Campaign_ book has all the fleets shown in the 5FW boxed<BR>game, except that they are deployed across the whole of the Marches rather than<BR>the small map slice in the boxed set. I'm betting that, in the original design<BR>of the game, these _were_ designed as the only fleets in the Marches. I'm<BR>betting that it was only later - when numbers were crunched properly - people<BR>realised their original scope had been somewhat limited. I'm betting that Marc<BR>never expected to have the *entire Imperium* detailed down to a system level<BR>("who would ever want to use _that_?"), with the numbers available to anyone<BR>with a PC and spreadsheet program. I'm betting that GDW thought its original<BR>design was at least in the right ball-park, rather than being off by a factor of<BR>10 (or more, Hans?).<BR><BR>I'll be surprised if I'm wrong, but now you know the way I'm betting. ;-)<BR><BR>To "fix" these "anomalies" either requires the sort of ingenious handwaves that<BR>the TML has discussed for years, or a complete revision - sort of like how<BR>Starfleet suddenly has hundreds of ships fighting the Dominion when originally<BR>(canonically? ;-) ;-) they only had a small fleet (witness the number of ships -<BR>20? 30? - they were able to muster against the biggest threat they had ever had,<BR>the Borg cube at Wolf 359).<BR><BR>For example, the "nobility" handwaves range from "there must be a lot of local<BR>nobility not accounted for", to "the nobles from chargen are not _real_ Imperial<BR>nobles", to the "extend Soc to account for the _real_ Imperial nobility, which<BR>puts Strephon up at K (or whatever)".<BR><BR>The only other thing to do is simply ignore the problems until the PC's start<BR>being concerned about them, then just say "that's just the way it is, some<BR>things will never change", etc and leave it there. ;-)<BR><BR>But I'm still interested in Marc and Loren's viewpoints. :-)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:17:25 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Copyrights<BR><BR>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; The name says it all 'Federation Against Copyright Theft' ...their job is to<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; safeguard royalties.<BR>&gt; Not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with safeguarding royalties . . <BR>&gt; . <BR><BR>No, there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with this.<BR><BR>But I can buy a book from the US and read it at home. The publisher and<BR>author still get their royalties, but the Finnish importer and book store<BR>don't. <BR><BR>The biggest problem with regulations (IMO, YMMV, of course) is that I<BR>can't buy some things, or it is made very difficult. As an example which<BR>has been mentioned on the list, DVDs in different regions are different,<BR>and some are not published in every region, so if players are not<BR>modified, everybody couldn't buy these.<BR><BR>And, yes, Loren, I have bought your stuff. B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 22:24:09 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; Such rounds exist for 10mm snub pistols, so why not 18mm<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shotguns? &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; maybe muzzle velocity differences? (I'm just speculating, as I'm neither an<BR>&gt; ammunition designer or a Physicist...<BR><BR>The ammunition can be designed with different muzzle velocities.&nbsp; That's<BR>an advantage of pump shotguns--the automatics need a fairly consistent<BR>recoil to reliably work the reloading mechanism. Pump actions don't care<BR>about the recoil, the user actuates the reloading mechanism.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:55:23 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: recoverable tech (was Re: Books that survived...)<BR><BR>Trevor, Peter wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; THe name says it all 'Federation Against Copyright Theft'<BR>&gt; &gt; ...their job is to safeguard royalties.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As long as you buy a&nbsp; legitimate&nbsp; copy&nbsp; it&nbsp; shouldn't&nbsp; ultimately<BR>&gt; matter if you buy it from the US or the UK.&nbsp; (I accept there is a<BR>&gt; case for the latest films which are released on disc before their<BR>&gt; theatrical showing.)&nbsp; Unless of course&nbsp; we&nbsp; are&nbsp; ripped-off&nbsp; (ie.<BR>&gt; paying more than our US cousins) but that never happens does it!<BR><BR>The problem is that for all things we have regularly being ripped off by<BR>"legal" monopolies know as "distributors", who get exclusive rights to sell<BR>product in a certain area.<BR><BR>This has _never_ been good for the consumer, for the retailler or, in most<BR>cases for the producer, as it prevents competition in the distribution<BR>chain.<BR><BR>In New Zealand it was largely responsble for the failure of the RPG and<BR>gaming industry, as a single distributor, Blackwood &amp; Gayle made obscene<BR>profits on the import of gaming and related merchandise but basically drove<BR>the store-front operations out of business, as very few people were stupid<BR>enough to pay such prices, even before the advent of easy internet ordering.<BR><BR>Until recently, such distribution deals were protected by law in New<BR>Zealand, and anyone else trying to import something could be prevented from<BR>doing so by the police, their stock seized and handed over to the "legal"<BR>distributor. Now, these anti-competitive laws have been removed, and anyone<BR>can import anything (that is not itself illegal).<BR><BR>Strangely, the distributors who previous to the law change claimed that they<BR>could not sell any cheaper, and that they weren't ripping us off, cut their<BR>prices almost immediately after the law change, to compete with the other<BR>importers.<BR><BR>The big problem is that many distribution channels still seem to think they<BR>should be able to protect their regional markets, which is the whole reason<BR>for the Region enccoding in the first place. One day they will hopefully<BR>realize that they are just encouraging piracy, as people in general are<BR>pissed off at these sorts of shennagans, and don't think it right&nbsp; that they<BR>should be forced to buy all their DVD's again just because they've moved<BR>from one country to another and have bought a new player.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; Using direct digital connection are not yet&nbsp; a&nbsp; concern<BR>&gt; as DVD recorders haven't really hit the domestic market yet ... I<BR>&gt; don't know anything about the digital VCR.<BR><BR>You can write a whole DVD to a CD-R using MP4, so recordable DVD's are<BR>unneccesaary.<BR>From what I can tell there is a huge trade in copied digital movies going<BR>on.<BR>Many of them are available via Napster-like networks.<BR><BR>It will be the increase in DSL and cable usage that will worry the DVD<BR>maker's not recordable DVD's. That and cheap hard drive storage.<BR><BR>As you mentioned, Macrovision only prevents analogue copying, and who would<BR>be silly enough to make an analogue copy of a digital source anyway ?<BR><BR>I really don't see the point of putting Macrovision on DVD's.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3252<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 01:55:01 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 01:53:22 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA24355;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 01:51:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 3 Nov 2000 01:50:39 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA24087<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 01:50:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 01:50:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011030650.BAA24087@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3252<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, November 3 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3253<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Visit to NASM<BR>RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250<BR>Re: GT Humaniti<BR>Re: What would Solsec suppress<BR>Re : recoverable tech<BR>Re: recoverable tech<BR>RE: GT Humaniti<BR>Re: Thanks for Imperiallines #2!<BR>Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>[OT] Thinking Outside&nbsp; Of&nbsp; The Box.<BR>Re: Ivanova<BR>RE: running down pedestrians<BR>Re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR>Re: Ivanova<BR>Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR>RE: Views<BR>RE: Ivanova<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:02:46 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>Robert Houghton wrote :<BR>&gt; Just as an aside...what do you (and other people) think of Legend<BR>&gt; of the Five Rings...neo-samurai role playing? and other 'neo-historical'<BR>&gt; background stuff (7 Seas is the only other one I can think of...apart<BR>&gt; from all the&nbsp; GURPS stuff)<BR><BR>Shouldn't that be "pseudo"-historical ?<BR><BR>Personally I prefer the Chivalry &amp; Sorcery "Land of the Rising Sun"<BR>supplement by Lee Gold.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 02:21:22 -0500<BR>From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Visit to NASM<BR><BR>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>Hash: SHA1<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:36:57 -0800<BR>&gt;From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Visit to NASM<BR><BR>&lt;very cool and very important observations reluctantly snipped&gt;<BR><BR>I would like to expand on this gentleman's comments regarding the NASM.&nbsp; If <BR>you ever find yourself in the DC area, you owe it to yourself to go see <BR>this place.&nbsp; I am not exaggerating when I say that to walk through the <BR>halls and to see what is there is very moving; it got me a bit choked <BR>up.&nbsp; Anytime I'm in DC I make it a point to go there.<BR><BR>For those of you in the New York area, another thing that you really, <BR>really must go see is the new Hayden Planetarium.&nbsp; I don't know what they <BR>did as far as electronics go, but... they tore down the old university <BR>building-style dome, replacing it with the Hayden Sphere.&nbsp; Part of the <BR>lower half is a walk-through movie of the creation of the universe, <BR>narrated by Jodie Foster (of Contact; I used to be irritated by her and <BR>that movie, but I've developed a bit of a soft spot for it.)&nbsp; You walk out <BR>and along a spiral path that really, really, really puts everything into <BR>rather sharp perspective as to our place in the history of the universe.<BR><BR>It is the top half that will completely floor you.&nbsp; They have taken the old <BR>twin-sphere projector and replaced it with something completely <BR>different.&nbsp; It's about as far from the old projectors as... well, as <BR>thruster plates are from chemical rockets.&nbsp; They can not only project the <BR>night sky from any place on Earth, they can project the night sky from any <BR>place in the universe.&nbsp; And they do.&nbsp; And it is stunning.&nbsp; I'm afraid that <BR>there really is no way to explain it better than terms which would be <BR>labeled as hyperbole.&nbsp; Just trust me that if you are ever in Manhattan it's <BR>very important to -make- the time to see this.&nbsp; For those of you who are <BR>not in NYC and are not planning on coming here, I cannot imagine that this <BR>is the only such projector (Mark X, I think it's called?) in the world.&nbsp; If <BR>you find a planetarium using this equipment, see what shows they have there.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Oh, come on, we're all Travellers here, we gleefully devour <BR>anything to do with real space exploration and science. =)<BR>- - ---<BR>==============================================================<BR>Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com<BR>System Administrator&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK<BR>IMTU tc+ tn t4 ge++ -3i+ c+(**) jt pi+ va+ dr+ pr+ zh+() so@<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Current PGPKey Fingerprint (18 July 2000)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; E20D 4E41 533E AAD0 60B8&nbsp; 66DD 2908 F6E4 923F C225<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "As above, so below; as below, so above."<BR><BR>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use &lt;http://www.pgp.com&gt;<BR><BR>iQA/AwUBOgJncikI9uSSP8IlEQIuMwCg6NsM4nzDJ2ONTbfxwgXPig0gaaoAn0H/<BR>bXYBhXW614OylMSnTRMCYX39<BR>=mtP+<BR>- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:14:58 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; The name says it all 'Federation Against Copyright Theft' <BR>&gt; ...their job is to<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; safeguard royalties.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with <BR>&gt; safeguarding royalties . . <BR>&gt; . <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>&lt;Grin&gt; Absolutally not! The hard-working folks in all branches of publishing<BR>need their pennies. The point is though, that FACT are an industry body whse<BR>remit is to prevent breaches of copyright and protect the profits of<BR>publishers. Macrovision is touted as a quality-assurance device which<BR>prevents inferior merchandise being passed off as the real deal. It isn't.<BR>Macrovision is designed to prevent the copying of degital media, whether to<BR>other digital media or to VHS (I think Frank mentioned something about<BR>this). <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:41:53 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>&gt; From: Loren Wiseman <BR>&gt; Iltharan: aka K'tring, Night of Conquest.<BR><BR>What a terrible shame we couldn't get Bill Keith to do this...<BR><BR>&gt; Irhadre: GDW Darrians module.<BR><BR>??? My memory has failed me on this one.&nbsp; Who are they?&nbsp; Anyone got the<BR>module handy?&nbsp; Mine is hidden in the Pit of Despair.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:51:43 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What would Solsec suppress<BR><BR>From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>&gt; that is one heck of an assumption. There is much evidence that<BR>&gt; Constantine was exposed to the faith both during repressions as a trainee<BR>&gt; officer and via his father and mother [in fact his father was well known<BR>&gt; to lose orders to purge christians]. It seems that the symbol dream story<BR>&gt; was recorded close to the actual battle [as opposed to the sky vision<BR>&gt; story], and he did appear to believe and support his mother's research<BR>&gt; into the holy sites and search for the cross. He also was careful to be<BR>&gt; baptised before death but after any sins.&nbsp; This all appears to add up to<BR>&gt; a true believer.<BR><BR>The symbols were also more or less compatible with the various sun cults<BR>that were also very widespread in the army.&nbsp; There seems to have been<BR>a bit of a movement towards monotheistic religions in the Roman Empire at<BR>the time.&nbsp; The only real problem was which monotheism was going to be<BR>adopted.<BR><BR>The other major contender was some synthesis of the sun cults, probably<BR>built around the cult of Sol Invictus (the Unconquered Sun).&nbsp; Not<BR>coincidentally, I make fairly heavy use of the Church of the Stellar<BR>Divinity in MTU.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:44:39 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR>&gt; Grandma's aircar will have the same features, the same controls and the<BR>same<BR>&gt; engine as yours does. All the features that consumers wanted were added<BR>&gt; about eight hundred years ago. The thought that it could be improved would<BR>&gt; be so far outside the box that no one would even consider it.<BR><BR>Weeeeee arent so suuuure sure surieeee suuuurrrreee&nbsp; abooouttt<BR>that-tie-that-that.<BR><BR>An an an maaaaarketing keeeps telling-welling us to keeep doing-woing<BR>whatever it iiiiis.<BR><BR>Your loving cousin.<BR><BR>Ditzie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:48:38 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: recoverable tech<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: recoverable tech<BR>&gt; Ditto for granny's aircar ... which could have started out&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; young persons aircar, some sort of&nbsp; turbo-charged&nbsp; racing&nbsp; hotrod<BR>&gt; (now being driven by little old granny before she hands it on&nbsp; in<BR>&gt; her Will).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR><BR>Attn : Marketing<BR><BR>I believe we should investigate the funding of several 'Grannies for Mad<BR>Grav Bikes' groups, to provide a counterweight against 'Mothers Against Grav<BR>Bike Madness'.<BR><BR>Bolchak halt-Mobani<BR>Strategic Opportunities Team<BR>High Energy Solutions Division<BR>Famile Spofulam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:54:09 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Alan Bradley [mailto:alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au]<BR>&gt; Sent: 03 November 2000 10:42<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; From: Loren Wiseman <BR>&gt; &gt; Iltharan: aka K'tring, Night of Conquest.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What a terrible shame we couldn't get Bill Keith to do this...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Irhadre: GDW Darrians module.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ??? My memory has failed me on this one.&nbsp; Who are they?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Anyone got the<BR>&gt; module handy?&nbsp; Mine is hidden in the Pit of Despair.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>The guys with slaves, Chanad/Lishun. <BR><BR>'They're not slaves! They're jak'ut! It's cultural!'<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 07:18:48 -0600<BR>From: D Smart &lt;dsmart@imagin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Thanks for Imperiallines #2!<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just wanted to publicly thank David Smart for sending me a copy of Imperiallines<BR>&gt; #2.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; He also included the last few things that GDW sent its readers: a discharge<BR>&gt; certificate from the 4518th Huscarles and three patches: a Regina<BR>&gt; shoulder-flash, a 4518th patch and an Imperial Sunburst!!!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Wow. I've always wanted those patches, and was absolutely stunned when I opened<BR>&gt; the envelope. Thank you for your generosity!! &lt;stands and salutes!&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;blush&gt; Glad you like them!<BR><BR>After all the material I've borrowed shamelessly from your<BR>website<BR>for my campaign, I still feel I'm ahead.<BR><BR>BTW, do you have a copy of the writeup on the 4518th from<BR>the TAS <BR>Journal?<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 01:57:03 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote :-<BR>&gt; For that matter, that 3.8 psi partial pressure of oxygen could be a<BR>&gt; problem too. What exactly *is* the level at which a "significant"<BR>&gt; portion of the population starts to suffer from oxygen toxicity?<BR><BR>It's only 0.225 ATA oxygen. No problem.<BR><BR>Normobaric oxygen toxicity will occur after about 8-12 hours of 100%<BR>oxygen breathing (1.0 ATA) in all healthy volunteers - chest pain,<BR>decreased lung capacity due to absorption atelectasis (nitrogen is<BR>required to splint alveoli open).<BR><BR>Some people with advanced emphysema rely on hypoxic drive to keep<BR>breathing - their arterial oxygen tension runs around 50-60mmHg (~0.066<BR>ATA). Anything more than 0.28 ATA oxygen is risky except when they're<BR>extremely hypoxic - but in that situation (non-invasive)* ventilation is<BR>mandatory, as they won't be able to recover from respiratory failure<BR>unaided by then.<BR><BR>Hyperbaric oxygen toxicity (Paul Bert effects) doesn't seem to be an<BR>issue until you hit the 3 ATA mark, where they are rare ('pins and<BR>needles' around the mouth and in the hands, headache). The dose-response<BR>curve is steep beyond this, with delirium and eventual fitting being<BR>certain beyond 5 ATA.<BR><BR>&gt; Heck, it occurs to me that we could use a table of max/min safe partial<BR>&gt; pressures for various common atmospheric gases. Max for all gases,<BR>&gt; including oxygen, and min for oxygen.<BR><BR>I did that for oxygen in some posts on this very topic in August last<BR>year. There is also data for carbon dioxide, monoxide, particulates,<BR>ozone... a whole slew of stuff. Check out the list archives.<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>* - survival is more likely (less chance of ventilator associated<BR>pneumonia).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 06:50:51 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>on 11/2/00 10:24 PM, Kristian Miller at travellerne@3rd-imperium.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt; Such rounds exist for 10mm snub pistols, so why not 18mm<BR>&gt;&gt; shotguns? &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; maybe muzzle velocity differences? (I'm just speculating, as I'm neither an<BR>&gt;&gt; ammunition designer or a Physicist...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The ammunition can be designed with different muzzle velocities.&nbsp; That's<BR>&gt; an advantage of pump shotguns--the automatics need a fairly consistent<BR>&gt; recoil to reliably work the reloading mechanism. Pump actions don't care<BR>&gt; about the recoil, the user actuates the reloading mechanism.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kristian<BR>&gt; <BR>That is dependant on the automatic action.&nbsp; Semi-auto shotguns have become<BR>quite sophisticated these days and can handle a wide range of loads from<BR>magnum buckshot to light trap loads.<BR><BR>And velocity is only a small issue with heap rounds, so long as it isn't<BR>excessive, provided there is sufficient stand-off.&nbsp; The rotation imparted by<BR>rifling causes more problems as it tends to disperse the jet.<BR><BR>Both of these effect will probably be negligible in rounds so small, IMHO.<BR>Indeed, the effectiveness of these round vs. conventional AP rounds is<BR>questionable.&nbsp; This is probably the reason development of small caliber HEAP<BR>rounds hasn't lead to any production ammo.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>Tod<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 06:57:40 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [OT] Thinking Outside&nbsp; Of&nbsp; The Box.<BR><BR>I thought I'd share this with the list.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- ---------------------------------------<BR><BR>This legend, the truth of which is not necessarily related to its<BR>value, concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University<BR>of Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper<BR>with a barometer."<BR><BR>One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the neck of<BR>the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the<BR>skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of<BR>the barometer will equal the height of the building."<BR><BR>This highly original answer so incensed the examiner that the student<BR>was failed immediately.<BR><BR>He appealed on the grounds that his answer was indisputably correct,<BR>and the university appointed an independent arbiter to decide the<BR>case.&nbsp; The arbiter judged that the answer was indeed correct, but did<BR>not display any noticeable knowledge of physics.<BR><BR>To resolve the problem it was decided to call the student in and allow<BR>him six minutes in which to provide a verbal answer which showed at<BR>least a minimal familiarity with the basic principles of physics.<BR><BR>For five minutes the student sat in silence, forehead creased in<BR>thought.&nbsp; The arbiter reminded him that time was running out, to which<BR>the student replied that he had several extremely relevant answers,<BR>but couldn't make up his mind which to use.<BR><BR>On being advised to hurry up the student replied as follows:<BR>"Firstly, you could take the barometer up to the roof of the<BR>skyscraper, drop it over the edge, and measure the time it takes to<BR>reach the ground. The height of the building can then be worked out<BR>from the formula H = 0.5g x t squared. But bad luck on the barometer.<BR><BR>"Or if the sun is shining you could measure the height of the<BR>barometer, then set it on end and measure the length of its shadow.<BR>Then you measure the length of the skyscraper's shadow, and thereafter<BR>it is simple matter of proportional arithmetic to work out the height<BR>of the skyscraper.<BR><BR>"But if you wanted to be highly scientific about it, you could tie a<BR>short piece of string to the barometer and swing it like a pendulum,<BR>first at ground level and then on the roof of the skyscraper.&nbsp; The<BR>height is worked out by the difference in the gravitational restoring<BR>force T = 2 pi sq root(l / g).<BR><BR>"Or if the skyscraper has an outside emergency staircase, it would be<BR>easier to walk up it and mark off the height of the skyscraper in<BR>barometer lengths, then add them up.<BR><BR>"If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of course,<BR>you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the roof of<BR>the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in<BR>millibars into feet to give the height of the building.<BR><BR>"But since we are constantly being exhorted to exercise independence<BR>of mind and apply scientific methods, undoubtedly the best way would<BR>be to knock on the janitor's door and say to him 'If you would like a<BR>nice new barometer, I will give you this one if you tell me the height<BR>of this skyscraper'."<BR><BR>The student was Niels Bohr, the only Dane to win the Nobel prize for<BR>Physics.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:27:52 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Ivanova<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry sayeth:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Susan Ivanova (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; At 11:43 PM 10/23/2000 EDT, Loren wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; That was the "Through-the-Looking-Glass Universe" episode where Spock was a <BR><BR>&gt; pirate and Invanova was . . . no . . . wait, I'm confused . . .<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; She has that effect on people.&nbsp; Susan Ivanova is one of my all-time<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; favorite characters, and her lines were pure Traveller character:<BR><BR>You might find the last paragraph of this interview entertaining:<BR><BR>http://www.scifi.com/scifi.con/games/rpgnet/interviews/wiseman.html<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 10:31:28 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>Robert O'Conno wrote:<BR>&gt;That's actually pretty close.<BR>&gt;50% mortality is at 40km/h for pedestrian vs. car, from the trauma<BR>&gt;literature.<BR>&gt;The graph is probably sigmoid (a 'dose-response' curve).<BR>&gt;I'd punt for an LD10 (10% kill) of 20km/h, and an LD90 (90% kill) of<BR>&gt;80km/h. This obviously assumes contemporary trauma management.<BR><BR>and later<BR><BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;In any case, abdominal wounds have about a 5% to 50% mortality<BR>&gt;(pistol-&gt;rifle), chest wounds 5-80% (pistol-&gt;rifle), head wounds better<BR>&gt;than 50% (any weapon, if the skull is breached).<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It sounds as if being hit by a vehicle going at 40 kph is about<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; equivalent to being shot for 3D damage.&nbsp; There is a substantial<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; chance of death at 20 kph, perhaps similar to a sword at 2D<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; damage.&nbsp; At 10 kph it is like a good punch: 1D damage.&nbsp; If I<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; add 1D per 20 kph over 40 kph, there would be 5D damage for<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 80 kph.&nbsp; That would be similar to damage from a laser rifle,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for which 90% mortality might be reasonable.&nbsp; Using this<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; system would make being hit by a speeder at 300 kph<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; equivalent to being shot with a FGMP-15.<BR><BR>then Tod Glenn writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;The original poster should let me know if you want detailed statistics and<BR>&gt;I'll see what I can put together.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thank you very much, but I don't need much detail.&nbsp; The information<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; provided is enough for me to settle on the system above.&nbsp; Any<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; comments are welcome!<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 07:31:40<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR><BR>At 08:39 PM 11/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'm not even sure what to say if someone asks me what a gdw-beta actually <BR>&gt;is.<BR><BR>Laugh derisively, shake your head, and say "Right, after what Wen-ho Lee<BR>went through, like I'm going to say *anything* about gdw-beta."<BR><BR>Or, get really nervous, and insist that there really isn't a gdw-beta. Make<BR>the other person agree with you several times.&nbsp; Then mutter "that was too<BR>close.."<BR><BR>Final option:&nbsp; Get a big smile and vacant look, and start telling your<BR>victim that gdw-beta saved you from eternal torment, and if he would like<BR>some more information you have some brochures in the car, and maybe he'd<BR>like to sit down with you for a few hours to discuss the subject...<BR>- --<BR><BR>Duugirashir Irebamenagiin&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 10:46:00 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ivanova<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry sayeth:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Subject: Susan Ivanova (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; At 11:43 PM 10/23/2000 EDT, Loren wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; That was the "Through-the-Looking-Glass Universe" episode where Spock was a<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; pirate and Invanova was . . . no . . . wait, I'm confused . . .<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; She has that effect on people.&nbsp; Susan Ivanova is one of my all-time<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; favorite characters, and her lines were pure Traveller character:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You might find the last paragraph of this interview entertaining:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.scifi.com/scifi.con/games/rpgnet/interviews/wiseman.html<BR><BR>On that note, are any other TMLers planning to go to Exoticon 3.1415 in<BR>New Orleans this year?&nbsp; Claudia Christian is one of the guests this<BR>year.<BR><BR>The dates are 17-19 November 2000.<BR><BR>http://www.exoticon.net/<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:53:28 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Eugenics and the Solomani<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've always wondered about this.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; After all, the Vilani are the<BR>&gt; non-curious.&nbsp; Why would technological advancement pace faster in the 3I.<BR>A<BR>&gt; culture of conservatism and a rigid aristocratic hierarchy doesn't seem<BR>like<BR>&gt; it would be conducive to technological advance compared to a society that<BR>&gt; almost revels in change, and where social status is determined by drive<BR>and<BR>&gt; ability.&nbsp; It always seemed to me that it was more probable that the<BR>&gt; technologically equivalent or slightly superior Solomani were defeated by<BR>&gt; internal squabbling and a resource rich Imperium ('victory goes to the big<BR>&gt; battalions').<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Post rim war, as you say, I sure the 3I gobbled up the prime Solomani<BR>&gt; idustrial worlds, so a current tech disparity make sense.<BR><BR><BR>I've wondered this too, an I think that you could argue in favor of a vastly<BR>higher TL SolCon if you wanted to.&nbsp; Tut the essence of what we are doing is<BR>to comfortably explain the SolCon within the context of the canonical game<BR>universe.&nbsp; Had the SolCon actually been vastly superior to the 3I<BR>technologically in all areas, it would have won hands down.&nbsp; Since it<BR>didn't, we have to assume that canon allows the 3I some significant<BR>superiorities. Either that, or this:<BR><BR>Perhaps there was rough superiority, sometime significant ly so, on the<BR>SolCon side.&nbsp; As you implied, the 3I simply had more assets to bear.<BR>Perhaps there were worlds in the current SomRim that AIDED the 3I. The old<BR>stab-in-the-back. These might have been predominantly Vilani or mixed<BR>population worlds.&nbsp; Another advantage that the 3I has is a unified command<BR>structure, essential in winning battles, vice the confederation style -<BR>loose, disjointed command structure of the SolCon.&nbsp; I would think that there<BR>would be a long term effort by the leadership of the SolCon to unify its<BR>command structure and homogenize its population and cultures to promote<BR>greater unity.&nbsp; Sorrt of like the ongoing race and culture-relations efforts<BR>in the US over that past 50 years.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:10:32 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Yeah, that would be a problem :(&nbsp; Even more of a problem on this list<BR>because of the wide range of inhabitants ;)<BR><BR>The problem for the indie web designer/operator is that making content that<BR>ALL systems can read is very time consuming.&nbsp; You can have basic text with<BR>links to pictures for the baseline, then you have to re-create everything<BR>for the wiz-bang crowd if you're trying to provide a more visual experience.<BR>&lt;Sigh&gt;<BR><BR>I do plan on going through the pain of doing that for v2 of my Traveller<BR>site though.<BR><BR>Later,<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Mikko V. I.<BR>Parviainen<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 10:11 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR><BR>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Jesse Degraff wrote:<BR>[On www pages not working for anything else than IE5]<BR>&gt; That's why I have *both* Internet Exploder and Netscrape installed on my<BR>&gt; systems (that, and checking for compatibility when I'm creating web pages<BR>;)<BR><BR>This is good if you use only systems that can run both.<BR><BR>As I do not like Windows, and our university has many Unix computers<BR>(HP-UX, former Digital Unix, Linux) I do not usually have the opportynity<BR>to use IE5. This is kinda annoying, as I do not usually use Java(script)<BR>either (for its security and other bugs), so there are many pages I just<BR>can't view.<BR><BR>The other problem is that many pages use some plug-ins, for example Flash.<BR>HP-UX or Digital Unix do not have a flash player, so these pages are out<BR>of the question for me.<BR><BR>On the other hand, the problem is not mine : I just don't read these<BR>pages, there's nothing I couldn't get from some other source. The owners<BR>of these pages just lose my interest. Their loss, apparently...<BR><BR>ObTrav : Are there recording formats and such for every planet?<BR>If everything has to be translated when shipped from a system to another,<BR>this could be expensive.<BR>("Hey, these idiots from Core still use Word 74500.2, don't they see the<BR>problems with that?")<BR><BR>- --<BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:25:41 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Ivanova<BR><BR>LOL!!!<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 7:28 AM<BR>To: traveller@ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Ivanova<BR><BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry sayeth:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Susan Ivanova (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; At 11:43 PM 10/23/2000 EDT, Loren wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That was the "Through-the-Looking-Glass Universe" episode where Spock was<BR>a<BR><BR>&gt; pirate and Invanova was . . . no . . . wait, I'm confused . . .<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; She has that effect on people.&nbsp; Susan Ivanova is one of my all-time<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; favorite characters, and her lines were pure Traveller character:<BR><BR>You might find the last paragraph of this interview entertaining:<BR><BR>http://www.scifi.com/scifi.con/games/rpgnet/interviews/wiseman.html<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:49:06 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Heck, many writers can't be bothered to check and see if their "made<BR>&gt; up" words in "future English" already exist!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A recent one that made me cringe was a fan story that had them spotted<BR>&gt; a Star Trek shuttlecraft by the presence of "taconite" in the ion trail.<BR>&gt; Taconite is a mineral. An iron ore to be specific. :-(<BR><BR>ROFL!!! Was it a shuttle from the USS Edmund Fitzgerald? <BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3253<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3254</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/3/00 2:45:15 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, November 3 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3254<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Nobles for Loren (long)<BR>RE: Ivanova<BR>Re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR>Re: GT: Humaniti<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>Re: GT: Humaniti<BR>RE: GT: Humaniti<BR>Re: Visit to NASM<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>airliner picture sought<BR>Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>Re: GT Humaniti<BR>Traveller Books<BR>Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR>Re: Ivanova<BR>Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR>Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:50:54 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren (long)<BR><BR>Hyphen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Hans wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Date:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 004-1106<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Name:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Santanocheev<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Rank:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; C-in-C, Navy Rear Admiral, Lord<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Sex: Male<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Title: Lord (what does this equate to?)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;6&nbsp; &nbsp; Santanocheev&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2-star&nbsp;&nbsp; Plot 4, Skill +1 (referred to as a Rear<BR>&gt; Admiral)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Well, he was a rear admiral two years before the FFW when he merely ran Naval<BR>&gt; &gt;Intelligence/Regina subsector, but at the time of FFW he had been promoted to<BR>&gt; &gt;sector admiral (over the heads of scores if not hundreds of other admirals).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; See above - in 1106 he was C-in-C (Sector Admiral, presumably) but called<BR>&gt; "Rear Admiral".<BR><BR>Actually, he was "CINCNINT/RS", Commander-in-Chief of Naval Intelligence for<BR>Regina Subsector.&nbsp; I got the impression he was promoted from Rear Admiral to<BR>Sector Admiral when he was given operational command.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Exactly. My surmise is that Liang, Shumii, et alii are sector admirals from<BR>&gt; &gt;Deneb and Corridor, which is why they outrank Santanocheev.<BR><BR>Yeah.&nbsp; The way I've read the graphics, is that the counters with one star<BR>are the O8 (Fleet Admiral) officers and the two star counters are O9<BR>(Sector Admiral) types.&nbsp; Grand Admirals would rate three star counters,<BR>except that the Navy doesn't let them have operational fleet command.<BR>Santanocheev probably has the most recent date-of-rank, so he's junior.<BR><BR>I have to say, the Imperial player must have gotten some rotten draws if<BR>*none* of the five admirals outranking Frederick Santanocheev showed up.<BR>Maybe they got Liang and kept him tied up in staff meetings.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Note that according to the character generation rules there are no such<BR>&gt; &gt;critters as rear and vice admirals.<BR><BR>The TNE rank table has alternate titles for O8 (Rear) and O9 (Vice); the<BR>glitch is that VADM Elphinstone is a one-star counter, but he is the most<BR>senior one-star counter.<BR><BR>There also aren't Army Vice-Marshals as a rank; but there's at least one<BR>at Efate in 1107 running the 43rd Provisional Army, and one at Rhylanor.<BR><BR>A possible in-joke/reference: there was a real Admiral Elphinstone.&nbsp; Who<BR>was he?&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:49:59 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Ivanova<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry sayeth:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Subject: Susan Ivanova (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3205)<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; At 11:43 PM 10/23/2000 EDT, Loren wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; That was the "Through-the-Looking-Glass Universe" episode <BR>&gt; where Spock was a <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; pirate and Invanova was . . . no . . . wait, I'm confused . . .<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; She has that effect on people.&nbsp; Susan Ivanova is one of <BR>&gt; my all-time<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; favorite characters, and her lines were pure Traveller character:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You might find the last paragraph of this interview entertaining:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.scifi.com/scifi.con/games/rpgnet/interviews/wiseman.html<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Sure, that's YOUR story. <BR><BR>You know the rules, if you or Marc deny it, it BECOMES true. :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:56:24 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR><BR>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Bruce Macintosh wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Dr.&nbsp; Macintosh's current astronomy interests are extrasolar planets, brown<BR>&gt; &gt;dwarfs, and high-resolution imaging of solar system objects (Io and Titan in<BR>&gt; &gt;particular.)&nbsp; More relevantly to the perpetual arguments on gdw-beta, he<BR>&gt; &gt;also does quite a bit of work on astronomical instrumentation - infrared<BR>&gt; &gt;cameras, and now adaptive optics.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sigh. (For those who weren't around, gdw-beta was the Traveller<BR>&gt; technology mailing/argument list...) Fortunately, no-one reading it is<BR>&gt; likely to have the slightest idea what it means, but it's a good cautionary<BR>&gt; reminder of how one's past persists on the web, forever...I'm not even sure<BR>&gt; what to say if someone asks me what a gdw-beta actually is. (I'm also not<BR>&gt; sure why the organizer couldn't distinguish between fantasy and reality, but<BR>&gt; that's a seperate issue.)<BR><BR>Maybe you should just ask if the organizer is a fellow Traveller. ;-)<BR><BR>Dang, wish I could be there...watch out for some joker in the back asking<BR>a question like "How many parsecs away could I resolve a gas giant,<BR>assuming I had a TL-17 passive array? And would a gravitics filter help<BR>any? Under the T4 scenario, of course? Any difference if we use BDSR?" ;-P <BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:03:45 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Humaniti<BR><BR>Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?&nbsp; Or do they not qualify<BR>as a "minor race" because they're originally from Terra?&nbsp; I would like to<BR>see them in the supplement with the Darrians, as the contrast between the<BR>cultures and their interactions are very important to each of them.<BR><BR>On a related note:<BR>&lt;Dean&gt;<BR>The guys with slaves, Chanad/Lishun.<BR>'They're not slaves! They're jak'ut! It's cultural!'<BR>&lt;/Dean&gt;<BR><BR>Hmm, shades of the "notwithstanding clause" (&lt;--obscure Canadian political<BR>reference...)&nbsp; *grumble*<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:04:34 -0800<BR>From: "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>On Thursday, November 02, 2000 4:23 PM<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR><BR>&gt; I'd have to second that one, and add my own favorite Book of all time:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Makura no Soshi by Sei Shounagon (better known as "the Pillow Book",<BR>and<BR>&gt; no, it isn't a sex manual)<BR><BR>I haven't gotten a chance to read this yet, but I loved the movie.&nbsp; A<BR>bunch of friends from the local Goth list did an outing to see it.<BR><BR>G.D.D.<BR>Thing under the stairs,<BR>Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>===========================<BR>"You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year<BR>of conversation." -Plato<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:16:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Thing wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On Thursday, November 02, 2000 4:23 PM<BR>&gt; Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I'd have to second that one, and add my own favorite Book of all time:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Makura no Soshi by Sei Shounagon (better known as "the Pillow Book",<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; &gt; no, it isn't a sex manual)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I haven't gotten a chance to read this yet, but I loved the movie.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt; bunch of friends from the local Goth list did an outing to see it.<BR>&gt; <BR>I don't think that movie has anything to do with Shounagon's book.<BR>Shounagon's book is not about sex -- it's about court intrigue.&nbsp; I've not<BR>seen the movie, what's it about?<BR><BR>Kiri<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:47:18 -0800<BR>From: "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>On Friday, November 03, 2000 10:16 AM<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR><BR>&gt; I don't think that movie has anything to do with Shounagon's book.<BR>&gt; Shounagon's book is not about sex -- it's about court intrigue.&nbsp; I've<BR>not<BR>&gt; seen the movie, what's it about?<BR><BR>The movie is about a girl who's mother used to read to her from the<BR>book.<BR><BR>Snipped from IMDB:<BR>(As a young girl in Japan, Nagiko's father paints characters on her<BR>face, and her mother reads to her from "The Pillow Book", the diary of a<BR>10th-century lady-in-waiting. Nagiko grows up, obsessed with books,<BR>papers, and writing on bodies, and her sexual odyssey (and the creation<BR>of her own Pillow Book) is a "parfait mlange" of classical Japanese,<BR>modern Chinese, and Western film images.")<BR><BR>G.D.D.<BR>Thing under the stairs,<BR>Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>===========================<BR>"I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." -<BR>Confucius<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:31:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Thing wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On Friday, November 03, 2000 10:16 AM<BR>&gt; Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I don't think that movie has anything to do with Shounagon's book.<BR>&gt; &gt; Shounagon's book is not about sex -- it's about court intrigue.&nbsp; I've<BR>&gt; not<BR>&gt; &gt; seen the movie, what's it about?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The movie is about a girl who's mother used to read to her from the<BR>&gt; book.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Snipped from IMDB: (As a young girl in Japan, Nagiko's father paints<BR>&gt; characters on her face, and her mother reads to her from "The Pillow<BR>&gt; Book", the diary of a 10th-century lady-in-waiting. Nagiko grows up,<BR>&gt; obsessed with books, papers, and writing on bodies, and her sexual<BR>&gt; odyssey (and the creation of her own Pillow Book) is a "parfait<BR>&gt; mlange" of classical Japanese, modern Chinese, and Western film<BR>&gt; images.")<BR><BR>That sounds like a very strange, and interesting-sounding movie.&nbsp; But the<BR>actual book doesn't have much in common with anything that could be called<BR>"a sexual odyssey" as there is no explicit sex in it.&nbsp; In fact, Shounagon<BR>never actually admits to having done more than spend the night with her<BR>various courtiers, although any adult with half a brain can figure out<BR>that it wasn't all about writing poetry and watching the moon, as you had<BR>to get dressed in the morning and men who are too eager to get dressed and<BR>be about their business are considered insensitive.<BR><BR>There is lots of discussion of who is spending the night with who and<BR>how one should and should not go about getting invited to stay over,<BR>leave, etc but no discussion whatsoever about what you do once the doors<BR>are slid shut and the maids sent away.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Kiri<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 13:41:37 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Humaniti<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?&nbsp; Or do they not qualify<BR>&gt;as a "minor race" because they're originally from Terra?<BR><BR>*ALL* of Humaniti is originally from Terra. So then I assume that you mean <BR>"originnally from the Third Imperium"?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:42:17 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: GT: Humaniti<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?&nbsp; Or do <BR>&gt; they not qualify<BR>&gt; &gt;as a "minor race" because they're originally from Terra?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; *ALL* of Humaniti is originally from Terra. So then I assume <BR>&gt; that you mean <BR>&gt; "originnally from the Third Imperium"?<BR><BR>Don't swallow SolSec's propaganda!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:51 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Visit to NASM<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;v04220817b627c1af135c@[128.102.186.102]&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>David wrote "I try and remind people that Traveller ships are<BR>a mature technology and when you design then you shouldn't think<BR>about the space shuttle but a cesna."<BR><BR>Good point: space travel is everyday technology by the time of TRAVELLER. <BR>Yes, it can be exciting and an adventure... can be when I fire up the <BR>computer and go on the Internet. For some folk it's a once in a lifetime <BR>experience or at least, something only done occasionally or for a specific <BR>purpose; some of us work there :-)<BR><BR>People who like cars get excited when a new model comes into the showroom <BR>(I live one mile from the Rolls-Royce plant!) the rest of us might show a <BR>passing interest if we happen to see one, or only notice when we either <BR>need a new car or get an opportunity to ride in this new beast.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:51 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;014301c045c0$85cd3730$2201a8c0@GDDLAPTOP&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I've only read Makura no Soshi by Sei Shounagon in translation, alas; but <BR>it is, as Kiri says, what any Imperial noble lady should be reading <BR>(while, of course, her spouse has his nose in Niccolo Machiavelli's The <BR>Prince...).<BR><BR>But what I have always had fun with is inventing the 'great works of <BR>literature' created on other worlds, the things the literati (or even the <BR>masses) rave about when you go there. "But my dear, you really MUST read <BR>Skeether's Broadband Transmission...."<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:28:45 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>Alternatively the article is posted on my website (URL below), got to<BR>travTNE and the articles it is about half way down the page.&nbsp; many thanks<BR>again for Robert O'Connor for permission to post this article.&nbsp; Gotta build<BR>those hits you know.<BR><BR>original post<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 01:57:03 +1100<BR>&gt;From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>&gt;I did that for oxygen in some posts on this very topic in August last<BR>&gt;year. There is also data for carbon dioxide, monoxide, particulates,<BR>&gt;ozone... a whole slew of stuff. Check out the list archives.<BR>&gt;Robert O'Connor<BR>&gt;Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 12:46:52 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: airliner picture sought<BR><BR>Hi all!<BR><BR>Anyone have a picture of or link to an airliner or similar cockpit picture,<BR>taken FROM the instrument panel TOWARDS the pilots?&nbsp; I'm looking to create a<BR>texture map that allows you to see detail inside the cockpit of my models,<BR>and since I'm still working on the Cutter Sourcebook (it'll be done by<BR>Monday Loren, Phil, &amp; Andy, I SWEAR!!) it could appear as early as that.<BR><BR>Lemme' know!&nbsp; If you've got something, can you send it to both my home and<BR>work e-mails?&nbsp; 'Preciate it!!!<BR><BR>Jesse<BR>jdegraff@pacbell.net<BR>jedegraf@cisco.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 15:54:27 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "William 'Commander X' Prankard" &lt;cmdrx@ao.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR><BR>Ground Forces is here!&nbsp; All hail The Penguin Boy!<BR>Inside is a design system for making just grav vehicles. Module based like<BR>ships to make it easier to build such craft.&nbsp; Tom Bont has produced a new<BR>repository for this system. (KUDOS!)<BR><BR>In celebration of this, the boys at GravametriX (A wholy owned subsidiary<BR>of X-TEK) have produced a few new toys for your enjoyment. Links are as<BR>follows:<BR><BR>Nimbus-1121 Gravbike<BR>http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek/gurps/vehicles/gravbike.htm<BR><BR>RVX-1120 Grav RV<BR>http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek/gurps/vehicles/gravrv.htm<BR><BR>Crimson Storm-class Attack Speeder<BR>http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek/gurps/vehicles/speeder.htm<BR><BR>Have fun, and remember X-TEK assumes no responsibility for damages caused<BR>by personal misuse of its products. (Yes the Nimbus-1121 can reach almost<BR>Mach 2 and escape the atmosphere. Doesn't mean you HAVE to..&lt;WEG&gt;) <BR><BR>\\&nbsp; &nbsp; //&nbsp; Commander X<BR>\\&nbsp; //&nbsp;&nbsp; CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>&nbsp; T E K&nbsp;&nbsp; Starship Contractor &amp; High Energy Weapons Research<BR>//&nbsp; \\&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek<BR>//&nbsp; &nbsp; \\&nbsp; 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:35:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Megan Robertson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've only read Makura no Soshi by Sei Shounagon in translation, alas; but <BR>&gt; it is, as Kiri says, what any Imperial noble lady should be reading <BR>&gt; (while, of course, her spouse has his nose in Niccolo Machiavelli's The <BR>&gt; Prince...).<BR><BR>Ha, I read it in English too.&nbsp; Japanese is my second language, and I don't<BR>yet know enough Chinese characters or etymology to read that particular<BR>work in the original.&nbsp; It is about as different from the Japanese I speak<BR>with my friends as the English I speak with my other friends is from the<BR>English that was spoken 1000 years ago, because it is about that old!<BR><BR>In 2-3 years I shall be reading it in Japanese.&nbsp; Literacy comes more<BR>slowly than fluency of speech due to the 2000+ Chinese characters in daily<BR>use.&nbsp; I didn't start learning to read Japanese till I was an adult. <BR><BR>&gt; But what I have always had fun with is inventing the 'great works of<BR>&gt; literature' created on other worlds, the things the literati (or even<BR>&gt; the masses) rave about when you go there. "But my dear, you really<BR>&gt; MUST read Skeether's Broadband Transmission...."<BR><BR>Yes, Mexal-- that's loads of fun too!<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 00:06:35 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>&gt; From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: GT Humaniti<BR>&gt; Each submission will address one race. It will give concise accounts of<BR>&gt; their historical involvement with the Imperium, and will include racial<BR>&gt; templates. The author should be familiar not only with GURPS Traveller,<BR>but<BR>&gt; also the original Classic Traveller source material.<BR><BR>With Kenji missing presumed harvard, I vote we contribute the Sayat. I guess<BR>we can come up with the templates.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 21:37:44 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller Books<BR><BR>Ok having lurked through several discussions of copyright etc, I am a bit<BR>cautious about posting this question.&nbsp; First comment, this is just for<BR>interest's sake, I've no (realistic) intent on doing any of this.&nbsp; I just<BR>get the feeling I may be opening a real can of worms here.<BR><BR>What is the general situation with writing/publishing stories based on the<BR>Traveller universe (other than via SJG/Marc Millar etc)?&nbsp; For example a book<BR>based around the adventures of a group of travellers in the far future, set<BR>in a universe where the 2 major powers are the Solomani Confederation and<BR>the Imperium. They travel in an Empress Markava starship etc.<BR><BR>Basically I'm talking about someone writing up the adventurers of a player<BR>group.&nbsp; Would this have to be approved by anyone, assuming the name<BR>Traveller wasn't used and it wasn't passed&nbsp; off as a 'Traveller book'.&nbsp; If<BR>it was sold as standard SF and players would notice some similarities to<BR>Traveller (e.g. Jump Drive, 1 week duration some other tech stuff) but<BR>casual readers would have no inkling it was inspired by a RPG.&nbsp; I also<BR>assume that canon would not be broken or changed in any significant manner.<BR><BR>Ok I'm ducking now.<BR><BR>Peter (who is already regretting posting this)<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:15:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: What Music Survived?)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; Heck, many writers can't be bothered to check and see if their "made<BR>&gt;&gt; up" words in "future English" already exist!<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; A recent one that made me cringe was a fan story that had them spotted<BR>&gt;&gt; a Star Trek shuttlecraft by the presence of "taconite" in the ion trail.<BR>&gt;&gt; Taconite is a mineral. An iron ore to be specific. :-(<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ROFL!!! Was it a shuttle from the USS Edmund Fitzgerald? <BR><BR>No, from Voyager. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:27:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Ivanova<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On that note, are any other TMLers planning to go to Exoticon 3.1415 in<BR>&gt; New Orleans this year?&nbsp; Claudia Christian is one of the guests this<BR>&gt; year.<BR><BR>&gt; The dates are 17-19 November 2000.<BR><BR>Sorry, I'll be at OryCon here in Portland then.<BR><BR>BTW, shouldn't that be "3.1416"? After all, truncating is bad...<BR><BR>3.141592654....<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:33:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Science Fiction of the Third Imperium<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;...I understand<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; that there are subclasses of SF, one of which is called something like <BR>&gt; "hard<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; science fiction," in which the author thinks of a clever application of<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; advanced or speculative technology and basically uses his story to show <BR>&gt; this<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; technology in operation.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Not quite. And please note that science and technology are *not* the<BR>&gt;&gt;same thing, even though they are related. Both are found in SF.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The sort of story you refer to hasn't been a mainstay of SF since about<BR>&gt;&gt;1930. It was about then that writers like Heinlein and campbell started<BR>&gt;&gt;using the tech as the *setting*, but telling the story about the *people*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On the other hand, there are stories that do both. For instance, one of the<BR>&gt; strengths of Bob Shaw's writing is where he takes a specific technology such <BR>&gt; as<BR>&gt; grav belts ("A Little Night Flying" and _Vertigo_), "slow glass" (_Other <BR>&gt; Days,<BR>&gt; Other Eyes_), or even psi-based blindness cures (_Night Walk_) and puts his<BR>&gt; characters into the resultant environment. We see the results of the <BR>&gt; technology,<BR>&gt; both good and bad, through their eyes - thus we have a blend of tech and<BR>&gt; characterisation. Plus good stoylines, to boot. ;-)<BR><BR>The pre-Campbell type of SF went of for pages about the gizmo and all<BR>the neat stuff it could do. The people didn't rate the label of<BR>"cardboard cutouts"!<BR><BR>What you are describing is "typical" tech-oriented "modern" SF. Pretty<BR>much what I described above. The tech is the setting, but the story is<BR>about the people interacting with the setting.<BR><BR>&gt; Larry Niven did much the same thing for "transfer booths" in some<BR>&gt; "Known Space" short stories - take one new technology, apply it to<BR>&gt; our world, and extrapolate what happens... one way of discovering if<BR>&gt; there were any Unintended Consequences from allowing this tech to be<BR>&gt; developed.<BR><BR>Actually, the "transfer booths on near future earth" stories *aren't*<BR>part of Known Space. But Niven had transfer booths discovered in Known<BR>Space, just much later (like a generation or so before Beowulf Schaefer).<BR><BR>There's a Niven collection that has most of the transfer booth stories,<BR>and it includes stories with the technology being used in space travel<BR>(including some interstellar trips) in ways *completely* at odds with<BR>the Known Space timeline.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:44:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Heck, it occurs to me that we could use a table of max/min safe partial<BR>&gt;&gt; pressures for various common atmospheric gases. Max for all gases,<BR>&gt;&gt; including oxygen, and min for oxygen.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I did that for oxygen in some posts on this very topic in August last<BR>&gt; year. There is also data for carbon dioxide, monoxide, particulates,<BR>&gt; ozone... a whole slew of stuff. Check out the list archives.<BR><BR>I remember that, but as I recall, it didn't quite do it the way I was<BR>suggesting above. <BR><BR>&gt; * - survival is more likely (less chance of ventilator associated<BR>&gt; pneumonia).<BR><BR>I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3254<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.74]) by air-xa01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 17:45:15 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 17:44:37 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA01927;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:41:28 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:41:12 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA01838<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:41:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:41:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011032241.RAA01838@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3254<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, November 3 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3255<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3254<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: Traveller Books<BR>Re: Traveller Books<BR>More Traveller Jobs--Administration<BR>Re: running down pedestrians<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>RE: Views<BR>Re: More Traveller Items for Sale<BR>Re: More Traveller Items for Sale<BR>Re: Nobles for Loren <BR>Re: GT: Humaniti<BR>Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR>Re: GT Humaniti<BR>RE: Views<BR>Re: Views<BR>Re: Culture <BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:53:22 -0600<BR>From: ybrekp@mtco.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3254<BR><BR>in mail you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; BTW, shouldn't that be "3.1416"? After all, truncating is bad...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 3.141592654....<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Only if you aren't a banker computing interest you have to pay. Bankers love <BR>truncating.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:01:15 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;Based on the Striker rules, I think HEAP shotgun rounds should be<BR>&gt;&gt;feasible.&nbsp; Such rounds exist for 10mm snub pistols, so why not 18mm<BR>&gt;&gt;shotguns?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I am generally in favor of HEAP shotgun rounds.&nbsp; While you're thinking about<BR>&gt;small arms, would you mind taking a crack at Striker statistics for the<BR>&gt;automatic rocket launcher.&nbsp; It's in JTAS no. 11 or 12, I think.&nbsp; It's a TL<BR>&gt;10, higher caliber, fully automatic, version of the accelerator rifle, with<BR>&gt;a variety of rounds (including HEAP).&nbsp; TL 10 makes it perfect for Mongo.<BR><BR>&nbsp; I have some stats from a CT/Striker campaign back in the mid-80's:<BR>TL&nbsp; Weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cost&nbsp; &nbsp; Weight&nbsp; Length&nbsp; Mag.&nbsp; &nbsp; Notes<BR>A&nbsp; 2cm ARL&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 800 Cr&nbsp; 3.0 kg&nbsp; 750mm&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; low recoil<BR><BR>TL&nbsp; Weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; Ammo:cost/weight&nbsp; &nbsp; Eff&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; Ext&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Damage<BR>A&nbsp; 2cm ARL&nbsp;&nbsp; HEAP Cr30/0.5kg mag 300m(9) 600m(9) 900m(9)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; HE&nbsp;&nbsp; Cr20/0.5kg mag 300m(5) 600m(5) 900m(5)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR><BR>&nbsp; After all this time I can't speak as to why those stats were assigned;<BR>I'd be inclined to make the contact HE damage 5 (?) if I re-did things.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Speaking of the CT/Striker era, have any of the rules versions since<BR>then been as good?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 18:06:34 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Books<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/3/00 4:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Ok having lurked through several discussions of copyright etc, I am a bit<BR>&gt;&nbsp; cautious about posting this question.&nbsp; First comment, this is just for<BR>&gt;&nbsp; interest's sake, I've no (realistic) intent on doing any of this.&nbsp; I just<BR>&gt;&nbsp; get the feeling I may be opening a real can of worms here.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; What is the general situation with writing/publishing stories based on the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Traveller universe (other than via SJG/Marc Millar etc)?&nbsp; For example a <BR>book<BR>&gt;&nbsp; based around the adventures of a group of travellers in the far future, set<BR>&gt;&nbsp; in a universe where the 2 major powers are the Solomani Confederation and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the Imperium. They travel in an Empress Markava starship etc.<BR><BR>The general situation is, call your lawyer and have him get ready for the<BR>suit.<BR><BR>Seriously. I can't quote you chapter and verse of the relevant law (others<BR>here probably can) but you're talking about infringement here.&nbsp; Whether<BR>the "casual reader" would recognize the references is irrelevant.<BR><BR>*With* the permission of the copyright holder is something else entirely.<BR>Talk to Marc Miller.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri,&nbsp; 3 Nov 2000 17:42:26 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Books<BR><BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR><BR>&gt;In a message dated 11/3/00 4:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>&gt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; What is the general situation with writing/publishing stories based on the<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Traveller universe (other than via SJG/Marc Millar etc)?&nbsp; For example a <BR>&gt;book<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; based around the adventures of a group of travellers in the far future, set<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; in a universe where the 2 major powers are the Solomani Confederation and<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; the Imperium. They travel in an Empress Markava starship etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The general situation is, call your lawyer and have him get ready for the<BR>&gt;suit.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Seriously. I can't quote you chapter and verse of the relevant law (others<BR>&gt;here probably can) but you're talking about infringement here.&nbsp; Whether<BR>&gt;the "casual reader" would recognize the references is irrelevant.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;*With* the permission of the copyright holder is something else entirely.<BR>&gt;Talk to Marc Miller.<BR><BR>Also expect Mr. Miller to want part of the sales in such an agreement (assuming you're charging for the story). However, you still need permission even if it's just fanfic that's on you're website (I doubt he would charge you if you weren't charging others, but some copyright holders may, even if they given you permission).<BR><BR>(wasn't there some big flap about Paramount cracking down on Star Trek fanfic a while back?)<BR><BR>I'm sure bloo has more on this and his rates are reasonable ... ;)<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:04:40 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: More Traveller Jobs--Administration<BR><BR>Administration<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Administration skill is the ability to organize things, people, and <BR>information together in the right time and place to accomplish a given task.&nbsp; <BR>It involves both record keeping and planning.&nbsp; The particular things, <BR>information, and people to be organized depend on the work that needs to be <BR>done. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This skill is vital in order to handle large-scale, complex tasks of <BR>any kind; whether they be governments, corporations, universities, or naval <BR>fleets, to name only a few.&nbsp; Generally, the higher the level of <BR>administrative skill, the more complex the organization or task the character <BR>can manage.&nbsp; Most managers of small organizations and enterprises are <BR>required to do their own paperwork and need to have administrative skill in <BR>addition to their primary skill, simply to survive as an organization or get <BR>the job done.&nbsp; In larger organizations, administrative tasks become too <BR>complex for one person to handle, and many are delegated to an administrative <BR>support staff, though higher officers need to have some administration skill.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Most jobs involving administration skill alone are secretarial and <BR>clerical, and involve paper-pushing or the culture's equivalent: One society <BR>may use clay tablets, while another uses computers.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CT does not have this skill: MT and T4 do.&nbsp; TNE combines it with <BR>legal skill.<BR><BR>Related jobs<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Officers and officials.&nbsp; The ability to organize people to accomplish a <BR>given task requires leadership skill.&nbsp; Administrators without leadership <BR>ability are confined to positions as secretaries and clerks.&nbsp; Hence, the <BR>higher level officers in any sufficiently large organization have both <BR>Leadership and admin.&nbsp; In careers with formal ranks, those without at least <BR>one skill level of either administration or leadership for every two officer <BR>ranks (rounded down) are regarded as incompetent, and those of rank O4 or <BR>better are expected to have both. Many careers do not have formal ranks, but <BR>do have a similar structure.&nbsp; &nbsp; Few people can balance administration and <BR>leadership equally. Those who excel in leadership usually detest paperwork; <BR>those who excel at administration are usually better behind the desk than in <BR>the field.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Bureacracy.&nbsp; Administrative skill with legal skill allows one to know and <BR>follow the rules of governments or other large organizations.&nbsp; Characters <BR>with this combination know the how and which of filling out forms to get <BR>things accomplished in a high-law society.&nbsp; The presence or absence of <BR>leadership in addition to this combination makes the difference between one <BR>who makes the rules and one who only follow or applies them.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Business managers.&nbsp; Addition of merchant skill gives an administrator <BR>familiarity with accounting and&nbsp; the language of business.&nbsp; Business managers <BR>are found primarily in corporations, but a smattering can be found in ay <BR>large organization.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Instructor.&nbsp; Addition of instructional skill allows an administrator to <BR>either teach others the skill or work in an educational institution.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Staff officer.&nbsp; Administrators with combat skills of any type are usually <BR>found on the support staff in security organizations and the military.&nbsp; These <BR>are the people who can make or break an organization by how well, or how <BR>poorly, they keep track of what is supposed to be going on.&nbsp; Often only a <BR>low, familiarization&nbsp; levels of the combat skill is required to work <BR>effectively on the staff, but the higher one goes in the ranks, the more <BR>important it is to have actual skill.&nbsp; Military logistics is the province of <BR>the administrator.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Producer.&nbsp; Administrators with artistic skill, at least at the <BR>familiarization level, do the organizing of props and sets, instruments;&nbsp; <BR>scores, scripts and manuscripts; and actors, artists, performers, musicians, <BR>writers, and whatnot in order to put on a performance or series of <BR>performances.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Medical adminstrator.&nbsp; Administrators, including clerks and secretaries <BR>as well as senior administrators, are involved in hospitals and treatment <BR>centers of various kinds. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Stewards.&nbsp; A variety of jobs is open to administrators with steward <BR>skill.&nbsp; Typically, they work as receptionists and in customer service, where <BR>the complexities of the organization they meet the needs and demands of a <BR>variety of people.&nbsp; Steward skill is often useful to organizers of events <BR>such as fairs and conventions, though carousing is often useful as well.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Managers.&nbsp; Those who can handle record-keeping and planning may find work <BR>in large scale farms and ranches, construction projects, industrial plants, <BR>and the like.&nbsp; They may either be in charge of such projects or on the staff <BR>of someone who is.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Technical Managers.&nbsp; Likewise, administrators are found in higher-tech <BR>industries and plants, where they may handle the details of complex projects <BR>which employ electronic, gravitic robotic, computer.&nbsp; They may work in public <BR>utilities, for manufacturers, or in the engineering department of the larger <BR>starships; again either as managers or on their support staff.&nbsp; Dispatchers <BR>are a special case, where communication skill is required.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fleet administrator.&nbsp; A high order of administrative skill is required to <BR>coordinate the cargo, passengers, crew and see that a fleet of vehicles <BR>carries what, when, and where it is supposed to, as well as receiving proper <BR>maintenance.&nbsp;&nbsp; Some vehicles are large enough to require and administrative <BR>staff of their own.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Spaceship officer.&nbsp; The captain of a free trader is responsible for the <BR>administration of the ship.&nbsp; This is sometimes considered the province of the <BR>player, though it may be delegated to the administration skill of the <BR>character.&nbsp; As with other organizations, sufficiently large starships usually <BR>have their own administrative personnel.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The social skills of carousing, fast-talk, diplomacy, intimidation, <BR>persuasion or language usually help more in internal office politicking or <BR>external relations than they do to actual performance of an administrative <BR>job.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Administrators chiefly use knowledge of intrusion, bribery, and forgery, <BR>and streetwise knowledge to prevent them being used against their <BR>organizations. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Other administrators and managers.&nbsp; Scientific, investigative, and <BR>physical skills are of little direct job benefit except to those who organize <BR>activities and teams in those fields.&nbsp; To those people, a familiarity with <BR>the appropriate skill is both required and, usually, sufficient.<BR><BR>Plot ideas<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Situations that require administrative skill include organizing of large <BR>scale or complex enterprises.&nbsp; Success in administrative tasks means that <BR>planning is successful, estimates of time and cost are correct, and <BR>activities are well-coordinated and successful.&nbsp; Failure means that there are <BR>missed deadlines, cost overruns, or that activities are uncoordinated and <BR>wasteful if the goals are accomplished at all.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Preparing a budget for a family is one thing; preparing a budget <BR>for a planetary givernment is something else entirely.&nbsp; Also, administrators <BR>prefer economic, political, and environmental stability: change of any kind <BR>makes their jobs more difficult.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The importance of administrative skill for PCs depends in part on the <BR>culture they are dealing with, and what they are trying to do in it.&nbsp; For <BR>instance, on one planet, selling one's cargo is a simple barter transaction, <BR>with no one in any particular hurry.&nbsp; On the next, it involves an elaborate <BR>dance involving half a dozen officials, a dozen forms, two dockings and three <BR>cargo shuttles, all scripted to the minute or it costs up to several thousand <BR>credits in various fees and penalties.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:04:34 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Re: running down pedestrians<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Re : running down pedestrians<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; In response to Ian Ferguson's question, Ewan Quibell wrote :-<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; The difference between 20, 30 and 40 miles an hour (32 kph, 48 kph and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; 64 kph) was significant. I can't remember the figures as quoted but I<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; think the survival rate dropped sharply like 90%, 50%, 30%. I could well<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; be wrong, and if anyone knows the actual stats please correct me.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; That's actually pretty close.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 50% mortality is at 40km/h for pedestrian vs. car, from the trauma<BR>&gt;&nbsp; literature.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; The graph is probably sigmoid (a 'dose-response' curve).<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I'd punt for an LD10 (10% kill) of 20km/h, and an LD90 (90% kill) of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 80km/h. This obviously assumes contemporary trauma management.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; I'd be inclined to add velocities to determine damage. So if someone<BR>&gt;&nbsp; runs at 20km/h into an oncoming car, things get worse for them...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Robert O'Connor<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Medico, Gamer<BR>&gt; <BR>I think you're looking for relative velocities. If two objects are moving <BR>toward one onother, add their speeds to get the effective speed of collision: <BR>if they are moving apart, subtract the slower one. <BR>Even though world record sprinters can go just over 36 km/hr (for 100 meters) <BR>most pedestrians will be doing well at a third that. But charging an <BR>oncoming vehicle at 20 km/hr is irrational even from a suicidal point of view.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 15:55:01 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;014301c045c0$85cd3730$2201a8c0@GDDLAPTOP&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've only read Makura no Soshi by Sei Shounagon in translation, alas; but <BR>&gt; it is, as Kiri says, what any Imperial noble lady should be reading <BR>&gt; (while, of course, her spouse has his nose in Niccolo Machiavelli's The <BR>&gt; Prince...).<BR><BR>Or vice versa. The Imperium seems at least *somewhat* freer of sexual<BR>bias than we are. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 13:52:25 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Jesse Degraff wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; The problem for the indie web designer/operator is that making<BR>&gt; content that ALL systems can read is very time consuming.<BR><BR>No, it isn't.&nbsp; Just make a website that only uses HTML2.0<BR>It's all you need for a good web site.<BR><BR>&gt; You can have basic text with<BR>&gt; links to pictures for the baseline, then you have to re-create everything<BR>&gt; for the wiz-bang crowd if you're trying to provide a more visual<BR>&gt; experience.<BR><BR>Just say No.<BR><BR>BTW, you can do some vary fancy things with plain HTML.<BR><BR>Remember, as Roger Black says,&nbsp; the first colour is white, the second color<BR>is black, and the third colour is red, and you don't need any other colours.<BR>And as Jakob Neilsen says, say no to frames.<BR><BR>Get your clients to read Jakob Nielsen's recent book if they have a problem<BR>with it !<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>The way you handle fancy stuff, if you really, really have to, is to use XML<BR>as the source with an XSL stylesheet selected via Servlet based on browser<BR>type and the Accept: list.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 11:38:21 +1100<BR>From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" &lt;NarellePark@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Items for Sale<BR><BR>Sir,<BR><BR>Depending on what's going, may be interested in purchasing something.<BR><BR>Respectfully,<BR><BR>J.M. Malone<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 11:54:34 +1100<BR>From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" &lt;NarellePark@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Items for Sale<BR><BR>Apologies all...meant to send this to the sender, not the list.<BR><BR>Jeff Malone (aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:22:32 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren <BR><BR>&gt; From: Steven Bonneville <BR>&gt; I have to say, the Imperial player must have gotten some rotten draws if<BR>&gt; *none* of the five admirals outranking Frederick Santanocheev showed up.<BR>&gt; Maybe they got Liang and kept him tied up in staff meetings.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>He probably had Admin-8, and won the war from Mora, controlling the flow of<BR>supplies. :)&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; A possible in-joke/reference: there was a real Admiral Elphinstone.&nbsp; Who<BR>&gt; was he?&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>Dunno.&nbsp; There was a General Elphinstone ("Elphy Bey") in the British army<BR>in the First Afghan War.&nbsp; There is a fictionalised, but probably reasonably<BR>fair, portrayal of him in the first of the "Flashman" books.&nbsp; Shall we say<BR>that in the real world he was not one of history's great commanders?<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:33:37 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Humaniti<BR><BR>&gt; From: Charles Collin <BR>&gt; Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?&nbsp; Or do they not qualify<BR>&gt; as a "minor race" because they're originally from Terra?&nbsp; I would like to<BR>&gt; see them in the supplement with the Darrians, as the contrast between the<BR>&gt; cultures and their interactions are very important to each of them.<BR><BR>This is a good idea.&nbsp; It would be especially useful since the Sword<BR>Worlders are one of the most likely cultures to actually be used in Marches<BR>oriented campaigns.&nbsp; <BR><BR>In addition, it is quite likely that there are "cultural" Sword Worlders<BR>within the Imperium, even outside the worlds that have been annexed after<BR>the 5FW, so this could be a handy little guide to playing one of the human<BR>cultures existing within the Imperium itself.&nbsp; Yes, there are cultural<BR>differences between people from Regina and people from Vilis....<BR><BR>Granted, the Sworld Worlders aren't technically a minor race, but they are<BR>important, useful and interesting, so I think an exception should be made,<BR>if it is necessary to do so.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:54:32 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR><BR>&gt; From: "William 'Commander X' Prankard" <BR>&gt; In celebration of this, the boys at GravametriX (A wholy owned subsidiary<BR>&gt; of X-TEK) have produced a few new toys for your enjoyment. Links are as<BR><BR>Just yesterday I thought of a company that might make a suitable X-TEK<BR>subsidiary too: Planetex (PlanetX).&nbsp; I was thinking of using it myself<BR>though, after I checked it out on the Net to make sure it didn't exist in<BR>the "Real World" (tm).<BR><BR>I was thinking of introducing it when I get around to posting the ACVs I<BR>have been working on for Striker.<BR><BR>Oh, a question to anybody:&nbsp; I have been seeking inspiration from the T2K<BR>and 2300AD Vehicle Guides.&nbsp; Sadly, my 2300AD books are in the same abyss as<BR>my CT Darrians module. Can someone tell me is there a centimetres of steel<BR>equivalent for the 2300 armour values?&nbsp; If so, what is it?<BR><BR>Yes, I am nutty enough to try direct conversions from the 2300 vehicles. <BR>It does actually seem to kind of work, with a bit of fiddling.&nbsp; The worst<BR>problem is that many of the 2300 vehicles are horribly under-armoured and<BR>under-gunned by Striker standards.&nbsp; I guess that is a result of a "speed is<BR>armour" doctrine, where everything has to be as light and small and fast as<BR>possible.&nbsp; Mind you, the main thing I am ignoring are the scales included<BR>with the drawings in the book, and instead being hardline on the listed<BR>weights.<BR><BR>I am going to have trouble when I get to the things that aren't quite such<BR>tin-cans though:&nbsp; their armour is going to weigh lots.&nbsp; Still, a few tons<BR>can provide a lot of armour on something not that much bigger than a<BR>three-person skateboard.<BR><BR>Oh, and I may have to resort to using Fusion plants if I want to preserve<BR>the length of time for which there is fuel.&nbsp; Putting 18 hours worth of fuel<BR>for an MHD turbine in a vehicle adds new meaning to the word "tank".&nbsp; That<BR>means that these little tricycles are going to cost biiig bucks.<BR><BR>Oh well, I'm sure you all wanted to know that, didn't you? :)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:56:34 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>&gt; With Kenji missing presumed harvard, I vote we contribute the Sayat. I<BR>&gt; guess we can come up with the templates.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>&lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>I suppose we would have to provide some typical Sayat technology too?<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 17:24:22 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>&gt; No, it isn't.&nbsp; Just make a website that only uses HTML2.0<BR>&gt; It's all you need for a good web site.<BR><BR><BR>But what fun is that?&nbsp; As a web *designer*, you're constantly trying to push<BR>the envelope to provide a more visceral experience.&nbsp; Personally, I<BR>ultimately want to give people the ultimate Traveller experience [note that<BR>my site does NOT do that right now, it just showcases pictures].&nbsp; I want<BR>people to get lost in the suspension of disbelief and (once v2 of my Trav<BR>site is up) come away with the feeling that they've just come back from<BR>holiday or a biz trip at the Freeport in Patinir / Aramis / Spinward<BR>Marches.&nbsp; I want people to be *immersed* in my little pocket of the TU.&nbsp; I<BR>want them to come away speechless.&nbsp; If I could, I'd do it with a holodeck :)<BR>However, that technology (or GamePark et al) is not available, so I have to<BR>settle for the next best I can get.<BR><BR>I'll be the first to admit my ignorance.&nbsp; I'm a graphics guy, NOT a<BR>programmer.&nbsp; Hell, I *still* use MS Front Page to create my website!&nbsp; Will<BR>HTML2.0 provide the kind of interactivity, audio, movement, etc., that I'm<BR>looking for?&nbsp; I'm thinking that ultimately I'll need to learn how to use<BR>Flash to provide the kind of thing I'm looking for.....<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Just say No.<BR><BR><BR>See above :)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Remember, as Roger Black says,&nbsp; the first colour is white, the<BR>&gt; second color<BR>&gt; is black, and the third colour is red, and you don't need any<BR>&gt; other colours.<BR><BR><BR>From a design standpoint I was always fighting for more whitespace at my<BR>last job.&nbsp; I DO know what you mean, but that's not neccessarily what I<BR>envision for my "Ultimate Traveller Experience"(tm).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; And as Jakob Neilsen says, say no to frames.<BR><BR><BR>I'd have to agree with that!&nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Get your clients to read Jakob Nielsen's recent book if they have<BR>&gt; a problem<BR>&gt; with it !<BR>&gt; &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Not a problem.&nbsp; No clients ;)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The way you handle fancy stuff, if you really, really have to, is<BR>&gt; to use XML<BR>&gt; as the source with an XSL stylesheet selected via Servlet based on browser<BR>&gt; type and the Accept: list.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Frankie<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Currently beyond my technical knowledge, but obviously an area that I'm<BR>going to have to look into as v2 (or maybe v3) progresses.<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Jesse<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 18:46:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; No, it isn't.&nbsp; Just make a website that only uses HTML2.0<BR>&gt;&gt; It's all you need for a good web site.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But what fun is that?&nbsp; As a web *designer*, you're constantly trying to push<BR>&gt; the envelope to provide a more visceral experience.&nbsp; Personally, I<BR>&gt; ultimately want to give people the ultimate Traveller experience [note that<BR>&gt; my site does NOT do that right now, it just showcases pictures].&nbsp; I want<BR>&gt; people to get lost in the suspension of disbelief and (once v2 of my Trav<BR>&gt; site is up) come away with the feeling that they've just come back from<BR>&gt; holiday or a biz trip at the Freeport in Patinir / Aramis / Spinward<BR>&gt; Marches.&nbsp; I want people to be *immersed* in my little pocket of the TU.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; want them to come away speechless.&nbsp; If I could, I'd do it with a holodeck :)<BR>&gt; However, that technology (or GamePark et al) is not available, so I have to<BR>&gt; settle for the next best I can get.<BR><BR>&gt; I'll be the first to admit my ignorance.&nbsp; I'm a graphics guy, NOT a<BR>&gt; programmer.&nbsp; Hell, I *still* use MS Front Page to create my website!&nbsp; Will<BR>&gt; HTML2.0 provide the kind of interactivity, audio, movement, etc., that I'm<BR>&gt; looking for?&nbsp; I'm thinking that ultimately I'll need to learn how to use<BR>&gt; Flash to provide the kind of thing I'm looking for.....<BR><BR>Keep in mind things like *loading time*. Most people are still using<BR>modems, not cable or DSL. The graphics *alone* are going to eat up<BR>bandwidth. <BR><BR>Snappy screen updates with "cartoon" graphics is more interactive than<BR>photo-realistic images that take seconds to update. <BR><BR>Also, when looking for *info*, I'd *rather* use a pure text browser<BR>like Lynx. <BR><BR>And frankly, a web page *shouldn't* be a glorified videogame. Web pages<BR>are for communicating &amp; distributing information. <BR><BR>I'd *strongly* suggest making that "ultimate Traveller experience" a<BR>menu option on the main page, but *not* making it the entirety of the<BR>site. <BR><BR>And while the people using things like Lynx(text only), Arachne, and<BR>NetTamer are a minority, they aren't a small market *especially* since<BR>all of those run on things like palmtops. <BR><BR>And don't forget the fact that cell phones are doing text-only<BR>browsing... <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 22:34:41 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture <BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0219_01C045E6.42145FC0<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>I originally unwittingly depicted the 3I as "Yanks in Space" when I =<BR>started playing in 1981.&nbsp; Over the years after seeing more of the world, =<BR>I came to realize that this was inadequate and inaccurate, especially =<BR>given the underrated influence if the Vilani culture in early Traveller =<BR>canon.&nbsp; My 3I is presently quite alien in comparison.&nbsp; It is essentially =<BR>the Traveller 3I, but theoretically vaster, owing to the fact that it =<BR>has a 3rd dimension.&nbsp; The geometry also incorporates Deneb in its actual =<BR>position and that makes the 3I much, much larger than in canon. =20<BR><BR>The Vilani influence is tremendous in the core and is the dominant =<BR>influence.&nbsp; The 3I takes on the flavor of the British Empire&nbsp; as it was =<BR>when it ruled India, South Africa and ...the Dominion of Canada (my =<BR>model for the Spinward Frontier, with the Marches being East Canada). =20<BR><BR>The SolCon is under development (with Tod Glenn's help!) but resembles =<BR>the ultra-tech fascist state we have been discussing on the list.&nbsp; It is =<BR>very high TL, particularly, in the soft tech fields, but as in the OTU =<BR>smaller than the 3I.&nbsp; Like the 3I, it consists of semi-autonomous worlds =<BR>over-governed by the SolCon, which functions like the 3I, ruling the =<BR>space between the systems as well as the uninhabited systems.&nbsp; The =<BR>SolCon is progressing gradually toward&nbsp; a stronger, more benign =<BR>federalized form of fascism.&nbsp; It does not in any way, shape or form =<BR>advocate any sort of "final solution" to the Vilani.&nbsp; It merely solves =<BR>the problem of interstellar governance with strict controls on free =<BR>will, controls which its population largely accepts as the only =<BR>"reasonable" solution to the problems facing it. =20<BR><BR>So, how does this influence my characters?&nbsp; My original character, who =<BR>is still alive, was literally a "Yank in Space," a Texan in fact, born =<BR>in Texas City.&nbsp; I now find this background problematic, since I no =<BR>longer believe such characters could originate in the OTU 3500+ years =<BR>from now.&nbsp; Fortunately, I was never very specific about the details of =<BR>his life.&nbsp; I have lately decided that O'Neil is probably a legacy from =<BR>21st Century Terra, one of the few (perhaps the only one) surviving.<BR><BR>He's a relic of late 21st century NorthAm, preserved as a result of the =<BR>combination of anagathics and suspended animation.&nbsp; A "Timer" more or =<BR>less.&nbsp; The problem with this is that he somehow got a new start in the =<BR>3I and attended the IN Academy at Capital according to his previous =<BR>background.&nbsp; Somehow these two threads have to meet.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0219_01C045E6.42145FC0<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =<BR>http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>I originally unwittingly depicted the =<BR>3I as "Yanks=20<BR>in Space" when I started playing in 1981.&amp;nbsp; Over the years after =<BR>seeing more=20<BR>of the world, I came to realize that this was inadequate and inaccurate, =<BR><BR>especially given the underrated influence if the Vilani culture in early =<BR><BR>Traveller canon.&amp;nbsp; My 3I is presently quite alien in =<BR>comparison.&amp;nbsp; It is=20<BR>essentially the Traveller 3I, but theoretically vaster, owing to the =<BR>fact that=20<BR>it has a 3rd dimension.&amp;nbsp; The geometry also incorporates Deneb in =<BR>its actual=20<BR>position and that makes the 3I much, much larger than in canon.&amp;nbsp;=20<BR></FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>The Vilani influence is tremendous in =<BR>the core and=20<BR>is the dominant influence.&amp;nbsp; The 3I takes on the flavor of the =<BR>British=20<BR>Empire&amp;nbsp; as it was when it ruled India, South Africa and ...the =<BR>Dominion of=20<BR>Canada (my model for the Spinward Frontier, with the Marches being East=20<BR>Canada).&amp;nbsp; </FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>The SolCon is under development (with =<BR>Tod Glenn's=20<BR>help!) but resembles the ultra-tech fascist state we have been =<BR>discussing on the=20<BR>list.&amp;nbsp; It is very high TL, particularly, in the soft tech fields,=20<BR>but&amp;nbsp;as in the OTU smaller than the 3I.&amp;nbsp; Like the 3I, it =<BR>consists of=20<BR>semi-autonomous worlds over-governed by the SolCon, which functions like =<BR>the 3I,=20<BR>ruling the space between the systems as well as the uninhabited =<BR>systems.&amp;nbsp;=20<BR>The SolCon is progressing gradually toward&amp;nbsp; a stronger, more benign =<BR><BR>federalized form of fascism.&amp;nbsp; It does not in any way, shape or form =<BR><BR>advocate any sort of "final solution" to the Vilani.&amp;nbsp; It merely =<BR>solves the=20<BR>problem of interstellar governance with strict controls on free will, =<BR>controls=20<BR>which its population largely accepts as the only "reasonable" solution =<BR>to the=20<BR>problems facing it.&amp;nbsp; </FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>So, how does this influence my =<BR>characters?&amp;nbsp; My=20<BR>original character, who is still alive, was literally a "Yank in Space," =<BR>a Texan=20<BR>in fact, born in Texas City.&amp;nbsp; I now find this background =<BR>problematic, since=20<BR>I no longer believe such characters could originate in the OTU 3500+ =<BR>years from=20<BR>now.&amp;nbsp; Fortunately, I was never very specific about the details of =<BR>his life.=20<BR>I have lately decided that O'Neil is probably a legacy from 21st =<BR>Century Terra,=20<BR>one of the few (perhaps the only one) surviving.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>He's a relic of late 21st century =<BR>NorthAm,=20<BR>preserved as a result of the combination of anagathics and suspended=20<BR>animation.&amp;nbsp; A "Timer" more or less.&amp;nbsp; </FONT><FONT face=3DArial ="<BR"><BR>size=3D2&gt;The problem with this is that he somehow got a new start in the =<BR>3I and=20<BR>attended the IN Academy at Capital according to his previous =<BR>background.&amp;nbsp;=20<BR>Somehow these two threads have to meet.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>-Dan Lane</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0219_01C045E6.42145FC0--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3255<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:41:09 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:40:48 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA27001;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 22:40:13 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 3 Nov 2000 22:39:33 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA26944<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 22:39:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 22:39:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011040339.WAA26944@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3255<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3256</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Saturday, November 4 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3256<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR>re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>Re: Swords<BR>Re: Sayat<BR>Re: Traveller books<BR>ADV: Traveller Trader Update<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: Culture<BR>Re: GT Humaniti<BR>Re: GT Humaniti<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>Big guns...<BR>OT: Gaming stores near Cherry Hill / Medford, NJ area?<BR>re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>[BITS] Dragonmeet is coming....<BR>'Confederation Handbook' out.<BR>Re: A late entry...<BR>RE: GT: Humaniti<BR>RE: Views<BR>Re: Pillow Book - the movie<BR>Re: Gaming stores near Cherry Hill / Medford, NJ area?<BR>Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR>The first Challenge<BR>Re: Culture<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:03:34 -0600<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Oh, a question to anybody:&nbsp; I have been seeking inspiration from the T2K<BR>&gt; and 2300AD Vehicle Guides.&nbsp; Sadly, my 2300AD books are in the same abyss as<BR>&gt; my CT Darrians module. Can someone tell me is there a centimetres of steel<BR>&gt; equivalent for the 2300 armour values?&nbsp; If so, what is it?<BR><BR>Y'know, I couldn't find a reference in my Traveller 2300 boxed set, other than<BR>hardened steel is AV 1. If you assume this is the same as T2K (5mm), it *seems*<BR>to work out reasonably well (maybe this was clarified in 2300AD?).<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 23:14:18 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 19:17:47 -0500 (EST), Dominic Mooney<BR>&lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;At 04:29 -0500 2/11/00, "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;We have all complained about the relative lack of adventures for Traveller<BR>&gt;&gt;published since the advent of TNE. The publishers told us, that the market<BR>&gt;&gt;for adventures is smaller than the market for sourceboks, so thats where<BR>&gt;&gt;theyd rather put their money. Understandable, IMHO.<BR><BR>&gt;Not all publishers are the same....<BR><BR>&gt;I direct the interested reader to http://www.bits.org.uk/ and the <BR>&gt;entries on the products pages for 'SpaceDogs' and 'The Khiidkar <BR>&gt;Incident'. There are reviews of both at JTAS and at Freelance <BR>&gt;Traveller.<BR><BR>&gt;BITS' third adventure 'Delta Three is Down' is presently under <BR>&gt;preparation and is planned to be out before Christmas.<BR><BR>&gt;101 Patrons &amp; 101 Plots both provide seeds and resources for referees <BR>&gt;needing a plot.<BR><BR>&gt;If you folks keep on buying them, we'll keep on making them.<BR><BR>Dom, do me a favor: email me a complete list of BITS Traveller products, so<BR>I can be sure that the list at Freelance Traveller is up to date...<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:35:01 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Swords<BR><BR>In a message dated 03-Nov-00 4:45:15 PM Central Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?<BR><BR>Sword Worlders are not being covered in this book.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:39:49 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Sayat<BR><BR>&gt; With Kenji missing presumed harvard, I vote we contribute the Sayat. I guess<BR>&gt;&nbsp; we can come up with the templates.<BR><BR>I don't think the Sayat will make it past the censors . . . but feel free to <BR>try.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:41:25 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller books<BR><BR>&gt; Ok having lurked through several discussions of copyright etc, I am a bit<BR>&gt;&nbsp; cautious about posting this question.&nbsp; First comment, this is just for<BR>&gt;&nbsp; interest's sake, I've no (realistic) intent on doing any of this.&nbsp; I just<BR>&gt;&nbsp; get the feeling I may be opening a real can of worms here.<BR><BR>Marc reads this list, and this is a question he should answer. Ask him <BR>directly.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:46:15 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: ADV: Traveller Trader Update<BR><BR>Just now finished updating The Traveller Trader (<BR>http://www.downport.com/ttt ) with over 200 new items. A little of<BR>everything, including CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, Reprints and even 2300AD. Have<BR>your Christmas list handy when you stop by ;-)<BR><BR>______________________________________<BR>_________The_Traveller_Trader____________<BR>"The place to get that wonderful,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; out-of-print Traveller stuff!"<BR><BR>Colin Michael - ct@downport.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 00:39:01 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/3/00 6:27:51 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>travellerne@3rd-imperium.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;&nbsp; That's<BR>an advantage of pump shotguns--the automatics need a fairly consistent<BR>recoil to reliably work the reloading mechanism. Pump actions don't care<BR>about the recoil, the user actuates the reloading mechanism. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>yeah; but I would rather have the semi-auto over a pump for an afternoon of <BR>clays...It's a LOT easier on the shoulder...:-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 00:17:31 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR>&gt; Dan Lane wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, how does this influence my characters?&nbsp; My original character, who<BR>&gt; is still alive, was literally a "Yank in Space," a Texan in fact, born<BR>&gt; in Texas City.&nbsp; I now find this background problematic, since I no<BR>&gt; longer believe such characters could originate in the OTU 3500+ years<BR>&gt; from now.&nbsp; Fortunately, I was never very specific about the details of<BR>&gt; his life. I have lately decided that O'Neil is probably a legacy from<BR>&gt; 21st Century Terra, one of the few (perhaps the only one) surviving.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; He's a relic of late 21st century NorthAm, preserved as a result of<BR>&gt; the combination of anagathics and suspended animation.&nbsp; A "Timer" more<BR>&gt; or less.&nbsp; The problem with this is that he somehow got a new start in<BR>&gt; the 3I and attended the IN Academy at Capital according to his<BR>&gt; previous background.&nbsp; Somehow these two threads have to meet.<BR><BR>A far simpler solution would be to integrate the Authentic Movement (as<BR>described in GT: Rim of Fire) into your character's background. <BR>Assuming that your character was in his prime during M:1100, he could<BR>easily have been an Authenticist from Terra with access to excellent<BR>source data.&nbsp; Note that, according to GT: RoF, the Authentic Movement<BR>received at least cautious Imperial approval in the Solomani Rim sector<BR>by 1050.<BR><BR>As a native Terran, your character could have access to data from as far<BR>back as the Interstellar Wars era, thus enabling him to Authentically<BR>integrate the ancient Texican cultural paradigm into his life as an<BR>Imperial citizen circa 1100.<BR><BR>Note that this approach allows you plenty of dramatic leeway in your<BR>characterization.... ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 23:21:28 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: GT Humaniti<BR>&gt; &gt; Each submission will address one race. It will give concise accounts of<BR>&gt; &gt; their historical involvement with the Imperium, and will include racial<BR>&gt; &gt; templates. The author should be familiar not only with GURPS Traveller,<BR>&gt; but<BR>&gt; &gt; also the original Classic Traveller source material.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; With Kenji missing presumed harvard, I vote we contribute the Sayat. I guess<BR>&gt; we can come up with the templates.<BR><BR>Yes, I'll second this....<BR><BR>Thou we're gonna have to find some one Lillywhite to translate 'em.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 23:21:59 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; With Kenji missing presumed harvard, I vote we contribute the Sayat. I<BR>&gt; &gt; guess we can come up with the templates.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ian Whitchurch<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;shudder&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I suppose we would have to provide some typical Sayat technology too?<BR><BR>With or Without testing data?<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 23:51:55 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Or vice versa. The Imperium seems at least *somewhat* freer of sexual<BR>&gt; bias than we are.<BR><BR>Well yes it would have too.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:34:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Big guns...<BR><BR>A friend mailed me this. Sounds Like this guy is a founder of Familie<BR>Spofulam...<BR><BR>&gt;"If you drop a cartridge on your foot and it<BR>&gt; doesn't hurt, your gun ain't big enough."<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 03:50:59 EST<BR>From: GhanII@aol.com<BR>Subject: OT: Gaming stores near Cherry Hill / Medford, NJ area?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hello,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sorry for the off topic.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I'm going to Cherry Hill / Medford area in New Jersey next week for a <BR>cousin's wedding next weekend.&nbsp; Does anyone know of any good FLGS / used <BR>bookstores nearby?&nbsp; I may be heading into Philadelphia for a day, so any <BR>suggestions there would be useful, too.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks, <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Doug Snyder<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 18:04:18 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>At 19:17 -0500 2/11/00, "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Not all publishers are the same....<BR>&gt;I know, thats why I really like BITS!<BR><BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;I direct the interested reader to http://www.bits.org.uk/ and the entries<BR>&gt; &gt;on the products pages for 'SpaceDogs' and 'The Khiidkar Incident'. There<BR>&gt; &gt;are reviews of both at JTAS and at Freelance Traveller.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;;-) Guess what Leisure Games just dropped of at my doorstep today ;-)<BR>&gt;(Although the other book i wanted, ACQ, was out of stock with them :-(<BR><BR>;-)&nbsp; They should be able to get more copies of ACQ from Esdevium (the <BR>distributor).<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;BITS' third adventure 'Delta Three is Down' is presently under preparation<BR>&gt; &gt;and is planned to be out before Christmas.<BR>&gt;Cool, so thats another incentive to order ;-)<BR><BR>I'm biased about it because it's the first thing (book sized thing) <BR>I've actually written the whole of so far...<BR><BR>&gt;Dont worry, we will. But I dont see the Challenges as competiton, but<BR>&gt;rather as tools to sharpen ones own skills. Heck, if someone posts really<BR>&gt;good adventures on the list, he might become a potential author of BITS<BR>&gt;supplements... ;-)<BR><BR>I don't see them as competition either, but we are going the opposite <BR>way to most companies in the industry with them (except D&amp;D 3 ...).<BR><BR>BTW we have writers guidelines up on the website (which I can't <BR>access until I get another HDD after mine trashed this w/end).<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:06:13 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [BITS] Dragonmeet is coming....<BR><BR>BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>We'd like to give you here on TML an early warning that we'll be <BR>attending Dragonmeet 2000 in London on 25 November 2000. So, if you'd <BR>like to play some Traveller, massacre the opposition with a Penguin <BR>Launcher in ACQ, say hello, or buy some of the BITS books, come and <BR>see us.<BR><BR>See http://www.dragonmeet.com for more details.<BR><BR>See you there?<BR><BR>Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR><BR><BR>- -----<BR>http://www.bits.org.uk/&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.core.org.uk/<BR>Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved. Used under permission of licence.<BR>BITS, CORE and the associated logos are trademarks of BITS UK Ltd.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:22:15 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: 'Confederation Handbook' out.<BR><BR>I know some of you here like the Peter Hamilton 'Night's Dawn' <BR>Trilogy because we've discussed it before. Personally, I like the <BR>first two books (_The Reality Dysfunction_ and _The Neutronium <BR>Alchemist_)and the excellent short story collection _A Second Chance <BR>at Eden_. but dislike the final book.<BR><BR>Anyway, the universe in some respects is pretty Traveller like with <BR>jump style drives (although this near instant). Ships are either <BR>voidhawks (biotech sentient ships with handwavium drives not unlike <BR>thrusters) or Adamist (fusion drive starships) and the feel is <BR>something like I'd expect in a total rewrite of Traveller to reflect <BR>today's knowledge of computing. A Traveller with nanonics and biotech.<BR><BR>Anyway, _The Confederation Handbook_ has just been released. It's a <BR>230 page guide to the universe, technology and setting for the books. <BR>It's priced at 12.99 GBP and is hardcover (which puts it at the smae <BR>price as a GURPS book here in the UK). I've only read a quarter of it <BR>but I reckon that it could be nearly as useful as a GURPS sourcebook <BR>for background for an RPG.<BR><BR>If you're interested&nbsp; the ISBN is 0-333-78588-6. I got my copy from <BR>the the UK's internet bookshop (now swallowed by WHSmiths) at <BR>http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ who turned it around in two days (I <BR>ordered late the first day). Interestingly, I ended up with a signed <BR>copy which cost the same as the normal one. :-)<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:58:39 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR>At 17:41 -0500 3/11/00, "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;The movie is about a girl who's mother used to read to her from the<BR>&gt;book.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Snipped from IMDB:<BR>&gt;(As a young girl in Japan, Nagiko's father paints characters on her<BR>&gt;face, and her mother reads to her from "The Pillow Book", the diary of a<BR>&gt;10th-century lady-in-waiting. Nagiko grows up, obsessed with books,<BR>&gt;papers, and writing on bodies, and her sexual odyssey (and the creation<BR>&gt;of her own Pillow Book) is a "parfait mlange" of classical Japanese,<BR>&gt;modern Chinese, and Western film images.")<BR><BR>Is that the Peter Greenaway film with Ewan McGregor (Young Obi Wan <BR>Kenobi in Star Wars 1) in?<BR><BR>If so, it was very pretty imagery.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 11:00:27 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: GT: Humaniti<BR><BR>At 17:41 -0500 3/11/00, "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?&nbsp; Or do<BR>&gt; &gt; they not qualify<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;as a "minor race" because they're originally from Terra?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; *ALL* of Humaniti is originally from Terra. So then I assume<BR>&gt; &gt; that you mean<BR>&gt; &gt; "originnally from the Third Imperium"?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Don't swallow SolSec's propaganda!<BR><BR>Hah! Spotted you, you Vilani apologist! That isn't propaganda, that <BR>is a *fact*!<BR><BR>;-)<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 00:41:37 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Jesse DeGraff wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; No, it isn't.&nbsp; Just make a website that only uses HTML2.0<BR>&gt; &gt; It's all you need for a good web site.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But what fun is that?&nbsp; As a web *designer*, you're constantly<BR>&gt; trying to push the envelope to provide a more visceral experience.<BR><BR>I disagree.<BR>As a web designer you should be providing a simple, usable web site.<BR><BR>Visceral experience can be had by jumping of bridges, web-sites are there to<BR>perform useful functions.<BR><BR>Having said that, I'm not against what you're proposing below, I just don't<BR>think that you should be using a web-site as anything other than a gateway<BR>into such an environment.<BR><BR>&gt; Personally, I ultimately want to give people the ultimate<BR>&gt; Traveller experience&nbsp; [note that<BR>&gt; my site does NOT do that right now, it just showcases pictures].&nbsp; I want<BR>&gt; people to get lost in the suspension of disbelief and (once v2 of my Trav<BR>&gt; site is up) come away with the feeling that they've just come back from<BR>&gt; holiday or a biz trip at the Freeport in Patinir / Aramis / Spinward<BR>&gt; Marches.&nbsp; I want people to be *immersed* in my little pocket of the TU.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; want them to come away speechless.&nbsp; If I could, I'd do it with a<BR>&gt; holodeck :)<BR><BR>&gt; However, that technology (or GamePark et al) is not available, so<BR>&gt; I have to settle for the next best I can get.<BR><BR>I fully understand this. Some ten years or more ago I had a similar idea,<BR>and a friend and I started programming. We did the top level of our system,<BR>a three dee navigable star map, and we did a lot of design and discussion<BR>for the rest, but people moved, and things got busy, and now the technology<BR>has advanced so much in those areas that I don't think I could catch up<BR>anymore.<BR><BR>If you haven't already, get hold of "Homeworld" : www.sierrastudios.com.<BR>IMO, this really captures the feel of large scale space operations. It may<BR>not be a perfect sim, but it's a great "experience".<BR><BR>Then, go and look at World Forge&nbsp; : http://www.worldforge.org/ .<BR><BR>&gt; I'll be the first to admit my ignorance.&nbsp; I'm a graphics guy, NOT a<BR>&gt; programmer.&nbsp; Hell, I *still* use MS Front Page to create my website!<BR><BR>Heathen !<BR>Only vi should be used for creating web sites.<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Will HTML2.0 provide the kind of interactivity, audio, movement, etc.,<BR>that I'm<BR>&gt; looking for?<BR><BR>No. But then it's not designd to, and neither will HTML4.01, which is<BR>probably going to be the last version of HTML to be produced. You can tell<BR>that from it's name, Hyper_text_ Markup Language. &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; I'm thinking that ultimately I'll need to learn how to use<BR>&gt; Flash to provide the kind of thing I'm looking for.....<BR><BR>Yep, something like that would do the job.<BR><BR>Personally, I'd recommend VRML (Virtual Reality Markup Language) for what<BR>you're describing, at least as a starting point anyway.<BR><BR>Anyway, don't let me put you off, and I'm happy to try and help out with any<BR>technical questions related to XML/XSL etc, you might have in future.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:47:12 EST<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Pillow Book - the movie<BR><BR>- --part1_52.2d754fc.27358980_boundary<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/3/00 2:45:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20<BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR>&gt;=20<BR>&gt; On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Thing wrote:<BR>&gt;=20<BR>&gt; &gt; On Friday, November 03, 2000 10:16 AM<BR>&gt; &gt; Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>&gt; &gt;=20<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I don't think that movie has anything to do with Shounagon's book.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Shounagon's book is not about sex -- it's about court intrigue.&nbsp; I've<BR>&gt; &gt; not<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; seen the movie, what's it about?<BR>&gt; &gt;=20<BR>&gt; &gt; The movie is about a girl who's mother used to read to her from the<BR>&gt; &gt; book.<BR>&gt; &gt;=20<BR>&gt; &gt; Snipped from IMDB: (As a young girl in Japan, Nagiko's father paints<BR>&gt; &gt; characters on her face, and her mother reads to her from "The Pillow<BR>&gt; &gt; Book", the diary of a 10th-century lady-in-waiting. Nagiko grows up,<BR>&gt; &gt; obsessed with books, papers, and writing on bodies, and her sexual<BR>&gt; &gt; odyssey (and the creation of her own Pillow Book) is a "parfait<BR>&gt; &gt; m=E9lange" of classical Japanese, modern Chinese, and Western film<BR>&gt; &gt; images.")<BR>&gt;=20<BR>&gt; That sounds like a very strange, and interesting-sounding movie.<BR>&gt;=20<BR>Definitely is........and a little twisted at the end..... I'd probably say=20<BR>it's worth watching, if you can put up with making books out of human=20<BR>skin......<BR><BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR><BR><BR>- --part1_52.2d754fc.27358980_boundary<BR>Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR><FONT size=3>In a message dated 11/3/00 2:45:15 PM Pacific Standard=<BR>Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=<BR>LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"&gt;Kiri Aradia Morgan &amp;lt;tiam=<BR>at@tsoft.com&amp;gt;<BR><BR>Subject: Re: A late entry...<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Thing wrote:<BR><BR><BR><BR>&amp;gt; On Friday, November 03, 2000 10:16 AM<BR><BR>&amp;gt; Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR><BR>&amp;gt;=20<BR><BR>&amp;gt; &amp;gt; I don't think that movie has anything to do with Shounagon's b=<BR>ook.<BR><BR>&amp;gt; &amp;gt; Shounagon's book is not about sex -- it's about court intrigue=<BR>. &amp;nbsp;I've<BR><BR>&amp;gt; not<BR><BR>&amp;gt; &amp;gt; seen the movie, what's it about?<BR><BR>&amp;gt;=20<BR><BR>&amp;gt; The movie is about a girl who's mother used to read to her from the<BR><BR>&amp;gt; book.<BR><BR>&amp;gt;=20<BR><BR>&amp;gt; Snipped from IMDB: (As a young girl in Japan, Nagiko's father paint=<BR>s<BR><BR>&amp;gt; characters on her face, and her mother reads to her from "The Pillo=<BR>w<BR><BR>&amp;gt; Book", the diary of a 10th-century lady-in-waiting. Nagiko grows up=<BR>,<BR><BR>&amp;gt; obsessed with books, papers, and writing on bodies, and her sexual<BR><BR>&amp;gt; odyssey (and the creation of her own Pillow Book) is a "parfait<BR><BR>&amp;gt; m=E9lange" of classical Japanese, modern Chinese, and Western film<BR><BR>&amp;gt; images.")<BR><BR><BR><BR>That sounds like a very strange, and interesting-sounding movie.<BR><BR>&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;</FONT><FONT color=#3d0000 size=3 FAMILY='3D"SANSSERI=<BR'>F" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"&gt;<BR><BR>Definitely is........and a little twisted at the end..... I'd probably s=<BR>ay <BR>it's worth watching, if you can put up with making books out of human=<BR><BR>skin......<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT><BR><BR>- --part1_52.2d754fc.27358980_boundary--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 11:10:52 -0500<BR>From: "James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gaming stores near Cherry Hill / Medford, NJ area?<BR><BR>Doug Snyder writes:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hello,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sorry for the off topic.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'm going to Cherry Hill / Medford area in New Jersey next week for<BR>a<BR>&gt; cousin's wedding next weekend.&nbsp; Does anyone know of any good FLGS / used<BR>&gt; bookstores nearby?&nbsp; I may be heading into Philadelphia for a day, so any<BR>&gt; suggestions there would be useful, too.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Doug Snyder<BR><BR>Hey Doug,<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; That's my neck of the woods.&nbsp; As far as gaming shops go, the most<BR>accessible shop from Cherry Hill that springs to mind is Showcase Comics.<BR>It's in Philly at 6th and South.&nbsp; I'm assuming your cousin's been to South<BR>St. at least once in his/her life and should have no trouble finding it.&nbsp; As<BR>the name implies, it's a comic shop but they have a good RPG selection<BR>including GT and, last time I was there, they had some CT reprints.&nbsp; If you<BR>need any more info email me.<BR><BR>Jim Fleming<BR>blackjack@pil.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 12:43:19 +0000<BR>From: John Wood &lt;John@elvw.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR><BR>Alan Bradley &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt; writes,<BR>&gt;Just yesterday I thought of a company that might make a suitable X-TEK<BR>&gt;subsidiary too: Planetex (PlanetX).&nbsp; I was thinking of using it myself<BR>&gt;though, after I checked it out on the Net to make sure it didn't exist in<BR>&gt;the "Real World" (tm).<BR><BR>There is already an X-TEK subsidiary called Planet X Recordings. I am<BR>hoping to use it in _101 Corporations_ (any word on that, William?)<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>John G. Wood&nbsp; |&nbsp; john@elvw.demon.co.uk&nbsp; |&nbsp; Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) tg+ ru ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 19:53:34 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: The first Challenge<BR><BR>As I proposed the idea, Ill kick off the first challenge.<BR><BR>Setting: Pre-FFW Spinward Marches (about 1105ish)<BR>The Players: 4-6 Ex-Military (no Scouts, no Merchants), no personal ship!<BR>The Objective: Get the Players from Rhylanlor to Regina ASAP in an <BR>interesting way (No misjumps).<BR>The Challenge: Include the following events, personae:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; -A meeting with Admiral Santocheev (and make him look bad ;-)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; -A dolphin NPC (and his tale of how he got there ;-)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; -A Zhodani intrigue<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; -A new, unique Ancients encounter/site/secret (not necessarily canon ;-)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; -A speeding ticket.<BR>I think this should be enough, I hope the Challenge will find many willing <BR>candidates ;-)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>The Deadline: 30.11.2000, 23:59 (any time zone)<BR><BR>Remember, this is supposed to become an adventure, not a short story.<BR><BR>Jeff, thanks for the offer of putting up the posted adventures on your <BR>Zine-site.<BR>I think its great, so go right ahead.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 14:57:37 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR>&gt; John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snipsters&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Note that this approach allows you plenty of dramatic leeway in your<BR>characterization.... ;-)<BR><BR>Sounds like I need to get the RoF book to fully understand this, but the<BR>idea sounds quite interesting.<BR><BR>This might work well, on the other hand, perhaps he really is a legacy/relic<BR>and uses this as a sort of "explanation" for his oddity.<BR><BR>I've always known he was deeply involved in J-Drive development and Starship<BR>Construction.&nbsp; IMTU, he was the Admiral in charge of construction of the<BR>Nemesis class experimental cruisers featured in FSotSI.&nbsp;&nbsp; These were also<BR>mentioned in other trav material, but I can't remember where.<BR><BR>From what I know, he has been on anagathics for some time, is hard-bitten,<BR>cynical and was involved in the Santanocheev blow-up at the middle/end of<BR>the 5FW.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3256<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD>11/5/00 1:17:36 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, November 5 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3257<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Big guns...<BR>Re: GT Humaniti<BR>[BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR>re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>Re: The first Challenge<BR>Re: [BITS] Dragonmeet is coming....<BR>Re: Swords<BR>Re: The first Challenge<BR>RE: GT Humaniti<BR>Re: Swords<BR>Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR>Re: The first Challenge<BR>Re: Culture<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: The first Challenge<BR>Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR>Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!<BR>Re: GT Humaniti<BR>Legal aspects of SF technology ( Re: Aspects of Space Opera )<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 15:38:43 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Big guns...<BR><BR>Damn Leonard....I WAS NOT expecting a funny from you...Yes, I did spew!<BR>Chalk up a keyboard bud....I had to clean the screen and everything,<BR>actually had the cup at my mouth and blew a load thru the nose (Damn that<BR>hurts).....LOVE that tagline, it made my tagline file.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"Genuine Antique Person"..been there,done that,can't remember..<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 2:34 AM<BR>Subject: Big guns...<BR><BR><BR>&gt; A friend mailed me this. Sounds Like this guy is a founder of Familie<BR>&gt; Spofulam...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;"If you drop a cartridge on your foot and it<BR>&gt; &gt; doesn't hurt, your gun ain't big enough."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 16:42:59 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:41:12 -0500 (EST), "Katharine Whitchurch" (really<BR>Ian) &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: GT Humaniti<BR>&gt;&gt; Each submission will address one race. It will give concise accounts of<BR>&gt;&gt; their historical involvement with the Imperium, and will include racial<BR>&gt;&gt; templates. The author should be familiar not only with GURPS Traveller, but<BR>&gt;&gt; also the original Classic Traveller source material.<BR><BR>&gt;With Kenji missing presumed harvard, I vote we contribute the Sayat. I guess<BR>&gt;we can come up with the templates.<BR><BR>That's like suggesting that all the Famille Spofulam equipment that's been<BR>posted here be canonized in the next Equipment Sourcebook!<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 22:11:30 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR><BR>BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>Apologies for posting twice on this the same day, but I wasn't able <BR>to find the full details of the UK convention, Dragonmeet 2000, when <BR>I last posted as I have yet to restore my WWW access since my hard <BR>drive failed last weekend.<BR><BR>Anyway, I found the flyer with the Dragonmeet details so here goes....<BR><BR>Date: Saturday 25 November 2000<BR>Time: 10.30 am to 9 pm<BR>Venue: Conway Hall, Red Lion Square, London WC1<BR>Admission: 4 in advance, 5 on the door (student, OAP, unemployed 2.50 / 4)<BR><BR>Events mentioned in brochure -<BR>* RPGs, cards, miniatures, live action....<BR>*Prize Tournaments.<BR>*No Pokemon<BR>*Manufacturer's Demos<BR>*Open Gaming Area<BR>(No Pokemon<BR>*Trade Stands<BR>*Launch events for some new games<BR>*No Pokemon<BR>*Auction of rare items.<BR><BR>Oh yes, I almost forgot, there's no Pokemon. And the flyer mentions <BR>'free stuff for every attendee', but I don't know what that is.<BR><BR>BITS will be there and running the usual bevy of Traveller RPG and <BR>ACQ games. Come and say hello!<BR><BR>Further details can be found at http://www.dragonmeet.com/ or by <BR>emailing info@dragonmeet.com or by phoning 020 7738 8877.<BR><BR>Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR><BR><BR>- -----<BR>http://www.bits.org.uk/&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.core.org.uk/<BR>Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved. Used under permission of licence.<BR>BITS, CORE and the associated logos are trademarks of BITS UK Ltd.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 22:23:44 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>At 15:02 -0500 4/11/00, Traveller-digest wrote:<BR>&gt;Dom, do me a favor: email me a complete list of BITS Traveller products, so<BR>&gt;I can be sure that the list at Freelance Traveller is up to date...<BR><BR>Hi Jeff,<BR><BR><BR>101 Plots<BR>101 Cargos 2nd Edition<BR>101 Patrons<BR>101 Religions<BR>101 Lifeforms<BR>101 Governments<BR>101 Travellers<BR>101 Rendezvous<BR>Adventure: The Khiidkar Incident<BR>Adventure: SpaceDogs<BR>At Close Quarters (ACQ) - Combat rules expansion<BR>The Traveller Bibliography&nbsp; - 2nd Edition<BR>The Periodical Bibliography (contents of the main magazines)<BR><BR>Now Out of Print:<BR>101 Cargos - 1st Edition<BR>The Long Way Home (IG version 'Long Way Home' and 'Gateway' may still <BR>be available)<BR>The Traveller Bibliography (1st Edition)<BR><BR>Free downloads from www.bits.org.uk-<BR>101 Starships for GURPS Traveller<BR>102 Vehicles<BR>Famille Spofulam Winter Catalogue<BR>MayDay M4.1<BR><BR>We do have other material hosted there, but it isn't specifically <BR>prepared by BITS.<BR><BR>Do you want details of Rob Prior's Software which we publish?<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 20:55:36 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The first Challenge<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 6:53 PM<BR>Subject: The first Challenge<BR><BR><BR>As I proposed the idea, Ill kick off the first challenge.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>- -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR>- ---------------------<BR>Well this condition rules out any entry from me...<BR><BR>Unless anyone could give me a potted bio for the said characters...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 21:01:05 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [BITS] Dragonmeet is coming....<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Dominic Mooney" &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Cc: &lt;bits@bits.org.uk&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 10:06 AM<BR>Subject: [BITS] Dragonmeet is coming....<BR><BR><BR>&gt; BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>&gt; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; We'd like to give you here on TML an early warning that we'll be<BR>&gt; attending Dragonmeet 2000 in London on 25 November 2000. So, if you'd<BR>&gt; like to play some Traveller, massacre the opposition with a Penguin<BR>&gt; Launcher in ACQ, say hello, or buy some of the BITS books, come and<BR>&gt; see us.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; See http://www.dragonmeet.com for more details.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; See you there?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR><BR>I'm hoping to be there...<BR><BR>How are people from the North intending to get there and back? Are they<BR>intending to stop over night in the big smoke? I would be interested in<BR>sharing transport/accommodation (and will contribute to the cost!) if<BR>anyone else is...<BR><BR>Matt<BR>Leeds, West Yorks.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 18:44:14 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Swords<BR><BR>&lt;LKW&gt;<BR>&gt; Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?<BR><BR>Sword Worlders are not being covered in this book.<BR>&lt;/LKW&gt;<BR><BR>Alright, but given the arguments raised before, I have to ask why. Are<BR>they going to be covered elsewhere? Have they already been covered<BR>somewhere in GT? I've always liked the SW, I'd like to see them get good<BR>coverage somewhere in there.<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:57:23 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The first Challenge<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR><BR>I'd like to recommend Reverend Green.<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 19:15:27 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Irhadre: GDW Darrians module.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;??? My memory has failed me on this one.&nbsp; Who are they?&nbsp; Anyone got the<BR>&gt;module handy?&nbsp; Mine is hidden in the Pit of Despair.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Alan Bradley<BR>&gt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>Loren I can't believe you'd want anyone but James Maliszewski to do this one<BR>(If he's willing and able.)<BR><BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 18:46:11 -0600<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Swords<BR><BR>Charles Collin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;LKW&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sword Worlders are not being covered in this book.<BR>&gt; &lt;/LKW&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Alright, but given the arguments raised before, I have to ask why. Are<BR>&gt; they going to be covered elsewhere? Have they already been covered<BR>&gt; somewhere in GT? I've always liked the SW, I'd like to see them get good<BR>&gt; coverage somewhere in there.<BR><BR>They were covered rather poorly in GT: Behind the Claw. There was a recent<BR>JTAS article (sorry, I can't remember by who) that had a much more positive<BR>take on them. They also figured heavily (and importantly) in my MT PBEM<BR>campaign, listed on my website (unfortunately, the BTC version is the only<BR>official one in GT).<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:54:50 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR><BR>&gt; From: Brandon Cope <BR>&gt; Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Can someone tell me is there a centimetres of steel<BR>&gt; &gt; equivalent for the 2300 armour values?&nbsp; If so, what is it?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Y'know, I couldn't find a reference in my Traveller 2300 boxed set, other<BR>&gt; than hardened steel is AV 1. If you assume this is the same as T2K (5mm),<BR>it<BR>&gt; *seems* to work out reasonably well (maybe this was clarified in<BR>2300AD?).<BR><BR>Do you have Star Cruiser?&nbsp; I think it may be in there.<BR><BR>Of course I am being lazy now - I probably should go out and move some<BR>boxes around.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I have run into a bit of a snag with the guns on the vehicles I'm building.<BR>Guns (CPR and MD) in Striker get very heavy beyond a certain point.&nbsp; If I<BR>want to match the apparent capabilities of the 2300 guns, I am going to<BR>have to use weapons that weigh as much as the whole vehicles are supposed<BR>to!&nbsp; On the other hand, if I use 6-8 cm Mass Drivers, like the descriptions<BR>of the 2300 vehicles say, the weight is fine, but the penetration of the<BR>guns suck.&nbsp; This is where I need definite armour conversion figures, to see<BR>what the balance between armour and weapons is like.&nbsp; I may have to<BR>downgrade the armour of the better armoured vehicles to maintain parity<BR>with the guns.<BR><BR>Of course, the vehicles I am going to end up with are going to really suck<BR>compared to optimized Striker vehicles.&nbsp; They might be OK as light recce<BR>vehicles though.&nbsp; But even there, the fact that they are not grav will tend<BR>to kill them.&nbsp; Or maybe not - potentially they can move faster than grav<BR>vehicles flying NOE, even if they can't get anywhere near the speed of grav<BR>vehicles flying higher off the ground.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:36:59 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The first Challenge<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" <BR>&gt; As I proposed the idea, Ill kick off the first challenge.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>Yeah, that's suitably twisted.<BR><BR>&gt; I think this should be enough, I hope the Challenge will find many<BR>&gt; willing candidates ;-)<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; The Deadline: 30.11.2000, 23:59 (any time zone)<BR><BR>I'll see if my brain responds.&nbsp; I'll refrain from using Vargr - that would<BR>be too obvious.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:37:31 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Dan Lane" <BR>&gt; IMTU, he was the Admiral in charge of construction of the Nemesis class<BR>&gt; experimental cruisers featured in FSotSI.&nbsp;&nbsp; These were also mentioned in<BR>&gt; other trav material, but I can't remember where.<BR><BR>Regency Sourcebook.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 18:44:06 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>...<BR>&gt;Stats for a 10 round magazine:<BR>&gt;Weight: 4 kg<BR>&gt;Cost: 12 Cr<BR>&gt;Penetration:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; TL 7: 3<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; TL 9: 9<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; TL 11: 12<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; TL 13: 15<BR><BR>&nbsp; What do you use for (18mm) HE stats, and what are the Damage ratings?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:41:17 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; an advantage of pump shotguns--the automatics need a fairly consistent<BR>...<BR>&gt; yeah; but I would rather have the semi-auto over a pump for an afternoon of<BR>&gt; clays...It's a LOT easier on the shoulder...:-)<BR><BR>What kind of person uses HEAP rounds on clays???&nbsp; Hmmm. OK, I probably<BR>would...&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 02:10:32 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The first Challenge<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:57 PM<BR>Subject: Re: The first Challenge<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'd like to recommend Reverend Green.<BR><BR>Ahhh! *Cluedo*...<BR><BR>Definitely Col. Mustard then, suitably disguised as Col. Dijon of course<BR>;-)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 19:59:22 -0800<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>I had the following thought for a game. The characters wake up in some<BR>non-descript surroundings wearing non-descript clothes, but without any<BR>memories of who they are, where they are, and so forth. The obvious<BR>immediate goal is to find out who they are and what's going on. What happens<BR>next depends on the details of the scenario. Varying levels of deviousness<BR>can follow. Megacorporation machinations. Secret Imperial research projects.<BR>Zhodani plots. The usual suspects.<BR><BR>To implement this, the players start with no knowledge of their character<BR>except an incomplete UPP. As play progresses, they learn more about<BR>themselves and their abilities. "As you get into the air/raft, you realize<BR>that you have flown a similar vehicle before. The controls seem familliar<BR>enough for you to fly it. (Make a note of air/raft-2 skill.)"<BR><BR>Has anyone tried this, or a similar concept?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 22:47:46 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>Luther Martin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I had the following thought for a game. The characters wake up in some<BR>&gt; non-descript surroundings wearing non-descript clothes, but without any<BR>&gt; memories of who they are, where they are, and so forth. The obvious<BR>&gt; immediate goal is to find out who they are and what's going on. What happens<BR>&gt; next depends on the details of the scenario. Varying levels of deviousness<BR>&gt; can follow. Megacorporation machinations. Secret Imperial research projects.<BR>&gt; Zhodani plots. The usual suspects.<BR><BR>That's all well and good (although I think that such a scenario would be<BR>most fun if there _was_ no devious plot!).&nbsp; But try _this_ one on for<BR>size:<BR><BR>The characters wake up in a mostly familiar setting.&nbsp; However, nobody<BR>seems to recognize them.&nbsp; They run into lifelong friends (or even<BR>spouses) who have no idea who they are.&nbsp; For even more fun, the<BR>characters can learn (the hard way, of course!) that they have been<BR>"zeroed" from local databases.<BR><BR>The advantage of this kind of paranoid head-trip scenario is that an<BR>ongoing campaign can suddenly shift into this sort of "Twilight Zone."<BR><BR>Recommended source material includes the SF novel _Job: A Comedy of<BR>Justice_, by Robert Heinlein; and the movie "It's a Wonderful Life,"<BR>directed by Frank Capra.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 21:13:50 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>Luther Martin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I had the following thought for a game. The characters wake up in some<BR>&gt; non-descript surroundings wearing non-descript clothes, but without any<BR>&gt; memories of who they are, where they are, and so forth. The obvious<BR>...<BR>&gt; Has anyone tried this, or a similar concept?<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; This has been done in a number of different RPGs (three that I can<BR>recall--one where the whole RPG was based on discovering your<BR>identity).&nbsp; There was even a published Traveller scenario based on<BR>something similar:&nbsp; The characters take a mission that pays well but<BR>requires that they have their memory of the mission erased.&nbsp; They<BR>remember accepting the offer and receiving payment.&nbsp; All is well until<BR>they start finding clues like the ship has eight vacc suits but there<BR>are only seven in the crew...&nbsp; I don't recall the name of the scenario<BR>though.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 23:23:50 -0600<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; From: Brandon Cope<BR>&gt; &gt; Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Can someone tell me is there a centimetres of steel<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; equivalent for the 2300 armour values?&nbsp; If so, what is it?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Y'know, I couldn't find a reference in my Traveller 2300 boxed set, other<BR>&gt; &gt; than hardened steel is AV 1. If you assume this is the same as T2K (5mm),<BR>&gt; it<BR>&gt; &gt; *seems* to work out reasonably well (maybe this was clarified in<BR>&gt; 2300AD?).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Do you have Star Cruiser?&nbsp; I think it may be in there.<BR><BR>No, I only have a few 2300AD books (I made sure the Kaefer Sourcebook was one<BR>of them). I was never very big into mapped-out starship combat.<BR><BR>&gt; Of course, the vehicles I am going to end up with are going to really suck<BR>&gt; compared to optimized Striker vehicles.&nbsp; They might be OK as light recce<BR>&gt; vehicles though.&nbsp; But even there, the fact that they are not grav will tend<BR>&gt; to kill them.&nbsp; Or maybe not - potentially they can move faster than grav<BR>&gt; vehicles flying NOE, even if they can't get anywhere near the speed of grav<BR>&gt; vehicles flying higher off the ground.<BR><BR>The 2300AD AFVs may have intentionally been light, for easier transport from<BR>world to world. Even the two really big tracked tanks are kinda small by<BR>today's standards. It is worth mentioning that there are some who believe that<BR>future AFVs will have to be small and fast to survive, though I don't think the<BR>background or equipment in 2300AD plays to this belief.<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 21:20:35 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!<BR><BR>Hi All,<BR><BR>Just a reminder about this upcoming event.&nbsp; We will be featuring a<BR>"webcast" of sorts for this event.&nbsp; (Well, OK, we'll be using<BR>"Sneaker-Net" and posting pictures from the event every hour or so.) <BR>The pictures will be at:<BR>http://www.3rd-imperium.com/anniversary<BR><BR>If you aren't satisfied seeing the event via web, drop me an email and<BR>get directions to stop by.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>Kristian Miller wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hi All,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The San Jose Traveller Gamers will next meet on November 18 AND 19.<BR>&gt; We will start Saturday at 11:00 a.m. and end Sunday about 4:00 p.m.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Featured Events:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mongo Rebellion/Operation Big Battle (Striker): on the big<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gaming table with the new terrain covering.&nbsp; This<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; may be the final BIG battle.&nbsp; Ming's Internal<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Security Police will be involved; rumors that nukes<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; WILL be thrown; and, maybe even Imperial intervention.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Operation RSSP: Glenn Goffin's MegaTraveller campaign.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Operation Low Tek: Luther Martin's requested Tech Level 5<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Striker game.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; San Jose Traveller Groups One Year Anniversary Barbecue!<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cooking by a renown Vilani chef AND lots of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; cranberry juice.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Location:&nbsp; Kristian Miller's place near I-680 &amp; Highway 101.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Email travellerne@3rd-imperium.com for directions.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For information email:<BR>&gt; travellerne@3rd-imperium.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 18:36:50 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:41:12 -0500 (EST), "Katharine Whitchurch" (really<BR>&gt; Ian) &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: GT Humaniti<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Each submission will address one race. It will give concise accounts of<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; their historical involvement with the Imperium, and will include racial<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; templates. The author should be familiar not only with GURPS Traveller, <BR>&gt; but<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; also the original Classic Traveller source material.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;With Kenji missing presumed harvard, I vote we contribute the Sayat. I guess<BR>&gt;&gt;we can come up with the templates.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's like suggesting that all the Famille Spofulam equipment that's been<BR>&gt; posted here be canonized in the next Equipment Sourcebook!<BR><BR>And this is a problem because? &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 21:20:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Legal aspects of SF technology ( Re: Aspects of Space Opera )<BR><BR>There's an interesting thread going on on rec.arts.sf.science. <BR><BR>I've copied the "root" message below. <BR><BR>We could have some fun with a Traveller version. Of course, Famille<BR>Spofulam will be fighting any restrictions. :-)<BR><BR>[re-mailed to you from rec.arts.sf.science]<BR><BR>jamesbward@aol.com (JamesBWard) writes:<BR><BR>&gt; And another thing in ROTJ - notice that ships that are supposed to<BR>&gt; have shields can have plenty of explosions around them, but these<BR>&gt; don't get through to the hull; but you don't see any shield activity.<BR>&gt; I think it's safe to assume that Star Wars shields don't produce any<BR>&gt; visual effects (except maybe when powered up, ala TPM), which makes<BR>&gt; sense - who says shields *have* to be visible?<BR><BR>The board of product safety , of course.&nbsp; Can't have people run into<BR>invisible shields and sue the empire for megabucks, can we?<BR><BR><BR>"All shields emit an audible buzz not less than 10 decibels and must<BR>be marked with visible light.&nbsp; Lethal shield have to be both marked<BR>with a clear red and have to be covered with an outerlying nonlethal<BR>shield."<BR><BR><BR>Actually, this sounds like a nice thread: What other safeguards would<BR>be placed onto SF technology?<BR><BR>Child safety switches on light sabres. <BR><BR>Warnings on transporter-pods: "Warning! May create multiple instances<BR>of yourself. Please make sure that you have enough money to pay for<BR>both of you." <BR><BR><BR>Any takers?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 01:35:52 -0800<BR>From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; Yes.&nbsp; This has been done in a number of different RPGs (three that I can<BR>&gt; recall--one where the whole RPG was based on discovering your<BR>&gt; identity).&nbsp; There was even a published Traveller scenario based on<BR>&gt; something similar:&nbsp; The characters take a mission that pays well but<BR>&gt; requires that they have their memory of the mission erased.&nbsp; They<BR>&gt; remember accepting the offer and receiving payment.&nbsp; All is well until<BR>&gt; they start finding clues like the ship has eight vacc suits but there<BR>&gt; are only seven in the crew...&nbsp; I don't recall the name of the scenario<BR>&gt; though.<BR><BR>"Memory Alpha," originally a CT tournament scenario, written by Marc Miller.<BR>A T4-ized version was included with the T4 Ref Screen, and the Canon List in<BR>the FFE reprints includes it as part of (the never published) Double<BR>Adventure 7 (with "Exit Visa" from 'The Traveller Book') so presumably it<BR>will show up in that volume of the reprint series.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3257<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, November 5 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3258<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: [BITS] Dragonmeet is coming....<BR>Solomani Confederation<BR>RE: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: SW<BR>Re: Amnesia<BR>2300AD Armor Values (was Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys)<BR>Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR>Re : the Sayat<BR>Re: Contact: The Sayat (II: Society)<BR>RE: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>RE: OT slang query<BR>Re: Amnesia<BR>Mr. Wiseman, could we have a story please?<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:59:20 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [BITS] Dragonmeet is coming....<BR><BR>At 04:15 -0500 5/11/00, "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;How are people from the North intending to get there and back? Are they<BR>&gt;intending to stop over night in the big smoke? I would be interested in<BR>&gt;sharing transport/accommodation (and will contribute to the cost!) if<BR>&gt;anyone else is...<BR><BR><BR>Normally when I go places I hope to get back, but I suppose its a bit <BR>of a lottery the way the celestial powers are trying to wash the <BR>south east away at the moment.. ;-)<BR><BR>I've actually sorted out my accomodation with Andy already, so I'm <BR>afraid I won't be offering to share :-/<BR><BR>I think that is is probably something we should discuss on the <BR>TravellerUK list at eGroups - it's a shame a lot of the UK TMLrs <BR>aren't on it though. It could serve as much use as the TravellerinSF <BR>list does for Doug's merry crew.<BR><BR>&lt;unsubtle hint&gt; Wouldn't it be a good idea for UK TMLrs to join the <BR>TravellerUK list at eGroups!<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 00:31:28 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Solomani Confederation<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Culture<BR>&gt; The SolCon is under development (with Tod Glenn's help!) but resembles =<BR>&gt; the ultra-tech fascist state we have been discussing on the list.&nbsp; It is =<BR>&gt; very high TL, particularly, in the soft tech fields, but as in the OTU =<BR>&gt; smaller than the 3I.&nbsp; Like the 3I, it consists of semi-autonomous worlds =<BR>&gt; over-governed by the SolCon, which functions like the 3I, ruling the =<BR>&gt; space between the systems as well as the uninhabited systems.&nbsp; The =<BR>&gt; SolCon is progressing gradually toward&nbsp; a stronger, more benign =<BR>&gt; federalized form of fascism.&nbsp; It does not in any way, shape or form =<BR>&gt; advocate any sort of "final solution" to the Vilani.&nbsp; It merely solves =<BR>&gt; the problem of interstellar governance with strict controls on free =<BR>&gt; will, controls which its population largely accepts as the only =<BR>&gt; "reasonable" solution to the problems facing it. =20<BR><BR>I'd recommend that anyone thinking deeply on the Solomani (and I've been<BR>enjoying Dan Lane's and Tod Glenn's stuff a lot) gets hold of a copy of<BR>Kruschev's Secret Speech - his denunciation on Stalin to the Communist Party<BR>convention in 1956 (a copy got leaked to the West by a dedicated Stalinist,<BR>the Polish Ambassador to the USSR).<BR><BR>It should be available on the web (check Gutenberg), and it gives an<BR>excellent perspective on the downsides of authoritarianism.<BR><BR>I think it was also Kruschev's single best career move. When he was fired<BR>from his job of General Secretary, he got a new job running a minor<BR>hydroelecric plant in Siberia. As this veteran of the Terror and the Purges,<BR>who liquidated the CPSU in Moscow on Stalin's orders, said to his wife "I<BR>dont believe it. They got rid of me by voting".<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:07:20 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>Now that would be cool...proximity fused HE shotgun rounds for bird<BR>hunting...not too much bird left, but hell, it would increase your kill<BR>ratio. Your buddies at the trap range would be impressed too...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kristian Miller<BR>Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 7:41 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR><BR>Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; an advantage of pump shotguns--the automatics need a fairly consistent<BR>...<BR>&gt; yeah; but I would rather have the semi-auto over a pump for an afternoon<BR>of<BR>&gt; clays...It's a LOT easier on the shoulder...:-)<BR><BR>What kind of person uses HEAP rounds on clays???&nbsp; Hmmm. OK, I probably<BR>would...&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 11:53:38 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: SW<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;LKW&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Sword Worlders are not being covered in this book.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &lt;/LKW&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Alright, but given the arguments raised before, I have to ask why.<BR><BR>I did not consider them a suitable subject -- they are a cultural offshoot, <BR>not a real minor race.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 11:58:17 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia<BR><BR>&gt; From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>We (GDW) were going to do something like this once. The group is offered a <BR>job for a huge pile of money, but physicals are required forst. During the <BR>physical, they are given an injection and fall asleep. When they wake up, <BR>it's 3 months later, they are on a different world (with all their <BR>possessions intact) and a swollen bank account but no memory of the past 90 <BR>days. <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>And they get the impression they are being followed.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:05:28 -0800<BR>From: "T. Kuchta" &lt;tkuchta@desertlinc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: 2300AD Armor Values (was Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys)<BR><BR>Brandon Cope replied:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Oh, a question to anybody:&nbsp; I have been seeking inspiration from the T2K<BR>&gt; &gt; and 2300AD Vehicle Guides.&nbsp; Sadly, my 2300AD books are in the same abyss<BR>as<BR>&gt; &gt; my CT Darrians module. Can someone tell me is there a centimetres of<BR>steel<BR>&gt; &gt; equivalent for the 2300 armour values?&nbsp; If so, what is it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Y'know, I couldn't find a reference in my Traveller 2300 boxed set, other<BR>than<BR>&gt; hardened steel is AV 1. If you assume this is the same as T2K (5mm), it<BR>*seems*<BR>&gt; to work out reasonably well (maybe this was clarified in 2300AD?).<BR><BR>You should check out a now defunct 2300AD fan site by Andy Brick at:<BR><BR>http://www.caco.demon.co.uk/<BR><BR>He started something called the 2300 Technical Architecture. Step 2 -<BR>Materials has a listing of various armor types and values. Note that some<BR>are derived and this is not all entirely canon.<BR><BR><BR><BR>"After all, we are a nation in all but name."<BR>- -- Robert Foxx, CAO Foxx Industries, 2204, upon the decision to create the<BR>Independent Military Services (IMS) unit.<BR><BR>Visit the 2300AD site of Foxx Industries at:<BR>http://www.desertlinc.net/~tkuchta/index.htm<BR><BR>Terry Kuchta<BR>tkuchta@desertlinc.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 12:48:18 -0600<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; From: Brandon Cope<BR>&gt; &gt; Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Can someone tell me is there a centimetres of steel<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; equivalent for the 2300 armour values?&nbsp; If so, what is it?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Y'know, I couldn't find a reference in my Traveller 2300 boxed set, other<BR>&gt; &gt; than hardened steel is AV 1. If you assume this is the same as T2K (5mm),<BR>&gt; it<BR>&gt; &gt; *seems* to work out reasonably well (maybe this was clarified in<BR>&gt; 2300AD?).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have run into a bit of a snag with the guns on the vehicles I'm building.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Guns (CPR and MD) in Striker get very heavy beyond a certain point.&nbsp; If I<BR>&gt; want to match the apparent capabilities of the 2300 guns, I am going to<BR>&gt; have to use weapons that weigh as much as the whole vehicles are supposed<BR>&gt; to!&nbsp; On the other hand, if I use 6-8 cm Mass Drivers, like the descriptions<BR>&gt; of the 2300 vehicles say, the weight is fine, but the penetration of the<BR>&gt; guns suck.&nbsp; This is where I need definite armour conversion figures, to see<BR>&gt; what the balance between armour and weapons is like.&nbsp; I may have to<BR>&gt; downgrade the armour of the better armoured vehicles to maintain parity<BR>&gt; with the guns.<BR><BR>Last night I went back and did some comparisons between 2300AD and GURPS, and<BR>it looks like AV 1 = 10mm hardened steel may be a better fit. In GURPS terms,<BR>this gives the French AC-8 a frontal DR of around 2200 and it's main gun doing<BR>something like 6dx35(3) damage -- not entirely unreasonable for an obsolecent<BR>hovertank and a short-barreled MD.<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 06:49:34 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : the Sayat<BR><BR>&gt; From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Sayat<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; With Kenji missing presumed harvard, I vote we contribute the Sayat. I<BR>guess<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; we can come up with the templates.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't think the Sayat will make it past the censors . . . but feel free<BR>to<BR>&gt; try.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; LKW<BR><BR>Loren : So if we can get it past the censors, you will put it into<BR>GT:Humaniti , right ? Do we have a deal ?<BR><BR>Everyone else : Last I looked, the Sayat web page was 404 Not Found. Did<BR>anyone download a copy ? If they didnt, we're going to have to reconstuct<BR>them from any of the lost and tangled records, and what we remember ...<BR>cool, huh :)<BR><BR>This is the leader (and is Roderick Elliot's stuff - it's the leader to the<BR>writeup for the J-class racing yacht)<BR><BR>Excerpted from Imperial Yachting Digest, IY 012-032<BR><BR>"So how was your extended sabbatical in the Sayat Concourse?", I asked<BR>Hengabar Spofulam, accepting the tall glass of murky red fluid from Famille<BR>Spofulam's dreadlocked hereditary Patriarch and CEO.<BR><BR>"Marvelous!" he replied, swallowing a mouthful of his drink.&nbsp; "Fascinating<BR>culture, a real flair for ritual, and wonderful cuisine, too.&nbsp; Take this<BR>for&nbsp; example" he said, hoisting his glass.&nbsp; "Verthig blood, spiked with<BR>herb-flavoured ethanol and some local garnishes.&nbsp; Tasty, and very<BR>nutritious.&nbsp; Don't worry; they're not sentient.&nbsp; The Sayat love this stuff.<BR>Drink it all the time.&nbsp; They drink enough of it, some of them start<BR>forgetting they're parthenogenetic and you're the only male they've ever<BR>seen.&nbsp; Another thing I picked up are the shades", he added, pointing to the<BR>dark glasses he wore "Sayat are big on shades..."<BR><BR>Our next data point is the Sayat entry for the ISBA's Subsidised Merchant.<BR>After extensive use of machine translators, the Request For Tender came out<BR>as a demand for a highly stealthed Bioscience Research Frigate. It is to the<BR>eternal shame of the ISBA that they voted (by a 2-1 margin) to refuse the<BR>entry.<BR><BR>What I can remember from the web page ...<BR><BR>The Sayat hate and fear the 'Precursors' - evil winged aliens from space who<BR>held their planet in bondage, until skilled Sayat hunters forced them<BR>off-planet. The precursors are associated with bright lights.<BR><BR>The Sayat cultural group includes the Slimies and some ?machine<BR>intelligences?.<BR><BR>They are heavily into superstition and numerology.<BR><BR>Only mothers may work on Fusion power plants.<BR><BR>Their technology concentrates on ceramics, x-ray lasers and battery<BR>technologies. Their power plants are less advanced than those of the early<BR>3I, although their MHD power plants arent bad.<BR><BR>They have very limited parenting instincts. Basically, the little tykes look<BR>after themselves, with help from machines and such. Once they are old enough<BR>and useful enough, the tykes latch onto a collective. Until then, let em<BR>look after themselves.<BR><BR>Their social structure is based on self-governing collectives. They do use<BR>'money', but more of their 'economy' is based on customary rights, duties<BR>and obligations.<BR><BR>One of the collectives are Say-BOOM. I also think they have Say-VROOM,<BR>which does MHD-powered vehicles. FS has a close and useful relationship with<BR>both.<BR><BR>The Sayat invented the Weasel Gun and the Pelvic-mounted Plasma Pistol. They<BR>also made a pretty decent laser hunting rifle.<BR><BR>The Sayat homeworld is cold, with long winters. The Sayat's culturally<BR>appropriate recreations tend to be those that can help people deal with<BR>long, boring winters indoors. I think that and scattered references to their<BR>'highly specialised pharmaceuticals' should give a big enough hint.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 14:20:59 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Contact: The Sayat (II: Society)<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>This message is a repost of one sent on Thu May 08 at 23:01:00 <BR>by&nbsp; kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz). <BR><BR>I don't seem to have post one, but here is a copy of post two.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Here's yet more Sayatiana, freshly coughed up and transcribed.&nbsp; As before,<BR>comments are most welcome.&nbsp; Hell, it's *for* the comments that I'm posting<BR>all this junk.<BR>*****************************************<BR><BR>WORLD BUILDERS' HANDBOOK DESCRIPTION<BR>Social Outlook:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Progressiveness: Progressive attitude, advancing activity<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Agressiveness:&nbsp;&nbsp; Defensive attitude, militant activity<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Extensiveness:&nbsp;&nbsp; Harmonious attitude, friendly activity<BR><BR>Legal Profile:&nbsp; Undivided uniformity<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Overall :&nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Personal Freedom:&nbsp; 5<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Weapons :&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Trade:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Criminal:&nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Civil:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 9<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Somewhat xenophobic; effective +1 law level for foreigners<BR><BR>Cultural Aspects:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Individuality:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Some compulsory collective action<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Social Mobility:&nbsp; &nbsp; Minimal distinctions of social class<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Phys. Mobility:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Global travel common; "global village" communications<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Worldview:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Primarily rational, with some holdovers of superstition<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Emotionalism:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Free expression except in front of strangers<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Gender Discrimination:&nbsp; n/a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wealth:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Acquired by law; equal incomes<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Privacy:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Actions open to scrutiny at will by certain agencies<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Modesty/Body Zone:&nbsp; Moderate coverage mandatory (body zone almost touching)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Value of Sentient Life: Death penalty outlawed<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Value of Other Life:&nbsp; All is for human use, but should be humanely treated<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Child-Rearing:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Group responsibility (commune)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Honesty:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Widely accepted ethical code; offenders despised<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Work Ethic:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Work is an end in itself, a source of pleasure<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Time:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Schedules are flexible<BR><BR>Government Authority:&nbsp;&nbsp; Civil Service Bureaucracy; several councils (all<BR>branches).<BR><BR>*********************************<BR><BR>Sayat social structure and social philosophy are uncannily similar to Hiver<BR>patterns, giving rise to the theory (and widespread popular belief) that<BR>they are the product of a large-scale Hiver "manipulation."<BR><BR>STRUCTURE:<BR>Like the Hiver, individuals live in 'nests' sharing a broad focus of<BR>economic activity or interest (usually), and in which wealth and belongings<BR>are owned communally.&nbsp; The nest is the basic unit of society, rather than<BR>the family (nuclear or otherwise).&nbsp; It is true that in some respects the<BR>nest is similar to the extended family in other human societies, and it is<BR>likely that in earlier times, the 'nest' bore more resemblence to a 'clan,'<BR>with its emphasis on consanguity and shared descent.<BR><BR>Most nests are part of larger 'hives,' the rough equivalents of cities,<BR>corporations, or nations.&nbsp; Governmental structures (both civilian and<BR>military) are also considered nests and hives, and are not particularly<BR>distinguished from other specialized units.<BR><BR>Mobility among nests (and to a slightly lesser extent, hives) is quite high<BR>in the modern era.&nbsp; Most Sayat change their nest affiliation after reaching<BR>maturity and having finished the mandatory stint of 'national service;'<BR>many go on to switch affiliation several times in the course of their life.<BR>Individuals may also live and work separately from their primary nest<BR>affiliation for extended periods of time.<BR><BR>While there are some who shift from nest to nest, sometimes even having<BR>concurrent membership in several, there are no Sayat who are 'nestless'.<BR>Occasionally someone will claim to be without a nest affiliation; other<BR>Sayat, however, will not recognize this claim, and go on treating such an<BR>individual (who is probably mentally ill) as a member of the appropriate<BR>nest and hive.&nbsp; The nest-hive structure of society is so fundamental to<BR>Sayat culture that someone who is not part of it is, almost by definition,<BR>not Sayat -- and possibly a menace to the common good.<BR><BR>GOVERNMENT:<BR>This is best described as a 'civil service bureaucracy'.&nbsp; There is a single<BR>large hive which can be called 'the Government,' which fulfills all the<BR>functions of the 'state' in other human societies, as well as playing many<BR>additional roles.&nbsp; The 'Government Hive' is made up of a large number of<BR>smaller, specialized nests, each one focused on a particular aspect or<BR>function of managing society and furthering the advance of civilization.<BR>This hive acts as the chief mechanism for redistributing capital within the<BR>economy; it "taxes" other hives and after using this wealth to support its<BR>own activities, "invests" or "subsidizes" those of others.&nbsp; Large amounts<BR>of public work is handled by "subcontracting" in this manner, and the line<BR>between "public" and "private" endeavours is often so blurry as to be not<BR>worth examining.<BR><BR>Forcing Sayat political systems into our own molds, one can view this hive<BR>as the executive branch of government; it also has a great deal of what we<BR>might call legislative and judicial authority.&nbsp; However, the legislative<BR>branch is supplemented by frequent recourse to public debate and referenda<BR>- -- and given the indistinctness of the public versus private spheres,<BR>legislation is highly sensitive to the groundswell or undercurrent of<BR>popular opinion.<BR><BR>The judicial powers and duties of the state work in tandem with the<BR>'judges' or 'mediators' -- private individuals who, based on their<BR>expertise in law and rhetoric, can be called in (or may independently<BR>intercede) to settle conflict between individuals or groups in society.<BR>While these 'judges' are entirely separate from the governmental structure<BR>proper, and do not form specialized 'judicial nests' of their own, they<BR>maintain fairly tight professional links with one another, and can be<BR>considered a sort of parallel political agency, largely free of state<BR>oversight.<BR><BR>ECONOMY AND BUSINESS:<BR>The modern Sayat economy grew out of a communal, redistributive economy,<BR>where the fundamental socioeconomic unit was the 'proto-nest' or (putative)<BR>'clan.'&nbsp; Claims to territory (grazing circuits, hunting territories,<BR>fishing grounds) and the ownership of livestock and enclosures were all<BR>held by the community as a whole, rather than individuals or families.<BR>With technological advances and the&nbsp; development of a global culture, the<BR>precursors of the 'hive' arose to coordinate the more complex interactions,<BR>and something best described as a 'command economy' resulted.&nbsp; Sayat<BR>economic thought has only vague, crude ideas of a 'free market', though<BR>recent contact with other civilizations is slowly beginning to produce<BR>changes in the way they see their economy.<BR><BR>Property and capital is still owned communally, by the nests and hives.<BR>While individual Sayat do have personal belongings and limited amounts of<BR>wealth, their daily needs (food, housing, clothing, transportation, medical<BR>care, power, communications, etc.) are all furnished by the collective.<BR>Long-term projects and investments are undertaken entirely by groups, and<BR>not by individuals.&nbsp; Individuals who are in some way 'over-achievers,' who<BR>are a particular asset to their collective, do get many perks (prime<BR>housing, use of personal vehicles, servants, access to a bigger 'credit<BR>line' and more 'pocket money,' etc.) but have no more inalienable, personal<BR>property than anyone else.&nbsp; Those on the opposite end of the truncated<BR>Sayat social ladder will get stuck with less desireable housing and find<BR>their hive or nest somewhat less willing to pay for their luxuries.<BR><BR>The Sayat were slow in developing a monetary economy; it arose entirely out<BR>of the need to coordinate the activities of independent, hive-sized<BR>collectives in the early modern period.&nbsp; Even today, within a large hive<BR>there is very little exchange carried out with money (either cash or<BR>electronic); most is done by a complicated system of barter and contract,<BR>if need for accounting is perceived at all.&nbsp; Much is done essentially<BR>gratis, 'for the common good.'&nbsp; Within nests, what few transactions take<BR>place are entirely non-monetary.<BR><BR>Various nests and hives are heavily involved in specific industries or<BR>economic activities.&nbsp; Through de facto monopolies and de jure agreements<BR>with the state, many have quasi-governmental authority in their fields of<BR>interest.&nbsp; Any enterprise that is necessary to a significant part of the<BR>population, or is important to them, is certain to be run as a 'public<BR>utility' through some combination of direct governmental control and<BR>'subcontracted' responsibility.&nbsp; Again, the public-private distinction is<BR>fuzzy; the Sayat are not familiar with the concept, in any case.<BR><BR>CHILD-REARING is one aspect of society that differs from the Hiver model,<BR>obviously.&nbsp; While the Sayat are highly K-selected (even more than most<BR>human subspecies), the Hiver are completely the opposite.<BR><BR>Each Sayat nest has a communal nursery and school in which all children<BR>live, are raised, and are educated.&nbsp; Professional caretakers and teachers<BR>do most of the work, but the nest as a whole is constantly and deeply<BR>involved in the child-rearing process -- a Hiver-like "parental instinct"<BR>has largely replaced the human "reproductive instinct."&nbsp; The parent-child<BR>bond is very weak; it is considered a sign of neurosis (at least) for<BR>parents to be possessive or even partial towards their "own" children --<BR>and, vice versa, for children to fixate on their mothers.&nbsp; Rather, adults<BR>exhibit a generalized pride and possessive attitude towards the sum of the<BR>children of their nest and hive.<BR><BR>In larger hives, the component nests often do not maintain their own<BR>nurseries, but there are commonly-shared nurseries for the use of all nests<BR>in a given district or neighborhood.&nbsp; In modern times, the government has<BR>stepped in to regulate child care and education, so as to ensure<BR>standardization of the culture and knowledge imparted.<BR><BR>Infants are not considered "pests" as among the Hiver, but the Sayat do<BR>lack much of the sentimentality of most other human societies toward<BR>children and childhood.&nbsp; For example, in dire emergencies where only some<BR>portion of a group can be saved, the Sayat will gladly sacrifice children<BR>- -- the youngest ones first -- while concentrating on rescuing adults and<BR>the elderly.&nbsp; The Sayat consider that less has been 'invested' in the<BR>young, and being easier to replace than their elders, they are more<BR>disposable.<BR><BR>SEX:&nbsp; This one I leave to the readers' surely fertile imaginations.<BR>"Unusually long fingers" and "mechanical assistance" has already been<BR>introduced; 'muff said.&nbsp; A couple general thoughts, though.<BR><BR>Due to Sayat biology, there's no connection between having sex and having<BR>babies.&nbsp; The first is a matter of entertainment and social bonding with<BR>other adult individuals; the latter, of bonding to your nest, of<BR>contributing to posterity.<BR><BR>Sayat feel strongly that children belong with other children, under the<BR>supervision and care of the nest's nursery/school system, so childbearing<BR>and rearing is far less of a burden on individual parents than in most<BR>other human societies.<BR><BR>Pair-bonding does occur among Sayat, but such 'mated' individuals are not<BR>especially likely to have children with one another (rather than with<BR>anyone else), nor are they expected to; even sexual activity is not a<BR>given, for that matter.&nbsp; There are innumerable other forms of 'personal<BR>relationships'; it is hard to make any generalizations on the matter, for<BR>the reason that the Sayat simply don't attach much importance to such<BR>matters.&nbsp; The key emotional bond for a Sayat is with her nest (and by<BR>extension her hive); colleagues, friends, coworkers,&nbsp; and lovers are not<BR>the less important, but viewed as more transitory, casual, and open to<BR>consideratiosn of expediency.<BR><BR>CULTURAL POLICY:<BR>Like the Hiver, they seek to ensure linguistic and cultural homogeneity: a<BR>broad, fundamental body of shared assumptions, knowledge, and attitudes.<BR>The Sayat regard this as the only possible basis for individuality and<BR>personal freedom -- it provides a common ground for communication,<BR>throughout all of Sayat society, without distinctions of region, social<BR>status, economic power, or the like.&nbsp; To this end, travel and mass<BR>communication are widely encouraged and subsidized by Sayat hives and<BR>nests, particularly the governmental ones.&nbsp; Something very similar to Hiver<BR>"embassies" are found in the form of exchanges, delegations, conferences,<BR>tour groups and the like; the emphasis on exchanging genetic material is<BR>much muted and less conscious, though not entirely absent.<BR><BR>EDUCATION:<BR>The Sayat place an enormous amount of importance on education.&nbsp; The<BR>'nurseries' bear more resemblance to boarding schools; formal teaching<BR>begins at age four, and children are not released from the custodianship of<BR>the nursery until their fifteenth year.&nbsp; For historical reasons, the Sayat<BR>are fairly militaristic, and two years of (ground) military training is<BR>mandatory at this point, followed by another two years of service in the<BR>ground forces, further training in the space forces, or work and education<BR>in some field of 'social importance' -- medicine, disaster readiness,<BR>construction, law enforcement, agriculture and ranching, ditch-digging, or<BR>anything else.&nbsp; Advanced education is then an option which many Sayat take.<BR>Many continue involvement in formal educational programs for decades, as<BR>continuing or returning students.<BR><BR>Numerous specialized schools, institutes, academies, and research centers<BR>exist, again set up on the nest-hive model.&nbsp; At the post-secondary level,<BR>there is generally little formal distinction between "research" and<BR>"teaching;" much of the work at such institutions involves mentoring<BR>arrangements, somewhat similar to apprenticeships.&nbsp; The casual student will<BR>keep her own nest/hive affiliation while attending, and the dedicated<BR>scholar will join the nest/hive as a new member.<BR><BR>PSIONICS:<BR>Despite the prevalence of superstition in the culture, psionics have never<BR>been considered as anything other than phenomena subject to rational,<BR>scientific investigation and application.&nbsp; While psionics do not determine<BR>social status as among the Zhodani (or even Vlazhdumecta), psionic testing<BR>is given to all children, and those who have such talents are given the<BR>necessary training and education to develop and use it.&nbsp; They then go on to<BR>take up roles in society where their talents will be of use -- psychology,<BR>investigation, hazardous materials handling, search and rescue, etc.&nbsp; There<BR>is no particular fear or reverence shown to psionics in society.&nbsp; The<BR>number of psionically-talented individuals is perhaps slightly higher than<BR>among "normal" human populations, but not greatly so, and this may be a<BR>function of careful testing being able to catch a greater number of natural<BR>talents.<BR><BR>DEMOGRAPHICS:<BR>Like the Hiver, Sayat prefer to live in large, compact urban complexes.<BR>Single-building city-arcologies are unknown, but urban buildings do tend to<BR>be enormous and multi-use.&nbsp; The distribution of population among the cities<BR>is fairly even; there is no clear "megapolis" or "main city" on the planet.<BR><BR><BR>Six large cities (with populations between 20 and 60 million) are present<BR>on the surface of Marhach; an additional 35-40 smaller cities, each with<BR>several million inhabitants, are scattered around the planet.&nbsp; There are<BR>relatively few small cities and towns; less than 9% of the planet's<BR>population lives in such settlements.<BR><BR>However, it is customary to maintain rural cottages, resort villages,<BR>camps, dachas, spas, and the like, either individually or as a group; one's<BR>time is often split between "city" and "country" in this way, depending on<BR>the season, work necessities, and personal preference.&nbsp; For all but a<BR>handful of modern Sayat, one's primary affiliation is considered to be with<BR>the city, rather than the country.<BR><BR>Although farming and ranching are considerably more land-extensive than<BR>among the Hiver, there are still large expanses of "wilderness" territory<BR>on the planet.&nbsp; Small numbers of Sayat continue to live the traditional,<BR>nomadic pastoralist lifestyle.&nbsp; In all, no more than 1% of the planetary<BR>population can be considered rural.<BR><BR>*********************<BR>Kenji Schwarz<BR>kenji@accessone.com<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------<BR>-- End of reposted message<BR>- -----------------------------------------------<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 14:27:53 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>On 11/05/00 at 10:07 AM,&nbsp; "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Now that would be cool...proximity fused HE shotgun rounds for bird<BR>&gt;hunting...not too much bird left, but hell, it would increase your<BR>&gt;kill ratio. Your buddies at the trap range would be impressed<BR>&gt;too...<BR><BR>Pop one of those into a flight of ducks and you'd take the whole flock out. &lt;g&gt; Not much sport, but might be useful for food hunting.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 14:46:06 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: OT slang query<BR><BR>On 10/30/00 at 11:42 AM,&nbsp; Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;A 'Jones' is an addiction, craving or need.<BR><BR>&gt;"I got a basketball jones, a basketball jones, I got a basketball<BR>&gt;jones oooh oooh eee ohhh!"<BR><BR>"Me and Mrs. Jones, we got a thing going on..." -- Counting Crows<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 21:42:59 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia<BR><BR>At 11:58 05.11.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;We (GDW) were going to do something like this once. The group is offered a<BR>&gt;job for a huge pile of money, but physicals are required forst. During the<BR>&gt;physical, they are given an injection and fall asleep. When they wake up,<BR>&gt;it's 3 months later, they are on a different world (with all their<BR>&gt;possessions intact) and a swollen bank account but no memory of the past 90<BR>&gt;days.<BR>&gt;And they get the impression they are being followed.<BR><BR><BR>Hmm, didnt you say you had changed your job description with SJG to get <BR>more time to write?<BR>This would be an adventure Id love to see sometime soon ...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:45:03 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Mr. Wiseman, could we have a story please?<BR><BR>Loren,<BR><BR>Over on the Fudge list, they are talking about the time you once got <BR>a letter from Palladium saying they had trademarked the term "recon" <BR>and GDW should refrain from using it. Apparently your reply was <BR>memorable. Unfortunately, no one actually remembers it, except the <BR>U.S. Marines' 1st Reconnaissance Battalion was involved.<BR><BR>So, how about a story? Please 8^)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 16:15:29 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>On 11/04/00 at 07:59 PM,&nbsp; "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;To implement this, the players start with no knowledge of their<BR>&gt;character except an incomplete UPP. As play progresses, they learn<BR>&gt;more about themselves and their abilities. "As you get into the<BR>&gt;air/raft, you realize that you have flown a similar vehicle before.<BR>&gt;The controls seem familliar enough for you to fly it. (Make a note<BR>&gt;of air/raft-2 skill.)"<BR><BR>&gt;Has anyone tried this, or a similar concept?<BR><BR>Yes, I have many, many years ago.&nbsp; My FTF group broke up 3 sessions<BR>into the Amnesia Campaign I had planned for them...much to my<BR>dismay, and I've been bummed out about it for the last 15 years.<BR><BR>The setup, in brief....the PC's are automatically awaken from low<BR>berths aboard an almost dead ship.&nbsp; Several other low berths in the<BR>ward they are in have failed, or fail when they attempt to wake<BR>their occupants.&nbsp; The PC's awake naked and disoriented.&nbsp; They don't<BR>remember where they are, their names, or their backgrounds.&nbsp; Each of<BR>them have evidence of healed injuries...scars and such.&nbsp; <BR><BR>At the foot of each low berth has a small shelf where there are<BR>neatly folded jumpsuits and ship shoes covered in dust.&nbsp; There are<BR>names on the jumpsuits, and they...more or less...fit them, so the<BR>PC's *assume* that the names on the jumpsuits are their names.<BR><BR>As the PC's begin to explore they begin to remember little bits of<BR>things.&nbsp; All of them feel familiar with being on spaceships, for<BR>example, but until they *look* at or *try* something they don't know<BR>if they know about that thing or not.<BR><BR>The PC's discover that the ship's crew is dead, mummified remains<BR>found here and there on the ship, or missing.&nbsp; The ship is drifting<BR>in stable orbit around a gas giant inside of a fairly dense ring<BR>system.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Power is almost exhausted, that's why the computer attempted to<BR>awake the occupants of the low berths, and one of the PCs realizes<BR>that they will have to evacuate, or refuel, this ship within a few<BR>days or the fuel for the power plant will be exhausted and they will<BR>die.<BR><BR>Another one of them realizes that she could call for help on the<BR>radio and tries to use it.&nbsp; She discovers that this appears to be an<BR>unoccupied system, as she can't pick up any radio traffic, but she<BR>finds that she can also use the sensors.&nbsp; She finds no ship traffic,<BR>but she does find a planet within the habitable zone of the system.<BR>She wants to send out a distress call, but one of the PCs is<BR>adamantly opposed...can't explain why, just is.<BR><BR>A third PC starts to tinker with the ship's controls and discovers<BR>he can pilot it.&nbsp; Unfortunately, he also discovers that the jump<BR>drive is damaged and there isn't enough maneuver fuel to fly the<BR>ship anywhere.&nbsp; Then he tries to figure out where they are, can't<BR>get the answer from the computer...the logs are gone..., but<BR>discovers that he can check the star charts against the star fields<BR>to get a match.&nbsp; It should work, and he gets a partial match, but<BR>the system it matches with is a high tech one that should be teeming<BR>with ship traffic.&nbsp; It's only a partial match, though, so he can't<BR>be sure where they are.<BR><BR>The fourth PC has been feeling particularly strange since being<BR>awakened, like he's missing something that he just *has* to have.<BR>He is convinced that there is some enemy out there that out to kill<BR>them all.&nbsp; The others think he's paranoid, but he's convinced that<BR>they are in mortal danger from some enemy he can't name.&nbsp; He was the<BR>one that argued agaisnt sending a distress call.&nbsp; He feels *much*<BR>better when he finds the ship's armory, then becomes very frustrated<BR>when he can't get the door open, and while the others are doing<BR>their things, he is looking for a weapon better than the galley<BR>knife he picked up, and a way to get that armory door open.<BR><BR>That was the first session. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3258<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2]) by air-yg05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:17:11 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:16:52 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA34453;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:16:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:15:44 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA34399<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:15:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:15:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011052215.RAA34399@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3258<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3259</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/5/00 7:35:34 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, November 5 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3259<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Traveller Books<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: the Sayat<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Copyright issues (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250)<BR>Re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR>Re: ARL (Was HEAP Shotgun Rounds)<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>RE: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Lasers again<BR>Re: Mr. Wiseman, could we have a story please?<BR>Re: Sayat<BR>RE: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>Re: Thanks for Imperiallines #2!<BR>Re: SW<BR>Re: airliner picture sought<BR>Re: Views<BR>Re: The first Challenge<BR>Re: Culture<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 16:13:42 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Books<BR><BR>Peter Scarrott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; What is the general situation with writing/publishing stories based on the<BR>&gt; Traveller universe (other than via SJG/Marc Millar etc)?&nbsp; For example a book<BR>&gt; based around the adventures of a group of travellers in the far future, set<BR>&gt; in a universe where the 2 major powers are the Solomani Confederation and<BR>&gt; the Imperium. They travel in an Empress Markava starship etc.<BR><BR>Infringement of copyright holder's exclusive right to produce derivative works.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Basically I'm talking about someone writing up the adventurers of a player<BR>&gt; group.<BR><BR>Good luck finding a publisher.&nbsp; Most in the sci-fi/fantasy field explicitly<BR>reject write-ups of player groups.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Would this have to be approved by anyone, assuming the name<BR>&gt; Traveller wasn't used and it wasn't passed&nbsp; off as a 'Traveller book'.<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; Because it violates copyright.<BR><BR>Using "Traveller" would be an independent situation: violation of<BR>Trademark.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; If it was sold as standard SF and players would notice some similarities to<BR>&gt; Traveller (e.g. Jump Drive, 1 week duration some other tech stuff) but<BR>&gt; casual readers would have no inkling it was inspired by a RPG.&nbsp; I also<BR>&gt; assume that canon would not be broken or changed in any significant manner.<BR><BR>Irrelevant.<BR><BR><BR>Bloo<BR>Disclaimer:&nbsp; I'm a lawyer but I'm not your lawyer.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:27:10 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 04:15:43 -0500 (EST), "Luther Martin"<BR>&lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I had the following thought for a game. The characters wake up in some<BR>&gt;non-descript surroundings wearing non-descript clothes, but without any<BR>&gt;memories of who they are, where they are, and so forth. The obvious<BR>&gt;immediate goal is to find out who they are and what's going on. What happens<BR>&gt;next depends on the details of the scenario. Varying levels of deviousness<BR>&gt;can follow. Megacorporation machinations. Secret Imperial research projects.<BR>&gt;Zhodani plots. The usual suspects.<BR><BR>&gt;To implement this, the players start with no knowledge of their character<BR>&gt;except an incomplete UPP. As play progresses, they learn more about<BR>&gt;themselves and their abilities. "As you get into the air/raft, you realize<BR>&gt;that you have flown a similar vehicle before. The controls seem familliar<BR>&gt;enough for you to fly it. (Make a note of air/raft-2 skill.)"<BR><BR>&gt;Has anyone tried this, or a similar concept?<BR><BR>Go rummage the TML archives; something similar, with an interesting twist,<BR>was posted earlier this year.&nbsp; As I recall, the GM ran two games at once, a<BR>standard Traveller game, and a Traveller/Thieves' World crossover.&nbsp; The<BR>climax was when the Traveller game crashed on the Thieves' World, just<BR>about the time that the characters in the Thieves' World game realized who<BR>they were and how they got there.&nbsp; But whoever posted about it originally<BR>tells the story much better.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:37:46 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: the Sayat<BR><BR>On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:15:43 -0500 (EST), "Katharine Whitchurch"<BR>&lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt; (Really Ian) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Loren : So if we can get it past the censors, you will put it into<BR>&gt;GT:Humaniti , right ? Do we have a deal ?<BR><BR>&gt;Everyone else : Last I looked, the Sayat web page was 404 Not Found. Did<BR>&gt;anyone download a copy ? If they didnt, we're going to have to reconstuct<BR>&gt;them from any of the lost and tangled records, and what we remember ...<BR>&gt;cool, huh :)<BR><BR>I have various drafts of some of the material lying around on this disk.<BR>If you can wait until either this coming weekend or (US) Thanksgiving<BR>[long] weekend, I can see if I can dig it out - IIRC, Kenji was in his<BR>manic phase when he did that for the old Execnet-hosted TravLang.<BR><BR>Most of your notes sound vaguely correct.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:32:04 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 04:15:43 -0500 (EST), John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Luther Martin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I had the following thought for a game. The characters wake up in some<BR>&gt;&gt; non-descript surroundings wearing non-descript clothes, but without any<BR>&gt;&gt; memories of who they are, where they are, and so forth. The obvious<BR>&gt;&gt; immediate goal is to find out who they are and what's going on. What happens<BR>&gt;&gt; next depends on the details of the scenario. Varying levels of deviousness<BR>&gt;&gt; can follow. Megacorporation machinations. Secret Imperial research projects.<BR>&gt;&gt; Zhodani plots. The usual suspects.<BR><BR>&gt;That's all well and good (although I think that such a scenario would be<BR>&gt;most fun if there _was_ no devious plot!).&nbsp; But try _this_ one on for<BR>&gt;size:<BR><BR>&gt;The characters wake up in a mostly familiar setting.&nbsp; However, nobody<BR>&gt;seems to recognize them.&nbsp; They run into lifelong friends (or even<BR>&gt;spouses) who have no idea who they are.&nbsp; For even more fun, the<BR>&gt;characters can learn (the hard way, of course!) that they have been<BR>&gt;"zeroed" from local databases.<BR><BR>&gt;The advantage of this kind of paranoid head-trip scenario is that an<BR>&gt;ongoing campaign can suddenly shift into this sort of "Twilight Zone."<BR><BR>&gt;Recommended source material includes the SF novel _Job: A Comedy of<BR>&gt;Justice_, by Robert Heinlein; and the movie "It's a Wonderful Life,"<BR>&gt;directed by Frank Capra.<BR><BR>Your source material (the Heinlein story) inspires an idea for a modified<BR>version of this - the friends/spouses/etc. that they run into _do_<BR>recognize them - and so do people that they don't know - but call them by<BR>the wrong names, or act differently toward them - and the databases<BR>corroborate the 'wrong' information.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:00:27 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Copyright issues (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250)<BR><BR>On 11/02/00 at 04:56 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; The name says it all 'Federation Against Copyright Theft'<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; ...their job is to safeguard royalties.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; Not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with safeguarding<BR>&gt;&gt; royalties .&nbsp; Loren "a significant chunk of my income comes from<BR>&gt;&gt; royalties" Wiseman<BR><BR>&gt;True enough.&nbsp; But much of the audio/video/film industry wants to<BR>&gt;ignore the rights that copyright law gives users.&nbsp; Like making<BR>&gt;copies of originals that were properly purchased, so as to keep the<BR>&gt;original from wearing out.<BR><BR>&gt;And they want "pay per use" as well.&nbsp; Their attempt to do that with<BR>&gt;that DVD variant flopped.&nbsp; But they're going right ahead to try<BR>&gt;doing it with music...<BR><BR>Yes, they do.&nbsp; So does the software industry with things like the MS<BR>.Net subscription model for software distrubution.<BR><BR>While I am on the side of the creator when it comes to getting<BR>proper credit and pay for their work, I am also on the side of the<BR>consumer who *buys* access to copyrighted work.&nbsp; When I buy a book,<BR>CD, or software package I'm buying more than the media carrying the<BR>content, I am buying *continuing* access to that content.&nbsp; As such,<BR>I want the legal right to copy this content, and even the right to<BR>transfer it to other media for my own use..as I see it that should<BR>be the buyer's right.&nbsp; OTOH, it should be illegal to give,<BR>especially to sell, the copyrighted content to others for their use<BR>while still retaining a copy of the material myself unless given<BR>permission by the copyright holder.<BR><BR>To me that just seems fair.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 16:28:53 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR><BR>On 11/02/00 at 08:39 PM,&nbsp; "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;On this Friday (November 3rd) I'm giving a public lecture at<BR>&gt;Modesto Junior College (I'm not quite sure why) on astronomy and<BR>&gt;such (in particular, adaptive optics, the Keck telescope, Titan,<BR>&gt;and Io.)<BR><BR>Way to go!<BR><BR>&gt;I neglected to provide the organizer with a bio paragraph, so he<BR>&gt;went looking on the web. I don't have a real web page at LLNL (no<BR>&gt;time to make one), so what his web search turned up, and what he<BR>&gt;put into the flyer annoucing the talk, was:<BR><BR>Oh boy, I can guess where *this* is going. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Dr.&nbsp; Macintosh's current astronomy interests are extrasolar planets, brown<BR>&gt;&gt;dwarfs, and high-resolution imaging of solar system objects (Io and Titan in<BR>&gt;&gt;particular.)&nbsp; More relevantly to the perpetual arguments on gdw-beta, he<BR>&gt;&gt;also does quite a bit of work on astronomical instrumentation - infrared<BR>&gt;&gt;cameras, and now adaptive optics.<BR><BR><BIG grin>Yep, got to love it!&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;Sigh. (For those who weren't around, gdw-beta was the Traveller<BR>&gt;technology mailing/argument list...) Fortunately, no-one reading it<BR>&gt;is likely to have the slightest idea what it means, but it's a good<BR>&gt;cautionary reminder of how one's past persists on the web,<BR>&gt;forever...I'm not even sure what to say if someone asks me what a<BR>&gt;gdw-beta actually is. (I'm also not sure why the organizer couldn't<BR>&gt;distinguish between fantasy and reality, but that's a seperate<BR>&gt;issue.)<BR><BR>&gt;Bruce<BR>&gt;P.S. If anyone in the Modesto CA area wants to hear a lecture on<BR>&gt;Keck Adaptive Optics studies of Titan's surface, it's at<BR>&gt;Friday, Nov.&nbsp; 3, 7:30 pm at the Modesto Junior College East Campus,<BR>&gt;Forum 110.<BR><BR>If any of us come and cheer you on, will you change the lecture to "The Definitive Sensor Rules and the effect on them of The Ultra Dusty Universe Theory?" &lt;rd&amp;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 18:31:26 EST<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: ARL (Was HEAP Shotgun Rounds)<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I have some stats from a CT/Striker campaign back in the mid-80's:<BR>&gt;TL&nbsp; Weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cost&nbsp; &nbsp; Weight&nbsp; Length&nbsp; Mag.&nbsp; &nbsp; Notes<BR>&gt; A&nbsp; 2cm ARL&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 800 Cr&nbsp; 3.0 kg&nbsp; 750mm&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; low recoil<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;TL&nbsp; Weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; Ammo:cost/weight&nbsp; &nbsp; Eff&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; Ext&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Damage<BR>&gt; A&nbsp; 2cm ARL&nbsp;&nbsp; HEAP Cr30/0.5kg mag 300m(9) 600m(9) 900m(9)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; HE&nbsp;&nbsp; Cr20/0.5kg mag 300m(5) 600m(5) 900m(5)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; After all this time I can't speak as to why those stats were<BR>&gt;assigned;<BR><BR>Didn't the original JTAS article provide Striker stats as well as CT<BR>stats?&nbsp; I can't remember; the JTAS reprints are going to be awesome.<BR><BR>MT did it a bit differently (I think I like your version better).&nbsp; They<BR>have the ARL as a 10 mm weapon, 700 mm long, all clips cost Cr 35 &amp; have<BR>20 rounds.&nbsp; HEAP PV is 10, &amp; there is a KEAP round with PV 8 (maybe 8/6/4<BR>in Striker terms).&nbsp; The HE round does do Damage 5.&nbsp; The ARL has an autofire<BR>bonus of about +2 in Striker terms.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Speaking of the CT/Striker era, have any of the rules versions since<BR>&gt;then been as good?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :&gt;<BR><BR>Naaah.&nbsp; CT/Striker/MT hybrid rules rule!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :)<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 16:29:44 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yes, I have many, many years ago.&nbsp; My FTF group broke up 3 sessions<BR>&gt;into the Amnesia Campaign I had planned for them...much to my<BR>&gt;dismay, and I've been bummed out about it for the last 15 years.<BR>&lt;&lt;snipped&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>WOW! Any chance you'll tell us the rest?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 19:04:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>Eris,<BR><BR>What will it take to get more details about that scenario?<BR><BR>hooked Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:16:35 -0800<BR>From: "Jason Bernstein" &lt;apoc527@u.washington.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Lasers again<BR><BR>Hello all, <BR><BR>I figured this was the one list that would be able to answer my questions<BR>concerning "canon" laser weapons.&nbsp; In CT or T4, how did lasers<BR>operate?&nbsp; DId they fire a beam, pulse or what?&nbsp; What was their armor<BR>penetration like?&nbsp; "Emperor's Arsenal" has several burst fire capable<BR>lasers.&nbsp; What does that mean?&nbsp; The reason I ask directly concerns<BR>GURPS: Traveller which I will be running.&nbsp; I'm hoping someone is familiar<BR>with the GURPS laser rules.&nbsp; Basically, should a laser be able to<BR>penetrate (obviously depending on TL) most forms of non-powered armor<BR>and/or fire "automatically."&nbsp; The GURPS rules make it impossible to have a<BR>laser that is capable of penetrating even light armor that fires "in burst<BR>mode."&nbsp; While a laser that CAN penetrate the heaviest armor can only fire<BR>in one long beam.&nbsp; Oh, the reason I care so much is that I just like<BR>lasers.&nbsp; They are a perfect space weapon, and technically they would be<BR>easier to keep loaded, as all you need is a solar generator and a plug... <BR><BR>Thanks for any insight on this problem!&nbsp; <BR><BR>Cross-posted from the Guntech list. <BR><BR>- -Jake Bernstein<BR>apoc527@u.washington.edu<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 19:47:49 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Mr. Wiseman, could we have a story please?<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Loren,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Over on the Fudge list, they are talking about the time you once got <BR>&gt;&nbsp; a letter from Palladium saying they had trademarked the term "recon" <BR>&gt;&nbsp; and GDW should refrain from using it. Apparently your reply was <BR>&gt;&nbsp; memorable. Unfortunately, no one actually remembers it, except the <BR>&gt;&nbsp; U.S. Marines' 1st Reconnaissance Battalion was involved.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; So, how about a story? Please 8^)<BR><BR>Include me among the people that that do not actually remember the full text <BR>of my reply. The gist of it was that the magazine had used the word "recon" <BR>as a synonym for "reconnaissance" (which I could actually spell in those <BR>days), and quoted several instances of this dating back several years (which <BR>may be where the Marine Force Recon came into it). I remarked that this did <BR>not, in my layman's opinion, infringe on their "RECON" trademark, and <BR>requested information on how, precisely, their mark had been harmed. I never <BR>got an answer.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 19:38:59 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Sayat<BR><BR>&gt; Loren : So if we can get it past the censors, you will put it into<BR>&gt;&nbsp; GT:Humaniti , right ? Do we have a deal ?<BR><BR>Nope. Depends purely on what their write-up looks like, what kind of room I <BR>have, etc. -- I cannot clear anything in advance.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 00:15:45 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>Why not both - put a posting form on the website and send it to the TML.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin<BR>&gt; Sent: 02 November 2000 22:43<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 04:29:23 -0500 (EST), "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann"<BR>&gt; &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;hereŽs an idea i just had, maybe itŽs something to follow up on...<BR>&gt; &gt;On other lists, mostly fanfic lists and the like, <BR>&gt; challenges are regularly <BR>&gt; &gt;set, that other members try to fulfill. How about doing <BR>&gt; something similar <BR>&gt; &gt;on the TML.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;We have all complained about the relative lack of <BR>&gt; adventures for Traveller <BR>&gt; &gt;published since the advent of TNE. The publishers told us, <BR>&gt; that the market <BR>&gt; &gt;for adventures is smaller than the market for sourceboks, <BR>&gt; so thatŽs where <BR>&gt; &gt;theyŽd rather put their money. Understandable, IMHO. So <BR>&gt; why donŽt we write <BR>&gt; &gt;more adventures ourselves, and publish them on the list? <BR>&gt; One member sets a <BR>&gt; &gt;challenge, some points which the adventure must have, some <BR>&gt; details on the <BR>&gt; &gt;perils and adversaries and so on. Other members interested <BR>&gt; may decide to <BR>&gt; &gt;take the challenge and write an adventure along the <BR>&gt; guidelines set by the <BR>&gt; &gt;challenger. Ater a certain deadline, the best, ie most <BR>&gt; interesting, or most <BR>&gt; &gt;detailed, or most innovative adventure wins. The <BR>&gt; contenders could post <BR>&gt; &gt;preliminary drafts, and invite comments by others and try <BR>&gt; 5o improve upon <BR>&gt; &gt;their adventures accordingly. The decision lies with the <BR>&gt; challenger, as he <BR>&gt; &gt;set the challenge. The winner may get a small price, or <BR>&gt; recognition on the <BR>&gt; &gt;list for his achievement. Mostly, writing an adventure <BR>&gt; should be a labor of <BR>&gt; &gt;love, however.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;The entries could all be posted (with permission) on a <BR>&gt; homepage, so we <BR>&gt; &gt;could build a library of themed adventures as time goes <BR>&gt; by. We could share <BR>&gt; &gt;our ideas and hone our adventure writing and GMŽing skills.<BR>&gt; &gt;So, how about it? LetŽs make the TML an even better resource...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm for this, on general principles.&nbsp; But let me suggest a <BR>&gt; modification to<BR>&gt; this suggestion: Instead of doing it here on the TML, which would<BR>&gt; effectively limit it to TML members, why not do it at a <BR>&gt; website from the<BR>&gt; get-go, thus opening it up to people who are interested in <BR>&gt; Traveller, but<BR>&gt; for one reason or another may not be able or willing to <BR>&gt; join the TML?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Another advantage to that would be that you could have other website<BR>&gt; visitors - including those who are afraid to try to write - <BR>&gt; voice their<BR>&gt; opinions of which adventure was best.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (And yes, if people like this idea, but think I should put <BR>&gt; up or shut up,<BR>&gt; I'm perfectly willing - eager, even - to host it on <BR>&gt; Freelance Traveller!)<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Jeff Zeitlin<BR>&gt; jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:42:22 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Thanks for Imperiallines #2!<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>David Smart wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; He also included the last few things that GDW sent its readers: a discharge<BR>&gt;&gt; certificate from the 4518th Huscarles and three patches: a Regina<BR>&gt;&gt; shoulder-flash, a 4518th patch and an Imperial Sunburst!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BTW, do you have a copy of the writeup on the 4518th from<BR>&gt;the TAS Journal?<BR><BR>Er, I have the JTAS version, the 5FW version, the SMC version, the Regency<BR>Sourcebook version, and the GT: Star Mercs version - which one were you after<BR>again?<BR><BR>;-)<BR><BR>If you are interested, IMTU the characters rescued the remnants of the 4518th<BR>(even at TL 15, 2 months worth of pounding by TL 14 Zho ortillery takes its<BR>toll, at least according to the 5FW boardgame) from Efate (along with Seldrian).<BR>Here's what happened:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - they used the amazing bouncing Droyne (Ervmisbe, PSI 15/Teleport-15) to<BR>attach limpet nukes to a squadron of Zho cruisers in orbit;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - then they used blackmail tactics to forcibly "requisition" one of those<BR>big triangular merchants (from FASA's Merchant Ships) that the Zhos had<BR>impounded;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - they loaded the few remaining 4518th (the ones that had been protecting<BR>Seldrian) on-board the "Trigon", some onto their deep trader "Scotian Deep", and<BR>Seldrian onto their intruder scout "Eisern Faust";<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - they then fled to the jump-point, hoping that the Zhos wouldn't disarm<BR>the nukes in time.<BR><BR>They just made it. And were suitably knighted. Thus leading neatly into the<BR>"Grand Tour" scenario - at least, when the war is over.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 19:49:04 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: SW<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;LKW&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Sword Worlders are not being covered in this book.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &lt;/LKW&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Alright, but given the arguments raised before, I have to ask why.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I did not consider them a suitable subject -- they are a cultural offshoot,<BR>&gt; not a real minor race.<BR><BR>IMHO, they rate at least a sidebar, for two reasons:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; They are a sufficiently interesting cultural offshoot to rate at<BR>least some ink.<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; Covering the Sworld Worlders in a sidebar (with the above rationale<BR>included) would explain their absence in the main text.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:55:12 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: airliner picture sought<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Jesse asked for cockpit views. These may be late, but here goes:<BR><BR>I started from here and searched for "cockpit view":<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/photos/<BR><BR>The search turned up the following (among others):<BR><BR>The Center Director Roy Bridges and others take a look at the new "glass<BR>cockpit" in the orbiter Atlantis:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://images.ksc.nasa.gov/gallery/photos/1999/captions/KSC-99PP-0412.html<BR><BR>A look inside the new "glass cockpit" of the orbiter Atlantis:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://images.ksc.nasa.gov/gallery/photos/1999/captions/KSC-99PP-0441.html<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:55:49 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; No, it isn't.&nbsp; Just make a website that only uses HTML2.0<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; It's all you need for a good web site.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; But what fun is that?&nbsp; As a web *designer*, you're constantly trying to push<BR>&gt;&gt; the envelope to provide a more visceral experience.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Keep in mind things like *loading time*. Most people are still using<BR>&gt;modems, not cable or DSL. The graphics *alone* are going to eat up<BR>&gt;bandwidth.<BR><BR>But that's what you go to Jesse's site FOR!! ;-) ;-)<BR><BR>&gt;Snappy screen updates with "cartoon" graphics is more interactive than<BR>&gt;photo-realistic images that take seconds to update.<BR><BR>The ones that annoy me use graphics for every little thing, such as bullets!!<BR>_This_ is going overboard, IMHO. Dancing baloney.<BR><BR>&gt;And frankly, a web page *shouldn't* be a glorified videogame. Web pages<BR>&gt;are for communicating &amp; distributing information.<BR><BR>Who says? The purpose of one site *might* be the presentation of a videogame.<BR>But...<BR><BR>&gt;I'd *strongly* suggest making that "ultimate Traveller experience" a<BR>&gt;menu option on the main page, but *not* making it the entirety of the<BR>&gt;site.<BR><BR>...this is one I'd have to agree with. With a warning attached to those links<BR>that take you to pages that are very large. This is the sort of thing Jesse has<BR>already done, BTW.<BR><BR>&gt;And don't forget the fact that cell phones are doing text-only<BR>&gt;browsing...<BR><BR>True, but if the site is marketed as "the ultimate site for Traveller graphics<BR>on the web", would _you_ be using a text-only browser?<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:55:54 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: The first Challenge<BR><BR>Dear Volks -<BR><BR>Volker proposed:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR><BR>Que? You mean Cluedo? Or something else??<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:56:52 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Culture<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Dan Lane wrote:<BR>&gt;I've always known he was deeply involved in J-Drive development and Starship<BR>&gt;Construction.&nbsp; IMTU, he was the Admiral in charge of construction of the<BR>&gt;Nemesis class experimental cruisers featured in FSotSI.&nbsp;&nbsp; These were also<BR>&gt;mentioned in other trav material, but I can't remember where.<BR><BR>One of the post-5FW early Challenge magazines. Ans as noted by someone earlier,<BR>briefly mentioned on the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 19:31:08 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>"Matthew W. Helton" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now that would be cool...proximity fused HE shotgun rounds for bird<BR>&gt; hunting...not too much bird left, but hell, it would increase your kill<BR>&gt; ratio. Your buddies at the trap range would be impressed too...<BR><BR>Depends on the size of the bird!&nbsp; A dinosaur type bird might be a<BR>suitable target for HE.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; an advantage of pump shotguns--the automatics need a fairly consistent<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt; yeah; but I would rather have the semi-auto over a pump for an afternoon<BR>&gt; of<BR>&gt; &gt; clays...It's a LOT easier on the shoulder...:-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What kind of person uses HEAP rounds on clays???&nbsp; Hmmm. OK, I probably<BR>&gt; would...&nbsp; :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3259<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (rly-yb01.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.1]) by air-yb04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Nov 2000 22:35:34 1900<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Nov 2000 22:34:43 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA61845;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:34:03 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:33:55 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA61801<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:33:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:33:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011060333.WAA61801@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3259<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></BIG></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, November 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3260<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3259<BR>May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires? (was Re: SW)<BR>Re: The first Challenge<BR>Re: ARL (Was HEAP Shotgun Rounds)<BR>RE: Gaming stores near Cherry Hill / Medford, NJ area?<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>RE: Views<BR>Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>Re: Amnesia scenario<BR>Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>RE: Amnesia Scenario<BR>RE: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: Mr. Wiseman, could we have a story please?<BR>Re: Contact: The Sayat (II: Society)<BR>Re: Lasers again<BR>Re: Copyright issues (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250)<BR>Re: Views<BR>Re: Sayat<BR>RE: May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires?<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 22:56:46 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3259<BR><BR>On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:33:55 -0500 (EST), you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 00:15:45 -0000<BR>&gt;From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: An Adventure-writing-Challenge...<BR><BR>&gt;Why not both - put a posting form on the website and send it to the TML.<BR><BR>Done, sort of.&nbsp; Anyone submits one from the website, I'll forward it with<BR>appropriate credits.&nbsp; Actually, it won't show up until 12 Nov on the web<BR>site...<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 04:11:48 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires? (was Re: SW)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 4:53 PM<BR>Subject: Re: SW<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;LKW&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Sword Worlders are not being covered in this book.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &lt;/LKW&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Alright, but given the arguments raised before, I have to ask why.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I did not consider them a suitable subject -- they are a cultural<BR>offshoot,<BR>&gt; not a real minor race.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; LKW<BR><BR>I agree that the Sword Worlders are principally Humans of Solomani<BR>stock, and are therefore not a distinctly evolved branch of Humaniti,<BR>but I think there may be scope for a GT: Client State or GT: Pocket<BR>Empires book. ie a supplement describing various canonical independent<BR>polities/client states (Imperial, Zhodani, Solomani, Aslan, K'Kree,<BR>Vargr, Hiver, Independent, whatever) along with rules for creating your<BR>own.<BR><BR>After all, in the Spinward Marches alone there are 4 principal pocket<BR>empires / Client states (Sword Worlds, Darrians, Border Worlds,<BR>Federation of Arden) and numerous independent worlds in District 268.<BR>Similarly in Reavers Deep, and elsewhere on the borders of the main<BR>states.<BR><BR>There is much to be said for the nature of such states, their trade &amp;<BR>relations with each other and with their 'Patrons'. Intrigue and<BR>adventure await...<BR><BR>And this would give scope for the expanding on the races in GT: Humaniti<BR>too. After all, you can write a book on the Darrians alone (as GDW<BR>did...) so the 'bare-bones' of their racial characteristics, a few<BR>sample careers, and a brief history could be expanded on in a Pocket<BR>Empires book, and their relations with the Imperium, the Zhodani, the<BR>Sword Worlds, and their role in the Frontier Wars is much more relevant<BR>in such a book rather than in one that is mainly a compilation of a<BR>variety of Human minor races.<BR><BR>Thoughts?<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 23:24:14 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The first Challenge<BR><BR>On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:33:55 -0500 (EST),<BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Dear Volks -<BR><BR>&gt;Volker proposed:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR><BR>&gt;Que? You mean Cluedo? Or something else??<BR><BR>Yes, he means Cluedo.&nbsp; It was released as Clue! in the United States.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 20:32:12 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: ARL (Was HEAP Shotgun Rounds)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: ARL (Was HEAP Shotgun Rounds)<BR>...<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I have some stats from a CT/Striker campaign back in the mid-80's:<BR>&gt; &gt;TL&nbsp; Weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cost&nbsp; &nbsp; Weight&nbsp; Length&nbsp; Mag.&nbsp; &nbsp; Notes<BR>&gt; &gt; A&nbsp; 2cm ARL&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 800 Cr&nbsp; 3.0 kg&nbsp; 750mm&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; low recoil<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;TL&nbsp; Weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; Ammo:cost/weight&nbsp; &nbsp; Eff&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; Ext&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Damage<BR>&gt; &gt; A&nbsp; 2cm ARL&nbsp;&nbsp; HEAP Cr30/0.5kg mag 300m(9) 600m(9) 900m(9)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; HE&nbsp;&nbsp; Cr20/0.5kg mag 300m(5) 600m(5) 900m(5)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; After all this time I can't speak as to why those stats were<BR>&gt; &gt;assigned;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Didn't the original JTAS article provide Striker stats as well as CT<BR>&gt;stats?&nbsp; I can't remember; the JTAS reprints are going to be awesome.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;MT did it a bit differently (I think I like your version better).&nbsp; They<BR>&gt;have the ARL as a 10 mm weapon, 700 mm long, all clips cost Cr 35 &amp; have<BR>&gt;20 rounds.&nbsp; HEAP PV is 10, &amp; there is a KEAP round with PV 8 (maybe 8/6/4<BR>&gt;in Striker terms).&nbsp; The HE round does do Damage 5.&nbsp; The ARL has an autofire<BR>&gt;bonus of about +2 in Striker terms.<BR><BR>The original in JTAS #17 had CT stats only. 10mm HEAP rounds should have<BR>a Pv somewhere around a snub pistols, and making it 2cm made it easier to<BR>"game-balance" it against the LAG and its array of loads. They had it as<BR>HE = 5D &amp; HEAP = 4D, which I'm happy to take as an error.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Oh, and the rocket-carbine of the Mars-born character in Saberhagen's<BR>(Berserker story) _The Stone Place_ was an influence, too...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Speaking of the CT/Striker era, have any of the rules versions since<BR>&gt; &gt;then been as good?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Naaah.&nbsp; CT/Striker/MT hybrid rules rule!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Well, the task rules were _meant_ to be clipped to CT, so I agree :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 23:54:50 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gaming stores near Cherry Hill / Medford, NJ area?<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hello,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sorry for the off topic.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I'm going to Cherry Hill / Medford area in New Jersey next week for a<BR>&gt;cousin's wedding next weekend.&nbsp; Does anyone know of any good FLGS / used<BR>&gt;bookstores nearby?&nbsp; I may be heading into Philadelphia for a day, so any<BR>&gt;suggestions there would be useful, too.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Interestingly enough, my current group meets right in that area. To the<BR>best of my knowledge, the pickings are pretty slim around there. As far as<BR>Philadelphia goes, your best option is probably Showcase Comics on South<BR>Street, between 6th and 7th. I will tell you right off the bat that you will<BR>not find anything particularly special or rare there... and you will find no<BR>real deals to speak of.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; On the other hand, right down the street, on the corner of 5th and South<BR>lurks The Book Trader. If you're really lucky, someone might have sold off<BR>their old role-playing collection and you may find some real deals. I picked<BR>up a copy of "Eldritch Wizardry", in very nice condition, for the<BR>astonishing price of $2.50. I also picked up a small hoard of Trav LBBs and<BR>JTAS issues for $2.00 each once. My brother and I each got a mint copy of<BR>Deities with the Cthulhu and Melnibonean mythos for $10 each. To get to the<BR>role-playing section go upstairs, make a left go past 3 cramped aisles and<BR>start looking on the floor for comics, graphic novels and computer game<BR>manuals and hint books. Crouch down and look very carefully. It's really hit<BR>or miss. Unless you're lucky, you probably won't find much.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Book Trader also happens to be a pretty nice bookstore. I've found<BR>quite a few hard to find books in there over the years. It depends on what<BR>you're interested in. Their selection is good enough that I've been going<BR>there for sixteen years now. I rarely leave without a book in my hands.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Hope that helps. Have fun at the wedding.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 07:55:47 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Yes, I have many, many years ago.&nbsp; My FTF group broke up 3 sessions<BR>&gt; &gt;into the Amnesia Campaign I had planned for them...much to my<BR>&gt; &gt;dismay, and I've been bummed out about it for the last 15 years.<BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;snipped&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; WOW! Any chance you'll tell us the rest?<BR><BR>If not on the list, at least in private mail? B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:48:15 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>&gt;Keep in mind things like *loading time*. Most people are still using<BR>&gt;modems, not cable or DSL. The graphics *alone* are going to eat up<BR>&gt;bandwidth.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Note that the graphics on Jesse's site already do eat up a fair amount of<BR>bandwidth. He is, after all, a visual artist. I'm not disagreeing with you<BR>entirely here. I'm just stressing the fact that he's coming from a<BR>completely different direction on this issue.<BR><BR>&gt;Snappy screen updates with "cartoon" graphics is more interactive than<BR>&gt;photo-realistic images that take seconds to update.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I agree here entirely. Smallish graphic files, strategically placed, can be<BR>incredibly good at putting the reader / viewer into a different environment.<BR>For example, banner ads for Makhidkarun and the like would be doable with<BR>today's technology. They'd be interesting in and of themselves, and they<BR>would provide an excellent frame for the text on the page. I considered<BR>doing this before, but I just don't have the time.<BR><BR>&gt;Also, when looking for *info*, I'd *rather* use a pure text browser<BR>&gt;like Lynx.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fair enough, but it doesn't appear that Jesse's talking about "info" here.<BR>If I understand correctly, he's talking about the marriage of traditional<BR>design and certain advantages of the medium of the web to create an<BR>experience. I may be mischaracterizing him here, but that's what it looked<BR>to me like he was talking about.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; If you use a pure-text browser, you're going to miss out on that<BR>experience.<BR><BR>&gt;And frankly, a web page *shouldn't* be a glorified videogame. Web pages<BR>&gt;are for communicating &amp; distributing information.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'd *strongly* suggest making that "ultimate Traveller experience" a<BR>&gt;menu option on the main page, but *not* making it the entirety of the<BR>&gt;site.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A web page shouldn't be a glorified video game? Who says? I wasn't aware<BR>that there were any hard and fast rules concerning what a web page should<BR>be. Web pages are for communicating and distributing information, but<BR>information takes on a lot of different forms. Text is only one option. As I<BR>mentioned above, it appears that Jesse wants to create an experience. It<BR>doesn't appear that he wants to write a novel or short story (two ways to<BR>create such an experience through pure text alone).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Of course, all of this depends on the niche that Jesse wants his potential<BR>Traveller site to fill.<BR><BR>&gt;And while the people using things like Lynx(text only), Arachne, and<BR>&gt;NetTamer are a minority, they aren't a small market *especially* since<BR>&gt;all of those run on things like palmtops.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And don't forget the fact that cell phones are doing text-only<BR>&gt;browsing...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Then the web market is going to bifurcate considerably. There's going to be<BR>a market for high-bandwidth sites with audio and visual content, and a<BR>market for low-bandwidth sites for those who can't or won't use such a<BR>medium. The experience in each market is going to be considerably different.<BR>Folks will use portable computers and cell phones to check their email,<BR>check stock reports and get late-breaking news, while others will use their<BR>computer systems at home for something completely different.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Folks have been waiting to do the latter with the internet for quite some<BR>time. There have been some faltering steps in that direction: multiplayer<BR>games of all types, Flash and so on. This isn't new. I used to do ANSI art<BR>for local BBSes. Even back then there were lots of folks who were pushing<BR>the limits of the medium toward the visual spectrum.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Like it or not, various forms of media are constantly being challenged to<BR>keep up in an increasingly visual and aural world. Even the medium of print<BR>is changing drastically. I don't think that this is necessarily a good thing<BR>in most cases, but that is the way things are gravitating.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; However, in the case of the sort of thing Jesse seems to be talking about,<BR>I say more power to him. Sure, some folks who rely on a cellphone or palmtop<BR>for their internet access might get left out. Sure, some folks who choose to<BR>use text-only browsers, for whatever reason, might get left out. However,<BR>Jesse's considerable skill as a visual artist and designer will really shine<BR>through and I suspect that he'll be able to create a site which is both<BR>unique and stimulating. Denying Jesse the chance to ply his trade because of<BR>the limitations of some to view his work is akin to telling a painter not to<BR>paint because some folks are blind.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Not all media are created equally. Some of them are better than others at<BR>communicating different ideas, concepts and information.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 07:53:44 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&lt;LKW&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Are the Swordies getting covered in this as well?<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;Sword Worlders are not being covered in this book.<BR>&gt;&gt;&lt;/LKW&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;Alright, but given the arguments raised before, I have to ask why.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;I did not consider them a suitable subject -- they are a cultural offshoot, <BR>&gt;not a real minor race.<BR><BR>Fair enough, but so are the K'Tring and (arguably) the Nexxies.<BR><BR>[I did a search for information about the Nexxies and it turns out that not<BR>only are they not a MHR, they're not even a geneered race. According to<BR>_Spinward Marches Campaign, pp. 16&amp;20, "Nexine is an underpopulated water world<BR>where the Imperial Ministry of Conservation currently operates a reseeding<BR>program using biologically altered humans. Candidates are provided with gill<BR>implants, synthetic skin insulation, and webbed extremities; they are<BR>transplanted to Nexine and participate in sea farming operations under the<BR>world's shallow seas."]<BR><BR>Not that I don't think there is a lot of potential in a society of bionic<BR>amphibians...<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:07:18 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia scenario<BR><BR>Luther Martin writes:<BR><BR>&gt;I had the following thought for a game. The characters wake up in some<BR>&gt;non-descript surroundings wearing non-descript clothes, but without any<BR>&gt;memories of who they are, where they are, and so forth. The obvious<BR>&gt;immediate goal is to find out who they are and what's going on. [...]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;To implement this, the players start with no knowledge of their character<BR>&gt;except an incomplete UPP. As play progresses, they learn more about<BR>&gt;themselves and their abilities. "As you get into the air/raft, you realize<BR>&gt;that you have flown a similar vehicle before. The controls seem familliar<BR>&gt;enough for you to fly it. (Make a note of air/raft-2 skill.)"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Has anyone tried this, or a similar concept?<BR><BR>Twice. A friend of mine usually runs a Traveller scenario at our local game<BR>convention (Viking-Con). One year the players were six crewmembers on the Free<BR>Trader "Snowhite" who awoke with memories of the previous six weeks completely<BR>blank (They also lacked all memories of their old friend, the 7th crewmwmber<BR>;-). Another scenario had the players waking up with no memories whatsoever in<BR>pitch darkness, lying on medical bunks and listening to two voices grumbling<BR>about the recent power outages. Once they had dealt with the owners of the<BR>voices (if none of them got off their bunks within five minutes of game time,<BR>the power came back on and the game was over), we gave them their character<BR>sheets: six blank sheets of paper. It was great fun watching the players'<BR>faces...<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:12:19 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>&gt; [I did a search for information about the Nexxies and it turns out that not<BR>&gt; only are they not a MHR, they're not even a geneered race. According to<BR>&gt; _Spinward Marches Campaign, pp. 16&amp;20, "Nexine is an underpopulated water world<BR>&gt; where the Imperial Ministry of Conservation currently operates a reseeding<BR>&gt; program using biologically altered humans. Candidates are provided with gill<BR>&gt; implants, synthetic skin insulation, and webbed extremities; they are<BR>&gt; transplanted to Nexine and participate in sea farming operations under the<BR>&gt; world's shallow seas."]<BR><BR>Is it clarified if these modifications are just surgical, or are they<BR>genetic?<BR><BR>I could argue that surgically modifiying people for underwater life will<BR>not be very good for achieving stability (hm, not the right word, perhaps <BR>self-sufficient would be better), if they are going to reproduce there. Of<BR>course, if the living quarters are big enough the children can spend their<BR>time indoors. Still, the fact that their parents, and other grown-ups, can<BR>live in water is going to annoy them.<BR><BR>Perhaps if the modifications are made when the individual is old enough,<BR>i.e. doesn't grow anymore, the procedure could be an initiation rite.<BR>It is difficult for me to imagine surcically modifiying growing children.<BR><BR>I would assume that TL15 could be enough to genetically modify people for<BR>different environments, but are people in the 3I ready to do this?<BR><BR>Or is this technology only in Solomani hands? Will they use it?<BR><BR>Why doesn't IMoC use dolphins for this? Or an other aquatic species?<BR><BR>Are there any water-breathing minor races?<BR><BR>&gt; Not that I don't think there is a lot of potential in a society of bionic<BR>&gt; amphibians...<BR><BR>There might be, even in wholly aquatic creatures. Perhaps in an ocean<BR>under an ice capped world? Or a small moon, far away from the star,<BR>orbiting a gas giant and getting its warmth from tidal forces?<BR><BR>One _could_ add a mysterious monolith to this, but it could be considered<BR>as plagiarism...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:44:04 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>John Groth wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;The characters wake up in a mostly familiar setting.&nbsp; However, nobody<BR>&gt; &gt;seems to recognize them.&nbsp; They run into lifelong friends (or even<BR>&gt; &gt;spouses) who have no idea who they are.&nbsp; For even more fun, the<BR>&gt; &gt;characters can learn (the hard way, of course!) that they have been<BR>&gt; &gt;"zeroed" from local databases.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The advantage of this kind of paranoid head-trip scenario is that an<BR>&gt;ongoing campaign can suddenly shift into this sort of "Twilight Zone."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Recommended source material includes the SF novel _Job: A Comedy of<BR>&gt;Justice_, by Robert Heinlein; and the movie "It's a Wonderful Life,"<BR>&gt;directed by Frank Capra.<BR><BR>There was a television series based on this, "Nowhere Man" I think it was<BR>called.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:06:23 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>&gt; Go rummage the TML archives; something similar, with an<BR>&gt; interesting twist, was posted earlier this year.&nbsp; As I recall,<BR>&gt; the GM ran two games at once, a standard Traveller game, and a<BR>&gt; Traveller/Thieves' World crossover.&nbsp; The climax was when the<BR>&gt; Traveller game crashed on the Thieves' World, just about the<BR>&gt; time that the characters in the Thieves' World game realized<BR>&gt; who they were and how they got there.&nbsp; But whoever posted about<BR>&gt; it originally tells the story much better.<BR><BR>That was me.&nbsp; &lt;blush&gt;<BR><BR>I wrote (on subj "Thieves World Redux"):<BR>&gt; I had my players crash there after&nbsp; a&nbsp; misjump,&nbsp; but&nbsp; I&nbsp; tried&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; sneaky one-time-only plot twist that worked quite well.&nbsp; One day,<BR>&gt; in the middle of a session, I halted&nbsp; play&nbsp; and&nbsp; handed&nbsp; out&nbsp; new<BR>&gt; character sheets.&nbsp; The&nbsp; new&nbsp; sheets&nbsp; had&nbsp; no&nbsp; identification&nbsp; and<BR>&gt; almost&nbsp; no&nbsp; skills&nbsp; (only&nbsp;&nbsp; non-technical&nbsp;&nbsp; skills&nbsp;&nbsp; left).&nbsp;&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; attributes matched their original characters.&nbsp; They then played a<BR>&gt; group of amnesiacs wondering round Thieve's World looking&nbsp; for&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; fallen iron tower that held the secret of their identities (or so<BR>&gt; a cleric told them).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Half of each session would be regular&nbsp; Traveller&nbsp; and&nbsp; half&nbsp; this<BR>&gt; strange Thieves World thing.&nbsp; This went on for&nbsp; several&nbsp; sessions<BR>&gt; with the players trying to figure out the connection between&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; two sets of characters.&nbsp; Just as the&nbsp; Thieves&nbsp; World&nbsp; group&nbsp; were<BR>&gt; reaching the fallen iron tower:&nbsp; in&nbsp; the&nbsp; regular&nbsp; campaign&nbsp; they<BR>&gt; suffered a misjump, crashed on Thieves World, and&nbsp; were&nbsp; attacked<BR>&gt; by a mage who&nbsp; robbed&nbsp; them&nbsp; of&nbsp; their&nbsp; memories.&nbsp; Meanwhile&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; Thieves World group reached the fallen iron tower to discover (a)<BR>&gt; it&nbsp; was&nbsp; their&nbsp; crashed&nbsp; ship,&nbsp; and&nbsp; (b)&nbsp; they&nbsp; were&nbsp; the&nbsp; *same*<BR>&gt; characters but the two parts of the campaign&nbsp; were&nbsp; being&nbsp; played<BR>&gt; out 'simultaneously' instead of in chronological order.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; After that they had to get a mage to fix their&nbsp; jump&nbsp; drive,&nbsp; but<BR>&gt; atleast they now had all their technological toys.<BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:07:50 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Mr. Wiseman, could we have a story please?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Include me among the people that that do not actually remember the full text <BR>&gt; of my reply. The gist of it was that the magazine had used the word "recon" <BR>&gt; as a synonym for "reconnaissance" (which I could actually spell in those <BR>&gt; days), and quoted several instances of this dating back several years (which <BR>&gt; may be where the Marine Force Recon came into it). I remarked that this did <BR>&gt; not, in my layman's opinion, infringe on their "RECON" trademark, and <BR>&gt; requested information on how, precisely, their mark had been harmed. I never <BR>&gt; got an answer.<BR><BR>Sounds to me like they actually talked to a lawyer who did some<BR>research and (likely) discovered that if somebody felt like pushing it<BR>they could invalidate the trademark (as I recall, there are rules about<BR>using common words/abbreviations in a manner that is *too* close to<BR>being "a normal description" of the product)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:10:50 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Contact: The Sayat (II: Society)<BR><BR>&gt; by&nbsp; kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz). <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Here's yet more Sayatiana, freshly coughed up and transcribed.&nbsp; As before,<BR>&gt; comments are most welcome.&nbsp; Hell, it's *for* the comments that I'm posting<BR>&gt; all this junk.<BR>&gt; *****************************************<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; WORLD BUILDERS' HANDBOOK DESCRIPTION<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Cultural Aspects:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Gender Discrimination:&nbsp; n/a<BR><BR>Not necessarily. They might discriminate against people who are<BR>male/female. <BR><BR>&gt; Infants are not considered "pests" as among the Hiver, but the Sayat do<BR>&gt; lack much of the sentimentality of most other human societies toward<BR>&gt; children and childhood.&nbsp; For example, in dire emergencies where only some<BR>&gt; portion of a group can be saved, the Sayat will gladly sacrifice children<BR>&gt; -- the youngest ones first -- while concentrating on rescuing adults and<BR>&gt; the elderly.&nbsp; The Sayat consider that less has been 'invested' in the<BR>&gt; young, and being easier to replace than their elders, they are more<BR>&gt; disposable.<BR><BR>That'd tend to be a bad decision genetically speaking. Anybody past the<BR>age of reproduction is less valuable genetically than a child. Letting<BR>them die reduces genetic diversity. And can lose genes.<BR><BR>So I'd suspect that there'd be a deliberate tradeoff between "potential<BR>future value" and "current value". We'd still consider it cold blooded,<BR>but I'd expect that the future value of the children would also nbe<BR>considered, not merely what had been invested in them.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:38:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers again<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Hello all, <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I figured this was the one list that would be able to answer my questions<BR>&gt; concerning "canon" laser weapons.&nbsp; In CT or T4, how did lasers<BR>&gt; operate?&nbsp; DId they fire a beam, pulse or what?&nbsp; What was their armor<BR>&gt; penetration like? <BR><BR>CT has both beam and pulse lasers.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:41:45 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Copyright issues (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3250)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On 11/02/00 at 04:56 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;True enough.&nbsp; But much of the audio/video/film industry wants to<BR>&gt;&gt;ignore the rights that copyright law gives users.&nbsp; Like making<BR>&gt;&gt;copies of originals that were properly purchased, so as to keep the<BR>&gt;&gt;original from wearing out.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;And they want "pay per use" as well.&nbsp; Their attempt to do that with<BR>&gt;&gt;that DVD variant flopped.&nbsp; But they're going right ahead to try<BR>&gt;&gt;doing it with music...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, they do.&nbsp; So does the software industry with things like the MS<BR>&gt; .Net subscription model for software distrubution.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; While I am on the side of the creator when it comes to getting<BR>&gt; proper credit and pay for their work, I am also on the side of the<BR>&gt; consumer who *buys* access to copyrighted work.&nbsp; When I buy a book,<BR>&gt; CD, or software package I'm buying more than the media carrying the<BR>&gt; content, I am buying *continuing* access to that content.&nbsp; As such,<BR>&gt; I want the legal right to copy this content, and even the right to<BR>&gt; transfer it to other media for my own use..as I see it that should<BR>&gt; be the buyer's right. <BR><BR>It is, or at least was until this year.<BR><BR>&gt; OTOH, it should be illegal to give,<BR>&gt; especially to sell, the copyrighted content to others for their use<BR>&gt; while still retaining a copy of the material myself unless given<BR>&gt; permission by the copyright holder.<BR><BR>It *is* illegal. That's what current law says.<BR><BR>But you are allowed to loan the "original copy"(OC) to someone. That's<BR>who libraries work.<BR><BR>It's a bit sticky if you have backup copies, but as long as you aren't<BR>*using* them while the original is loaned out, a court isn't likely to<BR>do much to you.<BR><BR>Likewise, you can sell the OC, if you either destroy the other copies,<BR>or transfer them to the new owner of the OC. <BR><BR>And you can *rent* the OC. <BR><BR>And the Movie, TV and recording industries would love to strip you of<BR>all of those rights. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:58:57 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;And don't forget the fact that cell phones are doing text-only<BR>&gt;&gt;browsing...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; True, but if the site is marketed as "the ultimate site for Traveller <BR>&gt; graphics on the web", would _you_ be using a text-only browser?<BR><BR>At the moment, I don't have a *choice*!<BR><BR>I can use Lynx via a shell account. I can't run a browser on my main<BR>box because the $&amp;^%$&amp; serial ports quit receiving data as soon as the<BR>(external!) modem connects. No idea why, but it happens in DOS, Win95<BR>*and* OS/2!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:29:18 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sayat<BR><BR>&gt; From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Sayat<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Loren : So if we can get it past the censors, you will put it into<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; GT:Humaniti , right ? Do we have a deal ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nope. Depends purely on what their write-up looks like, what kind of room<BR>I<BR>&gt; have, etc. -- I cannot clear anything in advance.<BR><BR>Thats fair. How many words would you like ?<BR><BR>I am thinking about leading in with the Hengabar piece, following it up with<BR>a couple of different perspectives (eg re-writing Kenji's stuff that Eris<BR>re-posted as a 3I sociologist), and ending with a couple of adventure seeds.<BR><BR>Then we do the 'Sayat as PCs' bit.<BR><BR>When would you like a draft by ?<BR><BR>Ian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:47:35 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires?<BR><BR>Mathew Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; I agree that the Sword Worlders are principally Humans of<BR>&gt; Solomani stock, and are therefore not a distinctly evolved<BR>&gt; branch of Humaniti, but I think there may be scope for a GT:<BR>&gt; Client State or GT: Pocket Empires book. ie a supplement<BR>&gt; describing various canonical independent polities/client<BR>&gt; states (Imperial, Zhodani, Solomani, Aslan, K'Kree, Vargr,<BR>&gt; Hiver, Independent, whatever) along with rules for creating<BR>&gt; your own.<BR><BR>Great idea!&nbsp; Except if its going to include the big players (like<BR>the Imperium) I don't think you can call it&nbsp; "GT: Pocket Empires"<BR>... not unless you have really&nbsp; *big*&nbsp; pockets.&nbsp; And&nbsp; "GT: Client<BR>State" is also inappropriate.&nbsp; How about "GT: Societies"?<BR><BR>Alternatively: is there enough material to make a dedicated&nbsp; "GT:<BR>Imperium" (which could include some if its client states?&nbsp; If&nbsp; so<BR>then you could do a "GT: Pocket Empires" which would include&nbsp; the<BR>Swordies.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3260<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, November 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3261<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: The first Challenge<BR>RE: May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires?<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>RE: May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires?<BR>Re: Memories<BR>Sword Worlds<BR>I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR>RE: The first Challenge<BR>RE: Views<BR>RE: The first Challenge<BR>Re: Memories<BR>CT stuff on Ebay<BR>Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>RE: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>Re: Memories<BR>Re: Sword Worlds<BR>RE: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR>Quick Question re. Droyne Worlds<BR>RE: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR>RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>RE: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>RE: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR>Re: Solomani Confederation<BR>Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 13:20:19 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The first Challenge<BR><BR>At 13:55 06.11.00 +1100, you wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Dear Volks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Volker proposed:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Que? You mean Cluedo? Or something else??<BR><BR>Yup, the very same. In Germany, its Cluedo as well, but ive seen the name <BR>Clue as well, on us-boxes.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:34:09 -0000 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires?<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 06 November 2000 11:48<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mathew Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I agree that the Sword Worlders are principally Humans of<BR>&gt; &gt; Solomani stock, and are therefore not a distinctly evolved<BR>&gt; &gt; branch of Humaniti, but I think there may be scope for a GT:<BR>&gt; &gt; Client State or GT: Pocket Empires book. ie a supplement<BR>&gt; &gt; describing various canonical independent polities/client<BR>&gt; &gt; states (Imperial, Zhodani, Solomani, Aslan, K'Kree, Vargr,<BR>&gt; &gt; Hiver, Independent, whatever) along with rules for creating<BR>&gt; &gt; your own.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Great idea!&nbsp; Except if its going to include the big players (like<BR>&gt; the Imperium) I don't think you can call it&nbsp; "GT: Pocket Empires"<BR>&gt; ... not unless you have really&nbsp; *big*&nbsp; pockets.&nbsp; And&nbsp; "GT: Client<BR>&gt; State" is also inappropriate.&nbsp; How about "GT: Societies"?<BR><BR>Err, actually in the list above I meant client states of that<BR>persuasion, ie Imperial Client State, Zhodani Client State etc, and also<BR>Independent minor states/planets.<BR><BR>&gt; Alternatively: is there enough material to make a dedicated&nbsp; "GT:<BR>&gt; Imperium" (which could include some if its client states?&nbsp; If&nbsp; so<BR>&gt; then you could do a "GT: Pocket Empires" which would include&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; Swordies.<BR><BR>Well, most of the GT books assume the Imperium as the de facto standard,<BR>with exception elsewhere noted, so I don't see the need for a sourcebook<BR>solely for the Imperium.<BR><BR>Perhaps one book devoted to the politics and culture of the 'Big Six'<BR>powers (3I, ZC, SC, AH, 2000 Worlds, HF), the Julian Protectorate, and<BR>the largest of the Vargr Extents polities. A second volume could cover<BR>the Clients/Pocket Empires. Basically, any polity a sector or so in size<BR>or greater goes in one book, and the most important of the rest go in<BR>another, along with rules on creating your own pocket empires.<BR><BR>The principal difference between these books and the Alien Races ones<BR>would be the focus. More like the Rebellion Sourcebook for MT, than the<BR>Alien Modules of CT...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:10:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>The title "The Bourne Identity" just popped into my mind...<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:49:32 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: May I suggest a GT: Pocket Empires?<BR><BR>Matt Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Great idea!&nbsp; Except if its going to include the big players (like<BR>&gt; &gt; the Imperium) I don't think you can call it&nbsp; "GT: Pocket Empires"<BR>&gt; &gt; ... not unless you have really&nbsp; *big*&nbsp; pockets.&nbsp; And&nbsp; "GT: Client<BR>&gt; &gt; State" is also inappropriate.&nbsp; How about "GT: Societies"?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Err, actually in the list above I meant client states of that<BR>&gt; persuasion, ie Imperial Client State, Zhodani Client State etc,<BR>&gt; and also Independent minor states/planets.<BR><BR>Oh, that makes more sense.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Perhaps one book devoted to the politics and culture of the<BR>&gt; 'Big Six' powers (3I, ZC, SC, AH, 2000 Worlds, HF), the Julian<BR>&gt; Protectorate, and the largest of the Vargr Extents polities. A<BR>&gt; second volume could cover the Clients/Pocket Empires. Basically,<BR>&gt; any polity a sector or so in size or greater goes in one book,<BR>&gt; and the most important of the rest go in another, along with<BR>&gt; rules on creating your own pocket empires.<BR><BR>Sounds good ... but you *could* do a&nbsp; GT:Vargr&nbsp; 'cos&nbsp; there's&nbsp; so<BR>many Vargr polities.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:54:28 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Memories<BR><BR>&gt; Another scenario had the players waking up with no memories whatsoever in<BR>&gt;&nbsp; pitch darkness<BR><BR>That's actually happened to me, and is was very frightening. Maybe twice a <BR>year, I'll wake up and not know where I am for a few seconds, until all my <BR>neurons start fring. My apartment seemed as alien as a one-night hotel room. <BR>Once, a few years ago, I woke to find that not only did I have no Idea where <BR>I was, I had no idea _who_ I was. This lasted about three seconds, and then <BR>my brain completed booting. If it happened very often (like more than once), <BR>I'd seek medical attention.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:59:30 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>LKW puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt;I did not consider them a suitable subject -- they are a cultural offshoot,<BR>&gt;not a real minor race.<BR><BR>Ok, so they don't deserve a place in an "Aliens" book on that claim.<BR>They are cool enough, and detailed enough, to deserve a sourcebook of their <BR>own.<BR><BR>They are a good plot device in the Marches.&nbsp; Not the big threat the Zhos <BR>are, but dangerous...<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 09:07:18 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR><BR>&gt;"Me and Mrs. Jones, we got a thing going on..." -- Counting Crows<BR><BR>I know this is a cover from a song done in the very early 70's...<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Did you read what I read?&nbsp; Write it right here in red.<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 23:53:21 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The first Challenge<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Volker 'V.A.G'<BR>&gt; Greimann<BR>&gt; Sent: 04 November 2000 18:54<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: The first Challenge<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; [snip]<BR>&gt; The Challenge: Include the following events, personae:<BR>&gt; [snip]<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR><BR>Never heard of it - is it an American game? You'll need to be careful<BR>of this sort of thing. How about swaping it for at least one of the<BR>counter objects used on a Monopoly board, for instance?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 23:58:06 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Behind the times Frankie! Did you miss that W3C has approved XHTML 1.0<BR>as the current standard for web pages?<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt<BR>&gt; Sent: 04 November 2000 11:42<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Views<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; [snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No. But then it's not designd to, and neither will HTML4.01, which<BR>is<BR>&gt; probably going to be the last version of HTML to be produced. You<BR>can tell<BR>&gt; that from it's name, Hyper_text_ Markup Language. &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:21:49 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The first Challenge<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Volker 'V.A.G'<BR>&gt; &gt; Greimann<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 04 November 2000 18:54<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: The first Challenge<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; [snip]<BR>&gt; &gt; The Challenge: Include the following events, personae:<BR>&gt; &gt; [snip]<BR>&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; -At least one of the characters from the game Clue!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Never heard of it - is it an American game? You'll need to be careful<BR>&gt; of this sort of thing. How about swaping it for at least one of the<BR>&gt; counter objects used on a Monopoly board, for instance?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>It's what Americans call Cluedo.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:29:53 -0600<BR>From: Stormhound &lt;stormhnd@fidnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Memories<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Another scenario had the players waking up with no memories whatsoever in<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; pitch darkness<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's actually happened to me, and is was very frightening. Maybe twice a<BR>&gt; year, I'll wake up and not know where I am for a few seconds, until all my<BR>&gt; neurons start fring. My apartment seemed as alien as a one-night hotel room.<BR>&gt; Once, a few years ago, I woke to find that not only did I have no Idea where<BR>&gt; I was, I had no idea _who_ I was. This lasted about three seconds, and then<BR>&gt; my brain completed booting. If it happened very often (like more than once),<BR>&gt; I'd seek medical attention.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I'd lay odds that what has happened in the above cases is that your body is<BR>making a sudden transition from a dreaming state to wakefulness, which can be<BR>extremely disorienting.&nbsp; I don't know how common dreams of "loss of identity"<BR>are for people who are in some way public figures, but I'm not surprised.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Let me draw this "amnesia" scenario out a bit more, based loosely on a dream<BR>I had some time back: the characters "wake" to a situation where they're in the<BR>middle of preparing to commit some act which they'd not have conceived of doing<BR>before.&nbsp; Their memories of the recent past are a trifle hazy, but seem to<BR>confirm their change of heart.&nbsp; There are other people around them who their<BR>memories suggest are new friends and are assisting them in this act, and who are<BR>urging the characters toward immediate action to keep the "plan" moving.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; For those GMs who *really* want to mess with someone's mind, make the act<BR>one which the characters would've wanted to do, but which they weren't aware of<BR>having any way to accomplish until this "awakening".<BR><BR>- --<BR>Stormhound<BR>DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:38:02 -0500 <BR>From: Glenn Myers &lt;glenn.myers@ansys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: CT stuff on Ebay<BR><BR>Hello all,<BR><BR>I'm working my way through clearing my shelfs of unused RPG stuff, and I 've<BR>just moved into the Traveller items. This week is Alien Modules and DGP's<BR>Starship Operator's Handbook.<BR><BR>I hate to spam the list, so this will be the only notice to the TML.&nbsp; <BR><BR>You probably will have to cut and paste this url into your browser, since I<BR>expect that it will wrap.<BR><BR>http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&amp;userid=arathar&amp;inc<BR>lude=0&amp;since=-1&amp;sort=2&amp;rows=25<BR><BR><BR>489375213 Nov-04-00 Nov-11-00 14:00:20 $9.99 DGP Traveller Starship<BR>Operator's Handbook NR chrystoph (7) <BR>489377807 Nov-04-00 Nov-11-00 14:03:34 $7.99 GDW Alien Module 1 Aslan -No<BR>Reserve- No Bids Yet&nbsp; <BR>489379944 Nov-04-00 Nov-11-00 14:06:11 $7.99 GDW Alien Module 4 Zhodani -No<BR>Reserve- ronaldo27 (8) <BR>489382081 Nov-04-00 Nov-11-00 14:08:28 $7.99 GDW Alien Module 5 Droyne -No<BR>Reserve- No Bids Yet&nbsp; <BR>489383945 Nov-04-00 Nov-11-00 14:11:42 $7.99 GDW Alien Module 8 Darrians -No<BR>Reserve- No Bids Yet&nbsp; <BR>489387802 Nov-04-00 Nov-11-00 14:15:57 $7.99 GDW Alien Module Alien Realms<BR>- -No Reserve- ronaldo27 (8) <BR><BR>Next week, more DGP stuff!<BR><BR>Glenn<BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR>Glenn E. Myers<BR>ANSYS Inc.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>275 Technology Drive&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Phone: (724) 514-2913<BR>Canonsburg, PA 15317&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (724) 514-3118<BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:48:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>I agree that the SW are a cultural off-shoot and not a minor race (in the<BR>sense of being transplanted by the Ancients).&nbsp; But I think that the scope<BR>of the book could certainly be considered broad enough to include the SW.<BR>It's called "GT: Humaniti" after all, and not "GT: Human Minor Races".<BR><BR>If necessary, one could provide an explanation along the lines of "while<BR>not technically a minor race, the SW are covered because they represent a<BR>cultural group highly distinct from the Solomani..." and so on.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Covering them in a lengthy side-bar would be fine, too, I guess.&nbsp; I just<BR>don't like the notion of covering the Darrians without the SW.&nbsp; The two<BR>have always gone together in my mind.&nbsp; They're basically the Athenians and<BR>the Spartans, and the contrast between them is an interesting part of both<BR>cultures.&nbsp; The conflict they provide in the Marches is a good source of<BR>adventures as well.&nbsp; Covering them in different books would not be the<BR>best solution, IMO.<BR><BR>Just my .02 Cr...<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:46:45 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Does 'A bit too familiar' refer to an unfortunate medical situation from<BR>which you barely recovered, or something entirely unwholesome we'd all<BR>rather not hear about? :)<BR><BR>What's a CPAP?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:04:52 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Charles Collin wrote:<BR>&gt; I agree that the SW are a cultural off-shoot and not a minor race (in the<BR>&gt; sense of being transplanted by the Ancients).&nbsp; But I think that the scope<BR>&gt; of the book could certainly be considered broad enough to include the SW.<BR>&gt; It's called "GT: Humaniti" after all, and not "GT: Human Minor Races".<BR><BR>I might add that "GT: Humaniti" would look a *lot* better sitting on the<BR>shelf in the gaming store than "GT: Human Minor Races."&nbsp; For those who are<BR>not Traveller players, the phrase "minor race" has rather sinister and/or<BR>distasteful politico-eugenic connotations that might be better avoided<BR>(particular when the "more polite" title would allow the inclusion of<BR>weird, but non-transplanted, human groups like the Sword Worlders).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:24:57<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Memories<BR><BR>At 08:54 AM 11/6/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Another scenario had the players waking up with no memories whatsoever in<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; pitch darkness<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That's actually happened to me, and is was very frightening. Maybe twice a <BR>&gt;year, I'll wake up and not know where I am for a few seconds, until all my <BR>&gt;neurons start fring. My apartment seemed as alien as a one-night hotel room. <BR>&gt;Once, a few years ago, I woke to find that not only did I have no Idea where <BR>&gt;I was, I had no idea _who_ I was. This lasted about three seconds, and then <BR>&gt;my brain completed booting. If it happened very often (like more than once), <BR>&gt;I'd seek medical attention.<BR><BR>The incident which led to my quitting drugs was a three day blackout.&nbsp; I<BR>was leaving a concert at the Greek Theater in Berkeley, Ca, and *blink* it<BR>is three days later and I'm outside Provo, Utah.&nbsp; I have no idea what<BR>happened during that time.&nbsp; And I'm not sure if I want to, since there were<BR>two shots gone from the pistol I habitually carried back then.&nbsp; (No, it was<BR>not the proudest period of my life.)&nbsp; I still half expect to see my face<BR>come up on America's Most want in connection with a mysterious 12-year old<BR>incident in the Nevada desert.<BR><BR>Or hell, maybe the aliens took me and gave me Hodgkin's Disease.<BR><BR>When I first manifested that lovely little condition, I had several major<BR>seizures, and at several points forgot how to speak.&nbsp; I couldn't even<BR>answer a simple yes/no question, because I could not, for the life of me,<BR>remember how to say the word "yes" (I subbed "affirmative".&nbsp; you can take<BR>the boy out of the army...)<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; In a scenario like this, give the characters mental blocks that<BR>hamper them.&nbsp; They might not be able to go in certain mental directions,<BR>and overcoming those blocks (by finding a psionics institute perhaps) might<BR>make up the first part of the campaign.<BR><BR>I also have used this as a party meeting gambit.&nbsp; Everybody wakes up in a<BR>Startown flophouse, and finds that at least six months are missing.&nbsp; They<BR>have their gear, and a pile of cash.&nbsp; They also are being followed...<BR><BR>ObShameless Plug:&nbsp; See General Lord Kurt Feltenberger, Marshal of Jewell,<BR>in Ground Forces.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:27:45<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>At 08:59 AM 11/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Ok, so they don't deserve a place in an "Aliens" book on that claim.<BR>&gt;They are cool enough, and detailed enough, to deserve a sourcebook of their <BR>&gt;own.<BR><BR>I would like to see them and the Darrians share a source book.&nbsp; They are<BR>linked with each other, and the darrians ahve enough diversity (ethnic<BR>Daryns, Aslan, and assimilate Solomani) to fill out the pages.<BR><BR>The Sword Worlds/Darrian conflict has always been an underused part of the<BR>Spinward Marches, IMHO.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"I am the penguin bold! We sailed the sea, to tringalee,<BR>in search of spanish gold" - The Magic Pudding - Norman Lindsay<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:46:22 -0700 <BR>From: Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR><BR>Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; And the flyer mentions 'free stuff for every attendee', <BR>&gt; but I don't know what that is.<BR><BR>I think this will be a Pokemon Master Challenge Deck.<BR><BR><BR>Steve Charlton<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:50:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Quick Question re. Droyne Worlds<BR><BR>Are "Andor" and "Candory" the *native* names for those two Droyne<BR>worlds in the Spinward Marches, or are they merely the names which <BR>human beings assigned to them?&nbsp; If those *aren't* the native names<BR>for these worlds, what *are* their canonical native names?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:12:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Does 'A bit too familiar' refer to an unfortunate medical situation<BR>&gt; from which you barely recovered, or something entirely unwholesome<BR>&gt; we'd all rather not hear about? :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What's a CPAP?<BR>&gt; <BR>A ventilator people with sleep apnea use so that they get sufficient<BR>oxygenation during the night.&nbsp; On the one hand, you feel 2000% better when<BR>you use it, and you're not at risk for heart attacks; on the other hand,<BR>it is a bitch to lug around and keep clean so that you don't end up<BR>breathing pollen or getting zits all over your nose.<BR><BR>Kiri<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:16:09 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>&gt; I had the following thought for a game. The characters wake up in some<BR>&gt; non-descript surroundings wearing non-descript clothes, but without any<BR>&gt; memories of who they are, where they are, and so forth<BR><BR>[snip]<BR><BR>&gt; To implement this, the players start with no knowledge of their character<BR>&gt; except an incomplete UPP. As play progresses, they learn more about<BR>&gt; themselves and their abilities. "As you get into the air/raft, you realize<BR>&gt; that you have flown a similar vehicle before. The controls seem familliar<BR>&gt; enough for you to fly it. (Make a note of air/raft-2 skill.)"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Has anyone tried this, or a similar concept?<BR><BR><BR>I once ran a game where the character began by coming to conscienceness in a<BR>rest room.&nbsp; They had no memory of who they were or how they got there.&nbsp; They<BR>were handcuffed to a dead NPC, the victim of a close range gunshot.&nbsp; A gun<BR>was lying nearby.&nbsp; Searching the body, the player found a handcuff key and a<BR>police badge...<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:49:50 -0600<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;"Me and Mrs. Jones, we got a thing going on..." -- Counting Crows<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I know this is a cover from a song done in the very early 70's...<BR><BR>I was actually trying to make a joke. I guess it didn't go over. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:16:42 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>J Raynor wrote:<BR>&gt; I might add that "GT: Humaniti" would look a *lot* better sitting<BR>&gt; on the shelf in the gaming store than "GT: Human Minor Races."<BR>&gt; For those who are not Traveller players, the phrase "minor race"<BR>&gt; has rather sinister and/or distasteful politico-eugenic<BR>&gt; connotations that might be better avoided (particular when the<BR>&gt; "more polite" title would allow the inclusion of weird, but non-<BR>&gt; transplanted, human groups like the Sword Worlders).<BR><BR>Or you could go the other way and have "GT: Subhumans"!<BR><BR>Okay, I admit "GT: Humaniti" is a snappier title than&nbsp; "GT: Human<BR>Minor Races" (and I could accept it for that&nbsp; reason&nbsp; alone)&nbsp; but<BR>your stated reason sounds a little like "political&nbsp; correctness".<BR>Personally&nbsp; I find "political correctness" as *deeply&nbsp; offensive*<BR>as racism itself (and other -isms too) ... please, lets not&nbsp; have<BR>it here.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:17:02 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Does 'A bit too familiar' refer to an unfortunate medical situation<BR>&gt; &gt; from which you barely recovered, or something entirely unwholesome<BR>&gt; &gt; we'd all rather not hear about? :)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; What's a CPAP?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; A ventilator people with sleep apnea use so that they get sufficient<BR>&gt; oxygenation during the night.&nbsp; On the one hand, you feel <BR>&gt; 2000% better when<BR>&gt; you use it, and you're not at risk for heart attacks; on the <BR>&gt; other hand,<BR>&gt; it is a bitch to lug around and keep clean so that you don't end up<BR>&gt; breathing pollen or getting zits all over your nose.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>&lt;\searching: Sleep Apnea&gt;<BR>&lt;\Reading&gt;<BR><BR>Oh, sounds nasty. You learn something new every day.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:19:50 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;"Me and Mrs. Jones, we got a thing going on..." -- Counting Crows<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I know this is a cover from a song done in the very early 70's...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was actually trying to make a joke. I guess it didn't go over. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>You and my wife, Eris? Say it ain't so! :)<BR><BR>Seriously, I count myself lucky my significant other has a Jones jones ;)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:27:48 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Solomani Confederation<BR><BR>&gt; I'd recommend that anyone thinking deeply on the Solomani (and I've been<BR>&gt; enjoying Dan Lane's and Tod Glenn's stuff a lot) gets hold of a copy of<BR>&gt; Kruschev's Secret Speech - his denunciation on Stalin to the Communist<BR>Party<BR>&gt; convention in 1956 (a copy got leaked to the West by a dedicated<BR>Stalinist,<BR>&gt; the Polish Ambassador to the USSR).<BR><BR>I found it.&nbsp; Interesting.&nbsp; See:<BR><BR>http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1956khrushchev-secret1.html<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:28:56 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>&lt;SARCASM&gt;<BR>"GT: Non-Aryans" it is, then. We wouldn't want to offend anyone who's<BR>not used to being offended.<BR>&lt;/SARCASM&gt;<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Personally&nbsp; I find "political correctness" as *deeply&nbsp; offensive*<BR>&gt; as racism itself (and other -isms too)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3261<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3262</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, November 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3262<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>RE: Sword Worlds<BR>Re: Views<BR>Re: Memories<BR>RE: Sleep (Was&nbsp; Memories)<BR>Diplomacy - Off Topic<BR>RE: Views<BR>GT: Humaniti vs. Other Names<BR>RE: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Don't worry about it.<BR>Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3261<BR>Re: Nobles for Loren<BR>Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK toys<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:41:22 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>&gt; J Raynor wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I might add that "GT: Humaniti" would look a *lot* better sitting<BR>&gt; &gt; on the shelf in the gaming store than "GT: Human Minor Races."<BR>&gt; &gt; For those who are not Traveller players, the phrase "minor race"<BR>&gt; &gt; has rather sinister and/or distasteful politico-eugenic<BR>&gt; &gt; connotations that might be better avoided (particular when the<BR>&gt; &gt; "more polite" title would allow the inclusion of weird, but non-<BR>&gt; &gt; transplanted, human groups like the Sword Worlders).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Or you could go the other way and have "GT: Subhumans"!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Okay, I admit "GT: Humaniti" is a snappier title than&nbsp; "GT: Human<BR>&gt; Minor Races" (and I could accept it for that&nbsp; reason&nbsp; alone)&nbsp; but<BR>&gt; your stated reason sounds a little like "political&nbsp; correctness".<BR>&gt; Personally&nbsp; I find "political correctness" as *deeply&nbsp; offensive*<BR>&gt; as racism itself (and other -isms too) ... please, lets not&nbsp; have<BR>&gt; it here.<BR><BR>Call it "political correctness," if you prefer, I freely admit that it<BR>quacks a bit like that particularly duck.&nbsp; On the other hand, you could<BR>also call it "sensible marketing" just as easily.&nbsp; &lt;shrug&gt; I believe<BR>there's an old saying that goes "A gentleman never offends anyone<BR>*unintentionally*", which (in my opinion) covers this situation pretty<BR>well...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:53:41 -0600 <BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>Mark Urbin posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; LKW puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;I did not consider them a suitable subject -- they are a <BR>&gt; cultural offshoot, not a real minor race.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ok, so they don't deserve a place in an "Aliens" book on that claim.<BR>&gt; They are cool enough, and detailed enough, to deserve a <BR>&gt; sourcebook of their <BR>&gt; own.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They are a good plot device in the Marches.&nbsp; Not the big <BR>&gt; threat the Zhos are, but dangerous...<BR><BR>"Not the big threat"?!?!<BR><BR>As I recall, they kicked some *serious* Imperial butt in Lanth<BR>subsector during the Fifth Frontier War. If they'd had Jump-5<BR>capable fleets or a better refueling scheme (or both) to get <BR>across the empty space in Lanth, Rhylanor would have had a <BR>*really* bad year.<BR><BR>The Vargr can be contained because their inherent cultural<BR>aspects defeat the rise of a centralized government. The<BR>Sworld Worlds *can* be united by a single leader; it may<BR>take alot of finesse but it has a much greater chance<BR>of happening (IMO, of course).<BR><BR>Heaven help the Imps (and Darrians) if it does. Of course,<BR>the Zhos may just be pulling their own version of Hiver<BR>manipulation to keep the Swordies ifragmented.<BR><BR>The Sworld Worlds don't get the attention they deserve,<BR>as I proved in a variant game of FFW some years back. I<BR>couldn't take Rhylanor but I scared the bejesus out of the<BR>Impy player and surprised the Zho player as well.<BR><BR>I do hope some in-depth sidebars at least on the potential<BR>of the Sworld Worlds would be considered by SJG at some point.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:54:21 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Keep in mind things like *loading time*. Most people are still using<BR>&gt;&gt;modems, not cable or DSL. The graphics *alone* are going to eat up<BR>&gt;&gt;bandwidth.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Note that the graphics on Jesse's site already do eat up a fair amount of<BR>&gt; bandwidth. He is, after all, a visual artist. I'm not disagreeing with you<BR>&gt; entirely here. I'm just stressing the fact that he's coming from a<BR>&gt; completely different direction on this issue.<BR><BR>Sure, but as someone stuck with text mode at the moment, I'd like to be<BR>able to go to a "gallery" with "named" links that I can click on to<BR>download. <BR><BR>One thing I *hate* is seeing a screen full of [LINK] instead of<BR>descriptive tags for the link! Another, of course, is seeing bunches of<BR>such tags that aren't "clickable" and thus can't be downloaded.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;And frankly, a web page *shouldn't* be a glorified videogame. Web pages<BR>&gt;&gt;are for communicating &amp; distributing information.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I'd *strongly* suggest making that "ultimate Traveller experience" a<BR>&gt;&gt;menu option on the main page, but *not* making it the entirety of the<BR>&gt;&gt;site.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A web page shouldn't be a glorified video game? Who says? I wasn't aware<BR>&gt; that there were any hard and fast rules concerning what a web page should<BR>&gt; be. Web pages are for communicating and distributing information, but<BR>&gt; information takes on a lot of different forms. Text is only one option. As I<BR>&gt; mentioned above, it appears that Jesse wants to create an experience. It<BR>&gt; doesn't appear that he wants to write a novel or short story (two ways to<BR>&gt; create such an experience through pure text alone).<BR><BR>Hey, I use Lynx to get graphics from a couple of sites. It's perfectly<BR>possible to get graphics that way. It's just not suitable for *dynamic*<BR>graphics. <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, all of this depends on the niche that Jesse wants his potential<BR>&gt; Traveller site to fill.<BR><BR>True enough. I'm basicly making suggestions with the intent of making<BR>such portions of it as *can* be used with text mode or slow connections<BR>"friendly" to such connections.<BR><BR>As I understand it, it's possible to detect *some* capabilities of the<BR>browser and provide "alternate" pages based on those capabilities.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;And while the people using things like Lynx(text only), Arachne, and<BR>&gt;&gt;NetTamer are a minority, they aren't a small market *especially* since<BR>&gt;&gt;all of those run on things like palmtops.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;And don't forget the fact that cell phones are doing text-only<BR>&gt;&gt;browsing...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Then the web market is going to bifurcate considerably. There's going to be<BR>&gt; a market for high-bandwidth sites with audio and visual content, and a<BR>&gt; market for low-bandwidth sites for those who can't or won't use such a<BR>&gt; medium. The experience in each market is going to be considerably different.<BR>&gt; Folks will use portable computers and cell phones to check their email,<BR>&gt; check stock reports and get late-breaking news, while others will use their<BR>&gt; computer systems at home for something completely different.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Folks have been waiting to do the latter with the internet for quite some<BR>&gt; time. There have been some faltering steps in that direction: multiplayer<BR>&gt; games of all types, Flash and so on. This isn't new. I used to do ANSI art<BR>&gt; for local BBSes. Even back then there were lots of folks who were pushing<BR>&gt; the limits of the medium toward the visual spectrum.<BR><BR>Oh yeah, I've had the idea of a multiplayer WAN-based space combat game<BR>since the 70s! <BR><BR>But just as news/email and "the web" both *use* the internet, but are<BR>*not* the same thing (nor handled in the same manner), I think certain<BR>amounts of interactivity/graphics/sound really need to be handled as<BR>"seperate but equal". <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Like it or not, various forms of media are constantly being challenged to<BR>&gt; keep up in an increasingly visual and aural world. Even the medium of print<BR>&gt; is changing drastically. I don't think that this is necessarily a good thing<BR>&gt; in most cases, but that is the way things are gravitating.<BR><BR>Well, consider this: Would your arguments be different if my reason for<BR>objecting was because I was *blind*, and the web pages weren't easily<BR>navigable with my screen reader?<BR><BR>The issues for a blind person using a web browser are a bit different,<BR>but they've got many of the same complaints.<BR><BR>And sooner or later, somebody is going to invoke the ADA in a case<BR>where the info *should* have been more accessible.<BR><BR>And consider that even a blind person might be trying to grab a graphic<BR>for a sighted friend.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; However, in the case of the sort of thing Jesse seems to be talking about,<BR>&gt; I say more power to him. Sure, some folks who rely on a cellphone or palmtop<BR>&gt; for their internet access might get left out. Sure, some folks who choose to<BR>&gt; use text-only browsers, for whatever reason, might get left out. However,<BR>&gt; Jesse's considerable skill as a visual artist and designer will really shine<BR>&gt; through and I suspect that he'll be able to create a site which is both<BR>&gt; unique and stimulating. Denying Jesse the chance to ply his trade because of<BR>&gt; the limitations of some to view his work is akin to telling a painter not to<BR>&gt; paint because some folks are blind.<BR><BR>That's *not* what I'm saying.<BR><BR>I'm not saying that he shouldn't do it. Just that he shouldn't do it in<BR>a way that excludes people from stuff they *could* get at if he<BR>maintained some compatability with "older" tech.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Not all media are created equally. Some of them are better than others at<BR>&gt; communicating different ideas, concepts and information.<BR><BR>Yeah, but adding compatability for those who need/want it can be<BR>useful. On several DVDs, I've found that enabling the subtitles (yes,<BR>English subtitles with English audio!) helped out because I was able to<BR>read the subtitles at points where the sound effects (or mumbling<BR>actors!) made the dialog unintelligible.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:19:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Memories<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Another scenario had the players waking up with no memories whatsoever in<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; pitch darkness<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's actually happened to me, and is was very frightening. Maybe twice a <BR>&gt; year, I'll wake up and not know where I am for a few seconds, until all my <BR>&gt; neurons start fring. My apartment seemed as alien as a one-night hotel room. <BR>&gt; Once, a few years ago, I woke to find that not only did I have no Idea where <BR>&gt; I was, I had no idea _who_ I was. This lasted about three seconds, and then <BR>&gt; my brain completed booting. If it happened very often (like more than once), <BR>&gt; I'd seek medical attention.<BR><BR>It's a not uncommon condition. &lt;something&gt; amnesia. <BR><BR>You can ask about it over on alt.support.sleep-disorder. As I recall,<BR>it's not serious, but may be something you want to talk over with a<BR>doctor.<BR><BR>And the "not knowing where you are" and "not knowing who you are" are<BR>the *same* "problem", just in different intensities.<BR><BR>Extreme cases can take several minutes to remember who and where they<BR>are. It's strongly recommended that such people not have jobs that<BR>involve being awakened suddenly. And that they make a point of warning<BR>anybody they sleep with. :-)<BR><BR>ObTrav should be obvious. It's make a nice (if usually minor) GURPS<BR>disadvantage. <BR><BR>Combined with some types of "combat" training, this could be a *major*<BR>disadvantage. <BR><BR>Picture the poor guy that hasn't been warned and tries to wake up that<BR>ex-Marine commando in the crew... &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:42:01 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Sleep (Was&nbsp; Memories)<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ObTrav should be obvious. It's (Waking amnesia) make a nice (if usually<BR>minor) GURPS<BR>&gt; disadvantage. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Combined with some types of "combat" training, this could be a *major*<BR>&gt; disadvantage. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Picture the poor guy that hasn't been warned and tries to wake up that<BR>&gt; ex-Marine commando in the crew... &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR><BR>For a rather nasty thing to do to a player, give their character a bout of<BR>sleep paraylsis. I've experienced it once, a couple of years ago. Very<BR>creepy, very scary...if I didn't know better I would have thought I was<BR>having an Abduction Experience (note: I'm not saying that Abductions are<BR>either true or false, but Sleep Paralysis is just like the descriptions I've<BR>read of alien abduction)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:48:26 +0000<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Diplomacy - Off Topic<BR><BR>I know it's a bit off topic, but I don't want to go out and find die-hard<BR>Diplomacy grognards!<BR><BR>However, if there's anyone with a passing interest in the game who'd like<BR>to join a PBEM game starting soon, please contact me off list.<BR><BR>tc<BR>"And was there really no one who fancied Nomic - the Peter Suber game where<BR>the game is changing the rules of the game?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:53:51 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Didn't mean to invoke a flamewar :)<BR><BR>To clarify, I DO intend to have a text only version that has links to the<BR>graphics for our "browser-impaired" brethren ;)&nbsp; This will be selectable<BR>from the "front door" of the site.&nbsp; While it will cut down on the experience<BR>that I'm aiming for, there will still be enough there to make it worth it.<BR>Another thought I'd had for the low-bandwidth version is to have a contact<BR>sheet graphic available.&nbsp; This would give you a small thumbnail and the name<BR>of picture (co-inciding with the link) so that you can decide which shots<BR>you'd like to take a closer look at.<BR><BR>Currently, my site is incredibly sloppy.&nbsp; It was never meant to last in it's<BR>current form beyond a couple of months.&nbsp; Two years later and it's still in<BR>it's original state.&nbsp; The gallery is particularly incidious in that I just<BR>keep tacking images on to the bottom.&nbsp; In the next rev, there will be a<BR>maximum number of images per gallery page, with a corresponding contact<BR>sheet, so that the download times aren't as bad.&nbsp; The gallery sections will<BR>be seperate from the "experience" portion, as will the news page that'll let<BR>you know what's up without having to sit through the intro movie ;)<BR><BR>I'll make sure everyone gets a chance to see and read what I've got cooking.<BR><BR>Very Best,<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 9:54 AM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Keep in mind things like *loading time*. Most people are still using<BR>&gt;&gt;modems, not cable or DSL. The graphics *alone* are going to eat up<BR>&gt;&gt;bandwidth.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Note that the graphics on Jesse's site already do eat up a fair amount<BR>of<BR>&gt; bandwidth. He is, after all, a visual artist. I'm not disagreeing with you<BR>&gt; entirely here. I'm just stressing the fact that he's coming from a<BR>&gt; completely different direction on this issue.<BR><BR>Sure, but as someone stuck with text mode at the moment, I'd like to be<BR>able to go to a "gallery" with "named" links that I can click on to<BR>download.<BR><BR>One thing I *hate* is seeing a screen full of [LINK] instead of<BR>descriptive tags for the link! Another, of course, is seeing bunches of<BR>such tags that aren't "clickable" and thus can't be downloaded.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;And frankly, a web page *shouldn't* be a glorified videogame. Web pages<BR>&gt;&gt;are for communicating &amp; distributing information.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I'd *strongly* suggest making that "ultimate Traveller experience" a<BR>&gt;&gt;menu option on the main page, but *not* making it the entirety of the<BR>&gt;&gt;site.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A web page shouldn't be a glorified video game? Who says? I wasn't<BR>aware<BR>&gt; that there were any hard and fast rules concerning what a web page should<BR>&gt; be. Web pages are for communicating and distributing information, but<BR>&gt; information takes on a lot of different forms. Text is only one option. As<BR>I<BR>&gt; mentioned above, it appears that Jesse wants to create an experience. It<BR>&gt; doesn't appear that he wants to write a novel or short story (two ways to<BR>&gt; create such an experience through pure text alone).<BR><BR>Hey, I use Lynx to get graphics from a couple of sites. It's perfectly<BR>possible to get graphics that way. It's just not suitable for *dynamic*<BR>graphics.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, all of this depends on the niche that Jesse wants his<BR>potential<BR>&gt; Traveller site to fill.<BR><BR>True enough. I'm basicly making suggestions with the intent of making<BR>such portions of it as *can* be used with text mode or slow connections<BR>"friendly" to such connections.<BR><BR>As I understand it, it's possible to detect *some* capabilities of the<BR>browser and provide "alternate" pages based on those capabilities.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;And while the people using things like Lynx(text only), Arachne, and<BR>&gt;&gt;NetTamer are a minority, they aren't a small market *especially* since<BR>&gt;&gt;all of those run on things like palmtops.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;And don't forget the fact that cell phones are doing text-only<BR>&gt;&gt;browsing...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Then the web market is going to bifurcate considerably. There's going to<BR>be<BR>&gt; a market for high-bandwidth sites with audio and visual content, and a<BR>&gt; market for low-bandwidth sites for those who can't or won't use such a<BR>&gt; medium. The experience in each market is going to be considerably<BR>different.<BR>&gt; Folks will use portable computers and cell phones to check their email,<BR>&gt; check stock reports and get late-breaking news, while others will use<BR>their<BR>&gt; computer systems at home for something completely different.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Folks have been waiting to do the latter with the internet for quite<BR>some<BR>&gt; time. There have been some faltering steps in that direction: multiplayer<BR>&gt; games of all types, Flash and so on. This isn't new. I used to do ANSI art<BR>&gt; for local BBSes. Even back then there were lots of folks who were pushing<BR>&gt; the limits of the medium toward the visual spectrum.<BR><BR>Oh yeah, I've had the idea of a multiplayer WAN-based space combat game<BR>since the 70s!<BR><BR>But just as news/email and "the web" both *use* the internet, but are<BR>*not* the same thing (nor handled in the same manner), I think certain<BR>amounts of interactivity/graphics/sound really need to be handled as<BR>"seperate but equal".<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Like it or not, various forms of media are constantly being challenged<BR>to<BR>&gt; keep up in an increasingly visual and aural world. Even the medium of<BR>print<BR>&gt; is changing drastically. I don't think that this is necessarily a good<BR>thing<BR>&gt; in most cases, but that is the way things are gravitating.<BR><BR>Well, consider this: Would your arguments be different if my reason for<BR>objecting was because I was *blind*, and the web pages weren't easily<BR>navigable with my screen reader?<BR><BR>The issues for a blind person using a web browser are a bit different,<BR>but they've got many of the same complaints.<BR><BR>And sooner or later, somebody is going to invoke the ADA in a case<BR>where the info *should* have been more accessible.<BR><BR>And consider that even a blind person might be trying to grab a graphic<BR>for a sighted friend.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; However, in the case of the sort of thing Jesse seems to be talking<BR>about,<BR>&gt; I say more power to him. Sure, some folks who rely on a cellphone or<BR>palmtop<BR>&gt; for their internet access might get left out. Sure, some folks who choose<BR>to<BR>&gt; use text-only browsers, for whatever reason, might get left out. However,<BR>&gt; Jesse's considerable skill as a visual artist and designer will really<BR>shine<BR>&gt; through and I suspect that he'll be able to create a site which is both<BR>&gt; unique and stimulating. Denying Jesse the chance to ply his trade because<BR>of<BR>&gt; the limitations of some to view his work is akin to telling a painter not<BR>to<BR>&gt; paint because some folks are blind.<BR><BR>That's *not* what I'm saying.<BR><BR>I'm not saying that he shouldn't do it. Just that he shouldn't do it in<BR>a way that excludes people from stuff they *could* get at if he<BR>maintained some compatability with "older" tech.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Not all media are created equally. Some of them are better than others<BR>at<BR>&gt; communicating different ideas, concepts and information.<BR><BR>Yeah, but adding compatability for those who need/want it can be<BR>useful. On several DVDs, I've found that enabling the subtitles (yes,<BR>English subtitles with English audio!) helped out because I was able to<BR>read the subtitles at points where the sound effects (or mumbling<BR>actors!) made the dialog unintelligible.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:09:08 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: GT: Humaniti vs. Other Names<BR><BR>Uh, folks, when I said the book was called "GT: Humaniti" and not "GT: <BR>Minor Races" I meant that the former is the title already decided on by SJ<BR>Games.&nbsp; I wasn't making a suggestion, I was pointing something out,<BR>specifically that the scope of a book with that title could include the<BR>Sword Worlders, since they are part of humanity.&nbsp; My post had nothing to<BR>do with marketing appealing names, much less political (in)correctness. <BR>Please let's not go there. <BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:06:06 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR><BR>At 12:30 -0500 6/11/00, Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; And the flyer mentions 'free stuff for every attendee',<BR>&gt; &gt; but I don't know what that is.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I think this will be a Pokemon Master Challenge Deck.<BR><BR>;-)<BR><BR>Nah, there's *No Pokemon* at Dragonmeet 2000. Did I forget to mention it?<BR><BR>Actually, I do wonder what the organisers will do if someone started <BR>playing it in the open gaming area...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:12 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;200011052222.QAA42340@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts, especially Eris.<BR><BR>Sounds like a wonderful game... if you ever run it PBeM do let me know :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:14:20 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>Don't know if someone's mentioned this already, but they had a really cool<BR>scenario related to this idea on Pyramid a month or two ago.&nbsp; It involved<BR>a group of characters coming out of cold sleep as part of a "spoil sport" <BR>operation.&nbsp; They are suffering various levels of brain damage, including<BR>memory loss.&nbsp; They wake in a Cheyenne-moutain type base that has suffered<BR>and earth-quake and they are locked in with a crazy mad-man military<BR>type.&nbsp; It was a very nicely detailed adventure complete with maps of the<BR>base and all sorts of fun variants on the basic plot line.&nbsp; It could<BR>easily be plunked into Traveller.<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:36:19 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Don't worry about it.<BR><BR>Peter Trevor puts out on the Ether:<BR>&gt;Okay, I admit "GT: Humaniti" is a snappier title than&nbsp; "GT: Human<BR>&gt;Minor Races" (and I could accept it for that&nbsp; reason&nbsp; alone)&nbsp; but<BR>&gt;your stated reason sounds a little like "political&nbsp; correctness".<BR>&gt;Personally&nbsp; I find "political correctness" as *deeply&nbsp; offensive*<BR>&gt;as racism itself (and other -isms too) ... please, lets not&nbsp; have<BR>&gt;it here.<BR><BR>This is one place I really don't worry about so called 'political correctness.'<BR>This list did produce the Sayat...<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"Raised in a Washington hotel room in his youth, real<BR>life is something Al Gore has read about but not lived."<BR>- -- Dick Morris -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:28:53 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Does 'A bit too familiar' refer to an unfortunate medical situation from<BR>&gt; which you barely recovered, or something entirely unwholesome we'd all<BR>&gt; rather not hear about? :)<BR><BR>Overly familar in that I have been using one for some months now, and<BR>will likely be doing so for the rest of my life.<BR><BR>&gt; What's a CPAP?<BR><BR>Continuous Pressure &lt;something&gt; &lt;something&gt;. There are several other<BR>varieties of &lt;fitb&gt;AP.<BR><BR>First I have to explain *why* I use it. <BR><BR>I've got sleep apnea. That means that when I'm asleep, I have this<BR>nasty tendency to stop breathing. Which then causes my body to note the<BR>lack of oxygen, bringing my back to "almost awake" long enough to start<BR>breathing again. Which makes it impossible to enter a deep sleep state.<BR><BR>This meant that I could sleep 14 hours and *still* be tired. At the<BR>end, just before I *finally* convinced my doctor to refer me to a<BR>specialist, I was doing things like falling asleep *sitting up* at the<BR>computer.<BR><BR>When they tested me, they found that I averaged *90* incidents an hour<BR>(ie I quit breathing an average of 1.5 times a *minute*!). I've got it<BR>pretty bad...<BR><BR>In some cases this is a neurological problem (central apnea). Those<BR>cases require a *real* ventilator to breath for them while they sleep.<BR><BR>In my case, I've got "obstructive apnea". When I fall asleep, some of<BR>the tissues in the respiratory tract "slump" as the muscles relax<BR>(often the back of the tongue is the culprit). So, when I inhale, the<BR>suction pulls them into a position where they block the air passage.<BR><BR>So, now, at night I have this mask that goes over my nose (*not* my<BR>mouth). The CPAP unit provides a small amount of positive pressure.<BR>Just enough that when I inhale, the air is "blown" past the tissues<BR>that are the problem rather than sucked past. That keeps the airway<BR>open. <BR><BR>How small a pressure? In my case, 10 cm of H2O. IE the pressure exerted<BR>by a column of water 10 cm high. That's about 1/100th of an atmosphere.<BR>And it's considered a moderately "high" setting (in fact, none of the<BR>various xxAP units go above 20-25 cm!)<BR><BR>One side benefit. I don't snore anymore (the test graphed the sound<BR>levels in my room among other things, the scale only went to 70 (or was<BR>it 90?) decibels. And most of my snores were offscale)<BR><BR>Oh yeah, about the mask. The hose goes *up* from the mask, not down, so<BR>as to avoid getting in the way while you sleep. This has led to a lot<BR>of folks referring to them as "facehuggers". :-)<BR><BR>So, that's probably more than most of you wanted to know. But I went<BR>into some detail because there might just be one of you who has sleep<BR>apnea or knows someone who might have it. <BR><BR>It's very hard on the body, and can lead to things like an enlarged<BR>heart. It can also kill you by simple suffocation if you get tired<BR>enough and your body doesn't wake up in time. <BR><BR>And it can cause you to fall asleep at the wheel or in other dangerous<BR>situations. <BR><BR>Note that falling asleep at the wrong time is a "late stage" symptom. I<BR>had it for at least 10-12 years before I got that bad. But fatigue<BR>after a reasonable amount of sleep, weight gain, and some other things<BR>are indicators that should be checked out.<BR><BR>If your partner tells you that it sounds like you quit breathing while<BR>you sleep see your doctor.&nbsp; And you shouldn't take "no" for an answer.<BR>Too many doctors seem to think that *all* the symptoms need to be<BR>present before you should be refered. That's utter BS. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:47:18 -0000<BR>From: "Richard Talbot" &lt;abbadon@abbadon.fsnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3261<BR><BR>The freebies at Dragonmeet will be a carrier bag of samples, demos or lite<BR>versions of systems or dice etc.. as far as I am led to believe, similar to<BR>what TSR gave out at early Gencons.<BR><BR>The company I am helping out L&amp;C Games are putting a lite version of their<BR>system Scimitar up for grabs.<BR><BR>Apologies if this post seems off topic.<BR><BR>See ya all at Dragonmeet<BR><BR>Richard Talbot - Kincardine, Scotland - "Yes the place with the famous<BR>bridge"<BR>Personal HomePage: http://www.abbadon.org.uk<BR>Junk email: abbadon@talk21.com<BR>Personal email: salesatancienttomes.co.uk<BR><BR>"A Solitary Soul among Millions"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:54:13 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; A possible in-joke/reference: there was a real Admiral Elphinstone.&nbsp; Who<BR>&gt; &gt; was he?&nbsp; :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dunno.&nbsp; There was a General Elphinstone ("Elphy Bey") in the British army<BR>&gt; in the First Afghan War.&nbsp; There is a fictionalised, but probably reasonably<BR>&gt; fair, portrayal of him in the first of the "Flashman" books.&nbsp; Shall we say<BR>&gt; that in the real world he was not one of history's great commanders?<BR><BR>I'm thinking of a figure out of the Napoleonic Wars, Admiral Lord Keith<BR>(aka George Keith Elphinstone, Viscount Keith).&nbsp; He made vice-admiral in<BR>1795, and commanded several fleets during the Wars.&nbsp; In the end, he was<BR>in charge of sending Napoleon off to exile at St. Helena.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Besides the hint of the "Napoleonic era in space" idea, for some reason<BR>I can't help but be reminded of the Keith brothers....<BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:55:04 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "William 'Commander X' Prankard" &lt;cmdrx@ao.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK toys<BR><BR>&gt;From: John Wood &lt;John@elvw.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;Alan Bradley &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt; writes,<BR>&gt;&gt;Just yesterday I thought of a company that might make a suitable X-TEK<BR>&gt;&gt;subsidiary too: Planetex (PlanetX).&nbsp; I was thinking of using it myself<BR>&gt;&gt;though, after I checked it out on the Net to make sure it didn't exist<BR>in<BR>&gt;the "Real World" (tm).<BR><BR>&gt;There is already an X-TEK subsidiary called Planet X Recordings. I am<BR>&gt;hoping to use it in _101 Corporations_ (any word on that, William?)<BR><BR>This is true.&nbsp; "Planet X" has been used by X-TEK for some time.&nbsp; In the<BR>founding<BR>days of the Imperium, Planet X was a refurbished deep space refueling<BR>depot which<BR>became the first production facility and headquarters for X-TEK.&nbsp; Since<BR>this was an<BR>"Artifical Planet" The Commander took a name from terran<BR>antiquity.&nbsp; "Planet X".<BR>Today these stations are still being built by X-TEK for the Imperial Navy<BR>as Planet<BR>X-class naval production facilities.&nbsp; As a result X-TEK is the sole<BR>supplier of<BR>Illudium Phodex, the shaving cream atom, for the entire Imperium. &lt;WEG&gt;<BR><BR>Planet X recordings is a recent addtion to the X-TEK family of<BR>companies.&nbsp; They are<BR>media producers specializing in music and video entertainment.&nbsp; 2 bands<BR>are<BR>currently being produced.&nbsp; Tir na Nog and Harry's Angels both of which are<BR>on tour<BR>in the Marches.<BR><BR><BR>\\&nbsp; &nbsp; //&nbsp; Commander X<BR>\\&nbsp; //&nbsp;&nbsp; CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>&nbsp; T E K&nbsp;&nbsp; Starship Contractor &amp; High Energy Weapons Research<BR>//&nbsp; \\&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek<BR>//&nbsp; &nbsp; \\&nbsp; 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3262<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (rly-yd03.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.3]) by air-yd03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:56:33 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:56:03 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA43708;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:55:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:55:21 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA43664<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:55:21 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:55:21 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011061955.OAA43664@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3262<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, November 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3263<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>Re: Sleep Apnea<BR>RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>OT CPAP trivia<BR>RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>Re: Dont worry about it<BR>EMP bursts<BR>"Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR>Re: EMP bursts<BR>O.T. was Re: Sleep Apnea<BR>Re: OT CPAP trivia<BR>RE: Sword Worlds<BR>Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups<BR>RE: EMP bursts<BR>Re: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:06:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Continuous Pressure &lt;something&gt; &lt;something&gt;. There are several other<BR>&gt; varieties of &lt;fitb&gt;AP.<BR>&gt; <BR>Continuous Positive Airway Pressure.<BR><BR>&gt; This meant that I could sleep 14 hours and *still* be tired. At the<BR>&gt; end, just before I *finally* convinced my doctor to refer me to a<BR>&gt; specialist, I was doing things like falling asleep *sitting up* at the<BR>&gt; computer.<BR>&gt; <BR>I fell asleep during sex--and not because my lover was unskilled!<BR><BR>&gt; If your partner tells you that it sounds like you quit breathing while<BR>&gt; you sleep see your doctor.&nbsp; And you shouldn't take "no" for an answer.<BR>&gt; Too many doctors seem to think that *all* the symptoms need to be<BR>&gt; present before you should be refered. That's utter BS.<BR><BR>Amen.&nbsp; And you don't have to be huge to have it, and do not listen to them<BR>if they tell you just losing weight will fix it.&nbsp; Losing weight helps, but<BR>chances are, if you have it, you won't lose weight until you get on CPAP,<BR>because you are too tired and too oxygen-starved to DO aerobic exercise<BR>effectively.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:15:25 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>&gt;Okay, I admit "GT: Humaniti" is a snappier title than&nbsp; "GT: Human<BR>&gt;Minor Races" (and I could accept it for that&nbsp; reason&nbsp; alone)&nbsp; but<BR>&gt;your stated reason sounds a little like "political&nbsp; correctness".<BR>&gt;Personally&nbsp; I find "political correctness" as *deeply&nbsp; offensive*<BR>&gt;as racism itself (and other -isms too) ... please, lets not&nbsp; have<BR>&gt;it here.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; John's reasoning sounds less like political correctness and more like<BR>"marketing savvy".<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Political correctness refers to an attempt by some folks to change the<BR>language by substituting less offensive terms for more offensive terms. On<BR>one hand, it's an attempt by minority groups to define their own identity as<BR>opposed to having their identity defined by them. In other cases, it's an<BR>attempt to remind people to be polite and be careful about what they say. In<BR>other cases, it's a well-intentioned but unpleasant attempt to reform the<BR>language by substituting less offensive terms for more offensive terms<BR>currently in use, sometimes via legislation. Of course, the last is self<BR>defeating for a number of reasons (mainly such a tactic doesn't really focus<BR>on the root of the problem, substituting "troubled" for "crazy" simply means<BR>that "troubled" will become perjorative unless people's attitudes about<BR>mental illnesses change).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; John really did none of the above (except maybe #2). He simply thought out<BR>the potential pitfalls of such a title. It is true that, taken out of<BR>context, the term "minor human race" really does sound somewhat sinister.<BR>This is largely due to the fact that most of the populace is unenlightened<BR>when it comes to the fine game known as Traveller. This means that even in a<BR>Traveller setting, such as on the cover of a book for the game, they would<BR>default to the common usage they're familiar with. While we might think of<BR>human sub-groups flung to the stars by the Ancients, most will think of<BR>something quite different.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It's one thing to be aware of the potential problems brought about by a<BR>title, it's another thing entirely to be part of a socio-political movement<BR>to reform the language.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, if John pointed to the fact that "minor human race" is a perjorative<BR>term within the Traveller universe (which is hinted at to some degree in the<BR>Imperial Encyclopedia entry for "minor race", which may be just another<BR>example of political correctness), and the Sayat or the Geonee would be<BR>deeply offended... that would be a different story. :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:29:01 -0600<BR>From: "R. Michael Stephens" &lt;Robert.M.Stephens@vanderbilt.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sleep Apnea<BR><BR>I have it as well, about the same degree that Leonard does.&nbsp; Still<BR>adjusting to my <BR>face hugging friend (as I am fighting with bronchitis at the moment it<BR>is a bit of a struggle).<BR><BR>Not only are finding doctors who will recommend testing a problem --<BR>insurance companies which will <BR>authorize testing are tough.&nbsp;&nbsp; It took me falling asleep at the wheel<BR>and totaling (which isn't<BR>as bad as it sounds but could easily have been) my car before the<BR>insurance company would OK the test.<BR><BR><BR>Leonard also doesn't mention what the stresses of such long term fatigue<BR>do to other health issues<BR>like hypertension and diabetes, but the worst is being constantly dead<BR>on your feet and down right dull mentally.<BR><BR>If you think you may have it -- and if you have a partner you should<BR>have a good idea -- SEE YOUR DOCTOR!!<BR><BR>It is bad enough to know that you might strangle to death in you sleep<BR>but worse to know that you<BR>can easily take others with you.<BR><BR>Enough soap and boxes.<BR><BR>Mike <BR><BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:28:53 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Does 'A bit too familiar' refer to an unfortunate medical situation from<BR>&gt; &gt; which you barely recovered, or something entirely unwholesome we'd all<BR>&gt; &gt; rather not hear about? :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Overly familar in that I have been using one for some months now, and<BR>&gt; will likely be doing so for the rest of my life.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; What's a CPAP?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Continuous Pressure &lt;something&gt; &lt;something&gt;. There are several other<BR>&gt; varieties of &lt;fitb&gt;AP.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; First I have to explain *why* I use it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've got sleep apnea. That means that when I'm asleep, I have this<BR>&gt; nasty tendency to stop breathing. Which then causes my body to note the<BR>&gt; lack of oxygen, bringing my back to "almost awake" long enough to start<BR>&gt; breathing again. Which makes it impossible to enter a deep sleep state.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This meant that I could sleep 14 hours and *still* be tired. At the<BR>&gt; end, just before I *finally* convinced my doctor to refer me to a<BR>&gt; specialist, I was doing things like falling asleep *sitting up* at the<BR>&gt; computer.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; When they tested me, they found that I averaged *90* incidents an hour<BR>&gt; (ie I quit breathing an average of 1.5 times a *minute*!). I've got it<BR>&gt; pretty bad...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In some cases this is a neurological problem (central apnea). Those<BR>&gt; cases require a *real* ventilator to breath for them while they sleep.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In my case, I've got "obstructive apnea". When I fall asleep, some of<BR>&gt; the tissues in the respiratory tract "slump" as the muscles relax<BR>&gt; (often the back of the tongue is the culprit). So, when I inhale, the<BR>&gt; suction pulls them into a position where they block the air passage.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, now, at night I have this mask that goes over my nose (*not* my<BR>&gt; mouth). The CPAP unit provides a small amount of positive pressure.<BR>&gt; Just enough that when I inhale, the air is "blown" past the tissues<BR>&gt; that are the problem rather than sucked past. That keeps the airway<BR>&gt; open.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; How small a pressure? In my case, 10 cm of H2O. IE the pressure exerted<BR>&gt; by a column of water 10 cm high. That's about 1/100th of an atmosphere.<BR>&gt; And it's considered a moderately "high" setting (in fact, none of the<BR>&gt; various xxAP units go above 20-25 cm!)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; One side benefit. I don't snore anymore (the test graphed the sound<BR>&gt; levels in my room among other things, the scale only went to 70 (or was<BR>&gt; it 90?) decibels. And most of my snores were offscale)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Oh yeah, about the mask. The hose goes *up* from the mask, not down, so<BR>&gt; as to avoid getting in the way while you sleep. This has led to a lot<BR>&gt; of folks referring to them as "facehuggers". :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, that's probably more than most of you wanted to know. But I went<BR>&gt; into some detail because there might just be one of you who has sleep<BR>&gt; apnea or knows someone who might have it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's very hard on the body, and can lead to things like an enlarged<BR>&gt; heart. It can also kill you by simple suffocation if you get tired<BR>&gt; enough and your body doesn't wake up in time.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And it can cause you to fall asleep at the wheel or in other dangerous<BR>&gt; situations.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Note that falling asleep at the wrong time is a "late stage" symptom. I<BR>&gt; had it for at least 10-12 years before I got that bad. But fatigue<BR>&gt; after a reasonable amount of sleep, weight gain, and some other things<BR>&gt; are indicators that should be checked out.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If your partner tells you that it sounds like you quit breathing while<BR>&gt; you sleep see your doctor.&nbsp; And you shouldn't take "no" for an answer.<BR>&gt; Too many doctors seem to think that *all* the symptoms need to be<BR>&gt; present before you should be refered. That's utter BS.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR><BR>- -- <BR>R. Michael Stephens&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Systems Software Specialist&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>VUspace Coordinator&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Technical Infrastructure Team<BR>Information Technology Services&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Vanderbilt University<BR>Nashville TN. USA R.M.Stephens@Vanderbilt.Edu 615.343.8780<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:38:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Political correctness refers to an attempt by some folks to change the<BR>&gt; language by substituting less offensive terms for more offensive<BR>&gt; terms. On one hand, it's an attempt by minority groups to define their<BR>&gt; own identity as opposed to having their identity defined by them. In<BR>&gt; other cases, it's an attempt to remind people to be polite and be<BR>&gt; careful about what they say. <BR><BR>That may be what it means when you say it, but 90% of the time political<BR>correctness that I've encountered is good old prissiness, and some of the<BR>most politically correct people I've ever met have no trouble being rude<BR>and insulting and nasty when it comes to people who don't share their<BR>opinions.&nbsp; I've been called all kinds of nasty names by "feminists" of all<BR>genders who are angry that I don't feel oppressed by porn, for instance,<BR>or to whom I've suggested that rather than banning rape scenes &amp; bdsm,<BR>etc. in porn, the best way to make sure that real rapes don't get marketed<BR>as entertainment is not to drive that sort of filmmaking underground into<BR>the hands of the people (I use this term loosely, of course) who produce<BR>snuff films and kiddie porn.<BR><BR>Tell me that "collaborator" or "male-identified" isn't as much of an<BR>insult as "half-breed Jap bitch".&nbsp; At least the person saying the second<BR>one wasn't pretending to be enlightened!<BR><BR>&gt; In other cases, it's a well-intentioned but unpleasant attempt to<BR>&gt; reform the language by substituting less offensive terms for more<BR>&gt; offensive terms currently in use, sometimes via legislation. Of<BR>&gt; course, the last is self defeating for a number of reasons (mainly<BR>&gt; such a tactic doesn't really focus on the root of the problem,<BR>&gt; substituting "troubled" for "crazy" simply means that "troubled" will<BR>&gt; become perjorative unless people's attitudes about mental illnesses<BR>&gt; change).<BR><BR>Hence, junior high and high school students using the term "gay" as a<BR>pejorative "oh, that's so gay" and gay people calling themselves "queers"<BR>in an effort to reclaim the word.<BR><BR>I give up.&nbsp; I agree with you here, Chris (is the world ending?)-- it<BR>doesn't matter what you call a swickerdoodle, if everyone thinks that<BR>swickerdoodles are evil, the new word will become pejorative too.<BR><BR>I really wish people would look at the intent of an utterance.&nbsp; I'd rather<BR>be called "girl" by an old man who means no harm and is totally respectful<BR>than "woman" by someone who can make the word into an insult.&nbsp; And I'd<BR>rather deal with someone who calls me a half-breed Jap bitch than someone<BR>who calls me a *fancy* nasty name and thinks they're saving me from<BR>myself, although I'd PREFER not to deal with either.<BR><BR>::sigh::<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:53:36 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: OT CPAP trivia<BR><BR>A little trivia, sort of related to the perennial copyright/trademark <BR>discussions.<BR><BR>The original CPAP masks (of the improved design used today) were made <BR>in the workshop of my university faculty. I've seen the masters for <BR>the various prototypes. It's an elegant piece of design. Funding came <BR>from the provincial and federal governments, my faculty, the school <BR>of medicine at my university and the private sector. The designers <BR>decided not to patent the final design so it would be free for all to <BR>use. A large pharmaceutical company which provided some funding <BR>patented it and has made a nice bit of money off it. The people in <BR>the medical school and my faculty who designed it didn't get <BR>anything, nor did the university. Everything is perfectly legal, of <BR>course. Other owners of the design neglected to file patent so the <BR>company was perfectly correct to do so. I don't approve, but who <BR>cares about that.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:06:04 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>J Raynor wrote:<BR>&gt; Call it "political correctness," if you prefer, I freely admit<BR>&gt; that it quacks a bit like that particularly duck.&nbsp; On the other<BR>&gt; hand, you could also call it "sensible marketing" just as easily.<BR>&gt; &lt;shrug&gt; I believe there's an old saying that goes "A gentleman<BR>&gt; never offends anyone *unintentionally*", which (in my opinion)<BR>&gt; covers this situation pretty well...<BR><BR>First off, I appologise if my&nbsp; original&nbsp; post&nbsp; came&nbsp; over&nbsp; a&nbsp; bit<BR>strong ... "pc" is one of my buttons.<BR><BR>Second, is there anyone who might take "minor human race" so&nbsp; out<BR>of context as to be offended by it likely to become&nbsp; a&nbsp; Traveller<BR>player if it were called something else?&nbsp; I may be wrong but&nbsp; the<BR>sort of person who would be offend is unlikely to ever be a&nbsp; role<BR>player, let alone a Traveller player.&nbsp; Of all&nbsp; the&nbsp; role&nbsp; players<BR>I've met, from many walks of life and across two continents,&nbsp; the<BR>one thing they all have in common is a&nbsp; sort&nbsp; of&nbsp; mental&nbsp; agility<BR>that allows them to see beyond the superficial.&nbsp; So the marketing<BR>argument seems weak.<BR><BR>Third, pc-activists expect to offended by&nbsp; what&nbsp; you&nbsp; say&nbsp; before<BR>you've said it ... they're just&nbsp; waiting&nbsp; for&nbsp; you&nbsp; to&nbsp; open&nbsp; you<BR>mouth so they can then chastise you.&nbsp; It would&nbsp; be&nbsp; nice&nbsp; not&nbsp; to<BR>offend anyone but when confronted by this 'philosophy' (which&nbsp; in<BR>this situation I realise I wasn't) you end&nbsp; up&nbsp; socially&nbsp; gagged.<BR>My usual response is a pre-emptive 'strike'.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Rob Myers wrote:<BR>&gt; "GT: Non-Aryans" it is, then. We wouldn't want to offend anyone<BR>&gt; who's not used to being offended.<BR>Bravo!<BR><BR><BR><BR>Now this has gone OT and is just clogging up&nbsp; the&nbsp; list&nbsp; so&nbsp; I'll<BR>shut up now.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 08:09:10 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dont worry about it<BR><BR>&gt; From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Don't worry about it.<BR>.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is one place I really don't worry about so called 'political<BR>correctness.'<BR>&gt; This list did produce the Sayat...<BR><BR>I find that ... interesting ... considering that they were invented by a<BR>linguist who went off to Harvard to do textual analysis.<BR><BR>Ian "And Chomsky takes the swing-pass from Levi-Strauss for a 4 yard gain"<BR>Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:13:58 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: EMP bursts<BR><BR>A question's just come up over on the Traveller: Full Thrust list<BR>and I know all the scientists are over here:<BR><BR>If you detonate a nuke in open space do you get an EMP,&nbsp; or&nbsp; does<BR>such only exist in a planet's magnetsphere?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:20:36 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR><BR>Okay, in North America it's known as "Clue!".&nbsp; This makes sense, since the<BR>game is about solving a mystery with clues.&nbsp; But what the heck is the name<BR>"Cluedo" (the european version) about?&nbsp; What does "Cluedo" mean?<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:25:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: EMP bursts<BR><BR>Trevor, Peter writes:<BR>&gt; A question's just come up over on the Traveller: Full Thrust list<BR>&gt; and I know all the scientists are over here:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you detonate a nuke in open space do you get an EMP,&nbsp; or&nbsp; does<BR>&gt; such only exist in a planet's magnetsphere?<BR><BR>IIRC there's some atmospheric interactions, so no, but in practice it really<BR>doesn't matter.&nbsp; Traveller starships may be routinely assumed to be <BR>invulnerable to EMP, starships really do need hardened electronics, <BR>particularly if you're doing weird things like gas giant refueling.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:38:43 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: O.T. was Re: Sleep Apnea<BR><BR>I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you suspect you have sleep apnea<BR>GO SEE A DOCTOR IMMEDIATELY!!!!! I suffered from undiagnosed sleep apnea for<BR>almost 20 years. When I finally got a sleep test (Nov 1998) they found my<BR>oxygen saturation was roughly (average) 68% for the entire time I slept. I<BR>believe the norm is up in the 90% area. I had been complaining of headaches<BR>and tiredness for years with no help. They now feel that it induced severe<BR>tissue damage throughout my body and yes, including my brain (I am Dain<BR>Bramaged). I was unable to use the CPAP although I tried it for four weeks.<BR>They scheduled surgery in Jan 1999 and did a reconstruction of my nasal<BR>passages plus removed soft tissue from the back of my throat. I now have a<BR>totally different problem but still "sleep" related, Fibromyalgia. I haven't<BR>been able to work since July due to PAIN, STIFFNESS (muscle and joint),<BR>PHYSICAL and MENTAL EXHAUSTION. I am in the process of applying for full<BR>disability at age 49. Believe me, you don't want to go there. You've seen<BR>kids &amp; adults that just sit and rock for hours &amp; hours, welcome to my world.<BR>Thank God it's not 24/7, I do get the occasional break for a few days a week<BR>where I am close to normal.<BR><BR>Steppenwolf (old time rock &amp; roll band) had a song on one of their albums<BR>called "Foggy Mental Breakdown", that's my life most days now.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "R. Michael Stephens" &lt;Robert.M.Stephens@vanderbilt.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 3:29 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Sleep Apnea<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Leonard also doesn't mention what the stresses of such long term fatigue<BR>&gt; do to other health issues<BR>&gt; like hypertension and diabetes, but the worst is being constantly dead<BR>&gt; on your feet and down right dull mentally.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you think you may have it -- and if you have a partner you should<BR>&gt; have a good idea -- SEE YOUR DOCTOR!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mike<BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:28:53 PST<BR>&gt; &gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder :<BR>help!)<BR>&gt; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Does 'A bit too familiar' refer to an unfortunate medical situation<BR>from<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; which you barely recovered, or something entirely unwholesome we'd all<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; rather not hear about? :)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Overly familar in that I have been using one for some months now, and<BR>&gt; &gt; will likely be doing so for the rest of my life.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; What's a CPAP?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Continuous Pressure &lt;something&gt; &lt;something&gt;. There are several other<BR>&gt; &gt; varieties of &lt;fitb&gt;AP.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; First I have to explain *why* I use it.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I've got sleep apnea. That means that when I'm asleep, I have this<BR>&gt; &gt; nasty tendency to stop breathing. Which then causes my body to note the<BR>&gt; &gt; lack of oxygen, bringing my back to "almost awake" long enough to start<BR>&gt; &gt; breathing again. Which makes it impossible to enter a deep sleep state.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; This meant that I could sleep 14 hours and *still* be tired. At the<BR>&gt; &gt; end, just before I *finally* convinced my doctor to refer me to a<BR>&gt; &gt; specialist, I was doing things like falling asleep *sitting up* at the<BR>&gt; &gt; computer.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; When they tested me, they found that I averaged *90* incidents an hour<BR>&gt; &gt; (ie I quit breathing an average of 1.5 times a *minute*!). I've got it<BR>&gt; &gt; pretty bad...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In some cases this is a neurological problem (central apnea). Those<BR>&gt; &gt; cases require a *real* ventilator to breath for them while they sleep.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In my case, I've got "obstructive apnea". When I fall asleep, some of<BR>&gt; &gt; the tissues in the respiratory tract "slump" as the muscles relax<BR>&gt; &gt; (often the back of the tongue is the culprit). So, when I inhale, the<BR>&gt; &gt; suction pulls them into a position where they block the air passage.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; So, now, at night I have this mask that goes over my nose (*not* my<BR>&gt; &gt; mouth). The CPAP unit provides a small amount of positive pressure.<BR>&gt; &gt; Just enough that when I inhale, the air is "blown" past the tissues<BR>&gt; &gt; that are the problem rather than sucked past. That keeps the airway<BR>&gt; &gt; open.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; One side benefit. I don't snore anymore (the test graphed the sound<BR>&gt; &gt; levels in my room among other things, the scale only went to 70 (or was<BR>&gt; &gt; it 90?) decibels. And most of my snores were offscale)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Oh yeah, about the mask. The hose goes *up* from the mask, not down, so<BR>&gt; &gt; as to avoid getting in the way while you sleep. This has led to a lot<BR>&gt; &gt; of folks referring to them as "facehuggers". :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It's very hard on the body, and can lead to things like an enlarged<BR>&gt; &gt; heart. It can also kill you by simple suffocation if you get tired<BR>&gt; &gt; enough and your body doesn't wake up in time.<BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:53:22 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT CPAP trivia<BR><BR>Gordon Horne wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A little trivia, sort of related to the perennial copyright/trademark<BR>&gt; discussions.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The original CPAP masks (of the improved design used today) were made<BR>&gt; in the workshop of my university faculty. I've seen the masters for<BR>&gt; the various prototypes. It's an elegant piece of design. Funding came<BR>&gt; from the provincial and federal governments, my faculty, the school<BR>&gt; of medicine at my university and the private sector. The designers<BR>&gt; decided not to patent the final design so it would be free for all to<BR>&gt; use. A large pharmaceutical company which provided some funding<BR>&gt; patented it and has made a nice bit of money off it.<BR><BR>This is why, foex, researchers at most schools and non-profit<BR>institutions aren't allowed to make those decisions. <BR><BR>The thing to have done was to patent it, then make the patent licencing<BR>fees 'zero'. This way no one gets to scoop it up and hog it, like the<BR>pharmaceutical company.<BR><BR>OTOH, given the increasingly restrictive language built into<BR>industry:academia contracts these days, the pharm. company would have<BR>gotten the design anyway. Most of them have first right of patent on<BR>anything coming out of the research they fund; worse, they often claim<BR>first right of publication...meaning if you test their hot new whizbang<BR>drug and find it kills half the people who use it, they can effectively<BR>gag you, and prevent you from publishing that information. Worse, they<BR>can sue you to bankruptcy in a heartbeat if you tell _any_one about<BR>that.<BR><BR>It's SO much fun living on a balkanized corporate world... :-(<BR><BR>oBTrav. This would only be worse in the 3I;&nbsp; probably 90% of all<BR>corporate IP is 'trade secret' rather than patent-protected, given the<BR>volume of prior art that would have to be examined.<BR><BR>Also, trade secrets mean that if your competitor comes out with wigetry<BR>that loks suspiciously like yours, you can't just go running into court<BR>crying foul. Court-ordered discovery is _hell_ on trade secrets, and<BR>besides, court proceeedings, in the main, are matters of public record.<BR><BR>It would be far to easy to abuse such a system, by 'leaking' a design to<BR>a competitor, filing suit when they start producing your widgets, and<BR>using the discovery process to ransack their records.<BR><BR>Of course, you are exposed to the same thing, but you were forewarned.<BR><BR>Of course, this means industrial espionage, corporate 'headhunting',<BR>corpwars, and other delightful cyberpunkish type scenarios are quite<BR>common.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:08:47 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Smart, David J (David) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Mark Urbin posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Not the big threat"?!?!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As I recall, they kicked some *serious* Imperial butt in Lanth<BR>&gt; subsector during the Fifth Frontier War. If they'd had Jump-5<BR>&gt; capable fleets or a better refueling scheme (or both) to get <BR>&gt; across the empty space in Lanth, Rhylanor would have had a <BR>&gt; *really* bad year.<BR><BR>Yeah, and if the Darrians hadn't wiped themselves out with a<BR>poorly planned astrophysical experiment, they would probably be <BR>the dominant branch of Humaniti...<BR><BR>Even if you assume that they can overcome their tendency to<BR>squabble and indulge in pointless fratricidal warfare, the <BR>Swordies have at least two more *big* hurdles to leap over<BR>before they can become a significant military power:<BR><BR>(1) They have only one type-A starport, at Gram, a Tech <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Level 11 world.<BR><BR>(2) The most advanced world in the Confederation, Sacnoth, is<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; only a Tech Level 12 world, and has a type-B starport.<BR><BR>Judging from the UWPs in "The Spinward Marches Campaign,"<BR>the Swordies stink of Graustark and Grand Fenwick...<BR><BR>Frankly, I wonder how each world in the Confederation manages<BR>to keep its own planetary fleet aloft.&nbsp; Given their desire <BR>for planetary independence, it's hard to imagine them all<BR>buying their jump drives from manufacturers on Sacnoth.&nbsp; On<BR>the other hand, small-scale interstellar warfare would be<BR>hard, if all those type-B starports were cranking out nothing<BR>but system defense boats.&nbsp; It's hard to see the Imperium <BR>selling the Swordies jump drives big enough to install aboard<BR>significant military vessels.&nbsp; The Zhodani?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:30:20 -0600<BR>From: Sinbad Sam &lt;sinbad@hex.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>At 03:44 PM 11/03/2000, Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt;&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR><BR>Someone with Sleep Apnea maybe....&lt;G&gt;<BR><BR>Former Field Service Engineer for a major Ventilator manufacturer...<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:17:19 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:12:19 +0200 (EET)<BR>&gt; From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I would assume that TL15 could be enough to genetically modify people for<BR>&gt; different environments, but are people in the 3I ready to do this?<BR><BR>Yes and apparently yes.&nbsp; The Jonkeereen are a canonical example, geneered<BR>for settlement of desert worlds.&nbsp; (They were detailed in TNE:Regency<BR>Sourcebook, and get a mention in the Quopist/Lanth entry of GT:Behind the<BR>Claw, but without explanation of who they are.&nbsp; Do they show up elsewhere<BR>in GT?)<BR><BR>&gt; Why doesn't IMoC use dolphins for this? Or an other aquatic species?<BR><BR>The dolphins are all making too much money as astrogators? :)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Here's to the struggles of the silent war,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; here's to the closing of the age." -The Call<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:17:57 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: EMP bursts<BR><BR>Anthony Jackso wrote:<BR>&gt; Trevor, Peter writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; A question's just come up over on the Traveller: Full Thrust list<BR>&gt; &gt; and I know all the scientists are over here:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; If you detonate a nuke in open space do you get an EMP,&nbsp; or&nbsp; does<BR>&gt; &gt; such only exist in a planet's magnetsphere?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; IIRC there's some atmospheric interactions, so no, but in practice<BR>&gt; it really doesn't matter.&nbsp; Traveller starships may be routinely<BR>&gt; assumed to be invulnerable to EMP, starships really do need<BR>&gt; hardened electronics, particularly if you're doing weird things<BR>&gt; like gas giant refueling.<BR><BR>I was thinking less of frying&nbsp; a&nbsp; ship's&nbsp; electronics,&nbsp; and&nbsp; more<BR>about a temporary sensor "white&nbsp; out"&nbsp; effect&nbsp; (as&nbsp; mentioned&nbsp; in<BR>Brilliant Lances).<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:28:47 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR><BR>&gt;Okay, in North America it's known as "Clue!".&nbsp; This makes sense, since the<BR>&gt;game is about solving a mystery with clues.&nbsp; But what the heck is the name<BR>&gt;"Cluedo" (the european version) about?&nbsp; What does "Cluedo" mean?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Charles C.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>It's a play on the words "Clue" and "Ludo". Ludo is a Latin word (I think) <BR>which means "to play".<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3263<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, November 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3264<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Trimming my collection<BR>Re: GT: Humaniti vs. the Sword Worlds<BR>Re: EMP bursts<BR>Re: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR>RE: Sword Worlds<BR>RE: Views<BR>Re: GT: Humaniti vs. the Sword Worlds<BR>Re: Views<BR>Re: Sword Worlds<BR>Re: Sleep Apnea<BR>Re: Sleep Apnea<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>Re: Views<BR>Re: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR>Re: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR>Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>Re: OT CPAP trivia<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:25:26 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Glenn asked:<BR>&gt;While you're thinking about<BR>&gt;small arms, would you mind taking a crack at Striker statistics for the<BR>&gt;automatic rocket launcher.&nbsp; It's in JTAS no. 11 or 12, I think.&nbsp; It's a TL<BR>&gt;10, higher caliber, fully automatic, version of the accelerator rifle, with<BR>&gt;a variety of rounds (including HEAP).&nbsp; TL 10 makes it perfect for Mongo.<BR><BR>The original article is in JTAS 17 ("Exotic Atmospheres" issue), part of that<BR>issue's Ship's Locker (pp 14-15).<BR><BR>The ARL also appears in MT:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Pen/&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Max&nbsp; &nbsp; Auto&nbsp; Dngr&nbsp; Signa-<BR>Name&nbsp; Ammo&nbsp; Rds&nbsp; Atten&nbsp; Dmg&nbsp; Rng&nbsp; &nbsp; Tgts&nbsp; Spc&nbsp;&nbsp; ture&nbsp; Recoil&nbsp; Diff As<BR>ARL&nbsp;&nbsp; HE&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 5/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; V Long 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Low&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle**<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; HEAP&nbsp; 20&nbsp;&nbsp; 10/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; V Long 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1.5&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Low&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle**<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; KEAP&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 8/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; V Long 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1.5&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Low&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle**<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; gas&nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; ---&nbsp;&nbsp; 2#&nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Low&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle**<BR>** Treat weapon as gyro-stabilised.<BR># See gas rule (below)<BR><BR>Interestingly, MT does not include stats for the gas rounds - so I added them!<BR>The article assigns 2D (special) damage to the gas. The rule is:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Gas rounds inflict this [2D] damage once per round for two combat rounds;<BR>such damage wears off after one hour. Adjacent targets are attacked as if by an<BR>HE round (See Book 4, _Mercenary_, page 32.)"<BR><BR>It is single-shot or auto (switchable), with each auto burst using 4 rounds.<BR>"Sustained autofire (over 8 consecutive combat rounds) may only be performed<BR>with the squad-support version of the ARL."<BR><BR>Another item of interest is that my version of the article has pencilled-in<BR>_Striker_ stats along the top. I don't know their source (even though it looks<BR>like my handwriting ;-), but they look like this:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Base Pen&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eff&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20(10)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 50(5)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 70(2)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20(5)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50(2)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 70(1)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20(8)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50(4)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 70(2)<BR><BR>The notation means: Range in tens of metres (Penetration). However, I think my<BR>figures are off. The max range is 1000 metres, as stated in the article. The<BR>other thing I noticed is that maybe short range should be 250 m, not 200.<BR><BR>Comparing this to the MT stats, we have:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Pen/&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-5m&nbsp; &nbsp; 5-50m&nbsp; &nbsp; 50-250m&nbsp; 250-500m&nbsp; [500m-5km&nbsp; 5-50km]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Atten&nbsp; Short&nbsp;&nbsp; Medium&nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; V Long&nbsp; &nbsp; [Distant&nbsp;&nbsp; V Dist]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 10/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ]<BR><BR>Notice how close the figures are, in comparison. Also notice, however, that in<BR>MT it can't fire at targets over 500m away! One of my gripes with MT combat is<BR>that Distant and V Dist are too grainy in scale. For example, a _Striker_ gauss<BR>rifle only fires out to 1800 m, but in MT it can supposedly fire out to Distant<BR>(5 km).<BR><BR>So, to fix it for _Striker_, maybe the table should be thus:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Base Pen&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eff&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25(10)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 50(5)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 100(2)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25(5)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50(2)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 100(1)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25(8)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50(4)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 100(2)<BR><BR>This seems a better fit.<BR><BR><BR>And to address the shotgun question, remember that the MT shotguns are missing<BR>the stats for their "bullet" rounds:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Pen/&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Max&nbsp; &nbsp; Auto&nbsp; Dngr&nbsp; Signa-<BR>Name&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ammo&nbsp;&nbsp; Rds&nbsp; Atten&nbsp; Dmg&nbsp; Rng&nbsp; &nbsp; Tgts&nbsp; Spc&nbsp;&nbsp; ture&nbsp; Recoil&nbsp; Diff As<BR>Shotgun&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; bullet 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 3/1&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; Medium ---&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.5&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Med&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle<BR>Autoshotgun&nbsp; bullet 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 3/1&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; Medium 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1.5&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Med&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 18:50:53 -0500<BR>From: "Robert S. Dean" &lt;rsdean@erols.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Trimming my collection<BR><BR>Hello all.<BR><BR>I'm trying to clear out some stuff from my all-too-cluttered<BR>house, and have come to the conclusion that my Challenge<BR>collection is surplus.&nbsp; I've got what I'll call "reading<BR>copies" of 25-72.&nbsp; (Almost all are in good shape, but I'm not<BR>going to itemize them, and I've got one or two that are <BR>shedding covers.)&nbsp; I've also got a spare set of Grenadier<BR>25mm Imperial Marines.&nbsp; Best offer by, say, Friday gets <BR>either.&nbsp; (Separately, please.)&nbsp; Postage is extra, especially<BR>if overseas.&nbsp; Don't reply to the list!<BR><BR>Rob Dean<BR>rsdean@erols.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:07:31<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Humaniti vs. the Sword Worlds<BR><BR>Since the Swordies are simply a Solomani offshoot culture, and not a<BR>seperate, Ancient-seeded, minor race, I agree that they don't really belong<BR>in the Humaniti book.<BR><BR>What I'd like to see is a Sword Worlds/Darrians sourcebook, as I've<BR>mentioned elsewhere.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:12 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: EMP bursts<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;D92025C710FAD111B8030000F808606801B25256@MSX1&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Yes you will get an EMP from a nuclear detonation, but there is sufficient <BR>radiation knocking around that the pertinent parts of a starship will be <BR>shielded against its effects.<BR><BR>Going for a spacewalk at the wrong moment is not recommended, however :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 18:30:11 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Seriously, I count myself lucky my significant other has a Jones jones ;)<BR><BR>&lt;pull pin, throw grenade&gt;<BR><BR>Would a Drug Drug addict be likely to have a Jones jones?<BR><BR>&lt;duck behind hard cover&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:54:06 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Smart, David J (David)" <BR>&gt; The Vargr can be contained because their inherent cultural<BR>&gt; aspects defeat the rise of a centralized government. The<BR>&gt; Sworld Worlds *can* be united by a single leader; it may<BR>&gt; take alot of finesse but it has a much greater chance<BR>&gt; of happening (IMO, of course).<BR><BR>Hang on a second.&nbsp; The Swordies are a handful of worlds, none of which have<BR>a particularly impressive TL.<BR><BR>On the other hand, there are canonical Vargr states that are much, much<BR>larger, and higher tech, too.&nbsp; Granted, none of them exist on the Imperial<BR>border in the Marches in 1105-1120, but the whole point of the Oekhsos<BR>stuff is that it could create one.&nbsp; There have been other biggies too, of<BR>course - the Oekhsos handwave is just one possible solution to the unity<BR>problem.<BR><BR>So the Vargr _can_ be a much more serious threat than the Swordies.&nbsp; That<BR>doesn't mean the Swordies aren't a threat.<BR><BR>I actually agree that the Swordies have been neglected.&nbsp; Worse than this,<BR>TNE, and to a lesser extent GT, have tended to dismiss them as cartoonish<BR>rednecks.&nbsp; Granted, there <BR>are aspects of their society which are a bit like that, but their society<BR>is one which has existed and survived for a very long time, and must<BR>therefore have _something_ going for it.<BR><BR>I would suggest that they do need to be revisited in some depth.&nbsp; This new<BR>look at them should preferably not involve painting them as fools, but as a<BR>viable civilisation, or at least one that is seeking ways to remain viable.<BR>I would also like to see their culture being shared by worlds within the<BR>Imperium.&nbsp; We know that former Sword Worlds like Margesi are in the<BR>Imperium, that Tanoose was originally settled by Swordies, and that the<BR>maps of the early settlement of the Marches show little areas around the<BR>current Sword Worlds that could either be early Imperial enclaves, or could<BR>be lost Sword Worlds territories.&nbsp; I think that it's probably some of each.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:56:04 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Chris wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; However, in the case of the sort of thing Jesse seems to be talking about,<BR>&gt;I say more power to him. Sure, some folks who rely on a cellphone or palmtop<BR>&gt;for their internet access might get left out. Sure, some folks who choose to<BR>&gt;use text-only browsers, for whatever reason, might get left out. However,<BR>&gt;Jesse's considerable skill as a visual artist and designer will really shine<BR>&gt;through and I suspect that he'll be able to create a site which is both<BR>&gt;unique and stimulating. Denying Jesse the chance to ply his trade because of<BR>&gt;the limitations of some to view his work is akin to telling a painter not to<BR>&gt;paint because some folks are blind.<BR><BR>Amen! Preach it, bro', preach it!<BR><BR>Jesse, I expect to see a full fly-through of an AHL, with the ability to exit an<BR>airlock while attached to that monstrosity (it's big!) of a Vegan highport, and<BR>"walk" through the concourse, while viewing a selection of the alien races I'm<BR>likely to encounter there. Maybe even a tour of the Tigress that is docked on<BR>the other side of the highport "arm".<BR><BR>I mean really, is that too much to ask?<BR><BR>;-) ;-)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:51:53 -0500<BR>From: michael stasica &lt;stosh@sympatico.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Humaniti vs. the Sword Worlds<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Since the Swordies are simply a Solomani offshoot culture, and not a<BR>&gt; seperate, Ancient-seeded, minor race, I agree that they don't really belong<BR>&gt; in the Humaniti book.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What I'd like to see is a Sword Worlds/Darrians sourcebook, as I've<BR>&gt; mentioned elsewhere.<BR><BR>Heck, I hope someone is listening to this cause I would certainly pay good<BR>money for a source book<BR>like this.&nbsp; In the years that I have been involved with this game none of my<BR>campaigns have ever had<BR>a scope greater than subsector, usually far smaller a few systems at most.&nbsp; For<BR>my money the best<BR>books I ever picked up were The Traveller Adventure and the Darrians from the<BR>CT era.&nbsp; Although<BR>most of the players that I ran games for read the Traveller News Service items<BR>in Challenge religiously<BR>never once did anyone even joke about a Grand Tour of the Imperium.<BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:59:13 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR>Jesse,<BR><BR>Your art is one of the things that fired me up on Traveller again.&nbsp; The<BR>cable-modem is the best things I've had since I got online back in 1996.<BR>What will put Traveller on the cutting edge of roleplaying is the TML<BR>efforts like yours.&nbsp; I think you should try to make that ultimate traveller<BR>experience.&nbsp; My brother and I have been comiling ideas and stuff for the<BR>last three years in support of our own efort.&nbsp; Eventually, we'll go online<BR>(once we figure out this HTML crap).<BR>In the meantime, we look to you for inspiration.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 03:16:56 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>John P. Raynor writes:<BR>&gt;...the Swordies have at least two more *big* hurdles to leap over<BR>&gt;before they can become a significant military power:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(1) They have only one type-A starport, at Gram, a Tech <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Level 11 world.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(2) The most advanced world in the Confederation, Sacnoth, is<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; only a Tech Level 12 world, and has a type-B starport.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;[...]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Frankly, I wonder how each world in the Confederation manages to keep its own<BR>&gt;planetary fleet aloft.&nbsp; Given their desire for planetary independence, it's<BR>&gt;hard to imagine them all buying their jump drives from manufacturers on<BR>&gt;Sacnoth.&nbsp; On the other hand, small-scale interstellar warfare would be hard,<BR>&gt;if all those type-B starports were cranking out nothing but system defense<BR>&gt;boats.<BR><BR>They don't need to. There's a rule (either in Book 2 or in High Guard) allowing<BR>worlds with the required TL to build starships regardless of their starport<BR>class. Starport class appears to be a civilian matter. Nothing to do with naval<BR>capacity.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:20:47 -0800<BR>From: Bill &lt;beast@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sleep Apnea<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:28:53 PST<BR>&gt;&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Does 'A bit too familiar' refer to an unfortunate medical situation from<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; which you barely recovered, or something entirely unwholesome we'd all<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; rather not hear about? :)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Overly familar in that I have been using one for some months now, and<BR>&gt;&gt; will likely be doing so for the rest of my life.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; What's a CPAP?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Continuous Pressure &lt;something&gt; &lt;something&gt;. There are several other<BR>&gt; &gt; varieties of &lt;fitb&gt;AP.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>CPAP = Continuous Positive Airway Pressure<BR><BR>I have also been diagnosed with Sleep Apnia. I am just new to this <BR>area of health issues although my father has been using the face <BR>hugger for several years. I have looked into several models of the <BR>"mask" none of which I can wear to sleep in. I don't like wearing <BR>hats either. My doctor wanted me to start using medications to get me <BR>to sleep and then to get me going... I said no way Not going there. <BR>He then suggested wearing a t-shirt, backwards, with a tennis ball in <BR>the pocket. Yet another way to keep me from getting what little sleep <BR>I was actually able to get. I asked for a copy of my sleep study and <BR>am seeking other options. My doctor did say one thing that made <BR>sense. Lose weight!. So we'll see<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:54:33 -0600<BR>From: Sinbad Sam &lt;sinbad@hex.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sleep Apnea<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;CPAP = Continuous Positive Airway Pressure<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I have also been diagnosed with Sleep Apnia. I am just new to this area of health issues although my father has been using the face hugger for several years. I have looked into several models of the "mask" none of which I can wear to sleep in. I don't like wearing hats either. My doctor wanted me to start using medications to get me to sleep and then to get me going... I said no way Not going there. He then suggested wearing a t-shirt, backwards, with a tennis ball in the pocket. Yet another way to keep me from getting what little sleep I was actually able to get. I asked for a copy of my sleep study and am seeking other options. My doctor did say one thing that made sense. Lose weight!. So we'll see<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Bill<BR><BR>Bill,<BR><BR>I worked with an engineer who had an interesting solution for his sleep apnea, he has a permanent "trach tube" installed in this throat. He has it "plugged" during the waking hours, then unplugged it when he went to sleep. The only complaint being that the air inhaled via the "trach" was very dry and colder than via the nasal passages. He wears an ascot or a high collar to conceal his "trach". I worked with him for over a week and never knew he had a "trach". He had gone thru all of the face huggers, tennis balls in the shirt, lost weight etc. He adjusted to the "trach' very well, and preferred to the face huggers.<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:16:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I had the following thought for a game. The characters wake up in some<BR>&gt;&gt; non-descript surroundings wearing non-descript clothes, but without any<BR>&gt;&gt; memories of who they are, where they are, and so forth<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; [snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; To implement this, the players start with no knowledge of their character<BR>&gt;&gt; except an incomplete UPP. As play progresses, they learn more about<BR>&gt;&gt; themselves and their abilities. "As you get into the air/raft, you realize<BR>&gt;&gt; that you have flown a similar vehicle before. The controls seem familliar<BR>&gt;&gt; enough for you to fly it. (Make a note of air/raft-2 skill.)"<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Has anyone tried this, or a similar concept?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I once ran a game where the character began by coming to conscienceness in a<BR>&gt; rest room.&nbsp; They had no memory of who they were or how they got there.&nbsp; They<BR>&gt; were handcuffed to a dead NPC, the victim of a close range gunshot.&nbsp; A gun<BR>&gt; was lying nearby.&nbsp; Searching the body, the player found a handcuff key and a<BR>&gt; police badge...<BR><BR>I'd unlock the cuffs. After that, my actions diverge...<BR><BR>As *me*, I'd wipe down anything I touched and scoot. *Without* taking<BR>anything. <BR><BR>As a PC, I'd take the badge, cuffs and keys. Whether or not I'd take<BR>the gun would depend on whether or not I thought the wound (due to<BR>powder burns, location, angle, etc) looked like an even *minimally*<BR>plausible suicide attempt. <BR><BR>If suicide might pass casual observation, I'd leave the gun. If not,<BR>I'd take it. <BR><BR>Either way, I'd probably take any ID &amp; money. Among other things, that<BR>make "robbery" a likely explanation to be investigated by the cops. At<BR>least until they ID the body.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:24:02 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; What's a CPAP?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; A ventilator people with sleep apnea use so that they get sufficient<BR>&gt; oxygenation during the night.&nbsp; On the one hand, you feel 2000% better when<BR>&gt; you use it, and you're not at risk for heart attacks; on the other hand,<BR>&gt; it is a bitch to lug around and keep clean so that you don't end up<BR>&gt; breathing pollen or getting zits all over your nose.<BR><BR>The filters don't have to be changed that often (the manufacturer<BR>recommends every six months, the doctor recommends every month or two).<BR>And I find that my allergies are a lot better since I'm breathing well<BR>filtered air 8 hours a day now.<BR><BR>The cleaning instructions are, shall we say, "overly anal". :-)<BR><BR>And my unit (and the humidifier attachment) fits easily into a shoulder<BR>bag. It's lighter than a lot of older laptops!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:28:31 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 03:44 PM 11/03/2000, Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Someone with Sleep Apnea maybe....&lt;G&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Former Field Service Engineer for a major Ventilator manufacturer...<BR><BR>ResMed by any chance?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:30:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Does 'A bit too familiar' refer to an unfortunate medical situation<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; from which you barely recovered, or something entirely unwholesome<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; we'd all rather not hear about? :)<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; What's a CPAP?<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; A ventilator people with sleep apnea use so that they get sufficient<BR>&gt;&gt; oxygenation during the night.&nbsp; On the one hand, you feel <BR>&gt;&gt; 2000% better when<BR>&gt;&gt; you use it, and you're not at risk for heart attacks; on the <BR>&gt;&gt; other hand,<BR>&gt;&gt; it is a bitch to lug around and keep clean so that you don't end up<BR>&gt;&gt; breathing pollen or getting zits all over your nose.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;\searching: Sleep Apnea&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;\Reading&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh, sounds nasty. You learn something new every day.<BR><BR>*Treated*, it's less annoying than many chronic conditions.<BR>*Untreated*, nasty is an understatement.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Is that a piece of medical gear that passenger has? Or<BR>something more sinister? Will an overly paranoid crew member jump to<BR>conclusions when he sees an odd sort of breathing mask among a<BR>passenger's gear?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:34:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Views<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Didn't mean to invoke a flamewar :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; To clarify, I DO intend to have a text only version that has links to the<BR>&gt; graphics for our "browser-impaired" brethren ;)&nbsp; This will be selectable<BR>&gt; from the "front door" of the site.&nbsp; While it will cut down on the experience<BR>&gt; that I'm aiming for, there will still be enough there to make it worth it.<BR>&gt; Another thought I'd had for the low-bandwidth version is to have a contact<BR>&gt; sheet graphic available.&nbsp; This would give you a small thumbnail and the name<BR>&gt; of picture (co-inciding with the link) so that you can decide which shots<BR>&gt; you'd like to take a closer look at.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Currently, my site is incredibly sloppy.&nbsp; It was never meant to last in it's<BR>&gt; current form beyond a couple of months.&nbsp; Two years later and it's still in<BR>&gt; it's original state.&nbsp; The gallery is particularly incidious in that I just<BR>&gt; keep tacking images on to the bottom.&nbsp; In the next rev, there will be a<BR>&gt; maximum number of images per gallery page, with a corresponding contact<BR>&gt; sheet, so that the download times aren't as bad.&nbsp; The gallery sections will<BR>&gt; be seperate from the "experience" portion, as will the news page that'll let<BR>&gt; you know what's up without having to sit through the intro movie ;)<BR><BR>Bravo! Sounds like you've got a good framework in mind. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:38:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 12:30 -0500 6/11/00, Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; And the flyer mentions 'free stuff for every attendee',<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; but I don't know what that is.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I think this will be a Pokemon Master Challenge Deck.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nah, there's *No Pokemon* at Dragonmeet 2000. Did I forget to mention it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, I do wonder what the organisers will do if someone started <BR>&gt; playing it in the open gaming area...<BR><BR>Inform them that the "Convention Security" card takes all decks in<BR>play? &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:40:26 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Seriously, I count myself lucky my significant other has a Jones jones ;)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;pull pin, throw grenade&gt;<BR><BR>Sounds more like "pull pin and throw" to me. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; Would a Drug Drug addict be likely to have a Jones jones?<BR><BR>That's drug drug jones jones.<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;duck behind hard cover&gt;<BR><BR>Pity that mortars go *over* hard cover...<BR><BR>Isn't high angle fire *fun*?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:43:07 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Political correctness refers to an attempt by some folks to change the<BR>&gt;&gt; language by substituting less offensive terms for more offensive<BR>&gt;&gt; terms. On one hand, it's an attempt by minority groups to define their<BR>&gt;&gt; own identity as opposed to having their identity defined by them. In<BR>&gt;&gt; other cases, it's an attempt to remind people to be polite and be<BR>&gt;&gt; careful about what they say. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That may be what it means when you say it, but 90% of the time political<BR>&gt; correctness that I've encountered is good old prissiness, and some of the<BR>&gt; most politically correct people I've ever met have no trouble being rude<BR>&gt; and insulting and nasty when it comes to people who don't share their<BR>&gt; opinions.&nbsp; I've been called all kinds of nasty names by "feminists" of all<BR>&gt; genders who are angry that I don't feel oppressed by porn, for instance,<BR>&gt; or to whom I've suggested that rather than banning rape scenes &amp; bdsm,<BR>&gt; etc. in porn, the best way to make sure that real rapes don't get marketed<BR>&gt; as entertainment is not to drive that sort of filmmaking underground into<BR>&gt; the hands of the people (I use this term loosely, of course) who produce<BR>&gt; snuff films and kiddie porn.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tell me that "collaborator" or "male-identified" isn't as much of an<BR>&gt; insult as "half-breed Jap bitch".&nbsp; At least the person saying the second<BR>&gt; one wasn't pretending to be enlightened!<BR><BR>Crimethought! Double-plus ungood!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:47:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT CPAP trivia<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; A little trivia, sort of related to the perennial copyright/trademark <BR>&gt; discussions.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The original CPAP masks (of the improved design used today) were made <BR>&gt; in the workshop of my university faculty. I've seen the masters for <BR>&gt; the various prototypes. It's an elegant piece of design. Funding came <BR>&gt; from the provincial and federal governments, my faculty, the school <BR>&gt; of medicine at my university and the private sector. The designers <BR>&gt; decided not to patent the final design so it would be free for all to <BR>&gt; use. A large pharmaceutical company which provided some funding <BR>&gt; patented it and has made a nice bit of money off it. The people in <BR>&gt; the medical school and my faculty who designed it didn't get <BR>&gt; anything, nor did the university. Everything is perfectly legal, of <BR>&gt; course. Other owners of the design neglected to file patent so the <BR>&gt; company was perfectly correct to do so. I don't approve, but who <BR>&gt; cares about that.<BR><BR>Now you know why the GNU GPL exists. And why I will not release<BR>software as "public domain". I've got no problem with folks using code<BR>for free (though I'd rather get paid :-), but I have a *real* problem<BR>with folks making money off of my work.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3264<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (rly-zd05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.229]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:18:16 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:17:56 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA82267;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:15:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:15:11 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA82194<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:15:10 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:15:10 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011070315.WAA82194@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3264<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, November 7 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3265<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>high TL med stuff (was Re: Sleep Apnea)<BR>Re: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR>Re: building starships (was Re: Sword Worlds)<BR>On of the good points...<BR>calling Jesse<BR>Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR>RE: Views<BR>RE: Views<BR>RE: Views<BR>Re: Nobles for Loren<BR>OT: Movies (was RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW ))<BR>Re: calling Jesse<BR>RE: calling Jesse<BR>Re: Movies (was RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW))<BR>Re : Sleep apnoea (longish)<BR>RE: Views<BR>RE: calling Jesse<BR>RE: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR>RE: Movies (was RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW))<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:55:53 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: high TL med stuff (was Re: Sleep Apnea)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I have it as well, about the same degree that Leonard does.&nbsp; Still<BR>&gt; adjusting to my <BR>&gt; face hugging friend (as I am fighting with bronchitis at the moment it<BR>&gt; is a bit of a struggle).<BR><BR>It occurs to me that a TL-15 CPAP equivalent intended for use while<BR>travelling would have to adjust to varying atmospheric pressures and<BR>gravities. So much so that I suspect that it'd be set up to double as a<BR>short duration (say 10 minute) life support pack. <BR><BR>This could lead to the guy with the "chronic medical condition" being<BR>the only non-crew person to be functional after a loss of pressure<BR>accident. :-)<BR><BR>More seriously, I suspect that the high TL equivalent of those portable<BR>oxygen bottles some folks have to lug around, and the filter masks some<BR>of us allergy sufferers resort to will be a beltpack that filters the<BR>air and can (if necessary) change the oxygen content of the air. <BR><BR>Boosting pressure a bit will be fairly easy, but requires some<BR>feedback, to avoid problems. Dropping it isn't very practical. <BR><BR>It would hook to anything from "nasal pillows" (tubes with expanding<BR>ends that go into the nose) to nose only masks, to nose/mouth masks, to<BR>full face masks, all the way up to a light "bubble helmet". <BR><BR>They'd probably be modified filter masks, with added "smarts" and a<BR>*lot* of reliability testing. <BR><BR>On the other hand, now that I think about it since filter masks are<BR>also life support equipment, these might not be much more expensive.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 14:50:00 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR><BR>Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 12:30 -0500 6/11/00, Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; And the flyer mentions 'free stuff for every attendee',<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; but I don't know what that is.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I think this will be a Pokemon Master Challenge Deck.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nah, there's *No Pokemon* at Dragonmeet 2000. Did I forget to mention it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, I do wonder what the organisers will do if someone started<BR>&gt; playing it in the open gaming area...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom<BR><BR>Use of a flamethrower or plasma gun seems reasonable....<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:39:47 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: building starships (was Re: Sword Worlds)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Sword Worlds<BR>...<BR>&gt;They don't need to. There's a rule (either in Book 2 or in High Guard) allowing<BR>&gt;worlds with the required TL to build starships regardless of their starport<BR>&gt;class. Starport class appears to be a civilian matter. Nothing to do with naval<BR>&gt;capacity.<BR><BR>&nbsp; HG2, p.20 (why yes, it is within reach of my terminal - _always_ :&gt; )<BR>And the concept is explicitly supported elsewhere.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:44:37 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: On of the good points...<BR><BR>of Harvard is the diversity...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; This is one place I really don't worry about so called 'political<BR>&gt;correctness.'<BR>&gt; &gt; This list did produce the Sayat...<BR>&gt;I find that ... interesting ... considering that they were invented by a<BR>&gt;linguist who went off to Harvard to do textual analysis.<BR><BR>Speaking of which, I should be spending a day at Harvard Square doing some <BR>non-political polling soon.<BR>I'm gathering data for the Planet Project (http://www.planetproject.com/)<BR>I'll keep an eye out for Kenji.&nbsp; Her answers should be interesting...<BR><BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>And, isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean, all you get<BR>is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, ooo hoo<BR>hoo, the sky's the limit! - The Tick&nbsp; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 21:55:05 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: calling Jesse<BR><BR>I am requesting an official upgrade in status from "Wanabe" to "Rank<BR>Amature" in the Traveller 3D art club.<BR><BR>http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/art.html<BR><BR>These are works in progress.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Charles R Hensley<BR><BR>P.S.&nbsp; is there anyplace that I can get poser figures on the web, I need<BR>people in some of the art I want to do but cannot afford poser at this<BR>time.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:11:05 -0600<BR>From: Sinbad Sam &lt;sinbad@hex.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Re : World atmospheres (was : Worldbuilding blunder : help!)<BR><BR>At 08:28 PM 11/06/2000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; At 03:44 PM 11/03/2000, Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm a bit too familar with one type of "ventilator" (CPAP unit)...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Someone with Sleep Apnea maybe....&lt;G&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Former Field Service Engineer for a major Ventilator manufacturer...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;ResMed by any chance?<BR><BR>No but I am familiar with their product lines. In the end my company "Bird" was bought a Corporation called "Thermo Electron", who then bought a heart monitoring company, then a company that makes a specialized high frequency "Dog Panting" ventilator "SensorMedics", along with other specialized diag instruments, then it bought one of our major competitors a company called "Bear". So I was trained and serviced three different manufacturers vents, talk about parts inventories, and paperwork. But their were four of us covering the Texas region, I was one of the ones that got "down sized" so to speak.<BR><BR>In Bird product line was vent that used a "drag compressor" so that no bottles air was needed just O2, but it made interesting "wheezing" sounds as it cycles. It was field service dream, everything was software controlled/measured, no pots to tweek, just enter the value in the software that was needed, no lap top was required, and software was on PCMIA cards too.<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:09:12 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Wow...<BR><BR>I guess it worked then, huh?&nbsp; :D&nbsp; Thank you Dan, that means a lot to me!<BR><BR>Very Best,<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Dan Lane<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 5:59 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Views<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Your art is one of the things that fired me up on Traveller again.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; cable-modem is the best things I've had since I got online back in 1996.<BR>&gt; What will put Traveller on the cutting edge of roleplaying is the TML<BR>&gt; efforts like yours.&nbsp; I think you should try to make that ultimate<BR>&gt; traveller<BR>&gt; experience.&nbsp; My brother and I have been comiling ideas and stuff for the<BR>&gt; last three years in support of our own efort.&nbsp; Eventually, we'll go online<BR>&gt; (once we figure out this HTML crap).<BR>&gt; In the meantime, we look to you for inspiration.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -Dan Lane<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:09:50 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>One year as an actual honest-to-goodness professional web designer will do<BR>that ;)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 6:35 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Views<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Didn't mean to invoke a flamewar :)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; To clarify, I DO intend to have a text only version that has<BR>&gt; links to the<BR>&gt; &gt; graphics for our "browser-impaired" brethren ;)&nbsp; This will be selectable<BR>&gt; &gt; from the "front door" of the site.&nbsp; While it will cut down on<BR>&gt; the experience<BR>&gt; &gt; that I'm aiming for, there will still be enough there to make<BR>&gt; it worth it.<BR>&gt; &gt; Another thought I'd had for the low-bandwidth version is to<BR>&gt; have a contact<BR>&gt; &gt; sheet graphic available.&nbsp; This would give you a small thumbnail<BR>&gt; and the name<BR>&gt; &gt; of picture (co-inciding with the link) so that you can decide<BR>&gt; which shots<BR>&gt; &gt; you'd like to take a closer look at.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Currently, my site is incredibly sloppy.&nbsp; It was never meant to<BR>&gt; last in it's<BR>&gt; &gt; current form beyond a couple of months.&nbsp; Two years later and<BR>&gt; it's still in<BR>&gt; &gt; it's original state.&nbsp; The gallery is particularly incidious in<BR>&gt; that I just<BR>&gt; &gt; keep tacking images on to the bottom.&nbsp; In the next rev, there will be a<BR>&gt; &gt; maximum number of images per gallery page, with a corresponding contact<BR>&gt; &gt; sheet, so that the download times aren't as bad.&nbsp; The gallery<BR>&gt; sections will<BR>&gt; &gt; be seperate from the "experience" portion, as will the news<BR>&gt; page that'll let<BR>&gt; &gt; you know what's up without having to sit through the intro movie ;)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Bravo! Sounds like you've got a good framework in mind.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:10:12 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Gee, you don't want much do you?&nbsp; ;)&nbsp; I'll do my best....<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of<BR>&gt; david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 4:56 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Views<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Chris wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; However, in the case of the sort of thing Jesse seems to be<BR>&gt; talking about,<BR>&gt; &gt;I say more power to him. Sure, some folks who rely on a<BR>&gt; cellphone or palmtop<BR>&gt; &gt;for their internet access might get left out. Sure, some folks<BR>&gt; who choose to<BR>&gt; &gt;use text-only browsers, for whatever reason, might get left out. However,<BR>&gt; &gt;Jesse's considerable skill as a visual artist and designer will<BR>&gt; really shine<BR>&gt; &gt;through and I suspect that he'll be able to create a site which is both<BR>&gt; &gt;unique and stimulating. Denying Jesse the chance to ply his<BR>&gt; trade because of<BR>&gt; &gt;the limitations of some to view his work is akin to telling a<BR>&gt; painter not to<BR>&gt; &gt;paint because some folks are blind.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Amen! Preach it, bro', preach it!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse, I expect to see a full fly-through of an AHL, with the<BR>&gt; ability to exit an<BR>&gt; airlock while attached to that monstrosity (it's big!) of a Vegan<BR>&gt; highport, and<BR>&gt; "walk" through the concourse, while viewing a selection of the<BR>&gt; alien races I'm<BR>&gt; likely to encounter there. Maybe even a tour of the Tigress that<BR>&gt; is docked on<BR>&gt; the other side of the highport "arm".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I mean really, is that too much to ask?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ;-) ;-)<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>&gt; http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>&gt; "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>&gt; of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>&gt; position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:58:48 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>&gt;7&nbsp;&nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp; &nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0 (referred to as a Vice Admiral)<BR><BR>This is probably an error in canon (gasp!) where Rear and Vice were switched.<BR>Santanocheev should have been referred to as a Vice Admiral prior to his<BR>promotion to Sector Admiral, and Elphinstone should be a Rear Admiral.<BR><BR>Note that the real-world ranks, in increasing seniority, are as follows:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Commodore<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rear Admiral<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vice Admiral<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Admiral<BR><BR>Hey, Elphinstone was the senior Rear Admiral, maybe Norris promoted Elphinstone<BR>when he took over the fleets with the Warrant? This allows him to be VADM when<BR>chasing down those pesky Vargr, and thus saves a portion of the TNS reports as<BR>canon.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:09:12 -0500 <BR>From: "Smith, Walter" &lt;SmithW@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: OT: Movies (was RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW ))<BR><BR>Kiri wrote:<BR>&gt; I've suggested that rather than banning rape scenes &amp; bdsm, <BR>&gt; etc. in porn, the best way to make sure that real rapes don't get <BR>&gt; marketed as entertainment is not to drive that sort of filmmaking <BR>&gt; underground into the hands of the people (I use this term loosely, <BR>&gt; of course) who produce snuff films and kiddie porn. <BR><BR>Kiri,<BR><BR>Are there really people producing snuff films?&nbsp; All the Urban Legends<BR>web pages I come across have the existence of snuff films firmly<BR>in their "False Legends" categories...www.snopes.com mentions<BR>that police on three continents routinely investigate unfounded rumors <BR>and realistic horror-movie special effects, but have yet to find one <BR>real example of a snuff film.&nbsp; Kiddie porn, on the other hand, is<BR>all too real.<BR><BR>ObTrav: &lt;Censored&gt;<BR><BR>Walt Smith<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:25:51 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: calling Jesse<BR><BR>&gt;I am requesting an official upgrade in status from "Wanabe" to "Rank<BR>&gt;Amature" in the Traveller 3D art club.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/art.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;These are works in progress.<BR><BR>They look good. And perp decks - a true believer! 8^)<BR><BR>&gt;P.S.&nbsp; is there anyplace that I can get poser figures on the web, I need<BR>&gt;people in some of the art I want to do but cannot afford poser at this<BR>&gt;time.<BR><BR>http://www.renderosity.com - but Poser figures won't do you any good w/o Poser.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR>- -- <BR>CT is supreme.<BR>HG2 is more supreme.<BR>All others may speak only when CT does not speak.<BR>When CT is unclear... it's a printer's error.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:19:07 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: calling Jesse<BR><BR>Heehee, all you have to do for that is to get your hands dirty and start<BR>working with this stuff.&nbsp; You've certainly done that!&nbsp; Congratulations!<BR>Welcome to the short list of TML'ers that are working with 3D!!!<BR><BR>Another spouse or girlfriend mad at me.&nbsp; Excellent!&nbsp; :D<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Charles R Hensley<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:55 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: calling Jesse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I am requesting an official upgrade in status from "Wanabe" to "Rank<BR>&gt; Amature" in the Traveller 3D art club.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/art.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; These are works in progress.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Charles R Hensley<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; P.S.&nbsp; is there anyplace that I can get poser figures on the web, I need<BR>&gt; people in some of the art I want to do but cannot afford poser at this<BR>&gt; time.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:27:48 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Movies (was RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW))<BR><BR>From: Smith, Walter &lt;SmithW@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Kiri wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; I've suggested that rather than banning rape scenes &amp; bdsm, etc. in porn,<BR>the best way to make sure that real rapes don't get marketed as<BR>entertainment is not to drive that sort of filmmaking underground into the<BR>hands of the people (I use this term loosely, of course) who produce snuff<BR>films and kiddie porn.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Are there really people producing snuff films?&nbsp; All the Urban Legends web<BR>pages I come across have the existence of snuff films firmly in their "False<BR>Legends" categories... www.snopes.com mentions that police on three<BR>continents routinely investigate unfounded rumors and realistic horror-movie<BR>special effects, but have yet to find one real example of a snuff film.<BR>Kiddie porn, on the other hand, is all too real.<BR>&gt;<BR>Well, I certainly haven't seen one and I don't know anyone who has ever been<BR>on the set of one.&nbsp; But my ex-husband said once that he knew of something<BR>like that in Thailand.&nbsp; I didn't ask for details.&nbsp; I've heard *rumors* that<BR>there is footage from the Bosnian rape camps, etc. circulating on the<BR>internet, but I don't want to know about that either.&nbsp;&nbsp; My position is<BR>simply that fetishistic porn is not going to go away (and there is nothing<BR>wrong with it, in my opinion, so long as no one really gets hurt) and that<BR>the best way to make sure no one really gets hurt is to make sure that it is<BR>filmed out in the open like other kinds of movies.<BR><BR>Kiri<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav: &lt;Censored&gt;<BR><BR><BR>no kidding!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:39:07 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : Sleep apnoea (longish)<BR><BR>Comments and Ob Travs follow :-<BR>Leonard Erickson wrote :-<BR>&gt; How small a pressure? In my case, 10 cm of H2O. IE the pressure exerted<BR>&gt; by a column of water 10 cm high. That's about 1/100th of an atmosphere.<BR>&gt; And it's considered a moderately "high" setting (in fact, none of the<BR>&gt; various xxAP units go above 20-25 cm!)<BR><BR>In health, the respiratory system is very compliant. It takes 1cm H2O<BR>pressure to inflate a normal lung 100mLs. If the lungs are no longer<BR>inside the chest, this value doubles (200mL volume for 1cm H2O<BR>pressure).<BR><BR>Larger pressure gradients would interfere with the return of blood to<BR>the heart (intrathoracic pressure usually cycles from 5 to -5cm H2O with<BR>ventilation). The risk of barotrauma also increases sharply.<BR><BR>&gt; It's very hard on the body, and can lead to things like an enlarged<BR>&gt; heart. It can also kill you by simple suffocation if you get tired<BR>&gt; enough and your body doesn't wake up in time.<BR><BR>The enlargement of the heart is called 'cor pulmonale', and is<BR>predominantly right sided. This change will occur with chronic hypoxia<BR>due to any cause e.g. altitude, cardiac (e.g. heart failure) or lung<BR>disease (e.g. emphysema)[1].<BR><BR>Left ventricular hypertrophy can also occur because of chronically<BR>raised levels of carbon dioxide in the blood, leading to hypertension<BR>via activation of the sympathetic nervous system (this is why carbon<BR>dioxide rebreathing was used once in anaesthesia to increase blood<BR>pressure)[2].<BR><BR>&gt; Too many doctors seem to think that *all* the symptoms need to be<BR>&gt; present before you should be refered. That's utter BS.<BR>Correct ; any two or three from the list are more than sufficient. The<BR>problem is so common, especially with the double whammy of an ageing<BR>population and the obesity epidemic, that your strike rate is going to<BR>be good anyway.<BR><BR>Most respiratory physicians don't mind a new customer, either.<BR><BR>R.M. Stephens wrote :-<BR>&gt; Not only are finding doctors who will recommend testing a problem --<BR>&gt; insurance companies which will authorize testing are tough.<BR><BR>&lt;soapbox&gt;<BR>You Americans really have a bad deal with health care provision.<BR>By Australian standards, that is grossly negligent.<BR><BR>Unfortunately the medical establishment here in Australia seems to be<BR>heading in the same direction - lots of super-specialised technicians,<BR>and no one able to recognise sick people, or assume an overarching role<BR>in someone's management.<BR>&lt;/soapbox&gt;<BR><BR>Thom Harris wrote :-<BR>&gt; When I finally got a sleep test (Nov 1998) they found my<BR>&gt; oxygen saturation was roughly (average) 68% for the entire time I slept. I<BR>&gt; believe the norm is up in the 90% area.<BR><BR>The oxygen-haemoglobin dissociation curve is yet another sigmoid<BR>function, and a perennial physiology exam topic.<BR>The following values assume a blood pH of 7.40 and a carbon dioxide<BR>partial pressure of 40mmHg (5.8kPa, 0.8psi, or ~0.05ATA), unless<BR>otherwise noted :-<BR><BR>Arterial haemoglobin saturation (% haemoglobin carrying oxygen) is<BR>95-100% for healthy young adults on room air (0.21ATA O2) ; it drops to<BR>90-93% by age 70. <BR><BR>Acutely, below 85% saturation, supplemental oxygen is mandatory.<BR>Admission to Intensive Care (or an equivalent area that can provide<BR>non-invasive ventilation) is a good idea.<BR><BR>People with chronic lung disease have often 'adapted' to this degree of<BR>hypoxia, and commonly have arterial carbon dioxide levels of 50-70mmHg.<BR>Moderate to severe levels of disability are usual.<BR><BR>The saturation of the 'mixed venous' blood entering the lung is taken to<BR>be 75% at rest. Exercise and low cardiac output states (e.g. shock due<BR>to blood loss, heart failure) will lead to more extraction of oxygen and<BR>therefore a lower venous saturation.<BR><BR>Someone on Mount Everest without supplemental oxygen would have an<BR>arterial saturation of around the 70-75% mark. For a little extra<BR>'chrome', their resting heart rate would about 200-220/minute, with a<BR>respiratory rate of about 40 (i.e. it's equivalent to near maximal<BR>exercise).[3]<BR><BR>People that have had 'shunt' or tranposition procedures for congenital<BR>heart disease have arterial oxygen saturations in the range of 40-60%,<BR>and are generally fairly functional. However, survival of these<BR>individuals beyond age 30 to 40 is virtually unknown.[4] <BR><BR>Haemoglobin is 50% saturated at about 27mmHg (the usual arterial partial<BR>pressure of oxygen is ~100mmHg).<BR><BR>The lowest oxygen saturation that I have seen in a person with sleep<BR>apnoea is 30%. The lowest oxygen saturation I have seen in someone who<BR>survived their cardiac arrest was also around this order.<BR><BR>Ob Travs:-<BR>[1] This is one of the reasons why sustained exposure to high levels of<BR>acceleration or altitude are bad for you.<BR>[2] Chronic adaptation to carbon dioxide levels of 0.01ATA are possible,<BR>but life-shortening. Beyond that, death will ensue in minutes to hours.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Note that from a climatological standpoint, the highest atmospheric<BR>CO2 levels noted thus far from geological sampling look to be about<BR>3-4000ppm, or 0.003-0.004ATA (~60 million years ago), about ten times<BR>higher than current levels.<BR>[3] This is a 'thin' atmosphere, in Trav terms.<BR>[4] Acutely, this would lead to unconsciousness within 15-30 seconds.<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:20:33 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Mark Preston wrote :<BR>&gt; Behind the times Frankie! Did you miss that W3C has approved XHTML 1.0<BR>&gt; as the current standard for web pages?<BR><BR>I knew that was what was being planned, but I didn't know it had finally<BR>been ratified.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:13:59 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: calling Jesse<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;P.S.&nbsp; is there anyplace that I can get poser figures on the web, I need<BR>&gt; &gt;people in some of the art I want to do but cannot afford poser at this<BR>&gt; &gt;time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.renderosity.com - but Poser figures won't do you any<BR>&gt; good w/o Poser.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; TTFN<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR><BR>Oops, forgot to answer that &lt;sheepish grin&gt;.&nbsp; Like the man said, Poser<BR>figures (UNLESS they've been converted to a format your software<BR>understands) won't do you any good without Poser.<BR><BR>Here's some info from the Trav3D mailing list that was copied from another<BR>list ;)<BR><BR><BR>Begin paste<BR>============================================================================<BR>====<BR>Quickly, Poser three is an earlier version by 1 to the current ver. 4. It<BR>appears to be veryclose to the newer version with the exception of a number<BR>of tools to allow full character creations, and some new "figures". After<BR>all that what's the idea here? Well I've tacked on message I picked up from<BR>another group...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>I realize most people on this forum already own Poser, so this message is<BR>for anyone who visits this forum and is thinking of purchasing Poser. Future<BR>Publishing's '3D World' magazine is giving away a full copy of Poser 3 on<BR>this months CD (Issue 5), with an upgrade offer to Poser 4. Worth checkin'<BR>out if you are at all interested in this package.<BR><BR>HalloweenJack<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Future Publishing publishes Computer Arts magazine and several others as<BR>well. They are worth a lokk if your into 3d. It this Poser progra follows<BR>Future's usual pattern it will make it's way around all of their 3d related<BR>tittle in the next couple of months. It might be a good opertunity.<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR>- -=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The "Traveller 3D Art" Mailing List<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:35:56 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR><BR>Charles Collin wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Okay, in North America it's known as "Clue!".&nbsp; This makes sense, since the<BR>&gt; game is about solving a mystery with clues.&nbsp; But what the heck is the name<BR>&gt; "Cluedo" (the european version) about?&nbsp; What does "Cluedo" mean?<BR><BR>It's "Clue-do" or "The way of the Clue"<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:45:56 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Movies (was RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW))<BR><BR>Smith, Walter wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Are there really people producing snuff films?<BR><BR>Yes.<BR>In fact there are really people paying money to go and see people tortured<BR>and killed live too.<BR><BR>I did research on this for my D.I.6 game where the characters were trying to<BR>bust such a ring, and found several verified cases in various police<BR>databases.<BR><BR>They are often associated with the groups that organize no-holds-barred<BR>fights for money, as the obvious escalation from that is fights to the<BR>death, and once the 'audience' is used to that, they start looking for more<BR>"thrills".<BR><BR>Others come from countries where the police and military have no limits.<BR>Political and other prisoners are used. I have seen at least one verified<BR>video from this source, though purely for research purposes, of course.<BR><BR>There was at least one attempt at producing a snuff movie locally here in<BR>New Zealand, the killing was supposed to take place at one of the beaches<BR>around Wellington. Though in that particular case the people involved were<BR>so amateur they were infiltrated and shut down before the act was carried<BR>out.<BR><BR>However there are also several "Californian" porn movies that claim to be<BR>"snuff" movies which are definitely not. In fact, as far as I could tell<BR>there have been no US-made "snuff" movies, the ones I have seen mentioned<BR>were sourced from the Phillpines, Macau, and Uganda (IIRC)<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3265<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 02:45:15 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 02:44:40 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA04376;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:40:25 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:40:09 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id CAA04107<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:40:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:40:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011070740.CAA04107@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3265<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, November 7 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3266<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR>re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR>Book Reviews<BR>GT: Virus?<BR>re: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR>Re: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR>RE: Virus?<BR>Re : high TL med stuff (was Re: Sleep Apnea)<BR>Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR>RE: Solutions to the Pokemon&nbsp; Problem (was [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info)<BR>RE: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR>RE: EMP bursts<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR>Re: Movies<BR>Re: GT: Humaniti<BR>Re: Movies<BR>Re: Movies<BR>Re: Movies<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 07:49:07 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Frank G. Pitt [mailto:frankie@mundens.gen.nz]<BR>&gt; Sent: 07 November 2000 06:36<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Charles Collin wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Okay, in North America it's known as "Clue!".&nbsp; This makes <BR>&gt; sense, since the<BR>&gt; &gt; game is about solving a mystery with clues.&nbsp; But what the <BR>&gt; heck is the name<BR>&gt; &gt; "Cluedo" (the european version) about?&nbsp; What does "Cluedo" mean?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's "Clue-do" or "The way of the Clue"<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Don't forget the martial version, 'Clue-jutsu'!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:41:51 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Hazards of the Past Travellering...or Revenge of GDW-BETA<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I'm not even sure<BR>&gt;what to say if someone asks me what a gdw-beta actually is. (I'm also not<BR>&gt;sure why the organizer couldn't distinguish between fantasy and reality,<BR>but<BR>&gt;that's a seperate issue.)<BR><BR>Raise eyebrows.&nbsp; "GDW-beta?" you say, confirming the question.&nbsp; "There's an<BR>NDA, sorry, I really can't talk about that part of my life.&nbsp; Next question,<BR>yes, you way in the back."<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:35:48 -0800<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Book Reviews<BR><BR>The only good way to kill time on airplanes is to read books. On my latest<BR>trip, I managed to read a book or two which people on the TML might find<BR>interesting.<BR><BR>First, "Ice Station," by Matt Reilly. This book sounded like a good<BR>Traveller scenario. An American scientific team finds a spaceship in the<BR>Antarctic ice. Bad guys from other countries try to take it away. Lots of<BR>bullets fly. It certainly sounded promising.<BR><BR>The problem was that the author, apparently an Australian, has apparently<BR>never served in the US military and got all sorts of stuff about it wrong.<BR>Then the incorrect science stuff. The one which annoyed me the most:<BR>grenades which kill you in a particularly nasty way by splashing liquid<BR>nitrogen on you. And they also freeze large areas of the ocean in a<BR>particularly dramatic way. I've reached into LN to retrieve small objects on<BR>many occasions, and never experienced the hideous instant death described in<BR>this book.<BR><BR>The plot is a good motivation for a Traveller adventure, however, if you can<BR>overlook these nits. An adventure in a ice-bound research station in which<BR>you can trust absolutely nobody has great gaming potential. Maybe I'll<BR>donate this one to the Downport Sci-Fi Lending Library.<BR><BR>Next, "Tensor Geometry,' By C.T.J. Dodson and T. Poston, a rather serious<BR>mathematical book about, well, tensor geometry. This book is worth buying<BR>just for the one sentence: "But since from time to time any physicist is<BR>trapped by some Philosopher of Science who is proud of not understanding<BR>equations, he should be equipped with some arguments simple enough for the<BR>Philosopher to understand." In other respects, it's a good discussion of the<BR>math behind relativity, if you like that sort of thing. It's also on sale as<BR>part of the annual Springer Yellow Sale, which is the real reason that I<BR>bought it.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 01:17:38 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: GT: Virus?<BR><BR>While I do realize that the "official" GT timeline for GT omits Virus, at<BR>the same time, this is GURPS. I mean, they have everything. Would there not<BR>be some value to a GT:Virus volume. (Perhaps part of some GURPS: Apocolypse<BR>or something sourcebook.)<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 01:25:44 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR><BR>&gt;From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Okay, in North America it's known as "Clue!".&nbsp; This makes sense, since the<BR>&gt;game is about solving a mystery with clues.&nbsp; But what the heck is the name<BR>&gt;"Cluedo" (the european version) about?&nbsp; What does "Cluedo" mean?<BR><BR>The European version was only published in Esperanto (cluedo just means clue<BR>in Esperanto), so that the publisher could save the cost of multiple<BR>translations.&nbsp; I understand that Indicium is going to be the next attempt to<BR>get a universal language version of the game out for the European market.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>P.S.&nbsp; N.B.&nbsp; The foregoing statement, with the exception of the quoted matter<BR>and the signature, may be entirely false.&nbsp; The writer has no actual<BR>knowledge of Esperanto or European versions of the game Clue.&nbsp; The writer<BR>does believe that the game designer did it in the study with a computer.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 01:25:45 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR><BR>&gt;From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's a play on the words "Clue" and "Ludo". Ludo is a Latin word (I think)<BR>&gt;which means "to play".<BR><BR>Ludo means both "to play" and "to baffle."<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:33:50 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Virus?<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While I do realize that the "official" GT timeline for GT <BR>&gt; omits Virus, at<BR>&gt; the same time, this is GURPS. I mean, they have everything. <BR>&gt; Would there not<BR>&gt; be some value to a GT:Virus volume. (Perhaps part of some <BR>&gt; GURPS: Apocolypse<BR>&gt; or something sourcebook.)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>A good question. The release of Virus into the G:T universe would probably<BR>have much the same effect as the release during the Rebellion did (not<BR>necessarily the fall of the Imperium, but a pretty major chuck of<BR>devestation). <BR>Since the G:T timeline is basically the standard timeline with one change<BR>(Dulinor killed rather than Strephon) we know that Virus is still sitting in<BR>it's lab, waiting for a chance to kick some booty. However, in the absence<BR>of warring factions ready to release an untested Virus as a secret weapon, I<BR>suspect that the work on Virus will be completed and true AI developed by<BR>the 3I (who will naturally make no mention of the fact that it's an Uplifted<BR>silicon lifeform. Since G:T is GURPS after all, I would imagine that it<BR>would get a plenty of sidebarage devoted to 'Alternate Virus' scenarios.<BR>Anyone sufficiently interested in the wild strains of Virus should get<BR>themselves copies of TNE/MT (I got into Traveller by way of GURPS and then<BR>the FFE reprints, and that's what I did) :)<BR><BR>Disclaimer: All this is speculation. I don't actually KNOW anything.&nbsp; Ask<BR>Loren...he probably won't tell you, but at least he actually knows. FNORD.<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:22:20 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : high TL med stuff (was Re: Sleep Apnea)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote :-<BR>&gt; It occurs to me that a TL-15 CPAP equivalent intended for use while<BR>&gt; travelling would have to adjust to varying atmospheric pressures and<BR>&gt; gravities. So much so that I suspect that it'd be set up to double as a<BR>&gt; short duration (say 10 minute) life support pack.<BR><BR>Lung regeneration and immunomodulation to eliminate allergies are<BR>available by that sort of TTL.<BR><BR>'Life support suits' - implant/explant artificial organs - before<BR>cloning/regen tech becomes viable.<BR><BR>Hmm... some spacers may prefer the latter because other modules could be<BR>plugged in. Artificial gills or high-density oxygen supplies, for<BR>example. Although, given Imperial cultural mores, overt<BR>cyberenhancements are out, aren't they...<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:22:31 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>The following are draft notes dealing with the effects of atmospheres on<BR>personnel.<BR><BR>General Considerations<BR>- - Atmospheres rated trace or less require a pressure suit.<BR>- - Atmospheres rated very thin or less require a compressor.<BR>- - Pressures are expressed in atmospheres absolute (ATA), 1 ATA =<BR>101.3kPa, 760mmHg or 14.5 psi.<BR><BR>1. Oxygen<BR>The partial pressure of oxygen at sea level is approximately 0.21 ATA.<BR>For every 5500m altitude, pressure falls by 50%.<BR>Commercial airliners are pressurised to 75-80% of sea level pressure.<BR><BR>a. Hypoxia<BR>i. Acute exposures (initially breathing at sea level pressure)<BR>Effect&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Oxygen Pressure&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Altitude equivalent (m)<BR>Lose consciousness in:-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (ATA)<BR>5 minutes (air)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.09&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6100<BR>2 minutes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.08&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7500 = 'very thin'*<BR>1 minute&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0.07&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8000<BR>20 seconds&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0.03&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 13700<BR>5 minutes (100% oxygen)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~14000 = 'trace'**<BR><BR>* assumes oxygen 21% of total atmospheric composition<BR>** atmospheric pressure is ~=0.1 ATA<BR><BR>ii. Long-term exposures<BR>These time intervals include periods of gradual 'decompression' and<BR>acclimation.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Oxygen pressure&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Altitude equivalent<BR>Tolerable for years&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5500<BR>Tolerable for days&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0.07&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8000<BR>[-2 to all tasks]<BR><BR>* Rule suggestions<BR>- - Acute hypoxia<BR>Suffocation damage is applied to Intelligence (all points) as well as<BR>the physical characteristics (as usual).<BR>Once Int goes to zero, the victim falls unconscious.<BR>Once total damage is equal to INT X 2, the victim is comatose and<BR>requires urgent medical attention.<BR>Once total damage is equal to INT X 3, cardiac arrest occurs.<BR><BR>For each of the time increments listed above, 2D damage is sustained.<BR>So if a luckless pilot loses cabin pressure while flying at 13000<BR>metres, s/he sustains 2D damage every 20 seconds until pressure is<BR>restored.<BR><BR>- - Altitude sickness<BR>If a roll of 2D exceeds the character's Endurance, they will fall ill.<BR>2D damage is sustained every 12 hours after an 'incubation period' of<BR>(2 X End) hours.<BR><BR>Nausea, vomitting and headache are the initial symptoms.<BR>When damage exceeds Intelligence, delirium or coma ensue.<BR>When two characteristics are zero, either pulmonary or cerebral oedema<BR>are present. Medical attention is required. <BR><BR>- - Chronic adaptation<BR>Life at the equivalent of 5500m altitude carries a -3 to ageing rolls,<BR>and is equivalent to an ambient 2.0G field i.e. -1 Dex and End in first<BR>week, -3 End, +1 Str and Dex over the next three weeks, with recovery of<BR>End over the next three months.<BR><BR>b. Hyperoxia<BR>This is an unusual situation. No world atmosphere will have an oxygen<BR>content in excess of 0.3 ATA. At typical Traveller TLs, hyperbaric<BR>environments are rare.<BR><BR>Partial pressure O2(ATA)&nbsp;&nbsp; Effect/Notes<BR>1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Chest pain, decreased lung capacity<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; after (Endurance) hours<BR>3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Usual oxygen pressure for hyperbaric<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; chamber ; &lt;5% of subjects will fit after<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; hours (less with air breaks)<BR>4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50% of subjects will fit after 30<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; minutes<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 90% of subjects will fit after 30<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; minutes<BR><BR>Warning symptoms include nausea, vomitting, anxiety, vertigo, and<BR>sensory changes (altered sight/hearing/touch).<BR><BR>2. Other substances<BR>Are divided into the following categories :-<BR>i. Inert :- do not support respiration<BR>ii. Irritant :- cause non-specific damage to the respiratory system<BR>iii. Toxic :- cause specific damage to the respiratory system<BR><BR>Suggested format :-<BR>Name, type<BR>Concentration - effect<BR>odour thresholds, if relevant<BR>Increasing general damage rates for irritant or toxic gases, suffocation<BR>damage for inert ones<BR>Miscellaneous comments<BR><BR>Example 1 : Ozone<BR>Irritant<BR>Partial Pressure&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Effect<BR>3.1e(-5)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; = 'good air quality'<BR>6.2e(-5)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; = 'average air quality'<BR>9.3e(-5)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -2 End following 1 hour exposure*<BR>1.6e(-4)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 point damage, any exposure (per minute, say)<BR>3.2e(-4)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1D damage, any exposure<BR>4.1e(-4)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2D damage, any exposure<BR>4.8e(-4)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3D damage, any exposure<BR><BR>* This will persist for (15 - original Endurance) days.<BR><BR>Example 2 : Carbon dioxide<BR>Inert<BR>Partial pressure&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Effect<BR>3.45e(-4)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; average in today's atmosphere<BR>0.06&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Lose consciousness in fifteen minutes (suffocation<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; damage)<BR>0.15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; General anaesthesia in one minute (2 X Int<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; suffocation damage)<BR><BR><BR>I apologise for an error made in this post :-<BR>&gt; &gt; Tschai's atmosphere is thick, with a surface pressure of about 150% that<BR>&gt; &gt; of Earth's at sea level. The air contains 74% nitrogen, 17% oxygen, 4%<BR>&gt; &gt; water vapor, 2% carbon dioxide, 2% sulfur compounds and 1% neon. <BR>&gt; &gt; There is also a good deal of airborne dust.<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; Acutely, the problem is due to the toxicity of<BR>&gt; the carbon dioxide, sulphur compounds and particulates - an unprotected<BR>&gt; human might survive for a few hours, at best.<BR><BR>0.03 ATA CO2 is tolerable for quite a while. The sulphur compounds are<BR>problematic ; SO2 is quite dangerous in concentrations of 2-3 parts per<BR>million (by weight).<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:25:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>- --- Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;An adventure in a ice-bound research station in which you can trust<BR>absolutely nobody has great gaming potential.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>"The Thing?"<BR><BR>Another Must Read (AMR): If you want a good hard-SF military adventure<BR>(just ripe for Traveller), try Ian Douglas' Heritage Trilogy (Semper<BR>Mars, Luna Marine, Europa Strike).&nbsp; As you can tell from the titles,<BR>these deal with Marines -- the first book has them slugging it out with<BR>the bad guys (UN forces) on Mars, the second has them slugging it out<BR>with the bad guys (UN forces) on the Moon, and the third book has them<BR>slugging it out with the bad guys (Chinese [thought I was going to say<BR>UN forces, didn't you?]) on Jupiter's moon, Europa.<BR><BR>These books are very quick reads, and there is enough detail to flesh<BR>out most mid-tech (Traveller TL 9 to 11) societies.&nbsp; The author, much<BR>like Tom Clancy, actually tries to describe how the technology<BR>functions, so these books might better be classified as Speculative<BR>Fiction Techno Thrillers.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Thousands of Stores.&nbsp; Millions of Products.&nbsp; All in one Place.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:32:44 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Solutions to the Pokemon&nbsp; Problem (was [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; And the flyer mentions 'free stuff for every attendee',<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; but I don't know what that is.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I think this will be a Pokemon Master Challenge Deck.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ;-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nah, there's *No Pokemon* at Dragonmeet 2000. Did I forget to <BR>&gt; mention it?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, I do wonder what the organisers will do if someone started <BR>&gt; playing it in the open gaming area...<BR><BR><BR>Choose Mewtwo? :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:34:48 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: I know I'm not one of the truely ancient ones...<BR><BR>&gt; "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Seriously, I count myself lucky my significant other has a <BR>&gt; Jones jones ;)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;pull pin, throw grenade&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Would a Drug Drug addict be likely to have a Jones jones?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&lt;SPLORT&gt;<BR><BR>She'd love that one, she's an aspiring Rob O'Connor<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:19:34 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: EMP bursts<BR><BR>&gt; I was thinking less of frying&nbsp; a&nbsp; ship's&nbsp; electronics,<BR><BR>Unlikely, as the others have pointed out.<BR><BR>&nbsp; and&nbsp; more<BR>&gt; about a temporary sensor "white&nbsp; out"&nbsp; effect&nbsp; (as&nbsp; mentioned&nbsp; in<BR>&gt; Brilliant Lances).<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>On certain sensors eg active and passive EM on certain frequencies.<BR>Desitometers are unaffected. More exotic sensors depend on YTU.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 04:32:47 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>&gt;From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt;Subject: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>...<BR>&gt;The ARL also appears in MT:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Pen/&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Max&nbsp; &nbsp; Auto&nbsp; Dngr&nbsp; Signa-<BR>&gt;Name&nbsp; Ammo&nbsp; Rds&nbsp; Atten&nbsp; Dmg&nbsp; Rng&nbsp; &nbsp; Tgts&nbsp; Spc&nbsp;&nbsp; ture&nbsp; Recoil&nbsp; Diff As<BR>&gt;ARL&nbsp;&nbsp; HE&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 5/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; V Long 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Low&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle**<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; HEAP&nbsp; 20&nbsp;&nbsp; 10/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; V Long 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1.5&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Low&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle**<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; KEAP&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 8/4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; V Long 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1.5&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Low&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle**<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; gas&nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; ---&nbsp;&nbsp; 2#&nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hi&nbsp; &nbsp; Low&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle**<BR>...<BR>&gt;Notice how close the figures are, in comparison. Also notice, however, that in<BR>&gt;MT it can't fire at targets over 500m away! One of my gripes with MT combat is<BR>&gt;that Distant and V Dist are too grainy in scale. For example, a _Striker_ gauss<BR>&gt;rifle only fires out to 1800 m, but in MT it can supposedly fire out to Distant<BR><BR>&nbsp; Heck, if you have _Striker_ why bother with MT if that goofiness bothers you?<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW, I've just looked up the ARL in MT for the first time (what, there's<BR>life after CT?!), and I'm not sure whether to be confused or ... perturbed?<BR>i) why do the chemical energy rounds (some, but not all!) attenuate?<BR>ii) why does the (10mm) ARL have _way_ better Pen than a (10mm) snubbie,<BR>when presumably the latters round was optimized for HEAP pen at that <BR>projectile diameter?<BR>iii) why does the low velocity (yeah, I know, it's a GyroJet clone...)<BR>(10mm) KEAP round of the ARL have similar Pen to the (20/9mm) DS round<BR>from a (high Recoil) LAG?!<BR><BR>&nbsp; I have to wonder if something didn't suffer from a quick write-up?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:51:55 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>At 11:35 PM 11/06/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;The only good way to kill time on airplanes is to read books. On my latest<BR>&gt;trip, I managed to read a book or two which people on the TML might find<BR>&gt;interesting.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;First, "Ice Station," by Matt Reilly. This book sounded like a good<BR>&gt;Traveller scenario. An American scientific team finds a spaceship in the<BR>&gt;Antarctic ice. Bad guys from other countries try to take it away. Lots of<BR>&gt;bullets fly. It certainly sounded promising.<BR><BR>Agreed. *Sounded* promising.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;The problem was that the author, apparently an Australian, has apparently<BR>&gt;never served in the US military and got all sorts of stuff about it wrong.<BR>&gt;Then the incorrect science stuff. The one which annoyed me the most:<BR>&gt;grenades which kill you in a particularly nasty way by splashing liquid<BR>&gt;nitrogen on you. And they also freeze large areas of the ocean in a<BR>&gt;particularly dramatic way. I've reached into LN to retrieve small objects on<BR>&gt;many occasions, and never experienced the hideous instant death described in<BR>&gt;this book.<BR><BR>That and the over use of the gadgets coupled with the weak secondary plot <BR>and the fact that everyone and everything mentioned or alluded to <BR>eventually appears turned a nifty idea into something that turned out <BR>substandard at best.<BR><BR>&gt;The plot is a good motivation for a Traveller adventure, however, if you can<BR>&gt;overlook these nits. An adventure in a ice-bound research station in which<BR>&gt;you can trust absolutely nobody has great gaming potential. Maybe I'll<BR>&gt;donate this one to the Downport Sci-Fi Lending Library.<BR><BR>I think that taken as plot inspiration it has good potential as a sort of <BR>Ice Station: Twilight's Peak alternative.<BR><BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:53:41 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:27:48 -0800<BR>&gt;From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Movies (was RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW))<BR><BR>&gt;From: Smith, Walter &lt;SmithW@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;ObTrav: &lt;Censored&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;no kidding!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>Here's an interesting little seed for discussion, and it relates to what <BR>we're dealing with now with regards to legistlation of the Internet, <BR>essentially 'information control.'<BR><BR>TNE Regency Sourcebook, MT Rebellion Sourcebook, and a bunch of other <BR>sources make note of the fact that the Xboat system was first and foremost <BR>a means of communication exchange.&nbsp; It was also a means of communication <BR>control, hence why X-boats were J-4 and not J-6.&nbsp; To paraphrase Dune: He <BR>who control the information, controls the Imperium.&nbsp; The X-boat network, <BR>even though it tied together all the worlds, also permitted the 3I to <BR>control the information flow.<BR><BR>Would the 3I have the motivation and ability to go further?&nbsp; Would there be <BR>clauses put onto X-boat messages whereby the Imperium has the legal right <BR>to rifle through the databases of X-boats?&nbsp; (Not to open old wounds, but <BR>maybe the real reason for a manned X-boat is not to push a PURGE button or <BR>to do maintenance or to 'fly' the X-boat (remember, in basic chargen at <BR>least, all scouts get Pilot-1), but to be a censor/analyst, to let the <BR>X-boat computer examine the message database and pick out tidbits of <BR>information that might be of interest to the 3I.)<BR><BR>More prosaically, would the 3I enforce 'decency censorship' rather than <BR>merely 'military movement censorship?' Would, say, a video clip sent via <BR>X-boat be subject to Imperial censorship laws based on content?&nbsp; Granted, <BR>the Imperium supposedly does not interfere with local laws and customs <BR>(yeah, right =) but would the ICS or even some subsector ICS chiefs say, <BR>'Not via MY X-boats!' and have 'decency' regulations for what may be <BR>transported by X-boats?<BR><BR>Just some thoughts. =)<BR><BR>Cheers<BR>Jon<BR>STILL working on Trav: Albedo, honest. =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:29:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Humaniti<BR><BR>&lt;Doug Berry&gt;<BR>Since the Swordies are simply a Solomani offshoot culture, and not a<BR>seperate, Ancient-seeded, minor race, I agree that they don't really<BR>belong<BR>in the Humaniti book.<BR>&lt;/DB&gt;<BR><BR>Just MHO, but I think you and Loren are taking an un-necessarily narrow<BR>view of the topic of the book, and I don't understand why.&nbsp; "Humaniti" <BR>includes all the major human races as well as the minor ones, so there's<BR>nothing about the title that suggests exclusion of the SWers.&nbsp; The capsule<BR>description mentions covering "20 minor races", but at this point in the<BR>production process I think it's really picking at nits to say that one<BR>can't include cultural off-shoots in that, especially such important ones<BR>as the SWs.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Creating yet another new human minor race instead of detailing one of the<BR>important cultures that's alredy out there in the canon would be a<BR>suboptimal use of pages, IMO.<BR><BR><BR>&lt;DB&gt;<BR>What I'd like to see is a Sword Worlds/Darrians sourcebook, as I've<BR>mentioned elsewhere.<BR>&lt;/DB&gt;<BR><BR>That would be cool, but I doubt it's going to happen, as the Darrians<BR>are getting covered in GT: Humaniti (or they're supposed to at this point<BR>anyway).&nbsp; And in any case it would be waaay down on the list of SJGames<BR>projects if it ever got on there at all.<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:27:11 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>&lt;fontfamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Helvetica&lt;/param&gt;It's unlikely the 3I would =<BR>*announce* any tampering with or constraints on the X-boat net. To do so =<BR>would affect confidence in and revenue from the net, and drive =<BR>communications to other providers. This would all harm trade, the 3I's =<BR>foundation.<BR><BR>Whether the 3I/IRIS would *actually* tap or tamper with the X-boat net =<BR>is another matter. It's hard to imagine they wouldn't, but then again if =<BR>word got out, it would be very damaging.<BR><BR>So X-boat messages would have the equivalent of at least Crown/Federal =<BR>protection.<BR><BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Tuesday, November 7, 2000, at 01:53 PM, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;The X-boat network, =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;even though it tied together all the =<BR>worlds, also permitted the 3I to =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;control the information =<BR>flow.&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;Would the 3I have the motivation and =<BR>ability to go further?&nbsp; Would there be =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;clauses put onto X-boat messages =<BR>whereby the Imperium has the legal right =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;to rifle through the databases of =<BR>X-boats?&nbsp; &lt;/italic&gt;=<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:27:59 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>&lt;=<BR>flushleft&gt;&lt;fontfamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Helvetica&lt;/param&gt;&lt;x-tabstops&gt;&lt;param&gt;28L;56L;8=<BR>4L;112L;140L;168L;196L;224L;252L;280L;308L;336L;&lt;/param&gt;It's unlikely =<BR>the 3I would *announce* any tampering with or constraints on the X-boat =<BR>net. To do so would affect confidence in and revenue from the net, and =<BR>drive communications to other providers. This would all harm trade, the =<BR>3I's foundation.<BR><BR>Whether the 3I/IRIS would *actually* tap or tamper with the X-boat net =<BR>is another matter. It's hard to imagine they wouldn't, but then again if =<BR>word got out, it would be very damaging.<BR><BR>So X-boat messages would have the equivalent of at least Crown/Federal =<BR>protection.<BR><BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Tuesday, November 7, 2000, at 01:53 PM, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;The X-boat network, =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;even though it tied together all the =<BR>worlds, also permitted the 3I to =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;control the information =<BR>flow.&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;Would the 3I have the motivation and =<BR>ability to go further?&nbsp; Would there be =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;clauses put onto X-boat messages =<BR>whereby the Imperium has the legal right =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;to rifle through the databases of =<BR>X-boats?&nbsp; &lt;/italic&gt; &lt;/x-tabstops&gt;&lt;/fontfamily&gt;&lt;/flushleft&gt;=<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 15:39:52 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Would the 3I have the motivation and ability to go further?&nbsp; Would there be <BR>&gt;clauses put onto X-boat messages whereby the Imperium has the legal right <BR>&gt;to rifle through the databases of X-boats?&nbsp; <BR><BR>Depends whether the average Imperial citizen has access to a Far<BR>Future version of PGP - although even the "From" and "To" headers on<BR>x-mails could reveal some interesting information.&nbsp; And frankly, the<BR>volume of message traffic between high-population worlds is (IMO)<BR>going to be so large that only statistical data-sampling methods will<BR>be effective.<BR><BR>&gt;More prosaically, would the 3I enforce 'decency censorship' rather than <BR>&gt;merely 'military movement censorship?' Would, say, a video clip sent via <BR>&gt;X-boat be subject to Imperial censorship laws based on content?&nbsp; <BR><BR>Possibly, but it doesn't seem to fit the 3I ethos.&nbsp; With 11,000 worlds<BR>of widely varying cultures, whose standards of taste and decency will<BR>be used to judge the messages?&nbsp; Maybe Imperial Censor Eneri comes from<BR>an enclosed climate-controlled dome-world where clothing (other than<BR>protective gear) is never worn, and Imperial Censor Selim comes from a<BR>world where any exposure of bare flesh in public is punishable by<BR>death by stoning.&nbsp; They're unlikely to agree on the classification to<BR>give a video...<BR><BR>&gt;Granted, <BR>&gt;the Imperium supposedly does not interfere with local laws and customs <BR>&gt;(yeah, right =) but would the ICS or even some subsector ICS chiefs say, <BR>&gt;'Not via MY X-boats!' and have 'decency' regulations for what may be <BR>&gt;transported by X-boats?<BR><BR>If they do have any such laws, I think they'd have to be on grounds of<BR>"national security", not decency.&nbsp; For example, pro-psionics material<BR>might be banned ("giving aid and comfort to the Zhodanis").&nbsp; <BR><BR>Furthermore, some of the more extreme pornography, etc, and also such<BR>things as illegal drugs, might be banned by the Imperial authorities -<BR>NOT because they take any official line on their moral value or<BR>suitability (that would be an unconstitutional violation of free<BR>trade), but on practical grounds.&nbsp; If public opinion on many worlds in<BR>a region is hostile enough to such materials, the planetary<BR>governments may be tempted to take direct action against the worlds<BR>producing the stuff.&nbsp; Sort of like the "War on Drugs", except with<BR>orbital bombardment.&nbsp; So, by taking pragmatic action early on to<BR>suppress such trade, the Imperium prevents inter-world disputes<BR>escalating into open warfare.&nbsp; Of course, I would expect any such bans<BR>to be set up by the Imperial noble on the spot in response to<BR>particular problems, rather than being a pan-Imperium general policy.<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3266<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye01.mx.aol.com (rly-ye01.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.198]) by air-ye02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.20) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:43:52 1900<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:43:32 1900<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA42591;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:42:29 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:41:54 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA42545<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:41:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:41:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011071541.KAA42545@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3266<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, November 7 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3267<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Movies<BR>TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR>Re: TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR>RE: TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR>Re: Movies<BR>Re: Movies<BR>Re: Sword Worlds<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR>Imperial Censorship (was Re: Movies)<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR>Re: calling Jesse<BR>Re: calling Jesse<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Virus?<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR>RE: Movies<BR>RE: Virus?<BR>RE: Movies<BR>Re: Movies<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Re: Movies<BR>re: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR>Re: GT Virus - GT exotic races<BR>Re: EMP bursts<BR>Re: GT: Virus?<BR>Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:59:35 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>&gt; More prosaically, would the 3I enforce 'decency censorship'<BR>&gt; rather than merely 'military movement censorship?' Would, say,<BR>&gt; a video clip sent via X-boat be subject to Imperial censorship<BR>&gt; laws based on content?&nbsp; Granted, the Imperium supposedly does<BR>&gt; not interfere with local laws and customs (yeah, right =) but<BR>&gt; would the ICS or even some subsector ICS chiefs say, 'Not via<BR>&gt; MY X-boats!' and have 'decency' regulations for what may be <BR>&gt; transported by X-boats?<BR><BR>If the 3I has no standard&nbsp; culture&nbsp; which&nbsp; would&nbsp; frame&nbsp; standard<BR>ideas of 'decency' it would have to be up to the&nbsp; individual&nbsp; ICS<BR>chief.&nbsp; You could end up with a&nbsp; situation&nbsp; where&nbsp; an&nbsp; ICS&nbsp; chief<BR>comes from a culture where eating in public is&nbsp; taboo:&nbsp; think&nbsp; of<BR>all the meal scenes in entertainment vids that would go under the<BR>censors knife!<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:20:42 +0000<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;unsubtle hint&gt; Wouldn't it be a good idea for UK TMLrs to join the<BR>&gt;TravellerUK list at eGroups!<BR><BR><BR>What you mean there's a TravellerUK list?<BR><BR>Why didn't someone mention it?&nbsp; Sign me up.<BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:32:16 -0000<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR><BR>Subject: TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;unsubtle hint&gt; Wouldn't it be a good idea for UK TMLrs to join the<BR>&gt;TravellerUK list at eGroups!<BR><BR><BR>What you mean there's a TravellerUK list?<BR><BR>Why didn't someone mention it?&nbsp; Sign me up.<BR><BR>tc<BR>&lt;&lt;<BR>tc stand for top cat?<BR>Yep, don't be shy, come on lets have the link for this list so that I can<BR>hook up.<BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:33:31 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR><BR>http://www.egroups.com/group/Travelleruk<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;<BR>&gt; tc stand for top cat?<BR>&gt; Yep, don't be shy, come on lets have the link for this list <BR>&gt; so that I can<BR>&gt; hook up.<BR>&gt; Mike<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>&gt; ICQ#27333894<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:38:53 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt;From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Movies<BR>...<BR>&gt;Would the 3I have the motivation and ability to go further?&nbsp; Would there be <BR>&gt;clauses put onto X-boat messages whereby the Imperium has the legal right <BR>&gt;to rifle through the databases of X-boats? <BR><BR>&nbsp; Motivation, yes, but the ability would almost certainly be way less<BR>than the agencies involved would like (luckily for everyone!).<BR><BR>&nbsp; And the Imperium is built of a lot of organizations - private or<BR>governmentak - that see themselves as the sole arbiters of what is<BR>and isn't important.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:41:43 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt;From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Movies<BR>...<BR>&gt;Whether the 3I/IRIS would *actually* tap or tamper with the X-boat net =<BR>&gt;is another matter. It's hard to imagine they wouldn't, but then again if =<BR>&gt;word got out, it would be very damaging.<BR><BR>&nbsp; And word is expected to get out how? :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:14:32 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>David Smart commented:<BR><BR>&gt; "Not the big threat"?!?!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As I recall, they kicked some *serious* Imperial butt in Lanth<BR>&gt; subsector during the Fifth Frontier War. If they'd had Jump-5<BR>&gt; capable fleets or a better refueling scheme (or both) to get<BR>&gt; across the empty space in Lanth, Rhylanor would have had a<BR>&gt; *really* bad year.<BR>[...]<BR>&gt; The Sworld Worlds don't get the attention they deserve,<BR>&gt; as I proved in a variant game of FFW some years back. I<BR>&gt; couldn't take Rhylanor but I scared the bejesus out of the<BR>&gt; Impy player and surprised the Zho player as well.<BR><BR>My (admittedly limited) experience with 5FW is that the Sword Worlders<BR>are not a major threat to Rhylanor.&nbsp; As Vice-Marshal Lord Bryor put it<BR>in TNS, Rhylanor is right next to the entry points for major Imperial<BR>reinforcements.&nbsp; By the time the SW can get there, they're courting a<BR>major disaster from fleets that just *happen* to be passing through.<BR><BR>Lanth has no integral planetary defenses, so the SW can just walk in<BR>and take it if you don't pre-position troops there.&nbsp; However, I recall<BR>one game in which three tech-15 infantry brigades (3x 10-15) held off<BR>much of the Sword Worlds army group for a long time.&nbsp; Whether or not<BR>Lanth is worth it early on is another question.&nbsp; But Rhylanor itself<BR>has a *much* larger tech-15 planetary defense force, and tech-15 SDBs.<BR><BR>On the other hand, the only worlds in the Lanth and Vilis area in 5FW<BR>with decent defenses are Vilis and Garda-Vilis; Frenzie is a vaccuum<BR>world that's hard to hold against invasion, and the rest of the area<BR>is fairly low-tech.&nbsp; This means the Sword World fleets make a great<BR>distraction on the Imperial flank.&nbsp; Usually, the Imperial player has<BR>to figure out what force to target with their initial reinforcements<BR>first -- do they crush the Sword World fleets, or try to contain the<BR>massive Zhodani attack?<BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 09:16:15 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>And this differs from the supposed science in most SF (any media) how? :&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Then the incorrect science stuff. The one which annoyed me the most:<BR>&gt;grenades which kill you in a particularly nasty way by splashing liquid<BR>&gt;nitrogen on you. And they also freeze large areas of the ocean in a<BR>&gt;particularly dramatic way. I've reached into LN to retrieve small objects on<BR>&gt;many occasions, and never experienced the hideous instant death described in<BR>&gt;this book.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 11:51:52 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Imperial Censorship (was Re: Movies)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 15:39:52 GMT<BR>&gt;From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt;If they do have any such laws, I think they'd have to be on grounds of<BR>&gt;"national security", not decency.&nbsp; For example, pro-psionics material<BR>&gt;might be banned ("giving aid and comfort to the Zhodanis").&nbsp; <BR><BR>*Is* banned, according to Adv. 2 (p. 21):<BR><BR>"Library. This long curved room is lined with shelves of books, unusual in<BR>that most collections of data would be computerized or on microfilm. At<BR>first there is no apparent subject for the library, but closer examination<BR>shows three primary subjects which are well covered. These are:<BR>"...Psionics in general. ...many of the books are unavailable to ordinary<BR>individuals, being psionics instructions texts or books banned by the<BR>Imperium.<BR>"...much of this information is in book form because it then stays out of<BR>computer banks where casual inquiries could uncover it. It is a form of<BR>security classification." <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:31:04 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>Luther Martin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've reached into LN to retrieve small objects on<BR>&gt; many occasions, and never experienced the hideous instant death described in<BR>&gt; this book.<BR><BR>Bet you're one of those teflon-fingered people who don't need hotpads,<BR>either ;-P<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:33:52 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: calling Jesse<BR><BR>Find the current edition of Computer Arts Magazine, (it's a UK mag, but<BR>you may well be able to find it here in the States) <BR><BR>It has Poser 3.0 on the accommpanying CD for free. Getting it via back<BR>order may well be possible, and reasonably cheap.<BR><BR>Charles R Hensley wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I am requesting an official upgrade in status from "Wanabe" to "Rank<BR>&gt; Amature" in the Traveller 3D art club.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/art.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; These are works in progress.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Charles R Hensley<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; P.S.&nbsp; is there anyplace that I can get poser figures on the web, I need<BR>&gt; people in some of the art I want to do but cannot afford poser at this<BR>&gt; time.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:40:06 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: calling Jesse<BR><BR>DAMN where's that 'yank that e-mail from the net' button!!!???<BR><BR>I meant '3-D World' magazine...&lt;smack&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:09:21 +0000<BR>From: Martin Hardgrave &lt;martin@deira.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In message &lt;NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEMICGAA.carlino@home.com&gt;, Terry<BR>Carlino &lt;carlino@home.com&gt; writes<BR>&gt;Oh Oh, now you've done it Leonard. You've almost used their name in direct<BR>&gt;violation of their iron clad patent<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ^^^^<BR>ITYM "clam" HTH HAND<BR>- -- <BR>Martin Hardgrave<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:51:12 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Virus?<BR><BR>Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A good question. The release of Virus into the G:T universe would probably<BR>&gt; have much the same effect as the release during the Rebellion did (not<BR>&gt; necessarily the fall of the Imperium, but a pretty major chuck of<BR>&gt; devestation).<BR>&gt; Since the G:T timeline is basically the standard timeline with one change<BR>&gt; (Dulinor killed rather than Strephon) we know that Virus is still sitting in<BR>&gt; it's lab, waiting for a chance to kick some booty. <BR><BR>Actually, I believe that research leading to Virus, whihle it had it's<BR>roots in the development of the Deyo transponders, wasn't pursued until<BR>after the rebellion started, and probably not concoieved as a weapon<BR>until then.<BR><BR>While there's probably considerable research on the Cymbeline chips<BR>occuring, I'll lay great odds that it's in the ship-automation and AI<BR>variety, not as a weapon.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:52:52 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; In message &lt;NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEMICGAA.carlino@home.com&gt;, Terry<BR>&gt; Carlino &lt;carlino@home.com&gt; writes<BR>&gt; &gt;Oh Oh, now you've done it Leonard. You've almost used their <BR>&gt; name in direct<BR>&gt; &gt;violation of their iron clad patent<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^^^^<BR>&gt; ITYM "clam" HTH HAND<BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Martin Hardgrave<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Huh?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 17:59:29 GMT<BR>From: "Gary Miles" &lt;garyglennmiles@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>&gt;From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- --- Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;An adventure in a ice-bound research station in which you can trust<BR>&gt;absolutely nobody has great gaming potential.&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"The Thing?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Another Must Read (AMR): If you want a good hard-SF military adventure<BR>&gt;(just ripe for Traveller), try Ian Douglas' Heritage Trilogy (Semper<BR>&gt;Mars, Luna Marine, Europa Strike).&nbsp; As you can tell from the titles,<BR>&gt;these deal with Marines -- the first book has them slugging it out with<BR>&gt;the bad guys (UN forces) on Mars, the second has them slugging it out<BR>&gt;with the bad guys (UN forces) on the Moon, and the third book has them<BR>&gt;slugging it out with the bad guys (Chinese [thought I was going to say<BR>&gt;UN forces, didn't you?]) on Jupiter's moon, Europa.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;These books are very quick reads, and there is enough detail to flesh<BR>&gt;out most mid-tech (Traveller TL 9 to 11) societies.&nbsp; The author, much<BR>&gt;like Tom Clancy, actually tries to describe how the technology<BR>&gt;functions, so these books might better be classified as Speculative<BR>&gt;Fiction Techno Thrillers.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=====<BR>&gt;Gerry Harris<BR><BR>Would the series get more readers from the TML if we reveal that "Ian <BR>Douglas" is really William H. Keith?&nbsp; Because he is...<BR><BR>Gary<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:03:25 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>TML@stempest.demon.co.uk wrote:<BR>&gt; Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; More prosaically, would the 3I enforce 'decency censorship'<BR>&gt; &gt; rather than merely 'military movement censorship?' Would, say,<BR>&gt; &gt; a video clip sent via X-boat be subject to Imperial censorship<BR>&gt; &gt; laws based on content?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Possibly, but it doesn't seem to fit the 3I ethos.&nbsp; With 11,000<BR>&gt; worlds of widely varying cultures, whose standards of taste and<BR>&gt; decency will be used to judge the messages?&nbsp; Maybe Imperial Censor<BR>&gt; Eneri comes from an enclosed climate-controlled dome-world where<BR>&gt; clothing (other than protective gear) is never worn, and Imperial<BR>&gt; Censor Selim comes from a world where any exposure of bare flesh<BR>&gt; in public is punishable by death by stoning.&nbsp; They're unlikely to<BR>&gt; agree on the classification to give a video...<BR><BR>Just a thought:&nbsp; the&nbsp; 3I&nbsp; wouldn't&nbsp; but&nbsp; many&nbsp; local&nbsp; (planetary)<BR>governments would.&nbsp; I can see a mega proxy-server&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; gateway<BR>between the local planetary net and the X-boat&nbsp; system.&nbsp; Such&nbsp; an<BR>installation would be run by&nbsp; the&nbsp; local&nbsp; equivalent&nbsp; of&nbsp; a&nbsp; data<BR>customs &amp; excise ... their resources based on law level (which in<BR>the normal rules is a roll against police 'harrassment'&nbsp; anyway).<BR>Including a scan for 3I mandated data&nbsp; contraband&nbsp; (eg.&nbsp; military<BR>intelligence, literature on psionics, etc) would by&nbsp; one&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>planetary government's Imperial obligations.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:06:33 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Virus?<BR><BR>&gt; Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; A good question. The release of Virus into the G:T universe <BR>&gt; would probably<BR>&gt; &gt; have much the same effect as the release during the <BR>&gt; Rebellion did (not<BR>&gt; &gt; necessarily the fall of the Imperium, but a pretty major chuck of<BR>&gt; &gt; devestation).<BR>&gt; &gt; Since the G:T timeline is basically the standard timeline <BR>&gt; with one change<BR>&gt; &gt; (Dulinor killed rather than Strephon) we know that Virus is <BR>&gt; still sitting in<BR>&gt; &gt; it's lab, waiting for a chance to kick some booty. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, I believe that research leading to Virus, whihle it had it's<BR>&gt; roots in the development of the Deyo transponders, wasn't <BR>&gt; pursued until<BR>&gt; after the rebellion started, and probably not concoieved as a weapon<BR>&gt; until then.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While there's probably considerable research on the Cymbeline chips<BR>&gt; occuring, I'll lay great odds that it's in the ship-automation and AI<BR>&gt; variety, not as a weapon.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>I certainly hope so. And has anyone seen today's JTAS poll?<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:09:40 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just a thought:&nbsp; the&nbsp; 3I&nbsp; wouldn't&nbsp; but&nbsp; many&nbsp; local&nbsp; (planetary)<BR>&gt; governments would.&nbsp; I can see a mega proxy-server&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; gateway<BR>&gt; between the local planetary net and the X-boat&nbsp; system.&nbsp; Such&nbsp; an<BR>&gt; installation would be run by&nbsp; the&nbsp; local&nbsp; equivalent&nbsp; of&nbsp; a&nbsp; data<BR>&gt; customs &amp; excise ... their resources based on law level (which in<BR>&gt; the normal rules is a roll against police 'harrassment'&nbsp; anyway).<BR>&gt; Including a scan for 3I mandated data&nbsp; contraband&nbsp; (eg.&nbsp; military<BR>&gt; intelligence, literature on psionics, etc) would by&nbsp; one&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; planetary government's Imperial obligations.<BR><BR><BR>Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm gonna steal that<BR>for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has FTL comms and<BR>Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:13:45 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Just a thought:&nbsp; the&nbsp; 3I&nbsp; wouldn't&nbsp; but&nbsp; many&nbsp; local&nbsp; (planetary)<BR>&gt; &gt; governments would.&nbsp; I can see a mega proxy-server&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; gateway<BR>&gt; &gt; between the local planetary net and the X-boat&nbsp; system.&nbsp; Such&nbsp; an<BR>&gt; &gt; installation would be run by&nbsp; the&nbsp; local&nbsp; equivalent&nbsp; of&nbsp; a&nbsp; data<BR>&gt; &gt; customs &amp; excise ... their resources based on law level (which in<BR>&gt; &gt; the normal rules is a roll against police 'harrassment'&nbsp; anyway).<BR>&gt; &gt; Including a scan for 3I mandated data&nbsp; contraband&nbsp; (eg.&nbsp; military<BR>&gt; &gt; intelligence, literature on psionics, etc) would by&nbsp; one&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; planetary government's Imperial obligations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm gonna steal<BR>that<BR>&gt; for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has FTL comms and<BR>&gt; Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>Imagine what they do in SolCon. Not just planetary firewalls, but local<BR>sniffers at every major data switch, looking for contraband data sent<BR>between local users.&nbsp; Just assumed every electronic form of communication is<BR>monitored.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:44:56 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; b. Hyperoxia<BR>&gt; This is an unusual situation. No world atmosphere will have an oxygen<BR>&gt; content in excess of 0.3 ATA. At typical Traveller TLs, hyperbaric<BR>&gt; environments are rare.<BR><BR>No world will have such an atmosphere for a geologically significant<BR>timespan. But I can *easily* see it happening due to porrly handled (or<BR>accidental!) "terraforming".<BR><BR>Release algae into a "typical pre-biotic" world, with all those organic<BR>compounds and a N2/CO2,H2O atmosphere, and they'd be likely to cause an<BR>overshoot of quite a bit before something cuts them back. <BR><BR>The oxygen in the air will take a long to to build to breathable<BR>levels, as it'll be busily oxidizing all the "reduced" minerals and the<BR>like. But once that phase is past, the next phase will be a steady<BR>increase in O2 levels until finally dead algae and other "organic scum"<BR>on the beaches ignite spontaneously. <BR><BR>I'd say there could be a period of weeks to years where the O2 levels<BR>were dangerous. And of course, the playewrs just "happen" to be on<BR>world then. &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>Of course, at those levels the players may have other things to worry<BR>about. Like the fact that their *bodies* are flammable...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:29:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: Re: Movies<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt;&gt;Whether the 3I/IRIS would *actually* tap or tamper with the X-boat net =<BR>&gt;&gt;is another matter. It's hard to imagine they wouldn't, but then again if =<BR>&gt;&gt;word got out, it would be very damaging.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; And word is expected to get out how? :)<BR><BR>When someone physically travel between two worlds and is shown the<BR>altered messages or tells his correspondent there about the messages he<BR>sent that never arrived. <BR><BR>Frankly, given that trade is the backbone of the Imperium, and trade<BR>requires transport of business reated messages in a reliable manner,<BR>censoring messages isn't going to happen.<BR><BR>*Reading* them might happen.<BR><BR>In either case, keep in mind that businesses (and privte citizens) have<BR>used codes &amp; ciphers for *centuries*. It won't be that different in the<BR>future unless either a practical "universal codebreaker" is found, or<BR>(as seems likely) a practical "unbreakable code" is found.<BR><BR>With the advent of the telegraph, "commercial codes" came into being.<BR>As much to save on the "per word" charges as to prevent competitors<BR>from bribing someone for a copy of your messages.<BR><BR>They save on the "per word" charges by having a single code group<BR>(word) stand for an entire phrase. And that sort of thing (as data<BR>compression) will still be useful for x-boat messages. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 12:36:43 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: re: "Clue" vs. "Cluedo"<BR><BR>At 01:25 07.11.00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Okay, in North America it's known as "Clue!".&nbsp; This makes sense, since the<BR>&gt; &gt;game is about solving a mystery with clues.&nbsp; But what the heck is the name<BR>&gt; &gt;"Cluedo" (the european version) about?&nbsp; What does "Cluedo" mean?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The European version was only published in Esperanto (cluedo just means clue<BR>&gt;in Esperanto), so that the publisher could save the cost of multiple<BR>&gt;translations.&nbsp; I understand that Indicium is going to be the next attempt to<BR>&gt;get a universal language version of the game out for the European market.<BR>Nope, my version is in german, and ive also seen Dutch and French versions.<BR><BR>BTW: Publishing ANYTHING in Esperanto only would be a bad marketing move, <BR>considering how few people actually speak the language.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:58:01 EST<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: GT Virus - GT exotic races<BR><BR>- --part1_26.d061901.2739b8c9_boundary<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/7/00 7:43:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; GT: Virus?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While I do realize that the "official" GT timeline for GT omits Virus, at<BR>&gt; the same time, this is GURPS. I mean, they have everything. Would there not<BR>&gt; be some value to a GT:Virus volume. (Perhaps part of some GURPS: Apocolypse<BR>&gt; or something sourcebook.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>GT: Virus isn't going to happen. However maybe a GT: Exotic races might be <BR>worthwhile (covering the cymbelines, it should cover the Jgd-Il-jagd(but I <BR>think they are covered elsewhere), the Brinn and other such).<BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR><BR>- --part1_26.d061901.2739b8c9_boundary<BR>Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR><FONT size=2>In a message dated 11/7/00 7:43:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"&gt;GT: Virus?<BR><BR><BR><BR>While I do realize that the "official" GT timeline for GT omits Virus, at<BR><BR>the same time, this is GURPS. I mean, they have everything. Would there not<BR><BR>be some value to a GT:Virus volume. (Perhaps part of some GURPS: Apocolypse<BR><BR>or something sourcebook.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>GT: Virus isn't going to happen. However maybe a GT: Exotic races might be <BR>worthwhile (covering the cymbelines, it should cover the Jgd-Il-jagd(but I <BR>think they are covered elsewhere), the Brinn and other such).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR></FONT><BR><BR>- --part1_26.d061901.2739b8c9_boundary--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:05:26 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: EMP bursts<BR><BR>At 18:29 -0500 6/11/00, Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Trevor, Peter writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; A question's just come up over on the Traveller: Full Thrust list<BR>&gt; &gt; and I know all the scientists are over here:<BR>&gt; &gt; If you detonate a nuke in open space do you get an EMP,&nbsp; or&nbsp; does<BR>&gt; &gt; such only exist in a planet's magnetsphere?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;IIRC there's some atmospheric interactions, so no, but in practice it really<BR>&gt;doesn't matter.&nbsp; Traveller starships may be routinely assumed to be<BR>&gt;invulnerable to EMP, starships really do need hardened electronics,<BR>&gt;particularly if you're doing weird things like gas giant refueling.<BR><BR>It does matter if you are considering the impact on sensors <BR>(transitory as it will be). Basically, at the moment we are using <BR>nuclear detonations in a similar manner to 2300's Star Cruiser and <BR>providing a temporary sensor white out in that hex.... Pete is trying <BR>to confirm that this is feasible.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 13:03:04<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Virus?<BR><BR>At 01:17 AM 11/7/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;While I do realize that the "official" GT timeline for GT omits Virus, at<BR>&gt;the same time, this is GURPS. I mean, they have everything. Would there not<BR>&gt;be some value to a GT:Virus volume. (Perhaps part of some GURPS: Apocolypse<BR>&gt;or something sourcebook.)<BR><BR>Pick up GURPS: Y2K for fun advice on how to play collapsing societies.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 14:18:30 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; Imagine what they do in SolCon. Not just planetary firewalls, but local<BR>&gt; sniffers at every major data switch, looking for contraband data sent<BR>&gt; between local users.&nbsp; Just assumed every electronic form of communication is<BR>&gt; monitored.<BR><BR>Monitored by WHAT??? Do you have any clue HOW much electronic traffic<BR>will be generated by a TL16 Pop 9 world? This will end up like modern<BR>(well, TL 6, anyway) surveillance states like East Germany or Romania<BR>under Ceausescu; they had huge warehouses full of data stockpiled on<BR>their citizens, recorders going on every phone exchange in the country,<BR>and no way of making effective use of the data. Their internal spies<BR>were swamped with data with no way of telling what was important and<BR>what wasn't.<BR><BR>Even filtering stuff using some sort of search criteria will still only<BR>find the specifics you're looking for. Under this sort of load, the<BR>mildest form of encryption will evade those filters.<BR><BR>So they'll look for encrypted items??<BR><BR>quick, what is this:<BR><BR>R*&lt;rgFJӕnMtT<BR>S<HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3268</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/7/00 5:03:33 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, November 7 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3268<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: EMP bursts<BR>Re: GT Humaniti<BR>Re: GT: Virus?<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR>L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>political correctness<BR>Re: Virus<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3266<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Sword Worlds<BR>Re: TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR>RE: EMP bursts<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Controlling information (Was: Movies)<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: calling Jesse<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:31:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>Perhaps the need to sift through vast quantities of intercepted<BR>information quickly is at least partially responsible for the interest<BR>of the Solomani in artifical intelligences, direct connections between<BR>computers and human brains, and related technologies.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:35:12 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: EMP bursts<BR><BR>At 9:13 PM +0000 11/6/00, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>&gt;A question's just come up over on the Traveller: Full Thrust list<BR>&gt;and I know all the scientists are over here:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If you detonate a nuke in open space do you get an EMP,&nbsp; or&nbsp; does<BR>&gt;such only exist in a planet's magnetsphere?<BR><BR>You don't automatically get an EMP from a space detonation.<BR>EMP requires some asymmetry.&nbsp; However, you can shape charge<BR>nuclear explosions just like other explosions and that can<BR>get you an EMP<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:40:13 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Humaniti<BR><BR>At 11:21 PM -0800 11/3/00, Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>&gt;Yes, I'll second this....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Thou we're gonna have to find some one Lillywhite to translate 'em.<BR><BR><BR>If you need someone to help with racial packages, I can.&nbsp; (Though<BR>I know next to nothing about the Sayat so I would need at least<BR>a verbal basis to work from)<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:42:49 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Virus?<BR><BR>At 1:17 AM -0800 11/7/00, Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt;While I do realize that the "official" GT timeline for GT omits Virus, at<BR>&gt;the same time, this is GURPS. I mean, they have everything. Would there not<BR>&gt;be some value to a GT:Virus volume. (Perhaps part of some GURPS: Apocolypse<BR>&gt;or something sourcebook.)<BR><BR><BR>My understanding is that SJG is specifically prohibited from<BR>producing anything about Virus.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:10:26 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt; Monitored by WHAT??? Do you have any clue HOW much electronic traffic<BR>&gt; will be generated by a TL16 Pop 9 world? This will end up like modern<BR>&gt; (well, TL 6, anyway) surveillance states like East Germany or Romania<BR>&gt; under Ceausescu; they had huge warehouses full of data stockpiled on<BR>&gt; their citizens, recorders going on every phone exchange in the country,<BR>&gt; and no way of making effective use of the data. Their internal spies<BR>&gt; were swamped with data with no way of telling what was important and<BR>&gt; what wasn't.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Even filtering stuff using some sort of search criteria will still only<BR>&gt; find the specifics you're looking for. Under this sort of load, the<BR>&gt; mildest form of encryption will evade those filters.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So they'll look for encrypted items??<BR><BR>No one said it would be 100% effective.&nbsp; But a couple of factor will work<BR>for the state.&nbsp; 1. Most users will not be very sophisticated.&nbsp; This is<BR>useful for monitoring Joe average.&nbsp; How many people will actually use<BR>cryotography, let alone cryptographic messages sophisticated enough to<BR>defeat the vast resources of the state. 2.&nbsp; The act of sending encrypted<BR>messages may, itself, be a crime.&nbsp; "What are you hiding citizen? Only<BR>someone with something to hide needs encryption."&nbsp; 3, nonsensical messages<BR>may them self raise a flag.&nbsp; "This source is continously sending nonsense,<BR>investigate more thoroughly".&nbsp; Electronic monitoring will only be a part of<BR>the system.<BR><BR>Also, unlike the DDR and Romania, we can expect much more sophisticated<BR>(non-human) processing.&nbsp; Neural nets trained to hunt for questionable<BR>message?&nbsp; who knows.&nbsp; Possible SolSec actually monitors a small fraction of<BR>messages--which ones.&nbsp; Sending 'dangerous messages' safely becomes a crap<BR>shoot.&nbsp; Care to bet your life against the resources of the state? Hey, you<BR>could get lucky.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:10:31 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt; Monitored by WHAT??? Do you have any clue HOW much electronic traffic<BR>&gt; will be generated by a TL16 Pop 9 world? This will end up like modern<BR>&gt; (well, TL 6, anyway) surveillance states like East Germany or Romania<BR>&gt; under Ceausescu; they had huge warehouses full of data stockpiled on<BR>&gt; their citizens, recorders going on every phone exchange in the country,<BR>&gt; and no way of making effective use of the data. Their internal spies<BR>&gt; were swamped with data with no way of telling what was important and<BR>&gt; what wasn't.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Even filtering stuff using some sort of search criteria will still only<BR>&gt; find the specifics you're looking for. Under this sort of load, the<BR>&gt; mildest form of encryption will evade those filters.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So they'll look for encrypted items??<BR><BR>No one said it would be 100% effective.&nbsp; But a couple of factor will work<BR>for the state.&nbsp; 1. Most users will not be very sophisticated.&nbsp; This is<BR>useful for monitoring Joe average.&nbsp; How many people will actually use<BR>cryotography, let alone cryptographic messages sophisticated enough to<BR>defeat the vast resources of the state. 2.&nbsp; The act of sending encrypted<BR>messages may, itself, be a crime.&nbsp; "What are you hiding citizen? Only<BR>someone with something to hide needs encryption."&nbsp; 3, nonsensical messages<BR>may them self raise a flag.&nbsp; "This source is continously sending nonsense,<BR>investigate more thoroughly".&nbsp; Electronic monitoring will only be a part of<BR>the system.<BR><BR>Also, unlike the DDR and Romania, we can expect much more sophisticated<BR>(non-human) processing.&nbsp; Neural nets trained to hunt for questionable<BR>message?&nbsp; who knows.&nbsp; Possible SolSec actually monitors a small fraction of<BR>messages--which ones.&nbsp; Sending 'dangerous messages' safely becomes a crap<BR>shoot.&nbsp; Care to bet your life against the resources of the state? Hey, you<BR>could get lucky.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:53:23 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Minor races vs. mere cultural groups (Was: SW)<BR><BR>&gt;That may be what it means when you say it, but 90% of the time political<BR>&gt;correctness that I've encountered is good old prissiness, and some of the<BR>&gt;most politically correct people I've ever met have no trouble being rude<BR>&gt;and insulting and nasty when it comes to people who don't share their<BR>&gt;opinions.<BR><BR>&lt;snip feminist example&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It sounds like those who you're talking about are simply using a line of<BR>feminist terms insultingly in an attempt to bully you. I don't know that I<BR>see that as "political correctness". It sounds more like a severe lack of<BR>maturity.<BR><BR>&gt;Tell me that "collaborator" or "male-identified" isn't as much of an<BR>&gt;insult as "half-breed Jap bitch".&nbsp; At least the person saying the second<BR>&gt;one wasn't pretending to be enlightened!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Clearly in the scenario you've presented "collaborator" and<BR>"male-identified" are clearly insults given the context. "Collaborator" is<BR>akin to "class traitor", "race traitor" and "middle-class degenerate". They<BR>are all meant as insults, they're not really part of the politically correct<BR>canon. As far as "male-identified" goes, it's just a case of someone using a<BR>sociologically-oriented vocabulary word as an insult. Sometimes folks just<BR>end up with a little more education than their maturity can support. :)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Note that I'm not doubting that such people would espouse a notion of<BR>political correctness.<BR><BR>&gt;Hence, junior high and high school students using the term "gay" as a<BR>&gt;pejorative "oh, that's so gay" and gay people calling themselves "queers"<BR>&gt;in an effort to reclaim the word.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I give up.&nbsp; I agree with you here, Chris (is the world ending?)-- it<BR>&gt;doesn't matter what you call a swickerdoodle, if everyone thinks that<BR>&gt;swickerdoodles are evil, the new word will become pejorative too.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It doesn't look like the end of the world is nigh, Kiri. :)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; All I'm going to add is that it's kind of pointless to try and fight<BR>consciously held ideologies with tactics intended to root out non-conscious<BR>ideologies. There is a lot to be said for the notion of thinking of the<BR>implications of a statement before speaking or writing. We could probably do<BR>with a little more of that in contemporary American society.<BR><BR>&gt;I really wish people would look at the intent of an utterance.&nbsp; I'd rather<BR>&gt;be called "girl" by an old man who means no harm and is totally respectful<BR>&gt;than "woman" by someone who can make the word into an insult.&nbsp; And I'd<BR>&gt;rather deal with someone who calls me a half-breed Jap bitch than someone<BR>&gt;who calls me a *fancy* nasty name and thinks they're saving me from<BR>&gt;myself, although I'd PREFER not to deal with either.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentiment, with the caveat that<BR>sometimes it's quite difficult to judge intent. In the second case, an<BR>insult is an insult is an insult, no matter how many syllables the term<BR>actually has.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:57:49 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR><BR>http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR>- --<BR>Rupert Boleyn<BR>"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 18:28:49 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR><BR>Bummer.&nbsp; Off-hand, does anyone know if ANY of the other "Golden Age" (by which I mean roughly pre-WWII) SF authors are left?&nbsp; (Arthur Clarke, being 1) British and 2) slightly too young, doesn't count, btw).<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:31:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: political correctness<BR><BR>On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;That may be what it means when you say it, but 90% of the time political<BR>&gt; &gt;correctness that I've encountered is good old prissiness, and some of the<BR>&gt; &gt;most politically correct people I've ever met have no trouble being rude<BR>&gt; &gt;and insulting and nasty when it comes to people who don't share their<BR>&gt; &gt;opinions.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;snip feminist example&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>I find it interesting that you identified the people who were harassing me<BR>about my taste for porn and my thoughts on the issue as feminist; I don't<BR>think of them as such.&nbsp; I think of feminism as being a set of beliefs<BR>according to which more choices for women (and men, for that matter) are<BR>good-- and that doesn't necessarily rule out the notion that members of<BR>either gender might freely choose to take their clothes off in front of a<BR>camera for money.<BR><BR>I think I'm far more "feminist" than they are, being as how I don't<BR>believe women need special protection from scary ideas.<BR><BR>&gt; It sounds like those who you're talking about are simply using a line<BR>&gt; of feminist terms insultingly in an attempt to bully you. I don't know<BR>&gt; that I see that as "political correctness". It sounds more like a<BR>&gt; severe lack of maturity.<BR><BR>You're brighter than they are. =)<BR><BR>&gt; Clearly in the scenario you've presented "collaborator" and<BR>&gt; "male-identified" are clearly insults given the context.<BR>&gt; "Collaborator" is akin to "class traitor", "race traitor" and<BR>&gt; "middle-class degenerate". They are all meant as insults, they're not<BR>&gt; really part of the politically correct canon. As far as<BR>&gt; "male-identified" goes, it's just a case of someone using a<BR>&gt; sociologically-oriented vocabulary word as an insult. Sometimes folks<BR>&gt; just end up with a little more education than their maturity can<BR>&gt; support. :)<BR><BR>LOL.&nbsp; I've never met anyone who considered themselves politically correct<BR>that DIDN'T feel free to insult other people, referring to ordinary folks<BR>as "collaborators" and "oppressors" and the like. <BR><BR>&gt; Note that I'm not doubting that such people would espouse a notion of<BR>&gt; political correctness.<BR><BR>See that is the point-- only certain ideas are politically CORRECT, my<BR>thinking is INCORRECT.&nbsp; It goes beyond polite speech and not using racial<BR>or gender or orientation slurs.<BR><BR>&gt; All I'm going to add is that it's kind of pointless to try and fight<BR>&gt; consciously held ideologies with tactics intended to root out<BR>&gt; non-conscious ideologies. There is a lot to be said for the notion of<BR>&gt; thinking of the implications of a statement before speaking or<BR>&gt; writing. We could probably do with a little more of that in<BR>&gt; contemporary American society.<BR><BR>I agree with you up to a point.&nbsp; Frequently when you and I get into it,<BR>which is why I often avoid responding to you, I am completely baffled by<BR>the way you take my statements and you are equally baffled by the way I<BR>take yours-- I can only assume that our backgrounds are very different to<BR>the point where some words and styles of communication have entirely<BR>different meanings to the two of us.&nbsp; This is similar to cross-cultural<BR>communication.&nbsp; I think that it's a good idea to think about what you are<BR>saying, but I also think that there always exists the possibility that<BR>someone will look at what you said or wrote and derive a meaning from it<BR>that is completely different from what you intended.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;I really wish people would look at the intent of an utterance.&nbsp; I'd rather<BR>&gt; &gt;be called "girl" by an old man who means no harm and is totally respectful<BR>&gt; &gt;than "woman" by someone who can make the word into an insult.&nbsp; And I'd<BR>&gt; &gt;rather deal with someone who calls me a half-breed Jap bitch than someone<BR>&gt; &gt;who calls me a *fancy* nasty name and thinks they're saving me from<BR>&gt; &gt;myself, although I'd PREFER not to deal with either.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentiment, with the caveat that<BR>&gt; sometimes it's quite difficult to judge intent. In the second case, an<BR>&gt; insult is an insult is an insult, no matter how many syllables the term<BR>&gt; actually has.<BR><BR>Yes, but it's doubly insulting to be insulted in solicitous multisyllabic<BR>terms by someone who thinks you are stupid and is good enough at<BR>doubletalk to get other people to smile and nod.&nbsp; When someone simply<BR>calls you a vicious monosyllable, or a string of them, it's clear that<BR>they're ignorant and simply hate you for reasons that may not even have<BR>anything to do with you personally.<BR><BR>Kiri<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:34:18 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Virus<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 01:17:38 -0800<BR>&gt;&nbsp; From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: GT: Virus?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; While I do realize that the "official" GT timeline for GT omits Virus, at<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the same time, this is GURPS. I mean, they have everything. Would there not<BR>&gt;&nbsp; be some value to a GT:Virus volume. (Perhaps part of some GURPS: Apocolypse<BR>&gt;&nbsp; or something sourcebook.)<BR><BR>We are required by the licensing agreement not to deal with certain topics.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 17:45:41 -0600<BR>From: Charles McKnight &lt;cmcknight01@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>Has Clarke ever returned from Sri Lanka?&nbsp; (Last place I heard he was <BR>hanging out).<BR><BR>At 06:28 PM 11/7/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Bummer.&nbsp; Off-hand, does anyone know if ANY of the other "Golden Age" (by <BR>&gt;which I mean roughly pre-WWII) SF authors are left?&nbsp; (Arthur Clarke, being <BR>&gt;1) British and 2) slightly too young, doesn't count, btw).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:38:54 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3266<BR><BR>&gt; Hmm... some spacers may prefer the latter because other modules could be<BR>&gt;&nbsp; plugged in. Artificial gills or high-density oxygen supplies, for<BR>&gt;&nbsp; example. Although, given Imperial cultural mores, overt<BR>&gt;&nbsp; cyberenhancements are out, aren't they...<BR><BR>I always look at it this way: The average Imperial views overt cyber <BR>enhancements they way the average 1930s Southern Baptist viewed skull <BR>flattening and dinner-plate-sized lower lips.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:47:59 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; No one said it would be 100% effective.&nbsp; But a couple of factor will work<BR>&gt; for the state.&nbsp; 1. Most users will not be very sophisticated.&nbsp; This is<BR>&gt; useful for monitoring Joe average.&nbsp; How many people will actually use<BR>&gt; cryotography, let alone cryptographic messages sophisticated enough to<BR>&gt; defeat the vast resources of the state. <BR><BR>Yes, but the examples I posted illustrate that it could be extremely<BR>difficult to _tell_ that encrypted messages are being sent.<BR><BR>&gt; 2.&nbsp; The act of sending encrypted<BR>&gt; messages may, itself, be a crime.&nbsp; "What are you hiding citizen? Only<BR>&gt; someone with something to hide needs encryption."&nbsp; <BR><BR>True, and why encryption software is illegal in places like China, and<BR>why the FBI is so keen to have key escrow here in the US. It all depends<BR>on how public networks end up working at TL 16. Is it an internet-type<BR>thing where it routes around censorship like any other obstruction, or<BR>is it a Microsoftian .NET 'you rent your program, you rent your data<BR>storage, you have no privacy' type of thing?<BR><BR>&gt; 3, nonsensical messages<BR>&gt; may them self raise a flag.&nbsp; "This source is continously sending nonsense,<BR>&gt; investigate more thoroughly".&nbsp; Electronic monitoring will only be a part of<BR>&gt; the system.<BR><BR>Absolutely, though the example I posted is a crude version of<BR>steganography, using text to hide text. Slipping a 132 byte message into<BR>a 2.1 megabyte picture file (the size of my example cleartext) is<BR>another thing entirely. <BR><BR>The other problem, and it's mostly a MTU thing (As well as a OTU thing,<BR>at least per the CT Solomani manual), is that the Solomani Confederation<BR>_isn't_ this monster, rigid, Orwellian totalitarian state. SolSec is but<BR>one branch of the Solomani ruling tripartite, and is theoretically only<BR>the others equal in power.<BR><BR>I see SolSec akin to the KGB during most of the modern Soviet age, after<BR>Beria was purged along with most of the rest of the NKVD. They're not on<BR>the throne, but are merely one of the powers behind it. They have a lot<BR>of dirt on other higher ups, but they have to be careful not to<BR>antagonize too many of them or demand too much because, no matter what<BR>they have it can be ignored if necessary. Witness Beria. He _thought_ he<BR>had the reigns of power because he controlled the secret police. He was<BR>disabused of that notion (and his head) by the other factions in power.<BR>Notice the SolSec Navy is a separate power, as is the head of the Party.<BR>This balances things.<BR><BR>Note, too, that the SolCon is NOT some Marxist/Socialist cum Stalinist<BR>controlled economy state, but a clearly capitalistic mercantile entity,<BR>much like the Imperium, in fact, but with marginally more political<BR>control over the citizen on the ground.<BR><BR>They have Party membership, the 3I has the Nobility. The confederation<BR>is loose enough that trade wars exist between member states, and<BR>sufficient variety of opinion that serious political debate does occur<BR>within the SolCon, witness Jeffrey Long (from Survival Margin) and his<BR>Pan-Sphontist wing of the Party.<BR><BR>Note, all of the above is from my reading of the Solomani Aliens module<BR>and MT products...I haven't gotten Rim of Fire yet.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:02:52 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>&gt;From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;My (admittedly limited) experience with 5FW is that the Sword Worlders<BR>[deletion]<BR>&gt;On the other hand, the only worlds in the Lanth and Vilis area in 5FW<BR>&gt;with decent defenses are Vilis and Garda-Vilis; Frenzie is a vaccuum<BR>&gt;world that's hard to hold against invasion, and the rest of the area<BR>&gt;is fairly low-tech.&nbsp; This means the Sword World fleets make a great<BR>&gt;distraction on the Imperial flank.&nbsp; Usually, the Imperial player has<BR>&gt;to figure out what force to target with their initial reinforcements<BR>&gt;first -- do they crush the Sword World fleets, or try to contain the<BR>&gt;massive Zhodani attack?<BR><BR>I usually put the TL 16 mercenary battalion on, if I recall correctly,<BR>Saurus, and it takes the Sword Worlders forever to dislodge it.&nbsp; They can't<BR>get through Saurus without taking it because it doesn't have a gas giant.<BR>Maybe it's Tavonni or Asgard; I'm not looking at a map.&nbsp; Anyway, because of<BR>the nature of the combat results table, it doesn't matter how many troops<BR>the SW through at the mercenaries.&nbsp; The column shifts still prevent any<BR>mercenary casualties.&nbsp; This forces the Zhodani to designate forces to the<BR>rimward flank, away from their primary areas of interest in Jewell, Regina,<BR>and Aramis subsectors.<BR><BR>I've always assumed that that mercenary battalion is from Darrian.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 21:38:10 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TravellerUK [was DragonMeet or something]<BR><BR>At 16:18 -0500 7/11/00,&nbsp; "michael.scanlon" <BR>&lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;What you mean there's a TravellerUK list?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Why didn't someone mention it?&nbsp; Sign me up.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;tc<BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;<BR>&gt;tc stand for top cat?<BR>&gt;Yep, don't be shy, come on lets have the link for this list so that I can<BR>&gt;hook up.<BR><BR>To subscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>Travelleruk-subscribe@egroups.com<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 01:19:02 CET<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: EMP bursts<BR><BR>&gt;Trevor, Peter writes:<BR>&gt;I was thinking less of frying&nbsp; a&nbsp; ship's&nbsp; electronics,&nbsp; and&nbsp; more<BR>&gt;about a temporary sensor "white&nbsp; out"&nbsp; effect&nbsp; (as&nbsp; mentioned&nbsp; in<BR>&gt;Brilliant Lances).<BR><BR>My problem is that the sensor whiteout is supposed to work for an entire 30 <BR>min round. I can't buy that, especially as space is 3D, and besides it <BR>scales badly with published force sizes. A BatRon could easily use a dozen <BR>nukes every round to employ a "smoke screen" if it felt like it. Battle <BR>between more then just a few missile-armed ships would make it impossible to <BR>maintain a sensor lock among the tens, if not hundreds, of whiteouts.<BR><BR>Patrik Holmstrm<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:32:54 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/7/00 6:29:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Bummer.&nbsp; Off-hand, does anyone know if ANY of the other "Golden Age" (by <BR>&gt; which I mean roughly pre-WWII) SF authors are left?&nbsp; (Arthur Clarke, being <BR>1) <BR>&gt; British and 2) slightly too young, doesn't count, btw).<BR><BR>Jack Williamson is still around, I believe.&nbsp; I can't think of anyone else.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:35:54 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/7/00 6:48:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Note, all of the above is from my reading of the Solomani Aliens module<BR>&gt;&nbsp; and MT products...I haven't gotten Rim of Fire yet.<BR><BR>Your thinking seems to parallel mine for the most part.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:40:06 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Controlling information (Was: Movies)<BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott writes:<BR><BR>&gt;TNE Regency Sourcebook, MT Rebellion Sourcebook, and a bunch of other <BR>&gt;sources make note of the fact that the Xboat system was first and foremost <BR>&gt;a means of communication exchange.&nbsp; It was also a means of communication <BR>&gt;control, hence why X-boats were J-4 and not J-6.&nbsp; To paraphrase Dune: He <BR>&gt;who control the information, controls the Imperium.&nbsp; The X-boat network, <BR>&gt;even though it tied together all the worlds, also permitted the 3I to <BR>&gt;control the information flow.<BR><BR>Unfortunately this is one of those ideas that sounds good but fails to make a<BR>reality (or rather plausibility) check. Canonically there is at least one<BR>other organization with jump-6 couriers, namely the Imperial Navy, which weakens<BR>the usefulness of the Imperiallines setup. Still, if that was all it wouldn't be<BR>so bad, since they are both Imperial outfits. But there are a minimum of 13<BR>other organizations, namely the megacorporations, with both the resources and<BR>the motive to set up their own courier networks. Not necessarily a complete<BR>Imperium-spanning network, but at least one connecting the sector capitals. And<BR>given how useful prior information can be to companies, I would expect most<BR>sector-wide companies to set up lesser jump-6 networks of their own and for<BR>smaller companies to band together to form their own networks. And I can even<BR>see large sector-wide information agencies setting up their own networks if they<BR>can't piggy-back on one of the other networks.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:41:13 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/7/00 5:09:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; No one said it would be 100% effective.&nbsp; But a couple of factor will work<BR>&gt;&nbsp; for the state.&nbsp; 1. Most users will not be very sophisticated.&nbsp; This is<BR>&gt;&nbsp; useful for monitoring Joe average.&nbsp; How many people will actually use<BR>&gt;&nbsp; cryotography, let alone cryptographic messages sophisticated enough to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; defeat the vast resources of the state.<BR><BR>Actually, I contend that this is a misconception.&nbsp; Encryption can be<BR>built into communications products so that it is transparent to the user.<BR>We've already begun to see this, and in 3000+ years it could be as<BR>trivial as breathing.<BR><BR>Meanwhile, it's *always* easier for the user of encryption to add one<BR>bit to the length of his key than it is for the state to double the computing<BR>power it has available to apply to the problem.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; 2.&nbsp; The act of sending encrypted<BR>&gt;&nbsp; messages may, itself, be a crime.&nbsp; "What are you hiding citizen? Only<BR>&gt;&nbsp; someone with something to hide needs encryption."&nbsp; 3, nonsensical messages<BR>&gt;&nbsp; may them self raise a flag.&nbsp; "This source is continously sending nonsense,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; investigate more thoroughly".&nbsp; Electronic monitoring will only be a part of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the system.<BR><BR>Those are both legitimate concerns, and have more to do with social<BR>and legal structure than with cryptology.<BR><BR>(Actually, I've always thought that it was interesting that SolSec openly<BR>monitored people's *behavior*, but not their *communications*.&nbsp; No doubt<BR>that's part of the program. . .)<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 18:43:51 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: calling Jesse<BR><BR>Gordon Horne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;They look good. And perp decks - a true believer! 8^)<BR><BR>no not a true believer, but a believer in the fact that both types will<BR>be in wide use.&nbsp; I expect that airplane style will be most common under<BR>1000Tons, and perp decks most common above 1000Tons.&nbsp; This ship was<BR>designed back during the parrallel/perp deck flamewar just to see if I<BR>could get a usable subbie with perp decks.<BR><BR>&gt;but Poser figures won't do you any good w/o Poser.<BR><BR>Bryce says it can open them, and I have a totorial to show how to work<BR>with them.<BR><BR><BR>Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>&gt;Heehee, all you have to do for that is to get your hands dirty and<BR>start<BR>&gt;working with this stuff.<BR><BR>I have been doing 3D modeling for years, but now I am trying to finish<BR>them so they lock like something other than mechanical drawings<BR><BR>&gt;Welcome to the short list of TML'ers that are working with 3D!!!<BR><BR>Thank you<BR><BR>&gt;Another spouse or girlfriend mad at me.&nbsp; Excellent!&nbsp; :D<BR><BR>No such luck, and now maybe no such luck on my part.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:03:32 -0500<BR>From: "James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 2:35 AM<BR>Subject: Book Reviews<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The only good way to kill time on airplanes is to read books. On my latest<BR>&gt; trip, I managed to read a book or two which people on the TML might find<BR>&gt; interesting.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; First, "Ice Station," by Matt Reilly. This book sounded like a good<BR>&gt; Traveller scenario. An American scientific team finds a spaceship in the<BR>&gt; Antarctic ice. Bad guys from other countries try to take it away. Lots of<BR>&gt; bullets fly. It certainly sounded promising.<BR>How old was that book?&nbsp; Sounds like the movie Ice Station Zebra.<BR><BR>Jim Fleming<BR>blackjack@pil.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:03:33 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:02:41 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA90570;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:01:06 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:00:53 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA90496<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:00:53 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:00:53 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011080100.UAA90496@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 8 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3269<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Admirals in the Spinward Marches (Was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: Controlling information <BR>Re: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR>Re: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR>Re: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR>Re: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>Re: Movies<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Subject: Controlling information (Was: Movies)<BR>Re: political correctness<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Re: calling Jesse<BR>Re: calling Jesse<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Memories / Amnesia Scenario<BR>Re: political correctness<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 02:06:26 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Admirals in the Spinward Marches (Was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;7&nbsp;&nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp; &nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0 (referred to as a Vice Admiral)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This is probably an error in canon (gasp!) where Rear and Vice were switched.<BR>&gt;Santanocheev should have been referred to as a Vice Admiral prior to his<BR>&gt;promotion to Sector Admiral, and Elphinstone should be a Rear Admiral.<BR><BR>I don't think so. If you assume that rear and vice admiral are ranks above<BR>commodore and below Fleet Admiral (which I'm perfectly aware is contrary to the<BR>character generation system), then both Santanocheev and Elphinstone are quite<BR>well matched for the job they are said to have. A rear admiral would seem quite<BR>suitable for OIC Naval Intelligence for a subsector and a vice admiral is quite<BR>suitable for commanding a BatRon supported by several CruRons (essentially a<BR>Battle Group: smaller than a full fleet but more than a single BatRon).<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt;Note that the real-world ranks, in increasing seniority, are as follows:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Commodore<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rear Admiral<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vice Admiral<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Admiral<BR><BR>Unfortunately neither rear, vice, or just plain admiral are IN ranks according<BR>to the character generation system. I happen to think this is a mistake, but<BR>that's the way it is.<BR><BR>&gt;Hey, Elphinstone was the senior Rear Admiral, maybe Norris promoted Elphinstone<BR>&gt;when he took over the fleets with the Warrant? This allows him to be VADM when<BR>&gt;chasing down those pesky Vargr, and thus saves a portion of the TNS reports as<BR>&gt;canon.<BR><BR>I believe the answer is much simpler: The admirals in FFW is just a small<BR>selection of those serving in Corridor and the Domain of Deneb. Remember, the<BR>Marches alone has ten regular and ten (possibly nine) colonial subsector fleets.<BR>That's 19-20 fleet admirals to start with, before we even get down to<BR>Elphinstone's level (battle groups). Those 20 admirals actually fit in between<BR>Santanocheev and Elphinstone.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:27:02 -0800<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Controlling information <BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; TNE Regency Sourcebook, MT Rebellion Sourcebook, and a bunch of other<BR>&gt; sources make note of the fact that the Xboat system was first and foremost<BR>&gt; a means of communication exchange.&nbsp; It was also a means of communication<BR>&gt; control, hence why X-boats were J-4 and not J-6.&nbsp; To paraphrase Dune: He<BR>&gt; who control the information, controls the Imperium.&nbsp; The X-boat network,<BR>&gt; even though it tied together all the worlds, also permitted the 3I to<BR>&gt; control the information flow.<BR><BR>As someone, maybe it's LKW, is somewhat fond of remarking on occasion, if<BR>something is mentioned in published Traveller material it just means that<BR>it's one way that things happen, but not necessarily the only way. So X-boat<BR>networks exist. I have never seen anything which says that commercial X-boat<BR>networks *don't* exist, so the possibility is left open. You should probably<BR>have the Imperial X-boat networks in YTU, but you can certainly have others<BR>if you want to.<BR><BR>Actually, the investment required for an X-boat network is probably not<BR>really that big. I recently read an article about the cost of the 3G cell<BR>phone infrastructure which said that wireless companies are going to spend<BR>over $300 billion over the next few years for the 3G infrastructure in<BR>Europe alone. You can get a good number of X-boats and tenders for just the<BR>cost of that investment alone. Maybe enough to cover a subsector?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:23:22 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: [BITS] More Dragonmeet 2000 info<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Other Rob wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; And the flyer mentions 'free stuff for every attendee',<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; but I don't know what that is.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;I think this will be a Pokemon Master Challenge Deck.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; ;-)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Nah, there's *No Pokemon* at Dragonmeet 2000. Did I forget to mention it?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Actually, I do wonder what the organisers will do if someone started<BR>&gt;&gt; playing it in the open gaming area...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Dom<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Use of a flamethrower or plasma gun seems reasonable....<BR><BR>"I choose... FGMP-15!!"<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:39:35 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 1:03 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 2:35 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Book Reviews<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The only good way to kill time on airplanes is to read books. On my<BR>latest<BR>&gt; &gt; trip, I managed to read a book or two which people on the TML might<BR>find<BR>&gt; &gt; interesting.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; First, "Ice Station," by Matt Reilly. This book sounded like a good<BR>&gt; &gt; Traveller scenario. An American scientific team finds a spaceship in<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt; Antarctic ice. Bad guys from other countries try to take it away.<BR>Lots of<BR>&gt; &gt; bullets fly. It certainly sounded promising.<BR>&gt; How old was that book?&nbsp; Sounds like the movie Ice Station Zebra.<BR><BR>Nah, Ice Station Zebra was written by Alistair MacLean, and has very<BR>little in the way of 'Sci-Fi' in it. More a precursor to the Tom Clancy<BR>Techno-thriller genre.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:48:35 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>Charles McKnight wrote:<BR>&gt; Has Clarke ever returned from Sri Lanka?&nbsp; (Last place I heard he was <BR>hanging out).<BR><BR>Arthur Clarke has lived in Sri Lanka since 1956 (or thereabouts) and presumbaly still does.&nbsp; I doubt he ever plans to live anywhere else (except, perhaps, the moon, but I'd imagine he knows he's too frail to hold onto that dream any more).<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:13:29 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR><BR>On Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:18:30 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>Erickson) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;In either case, keep in mind that businesses (and privte citizens) have<BR>&gt;used codes &amp; ciphers for *centuries*. It won't be that different in the<BR>&gt;future unless either a practical "universal codebreaker" is found, or<BR>&gt;(as seems likely) a practical "unbreakable code" is found.<BR><BR>Why would the One Time Pad (OTP) not be used in this context - I believe<BR>that it is considered unbreakable now.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:25:26 -0800<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Why would the One Time Pad (OTP) not be used in this context - I believe<BR>&gt; that it is considered unbreakable now.<BR><BR>The problem with an OTP system is that of "key distribution." It's hard to<BR>manage the process of getting all of those OTPs to the people who need them,<BR>and the security of the OTP while in transit can be tricky.<BR><BR>The modern solution to this is "public key cryptography," in which anyone<BR>can send you a message (using the public key), but only you can read the<BR>message (using the corresponding private key).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 21:28:42 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/7/00 9:26:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>martin@ksarul.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; The problem with an OTP system is that of "key distribution." It's hard to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; manage the process of getting all of those OTPs to the people who need <BR>them,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; and the security of the OTP while in transit can be tricky.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; The modern solution to this is "public key cryptography," in which anyone<BR>&gt;&nbsp; can send you a message (using the public key), but only you can read the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; message (using the corresponding private key).<BR><BR>The problem with that being, of course, that public-key rests on the<BR>assumption that certain mathematical problems are in fact too hard to do.<BR>That assumption seems to be true but hasn't been proven, so some break-<BR>through in mathematical theory (or something odd like quantum computing)<BR>may cause the scheme to fail.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 21:34:39 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR><BR>James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; - ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt;&nbsp; From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&lt; snippage&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; First, "Ice Station," by Matt Reilly. This book sounded like a good<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Traveller scenario. An American scientific team finds a spaceship in the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Antarctic ice. Bad guys from other countries try to take it away. Lots of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; bullets fly. It certainly sounded promising.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; How old was that book?&nbsp; Sounds like the movie Ice Station Zebra.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>Ice Station Zebra was based on the book by Alistair McLean. (Better than the <BR>movie, as usual) As a matter of fact, a good many of his books would make <BR>decent fodder for Traveller adventures.&nbsp; File off the names and set them on <BR>remote iceballs and rockballs instead of somewhere in the Arctic, and most of <BR>the work's already done for you.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:31:17 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Movies<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Just a thought:&nbsp; the&nbsp; 3I&nbsp; wouldn't&nbsp; but&nbsp; many&nbsp; local&nbsp; (planetary)<BR>&gt;&gt; governments would.&nbsp; I can see a mega proxy-server&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; gateway<BR>&gt;&gt; between the local planetary net and the X-boat&nbsp; system.&nbsp; Such&nbsp; an<BR>&gt;&gt; installation would be run by&nbsp; the&nbsp; local&nbsp; equivalent&nbsp; of&nbsp; a&nbsp; data<BR>&gt;&gt; customs &amp; excise ... their resources based on law level (which in<BR>&gt;&gt; the normal rules is a roll against police 'harrassment'&nbsp; anyway).<BR>&gt;&gt; Including a scan for 3I mandated data&nbsp; contraband&nbsp; (eg.&nbsp; military<BR>&gt;&gt; intelligence, literature on psionics, etc) would by&nbsp; one&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt;&gt; planetary government's Imperial obligations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm gonna steal that<BR>&gt; for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has FTL comms and<BR>&gt; Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR><BR>Just kerep in mind that it's truly *trivial* for a ship to receive data<BR>via laser from a ground installation, and nor that much harder to go in<BR>the other direction. And very hard to detect either.<BR><BR>Which makes *bypassing* the firewall easy. Rthar like trying to use a<BR>firewall to isolate your corporate network when your employees can hook<BR>up a modem and dial out.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:37:54 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; No one said it would be 100% effective.&nbsp; But a couple of factor will work<BR>&gt; for the state.&nbsp; 1. Most users will not be very sophisticated.&nbsp; This is<BR>&gt; useful for monitoring Joe average.&nbsp; How many people will actually use<BR>&gt; cryotography, let alone cryptographic messages sophisticated enough to<BR>&gt; defeat the vast resources of the state. 2.&nbsp; The act of sending encrypted<BR>&gt; messages may, itself, be a crime.&nbsp; "What are you hiding citizen? Only<BR>&gt; someone with something to hide needs encryption."&nbsp; 3, nonsensical messages<BR>&gt; may them self raise a flag.&nbsp; "This source is continously sending nonsense,<BR>&gt; investigate more thoroughly".&nbsp; Electronic monitoring will only be a part of<BR>&gt; the system.<BR><BR>The problem is that the nonsense could be a hidden message, or it<BR>could be a bad poet. It's not easy telling the difference.<BR><BR>And when you start encoding the message as "random" noise in the data<BR>from a webcam, forget about finding it.<BR><BR>&gt; (non-human) processing.&nbsp; Neural nets trained to hunt for questionable<BR>&gt; message?&nbsp; who knows.&nbsp; Possible SolSec actually monitors a small fraction of<BR>&gt; messages--which ones.&nbsp; Sending 'dangerous messages' safely becomes a crap<BR>&gt; shoot.&nbsp; Care to bet your life against the resources of the state? Hey, you<BR>&gt; could get lucky.<BR><BR>The thing is, the folks who'd *want* to send "dangerous" messages fall<BR>into two categories. Folks who are *already* "revolutionaries" or<BR>"criminals", and thus likely risking their life anyway, and young folks<BR>who don't really believe they can be caught and are doing it for a<BR>thrill. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:01:01 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Subject: Controlling information (Was: Movies)<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Hans writes:<BR>&gt;Jonathan McDermott writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;The X-boat network,<BR>&gt;&gt;even though it tied together all the worlds, also permitted the 3I to<BR>&gt;&gt;control the information flow.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Unfortunately this is one of those ideas that sounds good but fails to make a<BR>&gt;reality (or rather plausibility) check. Canonically there is at least one<BR>&gt;other organization with jump-6 couriers, namely the Imperial Navy, which<BR>weakens<BR>&gt;the usefulness of the Imperiallines setup.<BR><BR>The only way the Imperiallines setup would work is if they had a much more<BR>straight-line flight, via the use of pre-positioned Calibration Points and so<BR>on. And this sort of setup is so expensive that you would only do it for flight<BR>paths between sector - or even domain - capitals, IMHO. The flight path to Mora<BR>could be even more direct if it went across the Rift.<BR><BR>You may need to juggle a few dates in canon (eg. the date Norris *really* knew<BR>about Strephon's assassination), but things should work out.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:26:50 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: political correctness<BR><BR>Kiri, gambare!&nbsp; 8^)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:13:32 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Steven asked:<BR>&gt;Heck, if you have _Striker_ why bother with MT if that goofiness bothers you?<BR><BR>'Cause I wanted to use the MT range bands for "to hit" chances. Mebbee I'll just<BR>give up and use Striker's three bands - Effective, Long, Extreme.<BR><BR>&gt;FWIW, I've just looked up the ARL in MT for the first time (what, there's<BR>&gt;life after CT?!), and I'm not sure whether to be confused or ... perturbed?<BR>&gt; i) why do the chemical energy rounds (some, but not all!) attenuate?<BR><BR>Which ones are "chemical energy rounds"?<BR><BR>&gt;ii) why does the (10mm) ARL have _way_ better Pen than a (10mm) snubbie,<BR>&gt;when presumably the latters round was optimized for HEAP pen at that<BR>&gt;projectile diameter?<BR><BR>Higher velocity. (I _knew_ I should have included the speed when quoting stats<BR>from the original article!)<BR><BR>&gt;iii) why does the low velocity (yeah, I know, it's a GyroJet clone...)<BR>&gt;(10mm) KEAP round of the ARL have similar Pen to the (20/9mm) DS round<BR>&gt;from a (high Recoil) LAG?!<BR><BR>Do you mean "why does the low _recoil_ KEAP round..."? The round is high<BR>velocity, unless I'm completely mis-remembering.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:20:26 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: calling Jesse<BR><BR>Thanks for the info on Poser. B&amp;N had 5 copies left of 3D World, but<BR>they were located in the science magizine section instead of the<BR>computer mag section.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:30:41 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: calling Jesse<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;but Poser figures won't do you any good w/o Poser.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Bryce says it can open them, and I have a totorial to show how to work<BR>&gt;with them.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>You can import them and texture them in Bryce (i forget how to do the <BR>first without Poser) but you cannot pose them in Bryce, which greatly <BR>reduces their utility. Grab one of the free copies of Poser 3.0 <BR>available in the trade magazines.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:54:33 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>on 11/7/00 3:47 PM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:<BR><BR>Now this is an interesting thread...<BR><BR>&gt; Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; No one said it would be 100% effective.&nbsp; But a couple of factor will work<BR>&gt;&gt; for the state.&nbsp; 1. Most users will not be very sophisticated.&nbsp; This is<BR>&gt;&gt; useful for monitoring Joe average.&nbsp; How many people will actually use<BR>&gt;&gt; cryotography, let alone cryptographic messages sophisticated enough to<BR>&gt;&gt; defeat the vast resources of the state.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes, but the examples I posted illustrate that it could be extremely<BR>&gt; difficult to _tell_ that encrypted messages are being sent.<BR><BR>Agreed.&nbsp; Wide. scale monitoring will not be effective alone.&nbsp; But it could<BR>catch people<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The other problem, and it's mostly a MTU thing (As well as a OTU thing,<BR>&gt; at least per the CT Solomani manual), is that the Solomani Confederation<BR>&gt; _isn't_ this monster, rigid, Orwellian totalitarian state. SolSec is but<BR>&gt; one branch of the Solomani ruling tripartite, and is theoretically only<BR>&gt; the others equal in power.<BR><BR>True.&nbsp; And the SolCon is not monolithic.&nbsp; Certain planets may be more or<BR>less 'Orwellian'.&nbsp; I have in mind a particular world.&nbsp; My players read this<BR>list, so I won't go in to details.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:01:05 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>on 11/7/00 4:41 PM, JFZeigler@aol.com at JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Actually, I contend that this is a misconception.&nbsp; Encryption can be<BR>&gt; built into communications products so that it is transparent to the user.<BR>&gt; We've already begun to see this, and in 3000+ years it could be as<BR>&gt; trivial as breathing.<BR><BR>Only if the government allows it.&nbsp; And if encryption is built in, in a<BR>restrictive government, expect the security apparatus to have the backdoor<BR>keys.&nbsp; Also, many encrypted systems are not as secure as one might think.<BR>CDMA cell phones utilized encrypted signals.&nbsp; As a former employee of a CDMA<BR>technology vendor, I know the encryption schema.&nbsp; Think the government<BR>doesn't have the same info?<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Meanwhile, it's *always* easier for the user of encryption to add one<BR>&gt; bit to the length of his key than it is for the state to double the computing<BR>&gt; power it has available to apply to the problem.<BR><BR>Well, that assumes that adding a bit actually does double the computing<BR>requirements to decrypt.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Those are both legitimate concerns, and have more to do with social<BR>&gt; and legal structure than with cryptology.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (Actually, I've always thought that it was interesting that SolSec openly<BR>&gt; monitored people's *behavior*, but not their *communications*.&nbsp; No doubt<BR>&gt; that's part of the program. . .)<BR><BR>Is that canon?&nbsp; I assumed that both would be true.&nbsp; It seems that even in<BR>open societies, governments monitor communications--hence things like<BR>echelon and the NSA monitoring facility in Yakima Washington, which experts<BR>contend could only be used to monitor US communication satellites.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:14:48 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>on 11/7/00 6:37 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The problem is that the nonsense could be a hidden message, or it<BR>&gt; could be a bad poet. It's not easy telling the difference.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And when you start encoding the message as "random" noise in the data<BR>&gt; from a webcam, forget about finding it.<BR><BR>Unless you know to look there.<BR><BR>example:&nbsp; Clever anti-government type uses sophisticated techniques to pass<BR>info to other cell members.&nbsp; Random monitoring picks up an open call<BR><BR>"I'm worried about Tim.&nbsp; His friends scare me.&nbsp; He's always sending them<BR>these weird messages on our computer, and when I ask him about it, he gets<BR>all defensive".<BR><BR>Assets are devoted to analyzing "Tim's" messages.&nbsp; Naturally, he is placed<BR>under surveillance as well.&nbsp; Given time, a message is found embedded in a<BR>transmission. Tim is using a technique from the net that is know by the<BR>cryptographic experts in the government.&nbsp; Naturally, the source is milked<BR>for as long as possible before arrests are made.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The thing is, the folks who'd *want* to send "dangerous" messages fall<BR>&gt; into two categories. Folks who are *already* "revolutionaries" or<BR>&gt; "criminals", and thus likely risking their life anyway, and young folks<BR>&gt; who don't really believe they can be caught and are doing it for a<BR>&gt; thrill. <BR><BR>Most will believe that they won't be caught, or are just too clever to be<BR>caught by dull policemen.&nbsp; But a few will be caught. And then they will have<BR>to face as a reality what was just an unimagined consequence.&nbsp; They will<BR>talk.&nbsp; They will betray their friends. They will realize the error of their<BR>ways.<BR><BR>Then they can be tried or dissapeared, as required.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:19:24 EST<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Bummer.&nbsp; Off-hand, does anyone know if ANY of the other "Golden Age" (by <BR>&gt;&gt; which I mean roughly pre-WWII) SF authors are left?&nbsp; (Arthur Clarke, being <BR>1) <BR>&gt;&gt; British and 2) slightly too young, doesn't count, btw).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jack Williamson is still around, I believe.&nbsp; I can't think of anyone else.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Andre Norton (started writing circa 1932) is still around, last I checked, <BR>but even the next wave of authors (the 50's &amp; 60's crowd) is thinning, and <BR>the 70's-80's bunch are getting to be "old-timers."&nbsp; Scary that.<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:27:09 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/8/00 12:02:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Only if the government allows it.&nbsp; And if encryption is built in, in a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; restrictive government, expect the security apparatus to have the backdoor<BR>&gt;&nbsp; keys.&nbsp; Also, many encrypted systems are not as secure as one might think.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; CDMA cell phones utilized encrypted signals.&nbsp; As a former employee of a <BR>CDMA<BR>&gt;&nbsp; technology vendor, I know the encryption schema.&nbsp; Think the government<BR>&gt;&nbsp; doesn't have the same info?<BR><BR>As a professional cryptologist, I can be fairly sure that any given adversary<BR>can get that information if he wants it.&nbsp; But the point of good strong crypto<BR>is that it *doesn't matter* whether the adversary knows the algorithm or not.<BR>In fact, when designing the system you assume that the adversary has<BR>the design too, and make sure that he still can't read your mail without<BR>the key.&nbsp; This is, of course, harder than it sounds -- and many people<BR>overestimate their own ability to manage it -- but it can be done.<BR><BR>(Of course, there's the possibility of quantum cryptology, in which it<BR>isn't possible even in principle for anyone to read your mail.&nbsp; As soon<BR>as anyone even begins to eavesdrop, both sides are aware of it.)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Well, that assumes that adding a bit actually does double the computing<BR>&gt;&nbsp; requirements to decrypt.<BR><BR>For a well-designed system, one can prove that it will.&nbsp; I am of course<BR>oversimplifying; there are lots of systems where the complexity of the<BR>decryption problem doesn't follow a simple logarithmic progression with<BR>the length of the key.&nbsp; But the principle still holds -- it's usually quite<BR>easy to make the key so long that no adversary can possibly guess<BR>it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Is that canon?&nbsp; I assumed that both would be true.<BR><BR>Canon says that SolSec keeps dossiers on people, but it doesn't say<BR>anything specifically about monitoring comms.&nbsp; Which doesn't mean<BR>it doesn't happen.&nbsp; It probably just means that people (such as the<BR>GDW authors) don't usually think of SIGINT in space-opera settings.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:05:13 +1000<BR>From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Memories / Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Another scenario had the players waking up with no memories whatsoever in<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; pitch darkness<BR><BR>Strangely enough, back when I used to program I wrote a (text) adventure that<BR>started this way,<BR>based on the TV series "UFO". The player also started in a locked room with no<BR>exit until<BR>they SAID something.<BR><BR>Those of you who know the series might guess what happened next.<BR>Graeme<BR>_____________________________________________________________<BR>Madonna (date unknown): Solomani religious icon and philosopher.<BR>Most famous quote, on Phenomenology :<BR>"We are living in a material world, and I am a material girl."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Library Data<BR><BR><BR><BR>######################################################################<BR>Attention: <BR>This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the <BR>intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. <BR>Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.<BR>######################################################################<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 22:31:10 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: political correctness<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Date: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 7:21 PM<BR>Subject: Re: political correctness<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Kiri, gambare!&nbsp; 8^)<BR>&gt;<BR>arigatou!<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thou Art God...<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>sacred somewhere.&nbsp; There's a deity out there who digs it.&nbsp; You can respect<BR>and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>impractical.&nbsp; It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- Jack Darkhand<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3269<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xa02.mx.aol.com (rly-xa02.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.71]) by air-xa03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 01:32:57 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xa02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 01:32:43 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA17759;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:32:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:31:44 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA17708<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:31:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:31:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011080631.BAA17708@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3269<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 8 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3270<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>RE: Movies<BR>RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR>RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>RE: Movies<BR>RE: Planetary Firewalls and FTL comms ( Movies)<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Re: political correctness<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Controlling information<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR>Re: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 22:39:25 -0800<BR>From: Bill &lt;beast@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt;on 11/7/00 3:47 PM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Now this is an interesting thread...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; No one said it would be 100% effective.&nbsp; But a couple of factor will work<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; for the state.&nbsp; 1. Most users will not be very sophisticated.&nbsp; This is<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; useful for monitoring Joe average.&nbsp; How many people will actually use<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; cryotography, let alone cryptographic messages sophisticated enough to<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; defeat the vast resources of the state.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Yes, but the examples I posted illustrate that it could be extremely<BR>&gt;&gt; difficult to _tell_ that encrypted messages are being sent.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Agreed.&nbsp; Wide. scale monitoring will not be effective alone.&nbsp; But it could<BR>&gt;catch people<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The other problem, and it's mostly a MTU thing (As well as a OTU thing,<BR>&gt;&gt; at least per the CT Solomani manual), is that the Solomani Confederation<BR>&gt;&gt; _isn't_ this monster, rigid, Orwellian totalitarian state. SolSec is but<BR>&gt;&gt; one branch of the Solomani ruling tripartite, and is theoretically only<BR>&gt;&gt; the others equal in power.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;True.&nbsp; And the SolCon is not monolithic.&nbsp; Certain planets may be more or<BR>&gt;less 'Orwellian'.&nbsp; I have in mind a particular world.&nbsp; My players read this<BR>&gt;list, so I won't go in to details.<BR><BR><BR>;PppPPpPPpPP~<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:58:10 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Whether the 3I/IRIS would *actually* tap or tamper with the X-boat net =<BR>&gt; &gt;is another matter. It's hard to imagine they wouldn't, but then <BR>&gt; again if word got out, it would be very damaging.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; And word is expected to get out how? :)<BR><BR>Echelon was supposed to be secret. <BR><BR>And we don't have psionics.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:10:40 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>Charles McKnight wrote :<BR>&gt; Has Clarke ever returned from Sri Lanka?<BR>&gt; (Last place I heard he was&nbsp; hanging out).<BR><BR>No, he's still in Sri Lanka, an accquaintance spoke to him a short time ago<BR><BR>If he is still up to it, he will speaking via satellite at the next NZ SF<BR>Convention in 2001.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:41:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>I wondered why he held the copyrights ...<BR><BR>- --- Gary Miles &lt;garyglennmiles@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;- --- Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&lt;&lt;An adventure in a ice-bound research station in which you can<BR>&gt; trust<BR>&gt; &gt;absolutely nobody has great gaming potential.&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;"The Thing?"<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Another Must Read (AMR): If you want a good hard-SF military<BR>&gt; adventure<BR>&gt; &gt;(just ripe for Traveller), try Ian Douglas' Heritage Trilogy (Semper<BR>&gt; &gt;Mars, Luna Marine, Europa Strike).&nbsp; As you can tell from the titles,<BR>&gt; &gt;these deal with Marines -- the first book has them slugging it out<BR>&gt; with<BR>&gt; &gt;the bad guys (UN forces) on Mars, the second has them slugging it<BR>&gt; out<BR>&gt; &gt;with the bad guys (UN forces) on the Moon, and the third book has<BR>&gt; them<BR>&gt; &gt;slugging it out with the bad guys (Chinese [thought I was going to<BR>&gt; say<BR>&gt; &gt;UN forces, didn't you?]) on Jupiter's moon, Europa.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;These books are very quick reads, and there is enough detail to<BR>&gt; flesh<BR>&gt; &gt;out most mid-tech (Traveller TL 9 to 11) societies.&nbsp; The author,<BR>&gt; much<BR>&gt; &gt;like Tom Clancy, actually tries to describe how the technology<BR>&gt; &gt;functions, so these books might better be classified as Speculative<BR>&gt; &gt;Fiction Techno Thrillers.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=====<BR>&gt; &gt;Gerry Harris<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Would the series get more readers from the TML if we reveal that "Ian<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Douglas" is really William H. Keith?&nbsp; Because he is...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Gary<BR>&gt;<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at<BR>&gt; http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>&gt; http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Thousands of Stores.&nbsp; Millions of Products.&nbsp; All in one Place.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 08:45:48 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR>&gt; --<BR><BR>Geez, I really liked the Krishna books. :(<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 08:47:05 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Bummer.&nbsp; Off-hand, does anyone know if ANY of the other <BR>&gt; "Golden Age" (by which I mean roughly pre-WWII) SF authors <BR>&gt; are left?&nbsp; (Arthur Clarke, being 1) British and 2) slightly <BR>&gt; too young, doesn't count, btw).<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Slightly too young is fair enough, but being British strike you out?!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:18:03 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 08 November 2000 02:31<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Movies<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Just a thought:&nbsp; the&nbsp; 3I&nbsp; wouldn't&nbsp; but&nbsp; many&nbsp; local&nbsp; (planetary)<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; governments would.&nbsp; I can see a mega proxy-server&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; gateway<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; between the local planetary net and the X-boat&nbsp; system.&nbsp; Such&nbsp; an<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; installation would be run by&nbsp; the&nbsp; local&nbsp; equivalent&nbsp; of&nbsp; a&nbsp; data<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; customs &amp; excise ... their resources based on law level (which in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; the normal rules is a roll against police 'harrassment'&nbsp; anyway).<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Including a scan for 3I mandated data&nbsp; contraband&nbsp; (eg.&nbsp; military<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; intelligence, literature on psionics, etc) would by&nbsp; one&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; planetary government's Imperial obligations.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm <BR>&gt; gonna steal that<BR>&gt; &gt; for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has <BR>&gt; FTL comms and<BR>&gt; &gt; Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just kerep in mind that it's truly *trivial* for a ship to <BR>&gt; receive data<BR>&gt; via laser from a ground installation, and nor that much <BR>&gt; harder to go in<BR>&gt; the other direction. And very hard to detect either.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Which makes *bypassing* the firewall easy. Rthar like trying to use a<BR>&gt; firewall to isolate your corporate network when your <BR>&gt; employees can hook<BR>&gt; up a modem and dial out.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:21:11 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Planetary Firewalls and FTL comms ( Movies)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm <BR>&gt; gonna steal that<BR>&gt; &gt; for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has <BR>&gt; FTL comms and<BR>&gt; &gt; Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just keep in mind that it's truly *trivial* for a ship to <BR>&gt; receive data<BR>&gt; via laser from a ground installation, and nor that much <BR>&gt; harder to go in<BR>&gt; the other direction. And very hard to detect either.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Which makes *bypassing* the firewall easy. Rthar like trying to use a<BR>&gt; firewall to isolate your corporate network when your <BR>&gt; employees can hook<BR>&gt; up a modem and dial out.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>True, but in this non-Traveller universe one of the major problems is going<BR>to be interstellar hackers and possibly rogue AIs...haven't got the details<BR>sorted yet. <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:44:24 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote :-<BR>&gt; No world will have such an atmosphere for a geologically significant<BR>&gt; timespan. But I can *easily* see it happening due to porrly handled (or<BR>&gt; accidental!) "terraforming".<BR>Fair enough ; the scenario you describe is quite reasonable, and could<BR>potentially last for years (using numbers from:-<BR>http://www.foresight.org/NanoRev/Ecophagy.html<BR>for BOTE calcs - if the combustion rate was low enough.<BR><BR>&gt; Of course, at those levels the players may have other things to worry<BR>&gt; about. Like the fact that their *bodies* are flammable...<BR>&gt; <BR>Exactly.<BR><BR>I wrote :-<BR>&gt; At typical Traveller TLs, hyperbaric environments are rare.<BR>I thought initially that gravitics would radically affect underwater and<BR>deep underground construction, making shirtsleeve environments possible<BR>almost anywhere.<BR><BR>On reflection, the environmental effects of neutralising the weight of<BR>large columns of water or rock could be profound. But that's another<BR>topic.<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:01:07 -0000 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Robert O'Connor [mailto:robocon@ozemail.com.au]<BR><BR>&gt; I wrote :-<BR>&gt; &gt; At typical Traveller TLs, hyperbaric environments are rare.<BR>&gt; I thought initially that gravitics would radically affect <BR>&gt; underwater and<BR>&gt; deep underground construction, making shirtsleeve <BR>&gt; environments possible<BR>&gt; almost anywhere.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On reflection, the environmental effects of neutralising the weight of<BR>&gt; large columns of water or rock could be profound. But that's another<BR>&gt; topic.<BR><BR>I'm probably overlooking something obvious, but surely with rock and<BR>other solid materials the effect of their weight would be transmitted<BR>through the surrounding material and thus not dramatically increase the<BR>pressure in a cavity. A liquid is always trying to fill the space, so it<BR>exerts a pressure, but a solid is supported by the surrounding material<BR>and it's downwards force will go around the cavity, much as in an arch<BR>or dome.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 22:51:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: political correctness<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;That may be what it means when you say it, but 90% of the time political<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;correctness that I've encountered is good old prissiness, and some of the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;most politically correct people I've ever met have no trouble being rude<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;and insulting and nasty when it comes to people who don't share their<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;opinions.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;snip feminist example&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; I find it interesting that you identified the people who were harassing me<BR>&gt; about my taste for porn and my thoughts on the issue as feminist; I don't<BR>&gt; think of them as such.&nbsp; I think of feminism as being a set of beliefs<BR>&gt; according to which more choices for women (and men, for that matter) are<BR>&gt; good-- and that doesn't necessarily rule out the notion that members of<BR>&gt; either gender might freely choose to take their clothes off in front of a<BR>&gt; camera for money.<BR><BR>You've got to realize that for most men, (and a lot of non-involved<BR>women!) the label "feminist" is associated with the type of woman who<BR>makes the news or otherwise intrudes on their life while at the same<BR>time (loudly) proclaiming herself to be a "feminist". <BR><BR>Thus to "outsiders" the label "feminist" is associated with the<BR>*extremists* and the nutcases.<BR><BR>The same sort thing happens with names like "fundamentalist" and even<BR>"Christian". To those not part of the group, the only people they see<BR>*bearing the label* are not typical of the group. <BR><BR>&gt; I think I'm far more "feminist" than they are, being as how I don't<BR>&gt; believe women need special protection from scary ideas.<BR><BR>But the "I'm a feminist!!!" people *do* believe that. Or at least try<BR>to sell the idea.<BR><BR>And this phenomenon can be a handy tool for a GM. <BR><BR>Just expose the players to news items involving lots of self-proclaimed<BR>&lt;fitb&gt;. And have them have a few unpleasant encounters with more such<BR>people (street corner preachers or loudmouths making nasty comments in<BR>public). <BR><BR>If the players actually have their characters do any research, they'll<BR>find out that these folks aren't *typical* of &lt;fitb&gt;, merely highly<BR>visible. <BR><BR>But the odds of players actually doing that are low. And thus you can<BR>set them up to make a big mistake and regret it. <BR><BR>For that matter, running some white, middle class players thru a visit<BR>to a planet where whites are an underclass, and a not well liked one,<BR>might be interesting as well. <BR><BR>For "guidelines" consider situations such as "educated black foreigner<BR>in Deep South pre-Civil Rights", "Korean in Japan", etc. Note that I<BR>merely picked examples I know of, I'm sure there are lots of others.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:08:25 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; on 11/7/00 3:47 PM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now this is an interesting thread...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; No one said it would be 100% effective.&nbsp; But a couple of factor will work<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; for the state.&nbsp; 1. Most users will not be very sophisticated.&nbsp; This is<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; useful for monitoring Joe average.&nbsp; How many people will actually use<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; cryotography, let alone cryptographic messages sophisticated enough to<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; defeat the vast resources of the state.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Yes, but the examples I posted illustrate that it could be extremely<BR>&gt;&gt; difficult to _tell_ that encrypted messages are being sent.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Agreed.&nbsp; Wide. scale monitoring will not be effective alone.&nbsp; But it could<BR>&gt; catch people<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; The other problem, and it's mostly a MTU thing (As well as a OTU thing,<BR>&gt;&gt; at least per the CT Solomani manual), is that the Solomani Confederation<BR>&gt;&gt; _isn't_ this monster, rigid, Orwellian totalitarian state. SolSec is but<BR>&gt;&gt; one branch of the Solomani ruling tripartite, and is theoretically only<BR>&gt;&gt; the others equal in power.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; True.&nbsp; And the SolCon is not monolithic.&nbsp; Certain planets may be more or<BR>&gt; less 'Orwellian'.&nbsp; I have in mind a particular world.&nbsp; My players read this<BR>&gt; list, so I won't go in to details.<BR><BR>There must be a *huge* temptation to name a planet "Oceania" and see if<BR>the players figure it out before it's too late. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:10:58 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; on 11/7/00 6:37 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The problem is that the nonsense could be a hidden message, or it<BR>&gt;&gt; could be a bad poet. It's not easy telling the difference.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; And when you start encoding the message as "random" noise in the data<BR>&gt;&gt; from a webcam, forget about finding it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Unless you know to look there.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; example:&nbsp; Clever anti-government type uses sophisticated techniques to pass<BR>&gt; info to other cell members.&nbsp; Random monitoring picks up an open call<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I'm worried about Tim.&nbsp; His friends scare me.&nbsp; He's always sending them<BR>&gt; these weird messages on our computer, and when I ask him about it, he gets<BR>&gt; all defensive".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Assets are devoted to analyzing "Tim's" messages.&nbsp; Naturally, he is placed<BR>&gt; under surveillance as well.&nbsp; Given time, a message is found embedded in a<BR>&gt; transmission. Tim is using a technique from the net that is know by the<BR>&gt; cryptographic experts in the government.&nbsp; Naturally, the source is milked<BR>&gt; for as long as possible before arrests are made.<BR><BR>And Tim is obviously a rank amateur. You don't let your<BR>girlfriend/boyfriend see such activities unless you are willing to bet<BR>your life on their reliability. <BR><BR>Hell "closeted" gays and pagans re more careful than *that*!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The thing is, the folks who'd *want* to send "dangerous" messages fall<BR>&gt;&gt; into two categories. Folks who are *already* "revolutionaries" or<BR>&gt;&gt; "criminals", and thus likely risking their life anyway, and young folks<BR>&gt;&gt; who don't really believe they can be caught and are doing it for a<BR>&gt;&gt; thrill. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Most will believe that they won't be caught, or are just too clever to be<BR>&gt; caught by dull policemen.&nbsp; But a few will be caught. And then they will have<BR>&gt; to face as a reality what was just an unimagined consequence.&nbsp; They will<BR>&gt; talk.&nbsp; They will betray their friends. They will realize the error of their<BR>&gt; ways.<BR><BR>And that's why the "cell" structure was invented. You can betray the<BR>rest of your cell, but you can't betray anybody else. <BR><BR>But yes, the "They'll never catch me" types will get caught regularly. <BR><BR>It's the "they'll eventually catch me, but I'm going to do my best to<BR>delay it" ones that are the danger.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:29:57 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; As a professional cryptologist, I can be fairly sure that any given adversary<BR>&gt; can get that information if he wants it.&nbsp; But the point of good strong crypto<BR>&gt; is that it *doesn't matter* whether the adversary knows the algorithm or not.<BR>&gt; In fact, when designing the system you assume that the adversary has<BR>&gt; the design too, and make sure that he still can't read your mail without<BR>&gt; the key.&nbsp; This is, of course, harder than it sounds -- and many people<BR>&gt; overestimate their own ability to manage it -- but it can be done.<BR><BR>As an amatuer who used to exchange encrypted messages on a BBS in the<BR>early to mid 80s, I can testify to *that*. We had folks break the<BR>cipher (and we added them to the group, since this was just for fun). <BR><BR>But we got rather shocked when a "major" improvement in the system took<BR>one "adversary" a matter of *hours* to crack. <BR><BR>&gt; (Of course, there's the possibility of quantum cryptology, in which it<BR>&gt; isn't possible even in principle for anyone to read your mail.&nbsp; As soon<BR>&gt; as anyone even begins to eavesdrop, both sides are aware of it.)<BR><BR>I've had fun for *decades* playing with the social consequences of a<BR>"quantum" system where it's not *possible* to have a three way<BR>connection. Nor to trace an active one. <BR><BR>As long as the gizmo is small and relatively cheap, it pretty much<BR>*kills* a large branch of intelligence work. And makes life for the<BR>intel community and the police *really* difficult. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Well, that assumes that adding a bit actually does double the computing<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; requirements to decrypt.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For a well-designed system, one can prove that it will.&nbsp; I am of course<BR>&gt; oversimplifying; there are lots of systems where the complexity of the<BR>&gt; decryption problem doesn't follow a simple logarithmic progression with<BR>&gt; the length of the key.&nbsp; But the principle still holds -- it's usually quite<BR>&gt; easy to make the key so long that no adversary can possibly guess<BR>&gt; it.<BR><BR>And with data storage capacity going up, key distribution for "one-time<BR>pad" type systems gets easier as well. <BR><BR>For example, a writable CD can hold a key sufficient for 650 meg of<BR>traffic. And if your software is set to "erase" key bits as they are<BR>used, recovering old traffic isn't possible even if you and your<BR>equipment are captured. <BR><BR>DVD type technology just makes it worse.<BR><BR>For some types of intel work, I have to wonder if you can make a CD<BR>from cellulose nitrate (they used to make movie film from it). If not,<BR>I'm sure there's some other plastic that will work. <BR><BR>So, a slightly modified CD or DVD drive, with "special" media. At a<BR>keypress, or if the drive is opened improperly, *Whoosh* no more media.<BR><BR>Media that's its own destruct charge. The digital equivalent of flash<BR>paper. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:50:19 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Controlling information<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; TNE Regency Sourcebook, MT Rebellion Sourcebook, and a bunch of other<BR>&gt;&gt; sources make note of the fact that the Xboat system was first and foremost<BR>&gt;&gt; a means of communication exchange.&nbsp; It was also a means of communication<BR>&gt;&gt; control, hence why X-boats were J-4 and not J-6.&nbsp; To paraphrase Dune: He<BR>&gt;&gt; who control the information, controls the Imperium.&nbsp; The X-boat network,<BR>&gt;&gt; even though it tied together all the worlds, also permitted the 3I to<BR>&gt;&gt; control the information flow.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As someone, maybe it's LKW, is somewhat fond of remarking on occasion, if<BR>&gt; something is mentioned in published Traveller material it just means that<BR>&gt; it's one way that things happen, but not necessarily the only way. So X-boat<BR>&gt; networks exist. I have never seen anything which says that commercial X-boat<BR>&gt; networks *don't* exist, so the possibility is left open. You should probably<BR>&gt; have the Imperial X-boat networks in YTU, but you can certainly have others<BR>&gt; if you want to.<BR><BR>"Imperial Express, when it positively, absolutely has to be there next<BR>month!" <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:51:53 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Bummer.&nbsp; Off-hand, does anyone know if ANY of the other "Golden Age" (by <BR>&gt; which I mean roughly pre-WWII) SF authors are left?&nbsp; (Arthur Clarke, being <BR>&gt; 1) British and 2) slightly too young, doesn't count, btw).<BR><BR>I think Jack Williamson is still around, and *he* IS true "Golden Age".<BR><BR>Does Jack Vance go back that far?<BR><BR>Poul Anderson is post WWII, but not by all that much.<BR><BR>Is Fred Pohl still around?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:54:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Has Clarke ever returned from Sri Lanka?&nbsp; (Last place I heard he was <BR>&gt; hanging out).<BR><BR>Why would he bother? He moved there both because he likes the place,<BR>and because of the tax situation. As I understand it, even with the<BR>favorable tax laws the government there has given him, he's one of the<BR>major sources of income for the government!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:57:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:18:30 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>&gt; Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;In either case, keep in mind that businesses (and privte citizens) have<BR>&gt;&gt;used codes &amp; ciphers for *centuries*. It won't be that different in the<BR>&gt;&gt;future unless either a practical "universal codebreaker" is found, or<BR>&gt;&gt;(as seems likely) a practical "unbreakable code" is found.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Why would the One Time Pad (OTP) not be used in this context - I believe<BR>&gt; that it is considered unbreakable now.<BR><BR>The big problem with one time pads is that you have to ship copies of<BR>the "key" (pad) around to all the folks using it. And do so *without*<BR>the "bad guys" being able to make a copy. <BR><BR>That gets *real* inconvenient. <BR><BR>It's one of the reasons public key cryptography has been greeted with<BR>such joy.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:59:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Codes (was: Re: Movies)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In a message dated 11/7/00 9:26:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>&gt; martin@ksarul.com writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The problem with an OTP system is that of "key distribution." It's hard to<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; manage the process of getting all of those OTPs to the people who need <BR>&gt; them,<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; and the security of the OTP while in transit can be tricky.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; The modern solution to this is "public key cryptography," in which anyone<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; can send you a message (using the public key), but only you can read the<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; message (using the corresponding private key).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The problem with that being, of course, that public-key rests on the<BR>&gt; assumption that certain mathematical problems are in fact too hard to do.<BR>&gt; That assumption seems to be true but hasn't been proven, so some break-<BR>&gt; through in mathematical theory (or something odd like quantum computing)<BR>&gt; may cause the scheme to fail.<BR><BR>Actually, that's already happened once. <BR><BR>There was a family of public key ciphers based on something (the<BR>knapsack problem?) that disappeared when a quick solution to that<BR>problem was found. <BR><BR>Current public key ciphers are based on the difficult of factoring<BR>large numbers. If a quick solution to *that* is found, then we'll need<BR>to change thngs again. But as I understand it, there are a *lot* of<BR>"hard" math problems that things could be based on.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3270<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (rly-zd02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.226]) by air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 06:17:25 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 06:17:06 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id GAA40929;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 06:16:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 8 Nov 2000 06:15:58 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA40753<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 06:15:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 06:15:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011081115.GAA40753@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3270<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3271</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 8 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3271<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Virus<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>Re: Memories / Amnesia Scenario<BR>RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>RE: Movies<BR>RE: Movies<BR>RE: Movies<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>RE: EMP bursts<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>Re: Sword Worlds<BR>RE: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>RE: Views<BR>RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>RE: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches (Was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:07:49 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Virus<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; We are required by the licensing agreement not to deal with certain topics.<BR><BR>Can you tell us what they are?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:10:02 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; - ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &lt; snippage&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; First, "Ice Station," by Matt Reilly. This book sounded like a good<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Traveller scenario. An American scientific team finds a spaceship in the<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Antarctic ice. Bad guys from other countries try to take it away. Lots <BR>&gt; of<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; bullets fly. It certainly sounded promising.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; How old was that book?&nbsp; Sounds like the movie Ice Station Zebra.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Ice Station Zebra was based on the book by Alistair McLean. (Better than the <BR>&gt; movie, as usual) As a matter of fact, a good many of his books would make <BR>&gt; decent fodder for Traveller adventures.&nbsp; File off the names and set them on <BR>&gt; remote iceballs and rockballs instead of somewhere in the Arctic, and most <BR>&gt; of the work's already done for you.<BR><BR>"The Guns of Navarone" would work well. A group of commandos sent in to<BR>knock out the meson gun battery that's the backbone of the planetary<BR>defense system. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:14:57 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Memories / Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Another scenario had the players waking up with no memories whatsoever in<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; pitch darkness<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Strangely enough, back when I used to program I wrote a (text)<BR>&gt; adventure that started this way, based on the TV series "UFO". The<BR>&gt; player also started in a locked room with no exit until they SAID<BR>&gt; something.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Those of you who know the series might guess what happened next.<BR><BR>"Welcome Organ Donors!" &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:15:59 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>&lt;fontfamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Helvetica&lt;/param&gt;British SF has been of a =<BR>consistently high standard for the last 100+ years, so the American =<BR>comic-book eras don't count in identifying British authors.<BR><BR>I'm sure this is what he means, by Jingo! :-)<BR><BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Wednesday, November 8, 2000, at 08:47 AM, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;&gt; Rupert Boleyn =<BR>wrote:&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;&gt; Bummer.&nbsp; Off-hand, does anyone know =<BR>if ANY of the other &lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;&gt; "Golden Age" (by which I mean roughly =<BR>pre-WWII) SF authors &lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;&gt; are left?&nbsp; (Arthur Clarke, being 1) =<BR>British and 2) slightly &lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;&gt; too young, doesn't count, =<BR>btw).&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;Slightly too young is fair enough, but =<BR>being British strike you =<BR>out?!&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 04:05:28 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Movies<BR>...<BR>&gt;And we don't have psionics.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Neither do loyal 3I citizens :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:28:30 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm <BR>&gt; &gt; gonna steal that for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if<BR>&gt; &gt; that's OK (it has FTL comms and Cyberdecks....and now Planetary<BR>&gt; &gt; Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Dean<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Imagine what they do in SolCon. Not just planetary firewalls,<BR>&gt; but local sniffers at every major data switch, looking for<BR>&gt; contraband data sent between local users.&nbsp; Just assumed every<BR>&gt; electronic form of communication is monitored.<BR><BR>Just like the new internet law in the UK, except more technically<BR>competant.<BR><BR>(Non-UK FYI: All major ISPs to&nbsp; have&nbsp; government&nbsp; email&nbsp; sniffers<BR>installed,&nbsp; and&nbsp; police&nbsp; have&nbsp; right&nbsp; to&nbsp; demand&nbsp;&nbsp; surrender&nbsp;&nbsp; of<BR>encryption keys ... failure to do so is evidence you&nbsp; are&nbsp; hiding<BR>something: 2 year prison sentence.)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:08:17 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; gonna steal that for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; that's OK (it has FTL comms and Cyberdecks....and now Planetary<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Dean<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Imagine what they do in SolCon. Not just planetary firewalls,<BR>&gt; &gt; but local sniffers at every major data switch, looking for<BR>&gt; &gt; contraband data sent between local users.&nbsp; Just assumed every<BR>&gt; &gt; electronic form of communication is monitored.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just like the new internet law in the UK, except more technically<BR>&gt; competant.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (Non-UK FYI: All major ISPs to&nbsp; have&nbsp; government&nbsp; email&nbsp; sniffers<BR>&gt; installed,&nbsp; and&nbsp; police&nbsp; have&nbsp; right&nbsp; to&nbsp; demand&nbsp;&nbsp; surrender&nbsp;&nbsp; of<BR>&gt; encryption keys ... failure to do so is evidence you&nbsp; are&nbsp; hiding<BR>&gt; something: 2 year prison sentence.)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>NB: If you no longer HAVE the encryption key and are unable to produce<BR>it...you're still liable. 2 years prison. Sadly, my MP was too busy with the<BR>petrol crisis to be able to do anything about it, and I got a letter back<BR>telling me about how it's important for the police to be able to catch<BR>paedophiles. No arguement here, but the RIP is overkill &lt;sigh&gt;.<BR><BR>Ob-Trav: As part of a local criminal investigation the players are required<BR>to hand over the access codes to their ship's computer's primary databus<BR>controller. Watch the expressions when the crews computer expert rolls<BR>against skill and admits he hasn't got it.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 06:50:44 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>on 11/7/00 11:10 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Assets are devoted to analyzing "Tim's" messages.&nbsp; Naturally, he is placed<BR>&gt;&gt; under surveillance as well.&nbsp; Given time, a message is found embedded in a<BR>&gt;&gt; transmission. Tim is using a technique from the net that is know by the<BR>&gt;&gt; cryptographic experts in the government.&nbsp; Naturally, the source is milked<BR>&gt;&gt; for as long as possible before arrests are made.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And Tim is obviously a rank amateur. You don't let your<BR>&gt; girlfriend/boyfriend see such activities unless you are willing to bet<BR>&gt; your life on their reliability.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hell "closeted" gays and pagans re more careful than *that*!<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Sadly (or gladly) this is frequently how even 'professionals' are caught.<BR>Three can keep a secret, if two are dead...<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:27:28 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: EMP bursts<BR><BR>Patrik Holmstrm wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Trevor, Peter writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; I was thinking less of frying&nbsp; a&nbsp; ship's&nbsp; electronics,&nbsp; and&nbsp; more<BR>&gt; &gt; about a temporary sensor "white&nbsp; out"&nbsp; effect&nbsp; (as&nbsp; mentioned&nbsp; in<BR>&gt; &gt; Brilliant Lances).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My problem is that the sensor whiteout is supposed to work for<BR>&gt; an entire 30 min round. I can't buy that, especially as space<BR>&gt; is 3D, and besides it scales badly with published force sizes.<BR>&gt; A BatRon could easily use a dozen nukes every round to employ a<BR>&gt; "smoke screen" if it felt like it. Battle between more then just<BR>&gt; a few missile-armed ships would make it impossible to maintain a<BR>&gt; sensor lock among the tens, if not hundreds, of whiteouts.<BR><BR>The way its being implemented in Traveller Full&nbsp; Thrust&nbsp; is&nbsp; that<BR>(a) it only affects LOS through the nuke fireball, (b) you&nbsp; don't<BR>loose sensor lock but it increases the&nbsp; apparent&nbsp; range&nbsp; for&nbsp; the<BR>purposes of the to-hit roll, (c) you&nbsp; only&nbsp; get&nbsp; 1&nbsp; fireball&nbsp; per<BR>firing battery, and (d) so far only cruisers have been used&nbsp; (not<BR>a whole BatRon).&nbsp; The result is you do&nbsp; get&nbsp; walls&nbsp; of&nbsp; fireballs<BR>(but not too many) which you try to manuever round&nbsp; ...&nbsp; or&nbsp; fire<BR>through with a penalty.<BR><BR>As for the issue of duration the way I look at it is as&nbsp; a&nbsp; total<BR>white-out effect for a short time which translates as an&nbsp; overall<BR>lesser effect on the whole turn.&nbsp; Remember that events that occur<BR>within a turn do not necessarily last the whole turn.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 07:31:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR><BR>- --- Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;"The Guns of Navarone" would work well. A group of commandos sent in<BR>to knock out the meson gun battery that's the backbone of the planetary<BR>defense system. :-)&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Battlestar Galactica did just that about 20 years ago (I like to crib a<BR>lot from TV shows ... now, if I could just figure a way to work a Law &amp;<BR>Order episode into Traveller ...).<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Thousands of Stores.&nbsp; Millions of Products.&nbsp; All in one Place.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:42:37 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR><BR>&lt;fontfamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Helvetica&lt;/param&gt;Much as I love Battlestar Galactica, =<BR>I have to ask why they couldn't just fly around the other side of the =<BR>planet. :-)<BR><BR>Knocking out the central defense computer would make more sense. Which =<BR>is why no-one in their right minds would have a central defense =<BR>computer. (Norad is a decoy, everyone knows that). :-)<BR><BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Wednesday, November 8, 2000, at 03:31 PM, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;--- Leonard Erickson =<BR>&lt;&lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; =<BR>wrote:&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;"The Guns of Navarone" would work =<BR>well. A group of commandos sent =<BR>in&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;to knock out the meson gun battery =<BR>that's the backbone of the =<BR>planetary&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;defense system. =<BR>:-)&gt;&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt; =<BR>&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;Battlestar Galactica did just that =<BR>about 20 years ago (I like to crib =<BR>a&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;lot from TV shows ... now, if I could =<BR>just figure a way to work a Law =<BR>&amp;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;italic&gt;&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;/color&gt;&lt;italic&gt;Order episode into Traveller =<BR>...).&lt;/italic&gt;&lt;color&gt;&lt;param&gt;0000,0000,0000&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:56:23 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>Glen Goffin suggested:<BR><BR>&gt; I usually put the TL 16 mercenary battalion on, if I recall correctly,<BR>&gt; Saurus, and it takes the Sword Worlders forever to dislodge it.&nbsp; They can't<BR>&gt; get through Saurus without taking it because it doesn't have a gas giant.<BR>&gt; Maybe it's Tavonni or Asgard; I'm not looking at a map.&nbsp; Anyway, because of<BR>&gt; the nature of the combat results table, it doesn't matter how many troops<BR>&gt; the SW through at the mercenaries.&nbsp; The column shifts still prevent any<BR>&gt; mercenary casualties.&nbsp; This forces the Zhodani to designate forces to the<BR>&gt; rimward flank, away from their primary areas of interest in Jewell, Regina,<BR>&gt; and Aramis subsectors.<BR><BR>That's a clever idea.&nbsp; I don't recall off the top of my head how the<BR>TL shift works for orbital bombardment, but am I right in assuming<BR>that the Sword Worlders can -- very gradually -- reduce the unit that<BR>way?<BR><BR>Saurus has no gas giant and blocks the easy jump-2 approach to Lanth.<BR>(Non-5FW players: the Gram-(Tyrfing)-(Durandal)-(Dyrnwyn)-Tavonni route<BR>is not on the map.)&nbsp; I think Ficant has no gas giant and blocks the<BR>other jump-2 approach, but to get there I think they have to take Vilis<BR>first.&nbsp; Asgard is interdicted and the Imperium can't put troops there <BR>initially.<BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:06:04 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>Arthur C. is indeed still in Sri Lanka. He did return briefly to the<BR>UK during the Tamil uprising and (I believe) made a visit to the<BR>States to call in at NASA. He also has been working on a new TV series<BR>(hopefully not along the lines of "Mysteries") and there are even<BR>rumours of him writing again. But I suspect that SL is his home from<BR>now till the day he drops.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of<BR>&gt; trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>&gt; Sent: 08 November 2000 01:49<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Charles McKnight wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Has Clarke ever returned from Sri Lanka?&nbsp; (Last place I<BR>&gt; heard he was<BR>&gt; hanging out).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Arthur Clarke has lived in Sri Lanka since 1956 (or<BR>&gt; thereabouts) and presumbaly still does.&nbsp; I doubt he ever<BR>&gt; plans to live anywhere else (except, perhaps, the moon, but<BR>&gt; I'd imagine he knows he's too frail to hold onto that dream<BR>&gt; any more).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Trent<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:07:59 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Indeed it has. Personally, I find it bizarre given all the HTML 3.x<BR>pages that are still out there. The least they could have done would<BR>be to accept that HTML 4.x was still acceptable IMHO.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt<BR>&gt; Sent: 07 November 2000 06:21<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Views<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mark Preston wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; Behind the times Frankie! Did you miss that W3C has<BR>&gt; approved XHTML 1.0<BR>&gt; &gt; as the current standard for web pages?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I knew that was what was being planned, but I didn't know<BR>&gt; it had finally<BR>&gt; been ratified.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Frankie<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:35:31 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote (re: Arthur C. Clarke):<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Slightly too young is fair enough, but being British strike you out?!<BR><BR>What I meant was that, since he's British, I assumed his work wasn't introduced through the American pulp magazines (particularly John Campbell's "Astounding") that I consider synonymous with 'Golden Age' SF.&nbsp; If, in fact, he WAS introduced through those magazines, then I apologize (but he's still a little young to be Truly Golden Age).<BR><BR>As for the merits of British SF in general, one need look no further than H.G. Wells.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:03:07 -0000 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]<BR>Sent: 08 November 2000 15:43<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR><BR><BR>Much as I love Battlestar Galactica, I have to ask why they couldn't<BR>just fly around the other side of the planet. :-) <BR>Knocking out the central defense computer would make more sense. Which<BR>is why no-one in their right minds would have a central defense<BR>computer. (Norad is a decoy, everyone knows that). :-) <BR>- ---------------------<BR><BR>Meson guns can fire through the planet... there is no *other* side to<BR>fly around, just a few thousand km more range.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:08:39 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; on 11/7/00 4:41 PM, JFZeigler@aol.com at JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Actually, I contend that this is a misconception.&nbsp; Encryption can be<BR>&gt; &gt; built into communications products so that it is transparent to the user.<BR>&gt; &gt; We've already begun to see this, and in 3000+ years it could be as<BR>&gt; &gt; trivial as breathing.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Only if the government allows it.&nbsp; And if encryption is built in, in a<BR>&gt; restrictive government, expect the security apparatus to have the backdoor<BR>&gt; keys.&nbsp; Also, many encrypted systems are not as secure as one might think.<BR>&gt; CDMA cell phones utilized encrypted signals.&nbsp; As a former employee of a CDMA<BR>&gt; technology vendor, I know the encryption schema.&nbsp; Think the government<BR>&gt; doesn't have the same info?<BR><BR>Open-knowledge encryption schemas are not a liability, unless you're<BR>relying on security-though-obscurity. IN fact, one of the cryptologic<BR>strengths of PGP is that the source code is freely available for<BR>inspection and banging on.<BR><BR>Ideally, knowing _how_ something was encrypted shouldn't give you much<BR>more than general information on how to decrypt it.<BR><BR>But you're absolutely right, if the government is repressive enough,<BR>they can do whatever they want, such as mandating a specific encryption<BR>system that leaves them a back door. If they're careful enough about it,<BR>cloaking it in public minded assertions such as "We need this to fight<BR>crime and terrorists; if you, Joe and Josie Q. Public use our system all<BR>your purchases and e-mail will be safe from prying eyes and thieving<BR>fingers, and we will be able to protect you!" <BR><BR>They may even think that their privacy isn't being invaded, but much<BR>like the FBI's _successful_ provision ion the '96 Telcom act mandating<BR>backdoors in all digital telco switches, enableing them to essentially<BR>wiretap any phone in the country from an office in DC, and the right<BR>they have to obtain wiretaps in absolute secrecy, they'll be wrong.<BR><BR>It falls down to the old tyrants argument: "If you're innocent, you have<BR>nothing to hide..."<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:07:57 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote (re: Arthur C. Clarke):<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Slightly too young is fair enough, but being British strike you out?!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What I meant was that, since he's British, I assumed his work <BR>&gt; wasn't introduced through the American pulp magazines <BR>&gt; (particularly John Campbell's "Astounding") that I consider <BR>&gt; synonymous with 'Golden Age' SF. <BR><BR>Ah! Gotcha.<BR><BR>If, in fact, he WAS <BR>&gt; introduced through those magazines,<BR><BR>Not sure...I know they did intro a bunch of foreign talent<BR><BR>then I apologize (but <BR>&gt; he's still a little young to be Truly Golden Age).<BR><BR>Agreed. (Never thought I'd be agreeing Arthur C. Clarke was too young for<BR>anything! :)&nbsp; )<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As for the merits of British SF in general, one need look no <BR>&gt; further than H.G. Wells.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Seconded.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:42:30 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; on 11/7/00 11:10 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Assets are devoted to analyzing "Tim's" messages.&nbsp; Naturally, he is placed<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; under surveillance as well.&nbsp; Given time, a message is found embedded in a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; transmission. Tim is using a technique from the net that is know by the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; cryptographic experts in the government.&nbsp; Naturally, the source is milked<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; for as long as possible before arrests are made.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; And Tim is obviously a rank amateur. You don't let your<BR>&gt;&gt; girlfriend/boyfriend see such activities unless you are willing to bet<BR>&gt;&gt; your life on their reliability.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Hell "closeted" gays and pagans re more careful than *that*!<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sadly (or gladly) this is frequently how even 'professionals' are caught.<BR><BR>"Think of it as evolution in action."<BR><BR>Now *there's* a thought. Picture what sort of tricks 4000 more years of<BR>"practice" will come up with for underground/revolutionary groups.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:10:07 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; an advantage of pump shotguns--the automatics need a <BR>&gt; fairly consistent<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt; yeah; but I would rather have the semi-auto over a pump for <BR>&gt; an afternoon of<BR>&gt; &gt; clays...It's a LOT easier on the shoulder...:-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What kind of person uses HEAP rounds on clays???&nbsp; Hmmm. OK, I probably<BR>&gt; would...&nbsp; :-)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>The kind of person who armour plates 'em first? :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:14:19 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches (Was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson writes:<BR>[...]<BR>&gt; &gt;This is probably an error in canon (gasp!) where Rear and Vice were switched.<BR>&gt; &gt;Santanocheev should have been referred to as a Vice Admiral prior to his<BR>&gt; &gt;promotion to Sector Admiral, and Elphinstone should be a Rear Admiral.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't think so. If you assume that rear and vice admiral are ranks above<BR>&gt; commodore and below Fleet Admiral (which I'm perfectly aware is contrary to the<BR>&gt; character generation system), then both Santanocheev and Elphinstone are quite<BR>&gt; well matched for the job they are said to have. A rear admiral would seem quite<BR>&gt; suitable for OIC Naval Intelligence for a subsector and a vice admiral is quite<BR>&gt; suitable for commanding a BatRon supported by several CruRons (essentially a<BR>&gt; Battle Group: smaller than a full fleet but more than a single BatRon).<BR><BR>In the past, my campaign has had "Rear Admiral" be included in pay grade O8<BR>and "Vice Admiral" be included in pay grade O9.&nbsp; The difference between the<BR>officers with those titles and the standard ones depended on their job.<BR><BR>I've been thinking about switching this so that "Rear Admiral" is actually<BR>a senior Commodore (O7) and that Vice Admiral is a senior Fleet Admiral (O8),<BR>since Elphinstone's counter shows one star and Santanocheev's shows two.<BR>I'm thinking that Vice Admiral may be intended as "Vice Sector Admiral" by<BR>the Imperium.&nbsp; (In 5FW terms, the O7 officers would be commanding squadron<BR>counters and fleets with no admiral counter.)<BR><BR>Either way, the rank progression would then be:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Commodore -&gt; Rear Adm. -&gt; Fleet Adm. -&gt; Vice Adm. -&gt; Sector Adm.<BR><BR>possibly grouped into pay grades as<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; --------- O7 ---------&nbsp; &nbsp; ---------- O8 ---------&nbsp; &nbsp; --- O9 ---<BR>or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; --- O7 --&nbsp; &nbsp; --------- O8 ----------&nbsp; &nbsp; --------- O9 ----------<BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:44:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR>&gt;&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Geez, I really liked the Krishna books. :(<BR><BR>Grab a copy of GURPS: Planet Krishna (It actually covers the entire<BR>Viagens "universe") and integrate it into your campaign as a newly<BR>contacted minor human race. :-)<BR><BR>Ever read "Rogue Queen"?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:50:06 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; At typical Traveller TLs, hyperbaric environments are rare.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I thought initially that gravitics would radically affect <BR>&gt;&gt; underwater and<BR>&gt;&gt; deep underground construction, making shirtsleeve <BR>&gt;&gt; environments possible<BR>&gt;&gt; almost anywhere.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; On reflection, the environmental effects of neutralising the weight of<BR>&gt;&gt; large columns of water or rock could be profound. But that's another<BR>&gt;&gt; topic.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm probably overlooking something obvious, but surely with rock and<BR>&gt; other solid materials the effect of their weight would be transmitted<BR>&gt; through the surrounding material and thus not dramatically increase the<BR>&gt; pressure in a cavity. A liquid is always trying to fill the space, so it<BR>&gt; exerts a pressure, but a solid is supported by the surrounding material<BR>&gt; and it's downwards force will go around the cavity, much as in an arch<BR>&gt; or dome.<BR><BR>Rock in deep mines has a tendency to *abruptly* equalize pressure. That<BR>is, the walls and ceiling of tunnels and chambers "explode" in a shower<BR>of rock fragments. <BR><BR>And even ignoring the pressure of the rock, if you are a couple miles<BR>underground, the water in the rock will have two miles worth of<BR>pressure head behind it. So it'll spray in pretty hard (and fast) ir<BR>your tunnels intersect it. <BR><BR>A couple miles doesn't increase air pressure *too* badly, but again,<BR>unless you can seal the entire installation againt air entering (or<BR>leaving) via microcracks in the rock, you *will* have increaing air<BR>pressure.<BR><BR>And even if the installation is totally sealed, you'll have o have<BR>airlocks between the levels or the air pressure *will* increase with<BR>depth. You can't avoid that, even with CG. Not unless you run the<BR>facility with no internal gravity. <BR><BR>For that matter, I have to wonder what they do about water in deep<BR>installations. Picture opening a faucet with a thousand feet of "head"<BR>behind it! <BR><BR>And what the heck do you do with sewage in tall buildings? The image<BR>comes to mind of "solid waste" hitting the main stack and falling for a<BR>thousand feet before hitting the horizontal connection to the sewers. <BR><BR>Kinda hard on the pipes. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3271<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (rly-yg04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.4]) by air-yg01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:22:49 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:21:58 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA74732;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:20:56 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:16:33 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA74546<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:16:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:16:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011081816.NAA74546@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3271<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 8 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3272<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR>RE: Monitoring and crypto, NiceText<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Retro TV and Trav (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268)<BR>RE: Retro TV and Trav (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268)<BR>Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>RE: Planetary Firewalls<BR>In-System Defense<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Question<BR>RE: In-System Defense<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:01:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote :-<BR>&gt;&gt; No world will have such an atmosphere for a geologically significant<BR>&gt;&gt; timespan. But I can *easily* see it happening due to porrly handled (or<BR>&gt;&gt; accidental!) "terraforming".<BR><BR>&gt; Fair enough ; the scenario you describe is quite reasonable, and could<BR>&gt; potentially last for years (using numbers from:-<BR>&gt; http://www.foresight.org/NanoRev/Ecophagy.html<BR>&gt; for BOTE calcs - if the combustion rate was low enough.<BR><BR>Well, I'd expect it to be a case of organic sludge building up at the<BR>tideline until combustion got initiated by "spontaneous combustion" (or<BR>lightning!)<BR><BR>Whether or not this resulted in a *large* conflagration would depend on<BR>local geography. <BR><BR>Until and unless "animals" evolved or where introduced, you'd get an<BR>initial *large* overshoot, followed by greater and lesser oscillations<BR>about the "maximum". <BR><BR>Sure, it's rare and unlikely. So are most adventure scenarios. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Of course, at those levels the players may have other things to worry<BR>&gt;&gt; about. Like the fact that their *bodies* are flammable...<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; Exactly.<BR><BR>It just occured to me to wonder what would happen to a person firing a<BR>gun or an energy weapon in such an atmosphere... <BR><BR>&gt; I wrote :-<BR>&gt;&gt; At typical Traveller TLs, hyperbaric environments are rare.<BR><BR>&gt; I thought initially that gravitics would radically affect underwater and<BR>&gt; deep underground construction, making shirtsleeve environments possible<BR>&gt; almost anywhere.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On reflection, the environmental effects of neutralising the weight of<BR>&gt; large columns of water or rock could be profound. But that's another<BR>&gt; topic.<BR><BR>See my reply to a reply to the above.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:21:26 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Amnesia Scenario<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I once ran a game where the character began by coming to conscienceness<BR>in a<BR>&gt; &gt; rest room.&nbsp; They had no memory of who they were or how they got there.<BR>They<BR>&gt; &gt; were handcuffed to a dead NPC, the victim of a close range gunshot.&nbsp; A<BR>gun<BR>&gt; &gt; was lying nearby.&nbsp; Searching the body, the player found a handcuff key<BR>and a<BR>&gt; &gt; police badge...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'd unlock the cuffs. After that, my actions diverge...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As *me*, I'd wipe down anything I touched and scoot. *Without* taking<BR>&gt; anything.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As a PC, I'd take the badge, cuffs and keys. Whether or not I'd take<BR>&gt; the gun would depend on whether or not I thought the wound (due to<BR>&gt; powder burns, location, angle, etc) looked like an even *minimally*<BR>&gt; plausible suicide attempt.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If suicide might pass casual observation, I'd leave the gun. If not,<BR>&gt; I'd take it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Either way, I'd probably take any ID &amp; money. Among other things, that<BR>&gt; make "robbery" a likely explanation to be investigated by the cops. At<BR>&gt; least until they ID the body.<BR><BR>I've been thinking about this more.&nbsp; What if there is no handcuff key (but<BR>maybe a swiss army knife)?<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:19:11 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Monitoring and crypto, NiceText<BR><BR>&lt;snip the whole lot&gt;<BR><BR>Muahahahaha! Even better, you can code it and decode it using cut and paste<BR>and a little cunning. That's added to my bookmarks, many thanks, Bruce<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:24:51 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>&gt; And what the heck do you do with sewage in tall buildings? The image<BR>&gt; comes to mind of "solid waste" hitting the main stack and falling for a<BR>&gt; thousand feet before hitting the horizontal connection to the sewers. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kinda hard on the pipes. :-)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>If you find out, let me know. Inquiring minds want to know.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:26:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; But you're absolutely right, if the government is repressive enough,<BR>&gt; they can do whatever they want, such as mandating a specific encryption<BR>&gt; system that leaves them a back door. If they're careful enough about it,<BR>&gt; cloaking it in public minded assertions such as "We need this to fight<BR>&gt; crime and terrorists; if you, Joe and Josie Q. Public use our system all<BR>&gt; your purchases and e-mail will be safe from prying eyes and thieving<BR>&gt; fingers, and we will be able to protect you!" <BR><BR>Note that the average law level of solomani worlds, based on evidence from<BR>the Solomani Rim, appears to be similar to imperial worlds (in fact, it<BR>seems to be slightly lower, but that's probably random variance).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:29:59 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 08 November 2000 17:45<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Geez, I really liked the Krishna books. :(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Grab a copy of GURPS: Planet Krishna (It actually covers the entire<BR>&gt; Viagens "universe") and integrate it into your campaign as a newly<BR>&gt; contacted minor human race. :-)<BR><BR>Way ahead of you, good buddy :).&nbsp; Naturally I couldn't just slot the whole<BR>book in,&nbsp; cause the Jump drive doesn't suffer from the same time dilation<BR>problems as the inertialess drive does, and I had to base Krishnan society<BR>on the later, post-official contact period, but otherwise no problem<BR>(although easrly period would work for a Scout campaign). Some of the other<BR>aliens work as good minors, too.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ever read "Rogue Queen"?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>'Fraid not..my FLOOPBS ( copyright 2000 stupid acronyms inc) hasn't turned<BR>it up yet.<BR>Only a matter of time...<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:39:10 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; And what the heck do you do with sewage in tall buildings? The image<BR>&gt; &gt; comes to mind of "solid waste" hitting the main stack and <BR>&gt; falling for a<BR>&gt; &gt; thousand feet before hitting the horizontal connection to <BR>&gt; the sewers. <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Kinda hard on the pipes. :-)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you find out, let me know. Inquiring minds want to know.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Now I'm about 99% sure Leonard was kidding on this one, but I'll give it a<BR>go.<BR><BR>1. The pipes aren't filled with empty air...the solid waste is flushed out<BR>by running water. The waste remains supported by the water in its trip down.<BR><BR>2. If there IS just empty air, the waste'll stop accelerating once it<BR>reaches terminal velocity and...<BR><BR>3. The Coriolis effect would smear it all over the side of the pipes anyway.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:41:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; A couple miles doesn't increase air pressure *too* badly, but again,<BR>&gt; unless you can seal the entire installation againt air entering (or<BR>&gt; leaving) via microcracks in the rock, you *will* have increaing air<BR>&gt; pressure.<BR>&gt; <BR>IIRC, the deep gold mine in South Africa (working face c. -3 km) runs<BR>about 2 Atm at the bottom. That would be the East Dreifontein mine<BR>where the ambient temp is 55 (120).<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:40:41 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;And what the heck do you do with sewage in tall buildings? The image<BR>&gt;&gt;comes to mind of "solid waste" hitting the main stack and falling for a <BR>&gt;&gt;thousand feet before hitting the horizontal connection to the sewers.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Kinda hard on the pipes. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If you find out, let me know. Inquiring minds want to know.<BR><BR>I direct you to Cecil Adams' website, whereupon you will find his answer to <BR>the gripping question "When a toilet atop the Sears Tower is flushed, do the <BR>contents fall 110 floors?":<BR><BR>http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_252.html<BR><BR>Cecil Adams -- he answers the questions you *really* want to ask.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:46:16 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Retro TV and Trav (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 07:31:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>&gt;From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- --- Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;"The Guns of Navarone" would work well. A group of commandos sent in<BR>&gt;to knock out the meson gun battery that's the backbone of the planetary<BR>&gt;defense system. :-)&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Battlestar Galactica did just that about 20 years ago (I like to crib a<BR>&gt;lot from TV shows ... now, if I could just figure a way to work a Law &amp;<BR>&gt;Order episode into Traveller ...).<BR><BR>I can see it now....<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ---battlecruiser---<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; K&nbsp; I&nbsp; N&nbsp; U&nbsp; N&nbsp; I&nbsp; R<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -------------------<BR><BR>"There are those who believe...&nbsp; that life out there... began<BR>here... from far accross the galaxy... with tribes created by<BR>the&nbsp; Ancients...&nbsp; who may have been,&nbsp; the forefathers of&nbsp; the<BR>Vilani... or the Zhodani... or the Solomani....&nbsp; Some believe<BR>there may yet be brothers of man,&nbsp; who even now fight to sur-<BR>vive... somewhere, beyond the Third Imperium...."<BR><BR><BR>Actually... now that I think about it, that might make for an interesting <BR>campaign... another major human race, duking it out with someone else, out <BR>near the rim.&nbsp; (Why should the core get all the fun? =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:00:01 -0000 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Retro TV and Trav (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Jonathan McDermott [mailto:caraig@mindspring.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 08 November 2000 18:46<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Retro TV and Trav (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 07:31:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;- --- Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&lt;&lt;"The Guns of Navarone" would work well. A group of <BR>&gt; commandos sent in<BR>&gt; &gt;to knock out the meson gun battery that's the backbone of <BR>&gt; the planetary<BR>&gt; &gt;defense system. :-)&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Battlestar Galactica did just that about 20 years ago (I <BR>&gt; like to crib a<BR>&gt; &gt;lot from TV shows ... now, if I could just figure a way to <BR>&gt; work a Law &amp;<BR>&gt; &gt;Order episode into Traveller ...).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I can see it now....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ---battlecruiser---<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; K&nbsp; I&nbsp; N&nbsp; U&nbsp; N&nbsp; I&nbsp; R<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "There are those who believe...&nbsp; that life out there... began<BR>&gt; here... from far accross the galaxy... with tribes created by<BR>&gt; the&nbsp; Ancients...&nbsp; who may have been,&nbsp; the forefathers of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; Vilani... or the Zhodani... or the Solomani....&nbsp; Some believe<BR>&gt; there may yet be brothers of man,&nbsp; who even now fight to sur-<BR>&gt; vive... somewhere, beyond the Third Imperium...."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually... now that I think about it, that might make for an <BR>&gt; interesting <BR>&gt; campaign... another major human race, duking it out with <BR>&gt; someone else, out <BR>&gt; near the rim.&nbsp; (Why should the core get all the fun? =)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Wow!<BR><BR>Hmm...more to follow.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:10:51 -0700 <BR>From: Cliff Linehan &lt;clinehan@sfamipec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 07:31:47 -0800 (PST) From: Gerry Harris<BR>&lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt;- --- Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;"The Guns of Navarone" would work well. A group of commandos sent in<BR>&gt;to knock out the meson gun battery that's the backbone of the planetary<BR>&gt;defense system. :-)&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;Battlestar Galactica did just that about 20 years ago (I like to crib a<BR>&gt;lot from TV shows ... now, if I could just figure a way to work a Law &amp;<BR>&gt;Order episode into Traveller ...).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=====<BR>&gt;Gerry Harris<BR><BR>That would be the Ravashall Pulsar in Battlestar Galactica.<BR><BR>Traveller adventure: Law &amp; Order style<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A high passenger books passage on a tramp ship and for the first<BR>three days of jump shows up in unexpected and restricted areas and other<BR>evidence shows that he/she has been in other areas without being found. On<BR>the night of the third day he/she leaves a note and a bribe for the ships<BR>captain to be left alone until dock side. At dock side the passenger does<BR>not show. When the stateroom is searched, the body is found and the sight of<BR>it would make a Imperial Marine flinch. In step the law and a long drawn out<BR>investigation and trial reconstructing everything that happened during the<BR>jump. Everyone on ship during jump is suspect.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The PC's are given the job of investigation and prosecution due to<BR>some weird local law.<BR><BR>Clifford Linehan<BR>http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:54:17 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;And what the heck do you do with sewage in tall buildings? The image<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;comes to mind of "solid waste" hitting the main stack and falling <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;for a thousand feet before hitting the horizontal connection to <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;the sewers.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Kinda hard on the pipes. :-)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;If you find out, let me know. Inquiring minds want to know.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I direct you to Cecil Adams' website, whereupon you will find his <BR>&gt;answer to the gripping question "When a toilet atop the Sears Tower <BR>&gt;is flushed, do the contents fall 110 floors?":<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_252.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Cecil Adams -- he answers the questions you *really* want to ask.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>An interesting answer. A briefer and more general example is the rule <BR>of thumb is to not have more than a ten story uninterrupted vertical <BR>distance. This of course assumes a certain strength of pipe. Even the <BR>standing stack of water Dean suggests supports the waste has weight. <BR>The pressure at the bottom of a pipe increases with height of the <BR>pipe. There are numerous recorded cases of buildings constructed with <BR>stacks with too long uninterrupted verticals or insufficiently strong <BR>pipes. Friends of my parents bought a condo in Vancouver. One day <BR>someone many floors up flushed a toilet and the pressure spike was <BR>enough for the waste pipe in the wall to explode, blowing off the <BR>drywall and flooding their apartment with sewage. The pipe wasn't <BR>flawed in any way, but it wasn't strong enough for the application.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Plumbing of all types can become quite exciting in variable G <BR>environments like space ships.<BR><BR>A good, but large, book covering all the interesting things in our <BR>buildings is Mechanical and Electrical Equipment for Buildings 8th <BR>ed. by Benjamin Stein and John S. Reynolds.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:22:05 -0800<BR>From: "Mike Linsenmayer" &lt;mlinsenmayer@symantec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Planetary Firewalls<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm<BR>&gt; gonna steal that<BR>&gt; &gt; for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has<BR>&gt; FTL comms and<BR>&gt; &gt; Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just keep in mind that it's truly *trivial* for a ship to<BR>&gt; receive data<BR>&gt; via laser from a ground installation, and nor that much<BR>&gt; harder to go in<BR>&gt; the other direction. And very hard to detect either.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Which makes *bypassing* the firewall easy. Rthar like trying to use a<BR>&gt; firewall to isolate your corporate network when your<BR>&gt; employees can hook<BR>&gt; up a modem and dial out.<BR><BR><BR>You can still monitor actual traffic. So you hook in, But now I see a new<BR>address, Location, what ever you want to call it, that wasnt there before<BR>or is not on my access lists etc.<BR><BR>This address will get droped or get forwared to a trap or suger pot of some<BR>kind. Even if you spoof an address. If you send in an incoming echo replie<BR>when there are no echo requests, this may an advanced probe. Another<BR>possibility is that your address space is being used (spoofed) in a smurf<BR>style denial of service attack. If you see outgoing echo replies w/o echo<BR>requests you would do well to investigate. If you see a location sending<BR>outgoing ICMP broadcast packets with the source IP address not part of<BR>their own internal address space may well be launching a smurf attack.<BR><BR>Another common misconception is that a firewall will secure your computer<BR>facilities and additional steps don't need to be taken. A firewall is just<BR>one component of an effective network security model. Many additional<BR>components or "layers" would also be inplace. Like the following<BR><BR>Network Security policies: Like only blah blah regina.sm.world.gov.imp can<BR>access world net services via this network etc.<BR>Host system security: only users in this distrct can access this resource<BR>etc.<BR>Auditing (IDS): This address is coming from blah blah address and dosnt<BR>have the "firewall" header on it, lets just drop it and alert the Security<BR>police.<BR>Router security:<BR>Intrusion detection systems: Current Network Intrusion Detection System<BR>(NIDS) products (first generation) use a predominantly passive approach to<BR>collect data via protocol analysis by watching traffic on the network, God<BR>knows what we will have in 200 years. Most IDS have been built on<BR>signature-base and anomaly detection, providing the capability to look for<BR>set "patterns" in packets, but they can also be tuned to look for things<BR>you should never see. The addition of specific string search signature<BR>(i.e. look for Zhodani, Psionics etc.). Network-based IDS are built on the<BR>wiretapping concept: A sensor-like device tries to examine every frame that<BR>goes by. These sensors apply predefined rule sets or attack "signatures" to<BR>the captured frames to identify hostile traffic.<BR><BR>You can then do threshold monitoring that sets values for metrics defining<BR>acceptable behavior (e.g., fewer than some number of failed logins per time<BR>period, or IP encapsulation (modem dial in via PPP wan wrappers etc&nbsp; (or<BR>Laser comms securing a remote connections in Travellers case)). I must say<BR>that unfortunately it is often difficult to characterize intrusive behavior<BR>solely in terms of thresholds, and approximation can result in a high rate<BR>of false positives, or high rate of false negatives across a non-uniform<BR>user population i.e. like a low law level world were anything goes on the<BR>"net", but this can work both ways depending on the worlds law level as<BR>well. Let try a very Uniform high law level world where only certain<BR>actions can be done at certain times etc. So you logging in from your<BR>"friends" system from orbit would immediately be detected as unacceptable<BR>behavior and flag for investigation<BR><BR>You can also do profiling. Profiling assigns users to specific work groups<BR>that demonstrate a common work pattern and hence a common profile. A group<BR>profile is calculated based upon the historic activities of the entire<BR>group. Individual users in the group are expected to adhere to the group<BR>profile. Also a single user is less able to "broaden" the profile to which<BR>they are to conform. So logging in and now accessing the Central bank of<BR>Regina's account records when that was never done before from the network<BR>access port defined profile could raise a red flag and send the secret<BR>police out to your ship.<BR><BR>There is also resource profiling. This monitors system-wide use of such<BR>resources as accounts, applications, storage media, protocols,<BR>communications ports, etc. This makes it easier to detect potential<BR>intruders.<BR><BR>Misuse detection essentially checks for "activity that's bad" with<BR>comparison to abstracted descriptions of undesired activity. This approach<BR>attempts to draft rules describing known undesired usage (based on past<BR>penetrations or activity which is theorized would exploit known weaknesses)<BR>rather than describing historical "normal" usage. Rules may be written to<BR>recognize a single auditable event that in and of itself represents a<BR>threat to system security, or a sequence of events that represent a<BR>prolonged penetration scenario.<BR><BR>So ya you can bybass teh Firewall, Dal in with a modem, but if you have<BR>good net security it will quickly be found out and the Imperial secret<BR>police will come knocking at your door.<BR><BR>- -Mike<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------<BR>Mike Linsenmayer<BR>mlinsenmayer@symantec.com<BR>Enterprise Lab Manager<BR>mlinsenmayer@symantec.com<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:59:24 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: In-System Defense<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I was wondering if anyone seriously thought about how defending a system<BR>from attack would be modeled.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; There has been much talk of the cat and mouse game starship combat would be<BR>like while each ship sought to detect the other via passive sensors and keep<BR>themselves hidden via EMCON and other schemes.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I would surmise that in the CT/MT Traveller universe there would be remote<BR>and/or manned sensor stations all over a system, roughly analagous to the<BR>SOSUS nets currently used by the U.S. They could be almost anywhere: in the<BR>asteroid belt, in cometary orbits and many other non-descript places. Using<BR>solar power and batteries they would be nearly undetectable until they went<BR>active. Looking at the design tables, it would be very cost effective to<BR>place large numbers of active and passive sensor satellites/probes and use<BR>them to determine where enemy ships were located.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Scenario One: A number of these orbiting a gas giant in the rings would<BR>make refueling ships easy prey for SDBs prowling the atmosphere of the gas<BR>giant or staying at minimum power hidden in a ring shepard or other orbiting<BR>junk.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sceanrio Two: Missile attacks could be directed at attacking fleets very<BR>stealthily: A sensor station actively pinpoints the course and position of<BR>an enemy dreadnought observing strict EMCON: The dreadnought would notice<BR>the sensor sweep, but might elect to stay pat, reasoning that they may have<BR>been missed or misidentified. The attack would be launched from behind a<BR>moon or other body by the defenders, relying Fractional Orbit Breakaway to<BR>slingshot the (coasting) dormant&nbsp; missiles toward the dreadnought. At the<BR>Closest Point of Approach, the missiles would go active and launch into<BR>their endgames at very close range. The Dreadnought might not know what was<BR>going on until the missiles went active. Bad news for the Dreadnought. A few<BR>megatons worth of warhead yields within 1 Km would be very bad news.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Anybody's thoughts?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:17:40 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>On 7 Nov 2000, at 23:51, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;For those that are interested, L. Sprague deCamp died on Monday.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;http://www.lspraguedecamp.com/<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Bummer.&nbsp; Off-hand, does anyone know if ANY of the other "Golden Age" (by which<BR>&gt; &gt; I mean roughly pre-WWII) SF authors are left?&nbsp; (Arthur Clarke, being 1)<BR>&gt; &gt; British and 2) slightly too young, doesn't count, btw).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I think Jack Williamson is still around, and *he* IS true "Golden Age".<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Does Jack Vance go back that far?<BR><BR>I don't know, but he's old enough, the question is whether he was writing then.<BR><BR>&gt; Poul Anderson is post WWII, but not by all that much.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is Fred Pohl still around?<BR><BR>AFAIK he is.<BR>- --<BR>Rupert Boleyn<BR>"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:21:51 -0600<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Question<BR><BR>Question for the canon counters out there:<BR><BR>Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil? Or do we say<BR>someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:58:37 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: In-System Defense<BR><BR>Mathew Helton wrote:<BR>&gt; I was wondering if anyone seriously thought about how defending<BR>&gt; a system from attack would be modeled.<BR><BR>There is some discussion of&nbsp; this&nbsp; p82&nbsp; of&nbsp; COACC.&nbsp; It&nbsp; describes<BR>attacking a world as like peeling an onion.<BR><BR>&lt;summary&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The first layer is any naval forces insystem, Imperial&nbsp; fleet<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; elements or local&nbsp; forces&nbsp; (SDBs&nbsp; and&nbsp; monitors),&nbsp; which&nbsp; are<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; usually focused on the gas giants.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Once the invading force has secured the gas giant it advances<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; on the mainworld.&nbsp; At 1/10th planetary diameter&nbsp; range&nbsp; COACC<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; comes out to play.&nbsp; First COACC's&nbsp; SDBs&nbsp; join&nbsp; in,&nbsp; then&nbsp; its<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; fighter&nbsp; squadrons&nbsp; (orbital&nbsp; patrol&nbsp; fighters&nbsp;&nbsp; and&nbsp;&nbsp; ground<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; launched).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Within 50,000km planetary deep meson guns open&nbsp; fire&nbsp; against<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; invading capital ships.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; At 200km robot orbital battlestations in low&nbsp; orbit&nbsp; are&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; last line of space defense.&nbsp; These are cheap, unmanned, mass-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; produced, with a&nbsp; 100-ton&nbsp; missile&nbsp; bay&nbsp; (nuke).&nbsp; For&nbsp; safety<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; reason they are not deployed unless hostilities are imminent.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; After&nbsp; that,&nbsp; troop-laden&nbsp; assault&nbsp; shuttles&nbsp;&nbsp; entering&nbsp;&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; atmosphere are forced to slow and become&nbsp; prey&nbsp; to&nbsp; concealed<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; supersonic VTOL fighters and COACC-manned ground-based&nbsp; laser<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; and missile batteries.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; If they reach the ground they face local ground forces.<BR>&lt;/summary&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; I would surmise that in the CT/MT Traveller universe there would<BR>&gt; be remote and/or manned sensor stations all over a system, roughly<BR>&gt; analagous to the SOSUS nets currently used by the U.S.<BR><BR>The problem with this idea&nbsp; is&nbsp; that&nbsp; to&nbsp; be&nbsp; effect&nbsp; you'd&nbsp; need<BR>billions to cover a typical star system,&nbsp; and&nbsp; most&nbsp; of&nbsp; that&nbsp; is<BR>unnecessary (unless this thread is about to go into the forbidden<BR>territory of near-c rocks).&nbsp; It is&nbsp; far&nbsp; more&nbsp; cost-effective&nbsp; to<BR>concentrate your defenses where the invader is going to go.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3272<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 8 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3273<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Nobles for Loren<BR>Re: Question<BR>RE: Question<BR>Re: Hi altitude sewage<BR>Re: Virus<BR>For low-tech Striker: FT-17<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches (Was: Nobles for Loren)<BR>Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys &lt;long &amp; rambling&gt;<BR>re: In-System Defense<BR>Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR>re: Question<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:12:41 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR><BR>Commodore is presently a position rather than a rank in the USN.<BR>Commodores are typically very senior captains who may or may not make the<BR>step up to the admiralty.<BR>I don't believe that they are considerd to be "flag" rank, although<BR><BR>The Rear Admiral Grade is divided into "lower" and upper" half designations.<BR>These are followed by vice-admiral and admiral. (3 and 4 stars respectively)<BR><BR>The highest rank (5-stars) is called "fleet" admiral and is eserved for<BR>wartime appointments.&nbsp; Ernest J. King and Arleigh Burke were the most recent<BR>holders IIRC.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:58 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;7&nbsp;&nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp; &nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0 (referred to as a Vice<BR>Admiral)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is probably an error in canon (gasp!) where Rear and Vice were<BR>switched.<BR>&gt; Santanocheev should have been referred to as a Vice Admiral prior to his<BR>&gt; promotion to Sector Admiral, and Elphinstone should be a Rear Admiral.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Note that the real-world ranks, in increasing seniority, are as follows:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Commodore<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rear Admiral<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Vice Admiral<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Admiral<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:41:17 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt; inquires:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Question for the canon counters out there:<BR><BR>Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil? Or do we say<BR>someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>To the best of my knowledge (The Nobles essay in MT and the Library Data<BR>entry on the same) the answer is: All nobles owe fealty to the Emperor and<BR>only the Emperor. I base this on the fact that ONLY the Emperor may create a<BR>new noble (with the specifically noted exception of the Archdukes, who may<BR>create baronets and knights.) Without the ability to create a new noble, I'm<BR>pretty sure that subinfeudation could not occur within the Imperium. This is<BR>similar to the way that William the Conqueror did things, IIRC, when he took<BR>over England; he handed out all the titles, and refused to allow<BR>subinfeudation.<BR><BR>BTW, this is the way I rule IMTU; I think the system works better this way,<BR>as there are no confusing lines of competing loyalty, which was the problem<BR>in places where subinfeudation was common. (The question of resolving what<BR>happens when a lower-ranking noble refuses to take orders from a<BR>higher-ranking noble, or worse, does not believe the higher-ranking noble is<BR>correctly representing the Emperor, I leave to the clever student with the<BR>biggest battalions.)<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:50:22 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question<BR><BR>Loren wrote:<BR>&gt; Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty<BR>&gt; to higher nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion<BR>&gt; of sub-infeudation as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron<BR>&gt; Vorkbeard owe fealty to Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of<BR>&gt; the Duke of Oil? Or do we say someplace that the emperor is the<BR>&gt; font from whom all blessings flow?<BR><BR>Well the simple answer&nbsp; is&nbsp; it's&nbsp; *almost*&nbsp; the&nbsp; latter:&nbsp; p34&nbsp; of<BR>Supplement 11 says<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "All&nbsp; noble&nbsp; ranks&nbsp; within&nbsp; the&nbsp; peerage&nbsp; come&nbsp; from&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Emperor.&nbsp; The ability to&nbsp; create&nbsp; knights&nbsp; and&nbsp; baronets,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; however, is shared with the archdukes&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; Imperium.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The archdukes, within their domains, have&nbsp; the&nbsp; authority<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; to&nbsp; create&nbsp; knights&nbsp; and&nbsp; baronets,&nbsp;&nbsp; subject&nbsp;&nbsp; only&nbsp;&nbsp; to<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; disapproval&nbsp; by&nbsp; the&nbsp; Emperor.&nbsp;&nbsp; The&nbsp; purpose&nbsp; of&nbsp;&nbsp; these<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; knighthoods (and baronetcies) is to allow&nbsp; the&nbsp; archdukes<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; to create supporters and retainers for their own purposes<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; rather than to depend on the Emperor to do so.&nbsp; The noble<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ranks created are not members of the peerage."<BR><BR>This seems fairly clear-cut.&nbsp; However, life is not&nbsp; that&nbsp; simple:<BR>the diagram on p28&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; Rebellion&nbsp; Sourcebook&nbsp; is&nbsp; just&nbsp; one<BR>example that shows there is a&nbsp; real&nbsp; 'chain-of-command'&nbsp; at&nbsp; work<BR>within the hierarchy of noble ranks.<BR><BR>My interpretation is to favour the&nbsp; CT&nbsp; reference&nbsp; and&nbsp; say&nbsp; that<BR>although lesser and greater noble ranks confirs&nbsp; sub-infeudation-<BR>like&nbsp; powers&nbsp; there&nbsp; is&nbsp; still&nbsp; only&nbsp; one&nbsp; peerage&nbsp; (the&nbsp; Emperor<BR>infeudates the peerage&nbsp; nobles&nbsp; including&nbsp; the&nbsp; archdukes),&nbsp; plus<BR>several 'mini-peerages' (the archdukes infeudate the&nbsp; non-peerage<BR>nobles).&nbsp;&nbsp; In&nbsp; other&nbsp; words&nbsp; a&nbsp; 2-tier&nbsp; genuine&nbsp;&nbsp; sub-infeudation<BR>structure *mimicking* a many-tier sub-infeudation structure.<BR><BR>So Baron Vorkbeard does *not* owe fealty to Count&nbsp; Chocula&nbsp; (etc)<BR>... though he can be commanded by him ... but Sir Robin does&nbsp; owe<BR>fealty to Archduke Dulinor who owes fealty to Emperor Strephon.<BR><BR>Clear as mud or what!<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:26:29 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Hi altitude sewage<BR><BR>In a message dated 08-Nov-00 4:04:08 PM Central Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; And what the heck do you do with sewage in tall buildings? The image<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; comes to mind of "solid waste" hitting the main stack and falling for a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; thousand feet before hitting the horizontal connection to the sewers. <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Kinda hard on the pipes. :-)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; If you find out, let me know. Inquiring minds want to know.<BR><BR>Cecil Adams (The Straight Dope) answered this question in glorious detail <BR>several years ago.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:31:39 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Virus<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; We are required by the licensing agreement not to deal with certain <BR>topics.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Can you tell us what they are?<BR><BR>Nothing legally prohibits me, but I'd rather not, as it will spoil the <BR>surprise.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:32:18 EST<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: For low-tech Striker: FT-17<BR><BR>For the Nov. 18 low tech Striker battle, here's my take on the French FT-17<BR><BR>A light tank with a crew of two, it is available in "male" (cannon armed)<BR>and "female" (MG armed) versions, thus ensuring the continuation of the<BR>species.&nbsp; Vivre la difference!&nbsp; With good armor for its day, it also features<BR>a 360o revolving turret, with one very busy crewman.&nbsp; Exported to several<BR>countries (including US &amp; Japan), it was also the basis for the Soviet T-18<BR>and the Italian Fiat 3000.<BR><BR>I decided to give the rounded turret a moderate slope on all sides (it<BR>would have some ballistic advatage), and gave the hull front a moderate<BR>slope (bow is almost radical, but upper hull front nearly vertical -- I<BR>compromised).&nbsp; I ignored the minimum size requirements for the power plant.<BR>Commander's volume taken from hull (reasonable, as the FT-17's turret is<BR>a sort of bloated cupola).&nbsp; Weight is pretty high (6.8 tons for real tank).<BR>Ground pressure is too low (I think the suspension could be a bit smaller<BR>-- it would lower weight &amp; raise ground pressure).&nbsp; Speed isn't too bad.<BR>Some dimensions obtained from scale drawings of questionable accuracy.<BR>The turret might actually have had slightly different dimensions<BR><BR><BR>A7V errata: Superstructure is listed as being crystaliron; this is a typo.<BR>Vehicle data correctly reflects mild steel armor.&nbsp; I screwed up the fuel <BR>endurance (it's per output, not plant volume).&nbsp; Only effects A7V.&nbsp; Endurance<BR>is 3.7 hours, not 0.56.&nbsp; This is a good approximation of the real vehicle.<BR>Mea culpa.&nbsp; Fuel consumption for A7V is 135 liters per hour.<BR><BR>TL-5 rules note: With the importance of spalling &amp; splash effects in WWI<BR>tank engagements (from unhardened armor &amp; extensive use of non-tapered bolts<BR>in armor construction), I suggest adding crew hits to the Surface Damage <BR>Table, in place of some equipment not commonly found on TL-5 tanks.&nbsp; Replace<BR>roll 7 (vision enhancement device) and/or roll 9 (laser sensor) with 1 crew<BR>hit (using PV of round as positive DM, vehicle armor as negative DM -- roll<BR>on the Personnel Wound Table.&nbsp; "My eyes!"<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR><BR>FT-17 light tank&nbsp; TL-5<BR><BR>This vehicle has a crew of 2 (commander/gunner/[loader], &amp; driver.&nbsp; It mounts<BR>either a 3.5 cm low velocity gun or a medium machine gun in a forward mount<BR>in a turret on the chassis deck.&nbsp; Length: 4.1 m (+ 0.9 m trench crossing <BR>"tail").&nbsp; Width: 1.74 m.&nbsp; Height: 1.65 m (+ 0.6 m turret).&nbsp; Total volume: <BR>11.35 m^3.&nbsp; Weight: 8.23 tons male / 7.995 tons female.&nbsp; Floater no. 2.<BR>Cost: Cr 14,484 male / 15,315 female.&nbsp; Cost &amp; weight include full load of<BR>ammunition.<BR><BR>Movement:&nbsp; Road speed: 10 kph/8 cm.&nbsp; Cross-country: 3 kph/2.5 cm.<BR>Endurance:&nbsp; hours.&nbsp; Ground pressure 3 (for both).&nbsp; <BR>Power:weight ratio: 3.16 male / 3.25 female.<BR><BR>Movement effects on fire: Move up to 1/2: -4 FFP, no fire EFP.&nbsp; Move over<BR>1/2: no fire. <BR><BR>Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Hull front: 7.&nbsp; Hull sides &amp; rear: 5.&nbsp; Turret front,<BR>sides, &amp; rear: 10.&nbsp; Deck: 2.&nbsp; Belly: 1.<BR><BR>Target size DMs: +2 low.&nbsp; +1 high.<BR><BR>Equipment: Trench crossing tail.&nbsp; Turret deck fitted with observation cupola<BR>(no weapon mounts).<BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>Male version:<BR>The low velocity 3.5 cm gun may engage 1 target.&nbsp; It has direct fire control<BR>&amp; a signature of +1.&nbsp; 237 rounds are carried (71 KEAP, 166 HE).&nbsp; ROF per <BR>phase is 7.<BR><BR>Ammo&nbsp; &nbsp; Effective&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR><BR>KEAP&nbsp; &nbsp; 20(6)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 60(4)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 150(2)<BR>HE&nbsp; 20(4/-/-)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 60(4/-/-)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 150(4/-/-)<BR><BR>Female version:<BR>The medium machinegun may engage 8 targets.&nbsp; It has a signature of +2<BR>and sufficient ammo for 56 phases of fire.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Effective&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR><BR>MMG 40(3)+4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 75(2)+3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 120(2)+1<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR>Design details:<BR><BR>Hull: 4.1 m long, 1.74 m wide, 1.65 m high.&nbsp; Hull volume = 11.77 m^3<BR><BR>Suspension: Tracked <BR>4.1 m long by 0.67 m wide.&nbsp; Weight: 2.747 tons.&nbsp; Volume: 2.747 m^3.<BR>Cr 6868.&nbsp; Remaining volume: 9.023 m^3 <BR><BR>Configuration: Moderate front, vertical sides &amp; rear.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available volume = 8.1207 m^3<BR><BR>Turret: 1.16 m long, 1.16 m wide, 0.6 m high.&nbsp; Turret volume = 0.807 m^3<BR>Configuration: moderate front, sides, &amp; rear.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available turret volume 0.48 m^3<BR><BR>Hull Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Volume = 0.41 m^3&nbsp; Weight = 3.28 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cost = Cr 656&nbsp; Remaining volume = 7.7107 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 1.6 cm thick (AV 7), 0.046 m^3<BR>Sides = 1.6 cm thick (AV 5), 0.217 m^3.<BR>Rear = 1.6 cm thick (AV 5), 0.046 m^3 <BR>Deck = 0.8 cm thick (AV 2), 0.058 m^3.<BR>Belly = 0.6 cm thick (AV 1), 0.043 m^3.<BR><BR>Turret Armor: Mild Steel.&nbsp; Volume = 0.0615 m^3.&nbsp; Weight = 0.492 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cost = Cr 99&nbsp; Remaining Volume = 0.418 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 2.2 cm thick (AV 10), 0.0154 m^3.<BR>Sides = 2.2 cm thick (AV 10), 0.0307 m^3.<BR>Rear = 2.2 cm thick (AV 10), 0.0154 m^3.<BR><BR>* = in turret<BR><BR>Power Plant: Internal combustion, 0.174 m^3.&nbsp; Output 0.026 MW.&nbsp; 0.174 ton.<BR>Cr 174.&nbsp; I'm ignoring the 1 m^3 minimum size.&nbsp; Output based on 35 hp RL<BR>engine. <BR><BR>Transmission: 0.13 m^3.&nbsp; 0.13 tons.&nbsp; Cr 130.<BR><BR>Fuel: 150 liters.&nbsp; 0.15 tons.&nbsp; 0.15 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 38.&nbsp; Endurance: 6.4 hours<BR>Power plant consumes 23.4 liters per hour.&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>Crew:&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>1 Driver, seated in hull,&nbsp; Volume 2 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr100<BR>1 Commander, standing in hull,&nbsp; Volume 3 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100<BR><BR>Commander acts as commander/gunner/loader in male version; commander/<BR>gunner in female version.<BR><BR>Equipment: 1 trench crossing tail. (c. 0.9 meters long, 1.07 meters wide,<BR>0.6 meters high).&nbsp; External to vehicle.&nbsp; Weight 0.5 tons &lt;guess&gt;.&nbsp; <BR>Cr 250?&nbsp; Helps vehicle cross trenches.&nbsp; Don't leave home without one.<BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>Male version:<BR>1 low velocity TL-5 3.5cm gun in fixed forward mount in turret, with<BR>direct fire control.<BR>Crew: 1<BR>Weight: 0.065 tons.&nbsp; Volume: 0.065 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 5000.*<BR>Direct fire control: 0.005 tons.&nbsp; 0.005 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 500.*<BR>Range: 20 cm / 60 cm / 150 cm.&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Stabilization gear: none. <BR>ROF per phase: 7.<BR>Signature: +1.<BR><BR>Ammunition Types:<BR>HE: PV 4/-/-.&nbsp; Wt. 0.0012 tons.&nbsp; Vol. 0.0012 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 2.4.&nbsp; Figures per <BR>round.<BR><BR>KEAP: PV 6/4/2.&nbsp; Wt 0.0012 tons.&nbsp; Vol. 0.0012 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 2.4. Figures per <BR>round.<BR><BR>237 rounds carried (71 KEAP, 166 HE): Cr 569,&nbsp; 0.285 tons,&nbsp; 0.285 m^3.<BR><BR>Female version:<BR>1 Medium Machinegun in frontal turret face.&nbsp; No fire control or <BR>stabilization.<BR><BR>Crew 1<BR>Volume: 0.0095 m^3.&nbsp; Weight: 0.0095 tons.&nbsp; Cr 1500*<BR>45 belts of ammo carried: 0.1125 tons.&nbsp; 0.1125 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 5,400.*<BR><BR>Waste Space in Hull: 1.97 m^3 male / 2.26 m^3 female. <BR>Waste Space in Turret: 0.348 m^3 male / 0.296 m^3 female.*<BR>Much of waste turret space used by Commander's torso.<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:34:26 EST<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; i) why do the chemical energy rounds (some, but not all!) attenuate?<BR><BR>&lt;Nomad&gt;<BR>"Err-or!&nbsp; Err-or!"<BR>&lt;/Nomad&gt;<BR><BR>All MT HEAP &amp; HE rounds should have *no* attenuation.<BR><BR>&gt; ii) why does the (10mm) ARL have _way_ better Pen than a (10mm)<BR>&gt;snubbie,<BR>&gt;when presumably the latters round was optimized for HEAP pen at that <BR>&gt;projectile diameter?<BR>&gt; iii) why does the low velocity (yeah, I know, it's a GyroJet clone...)<BR>&gt;(10mm) KEAP round of the ARL have similar Pen to the (20/9mm) DS round<BR>&gt;from a (high Recoil) LAG?!<BR><BR>&lt;Nomad&gt;<BR>"Faul-ty.&nbsp; Faul-ty."<BR>&lt;/Nomad&gt;<BR><BR>This is why I like your 20 mm version.&nbsp; The larger projectile diameter<BR>with a (presumed) lower rate of rotation (and two more tech levels) would<BR>give the 20 mm ARL the listed HEAP penetration.&nbsp; The KEAP round does seem<BR>overly...optimistic.&nbsp; How about a KEAP PV of 4/8/4, kinda like the accel-<BR>erator rifle?&nbsp; How about no KEAP rounds, only explosive or gas rounds?<BR><BR>&lt;Nomad&gt;<BR>"Must Ster-ril-lize..."<BR>&lt;/Nomad&gt;<BR><BR>Ludowick &lt;Having a weird fantasy involving Persis Khambatta, a "Mr. <BR>Coffee" machine, and a giant bulldozer...for some reason...&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:37:16 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches (Was: Nobles for Loren)<BR><BR>The way this is done in the USN is that rear admirals typically command<BR>smaller groups of organizations.&nbsp; Among the afloat units they typically<BR>command are Cruiser-Destroyer and Carrier Battle groups.<BR><BR>There are approcximately six carrier groups per fleet (2nd,-Lant,<BR>3rd-EastPac, 7th-WestPac.<BR><BR>Sixth Fleet (the Med) and 5th Fleet (Arabian Gulf receive forward deployed<BR>forces on a temporary basis.<BR>These fleets are normally commanded by 3-star admirals (vice-admirals)<BR><BR>The shore establishment comands such as Commander, Naval Surfac Forces<BR>Atlantic (COMNAVSURFLANT) are typically Rear Admirals (Upper Half) with some<BR>variation (a few Vice Admirals here and there).<BR><BR>I would suggest that as established, the 3I's naval command structure seems<BR>too light at the top.&nbsp; This is because the canonical ranks use functional<BR>vice seniority based names.<BR><BR>To deals with this, lets assume that each Sector is actually commanded by a<BR>Grand Admiral (e.g. Olav or Arbellatra). Subordinate to him/her would be the<BR>Sector Admirals who would adjudicate major issues governing defense of<BR>various stratgic regions of the sector.&nbsp; Beneath the SADM's would be the<BR>numbered fleet (SubSector) admirals apportioned one per numbered (regular<BR>and reserve) fleet. The commodores would actually be in command of task<BR>groups within these fleets.<BR><BR>The USN operational hierarchy presently looks something like&nbsp; this:<BR><BR>Oceanic (Coastal) Fleet<BR>ADM<BR>Numbered Fleet (i.e. 7th fleet)<BR>VADM<BR>Task Force 71 (first task force within the 7th fleet)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; RADM<BR>(UH)<BR>Task Group (71.1 first task group within task force 71)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; RADM (LH)<BR>Task Element (71.1.1)<BR>COMO<BR>Task Unit (71.1.1)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (e.g. individual ships, etc..)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CAPT<BR>or CDR<BR><BR>Translated to Traveller, this would look like<BR><BR>Sector Fleet<BR>GADM<BR>Regional Fleets (i.e. 7th Vengeance Fleet)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; VADM<BR>Numbered (Subsector) Fleets&nbsp;&nbsp; (TF 76-formed 1116)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; FADM<BR>Task Group (76.1 first task group within task force 7)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; FADM<BR>Task Element (76.1.1)<BR>COMO<BR>Task Unit (76.1.1.1)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (e.g. individual ships, etc..)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CAPT<BR>or CDR<BR><BR>Just some ideas.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:42:26 EST<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys &lt;long &amp; rambling&gt;<BR><BR>Many posts ago -- before the wall of ice swallowed Lomar, and the furry<BR>cannibal Gnophkeh came to stalk above the empty streets and ruined fanes<BR>of Olathoe -- Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I have run into a bit of a snag with the guns on the vehicles I'm<BR>&gt;building.&nbsp; Guns (CPR and MD) in Striker get very heavy beyond a <BR>&gt;certain point.&nbsp; <BR><BR>According to the figures I can find, Striker CPR guns are often a bit<BR>*light* compared to RL equivalents (not always; they tend to be light<BR>for high &amp; hyper velocity guns, but are sometimes too heavy for low<BR>velocity guns &amp; mortars).&nbsp; Note that most of the guns I have weight<BR>data for (without including gun carriage) are naval guns, which might<BR>have to be a bit more rugged than land weapons because of the maritime<BR>environment.&nbsp; I'm not sure of this, though.&nbsp; There should also probably<BR>be modifiers for TL, as older guns (WWI, 1920s) were usually heavier <BR>than 1930s &amp; 1940s guns (most of my data is WWII and earlier).&nbsp; The <BR>reappearance of smoothbores will probably have a big effect for TL 7+<BR>tank guns.<BR><BR>&gt;If I want to match the apparent capabilities of the 2300 guns, I am<BR>&gt;going to have to use weapons that weigh as much as the whole <BR>&gt;vehicles are supposed to!&nbsp; On the other hand, if I use 6-8 cm Mass<BR>&gt;Drivers, like the descriptions of the 2300 vehicles say, the weight<BR>&gt;is fine, but the penetration of the guns suck. <BR><BR>The big problem with high-tech guns under Striker is probably that the<BR>tables end at hyper-velocity guns.&nbsp; ETC guns &amp; MD guns (not to mention<BR>currently existing tank guns) should push the muzzle velocity limit up<BR>more.<BR><BR>Assuming that hyper velocity guns start at about 3000 feet per second <BR>(915 meters per second)*, and basing the PV bonus gained from increasing<BR>velocity on Striker's armor tables, I've come up with some tables to<BR>give Striker/MT guns velocity terms in real world units.<BR><BR>*The books that I've read seem to place hyper-velocity guns at this<BR>muzzle velocity or higher.&nbsp; Don't know if it has any official status.<BR><BR><BR>Armor factor increase per additional level of Striker/MT armor<BR>(derived from Striker's Armor Rating table):<BR><BR>+ 9 = 2.18 <BR>+ 8 = 2<BR>+ 7 = 1.84<BR>+ 6 = 1.68<BR>+ 5 = 1.54<BR>+ 4 = 1.41<BR>+ 3 = 1.3<BR>+ 2 = 1.19<BR>+ 1 = 1.09<BR><BR>So, AV 93 (3320 cm) is 1.3 times as thick as AV 90 (2560 cm); I did some<BR>rounding off, so it's not exactly 1.3 times as thick...and I think that<BR>Striker's authors did some rounding off when they made the armor table.&nbsp; <BR>I based the muzzle velocity bonus table on the values above.<BR><BR><BR>If Striker PV is linear with velocity then:<BR><BR>+ 30 = 19,680 fps / 6000 mps&nbsp; (FF2 maximum velocity for MD guns)<BR>+ 29 = 16,952 fps / 5168 mps<BR>+ 28 = 15,520 fps / 4731 mps<BR>+ 27 = 14,312 fps / 4363 mps (VRF gauss gun, approx.)<BR>+ 26 = 13,120 fps / 4000 mps<BR>+ 25 = 12,000 fps / 3659 mps<BR>+ 24 = 11,008 fps / 3356 mps<BR>+ 23 = 10,128 fps / 3088 mps<BR>+ 22 = 9248 fps / 2820 mps<BR>+ 21 = 8476 fps / 2584 mps<BR>+ 20 = 7760 fps / 2366 mps<BR>+ 19 = 7156 fps / 2182 mps<BR>+ 18 = 6560 fps / 2000 mps&nbsp; (FFS2 maximum velocity for CPR guns)<BR>+ 17 = 6000 fps / 1829 mps<BR>+ 16 = 5504 fps / 1678 mps<BR>+ 15 = 5064 fps / 1544 mps<BR>+ 14 = 4624 fps / 1410 mps<BR>+ 13 = 4238 fps / 1292 mps<BR>+ 12 = 3880 fps / 1183 mps<BR>+ 11 = 3578 fps / 1091 mps<BR>+ 10 = 3274 fps / 998 mps<BR>+ 9 = 3000 fps / 915 mps&nbsp; (hyper velocity)<BR>+ 8 = 2752 fps / 839 mps<BR>+ 7 = 2532 fps / 772 mps<BR>+ 6 = 2312 fps / 705 mps&nbsp; (high velocity)<BR>+ 5 = 2119 fps / 646 mps<BR>+ 4 = 1940 fps / 592 mps<BR>+ 3 = 1789 fps / 545 mps&nbsp; (medium velocity)<BR>+ 2 = 1637 fps / 499 mps<BR>+ 1 = 1500 fps / 457 mps<BR>+ 0 = 1376 fps / 420 mps&nbsp; (low velocity; howitzer)<BR>- - 1 = 1262 fps / 385 mps<BR>- - 2 = 1156 fps / 353 mps<BR>- - 3 = &lt; 1060 fps / 323 mps&nbsp; (mortar-like weapons; I'm guessing)<BR><BR>That's what I got.&nbsp; The velocity for "high-velocity" guns is a bit lower<BR>than what I expected, but the rest fit my expectations.&nbsp; If muzzle velocity<BR>is between two bonuses, use the LOWER.&nbsp; Will be useful for rating RL guns<BR>for Striker/MT.&nbsp; Table might be shaky at high end.&nbsp; I haven't tested the<BR>table against the AP performance of real guns yet (looked good for the<BR>PaK 40 &amp; 47mm type 1, though), and won't be able to compare the high end<BR>vs. real weapons.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>Assuming penetration is proportional to velocity ^ 1.21 (claimed by Nathan<BR>Okun's research on naval armor; see http://www.warships1.com/W-Nathan/) then:<BR><BR>+ 34 = 19,680 fps / 6000 mps&nbsp; (max. MD)<BR>+ 19 = 6560 fps / 2000 mps&nbsp; (max. CPR)<BR>+ 9 = 3000 fps / 915 mps&nbsp; (hyper)<BR>+ 6 = 2424 fps / 739 mps&nbsp; (high)<BR>+ 3 = 1961 fps / 598 mps&nbsp; (medium)<BR>+ 0 = 1579 fps / 481 mps&nbsp; (howitzer)<BR>- - 3 = 1272 fps / 388 mps&nbsp; (mortar)<BR><BR>This table seems to give too high a velocity for low velocity &amp; mortar<BR>rounds.&nbsp; The greater bonus for weapons on the high end of the table may<BR>be bad for game balance, too, making lasers &amp; energy weapons less<BR>practical than mass drivers -- either table might do this, though.&nbsp; I<BR>prefer the first one.<BR><BR>All we need to do now is come up with tables for mass, cost, TL, range,<BR>and power input, based on bonus number (+4 or +11, e.g.).&nbsp; The low vel-<BR>ocity, etc. terms could still be kept as a broad designation (ghod knows<BR>what to call weapons with muzzle velocities beyond hyper).<BR><BR>Extending the muzzle velocity table would make modest caliber MDs useful<BR>weapons in Striker.&nbsp; Under Striker, MDs are just like heavy, expensive<BR>CPR guns (with good ROF, if you've got power to spare, &amp; lighter carriages<BR>for towed guns).&nbsp; Now they could have some uses (at least the really high <BR>powered ones, or those with very high ROFs).<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:56:30 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: In-System Defense<BR><BR>At 16:59 -0500 8/11/00, "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I was wondering if anyone seriously thought about how <BR>&gt;defending a system<BR>&gt;from attack would be modeled.<BR><BR>I've had reason to think a bit about this for a BITS scenario that <BR>I've been preparing. I was looking at the Emerald system in the <BR>Marches (in the Jewel Subsector). This is a system which has a Scout <BR>Base, and a number of gas giants.<BR><BR>Once I started looking at defending the system against the Zhodani I <BR>realised that they are unlikely to even consider taking the mainworld <BR>originally? Why? Because the system life zone is within the stellar <BR>100D limit (this limit has been covered in CT previously - Tarsus or <BR>Beltstrike mentions it).<BR><BR>This changes the whole game - The Zhodani only need to secure a gas <BR>giant to obtain a J1 base from which to attack Jewel itself. <BR>Defensively, it's a nightmare. You have a static target (the <BR>mainworld) within the Jump limit, and a need to boost out from it to <BR>reach the outer gas giants if you want to interfere with enemy <BR>operations. Your only real option (if you don't want to risk severe <BR>damage to the mainworld itself) is to stage SDBs and interdiction <BR>sats around all the gas giants. The costs would be horrendous. <BR>Similarly, the Zhodani really just need to detach some escorts and <BR>tankron elements to work as a logistical base at the Gas Giant of <BR>their choosing. These will almost certainly have warning of a counter <BR>attack and should be able to break off...<BR><BR>I'm not sure what a real solution defensively would be - the odds <BR>seem to be somewhat in an attacker's favour.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:40:05 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Mike Linsenmayer" &lt;mlinsenmayer@symantec.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 8:22 PM<BR>Subject: RE: Planetary Firewalls<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm<BR>&gt; &gt; gonna steal that<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has<BR>&gt; &gt; FTL comms and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Just keep in mind that it's truly *trivial* for a ship to<BR>&gt; &gt; receive data<BR>&gt; &gt; via laser from a ground installation, and nor that much<BR>&gt; &gt; harder to go in<BR>&gt; &gt; the other direction. And very hard to detect either.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Which makes *bypassing* the firewall easy. Rthar like trying to use<BR>a<BR>&gt; &gt; firewall to isolate your corporate network when your<BR>&gt; &gt; employees can hook<BR>&gt; &gt; up a modem and dial out.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You can still monitor actual traffic. So you hook in, But now I see a<BR>new<BR>&gt; address, Location, what ever you want to call it, that wasnt there<BR>before<BR>&gt; or is not on my access lists etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip long and irrelevant info&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; So ya you can bybass teh Firewall, Dal in with a modem, but if you<BR>have<BR>&gt; good net security it will quickly be found out and the Imperial secret<BR>&gt; police will come knocking at your door.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -Mike<BR><BR>Only an idiot would go to the trouble of bypassing the firewall by<BR>conducting the uplink/downlink from a networked PC...<BR><BR>any sensible person would do it by using a standalone computer and link.<BR>Burn the data to holodisk (or whatever) and upload it to the global net<BR>from disk (if it was for dissemination, and not solely for your eyes<BR>only...)<BR><BR>Just like circumventing a modern firewall with data on a CD-R...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:19:42 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268<BR><BR>Yup...in case of an emergency all of NORAD's functions get shunted to seti@home...seti@home being a cover for putting processing capacity into all the PC's that request it...when the signal<BR>goes out the PC's lock onto server sites and start doing NORAD work...even if it's only the university computer labs there should be enough to kep them going for a while...<BR><BR>and yes I have seti@home....<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>Rob Myers wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Much as I love Battlestar Galactica, I have to ask why they couldn't just fly around the other side of the planet. :-)<BR>&gt; Knocking out the central defense computer would make more sense. Which is why no-one in their right minds would have a central defense computer. (Norad is a decoy, everyone knows that). :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; - Rob.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On Wednesday, November 8, 2000, at 03:31 PM, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --- Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;"The Guns of Navarone" would work well. A group of commandos sent in<BR>&gt; to knock out the meson gun battery that's the backbone of the planetary<BR>&gt; defense system. :-)&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Battlestar Galactica did just that about 20 years ago (I like to crib a<BR>&gt; lot from TV shows ... now, if I could just figure a way to work a Law &amp;<BR>&gt; Order episode into Traveller ...).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:26:18 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Question<BR><BR>&gt;From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>&gt;nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>&gt;as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>&gt;Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil? Or do we say<BR>&gt;someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?<BR><BR>See Supplement 11:&nbsp; Library Data (N-Z), The Imperial Nobility, pp. 34-37.<BR>Excerpts:<BR><BR>"The Imperial nobility is a narrow class of persons at the upper strata of<BR>society who hold, either personally or through their family line, noble rank<BR>from the Emperor.<BR><BR>"Nobility is acquired by letters patent (patents of nobility) issued by the<BR>Emperor.<BR><BR>"All nobility is part of the feudal system of Imperial government.&nbsp; Nobles,<BR>upon receiving their patent or upon confirming their inheritance when coming<BR>of age, swear continuing loyalty to the Imperium, to the Emperor, and to the<BR>Emperor's successors.<BR><BR>"Noble rank can be revoked by the Emperor, either personally or through the<BR>courts.<BR><BR>"All noble ranks within the peerage come from the Emperor.&nbsp; The ability to<BR>create knights and baronets, however, is shared with the archdukes of the<BR>Imperium.&nbsp; The archdukes, within their domains, have the authority to create<BR>knights and baronets, subject only to disapproval by the Emperor."<BR><BR>The foregoing suggests that there is no subinfeudation in the Imperium.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3273<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:32:47 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:32:25 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA06163;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:30:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:27:03 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA06064<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:27:02 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:27:02 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011090027.TAA06064@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3273<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 8 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3274<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: infeudation (was: Question)<BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: In-System Defense<BR>Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR>Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR>Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR>Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>the big toys that make the big noise...<BR>big toys that make the big noise, part 2....<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:33:15 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: infeudation (was: Question)<BR><BR>On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:59:44 -0500 (EST), Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Question for the canon counters out there:<BR><BR>&gt;Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>&gt;nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>&gt;as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>&gt;Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil? Or do we say<BR>&gt;someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?<BR><BR>I don't recall any indication either way.<BR><BR>[IMTU NOTE] I have always assumed that the Emperor is the font, but that<BR>the necessities of Imperial government allow for subinfeudation with the<BR>difference that, instead of 'the vassal of my vassal is not my vassal', the<BR>relationship is such that 'the vassal of my vassal _is_ my vassal', and a<BR>conflict in duty is resolved in favor of the higher infeudation.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:30:18 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:21:51 -0600<BR>&gt;From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Question<BR><BR>&gt;Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>&gt;nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>&gt;as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>&gt;Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil? Or do we say<BR>&gt;someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?<BR><BR>"The Marquis of Aramis: As an Imperial noble, the Marquis Leonard<BR>Bolden-Tukera of Aramis holds his patent directly from the Emperor,<BR>although the channels of allegiance provide (and require) fealty to<BR>intervening nobles between him and the Emperor. The Marquisate is a<BR>hereditary position which, on Aramis, has made him ruler of the planet.<BR>"The Marquis owes allegiance to the Count Knowln of Celepina (in nearby<BR>Rhylanor subsector), who in turn owes allegiance to the Duke of Rhylanor,<BR>one of several Dukes in the Spinward Marches.<BR>"The Marquis, as head of the feudal technocracy of Aramis, grants a variety<BR>of subordinate positions in city government to citizens of Aramis and<BR>Leedor in return for money, pledges of loyalty, and other services."<BR><BR>The Traveller Adventure, p. 35. (1983)<BR><BR>"Interstellar government begins at the subsector level -- on one world<BR>designated the subsector capital. the ruling figure at the subsector<BR>capital is a high-ranking noble selected by higher levels of government.<BR>This duke has a free hand in government, and is subject only to broad<BR>guidelines from his superiors. But at the same time, the duke owes fealty<BR>to the higher levels of government, ultimately to the Emperor himself." <BR><BR>Supplement 8, Library Data A-M, p. 8. (1981)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:44:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: In-System Defense<BR><BR>Dominic Mooney writes:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm not sure what a real solution defensively would be - the odds <BR>&gt; seem to be somewhat in an attacker's favour.<BR><BR>The solution is not to even try and defend gas giants.&nbsp; Maybe 'mine' them every<BR>so often to slow down invaders.&nbsp; Your average system has _hundreds_ of places<BR>a fleet can refuel (any comet or kuiper belt object has enough hydrogen to<BR>refuel an entire fleet), making defense of fuel sources a bit of a lost cause.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:57:01 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR><BR>Just so you know, the U.S. Navy recognizes "Commodore" as the official rank<BR>of a one star in "War Time Only". It is Rear Admiral (Lower Half) for all<BR>other times. I don't believe that it is handed out to "Senior Captains"<BR>unless they 1) are selected for promotion AND 2) we are in a state of war.<BR>The rank of Fleet Admiral (five stars) has only been awarded (by an act of<BR>congress) to the following WW II admirals; King (CoS), Leahy (CNO), Nimitz,<BR>and Halsey. No modern day admirals have ever been given this rank. The only<BR>U.S. Army five star award/promotion after 1945 was to Bradley who was<BR>appointed Chief of Staff in 1950. Douglas MacArthur was recalled from Japan<BR>to go to Korea then. Congress didn't feel it was appropriate to have a four<BR>star "in charge" of a five star. Bradley's war record certainly didn't hurt<BR>him and he was WELL liked by Pres. Truman. There have only been nine, five<BR>stars in U.S. History. You may find it interesting that the U.S. never had a<BR>four star rank before Black Jack Pershing just prior to WW I. A tad of<BR>trivia, Auther MacArthur held the rank of (Army) Captain for 26 years after<BR>the civil war. He had been a nineteen year old "Brevet Colonel" after his<BR>heroic charge (eighteen year old MoH winner) in Chattanooga, TN. He was only<BR>the thirteenth man to ever hold the rank of three stars in American History<BR>(excluding CSA generals). He was promoted to this rank before Pershing. D.<BR>MacArthur also was awarded the MoH (father and son winners) and was the<BR>sixth man in U.S. History to wear four stars back in 1930. D. MacArthur<BR>actually "out ranked" General Marshall at the beginning of WW II. That was<BR>later rectified by Marshall being awarded his fifth star before MacArthur.<BR>Hope this helps. BTW, I might have King and Leahey reversed, just can't<BR>remember the minutia anymore.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"Genuine Antique Person"..been there,done that,can't remember..<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 5:12 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Commodore is presently a position rather than a rank in the USN.<BR>&gt; Commodores are typically very senior captains who may or may not make the<BR>&gt; step up to the admiralty.<BR>&gt; I don't believe that they are considerd to be "flag" rank, although<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Rear Admiral Grade is divided into "lower" and upper" half<BR>designations.<BR>&gt; These are followed by vice-admiral and admiral. (3 and 4 stars<BR>respectively)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The highest rank (5-stars) is called "fleet" admiral and is eserved for<BR>&gt; wartime appointments.&nbsp; Ernest J. King and Arleigh Burke were the most<BR>recent<BR>&gt; holders IIRC.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -Dan Lane.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: &lt;david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:58 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;7&nbsp;&nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp; &nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0 (referred to as a Vice<BR>&gt; Admiral)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; This is probably an error in canon (gasp!) where Rear and Vice were<BR>&gt; switched.<BR>&gt; &gt; Santanocheev should have been referred to as a Vice Admiral prior to his<BR>&gt; &gt; promotion to Sector Admiral, and Elphinstone should be a Rear Admiral.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Note that the real-world ranks, in increasing seniority, are as follows:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Commodore<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rear Admiral<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Vice Admiral<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Admiral<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:01:05 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:46:16 -0500<BR>&gt;From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Retro TV and Trav (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I can see it now....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ---battlecruiser---<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; K&nbsp; I&nbsp; N&nbsp; U&nbsp; N&nbsp; I&nbsp; R<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -------------------<BR><BR>*That* was worth a good belly-laugh!<BR><BR>Not to pick nits (well, okay, I am): wouldn't a /Lightning/-class be a<BR>better match? <BR><BR>"Fleeing the Virus' tyranny, the /Grinding Starbow/ leads a rag-tag<BR>fugitive fleet on a lonely Quest... a shining planet, known as Dirt!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 02:32:57 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>&gt;nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>&gt;as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>&gt;Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil?<BR><BR>Yes. In _The Traveller Adventure_ the Marquis of Aramis is said to be the vassal<BR>of the Count of Celepina who is in turn the vassal of the Duke of Rhylanor.<BR><BR>&gt;Or do we say<BR>&gt;someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?<BR><BR>The two are not mutually exclusive. If the Emperor is the one who elevates Mr.<BR>Chocula to count and the Duke of Oil requires the Emperor's permission to<BR>exchange oaths of fealthy with Count Chocula, both can be true.<BR><BR>BTW. have you considered just what it is the Emperor is giving to his vassals in<BR>return for their fealthy? It can't be land like the European lords handed out,<BR>since much of the land in the Imperium isn't owned by the Emperor. My theory is<BR>that it's the power to administer the rights the Emperor recieves from member<BR>systems, ie. the power to collect the Imperial tax, to run foreign policy, and<BR>the like.<BR><BR><BR>Hans <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:20:58 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>Others have posted the requisite canon cites; it seems clear to me that<BR>there is no subinfeudation as such in the Imperium.<BR><BR>It seems equally clear to me (from things like the MT discussions of the<BR>Imperial bureaucracy and Naval command structures) that there are<BR>functional chains of command.&nbsp; If the Count of Chocula has (for example)<BR>been delegated authority over some portion of the naval forces assigned<BR>to the Duchy of Dundee then he must take the Duke's orders on naval<BR>matters even though he doesn't owe the Duke fealty in the strictest sense.<BR><BR>Meanwhile, IMTU there are scads of barons, baronets and such who owe<BR>fealty to the Emperor but don't occupy any position in the Imperial military<BR>or civilian hierarchy.&nbsp; Such nobles aren't in anyone's local chain of command.<BR>Their whole obligation of service to the Imperium rests in their fealty to<BR>the Emperor himself, which may in practice mean nothing if the Emperor<BR>never calls on them to do anything.&nbsp; I think I could argue from canon for<BR>this position.<BR><BR>Also IMTU the Archdukes are considered viceroys for the Emperor in<BR>their domains, so they can act in the Emperor's place and demand<BR>obedience from lesser nobles by calling on their fealty to the Imperium.<BR>I think canon says something like this, although at the moment I can't<BR>recall where.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:23:38 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; Sadly (or gladly) this is frequently how even 'professionals' are caught.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Think of it as evolution in action."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Now *there's* a thought. Picture what sort of tricks 4000 more years of<BR>&gt;"practice" will come up with for underground/revolutionary groups.<BR><BR>&nbsp; If an underground/revolutionary group has a better institutional<BR>memory than people like SolSec then they must be unbelievably good.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Oh, did I just describe the Illuminati...?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:55:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;And what the heck do you do with sewage in tall buildings? The image<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;comes to mind of "solid waste" hitting the main stack and falling <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;for a thousand feet before hitting the horizontal connection to <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;the sewers.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Kinda hard on the pipes. :-)<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;If you find out, let me know. Inquiring minds want to know.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I direct you to Cecil Adams' website, whereupon you will find his <BR>&gt;&gt;answer to the gripping question "When a toilet atop the Sears Tower <BR>&gt;&gt;is flushed, do the contents fall 110 floors?":<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_252.html<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Cecil Adams -- he answers the questions you *really* want to ask.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; An interesting answer. A briefer and more general example is the rule <BR>&gt; of thumb is to not have more than a ten story uninterrupted vertical <BR>&gt; distance. This of course assumes a certain strength of pipe. Even the <BR>&gt; standing stack of water Dean suggests supports the waste has weight. <BR>&gt; The pressure at the bottom of a pipe increases with height of the <BR>&gt; pipe. There are numerous recorded cases of buildings constructed with <BR>&gt; stacks with too long uninterrupted verticals or insufficiently strong <BR>&gt; pipes. Friends of my parents bought a condo in Vancouver. One day <BR>&gt; someone many floors up flushed a toilet and the pressure spike was <BR>&gt; enough for the waste pipe in the wall to explode, blowing off the <BR>&gt; drywall and flooding their apartment with sewage. The pipe wasn't <BR>&gt; flawed in any way, but it wasn't strong enough for the application.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ObTrav: Plumbing of all types can become quite exciting in variable G <BR>&gt; environments like space ships.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A good, but large, book covering all the interesting things in our <BR>&gt; buildings is Mechanical and Electrical Equipment for Buildings 8th <BR>&gt; ed. by Benjamin Stein and John S. Reynolds.<BR><BR>I recall a bit of plumbing "trivia" I came across. There's a rule about<BR>how long the hose on handheld showers can be. Why? Because of incident<BR>where folks were using them in a bathtub, dropped them in the water and<BR>got out of the tub. Which, inder the wrong conditions can cause the<BR>hose to act like a siphon, sucking dirty water into the supply lines.<BR>EWWWW!!!! <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:59:33 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: L. Sprague deCamp<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote (re: Arthur C. Clarke):<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Slightly too young is fair enough, but being British strike you out?!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What I meant was that, since he's British, I assumed his work wasn't <BR>&gt; introduced through the American pulp magazines (particularly John Campbell's <BR>&gt; "Astounding") that I consider synonymous with 'Golden Age' SF.&nbsp; If, in fact, <BR>&gt; he WAS introduced through those <BR>&gt; magazines, then I apologize (but he's still a little young to be Truly <BR>&gt; Golden Age).<BR><BR>Huh? He was old enough to be in the RAF during WWII!<BR><BR>And he was printed in Astounding, I'm just not sure if he was published<BR>before the war.<BR><BR>Another author that dates back that far is George O Smith. But I'm not<BR>sure if he's still around or not.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 22:46:46 -0500<BR>From: michael stasica &lt;stosh@sympatico.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR><BR>Matthew Bond wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Mike Linsenmayer" &lt;mlinsenmayer@symantec.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 8:22 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Planetary Firewalls<BR><BR>SNIP<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; up a modem and dial out.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; You can still monitor actual traffic. So you hook in, But now I see a<BR>&gt; new<BR>&gt; &gt; address, Location, what ever you want to call it, that wasnt there<BR>&gt; before<BR>&gt; &gt; or is not on my access lists etc.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip long and irrelevant info&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; So ya you can bybass teh Firewall, Dal in with a modem, but if you<BR>&gt; have<BR>&gt; &gt; good net security it will quickly be found out and the Imperial secret<BR>&gt; &gt; police will come knocking at your door.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; -Mike<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Only an idiot would go to the trouble of bypassing the firewall by<BR>&gt; conducting the uplink/downlink from a networked PC...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; any sensible person would do it by using a standalone computer and link.<BR>&gt; Burn the data to holodisk (or whatever) and upload it to the global net<BR>&gt; from disk (if it was for dissemination, and not solely for your eyes<BR>&gt; only...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just like circumventing a modern firewall with data on a CD-R...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Matt<BR><BR>Well if nothing else these actions are certainly going to be more group game<BR>oriented.<BR><BR>GM:&nbsp; "I'm sorry you can't burn that network from your relatively safe<BR>location on this ship of yours."<BR><BR>PLAYER:&nbsp; "Why not I have a skill in Computers of 4?"<BR><BR>GM:&nbsp; "The technobabel is here in these thick books on Network security, the<BR>short answer is the other<BR>five players in the group would be bored stiff for the next 30 minutes.&nbsp; And<BR>your ex-marine friend there<BR>wants to use his new 'fill in weapon here', on your character if he has to."<BR><BR>PLAYER:&nbsp; "Okay, lets&nbsp; uh lets raid a local high security commo centre I will<BR>do it from there."<BR><BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 05:00:08 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR><BR>Steven Bonneville writes<BR>&gt;Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;If you assume that rear and vice admiral are ranks above commodore and below<BR>&gt;&gt;Fleet Admiral (which I'm perfectly aware is contrary to the character<BR>&gt;&gt;generation system), then both Santanocheev and Elphinstone are quite well<BR>&gt;&gt;matched for the job they are said to have. A rear admiral would seem quite<BR>&gt;&gt;suitable for OIC Naval Intelligence for a subsector and a vice admiral is<BR>&gt;&gt;quite suitable for commanding a BatRon supported by several CruRons<BR>&gt;&gt;(essentially a Battle Group: smaller than a full fleet but more than a single<BR>&gt;&gt;BatRon).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In the past, my campaign has had "Rear Admiral" be included in pay grade O8<BR>&gt;and "Vice Admiral" be included in pay grade O9. The difference between the<BR>&gt;officers with those titles and the standard ones depended on their job.<BR><BR>That was what the erstwhile authors of the GT Imperial Navy book had decided on.<BR>I do not agree that it works. For one thing, vice admirals appear in several<BR>canonical references to have jobs that puts them at a lower level than Fleet<BR>Admirals (O8s) and for another, there are several references that makes it clear<BR>that vice admiral is a separate rank. <BR><BR>&gt;I've been thinking about switching this so that "Rear Admiral" is actually<BR>&gt;a senior Commodore (O7) and that Vice Admiral is a senior Fleet Admiral (O8),<BR>&gt;since Elphinstone's counter shows one star and Santanocheev's shows two.<BR>&gt;I'm thinking that Vice Admiral may be intended as "Vice Sector Admiral" by<BR>&gt;the Imperium.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Vice admiral Elphinstone commanded the 203rd BatRon+several CruRons. Fleet<BR>admirals command full fleets. Vice sector admirals would command several<BR>full fleets. Vice admiral Petroklev was OC/Jone Naval Base in 1100 [BtC]. Jone<BR>Naval Base would be under CinC 208th Fleet, making its CO subordinate to a fleet<BR>admiral. Vice Admiral Thurougood was OC/Esalin in 1119 [Challenge #41], again<BR>someone subordinate to a Fleet admiral. Vice admiral Vrin Tildaalin was put in<BR>charge of Regina Fleet, which was considered a bold move by Norris (Note that<BR>the last incident may not have taken place at all, since the account of Norris'<BR>deeds during 5FW as set forth in BtC contradicts previously published material<BR>rather drastically).<BR><BR>Still, even without Vrin Tildaalin, none of the examples of vice admirals we<BR>know of are in posistions that makes it plausible that they would rank above<BR>fleet admirals.<BR><BR>&gt;(In 5FW terms, the O7 officers would be commanding squadron counters and<BR>&gt;fleets with no admiral counter.)<BR><BR>Maybe it's just me, but I think the convention is to use the abbreviation FFW<BR>about the board game and 5FW about the historical event that is the 5th Frontier<BR>War.<BR><BR>&gt;Either way, the rank progression would then be:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Commodore -&gt; Rear Adm. -&gt; Fleet Adm. -&gt; Vice Adm. -&gt; Sector Adm.<BR><BR>My preferred solution is to revise the list of ranks a bit:<BR><BR>O8&nbsp; Rear Admiral<BR>O9&nbsp; Vice Admiral<BR>O10 Admiral[*]<BR>O11 Fleet Admiral<BR>O12 Sector Admiral<BR>O13 Grand Admiral<BR><BR>Commodores, rear and vice admirals would command squadrons of increasing size,<BR>admirals would command single-system fleets (all ships stationed in a single<BR>system), fleet admirals would command subsector fleets [**], and sector admirals<BR>multi-subsector formations.<BR><BR>[*] I know that there is no evidence for the existence of a just plain admiral<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; rank, but there is room for one and if we're fixing canon we might as well<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; do it propably.<BR>[**] IMTU I call single-system formations fleets and subsector formations<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fleet/Army forces, wherefore my O10s are called Fleet admirals and my O11s<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; are called Force admirals.&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>Hans&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:13:23 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>...<BR>&gt; &gt; i) why do the chemical energy rounds (some, but not all!) attenuate?<BR>...<BR>&gt;All MT HEAP &amp; HE rounds should have *no* attenuation.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Ahh, this is one of the "features" of Mega-Errata?<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;This is why I like your 20 mm version.&nbsp; The larger projectile diameter<BR>&gt;with a (presumed) lower rate of rotation (and two more tech levels) would<BR>&gt;give the 20 mm ARL the listed HEAP penetration.&nbsp; The KEAP round does seem<BR>&gt;overly...optimistic.&nbsp; How about a KEAP PV of 4/8/4, kinda like the accel-<BR>&gt;erator rifle?&nbsp; How about no KEAP rounds, only explosive or gas rounds?<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW, the standard LAG doesn't (IIRC) have a HEAP round, but it seems like<BR>a decent idea. Given that we have the ACR and LAG as high(-er) velocity <BR>weapons at recent TL's, I'm unclear why the ARL was ever given a serious<BR>KEAP round, but then I'm inclined to wonder whether the stats (esp. when<BR>converted to MT) were carefully enough considered (it is nice to critique<BR>w/o the danger of production deadlines interfering).<BR><BR>&nbsp; Given how sucky the basic accel rifle is, a long-barreled weapon using<BR>the snubbie "warhead" might be a nice idea, even if you limit Pen to 4.<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;Nomad&gt;<BR>&gt;"Must Ster-ril-lize..."<BR>&gt;&lt;/Nomad&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; Better watch the phrasing - the Daleks have mean lawyers...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:03:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm<BR>&gt;&gt; gonna steal that<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has<BR>&gt;&gt; FTL comms and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Just keep in mind that it's truly *trivial* for a ship to<BR>&gt;&gt; receive data<BR>&gt;&gt; via laser from a ground installation, and nor that much<BR>&gt;&gt; harder to go in<BR>&gt;&gt; the other direction. And very hard to detect either.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Which makes *bypassing* the firewall easy. Rthar like trying to use a<BR>&gt;&gt; firewall to isolate your corporate network when your<BR>&gt;&gt; employees can hook<BR>&gt;&gt; up a modem and dial out.<BR><BR>&gt; You can still monitor actual traffic. So you hook in, But now I see a new<BR>&gt; address, Location, what ever you want to call it, that wasnt there before<BR>&gt; or is not on my access lists etc.<BR><BR>Only if the traffic goes thru one of your routers!<BR><BR>That's one of the reasons I'm still in Fidonet. Most nodes *still* have<BR>a phone number and you can *directly* deliver data between such nodes<BR>without it touching the Internet. <BR><BR>In fact, Fidonet was rather important during the attempted coup in the<BR>USSR. Whenever an exchange was "secured" so that long distance calls<BR>couldn't be made from it, "hubs" in that exchange would just tell their<BR>system to route via a *local* call to another node in a different<BR>exchange that still had long distance access. <BR><BR>And even the nodes using the Internet do so by moving files between<BR>themselves in various ways. <BR><BR>So while we *can* use the Internet, it's just another transport medium,<BR>we have an *independent* addressing scheme. <BR><BR>So, if we were involved in something like that, no new node would show<BR>up to the planetary "internet". Instead, there'd just be data moving<BR>between nodes that have been there all along.<BR><BR>&gt; This address will get droped or get forwared to a trap or suger pot of some<BR>&gt; kind. Even if you spoof an address. If you send in an incoming echo replie<BR>&gt; when there are no echo requests, this may an advanced probe. Another<BR>&gt; possibility is that your address space is being used (spoofed) in a smurf<BR>&gt; style denial of service attack. If you see outgoing echo replies w/o echo<BR>&gt; requests you would do well to investigate. If you see a location sending<BR>&gt; outgoing ICMP broadcast packets with the source IP address not part of<BR>&gt; their own internal address space may well be launching a smurf attack.<BR><BR>Excuse me? "Echo requests"?<BR><BR>The way news and mail function on the internet doesn't involve anything<BR>like that. And Fidonet does things in another manner, and still doesn't<BR>use any such thing.<BR><BR>&gt; Another common misconception is that a firewall will secure your computer<BR>&gt; facilities and additional steps don't need to be taken. A firewall is just<BR>&gt; one component of an effective network security model. Many additional<BR>&gt; components or "layers" would also be inplace.<BR><BR><BR>I know. I've been doing this for a *long* time.<BR><BR>&lt;snip of lots of security stuff&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; So ya you can bybass teh Firewall, Dal in with a modem, but if you have<BR>&gt; good net security it will quickly be found out and the Imperial secret<BR>&gt; police will come knocking at your door.<BR><BR>Not if you do it right. <BR><BR>I was merely pointing out how data could get on/off a planet *without*<BR>going thru the "planetary firewall". <BR><BR>Transporting it around the planet requires other measures. And<BR>"sneakernet" is still practical for a lot of purposes. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:32:29 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>&gt;From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>...<BR>&gt;'Cause I wanted to use the MT range bands for "to hit" chances. Mebbee I'll<BR>just<BR>&gt;give up and use Striker's three bands - Effective, Long, Extreme.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Ah, orthodoxy!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;FWIW, I've just looked up the ARL in MT for the first time (what, there's<BR>&gt;&gt;life after CT?!), and I'm not sure whether to be confused or ... perturbed?<BR>&gt;&gt; i) why do the chemical energy rounds (some, but not all!) attenuate?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Which ones are "chemical energy rounds"?<BR><BR>&nbsp; HE/HEAP - Pen should be (minor caveats) independent of velocity/range.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;ii) why does the (10mm) ARL have _way_ better Pen than a (10mm) snubbie,<BR>&gt;&gt;when presumably the latters round was optimized for HEAP pen at that<BR>&gt;&gt;projectile diameter?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Higher velocity. (I _knew_ I should have included the speed when quoting stats<BR>&gt;from the original article!)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Here's where the problems crop up - a HEAP round should have a Pen <BR>value totally independent (minor caveats...) of projectile velocity :(<BR>Ditto the HE.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;iii) why does the low velocity (yeah, I know, it's a GyroJet clone...)<BR>&gt;&gt;(10mm) KEAP round of the ARL have similar Pen to the (20/9mm) DS round<BR>&gt;&gt;from a (high Recoil) LAG?!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Do you mean "why does the low _recoil_ KEAP round..."? The round is high<BR>&gt;velocity, unless I'm completely mis-remembering.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Umm, yeah - I _was_ typing at 0430 local...<BR><BR>&nbsp; But then it starts getting weird again; a (loaded) LAG mag is 500 grams<BR>for 5 rounds, with a nominal 30 gram payload per casing - let's say that<BR>the box is 100 grams, so we're looking at 50 grams of propellant and casing<BR>(ignoring caseless...) pushing said 30 grams - from a high-efficiency<BR>projection tube.<BR><BR>&nbsp; The ARL puts 20 rounds into a 500 gram mag - even if it's shrink-wrap<BR>that's only 25 grams per fuel/hull/payload combo, and the initial boost<BR>is by definition not efficient. It's unclear whether the 15 to 20 grams<BR>per round indicated in JTAS #17 is warhead or the load &amp; fuel combo, but<BR>in either case there's no way that the HE/HEAP stats of an ARL should be<BR>as good as they are, let alone anywhere near as good as the same round <BR>from an 18 or 20mm bore of any muzzle velocity.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Nor should they probably be very competitive compared to a 9mm ACR?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:51:16 -0800<BR>From: "fadetozero" &lt;bempath@iserv.net&gt;<BR>Subject: the big toys that make the big noise...<BR><BR>does anyone have the design sequence for recoiless rifles in the various<BR>incarnations of Traveller?&nbsp; T5, preferably?&nbsp; (Alas, i have misplaced my<BR>FF&amp;S...)<BR><BR>jim<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:52:56 -0800<BR>From: "fadetozero" &lt;bempath@iserv.net&gt;<BR>Subject: big toys that make the big noise, part 2....<BR><BR>argh!&nbsp; and how to calculate the backblast zone and damage for the various<BR>incarnations of traveller?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3274<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb03.mx.aol.com (rly-yb03.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.3]) by air-yb02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 23:46:54 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 23:46:24 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA26800;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:44:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:43:41 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA26754<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:43:41 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:43:41 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011090443.XAA26754@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3274<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, November 9 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3275<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: In-System Defense<BR>Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>RE: Views<BR>More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: Virus<BR>Re: Arthur C. Clarke<BR>Re: In-System Defense <BR>Re: Virus<BR>Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>RE: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3274<BR>Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR>Re: Mass Drivers in Striker<BR>RE: Question<BR>Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR>Re: Hi altitude sewage<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:50:16 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>Loren asked:<BR><BR>&gt; Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>&gt; nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>&gt; as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>&gt; Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil? Or do we say<BR>&gt; someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?<BR><BR>Here's an interesting quote from p. 35 of _Traveller Adventure_:<BR><BR>&nbsp; "As an Imperial noble, the Marquis Leonard Bolden-Tukera of Aramis<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; holds his patent directly from the Emperor, although the channels<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; of allegiance provide (and require) fealty to intervening nobles<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; between him and the Emperor.&nbsp; The Marquisate is a hereditary <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; position which, on Aramis, has made him ruler of the planet.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Marquis owes allegiance to the Count Knowln of Celepina<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; (in nearby Rhylanor subsector), who in turn owes allegiance to<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the Duke of Rhylanor, one of several Dukes in the Spinward <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Marches."<BR><BR>It goes on to detail his role in Aramis' planetary government.&nbsp; I read<BR>this to mean that he holds his patent from the Emperor directly, not as<BR>a subinfeudation by Count Knowln of Celepina -- but that as part of the<BR>terms of his allegiance, the Count is his intermediary for orders from<BR>the Emperor under normal circumstances.<BR><BR>There is a case in which an individual noble can subdivide their total<BR>holdings -- the dispensation of existing subsidiary titles among one's<BR>heirs.&nbsp; According to p. 12 of _Imperial Encyclopedia_:<BR><BR>&nbsp; "Nobility is usually hereditary.&nbsp; Once confirmed by the Moot, a title<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; continues to be passed down to succeeding generations.&nbsp; Titles need<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; not pass to the first born (although this is the accepted practice),<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; and individuals with several titles may divide them among their<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; children as they see fit."<BR><BR>This also points out that the Imperium doesn't mandate primogeniture<BR>either, although the eldest usually inherits anyway.&nbsp; The Emperors List<BR>also shows that there's no gender bias; p. 10 of _Imperial Encyclopedia_<BR>suggests that Margaret I and Paulo I were twins, certainly that they<BR>were siblings.&nbsp; Margaret (the elder child) inherited first, and then<BR>when she died without issue her younger brother Paulo was made Emperor.<BR>I suppose that given that primogeniture is not mandated, certain noble<BR>houses could have a tradition that daughters only inherit if there are<BR>no eligible sons (or vice versa!).<BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:15:04 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: In-System Defense<BR><BR>&gt;From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: In-System Defense<BR>...<BR>&gt;The solution is not to even try and defend gas giants.&nbsp; Maybe 'mine' them every<BR>&gt;so often to slow down invaders.&nbsp; Your average system has _hundreds_ of places<BR>&gt;a fleet can refuel (any comet or kuiper belt object has enough hydrogen to<BR>&gt;refuel an entire fleet), making defense of fuel sources a bit of a lost cause.<BR><BR>&nbsp; If the OTU-assumed planetary siege (or success followed by moving on<BR>to the next system) occurs, then even a few SDB's lurking can incur a<BR>disproportionate effect by tying down enemy ships guarding refuelling<BR>logistics (and other?) vessels as the war continues.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Ironically, such threat games require that the force in being not <BR>get itself eliminated, which limits their actual _use_ (vs utility).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:13:26 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP Shotgun Rounds<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; What kind of person uses HEAP rounds on clays???&nbsp; Hmmm. OK, I probably<BR>&gt; &gt; would...&nbsp; :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The kind of person who armour plates 'em first? :)<BR><BR>...and fills them with gasoline!&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:19:38 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>on 11/8/00 8:13 PM, Steven Hudson at shudson@lightspeed.ca wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; FWIW, the standard LAG doesn't (IIRC) have a HEAP round, but it seems like<BR>&gt; a decent idea. Given that we have the ACR and LAG as high(-er) velocity<BR><BR>The LAG probably has too much velocity to make a HEAP round impractical.<BR>The required stand-off to allow the jet to adequately form would mean a very<BR>long projectile.&nbsp; And a rotation low enough to minimize jet dispersion would<BR>be so low as to inadequately stabilize the projectile.&nbsp; Sabotted KE rounds<BR>composed of materials like DU, OTOH, are relatively simple and probably have<BR>superior penetration.&nbsp; I've borrowed some round from Alliant for my LAG that<BR>are interesting.&nbsp; See the ammo section at http://www.travellerguns.com.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:23:45 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>on 11/8/00 8:32 PM, Steven Hudson at shudson@lightspeed.ca wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; ii) why does the (10mm) ARL have _way_ better Pen than a (10mm) snubbie,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; when presumably the latters round was optimized for HEAP pen at that<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; projectile diameter?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Higher velocity. (I _knew_ I should have included the speed when quoting<BR>&gt;&gt; stats<BR>&gt;&gt; from the original article!)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Here's where the problems crop up - a HEAP round should have a Pen<BR>&gt; value totally independent (minor caveats...) of projectile velocity :(<BR>&gt; Ditto the HE.<BR><BR>But higher velocities mean more stand-off is required for HEAP rounds.<BR>You'd end up with a ridiculously long projectile.&nbsp; Huge stand-off plugs are<BR>not a problem in open breach guns like RCLs and missile launchers, but in a<BR>repeater are going to be a problem.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:38:45 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>Mark Preston wrote :<BR>&gt; Indeed it has. Personally, I find it bizarre given all the HTML 3.x<BR>&gt; pages that are still out there. The least they could have done would<BR>&gt; be to accept that HTML 4.x was still acceptable IMHO.<BR><BR>Well-written HTML 4.x _is_ acceptable XHTML 1.0 !<BR><BR>It's only those slackers who don't put in ending tags and quotation marks<BR>around attributes that won't be acceptable anymore.<BR>&lt;grin&gt;&lt;/grin&gt;<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 00:36:25 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>Law<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Legal skill is the knowledge of the written and sometimes unwritten <BR>rules that govern a society. It may include either the ability to apply them, <BR>or the ability to evade them.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The higher the law level of a given society, the more important this <BR>skill is.&nbsp; Law skill is not confined to governmental organizations.&nbsp; <BR>Corporations, churches, schools, prisons, secret societies, and so forth may <BR>have rules and regulations that are considered binding on their members and <BR>may call for various penalties.&nbsp; Legal skill may apply internally as well as <BR>externally, to relations with the government and other societies.&nbsp; While many <BR>societies consider law as the promotion of some standard of&nbsp; "justice" or <BR>"fairness", in others, law is simply a substitute for violent combat, and has <BR>no more to do with "justice" than a barroom brawl or a mugging.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Most jobs involving law skill are as lawyers, but there are important <BR>variants which require lesser degrees of the skill. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CT does not have this skill: MT and T4 do.&nbsp; TNE combines it with <BR>Administration skill.<BR><BR>Related jobs<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Government officials.&nbsp; Those who can add leadership to legal skill often <BR>become lawmakers, judges, or law enforcement officials.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Legal clerks.&nbsp; Administrative skill is useful in handling large and <BR>complex cases.&nbsp; Those without administrative skill can only handle the <BR>smaller, simpler cases.&nbsp; In societies were law is a profession, lawyers may <BR>be assisted by legal assistants, secretaries, or paralegals, to assist with <BR>the administrative burden.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Commercial and tax law.&nbsp; Those who can add merchant skill to legal skill <BR>may either work for government as tax collectors and the like, or for <BR>merchants in attempting to avoid, evade, or otherwise reduce the amount of <BR>taxes they may pay.&nbsp; They may also work for or against some business <BR>corporation in legal disputes.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Legal instructor.&nbsp; Addition of instruction to law skill may permit either <BR>formal legal instruction, or informal instruction as a mentor.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Police officer.&nbsp; The addition of light combat skills to legal knowledge <BR>allows one to enforce the law on the uncooperative.&nbsp; Lawyers gain few if any <BR>job-related benefits from having heavy combat skills.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Intellectual property law.&nbsp; Lawyers who work in the field of patent, <BR>copyright, and trademark law need to have some basic familiarity with the <BR>respective artistic works.&nbsp; On occasion, visual aids are useful in legal <BR>cases.&nbsp; Writing skill is the most highly prized, since lawyers must often <BR>prepare written arguments and briefs, decisions.&nbsp; This skill also helps in <BR>creating laws and decrees.&nbsp; In some societies, artistic expression is legally <BR>regulated and restricted.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Medical law.&nbsp; Lawyers who work in the field of medical or psychological <BR>practice and malpractice need to be familiar with those fields<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Industrial law.&nbsp; This field tends to overlap with intellectual property <BR>law (patents and copy rights), and commercial law, but requires knowledge of <BR>some technical field, such as for instance agriculture, construction, <BR>robotics, or gravitics, in order to understand technical as well as legal <BR>requirements.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Transportation&nbsp; law.&nbsp; This field tends to involve knowledge of the laws <BR>and rules of the road, seas, or skies, as applied to operators, passengers, <BR>and cargoes.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Space law.&nbsp; This involves knowledge of the Imperial laws, rules, and <BR>regulations involving space travel.&nbsp; Such specialists may be found working <BR>either on space ships, on their behalf, or for the Imperium itself.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The social skills of carousing, fast-talk, diplomacy, intimidation, <BR>persuasion or language are often useful in the practice of law.&nbsp; They may be <BR>more persuasive in practice than the legal argument itself.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Lawyers may or may not make use of intrusion, bribery, and forgery, and <BR>streetwise knowledge.&nbsp; Usually not, unless they happened to be named Perry <BR>Mason...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Forensic specialists.&nbsp; A knowledge of scientific and investigative <BR>techniques is useful to those who rely on physical evidence in criminal or <BR>civil cases.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Physical skills are of little direct job benefit to lawyers and legal <BR>specialists.<BR><BR>Plot ideas<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Situations that call for legal skill include nearly all dealings in or <BR>with high-law societies.&nbsp; Accusations of criminal or civil wrongdoing <BR>(well-founded or not) also may require legal skill.&nbsp; A GM who wants to <BR>discourage shoot-em-up gaming could do worse than to give the shot-up victims <BR>(or their heirs) access to a battery of lawyers and Imperial or megacorporate <BR>connections. Characters who fight or flout the law should learn what it means <BR>to have a government for an enemy.&nbsp; If the characters are getting too rich, <BR>there are always jealous people who can find some pretext to file lawsuits to <BR>take their hard-earned or ill-gotten gains away from them.&nbsp; There is also the <BR>chance that the PCs can be legally aggressive and give grief to their <BR>enemies, or have the backing of a patron who will do it for them. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:21:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Question for the canon counters out there:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>&gt; nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>&gt; as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>&gt; Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil? Or do we say<BR>&gt; someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?<BR><BR>Historically, both "the vassal of my vassal is my vassal" and "my<BR>vassals are my vassals, but I have no authority over their vassals"<BR>have been used.<BR><BR>It all depends on the wording of the oaths (which are essentially<BR>contracts). <BR><BR>In the Imperium, I'd expect the oaths to be long legal documents<BR>publicly witnessed and signed.<BR><BR>And there are oaths going *both* ways, ie the vassal says he'll do X<BR>for his "lord", and the "lord" says he'll do Y for that vassal, failure<BR>of *either* to carry out their part invalidates the "contracts". <BR><BR>I expect that many of the "duties"/"responsibilities" are traditional,<BR>but *other* than tradition, there's nothing stopping a lord and "new"<BR>vassal (say the son of the deceased one) renegotiating the terms. They<BR>just have to *both* agree to the changes.<BR><BR>Handling fealty this way could make for interesting role playing. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:35:21 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Virus<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; We are required by the licensing agreement not to deal with certain <BR>&gt; topics.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Can you tell us what they are?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nothing legally prohibits me, but I'd rather not, as it will spoil the <BR>&gt; surprise.<BR><BR>Oh really....<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:11:31 -0800<BR>From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Arthur C. Clarke<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; wrote:u write:<BR>&gt; Huh? He was old enough to be in the RAF during WWII!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And he was printed in Astounding, I'm just not sure if he was published<BR>&gt; before the war.<BR>&gt;<BR>I don't want to belabor this too much, so I did a little checking:&nbsp; Arthur<BR>Clarke was born in 1917, which makes him older than Asimov, but about a<BR>decade younger than most of the other Golden Age authors (Asimov, first<BR>published as a teenager, seems somewhat anomalous).&nbsp; The earliest copyright<BR>dates on any stories in "Expedition to Earth" and "Reach for Tomorrow"<BR>(Clarke's first two story collections) are both 1946 -- while it's possible,<BR>even likely, that he was writing SF well before then, evidence at hand seems<BR>to suggest none of it was actually published until after the War.&nbsp; (His<BR>first novel, btw, was published in 1952 (_Islands in the Sky_)).<BR><BR>Thus, ACC is borderline Golden Age: defined by birth year he's probably in,<BR>defined by earliest SF publication, he's probably out.&nbsp; But, either way,<BR>he's definitely among the last of an ever-shrinking breed.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>P.S.&nbsp; I just noticed the 'About the Author' afterword to "Expedition..."<BR>where Clarke mentions that he "edited, wrote for, and duplicated countless<BR>science-fiction 'fan-mags' and sold [his] first articles on space flight"<BR>before WWII.&nbsp; So it comes down to whether or not you consider<BR>fan-publication enough to qualify him as Golden Age (or, for that matter,<BR>even accept my "published before WWII" definition).&nbsp; I'm being way too<BR>pedantic about what was originally an off-hand comment (ACC still "seems"<BR>younger than the other Golden Age authors to me), so I'll give up now.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:17:19 +1100<BR>From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" &lt;NarellePark@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: In-System Defense <BR><BR>My approach to in-system defence (and indeed space combat as a whole), would<BR>be that it would be analogous to a combination of submarine warfare and the<BR>Network Centric Warfare (NCW) or Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC)<BR>concepts currently espoused by USN and others.&nbsp; That said, a key difference<BR>would be that the distances involved would lead to significant time lags in<BR>data collection that do not have to be considered in contemporary NCW.&nbsp; I<BR>would imagine extensive use relatively inexpensive passive and active<BR>sensors that would provide sensor feed via MW comms links (and at higher TL,<BR>meason comms).&nbsp; SBDs and defending ships would remain silent for as long as<BR>possible relying on sensor locks provided by these off-board sensors.<BR><BR>Similarly, fighters or drones would be employed by capital ships to increase<BR>the volume of space that they can keep under suveillance whilst themselves<BR>maintaining EM silence.<BR><BR>Indeed, one of the key features that ought distinguish armed merchant<BR>vessels from proper military craft should not only be their weapon, defence<BR>and ISR suites, but also their ability to integrate seemlessly into a NCW<BR>network architecture.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:54:16 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Virus<BR><BR>At 18:31 08.11.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; We are required by the licensing agreement not to deal with certain<BR>&gt;topics.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Can you tell us what they are?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Nothing legally prohibits me, but I'd rather not, as it will spoil the<BR>&gt;surprise.<BR><BR>Hmm, somehow I wonder, since the chances of seeing more on the <BR>TNE-storyline, i.e. the Empress wave, the Black Curtain, Virus, etc. seem <BR>pretty slim, dont they. So there probably wont even be a "surprise" that <BR>can be spoiled, right? So its a pity you have been asked to keep quiet, <BR>since that probably means the only person who could and maybe even would <BR>speak, doesnt. This is not meant to critize you, but just to say, that it <BR>is a pity.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:01:31 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>At 12:10 08.11.00 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;That would be the Ravashall Pulsar in Battlestar Galactica.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Traveller adventure: Law &amp; Order style<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A high passenger books passage on a tramp ship and for the first<BR>&gt;three days of jump shows up in unexpected and restricted areas and other<BR>&gt;evidence shows that he/she has been in other areas without being found. On<BR>&gt;the night of the third day he/she leaves a note and a bribe for the ships<BR>&gt;captain to be left alone until dock side. At dock side the passenger does<BR>&gt;not show. When the stateroom is searched, the body is found and the sight of<BR>&gt;it would make a Imperial Marine flinch. In step the law and a long drawn out<BR>&gt;investigation and trial reconstructing everything that happened during the<BR>&gt;jump. Everyone on ship during jump is suspect.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The PC's are given the job of investigation and prosecution due to<BR>&gt;some weird local law.<BR>Interesting plot. Do you have a solution handy as well?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:04:37 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Volker 'V.A.G'<BR>&gt; Greimann<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, 9 November 2000 7:02 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At 12:10 08.11.00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;That would be the Ravashall Pulsar in Battlestar Galactica.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Traveller adventure: Law &amp; Order style<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A high passenger books passage on a tramp ship and for the first<BR>&gt; &gt;three days of jump shows up in unexpected and restricted areas and other<BR>&gt; &gt;evidence shows that he/she has been in other areas without being<BR>&gt; found. On<BR>&gt; &gt;the night of the third day he/she leaves a note and a bribe for the ships<BR>&gt; &gt;captain to be left alone until dock side. At dock side the passenger does<BR>&gt; &gt;not show. When the stateroom is searched, the body is found and<BR>&gt; the sight of<BR>&gt; &gt;it would make a Imperial Marine flinch. In step the law and a<BR>&gt; long drawn out<BR>&gt; &gt;investigation and trial reconstructing everything that happened<BR>&gt; during the<BR>&gt; &gt;jump. Everyone on ship during jump is suspect.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The PC's are given the job of investigation and<BR>&gt; prosecution due to<BR>&gt; &gt;some weird local law.<BR>&gt; Interesting plot. Do you have a solution handy as well?<BR><BR>Hmm, murder on the Orient Starliner?<BR>Antony<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:16:14 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3274<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:57:01 -0500<BR>&gt;From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Just so you know, the U.S. Navy recognizes "Commodore" as the official rank<BR>&gt;of a one star in "War Time Only". It is Rear Admiral (Lower Half) for all<BR>&gt;other times. I don't believe that it is handed out to "Senior Captains"<BR>&gt;unless they 1) are selected for promotion AND 2) we are in a state of war.<BR>&gt;The rank of Fleet Admiral (five stars) has only been awarded (by an act of<BR>&gt;congress) to the following WW II admirals; King (CoS), Leahy (CNO), Nimitz,<BR>&gt;and Halsey. No modern day admirals have ever been given this rank. The only<BR>&gt;U.S. Army five star award/promotion after 1945 was to Bradley who was<BR>&gt;appointed Chief of Staff in 1950. Douglas MacArthur was recalled from Japan<BR>&gt;to go to Korea then. Congress didn't feel it was appropriate to have a four<BR>&gt;star "in charge" of a five star. Bradley's war record certainly didn't hurt<BR>&gt;him and he was WELL liked by Pres. Truman. There have only been nine, five<BR>&gt;stars in U.S. History. You may find it interesting that the U.S. never had a<BR>&gt;four star rank before Black Jack Pershing just prior to WW I. A tad of<BR>&gt;trivia, Auther MacArthur held the rank of (Army) Captain for 26 years after<BR>&gt;the civil war. He had been a nineteen year old "Brevet Colonel" after his<BR>&gt;heroic charge (eighteen year old MoH winner) in Chattanooga, TN. He was only<BR>&gt;the thirteenth man to ever hold the rank of three stars in American History<BR>&gt;(excluding CSA generals). He was promoted to this rank before Pershing. D.<BR>&gt;MacArthur also was awarded the MoH (father and son winners) and was the<BR>&gt;sixth man in U.S. History to wear four stars back in 1930. D. MacArthur<BR>&gt;actually "out ranked" General Marshall at the beginning of WW II. That was<BR>&gt;later rectified by Marshall being awarded his fifth star before MacArthur.<BR>&gt;Hope this helps. BTW, I might have King and Leahey reversed, just can't<BR>&gt;remember the minutia anymore.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>&gt;"Genuine Antique Person"..been there,done that,can't remember..<BR><BR>Wasn't there a 'six-star general,' the rank of 'General of the Armies,' <BR>given to Pershing?&nbsp; I may be wrong, but I distinctly remember 'General of <BR>the Armies' as being a dicrete rank.<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 08:18:48 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>"Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 12:10 08.11.00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;That would be the Ravashall Pulsar in Battlestar Galactica.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Traveller adventure: Law &amp; Order style<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A high passenger books passage on a tramp ship and for the first<BR>&gt; &gt;three days of jump shows up in unexpected and restricted areas and other<BR>&gt; &gt;evidence shows that he/she has been in other areas without being found. On<BR>&gt; &gt;the night of the third day he/she leaves a note and a bribe for the ships<BR>&gt; &gt;captain to be left alone until dock side. At dock side the passenger does<BR>&gt; &gt;not show. When the stateroom is searched, the body is found and the sight of<BR>&gt; &gt;it would make a Imperial Marine flinch. In step the law and a long drawn out<BR>&gt; &gt;investigation and trial reconstructing everything that happened during the<BR>&gt; &gt;jump. Everyone on ship during jump is suspect.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The PC's are given the job of investigation and prosecution due to<BR>&gt; &gt;some weird local law.<BR>&gt; Interesting plot. Do you have a solution handy as well?<BR><BR>A concentrated aqueous solution of HNO3 should do a good job of getting<BR>rid of the evidence, albeit with deleterious effects on the stateroom's<BR>furnishings and fittings.&nbsp; As a bonus, the liberated H2 can then be<BR>collected and cycled into the ship's fuel system.<BR><BR>As always, one should expect the players to come up with alternate<BR>solutions (such as H2SO4, NaOH, HCl, or H3PO4).<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:22:43 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:01:05 -0500<BR>&gt;From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:46:16 -0500<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Retro TV and Trav (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3268)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I can see it now....<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ---battlecruiser---<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; K&nbsp; I&nbsp; N&nbsp; U&nbsp; N&nbsp; I&nbsp; R<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;*That* was worth a good belly-laugh!<BR><BR>Glad you liked it! =)<BR><BR>&gt;Not to pick nits (well, okay, I am): wouldn't a /Lightning/-class be a<BR>&gt;better match?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Fleeing the Virus' tyranny, the /Grinding Starbow/ leads a rag-tag<BR>&gt;fugitive fleet on a lonely Quest... a shining planet, known as Dirt!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>I had considered it, but, you know, it just didn't fit....<BR><BR>- ----frontier---cruiser----<BR>H I G H&nbsp; L I G H T N I N G<BR>- --------------------------<BR><BR>or...<BR><BR>- --battlecruiser--<BR>ARRIVAL VENGEANCE<BR>- -----------------<BR><BR>Well, maybe they would have fit, at that. =)<BR><BR>Where the heck did they get the names for the Lightning-class ships, <BR>anyway?&nbsp; I can see the 'High Lightning' ships being named after minor human <BR>races, but... Bard Endeavour?&nbsp; Grinding Starbow?&nbsp; The stories behind these <BR>names would be fascinating for die-hard canon-trackers. =)<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 06:46:57 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Mass Drivers in Striker<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys &lt;long &amp; rambling&gt;<BR>...<BR>&gt;Extending the muzzle velocity table would make modest caliber MDs useful<BR>&gt;weapons in Striker.&nbsp; Under Striker, MDs are just like heavy, expensive<BR>&gt;CPR guns (with good ROF, if you've got power to spare, &amp; lighter carriages<BR>&gt;for towed guns).&nbsp; Now they could have some uses (at least the really high <BR>&gt;powered ones, or those with very high ROFs).<BR><BR>&nbsp; There's one other use, I suspect - howitzers; the weight reduction <BR>for MD ammo may not make strict sense, but it is a huge advantage in<BR>terms of presumed inter-stellar logistic burden. Range affects whether<BR>or not you can get the shells to a target, but more important given<BR>OTU point defense availability is having the ammo to get past PD.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:45:45 -0000 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question<BR><BR>Jon F. Zeigler wrote:<BR>&gt; Others have posted the requisite canon cites; it seems clear to<BR>&gt; me that there is no subinfeudation as such in the Imperium.<BR><BR>Not true.&nbsp; There *is* subinfeudation in the 3I&nbsp; albeit&nbsp; extremely<BR>limited:&nbsp; Archdukes&nbsp; can&nbsp; infeudate&nbsp; Knights&nbsp; and&nbsp; Baronets&nbsp;&nbsp; ...<BR>although these ranks are not "peers" they are still "nobles".<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:00:52 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR><BR>Hans Rancke-Madsen replied:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;In the past, my campaign has had "Rear Admiral" be included in pay grade O8<BR>&gt; &gt;and "Vice Admiral" be included in pay grade O9. The difference between the<BR>&gt; &gt;officers with those titles and the standard ones depended on their job.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That was what the erstwhile authors of the GT Imperial Navy book had decided<BR>&gt; on.&nbsp; I do not agree that it works. For one thing, vice admirals appear in several<BR>&gt; canonical references to have jobs that puts them at a lower level than Fleet<BR>&gt; Admirals (O8s) and for another, there are several references that makes it<BR>&gt; clear that vice admiral is a separate rank.<BR>[...]<BR>&gt; Vice admiral Elphinstone commanded the 203rd BatRon+several CruRons. Fleet<BR>&gt; admirals command full fleets. Vice sector admirals would command several<BR>&gt; full fleets. Vice admiral Petroklev was OC/Jone Naval Base in 1100 [BtC]. Jone<BR>&gt; Naval Base would be under CinC 208th Fleet, making its CO subordinate to a<BR>&gt; fleetadmiral. Vice Admiral Thurougood was OC/Esalin in 1119 [Challenge #41], again<BR>&gt; someone subordinate to a Fleet admiral. Vice admiral Vrin Tildaalin was put in<BR>&gt; charge of Regina Fleet, which was considered a bold move by Norris (Note that<BR>&gt; the last incident may not have taken place at all, since the account of Norris'<BR>&gt; deeds during 5FW as set forth in BtC contradicts previously published material<BR>&gt; rather drastically).<BR><BR>I should hang my head sheepishly, but I personally have trouble uncritically<BR>accepting GURPS material (BtC in particular) as canon for this purpose.&nbsp; :)&nbsp; <BR>Just so you know where my arguments are coming from.&nbsp; That leaves Elphinstone<BR>and Thurougood.&nbsp; The TNS story from 1119 that mentioned Thurougood, as printed<BR>in Survival Margin, doesn't actually say what he's commanding.&nbsp; It just shows<BR>him to be present at Esalin, and interested in Zhodani fleet changes. <BR><BR>As for Elphinstone, we know he's in charge of BR 203, some CruRons, and at<BR>least one AssaultRon (to hold the 85th Infantry Field Army) in early 1109.<BR>We also know that the wargame doesn't make him a great field commander (3/0).<BR>On the other hand, I think he's the only admiral besides Santanocheev (except<BR>Norris) to be mentioned by name in TNS during the war.&nbsp; It also looks like as<BR>the war goes on that his main job is to handle the entire Vargr threat, which<BR>could be a good place to put an unspectacular senior admiral since the threat<BR>isn't that major.&nbsp; (Also, the suppressing the Vargr threat does support the<BR>primary Imperial mission Santanocheev set himself, relieving Efate.)<BR><BR>Anyway, that's my take on it.<BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:14:59 -0600<BR>From: Chris Olson &lt;chris@pdaguy.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hi altitude sewage<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In a message dated 08-Nov-00 4:04:08 PM Central Standard Time,<BR>&gt; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; And what the heck do you do with sewage in tall buildings? The image<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; comes to mind of "solid waste" hitting the main stack and falling for a<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; thousand feet before hitting the horizontal connection to the sewers.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; Kinda hard on the pipes. :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; If you find out, let me know. Inquiring minds want to know.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Cecil Adams (The Straight Dope) answered this question in glorious detail<BR>&gt; several years ago.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; LKW<BR><BR>OK, I went and looked onthe straight dope site and I can't find the question,<BR>let alone the answer.&nbsp; WHat topic do I search for it under?<BR><BR>Chris Olson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3275<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg05.mx.aol.com (rly-yg05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.5]) by air-yg02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:12:49 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:11:59 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA81496;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:09:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:09:38 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA81458<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:09:38 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:09:38 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011091609.LAA81458@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3275<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, November 9 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3276<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Question<BR>Re: Ivanova<BR>Re: Sayat<BR>Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR>RE: Movies<BR>Re: Arthur C. Clarke (was L. Sprague deCamp)<BR>Re: Book Reviews<BR>Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>Re: Book Reviews (Re: to Mexal's post)<BR>RE: Views<BR>Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR>NASA - Gravity Shield Generator<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Ground Forces arrives!<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3274<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:33:39 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: RE: Question<BR><BR>I sit corrected.<BR><BR>- -----<BR>Jon F. Zeigler<BR>JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>jon.zeigler@raba.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:38:46 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ivanova<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; On that note, are any other TMLers planning to go to Exoticon 3.1415 in<BR>&gt; &gt; New Orleans this year?&nbsp; Claudia Christian is one of the guests this<BR>&gt; &gt; year.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; The dates are 17-19 November 2000.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sorry, I'll be at OryCon here in Portland then.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; BTW, shouldn't that be "3.1416"? After all, truncating is bad...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 3.141592654....<BR><BR>It took me a while to find it, but the official e-newsletter from<BR>Exoticon does indeed truncate pi as 3.1415:<BR><BR>**begin quote**<BR><BR>EXOTICON 3.1415: The Final Temptation of WHIP TV<BR>November 17, 18, 19, 2000<BR>http://www.exoticon.net<BR><BR>Radisson Hotel, New Orleans<BR>November 17-19, 2000<BR><BR>(...a luxury hotel and national historical landmark located across the<BR>street from the legendary French Quarter)<BR><BR>**end quote**<BR><BR>From the site:<BR><BR>"...[We] founded Whip-TV with a cool concept - we were a con video room<BR>that showed cult movies under the guise of a renegade UHF station. To<BR>this day, some people believe that we were a real station, located at<BR>3.1415 on your dial. No, really. They bought that."<BR><BR>Presumably they deliberately and with mirth aforethought truncated the<BR>value of pi.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:55:17 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sayat<BR><BR>Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Sayat<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Loren : So if we can get it past the censors, you will put it into<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; GT:Humaniti , right ? Do we have a deal ?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Nope. Depends purely on what their write-up looks like, what kind of room<BR>&gt; I<BR>&gt; &gt; have, etc. -- I cannot clear anything in advance.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thats fair. How many words would you like ?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I am thinking about leading in with the Hengabar piece, following it up with<BR>&gt; a couple of different perspectives (eg re-writing Kenji's stuff that Eris<BR>&gt; re-posted as a 3I sociologist), and ending with a couple of adventure seeds.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Then we do the 'Sayat as PCs' bit.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; When would you like a draft by ?<BR>&gt; <BR>BTW, here's the link from THUDDD 8 that describes the Sayat entry:<BR><BR>http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/t8_sayat.html<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:27:50 -0700 <BR>From: Cliff Linehan &lt;clinehan@sfamipec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:01:31 +0100 From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann"<BR>&lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Traveller adventure: Law &amp; Order style<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A high passenger books passage on a tramp ship and for the first<BR>&gt;&gt;three days of jump shows up in unexpected and restricted areas and other<BR>&gt;&gt;evidence shows that he/she has been in other areas without being found. On<BR>&gt;&gt;the night of the third day he/she leaves a note and a bribe for the ships<BR>&gt;&gt;captain to be left alone until dock side. At dock side the passenger does<BR>&gt;&gt;not show. When the stateroom is searched, the body is found and the sight<BR>of<BR>&gt;&gt;it would make a Imperial Marine flinch. In step the law and a long drawn<BR>out<BR>&gt;&gt;investigation and trial reconstructing everything that happened during the<BR>&gt;&gt;jump. Everyone on ship during jump is suspect.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The PC's are given the job of investigation and prosecution due<BR>to<BR>&gt;&gt;some weird local law.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Interesting plot. Do you have a solution handy as well?<BR><BR>No, the idea was a spur of the moment one.<BR><BR>However, It would not be unreasonable that the victim may have given cause<BR>for anyone in the crew or fellow passengers to have motive. The real<BR>question is why such a horrific death? Most people after three days of the<BR>victims wanderings would be more than happy that they stopped and remained<BR>in their stateroom for the rest of the voyage.<BR><BR>So as not to leave you hanging on a solution, here are a few possibilities.<BR><BR>1) Victim was killed because of a conspiracy by the crew and passengers all<BR>deciding to kill him/her. Ships records were altered and other evidence<BR>covered up.<BR><BR>2) Victim was being hunted for past crimes and one of the passengers is an<BR>assassin.<BR><BR>3) A hired assassin, on his way to a unrelated job, has a collection of<BR>exotic weapons that were discovered by the victim. The victim attempted to<BR>blackmail the assassin.<BR><BR>4) Ships engineer did it because some important tools were borrowed and not<BR>returned. The engineers background shows a trail of unsolved crimes with the<BR>same M.O.<BR><BR>5) One passenger is a serial killer that used the victim's odd behavior to<BR>assist in diverting attention from himself. It was not his first kill in a<BR>starship in jump space.<BR><BR>6) One passenger is a wealthy Baroness with a taste for "exotic fun", the<BR>victim pissed her off royally when he/she rummaged in her stateroom.<BR><BR>7) The victim actually did himself in as he/she attempted to get hi on some<BR>of the exotic lubricants that happened to be in the drive room, it does say<BR>right on the label that users must wear a space suit before using, vent the<BR>area to open space after use, and follow proper hazmat (hazardous material)<BR>cleanup protocols.<BR><BR>8) The captain decided to take matters in to his own hands and hooked the<BR>victim up to a main power conduit.<BR><BR>9) The victim had a flesh eating (literally) virus that causes odd random<BR>behavior for several days before death and severe rapid haemorrhagic<BR>necrosis during the post-mortem stage. The entire starport needs to be<BR>quarantined and the virus contained.<BR><BR>10) There is a stowaway on the ship that was discovered by the victim. The<BR>stowaway prevented the victim from reporting his presence on the ship.<BR><BR>Clifford Linehan<BR>http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:00:27 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>I had always assumed, as per the Traveller Book and Book 1, that J-o-T skill<BR>only gave level-0 in each skill. This seemed to me to make it a usefull but<BR>not unbalanced skill, although it seemed to indicate that multiple levels of<BR>J-oT were pointless. (To quote Bk 1: "Jack of all trades can be considered<BR>to confer skill level-0 in every other skill (but never skill-1)")<BR><BR>That is, until I was going through the Adventure Reprint of "Murder at<BR>Arcturus Station." There it is clearly implied (on pp. 40-42 and 46-47, the<BR>Narayanam and Baronet sections) that J-o-T gives a level of (J-o-T skill<BR>level) -1 in every skill, making J-o-T-2 equivalent to Electronics-1 and so<BR>on. Omigod, I thought--two pieces of canon are in direct contradiction of<BR>each other! What are the odds of that? :)<BR><BR>The "Arcturus" interpretation seems unbalanced to me on the face of it, yet<BR>at the same time I would like a rationale for skill levels in J-o-T greater<BR>than one. I have considered allowing J-o-T to be a "floating dm" similar to<BR>the MT tactics pool, but limited in usage--say, to one use per skill per<BR>session (or just one use per session), or by making each attempt<BR>idiosyncratic--you might be able to use J-o-T to fly *this* ship's boat, but<BR>have to roll again for the next ship's boat--and if you fail, you can't use<BR>your skill with it, ever.<BR><BR>How do other people on the list treat this question? And, as an aside, MT<BR>says that the skill only gives free retries, although I've always assumed it<BR>has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything) as well. Do other MT referees<BR>hold this view?<BR><BR>Fred "Confused" Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 19:01:15 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Where the heck did they get the names for the Lightning-class ships, <BR>&gt;anyway?&nbsp; I can see the 'High Lightning' ships being named after minor human <BR>&gt;races, but... Bard Endeavour?&nbsp; Grinding Starbow?&nbsp; The stories behind these <BR>&gt;names would be fascinating for die-hard canon-trackers. =)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I suspect that the story behind FI6349 Manacle Infrequent would have<BR>to be censored...<BR><BR>Stephen<BR>(My favourite is FI6373 Arbitrary Remora, although FI6400 Infrequent<BR>Hazard is a good name for a fleet intruder...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:07 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: RE: Movies<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;200011081202.EAA19791@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;And we don't have psionics.<BR><BR>&gt;Neither do loyal 3I citizens :)<BR><BR>Don't we?????<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:07 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Arthur C. Clarke (was L. Sprague deCamp)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;01107.235414.8j3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I doubt Arthur will move from Sri Lanka now. He seemed very comfortably <BR>set up, likes the weather, the surroundings, etc. - and can now keep in <BR>touch with fax/e-mail with the rest of the world. Also he is not very <BR>mobile these days :-(<BR><BR>He also has a continuing interest in the Technology Centre he's helped set <BR>up, which is quite a fascinating place.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:07 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;00a801c04924$c05944e0$c2045cc3@matt&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Yup. Ice Station Zebra was a Alistair McLean one... more suited to, say <BR>AGENT X or something than TRAVELLER.<BR><BR>However, just because TRAVELLER is a SF game, doesn't mean that all the <BR>adventures you run need to have an SF basis. Thrillers, romance, crime... <BR>all these things will still be taking place in the far future. I wrote one <BR>TRAVELLER scenario which was pretty much of a bodice-ripper of a romance - <BR>and another which was more of a thriller. Both went down well with the <BR>players.<BR><BR>But I usually spend air flights writing... or, on one occasion all the way <BR>from India to the UK, running a game of D&amp;D!<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:56:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: Re: Monitoring and crypto, was Re: Movies<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadly (or gladly) this is frequently how even 'professionals' are caught.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"Think of it as evolution in action."<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Now *there's* a thought. Picture what sort of tricks 4000 more years of<BR>&gt;&gt;"practice" will come up with for underground/revolutionary groups.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; If an underground/revolutionary group has a better institutional<BR>&gt; memory than people like SolSec then they must be unbelievably good.<BR><BR>Actually, revolutionaries and secret police "co-evolve". <BR><BR>One gets better at doing what they do and the other gets better at what<BR>fighting them. And given that many a *successful* revolution has<BR>spawned its own secret police, *and* attempted to "spread the<BR>revolution" to other countries, you get an interesting conflict where<BR>folks are both coming up with better techniques for hidden<BR>organizations with one hand and trying to ferret out such groups with<BR>the other.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:04:28 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Loren Wiseman writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Did GDW ever mention _specifically_ that lower nobles owe fealty to higher<BR>&gt;&gt;nobles? Basically, I'm trying to sort through the notion of sub-infeudation<BR>&gt;&gt;as it applies to Imperial&nbsp; nobility. Does Baron Vorkbeard owe fealty to<BR>&gt;&gt;Count Chocula, who in turn is a vassal of the Duke of Oil?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes. In _The Traveller Adventure_ the Marquis of Aramis is said to be the <BR>&gt; vassal<BR>&gt; of the Count of Celepina who is in turn the vassal of the Duke of Rhylanor.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Or do we say<BR>&gt;&gt;someplace that the emperor is the font from whom all blessings flow?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The two are not mutually exclusive. If the Emperor is the one who elevates <BR>&gt; Mr.<BR>&gt; Chocula to count and the Duke of Oil requires the Emperor's permission to<BR>&gt; exchange oaths of fealthy with Count Chocula, both can be true.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW. have you considered just what it is the Emperor is giving to his <BR>&gt; vassals in<BR>&gt; return for their fealthy? It can't be land like the European lords handed <BR>&gt; out,<BR>&gt; since much of the land in the Imperium isn't owned by the Emperor. My theory <BR>&gt; is<BR>&gt; that it's the power to administer the rights the Emperor recieves from member<BR>&gt; systems, ie. the power to collect the Imperial tax, to run foreign policy, <BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; the like.<BR><BR>It could be as "simple" as "you do these things for me, and if you run<BR>into any trouble with people under you, I'll provide backup to help<BR>keep them in line". Obviously, providing aid agains *outside* problems<BR>comes with being part of the Imperium.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:40:39 -0800<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>Fred "Confused" Ramen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; How do other people on the list treat this question? And, as an aside, MT<BR>&gt; says that the skill only gives free retries, although I've always assumed<BR>it<BR>&gt; has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything) as well. Do other MT referees<BR>&gt; hold this view?<BR><BR>I have always interpreted JOT as giving a temporary skill of&nbsp; the JOT skill<BR>level minus one, as needed to make an adventure move forward. So if your<BR>pilot dies suddenly due to &lt;insert relevant plot device&gt;, your guy with JOT<BR>can take over the controls and perhaps land safely. The landing may not be<BR>as confortable as you would get with Pilot-1 or higher, and you may violate<BR>all sorts of rules and regulations with potentially annoying repercussions<BR>later, but you have a chance of surviving. Because of the rough and<BR>unpolished nature of the JOT skill application, it's generally not useful<BR>for qualifying a character for a job, but it's very effective at saving them<BR>in a pinch.<BR><BR>On the other hand, if adversaries also have JOT skill, they should be<BR>allowed to use it in the same way against players.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:57:22 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>"Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 12:10 08.11.00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Traveller adventure: Law &amp; Order style<BR>&gt; &gt;A high passenger books passage on a tramp ship and for the first<BR>&gt; &gt;three days of jump shows up in unexpected and restricted areas and<BR>&gt; &gt;other evidence shows that he/she has been in other areas without<BR>&gt; &gt;being found. On the night of the third day he/she leaves a note and a<BR>&gt; &gt;bribe for the ships captain to be left alone until dock side. At dock<BR>&gt; &gt;side the passenger does not show. When the stateroom is searched, the<BR>&gt; &gt;body is found and the sight of it would make a Imperial Marine<BR>&gt; &gt;flinch. In step the law and a long drawn out investigation and trial<BR>&gt; &gt;reconstructing everything that happened during the jump. Everyone on<BR>&gt; &gt;ship during jump is suspect.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;The PC's are given the job of investigation and prosecution due to<BR>&gt; &gt;some weird local law.<BR><BR>&gt; Interesting plot. Do you have a solution handy as well?<BR><BR>My ideas would be:<BR><BR>1) He was trying an experimental psi drug and it caused lethal <BR>telekinetic effects.&nbsp; At this point, you can go one of two ways (or <BR>perhaps both at once): Either the drug was legit, and the PCs find <BR>a series of odd scribblings warning about some danger (possibly <BR>mundane, possible not) which get increasingly incoherent and <BR>bizarre the longer he had been on the drug, or someone sold him a <BR>lethal psi drug in an attempt to kill him (some scribbled hint would <BR>help here also) and the PCs end up tracking down the killer.<BR><BR>2) He was sneaking around the ship checking on an illegal animal <BR>he was importing.&nbsp; Unfortunately, there were good reasons why the <BR>animal was illegal and it killed him.&nbsp; Now, the animal is loose <BR>somewhere on the ship...<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:02:51 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews (Re: to Mexal's post)<BR><BR>What was the plot to the "bodice-ripper?&nbsp; Sounds interesting.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 17:41:03 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Views<BR><BR>True, except HTML&nbsp; 4.0 accepts lower-case tags like <A href="http://..../" title=http://..../></A><BR>but XHTML doesn't - which is why I think its silly.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt<BR>&gt; Sent: 09 November 2000 05:39<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Views<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mark Preston wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; Indeed it has. Personally, I find it bizarre given all<BR>&gt; the HTML 3.x<BR>&gt; &gt; pages that are still out there. The least they could have<BR>&gt; done would<BR>&gt; &gt; be to accept that HTML 4.x was still acceptable IMHO.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well-written HTML 4.x _is_ acceptable XHTML 1.0 !<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's only those slackers who don't put in ending tags and<BR>&gt; quotation marks<BR>&gt; around attributes that won't be acceptable anymore.<BR>&gt; &lt;grin&gt;&lt;/grin&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Frankie<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:27:24 -0800<BR>From: "Mike Linsenmayer" &lt;mlinsenmayer@symantec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Ooh! Good one! Nothing canon to support it (AFAIK), but I'm<BR>&gt;&gt; gonna steal that<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; for my own, non-Trav SciFi background if that's OK (it has<BR>&gt;&gt; FTL comms and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyberdecks....and now Planetary Firewalls :)&nbsp; )<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Just keep in mind that it's truly *trivial* for a ship to<BR>&gt;&gt; receive data<BR>&gt;&gt; via laser from a ground installation, and nor that much<BR>&gt;&gt; harder to go in<BR>&gt;&gt; the other direction. And very hard to detect either.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Which makes *bypassing* the firewall easy. Rthar like trying to use a<BR>&gt;&gt; firewall to isolate your corporate network when your<BR>&gt;&gt; employees can hook<BR>&gt;&gt; up a modem and dial out.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; You can still monitor actual traffic. So you hook in, But now I see a<BR>new<BR>&gt;&gt; address, Location, what ever you want to call it, that wasnt there<BR>before<BR>&gt;&gt; or is not on my access lists etc.<BR><BR>&gt;Only if the traffic goes thru one of your routers!<BR><BR>&lt;Snip stuff here about USSR and FIDO NET)<BR><BR>True! I am trying to show how a Starship in orbit (lets say internet),<BR>trying to access the local planetary net (Lets say LAN)<BR>may be spotted right off.<BR><BR>Sure I can access my friends comp using a pier to pier connection over the<BR>phone line, but then again that's a "low tech"<BR>approach, what about "higher techs" where everything runs over the local<BR>lan/net (Like we are starting to do now with voice over IP, Online<BR>entertainment etc.)? On a world much more integrated, lets say like a large<BR>corporate lan, that may be that may be harder to pull off.<BR><BR>&gt;The way news and mail function on the internet doesn't involve anything<BR>&gt;like that. And Fidonet does things in another manner, and still doesn't<BR>&gt;use any such thing.<BR><BR>True, just trying to show how a a person jacking in from the local starport<BR>maybe seen as an intruder etc.<BR><BR>&gt;I know. I've been doing this for a *long* time.<BR><BR>Me to<BR><BR>&gt;Not if you do it right.<BR><BR>&gt;I was merely pointing out how data could get on/off a planet *without*<BR>&gt;going thru the "planetary firewall".<BR><BR>&gt;Transporting it around the planet requires other measures. And<BR>&gt;"sneakernet" is still practical for a lot of purposes.<BR><BR>But As I said above this all depends on the tech of the world / the law<BR>level etc.<BR><BR>Hey! how come Kiiriishii has a Laser comm receiver on his roof...? Aren't<BR>they illegal?&nbsp; ;)<BR>Of course this depends on tech level / law level etc.<BR>So on a balkanized low tech world it may be fairly easy to tap into the<BR>local data stream and send and receive etc,<BR>but on a high tech, ridged, high law world this may fairly impossible<BR>requiring great skill<BR><BR>Not on this subject but I saw posted sometime ago about Starship Software<BR>being pirated etc.<BR><BR>What about Hardware security keys etc. Or maybe as part of the Customs<BR>inspections you also show your current license agreements with<BR>your other ships papers......<BR><BR>GM: So Captain, where's the license for that new intruder security app you<BR>got there<BR><BR>Player: Well you see officer......<BR><BR>- -Mike<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------<BR>Mike Linsenmayer<BR>mlinsenmayer@symantec.com<BR>Enterprise Lab Manager<BR>http://www.symantec.com<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:34:18 -0800<BR>From: "Mike Linsenmayer" &lt;mlinsenmayer@symantec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: NASA - Gravity Shield Generator<BR><BR>Interesting<BR><BR>Supposed to lower weights by as much as 2 percent.<BR><BR>http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/anti_grav_000928.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 15:24:30 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>&gt;How do other people on the list treat this question? And, as an aside, MT<BR>&gt;says that the skill only gives free retries, although I've always assumed <BR>&gt;it<BR>&gt;has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything) as well. Do other MT referees<BR>&gt;hold this view?<BR><BR>I'm afraid that there isn't any "good" way to solve this problem without <BR>introducing a new task system to CT. T4 handles the J-o-T problem well, but <BR>not everybody likes its dice conventions, so I would suggest that you <BR>download the BITS Task System and just use the J-o-T skill like the regular <BR>skill, except increasing the difficulty by one. This way, it acts like a <BR>zero-level skill (or worse) until J-o-T-3, which is RARE in CT, especially <BR>in the Books 4-7 systems.<BR><BR>I hope this helps.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:31:35 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>&gt; I had always assumed, as per the Traveller Book and Book 1, that J-o-T<BR>skill<BR>&gt; only gave level-0 in each skill. This seemed to me to make it a usefull<BR>but<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; How do other people on the list treat this question? And, as an aside, MT<BR>&gt; says that the skill only gives free retries, although I've always assumed<BR>it<BR>&gt; has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything) as well. Do other MT referees<BR>&gt; hold this view?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Fred "Confused" Ramen<BR><BR>I use JOT as a sort of DM.&nbsp; If the character is attempting to use a skill he<BR>doesn't have, but has a related skill, I'll let him have level 0 in that<BR>skill.&nbsp; Higher levels allow for attempting more distantly rated skills.<BR>Ugly, I know.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:39:44 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Ground Forces arrives!<BR><BR>Fresh from the UPS man, Doug Berry's Ground Forces is here.&nbsp; So far it looks<BR>pretty good.&nbsp; I'll post comments after a detailed review tonight.&nbsp; Thanks,<BR>Doug, I'm saved from the ravages of TV tonight.<BR>- ----<BR>Tod Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:45 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;007801c04a7f$b4fdae40$1a75173f@dynamic&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I tend to give a character with a high J-o-T skill a better chance of <BR>figuring things out, or of fixing things. It also helps with improvisation <BR>and outright invention, especially if the thing which which you are <BR>fiddling crosses the boundaries between more than one skill.<BR><BR>The benefits are confined on the whole to techie things... I see it as a <BR>logic-based skill, the ability to look at something ostensibly unfamiliar <BR>and deduce how to use or(if lucky!) repair it.<BR><BR>On the other hand, I do recall a TRAVELLER game in 1982, Reading Games <BR>Fair UK, when a group of characters on a world of a tech level roughly <BR>equivalent to ours needed to get to the starport in a hurry. Nobody could <BR>drive a wheeled vehicle, and that was all that was available. Eventually I <BR>offered - on the strength of J-o-T-1 - to try. Suffice to say we got <BR>there, but most of the Porsche we stole didn't!<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:46:27 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3274<BR><BR>You are correct, but when he was given the title "General of the Armies" he<BR>still wore four stars. In the seventies he and George Washington were<BR>awarded six stars (officially it is an honorary rank). The five star rank<BR>carries the title "General of the Armies" and I can't remember what the<BR>title is for the six star rank. Black Jack was carried on the active roles<BR>until his death, the only man "officially" given that honor He was awarded<BR>the title in 1922 when he was appointed to Chairman Of The Joint Chiefs. You<BR>have heard, I'm sure, that generals never retire. That is a FALSE statement<BR>for U.S. Generals (or "Flag" rank), they are required by law today to retire<BR>at age 65. The last person that was able to get around that one was Admiral<BR>Rickover (sp) who stayed on active duty by a specific act of congress until<BR>he was almost 80. Washington was actually a one star general (the highest<BR>rank in the Continental Army) throughout the Revolutionary War. The only<BR>reason he was a general was because he was wealthy enough to raise his own<BR>army. Few people know that America's FIRST millionaire was George<BR>Washington. I think that I am one of the few people who do NOT consider him<BR>the father of our country. He was closer to American Royalty than the<BR>designer of our democracy IMNSHO. Thomas Jefferson is way higher on my list<BR>along with Ben Franklin as the real "Master Minds" of the constitution.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"Genuine Antique Person"..been there,done that,can't remember..<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jonathan McDermott" &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 9:16 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3274<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wasn't there a 'six-star general,' the rank of 'General of the Armies,'<BR>&gt; given to Pershing?&nbsp; I may be wrong, but I distinctly remember 'General of<BR>&gt; the Armies' as being a dicrete rank.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Cheers<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3276<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:50:30 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:49:28 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA09314;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:47:29 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:46:54 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA09269<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:46:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:46:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011092146.QAA09269@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3276<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3277</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, November 10 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3277<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Scenario's was; Re: Book Reviews<BR>Re: Pershing and Washington [was: Traveller-digest V1999 #3276]<BR>Re: Book Reviews (Re: to Mexal's post)<BR>RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>FT-17 errata<BR>Re: Murder aboard a starship<BR>Re: NASA - Gravity Shield Generator<BR>RE: Sword Worlds<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Re: HEAP rounds<BR>Hello from DC...<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>re: Mass Drivers in Striker (was Re: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Re: HEAP rounds<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: Admirals in the Imperium<BR>Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR>RE: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:57:25 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Scenario's was; Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR>One scenario that seems to come up in my games about once a year is similar<BR>to the movie "The Sting". Sometimes I spring it on the PC's and sometimes<BR>they set it up themselves....I'm also really big on Freddie Forsythe books,<BR>The day of the Jackal, The Dogs of War, The Odessa File, on and on. They are<BR>all great to setup and run at least once against a party. For the most part<BR>the TL is irrelevant. "Mission Impossible" scenario's are good to run too.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"Genuine Antique Person"..been there,done that,can't remember..<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Megan Robertson" &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Cc: &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 2:07 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;00a801c04924$c05944e0$c2045cc3@matt&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yup. Ice Station Zebra was a Alistair McLean one... more suited to, say<BR>&gt; AGENT X or something than TRAVELLER.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; However, just because TRAVELLER is a SF game, doesn't mean that all the<BR>&gt; adventures you run need to have an SF basis. Thrillers, romance, crime...<BR>&gt; all these things will still be taking place in the far future. I wrote one<BR>&gt; TRAVELLER scenario which was pretty much of a bodice-ripper of a romance -<BR>&gt; and another which was more of a thriller. Both went down well with the<BR>&gt; players.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But I usually spend air flights writing... or, on one occasion all the way<BR>&gt; from India to the UK, running a game of D&amp;D!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mexal.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:09:54 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Pershing and Washington [was: Traveller-digest V1999 #3276]<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:46:27 -0500<BR>&gt;From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3274<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Thank you very much for the -very- descriptive reply!&nbsp; That clears up a <BR>great deal about what I knew about the six-star general rank.<BR><BR>For what it's worth, I am given to understand that Washington did believe <BR>that the difference between a president and a king was only that the <BR>president was elected; he had quite a wardrobe and accourements such as <BR>carriages, horses, &amp;c.<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:09 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews (Re: to Mexal's post)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;009e01c04a8a$062368a0$31d30e18@chspk1.va.home.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>That bodice-ripper... erm, take one fairly poor and low-tech world, bit <BR>Ruritanian in approach, lots of gold braid and fancy decorations. One old <BR>boy, richest chap on the planet and that. Who as such chaps are likely to <BR>do, married a fresh young thing... and promptly popped his clogs, leaving <BR>said young lady with lots of cash and no husband. She falls for the <BR>handsome young 3rd Secretary of the embassy of a nearby world (not much <BR>richer and even more given to fancy uniforms and titles!). Off she goes <BR>with him... and her homeworld would really, really like her back (or at <BR>least, the money). Our intrepid players, being the only chaps in the area <BR>with a spaceship, are sent to persuade her to come home... any way they <BR>can *tee* *hee*<BR><BR>This usually results with at least one character trying to woo the wealthy <BR>widow :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:44:31 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>Fred "Confused" Ramen writes:<BR>&gt;I had always assumed, as per the Traveller Book and Book 1, that J-o-T skill<BR>&gt;only gave level-0 in each skill.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;There it is clearly implied (on pp. 40-42 and 46-47, the<BR>&gt;Narayanam and Baronet sections) that J-o-T gives a level of (J-o-T skill<BR>&gt;level) -1 in every skill, making J-o-T-2 equivalent to Electronics-1 and so<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;How do other people on the list treat this question? And, as an aside, MT<BR>&gt;says that the skill only gives free retries, although I've always assumed it<BR>&gt;has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything) as well. Do other MT referees<BR>&gt;hold this view?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have always restricted J-o-T skill to "hands on" skills such as<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mechanical, electronic, etc., rather than computer, carousing, or<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the like.&nbsp; For applications that normally call for another skill (e.g.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; repairing a radio) I enforce the usual penalty for having no skill<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (which varies depending on the character's background) and then<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; allow J-o-T level to be added as a DM.&nbsp; Thus, an ex-Navy with a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3 unskilled Electronics penalty and J-o-T skill of 2, facing an<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Electronic repair roll of 8+ would roll 2D-3+2 or 2D-1.&nbsp; OTOH,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for tasks that fall outside of skills (e.g. fabricating a lean-to),<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I would allow the full use of J-o-T.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:12:38 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;How do other people on the list treat this question? And, as an aside, MT<BR>&gt;says that the skill only gives free retries, although I've always assumed <BR>&gt;it<BR>&gt;has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything) as well. Do other MT referees<BR>&gt;hold this view?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Fred "Confused" Ramen<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>This is for you heretics out there:<BR><BR>Just use 1d100 (!), and have a base chance of: {[(Stat/5)+1]*5}+(Skill*10) <BR>{round down during division}, except in the case of Jack-of-all-Trades, in <BR>which case use the full amount of the skill's level, but only multiply it by <BR>five.<BR><BR>Once you've done this, multiply this number by Difficulty Multiplicand <BR>(whatever), as shown below:<BR><BR>Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Multiplicand (whatever)<BR>&nbsp; Impossible&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; x1/4 (round down)<BR>&nbsp; Staggering&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; x1/2 (round down)<BR>&nbsp; Difficult&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; x1<BR>&nbsp; Average&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; x2<BR>&nbsp; Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; x4<BR><BR>Roll this number or less on 1d100 to succeed.<BR><BR>This means that an average CT JoaT character (Stat 7, Skill 1) will have the <BR>following chances for success:<BR><BR>Easy: 60%<BR>Average: 30%<BR>Difficult: 15%<BR>Staggering: 7%<BR>Impossible: 3%<BR><BR>As compared to T4's Average chance of 28% for this character, this is about <BR>right, though with no bell curve. It seems to give an extra two percent to <BR>the chance to succeed.<BR><BR>Anyway, there it is.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:30:12 EST<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: FT-17 errata<BR><BR>Ugh.&nbsp; The penetration of the 3.5 cm gun should be 6/5/4, not 6/4/2.<BR>Mea Culpa.<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 15:31:59 -0800<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Murder aboard a starship<BR><BR>Cliff Linehan wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:01:31 +0100 From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann"<BR>&gt; &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Traveller adventure: Law &amp; Order style<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A high passenger books passage on a tramp ship and for the first<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;three days of jump shows up in unexpected and restricted areas and other<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;evidence shows that he/she has been in other areas without being found. On<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;the night of the third day he/she leaves a note and a bribe for the ships<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;captain to be left alone until dock side. At dock side the passenger does<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;not show. When the stateroom is searched, the body is found and the sight<BR>&gt; of<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;it would make a Imperial Marine flinch. In step the law and a long drawn<BR>&gt; out<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;investigation and trial reconstructing everything that happened during the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;jump. Everyone on ship during jump is suspect.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The PC's are given the job of investigation and prosecution due<BR>&gt; to<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;some weird local law.<BR><BR>I came up with a nice justification for making the PC(s) solve a murder <BR>aboard a free trader.<BR><BR>Have the body turn up 2-4 days into jump (the Steward was delivering <BR>breakfast and entered the cabin when no one answered). No one on the crew <BR>is particularly qualified to investigate (or perhaps they're suspects for <BR>one reason or another). <BR><BR>The captain has some reason to trust one of the PCs. The destination world<BR>has a notoriously slow criminal justice system which will, among other <BR>things, require that the ship be grounded for the duration of the <BR>investigation - months or longer, long enough to bankrupt the average <BR>merchant captain-owner.<BR><BR>If the killer confesses before the ship reaches port, the ship probably won't <BR>be grounded for more than a week and the captain has a good shot at making <BR>the next payment on the ship. Obviously the captain would like someone to <BR>solve the crime, confront the killer, and secure a confession before exit<BR>from jumpspace.<BR><BR>In my case, I assumed that the destination world has legal jurisdiction over <BR>the ship for purposes of this crime (because that's the first place the ship <BR>can stop and find an authority); you may have other ideas in mind (planet of<BR>registry, Jumpspace Law, etc).<BR><BR>If the PC investigator(s) _can't_ secure a confession, and if they've messed<BR>with the evidence at hand, they may be in a lot of trouble themselves when <BR>they reach port. <BR><BR>Depending on the killer's motivation, this can go a number of different <BR>directions - a quiet police procedural, or an "Alien" style picking-off-<BR>one-crew-or-passenger-at-a-time gorefest.<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:27:05 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: NASA - Gravity Shield Generator<BR><BR>Mike Linsenmayer wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Interesting<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Supposed to lower weights by as much as 2 percent.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/anti_grav_000928.html<BR><BR>Hmmm.&nbsp; Wonder if my National Guard unit can borrow one for our next<BR>semi-annual weigh-in (not an issue for me, but other unit members are<BR>sometimes borderline).<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:14:34 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Glenn said:<BR>&gt;They can't<BR>&gt;get through Saurus without taking it because it doesn't have a gas giant.<BR>&gt;Maybe it's Tavonni or Asgard; I'm not looking at a map.<BR><BR>Saurus is correct; Tavonni has _four_ gas giants, a bitch to patrol... ;-)<BR><BR>&gt;I've always assumed that that mercenary battalion is from Darrian.<BR><BR>I've a niggling suspicion that it is referred to as such somewhere in canon... I<BR>just can't find the reference at the moment. Rats!<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:29:13 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:19:38 -0800<BR>&gt;From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; FWIW, the standard LAG doesn't (IIRC) have a HEAP round, but it seems like<BR>&gt;&gt; a decent idea. Given that we have the ACR and LAG as high(-er) velocity<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The LAG probably has too much velocity to make a HEAP round impractical.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Allegedly the LAG has a mv around 500m/s, vs 800 m/s for the JTAS ARL -<BR>I'd be more likely to believe the reverse. The main point of a HEAP round<BR>for a LAG would be similar to that of the flechettes - an alternate round<BR>to make it a close-in system, perhaps a minimal propellant charge to zap <BR>armoured enemies in-doors/ship-board?<BR><BR>&gt;The required stand-off to allow the jet to adequately form would mean a very<BR>&gt;long projectile.&nbsp; And a rotation low enough to minimize jet dispersion would<BR>&gt;be so low as to inadequately stabilize the projectile.&nbsp; Sabotted KE rounds<BR><BR>&nbsp; If short-range it wouldn't matter; for long-range the standard KEAP round<BR>should be acceptable. I simply don't know where main gun rounds become<BR>impractical nowadays short of strange workarounds.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Given that a gyrojet round shouldn't be terribly short either, I'm curious<BR>as to whether the ARL/snub rounds are very defensible - OTOH, at least their<BR>actions shouldn't be very sensitive to projectile length?<BR><BR>&gt;composed of materials like DU, OTOH, are relatively simple and probably have<BR>&gt;superior penetration.&nbsp; I've borrowed some round from Alliant for my LAG that<BR>&gt;are interesting.&nbsp; See the ammo section at http://www.travellerguns.com.<BR><BR>&nbsp; More CT/Striker stats from the mid-80's;<BR>TL&nbsp; Weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cost&nbsp; &nbsp; Weight&nbsp; Length&nbsp; Mag.&nbsp; &nbsp; Notes<BR>8&nbsp; LAG&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 600 Cr&nbsp; 4.0 kg&nbsp; 900mm&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; high recoil<BR>A&nbsp; 2cm ARL&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 800 Cr&nbsp; 3.0 kg&nbsp; 750mm&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; low recoil<BR><BR>TL&nbsp; Weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; Ammo:cost/weight&nbsp; &nbsp; Eff&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; Ext&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Damage<BR>8&nbsp; LAG&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; KEAP Cr20/0.5kg mag 200m(8) 400m(7) 600m(6)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; HE&nbsp;&nbsp; Cr20/0.5kg mag 300m(3) 600m(3) 900m(3)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; flch Cr40/0.5kg mag&nbsp; 75m(2) 150m(2) +4 to hit&nbsp; 2<BR>A&nbsp; 2cm ARL&nbsp;&nbsp; HEAP Cr30/0.5kg mag 300m(9) 600m(9) 900m(9)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; HE&nbsp;&nbsp; Cr20/0.5kg mag 300m(5) 600m(5) 900m(5)&nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson, 2000.<BR><BR>The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:29:39 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP rounds<BR><BR>&gt;From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; Here's where the problems crop up - a HEAP round should have a Pen<BR>&gt;&gt; value totally independent (minor caveats...) of projectile velocity :(<BR>&gt;&gt; Ditto the HE.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;But higher velocities mean more stand-off is required for HEAP rounds.<BR>&gt;You'd end up with a ridiculously long projectile.&nbsp; Huge stand-off plugs are<BR>&gt;not a problem in open breach guns like RCLs and missile launchers, but in a<BR>&gt;repeater are going to be a problem.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Understood. But we still have the ARL with better HEAP Pen than the<BR>snub, _and_ superior HE to the LAG. The LAG shouldn't need HEAP, but the <BR>ARL's stats per MT are (AFAIK) so far out to lunch as to be laughable.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:51:46 EST<BR>From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>Subject: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>I'm resigning onto the list after being off for about 7 months...I was around <BR>for the Landgrab..great idea...I think it was Doug Berry that proppsed <BR>it...I'm not quite sure..<BR><BR>Just wanted to say Hello from the Washington D.C. area....Hope the <BR>discussions about the jump torpedo&nbsp; using ketchup loving Aslan lesbian <BR>pirates are still heated :-)<BR><BR>Let me ask as well...In all seriousness :-)&nbsp; Does anyone know when GURPS <BR>Traveller Starships is coming out? I haven't seen it being added to playtest. <BR>I know it should have been out by now...I remember it being slated before GT <BR>Modular Cutter...<BR><BR>Aslo...Is the new online JTAS worth subscribing to?<BR><BR>Thanks all!<BR>Mike<BR>ps hi laning<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:03:38 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>Qstor@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm resigning onto the list after being off for about 7 months...I was around<BR>&gt; for the Landgrab..great idea...I think it was Doug Berry that proppsed<BR>&gt; it...I'm not quite sure..<BR><BR>Welcome back, and Doug _did_ begin the TML Landgrab of 2000 (as a means<BR>of extinguishing a flamewar).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just wanted to say Hello from the Washington D.C. area....Hope the<BR>&gt; discussions about the jump torpedo&nbsp; using ketchup loving Aslan lesbian<BR>&gt; pirates are still heated :-)<BR><BR>Hmmm.&nbsp; I don't recall any mention of condiments favored by female Aslan<BR>in sensible shoes.<BR><BR>NEW FLAMEWAR TIME!!!!<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Let me ask as well...In all seriousness :-)&nbsp; Does anyone know when GURPS<BR>&gt; Traveller Starships is coming out? I haven't seen it being added to playtest.<BR>&gt; I know it should have been out by now...I remember it being slated before GT<BR>&gt; Modular Cutter...<BR><BR>Durned if I know.&nbsp; MAJ Thrash should have a better idea.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Aslo...Is the new online JTAS worth subscribing to?<BR><BR>It most certainly is worth a subscription!&nbsp; Heck, I'd probably pay<BR>$15/year just for Loren's editorials, thus making the other materials<BR>seem free.&nbsp; If you do end up subscribing, check the Amber Zone archives<BR>for Rob Prior's "Ye That Have Sown the Wind," my personal favorite<BR>adventure seed.&nbsp; (If you know anything about Famille Spofulam, you'll<BR>understand why I say that.)&nbsp; Should you decide to subscribe, just<BR>remember that my username is aurictech.&nbsp; (ISTR that subscribers who<BR>convince others to subscribe get a free extension, and I'd love getting<BR>the extra subscription time.)<BR><BR>Here's the JTAS subscription link:<BR><BR>http://jtas.sjgames.com/subscribe/<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:16:51 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: Mass Drivers in Striker (was Re: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Ground Forces and X-TEK Toys &lt;long &amp; rambling&gt;<BR>...<BR>&gt;If Striker PV is linear with velocity then:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;+ 30 = 19,680 fps / 6000 mps&nbsp; (FF2 maximum velocity for MD guns)<BR>...<BR>&gt;Assuming penetration is proportional to velocity ^ 1.21 (claimed by Nathan<BR>&gt;Okun's research on naval armor; see http://www.warships1.com/W-Nathan/) then:<BR><BR>&nbsp; There's a limiting factor that naval armour calcs won't likely consider -<BR>that at those sorts of velocities any incoming round will disintegrate<BR>on impact. While this should be rough even on armoured targets, the<BR>anti-armour effect will be nothing like that of dense-rod penetrators<BR>that our books refer to. IIRC (?), mid-century and presumably modern <BR>penetrators are all pretty close to the maximum cross-sectional density<BR>they can achieve without the round shattering.<BR><BR>&nbsp; ISTR one of the happy little debates on TravTech going into near-painful<BR>detail on the subject :&gt;&nbsp; As part of a debate on anti-ship KKM's it was<BR>shown that such impacts will model as cratering effects proportional to<BR>KE, but with much less depth of penetration than expected.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:49:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I had always assumed, as per the Traveller Book and Book 1, that J-o-T skill<BR>&gt; only gave level-0 in each skill. This seemed to me to make it a usefull but<BR>&gt; not unbalanced skill, although it seemed to indicate that multiple levels of<BR>&gt; J-oT were pointless. (To quote Bk 1: "Jack of all trades can be considered<BR>&gt; to confer skill level-0 in every other skill (but never skill-1)")<BR><BR>Nope. Because I distinctly recall reading in the rules that *all* PCs<BR>are to be assumed to have level 0 in any skill (or at least that PCs<BR>*never* get a *penalty* for lack of skill, which amounts to the same<BR>thing). <BR><BR>That'd make the above interpretation of JoT kinda useless, wouldn't it?<BR><BR>&gt; That is, until I was going through the Adventure Reprint of "Murder at<BR>&gt; Arcturus Station." There it is clearly implied (on pp. 40-42 and 46-47, the<BR>&gt; Narayanam and Baronet sections) that J-o-T gives a level of (J-o-T skill<BR>&gt; level) -1 in every skill, making J-o-T-2 equivalent to Electronics-1 and so<BR>&gt; on. Omigod, I thought--two pieces of canon are in direct contradiction of<BR>&gt; each other! What are the odds of that? :)<BR><BR>That's the way I recall JoT *and* why folks used to complain about it<BR>being too powerful. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:30:53 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>on 11/9/00 6:29 PM, Steven Hudson at shudson@lightspeed.ca wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Allegedly the LAG has a mv around 500m/s, vs 800 m/s for the JTAS ARL -<BR>&gt; I'd be more likely to believe the reverse. The main point of a HEAP round<BR>&gt; for a LAG would be similar to that of the flechettes - an alternate round<BR>&gt; to make it a close-in system, perhaps a minimal propellant charge to zap<BR>&gt; armoured enemies in-doors/ship-board?<BR><BR>Well, APFSDS from a LAG is only going to get more effective the shorter the<BR>range.&nbsp; An 500 m/s seems a tad low (due to a short barrel?) compared with<BR>the South African NTW-20, which manages 720 m/s<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; The required stand-off to allow the jet to adequately form would mean a very<BR>&gt;&gt; long projectile.&nbsp; And a rotation low enough to minimize jet dispersion would<BR>&gt;&gt; be so low as to inadequately stabilize the projectile.&nbsp; Sabotted KE rounds<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If short-range it wouldn't matter; for long-range the standard KEAP round<BR>&gt; should be acceptable. I simply don't know where main gun rounds become<BR>&gt; impractical nowadays short of strange workarounds.<BR><BR>See above.&nbsp; Really, the only reason to use HEAP in smaller rounds is where<BR>velocity is too low for good KE effects. In a SNUB weapon with a 150 m/s<BR>muzzle velocity, this seems to make sense (although I seriously doubt that<BR>10mm shaped charge would be practical).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Given that a gyrojet round shouldn't be terribly short either, I'm curious<BR>&gt; as to whether the ARL/snub rounds are very defensible - OTOH, at least their<BR>&gt; actions shouldn't be very sensitive to projectile length?<BR><BR>Well, the gyrojet round was a solid slug--no stand-off required.&nbsp; And it<BR>never did too well.&nbsp; No energy at short range and no accuracy at long range<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:39:07 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP rounds<BR><BR>on 11/9/00 6:29 PM, Steven Hudson at shudson@lightspeed.ca wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; But higher velocities mean more stand-off is required for HEAP rounds.<BR>&gt;&gt; You'd end up with a ridiculously long projectile.&nbsp; Huge stand-off plugs are<BR>&gt;&gt; not a problem in open breach guns like RCLs and missile launchers, but in a<BR>&gt;&gt; repeater are going to be a problem.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Understood. But we still have the ARL with better HEAP Pen than the<BR>&gt; snub, _and_ superior HE to the LAG. The LAG shouldn't need HEAP, but the<BR>&gt; ARL's stats per MT are (AFAIK) so far out to lunch as to be laughable.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>My copy of Mercenary doesn't make reference to any projectile for the<BR>Accelerator Rifle other than what appears to be rocket propelled ball ammo.<BR>Even a casual consideration suggest that HEAP is going to be improbable for<BR>a 6mm ARL or even a 10mm SNUB gun.&nbsp; Take a look at the cross section of a<BR>standard heat round--now shrink it down to small arm size.<BR><BR>KEAP on the other hand is relatively easy (and cheap).<BR><BR>Yes, I know that small arms caliber HEAP is 'canon'.&nbsp; But it will probably<BR>be easier to build a plasma gun, than manufacture an effective (and cost<BR>effective) HEAP round that can be fired from a small arm. Law of diminishing<BR>returns and all that.<BR><BR>As an aside, I found more info on the Argentine HEAP shotgun round.<BR>Apparently, penetration was so modest that it was deemed worthless.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:43:38 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>VonRammen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I had always assumed, as per the Traveller Book and Book 1, that J-o-T skill<BR>&gt; only gave level-0 in each skill. This seemed to me to make it a usefull but<BR>...<BR>&gt; has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything) as well. Do other MT referees<BR>&gt; hold this view?<BR><BR>One of the rule sets gave JOT-X the power to re-attempt a failed skill<BR>roll X times.&nbsp; MT, T4?&nbsp; I forget.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 06:12:59 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Imperium<BR><BR>Steven Bonneville writes:<BR><BR>&gt;I personally have trouble uncritically accepting GURPS material (BtC in<BR>&gt;particular) as canon for this purpose.&nbsp; :)&nbsp; <BR><BR>I can appreciate that, but I don't think I'm accepting it uncritically. Come to<BR>that, the character generation system with it's 10 ranks have some problems of<BR>its own, quite regardless of canonical references to rear and vice admirals.<BR><BR>1) I firmly belive that the space navy of an Imperium spanning 10,000 worlds<BR>need more than 10 command levels. Note that I say command levels, not ranks. As<BR>Chris and others have pointed out to me, one rank can cover more than one<BR>command level. However, if Fleet Admirals (O8) actually covered two or three<BR>command levels and Sector Admirals covered another two or three levels, the<BR>rules for promotion really ought to reflect that. They don't. So either way you<BR>look at it, there's something wrong with the CG rules.<BR><BR>2) I don't believe Grand Admirals are really suitable for ordinary Traveller<BR>adventurers (any more than Imperial dukes are). Adding a few extra ranks would<BR>at least ensure that it would be that much harder to reach that high. <BR><BR>&gt;As for Elphinstone, we know he's in charge of BR 203, some CruRons, and at<BR>&gt;least one AssaultRon (to hold the 85th Infantry Field Army) in early 1109.<BR><BR>As I said, a less-than-Fleet-Admiral's command.<BR><BR>&gt;On the other hand, I think he's the only admiral besides Santanocheev (except<BR>&gt;Norris) to be mentioned by name in TNS during the war.<BR><BR>He is the only one mentioned in the small sample of TNS newsbriefs that was<BR>brought in JTAS. You don't really seriously propose that those constitute the<BR>sum total of all TNS newsbriefs produced during the war?<BR><BR>&gt;It also looks like as the war goes on that his main job is to handle the entire<BR>&gt;Vargr threat, which could be a good place to put an unspectacular senior<BR>&gt;admiral since the threat isn't that major.<BR><BR>To me it just means that the entire Vargr threat wasn't all that big. As witness<BR>the fact that a single BR plus a few CruRons and assorted auxiliaries were<BR>enough to handle them.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:58:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Firewalls<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; But As I said above this all depends on the tech of the world / the law<BR>&gt; level etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hey! how come Kiiriishii has a Laser comm receiver on his roof...? Aren't<BR>&gt; they illegal?&nbsp; ;)<BR><BR>Such a receiver can consist or a photocell in a recessed housing, and<BR>some harmless electronics attached to it. Or use a webcam with some<BR>custom software.<BR><BR>&gt; What about Hardware security keys etc. Or maybe as part of the Customs<BR>&gt; inspections you also show your current license agreements with<BR>&gt; your other ships papers......<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; GM: So Captain, where's the license for that new intruder security app you<BR>&gt; got there<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Player: Well you see officer......<BR><BR>Actually, it's very likely that software is going to be stored on the<BR>equivalent of ROM cartridges. Given the slow rate of technical<BR>progress, it makes more sense to take *lots* of time (decades!) testing<BR>so as to find and correct all the bugs *before* release. <BR><BR>Then, having the software on the cartridge means that copying it is a<BR>bit harder. If nothing else, you have to take apart some other<BR>cartridge and have something that can "burn" ROMs. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:37:15 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>Antony Farrell wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm, murder on the Orient Starliner?<BR><BR>It's been done, Adventure 11, Murder on Arcturus Station.<BR><BR>Also as one of the plots in "Action Aboard" the FASA adventure based on the<BR>cruise star-ship "King Richard".<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3277<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-za05.mx.aol.com (rly-za05.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.101]) by air-za05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:35:15 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-za05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:34:36 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA51485;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:32:18 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:31:44 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA51438<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:31:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:31:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011100631.BAA51438@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3277<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3278</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/10/00 7:57:16 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, November 10 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3278<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: HEAP rounds<BR>Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3277<BR>RE: Retro TV and Trav<BR>RE: Ivanova<BR>re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>OT: Splort Warning (Spoiler for B5 Book)<BR>RE: Hello from DC...<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Seeking DAN WARD<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Sayat?<BR>Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:57:02 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP rounds<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:39:07 -0800<BR>&gt;From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: HEAP rounds<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; Understood. But we still have the ARL with better HEAP Pen than the<BR>&gt;&gt; snub, _and_ superior HE to the LAG. The LAG shouldn't need HEAP, but the<BR>&gt;&gt; ARL's stats per MT are (AFAIK) so far out to lunch as to be laughable.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;My copy of Mercenary doesn't make reference to any projectile for the<BR>&gt;Accelerator Rifle other than what appears to be rocket propelled ball ammo.<BR>&gt;Even a casual consideration suggest that HEAP is going to be improbable for<BR>&gt;a 6mm ARL or even a 10mm SNUB gun.&nbsp; Take a look at the cross section of a<BR>&gt;standard heat round--now shrink it down to small arm size.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Agreed. AFAIK, the accel is ball ammo.<BR><BR>&gt;KEAP on the other hand is relatively easy (and cheap).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yes, I know that small arms caliber HEAP is 'canon'.&nbsp; But it will probably<BR>&gt;be easier to build a plasma gun, than manufacture an effective (and cost<BR>&gt;effective) HEAP round that can be fired from a small arm. Law of diminishing<BR>&gt;returns and all that.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Yep. And some of that applies to really small (5 gram!) HE rounds too -<BR>how simple a fuze do you want if you're going to have that stuff snugged <BR>up against your rib-cage?<BR><BR>&gt;As an aside, I found more info on the Argentine HEAP shotgun round.<BR>&gt;Apparently, penetration was so modest that it was deemed worthless.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Believable; the 10mm ARL is highly dubious, but at least the snubbie<BR>could be retro'd into a larger bore weapon with somewhat heavier ammo.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 23:09:11 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:30:53 -0800<BR>&gt;From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Assault Rocket Launcher stats<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; Allegedly the LAG has a mv around 500m/s, vs 800 m/s for the JTAS ARL -<BR>&gt;&gt; I'd be more likely to believe the reverse. The main point of a HEAP round<BR>&gt;&gt; for a LAG would be similar to that of the flechettes - an alternate round<BR>&gt;&gt; to make it a close-in system, perhaps a minimal propellant charge to zap<BR>&gt;&gt; armoured enemies in-doors/ship-board?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, APFSDS from a LAG is only going to get more effective the shorter the<BR><BR>&nbsp; I suggested it as a possible low-recoil round (e.g. less propellant).<BR><BR>&gt;range.&nbsp; An 500 m/s seems a tad low (due to a short barrel?) compared with<BR>&gt;the South African NTW-20, which manages 720 m/s<BR><BR>&nbsp; The 500 m/s is per B:4, the weapon length is 900mm vs 750mm for the<BR>ARL (IIRC), and yes, I have trouble with a lot of the results, thus the<BR>house stats from my old campaign :&gt;<BR><BR>....<BR>&gt;See above.&nbsp; Really, the only reason to use HEAP in smaller rounds is where<BR>&gt;velocity is too low for good KE effects. In a SNUB weapon with a 150 m/s<BR>&gt;muzzle velocity, this seems to make sense (although I seriously doubt that<BR>&gt;10mm shaped charge would be practical).<BR><BR>&nbsp; Agree. 10mm low-V HE might be practical, inasmuch as anything that <BR>enhances damage has got to be useful at that level :(<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Given that a gyrojet round shouldn't be terribly short either, I'm curious<BR>&gt;&gt; as to whether the ARL/snub rounds are very defensible - OTOH, at least their<BR>&gt;&gt; actions shouldn't be very sensitive to projectile length?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, the gyrojet round was a solid slug--no stand-off required.&nbsp; And it<BR>&gt;never did too well.&nbsp; No energy at short range and no accuracy at long range<BR><BR>&nbsp; Sorry - the ARL (round) uses the gyrojet propulsion method (I think?),<BR>but varies the "warhead" (believably or, IMHO, not). And the write-up<BR>specifies slanted exhausts to provide spin, although we can hand-wave<BR>"TL A" for the long range accuracy issue.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Basically the ARL stats per MT/JTAS don't really fit what we're told<BR>the weapon is supposed to be :(<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 23:16:22 -0800<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3277<BR><BR>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>&gt;Steven Bonneville writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;I personally have trouble uncritically accepting GURPS material (BtC in<BR>&gt; &gt;particular) as canon for this purpose.&nbsp; :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I can appreciate that, but I don't think I'm accepting it uncritically.<BR>Come to<BR>&gt; that, the character generation system with it's 10 ranks have some<BR>problems of<BR>&gt; its own, quite regardless of canonical references to rear and vice<BR>admirals.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1) I firmly belive that the space navy of an Imperium spanning 10,000<BR>worlds<BR>&gt; need more than 10 command levels. Note that I say command levels, not<BR>ranks.<BR><BR>Hmm, let's see -- If each commander at each level of the hierarchy has 10<BR>direct<BR>reports at the next level, you're talking about 10 billion individuals.<BR>That's a million-<BR>man navy on each of the Ten Thousand Worlds. I can't decide if 10-to-1 is a<BR>reasonable command hierarchy across the board, though, never having dealt<BR>with<BR>any kind of military organization. Note that plus-or-minus-one-or-two levels<BR>of<BR>hierarchy could make a huge difference in numbers, as could<BR>plus-or-minus-one-or-<BR>two on that 10-to-1 estimate[1]. At high TLs, does better<BR>information-handling<BR>technology allow you to manage more people than at low tech, or does more<BR>information just keep piling in and swamp you? If the former, then I'd<BR>expect to<BR>see hi-pop planets where every citizen worked for the same Megacorp...<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>[1] 8^8 = 16 million. 10^10 = 10 billion. 12^12 = 8.9 _trillion_.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 20:40:16 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Retro TV and Trav<BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott wrote :<BR>&gt; I can see the 'High Lightning' ships being named after<BR>&gt; minor human&nbsp; races, but... Bard Endeavour?<BR><BR>"Bard Endeavour" is simple. It's named after a misprint of the Barq<BR>Endeavour<BR><BR>&gt; Grinding Starbow? The stories behind these<BR>&gt; names would be fascinating for die-hard canon-trackers. =)<BR><BR>Yeah, this would sound like a good project, inventing the stories behind the<BR>names, but unfortunately there are no stories behind the names. If you<BR>examine the list it is pretty obvious that it was randomly generated.<BR><BR>For instance, we have<BR><BR>Bard Endeavour<BR>Bard Enterprise<BR>Bard Triumph<BR>Bard Refuge<BR>Bard Warlord<BR>Bard Endeavour Echo<BR><BR>But we also have :<BR><BR>Muffled Triumph<BR>Refulgent Triumph<BR>Fiorin Triumph<BR>Incomparable Triumph<BR><BR>And Gilded Enterprise and Infreguent Refuge<BR><BR>And then we have<BR><BR>Muffled Phosphor<BR><BR>And then there's<BR><BR>Arbitrary Remora ( Part of the Arbirtrary group, along with the "Arbitrary<BR>Complication" )<BR><BR>And how about the "Sparkling Distress"&nbsp; (part of the Sparkling group with<BR>"Sparkling Foray" and "Sparkling Observer") or the "Loathsome Reverie" or<BR>the "Refractor Loathsome"?<BR><BR>These are randomly generated names, not the result of stories.<BR>What Naval officer would name somthing "Loathsome Reverie" ?<BR><BR>Of course theres a few that have stories such as "Children of the March" and<BR>"One Thousand Years", but most of them are a bureaucrat's idea of saving a<BR>few thouasand credits on getting real names.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:02:26 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Ivanova<BR><BR>John Groth wrote<BR>&gt; "...[We] founded Whip-TV with a cool concept - we were a con video room<BR>&gt; that showed cult movies under the guise of a renegade UHF station. To<BR>&gt; this day, some people believe that we were a real station, located at<BR>&gt; 3.1415 on your dial. No, really. They bought that."<BR><BR>Well, when I was on exercise with the Air Force in Queenstown, a ski and<BR>party resort in the middle of the Southern Alps, we built an FM radio<BR>transmitter in a cocoa tin, powered by a Dolphin lantern battery.<BR><BR>Warning : Read no further if you're upset by crudity<BR>:<BR>:<BR>:<BR>:<BR>:<BR>:<BR>Imagine, international travellers arriving in New Zealand for the first<BR>time, stepping off the<BR>plane, observing the magnificient mountains, the beautiful lakes, turning on<BR>their radios finding no FM stations that can get through the mountains and<BR>then finally, some noise...<BR><BR>"This is 4Q2 commin' at ya from Queenstown Airport at the bottom of the<BR>Remarkables, remember the far call, and here's the great Australian vocalist<BR>Rodney Rude for ya ....<BR><BR>Do you fuck on first dates&nbsp; ?<BR>Does your dad own a brewery ?<BR>Can I play with your tits,<BR>or will you show them to me ?<BR>...." etc.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Presumably they deliberately and with mirth aforethought truncated the<BR>&gt; value of pi.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>&gt; least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>&gt; your unit."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>&gt; magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 00:04:25 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>&gt;From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR><BR>&gt;Plot ideas<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Situations that call for legal skill include nearly all dealings in or<BR>&gt;with high-law societies.&nbsp; Accusations of criminal or civil wrongdoing<BR><BR>As a lawyer, I think that the last thing I would want to play in Traveller<BR>would be a lawyer.&nbsp; It would be more exciting and interesting (for me) to<BR>play an accountant.<BR><BR>The foregoing to the contrary notwithstanding, it is possible to conceive of<BR>situations in which the PCs can encounter lawyers, impersonate lawyers, or<BR>be lawyers.&nbsp; I'll attempt on example of each.<BR><BR>Encounters with lawyers:<BR>A lawyer may very well be a patron to a group of PCs.&nbsp; It is not uncommon<BR>for lawyers to need to find out real information.&nbsp; In the contemporary<BR>United States, we have a formal process for that called "discovery" in which<BR>one side requests information from the other.&nbsp; At the same time as I am<BR>collecting and analyzing the lies and half-truths that the other side has<BR>provided in response to my discovery requests, I am sending the PCs to<BR>interview people at the scene and find out from them the names and contact<BR>information of witnesses that the other side has not yet found.&nbsp; If I can<BR>learn about those witnesses before the other side has a chance to poison<BR>them with fear or greed, I may be able to get useful evidence into the<BR>record.&nbsp; Pushing this concept into the far future, even if the concept of<BR>discovery is left behind, should not be difficult.<BR><BR>Impersonating lawyers:<BR>Lawyers may have certain rights, typically rights of access, that ordinary<BR>citizens do not.&nbsp; For example, even in the nominally classless United<BR>States, lawyers get a lot more assistance and information from court clerks<BR>than non-lawyers.&nbsp; In court, the only people who may make an argument, enter<BR>into a stipulation, or do many other things are lawyers and the parties<BR>themselves.&nbsp; I have seen judges instruct non-lawyer advocates to just sit<BR>down and stop talking.&nbsp; In other societies, lawyers may have access to many<BR>other things, like libraries, bureaucrats, etc.&nbsp; A situation in which the<BR>PCs might gain an advantage by impersonating lawyers might be the Alell exit<BR>visa problem in the Traveller Adventure.<BR><BR>Being lawyers:<BR>If the PCs are going to be stuck on Alell for decades, they may actually<BR>want to become lawyers. Although this will take several years, at least<BR>they'll still be relatively young when they finally get that exit visa.<BR>(Organizing a coup d'etat might actually be faster.)&nbsp; Having some or all of<BR>the PCs become lawyers is probably a good situation to introduce if the<BR>players are staying awake too much during the game.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 03:36:12 -0500<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:49:52 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nope. Because I distinctly recall reading in the rules that *all* PCs<BR>&gt; are to be assumed to have level 0 in any skill (or at least that PCs<BR>&gt; *never* get a *penalty* for lack of skill, which amounts to the same<BR>&gt; thing).<BR><BR>Not quite (allow me to quote)<BR><BR>CT Book 1 page 16<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; "All player-charecters have innate weapon expertise, in all weapons,<BR>of zero."<BR><BR>CT Book 1 page 23<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; "Often, some charecters will have no skills appropriate.... Skills<BR>appropriate for level-0 are: air/raft, ATV, forward observer, steward,<BR>vacc suit, and weapons"<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; That's the way I recall JoT *and* why folks used to complain about it<BR>&gt; being too powerful.<BR><BR>I never used Jack-o-T that way myself. as well as the level zero thing<BR>I used Jack-o-T as a sort of general BS skill. Usefull to impress people<BR>at parties (wouldn't fool somebody who knew the subject you were<BR>BSing about though.)<BR><BR>Somewhere down the line (I don't know where I picked this up.<BR>MT, TNE?) I restricted Jack-o-T by requiring a succesfull roll<BR>(with JoT as a modifier) to allow unskilled tasks. I never really<BR>like the MT extra tries rule.<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Every day my metal friend<BR>Shakes my bed at 6 AM (Wake up)<BR>Then the shiny servant clones<BR>Running with my telephones."<BR><BR>"Living in the Plastic Age" - Horn/Downes<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:28:28 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Hmmm.&nbsp; I don't recall any mention of condiments favored by female Aslan<BR>&gt; in sensible shoes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; NEW FLAMEWAR TIME!!!!<BR><BR>No...No.... I believe that the preference was noted some time in the first<BR>trials of the pelvaticaly mounted weapons trials.<BR>It may not have been Ketchup, but it had a definite Tomato Base.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;<BR>For he today that sheds his blood with me<BR>Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,<BR>This day shall enoble his rank.<BR><BR>Henry V - William Shakespeare<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:13:09 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: RCID - Alun Moon &lt;alun.moon@newcastle.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt; skill, except increasing the difficulty by one. This way, it acts like a <BR>&gt; zero-level skill (or worse) until J-o-T-3, which is RARE in CT, especially <BR>&gt; in the Books 4-7 systems.<BR><BR>I've been looking for a good mechanism to use JoT well, ever since I<BR>ended up with a Scout (Book-6) with JoT-5.<BR><BR><BR>One thought, that just occured to me while writing this.<BR>In Book-1 Jack-of-all-Trades is described as ``a well rounded<BR>renasance man'', I'd assume that the character has read something or<BR>seen this done before somewhere.&nbsp; JoT could reflect how good a memory<BR>the character has, higher levels indicate photographic or edict (sp)<BR>capabilities.<BR>&nbsp; Which implies that high levels might make the character a prime<BR>target for recrutment by the intelligence communities... doe's anyone<BR>ever leave the IISS?<BR><BR>Alun<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:26:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Dalton Spence &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: OT: Splort Warning (Spoiler for B5 Book)<BR><BR>This is the very first deliberate OT post I've ever made (Really!)<BR>but I just had to share this moment with people who might understand<BR>it. If you need an OBTrav, try imagining Micheal Garibaldi of B5<BR>(and his fascination with certain WB cartoons) translated into a<BR>Traveller character. While I will try to be as general as possible<BR>to avoid spoiling too much, if you haven't read the _Babylon Five<BR>Legions of Fire Book III: Out of the Darkness_ yet and want to be<BR>totally surprised you might want to skip the rest of this message.<BR><BR>S<BR><BR>P<BR><BR>O<BR><BR>I<BR><BR>L<BR><BR>E<BR><BR>R<BR><BR><BR><BR>S<BR><BR>P<BR><BR>A<BR><BR>C<BR><BR>E<BR><BR>!<BR><BR>WARNING!!! Avoid drinking anything while reading page 260 of the<BR>above book. My niece is still mad at me for waking her up from her<BR>beauty sleep with peels of laughter and moans of agony. It proves<BR>without a doubt that either Peter David or JMS (or both) must be<BR>minions of the Shadows; surely no one who wasn't pure evil would<BR>have inserted such a mind-wrenching pun at the height of a very<BR>dramatic scene and make it totally in character for the speaker. No<BR>wonder the target "let out the howl of a damned soul" when he heard<BR>the line; so did I when I read it. You'll recognize it immediately.<BR>(BTW the book is a fine conclusion to the LoF trilogy, filling in<BR>many B5 gaps and providing a lot of closure.)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; @==================================================@<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; G'Kar: No one here is exactly what he appears.&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Mind War, April 2258)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; You must meet Grandmother at headquarters and&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; get the slack-producing termite. FNORD!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; @==================================================@<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:47:47 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>&gt; John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Hmmm.&nbsp; I don't recall any mention of condiments favored by<BR>&gt; &gt; female Aslan in sensible shoes.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No...No.... I believe that the preference was noted some time<BR>&gt; in the first trials of the pelvaticaly mounted weapons trials.<BR>&gt; It may not have been Ketchup, but it had a definite Tomato Base.<BR><BR>I thought it was BBQ source ... or am I getting muddled&nbsp; up&nbsp; with<BR>the Hiver Ambassador to the Two Thousand Worlds?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:09:07 EST<BR>From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>&gt;It may not have been Ketchup, but it had a definite &gt;Tomato Base.<BR><BR>The ketchup comment came from a thread about whether Vargr add seasonings to <BR>their meat :) <BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:33:08 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>At 01:31 -0500 10/11/00, John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Let me ask as well...In all seriousness :-)&nbsp; Does anyone know when GURPS<BR>&gt; &gt; Traveller Starships is coming out? I haven't seen it being added <BR>&gt;to playtest.<BR>&gt; &gt; I know it should have been out by now...I remember it being <BR>&gt;slated before GT<BR>&gt; &gt; Modular Cutter...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Durned if I know.&nbsp; MAJ Thrash should have a better idea.<BR><BR>Rob Prior is now co-ordinating this, not Chris.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:31:36 -0700<BR>From: "David J. Golden" &lt;goldendj@pcisys.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Seeking DAN WARD<BR><BR>If Dan Ward is out there, or anybody knows how to reach him, please<BR>let me know. Thanks!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:43:33 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;To quote Bk 1: "Jack of all trades can be considered<BR>&gt;&gt;to confer skill level-0 in every other skill (but never skill-1)"<BR>&gt;Nope. Because I distinctly recall reading in the rules that *all* PCs<BR>&gt;are to be assumed to have level 0 in any skill (or at least that PCs<BR>&gt;*never* get a *penalty* for lack of skill, which amounts to the same<BR>&gt;thing). <BR>&gt;That'd make the above interpretation of JoT kinda useless, wouldn't it?<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; IIRC PC's are assumed to have level 1/2 in combat skills only,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; enough to avoid any negative DM's when fighting.&nbsp; AFAIK this<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; does not apply to other skills in CT at least.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:05:10 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>Fred Rammen wrote:<BR>&gt; How do other people on the list treat this question? And, as an<BR>&gt; aside, MT says that the skill only gives free retries, although<BR>&gt; I've always assumed it has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything)<BR>&gt; as well. Do other MT referees hold this view?<BR><BR>As an MT Ref the way I play it is ...<BR><BR>- - If the the character doesn't posess the skill but the&nbsp; task&nbsp; is<BR>&nbsp; "unskilled ok" then make the task 1 grade&nbsp; more&nbsp; difficult&nbsp; and<BR>&nbsp; allow J-o-T as the skill.<BR><BR>- - If the the character doesn't posess the skill and the&nbsp; task&nbsp; is<BR>&nbsp; not "unskilled ok" then the task cannot be attempted (even with<BR>&nbsp; J-o-T).<BR><BR>I also combine this with an&nbsp; increasing&nbsp; point&nbsp; cost&nbsp; system&nbsp; for<BR>skills which limits high skill levels and increases the number of<BR>zero-level skills around.<BR><BR>In other words I use J-o-T to offset&nbsp; the&nbsp; unskilled&nbsp; penalty&nbsp; on<BR>"unskilled ok" tasks.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:11:07 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:03:38 -0600<BR>&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Qstor@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Let me ask as well...In all seriousness :-)&nbsp; Does anyone know when GURPS<BR>&gt;&gt; Traveller Starships is coming out? I haven't seen it being added to<BR>playtest.<BR>&gt;&gt; I know it should have been out by now...I remember it being slated<BR>before GT<BR>&gt;&gt; Modular Cutter...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Durned if I know.&nbsp; MAJ Thrash should have a better idea.<BR><BR>I had to stand down as the author on GT: Starships, due to time conflicts<BR>with my real job. This inevitably caused the release date to slip, while<BR>they found a replacement. Robert Prior is now at the conn, and seems to be<BR>waiting on a go-ahead from Loren and SJ Games before beginning [possibly<BR>extended] playtesting, starting with the design chapter. Some pre-playtest<BR>issues are being hashed out on the JTAS discussion boards (which is yet<BR>another good reason to subscribe), though -- in accordance with SJ Games'<BR>policy -- the actual playtest will occur on Pyramid.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:05:21 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Sayat?<BR><BR>Someone (I'm sorry, I forgot who) mentioned that the Sayat were described <BR>in a Freelance Trav article, bnt I couldn't find it.&nbsp; Could someone please <BR>point me in the right idirection?&nbsp; Thanks in advance!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:29:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>I am hunting for input:<BR><BR>The original Law Levels (LL's) did not address some of the weaponry that<BR>Book 4 introduced.&nbsp; How do people deal with heavy weapons?&nbsp; What about<BR>advanced smallarms?&nbsp; I have been considering restricting gauss weapons to 1<BR>LL lower than other automatics, due to the high rate of fire and destructive<BR>power.&nbsp; Similarly, ACR ammo with explosive rounds might not count as<BR>"explosives" for the purposes of LL, but they might earn a 1 LL decrease<BR>compared to autorifles.&nbsp; What do you folks do?<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:51:22<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>At 10:29 AM 11/10/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I am hunting for input:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The original Law Levels (LL's) did not address some of the weaponry that<BR>&gt;Book 4 introduced.&nbsp; How do people deal with heavy weapons?&nbsp; What about<BR>&gt;advanced smallarms?&nbsp; I have been considering restricting gauss weapons to 1<BR>&gt;LL lower than other automatics, due to the high rate of fire and destructive<BR>&gt;power.&nbsp; Similarly, ACR ammo with explosive rounds might not count as<BR>&gt;"explosives" for the purposes of LL, but they might earn a 1 LL decrease<BR>&gt;compared to autorifles.&nbsp; What do you folks do?<BR><BR>Law level 3 restricted "weapons of a strict military nature."&nbsp; This would<BR>easily cover most of the Book 4 hardware, such as gauss rifles(1), ACRs, or<BR>grenade launchers.&nbsp; Plasma/fusion weapons would come under law level 2, as<BR>"portable energy weapons,"&nbsp; or law level 1, as "explosives."<BR><BR>Explosive rounds for small arms are little more than a firecracker-sized<BR>warhead to increase the damage.&nbsp; I doubt they'd be counted as explosives.<BR>This is to prevent you from wandering around town with 25kg of C-4 wired to<BR>a dead man's switch to "protect me from muggings."&nbsp; (Yes, I had a player<BR>try this in a GURPS game.)&nbsp; Larger rounds, such as 20mm and up, might start<BR>raising eyebrows.<BR><BR>In any case, remember that people will rarely react well to strangers armed<BR>like a Marine fire team.&nbsp; Applying a negative DM to the reaction table on<BR>page 27 of Book 3 might be appropriate.&nbsp; Except that the reactions would<BR>probably not be violent, but manifest as refusals to give aid, calling out<BR>for help, or running like hell.<BR><BR>(1) For years Craig has bugged me about my pronunciation of the word gauss.<BR>I was *so* tempted while writing the sidebar about Marine traditions to<BR>add a note stating that along with using the British form of lieutenant,<BR>they also pronounced gauss my way.&nbsp; I resisted the urge.(2)<BR><BR>(2) Damnit, now Loren has me doing these footnotes!<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp;&nbsp; Templar Agent at Large.<BR>gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TravGeekCode: <BR>tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:53:47 -0000<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>hi there<BR><BR>I have just had a thought on this and was wondering what others may think of<BR>what I had in mind.<BR>Well it's true that there are many that lack common sense, and there are<BR>other that have more common sense about them. When seeing someone handle a<BR>situation they are not akin too, or should I say not have the skill too,<BR>they are usually worn out from there efforts in doing so, whether they<BR>succeed or not. What ever the outcome they usually are worn out in their<BR>efforts to succeed in this new area of interest. Well this is how I would<BR>like to see J O T Skill. If someone were akin to the task involved, i.e.<BR>they have a skill level in that trade, they have no problem in succeeding in<BR>this area of skill requirement and see it as no surprise if and or when they<BR>do. This is usually different when a party has no skill in this matter.<BR>Could we see this skill as something that is used up till the PC has time to<BR>recover, therefore replenishing his or her to it's J O T Skill?<BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Ian Ferguson<BR>Sent: 09 November 2000 21:45<BR>To: traveller@ient.com<BR>Subject: RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR><BR>Fred "Confused" Ramen writes:<BR>&gt;I had always assumed, as per the Traveller Book and Book 1, that J-o-T<BR>skill<BR>&gt;only gave level-0 in each skill.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;There it is clearly implied (on pp. 40-42 and 46-47, the<BR>&gt;Narayanam and Baronet sections) that J-o-T gives a level of (J-o-T skill<BR>&gt;level) -1 in every skill, making J-o-T-2 equivalent to Electronics-1 and so<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;How do other people on the list treat this question? And, as an aside, MT<BR>&gt;says that the skill only gives free retries, although I've always assumed<BR>it<BR>&gt;has its CT meaning (skill-0 in everything) as well. Do other MT referees<BR>&gt;hold this view?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have always restricted J-o-T skill to "hands on" skills such as<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mechanical, electronic, etc., rather than computer, carousing, or<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the like.&nbsp; For applications that normally call for another skill<BR>(e.g.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; repairing a radio) I enforce the usual penalty for having no skill<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (which varies depending on the character's background) and then<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; allow J-o-T level to be added as a DM.&nbsp; Thus, an ex-Navy with a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3 unskilled Electronics penalty and J-o-T skill of 2, facing an<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Electronic repair roll of 8+ would roll 2D-3+2 or 2D-1.&nbsp; OTOH,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for tasks that fall outside of skills (e.g. fabricating a lean-to),<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I would allow the full use of J-o-T.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3278<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (rly-zb03.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.3]) by air-zb05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:57:16 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:56:38 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA95818;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:54:08 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:53:56 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA95772<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:53:56 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:53:56 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011101553.KAA95772@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3278<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3279</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>11/11/00 12:33:29 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, November 11 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3279<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>New Pics<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: HEAP rounds<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Re: jack-of-all-trades question<BR>Great Pictures<BR>Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR>Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Strangers in a Strange Land - Amnesia, Reversed<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs--Law<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Ghalalk class armoured cruiser<BR>ADV: new web site test<BR>RE: Washington<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:59:42 -0800<BR>From: "Mike Linsenmayer" &lt;mlinsenmayer@symantec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: New Pics<BR><BR>- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Well,<BR>Passing by Sotheby's while on Home, I stopped by and look what I found for<BR>sale! Some first issue formal dinner ware , an old assassins stiletto and<BR>an agents broach.<BR>http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-k.htm<BR>- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>And<BR>I had to take a picture of this one, while on vacation on Regina, me and my<BR>wife stopped by a friends and we got invited up to the regional director<BR>office. So Ihade to take a picture!<BR>http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-j.htm<BR>- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Anyways<BR><BR>Enjoy<BR><BR>- -Mike<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:16:47 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; This is to prevent you from wandering around town with 25kg of<BR>&gt; C-4 wired to a dead man's switch to "protect me from muggings."<BR>&gt; (Yes, I had a player try this in a GURPS game.)<BR><BR>Did anyone call his bluff?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; (1) For years Craig has bugged me about my pronunciation of the<BR>&gt; word gauss.&nbsp; I was *so* tempted while writing the sidebar about<BR>&gt; Marine traditions to add a note stating that along with using<BR>&gt; the British form of lieutenant, they also pronounced gauss my<BR>&gt; way.&nbsp; I resisted the urge.<BR><BR>Okay, so how did you pronounce it and how does&nbsp; Craig&nbsp; reckon&nbsp; it<BR>should be pronounced?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR>(who alternates between 2 ways or pronouncing "gauss")<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:03:40 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>on 11/10/00 7:51 AM, Douglas E. Berry at gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; (1) For years Craig has bugged me about my pronunciation of the word gauss.<BR>&gt; I was *so* tempted while writing the sidebar about Marine traditions to<BR>&gt; add a note stating that along with using the British form of lieutenant,<BR>&gt; they also pronounced gauss my way.&nbsp; I resisted the urge.(2)<BR><BR>The correct pronunciation isn't be difficult to find.&nbsp; I note his name in my<BR>Webster's Dictionary.&nbsp; The correct pronunciation is 'gows', as in Karl<BR>Friedrich 1777-1855 (sorry, I don't have the fancy dictionary character<BR>set).<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:20:01 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HEAP rounds<BR><BR>on 11/9/00 10:57 PM, Steven Hudson at shudson@lightspeed.ca wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Yes, I know that small arms caliber HEAP is 'canon'.&nbsp; But it will probably<BR>&gt;&gt; be easier to build a plasma gun, than manufacture an effective (and cost<BR>&gt;&gt; effective) HEAP round that can be fired from a small arm. Law of diminishing<BR>&gt;&gt; returns and all that.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yep. And some of that applies to really small (5 gram!) HE rounds too -<BR>&gt; how simple a fuze do you want if you're going to have that stuff snugged<BR>&gt; up against your rib-cage?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Actually, this is really simple.&nbsp; An explosive with an impact detonation or<BR>initiator detonation near velocity of the weapon.&nbsp; In days past I worked for<BR>Velet Cartridge Co., a manufacturer of explosive and special purpose<BR>ammunition.&nbsp; Their explosive ammo (not HE, but it serves to illustrate the<BR>point) could be safely dropped from tens of feet.&nbsp; In fact, you could hammer<BR>an explosive bullet almost flat with a sledgehammer without detonating it.<BR>Yet if you fired the round from a gun, it blew every time.<BR><BR>The round was deceptively simple, consisting of nothing more than the bullet<BR>itself, the explosive and the 'special ingredient'.&nbsp; The design easily lends<BR>itself to cheap mass production.<BR><BR>I picture the SNUB HE round as having a projectile of cast high explosive,<BR>the an impact detonated initiator being cast within the center of the<BR>bullet.&nbsp; The plastic nature of the bullet protects the initiator from casual<BR>handling or droppage.&nbsp; The initiator detonates the explosive only when it is<BR>struck or mechanically with significant force, like striking an object at<BR>100 m/s or more.&nbsp; Note that there will be a slight delay in detonation while<BR>the bullet distorts, but this is actually and advantage, as the HE round<BR>penetrates the target before detonation.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:59:34 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>Douglas Berry writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;Explosive rounds for small arms are little more than a firecracker-sized<BR>&gt;warhead to increase the damage.&nbsp; I doubt they'd be counted as explosives.<BR>&gt;This is to prevent you from wandering around town with 25kg of C-4 wired to<BR>&gt;a dead man's switch to "protect me from muggings."&nbsp; (Yes, I had a player<BR>&gt;try this in a GURPS game.)&nbsp; Larger rounds, such as 20mm and up, might start<BR>&gt;raising eyebrows.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Agreed.&nbsp; I would not treat all explosive rounds as "explosives", but I<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; might treat snub pistol HE rounds as "weapons of a strictly military<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; nature".<BR><BR>&gt;In any case, remember that people will rarely react well to strangers armed<BR>&gt;like a Marine fire team.&nbsp; Applying a negative DM to the reaction table on<BR>&gt;page 27 of Book 3 might be appropriate.&nbsp; Except that the reactions would<BR>&gt;probably not be violent, but manifest as refusals to give aid, calling out<BR>&gt;for help, or running like hell.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; For sure.&nbsp; I have never had a PC go to the extreme of the one<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; described above, but they often do like to carry the maximum<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; allowable by local LL.&nbsp; This will usually generate negative reactions,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; locked doors, confrontations with nervous locals and police<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; harrassment.&nbsp; Of course, some worlds are worse than others.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:46:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;It may not have been Ketchup, but it had a definite &gt;Tomato Base.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The ketchup comment came from a thread about whether Vargr add seasonings to <BR>&gt; their meat :) <BR><BR>Please note that "ketchup" is a *family* of fruit based[1] sauces from<BR>Indonesia. I've got a recipe for *grape* ketchup.<BR><BR>This is why it used to always be described as *tomato* ketchup.<BR><BR>ObTrav: <BR><BR>Players may get some unexpected results if they aren't careful when<BR>ordering or requesting condiments.<BR><BR>[1] yes, tomatos are fruits. Overgrown berries, to be exact.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:03:12 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>I was doing some thinking about quasi-realistic energy weapons (no grav focus,<BR>trying to limit the use of Unobtainium, etc), and I had some questions I <BR>wondered if people had any ideas about:<BR><BR>1)&nbsp; A realistic laser is going to heat up its focusing mirror; assuming 99%<BR>reflectivity and a 10 megajoule laser with a 1 square meter mirror, it will <BR>transfer 10 joules/cm^2 into the surface; if we assume the heat transfers 1<BR>cm into the mirror, that's going to increase the temperature of the mirror<BR>by around 2-5 degrees depending on material, presumably distorting the <BR>mirror due to thermal effects.&nbsp; Can anyone give me a realistic guess as to <BR>what the minimal distortion would be?&nbsp; That amount of heating seems to be <BR>within the reasonable range for telescope optics, so I'm guessing not above<BR>1/10^6, but it might be less (and a 1 meter mirror can have a resolution of<BR>less than 1/10^6, particularly in UV).<BR><BR>2)&nbsp; Is there a plausible way of focusing a laser which would not have such<BR>thermal issues?&nbsp; Obviously, a larger mirror would heat up much less, which I<BR>assume would help -- would a 100x larger mirror have 1% the distortion?<BR><BR>3)&nbsp; On a separate issue, can anyone give a plausible limit on the volts/meter<BR>for a linear accelerator?&nbsp; 1 million?&nbsp; 10 millon?<BR><BR>4)&nbsp; Related to that, what's a reasonable minimum cross-beam velocity for the<BR>accelerated particles?&nbsp; How about after applying something to neutralize their<BR>charge?<BR><BR>5)&nbsp; I'm guessing that the easiest way to neutralize charge without scattering<BR>the beam is to use two linacs, one accelerating protons, the other electrons,<BR>and merge the beams with a magnetic field.&nbsp; Does this sound plausible?<BR><BR>6)&nbsp; Does anyone know the actual penetration of the particle showers from high<BR>energy nuclear particles?&nbsp; From some information I found on cosmic rays it<BR>looks like about 2 tons/m^2 * log2(energy/100 MEv)), allowing 3 GEv showers<BR>to reach the ground, but I may have misread the information totally.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 22:28 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;14859.51417.992134.368454@dee&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Alun wrote "One thought, that just occured to me while writing this.<BR>In Book-1 Jack-of-all-Trades is described as ``a well rounded<BR>renasance man'', I'd assume that the character has read something or<BR>seen this done before somewhere.&nbsp; JoT could reflect how good a memory<BR>the character has, higher levels indicate photographic or edict (sp)<BR>capabilities.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>"Which implies that high levels might make the character a prime<BR>target for recrutment by the intelligence communities... doe's anyone<BR>ever leave the IISS?"<BR><BR>Hmm... that's a very interesting approach. J-o-T as a measure of the <BR>retentiveness of the character's memory.<BR><BR>So what level of J-o-T do us eidetic bods have?<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:17:12 EST<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>Fred Ramen wrote: <BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;How do other people on the list treat this question?<BR><BR>I give characters three skill-0 levels in skills of their choice per level<BR>of JOT skill (you may want to make PCs come up with background history<BR>to justify their choices -- especially if a bureaucrat wants heavy weapons-0<BR>skill -- or even forbid them).&nbsp; Also, if you use an expanded list of skills<BR>(like in MT), you may want to give four level-0 skills per level of JOT.<BR>PCs must choose what skills they are familiar in at (really, after) chargen.<BR><BR>This system rewards players for getting JOT-2+, while preserving the skill-0<BR>maximum limit.&nbsp; The higher the JOT level, the more flexible the PC.<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:36:10 -0000<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Great Pictures<BR><BR>Hey Mike, those pictures look great, thanks.<BR>Especially like the on of the office.<BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:33:52 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Washington<BR><BR>&gt; The only<BR>&gt;&nbsp; reason he was a general was because he was wealthy enough to raise his own<BR>&gt;&nbsp; army. Few people know that America's FIRST millionaire was George<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Washington. I think that I am one of the few people who do NOT consider him<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the father of our country. He was closer to American Royalty than the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; designer of our democracy IMNSHO. Thomas Jefferson is way higher on my list<BR>&gt;&nbsp; along with Ben Franklin as the real "Master Minds" of the constitution.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Ahem. While Washington was indeed wealthy enough that he could offer to <BR>equip 1000 men at his own expense to relieve Boston in 1774,&nbsp; I find no <BR>mention that he followed through on this offer. Instead, he was sent as a <BR>delegate to the Congress.&nbsp; In any case, this was hardly the ONLY reason he <BR>was placed in command of the army. He was already a military hero in Virginia <BR>due to his service in the British army in the French and Indian Wars in the <BR>1750s. True,&nbsp; he wasn't one of history's great generals, but he was the best <BR>the colonies had at the time when they began recruiting volunteers against <BR>the British.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Recall also that at the war's end, Washington refused to entertain a <BR>suggestion that he be made king and actually prevented an attempted march on <BR>Congress to demand the pay Congress had not given the army.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Afterwards, Washington wrote to other leading men in support of the <BR>efforts to reform or replace the Articles of Confederation, to ratify the <BR>Constitution once it had been proposed, and to elect supporters of it to the <BR>first Congress organized under it, thus lending his influence and prestige to <BR>these efforts. There is reason to believe that none of these efforts would <BR>have succeeded had he been opposed or indifferent to the various efforts to <BR>unify the squabbling states. It is some measure of his prestige that in spite <BR>of his expressed reluctance to accept the job, no one else was seriously <BR>considered as the first President. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Jefferson, on the other hand, was in France serving as American <BR>ambassador during this whole time (1784-1789), and had no direct say in the <BR>Constitution.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; True, Washington was no great champion of democracy, but he was no great <BR>champion of aristocracy, either.&nbsp; According to the political thought of the <BR>day, democracy was only lone step better than anarchy, while the aristocracy <BR>he knew <BR>was a snobbish hereditary one, nearly as bad as a tyrannical monarchy. <BR><BR>OB Traveller:&nbsp; Washington is unknown except to a few professional historians <BR>in the late 3I.&nbsp; His anti-monarchical activities and association with the <BR>discredited "republican" form of government would not make him popular with <BR>the Imperial nobility, and SolSec wouln't like him much better.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:52:14 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>TOCoons@cs.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snips discussion of GW&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OB Traveller:&nbsp; Washington is unknown except to a few professional historians<BR>&gt; in the late 3I.&nbsp; His anti-monarchical activities and association with the<BR>&gt; discredited "republican" form of government would not make him popular with<BR>&gt; the Imperial nobility, and SolSec wouln't like him much better.<BR><BR>At which point, we introduce the Islands Cluster (who departed Terra<BR>with a view of GW unfiltered by either the 3I or the SC perspective).<BR><BR>&lt;readies M203, launches political grenades at both the 3I and the SC&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:40:30 -0800<BR>From: Ken Hagler &lt;khagler@orange-road.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>on 11/10/2000 4:52 PM, John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At which point, we introduce the Islands Cluster (who departed Terra<BR>&gt; with a view of GW unfiltered by either the 3I or the SC perspective).<BR><BR>But that was a European Space Agency mission. I doubt a bunch of Europeans<BR>would really care all that much about Washington now, let alone that far in<BR>the future...<BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ken Hagler<BR><BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ICQ#: 34591293&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; For PGP key send mail with&nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.orange-road.com/&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; subject "Send PGP Key".&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; It's like an irony of fate; Things never turn out as I wish&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; It's just like an irony of fate; It kills me --Mari Iijima&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 22:03:54 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Retro TV and Trav<BR><BR>Arbitrary Remora.<BR><BR>A large leech-like creature that choose its victims by whim.<BR><BR>When I got Arrival Vengeance I hadn't gotten the Azhanti high Lightning set.<BR>So when I read the description of a collection of Byzantine ship names, even<BR>with the ones I knew I didn't think it could really be that bad.<BR>Then I got the Supplements Reprint.<BR>Randomly generated?<BR>There has GOT to be a story here.<BR>:)<BR><BR>Samwise<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:37:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I was doing some thinking about quasi-realistic energy weapons (no grav <BR>&gt; focus,<BR>&gt; trying to limit the use of Unobtainium, etc), and I had some questions I <BR>&gt; wondered if people had any ideas about:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1)&nbsp; A realistic laser is going to heat up its focusing mirror; assuming 99%<BR>&gt; reflectivity<BR><BR>Try 99.99% reflective or better. We do that *now*. For single<BR>wavelngths you can make *incredibly* reflective mirrors.<BR><BR>&gt; 2)&nbsp; Is there a plausible way of focusing a laser which would not have such<BR>&gt; thermal issues?&nbsp; Obviously, a larger mirror would heat up much less, which I<BR>&gt; assume would help -- would a 100x larger mirror have 1% the distortion?<BR><BR>Well, to start with you generally *don't* focus a laser. <BR><BR>In fact, as I recall, it's not physically *possible* to focus light to<BR>a smaller area than the source!<BR><BR>And lasers tend to have low divergence. The limit to range is<BR>*diffraction* effects due to the "sharpness" of the edge of the laser<BR>aperture. And the spread due to that is set by the size of the<BR>aperature and the wavelength of the light. <BR><BR>&gt; 3)&nbsp; On a separate issue, can anyone give a plausible limit on the volts/meter<BR>&gt; for a linear accelerator?&nbsp; 1 million?&nbsp; 10 millon?<BR><BR>At some point, the voltage will arc over. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:46:27 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; True, Washington was no great champion of democracy, but he was no great <BR>&gt; champion of aristocracy, either.&nbsp; According to the political thought of the <BR>&gt; day, democracy was only lone step better than anarchy, while the aristocracy <BR>&gt; he knew <BR>&gt; was a snobbish hereditary one, nearly as bad as a tyrannical monarchy. <BR><BR>Actually, it's a matter of historical *fact* that true democracy is<BR>little better than anarchy. And that's why the US was never intended to<BR>be one (and *isn't* one even now, in spite of concerted attempts to<BR>*make* it one). <BR><BR>Democracy is a *lousy* form of government. It can only work if the<BR>voters are selfless and take the time to think issues through, as well<BR>as to do their best to find out the facts before they vote.<BR><BR>In the real world it *always* leads to things like depriving minorities<BR>of rights, and doing what is popular, even if it's the wrong thing to do.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 22:30:48 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Strangers in a Strange Land - Amnesia, Reversed<BR><BR>Here's another spin on the whole "amnesia" thing:<BR><BR>The PCs wake up only to find that everything is different and that they <BR>aren't who they think they are. (Good for converting to/from Trav)<BR><BR>This would be like the one episode of Red Dwarf where they encounter the <BR>despair squid.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:04:35 -0600<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>At 06:33 PM 11/10/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; The only<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; reason he was a general was because he was wealthy enough to raise his own<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; army. Few people know that America's FIRST millionaire was George<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Washington. I think that I am one of the few people who do NOT <BR>&gt; consider him<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the father of our country. He was closer to American Royalty than the<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; designer of our democracy IMNSHO. Thomas Jefferson is way higher on my <BR>&gt; list<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; along with Ben Franklin as the real "Master Minds" of the constitution.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Ahem. While Washington was indeed wealthy enough that he could offer to<BR>&gt;equip 1000 men at his own expense to relieve Boston in 1774,&nbsp; I find no<BR>&gt;mention that he followed through on this offer. Instead, he was sent as a<BR>&gt;delegate to the Congress.&nbsp; In any case, this was hardly the ONLY reason he<BR>&gt;was placed in command of the army. He was already a military hero in Virginia<BR>&gt;due to his service in the British army in the French and Indian Wars in the<BR>&gt;1750s. True,&nbsp; he wasn't one of history's great generals, but he was the best<BR>&gt;the colonies had at the time when they began recruiting volunteers against<BR>&gt;the British.<BR><BR>Washington Did have the one quality that Napoleon believed all generals <BR>should have. He was lucky. The history of the Colonial army under his <BR>command is filled with stories that defy belief.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:06:28 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs--Law<BR><BR>"Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; As a lawyer, I think that the last thing I would want to play in Traveller<BR>&gt;&nbsp; would be a lawyer.&nbsp; It would be more exciting and interesting (for me) to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; play an accountant.<BR><BR>As I mentioned at the beginning, a lot of these jobs are more suitable for <BR>NPCs than for PCs. I'm NOT a lawyer, and I probably wouldn't want to play one <BR>as a PC, either.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Encounters with lawyers:<BR><BR>An lawyer as an NPC patron, sure.&nbsp; The kind of example you give would be the <BR>kind of thing I would discuss where interrogation or interview is the primary <BR>skill.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Impersonating lawyers:<BR><BR>That would be&nbsp; on my list of things to discuss where acting is the primary <BR>skill. A little bit of&nbsp; legal knowledge would go a long way in doing such an <BR>impersonation successfully.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Being lawyers: Having some or all of&nbsp; the PCs become lawyers is probably a<BR>&gt; good situation to introduce if the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; players are staying awake too much during the game.<BR><BR>if a job is boring, I'd consider making it a skill roll instead of <BR>role-playing it out. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:29:49 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, it's a matter of historical *fact* that true democracy is<BR>&gt; little better than anarchy. And that's why the US was never intended to<BR>&gt; be one (and *isn't* one even now, in spite of concerted attempts to<BR>&gt; *make* it one).<BR><BR>Thankfully, that takes a 2/3 vote by states to give up their rights, which<BR>is unlikely at this time.<BR><BR>&gt; Democracy is a *lousy* form of government. It can only work if the<BR>&gt; voters are selfless and take the time to think issues through, as well<BR>&gt; as to do their best to find out the facts before they vote.<BR><BR>Yes, yes, a license and an examination to prove yourself and earn your<BR>ballot. Bravo.<BR><BR>&gt; In the real world it *always* leads to things like depriving minorities<BR>&gt; of rights, and doing what is popular, even if it's the wrong thing to do.<BR><BR>Majority rule is, or is turned into, mob rule. That is why a jury is<BR>empanelled after qualification and is given strict direction in law and by<BR>the judge. And, no human can be expected to act impartially if they are<BR>invested in the situation or outcome. Even judges, trained in fairness and<BR>impartiality, must sometimes dismiss themselves from a case.<BR><BR>Logic and emotion are at opposite ends of a broad spectrum ;-)<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;&gt;&lt;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:33:34 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Richard Wilson" &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>&gt; Washington Did have the one quality that Napoleon believed all generals<BR>&gt; should have. He was lucky. The history of the Colonial army under his<BR>&gt; command is filled with stories that defy belief.<BR><BR>That is because the stories are made up. They are just cover stories.<BR>Careful research of the Vilani records of exploration in the area of the Sol<BR>system... &lt;fzzt&gt; ... ^^^ &lt;crackle&gt;...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:26:18 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Ghalalk class armoured cruiser<BR><BR>For those interested I have just posted the stats for a FFS1 version of the<BR>Ghalalk class armoured cruiser. The design represents as closely as possible<BR>the design which appeared in CT Supplement 9 Fighting Ships, armed with a<BR>spinal N-PAW. As compared to the version in Battle Rider (Mercury class)<BR>which carried a Meson Gun (Perhaps a half sister?)<BR><BR>It can be found by following the links from www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>via the Alston League and Alston League order of battle.<BR><BR>Comments would be welcome.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 02:06:46 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: ADV: new web site test<BR><BR>Well, I finally got soft in the head and bought my little Traveller "store"<BR>an URL. Anyone care to crash test it? The forms and SSI, images, etc. seem<BR>to work from here, but I could use an independent walk-through or two.<BR>Thanks.<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________<BR>________ www.TravellerTrader.com __________<BR>"The place to get that wonderful,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; out-of-print Traveller stuff!"<BR><BR>Colin Michael - ct@downport.com<BR>.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:35:37 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Washington<BR><BR>Ken Hagler wrote :<BR>&gt; on 11/10/2000 4:52 PM, John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; At which point, we introduce the Islands Cluster (who departed Terra<BR>&gt; &gt; with a view of GW unfiltered by either the 3I or the SC perspective).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But that was a European Space Agency mission. I doubt a bunch of Europeans<BR>&gt; would really care all that much about Washington now, let alone<BR>&gt; that far in the future...<BR><BR>You forget, George Washington was merely the American alias of Adam<BR>Weishaupt of the Bavarian Illuminati.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:31:18 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hmmm.&nbsp; I don't recall any mention of condiments favored by<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; female Aslan in sensible shoes.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; No...No.... I believe that the preference was noted some time<BR>&gt; &gt; in the first trials of the pelvaticaly mounted weapons trials.<BR>&gt; &gt; It may not have been Ketchup, but it had a definite Tomato Base.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I thought it was BBQ source ... or am I getting muddled&nbsp; up&nbsp; with<BR>&gt; the Hiver Ambassador to the Two Thousand Worlds?<BR><BR>No that was the BBQ reciepe contest for K'Kree....<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;<BR>For he today that sheds his blood with me<BR>Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,<BR>This day shall enoble his rank.<BR><BR>Henry V - William Shakespeare<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3279<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (rly-yb05.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.5]) by air-yb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:33:29 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:33:01 1900<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id DAA76462;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:30:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:29:32 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id DAA76054<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:29:32 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:29:32 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011110829.DAA76054@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3279<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, November 11 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3280<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Re : Some Qs about energy weapons<BR>Re : Some Qs about energy weapons<BR>Re : Some Qs about energy weapons<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR>Re: Washington<BR>The QSDS<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>laser and particle beams (energy wepons) <BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:31:55 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>Qstor@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;It may not have been Ketchup, but it had a definite &gt;Tomato Base.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The ketchup comment came from a thread about whether Vargr add seasonings to<BR>&gt; their meat :)<BR><BR>Cool, I knew it was from a secondary thread.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;<BR>For he today that sheds his blood with me<BR>Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,<BR>This day shall enoble his rank.<BR><BR>Henry V - William Shakespeare<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:34:55 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;It may not have been Ketchup, but it had a definite &gt;Tomato Base.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The ketchup comment came from a thread about whether Vargr add seasonings to<BR>&gt; &gt; their meat :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Please note that "ketchup" is a *family* of fruit based[1] sauces from<BR>&gt; Indonesia. I've got a recipe for *grape* ketchup.<BR><BR>Cool, post it.<BR><BR>&gt; Players may get some unexpected results if they aren't careful when<BR>&gt; ordering or requesting condiments.<BR><BR>Ain't that the truth.... Especially in Vilani Restaurants.<BR><BR>No 'eneri stew<BR>No 'eneri Pate`<BR>No 'eneri nothen"<BR>You just don't know where he has been.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;<BR>For he today that sheds his blood with me<BR>Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,<BR>This day shall enoble his rank.<BR><BR>Henry V - William Shakespeare<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:50:18 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : Some Qs about energy weapons<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote :-<BR>&gt; 3)&nbsp; On a separate issue, can anyone give a plausible limit on the volts/meter<BR>&gt; for a linear accelerator?&nbsp; 1 million?&nbsp; 10 millon?<BR><BR>I don't have the exact references, but (for rec.arts.sf.science) :-<BR>&gt; There was an<BR>&gt; announcement just recently of an experiment using high-power lasers which<BR>&gt; was able to accelerate charged particles to an MeV in the space of a micron.<BR>&gt; That's an acceleration gradient of a TeV per meter!&nbsp; Of course, it's not<BR>&gt; clear how to scale it up, but, at that rate, you could put Fermilab<BR>&gt; on a tabletop.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; (Paul Shocklee<BR>&gt; Graduate Student, Department of Physics, Princeton University)<BR><BR>I'd infer acceleration gradients of GeV/m for contemporary RW devices.<BR><BR>&gt; 6)&nbsp; Does anyone know the actual penetration of the particle showers from high<BR>&gt; energy nuclear particles?<BR>&gt; From some information I found on cosmic rays it<BR>&gt; looks like about 2 tons/m^2 * log2(energy/100 MEv)), allowing 3 GEv showers<BR>&gt; to reach the ground, but I may have misread the information totally.<BR><BR>The numbers look OK, but the dimensions look a little funny.<BR>2 tons of air (1kg/m^3 at 20C/1 atmosphere) per m^2 ?<BR>2 tons of particles (??) per m^2 ?<BR><BR>Is this assumed to be per unit time?<BR><BR>There should be some neutron spectroscopy/accelerator data on the web<BR>that may be of use. The problem is finding it...<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:44:28 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : Some Qs about energy weapons<BR><BR>I wrote :-<BR>&gt; The numbers look OK, but the dimensions look a little funny.<BR>Ugh. My mistake. It's (mass particles)/(m^2)<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote :-<BR>&gt; 6)&nbsp; Does anyone know the actual penetration of the particle showers from high<BR>&gt; energy nuclear particles?<BR><BR>The Bethe-Bloch equation looks like what we need, and some BOTE numbers<BR>to plug into it.<BR><BR>There's a calculator at this URL :-<BR>&gt; http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone20/cat314/4930.htm<BR><BR>but I don't know what platform the code will run on.<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:56:30 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : Some Qs about energy weapons<BR><BR>Must get sleep.<BR>I wrote :-<BR>&gt; I'd infer acceleration gradients of GeV/m for contemporary RW devices.<BR><BR>SLAC - 20GeV/3000m ; recent upgrade to 50GeV.<BR>Fermilab 2TeV over ~ (2 X pi) km<BR><BR>The Bethe-Bloch calculator I mentioned previously runs on a HP 45...<BR><BR><BR>&lt;Homer Simpson&gt;<BR>D'oh!<BR>&lt;/Homer Simpson&gt;<BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:57:54<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>At 04:16 PM 11/10/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; This is to prevent you from wandering around town with 25kg of<BR>&gt;&gt; C-4 wired to a dead man's switch to "protect me from muggings."<BR>&gt;&gt; (Yes, I had a player try this in a GURPS game.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Did anyone call his bluff?<BR><BR>Bluff?&nbsp; &lt;bitter laughter, sliding towards the hysterical side&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; (1) For years Craig has bugged me about my pronunciation of the<BR>&gt;&gt; word gauss.&nbsp; I was *so* tempted while writing the sidebar about<BR>&gt;&gt; Marine traditions to add a note stating that along with using<BR>&gt;&gt; the British form of lieutenant, they also pronounced gauss my<BR>&gt;&gt; way.&nbsp; I resisted the urge.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Okay, so how did you pronounce it and how does&nbsp; Craig&nbsp; reckon&nbsp; it<BR>&gt;should be pronounced?<BR><BR>Gaw-ss, sounding like "caw" or "ma."&nbsp; The allegedly correct pronouncition<BR>is "gows," like "cows."<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:53:29 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>Colin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Actually, it's a matter of historical *fact* that true democracy is<BR>&gt; &gt; little better than anarchy. And that's why the US was never intended to<BR>&gt; &gt; be one (and *isn't* one even now, in spite of concerted attempts to<BR>&gt; &gt; *make* it one).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thankfully, that takes a 2/3 vote by states to give up their rights, which<BR>&gt; is unlikely at this time.<BR><BR>Actually, 3/4 to pass the constitutional amendments.<BR><BR>[snip]<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:54:38 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 06:33 PM 11/10/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; The only<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; reason he was a general was because he was wealthy enough to raise his own<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; army. Few people know that America's FIRST millionaire was George<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; Washington. I think that I am one of the few people who do NOT <BR>&gt; &gt; consider him<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; the father of our country. He was closer to American Royalty than the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; designer of our democracy IMNSHO. Thomas Jefferson is way higher on my <BR>&gt; &gt; list<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; along with Ben Franklin as the real "Master Minds" of the constitution.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Ahem. While Washington was indeed wealthy enough that he could offer to<BR>&gt; &gt;equip 1000 men at his own expense to relieve Boston in 1774,&nbsp; I find no<BR>&gt; &gt;mention that he followed through on this offer. Instead, he was sent as a<BR>&gt; &gt;delegate to the Congress.&nbsp; In any case, this was hardly the ONLY reason he<BR>&gt; &gt;was placed in command of the army. He was already a military hero in Virginia<BR>&gt; &gt;due to his service in the British army in the French and Indian Wars in the<BR>&gt; &gt;1750s. True,&nbsp; he wasn't one of history's great generals, but he was the best<BR>&gt; &gt;the colonies had at the time when they began recruiting volunteers against<BR>&gt; &gt;the British.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Washington Did have the one quality that Napoleon believed all generals <BR>&gt; should have. He was lucky. The history of the Colonial army under his <BR>&gt; command is filled with stories that defy belief.<BR>&gt; <BR>While Washington lost a whole bunch of battles, he never lost his army;<BR>they got away to remain a force in being and to fight another day.<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:40:36 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Actually, it's a matter of historical *fact* that true democracy is<BR>&gt;&gt; little better than anarchy. And that's why the US was never intended to<BR>&gt;&gt; be one (and *isn't* one even now, in spite of concerted attempts to<BR>&gt;&gt; *make* it one).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thankfully, that takes a 2/3 vote by states to give up their rights, which<BR>&gt; is unlikely at this time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Democracy is a *lousy* form of government. It can only work if the<BR>&gt;&gt; voters are selfless and take the time to think issues through, as well<BR>&gt;&gt; as to do their best to find out the facts before they vote.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, yes, a license and an examination to prove yourself and earn your<BR>&gt; ballot. Bravo.<BR><BR>That's not much (if any) better. You need responsible voters, but<BR>trying to *restrict* the vote to the "responsible" has a bad history<BR>also. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In the real world it *always* leads to things like depriving minorities<BR>&gt;&gt; of rights, and doing what is popular, even if it's the wrong thing to do.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Majority rule is, or is turned into, mob rule. That is why a jury is<BR>&gt; empanelled after qualification and is given strict direction in law and by<BR>&gt; the judge. And, no human can be expected to act impartially if they are<BR>&gt; invested in the situation or outcome. Even judges, trained in fairness and<BR>&gt; impartiality, must sometimes dismiss themselves from a case.<BR><BR>I suggest that you look up how judges get the job in the US. Because<BR>they *don't* get trained for the job!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:44:54 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;It may not have been Ketchup, but it had a definite &gt;Tomato Base.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; The ketchup comment came from a thread about whether Vargr add<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; seasonings to their meat :)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Please note that "ketchup" is a *family* of fruit based[1] sauces from<BR>&gt;&gt; Indonesia. I've got a recipe for *grape* ketchup.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Cool, post it.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; GRAPE KETCHUP<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5 lb Grapes; picked<BR>2 1/2 lb Sugar<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 pt Cider vinegar<BR>1 1/2 T&nbsp; Salt<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Clove<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Black pepper<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Allspice<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Cinnamon<BR><BR>Stew grapes and put through a colander;&nbsp; then add the other<BR>ingredients and boil all together until a little thick.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; --- Mrs. C. E. Davis<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Webster Woman's Club, 1922<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; per Perry Lowell<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Players may get some unexpected results if they aren't careful when<BR>&gt;&gt; ordering or requesting condiments.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ain't that the truth.... Especially in Vilani Restaurants.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No 'eneri stew<BR>&gt; No 'eneri Pate`<BR>&gt; No 'eneri nothen"<BR>&gt; You just don't know where he has been.<BR><BR>Klingon Tea... <BR><BR>"What do you mean you forgot to bring the antidote along with the tea?!"<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:13:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR><BR>When working with the Hurricane Andrew relief effort, the senior Navy<BR>officer on site was a captain.&nbsp; His title, though, was commodore, as he<BR>was in charge of a JTF (Joint Task Force).&nbsp; So, yes, commodore is used<BR>in peacetime.<BR><BR>- --- Thom Harris &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; Just so you know, the U.S. Navy recognizes "Commodore" as the<BR>&gt; official rank<BR>&gt; of a one star in "War Time Only". It is Rear Admiral (Lower Half) for<BR>&gt; all<BR>&gt; other times. I don't believe that it is handed out to "Senior<BR>&gt; Captains"<BR>&gt; unless they 1) are selected for promotion AND 2) we are in a state of<BR>&gt; war.<BR>&gt; The rank of Fleet Admiral (five stars) has only been awarded (by an<BR>&gt; act of<BR>&gt; congress) to the following WW II admirals; King (CoS), Leahy (CNO),<BR>&gt; Nimitz,<BR>&gt; and Halsey. No modern day admirals have ever been given this rank.<BR>&gt; The only<BR>&gt; U.S. Army five star award/promotion after 1945 was to Bradley who was<BR>&gt; appointed Chief of Staff in 1950. Douglas MacArthur was recalled from<BR>&gt; Japan<BR>&gt; to go to Korea then. Congress didn't feel it was appropriate to have<BR>&gt; a four<BR>&gt; star "in charge" of a five star. Bradley's war record certainly<BR>&gt; didn't hurt<BR>&gt; him and he was WELL liked by Pres. Truman. There have only been nine,<BR>&gt; five<BR>&gt; stars in U.S. History. You may find it interesting that the U.S.<BR>&gt; never had a<BR>&gt; four star rank before Black Jack Pershing just prior to WW I. A tad<BR>&gt; of<BR>&gt; trivia, Auther MacArthur held the rank of (Army) Captain for 26 years<BR>&gt; after<BR>&gt; the civil war. He had been a nineteen year old "Brevet Colonel" after<BR>&gt; his<BR>&gt; heroic charge (eighteen year old MoH winner) in Chattanooga, TN. He<BR>&gt; was only<BR>&gt; the thirteenth man to ever hold the rank of three stars in American<BR>&gt; History<BR>&gt; (excluding CSA generals). He was promoted to this rank before<BR>&gt; Pershing. D.<BR>&gt; MacArthur also was awarded the MoH (father and son winners) and was<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; sixth man in U.S. History to wear four stars back in 1930. D.<BR>&gt; MacArthur<BR>&gt; actually "out ranked" General Marshall at the beginning of WW II.<BR>&gt; That was<BR>&gt; later rectified by Marshall being awarded his fifth star before<BR>&gt; MacArthur.<BR>&gt; Hope this helps. BTW, I might have King and Leahey reversed, just<BR>&gt; can't<BR>&gt; remember the minutia anymore.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>&gt; "Genuine Antique Person"..been there,done that,can't remember..<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 5:12 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Commodore is presently a position rather than a rank in the USN.<BR>&gt; &gt; Commodores are typically very senior captains who may or may not<BR>&gt; make the<BR>&gt; &gt; step up to the admiralty.<BR>&gt; &gt; I don't believe that they are considerd to be "flag" rank, although<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The Rear Admiral Grade is divided into "lower" and upper" half<BR>&gt; designations.<BR>&gt; &gt; These are followed by vice-admiral and admiral. (3 and 4 stars<BR>&gt; respectively)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The highest rank (5-stars) is called "fleet" admiral and is eserved<BR>&gt; for<BR>&gt; &gt; wartime appointments.&nbsp; Ernest J. King and Arleigh Burke were the<BR>&gt; most<BR>&gt; recent<BR>&gt; &gt; holders IIRC.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; -Dan Lane.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: &lt;david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:58 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;7&nbsp;&nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp; &nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0 (referred to as a<BR>&gt; Vice<BR>&gt; &gt; Admiral)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is probably an error in canon (gasp!) where Rear and Vice<BR>&gt; were<BR>&gt; &gt; switched.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Santanocheev should have been referred to as a Vice Admiral prior<BR>&gt; to his<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; promotion to Sector Admiral, and Elphinstone should be a Rear<BR>&gt; Admiral.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Note that the real-world ranks, in increasing seniority, are as<BR>&gt; follows:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Commodore<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rear Admiral<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Vice Admiral<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Admiral<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!<BR>http://calendar.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:19:18 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>The Republican form of government we have in the U.S. is predicated on a<BR>complex and interlocking series of responsibilities.<BR>Each branch of government has the power to overturn the excesses of the<BR>others, but they must have the will to use it and the wisdom to do so with<BR>restraint. Likewise, the electorate has the power to overturn the excesses<BR>of any branch but the likewise must have the will to exercise it. They<BR>originally did not need the wisdom to do so as factional politics (organized<BR>political parties) were not originally envisioned as an intimate part of the<BR>process. Now wisdom is required as well to know when to exercise the power<BR>to "overthrow" the government during the biennial elections.<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:56:16 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The QSDS<BR><BR>Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Quick Ship Design System (included <BR>in T4) limits acceleration based on the ship's hull? I thought that what the <BR>ship was shaped like didn't matter in space (lack of friction and all...).<BR><BR>(Not that any of this really matters, seeing how I've pretty much made up my <BR>mind to use High Guard with T4.)<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:58:17 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; invested in the situation or outcome. Even judges, trained in fairness<BR>and<BR>&gt; &gt; impartiality, must sometimes dismiss themselves from a case.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I suggest that you look up how judges get the job in the US. Because<BR>&gt; they *don't* get trained for the job!<BR><BR>Doh! Sorry. I meant to chant the mantra that *liberal* judges are paragons<BR>of virtue and fairness, but that constitutionally conservative judges are<BR>automatons, regurgitating the intolerance and hatred that they are bribed to<BR>foist on the oppressed masses by specially interests.<BR><BR>Actually, I was thinking of that law school stuff that they need to know to<BR>pass the bar. Trained was the wrong word. The thought was more akin to<BR>"studied the legal definition" of the terms so that they can avoid being<BR>thrown off of the bench :-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:14:47 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;Actually, I was thinking of that law school stuff that they need to know to<BR>pass the bar. Trained was the wrong word. The thought was more akin to<BR>"studied the legal definition" of the terms so that they can avoid being<BR>thrown off of the bench :-)&lt;<BR><BR>Technically, that isn't the requirement though.<BR>Judicial service is predicated on good behavior, not on legal knowledge.<BR>It is of course incumbent on those appointed judges to non-elected positions<BR>to be sure that their appointees have a reasonable knowledge of the law as<BR>well as reasonable for the electorate to know that those they vote into<BR>positions have such knowledge. But that is not a Constitutional requirement<BR>for office.<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:56:41 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson<BR>&gt; Sent: 10 November 2000 22:28<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: A jack-of-all-trades question<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;14859.51417.992134.368454@dee&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Alun wrote "One thought, that just occured to me while writing this.<BR>&gt; In Book-1 Jack-of-all-Trades is described as ``a well rounded<BR>&gt; renasance man'', I'd assume that the character has read something or<BR>&gt; seen this done before somewhere.&nbsp; JoT could reflect how<BR>&gt; good a memory<BR>&gt; the character has, higher levels indicate photographic or edict (sp)<BR>&gt; capabilities.<BR>&gt;<BR>Couldn't agree more, Megan, so IMTU I use JOAT for any die roll (skill<BR>or UPP-based) where the player says they want to improvise. There's a<BR>straight roll against JOAT to succeed in improvising something, and if<BR>they succeed they get a level shift on the difficulty chart (T4 &amp;<BR>BITS).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Which implies that high levels might make the character a prime<BR>&gt; target for recrutment by the intelligence communities...<BR>&gt; doe's anyone<BR>&gt; ever leave the IISS?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm... that's a very interesting approach. J-o-T as a<BR>&gt; measure of the<BR>&gt; retentiveness of the character's memory.<BR>&gt;<BR>I prefer the ability to improvise rather than remember.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So what level of J-o-T do us eidetic bods have?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mexal.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:01:37 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: "Evan S. Dodd" &lt;esdodd@physics.ucla.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: laser and particle beams (energy wepons) <BR><BR>ok, I'm going to try and answer these questions on energy wepons. I have a<BR>PhD in laser-plasma interactions and have worked on advanced accelerator<BR>concepts at both U of Michigan and UCLA. <BR><BR>1) The damage threshold for most materials is about 5 J/cm^2 * T^1/2<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; where T is the laser pulse length in nanoseconds (10^-9 sec). I pulled<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; this from a review article by some people I knew at Michigan. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; (S. Backus et. al., Rev. Sci. Intr. v69 p1207 (1998).)<BR><BR>2) The larger the mirror the worse the quality of your beam. It is very<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; hard to keep a quality optical surface over a meter or more. The NOVA<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; laser at Livermore National Lab had major problems with beam quality,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; though the people there would always try and down play that. This can<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; be dealt with using adaptive optics to cleam up the beam.<BR><BR>3) For long linacs you can assume a gradient of 10 MeV/m (10^7 volts<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; per meter). RF-photocathode injectors are starting to hit 100 MeV/m,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; over lengths less than 1 m. The maximum electric field before arcing<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; depends on frequency, so S-band microwaves (2.6-3.95 GHz) are used in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; these injectors. For future colliders people are studying W-band<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; (~90 GHz).<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The real ticket here is to stop using metal cavities and move to<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; plasmas (my specialty). Since ionized gases are already broken down<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; they can support very high gradients. In experiments at Michigan, UCLA,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; RAL (England), LULI (France) and a lab in Japan people have measured<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; fields of 1 GeV/cm (10^9 volts per centimeter). At Michigan a 6 TW<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; (TW=10^12 watts) 400 fs (fs=10^-15 sec) laser pulse was focused to<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 10^19 W/cm^2 in a 1 mm gas jet. This produced electrons ranging in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; energy from 1 to 50 MeV. The laser was focus with a 4" parabolic mirror<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; that was gold plated and cost about $10,000.<BR><BR>4) The cross-beam velocity (momentum) varies a lot by method. In the above<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; experiment they achived a beam on a par with the best RF-photocathode<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; injectors. At about 20 MeV this was a transverse p/mc = gamma*beta<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; = 0.1 or 1.0, beta=v/c, gamma = 1/sqrt(1-beta^2). This is for<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; electrons, I don't know what proton and ion sources are like.<BR><BR>5) For some proton machines they actually start with Hydrogen, add a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; second electron which is weakly bound (H-), accelerate and then knock<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the extra electron off with a laser. This was tested in at least one of<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the space based accelerator experiments, launched in the late 1980's.<BR><BR>6) The penetration of charged particle radiation into different materials<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; is well known and published physics handbooks and text books. One text<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; book is D. H. Perkins "Introduction to High Energy Physics". There is<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; another text book with E. Henley as one of the authors, but I can't<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; remember the 2nd author or title off hand. Your numbers don't strike me <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; as too bad, but I'm not an experimentalist.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Lasers are routinely focused to high intensities now. The beam is typically<BR>a few inches across (5-10 cm) in the laser, then focused down to micron<BR>spot sizes. (micron = 10^-6 m). Minimum spot size is limited by diffraction<BR>to the laser wavelength, 1 micron for Nd:Glass systems. This can only be<BR>achieved with perfectly flat phase fronts and an f/1 optical element. f/1<BR>means the mirros diameter is equal to focal length, usually less than 0.5 <BR>meters. The best (smallest) Michigan got was about 1.5 microns, and the<BR>laser jocks had to really fight for that.<BR><BR>There isn't much experience with megajoule lasers. NOVA had 10 seperate<BR>beams of 3 kJ, or 30 kJ total. NIF, its replacement, will have 192 beams<BR>with a total of 2 MJ. These are both lasers for fusion experiments, and<BR>one of a kind. <BR><BR>Evan<BR><BR>P.S. try http://www.achilles.net/~jtalbot/index.html, and follow the link<BR>for images of lasers.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:08:53 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>On 11/10/00 at 09:11 AM,&nbsp; Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:03:38 -0600<BR>&gt;&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Qstor@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Let me ask as well...In all seriousness :-)&nbsp; Does anyone know when GURPS<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Traveller Starships is coming out? I haven't seen it being added to<BR>&gt;playtest.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I know it should have been out by now...I remember it being slated<BR>&gt;before GT<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Modular Cutter...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Durned if I know.&nbsp; MAJ Thrash should have a better idea.<BR><BR>&gt;I had to stand down as the author on GT: Starships, due to time<BR>&gt;conflicts with my real job. This inevitably caused the release date<BR>&gt;to slip, while they found a replacement. Robert Prior is now at the<BR>&gt;conn, and seems to be waiting on a go-ahead from Loren and SJ Games<BR>&gt;before beginning [possibly extended] playtesting, starting with the<BR>&gt;design chapter. Some pre-playtest issues are being hashed out on<BR>&gt;the JTAS discussion boards (which is yet another good reason to<BR>&gt;subscribe), though -- in accordance with SJ Games' policy -- the<BR>&gt;actual playtest will occur on Pyramid.<BR><BR>Let me tell you, I've been looking every few days, just to make sure I didn't miss it too. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3280<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:11:41 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:11:14 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA68985;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:09:18 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:09:07 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA68755<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:09:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:09:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011120309.WAA68755@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3280<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, November 12 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3281<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: The QSDS<BR>Re: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>RE: Strangers in a Strange Land - Amnesia, Reversed<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>The QSDS<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: The QSDS<BR>Remembrance Sunday<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 05:46:53 CET<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The QSDS<BR><BR>&gt;Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Quick Ship Design System \<BR>&gt;(included in T4) limits acceleration based on the ship's hull? I &gt;thought <BR>&gt;that what the ship was shaped like didn't matter in space (lack &gt;of <BR>&gt;friction and all...).<BR>&gt;<BR>The acceleration limit is based on the ability of the hulls internal <BR>structure to withstand acceleration. You could disregard these limits as it <BR>is very cheap to increase the acceleration limits of small hulls as thoose <BR>in the QADS. Most of my smaller FFS designs (5000 dt and less) are rated at <BR>20 Gs or more with little increase of total mass, and QSDS is supposed to be <BR>a subset (sort of) of FFS.<BR><BR>Patrik Holmstrm<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 05:52:54 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:57 AM<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 04:16 PM 11/10/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; This is to prevent you from wandering around town with 25kg of<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; C-4 wired to a dead man's switch to "protect me from muggings."<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; (Yes, I had a player try this in a GURPS game.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Did anyone call his bluff?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Bluff?&nbsp; &lt;bitter laughter, sliding towards the hysterical side&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; (1) For years Craig has bugged me about my pronunciation of the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; word gauss.&nbsp; I was *so* tempted while writing the sidebar about<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Marine traditions to add a note stating that along with using<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; the British form of lieutenant, they also pronounced gauss my<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; way.&nbsp; I resisted the urge.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Okay, so how did you pronounce it and how does&nbsp; Craig&nbsp; reckon&nbsp; it<BR>&gt; &gt;should be pronounced?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Gaw-ss, sounding like "caw" or "ma."&nbsp; The allegedly correct<BR>pronouncition<BR>&gt; is "gows," like "cows."<BR><BR>Well, I've always pronounced it 'gouse' to rhyme with 'house', as that<BR>was the way I was taught to pronounce Gauss in German at school...<BR>slightly harsher than 'gows'.<BR><BR>I know several people who pronounce it to rhyme with 'gorse' or 'gauze',<BR>and I keep correcting them... :)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:08:10 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 11/10/00 at 11:04 PM,&nbsp; Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Washington Did have the one quality that Napoleon believed all<BR>&gt;generals&nbsp; should have. He was lucky. The history of the Colonial<BR>&gt;army under his&nbsp; command is filled with stories that defy belief.<BR><BR>It's interesting that being "lucky" has been attached to successful military leaders in both history and fiction. Rommel, Wellington, Alexander and Nelson were considered lucky, and so are Hammer, Hornblower, Falkenberg, and Harrington. Come to think of it, I think we should add a certain Admiral Norris, Duke of Regina to that list. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:21:43 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 11/11/00 at 11:54 AM,&nbsp; Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Washington Did have the one quality that Napoleon believed all generals <BR>&gt;&gt; should have. He was lucky. The history of the Colonial army under his <BR>&gt;&gt; command is filled with stories that defy belief.<BR><BR>&gt;While Washington lost a whole bunch of battles, he never lost his<BR>&gt;army; they got away to remain a force in being and to fight another<BR>&gt;day.<BR><BR>Quite true!&nbsp; George Washington was the very model of a Communist<BR>Chinese General.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Frankly, Washington wasn't a great military general, but he was a<BR>very good *political* general and a superb leader.&nbsp; He kept his army<BR>together when they were eating boiled boot soup while freezing in<BR>the snow and could have very easily just gone home.&nbsp; He simply<BR>*outlasted* a vastly more powerful opponent, and I sincerely believe<BR>he never lost his respect for England and her people.<BR><BR>You folks realize that just a *little* give on part of the British<BR>government would have been all it took to keep the colonies in the<BR>Empire.&nbsp; Franklin went to England in the early 1770's fully<BR>intending to negotiate a lasting and friendly relationship between<BR>the King and her American subjects...he came back convinced that<BR>independence was inevitable.&nbsp; Ah, well!<BR><BR>I wonder if something of the sort happened between the 3rd Imperium<BR>and the Solomani.&nbsp; What could each side have done to have created a<BR>peaceful and prosperous "Greater Imperium of Humaniti?"<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:31:27 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 11/11/00 at 05:19 PM,&nbsp; "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;The Republican form of government we have in the U.S. is predicated<BR>&gt;on a complex and interlocking series of responsibilities.<BR>&gt;Each branch of government has the power to overturn the excesses of<BR>&gt;the others, but they must have the will to use it and the wisdom to<BR>&gt;do so with restraint. Likewise, the electorate has the power to<BR>&gt;overturn the excesses of any branch but the likewise must have the<BR>&gt;will to exercise it. They originally did not need the wisdom to do<BR>&gt;so as factional politics (organized political parties) were not<BR>&gt;originally envisioned as an intimate part of the process. Now<BR>&gt;wisdom is required as well to know when to exercise the power to<BR>&gt;"overthrow" the government during the biennial elections.<BR><BR>"Checks and Balances," each branch can act as a check on the<BR>excesses of another and each branch is balanced.&nbsp; In a very real<BR>sense, the idea grew out of the Rationalist Movement and the<BR>mechanistic philosophies of the age.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&lt;rant&gt;<BR>The problem with any machine of this sort is that you need a<BR>well-honed feedback system to prevent it from becoming unbalanced<BR>and breaking down.&nbsp; A well-educated and informed electorate is<BR>supposed to be the mechanism that keeps the machine in tune.&nbsp; Not an<BR>ignorant and ill-informed electorate, not an electorate that votes<BR>only its self-interest, not an electorate where only half even<BR>bother to vote, and *certainly* not one that can't correctly mark<BR>their ballot...or even ask for help in doing so!<BR>&lt;/rant&gt;<BR><BR>Eris,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; an embarrassed Floridian<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 06:48:31 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 6:31 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On 11/11/00 at 05:19 PM,&nbsp; "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The Republican form of government we have in the U.S. is predicated<BR>&gt; &gt;on a complex and interlocking series of responsibilities.<BR>&gt; &gt;Each branch of government has the power to overturn the excesses of<BR>&gt; &gt;the others, but they must have the will to use it and the wisdom to<BR>&gt; &gt;do so with restraint. Likewise, the electorate has the power to<BR>&gt; &gt;overturn the excesses of any branch but the likewise must have the<BR>&gt; &gt;will to exercise it. They originally did not need the wisdom to do<BR>&gt; &gt;so as factional politics (organized political parties) were not<BR>&gt; &gt;originally envisioned as an intimate part of the process. Now<BR>&gt; &gt;wisdom is required as well to know when to exercise the power to<BR>&gt; &gt;"overthrow" the government during the biennial elections.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Checks and Balances," each branch can act as a check on the<BR>&gt; excesses of another and each branch is balanced.&nbsp; In a very real<BR>&gt; sense, the idea grew out of the Rationalist Movement and the<BR>&gt; mechanistic philosophies of the age.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;rant&gt;<BR>&gt; The problem with any machine of this sort is that you need a<BR>&gt; well-honed feedback system to prevent it from becoming unbalanced<BR>&gt; and breaking down.&nbsp; A well-educated and informed electorate is<BR>&gt; supposed to be the mechanism that keeps the machine in tune.&nbsp; Not an<BR>&gt; ignorant and ill-informed electorate, not an electorate that votes<BR>&gt; only its self-interest, not an electorate where only half even<BR>&gt; bother to vote, and *certainly* not one that can't correctly mark<BR>&gt; their ballot...or even ask for help in doing so!<BR>&gt; &lt;/rant&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eris,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; an embarrassed Floridian<BR><BR><BR>As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR>members for the formal vote to appoint the president, but why do all the<BR>electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR>Wouldn't a proportional system be a better reflection of the wishes of<BR>the electorate? That way, in the current situation, Florida's 25(?)<BR>votes could be split 13/12. I don't know which way the result would go<BR>if this was applied to all the state votes, but it would make the whole<BR>thing seem more equitable...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 07:26:14 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Strangers in a Strange Land - Amnesia, Reversed<BR><BR>J Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; Here's another spin on the whole "amnesia" thing:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The PCs wake up only to find that everything is different and that<BR>&gt; they aren't who they think they are. (Good for converting to/from<BR>&gt; Trav)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This would be like the one episode of Red Dwarf where they encounter<BR>&gt; the despair squid.<BR><BR>This was also done in the book "The World of Null-A" by&nbsp; A.E. van<BR>Vogt<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 07:42:47 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>Matt Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; Well, I've always pronounced it 'gouse' to rhyme with 'house',<BR>&gt; as that was the way I was taught to pronounce Gauss in German<BR>&gt; at school... slightly harsher than 'gows'.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I know several people who pronounce it to rhyme with 'gorse' or<BR>&gt; 'gauze', and I keep correcting them... :)<BR><BR>Up until about a year ago I've always used the 'gorse' sound (and<BR>occasionally still do when not paying attention) but now I mainly<BR>use the 'house' sound.&nbsp; I did wonder if it&nbsp; should&nbsp; phoenetically<BR>end with a "z" (as in "buzz") instead of a "s" (as in "hiss"):<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gore-ss ... rhymes with gorse<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Ow-ss ... rhymes with house<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Ow-z&nbsp; ... rhymes with dowse<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:44:34 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 11/12/00 at 06:48 AM,&nbsp; "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt;system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days,<BR>&gt;given the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how<BR>&gt;they were going to vote and then send instructions to their<BR>&gt;Electoral College members for the formal vote to appoint the<BR>&gt;president, but why do all the electoral votes for a state have to<BR>&gt;go to only the one candidate? Wouldn't a proportional system be a<BR>&gt;better reflection of the wishes of the electorate? That way, in the<BR>&gt;current situation, Florida's 25(?) votes could be split 13/12. I<BR>&gt;don't know which way the result would go if this was applied to all<BR>&gt;the state votes, but it would make the whole thing seem more<BR>&gt;equitable...<BR><BR>Seeing as this is off topic, I'll try to keep it short.<BR><BR>The Electoral College is part of the Connecticut Compromise that<BR>needed to be made to get the Constitution approved.&nbsp; The fear was<BR>that a few very populous states would be able to dominate the<BR>smaller, less populous, states.&nbsp; The idea of proportional popular<BR>representation in the Congress and equal (2 per state) state<BR>representation in the Senate is part of the same compromise.&nbsp; <BR><BR>In The Electoral College each state receives a number of electors<BR>equal to the number of its Congressional Representatives and<BR>Senators.&nbsp; A low population state, like Rhode Island for example,<BR>receives 3 votes (1 for its Representative and 2 for its Senators)<BR>giving it more influence...proportional to its population than<BR>otherwise.&nbsp; Although, this is decried by rabid (small d) democrats,<BR>it is an important part of our (small r) republic.<BR><BR>A little known fact is that how the electors are apportioned is up<BR>to each state.&nbsp; Maine, and one other state I think, apportion their<BR>electors with 1 elector for the candidate that wins each<BR>congressional district, and 2 for the candidate that wins the<BR>state's popular vote.&nbsp; There is no reason, other than politics and<BR>tradition, that other states couldn't follow suit.<BR><BR>Personally, I favor retention of The Electoral College.&nbsp; OTOH, I<BR>wouldn't be adverse to more states following the Maine model.&nbsp; <BR><BR>This might, or might not, have solved the current problem seeing as<BR>the vote tallies are extremely close all over the country.&nbsp; If you<BR>are outside the US, you may not realize that Bush and Gore were<BR>within a few thousand votes of each other in *several* states, and<BR>that more recounts and challenges could possibly happen next week<BR>when the states certify their vote tallies.<BR><BR>Wish us luck. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:14:01 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 12 Nov 00, at 6:48, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt; system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>&gt; the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>&gt; going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR>&gt; members for the formal vote to appoint the president, but why do all the<BR>&gt; electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR>&gt; Wouldn't a proportional system be a better reflection of the wishes of<BR>&gt; the electorate? That way, in the current situation, Florida's 25(?)<BR>&gt; votes could be split 13/12. I don't know which way the result would go<BR>&gt; if this was applied to all the state votes, but it would make the whole<BR>&gt; thing seem more equitable...<BR><BR>As I understand it, the Electorial Collage actually elects the President from <BR>the candidates, but how they vote is determined by popular vote in the <BR>state (whoever wins that gets all the states votes). There's nothing to stop <BR>a state from spliting it's votes according to the popular vote, but I guess <BR>they figure the winner will be more grateful for 25 votes than 13.<BR><BR>What amazes me is that everybody finds this situation all so remarkable. <BR>Given the very nature of "first past the post/winner take all" systems, this <BR>was pretty much inevitable. Up until we changed to proportional <BR>representation a few years ago, everything thats happening (judicial <BR>recounts, results hanging on a single electorate, the winner getting less <BR>votes overall than the loser...) in the US was standard fare for every NZ <BR>election. What amazes me is that the US somehow managed to avoid this <BR>happening before (sometimes blind dumb luck is just unbelievable).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:52:48 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; GRAPE KETCHUP<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5 lb Grapes; picked<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 2 1/2 lb Sugar<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 pt Cider vinegar<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 1 1/2 T&nbsp; Salt<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Clove<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Black pepper<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Allspice<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Cinnamon<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Stew grapes and put through a colander;&nbsp; then add the other<BR>&gt;&nbsp; ingredients and boil all together until a little thick.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --- Mrs. C. E. Davis<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Webster Woman's Club, 1922<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; per Perry Lowell<BR><BR>This I'm gonna have to try.<BR><BR>&gt; Klingon Tea...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "What do you mean you forgot to bring the antidote along with the tea?!"<BR><BR>I must have missed this one.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;<BR>For he today that sheds his blood with me<BR>Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so lowly,<BR>This day shall enoble his rank.<BR><BR>Henry V - William Shakespeare<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:41:28 +0000<BR>From: Martin Hardgrave &lt;martin@deira.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In message &lt;790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E675EA185@VIR&gt;, "Jones, Dean"<BR>&lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; writes<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; In message &lt;NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEMICGAA.carlino@home.com&gt;, Terry<BR>&gt;&gt; Carlino &lt;carlino@home.com&gt; writes<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Oh Oh, now you've done it Leonard. You've almost used their <BR>&gt;&gt; name in direct<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;violation of their iron clad patent<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^^^^<BR>&gt;&gt; ITYM "clam" HTH HAND<BR><BR>&gt;Huh?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dean<BR><BR>One of ole L Ron's seekrit teachings is that humans are descended from<BR>clams.<BR>- -- <BR>Martin Hardgrave<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 05:28:39 -0500<BR>From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt;system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>&gt;the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>&gt;going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR><BR>Travel time was not a very consequential idea behind the Electoral College.<BR><BR>&gt;members for the formal vote to appoint the president, but why do all the<BR>&gt;electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR><BR>They *don't* have to.&nbsp; An elector is partially a _representative_, not a<BR>delegate, at least according to Burke's definition.<BR><BR>Maine and Nebraska out and out splits the electors it has depending on<BR>whether a candidate won a congressional district.&nbsp; Traditionally, electors<BR>from a single state voted for the person who won it.&nbsp; (Then again, Nebraska<BR>is a *strange* state...the only state in the Union to have a unicameral<BR>legislature, though some people in Minnesota want that too.)<BR><BR>BUT, there is nothing in the Constitution which says they ALL have to vote<BR>that way.&nbsp; IIRC, half of the state's electors have to go to the guy who won<BR>the state.&nbsp; The other half can vote for whomever they want, even those not<BR>running.<BR><BR>(In 1988, an elector from West Virginia voted for Lloyd Bentsen for<BR>President and Mike Dukakis for Veep.&nbsp; The pair, reversed, had been the<BR>Democratic ticket that won the state.)<BR><BR>&gt;Wouldn't a proportional system be a better reflection of the wishes of<BR>&gt;the electorate? That way, in the current situation, Florida's 25(?)<BR><BR>No.<BR><BR>First off, if you are planning to do it like that, why bother having<BR>electors?&nbsp; Just take the popular vote.<BR><BR>Second, taking popular vote would reduce the power of small<BR>(Population-wise.) states to determine elections.&nbsp; That's why the Electoral<BR>College is safe from snap-decision tinkering.<BR><BR>Third, by amalgamating all the voters into one large pool, you significantly<BR>reduce the ability of any ONE voter to determine an election.&nbsp; If you want<BR>voter apathy, that is a good way to get it.<BR><BR>&gt;votes could be split 13/12. I don't know which way the result would go<BR>&gt;if this was applied to all the state votes, but it would make the whole<BR>&gt;thing seem more equitable...<BR><BR>Which is very much a bogus argument.&nbsp; You don't really achieve equity of<BR>voting power for each voter even WITH a proportional system.&nbsp; Indeed, it<BR>gets worse in many ways.&nbsp; In many ways, the electoral system gives more<BR>power to the voter then proportional does.<BR><BR>For an interesting article on the electoral system:<BR><BR>http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm<BR><BR>C.T.<BR><BR>"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."<BR>Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.<BR><BR>Search the Net and Make Some Cash:<BR>http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng<BR>http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024 <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:59:42 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 12 Nov 00, at 5:28, Cheng Tseng wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; For an interesting article on the electoral system:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm<BR><BR>I've seen this argument before. However, it fails when there are more than <BR>two choices (those voting for third parties are effectively disenfranchised), <BR>and the nature of the system ensures that there will only be two choices <BR>because those voting for third parties are effectively disenfrancised).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 07:06:08 -0700<BR>From: "David J. Golden" &lt;goldendj@pcisys.net&gt;<BR>Subject: The QSDS<BR><BR>At 10:09 pm 11/11/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:56:16 CST<BR>&gt;From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: The QSDS<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Quick Ship Design System<BR>(included <BR>&gt;in T4) limits acceleration based on the ship's hull? I thought that<BR>what the <BR>&gt;ship was shaped like didn't matter in space (lack of friction and<BR>all...).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It's not how the hull is shaped, rather it's how strong the<BR>structure is. Higher accelerations require more structure (internal<BR>bracing, etc.), and the hulls in QSDS were designed for a certain<BR>maximum acceleration.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 03:13:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt; system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>&gt; the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>&gt; going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR>&gt; members for the formal vote to appoint the president,<BR><BR>The vote isn't "formal". If you read a ballot carefully, you'll find<BR>that you *aren't* voting for President. You are voting for an elector<BR>to represent your interests when the electoral college meets. <BR><BR>Except for electors from some states that have laws requiring them to,<BR>they don't even have to vote for the candidate that you "voted for"! <BR>It's only happened a few times, but it has happened.<BR><BR>&gt; but why do all the<BR>&gt; electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR>&gt; Wouldn't a proportional system be a better reflection of the wishes of<BR>&gt; the electorate? That way, in the current situation, Florida's 25(?)<BR>&gt; votes could be split 13/12.<BR><BR>Some states *do* do it that way. That's something covered by *state*<BR>law, not federal law.<BR><BR>And if the initial vote by the electors results in a tie, all bets are<BR>off. Then they get to decide who to vote for in the *next* round of<BR>voting. <BR><BR>&gt; I don't know which way the result would go<BR>&gt; if this was applied to all the state votes, but it would make the whole<BR>&gt; thing seem more equitable...<BR><BR>Well, as I keep telling people the US isn't a democracy and was never<BR>intended to be one. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 03:26:45 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: The QSDS<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Quick Ship Design System (included <BR>&gt; in T4) limits acceleration based on the ship's hull? I thought that what the <BR>&gt; ship was shaped like didn't matter in space (lack of friction and all...).<BR><BR>True, but the shape *does* affect how the ship responds to acceleration<BR>forces. <BR><BR>Forces from friction vary with the *velocity* of the craft. And in a<BR>frictional medium, your speed quickly reaches the point where thrust is<BR>equal to drag. The only acceleration is starting and stopping, and when<BR>you turn.<BR><BR>In space, there's no drag, so as long as you are supplying thrust, you<BR>are accelerating. And changing course doesn't change the acceleration<BR>much, while *rotating* the ship, doesn't affect course.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:21:50 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;<BR>Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.<BR>At the going down of the sun and in the morning<BR>We will remember them.<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:36:35 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Bond<BR>&gt; Sent: Sunday, 12 November 2000 1:53 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:57 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; At 04:16 PM 11/10/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; This is to prevent you from wandering around town with 25kg of<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; C-4 wired to a dead man's switch to "protect me from muggings."<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; (Yes, I had a player try this in a GURPS game.)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Did anyone call his bluff?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Bluff?&nbsp; &lt;bitter laughter, sliding towards the hysterical side&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; (1) For years Craig has bugged me about my pronunciation of the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; word gauss.&nbsp; I was *so* tempted while writing the sidebar about<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Marine traditions to add a note stating that along with using<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; the British form of lieutenant, they also pronounced gauss my<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; way.&nbsp; I resisted the urge.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Okay, so how did you pronounce it and how does&nbsp; Craig&nbsp; reckon&nbsp; it<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;should be pronounced?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Gaw-ss, sounding like "caw" or "ma."&nbsp; The allegedly correct<BR>&gt; pronouncition<BR>&gt; &gt; is "gows," like "cows."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, I've always pronounced it 'gouse' to rhyme with 'house', as that<BR>&gt; was the way I was taught to pronounce Gauss in German at school...<BR>&gt; slightly harsher than 'gows'.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I know several people who pronounce it to rhyme with 'gorse' or 'gauze',<BR>&gt; and I keep correcting them... :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Matt<BR>&gt;<BR>Dont forget to adjust the pronounciation of Gorse based on several thousand<BR>years of vowl drift and softening of consonants.<BR><BR>Therefore a possible pronounciation of gauss would be juice.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3281<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, November 12 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3282<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR>Re: Washington<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Washington<BR>re: The QSDS<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>OT Re: Washington<BR>Re: OT Re: Washington<BR>Gauss? In the Imperium? ....&nbsp; MooOOOOO!<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>RE: Washington<BR>The P Word<BR>Traveller Fiction<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 08:45:51 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR><BR>Commodore in peacetime is used to designate a senior captain in charge of a<BR>squadron or other grouping (yes, such as a JTF) that is more extensive than<BR>a single ship.&nbsp; It is a poosition but not a rank.&nbsp; The officer's rank is<BR>still Captain.&nbsp; However, the Commodore still rates a pennant which includes<BR>his squadron or task force. This makes a commodore intermediate between<BR>field grade and flag ranks.&nbsp; In wartime, commodore has been used as a rank.<BR>In fact, it was the most senior rank attainable by officers in the early US.<BR>Navy before the USN (Congress?) relented and allowed the more European style<BR>rank.<BR><BR>BTW, this will depend ofn the JTF. JTF 160 (the "Haitian Migration" JTF back<BR>in GTMO in 1995 and 1996) was commanded by a USMC Brigadier General.&nbsp; He<BR>looked like a stereotypical USMC Brigadier.&nbsp; Impresive man.&nbsp; Tremendous<BR>physical and moral courage.&nbsp;&nbsp; Don't believe for a second that we don't<BR>choose our top officers well.<BR><BR>-Dan Lane<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Gerry Harris" &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 5:13 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; When working with the Hurricane Andrew relief effort, the senior Navy<BR>&gt; officer on site was a captain.&nbsp; His title, though, was commodore, as he<BR>&gt; was in charge of a JTF (Joint Task Force).&nbsp; So, yes, commodore is used<BR>&gt; in peacetime.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 08:51:59 -0500<BR>From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;On 12 Nov 00, at 5:28, Cheng Tseng wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; For an interesting article on the electoral system:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I've seen this argument before. However, it fails when there are more than <BR>&gt;two choices (those voting for third parties are effectively disenfranchised), <BR>&gt;and the nature of the system ensures that there will only be two choices <BR>&gt;because those voting for third parties are effectively disenfrancised).<BR><BR>Tell that to Henry Clay or better, Andrew Jackson.<BR><BR>The historical record of the electoral system seem to indicate that your<BR>argument is not necessarily absolutely true.&nbsp; It appears that way today, but<BR>then again, the two main parties in the US are each much broader in the<BR>kinds of people belonging to it (Much to the chagrin of many people.) then<BR>any country that does not boast of a party of "national unity" or "national<BR>solidarity."<BR><BR>Looking at American history of the last fifty years, the parties that narrow<BR>themselves to a niche are just that, parties with niche population appeal.<BR>And the third "party" candidates that might have been strong contenders<BR>relied on personality as much as ideology to draw votes.<BR><BR>C.T.<BR><BR>"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."<BR>Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.<BR><BR>Search the Net and Make Some Cash:<BR>http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng<BR>http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024 <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:57:06 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; Dont forget to adjust the pronounciation of Gorse based on several<BR>&gt; thousand years of vowl drift and softening of consonants.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Therefore a possible pronounciation of gauss would be juice.<BR><BR>So "gauss" rhyming with "juice" would&nbsp; sound&nbsp; like&nbsp; ...&nbsp; "goose".<BR>Does that mean if you are hit by gauss weapon fire you&nbsp; could&nbsp; be<BR>said to have been 'goosed'?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:06:27 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Trevor, Peter<BR>&gt; Sent: Sunday, 12 November 2000 9:57 PM<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Dont forget to adjust the pronounciation of Gorse based on several<BR>&gt; &gt; thousand years of vowl drift and softening of consonants.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Therefore a possible pronounciation of gauss would be juice.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So "gauss" rhyming with "juice" would&nbsp; sound&nbsp; like&nbsp; ...&nbsp; "goose".<BR>&gt; Does that mean if you are hit by gauss weapon fire you&nbsp; could&nbsp; be<BR>&gt; said to have been 'goosed'?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>I can see it now, quick break out the goose grease.<BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 08:50:58 -0600<BR>From: D Smart &lt;dsmart@imagin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>Samuel D. Weiss posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Republican form of government we have in the U.S. is predicated on a<BR>&gt; complex and interlocking series of responsibilities.<BR>&gt; Each branch of government has the power to overturn the excesses of the<BR>&gt; others, but they must have the will to use it and the wisdom to do so with<BR>&gt; restraint. Likewise, the electorate has the power to overturn the excesses<BR>&gt; of any branch but the likewise must have the will to exercise it. They<BR>&gt; originally did not need the wisdom to do so as factional politics (organized<BR>&gt; political parties) were not originally envisioned as an intimate part of the<BR>&gt; process. Now wisdom is required as well to know when to exercise the power<BR>&gt; to "overthrow" the government during the biennial elections.<BR><BR>Not to mention the wisdom to know when to use the final<BR>option for<BR>overthrowing a government as implied by the U.S.<BR>Constitution.<BR><BR>That's why the "right to bear arms" is explicitly stated.<BR>T'ain't<BR>for huntin' squirrels and rabbits.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:54:41 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: The QSDS<BR><BR>At 22:09 -0500 11/11/00, "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Quick Ship Design System (included<BR>&gt;in T4) limits acceleration based on the ship's hull? I thought that what the<BR>&gt;ship was shaped like didn't matter in space (lack of friction and all...).<BR><BR>I suspect that it has something to do with the amount of structural <BR>bracing that a hull can provide. Different geometries will affect <BR>this and the corresponding amount of volume available for practical <BR>use.<BR><BR>&gt;(Not that any of this really matters, seeing how I've pretty much made up my<BR>&gt;mind to use High Guard with T4.)<BR><BR>Yup. That's what I do.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:01:56 -0000<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; Dont forget to adjust the pronounciation of Gorse based on several<BR>&gt; thousand years of vowl drift and softening of consonants.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Therefore a possible pronounciation of gauss would be juice.<BR><BR>So "gauss" rhyming with "juice" would&nbsp; sound&nbsp; like&nbsp; ...&nbsp; "goose".<BR>Does that mean if you are hit by gauss weapon fire you&nbsp; could&nbsp; be<BR>said to have been 'goosed'?<BR>&lt;&lt;<BR>For all those in the UK, would one say that a Scouse pronouncing "gauss"<BR>like 'house' may sound like "goose"?<BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:47:09 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: OT Re: Washington<BR><BR>At 08:43 -0500 12/11/00, howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng) wrote:<BR>&gt;Second, taking popular vote would reduce the power of small<BR>&gt;(Population-wise.) states to determine elections.&nbsp; That's why the Electoral<BR>&gt;College is safe from snap-decision tinkering.<BR><BR>The European Union divides the level of representation amongst states <BR>based upon the population numbers. The net result is that Germany, <BR>France, Italy and the UK have the highest levels of representation in <BR>the parliament. (It used to be equal, but I'm not sure if Germany's <BR>level has gone up since they re-unified). From what I can see from <BR>the US and UK media coverage (and shoot me down if I'm wrong here), <BR>you effectively have the same with the electoral college - smaller <BR>states having less votes. Maybe it isn't tied directly to population <BR>in the same way as the EU (or the UK for that matter), but it is <BR>weighted.&nbsp; In the UK, we used to vote our European MPs in with First <BR>Past the Post - this has now changed to PR, with no real observable <BR>effect at the moment.<BR><BR>Does this come from&nbsp; the notion that all the states should have equal <BR>weight in determining the president?<BR><BR>&gt;Which is very much a bogus argument.&nbsp; You don't really achieve equity of<BR>&gt;voting power for each voter even WITH a proportional system.&nbsp; Indeed, it<BR>&gt;gets worse in many ways.&nbsp; In many ways, the electoral system gives more<BR>&gt;power to the voter then proportional does.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>However, a PR system does represent views when more than two options <BR>are available - for example, you could (with STV) rate your favoured <BR>candidate/party highest, the lesser of two evils next, and not vote <BR>at all for a party you oppose. It helps to break a deadlock, where <BR>voters are afraid to vote for the candidate they prefer because it <BR>may let an opponent in.<BR><BR>The whole Floridan thing is quite interesting to watch from a outside <BR>perspective. I actually surprised that this took so long to hit TML.<BR><BR>ObTrav: All the Moot representatives are nominally nobles. However, <BR>would the Imperium accept a noble representative who was voted to the <BR>position of heir (for example).<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:40:44 -0500<BR>From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)<BR>Subject: Re: OT Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;Does this come from&nbsp; the notion that all the states should have equal <BR>&gt;weight in determining the president?<BR><BR>No, but it means that smaller states will have a meaningful amount of power<BR>in determining who wins the presidency.<BR><BR>If it was proportional, the smaller states would have far less power, and<BR>hence, far less reasons to be courted.<BR><BR>&gt;However, a PR system does represent views when more than two options <BR>&gt;are available - for example, you could (with STV) rate your favoured <BR><BR>Where, with an electoral system, does it only allow two parties?<BR><BR>The reason why it _appears_ that way in the US today, I submitt, would be<BR>the evolution of the different political parties.&nbsp; That does not rule out it<BR>plurality of candidates.<BR><BR>&gt;candidate/party highest, the lesser of two evils next, and not vote <BR>&gt;at all for a party you oppose. It helps to break a deadlock, where <BR>&gt;voters are afraid to vote for the candidate they prefer because it <BR>&gt;may let an opponent in.<BR><BR>That strikes me as rather cumbersome.<BR><BR>Even with systems that are proportional, there seems to be a trend towards<BR>two "final" candidates running for the position.&nbsp; All the others get<BR>winnowed-out via run-offs.<BR><BR>&gt;The whole Floridan thing is quite interesting to watch from a outside <BR>&gt;perspective. I actually surprised that this took so long to hit TML.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;ObTrav: All the Moot representatives are nominally nobles. However, <BR>&gt;would the Imperium accept a noble representative who was voted to the <BR>&gt;position of heir (for example).<BR><BR>Didn't the Towering entry from the Hubworlds in the TNE rulebook say the<BR>system had a history of no nobles?<BR><BR>C.T.<BR><BR>"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."<BR>Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.<BR><BR>Search the Net and Make Some Cash:<BR>http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng<BR>http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024 <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:58:41 EST<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Gauss? In the Imperium? ....&nbsp; MooOOOOO!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;Okay, so how did you pronounce it and how does&nbsp; Craig&nbsp; reckon&nbsp; it<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;should be pronounced?<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Gaw-ss, sounding like "caw" or "ma."&nbsp; The allegedly correct<BR>&gt;&gt; pronouncition<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; is "gows," like "cows."<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Well, I've always pronounced it 'gouse' to rhyme with 'house', as that<BR>&gt;&gt; was the way I was taught to pronounce Gauss in German at school...<BR>&gt;&gt; slightly harsher than 'gows'.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I know several people who pronounce it to rhyme with 'gorse' or 'gauze',<BR>&gt;&gt; and I keep correcting them... :)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Matt<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;Dont forget to adjust the pronounciation of Gorse based on several thousand<BR>&gt;years of vowl drift and softening of consonants.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Therefore a possible pronounciation of gauss would be juice.<BR><BR>Another, particularly given the illustrated shape of the Gauss Rifle in some <BR>places, would be "grease."<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 09:26:09 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>D Smart wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Not to mention the wisdom to know when to use the final option for<BR>&gt; overthrowing a government as implied by the U.S.<BR>&gt; Constitution.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's why the "right to bear arms" is explicitly stated.<BR>&gt; T'ain't<BR>&gt; for huntin' squirrels and rabbits.<BR><BR>I think a much better interpretation is that it allows people to defend<BR>the Constitution from a government (foreign or domestic) that would<BR>overthrow the Constitution.&nbsp; Hence, the preamble: "A well regulated<BR>Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State".&nbsp; Note that US<BR>soldiers take an oath to defend the Constitution, not the government.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:29:05 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>Eris wrote,<BR>&gt;Checks and Balances," each branch can act as a check on the<BR>excesses of another and each branch is balanced.&nbsp; In a very real<BR>sense, the idea grew out of the Rationalist Movement and the<BR>mechanistic philosophies of the age.&nbsp; &lt;<BR><BR>Balance actually isn't an issue. The various branches have rather different<BR>levels of power. What is more relevant is that the actual functioning power<BR>of each branch is not exclusive to it. The Executive has legislative and<BR>judicial power. The Legislature has executive and judicial power. The<BR>judiciary has legislative and executive power.<BR>Also, each branch has differing requirements and&nbsp; standards that stabilize<BR>their interactions. Look at the differences in how pay can be allocated and<BR>altered between the different branches.<BR><BR>As for the electoral college, I also agree with Eris that all states should<BR>apportion their votes as does Maine and Nebraska. Indeed, I think the<BR>ballots should be clearly marked as to the allocation of votes for specific<BR>electors and not for the candidates. This, to me, is truer to both the<BR>republican and democratic traditions of the U.S.<BR><BR>David Smart wrote,<BR>&gt;Not to mention the wisdom to know when to use the final<BR>option for<BR>overthrowing a government as implied by the U.S.<BR>Constitution.<BR><BR>That's why the "right to bear arms" is explicitly stated.<BR>T'ain't<BR>for huntin' squirrels and rabbits.&lt;<BR><BR>This is incorrect. The right in question refers to the need for a defense<BR>force to prevent both foreign invasion and to quell domestic riots such as<BR>Shays rebellion. This is made quite clear by both the language of the<BR>Constitution itself which reserves the right of raising armies to the<BR>Federal government as well as the right of establishing the requirements for<BR>a militia to it as well as the explicit language of the amendment which<BR>begins by calling attention to the need for a well-regulated militia.<BR>People commonly attempt to attribute the feelings of others who were neither<BR>authors of the Constitution or who were outright enemies of it on this<BR>matter. Violent overthrow&nbsp; or dissolution of the government was never to be<BR>an option again under the Constitution, or indeed under the Articles of<BR>Confederation that preceded it. Indeed, peaceful separation was not even a<BR>possibility. It was intended as an eternal and unbreakable union.<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:06:30 -0500<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>The problem with a proportional system is the fact that within the same<BR>Constitutional Amendment (the 12th I believe) that sets up the Electoral<BR>College is the fact that the winner must receive over 50% of the electoral<BR>votes (270 for the current election).&nbsp; If nobody receives the required<BR>amount then the House of Representatives is called together and each state<BR>is given one vote.&nbsp; This vote must be cast for one of the top two candidates<BR>and the vote must be approved by the state governor.&nbsp; The reason the<BR>all-or-nothing system started was to keep the House from being tied up every<BR>four years...<BR><BR>Anthony<BR>&gt; As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt; system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>&gt; the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>&gt; going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR>&gt; members for the formal vote to appoint the president, but why do all the<BR>&gt; electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR>&gt; Wouldn't a proportional system be a better reflection of the wishes of<BR>&gt; the electorate? That way, in the current situation, Florida's 25(?)<BR>&gt; votes could be split 13/12. I don't know which way the result would go<BR>&gt; if this was applied to all the state votes, but it would make the whole<BR>&gt; thing seem more equitable...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Matt<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.209 / Virus Database: 99 - Release Date: 11/2/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:03:39 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Washington<BR><BR>"This is incorrect. The right in question refers to the need for a defense<BR>force to prevent both foreign invasion and to quell domestic riots such as<BR>Shays rebellion. This is made quite clear by both the language of the<BR>Constitution itself which reserves the right of raising armies to the<BR>Federal government as well as the right of establishing the requirements for<BR>a militia to it as well as the explicit language of the amendment which<BR>begins by calling attention to the need for a well-regulated militia.<BR>People commonly attempt to attribute the feelings of others who were neither<BR>authors of the Constitution or who were outright enemies of it on this<BR>matter. Violent overthrow&nbsp; or dissolution of the government was never to be<BR>an option again under the Constitution, or indeed under the Articles of<BR>Confederation that preceded it. Indeed, peaceful separation was not even a<BR>possibility. It was intended as an eternal and unbreakable union.<BR><BR>Sam"<BR><BR>Regarding the 2nd. Amendment: Case law says otherwise. The National Guard<BR>was determined not to be the militia in the early 1900s. The decision hinged<BR>on laws enacted in 1794 and 1812 that made the National Guard a separate<BR>branch of the armed forces.<BR><BR>The Articles of Confederation DID allow for dissolution (Voluntarily or even<BR>expelling a state, under certain conditions) specifically. This served as<BR>the "legal" basis for the Confederacy. The Articles of Confederation were<BR>weak in that no taxes could be levied, and no laws could be enforced across<BR>all of the states - there was no central authority that applied INSIDE of<BR>the individual states past the States Legislative, Executive and Judicial<BR>Branches. Similar to how the Imperium works. ;-)<BR><BR>Note that up until fairly recently (The 1900s) divisions of the U.S. Army<BR>were trained and based in the state where they were formed, and most units<BR>were identified by the State from which they came in some form or another:<BR>this is a holdover from the colonies. To a lesser extent, this also existed<BR>in the early infancy of the U.S. Navy - ships were provided to the<BR>Department of War by a State or Colony.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 09:39:24 -0800<BR>From: "Wayne" &lt;ewart67@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The P Word<BR><BR>Hello All<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Just read "The Stars Asunder" by Debra Doyle &amp; James D. MacDonald. (It<BR>is the 6th Mageworlds book.) In the book, the Eraasi, have a new twist on<BR>pirates. One of the characters comes into information about a rival shipping<BR>company's cargo (some vary rare item worth lots). He tell his Captain about<BR>it, and the Captain has their ship head off to free this cargo from the<BR>rival line. After some fancy driving and space combat (no major damage to<BR>either ship), boarding actions take place. The attacking ship forms up all<BR>free hands and arms them for boarding. The defending ship does the same. The<BR>two groups meet in the airlock between the to ships.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Now for the twist, the Chief hand from each ship meet in hand to hand<BR>combat, all others watching. Combat is to the first blood only, after witch<BR>the losing ship puts on a party for the winning ship (dinner, dancing, and<BR>drinking). As well, the losing Captain hands over his ships manifest to<BR>the winning Captain to take his pick of the cargo.Who takes the vary rare<BR>item worth lots.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I plan on using this in MTU, I just need to find the right area to place<BR>this group of gentleman pirates. Any suggestions.<BR><BR><BR>Wayne<BR>ewart67@home.com<BR>icq22113294<BR><BR>The wage of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the<BR>evil get to go home early on Friday.<BR>- - Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad<BR>(Terry Pratchett)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:45:14 -0000<BR>From: "MJ Dougherty" &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller Fiction<BR><BR>More Traveller fiction has appeared on the reconstructed FFN site.<BR><BR>go to www.fiction-fantasy.net<BR><BR>then Game Related Fiction in the left-hand side menu<BR><BR>and then Traveller....<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:31:28 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;Regarding the 2nd. Amendment: Case law says otherwise. The National Guard<BR>was determined not to be the militia in the early 1900s. The decision hinged<BR>on laws enacted in 1794 and 1812 that made the National Guard a separate<BR>branch of the armed forces.&lt;<BR><BR>Case law supports this fully. What is differs on, and what it is fully<BR>entitled to differ on, is the interpretation of certain other considerations<BR>that you mention here. It in no way supports or suggests anything different<BR>from what I said (that raising and maintaining armies is exclusively<BR>reserved to the federal government and that insurrection is not an<BR>acceptable method of changing the government established under the<BR>Constitution) no matter how much anyone wishes to say otherwise. attempts to<BR>change the subject, or specifically ignores relevant case law.<BR>This means that any militia to be legitimate must be organized under rules<BR>established by Congress and overseen by the individual States and puts the<BR>lie to groups claiming otherwise and seizing the name for themselves.<BR>It also suggests that the unrestrictiable right to be kept in arms is<BR>transferable to any branch of the standing army.<BR><BR>&gt;The Articles of Confederation DID allow for dissolution (Voluntarily or<BR>even<BR>expelling a state, under certain conditions) specifically. &lt;<BR><BR>Which, as with most requirements for change under the Articles means the<BR>unanimous consent of all the members and not unilateral decisions. Thus the<BR>illegitimacy of the rebellious states.<BR>Indeed, the proposal for the Constitution itself may indeed have been a<BR>technical violation of Article 13 of those Articles which covered this.<BR>Fortunately, since every state approved it, the point became moot.<BR><BR>&gt;Note that up until fairly recently (The 1900s) divisions of the U.S. Army<BR>were trained and based in the state where they were formed, and most units<BR>were identified by the State from which they came in some form or another:<BR>this is a holdover from the colonies. To a lesser extent, this also existed<BR>in the early infancy of the U.S. Navy - ships were provided to the<BR>Department of War by a State or Colony.&lt;<BR><BR>None of which alters the fact that no standing forces may be maintained by<BR>any agency other than the federal government.<BR>Indeed, the failures of the decentralized system are one of the primary<BR>reasons why it was granted exclusively to the federal government. Preventing<BR>insurrection being the other of course.<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:49:13 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;This vote must be cast for one of the top two candidates<BR>and the vote must be approved by the state governor.&nbsp; The reason the<BR>all-or-nothing system started was to keep the House from being tied up every<BR>four years...&lt;<BR><BR>It is from the top three candidates and does not require approval of the<BR>Governor.<BR>What it could do is make it more likely that a party that controls more<BR>states would be picking the President against the will of the people. That,<BR>or given split state that couldn't agree and a regular third party candidate<BR>drawing off some votes, an inability to select a President and a regular<BR>election of a Vice-president who would assume the office instead. If that<BR>likewise proves impossible the elections would then be within the House and<BR>Senate themselves for Speak and President Pro Tem who would become President<BR>and Vice-president.<BR>Now that would certainly be intriguing.<BR>:)<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:17:28 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/12/00 1:47:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk writes:<BR><BR>&gt; As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt;&nbsp; system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>&gt;&nbsp; going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR>&gt;&nbsp; members for the formal vote to appoint the president, but why do all the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Wouldn't a proportional system be a better reflection of the wishes of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the electorate? That way, in the current situation, Florida's 25(?)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; votes could be split 13/12. I don't know which way the result would go<BR>&gt;&nbsp; if this was applied to all the state votes, but it would make the whole<BR>&gt;&nbsp; thing seem more equitable...<BR><BR>The Electoral College is a direct result of a hugely political compromise<BR>during the Constitutional Convention.&nbsp; It exists primarily so that the<BR>algorithms for determining representation in Congress (themselves the<BR>result of several big, fat political compromises) could also be applied to<BR>the election of a President.<BR><BR>As for why 48 out of 50 states use a "winner take all" system, you'd<BR>have to ask the state governments, since they determine for themselves<BR>how voting takes place locally.&nbsp; Personally I suspect it has to do with the<BR>fact that the Democratic and Republican parties are more comfortable<BR>just competing with each other than with a clutch of smaller parties.<BR>If the allocation of electoral votes was proportional, small parties would<BR>have much more ability to get into the system -- as it is, they're effectively<BR>shut out.<BR><BR>OBTrav: How may big, fat, stinking political compromises (the kind that<BR>allow politics to go on at all, but look really stupid from the perspective<BR>of history) have gone into the form and workings of the modern Imperium?<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:41:37 -0600<BR>From: Stormhound &lt;stormhnd@fidnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Okay, y'all were askin' for this...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; If all states were to use a system like Maine's (2 votes for the overall<BR>votegetter, plus 1 for each congressional district won), the election would've<BR>been decided already based upon the voting for members of Congress (no, it's<BR>not perfect, but they're the best numbers I can put together without doing<BR>many more hours of research than this merits).&nbsp; The numbers as they stand<BR>would be:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Bush: 278&nbsp; 2*29 states, plus 220 districts.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gore: 252&nbsp; 2*20 states, plus 211 districts, plus 1 for DC (since it has no<BR>representative).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Undetermined: 8 (NM, 2 for state; FL, 2 for state and 1 for district<BR>(#22); NJ, 1 for district (#12); 2 independent districts)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (Some networks don't give Oregon to Gore, so that would slide 2 more to<BR>the undetermined column.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Bush would win, the people of Florida could be left to haggle to their own<BR>satisfaction, and the rest of the country could enjoy watching something<BR>besides the politicians haggling and the stock market tanking.&nbsp; There are some<BR>reasons for not doing this, though...redistricting springs right to mind.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Stormhound<BR>DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:20:17 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>On 11/11/00 at 07:57 AM,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Okay, so how did you pronounce it and how does&nbsp; Craig&nbsp; reckon&nbsp; it<BR>&gt;&gt;should be pronounced?<BR><BR>&gt;Gaw-ss, sounding like "caw" or "ma."&nbsp; The allegedly correct<BR>&gt;pronouncition is "gows," like "cows."<BR><BR>Hum, I pronouce it gow-ss, gow like cow, but with a stretched out s.<BR>Of course, with my drawl *everything* is stretched out.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Re:&nbsp; law levels...I put gauss weapons at LL3 and plasma/fusion<BR>weapons at LL2.&nbsp; LL1 is for "undetectable" concealed weapons (the<BR>plastic body pistols), high-explosives, and poison gas.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3282<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, November 13 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3283<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>Re: Book Reviews (Re: to Mexal's post)<BR>Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR>Re: Washington<BR>re: Gauss? In the Imperium? ....&nbsp; MooOOOOO!<BR>Imperial Navy command levels<BR>[www] 12 Nov 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Sayat?<BR>Re: Sayat?<BR>Type 4 Govts (was: Washington)<BR>World/System Generators?<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Classic Traveller Reprints<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: Classic Traveller Reprints<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Classic Traveller Reprints<BR>Did I miss something???<BR>Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR>Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:29:34 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>On 11/12/00 at 07:42 AM,&nbsp; "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Up until about a year ago I've always used the 'gorse' sound (and<BR>&gt;occasionally still do when not paying attention) but now I mainly<BR>&gt;use the 'house' sound.&nbsp; I did wonder if it&nbsp; should&nbsp; phoenetically<BR>&gt;end with a "z" (as in "buzz") instead of a "s" (as in "hiss"):<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Gore-ss ... rhymes with gorse<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Ow-ss ... rhymes with house<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Ow-z&nbsp; ... rhymes with dowse<BR><BR>Whoa!&nbsp; I pronounce the last two alike...sometimes &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>In my neck of the woods, house has two different sounds depending on<BR>how it is used.&nbsp; In this sentence dowse and house have the same<BR>sound, "You should dowse a fire in the house where you live.", but<BR>in this sentence house and cows have the same sound, "Where do you<BR>want to house the cows?"<BR><BR>See two separate sounds!&nbsp; BTW, down here "separate" is pronounced<BR>two ways also.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:36:33 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>On 11/12/00 at 01:21 PM,&nbsp; "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old; Age shall<BR>&gt;not weary them, nor the years condemn.<BR>&gt;At the going down of the sun and in the morning<BR>&gt;We will remember them.<BR><BR>Is Remembrance Sunday the British equivalent of Veteran's Day in the<BR>US...celebrated on the anniversary of the armistice ending WWI?<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:54:12 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews (Re: to Mexal's post)<BR><BR>On 11/09/00 at 10:09 PM,&nbsp; mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;That bodice-ripper... erm, take one fairly poor and low-tech world,<BR>&gt;bit Ruritanian in approach, lots of gold braid and fancy<BR>&gt;decorations.&nbsp; One old boy, richest chap on the planet and that.<BR>&gt;Who as such chaps are likely to do, married a fresh young thing...<BR>&gt;and promptly popped his clogs, leaving said young lady with lots of<BR>&gt;cash and no husband.&nbsp; She falls for the handsome young 3rd<BR>&gt;Secretary of the embassy of a nearby world (not much richer and<BR>&gt;even more given to fancy uniforms and titles!).&nbsp; Off she goes with<BR>&gt;him... and her homeworld would really, really like her back (or at<BR>&gt;least, the money).&nbsp; Our intrepid players, being the only chaps in<BR>&gt;the area with a spaceship, are sent to persuade her to come home...<BR>&gt;any way they can *tee* *hee*<BR><BR>&gt;This usually results with at least one character trying to woo the<BR>&gt;wealthy&nbsp; widow :-)<BR><BR>I had scenario in my Akus game where the newly wed wife of a Duke<BR>was being blackmailed by your standard Cad. She had a "shady" past,<BR>the Duke knew all about it, but wanted his wife to come clean on her<BR>own.&nbsp; The wife didn't know the Duke knew it and was afraid he would<BR>dump her if he found out.&nbsp; The Cad was also busy blackmailing,<BR>seducing, and sticking his nose into other places it didn't belong.<BR>Now I got the PC's involved:&nbsp; one was "hired by the Duke" to get rid<BR>of the Cad; one was in danger of being seduced by the Cad; others<BR>were involved with him through his NPC fiance who thinks he is<BR>cheating on her...and then he turns up murdered one day into a jump.<BR>&lt;g&gt; The murder was never "officially" solved, but the Duke and his<BR>bride left together and happy, the PC that was being tempted was<BR>relieved that the Cad was dead, the NPC fiance cried a lot but<BR>eventually got over him, and the game went on.<BR><BR>Pot-boiler romance...yeah, but as a sub-plot woven through other<BR>plots it was a lot of fun.&nbsp; Hum, it's about time for me to do that<BR>again.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:52:30 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 8:36 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On 11/12/00 at 01:21 PM,&nbsp; "Peter Scarrott"<BR>&lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt; said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old; Age shall<BR>&gt; &gt;not weary them, nor the years condemn.<BR>&gt; &gt;At the going down of the sun and in the morning<BR>&gt; &gt;We will remember them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Is Remembrance Sunday the British equivalent of Veteran's Day in the<BR>&gt; US...celebrated on the anniversary of the armistice ending WWI?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eris<BR><BR>Yes, it is<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:01:04 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR><BR>"Amazing Grace" Hopper was called back, after forced retirement, to lead an<BR>administrative and educational drive to more fully computerize the Navy. Her<BR>rank before her first retirement was Captain, her recall rank was Commodore,<BR>and by her second retirement (at nearly eighty years old, IIRC) was Rear<BR>Admiral. At the time she was made Commodore there was a big article in the<BR>papers about her and it noted that the rank had not been used in many years.<BR>She may have been part of a cross-branch team, come to think of it. I was a<BR>young and awestruck Data Processing Technician at the time :-)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Commodore in peacetime is used to designate a senior captain in charge of<BR>a<BR>&gt; squadron or other grouping (yes, such as a JTF) that is more extensive<BR>than<BR>&gt; From: "Gerry Harris" &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; When working with the Hurricane Andrew relief effort, the senior Navy<BR>&gt; &gt; officer on site was a captain.&nbsp; His title, though, was commodore, as he<BR>&gt; &gt; was in charge of a JTF (Joint Task Force).&nbsp; So, yes, commodore is used<BR>&gt; &gt; in peacetime.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:57:29 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>This has moved way off topic and is starting to stray dangerously close to <BR>the dreaded "gun control". Therefore I'm replying to the specifics off list and <BR>then attempting to bring it kicking and screaming back to something useful <BR>for Traveller.<BR><BR>How can a type 4 (representative democracy) be organised<BR><BR>Presidential (US) style system<BR>This has strong seperation of executive and legislative branches and <BR>employees the judicial branch as an "umpire". It uses the first past the <BR>post/winner takes all system. It produces two strong politicial parties with <BR>a widebase of support both targeting the "middle ground". Policies are <BR>formed by compromise. Minority opinons are marginalised, to achieve their <BR>aims they have to attempt to influence one of the two parties to accept part <BR>of their agenda. Voters tend to have strong "party loyalty", which can <BR>render the system vunerable to the parties being "hijacked" by minorities, <BR>which can take sometime to compensate/correct. The system generally <BR>results in strong stable governments. The strong two party system can <BR>lead to voter apathy or dissatisfaction. Seperation of legislature and <BR>executive leads to "competition" between the two, preventing one from <BR>dominating the other.<BR><BR>Parlimentary (UK) style system<BR>This has the executive branch is part of the legislative branch. The <BR>legislative branch is elected by a first past the post/winner takes all <BR>system. Like the presidential (US) system it produces two strong parties, <BR>however third parties tend to have a somewhat greater chance of entering <BR>the system because the executive branch is not elected seperately, but <BR>they are still marginalised and shut out of power. Since the executive is not <BR>directly elected it is more "removed" from the electorate. Very similar to <BR>the presidential (US) system. The executive tends to dominate the <BR>legislature.<BR><BR>Parlimentary (German) style system<BR>This is like the parlimentary (UK) system but with the legislature elected <BR>by proportional means. It uses a high "vote threshold" (the amount of votes <BR>a party must get to get representation) to shut out very small parties. <BR>Tends to produce two broad based parties and a number of smaller "minor" <BR>parties targeting specific broad groups in the electorate. Governments are <BR>very stable over the long term, tending to change only with changes in the <BR>electorate. The power of the minor parties is increased by their ability to <BR>broker power. Legislature tends to dominate the executive. Policies are set <BR>by concesus<BR><BR>Parlimentary (Isreali) style system<BR>Like the parlimentary (German) system, but without the high voter <BR>threshold. This results in many small "micro" parties targeting small <BR>"niches" in the electorate. Governments can change easily and the system <BR>has a tendency towards instability. The power of the micro parties is <BR>greatly increased by their ability to broker power. Extremists can often get <BR>core parts of their agenda implimented. The legislature tends to dominate <BR>the executive.<BR><BR>Any other styles people can think of?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:25:31 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Gauss? In the Imperium? ....&nbsp; MooOOOOO!<BR><BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Gaw-ss, sounding like "caw" or "ma."&nbsp; The allegedly correct<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pronouncition is "gows," like "cows."<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Well, I've always pronounced it 'gouse' to rhyme with 'house', as that<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I know several people who pronounce it to rhyme with 'gorse' or<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; 'gauze', and I keep correcting them... :)<BR>&gt;&gt;Therefore a possible pronounciation of gauss would be juice.<BR>&gt; Another, particularly given the illustrated shape of the Gauss Rifle in<BR>&gt;some places, would be "grease."<BR><BR>(To the tune of the "Mr Ed" theme)<BR><BR>A gauss is a gauss of course, of course,<BR>and you can't talk to a gauss, of course.<BR>That is, of course, unless the gauss<BR>shoots a famous person dead.<BR><BR>(Yes, obviously it should be gauss *rifle*, but...)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:12:57 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Imperial Navy command levels<BR><BR>Russell Bornschlegel writes:<BR>&gt;Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;1) I firmly belive that the space navy of an Imperium spanning 10,000 worlds<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; needs more than 10 command levels.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hmm, let's see -- If each commander at each level of the hierarchy has 10<BR>&gt;direct reports at the next level, you're talking about 10 billion individuals.<BR><BR>I believe the figure I've heard mentioned is 6 to 1. But I'm no expert, so let's<BR>instead look at some Real Life examples.<BR><BR>Several armies and navies on Earth today have 10 officer ranks. That is for<BR>organizations belonging to countries with 10 and 100 of millions of citizens.<BR>During WWII as many as 12 ranks were in use, indicating that the world navy of<BR>a unified world with tens of billions of citizens could well need that many.<BR>Still, since the WWII example involved special political considerations, I'll<BR>just suggest that such an organisation would need 11 levels. Since we're told<BR>that most star systems in the Imperium have just one important world, I won't<BR>suggest another level for system command. However, I would say that subsector<BR>level would require another level, wouldn't you? Possibly even two, but propably<BR>not, since most subsectors do not have more than half a dozen systems with<BR>billions of citizens. Above that is sector command and above that central<BR>command. That's 14 levels by my count.<BR><BR><BR>Hans <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:14:45 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [www] 12 Nov 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has<BR>posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and<BR>http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.&nbsp; <BR><BR>This update features:<BR><BR>- A new section of adventures can be found in Active Measures.&nbsp; Read about<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the Challenge Adventures and consider submitting one!<BR><BR>- Minor updates to the list of e-mail lists in the Traveller On The<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Internet page of the Information Center.<BR><BR>- Chapter six of Fred Ramen's ongoing serial, _The_Hostile_Stars_, has<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; been posted to Raconteur's Rest.<BR><BR>- Update to the SJGames product list and the FAQ to reflect recent<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; releases.<BR><BR>- Some questions to Freelance Traveller have come in, and been answered;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; find them on the Ask Freelance Traveller page in the Information Center.<BR><BR>Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance<BR>Traveller.&nbsp; Please write to freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all<BR>of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may<BR>be temporarily disabled.&nbsp; Freelance Traveller depends on the good will of<BR>Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our existence, and to<BR>write for us, making our existence possible.<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation to The<BR>Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to Executive Network<BR>Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com) for hosting services. Without<BR>organizations willing to cooperate with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing<BR>needs, we would be unable to bring you the articles and other resources<BR>that have made Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on<BR>the 'net.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:49:46 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>Union System&nbsp; - Site representatives plus local representatives plus<BR>national organization. All by direct plebiscite.<BR>U.N. System - Sovereign states sending local independent representatives who<BR>establish subordinate organizations and with an executive council composed<BR>of permanent and rotating members.<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:04:53 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sayat?<BR><BR>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:53:56 -0500 (EST), Jonathan McDermott<BR>&lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Someone (I'm sorry, I forgot who) mentioned that the Sayat were described <BR>&gt;in a Freelance Trav article, bnt I couldn't find it.&nbsp; Could someone please <BR>&gt;point me in the right idirection?&nbsp; Thanks in advance!<BR><BR>They _used_ to be on Freelance Traveller, about three redesigns back, when<BR>FT was on Dragonfire.&nbsp; Kenji Schwarz, their creator, was doing some<BR>extensive reworking of some aspects, and at that time, I felt that it was<BR>appropriate to 'pull' them.&nbsp; I still have the original material; I don't<BR>know where Kenji stands on its 'accuracy'.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:19:58 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Sayat?<BR><BR>On 11/12/00 at 08:04 PM,&nbsp; Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:53:56 -0500 (EST), Jonathan McDermott<BR>&gt;&lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Someone (I'm sorry, I forgot who) mentioned that the Sayat were described <BR>&gt;&gt;in a Freelance Trav article, bnt I couldn't find it.&nbsp; Could someone please <BR>&gt;&gt;point me in the right idirection?&nbsp; Thanks in advance!<BR><BR>&gt;They _used_ to be on Freelance Traveller, about three redesigns<BR>&gt;back, when FT was on Dragonfire.&nbsp; Kenji Schwarz, their creator, was<BR>&gt;doing some extensive reworking of some aspects, and at that time, I<BR>&gt;felt that it was appropriate to 'pull' them.&nbsp; I still have the<BR>&gt;original material; I don't know where Kenji stands on its<BR>&gt;'accuracy'.<BR><BR>If anyone knows how to get in contact with Kenji, could you, please?&nbsp; It wouldn't be appropriate to use any of his material for a proposed writeup without his permission.<BR><BR>Ulterior motive:&nbsp; I'd like to see Kenji's entertaining posts back on the list. <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:33:32 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Type 4 Govts (was: Washington)<BR><BR>I've thought of another type<BR><BR>No Party Regional representatives<BR>This is like the US presidental or UK parlimentary systems. There are <BR>either no parties or occassional several smaller ones. Legislature is <BR>elected by districts electing one or more members. Very strong tendancy <BR>towards factionialism (often precursors to more formalised parties). Much <BR>actual power devolves to the bureaucracy (this can often by the political <BR>system behind a type 8 or 9 government). Will tend to evolve towards a <BR>party system without some external mechanism preventing it.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:43:34 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>I've been browsing around the net the last few days trying to find a halfway <BR>decent program for generating worlds or (better) whole systems. I'm not less <BR>than happy with the Traveller system of world and system generation, and iin <BR>the past it's been my practice to use a homegrown system more akin to the <BR>2300AD system. But I've a need to generate a bunch soon, and rolling <BR>countless dice fails to appeal. A program seems to be in order.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, while I've found a bunch of world generators, none of them <BR>meet my two main needs which are:<BR><BR>- - I supply the exact stats of the system's central star (I'm trying to make <BR>a "real universe" based on Hipparcos data)<BR><BR>- - The program spits out a *plausible* set of physical characteristics for <BR>the planets of that star in real-world units, not UWPs.<BR><BR>Is anyone aware of a world/system generator -- web-based, or stand-alone <BR>program, anything really -- that meets these criteria?<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:08:31 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>Paul Drye wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've been browsing around the net the last few days trying to find a halfway<BR>&gt; decent program for generating worlds or (better) whole systems. I'm not less<BR>&gt; than happy with the Traveller system of world and system generation, and iin<BR>&gt; the past it's been my practice to use a homegrown system more akin to the<BR>&gt; 2300AD system. But I've a need to generate a bunch soon, and rolling<BR>&gt; countless dice fails to appeal. A program seems to be in order.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Unfortunately, while I've found a bunch of world generators, none of them<BR>&gt; meet my two main needs which are:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - I supply the exact stats of the system's central star (I'm trying to make<BR>&gt; a "real universe" based on Hipparcos data)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - The program spits out a *plausible* set of physical characteristics for<BR>&gt; the planets of that star in real-world units, not UWPs.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is anyone aware of a world/system generator -- web-based, or stand-alone<BR>&gt; program, anything really -- that meets these criteria?<BR><BR>Have you tried Stuart Ferris' "Heaven and Earth" system generator?&nbsp; If<BR>not, go to:<BR><BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/travelle.htm<BR><BR>to find several of Stuart Ferris' Traveller programs.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:13:52 EST<BR>From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>Subject: Classic Traveller Reprints<BR><BR>Does anyone know how well these are selling? I wonder if they are bringing <BR>new players into the Traveller Universe? Most younger role players may have <BR>never seen Classic Traveller products....<BR><BR>Just wondering :)<BR><BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:52:26 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>&gt;Have you tried Stuart Ferris' "Heaven and Earth" system generator?&nbsp; If<BR>&gt;not, go to:<BR><BR>This is the one that I'm going to use if I can't find anything more <BR>"realistic". My major problem with Heaven and Earth is that you can't enter <BR>the central star's stats properly, particularly luminosity. Instead it just <BR>"figures these out" for you based on the star type that one types in. This <BR>means the luminosity it supplies is often wrong to a greater or lesser <BR>extent. It would save me some time if I could just punch in the figure that <BR>I already know.<BR><BR>H&amp;E also carries over some of the UWP system's oddities, like not tying the <BR>atmosphere type to the planet's size very well, and assuming that there's <BR>such a thing as Titus-Bode "orbits" into which all planets must fall. A <BR>system generator that's a touch less idiosyncratic would be nice.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:08:38 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Reprints<BR><BR>On 11/12/00 at 09:13 PM,&nbsp; Qstor@aol.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;Does anyone know how well these are selling? I wonder if they are<BR>&gt;bringing&nbsp; new players into the Traveller Universe? Most younger<BR>&gt;role players may have&nbsp; never seen Classic Traveller products....<BR><BR>&gt;Just wondering :)<BR><BR>I suspect Marc Miller knows, but as for the rest of us...&lt;g&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:06:58 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 12 Nov 2000, at 21:14, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; What amazes me is that everybody finds this situation all so remarkable. <BR>&gt; Given the very nature of "first past the post/winner take all" systems, this was<BR>&gt; pretty much inevitable. Up until we changed to proportional representation a few<BR>&gt; years ago, everything thats happening (judicial recounts, results hanging on a<BR>&gt; single electorate, the winner getting less votes overall than the loser...) in<BR>&gt; the US was standard fare for every NZ election. What amazes me is that the US<BR>&gt; somehow managed to avoid this happening before (sometimes blind dumb luck is<BR>&gt; just unbelievable).<BR><BR>Me too. Until this week jusy gone by i assumed that all this happened, and we <BR>just didn't hear about it because it wouldn't be considered newsworthy. It was <BR>certainly considered simply a fact of life here.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Rupert Boleyn<BR>"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:15:43 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Reprints<BR><BR>I know that Marc does not always have time to keep up on the TML, so I'll<BR>just repeat some recent remarks of his. Sales are going very well, a bit<BR>better than original projection, and the third book just released had the<BR>highest preorder demand among distributors so far, IIRC.<BR><BR>If I may read into that somewhat, since the books are selling well in stores<BR>as well as on his web site, I'd assume that a certain number of the sales<BR>are to either, a) those who have not been involved with Traveller in recent<BR>years, and b) some gamers who have never played previously. Obviously, some<BR>of the in-store sales are going to folks like myself who prefer to buy from<BR>a store because we are supporting local establishments (at no additional<BR>cost to ourselves, I might add).<BR><BR>Anecdotally, I have to contacts through Downport.com who have mentioned<BR>returning to the game after seeing and buying the reprints in a store. Also,<BR>Jay Larosee has mentioned selling copies to both nostalgia players and<BR>newbies from his store, Medieval Starship in O'Fallon, IL.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>&gt; On 11/12/00 at 09:13 PM,&nbsp; Qstor@aol.com said:<BR>&gt; &gt;Does anyone know how well these are selling? I wonder if they are<BR>&gt; &gt;bringing&nbsp; new players into the Traveller Universe? Most younger<BR>&gt; &gt;role players may have&nbsp; never seen Classic Traveller products....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Just wondering :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I suspect Marc Miller knows, but as for the rest of us...&lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:02:59 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Dalton Spence &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Did I miss something???<BR><BR>As a loyal subscriber to Pyramid I was eagerly waiting for the GT:<BR>Modular Cutters playtest, when to my dismay I noticed that the GURPS<BR>Traveller books page at the Steve Jackson Games website listed it as<BR>"at the printers." While I'm aware that a specialist book like this<BR>one doesn't need a *lot* of playtesting, surely it deserves *some*.<BR>Did I miss it, or was it all done in-house?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; @==================================================@<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Grandmother was distressed by the ocean for the&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; skeptical code wheel. FNORD!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; @==================================================@<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:03:17 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Hans said:<BR>&gt;&gt;This is probably an error in canon (gasp!) where Rear and Vice were switched.<BR>&gt;&gt;Santanocheev should have been referred to as a Vice Admiral prior to his<BR>&gt;&gt;promotion to Sector Admiral, and Elphinstone should be a Rear Admiral.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I don't think so. If you assume that rear and vice admiral are ranks above<BR>&gt;commodore and below Fleet Admiral (which I'm perfectly aware is contrary to the<BR>&gt;character generation system), then both Santanocheev and Elphinstone are quite<BR>&gt;well matched for the job they are said to have.<BR><BR>I don't think I explained myself properly, sorry. What I meant was, in the real<BR>world (and in TNE!) Vice Admiral is a higher rank than Rear Admiral. Elphinstone<BR>should still have been subordinate to Santanocheev, but it should have been like<BR>this:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Name&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ranks Given&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ranks As They&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Number of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in TNS Reports&nbsp;&nbsp; Should Have Been&nbsp;&nbsp; Stars<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp;&nbsp; Vice Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rear Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 star<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Santanocheev&nbsp; Rear Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vice Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2 stars<BR><BR>Get it? (Got it!) Good!<BR><BR>And I still believe my meta-game reason is valid (the designers never "ran the<BR>numbers" on the size of the Imperium or its military).<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:04:06 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Hello from DC...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; GRAPE KETCHUP<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5 lb Grapes; picked<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; 2 1/2 lb Sugar<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 pt Cider vinegar<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; 1 1/2 T&nbsp; Salt<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Clove<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Black pepper<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Allspice<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 T&nbsp; Cinnamon<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Stew grapes and put through a colander;&nbsp; then add the other<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; ingredients and boil all together until a little thick.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --- Mrs. C. E. Davis<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Webster Woman's Club, 1922<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; per Perry Lowell<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This I'm gonna have to try.<BR><BR>Let me know how it comes out. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Klingon Tea...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; "What do you mean you forgot to bring the antidote along with the tea?!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I must have missed this one.<BR><BR>ST:TNG episode with Dr. Pulaski and Worf. She's spent lots the episode<BR>trying to get into a "social" setting with Worf. Finally, near the end<BR>she's about to drink "Klingon tea" with him and suddenly stops and uses<BR>a hypospray on herself. All she says is "Antidote."<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3283<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:46:58 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:46:29 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA04489;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:41:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:41:08 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA04446<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:41:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:41:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011130641.BAA04446@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3283<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, November 13 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3284<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR>Re: OT Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: OT Re: Washington<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>RE: Sayat?<BR>RE: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: GT Cutter<BR>re: Gauss? In the Imperium? ....&nbsp; MooOOOOO!<BR>RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>"Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Type 4<BR>RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Electoral College<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>RE: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>Getting into the Moot (was OT Re: Washington)<BR>Oaths (was&nbsp; Re: Washington<BR>RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:15:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; D Smart wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Not to mention the wisdom to know when to use the final option for<BR>&gt;&gt; overthrowing a government as implied by the U.S.<BR>&gt;&gt; Constitution.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; That's why the "right to bear arms" is explicitly stated.<BR>&gt;&gt; T'ain't<BR>&gt;&gt; for huntin' squirrels and rabbits.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think a much better interpretation is that it allows people to defend<BR>&gt; the Constitution from a government (foreign or domestic) that would<BR>&gt; overthrow the Constitution.&nbsp; Hence, the preamble: "A well regulated<BR>&gt; Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State".&nbsp; Note that US<BR>&gt; soldiers take an oath to defend the Constitution, not the government.<BR><BR>On the other hand, a motion to place "in the common defence" immediate<BR>after "bear arms" was voted *down*.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:15:20 +0400<BR>From: Andrew Long &lt;andylong@emirates.net.ae&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>On Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:43:34 EST, "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt; asked:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've been browsing around the net the last few days trying to find a<BR>halfway<BR>&gt; decent program for generating worlds or (better) whole systems. I'm not<BR>less<BR>&gt; than happy with the Traveller system of world and system generation, and<BR>iin<BR>&gt; the past it's been my practice to use a homegrown system more akin to the<BR>&gt; 2300AD system. But I've a need to generate a bunch soon, and rolling<BR>&gt; countless dice fails to appeal. A program seems to be in order.<BR>&gt;<BR>Have you tried 'Accrete?' This is a program that simulates star system<BR>formation using (fairly) up-to-date Planetographic (sic) theories. You can<BR>find it at http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/accrete.exe. There's rather a lot<BR>of stuff at the parent site, which is WInchell Chung's '3D star map'<BR>resource page...<BR><BR>regards, Andy Long<BR>========================================================<BR>Andrew Long&nbsp; eMail: AndrewLong@hotmail.com<BR>c/o EPMTS&nbsp; Phone: +971 2 681 3100<BR>P.O. Box 46426&nbsp; Fax: +971 2 681 3802<BR>Abu Dhabi&nbsp; GSM: +971 50 661 0254<BR>United Arab Emirates<BR>========================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:36:33 -0800<BR>From: Snake Eyes &lt;snake.eyes@att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR><BR>At 05:03 PM 11/13/00 +1100, David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I don't think I explained myself properly, sorry. What I meant was, in the <BR>&gt;real<BR>&gt;world (and in TNE!) Vice Admiral is a higher rank than Rear Admiral. <BR>&gt;Elphinstone<BR>&gt;should still have been subordinate to Santanocheev, but it should have <BR>&gt;been like<BR>&gt;this:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Name&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ranks Given&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ranks As They&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Number of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; in TNS Reports&nbsp;&nbsp; Should Have Been&nbsp;&nbsp; Stars<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp;&nbsp; Vice Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rear Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 star<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Santanocheev&nbsp; Rear Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vice Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2 stars<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Get it? (Got it!) Good!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And I still believe my meta-game reason is valid (the designers never "ran the<BR>&gt;numbers" on the size of the Imperium or its military).<BR><BR>&lt;DELURK&gt;<BR><BR>Minor correction to the above (as pertaining to real-life):&nbsp; Although Vice <BR>Admiral is indeed higher than Rear Admiral, at least in in the real-world <BR>US Navy a Vice Admiral = 3 stars, whereas a Rear Admiral gets either one or <BR>two, depending on whether it's a 1st-half (one-star) or 2nd-half (two-star) <BR>Rear Admiral.&nbsp; Refer to the USN website (below):<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/allhands/ranks/officers/o-rank.html<BR><BR>As an aside, I understand that -- in wartime -- 1-star Admirals who command <BR>battle groups get to be called "Commodore," though I don't think that's <BR>happened since WWII (which is also the last time the USN had any 5-star <BR>"Fleet Admirals").<BR><BR>~ Snake Eyes<BR><BR>&lt;RELURK&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:34:02 -0600<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT Re: Washington<BR><BR>At 3:47 PM +0000 11/12/00, Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt;At 08:43 -0500 12/11/00, howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Second, taking popular vote would reduce the power of small<BR>&gt;&gt;(Population-wise.) states to determine elections.&nbsp; That's why the Electoral<BR>&gt;&gt;College is safe from snap-decision tinkering.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The European Union divides the level of representation amongst <BR>&gt;states based upon the population numbers. The net result is that <BR>&gt;Germany, France, Italy and the UK have the highest levels of <BR>&gt;representation in the parliament. (It used to be equal, but I'm not <BR>&gt;sure if Germany's level has gone up since they re-unified). From <BR>&gt;what I can see from the US and UK media coverage (and shoot me down <BR>&gt;if I'm wrong here), you effectively have the same with the electoral <BR>&gt;college - smaller states having less votes. Maybe it isn't tied <BR>&gt;directly to population in the same way as the EU (or the UK for that <BR>&gt;matter), but it is weighted.&nbsp; In the UK, we used to vote our <BR>&gt;European MPs in with First Past the Post - this has now changed to <BR>&gt;PR, with no real observable effect at the moment.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Does this come from&nbsp; the notion that all the states should have <BR>&gt;equal weight in determining the president?<BR><BR>This is basically true.&nbsp; The states were suppose to represent<BR>their people.&nbsp; But the president was the leader of the nation<BR>and not the states.&nbsp; Though there is a minimum number of<BR>electors a state can have so that biases things a little bit<BR>toward the small states.<BR><BR>Similarly, the House of representatives<BR>was suppose to represent the people and was popularly elected<BR>while the senate more represented the states.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:47:55 -0600<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>At 6:48 AM +0000 11/12/00, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>&gt;As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt;system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>&gt;the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>&gt;going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR>&gt;members for the formal vote to appoint the president, but why do all the<BR>&gt;electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR><BR>They don't.&nbsp; But early on the party that was more dominate in the<BR>state would vote to make sure that all the electors went to<BR>their own party.&nbsp;&nbsp; About the only way to change that would<BR>be if all the states went to a proportional system together.<BR>I don't know if a federal law to that effect would be constitutional.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:51:44 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Any other styles people can think of?<BR><BR>France.&nbsp; "German" style, but with a strong President.<BR><BR>Another great source of variations are federations and confederations, of<BR>course.&nbsp; We've already a bit of discussion on this wrt the US.&nbsp; But there<BR>is Canada, Australia, Switzerland(!!!), Papua New Guinea, Germany,...&nbsp; All<BR>radically different.&nbsp; <BR><BR>And if you are really nasty, there are the more "guided" democracies -<BR>places like Singapore and Malaysia.&nbsp; Multi-party systems with one very<BR>dominant party.&nbsp; Bordering on oligarchy.<BR><BR>Japan - kind of like the previous, only managed in a somewhat more orderly<BR>manner.<BR><BR>Oh, and don't forget India, Fiji, Brazil...&nbsp; Their constitutions may be<BR>more or less generic, but their politics reflect their underlying cultures.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:28:51 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; The problem with a proportional system is the fact that within the same<BR>&gt; Constitutional Amendment (the 12th I believe) that sets up the Electoral<BR>&gt; College<BR><BR>Actually, the electoral college is set up by Article II, section 1 of<BR>the Constitution. It's just that a *large* chunk of that got repeated<BR>in the 12th Amendment.<BR><BR>&gt; is the fact that the winner must receive over 50% of the electoral<BR>&gt; votes (270 for the current election).&nbsp; If nobody receives the required<BR>&gt; amount then the House of Representatives is called together and each state<BR>&gt; is given one vote.&nbsp; This vote must be cast for one of the top two candidates<BR>&gt; and the vote must be approved by the state governor.&nbsp; The reason the<BR>&gt; all-or-nothing system started was to keep the House from being tied up every<BR>&gt; four years...<BR><BR>And if the house can't figure it out, then the Senate gets involved. <BR><BR>BTW, I was suprised to note that while the *number* of electors in a<BR>state is set in the Consitution, how they are selected is left up to<BR>the individual states!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:35:57 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Okay, y'all were askin' for this...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If all states were to use a system like Maine's (2 votes for the overall<BR>&gt; votegetter, plus 1 for each congressional district won), the election <BR>&gt; would've<BR>&gt; been decided already based upon the voting for members of Congress (no, it's<BR>&gt; not perfect, but they're the best numbers I can put together without doing<BR>&gt; many more hours of research than this merits).&nbsp; The numbers as they stand<BR>&gt; would be:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bush: 278&nbsp; 2*29 states, plus 220 districts.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Gore: 252&nbsp; 2*20 states, plus 211 districts, plus 1 for DC (since it has <BR>&gt; no<BR>&gt; representative).<BR><BR>Nope. DC gets *three* votes.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Amendment XXIII<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ===============<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Section 1<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The&nbsp; District&nbsp; constituting&nbsp; the&nbsp; seat&nbsp; of Government of the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; United States shall appoint&nbsp; in&nbsp; such manner as the Congress<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; may direct: A number&nbsp; of&nbsp; electors&nbsp; of&nbsp; President&nbsp; and&nbsp; Vice<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; President&nbsp;&nbsp; equal&nbsp; to&nbsp; the&nbsp; whole&nbsp; number&nbsp; of&nbsp; Senators&nbsp; and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Representatives in Congress to&nbsp; which&nbsp; the District would be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; entitled if it were a State, but in no event more&nbsp; than&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; least&nbsp; populous&nbsp; State;&nbsp; they&nbsp; shall be in addition to those<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; appointed by the States,&nbsp; but&nbsp; they shall be considered, for<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the&nbsp; purposes&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; election&nbsp; of&nbsp; President&nbsp;&nbsp; and&nbsp;&nbsp; Vice<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; President,&nbsp; to&nbsp; be&nbsp; electors&nbsp; appointed by a State; and they<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; shall meet&nbsp; in&nbsp; the&nbsp; District&nbsp; and&nbsp; perform&nbsp; such&nbsp; duties as<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; provided by the twelfth article of amendment.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Section 2<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The Congress shall have power to&nbsp; enforce&nbsp; this&nbsp; article&nbsp; by<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; appropriate legislation.<BR><BR>As a State DC would have 2 senators and at least one Representative.<BR>That's *3* electoral votes. Maybe more if the least populated state<BR>(Rhode Island?) has more than one representative.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Undetermined: 8 (NM, 2 for state; FL, 2 for state and 1 for district<BR>&gt; (#22); NJ, 1 for district (#12); 2 independent districts)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (Some networks don't give Oregon to Gore, so that would slide 2 more to<BR>&gt; the undetermined column.)<BR><BR>Networks, schmetworks. The *state* hasn't figured out who won yet...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:51:33 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;The whole Floridan thing is quite interesting to watch from a outside <BR>&gt;&gt;perspective. I actually surprised that this took so long to hit TML.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;ObTrav: All the Moot representatives are nominally nobles. However, <BR>&gt;&gt;would the Imperium accept a noble representative who was voted to the <BR>&gt;&gt;position of heir (for example).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Didn't the Towering entry from the Hubworlds in the TNE rulebook say the<BR>&gt; system had a history of no nobles?<BR><BR>Consider that in real history there are multiple instances of "noble"<BR>positions that were obtained via votes. The Holy Roman Emperor was<BR>selected by the Electors, for example. And I recall reading about<BR>several places where a noble's heir had to be approved, either by a<BR>council of nobles, or some superior nobles. Note that in the case of<BR>Poland, the "cvouncil" was their Parliment! (or at least one house of<BR>it!).<BR><BR>So "elected noble" *isn't* the oxymoron it sounds like.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:09:27 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>Eris wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Gore-ss ... rhymes with gorse<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Ow-ss ... rhymes with house<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Ow-z&nbsp; ... rhymes with dowse<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Whoa!&nbsp; I pronounce the last two alike...sometimes &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In my neck of the woods, house has two different sounds depending on<BR>&gt; how it is used.&nbsp; In this sentence dowse and house have the same<BR>&gt; sound, "You should dowse a fire in the house where you live.", but<BR>&gt; in this sentence house and cows have the same sound, "Where do you<BR>&gt; want to house the cows?"<BR><BR>I ment "dowse" as in looking for water with a funny shaped stick.<BR>In English you *douse* a fire ... but a quick&nbsp; search&nbsp; of&nbsp; online<BR>dictionaries suggests that in American-English both&nbsp; the&nbsp; "douse"<BR>and "dowse" spellings can both be used in this latter context.<BR><BR>So:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gore-ss ... rhymes with gorse (as in "a gorse bush") or horse<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (as in "a horse")<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Ow-ss ... rhymes with house (as in "a house")<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Ow-z&nbsp; ... rhymes with dowse (as in "to dowse *for* water")<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:50:03 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Sayat?<BR><BR>Eris wrote:<BR>&gt; If anyone knows how to get in contact with Kenji, could you, <BR>&gt; please?&nbsp; It wouldn't be appropriate to use any of his <BR>&gt; material for a proposed writeup without his permission.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ulterior motive:&nbsp; I'd like to see Kenji's entertaining posts <BR>&gt; back on the list. <BR><BR>If that's Kenji as in Kenji Schwarz he&nbsp; posts&nbsp; regularly&nbsp; to&nbsp; the<BR>2300AD list from schwarz@fas.harvard.edu<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:00:52 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>Paul Drye wrote:<BR>&gt; I've been browsing around the net the last few days trying to<BR>&gt; find a halfway decent program for generating worlds or (better)<BR>&gt; whole systems. I'm not less than happy with the Traveller system<BR>&gt; of world and system generation, and iin the past it's been my<BR>&gt; practice to use a homegrown system more akin to the 2300AD<BR>&gt; system. But I've a need to generate a bunch soon, and rolling <BR>&gt; countless dice fails to appeal. A program seems to be in order.<BR><BR>There is a little project by Tyge Sjstrand to rework the&nbsp; 2300AD<BR>system generation and fix up some of&nbsp; the&nbsp; more&nbsp; glaring&nbsp; errors.<BR>Its still a "work in progress" but it might&nbsp; meet&nbsp; some&nbsp; of&nbsp; your<BR>needs.&nbsp; On the downside&nbsp; its&nbsp; just&nbsp; a&nbsp; system&nbsp; at&nbsp; present&nbsp; -&nbsp; no<BR>software to ease the dice rolling.&nbsp; But check it out anyway,&nbsp; its<BR>in the 2300AD section of StuffOnline ...<BR><BR>http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR>(who must one day get a domain name for this site)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:52:22 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: GT Cutter<BR><BR>&gt; As a loyal subscriber to Pyramid I was eagerly waiting for the GT:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Modular Cutters playtest, when to my dismay I noticed that the GURPS<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Traveller books page at the Steve Jackson Games website listed it as<BR>&gt;&nbsp; "at the printers." While I'm aware that a specialist book like this<BR>&gt;&nbsp; one doesn't need a *lot* of playtesting, surely it deserves *some*.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Did I miss it, or was it all done in-house?<BR><BR>It had no formal playtest, but the modules went through several internal and <BR>semi-external wringers.<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:02:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Gauss? In the Imperium? ....&nbsp; MooOOOOO!<BR><BR>- --- Alan Bradley &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;<A course,<BR of course, gauss a is>and you can't talk to a gauss, of course.<BR>That is, of course, unless the gauss<BR>shoots a famous person dead.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Keyboard kill (not to mention monitor smeared with coffee).<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!<BR>http://calendar.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:05:59 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In fact, as I recall, it's not physically *possible* to focus light to<BR>&gt; a smaller area than the source!<BR><BR>Laser light, maybe. I seem to recall setting fire to paper as a child, and<BR>I'm fairly sure that my magnifying glass focused the sunlight to less than a<BR>couple thousand miles across.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:20:03 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>Has anyone ever tried running a "Pocket Empires" campaign set<BR>during the "New Era?"&nbsp; I found a nifty piece of software that<BR>takes a "Classic Era" sector and calculates what it might look<BR>like after the Rebellion and the Collapse.&nbsp; I thought it might<BR>be interesting to take either the Solomani Rim or the Spinward<BR>Marches, run it through the meat-grinder, and then use the<BR>"Pocket Empires" rules to play out the rebirth of interstellar<BR>civilization.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, I believe that in the "New Era" rules, the<BR>meaning of the government digit of the Universal World Profile<BR>has been fiddled with, and that a "6" no longer means "Captive<BR>Government" and a "7" no longer means "Balkanization."&nbsp; Can<BR>anyone direct me to an explanation of how governments are<BR>classified under the "New Era" rules?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:48:57 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; In fact, as I recall, it's not physically *possible* to focus light to<BR>&gt; &gt; a smaller area than the source!<BR>&gt; Laser light, maybe. I seem to recall setting fire to paper as a child, and<BR>&gt; I'm fairly sure that my magnifying glass focused the sunlight to less than a<BR>&gt; couple thousand miles across.<BR><BR>Or even smaller than your magnifying glass, which could be considered<BR>in some sense as the source of the light.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:53:48 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; In fact, as I recall, it's not physically *possible* to focus<BR>&gt; &gt; light to a smaller area than the source!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Laser light, maybe. I seem to recall setting fire to paper as a<BR>&gt; child, and I'm fairly sure that my magnifying glass focused the<BR>&gt; sunlight to less than a couple thousand miles across.<BR><BR>Paper?&nbsp; My!&nbsp; You were well-behaved as a child, Dean!<BR><BR>Okay, this is probably really dumb, but: given the laser&nbsp; focusing<BR>capability in Trav (gravetic focusing if you're into&nbsp; TNE)&nbsp; is&nbsp; it<BR>possible for a satellite in LEO to focus the sun's&nbsp; light&nbsp; into&nbsp; a<BR>short range weapon comparable to a ship laser?&nbsp; (An ant-buster for<BR>ships?)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:07:25 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Arthur Boff &lt;ajboff@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Type 4<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;This is like the US presidental or UK parlimentary<BR>systems. There are <BR>either no parties or occassional several smaller<BR>ones.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>???<BR><BR>The UK parliament is dominated by the political<BR>parties. There's an occasional independent but<BR>otherwise most MPs are backed by one party or another.<BR><BR>Arthur<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!<BR>http://calendar.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:10:02 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Paper?&nbsp; My!&nbsp; You were well-behaved as a child, Dean!<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Paper, ants, petroleum, people, it all burns eventually.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:31:55 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Electoral College<BR><BR>Matthew Bond writes:<BR><BR>&gt; As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt;&nbsp; system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>&gt;&nbsp; going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR>&gt;&nbsp; members for the formal vote to appoint the president, but why do all the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Wouldn't a proportional system be a better reflection of the wishes of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the electorate? That way, in the current situation, Florida's 25(?)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; votes could be split 13/12. I don't know which way the result would go<BR>&gt;&nbsp; if this was applied to all the state votes, but it would make the whole<BR>&gt;&nbsp; thing seem more equitable...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The way it was supposed to work was that the people would not vote for <BR>the president directly, but instead would vote for electors who would then <BR>each vote his independent judgement for two people qualified toi be <BR>President. The top vote-getter would be President, and the second would be <BR>Vice-President. The system worked for Washington (every elector voted for <BR>George Washington as one of the two choices both times he was elected) and it <BR>worked for his successor John Adams.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; However, by the time of the fourth election in 1800, political parties <BR>had formed and each of the electors voted for the candidates of his party. <BR>This meant that Thomas Jefferson and his running mate Aaron Burr both got <BR>equal numbers of votes, and the election went into the House of <BR>Representatives, which was deadlocked for dozens of rounds of voting while <BR>the opposition tried to elect Burr over Jefferson. The Constitution was <BR>promptly amended to require separate ballots for President and Vice-President.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ever since then the practice has been for each party to presents a slate <BR>of electors in each state who are loyal party members, pledged to vote for <BR>the party's candidates for president and Vice President.&nbsp; So, a vote for the <BR>Republican or Democratic candidate is really a vote for the Republican or <BR>Democratic party's slate of electors. Some states have language to this <BR>effect on the ballot.&nbsp; In nearly all states, the party gaining the most votes <BR>gets all the electors for that state.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; One way to change the system would be an amendment to the Constitution, <BR>which requires 2/3 of each house of Congress (or 2/3 of the states) to <BR>propose and 3/4 of the states to approve. People have been trying to abolish <BR>the electoral college and allow direct election of the President for most of <BR>the past two centuriess, but haven't yet gathered the overwhelming majority <BR>support they would need. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The other would be for states to adopt the system of choosing electors by <BR>congressional district.&nbsp; However, since the winner-take all policy favors the <BR>majority party, it would be exceptional to find any majority party willing to <BR>sacrifice this benefit.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If no one person gains a majority of the electoral votes cast, the <BR>House of Representatives must choose from the three candidates who received <BR>the most electoral votes. In that case, the vote is taken by states, not <BR>individual representatives. Presumably whichever candidate is supported by&nbsp; <BR>the majority of&nbsp; the state's congressional delegation would get that state's <BR>vote. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; In this case, the process can't be allowed to drag on indefinitely. <BR>Whatever lawsuits and injunctions may be filed, Florida election officials <BR>need to be ready to certify the votes of its electors on Dec 18.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:37:15 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; See two separate sounds!&nbsp; BTW, down here "separate" is pronounced<BR>&gt; two ways also.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Same here...Sep'rut (adj. things which are seperate) and sep-ahr-ate (the<BR>verb 'to separate')<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:54:10 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 2) He was sneaking around the ship checking on an illegal animal <BR>&gt; he was importing.&nbsp; Unfortunately, there were good reasons why the <BR>&gt; animal was illegal and it killed him.&nbsp; Now, the animal is loose <BR>&gt; somewhere on the ship...<BR><BR><BR>As a reversal of this idea, I recently pulled a rather nasty trick on one of<BR>my players (my gf, in fact). She was in a desperate rush to get off planet<BR>and had insufficient funds <BR>for passage. Sadly, she also had comparatively few marketable skills to work<BR>passage. So she stowed away. Aboard a Drakaran (G:T AR1) freighter. Just<BR>before the entire crew entered The Stalking. :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:16:41 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Getting into the Moot (was OT Re: Washington)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav: All the Moot representatives are nominally nobles. However,<BR>&gt;would the Imperium accept a noble representative who was voted to the<BR>&gt;position of heir (for example).<BR><BR>All Moot representatives are Imperial nobles, not local nobles.<BR><BR><BR>Member states may make local nobles however they want, including by<BR>election.&nbsp; These local nobles&nbsp; are not part of the peerage and will not be<BR>part of the Moot (unless they are separately made Imperial nobles).&nbsp; The<BR>local nobles will receive courtesy from Imperial nobles and nobles of other<BR>localities (and even from foreign powers).<BR><BR>Imperial nobles are only created by the Emperor.<BR><BR>Recall Loren's recent request for information about subinfeudation, which is<BR>a related topic.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:16:55 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Oaths (was&nbsp; Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I think a much better interpretation is that it allows people to defend<BR>&gt;the Constitution from a government (foreign or domestic) that would<BR>&gt;overthrow the Constitution.&nbsp; Hence, the preamble: "A well regulated<BR>&gt;Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State".&nbsp; Note that US<BR>&gt;soldiers take an oath to defend the Constitution, not the government.<BR><BR>US soldiers (and all other uniformed services), all civilian federal<BR>employees, federal judges -- even postal workers take an oath to defend and<BR>uphold the Constitution.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:15:24 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Paper?&nbsp; My!&nbsp; You were well-behaved as a child, Dean!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Paper, ants, petroleum, people, it all burns eventually.<BR><BR>Yeah, but only when the weather is&nbsp; cooperating.&nbsp; An&nbsp; alternative<BR>childhood game I remember was Macclesfield Roulette: set fire&nbsp; to<BR>a wasp on a over-crowded school bus and see who'd be stung and/or<BR>burned.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&nbsp; wonder&nbsp; what&nbsp; nasty&nbsp; games&nbsp; Ditzie&nbsp;&nbsp; played&nbsp;&nbsp; before<BR>'graduating' to the real weapons?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3284<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3285</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, November 13 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3285<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR>RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Imperial compromises (was Re: Washington)<BR>Book questions<BR>Re: OT Re: Washington<BR>RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>RE: Book questions<BR>RE: Book questions (longer than usual for me)<BR>RE: Book questions<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>RE: Did I miss something???<BR>RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Re: Oaths (was&nbsp; Re: Washington<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>RE: Did I miss something???<BR>RE: Book questions<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:21:52 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR><BR>David wrote:<BR>&gt;I don't think I explained myself properly, sorry. What I meant was, in the<BR>&gt;real world (and in TNE!) Vice Admiral is a higher rank than Rear Admiral.<BR><BR>And I never argued that it wouldn't be so in the Imperium too.<BR><BR>&gt;Elphinstone should still have been subordinate to Santanocheev, but it should<BR>&gt;have been like this:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Name&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ranks Given&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ranks As They&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Number of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; in TNS Reports&nbsp;&nbsp; Should Have Been&nbsp;&nbsp; Stars<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp;&nbsp; Vice Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rear Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 star<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Santanocheev&nbsp; Rear Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vice Admiral&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2 stars<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;Get it? (Got it!) Good!<BR><BR>Got it. The mistake you're making is assuming that Santanocheev remained a rear<BR>admiral. He didn't. He was promoted to sector admiral (being jumped, as I've<BR>argued before, over dozens or even scores of other admirals). So before the 5FW<BR>Santanocheev may or may not have been subordinate to Elphinstone (we don't know<BR>what rank Elphinstone had before the war), but during it he was definitely<BR>senior.<BR><BR>&gt;And I still believe my meta-game reason is valid (the designers never "ran the<BR>&gt;numbers" on the size of the Imperium or its military).<BR><BR>I believe so too, but that's not really any help, is it? The trick is to resolve<BR>these discrepancies in in-game terms with the least possible changes.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:25:21 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Paper?&nbsp; My!&nbsp; You were well-behaved as a child, Dean!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Paper, ants, petroleum, people, it all burns eventually.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeah, but only when the weather is&nbsp; cooperating.&nbsp; An&nbsp; alternative<BR>&gt; childhood game I remember was Macclesfield Roulette: set fire&nbsp; to<BR>&gt; a wasp on a over-crowded school bus and see who'd be stung and/or<BR>&gt; burned.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&nbsp; wonder&nbsp; what&nbsp; nasty&nbsp; games&nbsp; Ditzie&nbsp;&nbsp; played&nbsp;&nbsp; before<BR>&gt; 'graduating' to the real weapons?<BR><BR>I wonder how long the average nanny/governess survived?<BR>I suspect that a tele-operated pseudo-biological dumbot<BR>(built with warbot-like durability) had to be pressed <BR>into service...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:27:08 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Imperial compromises (was Re: Washington)<BR><BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR><BR>&gt;OBTrav: How may big, fat, stinking political compromises (the kind that<BR>&gt;allow politics to go on at all, but look really stupid from the perspective<BR>&gt;of history) have gone into the form and workings of the modern Imperium?<BR><BR>In my Traveller universe, number 1 was that, initially Cleon created<BR>Imperial nobles out of anyone currently holding noble title (from the Rule<BR>of Man era), at least within the Sylean region.&nbsp; Also, one of the carrots<BR>held out in the period of Imperial expansion was that nobles who joined the<BR>Imperium would retain their power and position (and the stick was that<BR>nobles who did not would not).<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:44:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: John Fox &lt;jfox@verity.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Book questions<BR><BR>Hello Everyone:<BR>&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After going thorugh several <BR>web sites I noticed there are several different versions of Traveller floating <BR>around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out which books to get to get started.<BR>&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and straight Traveller?<BR>&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps traveller and Traveller <BR>2300?<BR>&nbsp; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Lots more questions but that will be good for a start.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; John W. Fox<BR>&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:48:10 -0500<BR>From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)<BR>Subject: Re: OT Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Didn't the Towering entry from the Hubworlds in the TNE rulebook say the<BR>&gt;&gt; system had a history of no nobles?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Consider that in real history there are multiple instances of "noble"<BR>&gt;positions that were obtained via votes. The Holy Roman Emperor was<BR>&gt;selected by the Electors, for example. And I recall reading about<BR>&gt;several places where a noble's heir had to be approved, either by a<BR>&gt;council of nobles, or some superior nobles. Note that in the case of<BR>&gt;Poland, the "cvouncil" was their Parliment! (or at least one house of<BR>&gt;it!).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So "elected noble" *isn't* the oxymoron it sounds like.<BR><BR>But Towering does Towering have nobles, or merely representatives who merely<BR>have that responsibility in the Moot?.&nbsp; IIRC, the entry said that the<BR>system's Solomani heritage gave it a history of being *without* nobles.<BR><BR>(That might be wrong - I don't have the TNE rulebook here with me.)<BR><BR>C.T.<BR><BR>"Retiring student loans, one miserable cent at a time."<BR>Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.<BR><BR>Search the Net and Make Some Cash:<BR>http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng<BR>http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024 <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:07:44 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John P. Raynor<BR>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 10:25 AM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR><BR>On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Paper?&nbsp; My!&nbsp; You were well-behaved as a child, Dean!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Paper, ants, petroleum, people, it all burns eventually.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah, but only when the weather is&nbsp; cooperating.&nbsp; An&nbsp; alternative<BR>&gt; childhood game I remember was Macclesfield Roulette: set fire&nbsp; to<BR>&gt; a wasp on a over-crowded school bus and see who'd be stung and/or<BR>&gt; burned.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&nbsp; wonder&nbsp; what&nbsp; nasty&nbsp; games&nbsp; Ditzie&nbsp;&nbsp; played&nbsp;&nbsp; before<BR>&gt; 'graduating' to the real weapons?<BR><BR>I wonder how long the average nanny/governess survived?<BR>I suspect that a tele-operated pseudo-biological dumbot<BR>(built with warbot-like durability) had to be pressed<BR>into service...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>I think it safe to say that Ditzie's Robo-Nanny was built by the Six Eyes<BR>Nest. However, by the time Ditzie turned 13, I would be certain that she<BR>found a way to hack the robot's power management programs to make the<BR>onboard fusion powerplant go into thermal runaway. Or possibly she simply<BR>uploaded a personality program that had a severe case of demophobia, causing<BR>"defensive" behavior as it accompanied her to school one day.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:35:44 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Book questions<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: John Fox [mailto:jfox@verity.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 13 November 2000 16:45<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Book questions<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hello Everyone:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After <BR>&gt; going thorugh several <BR>&gt; web sites I noticed there are several different versions of <BR>&gt; Traveller floating <BR>&gt; around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out which books to get to get started.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and <BR>&gt; straight Traveller?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps <BR>&gt; traveller and Traveller <BR>&gt; 2300?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lots more questions but that will be good for a start.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; John W. Fox<BR><BR>For a start, Traveller:2300 (later renamed to just 2300AD) is *not*<BR>'Traveller', but a continuation of the Twilight 2000 setting into the<BR>2300's...<BR><BR>CT is Classic Traveller, in all its variants (Little Black Books<BR>[LBB's], The Traveller Book, Starter Traveller), and is set in the<BR>period 1105-1115, ie a little bit either side of the Fifth Frontier War<BR>(which was relesed as an add-on boardgame). CT is currently being<BR>reprinted in compilation books, of which the Rules, Supplements and<BR>Adventures have so far been released. Well worth getting!<BR><BR>MT is MegaTraveller, which was an updated and revised set of the CT<BR>rules, using more expanded character generation as per CT Books 4-7, the<BR>DGP task system (Digest Group Publications, a company that produced a<BR>lot of high quality products for CT and MT), a modified vehicle design<BR>and combat system based on Striker, Snapshot and Azhanti High Lightning<BR>(add-on games for CT), and was set during a Civil War period (1115-1130)<BR>following the assassination of Emperor Strephon by Archduke Dulinor.<BR><BR>TNE is Traveller: The New Era, uses a completely different set of rule<BR>mechanics (those of the GDW House System, also used in Twilight 2000<BR>v2.2, and Dark Conspiracy), and is set some 70 years after the end of<BR>the MT Civil War. Many people vehemently dislike the Virus concept that<BR>this setting used, as well as the break with the core mechanics of CT &amp;<BR>MT (which were broadly compatible with each other)<BR><BR>T4 is Marc Miller's Traveller, produced by Imperium Games after GDW went<BR>under. It reverts to a system broadly compatible with CT and MT, and the<BR>base setting was Milieu 0, ie the time of the founding of the Third<BR>Imperium, some 1100 years earlier than the previous systems.<BR><BR>GT is a licensed variant of Traveller, following the demise of Imperium<BR>Games, and uses the GURPS system to play in the Traveller setting of<BR>c.1120, only in this variant Dulinor died in an explosion on his way to<BR>meet Strephon, so there is no Civil War and no Virus.<BR><BR>BITS (British Isles Traveller Support) produce a range of well regarded<BR>Traveller supplements and adventures, usable with any version (though<BR>generally based on T4 and more recently GT).<BR><BR>Which Books to get? Definitely get the CT Reprints, many of the GT<BR>Supplements are useful even if you don't intend playing Gurps Traveller,<BR>and the MT boxed set is still fairly easy to find, as is T4, and TNE.<BR>However, both MT and T4 are notorious for their errata, though these are<BR>fairly easy to find on the web, and TNE is radically different from any<BR>other version.<BR><BR>Just remember that 2300 isn't Traveller (though it is a good game in<BR>it's own right), and buy whichever set of core rules you come across.<BR>But *definitely* get the CT reprints... (and any BITS books you come<BR>across...)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:31:22 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Book questions (longer than usual for me)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hello Everyone:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After <BR>&gt; going thorugh several <BR>&gt; web sites I noticed there are several different versions of <BR>&gt; Traveller floating <BR>&gt; around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out which books to get to get started.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and <BR>&gt; straight Traveller?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps <BR>&gt; traveller and Traveller <BR>&gt; 2300?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lots more questions but that will be good for a start.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>Welcome John.<BR><BR>Traveller versions and TML abbrevs. (rough guide only, keep your flames to<BR>yourselves):<BR><BR>CT - Classic Traveller. The original set of the basic rules. Originally no<BR>backgroud material was provided. The official background followed a bit<BR>later (The Supplements and The Adventures). The orginal Little Black Books<BR>(LBB) are out of print now, but are being reprinted by Far Future<BR>Enterprises (FFE) as Big Floppy Black Books.<BR>MT - MegaTraveller. Set after the end of events in CT, when the Emperor was<BR>assasinated, the Imperium suffered an attempted coup and split into civil<BR>war (The Rebellion). At this time a silicon based life-form was removed from<BR>its research lab by one of the factions and developed into an AI weapon,<BR>better known as Virus. Also out of print. Reactionless drives get their<BR>first explicit mention.<BR>TNE - Traveller New Era. Quite a long time after the events in MT known<BR>space is starting to pull itself back together again in dribs and drabs. The<BR>Imperium and other governments were broken up by Virus, which has by now<BR>mutated into many various strains. Reactionless drive technology has been<BR>lost, replaced by Plasma Rockets (HePLAR). Out of print.<BR>T4 - AKA Marc Miller's Traveller. CT was set in the period 1105-1116<BR>(roughly), MT set in 1116-1125, TNE set in the 1200s. T4 is set in the year<BR>0. Thrusterplates and HePLAR. Debate continues about whether it should have<BR>been in print.&nbsp; I quite liked some of it.<BR>G:T - GURPS Traveller. Licenced alternate universe set in the same time<BR>period as MT, but it assumes that the Rebellion never happened. The silicon<BR>life form that was developed into Virus is (presumably) still in its lab,<BR>the Imperium and other governmants are florishing, and we all have Thruster<BR>Plates again! <BR>2300 AD - Differant game, but shares some of the same background. Set<BR>waaaaaaaaaaaaay before T4. Ships use very short range teleport drives that<BR>cycle rapidly instead of Jump Drives. <BR>FNORD: Just something Steve Jackson made up. Doesn't mean anything. This is<BR>all true. Really. FNORD.<BR>BITS: British Isles Traveller Support. Licenced publishers of excellent<BR>support material for all versions of Traveller. Give them your money.<BR><BR><BR>Suggested Starting points:<BR>CT or G:T, since they're the most available. Both are designed to use their<BR>own rule mechanics. If you already have a favourite system, why not use<BR>Traveller as a sourcebook? (apart from feeding starving writers, which is a<BR>good a reason as any to buy everything you can). I found the G:T book to be<BR>a good starting point personally, but I now have bits of everything ( OK, I<BR>bought and read TNE first, but it left me with more questions). <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:34:07 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Book questions<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Matt Bond [mailto:MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk]<BR>&gt; Sent: 13 November 2000 17:36<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Book questions<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: John Fox [mailto:jfox@verity.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 13 November 2000 16:45<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Book questions<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Hello Everyone:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After <BR>&gt; &gt; going thorugh several <BR>&gt; &gt; web sites I noticed there are several different versions of <BR>&gt; &gt; Traveller floating <BR>&gt; &gt; around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out which books to get to <BR>&gt; get started.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and <BR>&gt; &gt; straight Traveller?<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps <BR>&gt; &gt; traveller and Traveller <BR>&gt; &gt; 2300?<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lots more questions but that will be good for a start.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; John W. Fox<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>&lt;snip a brilliant summing up&gt;<BR><BR>Darn it, Matt, you beat me to publication again! :)<BR><BR>You going to Dragonmeet?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:31:01 +0100<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>I'll leave the other questions to the people who have been playing traveller<BR>since the 70:s, but since I'm an old 2300:er, I'll take this one.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between [...] and Traveller<BR>&gt; 2300?<BR><BR>Traveller 2300 (later edition known as 2300AD) is not set in the same<BR>universe as the rest of Traveller (thus the name change for the later<BR>edition). Instead it is based on the (now alternate) history of<BR>Twilight:2000. After WW3 the order of nations on earth is changed. In about<BR>2100 AD, a FTL drive is invented and the nations of Earth start colonizing<BR>nearby space. The background history is well though out and quite original.<BR>As the name implies, the game is set in the year 2300 (or thereabout).<BR>Adventures are mostly of the troubleshooting or military type (there is a<BR>great war going on between Humanity (mostly France, Germany and Great<BR>Britian, but also to some extent the US and Russia) and the Kafer, a hostile<BR>alien race). There are also a couple of scientific exploration type<BR>adventures. The game is a bit more hard sci-fi (imho) than Traveller. The<BR>only real violation of the laws of physics as we know or can extrapolate<BR>them is the stutterwarp drive. The star map used for the game setting is<BR>part of the Gliese catalog from 1969, i.e. pretty accurate stellar data for<BR>most stars within 50 lightyears. And, of course, in 3d ;-)<BR><BR>About 20 supplements and adventures were published, as well as a boxed ship<BR>to ship combat extension to the game, called Star Cruiser. This rule set<BR>contained ship construction and combat rules.<BR><BR>The rule set is as far as I know (I haven't played Twilight:2k) the same as<BR>Twilight:2k and d10 based.<BR><BR>The game has a very different feel compared to Traveller (any era), but is<BR>quite enjoyable. At least if you don't mind France having the same position<BR>in politics in the game as the US has in reality today (in my opinion that<BR>is one of the more original twists of the game background, that and Texas<BR>breaking away from the US, some say that was a reason the game didn't do too<BR>well in the States, but that's just hearsay and speculation).<BR><BR>Some company bought the rights to 2300AD when GDW went away, and pretty much<BR>nothing has been heard of the game since then. Thus it is all out of print<BR>and no new incarnation is planned or heard of as far as i know. 'tis a<BR>shame.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:41:12 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Did I miss something???<BR><BR>No, there was no playtest.<BR>&lt;shrug&gt; They don't playtest everything.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Dalton Spence [mailto:dalton.spence@hwcn.org]<BR>&gt; Sent: 13 November 2000 06:03<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com; GURPSnet-l@lists.io.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Did I miss something???<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As a loyal subscriber to Pyramid I was eagerly waiting for the GT:<BR>&gt; Modular Cutters playtest, when to my dismay I noticed that the GURPS<BR>&gt; Traveller books page at the Steve Jackson Games website listed it as<BR>&gt; "at the printers." While I'm aware that a specialist book like this<BR>&gt; one doesn't need a *lot* of playtesting, surely it deserves *some*.<BR>&gt; Did I miss it, or was it all done in-house?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; @==================================================@<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html&nbsp; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | Grandmother was distressed by the ocean for the&nbsp; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; skeptical code wheel. FNORD!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; @==================================================@<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:48:28 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 13 November 2000 16:15<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Paper?&nbsp; My!&nbsp; You were well-behaved as a child, Dean!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Paper, ants, petroleum, people, it all burns eventually.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeah, but only when the weather is&nbsp; cooperating.&nbsp; An&nbsp; alternative<BR>&gt; childhood game I remember was Macclesfield Roulette: set fire&nbsp; to<BR>&gt; a wasp on a over-crowded school bus and see who'd be stung and/or<BR>&gt; burned.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&nbsp; wonder&nbsp; what&nbsp; nasty&nbsp; games&nbsp; Ditzie&nbsp;&nbsp; played&nbsp;&nbsp; before<BR>&gt; 'graduating' to the real weapons?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Sadly I wasn't drinking when I read this, so it gets chalked up as 'Public<BR>Laughter that requires a detailed explanation'<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:48:48 -0500<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Oaths (was&nbsp; Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt;US soldiers (and all other uniformed services), all civilian federal<BR>employees, federal judges -- even postal workers take an oath to defend and<BR>uphold the Constitution.<BR><BR>- --Glenn&lt;<BR><BR>And the President and other elected or appointed officials and<BR>representatives.<BR>And a good thing too. This is most certainly not a Feudal nation.<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:50:11 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>The company is called Tantalus, and 2300 may someday re-emerge as an online game.<BR>Heliograph (the company who did the excellent Space:1889 reprints) raised the remote possibility of 2300AD reprints on the 2300AD list a little while back, so there's hope yet.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Monday, November 13, 2000, at 05:31 PM, Tage Borg wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Some company bought the rights to 2300AD when GDW went away, and pretty much <BR>&gt; nothing has been heard of the game since then. Thus it is all out of print <BR>&gt; and no new incarnation is planned or heard of as far as i know. 'tis a <BR>&gt; shame. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:03:31 +0100<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>Ohhh. I unsubscribed to the 2300 list due to lack of playing time. Perhaps I<BR>should have stayed on, just to keep up with the times. ;-)<BR><BR>The online game would only be Star Cruiser, though, huh? I'd love to see a<BR>sci-fi massively multiplayer rpg, but I can't really see 2300AD to be the<BR>one, sadly. Traveller is in a much better position, though. That'd really be<BR>something, too!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>&gt; The company is called Tantalus, and 2300 may someday re-emerge as an<BR>online game.<BR>&gt; Heliograph (the company who did the excellent Space:1889 reprints) raised<BR>the remote possibility of 2300AD reprints on the 2300AD list a little while<BR>back, so there's hope yet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; - Rob.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On Monday, November 13, 2000, at 05:31 PM, Tage Borg wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Some company bought the rights to 2300AD when GDW went away, and pretty<BR>much<BR>&gt; &gt; nothing has been heard of the game since then. Thus it is all out of<BR>print<BR>&gt; &gt; and no new incarnation is planned or heard of as far as i know. 'tis a<BR>&gt; &gt; shame.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:16:22 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Did I miss something???<BR><BR>The "playtest", as such, was really a series of discussions / suggestions /<BR>revisions that was done on the JTAS boards.&nbsp; I know Andy had to rewrite<BR>stuff several times because of things that came up in those threads (poor<BR>guy :)<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 9:41 AM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: RE: Did I miss something???<BR><BR><BR>No, there was no playtest.<BR>&lt;shrug&gt; They don't playtest everything.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Dalton Spence [mailto:dalton.spence@hwcn.org]<BR>&gt; Sent: 13 November 2000 06:03<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com; GURPSnet-l@lists.io.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Did I miss something???<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As a loyal subscriber to Pyramid I was eagerly waiting for the GT:<BR>&gt; Modular Cutters playtest, when to my dismay I noticed that the GURPS<BR>&gt; Traveller books page at the Steve Jackson Games website listed it as<BR>&gt; "at the printers." While I'm aware that a specialist book like this<BR>&gt; one doesn't need a *lot* of playtesting, surely it deserves *some*.<BR>&gt; Did I miss it, or was it all done in-house?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; @==================================================@<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html&nbsp; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | Grandmother was distressed by the ocean for the&nbsp; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; skeptical code wheel. FNORD!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; @==================================================@<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:32:53 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Book questions<BR><BR>John Fox wrote:<BR>&gt; I am trying to figure out which books to get to get started.<BR>&gt; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and straight<BR>&gt; Traveller?<BR>&gt; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps traveller<BR>&gt; and Traveller 2300?<BR>&gt; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR><BR>Hello John<BR><BR>First a quick run down on the Traveller versions:<BR><BR>- - First there was Traveller.&nbsp; When referring to the original game<BR>&nbsp; people now call it CT (Classic Traveller).&nbsp; The&nbsp; original&nbsp; rule<BR>&nbsp; books were small and had black covers ... thus they were called<BR>&nbsp; the LBBs (Little&nbsp; Black&nbsp; Books).&nbsp; Later&nbsp; CT&nbsp; was&nbsp; published&nbsp; in<BR>&nbsp; 8.5"x11" size too.&nbsp; There was an optional campaign setting&nbsp; set<BR>&nbsp; in the Imperial year 1105+ ...&nbsp; this&nbsp; is&nbsp; now&nbsp; referred&nbsp; to&nbsp; as<BR>&nbsp; either Milieu 1100 of the OTU (Official Traveller Universe)&nbsp; or<BR>&nbsp; as the Classic Era.&nbsp; CT was published by GDW and&nbsp; numerous&nbsp; 3rd<BR>&nbsp; party publishers under licence.<BR><BR>- - Next&nbsp; came&nbsp; MegaTraveller&nbsp; (or&nbsp; MT&nbsp; for&nbsp; short).&nbsp; This&nbsp; was&nbsp; an<BR>&nbsp; evolution of the original rules incorporating many&nbsp; tweaks&nbsp; and<BR>&nbsp; fixes that had come out before hand.&nbsp; A 3rd party optional task<BR>&nbsp; system became a core of the rules.&nbsp; The campaign setting&nbsp; throw<BR>&nbsp; the OTU of Milieu 1100 into a massive civil war starting in the<BR>&nbsp; year 1116.&nbsp; It was called the Rebellion Era.&nbsp; CT was&nbsp; published<BR>&nbsp; by GDW and DGP.<BR><BR>- - Third came Traveller: The New Era (or TNE).&nbsp; This threw out the<BR>&nbsp; ruleset and used the GDW house rules instead&nbsp; (which&nbsp; had&nbsp; been<BR>&nbsp; developed for Twilight:2000 2nd Edition).&nbsp; For&nbsp; that&nbsp; reason&nbsp; I<BR>&nbsp; tend to think of the TNE rules as a 'simulation'&nbsp; of&nbsp; Traveller<BR>&nbsp; in&nbsp; another&nbsp; ruleset.&nbsp; The&nbsp; campaign&nbsp; setting&nbsp; dealt&nbsp; with&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; aftermath of the Rebellion Era.&nbsp; TNE was published by GDW.<BR><BR>- - After that GDW went bust and Imperium Games entered the&nbsp; scene.<BR>&nbsp; They tried to come up with a ruleset that was an&nbsp; evolution&nbsp; of<BR>&nbsp; the CT rules but not quite MT&nbsp; (somewhere&nbsp; inbetween).&nbsp; It&nbsp; was<BR>&nbsp; called Marc Miller's Traveller or T4.&nbsp; The campaign setting was<BR>&nbsp; the first century of the Imperium of&nbsp; the&nbsp; OTU&nbsp; and&nbsp; is&nbsp; called<BR>&nbsp; Milieu 0.<BR><BR>- - Marc Miller is working on an improved version of&nbsp; T4&nbsp; initially<BR>&nbsp; called T4.1 but when Imperium Games went bust it was renamed to<BR>&nbsp; T5.&nbsp; There is no release date yet.<BR><BR>- - In the meantime there is now a GURPS variant of Traveller (GT).<BR>&nbsp; This uses the GURPS rules (thus is&nbsp; another&nbsp; 'simulation'&nbsp; like<BR>&nbsp; TNE).&nbsp; It is set in an alternate post-classic era&nbsp; where&nbsp; there<BR>&nbsp; was no destructive rebellion.&nbsp; It is published by SJ Games.<BR><BR>- - You also asked about Traveller:2300.&nbsp; This is *not*&nbsp; Traveller.<BR>&nbsp; It was rereleased as 2300AD due to&nbsp; the&nbsp; confusion.&nbsp; 2300AD&nbsp; is<BR>&nbsp; the same game universe as Twilight:2000 but&nbsp; 300&nbsp; years&nbsp; later.<BR>&nbsp; As such it&nbsp; is&nbsp; still&nbsp; Earth-based&nbsp; (but&nbsp; France&nbsp; is&nbsp; the&nbsp; most<BR>&nbsp; powerful nation), it has&nbsp; a&nbsp; 3D&nbsp; real-world&nbsp; star&nbsp; map&nbsp; (errors<BR>&nbsp; notwithstanding),&nbsp; and&nbsp; stutterwarp&nbsp; instead&nbsp; of&nbsp; jump&nbsp;&nbsp; drive.<BR>&nbsp; Ironically it has its own ruleset and was not converted to&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; GDW house rules.&nbsp; It was published by GDW.<BR><BR>Hope that wasn't too confusing.&nbsp; Now what books should&nbsp; you&nbsp; get?<BR>That's largely a matter of taste ... and how much effort you want<BR>to spend.<BR><BR>- - An obvious option would be GT.&nbsp; If you like&nbsp; GURPS&nbsp; you&nbsp; should<BR>&nbsp; love GT.&nbsp; You'll need the basic GURPS rule book&nbsp; and&nbsp; the&nbsp; main<BR>&nbsp; GURPS:Traveller book for&nbsp; starters.&nbsp; There&nbsp; are&nbsp; several&nbsp; other<BR>&nbsp; very good GT supplements too.&nbsp; It should be ease to find as&nbsp; it<BR>&nbsp; is currently in print.&nbsp; However, if you don't&nbsp; like&nbsp; GURPS,&nbsp; or<BR>&nbsp; you find antiquated non-metric measuring systems&nbsp; unnecessarily<BR>&nbsp; burdensome then ...&nbsp; still&nbsp; consider&nbsp; the&nbsp; GT&nbsp; supplements&nbsp; for<BR>&nbsp; source material (once converted&nbsp; to&nbsp; whatever&nbsp; ruleset&nbsp; you&nbsp; do<BR>&nbsp; choose).<BR><BR>- - Another equally obvious option would be CT.&nbsp; This has just been<BR>&nbsp; reprinted so it should&nbsp; be&nbsp; easy&nbsp; to&nbsp; get&nbsp; hold&nbsp; of.&nbsp; Volume&nbsp; 1<BR>&nbsp; contains all 8 rule LBBs, volume 2 contains all&nbsp; 13&nbsp; supplement<BR>&nbsp; LBBs, volume 3 has the adventure LBBs but&nbsp; I&nbsp; haven't&nbsp; seen&nbsp; it<BR>&nbsp; yet.<BR><BR>- - If you like hard-SF then 2300AD might be the way to go.&nbsp; At the<BR>&nbsp; moment its hard to find as its out&nbsp; of&nbsp; print&nbsp; but&nbsp; someone&nbsp; is<BR>&nbsp; trying to reprint them.&nbsp; The reprint will either come out in&nbsp; 6<BR>&nbsp; months time or not at all.<BR><BR>- - If you like hard-SF but want to stick&nbsp; to&nbsp; Traveller&nbsp; then&nbsp; TNE<BR>&nbsp; might be your best choice.&nbsp; Again its hard to find as&nbsp; its&nbsp; out<BR>&nbsp; of print.<BR><BR>- - If you find CT is a little too light, and TNE too heavy then MT<BR>&nbsp; is the choice for you.&nbsp; A good ruleset marred only by some poor<BR>&nbsp; production standards.&nbsp; However, the errata is easily&nbsp; available<BR>&nbsp; from several web sites so if you can find the rules&nbsp; themselves<BR>&nbsp; then this shouldn't be too much of a problem.<BR><BR>- - Avoid T4.&nbsp; Some of it is useful (to the Traveller expert),&nbsp; but<BR>&nbsp; some of it is diabolical (and not for the novice).<BR><BR>Having collected everything over the years my personal choice&nbsp; is<BR>MT rules set in the classic era.&nbsp; But many people will&nbsp; disagree.<BR>Its all a matter of personal choice and how much effort you&nbsp; want<BR>to spend on aquiring the ruleset of your choice.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3285<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3286</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>11/13/00 1:16:36 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, November 13 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3286<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: OT Re: Washington<BR>Re: OT Re: Washington<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR>Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: Sayat?<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: OT Re: Washington<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:32:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 3:47 PM +0000 11/12/00, Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;At 08:43 -0500 12/11/00, howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Second, taking popular vote would reduce the power of small<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;(Population-wise.) states to determine elections.&nbsp; That's why the Electoral<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;College is safe from snap-decision tinkering.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The European Union divides the level of representation amongst <BR>&gt;&gt;states based upon the population numbers. The net result is that <BR>&gt;&gt;Germany, France, Italy and the UK have the highest levels of <BR>&gt;&gt;representation in the parliament. (It used to be equal, but I'm not <BR>&gt;&gt;sure if Germany's level has gone up since they re-unified). From <BR>&gt;&gt;what I can see from the US and UK media coverage (and shoot me down <BR>&gt;&gt;if I'm wrong here), you effectively have the same with the electoral <BR>&gt;&gt;college - smaller states having less votes. Maybe it isn't tied <BR>&gt;&gt;directly to population in the same way as the EU (or the UK for that <BR>&gt;&gt;matter), but it is weighted.&nbsp; In the UK, we used to vote our <BR>&gt;&gt;European MPs in with First Past the Post - this has now changed to <BR>&gt;&gt;PR, with no real observable effect at the moment.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Does this come from&nbsp; the notion that all the states should have <BR>&gt;&gt;equal weight in determining the president?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is basically true.&nbsp; The states were suppose to represent<BR>&gt; their people.&nbsp; But the president was the leader of the nation<BR>&gt; and not the states.&nbsp; Though there is a minimum number of<BR>&gt; electors a state can have so that biases things a little bit<BR>&gt; toward the small states.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Similarly, the House of representatives<BR>&gt; was suppose to represent the people and was popularly elected<BR>&gt; while the senate more represented the states.<BR><BR>Yeah, until 1912, the Senators were appointed by the state legislatures<BR>or the governor.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:33:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT Re: Washington<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Didn't the Towering entry from the Hubworlds in the TNE rulebook say the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; system had a history of no nobles?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Consider that in real history there are multiple instances of "noble"<BR>&gt;&gt;positions that were obtained via votes. The Holy Roman Emperor was<BR>&gt;&gt;selected by the Electors, for example. And I recall reading about<BR>&gt;&gt;several places where a noble's heir had to be approved, either by a<BR>&gt;&gt;council of nobles, or some superior nobles. Note that in the case of<BR>&gt;&gt;Poland, the "cvouncil" was their Parliment! (or at least one house of<BR>&gt;&gt;it!).<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;So "elected noble" *isn't* the oxymoron it sounds like.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But Towering does Towering have nobles, or merely representatives who merely<BR>&gt; have that responsibility in the Moot?.&nbsp; IIRC, the entry said that the<BR>&gt; system's Solomani heritage gave it a history of being *without* nobles.<BR><BR>"Member of the Moot" = "Imperial Noble".<BR><BR>"Imperial Noble" &lt;&gt; "'local' noble"<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:43:00 -0000<BR>From: "Stuart Ferris" &lt;stuart.ferris@virgin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>&gt;This is the one that I'm going to use if I can't find anything more<BR>&gt;"realistic". My major problem with Heaven and Earth is that you can't enter<BR>&gt;the central star's stats properly, particularly luminosity. Instead it just<BR>&gt;"figures these out" for you based on the star type that one types in. This<BR>&gt;means the luminosity it supplies is often wrong to a greater or lesser<BR>&gt;extent. It would save me some time if I could just punch in the figure that<BR>&gt;I already know.<BR><BR>H&amp;E was designed to be faithful to all of the Traveller rules on system and<BR>world building. I agree that there are a lot of problems inherent in these<BR>rules.<BR><BR>I am currently working on a comprehensive editor for the program that will<BR>allow the user to modify certain stats that they are not happy with. ETA of<BR>the initial version of the editor should be round about Xmas.<BR><BR>I would like to look at creating new set of system/world building rules for<BR>inclusion in the program and would welcome any feedback or suggestions from<BR>the list.<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris<BR>stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:47:32 +0000<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>John Fox &lt;jfox@verity.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Hello Everyone:<BR><BR><BR>Welcome!<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After going thorugh<BR>several<BR>&gt;web sites I noticed there are several different versions of Traveller<BR>floating<BR>&gt;around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out which books to get to get started.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and straight Traveller?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps traveller and<BR>Traveller<BR>&gt;2300?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Lots more questions but that will be good for a start.<BR><BR><BR>Others have given you useful overviews of the different eras and options<BR>which may be all that you need (and more!), however, if you really want to<BR>'figure out which books to get' then there's only one solution: buy _The<BR>Traveller Bibliography_ from BITS (or Warehouse 23 in the US) which goes<BR>through everything ever published for Traveller and outlines its content,<BR>gives bibliographic details and comments on the books.<BR><BR>Of course, it might be a little over the top for your purposes at 60 odd<BR>pages, but I'm a little biased having spent several years compiling it!<BR><BR>:-)<BR><BR><BR>(It also has a helpful introduction which tells you about the different<BR>milieux and rule sets).<BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:53:03 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:21:52 +0100<BR>&gt;From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Admirals in the Spinward Marches<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;Got it. The mistake you're making is assuming that Santanocheev remained a <BR>&gt;rear<BR>&gt;admiral. He didn't. He was promoted to sector admiral (being jumped, as I've<BR>&gt;argued before, over dozens or even scores of other admirals).<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Could the -reason- why Santanocheev was promoted so high also be the reason <BR>why Norris fired his Tuchis as soon as he got the Imperial Warrant?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:02:36 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR><BR>&gt;Hello Everyone:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After going thorugh <BR>&gt;several<BR>&gt;web sites I noticed there are several different versions of Traveller <BR>&gt;floating<BR>&gt;around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out which books to get to get started.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and straight Traveller?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps traveller and <BR>&gt;Traveller<BR>&gt;2300?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lots more questions but that will be good for a start.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I've only been on the list for a month or two, and I don't own all the <BR>books, but I hope that I can help you. Here goes:<BR><BR>Rules Sets:<BR><BR>Traveller (AKA Classic Traveller or CT)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the original version of the game, released way back in the <BR>seventies. As far as I know, it was the first Sci-Fi RPG EVER. It's a good <BR>system and is easy to get because its being reprinted.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; What makes the original stand out so much is probably its simplicity. It <BR>was quick and straight to the point. However, this offered little variety <BR>and realism suffered as well. Also, there is no generic task system. Each <BR>skill has its own rules, and a lot of improvisation is necessary.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Another problem with this version is that skill-wise it grew too big for <BR>its britches. Skills changed depending on the character generation system <BR>you were using, (there's an expanded system that resolves careers on a <BR>year-by-year basis and Supplement 4 introduces twelve new careers) skills <BR>would mean different things and in at least one case just be renamed <BR>(Air/Raft is Grav in Supp. 4).<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, space combat will have you spinning around in circles if you don't <BR>have a lot of time for the mapped system or the patience to read the non-map <BR>system carefully.<BR><BR>My Ranking: 4 1/2 out of 5<BR><BR>MegaTraveller<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't have MegaTraveller (AKA MT), so I can't say much about it. <BR>However, there's a LOT of errata out there, so approach with caution.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; I do have a good idea about what the task system is like, and it seems to <BR>be the best.<BR><BR>My Ranking: ??? (5 out of 5 for the task system)<BR><BR>Traveller: The New Era<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Again, I don't own this (known as TNE). It uses a twenty-sided die for <BR>its task system, which (despite complaints of heresy) is pretty decent.<BR><BR>My Ranking: ??? (4 out of 5 for the task system)<BR><BR>Marc Miller's Traveller<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Known as T4, this is the last edition of 'true' Traveller to be <BR>published. It has a lot of errata because it was pushed to meet an <BR>unrealistic deadline. It can't even be played properly without the errata. <BR>But otherwise, its good.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The ship design system is detailed and allows for much customization, but <BR>its complex and almost scared me away. Also, forget about using the starship <BR>combat system included. For ships, I recommend using the systems in CT Book <BR>5, High Guard and disregarding the T4 system altogether (this opinion may <BR>change).<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The damage system is less than perfect (if you'd like, I'll send you a <BR>copy of fixes that I came up with).<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for the task system: It's good, but unrealistic and uses several dice <BR>(I rate it 3 1/2 out of 5). It's good enough for me, though. I recommend <BR>using the system that I've heard is going to be used in T5 (you can find it <BR>in the BITS task system sheet in the archives section at <BR>http://www.bits.org)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Character generation is, dare I say, BETTER than CT, but there are fewer <BR>careers than when using Supp. 4. The upside of this is that careers in T4 <BR>tend to overlap (Agent can be used for SolSec, for instance, and Rogue or <BR>Merchant for Pirates). I would have liked to see Belter and Bureaucrat or <BR>Diplomat (included, so I've heard, in T5 as the pseudo-career Functionary). <BR>PCs have more skills and higher skill levels, and the task system has been <BR>adjusted for this.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; If you overlook the need for errata and apply a few common sense fixes, <BR>you've got yourself a great game, IMO!<BR><BR>My Ranking: 4 out of 5 w/o High Guard+Fixes, 5 out of 5 with them.<BR><BR>GURPS Traveller (AKA GT)<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; What can I say? Its GURPS. Its a good resource, though, due to its <BR>extensive library data section.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The skills of GT are more varied, due to it being GURPS, but character <BR>creation is more of a hassle because of it.<BR><BR>My Ranking: N/A (If you like GURPS, you'll like GT)<BR><BR>Traveller: 2300<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; This is not part of the Traveller 'canon'. It's another game entirely.<BR><BR><BR>Now on to the Milieux (campaign settings):<BR><BR>The Golden Age of the Third Imperium<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the standard milieu for most campaigns (I think). Originally <BR>detailed in Classic Traveller, it depicts the Third Imperium (the greatest <BR>interstellar government in history) during its heyday of Imperial years 1105 <BR>to 1116 (the 57th century AD). Its a good setting, but some have complained <BR>in the past that it is too static.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The most important places in this milieu are the Spinward Marches sector <BR>(where the Imperium is in constant strife with the Zhodani Consulate and a <BR>couple of pocket empires/client states and !!!WARNING: SHAMELESS PLUG!!! my <BR>own "Chronicles of T.C. Harrison" take place (subcribe today by sending a <BR>blank email to TCHarrison-subscribe@egroups.com) !!!END SHAMELESS PLUG!!! ;)<BR><BR>The Rebellion<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; In the Imperial year 1116, Emporer Strephon is killed by Archduke <BR>Dulinor, and a civil war soon follows, even though Strephon isn't really <BR>dead (it was a double that got done in).<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't own this, but I know that some have complained that it wasn't <BR>necessary to increase excitement and shouldn't have happened.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; This milieu was detailed in MegaTraveller.<BR><BR>The Regency<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Set around what would have been the year 1200, this setting depicts life <BR>after the devastation caused by a computer virus that crippled the warring <BR>factions and drove civilization back into the Spinward Marches and Deneb <BR>sectors. The main strongholds of mankind are the Regency and the Reformation <BR>Coalition, and the Zhodani Consulate.<BR>&nbsp; I don't own this, but it sounds cool (I'm a <BR>pocket-empires-struggling-to-rebuild-civilization kind of guy).<BR>&nbsp; This is the milieu detailed for TNE.<BR><BR>Milieu: 0<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Set against the birth of the Third Impierium, Milieu: 0 is about mankind <BR>picking itself up after the Long Night. The concept is good, and it allows <BR>for scout campaigns, but the book itself is a disappointment. My biggest <BR>complaint is that the map of the Core sector doesn't match the rest of the <BR>books and is really only good for campaigns years after its founding rather <BR>than before. If you get this, go ahead and reroll the law levels of the <BR>worlds. A glitch in the computer caused it to be exactly the same as the <BR>government type.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the standard milieu for T4.<BR><BR>GURPS Traveller<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The milieu (actually its more of a timeline) of GURPS Traveller is <BR>essentially the Golden Age of Classic Traveller, but its set around the year <BR>1117 (officially (according to the Traveller News Service) the year is <BR>almost 1118) in an alternate timeline where Emporer Strephon is not killed <BR>and the Rebellion never occurs. Virus doesn't exist either (the reasons are <BR>more legal than scientific ;).<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; (Actually, this is the milieu T.C. Harrison is set in).<BR><BR>So there you go. I hope that this helped.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>P.S. If you joined the TML to talk about Traveller, look elsewhere. I'm <BR>almost serious. Don't leave, though - there's some good stuff here!<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:35:43 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Hello Everyone:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After going<BR>&gt; thorugh several web sites I noticed there are several different<BR>&gt; versions of Traveller floating around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out<BR>&gt; which books to get to get started.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and straight Traveller?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps traveller and <BR>&gt; Traveller 2300?<BR><BR>"Traveller 2300" became "2300 AD" and *neither* is related to Traveller<BR>except in that they are science fiction role playing games. <BR><BR>"Classic Traveller" (CT) became Megatraveller (MT), and the two are<BR>reasonably compatible.<BR><BR>Traveller: The New Era (TNE) involved a change in the rules system, as<BR>well as a background a lot of folks had trouble with.<BR><BR>Traveller 4th edition (T4) had some major problems due to the publisher<BR>screwing things up. It was also set over a thousand years before CT, MT<BR>and TNE. The rules are more CT/MT than TNE (as I recall).<BR><BR>GURPS: Traveller (GT) has much the same background as CT, but the<BR>Rebellion that's the main background feature of MT (and supposedly<BR>leads to the background of TNE) never happens. So it's an "alternate<BR>timeline". And, of course, it uses the GURPS rule system.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:51:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; 2) He was sneaking around the ship checking on an illegal animal <BR>&gt;&gt; he was importing.&nbsp; Unfortunately, there were good reasons why the <BR>&gt;&gt; animal was illegal and it killed him.&nbsp; Now, the animal is loose <BR>&gt;&gt; somewhere on the ship...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As a reversal of this idea, I recently pulled a rather nasty trick on one of<BR>&gt; my players (my gf, in fact). She was in a desperate rush to get off planet<BR>&gt; and had insufficient funds <BR>&gt; for passage. Sadly, she also had comparatively few marketable skills to work<BR>&gt; passage. So she stowed away. Aboard a Drakaran (G:T AR1) freighter. Just<BR>&gt; before the entire crew entered The Stalking. :)<BR><BR>She's lucky. <BR><BR>Stowing away on a spaceship/starship is apt to be *quickly* fatal. <BR><BR>The passenger spaces are occupied, and not a place you can really<BR>"hide" easily. The engineering spaces tend to be occupied by crew,<BR>dangerous, or both. <BR><BR>That leaves the cargo spaces. And unless you are hauling live cargo,<BR>there are good reasons to have them either a vacuum, or at least with a<BR>pure nitrogen atmosphere (tends to kill vermin, and prevents fires). <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:46:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; In fact, as I recall, it's not physically *possible* to focus<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; light to a smaller area than the source!<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Laser light, maybe. I seem to recall setting fire to paper as a<BR>&gt;&gt; child, and I'm fairly sure that my magnifying glass focused the<BR>&gt;&gt; sunlight to less than a couple thousand miles across.<BR><BR>Ooops! It was late. <BR><BR>It's not possible to focus light to a higher *intensity* than the<BR>source. So your little image of the sun, can't be more than 6000<BR>degrees. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:17:20 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>&gt;H&amp;E was designed to be faithful to all of the Traveller rules on system and <BR>&gt;world building. I agree that there are a lot of problems inherent in these <BR>&gt;rules.<BR><BR>H&amp;E *does* do a fantastic job at what it was designed to do: make Traveller <BR>worlds. I remain in awe of the bit that generates the world maps, for <BR>example.<BR><BR>But as you say, the Traveller rules are, um, a little quirky. I suppose <BR>that's not too surprising when you consider the base UWP rules date back to <BR>pre-RAD tool times, even pre-almost-any-spreadsheet-you'd-care-to-use times. <BR>I also imagine that, in 1978, it was nearly impossible to find decent <BR>information on how planets really work. I've long since given up on finding <BR>my holy grail: a copy of Stephen Dole's "Habitable Planets for Man" -- the <BR>original edition, not the one with Isaac Asimov. Only the advent of the Web <BR>(and the fact that it's starting to show its age anyway) has prevented me <BR>from doing a Thomas Crown and stealing the one in the local university <BR>library! &lt;g&gt; Long irrelvant digression aside, in the far future year of 2000 <BR>these resources exist and I find that the UWP system grates.<BR><BR>&gt;I would like to look at creating new set of system/world building rules for <BR>&gt;inclusion in the program and would welcome any feedback or suggestions from <BR>&gt;the list.<BR><BR>To the extent that what I laughably call my file system can help, I'll send <BR>you what I've got with regards to planetary system generation. I think I've <BR>ferreted out and bookmarked most everything worthwhile on the web, both <BR>game-specific and real-world science. Tyge Sjstrand's system, the one that <BR>Peter recommended at:<BR><BR>www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol<BR><BR>is awfully good. I've been relying on it for a while as a "one stop shop" <BR>for the necessary hard-core formulas.<BR><BR>(Incidentally, I noticed that H&amp;E often puts gas giants in Orbit 0 of the G- <BR>and K-class stars I feed it. This surprised me, as I didn't think that the <BR>Traveller system could produce systems like the ones that have actually been <BR>found -- to the consternation of astrophysicists -- in recent years. Am I <BR>misremembering the "Scouts" rules, or was this an addition of your own?)<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:33:33 -0800<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sayat?<BR><BR>Eris &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; On 11/12/00 at 08:04 PM,&nbsp; Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt; said:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:53:56 -0500 (EST), Jonathan McDermott<BR>&gt; &gt;&lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Someone (I'm sorry, I forgot who) mentioned that the Sayat were described <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;in a Freelance Trav article, bnt I couldn't find it.&nbsp; Could someone please <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;point me in the right idirection?&nbsp; Thanks in advance!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;They _used_ to be on Freelance Traveller, about three redesigns<BR>&gt; &gt;back, when FT was on Dragonfire.&nbsp; Kenji Schwarz, their creator, was<BR>&gt; &gt;doing some extensive reworking of some aspects, and at that time, I<BR>&gt; &gt;felt that it was appropriate to 'pull' them.&nbsp; I still have the<BR>&gt; &gt;original material; I don't know where Kenji stands on its<BR>&gt; &gt;'accuracy'.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If anyone knows how to get in contact with Kenji, could you, please?&nbsp; It <BR>&gt; wouldn't be appropriate to use any of his material for a proposed writeup<BR>&gt; without his permission.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ulterior motive:&nbsp; I'd like to see Kenji's entertaining posts back on the <BR>&gt; list. <BR><BR>I'll forward this post to Kenji.<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:42 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;001101c04d9c$17a96bf0$230410ac@1ghz&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Could someone please post the details of the 2300AD mailing list?<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:51:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Ooops! It was late. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's not possible to focus light to a higher *intensity* than the<BR>&gt; source. So your little image of the sun, can't be more than 6000<BR>&gt; degrees. :-)<BR><BR>Assuming your light comes from a blackbody emitter, yes.&nbsp; That doesn't apply<BR>to lasers.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:51:57 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 13 Nov 2000, at 0:59, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I've seen this argument before. However, it fails when there are more than two<BR>&gt; choices (those voting for third parties are effectively disenfranchised), and<BR>&gt; the nature of the system ensures that there will only be two choices because<BR>&gt; those voting for third parties are effectively disenfrancised).<BR><BR>Which was certainly a factor in the main party's resistance to any sort of <BR>proportional elective system here. <BR><BR>- --<BR>Rupert Boleyn<BR>"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:51:57 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 12 Nov 2000, at 3:13, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Except for electors from some states that have laws requiring them to,<BR>&gt; they don't even have to vote for the candidate that you "voted for"! <BR>&gt; It's only happened a few times, but it has happened.<BR><BR>Anyone ever get shot by the people they 'represented' after doing that? Mind <BR>you given what our MPs fairly routinely do in the course of 'representing' us I <BR>don't know why I'm even surprised that the same thing could happen somewhere <BR>else.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Rupert Boleyn<BR>"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:47:06 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT Re: Washington<BR><BR>At 11:19 -0500 13/11/00, "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;This is basically true.&nbsp; The states were suppose to represent<BR>&gt;their people.&nbsp; But the president was the leader of the nation<BR>&gt;and not the states.&nbsp; Though there is a minimum number of<BR>&gt;electors a state can have so that biases things a little bit<BR>&gt;toward the small states.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Similarly, the House of representatives<BR>&gt;was suppose to represent the people and was popularly elected<BR>&gt;while the senate more represented the states.<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:37:31 -0500<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>The only 2300AD mailing list I'm aware of is the one at egroups.<BR>http://www.egroups.com/group/2300ad<BR><BR>Hope this helps...<BR><BR>Anthony<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Megan Robertson" &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Cc: &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 2:42 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;001101c04d9c$17a96bf0$230410ac@1ghz&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Could someone please post the details of the 2300AD mailing list?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mexal.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.209 / Virus Database: 99 - Release Date: 11/2/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 21:51:09 +0100<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>more info is available here:<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/ke01004.htm<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /tage<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Megan Robertson" &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Cc: &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 8:42 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;001101c04d9c$17a96bf0$230410ac@1ghz&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Could someone please post the details of the 2300AD mailing list?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mexal.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:11:11 -0800<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Book questions (longer than usual for me)<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;massive snip&gt;<BR>&gt;FNORD: Just something Steve Jackson made up. Doesn't mean anything. This is<BR>&gt;all true. Really. FNORD.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Come on now, give credit where credit is due.&nbsp; Steve Jackson did not<BR>come up with FNORD, it is from the _Illuminatus Trilogy_ by R.A. Wilson and<BR>Robert Shea.&nbsp; SJGames picked up the term when they adapted some of the<BR>ideas/background of the books into their game Illuminati.&nbsp; (I once<BR>recommended the books to a friend, who was quickly hooked and read them<BR>compulsively from cover to cover...and probably never forgave me for it.<BR>:o)&nbsp; They give a whole new meaning to the term "Mind F**k".)&nbsp;&nbsp; Anyone who<BR>does not know what FNORD means can contact me off-list - or better yet, just<BR>read the books.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Ewige Blummenkraft!<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3286<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.74]) by air-xa01.mail.aol.com (v77.13) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:16:35 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:16:07 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA77304;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:11:32 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:11:19 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA77028<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:11:19 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:11:19 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011132111.QAA77028@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3286<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3287</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, November 14 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3287<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Yileans<BR>re: Book questions<BR>Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>For low-tech Striker: Whippet<BR>Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR>Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>Re: Oaths (was&nbsp; Re: Washington<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>Tank Miniatures<BR>Imperial Compromises<BR>Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>Re: Washington<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:45:19 -0800<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;I recall a bit of plumbing "trivia" I came across. There's a rule about<BR>&gt;how long the hose on handheld showers can be. Why? Because of incident<BR>&gt;where folks were using them in a bathtub, dropped them in the water and<BR>&gt;got out of the tub. Which, inder the wrong conditions can cause the<BR>&gt;hose to act like a siphon, sucking dirty water into the supply lines.<BR>&gt;EWWWW!!!! <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Kind of late to be responding to this, but I've been sick with the<BR>flu since Wednesday (survived the floods in southern England, only to<BR>succumb to a virus).&nbsp; In my old job, I used to test plumbing products, so<BR>had to read those standards way too many times.&nbsp; There are actually a wide<BR>variety of requirements and tricks to prevent 'backflow' - things like<BR>hidden check valves, air gaps, vacuum breakers, and so on.&nbsp; Most are very<BR>hard to get at or to disable.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ObTrav - It should be pretty hard to get the something into the<BR>wrong lines in a starship's engineering or life support systems by accident,<BR>and equally hard to get them in by design. (Stories notwithstanding of the<BR>guy who tried to steal some gas from a recreational vehicle via siphoning by<BR>mouth...and dunked his tube into the sewage holding tank rather than the<BR>gastank)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- --------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - (you know the drill)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:56:07 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>&gt;Have you tried 'Accrete?' This is a program that simulates star system<BR>&gt;formation using (fairly) up-to-date Planetographic (sic) theories.<BR><BR>Hmm, I like the amount of detail on this one, but it *still* doesn't let you <BR>input the luminosity of the central star yourself. Waaah! I think I know <BR>what I'm asking for Christmas.<BR><BR>ObTrav: "I think I know what I'm asking for the Emperor's Birthday"<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:54:57 -0600<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Yileans<BR><BR>Anybody who has any info on these please contact me via e-mail.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:18:52 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Book questions<BR><BR>At 13:34 -0500 13/11/00, John Fox &lt;jfox@verity.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After going <BR>&gt;thorugh several<BR>&gt;web sites I noticed there are several different versions of Traveller floating<BR>&gt;around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out which books to get to get started.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and straight Traveller?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps traveller and Traveller<BR>&gt;2300?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR><BR><BR>Classic Traveller was released in 1977 by GDW and has the famous <BR>little black books (LBBs). This was expanded with supplements for <BR>merchants, space navy, ground forces etc. The mechanics were based on <BR>2D6, with success often being a roll of 8+ with modifiers for skills <BR>etc. There were a number of linked games (Striker for miniatures etc, <BR>MayDay for starships etc). It had a history which moved from around <BR>1100 to 1115 Imperial. A number of thrid parties (FASA, Judges Guild, <BR>DGP, etc) produced licensed supplements. DGP produced a task system <BR>which structured skill use....<BR><BR>Eventually, these rules were amalgamated, rationalised. The space <BR>construction system and weapons sequences from Striker, the advanced <BR>character generation and DGPs task system where all drawn together to <BR>produce MegaTraveller. However, there was a large amount of errata <BR>associated with it which GDW&nbsp; slowly corrected with reprints as and <BR>when they happened. The history moved forward to 1116 and the <BR>Imperium was torn asunder by the assassination of the Emperor. Over <BR>the next 13 years game time everything fell apart. DGP were heavily <BR>involved in this version of Traveller, and produced much good <BR>material. Other licensees included Seeker Gaming Systems.<BR><BR>MegaTraveller was replaced by Traveller: the New Era. In this, an <BR>audacious plot line (the Virus) a lethal superweapon was released and <BR>destroyed all of space faring culture as we know it and changed the <BR>fundamental laws of physics (okay I'm joking, but the TNE view of <BR>technology differed from CT and MT). This was set in the year 1200 as <BR>the survivors set out to recapture the stars. The system was totally <BR>different to that used for CT and MT, and used GDW's House (D20 <BR>based) system also used in Twilight 2000 2.2 and Dark Conspiracy. <BR>Very different feel and mechanic.<BR><BR>Sadly, GDW went under around 1995, and the Traveller franchise was <BR>soon (96) picked up by a company called Imperium Games. They produced <BR>a new version T4/Marc Miller's Traveller/ Traveller Fourth Edition <BR>which returned to the D6 based concepts of CT, with a new task <BR>system, and technology design like TNE. However, Imperium Games <BR>failed to quality check and proof read their material, and the good <BR>stuff was lost in errata and errors. Under the rules was a good <BR>system, but the T4.1 (revised and expanded edition) was not released <BR>before Marc Miller pulled the plug on their licence.<BR><BR>T4.1 appears to be the basis for T5, the edition that Marc Miller is <BR>currently working on with his FarFuture Enterprises company.<BR><BR>Steve Jackson Games, Inc obtained a licence for Traveller for their <BR>GURPS system, and have produced a large number of quality books under <BR>the helm of Loren Wiseman (one of the original GDW and Traveller <BR>authors). Their system uses 3D6 as the basis.<BR><BR>Presently, there are two editions in print - GURPS Traveller and the <BR>Classic Traveller Reprints by Far Future Enterprises.<BR><BR>The latter are a series of compendiums of the original books - to <BR>date all the rules have been released as one volume, the supplements <BR>in another, and the adventures in another.<BR><BR>Personally, I prefer the CT/MT/T4 mechanic - however, I would suggest <BR>that you consider GT with GURPS Lite (a free download) and look at <BR>buying 'the Classic Adventures' reprint to use for plots. It would be <BR>a good start.<BR><BR>Also look at BITS ( http://www.bits.org.uk/ ) and Freelance Traveller <BR>(which is at http://www.downport.com/ ) for more information and free <BR>stuff.<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:57:04 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR><BR>At 16:11 -0500 13/11/00, "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; The ship design system is detailed and allows for much customization, but<BR>&gt;its complex and almost scared me away. Also, forget about using the starship<BR>&gt;combat system included. For ships, I recommend using the systems in CT Book<BR>&gt;5, High Guard and disregarding the T4 system altogether (this opinion may<BR>&gt;change).<BR><BR>Ship design is by a revised version of Fire, Fusion, and Steel, the <BR>Traveller Technical Architecture; this first appeared in TNE. The <BR>corrected version of the construction system in the core book may be <BR>found on the Archive page at BITS. But personally, I use High Guard.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; As for the task system: It's good, but unrealistic and uses several dice<BR>&gt;(I rate it 3 1/2 out of 5). It's good enough for me, though. I recommend<BR>&gt;using the system that I've heard is going to be used in T5 (you can find it<BR>&gt;in the BITS task system sheet in the archives section at<BR>&gt;http://www.bits.org)<BR><BR>That's http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>The T4.1 task system figures do not include the IHTIT rule ('It's <BR>Harder than I thought') which deals neatly with characters with high <BR>attributes and low skills. Summarised, this means if the number of <BR>dice you are going to throw exceeds the number of skill points, the <BR>task goes up two difficult levels. In other words, harder tasks <BR>become a lot harder for low skill/high attribute characters. ISTR <BR>that there were some mods to the JOT skill too, but my hard drive <BR>crash has lost everything back to January for me :-(<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Character generation is, dare I say, BETTER than CT, but there are fewer<BR>&gt;careers than when using Supp. 4. The upside of this is that careers in T4<BR>&gt;tend to overlap (Agent can be used for SolSec, for instance, and Rogue or<BR>&gt;Merchant for Pirates). I would have liked to see Belter and Bureaucrat or<BR>&gt;Diplomat (included, so I've heard, in T5 as the pseudo-career Functionary).<BR>&gt;PCs have more skills and higher skill levels, and the task system has been<BR>&gt;adjusted for this.<BR><BR>Bureaucrat and Diplomat are T4 Book 8, Pocket Empires.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Milieu: 0<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Set against the birth of the Third Impierium, Milieu: 0 is about mankind<BR>&gt;picking itself up after the Long Night. The concept is good, and it allows<BR>&gt;for scout campaigns, but the book itself is a disappointment. My biggest<BR>&gt;complaint is that the map of the Core sector doesn't match the rest of the<BR>&gt;books and is really only good for campaigns years after its founding rather<BR>&gt;than before. If you get this, go ahead and reroll the law levels of the<BR>&gt;worlds. A glitch in the computer caused it to be exactly the same as the<BR>&gt;government type.<BR><BR>The Core subsector map in the rulebook is wrong - the Core Sector map <BR>should be correct (spatially). Marc's corrected orrected First Survey <BR>data file was stored at the Missouri Archive last time I looked.<BR><BR>&gt;P.S. If you joined the TML to talk about Traveller, look elsewhere. I'm<BR>&gt;almost serious. Don't leave, though - there's some good stuff here!<BR><BR>I suspect that the discussion level of Traveller will actually <BR>increase when T5 is released. It was the case with T4. GT has brought <BR>a fair bit of new blood, but avoid discussions that begin 'if I use <BR>GURPS Handwavium equipment/technology I can do this which makes my <BR>Traveller stuff dead cool'. It tends to get short shrift.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:58:14 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>At 16:11 -0500 13/11/00,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;"Traveller 2300" became "2300 AD" and *neither* is related to Traveller<BR>&gt;except in that they are science fiction role playing games.<BR><BR>And both were published by GDW.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:04 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;000401c04db3$73f47820$230410ac@1ghz&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Thank you /tage &amp; Anthony... off to investigate.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:04 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;E5F33EAB0BD5D31196DA009027E03E55275537@crater.odetics.com&gt;<BR>Hail Eris<BR>All Hail Discordia<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:07:49 EST<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: For low-tech Striker: Whippet<BR><BR>Named after a type of dog, this is a British medium tank of WWI that was <BR>the fastest tank of its day.&nbsp; Even looks like a hotrod... <A <BR with Ratfink>Lewis guns?&gt;.&nbsp; Has two engines, one powering each track, thus keeping the <BR>driver busy.&nbsp; I suppose it could still spin in a circle if one engine gets<BR>knocked out.&nbsp; Crew would be wiser to bail out, in most circumstances.<BR><BR>It came out about one ton too heavy, (without minimum engine size, weight <BR>comes out pretty good).&nbsp; Interior seems impossibly roomy.&nbsp; Speed came out<BR>about right (13 kph for real vehicle).<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Whippet, Medium Tank Mark A&nbsp; TL-5<BR><BR>This vehicle has a crew of 3 (commander/gunner, gunner, driver).&nbsp; It is<BR>armed with four MMGs (one forward, one aft, one on each side) in fixed<BR>mounts.&nbsp; It has sufficient crew to fire only two MGs in any one turn.<BR>Length: 6.1 m.&nbsp; Width: 2.62 m.&nbsp; Height: 1.85m (+ 0.9m for superstructure).<BR>Total volume: 27.24 m^3.&nbsp; Weight: 15.35 tons.&nbsp; Cost: Cr 30,861.&nbsp; Cost &amp; <BR>weight include full load of ammunition.<BR><BR>Movement:&nbsp; Road speed: 15 kph/12.5 cm.&nbsp; Cross-country: 4.5 kph/3.75 cm<BR>Endurance: 5 hours.&nbsp; Ground pressure 2.42 tons / m ^2.<BR>Power/weight ratio: 4.3<BR><BR>Movement effects on fire: Move up to 1/2: -4 FFP, no fire EFP.&nbsp; Move over<BR>1/2: no fire. <BR><BR>Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Hull front: 6.&nbsp; Turret front, sides &amp; rear, hull sides<BR>&amp; rear 4.&nbsp; Deck: 1.&nbsp; Belly: 1.<BR><BR>Target size DMs: +2 low.&nbsp; +1 high.<BR><BR>Equipment: none.<BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>The four medium machineguns may engage 8 targets each.&nbsp; They have a signature<BR>of +2 and sufficient ammo for 17 phases of fire, each.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Effective&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR><BR>MMG&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 40(3)+4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 75(2)+3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 120(2)+1<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR>Design details:<BR><BR>Hull: 6.1 m long, 2.62 m wide, 1.85 m high.&nbsp; Hull volume = 29.566 m^3<BR><BR>Suspension: Tracked <BR>6.1 m long by 1.04 m wide.&nbsp; Weight: 6.344 tons.&nbsp; Volume: 6.344 m^3.&nbsp; <BR>Cr 15,860.&nbsp; Remaining volume: 23.216 m^3 <BR><BR>Configuration: Moderate front, vertical sides &amp; rear.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available volume = 20.894 m^3<BR><BR>Turret: 1.67 m long, 1.75 m wide, 0.9 m high.&nbsp; Turret volume = 2.63 m^3<BR>Configuration: vertical front, sides &amp; rear.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available turret volume 2.63 m^3<BR><BR>Hull Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Volume = 0.612 m^3&nbsp; Weight = 4.896 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cost = Cr 980&nbsp; Remaining volume = 20.282 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 1.4 cm thick (AV 6), 0.068 m^3<BR>Sides = 1.4 cm thick (AV 4), 0.316 m^3.<BR>Rear = 1.4 cm thick (AV 4), 0.068 m^3 <BR>Deck = 0.5 cm thick (AV 1), 0.08 m^3.<BR>Belly = 0.5 cm thick (AV 1), 0.08 m^3.<BR><BR>Turret Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Volume = 0.0863 m^3.&nbsp; Weight = 0.6904 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cost = Cr 139.&nbsp; Remaining Volume = 2.543 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 1.4 cm thick (AV 4), 0.0221 m^3.<BR>Sides = 1.4 cm thick (AV 4), 0.0421 m^3.<BR>Rear = 1.4 cm thick (AV 4), 0.0221 m^3.<BR><BR>* = in superstructure<BR><BR>Power Plant: 2 Internal combustion engines:<BR>Totals: 2 m^3.&nbsp; Output 0.067 MW.&nbsp; 2 tons.&nbsp; Cr 450. <BR>I gave the plants the Striker mandated minimum size, but the power<BR>output is as in the real vehicle, &amp; cost is based on this output.<BR><BR>Transmission (1 per track):<BR>Totals: 0.335 m^3.&nbsp; 0.335 tons.&nbsp; Cr 335.<BR><BR>Fuel: 305 liters of fuel for 5 hour endurance: 0.305 m^3, 0.305 tons <BR>Cr 77.&nbsp; Power Plant consumes 61 liters per hour.<BR><BR>Crew:<BR>1 Driver, seated in hull,&nbsp; Volume 2 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr100<BR>1 Commander/Gunner, standing in hull,&nbsp; Volume 2 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100<BR>1 m^3 of Commander/Gunner's position taken from superstructure*<BR>1 Gunner, standing in hull,&nbsp; Volume 2 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100<BR>1 m^3 of Gunner's position taken from superstructure*<BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>4 Medium Machineguns: 1 in front, 1 per side, 1 in rear, fixed mounts.<BR>No fire control or stabilization.<BR>Crew 1 per gun.<BR>Vehicle crew may only operate 2 guns per turn.<BR>Total volume: 0.038 m^3.&nbsp; Weight: 0.038 tons.&nbsp; Cr 6000*<BR>56 belts of ammo carried ( 14 per gun): 0.14 tons.&nbsp; 0.14 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 6720.<BR><BR>Waste Space in Hull: 11.502 m^3 &lt;pay no attention to that man behind<BR>the curtain&gt;<BR><BR>Waste Space in Superstructure: 0.505 m^3* <BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:41:57 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; The Regency<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Set around what would have been the year 1200, this setting depicts<BR>life<BR>&gt; after the devastation caused by a computer virus that crippled the<BR>warring<BR>&gt; factions and drove civilization back into the Spinward Marches and<BR>Deneb<BR>&gt; sectors. The main strongholds of mankind are the Regency and the<BR>Reformation<BR>&gt; Coalition, and the Zhodani Consulate.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't own this, but it sounds cool (I'm a<BR>&gt; pocket-empires-struggling-to-rebuild-civilization kind of guy).<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the milieu detailed for TNE.<BR><BR>Better to call it The New Era, as most of the setting is not The Regency<BR>(only 2 Regency supplements compared to 5-6 Reformation Coalition<BR>ones...)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:47:43 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>After having received a couple of comments from people asking after this<BR>quote, I must apologise for not correctly crediting the author, a couple of<BR>people have asked me if I wrote it myself!&nbsp; I could never write something so<BR>moving, the original verse is from 'For the Fallen' by Laurence Binyon<BR>(1869-1943). The full poem is here and is very moving.<BR>http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/customs_poems.htm#fallen<BR><BR>I guess I know it so well it never occurred to me that someone would think<BR>it was my own work.&nbsp; It is generally recited at remembrance services in the<BR>UK and most Commonwealth countries.&nbsp; It has certainly been recited at every<BR>Remembrance Sunday service I have attended or organised for the last 22<BR>years.&nbsp; I have also heard it at funereal of Forces personnel and other acts<BR>of Remembrance I have attended.<BR><BR>Someone has probably already answered this but remembrance Sunday is the<BR>closest Sunday to the 11th of November and is the day when in the<BR>Commonwealth, we remember the dead of the wars and pay homage to those who<BR>did not come back.<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:26:24 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Oaths (was&nbsp; Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt; Glenn M. Goffin said:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;I think a much better interpretation is that it allows people to defend<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;the Constitution from a government (foreign or domestic) that would<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;overthrow the Constitution.&nbsp; Hence, the preamble: "A well regulated<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State".&nbsp; Note that US<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;soldiers take an oath to defend the Constitution, not the government.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; US soldiers (and all other uniformed services), all civilian federal<BR>&gt;&nbsp; employees, federal judges -- even postal workers take an oath to defend and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; uphold the Constitution.<BR><BR>I took such an oath when employed as a part-time clerk for the IRS (after GDW <BR>but before SJ Games).<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:55:08 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Matt Bond [mailto:MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk]<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John Fox [mailto:jfox@verity.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello Everyone:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am new to the list (evedropping for two weeks).&nbsp; After<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; going thorugh several<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; web sites I noticed there are several different versions of<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Traveller floating<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; around.&nbsp; I am trying to figure out which books to get to<BR>&gt; &gt; get started.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between say Traveller 3ed and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; straight Traveller?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between Mega Traveller, Gurps<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; traveller and Traveller<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 2300?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the difference between etc etc etc?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lots more questions but that will be good for a start.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; John W. Fox<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip a brilliant summing up&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Darn it, Matt, you beat me to publication again! :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You going to Dragonmeet?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>I hope to be there, though it's annoying that it is on the Saturday<BR>*before* I get paid, rather than the one *after*...<BR><BR>If I have any money left I'm going...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:20:51<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>At 01:11 PM 11/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: RE: Book questions (longer than usual for me)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;massive snip&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;FNORD: Just something Steve Jackson made up. Doesn't mean anything. This is<BR>&gt;&gt;all true. Really. FNORD.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Come on now, give credit where credit is due.&nbsp; Steve Jackson did not<BR>&gt;come up with FNORD, it is from the _Illuminatus Trilogy_ by R.A. Wilson and<BR>&gt;Robert Shea. <BR><BR>The above statement is a lie.&nbsp; In fact, everything you read is a lie.<BR>Except for this sentence.&nbsp; The last sentence is a lie.&nbsp; fnord.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:22:56<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>At 11:04 PM 11/13/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Hail Eris<BR>&gt;All Hail Discordia<BR><BR>We thank you, Lady of Discord, for the Florida Elections Commission.&nbsp; Woken<BR>up more sleepers in one week than I would have imagined possible.&nbsp; People<BR>have actually begun reading the Constitution, questioning the process, and<BR>*thinking.*<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 21:21:21 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 01:11 PM 11/13/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Subject: RE: Book questions (longer than usual for me)<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&lt;massive snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;FNORD: Just something Steve Jackson made up. Doesn't mean anything. This is<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;all true. Really. FNORD.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Come on now, give credit where credit is due.&nbsp; Steve Jackson did not<BR>&gt; &gt;come up with FNORD, it is from the _Illuminatus Trilogy_ by R.A. Wilson and<BR>&gt; &gt;Robert Shea.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The above statement is a lie.&nbsp; In fact, everything you read is a lie.<BR>&gt; Except for this sentence.&nbsp; The last sentence is a lie.&nbsp; fnord.<BR><BR>Ah, but Aleister Crowley revealed The Truth in his seminal work _The<BR>Book of Lies._*<BR><BR>*The full title of which is:<BR><BR>The Book of Lies<BR>Which is Also Falsely Called<BR>Breaks<BR>The Wanderings or Falsifications<BR>Of the One Thought of<BR>Frater Perdurabo<BR>Which Thought is Itself<BR>Untrue<BR><BR>Burma Shave.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:08:58 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Tank Miniatures<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Can't remember if I replied to the miniatures thread, but I bought myself a<BR>couple of companies of these miniatures (tanks, APCs, support craft). Small<BR>scale, but whenI first saw them I thought they'd be ideal for _Striker_:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Future Wars(tm) - Tanks &amp; Heavy Combat Vehicles:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; http://www.geohex.com/fwar02.htm<BR><BR>This is a beautiful tank (the lines on mine are clean and clear, and the mini<BR>itself certainly looks business):<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Deimos/SO Heavy Tank with FWT11 Turret:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; http://www.geohex.com/vifwt12.htm<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:02:24 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Imperial Compromises<BR><BR>On 12 Nov 00, at 14:17, JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; OBTrav: How may big, fat, stinking political compromises (the kind that<BR>&gt; allow politics to go on at all, but look really stupid from the perspective of<BR>&gt; history) have gone into the form and workings of the modern Imperium?<BR><BR>Well the first (and one of the biggest) that I can think of is "The Imperium <BR>does not rule the worlds, only the space in between" (or to put it in other <BR>words "no interference in your local affairs"). Brilliant piece of real politik <BR>from Cleon. Basically it says to every government "Join and get all the <BR>benefits of interstellar trade/defence etc and we won't interfere in the way <BR>you run your affairs". I don't think the Imperium could have been founded as <BR>well as it did without this. Sure since M0 the concept has weakened <BR>somewhat, but its still there. It also allows the Imperium to wash its hands <BR>of any local nasties "Oh yes the Grand Phoobarite of Vermox is an <BR>Imperial world and it does put to death all left-handed albinos by having <BR>them eaten by giant mutant space fungi, but thats strictly a local matter. <BR>We can't intervene you know".<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:55:26 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/13/00 9:26:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; We thank you, Lady of Discord, for the Florida Elections Commission.&nbsp; Woken<BR>&gt;&nbsp; up more sleepers in one week than I would have imagined possible.&nbsp; People<BR>&gt;&nbsp; have actually begun reading the Constitution, questioning the process, and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; *thinking.*<BR><BR>Well, given the kind of commentary I've been seeing in all manner of<BR>public fora, I would question that last.&nbsp; But yes.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:43:07 -0500<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:57:29 +1300<BR>&gt; From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Any other styles people can think of?<BR><BR>Well I'vew got two exotic government types to toss out here.<BR><BR>First works something like this:<BR><BR>Instead of voting for your own districts representatives you vote<BR>to determine who will represent some completely different<BR>area completely. I call this the "Those Bastards" system, as in<BR>"Look who those bastards have saddled us with this time"<BR><BR>This might be more appropriate to an oligarchy type gov though.<BR><BR>Second is the Gilligocracy:<BR><BR>This isn't really a formal government type as a peculiar political<BR>situation. If the electorate is deeply divided into two or more<BR>equally powerfull factions a disinterested person or persons<BR>will become the defacto rulers of the polity by way of controlling<BR>the swing vote. Whenever this rare governing situation occurs<BR>the "Gilligan" will be approached by representatives of the other<BR>factions each offering some enticement for political support.<BR>Perhaps this enticement is a home cooked meal or the offer<BR>of sexual favors. Sometimes the appeal is to cameraderie.<BR>But frequently the bribe takes the form of cold hard cash.<BR><BR>I could go on but you've all seen the show so I won't bother.<BR><BR>David "Poster boy for the ideas of Neil Postman" Shayne<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3287<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3288</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>11/14/00 12:07:03 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, November 14 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3288<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Remembrance Sunday<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>RE: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>RE: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>RE: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR>RE: Gilligocracy(was&nbsp; Washington)<BR>RE: Book questions<BR>RE: Gilligocracy(was&nbsp; Washington)<BR>RE: World/System Generators?<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>RE: Book questions<BR>RE: Book questions<BR>RE: Backflow Preventers<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Washington<BR>Re: Book questions<BR>RE: Washington<BR>Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR>RE: Tank Miniatures<BR>RE: jack-of-all-trades question<BR>T4 Errata<BR>Re: T4 Errata<BR>Re: T4 Errata<BR>re: For low-tech Striker: Whippet<BR>Fanzine excerpt...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:02:20 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Bond<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 5:53 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 8:36 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; On 11/12/00 at 01:21 PM,&nbsp; "Peter Scarrott"<BR>&gt; &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt; said:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old; Age shall<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;not weary them, nor the years condemn.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;At the going down of the sun and in the morning<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;We will remember them.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Is Remembrance Sunday the British equivalent of Veteran's Day in the<BR>&gt; &gt; US...celebrated on the anniversary of the armistice ending WWI?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Eris<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes, it is<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Matt<BR>&gt; <BR>In Australia this poem is traditionally recited on Anzac day, 25 April. <BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:16:04 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>Trevor, Peter wrote :<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; G-Ow-ss ... rhymes with house<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; G-Ow-z&nbsp; ... rhymes with dowse<BR><BR>Where I come from dowse ryhmes with house<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:34:32 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Come on now, give credit where credit is due.&nbsp; Steve Jackson did not<BR>&gt; come up with FNORD, it is from the _Illuminatus Trilogy_ by R.A. Wilson and<BR>&gt; Robert Shea.&nbsp; SJGames picked up the term when they adapted some of the<BR>&gt; ideas/background of the books into their game Illuminati.&nbsp; (I once<BR><BR>This is just what you have been _led_ to believe. FNORD.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:41:08 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Rodney Basler [mailto:rgb@odetics.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 13 November 2000 21:11<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: FNORD (was: RE: Book questions)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: Book questions (longer than usual for me)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;massive snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;FNORD: Just something Steve Jackson made up. Doesn't mean <BR>&gt; anything. This is<BR>&gt; &gt;all true. Really. FNORD.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Come on now, give credit where credit is due.&nbsp; Steve <BR>&gt; Jackson did not<BR>&gt; come up with FNORD, it is from the _Illuminatus Trilogy_ by <BR>&gt; R.A. Wilson and<BR>&gt; Robert Shea.&nbsp; SJGames picked up the term when they adapted some of the<BR>&gt; ideas/background of the books into their game Illuminati.&nbsp; (I once<BR>&gt; recommended the books to a friend, who was quickly hooked and <BR>&gt; read them<BR>&gt; compulsively from cover to cover...and probably never forgave <BR>&gt; me for it.<BR>&gt; :o)&nbsp; They give a whole new meaning to the term "Mind F**k".)&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Anyone who<BR>&gt; does not know what FNORD means can contact me off-list - or <BR>&gt; better yet, just<BR>&gt; read the books.<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ewige Blummenkraft!<BR><BR>Yeah, I know. You'll notice the excessive claims that it really was true<BR>that SJ invented it. I was lying. Ear-wicker Blumencraft! ;)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:48:15 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The above statement is a lie.&nbsp; In fact, everything you read is a lie.<BR>&gt; Except for this sentence.&nbsp; The last sentence is a lie.&nbsp; fnord.<BR>&gt; -- <BR><BR>The above statement is half true, half false, and half meaningless. It is<BR>also half true and false, half true and meaningless, and half false and<BR>meaningless. It is also half true and false and meaningless. Finally, it is<BR>half untrue, not false, and meaningful. As is this statement. Add up the<BR>halves. Divide by the number of statements (2). What number do you have?<BR>FNORD<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:59:18 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller Adventure Ideas<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; She's lucky. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Stowing away on a spaceship/starship is apt to be *quickly* fatal. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The passenger spaces are occupied, and not a place you can really<BR>&gt; "hide" easily. The engineering spaces tend to be occupied by crew,<BR>&gt; dangerous, or both. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That leaves the cargo spaces. And unless you are hauling live cargo,<BR>&gt; there are good reasons to have them either a vacuum, or at <BR>&gt; least with a<BR>&gt; pure nitrogen atmosphere (tends to kill vermin, and prevents fires). <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>That's why I chose a Drak vessel. Since they regularly conduct hunts aboard<BR>their vessels the ships are way bigger than they need to be, the corridors<BR>are full of switch-backs and hidey-holes. Basically, the ships are designed<BR>to have critters running loose all over the place. Also, the Drak kill the<BR>vermin themselves while in the Stalking :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:25:25 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gilligocracy(was&nbsp; Washington)<BR><BR>&gt; Second is the Gilligocracy:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This isn't really a formal government type as a peculiar political<BR>&gt; situation. If the electorate is deeply divided into two or more<BR>&gt; equally powerfull factions a disinterested person or persons<BR>&gt; will become the defacto rulers of the polity by way of controlling<BR>&gt; the swing vote. Whenever this rare governing situation occurs<BR>&gt; the "Gilligan" will be approached by representatives of the other<BR>&gt; factions each offering some enticement for political support.<BR>&gt; Perhaps this enticement is a home cooked meal or the offer<BR>&gt; of sexual favors. Sometimes the appeal is to cameraderie.<BR>&gt; But frequently the bribe takes the form of cold hard cash.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I could go on but you've all seen the show so I won't bother.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Us Limey's haven't, as Gilligan's Island never played over here, but I've<BR>picked up enough pop culture referances to work out the rough background of<BR>the show. Quick: name this recent referance to Gilligan's:<BR><BR>'Those poor people.'<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:26:15 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Book questions<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;snip a brilliant summing up&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Darn it, Matt, you beat me to publication again! :)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; You going to Dragonmeet?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Dean<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I hope to be there, though it's annoying that it is on the Saturday<BR>&gt; *before* I get paid, rather than the one *after*...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If I have any money left I'm going...<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Tell me about it, going to a con and not spending tonnes of cash? Heresy! :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:41:59 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gilligocracy(was&nbsp; Washington)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; Us Limey's haven't, as Gilligan's Island never played over here, but I've<BR>&gt; picked up enough pop culture referances to work out the rough background<BR>of<BR>&gt; the show. Quick: name this recent referance to Gilligan's:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 'Those poor people.'<BR><BR>Galaxy Quest<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:14:03 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>Paul Drye wrote:<BR>&gt; To the extent that what I laughably call my file system can<BR>&gt; help, I'll send you what I've got with regards to planetary<BR>&gt; system generation. I think I've ferreted out and bookmarked<BR>&gt; most everything worthwhile on the web, both game-specific and<BR>&gt; real-world science. Tyge Sjstrand's system, the one that Peter<BR>&gt; recommended at:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; is awfully good. I've been relying on it for a while as a "one<BR>&gt; stop shop" for the necessary hard-core formulas.<BR><BR>If you have't checked it recently it was a major update a&nbsp; couple<BR>of days ago.&nbsp; There will be a second (minor) update to&nbsp; the&nbsp; HTML<BR>version by the end of the week.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:22:58 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; Trevor, Peter wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; G-Ow-ss ... rhymes with house<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; G-Ow-z&nbsp; ... rhymes with dowse<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Where I come from dowse ryhmes with house<BR>&gt; &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Well ... well ... Fudge it then!&nbsp; If you guys ain't&nbsp; gonna&nbsp; learn<BR>how to speak proper-like then I ain't gonna bother.&nbsp; :-P<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:24:46 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Trevor, Peter wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; G-Ow-ss ... rhymes with house<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; G-Ow-z&nbsp; ... rhymes with dowse<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Where I come from dowse ryhmes with house<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;grin&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well ... well ... Fudge it then!&nbsp; If you guys ain't&nbsp; gonna&nbsp; learn<BR>&gt; how to speak proper-like then I ain't gonna bother.&nbsp; :-P<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I actually encountered this yesterday watching Andromeda...the guy in the<BR>hawaiian shirt refered to 'G-ow-ss' weaponry :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 06:47:30 EST<BR>From: RBasler1@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/13/00 10:06:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/13/00 9:26:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; We thank you, Lady of Discord, for the Florida Elections Commission.&nbsp; Woken<BR>&gt;&nbsp; up more sleepers in one week than I would have imagined possible.&nbsp; People<BR>&gt;&nbsp; have actually begun reading the Constitution, questioning the process, and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; *thinking.*<BR><BR>Well, given the kind of commentary I've been seeing in all manner of<BR>public fora, I would question that last.&nbsp; But yes.<BR>&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; When I read this, it was 0330 in the morning (I'm _still_ waking up at <BR>odd hours, my body must like GMT for some strange reason).&nbsp; Being a little <BR>bleary, my brain read "public FLORA"....I thought:&nbsp; "Amusing metaphor, I <BR>guess most of them _are_ vegetables"&nbsp;&nbsp; :o)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:36:12 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Book questions<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; Tell me about it, going to a con and not spending tonnes of <BR>&gt; cash? Heresy! :)<BR><BR>The trick is not "spending tonnes of cash", its "spending&nbsp; tonnes<BR>of cash on games".&nbsp; GenconUK 2K cost me a small forture and all I<BR>got was Ring Of Fire and the&nbsp; Traveller&nbsp; Bibliography.&nbsp; (Although<BR>part of that due to the poor Traders' Hall this year ... a&nbsp; dozen<BR>stalls all with an identical product range.)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:56:44 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Book questions<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Tell me about it, going to a con and not spending tonnes of <BR>&gt; &gt; cash? Heresy! :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The trick is not "spending tonnes of cash", its "spending&nbsp; tonnes<BR>&gt; of cash on games".&nbsp; GenconUK 2K cost me a small forture and all I<BR>&gt; got was Ring Of Fire and the&nbsp; Traveller&nbsp; Bibliography.&nbsp; (Although<BR>&gt; part of that due to the poor Traders' Hall this year ... a&nbsp; dozen<BR>&gt; stalls all with an identical product range.)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Agreed. It is a trick I hope to pick up quickly...Dragonmeet's going to be<BR>my first Con.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:00:09 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Backflow Preventers<BR><BR>Rod Basler wrote:<BR>&gt; ObTrav - It should be pretty hard to get the something into the<BR>&gt; wrong lines in a starship's engineering or life support systems<BR>&gt; by accident, and equally hard to get them in by design. (Stories <BR>&gt; notwithstanding of the guy who tried to steal some gas from a<BR>&gt; recreational vehicle via siphoning by mouth...and dunked his<BR>&gt; tube into the sewage holding tank rather than the gastank)<BR><BR>Wasn't there an Amber Zone adventure in&nbsp; Challenge&nbsp; magazine&nbsp; ...<BR>"Wrong Way Valve"?&nbsp; The PCs&nbsp; are&nbsp; wilderness&nbsp; refueling&nbsp; from&nbsp; an<BR>ocean and inadvertantly flood a stateroom (or something).<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:44:40 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>&gt; I actually encountered this yesterday watching Andromeda...the<BR>&gt; guy in the hawaiian shirt refered to 'G-ow-ss' weaponry :)<BR><BR>I don't get good reception where I am (no cable, satellite, or On<BR>Digital, and terrestrial is sometimes iffy) so most of the&nbsp; TV&nbsp; I<BR>watch is on store-bought&nbsp; video/DVD&nbsp; (I&nbsp; now&nbsp; have&nbsp; 1200).&nbsp; So&nbsp; I<BR>haven't seen Andromeda.&nbsp; Is it worth buying when it comes out?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:17:58 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/12/00 11:43:54 PM Mountain Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; How can a type 4 (representative democracy) be organised<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Presidential (US) style system<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Parlimentary (UK) style system<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Parlimentary (German) style system<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Any other styles people can think of?<BR><BR>What do you call it when the government alternates between type 4 and type A <BR>at irregular intervals?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 01:24:35 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Washington<BR><BR>On 14 Nov 00, at 7:17, TOCoons@cs.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; What do you call it when the government alternates between type 4 and type A<BR>&gt; at irregular intervals?<BR><BR>France? &lt;g,d,r&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:43:53 +0100<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions<BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;000401c04db3$73f47820$230410ac@1ghz&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thank you /tage &amp; Anthony... off to investigate.<BR><BR>hehe, hee-hee. no matter how you pronounce that spelling of my name, that is<BR>the weirdest way anyone ever pronounced it. [toe'guh] is bumped to second<BR>place ;-)<BR><BR>regards,<BR><BR>Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:59:05 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Washington<BR><BR>TOCoons@cs.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; How can a type 4 (representative democracy) be organised<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Presidential (US) style system<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Parlimentary (UK) style system<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Parlimentary (German) style system<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Any other styles people can think of?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What do you call it when the government alternates between <BR>&gt; type 4 and type A at irregular intervals?<BR><BR>In all this talk of different types of Type 4 government I&nbsp; think<BR>people have lost sight of&nbsp; the&nbsp; fact&nbsp; that&nbsp; Traveller&nbsp; government<BR>codes refer to the style of interaction visitors can expect&nbsp; (and<BR>not necessarily the actual government&nbsp; structure).&nbsp; This&nbsp; is&nbsp; why<BR>certain government types like communism are *apparently* missing.<BR>And according to Marc Miller's&nbsp; own&nbsp; articles&nbsp; the&nbsp; US&nbsp; has&nbsp; been<BR>classified as 3 different types at differnt times.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:15:17 +0000<BR>From: Phil Kitching &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR><BR>"James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;snip up to T4 careers&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Merchant for Pirates). I would have liked to see Belter and Bureaucrat or <BR>&gt;Diplomat (included, so I've heard, in T5 as the pseudo-career Functionary). <BR><BR>IIRC<BR><BR>Diplomat and Bureaucrat careers are in T4 Pocket Empires.<BR><BR>Phil Kitching<BR>- --<BR>&nbsp; http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>&nbsp; Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:14:38 -0600<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Tank Miniatures<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Can't remember if I replied to the miniatures thread, but I <BR>&gt; bought myself a<BR>&gt; couple of companies of these miniatures (tanks, APCs, support <BR>&gt; craft). Small<BR>&gt; scale, but whenI first saw them I thought they'd be ideal for <BR>&gt; _Striker_:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Future Wars(tm) - Tanks &amp; Heavy Combat Vehicles:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.geohex.com/fwar02.htm<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is a beautiful tank (the lines on mine are clean and <BR>&gt; clear, and the mini<BR>&gt; itself certainly looks business):<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Deimos/SO Heavy Tank with FWT11 Turret:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.geohex.com/vifwt12.htm<BR><BR><BR>That they are! I've also picked some vehicles from their<BR>25mm line for use with my I'renes and Zhos and they<BR>look incredible! Them and my 25mm-scaled starport<BR>buildings.<BR><BR>Pity the 25mm range requires quite a bit of floor space.<BR><BR>Loren, has there been any news on Traveller minis from<BR>SJG?<BR><BR>David Smart<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:54:53 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR>When I ran MT, I had the charactors make a diff JOT roll - If they made it,<BR>they had the skill at 0 as it applyed to their current predicimant. (IE,<BR>JOTer is trying to land a starship - makes JOT roll. This does not mean that<BR>they remember how to start a jump - that would be anthoer roll). Infact, I<BR>made them roll each time they tryed to use the skill.<BR><BR>IIRC that I used that in classic also..<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 3:17 PM<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: jack-of-all-trades question<BR><BR><BR><BR>Fred Ramen wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;How do other people on the list treat this question?<BR><BR>I give characters three skill-0 levels in skills of their choice per level<BR>of JOT skill (you may want to make PCs come up with background history<BR>to justify their choices -- especially if a bureaucrat wants heavy weapons-0<BR>skill -- or even forbid them).&nbsp; Also, if you use an expanded list of skills<BR>(like in MT), you may want to give four level-0 skills per level of JOT.<BR>PCs must choose what skills they are familiar in at (really, after) chargen.<BR><BR>This system rewards players for getting JOT-2+, while preserving the skill-0<BR>maximum limit.&nbsp; The higher the JOT level, the more flexible the PC.<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:14:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: John Fox &lt;jfox@verity.com&gt;<BR>Subject: T4 Errata<BR><BR>Hello Everyone:<BR><BR>&nbsp; Thanks for the feedback on the books of Traveller.<BR>&nbsp; I picked up a copy of T4 on ebay.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Question:&nbsp; Where can I find the errata for this book?<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Several people had said that there is one out there on the net.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Thanks<BR>&nbsp; John W. Fox<BR>&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:57:18 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR><BR>&gt;Hello Everyone:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks for the feedback on the books of Traveller.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I picked up a copy of T4 on ebay.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Question:&nbsp; Where can I find the errata for this book?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Several people had said that there is one out there on the net.<BR><BR>It's at http://www.imperiumgames.com/errata/t4.html<BR><BR>If you would like, please contact me off-list and I'll email you a list of <BR>fixes for T4. (I'll send it in .rtf format unless otherwise noted).<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:10:09 EST<BR>From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR><BR>I've been looking for errata for First Survey. Several people on the list <BR>have mentioned that the book is FULL of mistakes...<BR><BR>Any hints on back dating the CT stats for the systems?<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:57:16 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: For low-tech Striker: Whippet<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR><BR>The Whippet floats, or so it appears.&nbsp; Maybe it should have auxiliary water<BR>propulsion.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:01:53 -0700<BR>From: "J. Paul Sanders" &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Fanzine excerpt...<BR><BR>This is an excerpt from "Quasits &amp; Quasars" #6 - an early 80's British<BR>fanzine...<BR><BR>***<BR><BR>A Day in the Life of a Traveller<BR><BR>by Neil Hopkins and David Hulks<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Quag Starhopper (ex-other) awoke to the sound of alarm bleepers. He waited<BR>patiently while his valet droids dressed him in his battledress and then<BR>punched his way through the bulkhead to the computer room. He proceeded to<BR>scale the north face of the terminal to reach the keyboard-- he tried to<BR>convince himself that the manufacturers weren't lying when they had said<BR>that this was the smallest model available.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "Computer - what's wrong?"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "Misjump."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Damn. That meant the referee was running a Judges Guild scenario-after<BR>all, he had had the drives serviced only five years ago. After letting the<BR>computer (Eddy by name of course) park the ship plans in a parking orbit,<BR>he was worried to see the ref produce a geodesic hex map - 'This means I'm<BR>meant to look for something', he thought, remembering Twilight's Peak. Okay<BR>- - start searching the starport.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A deathly hush fell over the Travellers Aid Society bar as Quag strolled<BR>in, closely followed by his robotrolly with its selection of scare guns and<BR>ammunition. (At this point it should, perhaps, be noted, for the sake of<BR>all the One True Way followers, that the Travellers Aid Society is an<BR>organization that colours-in stars so that travellers can go straight to<BR>the juicy places without having to mess about on boring, green planets.) He<BR>selected an FGMP-15 and ambled over to the glowing remains of the bar.<BR>Pinned to the rumour board was a screwedup chocolate wrapper - he had<BR>accidentally strayed into a horrifically complicated GDW scenario. He knew<BR>that there had to be at least fifteen pages on this one item alone. There<BR>was nothing for it but to head for the location on the map on the wrapper<BR>marked with an 'X' and labelled "Mysterious Alien Base, #1".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; He stepped into his ATV (modified with meson gun spinal mount) and drove<BR>off in direction B-- it would work out quicker if he went across the polar<BR>cap. From a forest, a primitive barbarian looked out at the speeding ATV.<BR>'Oh, the wonders of modern technology,' he thought, It's taken me nine<BR>months to cover just one hex in my campaign.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Qlag checked the chocolate wrapper. The Alien base should be just over the<BR>next hex-side. And sure enough, there it was, glowing in the twin sunset.<BR>Suddenly, without warning, hordes of ravening aliens poured out of the<BR>base. Quag broadcast a general order to his mercenary battalion 'Murphy's<BR>Mutilators' - "Don't shoot until you see the toggle on their zippers." Bad<BR>luck this, because in a recent 'good-old-times' revival cult, the aliens<BR>had gone back to the use of buttons, and so the Mutilators were soon<BR>massacred. The remaining aliens then turned upon the ATV with cries of<BR>"Infidel dogs"-- well, more like "Bloopcriddle-whopsi scuffelentrine<BR>morkanbleep, bleep-bleep" actually; but apparently "Infidel dogs" was the<BR>gist of what they were attempting to communicate.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 'Never send a Murphy to do a man's job', thought quag as he zipped up his<BR>visor.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; One round and nine clones later, Quag emerged from a steaming pile of<BR>bloody alien flesh and scales. He walked over to the iris valve in the side<BR>of the white dome. The interior was a maze of corridors, and it took quite<BR>a long time before he found the mad super-computer that was, of course, the<BR>root of all the trouble.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; He eventially emerged from the dome carrying a fortune in crystals in his<BR>arms. Several flattened intermittant scavenger encounters later, he was<BR>back in his cryogenic slumber-tube dreaming of making a fortune in<BR>alienburgers.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3288<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb04.mx.aol.com (rly-yb04.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.4]) by air-yb02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:07:03 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:06:35 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA89303;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:59:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:58:15 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA88997<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:58:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:58:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011141958.OAA88997@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3288<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3289</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, November 14 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3289<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: FNORD <BR>RE: Electoral College<BR>RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3288<BR>Re: GT Cutter<BR>Re: Book Reviews (Re: to Mexal's post)<BR>Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>Re: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR>What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR>For low-tech Striker: K-Wagen<BR>RE: Andromdea [Was RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds]<BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: Whippet<BR>Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:38:48 -0800<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: FNORD <BR><BR>&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: FNORD (was:&nbsp; RE: Book questions)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; The above statement is a lie.&nbsp; In fact, everything you read is a lie.<BR>&gt;&gt; Except for this sentence.&nbsp; The last sentence is a lie.&nbsp; fnord.<BR>&gt;&gt; -- <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The above statement is half true, half false, and half meaningless. It is<BR>&gt;also half true and false, half true and meaningless, and half false and<BR>&gt;meaningless. It is also half true and false and meaningless. Finally, it is<BR>&gt;half untrue, not false, and meaningful. As is this statement. Add up the<BR>&gt;halves. Divide by the number of statements (2). What number do you have?<BR>&gt;FNORD<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Ummm....&nbsp; 23 ?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler - COFIT<BR>- --------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - Don't blame them, they had no idea what they were in for when<BR>they hired me.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:22:43 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Electoral College<BR><BR>One slight correction. The constitution of the United States does not<BR>require that Electors be chosen by election, only that they be selected by<BR>the states, using whatever method the state chooses.&nbsp; It is true that all of<BR>the states have always chosen to select Electors via the ballot, but this is<BR>not required by the constitution. Indeed all states but one use winner take<BR>all schemes in which the person with the most votes gets all of the<BR>Electors. This is also not required and Maine chooses their Electors by<BR>congressional district (just like their congressmen.)<BR><BR>It should be remembered that initially senators were not selected by<BR>election, but rather were appointed by the states.<BR><BR>Obtrav: Not much. Importance to gaming? Quite a bit. In a parallel world<BR>campaign (like Sliders campaign or a GURPS CrossTime game) you could start<BR>with the same constitution and end up with a totally different U.S.<BR>government. My ideas are so plentiful that rather than presenting it here<BR>(Where it's totally OT), I think I'll write it up for Pyramid.<BR><BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 10:32 AM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Electoral College<BR><BR>Matthew Bond writes:<BR><BR>&gt; As an interested outsider, what is it with this Electoral College<BR>&gt;&nbsp; system? I can see how it would have been useful in the early days, given<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the travel times involved, to have the local state decide how they were<BR>&gt;&nbsp; going to vote and then send instructions to their Electoral College<BR>&gt;&nbsp; members for the formal vote to appoint the president, but why do all the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; electoral votes for a state have to go to only the one candidate?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Wouldn't a proportional system be a better reflection of the wishes of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the electorate? That way, in the current situation, Florida's 25(?)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; votes could be split 13/12. I don't know which way the result would go<BR>&gt;&nbsp; if this was applied to all the state votes, but it would make the whole<BR>&gt;&nbsp; thing seem more equitable...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The way it was supposed to work was that the people would not vote for<BR>the president directly, but instead would vote for electors who would then<BR>each vote his independent judgement for two people qualified toi be<BR>President. The top vote-getter would be President, and the second would be<BR>Vice-President. The system worked for Washington (every elector voted for<BR>George Washington as one of the two choices both times he was elected) and<BR>it<BR>worked for his successor John Adams.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; However, by the time of the fourth election in 1800, political parties<BR>had formed and each of the electors voted for the candidates of his party.<BR>This meant that Thomas Jefferson and his running mate Aaron Burr both got<BR>equal numbers of votes, and the election went into the House of<BR>Representatives, which was deadlocked for dozens of rounds of voting while<BR>the opposition tried to elect Burr over Jefferson. The Constitution was<BR>promptly amended to require separate ballots for President and<BR>Vice-President.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ever since then the practice has been for each party to presents a<BR>slate<BR>of electors in each state who are loyal party members, pledged to vote for<BR>the party's candidates for president and Vice President.&nbsp; So, a vote for the<BR>Republican or Democratic candidate is really a vote for the Republican or<BR>Democratic party's slate of electors. Some states have language to this<BR>effect on the ballot.&nbsp; In nearly all states, the party gaining the most<BR>votes<BR>gets all the electors for that state.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; One way to change the system would be an amendment to the Constitution,<BR>which requires 2/3 of each house of Congress (or 2/3 of the states) to<BR>propose and 3/4 of the states to approve. People have been trying to abolish<BR>the electoral college and allow direct election of the President for most of<BR>the past two centuriess, but haven't yet gathered the overwhelming majority<BR>support they would need.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The other would be for states to adopt the system of choosing electors<BR>by<BR>congressional district.&nbsp; However, since the winner-take all policy favors<BR>the<BR>majority party, it would be exceptional to find any majority party willing<BR>to<BR>sacrifice this benefit.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If no one person gains a majority of the electoral votes cast, the<BR>House of Representatives must choose from the three candidates who received<BR>the most electoral votes. In that case, the vote is taken by states, not<BR>individual representatives. Presumably whichever candidate is supported by<BR>the majority of&nbsp; the state's congressional delegation would get that state's<BR>vote.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; In this case, the process can't be allowed to drag on indefinitely.<BR>Whatever lawsuits and injunctions may be filed, Florida election officials<BR>need to be ready to certify the votes of its electors on Dec 18.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:04:42 -0600<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3288<BR><BR>Qstor@aol.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've been looking for errata for First Survey. Several people <BR>&gt; on the list <BR>&gt; have mentioned that the book is FULL of mistakes...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Any hints on back dating the CT stats for the systems?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mike<BR><BR>Actually the best source for T4 errata is at:<BR>http://traveller.mu.org/errata/<BR><BR>I hosted an errata-finding contest on the TML when T4 was first<BR>published and the results on at the above site. There are a couple<BR>of other T4 errata lists at this site but I believe the contest<BR>results were the most comprehensive (it's *amazing* how good TML<BR>members are at finding errata).<BR><BR>David Smart<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:43:54 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Cutter<BR><BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; As a loyal subscriber to Pyramid I was eagerly waiting for the GT:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Modular Cutters playtest, when to my dismay I noticed that the GURPS<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Traveller books page at the Steve Jackson Games website listed it as<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; "at the printers." While I'm aware that a specialist book like this<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; one doesn't need a *lot* of playtesting, surely it deserves *some*.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Did I miss it, or was it all done in-house?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It had no formal playtest, but the modules went through several internal and <BR>&gt;semi-external wringers.<BR><BR>And, IIRC, most of the semi-external part was discussions on JTAS (primarily related to: just how does a cutter and it's module stick together?).<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:09:35 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book Reviews (Re: to Mexal's post)<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Pot-boiler romance...yeah, but as a sub-plot woven through other<BR>&gt; plots it was a lot of fun.&nbsp; Hum, it's about time for me to do that<BR>&gt; again.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Evil EVIL GM, Eris!!<BR><BR>For wider edification, Eris is saying this JUST as our PC's are readying<BR>for our very _first_ jump in the repaired 'Mae Lee', with a half dozen<BR>paying passengers on board. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:37:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Ooops! It was late. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; It's not possible to focus light to a higher *intensity* than the<BR>&gt;&gt; source. So your little image of the sun, can't be more than 6000<BR>&gt;&gt; degrees. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Assuming your light comes from a blackbody emitter, yes.&nbsp; That doesn't apply<BR>&gt; to lasers.<BR><BR>"Focusing" essentially creates an *image* of the source. And the<BR>geometry of optics means that the image can have a higher radiant flux<BR>than the original.<BR><BR>I don't think it's possible to treat a laser beam as a perfectly<BR>collimated source, which *would* let you get higher intensities.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:42:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I recall a bit of plumbing "trivia" I came across. There's a rule about<BR>&gt;&gt;how long the hose on handheld showers can be. Why? Because of incident<BR>&gt;&gt;where folks were using them in a bathtub, dropped them in the water and<BR>&gt;&gt;got out of the tub. Which, inder the wrong conditions can cause the<BR>&gt;&gt;hose to act like a siphon, sucking dirty water into the supply lines.<BR>&gt;&gt;EWWWW!!!! <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kind of late to be responding to this, but I've been sick with the<BR>&gt; flu since Wednesday (survived the floods in southern England, only to<BR>&gt; succumb to a virus).&nbsp; In my old job, I used to test plumbing products, so<BR>&gt; had to read those standards way too many times.&nbsp; There are actually a wide<BR>&gt; variety of requirements and tricks to prevent 'backflow' - things like<BR>&gt; hidden check valves, air gaps, vacuum breakers, and so on.&nbsp; Most are very<BR>&gt; hard to get at or to disable.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav - It should be pretty hard to get the something into the<BR>&gt; wrong lines in a starship's engineering or life support systems by accident,<BR>&gt; and equally hard to get them in by design. (Stories notwithstanding of the<BR>&gt; guy who tried to steal some gas from a recreational vehicle via siphoning by<BR>&gt; mouth...and dunked his tube into the sewage holding tank rather than the<BR>&gt; gastank)<BR><BR>I have this vision of a toilet in use when something opens the "drain<BR>line" to vacuum. &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:49:28 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Have you tried 'Accrete?' This is a program that simulates star system<BR>&gt;&gt;formation using (fairly) up-to-date Planetographic (sic) theories.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm, I like the amount of detail on this one, but it *still* doesn't let you <BR>&gt; input the luminosity of the central star yourself. Waaah! I think I know <BR>&gt; what I'm asking for Christmas.<BR><BR>As I recall it lets you input the mass of the star. That *determines*<BR>the luminosity. Which, btw, is *different* at different ages. <BR><BR>Since Accrete stars with the gas cloud condensing, the star goes thru a<BR>*wide* range of luminosity before it reaches the main sequence.<BR><BR>The actual variables for describing a star are mass and age. Those<BR>*determine* size and luminosity. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:18:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Some Qs about energy weapons (semi-realistic)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt; "Focusing" essentially creates an *image* of the source. And the<BR>&gt; geometry of optics means that the image can have a higher radiant flux<BR>&gt; than the original.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't think it's possible to treat a laser beam as a perfectly<BR>&gt; collimated source, which *would* let you get higher intensities.<BR><BR>Considering that laser fusion devices can focus down to micrometers and can<BR>achieve temperatures in the tens of millions of degrees, I'd say that a laser<BR>beam probably can be treated as such a source.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:19:14 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>I've been lurking for a day and am saddened and disappointed. Where <BR>is your *vim*? You can't seriously be all enthralled with the <BR>melodramatics of some tinpot pre-stellar-tech type-4 government, can <BR>you?&nbsp; This is simply intolerable.&nbsp; I have no choice but to return in <BR>person and drag the TML, kicking and screaming, back to the glorious <BR>past heights of FF&amp;S abuse, songwriting, and lurid IMTU true <BR>confessions that made this the BEST DAMN MAILING LIST IN THE KNOWN <BR>UNIVERSE.&nbsp; (hoo-yah!)<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz&nbsp;&nbsp; 0601&nbsp; C138044-8 S as-- dr+ hi+ sa++ zh+ vi+ da-- 732<BR>tc+ tm+ tt+ tg- tn ru ge 3i c+ jt- au- st- ls- pi ta- he+(-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:33 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>&gt;As I recall it lets you input the mass of the star. That *determines*<BR>&gt;the luminosity. Which, btw, is *different* at different ages.<BR><BR>This particular implementation of Accrete takes no input at all, unless I'm <BR>missing something. There were two other implementations available at the <BR>same website, but they're not accepting luminosity either.<BR><BR>There's a more fundamental problem with the version of Accrete I was pointed <BR>to, unforunately. It's not very random, and I was getting duplicate systems <BR>after a couple of dozen runs.<BR><BR>&gt;Since Accrete stars with the gas cloud condensing, the star goes thru a<BR>&gt;*wide* range of luminosity before it reaches the main sequence.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The actual variables for describing a star are mass and age. Those<BR>&gt;*determine* size and luminosity.<BR><BR>Yes, but neither mass or (especially) age are readily available for real <BR>stars, which is what I'm working with. Current luminosity is the best thing <BR>I have.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:31:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I've been lurking for a day and am saddened and disappointed. Where <BR>&gt; is your *vim*? You can't seriously be all enthralled with the <BR>&gt; melodramatics of some tinpot pre-stellar-tech type-4 government, can <BR>&gt; you?&nbsp; This is simply intolerable.&nbsp; I have no choice but to return in <BR>&gt; person and drag the TML, kicking and screaming, back to the glorious <BR>&gt; past heights of FF&amp;S abuse, songwriting, and lurid IMTU true <BR>&gt; confessions that made this the BEST DAMN MAILING LIST IN THE KNOWN <BR>&gt; UNIVERSE.&nbsp; (hoo-yah!)<BR>&gt; <BR>YAY!!!!!<BR><BR>Kenji's back!!!!<BR><BR>YA-TTTAH!&nbsp; hoohah!&nbsp; yokatta!<BR><BR>&gt; Kenji Schwarz&nbsp;&nbsp; 0601&nbsp; C138044-8 S as-- dr+ hi+ sa++ zh+ vi+ da-- 732<BR>&gt; tc+ tm+ tt+ tg- tn ru ge 3i c+ jt- au- st- ls- pi ta- he+(-)<BR><BR>BTW, exactly when was it you were planning to head back out to the Bay<BR>Area?&nbsp; A couple of us had it in mind to do some Really Evil Things to you<BR>when you do.&nbsp; bwahahahahahah.<BR><BR>::evil high pitched anime laugh::<BR><BR>kirichan ^_^ yori<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:31:16 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR><BR>&gt;I have this vision of a toilet in use when something opens the "drain<BR>&gt;line" to vacuum. &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>"Sir! Target has fired some sandcasters!"<BR><BR>"Those aren't sandcasters, lieutenant...."<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:41:56 EST<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: For low-tech Striker: K-Wagen<BR><BR>Before there wasn't a Maus, before there wasn't an E-100, there wasn't...<BR><BR>THE K-WAGEN! &lt;Eww, grosse!&gt;<BR><BR>WWI German project for a super-heavy tank.&nbsp; A slightly mobile steel pillbox<BR>armed with four 7.7 cm howitzers and better than a half-dozen MGs.&nbsp; Crew of<BR>22.&nbsp; Over 100 tons of fun.&nbsp; Please drive responsibly.&nbsp; Only two incomplete<BR>prototypes were actually built.<BR><BR>I decided to give the front &amp; rear hull surfaces a moderate slope (they are<BR>actually rounded).&nbsp; Some dimensions estimated from photos of incomplete veh-<BR>icles and drawings of vehicle as it would have appeared if completed (so <BR>they are probably off the actual figures a bit).&nbsp; Deliberately fudged the<BR>superstructure so the two crew would fit.&nbsp; Weight came out about right (I<BR>had a range of 120-148 tons to fit in, though).&nbsp; Power to weight too high.<BR>I gave the vehicle the road speed estimated for the real vehicle.&nbsp; Had to<BR>use TL-6 crew volume (as in A7V; these German tanks are cramped).<BR><BR>The vehicle's "turret" is actually a superstructure for the vehicle's<BR>commander and the gunnery officer to have a lookabout.&nbsp; Drivers in hull<BR>front have almost no visibility, and rely on commander to direct them.<BR>Should be as unreliable as A7V.&nbsp; Fun to design &amp; look at, but not practical<BR>(artillery barrages will k.o. it easily).&nbsp; I'd guess the Char 2C would <BR>probably<BR>be the best WWI heavy tank.<BR><BR>Note about the large waste space on the Whippet of my previous post:<BR>The trouble with Whippets under Striker is that the tank's hull doesn't <BR>overhang the suspension.&nbsp; The suspension should have a "virtual height"<BR>equal to the chassis' height.&nbsp; This shaves off about 6 m^3.&nbsp; Factoring in<BR>the peaked deck (say -10% to hull volume for deck AV of 2; this is il-<BR>legal under Striker), cuts the waste space down to a reasonable 4.x m^3.<BR><BR>This may also account for the overweight condition of the French light<BR>tanks (would reduce size of hull, as they also don't overhang the sus-<BR>pension much).<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR><BR>K-Wagen&nbsp; TL-5<BR><BR>This vehicle has a crew of 22 (commander, gunnery officer, signaler, 2 <BR>mechanics, 11 gunners, 4 loaders, 2 drivers).&nbsp; It is fitted with a large<BR>sponson on each side, and an observation superstructure for the commander<BR>&amp; gunnery NCO.&nbsp; It mounts 4 7.5 cm howitzers in the sponsons (one firing <BR>forward, one aft in each sponson).&nbsp; It also mounts 7 MMGs (one forward, <BR>one on each side in the forward hull; one firing to the side in each <BR>sponson, and one firing aft in each sponson).&nbsp; The 7.5 cm guns have direct<BR>fire control.&nbsp; Length: 12.6 m.&nbsp; Width: 2.7 m (+ 3.4 m for sponsons at their<BR>widest).&nbsp; Height: 2.4 m (+ 0.5 m for superstructure).&nbsp; Total volume: 111.79<BR>m^3.&nbsp; Weight: 122.17 tons.&nbsp; Won't float.&nbsp; Cost: Cr 271,956; not bad for TL-5.<BR>Cost &amp; weight include full load of ammunition.<BR><BR>Movement:&nbsp; Road speed: 8 kph/6.7 cm.&nbsp; Cross-country: 2.4 kph/2 cm<BR>Endurance: 3.4 hours.&nbsp; Power:weight = 7.9(!)<BR>Ground pressure: c. 8 tons / m ^2.<BR><BR>Movement effects on fire: Move up to 1/2: -4 FFP, no fire EFP.&nbsp; Move over<BR>1/2: no fire. <BR><BR>Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Sponson front: 17.&nbsp; Hull front &amp; rear, sponson rear,<BR>superstructure (any): 14.&nbsp; Hull sides, sponson sides, deck, belly: 9.<BR><BR>Target size DMs: +4 low (hull).&nbsp; +2 low (either sponson)&nbsp; +1 high.<BR><BR>Equipment: none.<BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>The low velocity 7.5 cm guns may engage 1 target, each.&nbsp; They have direct<BR>fire control &amp; a signature of +2.&nbsp; 800 rounds are carried (200 per gun;<BR>60 KEAP, 140 HE).&nbsp; ROF per phase is 5.<BR><BR>Ammo&nbsp; &nbsp; Effective&nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR><BR>KEAP&nbsp; &nbsp; 20(21)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 60(19)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 150(17)<BR>HE&nbsp; 20(12/1/2)&nbsp; 60(12/1/2)&nbsp; 150(12/1/2)<BR><BR>The medium machineguns may each engage 8 targets.&nbsp; They have a signature<BR>of +2 and sufficient ammo for 37 phases of fire, each.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Effective&nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme<BR><BR>MMG 40(3)+4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 75(2)+3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 120(2)+1<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR>Design details:<BR><BR>Hull: 12.6 m long, 2.7 m wide, 2.4 m high.&nbsp; Hull volume = 81.648 m^3<BR><BR>Suspension: Tracked <BR>12.6 m long by 1.3 m wide by 2.4m high (it was much higher than 1 meter).<BR>Weight: 39.312 tons.&nbsp; Volume: 39.312 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 98,280.<BR>Remaining volume: 42.336 m^3 <BR><BR>Configuration: Moderate front &amp; rear, vertical sides.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available volume: 33.8688 m^3<BR><BR>Turret: 2.4 m long, 2.4 m wide, 0.5 m high.&nbsp; Turret volume = 2.88 m^3<BR>Configuration: moderate front, sides &amp; rear.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available turret volume: 1.728 m^3<BR><BR>Sponsons (2): 9 m long, 1.7m wide, 1.7 m high.&nbsp; Sponson volume = 26.01 m^3.<BR>Configuration: radical front, vertical sides (deck &amp; belly), moderate rear.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Available volume per sponson: 18.207 m^3 <BR><BR><BR>Hull Armor: Mild steel.&nbsp; Volume = 4.2444 m^3&nbsp; Weight = 33.96 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cost = Cr 6792&nbsp; Remaining volume = 29.624 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 3 cm thick (AV 14), 0.1944 m^3<BR>Sides = 3 cm thick (AV 9), 1.8144 m^3.<BR>Rear = 3 cm thick (AV 14), 0.1944 m^3 <BR>Deck = 3 cm thick (AV 9), 1.0206 m^3.<BR>Belly = 3 cm thick (AV 9), 1.0206 m^3.<BR><BR>Superstructure Armor: Mild Steel&nbsp; Volume = 0.138 m^3.&nbsp; Weight = 1.104 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cost = Cr 221&nbsp; Remaining Volume = 1.59 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 3 cm thick (AV 14), 0.0345 m^3.<BR>Sides = 3 cm thick (AV 14), 0.069 m^3.<BR>Rear = 3 cm thick (AV 14), 0.0345 m^3.<BR><BR>Total Sponson Armor: Mild Steel&nbsp; Volume = 2.1828 m^3.&nbsp; Weight = 17.47 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cost = Cr 3493&nbsp; Remaining Volume (per sponson) = 17.115 m^3<BR><BR>Front = 3 cm (AV 17), 0.0867 m^3.<BR>Rear = 3 cm (AV 14), 0.0867 m^3.<BR>Top = 3 cm (AV 9), 0.459 m^3<BR>Bottom = 3 cm (AV 9), 0.459 m^3<BR>Side (taken from hull) (AV 9) = N/A<BR><BR>* = in turret<BR>[L] = in left sponson<BR>[R] = in right sponson<BR><BR>Power Plant: Internal combustion, 6.47 m^3.&nbsp; Output 0.97 MW.&nbsp; 6.47 tons.<BR>Cr 6470. <BR><BR>Transmission: 4.85 m^3.&nbsp; 4.85 tons.&nbsp; Cr 4850.<BR><BR>Fuel:&nbsp; 3000 liters of fuel for 3.4 hour endurance: 3 m^3, 3 tons <BR>Cr 750.&nbsp; Power Plant consumes 873 liters per hour.<BR><BR>Crew:<BR>2 Drivers, seated in hull,&nbsp; Volume 3 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.4 tons&nbsp; Cr200<BR>2 Mechanics, seated in hull&nbsp; Volume 3 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.4 tons&nbsp; Cr 200<BR>3 Gunners, seated in hull,&nbsp; Volume 4.5 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.6 tons&nbsp; Cr 300<BR>4 Gunners, seat. in left sponson,&nbsp; Vol. 6 m^3&nbsp; Wt. 0.8 tons&nbsp; Cr 400 [L]<BR>2 Loaders, stand. in left sponson,&nbsp; Vol. 5 m^3&nbsp; Wt. 0.4 tons&nbsp; Cr 200 [L]<BR>4 Gunners, seat. in right sponson,&nbsp; Vol. 6 m^3&nbsp; Wt. 0.8 tons&nbsp; Cr 400 [R]<BR>2 Loaders, stand. in right sponson,&nbsp; Vol. 5 m^3&nbsp; Wt. 0.4 tons&nbsp; Cr 200 [R]<BR>1 Signaler, standing in hull, Volume 2.5 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100<BR>1 Commander, seated in supst.&nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 0.75 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100*<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.75 m^3 of Commander's position taken from hull<BR>1 Gunnery NCO, seated in supst.&nbsp; Volume 0.75 m^3&nbsp; Weight 0.2 tons&nbsp; Cr 100*<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.75 m^3 of Gunnery NCO's position taken from hull<BR><BR>Signaler communicates orders from commander to gunners/loaders.<BR>Commanders *were* sitting, so I ignored the commander must stand rule.<BR><BR>Weapons:<BR><BR>4 low velocity TL-5 7.5cm gun in fixed forward mount in hull front, with<BR>direct fire control.<BR><BR>Totals: 1.22 tons, 1.22 m^3, Cr 94,000<BR>(0.61 m^3 in each sponson) [L] &amp; [R]<BR><BR>Crew: 2 each<BR>Weight: 0.3 tons.&nbsp; Volume: 0.3 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 23,000<BR>Direct fire control: 0.005 tons.&nbsp; 0.005 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 500.<BR>Range: 20 cm / 60 cm / 150 cm.&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Stabilization gear: none. <BR>ROF per phase: 5.<BR>Signature: +2.<BR><BR>Ammunition Types:<BR>HE: PV 12/1/2.&nbsp; Wt. 0.012 tons.&nbsp; Vol. 0.012 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 24.&nbsp; Figures per round.<BR>KEAP: PV 21/19/17.&nbsp; Wt 0.012 tons.&nbsp; Vol. 0.012 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 24. Figures per <BR>round.<BR><BR>800 rounds carried (200 per gun)<BR>(240 KEAP, 560 HE): Cr 19,200&nbsp; 9.6 tons,&nbsp; 9.6 m^3.<BR>(4.8 m^3 in each sponson) [L] &amp; [R]<BR><BR>7 Medium Machineguns: 1 per side, 1 in front of hull; fixed mounts.<BR>1 per side, 1 in rear of sponson.<BR>No fire control or stabilization.<BR>Crew 1 per gun.<BR>Volume: 0.0665 m^3.&nbsp; Weight: 0.0665 tons.&nbsp; Cr 10,500<BR>(0.019 m^3 from each sponson) [L] &amp; [R]<BR>(0.0285 m^3 in hull)<BR><BR>210 belts of ammo carried (30 per gun): 0.525 tons.&nbsp; 0.525 m^3.&nbsp; Cr 25,200.<BR>(0.225 m^3 in hull)<BR>(0.15 m^3 in each sponson) [L] &amp; [R]<BR><BR>Waste space in Hull: 0.55 m^3<BR>Waste space in Superstructure: 0.09 m^3 <BR>Waste space in sponson (each): 0.536 m^3<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:13:47 -0500<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Andromdea [Was RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds]<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:44:40 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I actually encountered this yesterday watching Andromeda...the<BR>&gt; &gt; guy in the hawaiian shirt refered to 'G-ow-ss' weaponry :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't get good reception where I am (no cable, satellite, or On<BR>&gt; Digital, and terrestrial is sometimes iffy) so most of the&nbsp; TV&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; watch is on store-bought&nbsp; video/DVD&nbsp; (I&nbsp; now&nbsp; have&nbsp; 1200).&nbsp; So&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; haven't seen Andromeda.&nbsp; Is it worth buying when it comes out?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Depends. How much do you like Star Trek, particularly the current<BR>incarnation of ST: Voyager? And how much do you like Earth: Final<BR>Conquest? Since they are all made by the same group of people with the<BR>same style of writing, visual sense, approach to issues and their<BR>resolution, if you like the Star Trek/E:FC you will like Andromeda. If<BR>not, you'll hate it. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Personally, it's like a habit. I really am not all that interested in<BR>watching it because there's so much better on (B5 in repeats, Farscape,<BR>etc), and it's just like the others, but every week, there I am glued to<BR>the TV while it runs. <BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:10:34 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: Whippet<BR><BR>"Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;The Whippet floats, or so it appears.&nbsp; Maybe it should have auxiliary water<BR>&gt;propulsion.<BR><BR>Except that if it's anything like the historical WW1 tanks, there are<BR>probably great big gaps between the armour plates, loose-fitting<BR>rivets, and so forth.&nbsp; Not exactly seaworthy...<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:45:13<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>At 06:19 PM 11/14/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I've been lurking for a day and am saddened and disappointed. Where <BR>&gt;is your *vim*? You can't seriously be all enthralled with the <BR>&gt;melodramatics of some tinpot pre-stellar-tech type-4 government, can <BR>&gt;you?&nbsp; This is simply intolerable.&nbsp; I have no choice but to return in <BR>&gt;person and drag the TML, kicking and screaming, back to the glorious <BR>&gt;past heights of FF&amp;S abuse, songwriting, and lurid IMTU true <BR>&gt;confessions that made this the BEST DAMN MAILING LIST IN THE KNOWN <BR>&gt;UNIVERSE.&nbsp; (hoo-yah!)<BR><BR>He's baaacckk....<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:46:30<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>At 03:31 PM 11/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;::evil high pitched anime laugh::<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;kirichan ^_^ yori<BR><BR>I've seen her laugh like this.&nbsp; It's frightening.&nbsp; Her eyes get really big,<BR>her mouth tiny, and her hair turns purple.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:57:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 03:31 PM 11/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;::evil high pitched anime laugh::<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;kirichan ^_^ yori<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've seen her laugh like this.&nbsp; It's frightening.&nbsp; Her eyes get really big,<BR>&gt; her mouth tiny, and her hair turns purple.<BR>&gt; <BR>wouldn't you love to know where I get my hair products?<BR><BR>LOL<BR>kiri<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3289<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg05.mx.aol.com (rly-yg05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.5]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:02:02 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:01:29 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA15176;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:57:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:57:17 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA15132<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:57:17 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:57:17 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011150057.TAA15132@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3289<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3290</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/14/00 7:30:08 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, November 14 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3290<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Sword Worlds<BR>Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: Sword Worlds<BR>AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re: What in&nbsp; misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>RE: T4 Errata<BR>RE: FNORD <BR>Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re: What in&nbsp;&nbsp; misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>RE: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re: What inmisjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: Backflow Preventers...<BR>RE: FNORD<BR>RE: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>RE: FNORD<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:23:43 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt;I've always assumed that that mercenary battalion is from Darrian.<BR><BR>Here's all I can find so far:<BR><BR>"Aslan mercenaries who settled in Darrian after the previous wars maintain their<BR>own reserve mercenary units which are available for Darrian or Imperial<BR>service." (SMC, p 8)<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:23:59 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Peter said:<BR>&gt;Someone has probably already answered this but remembrance Sunday is the<BR>&gt;closest Sunday to the 11th of November and is the day when in the<BR>&gt;Commonwealth, we remember the dead of the wars and pay homage to those who<BR>&gt;did not come back.<BR><BR>In the Oz part of the Commonwealth, we remember the fallen at 11 am on the 11th<BR>of November with a minute's silence. It used to be two minutes - just shows the<BR>effect of our modern lifestyle on tradition, eh? This is the anniversay of the<BR>signing of the Treaty of Versailles at the end of WW1.<BR><BR>The *big* day here is Anzac Day. From:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/anzac_tradition.htm<BR><BR>"Anzac Day - 25 April - is probably Australia's most important national<BR>occasion. It marks the anniversary of the first major military action fought by<BR>Australian and New Zealand forces during the First World War. ANZAC stands for<BR>Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. The soldiers in those forces quickly<BR>became known as Anzacs, and the pride they soon took in that name endures to<BR>this day."<BR><BR>The idea is that although we became a nation on 1 Jan 1901, we were not brought<BR>toghether in spirit until blooded in war in WW1.<BR><BR>(Interesting that you picked "For The Fallen" from the Australian War Memorial's<BR>Anzac Day site!)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:24:24 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>Oh goodie! I was hoping that we could warm things up in time for the dawn of<BR>the new millennium ( T minus 47 days and counting ). we're gonna party like<BR>its... oh, wait. Um, let me get back to you on that.<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;&gt;&lt;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>_______________________________________<BR>________ www.TravellerTrader.com __________<BR>"The place to get that wonderful,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; out-of-print Traveller stuff!"<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Kenji Schwarz" &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; I've been lurking for a day and am saddened and disappointed. Where<BR>&gt; is your *vim*? You can't seriously be all enthralled with the<BR>&gt; melodramatics of some tinpot pre-stellar-tech type-4 government, can<BR>&gt; you?&nbsp; This is simply intolerable.&nbsp; I have no choice but to return in<BR>&gt; person and drag the TML, kicking and screaming, back to the glorious<BR>&gt; past heights of FF&amp;S abuse, songwriting, and lurid IMTU true<BR>&gt; confessions that made this the BEST DAMN MAILING LIST IN THE KNOWN<BR>&gt; UNIVERSE.&nbsp; (hoo-yah!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:40:03 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>SwordWorlder wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Oh goodie! I was hoping that we could warm things up in time for the dawn of<BR>&gt; the new millennium ( T minus 47 days and counting ). we're gonna party like<BR>&gt; its... oh, wait. Um, let me get back to you on that.<BR><BR>I believe an appropriate completion to this sentence is "...the end of<BR>the world as we know it (and I feel fine)."&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:14:48 EST<BR>From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Sword Worlds<BR><BR>In a message dated 11/14/00 8:12:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; <BR>Here's all I can find so far:<BR><BR>"Aslan mercenaries who settled in Darrian after the previous wars maintain <BR>their<BR>own reserve mercenary units which are available for Darrian or Imperial<BR>service." (SMC, p 8)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>In GT: BtC there is mention of Aslan fighting on Zamine (p.47) but it does <BR>not say if they were mercenaries...<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:31:26 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re: What in&nbsp; misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've been lurking for a day and am saddened and disappointed. Where<BR>&gt; is your *vim*? You can't seriously be all enthralled with the<BR>&gt; melodramatics of some tinpot pre-stellar-tech type-4 government, can<BR>&gt; you?&nbsp; This is simply intolerable.&nbsp; I have no choice but to return in<BR>&gt; person and drag the TML, kicking and screaming, back to the glorious<BR>&gt; past heights of FF&amp;S abuse, songwriting, and lurid IMTU true<BR>&gt; confessions that made this the BEST DAMN MAILING LIST IN THE KNOWN<BR>&gt; UNIVERSE.&nbsp; (hoo-yah!)<BR><BR>If you want glorious FF&amp;S abuse (at least FF&amp;S2), then AuricTech<BR>Shipyards is happy to oblige.<BR><BR>**begin transmission**<BR><BR>AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_ Battleship<BR><BR>Tons: 1,000,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic) <BR>Dimensions: 613 m x 176.4 m x 176.4 m<BR>Volume: 14000000 m3<BR>Cargo: 15000 std (200 hatches, Hdl: 200 x 50 t) <BR>Mass (L/C): 15123328 t / 14497542 t <BR>Maintenance Points: 394802<BR>Passengers High/Med: 0 <BR>Crew: 15772 / 19744 <BR>Frozen Watch: 395 (20 groups)<BR>Cost: 1353220.013 MCr&nbsp;&nbsp; (Cost Multiplier 1)<BR>Tech Level: 15<BR>Size: 12 <BR><BR>Electronics<BR>Controls: Holographic, Standard&nbsp; automation. 120 x FltComp (CM: .2 CP:<BR>5.0). 20 x FibComp (CM: .2 CP: 5.0). Terrain following sensors (TF: 570,<BR>NOE: 190). Bridge.<BR>Communications: 6 x Radio (1,000 AU, 0.2 MW). 20 x Laser (1,000 AU, 0<BR>MW). 4 X Meson (1,000 AU, 5 MW).<BR>Sensors: 1 x PEMS (15 [500 mkm], 5 MW). 1xAEMS (13 [16 mkm] LP, 500 MW).<BR>16 x LIDAR (15 [2 mkm], 2.5 MW).<BR>Survey/Science: 1 x Densiometer (9.5 [1600 km]). 1 x Neutrino (9.5 [1600<BR>km] Sci, 2000 MW).<BR>ECM: 2 x Radio Jammer (1,000 AU, 0.4 MW). 1 x Area Jammer (12, 625 MW).<BR>1 x Deceptive Jammer (13, 12.5 MW). 1 x Passive Jammer (16, 6.25 MW).<BR>Signatures: Vis: -0.5, IR: 1 (1 at 2356346 MW, 0.5 at 253000 MW), Act:<BR>0.5, Neu: 1, Grav: 2<BR><BR>Performance <BR>4 Jump (100000 std/pc fuel) <BR>6 / 6.2 Maneuver (Thruster: 2249800 MW)<BR>No Contra-grav<BR>5000 kph/5000 kph Atmosphere Maximum <BR>3750 kph/3750 kph Atmosphere Cruise <BR>5 Power (Fusion: 2530000 MW, 1 yr) <BR>0 Battery<BR>418514.3 Fuel (Scoop:1 / Purif: 24, 7324 MW) <BR>19900/100/400/5000 Accommodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy<BR>Low Berth) <BR>520000 Life Sup. (Type:Extended, Good Food/Storage) <BR>6 G-Comp<BR>100 x Sandcaster (AV: 79, 50 x canister ea., arranged in 20 x bty)<BR>24 x Nuclear Damper Turret (5 MW, Range: 50000 km, arranged in 6 x bty)<BR>500 Damper Screen (331 MW)<BR>1430 Meson Screen (5112.25 MW)<BR>170 [3575] Armor, 59 Structure <BR><BR>Weapons:<BR>6 x Beam MFD (500000 km)<BR>6 x Missile MFD (500000 km)<BR>48 x 61 MJ Laser Turret Battery (+6) 1/6-2-2-2 [4, 800/20-20-20-20]<BR>(Long Range) (4 x turret/bty).<BR>24 x 200 MJ Laser Turret Battery (+6) 1 /4-4-4-4 [2, 400/35-35-35-35]<BR>(Long Range) (2 x turret/bty).<BR>6 x 568 MJ Laser Bay Battery (+6) 1/10-10-10-10 [8, 100/60-60-60-60]<BR>(Long Range) (2 x laser/bay; 2 x bay/bty).<BR>24 x Missile Bay Auto 4/16 (Mag: 76, MFD Range: 500000 km) with 80 x Cmd<BR>DL 1d6/2 6.0 G12 1000 AU.<BR>3 x 11144 MJ Parallel PAW (+6) 2/13-13-13-13 [1, 200/750-750-750-750]<BR>(Long Range).<BR>1 x 188246 MJ Spinal PAW (+6) 2/20-20-20-20 [1, 200/3081-3081-3081-3081]<BR>(Long Range). (Armor: 40 [172]).<BR><BR>Features:<BR>10000 x Airlock<BR>1 x Docking Umbilical<BR>2 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea.)<BR>270 x Machine Shop (8 std ea.)<BR>100 x Sickbay (8 std ea.)<BR>115 x Prisoner Capacity (75 x LowSec brig, 20 x MedSec brig, 20 x HiSec<BR>brig)<BR>1 x Ship's locker (500 std)<BR>100 x Armory (7.14 std ea., Cap: 200)<BR>200 x Gym (2.5 std ea.)<BR>25 x Lounge (200 std ea.)<BR>1 x Combat Information Center (466 std)<BR>26 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 200)<BR>100 x Full Galley (Cap: 200 ea.) <BR><BR>Small Craft:<BR>12 x Minimal Hangar (400 std ea, 12 x hatch)<BR>16 x Minimal Hangar (200 std ea, 4 x hatch)<BR>24 x Spacious Hangar (50 std ea, 6 x hatch)<BR>1 x Launch Tube (200 std)<BR>2 x Launch Tube (50 std ea.)<BR><BR>Backups <BR>Drives: None <BR>Screens: 2 x Meson Screen (PV: 143). 1 x Damper Screen (PV: 160).<BR>Communications: <BR>Sensors: 10 x PEMS (14.5 [160 mkm]). 10 x AEMS (12.5 [5 mkm]). 100 x<BR>LIDAR (14.5 [500 kkm]).<BR>ECM: 1 x Area Jammer (12). 1 x Deceptive Jammer (13). 1 x Passive Jammer<BR>(16).<BR>Power &amp; Fuel: 1 x Fusion (320000 MW). <BR><BR>Crew Details: 12 x Maneuver. 3 x Electronics. 12177 x Engineer. 880 x<BR>Maintenance. 1325 x Gunner. 86 x Screen. 220 x Flight. 1500 x Troops.<BR>2700 x Command. 182 x Medical.&nbsp; 659 x Steward.<BR><BR>**end transmission**<BR><BR>Designer's Notes:<BR><BR>(with apologies to Anheuser-Busch)<BR><BR>"This is the famous _Shiva_ battleship. We know of no warship produced<BR>by any other shipyard which costs so much to build and maintain. Our<BR>exclusive Gold-Plating [tm] produces a firepower, a survivability and a<BR>deployability you will find in no other warship at any price." [1]<BR><BR>Indeed, the _Shiva_ class makes the _Tigress_ and _Montana_ classes seem<BR>puny.&nbsp; Note that not even the _Shiva_ class' 188 gigaJoule NPAW spinal<BR>mount is capable of penetrating the ship's 75.9-cm thick Enhanced Bonded<BR>Superdense hull.&nbsp; Further, the smallest Sphere-configuration ship (using<BR>the _Tigress_ class' armor-efficient configuration) that could mount a<BR>similar NPAW spinal mount (length: 480 meters) would displace 4,150,000<BR>displacement tons (over four times the displacement of the largest<BR>practical ship given Imperial technology).&nbsp; Finally, the 1600 km range<BR>of _Shiva's_ densitometer and neutrino sensor can locate power plants<BR>for deep meson sites from orbit, enabling meson-equipped ships to engage<BR>this weak link in a planet's defensive array.<BR><BR>"Nothing exceeds like excess."<BR><BR>One final note:&nbsp; Those who (justifiably) quailed at the thought of a<BR>_Montana_ -class battleship streaking through the atmosphere at<BR>hypersonic speeds should be thoroughly dismayed at the idea of a _Shiva_<BR>doing the same.<BR><BR>Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very afraid.<BR><BR>[1]&nbsp; The original quote (from the Budweiser beer label) is as follows:<BR><BR>"This is the famous Budweiser beer. We know of no brand produced by any<BR>other brewer which costs so much to brew and age. Our exclusive<BR>Beechwood Aging produces a taste, a smoothness, and a drinkability you<BR>will find in no other beer at any price."<BR><BR>While many might dispute the claim, this truly is a magnificent<BR>Declaration of Intent, worthy of the great city of St. Louis, home of<BR>Anheuser-Busch.<BR><BR>http://www.nationalreview.com/25sept00/goldberg092500.shtml<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:32:54 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: T4 Errata<BR><BR>Errata Installation Method for T4<BR><BR>1) Burn all T4 books<BR>2) Buy GURPS:Traveller<BR>3) Game on<BR><BR>(dukking and running)<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Fox<BR>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 8:14 AM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: T4 Errata<BR><BR><BR>Hello Everyone:<BR><BR>&nbsp; Thanks for the feedback on the books of Traveller.<BR>&nbsp; I picked up a copy of T4 on ebay.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Question:&nbsp; Where can I find the errata for this book?<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Several people had said that there is one out there on the net.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Thanks<BR>&nbsp; John W. Fox<BR>&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:34:55 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: FNORD <BR><BR>46!!!<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The above statement is a lie.&nbsp; In fact, everything you read is a lie.<BR>&gt;&gt; Except for this sentence.&nbsp; The last sentence is a lie.&nbsp; fnord.<BR>&gt;&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The above statement is half true, half false, and half meaningless. It is<BR>&gt;also half true and false, half true and meaningless, and half false and<BR>&gt;meaningless. It is also half true and false and meaningless. Finally, it is<BR>&gt;half untrue, not false, and meaningful. As is this statement. Add up the<BR>&gt;halves. Divide by the number of statements (2). What number do you have?<BR>&gt;FNORD<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Ummm....&nbsp; 23 ?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler - COFIT<BR>- --------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - Don't blame them, they had no idea what they were in for when<BR>they hired me.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:56:37 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Kenji's back!!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;YA-TTTAH!&nbsp; hoohah!&nbsp; yokatta!<BR><BR>I'm told that someone has plans involving the Sayat and so I thought <BR>I should stop back in and ensure they're misused to the hilt.&nbsp; And <BR>spread truth and beauty everywhere I post, too, of course.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;BTW, exactly when was it you were planning to head back out to the Bay<BR>&gt;Area?<BR><BR>Well, I should have known better after being here for two years, but <BR>when you make outrageous, whiny, childish demands of John Harvard, <BR>he's perfectly capable of coming across.&nbsp; So I'm loitering around for <BR>*another* year out here while they look into replacing my advisor. <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; A couple of us had it in mind to do some Really Evil Things to you<BR>&gt;when you do.&nbsp; bwahahahahahah.<BR><BR>Pffffft.&nbsp; In my new role as Harvard's in-house bartending chief, <BR>there's a long and rapidly growing line of people waiting for a <BR>chance to do that.&nbsp; No cutting into the line, sorry!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:57:29 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re: What in&nbsp;&nbsp; misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>John Groff wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;If you want glorious FF&amp;S abuse (at least FF&amp;S2), then AuricTech<BR>&gt;Shipyards is happy to oblige.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;**begin transmission**<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_ Battleship<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Tons: 1,000,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)<BR>&gt;Dimensions: 613 m x 176.4 m x 176.4 m<BR><BR>Puja was never so priapic!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:45:36 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re: What inmisjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>Go Big or Go Home, right John?<BR><BR>[Robocop quote]<BR>IIIIII LIKE it!!!!<BR>[/Robocop quote]<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Groth<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 6:31 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re:<BR>&gt; What inmisjumping heck is going on here????<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I've been lurking for a day and am saddened and disappointed. Where<BR>&gt; &gt; is your *vim*? You can't seriously be all enthralled with the<BR>&gt; &gt; melodramatics of some tinpot pre-stellar-tech type-4 government, can<BR>&gt; &gt; you?&nbsp; This is simply intolerable.&nbsp; I have no choice but to return in<BR>&gt; &gt; person and drag the TML, kicking and screaming, back to the glorious<BR>&gt; &gt; past heights of FF&amp;S abuse, songwriting, and lurid IMTU true<BR>&gt; &gt; confessions that made this the BEST DAMN MAILING LIST IN THE KNOWN<BR>&gt; &gt; UNIVERSE.&nbsp; (hoo-yah!)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you want glorious FF&amp;S abuse (at least FF&amp;S2), then AuricTech<BR>&gt; Shipyards is happy to oblige.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; **begin transmission**<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_ Battleship<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tons: 1,000,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic) <BR>&gt; Dimensions: 613 m x 176.4 m x 176.4 m<BR>&gt; Volume: 14000000 m3<BR>&gt; Cargo: 15000 std (200 hatches, Hdl: 200 x 50 t) <BR>&gt; Mass (L/C): 15123328 t / 14497542 t <BR>&gt; Maintenance Points: 394802<BR>&gt; Passengers High/Med: 0 <BR>&gt; Crew: 15772 / 19744 <BR>&gt; Frozen Watch: 395 (20 groups)<BR>&gt; Cost: 1353220.013 MCr&nbsp;&nbsp; (Cost Multiplier 1)<BR>&gt; Tech Level: 15<BR>&gt; Size: 12 <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Electronics<BR>&gt; Controls: Holographic, Standard&nbsp; automation. 120 x FltComp (CM: .2 CP:<BR>&gt; 5.0). 20 x FibComp (CM: .2 CP: 5.0). Terrain following sensors (TF: 570,<BR>&gt; NOE: 190). Bridge.<BR>&gt; Communications: 6 x Radio (1,000 AU, 0.2 MW). 20 x Laser (1,000 AU, 0<BR>&gt; MW). 4 X Meson (1,000 AU, 5 MW).<BR>&gt; Sensors: 1 x PEMS (15 [500 mkm], 5 MW). 1xAEMS (13 [16 mkm] LP, 500 MW).<BR>&gt; 16 x LIDAR (15 [2 mkm], 2.5 MW).<BR>&gt; Survey/Science: 1 x Densiometer (9.5 [1600 km]). 1 x Neutrino (9.5 [1600<BR>&gt; km] Sci, 2000 MW).<BR>&gt; ECM: 2 x Radio Jammer (1,000 AU, 0.4 MW). 1 x Area Jammer (12, 625 MW).<BR>&gt; 1 x Deceptive Jammer (13, 12.5 MW). 1 x Passive Jammer (16, 6.25 MW).<BR>&gt; Signatures: Vis: -0.5, IR: 1 (1 at 2356346 MW, 0.5 at 253000 MW), Act:<BR>&gt; 0.5, Neu: 1, Grav: 2<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Performance <BR>&gt; 4 Jump (100000 std/pc fuel) <BR>&gt; 6 / 6.2 Maneuver (Thruster: 2249800 MW)<BR>&gt; No Contra-grav<BR>&gt; 5000 kph/5000 kph Atmosphere Maximum <BR>&gt; 3750 kph/3750 kph Atmosphere Cruise <BR>&gt; 5 Power (Fusion: 2530000 MW, 1 yr) <BR>&gt; 0 Battery<BR>&gt; 418514.3 Fuel (Scoop:1 / Purif: 24, 7324 MW) <BR>&gt; 19900/100/400/5000 Accommodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy<BR>&gt; Low Berth) <BR>&gt; 520000 Life Sup. (Type:Extended, Good Food/Storage) <BR>&gt; 6 G-Comp<BR>&gt; 100 x Sandcaster (AV: 79, 50 x canister ea., arranged in 20 x bty)<BR>&gt; 24 x Nuclear Damper Turret (5 MW, Range: 50000 km, arranged in 6 x bty)<BR>&gt; 500 Damper Screen (331 MW)<BR>&gt; 1430 Meson Screen (5112.25 MW)<BR>&gt; 170 [3575] Armor, 59 Structure <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Weapons:<BR>&gt; 6 x Beam MFD (500000 km)<BR>&gt; 6 x Missile MFD (500000 km)<BR>&gt; 48 x 61 MJ Laser Turret Battery (+6) 1/6-2-2-2 [4, 800/20-20-20-20]<BR>&gt; (Long Range) (4 x turret/bty).<BR>&gt; 24 x 200 MJ Laser Turret Battery (+6) 1 /4-4-4-4 [2, 400/35-35-35-35]<BR>&gt; (Long Range) (2 x turret/bty).<BR>&gt; 6 x 568 MJ Laser Bay Battery (+6) 1/10-10-10-10 [8, 100/60-60-60-60]<BR>&gt; (Long Range) (2 x laser/bay; 2 x bay/bty).<BR>&gt; 24 x Missile Bay Auto 4/16 (Mag: 76, MFD Range: 500000 km) with 80 x Cmd<BR>&gt; DL 1d6/2 6.0 G12 1000 AU.<BR>&gt; 3 x 11144 MJ Parallel PAW (+6) 2/13-13-13-13 [1, 200/750-750-750-750]<BR>&gt; (Long Range).<BR>&gt; 1 x 188246 MJ Spinal PAW (+6) 2/20-20-20-20 [1, 200/3081-3081-3081-3081]<BR>&gt; (Long Range). (Armor: 40 [172]).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Features:<BR>&gt; 10000 x Airlock<BR>&gt; 1 x Docking Umbilical<BR>&gt; 2 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea.)<BR>&gt; 270 x Machine Shop (8 std ea.)<BR>&gt; 100 x Sickbay (8 std ea.)<BR>&gt; 115 x Prisoner Capacity (75 x LowSec brig, 20 x MedSec brig, 20 x HiSec<BR>&gt; brig)<BR>&gt; 1 x Ship's locker (500 std)<BR>&gt; 100 x Armory (7.14 std ea., Cap: 200)<BR>&gt; 200 x Gym (2.5 std ea.)<BR>&gt; 25 x Lounge (200 std ea.)<BR>&gt; 1 x Combat Information Center (466 std)<BR>&gt; 26 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 200)<BR>&gt; 100 x Full Galley (Cap: 200 ea.) <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Small Craft:<BR>&gt; 12 x Minimal Hangar (400 std ea, 12 x hatch)<BR>&gt; 16 x Minimal Hangar (200 std ea, 4 x hatch)<BR>&gt; 24 x Spacious Hangar (50 std ea, 6 x hatch)<BR>&gt; 1 x Launch Tube (200 std)<BR>&gt; 2 x Launch Tube (50 std ea.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Backups <BR>&gt; Drives: None <BR>&gt; Screens: 2 x Meson Screen (PV: 143). 1 x Damper Screen (PV: 160).<BR>&gt; Communications: <BR>&gt; Sensors: 10 x PEMS (14.5 [160 mkm]). 10 x AEMS (12.5 [5 mkm]). 100 x<BR>&gt; LIDAR (14.5 [500 kkm]).<BR>&gt; ECM: 1 x Area Jammer (12). 1 x Deceptive Jammer (13). 1 x Passive Jammer<BR>&gt; (16).<BR>&gt; Power &amp; Fuel: 1 x Fusion (320000 MW). <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Crew Details: 12 x Maneuver. 3 x Electronics. 12177 x Engineer. 880 x<BR>&gt; Maintenance. 1325 x Gunner. 86 x Screen. 220 x Flight. 1500 x Troops.<BR>&gt; 2700 x Command. 182 x Medical.&nbsp; 659 x Steward.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; **end transmission**<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Designer's Notes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (with apologies to Anheuser-Busch)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "This is the famous _Shiva_ battleship. We know of no warship produced<BR>&gt; by any other shipyard which costs so much to build and maintain. Our<BR>&gt; exclusive Gold-Plating [tm] produces a firepower, a survivability and a<BR>&gt; deployability you will find in no other warship at any price." [1]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Indeed, the _Shiva_ class makes the _Tigress_ and _Montana_ classes seem<BR>&gt; puny.&nbsp; Note that not even the _Shiva_ class' 188 gigaJoule NPAW spinal<BR>&gt; mount is capable of penetrating the ship's 75.9-cm thick Enhanced Bonded<BR>&gt; Superdense hull.&nbsp; Further, the smallest Sphere-configuration ship (using<BR>&gt; the _Tigress_ class' armor-efficient configuration) that could mount a<BR>&gt; similar NPAW spinal mount (length: 480 meters) would displace 4,150,000<BR>&gt; displacement tons (over four times the displacement of the largest<BR>&gt; practical ship given Imperial technology).&nbsp; Finally, the 1600 km range<BR>&gt; of _Shiva's_ densitometer and neutrino sensor can locate power plants<BR>&gt; for deep meson sites from orbit, enabling meson-equipped ships to engage<BR>&gt; this weak link in a planet's defensive array.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Nothing exceeds like excess."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; One final note:&nbsp; Those who (justifiably) quailed at the thought of a<BR>&gt; _Montana_ -class battleship streaking through the atmosphere at<BR>&gt; hypersonic speeds should be thoroughly dismayed at the idea of a _Shiva_<BR>&gt; doing the same.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very afraid.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; [1]&nbsp; The original quote (from the Budweiser beer label) is as follows:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "This is the famous Budweiser beer. We know of no brand produced by any<BR>&gt; other brewer which costs so much to brew and age. Our exclusive<BR>&gt; Beechwood Aging produces a taste, a smoothness, and a drinkability you<BR>&gt; will find in no other beer at any price."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While many might dispute the claim, this truly is a magnificent<BR>&gt; Declaration of Intent, worthy of the great city of St. Louis, home of<BR>&gt; Anheuser-Busch.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.nationalreview.com/25sept00/goldberg092500.shtml<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>&gt; least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>&gt; your unit."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>&gt; magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:07:26 -0500<BR>From: CatWhoLeaps &lt;catwholeaps@mac.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Backflow Preventers...<BR><BR>Leonard Erikson visioned...<BR><BR>&gt; I have this vision of a toilet in use when something opens the "drain<BR>&gt; line" to vacuum. &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>Mix with a previous thread of 'How to stage a murder on a starship', spice<BR>with a bodice ripping pot-boiler and you have an adventure.&nbsp; Now to write it<BR>up. :)<BR><BR>David Crew<BR>MT Ref Trojan Reach 1120<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:21:15 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: FNORD<BR><BR>How do you get that???<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: FNORD<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:34:55 -0800<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;46!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; The above statement is a lie.&nbsp; In fact, everything you read is a lie.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Except for this sentence.&nbsp; The last sentence is a lie.&nbsp; fnord.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The above statement is half true, half false, and half meaningless. It is<BR>&gt; &gt;also half true and false, half true and meaningless, and half false and<BR>&gt; &gt;meaningless. It is also half true and false and meaningless. Finally, it <BR>&gt;is<BR>&gt; &gt;half untrue, not false, and meaningful. As is this statement. Add up the<BR>&gt; &gt;halves. Divide by the number of statements (2). What number do you have?<BR>&gt; &gt;FNORD<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Ummm....&nbsp; 23 ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler - COFIT<BR>&gt;--------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;Disclaimer - Don't blame them, they had no idea what they were in for when<BR>&gt;they hired me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:24:21 -0500<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:19:14 -0500<BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've been lurking for a day and am saddened and disappointed. Where<BR>&gt; is your *vim*? You can't seriously be all enthralled with the<BR>&gt; melodramatics of some tinpot pre-stellar-tech type-4 government, can<BR>&gt; you?&nbsp; This is simply intolerable.&nbsp; I have no choice but to return in<BR>&gt; person and drag the TML, kicking and screaming, back to the glorious<BR>&gt; past heights of FF&amp;S abuse, songwriting, and lurid IMTU true<BR>&gt; confessions that made this the BEST DAMN MAILING LIST IN THE KNOWN<BR>&gt; UNIVERSE.&nbsp; (hoo-yah!)<BR><BR>Hail to the all conquering Kenji, slayer of otposts.<BR><BR>David Shayne<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:26:43 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: FNORD<BR><BR>By pulling scrabble bits out of a bag.<BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of James Jensen<BR>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 7:21 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: RE: FNORD<BR><BR><BR>How do you get that???<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: FNORD<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:34:55 -0800<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;46!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; The above statement is a lie.&nbsp; In fact, everything you read is a lie.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Except for this sentence.&nbsp; The last sentence is a lie.&nbsp; fnord.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The above statement is half true, half false, and half meaningless. It is<BR>&gt; &gt;also half true and false, half true and meaningless, and half false and<BR>&gt; &gt;meaningless. It is also half true and false and meaningless. Finally, it<BR>&gt;is<BR>&gt; &gt;half untrue, not false, and meaningful. As is this statement. Add up the<BR>&gt; &gt;halves. Divide by the number of statements (2). What number do you have?<BR>&gt; &gt;FNORD<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Ummm....&nbsp; 23 ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler - COFIT<BR>&gt;--------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;Disclaimer - Don't blame them, they had no idea what they were in for when<BR>&gt;they hired me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3290<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3291</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/15/00 7:20:40 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 15 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3291<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: FNORD<BR>Re: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re:What&nbsp; in&nbsp;&nbsp; misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>Re: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>RE: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Super Dreadnaught arms race [ship design, long]<BR>Super Dreadnaught cont.<BR>RE: Andromdea [Was RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive ro unds]<BR>RE: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>RE: Andromdea<BR>Re: T4 Errata<BR>Re: For low-tech Striker: K-Wagen<BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>Stuff 1<BR>Stuff 2<BR>Is ACQ 15mm compatible?<BR>Couple of Things<BR>RE: Couple of Things<BR>RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:29:13 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FNORD<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;referring to Rod Basler's answer of 23&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; How do you get that???<BR><BR>If you need to ask, you aren't cleared for the answer.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:29:46 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re:What&nbsp; in&nbsp;&nbsp; misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; John Groff wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;If you want glorious FF&amp;S abuse (at least FF&amp;S2), then AuricTech<BR>&gt; &gt;Shipyards is happy to oblige.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;**begin transmission**<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_ Battleship<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Tons: 1,000,000 std (SL Medium Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic)<BR>&gt; &gt;Dimensions: 613 m x 176.4 m x 176.4 m<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Puja was never so priapic!<BR><BR>I shall take that, sir, as a compliment. ;-)<BR><BR>I do, however, ask that you spell my name correctly ("Groth") in the<BR>future.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:33:45 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>Yeah, sorry for the delay.<BR><BR>TNE has actually left 6 and 7 in place as captive government and<BR>balkanization, respectively. However, gov. type 6 is much more common in TNE<BR>due to the rise of TEDs following the collapse of the Imperium.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 6:20 AM<BR>Subject: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Has anyone ever tried running a "Pocket Empires" campaign set<BR>&gt; during the "New Era?"&nbsp; I found a nifty piece of software that<BR>&gt; takes a "Classic Era" sector and calculates what it might look<BR>&gt; like after the Rebellion and the Collapse.&nbsp; I thought it might<BR>&gt; be interesting to take either the Solomani Rim or the Spinward<BR>&gt; Marches, run it through the meat-grinder, and then use the<BR>&gt; "Pocket Empires" rules to play out the rebirth of interstellar<BR>&gt; civilization.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Unfortunately, I believe that in the "New Era" rules, the<BR>&gt; meaning of the government digit of the Universal World Profile<BR>&gt; has been fiddled with, and that a "6" no longer means "Captive<BR>&gt; Government" and a "7" no longer means "Balkanization."&nbsp; Can<BR>&gt; anyone direct me to an explanation of how governments are<BR>&gt; classified under the "New Era" rules?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:21:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I have this vision of a toilet in use when something opens the "drain<BR>&gt;&gt;line" to vacuum. &lt;shudder&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Sir! Target has fired some sandcasters!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Those aren't sandcasters, lieutenant...."<BR><BR>I was thinking more along the lines of a few incidents on airliners<BR>where people managed to "form a seal" with a section of their anatomy,<BR>and not only did the pressure difference make it hard to get them<BR>loose, and give them the mother of all hickeys, but it also tried to<BR>suck their guts out.<BR><BR>Note to self: *never* piss off the chief engineer!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:25:40 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;As I recall it lets you input the mass of the star. That *determines*<BR>&gt;&gt;the luminosity. Which, btw, is *different* at different ages.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This particular implementation of Accrete takes no input at all, unless I'm <BR>&gt; missing something. There were two other implementations available at the <BR>&gt; same website, but they're not accepting luminosity either.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There's a more fundamental problem with the version of Accrete I was pointed <BR>&gt; to, unforunately. It's not very random, and I was getting duplicate systems <BR>&gt; after a couple of dozen runs.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Since Accrete stars with the gas cloud condensing, the star goes thru a<BR>&gt;&gt;*wide* range of luminosity before it reaches the main sequence.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The actual variables for describing a star are mass and age. Those<BR>&gt;&gt;*determine* size and luminosity.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, but neither mass or (especially) age are readily available for real <BR>&gt; stars, which is what I'm working with. Current luminosity is the best thing <BR>&gt; I have.<BR><BR>Actually, mass is *readily* available for members of multiple star<BR>systems as well as for any of the stars that we've discovered planets<BR>around. <BR><BR>Age is tougher. But the H-R diagram has mass as one of the axes.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:45:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In the Oz part of the Commonwealth, we remember the fallen at 11 am<BR>&gt; on the 11th of November with a minute's silence. It used to be two<BR>&gt; minutes - just shows the effect of our modern lifestyle on tradition,<BR>&gt; eh? This is the anniversay of the signing of the Treaty of Versailles<BR>&gt; at the end of WW1.<BR><BR>Nope. It's when the armistice (ceasefire) went into effect. The<BR>preliminary documents were signed at least a day before that. And the<BR>signing at Versailles was later.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:56:04 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>John Groth wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; SwordWorlder wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Oh goodie! I was hoping that we could warm things up in time <BR>&gt; &gt; for the dawn of the new millennium ( T minus 47 days and <BR>&gt; &gt; counting ). we're gonna party like<BR>&gt; &gt; its... oh, wait. Um, let me get back to you on that.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I believe an appropriate completion to this sentence is "...the end of<BR>&gt; the world as we know it (and I feel fine)."&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>I read that and immediately thought it should be sung to a Beatles tune.<BR><BR>"..I'm in love with her and I feel fine." <BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:57:05 CET<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Super Dreadnaught arms race [ship design, long]<BR><BR>For far too long have the evil minds of AuricTech Shipyards been allowed to <BR>roam free on the TML. Armed with righteous wraith, 1.5 litres of coke, newly <BR>baked muffins, a newly sustained burn (the muffin baking business is <BR>dangerous I tell you) and AC/DC in the headphones I, Patrik Holmstrm head <BR>designer of Dimashq Starships, set out to find a solution.<BR><BR>After a long night of rapid prototyping I thank the patron saint of all <BR>gearheads, Andrew Akins, and present to you the "Mengingjord" Super <BR>Dreadnaught. Like all Dimashq designs it has been evaluated mostly with <BR>Bruce Macintosh's MCS.<BR><BR>Tons: 900'000 dt<BR>Config.: Streamlined Hypersonic, Medium Cone.<BR>Dimensions: 577 m x 289 m x 289 m<BR>Volume: 12'600'000 m3<BR>Cargo: 18'000 dt.<BR>Mass (L/C): 13'133'886t/12'521'537t<BR>Maintenance Points: 340509<BR>Passengers High/Med: 0<BR>Crew: 12921 / 16037<BR>Frozen Watch: 1000<BR>Cost: 1444 GCr<BR>Tech Level: 15<BR>Size: 11<BR><BR>Electronics<BR>Controls: Holographic, high automation. 90 x FibComp (CM: .2 CP: 5.0),<BR>Bridge (Armour: 200[6000]).<BR>Communications: 45 x 1'000 AU Radio Recievers, 45 x 1'000 AU Radio <BR>transievers, 90 x 1,000 AU Laser, 12 x 1'000 AU Meson.<BR>Sensors: 1 x PEMS sens 15, 1xAEMS sens 13 (High Powered), 90 x LIDAR sens <BR>15.5.<BR>ECM: 1 x Area Jammer sens 13, 1 x Deceptive Jammer sens 14, 2 x Passive <BR>Jammer sens 16.<BR>Signatures: Vis: 0.0, IR: 0.5 (0.0 at 3Gs w/o wewapons), Act: 1, Neu: 2, <BR>Grav: 2.<BR><BR>Performance<BR>4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Jump (90'000 dt/pc Lhyd)<BR>5/5.3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Maneuver (Thruster: 1'638 GW)<BR>No&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Contra-grav<BR>~5000 kph&nbsp; Atmosphere Maximum<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Power (Fusion: 2'150 GW, Endurance 6 months at max power)<BR>0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Battery<BR>367678&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fuel (Scoop:3, Purif: 22 hours)<BR>14500/2500 Accommodations (Small/Large)<BR>1000/1000&nbsp; Low Berths (LowBerth/EmBerth)<BR>83200&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Life Support (Type: Extended, Good Food)<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; G-Comp<BR>2100&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Meson Screen<BR>170 [3600] Armour, 59 Structure<BR><BR>Weapons<BR>20 x Twin 81 Mj laser battery (22 turrets/battery)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (+6) 1/15-4-4-4 [44,400/23-23-23-23] (LR)<BR>20 x PD batteries (64 lasers/battery)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (+6) 1/14-12-10-7 [64,400/15-7-4-2] (SR)<BR>10 x 710 Mj laser batteries (10 lasers/battery)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (+6) 1/13-13-13-13 [10,400/67-67-67-67] (LR)<BR>1 x 189Gj Spinal PAW<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (+6) 2/20-20-20-20 [1,200/3089-3089-3089-3089] (LR)<BR>1 x tripple 90 Gj Meson gun<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (+6) 2/23-23-18-14 [3,200/2130-2130-1014-507] (LR)<BR><BR>Features:<BR>9000 x Airlock<BR>50 x Electronic Shop (6 dt each)<BR>200 x Machine Shop (8 dt each)<BR>150 x Sickbay (8 dt each)<BR>10 x Laboratory (8 dt each)<BR>100 x MedSec brig<BR>20 x HiSec brig<BR>500 x Armory<BR>200 x Gym (2.5 dt each)<BR>100 x Lounge (50 dt each)<BR>1 x Flag bridge (Cap: 500, 1000 dt, Armour: 200[6000])<BR>200 x Full Galley (Cap: 90 each. Tot Cap: 18000)<BR>2 x Captain/Admirals Suite (24 dt each)<BR>20 x Senior Officers Suite (16 dt each)<BR>40 x Large Officers Suite (8 dt each)<BR>2337 x Officers Stateroom (4 dt each)<BR>130063 x Crew Stateroom (2 dt each)<BR><BR>Small Craft:<BR>10 x 100 dt Minimal Hangar (1 x hatch)<BR>10 x 100 dt Minimal Hangar (2 x hatch)<BR>5 x 100 dt Spacious Hangar (1 x hatch)<BR>1 x 25 dt Launch Tube<BR>12 x 95 dt Shuttle<BR>8 x 25 dt Ship's Boat<BR>15 x 10 dt Recon<BR>36 x 25 dt Fighter<BR>(typical mix of small craft)<BR><BR>Backups<BR>Screens: 1 x Meson Screen (PV: 680)<BR>Communications: 45 x Radio Tranceiver 50'000km , 90 x 1'000 Laser,<BR>12 x 500'000 km Meson.<BR>Sensors: 9 x PEMS sens 14.5, 9 x AEMS sens 12.5, 90 x LIDAR 14.5.<BR>ECM: 4 x Area Jammer (12). 4 x Deceptive Jammer (13). 4 x Passive Jammer <BR>(16).<BR>Backup MFD: 90 x Beam MFD 500'000 km.<BR><BR>Crew Details:<BR>12 x Maneuver, 19 x Electronics, 9838 x Engineer,<BR>881 x Maintenance, 1798 x Gunner, 55 x Screen, 150 x Flight,<BR>500 x Ship's Troops, 2199 x Command, 138 x Medical, 537 x Steward,<BR>200 x Flag Officers, 300 Flag support.<BR><BR>NEWS FLASH !!!! NEWS FLASH !!!! NEWS FLASH !!!! NEWS FLASH !!!!<BR>Dimashq Starships are proud to unveil the "Mengingjord" Super Dreadnought. <BR>This ship is designed to counter the ever increasing displacement of <BR>potential opposing vessels. The main armament is a 189 Gj PAW and a triple <BR>90 Gj Meson gun. Armour of more than 75 cm of enhanced superdense (AV: 3600) <BR>and a powerful meson screen (PV: 2100) gives the "Mengingjord" the <BR>capability to to slug it out with the largest ships out there.<BR><BR>Designer's notes<BR>The "Mengingjord" can carry a fleet staff of up to 500 crew to serve as <BR>fleet headquarters. The "Mengingjord" is somewhat more expensive than the <BR>"Shiva" (most expensive ship ehhh) even though is it 10% smaller. The PAW <BR>(similar to the one on the Shiva) is unable to penetrate the Shiva's hull <BR>but the Meson gun will rip right through the meson screen.<BR><BR>Other designs considered in the design process that displaced between<BR>1000 Mdt and 1500 Mdt (Behemoth-concept) and fired PAW's rated between 410 <BR>Gj and 880Gj with more expensive sensors. These were however deemed inferior <BR>to the Mengingjord-concept (mostly because of cost =&lt; 2Tcr and surface area <BR>concerns).<BR><BR>The ship boost more ECM and more numerous sensors/commo as well as a lower <BR>IR signature. The Visual signature is higher than the Shiva but since the <BR>passive signature is max{IR,Vis} this doesn't matter. Both the regular <BR>bridge and the flag bridge ("the Safes") are armoured with an additional 127 <BR>cm enhanced bonded superdense.<BR><BR>Patrik Holmstrm<BR>Dimashq Starships<BR><BR>"Dread naught because of evil men or be envious of those<BR>who do wrong; for like the grass they will soon wither,<BR>like green plants they will soon die away."<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:25:25 CET<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Super Dreadnaught cont.<BR><BR>Sorry, I forgot to add this to my last post.<BR><BR>Mengingjord was a magical belt worn by Thor the thundergod (of norse <BR>mythology fame) which doubled his strenght and wrath.<BR><BR>Patrik<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:36:06 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Andromdea [Was RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive ro unds]<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Depends. How much do you like Star Trek, particularly <BR>&gt; the current<BR>&gt; incarnation of ST: Voyager? And how much do you like Earth: Final<BR>&gt; Conquest? Since they are all made by the same group of people with the<BR>&gt; same style of writing, visual sense, approach to issues and their<BR>&gt; resolution, if you like the Star Trek/E:FC you will like Andromeda. If<BR>&gt; not, you'll hate it. <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>True...the Andromeda Ascendant even uses the same FTL drive<BR>(slipstream...just a jumped-up wormhole drive) that appears in E:FC and in<BR>some episodes of Voyager (except that unlike the Taelons, the Andromeda<BR>never tries to go to FTL INSIDE an atmosphere...I'm sorry, but to my mind<BR>that's just wrong) :)<BR><BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Personally, it's like a habit. I really am not all that <BR>&gt; interested in<BR>&gt; watching it because there's so much better on (B5 in repeats, <BR>&gt; Farscape,<BR>&gt; etc), and it's just like the others, but every week, there I <BR>&gt; am glued to<BR>&gt; the TV while it runs. <BR><BR>Yeah, it's not great SciFi, but it is SciFi. Plus I really like hearing the<BR>phrase 'High Guard' on TV :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:42:07 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav - It should be pretty hard to get the <BR>&gt; something into the<BR>&gt; &gt; wrong lines in a starship's engineering or life support <BR>&gt; systems by accident,<BR>&gt; &gt; and equally hard to get them in by design. (Stories <BR>&gt; notwithstanding of the<BR>&gt; &gt; guy who tried to steal some gas from a recreational vehicle <BR>&gt; via siphoning by<BR>&gt; &gt; mouth...and dunked his tube into the sewage holding tank <BR>&gt; rather than the<BR>&gt; &gt; gastank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have this vision of a toilet in use when something opens the "drain<BR>&gt; line" to vacuum. &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>Vaccuum enema? Nasty.<BR>Sounds like that urban legend of the guy who flushed the toilet in an<BR>airplane while he was using it, and the plane ended up training entrails.<BR>Ick.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:05:49 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>&gt;Actually, mass is *readily* available for members of multiple star<BR>&gt;systems as well as for any of the stars that we've discovered planets<BR>&gt;around.<BR><BR>Sure, but remember my premise here: generating "realistic" worlds. One of <BR>the things I've done is weed out binaries where one component is going to <BR>mess up potential planets, or where one is a white dwarf and presumably <BR>mucked up the joint when it evolved off the main sequence.<BR><BR>Out of the thirty-one stars I want to do in my first pass, for example, only <BR>eight have companions, and only one is close enough to have made a single <BR>orbit within living memory.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:36:51 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Andromdea<BR><BR>Thom Jones-Low wrote:<BR>&gt; Depends. How much do you like Star Trek, particularly the current<BR>&gt; incarnation of ST: Voyager? And how much do you like Earth: Final<BR>&gt; Conquest? Since they are all made by the same group of people with<BR>&gt; the same style of writing, visual sense, approach to issues and<BR>&gt; their resolution, if you like the Star Trek/E:FC you will like<BR>&gt; Andromeda. If not, you'll hate it. <BR><BR>Er ... and what if you really like Star Trek (including&nbsp; Voyager)<BR>but thougt Earth: Final Conflict sucked?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Personally, it's like a habit. I really am not all that interested<BR>&gt; in watching it because there's so much better on (B5 in repeats,<BR>&gt; Farscape, etc), and it's just like the others, but every week,<BR>&gt; there I am glued to the TV while it runs.<BR><BR>I have all the B5 episodes on tape, including the movies and&nbsp; the<BR>Crusade series (which wasn't *that* bad, and may be&nbsp; coming&nbsp; back<BR>according to Peter Woodward at Gencon UK&nbsp; 2K),&nbsp; and&nbsp; I'm&nbsp; getting<BR>Farscape on DVD as they come out (as well as Lexx and Buffy).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:49:38 +0100<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR><BR>John Fox wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Question:&nbsp; Where can I find the errata for [T4]?<BR><BR>http://www.Imperiumgames.com/errata.html<BR><BR>Someone (Downport?) really should mirror these files before they go<BR>offline...<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 06:11:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: For low-tech Striker: K-Wagen<BR><BR>For a really good description of the K-Wagen and other Great War German<BR>panzers (real or proposed), go to:<BR><BR>http://www.panzernet.com/articulos/wwone/wwone.html<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!<BR>http://calendar.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:22:01 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah, sorry for the delay.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; TNE has actually left 6 and 7 in place as captive government and<BR>&gt; balkanization, respectively. However, gov. type 6 is much more common <BR>&gt; in TNE due to the rise of TEDs following the collapse of the Imperium.<BR><BR>Hold on...why should Technologically Elevated Dictatorships be classified<BR>"Captive Governments?"&nbsp; I can see them as Self-Perpetuating Oligarchies,<BR>as Feudal Technocracies, as both Charismatic and Non-charismatic<BR>Dictatorships, as Charismatic Oligarchies ("The Minions of Lord Bob the<BR>Benevolent keep the food machines going with their Secret Knowledge...all<BR>praise Lord Bob"), and even as Totalitarian Oligarchies, but *not* as<BR>Captive Governments.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:57:44 -0000<BR>From: "MJ Dougherty" &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Stuff 1<BR><BR>Folks<BR><BR>The Fiction - Fantasy network is expanding its coverage to include<BR>mainstream fantasy and SF novels etc.<BR><BR>If you're a fan of a particular author an you'd like to contribute, here's<BR>how you can help...<BR><BR>Ideally one person will deal with a single author.<BR><BR>We need an author bio (borrow from the books or their website), a fan bio of<BR>yourself (you can include links to your own sites....) and then writeups<BR>(not reviews) of the books. These are very short; just saying what series<BR>the book is in, plus what it's about.<BR><BR>Barbara Hambly: Icefalcon's Quest<BR><BR>Genre: Fantasy<BR><BR>The people of what's left of the realm of Darwath have taken a pounding<BR>already, but now their future is again threatened. The child Prince Tir has<BR>been abducted, and the Icefalcon is at fault. He sets out to rescue his<BR>prince or (more likely) die in the attempt, as his quest leads him back into<BR>the ancestral lands of his people, who banished him long ago.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ...and of course, things are much worse than they seem.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Icefalcon's quest follows on from the Darwath Trilogy and The Mother of<BR>Winter, and reveals more about the enigmatic Icefalcon's character,<BR>background and motivations.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The story stands alone but is better in the context of the other books.<BR><BR>Anyone interested please contact me. If you want to feature your own books,<BR>we're happy to do that!<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>MJD<BR><BR>... and on an unrelated note: The Eye of Glory releases in a few days. It<BR>should be on Amazon for pre-order any day now....<BR><BR><BR>Martin J Dougherty<BR>Author: Behind the Throne, A Brevet for the Guillotine<BR>Creative Director, Fiction &amp; Fantasy Network<BR>www.fiction-fantasy.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:58:39 -0000<BR>From: "MJ Dougherty" &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Stuff 2<BR><BR>More Traveller fiction on FFN - including one by Terry McInnes.<BR><BR>www.fiction-fantasy.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:07:36 -0500<BR>From: Glenn Myers &lt;glenn.myers@ansys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?<BR><BR>Hey all,<BR><BR>Quick question... <BR><BR>I'm thinking of putting _At Close Quarters_ on my Christmas list but I need<BR>to know is it compatible with 15mm miniatures? <BR><BR>BTW, I bought out all of the laserburn 15mm stock of a british hobby shop.<BR>I've got a fair amount of duplicates. I would prefer to trade for other 15mm<BR>miniatures. If you are interested contact me off-list.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Glenn<BR><BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR>Glenn E. Myers<BR>ANSYS Inc.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>275 Technology Drive&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Phone: (724) 514-2913<BR>Canonsburg, PA 15317&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (724) 514-3118<BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:04:11 -0600<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Couple of Things<BR><BR>First, I'm looking for a world that I can develop into something I think<BR>you'll all find interesting.<BR><BR>I need an earth-like world, between 50-80% water, located within a few<BR>jumps of a large number of heavly populated worlds, and with a reasonably<BR>restrictive law level -- pupulation should not be more than a few hundred<BR>million, preferably less. Any ideas?<BR><BR>Second: It occurs to me that if the USA hasn't chosen a president by 20<BR>January, the position will be filled by the speaker of the house of<BR>representatives, who I think is Dennis Hastur of Illinois . . .<BR><BR>That's right -- H-A-S-T-U-<BR><BR>&lt;modem reports no carrier&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:11:36 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Loren Wiseman [mailto:lkw@io.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 15 November 2000 15:04<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Couple of Things<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; First, I'm looking for a world that I can develop into <BR>&gt; something I think<BR>&gt; you'll all find interesting.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I need an earth-like world, between 50-80% water, located within a few<BR>&gt; jumps of a large number of heavly populated worlds, and with <BR>&gt; a reasonably<BR>&gt; restrictive law level -- pupulation should not be more than a <BR>&gt; few hundred<BR>&gt; million, preferably less. Any ideas?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Second: It occurs to me that if the USA hasn't chosen a <BR>&gt; president by 20<BR>&gt; January, the position will be filled by the speaker of the house of<BR>&gt; representatives, who I think is Dennis Hastur of Illinois . . .<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's right -- H-A-S-T-U-<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;modem reports no carrier&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:12:58 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Second: It occurs to me that if the USA hasn't chosen a <BR>&gt; president by 20<BR>&gt; January, the position will be filled by the speaker of the house of<BR>&gt; representatives, who I think is Dennis Hastur of Illinois . . .<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Actually, a recent press release from Buckingham Palace has it differantly:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>" NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>To the citizens of the United States of America,<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus<BR>to&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your<BR><BR>independence, effective today.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties<BR>over&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she<BR><BR>does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP<BR>for&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world<BR><BR>outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the<BR>need&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A<BR><BR>questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of<BR>you&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>noticed.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following<BR>rules&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>are introduced with immediate effect:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.<BR>Then&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed<BR>at&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should<BR>raise&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the<BR><BR>same<BR><BR>twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and<BR>"you&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up<BR><BR>"interspersed".<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know<BR>on&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>your behalf.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents.<BR>It&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>really isn't that hard.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as<BR>the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>good guys.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The<BR>Queen",&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get<BR><BR>confused and give up half way through.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind<BR>of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good<BR><BR>game.<BR><BR>The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your<BR>borders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will<BR>no&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football.<BR><BR>Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a<BR><BR>difficult<BR><BR>game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby<BR><BR>(which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping<BR>for&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like<BR><BR>nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side<BR>by&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>2005.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons<BR>if&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that<BR>there&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>is<BR><BR>a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The<BR>Russians&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "sh*t".<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new<BR><BR>national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive<BR>Day".&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for<BR>your&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we<BR>mean.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.&nbsp; &nbsp; "<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3291<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xa03.mx.aol.com (rly-xa03.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.72]) by air-xa03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:20:40 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xa03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:20:19 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA85244;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:16:14 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:14:40 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA84699<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:14:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:14:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011151514.KAA84699@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3291<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 15 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3292<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Is ACQ 15mm compatible? (off-thread)<BR>re: Imperial Compromises<BR>Re: Couple of Things<BR>Re: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?<BR>Re: T4 Errata<BR>Re: T4 Errata<BR>RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR>RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR>RE: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?<BR>RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humourous) (sic)<BR>RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>RE: Couple of Things<BR>RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>RE: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR>Re: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR>Peltier cooled weapons<BR>RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:24:19 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Is ACQ 15mm compatible? (off-thread)<BR><BR>This has nothing to do with the topic, but the ad on the screen with the <BR>message was "Gifts for travellers" (Yes, with two "l"s).<BR><BR>I thought you might like to know.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: Glenn Myers &lt;glenn.myers@ansys.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: "'traveller@lists.ient.com'" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:07:36 -0500<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hey all,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Quick question...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'm thinking of putting _At Close Quarters_ on my Christmas list but I need<BR>&gt;to know is it compatible with 15mm miniatures?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BTW, I bought out all of the laserburn 15mm stock of a british hobby shop.<BR>&gt;I've got a fair amount of duplicates. I would prefer to trade for other <BR>&gt;15mm<BR>&gt;miniatures. If you are interested contact me off-list.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Thanks,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Glenn<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;______________________________________________________<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Glenn E. Myers<BR>&gt;ANSYS Inc.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>&gt;275 Technology Drive&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Phone: (724) 514-2913<BR>&gt;Canonsburg, PA 15317&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (724) 514-3118<BR>&gt;______________________________________________________<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:46:41 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Imperial Compromises<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Well the first (and one of the biggest) that I can think of is "The<BR>Imperium<BR>&gt;does not rule the worlds, only the space in between" (or to put it in other<BR>&gt;words "no interference in your local affairs"). Brilliant piece of real<BR>politik<BR>&gt;from Cleon. Basically it says to every government "Join and get all the<BR>&gt;benefits of interstellar trade/defence etc and we won't interfere in the<BR>way<BR>&gt;you run your affairs". I don't think the Imperium could have been founded<BR>as<BR>&gt;well as it did without this.<BR><BR>Just so.<BR><BR>&gt;Sure since M0 the concept has weakened somewhat, but its still there.<BR><BR>This statement is a little inverted.&nbsp; In the game history, Milieu 0 precedes<BR>the other published work.&nbsp; In the history of the Imperium, the concept has<BR>become stronger.&nbsp; Initially, the Imperium interfered almost routinely in<BR>local affairs, basic concept to the contrary notwithstanding.&nbsp; The worlds<BR>that had been suffering during the Long Night welcomed Imperial aid, and<BR>accepted the Imperial interference that came with it.&nbsp; As things stabilized,<BR>the Imperium became less and less involved in local matters.&nbsp; By Milieu<BR>1100, the Imperium is much more "hands-off" than in Milieu 0.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:57:27 +0100<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Couple of Things<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>&gt; Second: It occurs to me that if the USA hasn't chosen a president by 20<BR>&gt; January, the position will be filled by the speaker of the house of<BR>&gt; representatives, who I think is Dennis Hastur of Illinois . . .<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's right -- H-A-S-T-U-<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;modem reports no carrier&gt;<BR><BR>Sadly, his name is Hastert. But it is close enough. Besides, the<BR>spelling "Hastur" is probably just as valid, since humans were never<BR>meant to be able to pronounce the true name anyway...<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:31:20<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?<BR><BR>At 10:07 AM 11/15/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'm thinking of putting _At Close Quarters_ on my Christmas list but I need<BR>&gt;to know is it compatible with 15mm miniatures? <BR><BR>Sure.&nbsp; We didn't specify a scale in the game, everything is given in<BR>meters. 15mm figs would be easily used.<BR><BR>And you need at *least* 20 copies.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>limbs!"&nbsp; - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:33:30<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR><BR>At 02:49 PM 11/15/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;John Fox wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Question:&nbsp; Where can I find the errata for [T4]?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://www.Imperiumgames.com/errata.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Someone (Downport?) really should mirror these files before they go<BR>&gt;offline...<BR><BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/t4.html<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:10:32 +0100<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/t4.html<BR><BR>Something along those lines, yes.<BR><BR>BTW, does the "E" in your name stand for "Emperor Penguin" ?<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:14:13 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR><BR>It's "humourous", old chap.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Second: It occurs to me that if the USA hasn't chosen a<BR>&gt;&gt; president by 20<BR>&gt;&gt; January, the position will be filled by the speaker of the house of<BR>&gt;&gt; representatives, who I think is Dennis Hastur of Illinois . . .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, a recent press release from Buckingham Palace has it differantly:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;" NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR><BR>This is not a bad option, actually.&nbsp; After all, Mr. Putin did almost<BR>immediately offer "any assistance that Russia can give."&nbsp; Russians or<BR>British?&nbsp; We'd have to vote.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:15:10 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Glenn M. Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@earthlink.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: 15 November 2000 16:14<BR>&gt; To: Traveller-Digest<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's "humourous", old chap.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Second: It occurs to me that if the USA hasn't chosen a<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; president by 20<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; January, the position will be filled by the speaker of the house of<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; representatives, who I think is Dennis Hastur of Illinois . . .<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, a recent press release from Buckingham Palace has <BR>&gt; it differantly:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;" NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is not a bad option, actually.&nbsp; After all, Mr. Putin did almost<BR>&gt; immediately offer "any assistance that Russia can give."&nbsp; Russians or<BR>&gt; British?&nbsp; We'd have to vote.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>SPLORT<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:17:03 -0500<BR>From: Glenn Myers &lt;glenn.myers@ansys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?<BR><BR>Thanks Doug,<BR><BR>It will go on my list with the Trilobites and the grapefruit spoons. Not a<BR>joke, I am really telling people to buy me these things.<BR><BR>Glenn<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 2:31 AM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Is ACQ 15mm compatible?<BR><BR><BR>At 10:07 AM 11/15/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'm thinking of putting _At Close Quarters_ on my Christmas list but I need<BR>&gt;to know is it compatible with 15mm miniatures? <BR><BR>Sure.&nbsp; We didn't specify a scale in the game, everything is given in<BR>meters. 15mm figs would be easily used.<BR><BR>And you need at *least* 20 copies.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>limbs!"&nbsp; - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:17:46 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humourous) (sic)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's "humourous", old chap.<BR><BR><BR>So it is...hate it when I typo. <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:42:44 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: John P. Raynor [mailto:john.raynor@yale.edu]<BR>&gt; Sent: 15 November 2000 14:22<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Yeah, sorry for the delay.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; TNE has actually left 6 and 7 in place as captive government and<BR>&gt; &gt; balkanization, respectively. However, gov. type 6 is much <BR>&gt; more common <BR>&gt; &gt; in TNE due to the rise of TEDs following the collapse of <BR>&gt; the Imperium.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hold on...why should Technologically Elevated Dictatorships <BR>&gt; be classified<BR>&gt; "Captive Governments?"&nbsp; I can see them as Self-Perpetuating <BR>&gt; Oligarchies,<BR>&gt; as Feudal Technocracies, as both Charismatic and Non-charismatic<BR>&gt; Dictatorships, as Charismatic Oligarchies ("The Minions of <BR>&gt; Lord Bob the<BR>&gt; Benevolent keep the food machines going with their Secret <BR>&gt; Knowledge...all<BR>&gt; praise Lord Bob"), and even as Totalitarian Oligarchies, but *not* as<BR>&gt; Captive Governments.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>There are two different tables for Goverment Type in TNE. <BR><BR>In the 'civilised' one it's as per traditional traveller, in the 'wilds'<BR>one it has TED's and other uniquely 'wild' Government Types. It is in<BR>this 'wilds' table that TED's are #6...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:19:38 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things<BR><BR>Loren wrote:<BR>&gt; I need an earth-like world,<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; pupulation should not be more than a few hundred million,<BR><BR>"Pupulation" ?&nbsp; So you're looking for a Vargr world?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:45:33 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>Anybody ever use the toilet in a submarine?<BR><BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 4:42 AM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav - It should be pretty hard to get the<BR>&gt; something into the<BR>&gt; &gt; wrong lines in a starship's engineering or life support<BR>&gt; systems by accident,<BR>&gt; &gt; and equally hard to get them in by design. (Stories<BR>&gt; notwithstanding of the<BR>&gt; &gt; guy who tried to steal some gas from a recreational vehicle<BR>&gt; via siphoning by<BR>&gt; &gt; mouth...and dunked his tube into the sewage holding tank<BR>&gt; rather than the<BR>&gt; &gt; gastank)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have this vision of a toilet in use when something opens the "drain<BR>&gt; line" to vacuum. &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>Vaccuum enema? Nasty.<BR>Sounds like that urban legend of the guy who flushed the toilet in an<BR>airplane while he was using it, and the plane ended up training entrails.<BR>Ick.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:12:57 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR><BR>The problem with understanding the commodore rank is its checkered history<BR>in the U.S. Navy. During most of the twentieth century Commodore was a<BR>formal rank at the O-7 level. While the O-7 rank existed between the World<BR>Wars (and after) during "peacetime" (not during the declared World Wars) the<BR>rank of "commodore" did not exist, instead Captains (O-6) were promoted to<BR>O-7, and then "frocked" to Rear Admiral rank.<BR><BR>The Navy followed this practice for the good part of thirty years. The<BR>upside of this practice was that for purposes of one-upmanship against the<BR>other services the Navy got twice as many flag officers of Rear Admiral rank<BR>while paying a good 60% of them less (O-7 pay), and they outranked all of<BR>the Army and Air Force O-7's in joint commands. Of course to the Army and AF<BR>flags this was not an upside. So in the eighties they made so much noise<BR>about it that Congress stopped letting the Navy follow this practice. So for<BR>about a decade the Navy had Commodores in peacetime.<BR><BR>This ran afoul of another Navy practice, the tradition of calling the<BR>commanding officer of submarine and destroyer squadrons, who was typically a<BR>captain, "Commodore" as a courtesy title. (Submarine and destroyer<BR>commanding officers, called "captain" as a courtesy, are usually Commanders<BR>(O-5's).)<BR><BR>So the Navy changed the rank title to Rear Admiral (Lower Half), with all of<BR>the attendant jokes among the ranks, which is the present practice. Squadron<BR>CO's are still called Commodore.<BR><BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Dan Lane<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 5:13 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Nobles for Loren (a little long, sorry)<BR><BR>Commodore is presently a position rather than a rank in the USN.<BR>Commodores are typically very senior captains who may or may not make the<BR>step up to the admiralty.<BR>I don't believe that they are considerd to be "flag" rank, although<BR><BR>The Rear Admiral Grade is divided into "lower" and upper" half designations.<BR>These are followed by vice-admiral and admiral. (3 and 4 stars respectively)<BR><BR>The highest rank (5-stars) is called "fleet" admiral and is eserved for<BR>wartime appointments.&nbsp; Ernest J. King and Arleigh Burke were the most recent<BR>holders IIRC.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:58 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Nobles for Loren<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;7&nbsp;&nbsp; Elphinstone&nbsp; &nbsp; 1-star&nbsp; &nbsp; Plot 3, Skill 0 (referred to as a Vice<BR>Admiral)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is probably an error in canon (gasp!) where Rear and Vice were<BR>switched.<BR>&gt; Santanocheev should have been referred to as a Vice Admiral prior to his<BR>&gt; promotion to Sector Admiral, and Elphinstone should be a Rear Admiral.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Note that the real-world ranks, in increasing seniority, are as follows:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Commodore<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rear Admiral<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Vice Admiral<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Admiral<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:16:40 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Backflow Preventers (was:Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>Leonard noted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was thinking more along the lines of a few incidents on airliners<BR>&gt; where people managed to "form a seal" with a section of their anatomy,<BR>&gt; and not only did the pressure difference make it hard to get them<BR>&gt; loose, and give them the mother of all hickeys, but it also tried to<BR>&gt; suck their guts out.<BR>&gt; <BR>I recall reports (possibly apocryphal) of people getting stuck to the <BR>drain in a swimming pool and getting their guts sucked out...<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:26:11 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Peltier cooled weapons<BR><BR>Anyone care to comment on the practicaity of using Peltier effect cooling<BR>for weapons like MGs?&nbsp; Just curious if this even makes sense, assuming an<BR>adequate power supply.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Tod<BR>- ----<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.<BR>- ----<BR>Tod Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:29:18 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>On Wed, 15 Nov 2000, Matt Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There are two different tables for Goverment Type in TNE. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In the 'civilised' one it's as per traditional traveller, in the 'wilds'<BR>&gt; one it has TED's and other uniquely 'wild' Government Types. It is in<BR>&gt; this 'wilds' table that TED's are #6...<BR><BR>Ugh...what a horrifying kludge, particularly since I suspect that who is<BR>"civilized" and who is living "out in the wilds" would often be a matter<BR>of opinion.&nbsp; How big does a region with regular interstellar travel have <BR>to be before one can safely call it a pocket of "civilization?"&nbsp; I can<BR>understand wanting to change the meaning of "No. 6" from "Captive<BR>Government" to something else (since "out in the wilds" interstellar<BR>travel is usually too risky and irregular for colonial governments to<BR>be maintained), but "Technologically Elevated Dictatorship" is such a<BR>vaguely defined catagory.&nbsp; In "the wilds," I'd say that "who controls <BR>the high technology" is so important that it has SOME influence over<BR>EVERY government, even in Participatory Democracies ("Vote for Bob on<BR>Tuesday, or he might not fix your holo-vision console on Wednesday...")<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:33:25 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR><BR>Oh, bloody hell....<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 7:13 AM<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Second: It occurs to me that if the USA hasn't chosen a <BR>&gt; &gt; president by 20<BR>&gt; &gt; January, the position will be filled by the speaker of the house of<BR>&gt; &gt; representatives, who I think is Dennis Hastur of Illinois . . .<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, a recent press release from Buckingham Palace has it <BR>&gt; differantly:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; " NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; To the citizens of the United States of America,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus<BR>&gt; to&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; independence, effective today.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties<BR>&gt; over&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP<BR>&gt; for&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the<BR>&gt; need&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of<BR>&gt; you&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; noticed.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following<BR>&gt; rules&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; are introduced with immediate effect:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.<BR>&gt; Then&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed<BR>&gt; at&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should<BR>&gt; raise&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; same<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and<BR>&gt; "you&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; "interspersed".<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know<BR>&gt; on&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; your behalf.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents.<BR>&gt; It&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; really isn't that hard.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as<BR>&gt; the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; good guys.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The<BR>&gt; Queen",&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; confused and give up half way through.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind<BR>&gt; of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; game.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your<BR>&gt; borders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will<BR>&gt; no&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; difficult<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping<BR>&gt; for&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side<BR>&gt; by&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 2005.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons<BR>&gt; if&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that<BR>&gt; there&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; is<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The<BR>&gt; Russians&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "sh*t".<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive<BR>&gt; Day".&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for<BR>&gt; your&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we<BR>&gt; mean.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; 10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.&nbsp; &nbsp; "<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3292<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb04.mx.aol.com (rly-yb04.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.4]) by air-yb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:38:10 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:36:44 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA96975;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:33:24 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:33:19 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id MAA96933<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:33:19 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:33:19 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011151733.MAA96933@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3292<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 15 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3293<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Couple of Things<BR>Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>Re : Backflow preventers (was Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR>RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>RE: Peltier cooled weapons<BR>RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR>Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR>Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR>RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>RE: Peltier cooled weapons<BR>Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR>Meson Communications<BR>RE: Meson Communications<BR>Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>RE: Peltier cooled weapons<BR>RE: T4 Errata<BR>Re: BOOM ( _Shiva_-class Battleship )<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3292<BR>Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>Re: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>Re: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>Viji-class Capitulation Cruiser<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:33:25 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things<BR><BR>ROFLMAOASMC-W!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 7:04 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Couple of Things<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; First, I'm looking for a world that I can develop into something I think<BR>&gt; you'll all find interesting.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I need an earth-like world, between 50-80% water, located within a few<BR>&gt; jumps of a large number of heavly populated worlds, and with a reasonably<BR>&gt; restrictive law level -- pupulation should not be more than a few hundred<BR>&gt; million, preferably less. Any ideas?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Second: It occurs to me that if the USA hasn't chosen a president by 20<BR>&gt; January, the position will be filled by the speaker of the house of<BR>&gt; representatives, who I think is Dennis Hastur of Illinois . . .<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's right -- H-A-S-T-U-<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;modem reports no carrier&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:37:32 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What in misjumping heck is going on here????<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Kenji's back!!!!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;YA-TTTAH!&nbsp; hoohah!&nbsp; yokatta!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm told that someone has plans involving the Sayat and so I thought<BR>&gt; I should stop back in and ensure they're misused to the hilt.&nbsp; And<BR>&gt; spread truth and beauty everywhere I post, too, of course.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;BTW, exactly when was it you were planning to head back out to the Bay<BR>&gt; &gt;Area?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, I should have known better after being here for two years, but<BR>&gt; when you make outrageous, whiny, childish demands of John Harvard,<BR>&gt; he's perfectly capable of coming across.&nbsp; So I'm loitering around for<BR>&gt; *another* year out here while they look into replacing my advisor.<BR><BR>Eeeewwww Kenji! What did you do to him/her/it? They just go and replace<BR>'em when you break 'em? No wonder Harvard's so expensive...<BR><BR>I really hope you AT least got some useful engineering data from the<BR>incident!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, Nov 16 2000 4:41:08 GMT+1100<BR>From: robocon@ozemail.com.au<BR>Subject: Re : Backflow preventers (was Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR><BR>The tales of people being eviscerated by plumbing are based on real cases.<BR><BR>There have been quite a number of incidents where<BR>children have sat on inground pool skimmer boxes<BR>(a lot of them look like potty chairs), sustaining horrific injuries.<BR><BR>This has led to significant design changes here in Australia.<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR>This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:01:10 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Plot ideas<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Situations that call for legal skill include nearly all <BR>&gt; dealings in or<BR>&gt; &gt;with high-law societies.&nbsp; Accusations of criminal or civil wrongdoing<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As a lawyer, I think that the last thing I would want to play <BR>&gt; in Traveller<BR>&gt; would be a lawyer.&nbsp; It would be more exciting and interesting <BR>&gt; (for me) to<BR>&gt; play an accountant.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The foregoing to the contrary notwithstanding, <BR><BR>You certainly are a lawyer, aren't you? :)<BR><BR>it is possible <BR>&gt; to conceive of<BR>&gt; situations in which the PCs can encounter lawyers, <BR>&gt; impersonate lawyers, or<BR>&gt; be lawyers.&nbsp; I'll attempt on example of each.<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;snip 'Discovery'&gt;<BR>Goodone...a seed for an investigation scenario.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Impersonating lawyers:<BR>&gt; Lawyers may have certain rights, typically rights of access, <BR>&gt; that ordinary<BR>&gt; citizens do not.&nbsp; For example, even in the nominally classless United<BR>&gt; States, lawyers get a lot more assistance and information <BR>&gt; from court clerks<BR>&gt; than non-lawyers.&nbsp; In court, the only people who may make an <BR>&gt; argument, enter<BR>&gt; into a stipulation, or do many other things are lawyers and <BR>&gt; the parties<BR>&gt; themselves.&nbsp; I have seen judges instruct non-lawyer advocates <BR>&gt; to just sit<BR>&gt; down and stop talking.&nbsp; <BR><BR>In the British legal system we have two varieties of lawyers...solicitors<BR>(legal advisors and experts) and barristers (the guys who actually speak in<BR>court). To take a case to court you need both.<BR><BR>OB-Trav: Do you need Barristers? JTAS already has an article on Imperial Law<BR>proceedings, but what about locally?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:09:51 -0800<BR>From: james cooper &lt;tloql@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR><BR>In order to alleviate the US presidency dilemam, may I suggest that they both be<BR>appointed to a joint presidency, and share the oval office.<BR><BR>Don't laugh!<BR><BR>At a council meeting last night, on a 5 to 2 vote, our council passed a motion<BR>that will see the mayor's office set up with 2 desks, 2 chairs, computers, add<BR>infinitum so that they 'Councillors' can have room to host their constituents.<BR>Then they passed by the same 5 to 2 vote that the 'Mayor' would have to apply<BR>for specific times to have exclusive use of 'the office' to meet with<BR>delegations. A&nbsp; third motion that would see separate offices set up and aside<BR>for the 'Councillors' was voted down, amazingly by the same 5 to 2 vote.<BR>Welcome to the 'new democratic process' as envisioned by the enlightened.<BR><BR>Anyone want to hazard a code number for Government in this case.<BR><BR>Jim Cooper<BR><BR>"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It's "humourous", old chap.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:15:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>Jones, Dean writes:<BR><BR>&gt; OB-Trav: Do you need Barristers? JTAS already has an article on Imperial<BR>&gt; Law proceedings, but what about locally?<BR><BR>I don't believe that imperial law specifies how local law operates.&nbsp;&nbsp; 11,000 <BR>worlds, 11,000 codes of law.&nbsp; Might make an interesting JTAS article, but I'm<BR>not the one to write it.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:16:14 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Peltier cooled weapons<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anyone care to comment on the practicaity of using Peltier <BR>&gt; effect cooling<BR>&gt; for weapons like MGs?&nbsp; Just curious if this even makes sense, <BR>&gt; assuming an<BR>&gt; adequate power supply.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks<BR><BR>I'd probably require high-temperature superconductors and a really<BR>cool-looking heat sink, but no problems I can see. Could we increase<BR>efficiency by routing some of the electrons to the powersource for the cold<BR>junction elctron pump?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:01:20 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; " NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR><BR>HAHAHAHAHAHA ... excellent!<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:19:24 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR><BR>On Wed, 15 Nov 2000, james cooper wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In order to alleviate the US presidency dilemam, may I suggest that they both be<BR>&gt; appointed to a joint presidency, and share the oval office.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Don't laugh!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At a council meeting last night, on a 5 to 2 vote, our council passed a motion<BR>&gt; that will see the mayor's office set up with 2 desks, 2 chairs, computers, add<BR>&gt; infinitum so that they 'Councillors' can have room to host their constituents.<BR>&gt; Then they passed by the same 5 to 2 vote that the 'Mayor' would have to apply<BR>&gt; for specific times to have exclusive use of 'the office' to meet with<BR>&gt; delegations. A&nbsp; third motion that would see separate offices set up and aside<BR>&gt; for the 'Councillors' was voted down, amazingly by the same 5 to 2 vote.<BR>&gt; Welcome to the 'new democratic process' as envisioned by the enlightened.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anyone want to hazard a code number for Government in this case.<BR><BR>Hey...the ancient Romans had two Consuls, and the ancient Spartans had a<BR>dual hereditary kingship (if we wanted to follow the latter model, the<BR>kingships could run in the Kennedy and Bush families -- on second thought,<BR>however, that might not be the best model to follow).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:19:38 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR><BR>james cooper writes:<BR>&gt; In order to alleviate the US presidency dilemam, may I suggest that they<BR>&gt; both be appointed to a joint presidency, and share the oval office.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Don't laugh!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At a council meeting last night, on a 5 to 2 vote, our council passed a<BR>&gt; motion that will see the mayor's office set up with 2 desks, 2 chairs,<BR>&gt; computers, add infinitum so that they 'Councillors' can have room to host<BR>&gt; their constituents. Then they passed by the same 5 to 2 vote that the<BR>&gt; 'Mayor' would have to apply for specific times to have exclusive use of 'the<BR>&gt; office' to meet with delegations. A&nbsp; third motion that would see separate<BR>&gt; offices set up and aside for the 'Councillors' was voted down, amazingly by<BR>&gt; the same 5 to 2 vote. Welcome to the 'new democratic process' as envisioned<BR>&gt; by the enlightened. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anyone want to hazard a code number for Government in this case.<BR><BR>Probably 4 (representative democracy).&nbsp; Just one in which the legislative<BR>branch (the council) is stronger than the executive branch (the mayor).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:20:12 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>Locally the legal system is entirely well, a local matter. This means that<BR>there is no Imperium wide standard and that a lawyer, barrister, solicitor,<BR>etc. can not reasonably expect to practice away from his home world without<BR>extensive re-certification.<BR><BR>I would expect that worlds with trial by combat would be rather rare,<BR>otherwise every possible type of legal proceedings is fair game.<BR><BR>I would highly recommend<BR><BR>http://ptgptb.humbug.org.au/index.html<BR><BR>Issues # 9, 10 and 11 contain Mark J. Young's series on law systems in<BR>imaginary realms.<BR><BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 1:01 PM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Plot ideas<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Situations that call for legal skill include nearly all<BR>&gt; dealings in or<BR>&gt; &gt;with high-law societies.&nbsp; Accusations of criminal or civil wrongdoing<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As a lawyer, I think that the last thing I would want to play<BR>&gt; in Traveller<BR>&gt; would be a lawyer.&nbsp; It would be more exciting and interesting<BR>&gt; (for me) to<BR>&gt; play an accountant.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The foregoing to the contrary notwithstanding,<BR><BR>You certainly are a lawyer, aren't you? :)<BR><BR>it is possible<BR>&gt; to conceive of<BR>&gt; situations in which the PCs can encounter lawyers,<BR>&gt; impersonate lawyers, or<BR>&gt; be lawyers.&nbsp; I'll attempt on example of each.<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip 'Discovery'&gt;<BR>Goodone...a seed for an investigation scenario.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Impersonating lawyers:<BR>&gt; Lawyers may have certain rights, typically rights of access,<BR>&gt; that ordinary<BR>&gt; citizens do not.&nbsp; For example, even in the nominally classless United<BR>&gt; States, lawyers get a lot more assistance and information<BR>&gt; from court clerks<BR>&gt; than non-lawyers.&nbsp; In court, the only people who may make an<BR>&gt; argument, enter<BR>&gt; into a stipulation, or do many other things are lawyers and<BR>&gt; the parties<BR>&gt; themselves.&nbsp; I have seen judges instruct non-lawyer advocates<BR>&gt; to just sit<BR>&gt; down and stop talking.<BR><BR>In the British legal system we have two varieties of lawyers...solicitors<BR>(legal advisors and experts) and barristers (the guys who actually speak in<BR>court). To take a case to court you need both.<BR><BR>OB-Trav: Do you need Barristers? JTAS already has an article on Imperial Law<BR>proceedings, but what about locally?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:22:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Peltier cooled weapons<BR><BR>Did anyone else read "Peltier" as "Perrier?"<BR>That, at least, could explain the high costs<BR>of defense contracts...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:31:34 -0800<BR>From: james cooper &lt;tloql@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous) (sic)<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Probably 4 (representative democracy).&nbsp; Just one in which the legislative<BR>&gt; branch (the council) is stronger than the executive branch (the mayor).<BR><BR>The actual case is more like the situation from 'Mutiny on the Bounty'<BR><BR>But yes, there is a weak case of office abuse by the Mayor. It has more to do with<BR>individuals not being able to make an equitable compromise.<BR><BR>John P Raynor wrote:<BR><BR>Hey...the ancient Romans had two Consuls, and the ancient Spartans<BR>had a<BR>dual hereditary kingship (if we wanted to follow the latter model,<BR>the<BR>kingships could run in the Kennedy and Bush families -- on second<BR>thought,<BR>however, that might not be the best model to follow).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -<BR>J. Raynor<BR><BR>Thanks John, I was looking for the correct correlation of how far they are<BR>carrying democracy back.<BR><BR>Jim Cooper<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:40:31 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Meson Communications<BR><BR>I have a couple questions on Meson Communications and wanted to get the <BR>list's feedback.<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; How fast are they?&nbsp; Ex.&nbsp; I'm past Saturn and want to call someone on <BR>Earth, how long does the transmission take?<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; Is it a point to point communicator (like the laser) or is it a <BR>broadcast communicator (like a radio)?<BR><BR>3.&nbsp; Compared to a same TL transmitter unit, how large would a receive-only <BR>unit be?<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:43:06 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kurt Feltenberger [mailto:kurt@blazenet.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: 15 November 2000 18:41<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Meson Communications<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have a couple questions on Meson Communications and wanted <BR>&gt; to get the <BR>&gt; list's feedback.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 2.&nbsp; Is it a point to point communicator (like the laser) or is it a <BR>&gt; broadcast communicator (like a radio)?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Since the Meson Gun is PTP without a beam between the two points, I would<BR>assume the Meson communicator to be the same. Basically, the signal<BR>teleports to the reciever without having to cross the intervening space.<BR>Tricky to connect though...you'd probably have to use another comm system to<BR>get the coordinates of the reciever, unless the transmission was arranged in<BR>advance.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:43:56 -0000<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson said<BR>&gt;In the Oz part of the Commonwealth, we remember the fallen at 11 am on the<BR>11th<BR>&gt;of November with a minute's silence. It used to be two minutes - just shows<BR>the<BR>&gt;effect of our modern lifestyle on tradition, eh? This is the anniversary of<BR>the<BR>&gt;signing of the Treaty of Versailles at the end of WW1.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(Interesting that you picked "For The Fallen" from the Australian War<BR>Memorial's<BR>&gt;Anzac Day site!)<BR><BR>In the Uk we used to commemorate the fallen at 11am on the 11th November as<BR>well, though that was changed in the '80's, (I believe because it interfered<BR>with business, no prizes for guessing who suggested this idea).&nbsp; We still<BR>have a 2 minute silence here and I am glad to say that the British Legion's<BR>(ex serviceman's organisation) campaign to implement a voluntary 2 minute<BR>silence on the correct day (1100 11th/11th) is gaining great support.<BR>(Though my company does not support this idea and it entailed a swift<BR>argument with my senior manager for me to get outside at 1100 for my own 2<BR>mins of Remembrance).<BR><BR>I pulled the 'For the Fallen' link from the Australian War Memorial's Anzac<BR>Day site because this was the only place I could find it not being able to<BR>remember the title or the poet.<BR><BR>Ob Trav : This could be an example of customs still followed by military<BR>units in the Imperium and elsewhere.&nbsp; Undoubtedly there must be an<BR>equivalent Remembrance day in all the states of the Trav universe.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Specifically in TNE I hold a remembrance service throughout the Reformation<BR>Coalition on the anniversary of the Unveiling of the Lost 12 ships memorial<BR>each year.&nbsp; Of course the tradition of the toast 'Absent Friends' in TNE is<BR>very poignant and appropriate.<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Be wary of strong drink.&nbsp; It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and<BR>miss.<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:59:27 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Peltier cooled weapons<BR><BR>Oddly enough, a few years back, I did see a photo of a guy with his water<BR>cooled Lewis gun putting Perrier into the water jacket. :-)<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John P. Raynor<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:22 PM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: RE: Peltier cooled weapons<BR><BR><BR><BR>Did anyone else read "Peltier" as "Perrier?"<BR>That, at least, could explain the high costs<BR>of defense contracts...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:00:00 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: T4 Errata<BR><BR>At 18:32 14.11.00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Errata Installation Method for T4<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1) Burn all T4 books<BR>&gt;2) Buy GURPS:Traveller<BR>&gt;3) Game on<BR><BR>Aw, thats too harsh. Some of them were quite nice, despite their errors.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:31:23 -0800<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: BOOM ( _Shiva_-class Battleship )<BR><BR>&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: AuricTech Shipyards _Shiva_-class Battleship (FF&amp;S2) Was: Re: What<BR>in&nbsp; &gt;misjumping heck is going on here????<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;megasnip&gt;<BR>&gt;One final note:&nbsp; Those who (justifiably) quailed at the thought of a<BR>&gt;_Montana_ -class battleship streaking through the atmosphere at<BR>&gt;hypersonic speeds should be thoroughly dismayed at the idea of a _Shiva_<BR>&gt;doing the same.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Be afraid.&nbsp; Be very afraid.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;closes eyes, imagines....ick&gt;&nbsp; I'd think that the sonic boom would<BR>be classified as a "weapon of mass destruction" just by itself!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- --------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - It's not their fault.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:54:15 -0000<BR>From: "Richard Talbot" &lt;abbadon@abbadon.fsnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3292<BR><BR>Re:ACQ 15mm<BR><BR>Yes it is, BITS ran ACQ demos at Gencon UK 2000 without little problem using<BR>blown up (by photocopier!!!) standard Traveller deckplans and a large colour<BR>map of the "Shadows" adventure complex.<BR><BR>I supplied 15mm Laserburn and Traveller figs and they seem to work well<BR><BR>We did 2 ship boarding actions, a Doom style random shootout including<BR>randomly generated weapon powerups (with penguin included) and a 3- way team<BR>battle between Vargr, Aslan and Imperial Marines (on the Shadows Map).<BR>Everyone seemed to enjoy themselves and the 15mm figs didn't present any<BR>problems.<BR><BR>A worthwhile buy for Xmas though if you have access get the handouts and<BR>tables copied and laminated and get the players involved in the rules as it<BR>keeps the game flowing nice and fast.<BR><BR>Richard Talbot - Kincardine, Scotland - "Yes the place with the famous<BR>bridge"<BR>Personal HomePage: http://www.abbadon.org.uk<BR>Junk email: abbadon@talk21.com<BR>Personal email: salesatancienttomes.co.uk<BR>ICQ#: 71762983 - Your BITS need you - JOIN NOW!!!!! - www.bits.org.uk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:56:36 -0600<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR><BR>OK folks, I'm writing the filler stuff to go in the white spaces around the<BR>edge of the Beowulf, and I have GREAT need to know anything specific we've<BR>ever said about the Beowulf class: When first designed, who did it, etc.<BR>Beowulf, IIRC, is the ship owned by the Jamisons (father and son), who were<BR>operating in the spinward shortly before the 5th frontier war -- I need to<BR>know if we ever said anything else about the ship . . .<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:35:18 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Gregory Carl Kettler &lt;gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR><BR>I'd like to add a related question that's been bugging me for a while:<BR>did everything turn out all right after the Beowulf sent out its famous<BR>distress broadcast?&nbsp; I know someone else sent a response indicating "help<BR>is on the way," but did they get there in time?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:48:42 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR><BR>On Wed, 15 Nov 2000, Gregory Carl Kettler wrote:<BR>&gt; I'd like to add a related question that's been bugging me for a while:<BR>&gt; did everything turn out all right after the Beowulf sent out its famous<BR>&gt; distress broadcast?&nbsp; I know someone else sent a response indicating "help<BR>&gt; is on the way," but did they get there in time?<BR><BR>Uh...isn't the "Beowulf" mentioned in one of the adventure seeds in the<BR>"T4" supplement entitled "Imperial Squadrons?"&nbsp; On the other hand, it's<BR>entirely possible that there's more than one ship with that name...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:45:53 -0800<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Viji-class Capitulation Cruiser<BR><BR>A casual comment on the CT-starships list regarding the best way to design a <BR>ship intended to meet an opponent of unknown TL provoked this High Guard <BR>design. You FFS-using amateurs with your million-ton dreadnoughts should get <BR>your note-pads ready and take a lesson in starship design. I present to you:<BR><BR>Viji-class Capitulation Cruiser<BR><BR>CC-P1244E3-490004-80000-0 MCr 147,544.690 50Kt<BR>bbear&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; G 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 372 crew<BR>batt&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; L 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; TL 11<BR>cargo=2247 fuel=12000 EP=2000 agility=2 troops=50<BR><BR>Craft: 5x 50-ton cutter<BR>Fuel treatment: scoops, purification<BR>Backups: 1x 4G maneuver, 1x Jump-2, 1x Model/5fib, 1x Bridge<BR><BR>A minor non-human race known as the Kulaka arose somewhere in the coreward <BR>fringes of what are now considered the Vargr extents. It is not known exactly <BR>how they reached their current level of technology, but they admit not having <BR>developed it independently. At some point, a TL13 Vargr raiding squadron <BR>entered their system and destroyed the bulk of their TL10 fleet. After the <BR>raiders departed, the Kulaka marshaled all their most advanced technology <BR>and monetary resources to build the one-of-a-kind Viji.<BR><BR>Perhaps one of the most beautiful ships of its size ever constructed, the <BR>wedge-shaped hull of the Viji was actually hand-carved of wood by thousands <BR>of artisans, armor being applied over it in a technique never bothered with <BR>before or since. Enormous relief sculptures of Kulaka in submission postures,<BR>offering up platters of gemstones and other valuables, adorn the flanks of <BR>the ship. <BR><BR>Only defensive batteries were installed - repulsors, sandcasters, and beam <BR>lasers. Backups of all critical systems were provided, in order to ensure <BR>that the Viji would survive long enough to deliver her message. In addition <BR>to the crew and ship's troops, quarters for 100 ceremonial marines and <BR>oversized suites for 100 diplomats, politicians, and observers are provided.<BR><BR>The cargo hold carried over 2000 displacement tons of valuable luxury goods.<BR>Additionally, 2000 tons of space were devoted to lounges, bars, microparks, <BR>chapels, and the Great Ceremonial Hall. <BR><BR>The unusual construction of the ship, and the luxurious interior appointments,<BR>are estimated to have added MCr100,000 to the cost of the ship.<BR><BR>On her maiden voyage, the Viji jumped to the assumed home of the raiding <BR>fleet. In this system was the band of Vargr raiders, whose entire fleet <BR>consisted of about five thousand tons worth of warships. Both sides quickly<BR>and desperately tried to make contact, each fearing that the other side would <BR>open fire. With the help of their more advanced computers, the Vargr were able <BR>to translate the Viji's message first, and the raiders bemusedly accepted her <BR>surrender, along with the contents of her holds.<BR><BR>By all accounts, the Ceremony of Surrender was a marvel of decorum and <BR>dignity on everyone's part, though one presumes the Vargr had some difficulty<BR>maintaining straight faces. Over a period of several days, a treaty was <BR>composed which appeared to satisfy everyone concerned; the Vargr raiders<BR>demanded surprisingly little from the Kulaka, who were very happy to<BR>comply. <BR><BR>The Viji has, ever since, remained in orbit over the Kulakan homeworld,<BR>manned by a rotating skeleton crew, holds full of artworks and jewelry, <BR>ready to give them up to the next passing Vargr ship -- which occurs <BR>approximately every other month. The cruiser and her complement of <BR>shuttlecraft are the only remaining ships fielded by the Kulaka.<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3293<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, November 15 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3294<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Wlhen Governments Go Bad<BR>Forine's Scout/Assault ship<BR>FF&amp;S Fission Inquiry<BR>NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR>Re: FF&amp;S Fission Inquiry<BR>OT: RE: Electoral College<BR>Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>GT Sector Books<BR>Re: Forine's Scout/Assault ship<BR>Re: No Carrier<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3291<BR>Re:Hic Haec Hoc<BR>Re: Forine's Scout/Assault ship<BR>Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR>Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3293<BR>RE: Meson Communications<BR>Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:15:40 -0600<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Wlhen Governments Go Bad<BR><BR>The following links give a good overview of the situation in<BR>the U.S. resulting from the election problems.<BR><BR>http://www.theonion.com/onion3641/florida_cut_off.html<BR>http://www.theonion.com/onion3641/bush_executes_democrats.html<BR>http://www.theonion.com/onion3641/nation_plunges_into_chaos.html<BR>http://www.theonion.com/onion3641/nbc_report_of_gore_dead.html<BR>http://www.theonion.com/onion3641/clinton_president_for_life.html<BR>http://www.theonion.com/onion3641/serbia_deploys_forces.html<BR><BR><BR>Sad. Very sad.<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; And *great* material to inform a group of PCs they're<BR>in absolutely the wrong place at the wrong time.<BR><BR>David Smart<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:08:29 -0600<BR>From: tim@premier.net<BR>Subject: Forine's Scout/Assault ship<BR><BR>&lt;FontFamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Times New Roman&lt;/param&gt;Ok ok we have seen the really big ships so as along time advocate of the <BR>small ships I want to introduce the Strausz.&nbsp; This ship is actually the <BR>current home for 5 PCs in my game.&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>While the big bad Imperium can afford an independent Scout fleet to <BR>search out new worlds, the poor Forine under Imperium trade sanctions <BR>can not afford such a luxury.&nbsp; The Forine Scouts consequently pull <BR>double duty, in peacetime they perform standard scout duties.&nbsp; In <BR>wartime the Scouts carry out several functions: running of long range <BR>communications, screening forces, and clandestine insertion of raiding <BR>forces.<BR><BR><BR>It is for these missions that the Strausz class scout ship is designed.&nbsp; Its <BR>size (1.5 times that of Imperial Scout ships) allows it to carry heavier <BR>weapons, more cargo, equipment and men.&nbsp; Its draw back it that it is <BR>manufactured using tech level 11/12 while most other worlds use tech <BR>level 15.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&lt;FontFamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Arial&lt;/param&gt;&lt;smaller&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>&lt;bigger&gt;Class: &lt;FontFamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Times New Roman&lt;/param&gt;Strausz<BR>&lt;FontFamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Arial&lt;/param&gt;Type: Forine Scout/Assault Ship<BR><BR><BR>Tons: 250std ( SL Needle Fast Subsonic )&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>Volume: 3500m3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;FontFamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Times New Roman&lt;/param&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;FontFamily&gt;&lt;param&gt;Arial&lt;/param&gt;<BR><BR>Mass (L/C): 3951t/3613t&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>Dimensions: 110.2m x 11.1m x 11.1m&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>Size: 8<BR><BR>Crew. 7/10<BR><BR>Troops/Science 20<BR><BR>Cargo; 20std<BR><BR>Cost: 685.77 MC<BR><BR>Maintenance Points: 129<BR><BR>Tech Level: 12 (11/12)<BR><BR><BR>Electronics<BR><BR>Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 1xFltComp (CM:0.7 <BR>CP:1.43). 3xComp (CM:1.0 CP:1.0). 1xFibComp (CM:0.7 CP:1.43). <BR>Terrain following sensors (TF:450, NOE:150). Bridge.<BR><BR>Communications: 1xRadio Rec. (500,000km, 0.02MW). 1xRadio <BR>(500,000km, 0.17MW). 1xLaser (500,000km, 0MW). <BR><BR>Sensors: 1xPas. Scanner (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xPas. Tracker <BR>(12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1xAEMS <BR>(8, 0.06MW). 1xLIDAR (13.5 [50kkm], 0.1MW).<BR><BR>Science<BR><BR>ECM (/Ar: 0&nbsp; [11]): 1xRadio Jammer (5km, 0MW). 1xDecp. <BR>Jammer (11, 0.78MW). 1xPas. Jammer (13, 0.03MW). <BR><BR>Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:-1 (-1 at 295MW, -1.5 at 40MW), Act:-0.5, <BR>Neu:0, Grav:1<BR><BR><BR>Weaponry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>1xBeam Master Fire Directors (0MW 5,000km)&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>2xTurret (+0) 1/0-0-0-0 [1,50/11-5-3-1] (LR)&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>1xHeavy Laser Bay (+4) 1/2-0-0-0 [1,100/24-12-6-3] (LR)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>Performance<BR><BR>2 Jump (25std/pc fuel)<BR><BR>2.7/2.9 Maneuver (/Thruster:263MW)<BR><BR>800kph/800kph Atmosphere (/Crus:600kph/600kph)<BR><BR>6 Power<BR><BR>54.3 Fuel(/Purif:100,1MW)<BR><BR>40 Life Sup. (/TySt,NM/St)<BR><BR>2 G-Comp(/G Tanks)<BR><BR>4 Sandcasters (Av:4/Cans 10)<BR><BR>1 Damper Turrets (2MW/Rng 3000km0)<BR><BR>0[10] Armor 12 Structure<BR><BR>54.3 Fuel(/Purif:100,1MW)<BR><BR>40 Life Sup. (/TySt,NM/St)<BR><BR>2 G-Comp(/G Tanks)<BR><BR>4 Sandcasters (Av:4/Cans 10)<BR><BR>1 Damper Turrets (2MW/Rng 3000km0)<BR><BR>0[10] Armor 12 Structure<BR><BR><BR>Features<BR><BR>3xAirlock<BR><BR>1xArmory (0.11std ea.)<BR><BR>1xShip's locker (0.13std ea.)<BR><BR>1xTroop Room(10std ea.)<BR><BR>1xMinHgr (1std, 0 hatches)<BR><BR>1X Ordinary Galley<BR><BR>1X Full Galley<BR><BR>5X Cap Lnchr (2 rdy cap ea.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Crew<BR><BR>2xMnvr. 1xElec.&nbsp; 3xEngr.&nbsp; 3xGunn. 1xCmd.<BR><BR>20X troops or other personal<BR><BR><BR>Craft<BR><BR>Any up to 20 tons.<BR><BR>Examples: Grav Assault craft, 4 Air Rafts, 2 ATVs<BR><BR><BR>&lt;nofill&gt;<BR>Tim Reynolds<BR>tim@premier.net <BR>225-334-5063<BR>www.premier.net/~tim<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through<BR>the air, invisible<BR>And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.<BR>In that case, the prize went to the best dancer<BR>Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:03:09 -0800<BR>From: "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>Subject: FF&amp;S Fission Inquiry<BR><BR>Greets,<BR><BR>I was going through FF&amp;S(T4) and noticed that the tech table for Fission<BR>power plants ends at TL 8, I assume because most people abandon fission<BR>for fusion when the technology becomes available.&nbsp; Has anyone done any<BR>work to extend this table into the higher tech levels?<BR><BR>I'm playing with the idea of building a (semi) heretical fission powered<BR>jump capable warcraft.&nbsp; It looks like I should be and to fit in a<BR>suitable size fission pile to provide plenty of power, although the<BR>radiator requirments for fission plants stay high.&nbsp; I'm envisioning&nbsp; a<BR>varaint jump drive that allows for charging off the fission plant<BR>(Similar to the solar powered unit from Annic Nova).&nbsp; Without the need<BR>for all that fuel tankage I should be able to pack in some nifty<BR>surprises.<BR><BR>I realise that by building a ship that doesn't need a fusion plant I m<BR>opening up the way to jump projectors.&nbsp; It's a risk I am willing to<BR>take.&nbsp; And I've never quite liked that filling the jump bubble with<BR>hydrogen deal myself.<BR><BR>G.D.D.<BR>Thing under the stairs,<BR>Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>===========================<BR>"I love power. But it is as an artist that I love it. I love it as a<BR>musician loves his violin, to draw out its sounds and chords and<BR>harmonies." - Napoleon Bonaparte<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:02:16 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR><BR>&gt; To the citizens of the United States of America, In the<BR>&gt; light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and<BR>&gt; thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the<BR>&gt; revocation of your independence, effective today.<BR>&gt; Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume<BR>&gt; monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and<BR>&gt; other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy.<BR>&gt; Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for<BR>&gt; the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware<BR>&gt; that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a<BR>&gt; minister for America without the need for further<BR>&gt; elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A<BR>&gt; questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine<BR>&gt; whether any of you noticed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency,<BR>&gt; the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English<BR>&gt; Dictionary.<BR>&gt; Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation<BR>&gt; guide. You will be amazed at just how incorrectly you<BR>&gt; have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should raise<BR>&gt; your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up<BR>&gt; "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words<BR>&gt; interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you<BR>&gt; know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of<BR>&gt; communication. Look up "interspersed".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let<BR>&gt; Microsoft know on your behalf.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 3. You should learn to distinguish the English and<BR>&gt; Australian accents. It really isn't that hard.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English<BR>&gt; actors as the good guys.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 5. You should relearn your original national<BR>&gt; anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully<BR>&gt; carrying out task 1. We would not want you<BR>&gt; to get confused and give up half way through.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 6. You should stop playing American "football". There is<BR>&gt; only one kind of football. What you refer to as<BR>&gt; American "football" is not a very good game. The<BR>&gt; 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world<BR>&gt; outside your borders may have noticed that no one else<BR>&gt; plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed<BR>&gt; to play it, and should instead play proper football.<BR>&gt; Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It<BR>&gt; is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in<BR>&gt; time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to<BR>&gt; American "football", but does not involve stopping for a<BR>&gt; rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar<BR>&gt; body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get<BR>&gt; together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using<BR>&gt; nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The<BR>&gt; 98.85% of you who were not aware that there<BR>&gt; is a world outside your borders should count yourselves<BR>&gt; lucky. The Russians have never been the bad<BR>&gt; guys. "Merde" is French for "shit".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th<BR>&gt; will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will<BR>&gt; be called "Indecisive Day".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap<BR>&gt; and it is for your own good.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us<BR>&gt; bonkers for almost forty years.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thank you for your cooperation.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:23:06 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: FF&amp;S Fission Inquiry<BR><BR>Why am I having visions of Klingons, using dirty power plants with minimal<BR>shielding (that stuff is for sissies), strip-mining worlds for fissionables,<BR>and dumping spent fuel rods indiscriminately? I want to hear more stories<BR>about the heroic crew of the Far Trader Chernobyl!<BR><BR>- -Crusty<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm playing with the idea of building a (semi) heretical fission powered<BR>&gt; jump capable warcraft.&nbsp; It looks like I should be and to fit in a<BR>&gt; suitable size fission pile to provide plenty of power, although the<BR>&gt; radiator requirments for fission plants stay high.&nbsp; I'm envisioning&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; varaint jump drive that allows for charging off the fission plant<BR>&gt; (Similar to the solar powered unit from Annic Nova).&nbsp; Without the need<BR>&gt; for all that fuel tankage I should be able to pack in some nifty<BR>&gt; surprises.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:31:56 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: OT: RE: Electoral College<BR><BR>On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:57:17 -0500 (EST), "Terry Carlino"<BR>&lt;carlino@home.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;One slight correction. The constitution of the United States does not<BR>&gt;require that Electors be chosen by election, only that they be selected by<BR>&gt;the states, using whatever method the state chooses.&nbsp; It is true that all of<BR>&gt;the states have always chosen to select Electors via the ballot, but this is<BR>&gt;not required by the constitution. Indeed all states but one use winner take<BR>&gt;all schemes in which the person with the most votes gets all of the<BR>&gt;Electors. This is also not required and Maine chooses their Electors by<BR>&gt;congressional district (just like their congressmen.)<BR><BR>Actually, I think it was only since 1900 that South Carolina started<BR>selection by ballot; prior to that, the electors were selected by the state<BR>legislature.<BR><BR>&gt;Obtrav: Not much. Importance to gaming? Quite a bit. In a parallel world<BR>&gt;campaign (like Sliders campaign or a GURPS CrossTime game) you could start<BR>&gt;with the same constitution and end up with a totally different U.S.<BR>&gt;government. My ideas are so plentiful that rather than presenting it here<BR>&gt;(Where it's totally OT), I think I'll write it up for Pyramid.<BR><BR>If they rejected it, copy me on it; I'd be interested in seeing it just on<BR>general principles.<BR><BR>ObVagueConnectionToTrav: Has anyone read the Expanding the UWP article that<BR>Glenn Grant and I worked up?&nbsp; Does anyone have any comments?<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:14:16 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>Terry Carlino wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anybody ever use the toilet in a submarine?<BR><BR>&lt;tongue-in-cheek&gt;<BR><BR>You mean they have toilets on submarines?<BR><BR>I always thought that sub crews simply relieved themselves at their<BR>stations, which practice is reflected in the nautical terms "poop deck"<BR>and "pigboat."<BR><BR>&lt;/tongue-in-cheek&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:14:19 EST<BR>From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>Subject: GT Sector Books<BR><BR>I saw on www.sjgames.com/gurps on the wish list sector....That SJG is looking <BR>for sector book authors...does anyone know if any of the sectors have been <BR>contracted for..I'd love to see a Trojan Reach book or Antares....<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:23:47 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Forine's Scout/Assault ship<BR><BR>tim@premier.net wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ok ok we have seen the really big ships so as along time advocate of the small ships I want to introduce the Strausz. This ship is actually the current home for 5 PCs in my game.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Not bad, except for two things:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; The minimum hull armor rating under FF&amp;S2 is 20, not 10.&nbsp; Meeting<BR>this minimum requirement will adversely impact the performance of this<BR>ship class.&nbsp; Changing the configuration to a more compact design (such<BR>as Medium [or even Long] Rounded Cylinder) will ameliorate [yes, I'm in<BR>the 2.15% ;-)] the effect of adding the needed hull armor.<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; As occasionally happens, you failed to post in plain text, thus<BR>adding extra garbage to the digest version.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:56:10 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: No Carrier<BR><BR>&lt;modem connected&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; That's right -- H-A-S-T-<BR><BR>E-R-N<BR><BR>Hastern! Isn't that . . . uh . . . interesting . . . er . . .<BR><BR>Well . . . that's how he want you to _think_ it's spelled. <BR><BR>LK(fnord)W<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:58:37 -0600<BR>From: Andy Holzrichter &lt;jhereg@southwind.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3291<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; To the citizens of the United States of America,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus<BR>&gt;to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; independence, effective today.<BR><BR>Now if there was anything that would get a bunch of Americans together this <BR>would be it. ( At least long enough to get rid of the interloper. &lt;g&gt;) <BR>Please appoint multiple ministers, or have a clear line of command.&nbsp; I <BR>don't think they will last long.<BR><BR><BR><BR>- - Copyright  2000 by Andy Holzrichter<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:01:24 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re:Hic Haec Hoc<BR><BR>Hastur, Hastern, Hastert -- all the same -- it spells <BR><BR>Hmmmm. What does it spell?<BR><BR>&lt;modem reports no carrier&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:42:06 -0600<BR>From: tim@premier.net<BR>Subject: Re: Forine's Scout/Assault ship<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Ok ok we have seen the really big ships so as along time advocate of the small ships I want to introduce the Strausz. This ship is actually the current home for 5 PCs in my game.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not bad, except for two things:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1.&nbsp; The minimum hull armor rating under FF&amp;S2 is 20, not 10.&nbsp; Meeting<BR>&gt; this minimum requirement will adversely impact the performance of this<BR>&gt; ship class.&nbsp; Changing the configuration to a more compact design (such<BR>&gt; as Medium [or even Long] Rounded Cylinder) will ameliorate [yes, I'm in<BR>&gt; the 2.15% ;-)] the effect of adding the needed hull armor.<BR>&gt; <BR>Fixed it but it did not require a reconfiguration of the hull.<BR>I just shrank the troop room,&nbsp; hey their not scouts so who cares <BR>And they are probably men which upserts the all women Forine <BR>Scout force. :&nbsp; )<BR><BR><BR>&gt; 2.&nbsp; As occasionally happens, you failed to post in plain text, thus<BR>&gt; adding extra garbage to the digest version.<BR>&gt; <BR>Sorry to all about this.&nbsp; If anyone wants it without the garbage and <BR>the right armour just let me know.<BR>Tim Reynolds<BR>tim@premier.net <BR>225-334-5063<BR>www.premier.net/~tim<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through<BR>the air, invisible<BR>And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.<BR>In that case, the prize went to the best dancer<BR>Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:34:30 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR><BR>on 11/15/00 3:02 PM, Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann at volker@greimann.de wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; To the citizens of the United States of America, In the<BR>&gt;&gt; light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and<BR>&gt;&gt; thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the<BR>&gt;&gt; revocation of your independence, effective today.<BR>&gt;&gt; Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume<BR>&gt;&gt; monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and<BR>&gt;&gt; other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy.<BR>&gt;&gt; Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for<BR>&gt;&gt; the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware<BR>&gt;&gt; that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a<BR>&gt;&gt; minister for America without the need for further<BR>&gt;&gt; elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A<BR>&gt;&gt; questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine<BR>&gt;&gt; whether any of you noticed.<BR>[snip]<BR><BR>To which I can only reply: come on down, and we will explain the second<BR>amendment to you. We have already created a tagging system for lobsterbacks,<BR>so that they won't be hunted out in one season.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>- --<BR>"When the pin is out, Mr. Grenade is no longer our friend."<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:48:30 -0800<BR>From: Bill &lt;beast@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE<BR><BR>&gt;on 11/15/00 3:02 PM, Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann at volker@greimann.de wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; To the citizens of the United States of America, In the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; revocation of your independence, effective today.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; minister for America without the need for further<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; whether any of you noticed.<BR>&gt;[snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;To which I can only reply: come on down, and we will explain the second<BR>&gt;amendment to you. We have already created a tagging system for lobsterbacks,<BR>&gt;so that they won't be hunted out in one season.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Tod<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;"When the pin is out, Mr. Grenade is no longer our friend."<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;Tod L Glenn<BR>&gt;webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>&gt;http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>&gt;http://www.solsec.org<BR>&gt;http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>&gt;http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>Pass the Ammo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:15:10 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3293<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:56:36 -0600<BR>&gt;From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Beowulf, IIRC, is the ship owned by the Jamisons (father and son), who were<BR>&gt;operating in the spinward shortly before the 5th frontier war -- I need to<BR>&gt;know if we ever said anything else about the ship . . .<BR><BR>I'm reading this in digest, so if someone else has answered already I<BR>apologize.<BR><BR>Jamison Factors owns the far trader /Empress Nicolle/, not /Beowulf/ (Book<BR>7, p.11). /Empress Nicolle/ is a type A2, /Empress Marava/-class (Adv. 3,<BR>p. 5, et al.).<BR><BR>(I never quite understood how /Beowulf/ went from being just a free trader<BR>in distress to being the ship-of-class, but that's just quibbling.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:21:07 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR><BR>Nooo... a meson gun is a 'beam' weapon - the 'beam' does not teleport - it<BR>just does not interact with normal matter at all. (it is made up of Mesons<BR>after all, and they are really really really tiny).<BR><BR>A meson comm is works like a Laser - in that you need to point it at the<BR>'target'. That is, the sender has to point it at the target.<BR><BR>A recive only meson comm... hmmm... Lemme look...at .5KL I would just use a<BR>TL-15 range 300 Meson Comm.. that is pretty small :)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2.&nbsp; Is it a point to point communicator (like the laser) or is it a<BR>&gt; broadcast communicator (like a radio)?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Since the Meson Gun is PTP without a beam between the two points, I would<BR>assume the Meson communicator to be the same. Basically, the signal<BR>teleports to the reciever without having to cross the intervening space.<BR>Tricky to connect though...you'd probably have to use another comm system to<BR>get the coordinates of the reciever, unless the transmission was arranged in<BR>advance.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:31:34 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR><BR>That's what Marc calls it at HTTP://members.aol.com/Traveller/T010-00.html<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Book questions (very, very long)<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:41:57 -0000<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt;From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The Regency<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Set around what would have been the year 1200, this setting depicts<BR>&gt;life<BR>&gt; &gt; after the devastation caused by a computer virus that crippled the<BR>&gt;warring<BR>&gt; &gt; factions and drove civilization back into the Spinward Marches and<BR>&gt;Deneb<BR>&gt; &gt; sectors. The main strongholds of mankind are the Regency and the<BR>&gt;Reformation<BR>&gt; &gt; Coalition, and the Zhodani Consulate.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't own this, but it sounds cool (I'm a<BR>&gt; &gt; pocket-empires-struggling-to-rebuild-civilization kind of guy).<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the milieu detailed for TNE.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Better to call it The New Era, as most of the setting is not The Regency<BR>&gt;(only 2 Regency supplements compared to 5-6 Reformation Coalition<BR>&gt;ones...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Matt<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3294<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (rly-yh01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.33]) by air-yh04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:36:55 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:36:20 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA42647;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:32:20 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:32:10 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA42613<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:32:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:32:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011160232.VAA42613@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3294<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3295</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/15/00 10:56:34 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, November 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3295<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: GT Sector Books<BR>Re: T4 Errata<BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>Re: T4 Errata<BR>More Traveller Jobs--Merchant<BR>cybernetics<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR>Re: Andromeda<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR>Re: Super Dreadnaught arms race [ship design, long]<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re: Meson Communications<BR>Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humourous) (sic)<BR>Re: Couple of Things<BR>Re: Sector Books<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:34:13 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Sector Books<BR><BR>I don't even play GT, but if they'd do a book on the Core sector, I'd <BR>probably get it in a hurry.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR>&gt;I saw on www.sjgames.com/gurps on the wish list sector....That SJG is <BR>&gt;looking<BR>&gt;for sector book authors...does anyone know if any of the sectors have been<BR>&gt;contracted for..I'd love to see a Trojan Reach book or Antares....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Mike<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:50:02<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR><BR>At 05:10 PM 11/15/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/t4.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Something along those lines, yes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BTW, does the "E" in your name stand for "Emperor Penguin" ?<BR><BR>Edward, actually.&nbsp; But the fun part of my name is "Douglas."&nbsp; All ther<BR>males in our family have Douglas in their name, going back a few<BR>generations.&nbsp; Craig Douglas Berry is my brother, Peter John Douglas Berry<BR>my father, Edward Douglas Berry my grandfather...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:58:05 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 9:29 AM<BR>Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On Wed, 15 Nov 2000, Matt Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; There are two different tables for Goverment Type in TNE.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In the 'civilised' one it's as per traditional traveller, in the 'wilds'<BR>&gt; &gt; one it has TED's and other uniquely 'wild' Government Types. It is in<BR>&gt; &gt; this 'wilds' table that TED's are #6...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ugh...what a horrifying kludge, particularly since I suspect that who is<BR>&gt; "civilized" and who is living "out in the wilds" would often be a matter<BR>&gt; of opinion.&nbsp; How big does a region with regular interstellar travel have<BR>&gt; to be before one can safely call it a pocket of "civilization?"&nbsp; I can<BR>&gt; understand wanting to change the meaning of "No. 6" from "Captive<BR>&gt; Government" to something else (since "out in the wilds" interstellar<BR>&gt; travel is usually too risky and irregular for colonial governments to<BR>&gt; be maintained), but "Technologically Elevated Dictatorship" is such a<BR>&gt; vaguely defined catagory.&nbsp; In "the wilds," I'd say that "who controls<BR>&gt; the high technology" is so important that it has SOME influence over<BR>&gt; EVERY government, even in Participatory Democracies ("Vote for Bob on<BR>&gt; Tuesday, or he might not fix your holo-vision console on Wednesday...")<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; True, any group or person in control of high technology would have a great<BR>influence in the workings of a world if they wished, but that is still not<BR>the same as a TED. By definition, a TED must maintain his government by the<BR>threat, or percieved threat of attack by high tech weapons.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "If the artifact is some sort of weapon, it allows domination and<BR>exploitation of those who do not have similarly advanced means of defense.<BR>The Reformation Coalition has adopted the term Technologically Elevated<BR>Dictator (TED) to describe societies in which a ruler or ruling class holds<BR>power through use of such artifacts." TNE Rulebook, pg. 95<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:59:38 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR><BR>On 15 Nov 2000, at 18:50, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 05:10 PM 11/15/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/t4.html<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Something along those lines, yes.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;BTW, does the "E" in your name stand for "Emperor Penguin" ?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Edward, actually.&nbsp; But the fun part of my name is "Douglas."&nbsp; All ther<BR>&gt; males in our family have Douglas in their name, going back a few<BR>&gt; generations.&nbsp; Craig Douglas Berry is my brother, Peter John Douglas Berry<BR>&gt; my father, Edward Douglas Berry my grandfather...<BR><BR>I have a name like that, too.<BR><BR>I'm George thomas Rupert Boleyn, known as 'Rupert', my father is George Stephen <BR>Boleyn, knwon as Stephen, my grandfather was simply George Boleyn (AFAIK), and <BR>so it goes for at least another two generations.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Rupert Boleyn<BR>"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:00:35 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: More Traveller Jobs--Merchant<BR><BR>Merchant<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; There are a couple of skills that fall under this category, but I've <BR>always found them hard to distinguish.&nbsp; I'm following the lead of GT in <BR>combining them into one "merchant" skill.&nbsp; MTs descriptions of&nbsp; Trader and <BR>Broker skill are hard to tell apart.&nbsp; TNE uses Marketing and Bargain, and T4&nbsp; <BR>uses Trader and Broker in about the same way<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In short, this skill includes the ability to make or buy things and <BR>sell them for a profit.&nbsp; It includes the ability to negotiate and bargain and <BR>a knowledge of what things are worth on the market, as well as a knowledge of <BR>who the buyers or sellers are, and how and where to find them.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Many people specialize in one aspect or other of this skill.&nbsp; Some <BR>manufacture and sell a product, some sell what others have made, some <BR>specialize in buying for other users, some are brokers who do both buying and <BR>selling,&nbsp; while others simply put buyers and sellers together.&nbsp; This category <BR>includes retailers and wholesalers. Most businessmen specialize in a <BR>particular product or service.<BR><BR>Related jobs<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Business leaders. Those who can add leadership to business skill are <BR>found at the top or at least in the upper ranks of businesses and corporation <BR>or near the top of businesses and corporations.&nbsp; Generally, some leadership <BR>skill greater than the default is needed for a business to have employees.&nbsp; <BR>Those without leadership skill are more likely to be salesmen and clerks.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Business administrators.&nbsp; Those who can add administrative skills to <BR>business can handle the larger and more complex businesses.&nbsp; Those who can <BR>add leadership as well are the executives and entrepreneurs: Those without it <BR>are usually accountants at best.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Dealers in rights and contracts.&nbsp; Any business that deals with legally <BR>enforceable rights or contracts, and especially those who deal in rights and <BR>contract that can be assigned and transferred, needs to add legal skill in <BR>order to be successful.&nbsp; These include the commercial freight brokers <BR>described in GT: Starports, but they might also include stockbrokers and the <BR>like.<BR>Another possibility would be directors of law firms, those who set the rates, <BR>but often these tend to start out as lawyers and acquire the business skill <BR>later rather than the other way around.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Commercial&nbsp; instructor.&nbsp; Addition of instruction to business skill allows <BR>one to run a school for a profit, or at least to minimize expenses.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Arms dealer.&nbsp; An effective arms dealer, whether it is small arms or heavy <BR>military supplies, must have a good product knowledge, and be capable of <BR>demonstrating proper use of the weapon. They should also know something of <BR>the technical skill of armory.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Art dealers and brokers.&nbsp; These people need to be familiar with what will <BR>and won't sell, and for how much.&nbsp; These jobs&nbsp; may range from showmen (such <BR>as PT Barnum) through business managers for commercial studios to publishers. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Medical business.&nbsp; Generally, these are business managers for hospitals, <BR>health care firms, and the like.&nbsp; As with lawyers, these are more likely to <BR>start with medical skill and add the business knowledge later, but the other <BR>case does occasionally happen.&nbsp; More often, however, they tend to be dealers <BR>in medical equipment and supplies.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Dealers/Broker.&nbsp; Those can add some technical skill to their business <BR>knowledge can be&nbsp; effective as retailers, wholesalers, and brokers.&nbsp; For <BR>instance, Agricultural commodities brokers need to know something of farming; <BR>those who sell outdoor equipment need to know something of survival; Real <BR>estate brokers and agents need to know something of construction; starship <BR>brokers need starship architecture; Electronic equipment dealers need to know <BR>some electronics; computer software publishers and hardware retailers need to <BR>have computer skills; and so forth.<BR>Those who are familiar with communication may be commercial broadcasters or <BR>even telemarketers&nbsp; (The employers, that is: the ones who actually do the <BR>calling and read the spiels are usually unskilled labor.)&nbsp; This category also <BR>includes dealers and brokers of ground vehicles, grav vehicles, watercraft, <BR>aircraft, and spacecraft.&nbsp; There are also hotel and restaurant owners and <BR>operators, who need steward skill.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Trader.&nbsp; Most of this breed work for the big freight lines, but what true <BR>Traveller wants to be one of those?&nbsp; Why not, instead, work for the <BR>mortgageholder on your very own starship,&nbsp; risking life, limb, everything you <BR>own,&nbsp; and the wrath of all and sundry trying to make a profit where few have <BR>gone before, by dealing in speculative cargo?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The social skills of carousing, fast-talk, diplomacy, persuasion,&nbsp; <BR>intimidation, interrogation,&nbsp; invterviewing, and language skills are useful, <BR>more or less, to every businessman, and may help make (or break) a deal.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Professional Criminal/Security&nbsp; If you're not the one trying to make a <BR>dishonest credit by means of&nbsp; burglary, bribery, forgery, or gambling,&nbsp; then <BR>you may be interested in stopping the ones who are, or even catching them, <BR>with those plus investigative and forensic skills.&nbsp; But&nbsp; real businessmen <BR>with criminal minds and their natural enemies in law enforcement want to know <BR>who's buying and selling where and what they shouldn't, and that means <BR>streetwise skill. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Business developer.&nbsp; The businessman who can add survey and mapping, <BR>observation, investigative, and research skills is in an excellent position <BR>to see what others miss.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Innovator.&nbsp; It's one thing to make a new discovery in science: it's <BR>something else again to turn it into a profit.&nbsp; Those who can are primarily <BR>businessman who speak the language of science.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sports owners and promoters.&nbsp; Generally, these aren't the athletes <BR>themselves, but they do know what people will pay to see or pay to sponsor.<BR><BR>Plot ideas<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; There are more possible plot ideas based around merchant skill than I can <BR>begin to list, so I'm not going to.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:05:52 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: cybernetics<BR><BR>Because Traveller canon takes such a dim view of cybernetics, I have been<BR>able to find only limited amounts of reliable information concerning their<BR>capabilities, costs, limitations, and so on. Any thoughts?<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:29:00 -0600<BR>From: tim@premier.net<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>&gt; Because Traveller canon takes such a dim view of cybernetics, I have been<BR>&gt; able to find only limited amounts of reliable information concerning their<BR>&gt; capabilities, costs, limitations, and so on. Any thoughts?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>Well one thing you can do is you GDW's Dark Conspiracy rules on <BR>cybernetics then convert it into TNE or Mega Traveller which <BR>everyone used the GDW House system.&nbsp; From there you can can <BR>convert it to any game.&nbsp; You can do the same with GURPS cyper <BR>rules though I do not know much about those.<BR><BR>As for game background, well thats for someone else<BR><BR>Tim Reynolds<BR>tim@premier.net <BR>225-334-5063<BR>www.premier.net/~tim<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through<BR>the air, invisible<BR>And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.<BR>In that case, the prize went to the best dancer<BR>Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:18:41 -0500<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Andromeda<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:36:51 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Andromdea<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thom Jones-Low wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Depends. How much do you like Star Trek, particularly the current<BR>&gt; &gt; incarnation of ST: Voyager? And how much do you like Earth: Final<BR>&gt; &gt; Conquest? Since they are all made by the same group of people with<BR>&gt; &gt; the same style of writing, visual sense, approach to issues and<BR>&gt; &gt; their resolution, if you like the Star Trek/E:FC you will like<BR>&gt; &gt; Andromeda. If not, you'll hate it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Er ... and what if you really like Star Trek (including&nbsp; Voyager)<BR>&gt; but thougt Earth: Final Conflict sucked?<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Don't know. Andromeda is still in the first season, with all the flaws<BR>and unevenness that entails. Andromeda has all of the good and bad parts<BR>from both shows, probably more from early Voyager than from E:FC. I'd<BR>say give it a long try. <BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Personally, it's like a habit. I really am not all that interested<BR>&gt; &gt; in watching it because there's so much better on (B5 in repeats,<BR>&gt; &gt; Farscape, etc), and it's just like the others, but every week,<BR>&gt; &gt; there I am glued to the TV while it runs.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have all the B5 episodes on tape, including the movies and&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; Crusade series (which wasn't *that* bad, and may be&nbsp; coming&nbsp; back<BR>&gt; according to Peter Woodward at Gencon UK&nbsp; 2K),&nbsp; and&nbsp; I'm&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; Farscape on DVD as they come out (as well as Lexx and Buffy).<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Do you have any more info than rumor about Crusade? Last I checked of<BR>JMS's schedule he had a very full plate with no mention or returning to<BR>the show. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:26:21 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Because Traveller canon takes such a dim view of cybernetics, I have been<BR>&gt; able to find only limited amounts of reliable information concerning their<BR>&gt; capabilities, costs, limitations, and so on. Any thoughts?<BR><BR>If you're running a GURPS Traveller game, you might want to look at the<BR>cybertech in GURPS Ultratech.&nbsp; (Actually, GURPS Ultratech would give you<BR>some ideas for a non-GT game.)&nbsp; Just remember to account for the social<BR>stigma of having cyberenhanced body parts in the standard TU.<BR><BR>As I see it, bionic replacements for damaged body parts would be<BR>acceptable in the 3I [accidents happen], as long as their appearance and<BR>performance remained within normal human parameters.&nbsp; However,<BR>bioreplacements [from transplants, regen, or cloning] would be the<BR>socially-preferred option in the 3I.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:54:27 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>This sounds about right...too bad we can't have David Weber's Cadre Drop<BR>Commando's though...<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Because Traveller canon takes such a dim view of cybernetics, I have been<BR>&gt; &gt; able to find only limited amounts of reliable information concerning their<BR>&gt; &gt; capabilities, costs, limitations, and so on. Any thoughts?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you're running a GURPS Traveller game, you might want to look at the<BR>&gt; cybertech in GURPS Ultratech.&nbsp; (Actually, GURPS Ultratech would give you<BR>&gt; some ideas for a non-GT game.)&nbsp; Just remember to account for the social<BR>&gt; stigma of having cyberenhanced body parts in the standard TU.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As I see it, bionic replacements for damaged body parts would be<BR>&gt; acceptable in the 3I [accidents happen], as long as their appearance and<BR>&gt; performance remained within normal human parameters.&nbsp; However,<BR>&gt; bioreplacements [from transplants, regen, or cloning] would be the<BR>&gt; socially-preferred option in the 3I.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>&gt; least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>&gt; your unit."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>&gt; magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:51:37 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Super Dreadnaught arms race [ship design, long]<BR><BR>"Patrik Holmstrm" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For far too long have the evil minds of AuricTech Shipyards been allowed to<BR>&gt; roam free on the TML.<BR><BR>While we at AuricTech welcome competition, we do object to being labeled<BR>as "evil."&nbsp; Our suits [lawyers in battledress] stand ready to defend our<BR>corporate reputation.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; After a long night of rapid prototyping I thank the patron saint of all<BR>&gt; gearheads, Andrew Akins, and present to you the "Mengingjord" Super<BR>&gt; Dreadnaught. Like all Dimashq designs it has been evaluated mostly with<BR>&gt; Bruce Macintosh's MCS.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>An interesting variation on the honkin'-big battleship concept.&nbsp; The<BR>greatest single weakness of this ship is the use of High automation. <BR>While High automation reduces the crew requirements for any ship, it<BR>also reduces the ship's resistance to damage under MCS (if you used the<BR>Akins FF&amp;S2 spreadsheet, I suspect that the MCS Toughness rating is only<BR>20, versus _Shiva's_ Toughness of 21).<BR><BR>Also, given the relatively sluggish maneuverability of the<BR>_Mengingjord_-class (5-G acceleration, compared to _Shiva's_ 6-G<BR>acceleration), a _Mengingjord_ would seldom close to within effective<BR>range of its secondary meson gun mounts.<BR><BR>Overall, you have produced an intriguing counterpart to the<BR>_Shiva_-class.&nbsp; I would like to see the MCS stats of this ship.&nbsp; If you<BR>would be so kind as to forward them to me, I will likewise forward<BR>_Shiva's_ MCS stats (in RTF format) to you for comparison.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:03:45 -0600<BR>From: Jimmy Simpson &lt;nimrodd@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>At 08:05 PM 11/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Because Traveller canon takes such a dim view of cybernetics, I have been<BR>&gt;able to find only limited amounts of reliable information concerning their<BR>&gt;capabilities, costs, limitations, and so on. Any thoughts?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; <BR>If you can get a hold of them, there was a series of 3? articles in<BR>Travellers' Digest (I don't remember which ones) covering medicine, wounds<BR>and cybernetics.<BR><BR><BR>Jimmy Simpson<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; nimrodd@mail.com<BR><BR>"The avalanche has already started.<BR>It is too late for the pebbles to vote."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:30:40 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Actually, mass is *readily* available for members of multiple star<BR>&gt;&gt;systems as well as for any of the stars that we've discovered planets<BR>&gt;&gt;around.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sure, but remember my premise here: generating "realistic" worlds. One of <BR>&gt; the things I've done is weed out binaries where one component is going to <BR>&gt; mess up potential planets, or where one is a white dwarf and presumably <BR>&gt; mucked up the joint when it evolved off the main sequence.<BR><BR>Actually, that "mucking up" might actually make the remaining planets<BR>more valuable.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:36:46 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Locally the legal system is entirely well, a local matter. This means that<BR>&gt; there is no Imperium wide standard and that a lawyer, barrister, solicitor,<BR>&gt; etc. can not reasonably expect to practice away from his home world without<BR>&gt; extensive re-certification.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I would expect that worlds with trial by combat would be rather rare,<BR>&gt; otherwise every possible type of legal proceedings is fair game.<BR><BR>Assuming they've advanced to the stage of allowing champions, then the<BR>PCs might encounter a sign (or ad) for "John Doe, Gladiator-at-Law". :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:41:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Meson Communications<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I have a couple questions on Meson Communications and wanted to get the <BR>&gt; list's feedback.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1.&nbsp; How fast are they?&nbsp; Ex.&nbsp; I'm past Saturn and want to call someone on <BR>&gt; Earth, how long does the transmission take?<BR><BR>Slower than light, but not a *lot* slower than light (figure 99% or<BR>so). <BR><BR>&gt; 2.&nbsp; Is it a point to point communicator (like the laser) or is it a <BR>&gt; broadcast communicator (like a radio)?<BR><BR>It's worse. <BR><BR>With an MC, you not only need to know the *direction* of the receiver,<BR>you need to know the *range*. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:46:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Couple of Things (Long, Humourous) (sic)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: Couple of Things (Long, Humerous)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; It's "humourous", old chap.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So it is...hate it when I typo. <BR><BR>Well, you *could* have been talking about the humerus, which *is* a<BR>"long bone". :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:34:17 -0500<BR>From: CatWhoLeaps &lt;catwholeaps@mac.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Couple of Things<BR><BR>on 15/11/00 10:14 AM, Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:04:11 -0600<BR>&gt; From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Couple of Things<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; First, I'm looking for a world that I can develop into something I think<BR>&gt; you'll all find interesting.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I need an earth-like world, between 50-80% water, located within a few<BR>&gt; jumps of a large number of heavly populated worlds, and with a reasonably<BR>&gt; restrictive law level -- pupulation should not be more than a few hundred<BR>&gt; million, preferably less. Any ideas?<BR><BR>You could try Bantral (Pax Rulin/ 1906 Trojan Reach) (C886589-9 in 1117 MT<BR>timeline anyway).&nbsp; It is in the same subsector as Kryslion, Cyan, Perrior<BR>and Caraz (all high Pop worlds - within jump 5 or a couple of jump 2's).<BR><BR>It IS on the edge of nowhere of course...<BR><BR>David Crew<BR>MT Ref Trojan Reach 1120<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:47:42 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Sector Books<BR><BR>&gt; I saw on www.sjgames.com/gurps on the wish list sector....That SJG is <BR>looking <BR>&gt;&nbsp; for sector book authors...does anyone know if any of the sectors have been <BR>&gt;&nbsp; contracted for.<BR><BR>I do.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:08:15 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In the British legal system we have two varieties of lawyers...solicitors<BR>&gt; (legal advisors and experts) and barristers (the guys who actually speak in<BR>&gt; court). To take a case to court you need both.<BR><BR>Which, I hope you'll pardon this lawyer for saying so, is just plain wacky.<BR>In the US, every lawyer can represent a client in every legal situation.<BR>Of course, individuals tend to specialize, but if for some reason I need<BR>to represent someone before the Supreme Court, I can do that - just a little<BR>paperwork.<BR><BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:16:32 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Jones, Dean writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; OB-Trav: Do you need Barristers? JTAS already has an article on Imperial<BR>&gt; &gt; Law proceedings, but what about locally?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't believe that imperial law specifies how local law operates.&nbsp;&nbsp; 11,000<BR>&gt; worlds, 11,000 codes of law.&nbsp; Might make an interesting JTAS article, but I'm<BR>&gt; not the one to write it.<BR><BR>While there is every possibility that all these systems might have<BR>different systems, I think it unlikely.&nbsp; For certain classes of worlds,<BR>particularly large industrial trading ones, they have strong incentives<BR>to have common practices.&nbsp; I would expect a form of the Uniform<BR>Commercial Code, or something very similar in principle, to be<BR>developed.<BR><BR>The UCC is a set of commercial codes developed by the American<BR>Bar Association based on the way business does and prefers to<BR>operate.&nbsp; By itself, it's just paper.&nbsp; But most of the US States have<BR>adopted it, in whole or in part, often with minor variations.<BR>Consequently, the core of the law is the same in most states for the<BR>commercial dealings the code applies to.&nbsp; Even where there are<BR>variations, they are known and predictable.&nbsp; And that is good for<BR>business.<BR><BR>In the Imperium, I would expect that in these types of worlds,<BR>you could quickly get an update on specific variations from a<BR>generalized code for that system.&nbsp; Indeed, it might be forced<BR>upon anyone entering the system to do business.<BR><BR>It's the systems off the beaten track, or who aren't heavily<BR>involved in trade, that you have to watch out for.&nbsp; They have<BR>little incentive to conform to expected standards.&nbsp; And of course,<BR>the odd hold out with trial-by-combat is often desired for sheer<BR>dramatic flavor.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:19:49 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Assuming they've advanced to the stage of allowing champions, then the<BR>&gt; PCs might encounter a sign (or ad) for "John Doe, Gladiator-at-Law". :-)<BR><BR>When I was studying law at Boston University, a mere three years ago,<BR>there was a man who frequently used the library. Every time I saw him,<BR>twice a week or so, he was in uniform.&nbsp; The uniform, not counting his<BR>dreadlocks:&nbsp; solid green military combat fatigues with embroidered words<BR>on the left breast that read "Guerilla Lawyer-At-Large."<BR><BR>I am not creative enough to make that up.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:50:29 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>While these suggestions have been helpful, I am afraid I must have failed to<BR>accurately describe my intent. I am not really searching for a rules set,<BR>per se, but more of a discussion on the kinds of technology likely to have<BR>been stressed in the seemingly limited 3I's research into the subject.<BR>Other details, such as the law level requirement of various improvements,<BR>are also of great interest.&nbsp; In short, I'd like to know what people believe<BR>the 3I's medical, genetic, and cybernetic technological capabilities are.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jimmy Simpson" &lt;nimrodd@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 9:03 PM<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 08:05 PM 11/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Because Traveller canon takes such a dim view of cybernetics, I have been<BR>&gt; &gt;able to find only limited amounts of reliable information concerning<BR>their<BR>&gt; &gt;capabilities, costs, limitations, and so on. Any thoughts?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; If you can get a hold of them, there was a series of 3? articles in<BR>&gt; Travellers' Digest (I don't remember which ones) covering medicine, wounds<BR>&gt; and cybernetics.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jimmy Simpson<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; nimrodd@mail.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "The avalanche has already started.<BR>&gt; It is too late for the pebbles to vote."<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3295<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:56:34 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:56:06 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA63705;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:51:02 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:50:49 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA63661<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:50:49 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:50:49 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011160650.BAA63661@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3295<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, November 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3296<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>RE: Meson Communications<BR>Gabba Gabba Hey!<BR>Lasers<BR>re: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>RE: T4 Errata<BR>RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR>RE: Meson Communications<BR>RE: T4 Errata<BR>RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR>Re: Stuff 2<BR>Re: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>Re: Lasers<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re : cybernetics<BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>Gateway Quadrant<BR>ZN-15<BR>BI-15<BR>Testing - please ignore<BR>Re: ZN-15<BR>RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>Re: Lasers<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:49:36 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR><BR>There was specific mention of the Free Trader Beowolf in the print edition<BR>of JTAS 25, but I believe it was a faked callsign used by pirates. I'll mail<BR>again when I get home (about 12 hrs)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Loren Wiseman [mailto:lkw@io.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 15 November 2000 19:57<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OK folks, I'm writing the filler stuff to go in the white <BR>&gt; spaces around the<BR>&gt; edge of the Beowulf, and I have GREAT need to know anything <BR>&gt; specific we've<BR>&gt; ever said about the Beowulf class: When first designed, who <BR>&gt; did it, etc.<BR>&gt; Beowulf, IIRC, is the ship owned by the Jamisons (father and <BR>&gt; son), who were<BR>&gt; operating in the spinward shortly before the 5th frontier war <BR>&gt; -- I need to<BR>&gt; know if we ever said anything else about the ship . . .<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; <BR>http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:59:34 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nooo... a meson gun is a 'beam' weapon - the 'beam' does not <BR>&gt; teleport - it<BR>&gt; just does not interact with normal matter at all. (it is made <BR>&gt; up of Mesons<BR>&gt; after all, and they are really really really tiny).<BR><BR>I'll concede that no actual teleportation is involved, but as there is no<BR>interaction with the matter between transmissiona and reception point, so it<BR>is ~effectively~ teleportation. Apologies for confusing the issue, and<BR>you're quite correct, a non-interactive beam is a much better description of<BR>the way meson guns function. But, as Leonard points out, you not only need<BR>direction, but also distance so you can focus the shot. This suggests that<BR>meson comms also require focusing on a reciever, not just pointing like a<BR>laser.<BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:13:07 -0500<BR>From: Glenn Grant &lt;neo@total.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Gabba Gabba Hey!<BR><BR>"Beat on the Bwap"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [to the tune of "Beat on the Brat" by the Ramones]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (lightly mutated by Glenn Grant)<BR><BR>Beat on the Bwap<BR>Beat on the Bwap<BR>Beat on the Bwap<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; with a plasma zap<BR>oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah<BR>oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah<BR><BR>What can you do?<BR>What can you do<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; with a Bwap like that<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; in the Rimward Gap?<BR>What can you do?<BR>What can you do?<BR>What can you do<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; with a Bwap like that<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; auditing your tax?<BR>What gun to use?<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Chose!<BR><BR>[Repeat until unconscious]<BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ------------------------Glenn Grant------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;neo@total.net&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "That which does not kill us makes us stranger."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- Trevor Goodchild <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:35:08 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Lasers<BR><BR>Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who likes<BR>Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers inflict their<BR>damage by heat, right? If this is true, if you shoot a laser in an<BR>atmosphere, does it burn an air trail? If a ship is hit, does the heat<BR>spread throught the damaged sections?<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:30:58 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR><BR>&gt;From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;OK folks, I'm writing the filler stuff to go in the white spaces around the<BR>&gt;edge of the Beowulf, and I have GREAT need to know anything specific we've<BR>&gt;ever said about the Beowulf class: When first designed, who did it, etc.<BR>&gt;Beowulf, IIRC, is the ship owned by the Jamisons (father and son), who were<BR>&gt;operating in the spinward shortly before the 5th frontier war -- I need to<BR>&gt;know if we ever said anything else about the ship . . .<BR><BR>Jamison Factors is a small operation in Regina subsector that I think just<BR>has one ship, probably the Beowulf.&nbsp; It is mentioned in Book 7:&nbsp; Merchant<BR>Prince.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:02:01 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I have all the B5 episodes on tape, including the movies and&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; Crusade series (which wasn't *that* bad, and may be&nbsp; coming&nbsp; back<BR>&gt; &gt; according to Peter Woodward at Gencon UK&nbsp; 2K),&nbsp; and&nbsp; I'm&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; Farscape on DVD as they come out (as well as Lexx and Buffy).<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR><BR><BR>Is Lexx out on DVD? I've not found it anywhere.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 02:07:29 -0800<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:58:05 -0800, "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; "If the artifact is some sort of weapon, it allows domination and<BR>&gt;exploitation of those who do not have similarly advanced means of defense.<BR>&gt;The Reformation Coalition has adopted the term Technologically Elevated<BR>&gt;Dictator (TED) to describe societies in which a ruler or ruling class holds<BR>&gt;power through use of such artifacts." TNE Rulebook, pg. 95<BR><BR>A definition which, in one of the choicer ironies of the TNE setting, <BR>rather neatly fits the RC itself.&nbsp; They tend to get all defensive if you <BR>mention this to them, though.&nbsp; And you don't want to annoy someone in RCES <BR>battledress.<BR><BR>In practice, a TED seems to be anyone who stands in the way of the RC and <BR>their Hiver masters to assim^H^H^H^H^Hrebuild Civilization, and has the <BR>tech to make it a halfway fair fight.<BR><BR>To mangle a few phrases together:&nbsp; history books are written by the guy <BR>with the bigger battalions.<BR><BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Good human, GOOD human!&nbsp; Have a corn dog."<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:08:46 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: T4 Errata<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Edward, actually.&nbsp; But the fun part of my name is <BR>&gt; "Douglas."&nbsp; All ther<BR>&gt; &gt; males in our family have Douglas in their name, going back a few<BR>&gt; &gt; generations.&nbsp; Craig Douglas Berry is my brother, Peter John <BR>&gt; Douglas Berry<BR>&gt; &gt; my father, Edward Douglas Berry my grandfather...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have a name like that, too.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm George thomas Rupert Boleyn, known as 'Rupert', my father <BR>&gt; is George Stephen <BR>&gt; Boleyn, knwon as Stephen, my grandfather was simply George <BR>&gt; Boleyn (AFAIK), and <BR>&gt; so it goes for at least another two generations.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Me too, all the males in my family have the same surname :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:48:40 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR><BR>On Thursday, November 16, 2000, at 10:02 AM, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Crusade series (which wasn't *that* bad, <BR><BR>No, it was far far worse than that.<BR><BR>&gt; Is Lexx out on DVD? I've not found it anywhere. <BR><BR>DVD is coming (in the UK), series 4 is coming, and a series 2/3 soundtrack is coming too,<BR><BR>http://www.goldrush.com/~herd/lexx/<BR><BR>And if you're not in the fan club yet, shame on you all! ;-)<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/3930/fanclub.html<BR><BR>ObTrav: No, the universes are massively incompatible. My his shadow fall upon you.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:57:28 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Jones, Dean [mailto:Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 16 November 2000 08:00<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Nooo... a meson gun is a 'beam' weapon - the 'beam' does not <BR>&gt; &gt; teleport - it<BR>&gt; &gt; just does not interact with normal matter at all. (it is made <BR>&gt; &gt; up of Mesons<BR>&gt; &gt; after all, and they are really really really tiny).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'll concede that no actual teleportation is involved, but as <BR>&gt; there is no<BR>&gt; interaction with the matter between transmissiona and <BR>&gt; reception point, so it<BR>&gt; is ~effectively~ teleportation. Apologies for confusing the issue, and<BR>&gt; you're quite correct, a non-interactive beam is a much better <BR>&gt; description of<BR>&gt; the way meson guns function. But, as Leonard points out, you <BR>&gt; not only need<BR>&gt; direction, but also distance so you can focus the shot. This <BR>&gt; suggests that<BR>&gt; meson comms also require focusing on a reciever, not just <BR>&gt; pointing like a<BR>&gt; laser.<BR><BR>IIRC, meson communications involves using a small nuclear damper in the<BR>receiver to 'break down' the mesons into interactive particles to read<BR>the message. So you just need to know the direction and maximum range<BR>(so you can adjust you meson beam to not decay prematurely, by upping<BR>it's emission speed a few 0.0001c's etc).<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:01:38 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: T4 Errata<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Rupert Boleyn [mailto:rboleyn@paradise.net.nz]<BR>&gt; Sent: 16 November 2000 03:00<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: T4 Errata<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On 15 Nov 2000, at 18:50, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; At 05:10 PM 11/15/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/t4.html<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Something along those lines, yes.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;BTW, does the "E" in your name stand for "Emperor Penguin" ?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Edward, actually.&nbsp; But the fun part of my name is <BR>&gt; "Douglas."&nbsp; All ther<BR>&gt; &gt; males in our family have Douglas in their name, going back a few<BR>&gt; &gt; generations.&nbsp; Craig Douglas Berry is my brother, Peter John <BR>&gt; Douglas Berry<BR>&gt; &gt; my father, Edward Douglas Berry my grandfather...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have a name like that, too.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm George Thomas Rupert Boleyn, known as 'Rupert', my father <BR>&gt; is George Stephen <BR>&gt; Boleyn, known as Stephen, my grandfather was simply George <BR>&gt; Boleyn (AFAIK), and <BR>&gt; so it goes for at least another two generations.<BR><BR>Cool, I'm one of a chain of Georges as well...<BR><BR>Matt (Matthew George Bond) <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:59:27 +0100<BR>From: "Volker Alexander Greimann" &lt;grei5001@uni-trier.de&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR><BR>On 16 Nov 2000, at 10:02, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I have all the B5 episodes on tape, including the movies and&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Crusade series (which wasn't *that* bad, and may be&nbsp; coming&nbsp; back<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; according to Peter Woodward at Gencon UK&nbsp; 2K),&nbsp; and&nbsp; I'm&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Farscape on DVD as they come out (as well as Lexx and Buffy).<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is Lexx out on DVD? I've not found it anywhere.<BR>Ive seen it in Germany, but only with the german lamnguage track <BR>and one of the episodes on the second DVD has been shortened <BR>for an unknown reason<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:02:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>FF&amp;S Chapter 12 deals with cybernetics quite nicely.<BR><BR>- --- tim@premier.net wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Because Traveller canon takes such a dim view of cybernetics, I<BR>&gt; have been<BR>&gt; &gt; able to find only limited amounts of reliable information<BR>&gt; concerning their<BR>&gt; &gt; capabilities, costs, limitations, and so on. Any thoughts?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; Well one thing you can do is you GDW's Dark Conspiracy rules on <BR>&gt; cybernetics then convert it into TNE or Mega Traveller which <BR>&gt; everyone used the GDW House system.&nbsp; From there you can can <BR>&gt; convert it to any game.&nbsp; You can do the same with GURPS cyper <BR>&gt; rules though I do not know much about those.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As for game background, well thats for someone else<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tim Reynolds<BR>&gt; tim@premier.net <BR>&gt; 225-334-5063<BR>&gt; www.premier.net/~tim<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through<BR>&gt; the air, invisible<BR>&gt; And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.<BR>&gt; In that case, the prize went to the best dancer<BR>&gt; Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!<BR>http://calendar.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:32:25 +0000<BR>From: John Wood &lt;John@elvw.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Stuff 2<BR><BR>MJ Dougherty &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt; wrote,<BR>&gt;More Traveller fiction on FFN - including one by Terry McInnes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;www.fiction-fantasy.net<BR><BR>My own offering - "A Time of Ignorance" - is the first piece of fiction<BR>I've written set in someone else's universe. I'd welcome any feedback<BR>TMLers have to offer.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>John G. Wood&nbsp; |&nbsp; john@elvw.demon.co.uk&nbsp; |&nbsp; Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) tg+ ru ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:33:27 +0100<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR><BR>"John P. Raynor" wrote:<BR>&gt; Uh...isn't the "Beowulf" mentioned in one of the adventure seeds in the<BR>&gt; "T4" supplement entitled "Imperial Squadrons?"&nbsp; On the other hand, it's<BR>&gt; entirely possible that there's more than one ship with that name...<BR><BR>Confirmed. The adventure seed does not, however, contain any additional<BR>information about the ship.<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:48:19 +0100<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers<BR><BR>&gt; Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who<BR>likes<BR>&gt; Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers inflict their<BR>&gt; damage by heat, right?<BR><BR>Yes, when the laser hits its target, the surface material gets heated very<BR>quickly, resulting in an explosion-like expansion of superheated material.<BR><BR>&gt; If this is true, if you shoot a laser in an<BR>&gt; atmosphere, does it burn an air trail?<BR><BR>that depends on the wavelength of the light in the laser beam. ideally, when<BR>using a laser in an atmosphere, you would want to use a wavelength that<BR>doesn't interact with the gas molecules in the atmosphere, so that as much<BR>as possible of the laser energy reaches its target instead of heating the<BR>air. i assume most lasers made for use in atmospheres do not heat the air.<BR><BR>&gt; If a ship is hit, does the heat<BR>&gt; spread throught the damaged sections?<BR><BR>yes, but i don't think the heat will last very long. lots of the energy<BR>would radiate away into space.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:22:53 +0000<BR>From: Phil Kitching &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>bloo wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And of course, &gt;the odd hold out with trial-by-combat is often desired<BR>&gt; for sheer dramatic flavor.<BR><BR>Don't forget trial by ordeal - why ask a dozen locals who don't know<BR>if the suspect is guilty when you could ask the local deity who does?<BR><BR>A thought for combining alien physiology and law:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "So what is this 'divine hand ordeal'?"<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "They cut off your hand..."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "What!"<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "Yep. If it grows back then the gods have shown your innocence.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Otherwise, the gods are showing their disfavour."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "But hands don't grow back!"<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "Theirs do. They bodies still regenerate lost limbs but sometimes<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; it doesn't work. So having a missing limb is seen as being<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; rejected by the gods."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "So I'm doomed?"<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "Hardly. I know this high tech medical facility. Amazingly good<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; value for the service..."<BR><BR><BR>Phil Kitching<BR>- --<BR>&nbsp; http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>&nbsp; Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, Nov 17 2000 0:30:41 GMT+1100<BR>From: robocon@ozemail.com.au<BR>Subject: Re : cybernetics<BR><BR>Jeffery Yin wrote :-<BR>&gt; In short, I'd like to know what people believe the 3I's medical, genetic, and cybernetic<BR>&gt; technological capabilities are.<BR><BR>i. Pharmacology<BR>Combinatorial pharm and pharmacogenetics lead to the advent of individually tailored drug treatments. These are progressively refined so that by TTL 12-13, 'broad spectrum vaccines' and 'antitoxins' are available. These products provide the equivalent of GURPS Panimmunity, or are similar to drugs like 'Genericillin'.<BR>Metabolic control is as per the books, with simple&nbsp; (courses of drugs that can be used on an outpatient basis) anagathics the high point of TTL 15 drug tech.<BR><BR>ii. Regeneration/cloning<BR>Increased growth quickening rates to a maximum of 100:1 across average TTLs. Initially requirement for invasive implant/explant support to facilitate organ/limb regeneration (TTL 9-10).<BR>Nerve refusion able to rejoin optic nerves by TTL 10, spinal cords a TTL later. By TTL 10, all prosthetics can be fully innervated.<BR>Whole body regrowth/transplantation possible by TTL 13 (reanimation, requires intact brain) ; brain recapitulation by TTL 15 (so survival post cerebrovascular radiation syndrome possible).<BR><BR>iii. Cybernetics<BR>Extensive re-engineering of rest of body required for mods with capabilities beyond the species' norms (e.g. strength/endurance). Increased sensory capabilities require brain augmentation (TTL13-14) or computer implants.<BR>In the Imperium, societal mores (especially anti-psionic attitudes), and expense limit availability.<BR><BR>iv. Diagnostics<BR>Lab boxes first available at TTL 8 increase in capability ; rapid PCR based microbiological identification TTL 9, rapid pharmaceutical analysis TTL 10.<BR>Proliferation of imaging modalities. Scanners get smaller and smarter with expert systems, leading to development of automeds (medical/surgical robots).<BR>Implanted biosensors commonplace by TTL 12. Med scanners rely on these to acquire vital signs.<BR><BR>v. Genetic engineering<BR>The TTL 9-13 period is spent interpreting genome data. Specific treatments are devised for various conditions ; the high point of expertise is reached by TTL 14, when uplifting non-sentients becomes possible (very bright animals like cetacea and great apes).<BR><BR>Perhaps Jeff Zeitlin still has some of my screeds on the Freelance Traveller site (the medical tech level post might be of interest).<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR>This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:09:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, Kelly St.Clair wrote:<BR>&gt; On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:58:05 -0800, "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; "If the artifact is some sort of weapon, it allows domination and<BR>&gt; &gt;exploitation of those who do not have similarly advanced means of defense.<BR>&gt; &gt;The Reformation Coalition has adopted the term Technologically Elevated<BR>&gt; &gt;Dictator (TED) to describe societies in which a ruler or ruling class holds<BR>&gt; &gt;power through use of such artifacts." TNE Rulebook, pg. 95<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A definition which, in one of the choicer ironies of the TNE setting, <BR>&gt; rather neatly fits the RC itself.&nbsp; They tend to get all defensive if you <BR>&gt; mention this to them, though.&nbsp; And you don't want to annoy someone in RCES <BR>&gt; battledress.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In practice, a TED seems to be anyone who stands in the way of the RC and <BR>&gt; their Hiver masters to assim^H^H^H^H^Hrebuild Civilization, and has the <BR>&gt; tech to make it a halfway fair fight.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To mangle a few phrases together:&nbsp; history books are written by the guy <BR>&gt; with the bigger battalions.<BR><BR>As my ignorance of Technologically Elevated Dictatorships suggests, I am<BR>not really a "New Era" player, but I recently purchased "Pocket Empires,"<BR>but there is a certain sad futility in running an empire-building campaign<BR>in "Milleu 0" (since the Third Imperium is destined to gobble up whatever<BR>you build), and the blank canvas and uncharted future of the "New Era"<BR>looked more promising.<BR><BR>Basically, I envision a campaign set in a parallel universe in which the<BR>Domain of Deneb *wasn't* able to keep the Virus out, but delayed it just<BR>long enough to set up a "Morrow Project" intended to "thaw out" and begin<BR>rebuilding interstellar civilization as soon as the worst of the Virus<BR>burned itself out.&nbsp; Of course, a few worlds in the Spinward Marches<BR>survived the Collapse and began rebuilding on their own, and they might<BR>not take kindly to a pack of well-equipped Rip Van Winkles claiming to be<BR>the legitimate successors of the Third Imperium and getting in the way.<BR><BR>So that's why I was interested in Technologically Elevated Dictatorships,<BR>and all the other peculiar governments found in the post-Collapse Wilds.<BR>Am I correct in thinking that the best way to solve this problem would be<BR>to "translate" all those "New Era" government types into their nearest<BR>"Classic/T4" equivalents, for the sake of easy compatibility with the<BR>"Pocket Empires" rules?&nbsp; Do the "New Era" players who may be reading this<BR>think that too much of the "flavor" of post-Collapse government would be<BR>lost by using such a technique?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:10:19 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>The code for TEDs, and presumably the other non standard government types on<BR>the Wilds table, I always assumed was to reflect the classifications handed<BR>out by the Reformation Coalition. Presumably the Regency would continue to<BR>use the standard imperial government codes.<BR><BR>Antony<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:18:00 +0100<BR>From: Allan Robinson &lt;allan@crusoe.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Gateway Quadrant<BR><BR>Hi all,<BR>I've been drifting back to Traveller over the last few months,after an <BR>absence of many years (wow the Emperor was assassinated!, gosh a sentient <BR>computer virus!), and have been thinking of reviving my old CT Gateway <BR>Quadrant campaign.&nbsp; However, a trawl of the Traveller webring indicates <BR>that the Judges Guild published material is considered non-canon, and that <BR>there is some incomplete GDW (?) sector data for Ley Sector and <BR>Glimmerdrift Reaches but none for Gateway(Maranantha-Alkahest in JG) or <BR>Crucis Margin.&nbsp; Since Judges Guild is now up and running again, and <BR>reprinting its' old Traveller titles, does this make there license valid <BR>again, and if so what to do about the borders between Gateway Quadrant and <BR>the rest of Known Space.<BR><BR>Of course I can always apply a "the borders of all these interstellar <BR>states just happen to lie along the edge of this page" fudge, but it's not <BR>exactly aesthetically pleasing, if you know what I mean.<BR><BR>Thanks for any advice/opinions<BR><BR>Allan Robinson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:30:10 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: ZN-15<BR><BR>Was just looking through my copy of Fighting Ships, does any one know what<BR>was so special about the ZN-15. What was this ship designed to do? etc. For<BR>a TL15 design the ship seems a sitting duck. Its the size of a large<BR>cruiser. But has a 1G drive and j3 capacity. It also has a black globe<BR>generator, which given what appears to be in inherant weakness of the ship<BR>seems like a good way to let it fall into enemy hands. Any idead?<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:30:12 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: BI-15<BR><BR>Still enthused for FFS1 construction after the completion of the Tigress and<BR>a number of other conversions I now move onto the BI-15 Dreadnought, coming<BR>to a war near you.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:47:30 +0400<BR>From: Andrew Long &lt;andylong@emirates.net.ae&gt;<BR>Subject: Testing - please ignore<BR><BR>Just testing to see if the lisbot has deleted me from the list<BR><BR>Andy<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:52:45 +0100<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ZN-15<BR><BR>Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; Was just looking through my copy of Fighting Ships, does any one know what<BR>&gt; was so special about the ZN-15. What was this ship designed to do? etc. For<BR>&gt; a TL15 design the ship seems a sitting duck. Its the size of a large<BR>&gt; cruiser. But has a 1G drive and j3 capacity. It also has a black globe<BR>&gt; generator, which given what appears to be in inherant weakness of the ship<BR>&gt; seems like a good way to let it fall into enemy hands. Any idead?<BR><BR>Decoys designed to let faulty black globe generators fall into enemy<BR>hands?&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:53:13 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; The code for TEDs, and presumably the other non standard government <BR>&gt; types on the Wilds table, I always assumed was to reflect the<BR>&gt; classifications handed out by the Reformation Coalition. Presumably<BR>&gt; the Regency would continue to use the standard imperial government<BR>&gt; codes.<BR><BR>So in other words "Technologically Elevated Dictatorships" *can* be <BR>safely reclassified as "Self-Perpetuating Oligarchies (3)," "Feudal<BR>Technocracies (5)," "Non-Charismatic Dictatorships (11)" and<BR>"Totalitarian Oligarchies (15)."&nbsp; Other than hostility towards<BR>off-worlders who threaten their technological monopolies, do TEDs have<BR>any other notable characteristics that would effect their behavior in<BR>a "Pocket Empires" campaign?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:10:22 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: John Fox &lt;jfox@verity.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers<BR><BR>Dear Jeffery:<BR><BR>Laser 101<BR>&nbsp; Laser (Light amplified by Simulated Emission of Radiation)<BR>&nbsp; Take two mirrors (one wioth 100% refelctive mirror at one end of tube and one <BR>with 99% (do not know exact amount) at other end.&nbsp; Fill with appropriate gas <BR>that give off a certain wavelength of light.&nbsp; Stimulate gas molecules (somehow) <BR>and light starts bouncing back and forth between mirrors.&nbsp; Eventually amout of <BR>light get enought to come out the 99% end.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Note: solid state laser I do not know about.<BR>&nbsp; Laser deposit energy onto target (usually in the form of highly concentrated <BR>heat).&nbsp; The amount of heat gnerated is of course directly related to the amount <BR>of power the laser outputs.&nbsp; The problem with heat spreading is that it takes <BR>time.&nbsp; Yes, some of it will spread to the surrounding areas of the ship but the <BR>amount relative to what it takes to vaporize the part of the hull is small.<BR>There are two effects when a laser hits.&nbsp; 1) Actual parts of the hull get <BR>vaporized. 2) Shock damage due to the vaporized parts of the hull expanding <BR>violently&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; In #1 the part of the hull that the laser hits receives so much heat that the <BR>material vaporizes.&nbsp; (We will get to #2 shortly). If this part of the hull <BR>happens to be where there is an atmosphere the atmosphere will start to vent <BR>because you know have a hole out to space. If there part happens to be a heat <BR>sensitive item (say liguid hydrogen) this may also start to boil and cause an <BR>rapid increase in pressure until it can be relieved (usually by venting out <BR>through the hole just made by laser).&nbsp; If the object happens to be a sensor, you <BR>jsut lost your sensor.&nbsp; If the object happens to be a solid rocket booster you <BR>now have a burning solid rocket booster with a hole you did not design (and <BR>hence is not going to act like you want it to).<BR>&nbsp; Item #2. This is actually what causes a lot of the damage when a laser hits.&nbsp; <BR>You have a certain amount of material that is caporized.&nbsp; It has to go somewhere <BR>(ie 18 cc of water gets turned into 22,414 cc of water vapor.&nbsp; That is alot to <BR>go someplace in a hurry.&nbsp; You get shock waves whole nother section of physical <BR>study I am not that familiar with).&nbsp; These shock waves cause damage the closer <BR>they are to the point of impact.&nbsp; These shock waves do stuff like destroy your <BR>hull area, rupture water (air) type compartments, damage sensitive equipment, <BR>mess up the elignment of machinery.&nbsp; In naval terms there is something called a <BR>whipping effect. The ship will actually whip around due to the flexing of the <BR>hull.&nbsp; If the explosian is big enough this causes equipment to come off of its <BR>mountings, throws people (and stuff) around like rag dolls and causes all sorts <BR>of damage (and can screw up water tight doors if they are not closed).<BR>&nbsp; As to what happens when the laser goes through the atmosphere there are two <BR>(actually more) things to worry about. 1) Thermal blooming 2) Particluate <BR>scatter<BR>&nbsp; Item #1 Thermal blooming.&nbsp; The laser pulse is short but not instantaneous.&nbsp; <BR>There is a duration to it.&nbsp; The laser heats up the atmosphere (after all it is <BR>matter) in a column.&nbsp; The matter (air mostly N2 and O2) with heat up and try to <BR>expand.&nbsp; This will cause a rapid change in the density of the column of matter <BR>the laser is going through (espically if the laser is firing continualy or in <BR>rapid brusst at a laiong range target).&nbsp; This changing of density of the column <BR>willcause the lasers effectiveness to go down because the laser will ahve been <BR>optimized for certain conditions which are now changing. This is more pronounced <BR>with partical accelerators so I understand.<BR>&nbsp; Item #2. Particulate scatter.&nbsp; Unless you air is purified (and in the <BR>atmosphere it is NOT!) there are items in the column of air you wish to shoot <BR>the laser through. That insect and dust particaly will for a small fraction of a <BR>second be in the way of the laser (not for long though). This causes the beam to <BR>lose energy as it goes to the target (afterall it take energy to vaporize that <BR>insect) and some of the beam will be scattered (maybe not much but it adds up). <BR>The particulate matter will lower the amount of energy delivered to the target. <BR>Now if you are doing shooting in the Antartic with a clear night sky the amount <BR>of scattering is much less than in the Sahara during a dust storm.&nbsp; Even if <BR>there is no dust storm in the Sahara there is more particulate matter airborne <BR>there than in the Antartic.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; I am sure there is some physics student (or laser expert) on the list who can <BR>explain this better.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; John W. Fox<BR>&nbsp; A software tester.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who likes<BR>&gt; Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers inflict their<BR>&gt; damage by heat, right? If this is true, if you shoot a laser in an<BR>&gt; atmosphere, does it burn an air trail? If a ship is hit, does the heat<BR>&gt; spread throught the damaged sections?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3296<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:13:43 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:13:12 1900<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA09156;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:11:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:10:57 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA09116<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:10:56 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:10:56 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011161610.LAA09116@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3296<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, November 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3297<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Heaven &amp; Earth Temperatures<BR>RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR>Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR>Government Code<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Religious Dictatorships<BR>Re: World/System Generators?<BR>RE: Meson Communications<BR>Re: Super Dreadnaught arms race <BR>Adventure Challenge #2<BR>Government Types<BR>Re: Religious Dictatorships<BR>Re: Lasers<BR>Religious Dictatorships<BR>Re: Government Types<BR>Re: Lasers<BR>Re: Lasers<BR>Re: Lasers<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:27:06 -0500<BR>From: Bob Kovalchick &lt;Kovalchick@wbgh.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Heaven &amp; Earth Temperatures<BR><BR>I'm using the latest version of H&amp;E (MT rules) and it seems like I get a lot<BR>of extreme temperatures for worlds. Especially M class stars (-200+ degrees<BR>C!). I've looked on the net (and found a chat log with the Berry's) but<BR>haven't really found any info on this issue. Is it an error with the rules?<BR>(MT, WBH, etc. I still haven't quite figured out the Scouts Book 6 temp<BR>formula, I need help on that) With the program? Or, do Travellers really<BR>need that cold/hot weather clothing from their ships locker?<BR><BR>Perhaps a 767 world isn't going to be a "habitable" world very often?<BR><BR><BR>Bob Kovalchick<BR>Sociology-4, JOT-3 <BR>kovalchick@wbgh.org &lt;mailto:kovalchick@wbgh.org&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:19:34 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: John P. Raynor [mailto:john.raynor@yale.edu]<BR>&gt; Sent: 16 November 2000 15:53<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; The code for TEDs, and presumably the other non standard government <BR>&gt; &gt; types on the Wilds table, I always assumed was to reflect the<BR>&gt; &gt; classifications handed out by the Reformation Coalition. Presumably<BR>&gt; &gt; the Regency would continue to use the standard imperial government<BR>&gt; &gt; codes.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So in other words "Technologically Elevated Dictatorships" *can* be <BR>&gt; safely reclassified as "Self-Perpetuating Oligarchies (3)," "Feudal<BR>&gt; Technocracies (5)," "Non-Charismatic Dictatorships (11)" and<BR>&gt; "Totalitarian Oligarchies (15)."&nbsp; Other than hostility towards<BR>&gt; off-worlders who threaten their technological monopolies, do TEDs have<BR>&gt; any other notable characteristics that would effect their behavior in<BR>&gt; a "Pocket Empires" campaign?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Greed to aquire more technology? TED hires a party to find some lost temple<BR>or something...it is actually the fire control room for a planetary meson<BR>cannon.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:39:32 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Is Lexx out on DVD? I've not found it anywhere.<BR>&gt;Ive seen it in Germany, but only with the german lamnguage track<BR>&gt;and one of the episodes on the second DVD has been shortened<BR>&gt;for an unknown reason<BR><BR>Wouldn't putting both the German and English tracks on the DVD be the <BR>sort of thing the marketing people are telling us we should buy DVD <BR>systems for?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:00:37 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Remembrance Sunday<BR><BR>This is late, i wanted to check some facts first.<BR><BR>In Canada, Remembrance Day is observed on the 11th day of the 11th <BR>month. Many businesses and almost all government offices are closed <BR>all day. When i was in elementary school there was an official minute <BR>of silence at 11am, but that stopped by the time i was in high <BR>school. I read in the paper this year that some test silences last <BR>year and this year were very well received, and the government is <BR>planning on bringing back the official minute of silence. And no, i <BR>don't know what a "test silence" is.<BR><BR>The United Church of Canada holds its official Remembrance Service on <BR>the Sunday before the 11th. The Anglican Church Remembrance Service <BR>is on the closest Sunday. The local Catholic Church held a special <BR>Remembrance Mass on the day. I don't know about other sects or faiths.<BR><BR>"For the Fallen" is heard at some ceremonies. The dominant poem is <BR>"In Flanders Fields." It is the poem school children are taught and <BR>the one the CBC broadcasts at intervals during the week.<BR><BR><BR><BR>In Flanders Fields<BR><BR>In Flanders fields the poppies blow<BR>Between the crosses, row on row<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; That mark our place; and in the sky<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The larks, still bravely singing, fly<BR>Scarce heard amid the guns below.<BR><BR>We are the Dead. Short days ago<BR>We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Loved and were loved, and now we lie<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; In Flanders fields.<BR><BR>Take up our quarrel with the foe:<BR>To you from failing hands we throw<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The torch; be yours to hold it high.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; If ye break faith with us who die<BR>We shall not sleep, though poppies grow<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; In Flanders fields.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; John McCrae<BR><BR><BR>I recommend to everyone the collection _Anthem_for_Doomed_Youth_. WWI <BR>poetry by WWI soldiers. Moving and haunting.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:14:07 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Government Code<BR><BR>Does it seem odd to anyone that a religious dictator ship is government D <BR>when historically its been the small, primitive tribes that are like this? <BR>What I'm proposing is switching govs 3 and D, which makes governments A-D <BR>progress like this:<BR><BR>A&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Charismatic Dictator<BR>B&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Non-charismatic Leader<BR>C&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Charismatic Oligarchy<BR>D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Self-perpetuating Oligarchy<BR><BR>And, to solve the problem of religious dictatorships suddenly being given a <BR>lower law level due to lower gov number, just add another rule: If the gov <BR>type is 3, apply a DM of +10 to the law level roll. This makes the law <BR>levels for religious dicatatorships the same without a world having to have <BR>a large population to have them.<BR><BR>So, what do you think?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:26:17 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>&gt;Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;I don't believe that imperial law specifies how local law operates.<BR>&gt;11,000 worlds, 11,000 codes of law.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;While there is every possibility that all these systems might have<BR>&gt;different systems, I think it unlikely.&nbsp; For certain classes of worlds,<BR>&gt;particularly large industrial trading ones, they have strong incentives<BR>&gt;to have common practices.&nbsp; I would expect a form of the Uniform<BR>&gt;Commercial Code, or something very similar in principle, to be<BR>&gt;developed.<BR><BR>In Medieval Europe there were "systems" of towns, where one original town <BR>had its legal code copied by newly-founded towns, which in turn had "their" <BR>legal code copied, etc. The most successful was quite a large group of <BR>towns, upwards of a hundred, based on some obscure little hamlet whose name <BR>and location eludes me at the moment. In the Hanse, I think?<BR><BR>Considering that various worlds are going to have been colonized at various <BR>different times, I would think something similar would have cropped up in <BR>the 3I. Colonists of New Colony 17 look around and say "Hmmm. Colony 3 has <BR>been quite successful, except for that unfortunate incident with the Space <BR>Anteaters. Let's borrow their colonization plan: government structure, laws, <BR>etc."<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:37:54 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Religious Dictatorships<BR><BR>As the game now stands, a religious dictatorship requires (without fiat) a <BR>MINIMUM population of 100,000,000. But, most religious dictatorships in <BR>history have been primitive tribes. Also, this destroys the progression <BR>begun by A and B of Charismatic to non-Charismatic. So, why not restructure <BR>the table as follows:<BR><BR>Digit&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Government<BR>3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Religious Dictatorship<BR>D&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy<BR>E&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Totalitarian Autocracy<BR><BR>Adjust the tech level table appropriately. Leave everything else the same.<BR><BR>This makes more sense in my mind, since Religious Autocracy should be, IMHO, <BR>be absorbed by Religious Dictatorship.<BR><BR>Now, to adjust for the law level of religious dictatorships (which should be <BR>VERY high), just institute a DM of +10 to the Law Level roll if the <BR>government is a type 3 (which is now religious dictatorship). This makes is <BR>ACT like a type D without BEING a type D.<BR><BR>Any thoughts?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:14:38 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: World/System Generators?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;One of the things I've done is weed out binaries where one component is <BR>&gt;&gt;going to mess up potential planets, or where one is a white dwarf and <BR>&gt;&gt;presumably mucked up the joint when it evolved off the main sequence.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, that "mucking up" might actually make the remaining planets<BR>&gt;more valuable.<BR><BR>?? You know something I don't know. Give me details! I was under the <BR>impression that having one component of a binary star evolve off the main <BR>sequence pretty much precluded the continuing existance of earthlike planets <BR>in the same system. All that nasty red gianting and puffing off of the outer <BR>layers is bad for the biosphere (someone call Al Gore!)<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:17:25 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR><BR>Once these mesons break down and release their energy, is it possible to<BR>read the information content in the released radiation?<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:35:49 CET<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Super Dreadnaught arms race <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;For far too long have the evil minds of AuricTech Shipyards been allowed <BR>&gt;&gt;to roam free on the TML.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;While we at AuricTech welcome competition, we do object to being labeled<BR>&gt;as "evil."&nbsp; Our suits [lawyers in battledress] stand ready to defend our<BR>&gt;corporate reputation.<BR><BR>I of course mean that in the best possible way. I have a hard time believing <BR>that anyone who designs 1Mdt battleships aren't having "some" evil thoughts. <BR>;)<BR><BR>&gt;An interesting variation on the honkin'-big battleship concept.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;greatest single weakness of this ship is the use of High automation. While <BR>&gt;High automation reduces the crew requirements for any ship, it<BR>&gt;also reduces the ship's resistance to damage under MCS (if you used the<BR>&gt;Akins FF&amp;S2 spreadsheet, I suspect that the MCS Toughness rating is only<BR>&gt;20, versus _Shiva's_ Toughness of 21).<BR><BR>Opps, my mistake. It should be standard automation. The high part was an<BR>experiment to see if I could get an extra G to match the Shiva but<BR>I decided it wasn't worth it. The "Monitor" SDB on the other hand will use <BR>it as well as carry a *mean* circular PAW and have 7G accel.<BR><BR>&gt;Also, given the relatively sluggish maneuverability of the<BR>&gt;_Mengingjord_-class (5-G acceleration, compared to _Shiva's_ 6-G<BR>&gt;acceleration), a _Mengingjord_ would seldom close to within effective<BR>&gt;range of its secondary meson gun mounts.<BR><BR>That is only a problem if the opposing side isn't tied to defend<BR>a fixed position in space like a planet. I agree it is a suboptimal<BR>but then there is always tradeoffs. Besides it is pretty hard to hit <BR>something at _Long range_ especially with spinal mounts (use of the "Gs to <BR>aim" rule limits Rof) so the Medium range of the meson gun is not that bad.<BR><BR>&gt;Overall, you have produced an intriguing counterpart to the<BR>&gt;_Shiva_-class. I would like to see the MCS stats of this ship.&nbsp; If you<BR>&gt;would be so kind as to forward them to me, I will likewise forward<BR>&gt;_Shiva's_ MCS stats (in RTF format) to you for comparison.<BR><BR>The USP stats should appear an my website (in sig) in a couple of hours with <BR>MCS stats following sometime this afternoon/evening (CET). The nice thing <BR>with competition is that it makes it much easier to design if you don't <BR>compete only with yourself.<BR><BR>Patrik Holmstrm<BR>http://www.csd.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:06:14 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Adventure Challenge #2<BR><BR>Here's the parameters for adventure challenge number two:<BR>- -Set in OTU (includes the GT alternate timeline)<BR>- -T4 is preferred, but CT is OK. (please, no GURPS)<BR>- -Involves a vicious minor race that's terrorizing the poor citizens of an <BR>earth-like, lo-tech, lo-pop world.<BR>- -Structured like a Shakespearean play (Act #-Scene #-[Place], {Enter PCs, <BR>etc.})<BR>- -Features a character class from Diablo II! (Optional)<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:10:54 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Government Types<BR><BR>It seems odd to me that a religious dictatorship is a type D government. <BR>This requires a MINIMUM population of one-hundred million! But most <BR>religious dictatorships in history have been small, primitive tribes in <BR>Africa and Central America, haven't they?<BR><BR>Also, why is a self-perpetuating oligarchy a type 3 government? Shouldn't IT <BR>be type D, in order to follow the trend of Charismatic to Non-Charismatic <BR>set by tpyes A and B?<BR><BR>I propose that government tpyes 3 and D be switched, and the Tech Level <BR>table altered accordingly. To solve the fact that religious dictatorships <BR>will have high law levels, institute a DM of +10 to the Law Level roll if <BR>the government is a religious dicatatorship. This makes is ACT like a type D <BR>without BEING a type D.<BR><BR>Any thoughts?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:18:50 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Religious Dictatorships<BR><BR>Sorry about posting on this twice. Hotmail's server was apparently slow, so <BR>I thought that it didn't get sent.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:27:01 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who <BR>&gt;likes<BR>&gt; &gt; Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science.<BR><BR>Tell me about it. I'm embarressed about some of the things I said soon after <BR>joining the list. And all because I was trying to talk about stuff that was <BR>WAAAAY over my head without taking time to properly research it. I guess we <BR>humans are just naturally disposed to Aristotelian methods (which is <BR>probably why he used them).<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen (who has no intention of becoming involved in any further <BR>scientific discussions and will henceforth stick to Traveller)<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:03:22 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Religious Dictatorships<BR><BR>As the game now stands, a religious dictatorship requires (without fiat) a <BR>MINIMUM population of 100,000,000. But, most religious dictatorships in <BR>history have been primitive tribes. Also, this destroys the progression <BR>begun by A and B of Charismatic to non-Charismatic. So, why not restructure <BR>the table as follows:<BR><BR>Digit&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Government<BR>3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Religious Dictatorship<BR>D&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy<BR>E&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Totalitarian Autocracy<BR><BR>Adjust the tech level table appropriately. Leave everything else the same.<BR><BR>This makes more sense in my mind, since Religious Autocracy should be, IMHO, <BR>be absorbed by Religious Dictatorship.<BR><BR>Now, to adjust for the law level of religious dictatorships (which should be <BR>VERY high), just institute a DM of +10 to the Law Level roll if the <BR>government is a type 3 (which is now religious dictatorship). This makes is <BR>ACT like a type D without BEING a type D.<BR><BR>Any thoughts?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:57:47 -0700<BR>From: bruce johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Government Types<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It seems odd to me that a religious dictatorship is a type D<BR>&gt; government.&nbsp;&nbsp; This requires a MINIMUM population of one-hundred<BR>&gt; million! But most&nbsp;&nbsp; religious dictatorships in history have been<BR>&gt; small, primitive tribes in&nbsp;&nbsp; Africa and Central America, haven't<BR>&gt; they?<BR><BR>Afghanistan and Iran are hardly 'small, primitive tribes'.<BR>&nbsp; Nor in fact was Egypt during, foex, the reign of Rameses II.<BR><BR>Tibet under the Dalai Lama's was also, essentially, a religious<BR>dictatorship, pretty absolute in fact.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:58:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who likes<BR>&gt; Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers inflict their<BR>&gt; damage by heat, right?<BR><BR>Only low powered ones do.<BR><BR>High powered lasers do their damage by depositing so much energy in<BR>the target spot, so fast, that the material *explodes*.<BR><BR>&gt; If this is true, if you shoot a laser in an atmosphere, does it burn<BR>&gt; an air trail?<BR><BR>Yes and no. You are thinking of energy densities (watts per square<BR>centimeter) that are far lower than real weapons grade lasers.<BR><BR>For lower powered "beam" lasers, heating of the air is a problem, as it<BR>can affect the focusing of the beam. <BR><BR>Higher powered lasers don't merely heat air, they convert it to a<BR>plasma (an ionized gas). This causes portions of the beam path to<BR>*glow* (some day I have to track down and scan a picture from an<BR>article I read showed a laser beam in a lab where this was happening.<BR>It looks like a bad special effect!)<BR><BR>This tends to eat up a lot of beam energy. It also tends to make you<BR>rather conspicuous!<BR><BR>&gt; If a ship is hit, does the heat spread throught the damaged sections?<BR><BR>Only if it's a low powered beam laser. A normal *pulse* laser delivers<BR>megajoules of energy in a millisecond or less. Things don't melt, they<BR>explode. <BR><BR>Think "dynamite", not "bonfire". :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:11:50 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who<BR>&gt; &gt; likes Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers inflict<BR>&gt; &gt; their damage by heat, right?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Only low powered ones do.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; High powered lasers do their damage by depositing so much energy in<BR>&gt; the target spot, so fast, that the material *explodes*.<BR><BR>Well, that's heat too ;).&nbsp; Any laser that wants to penetrate armor is going<BR>to need to generate a high degree of focus and burn/blast through, however;<BR>surface explosions are just not an efficient way to penetrate armor.<BR><BR>&gt; Higher powered lasers don't merely heat air, they convert it to a<BR>&gt; plasma (an ionized gas). This causes portions of the beam path to<BR>&gt; *glow* (some day I have to track down and scan a picture from an<BR>&gt; article I read showed a laser beam in a lab where this was happening.<BR>&gt; It looks like a bad special effect!)<BR><BR>Since plasmas are also considerably more opaque than air, it probably means a<BR>real weapons-grade laser would have truly terrible atmospheric range.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:57:49 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers<BR><BR>Thanks! Helps a lot.<BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "John Fox" &lt;jfox@verity.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 8:10 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Dear Jeffery:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Laser 101<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Laser (Light amplified by Simulated Emission of Radiation)<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Take two mirrors (one wioth 100% refelctive mirror at one end of tube<BR>and one<BR>&gt; with 99% (do not know exact amount) at other end.&nbsp; Fill with appropriate<BR>gas<BR>&gt; that give off a certain wavelength of light.&nbsp; Stimulate gas molecules<BR>(somehow)<BR>&gt; and light starts bouncing back and forth between mirrors.&nbsp; Eventually<BR>amout of<BR>&gt; light get enought to come out the 99% end.<BR>&gt; Note: solid state laser I do not know about.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Laser deposit energy onto target (usually in the form of highly<BR>concentrated<BR>&gt; heat).&nbsp; The amount of heat gnerated is of course directly related to the<BR>amount<BR>&gt; of power the laser outputs.&nbsp; The problem with heat spreading is that it<BR>takes<BR>&gt; time.&nbsp; Yes, some of it will spread to the surrounding areas of the ship<BR>but the<BR>&gt; amount relative to what it takes to vaporize the part of the hull is<BR>small.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; There are two effects when a laser hits.&nbsp; 1) Actual parts of the hull get<BR>&gt; vaporized. 2) Shock damage due to the vaporized parts of the hull<BR>expanding<BR>&gt; violently<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; In #1 the part of the hull that the laser hits receives so much heat<BR>that the<BR>&gt; material vaporizes.&nbsp; (We will get to #2 shortly). If this part of the hull<BR>&gt; happens to be where there is an atmosphere the atmosphere will start to<BR>vent<BR>&gt; because you know have a hole out to space. If there part happens to be a<BR>heat<BR>&gt; sensitive item (say liguid hydrogen) this may also start to boil and cause<BR>an<BR>&gt; rapid increase in pressure until it can be relieved (usually by venting<BR>out<BR>&gt; through the hole just made by laser).&nbsp; If the object happens to be a<BR>sensor, you<BR>&gt; jsut lost your sensor.&nbsp; If the object happens to be a solid rocket booster<BR>you<BR>&gt; now have a burning solid rocket booster with a hole you did not design<BR>(and<BR>&gt; hence is not going to act like you want it to).<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Item #2. This is actually what causes a lot of the damage when a laser<BR>hits.<BR>&gt; You have a certain amount of material that is caporized.&nbsp; It has to go<BR>somewhere<BR>&gt; (ie 18 cc of water gets turned into 22,414 cc of water vapor.&nbsp; That is<BR>alot to<BR>&gt; go someplace in a hurry.&nbsp; You get shock waves whole nother section of<BR>physical<BR>&gt; study I am not that familiar with).&nbsp; These shock waves cause damage the<BR>closer<BR>&gt; they are to the point of impact.&nbsp; These shock waves do stuff like destroy<BR>your<BR>&gt; hull area, rupture water (air) type compartments, damage sensitive<BR>equipment,<BR>&gt; mess up the elignment of machinery.&nbsp; In naval terms there is something<BR>called a<BR>&gt; whipping effect. The ship will actually whip around due to the flexing of<BR>the<BR>&gt; hull.&nbsp; If the explosian is big enough this causes equipment to come off of<BR>its<BR>&gt; mountings, throws people (and stuff) around like rag dolls and causes all<BR>sorts<BR>&gt; of damage (and can screw up water tight doors if they are not closed).<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; As to what happens when the laser goes through the atmosphere there are<BR>two<BR>&gt; (actually more) things to worry about. 1) Thermal blooming 2) Particluate<BR>&gt; scatter<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Item #1 Thermal blooming.&nbsp; The laser pulse is short but not<BR>instantaneous.<BR>&gt; There is a duration to it.&nbsp; The laser heats up the atmosphere (after all<BR>it is<BR>&gt; matter) in a column.&nbsp; The matter (air mostly N2 and O2) with heat up and<BR>try to<BR>&gt; expand.&nbsp; This will cause a rapid change in the density of the column of<BR>matter<BR>&gt; the laser is going through (espically if the laser is firing continualy or<BR>in<BR>&gt; rapid brusst at a laiong range target).&nbsp; This changing of density of the<BR>column<BR>&gt; willcause the lasers effectiveness to go down because the laser will ahve<BR>been<BR>&gt; optimized for certain conditions which are now changing. This is more<BR>pronounced<BR>&gt; with partical accelerators so I understand.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Item #2. Particulate scatter.&nbsp; Unless you air is purified (and in the<BR>&gt; atmosphere it is NOT!) there are items in the column of air you wish to<BR>shoot<BR>&gt; the laser through. That insect and dust particaly will for a small<BR>fraction of a<BR>&gt; second be in the way of the laser (not for long though). This causes the<BR>beam to<BR>&gt; lose energy as it goes to the target (afterall it take energy to vaporize<BR>that<BR>&gt; insect) and some of the beam will be scattered (maybe not much but it adds<BR>up).<BR>&gt; The particulate matter will lower the amount of energy delivered to the<BR>target.<BR>&gt; Now if you are doing shooting in the Antartic with a clear night sky the<BR>amount<BR>&gt; of scattering is much less than in the Sahara during a dust storm.&nbsp; Even<BR>if<BR>&gt; there is no dust storm in the Sahara there is more particulate matter<BR>airborne<BR>&gt; there than in the Antartic.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am sure there is some physics student (or laser expert) on the list<BR>who can<BR>&gt; explain this better.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; John W. Fox<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; A software tester.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who<BR>likes<BR>&gt; &gt; Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers inflict their<BR>&gt; &gt; damage by heat, right? If this is true, if you shoot a laser in an<BR>&gt; &gt; atmosphere, does it burn an air trail? If a ship is hit, does the heat<BR>&gt; &gt; spread throught the damaged sections?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:58:13 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>Interesting. Thanks for the info.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 4:30 PM<BR>Subject: Re : cybernetics<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Jeffery Yin wrote :-<BR>&gt; &gt; In short, I'd like to know what people believe the 3I's medical,<BR>genetic, and cybernetic<BR>&gt; &gt; technological capabilities are.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; i. Pharmacology<BR>&gt; Combinatorial pharm and pharmacogenetics lead to the advent of<BR>individually tailored drug treatments. These are progressively refined so<BR>that by TTL 12-13, 'broad spectrum vaccines' and 'antitoxins' are available.<BR>These products provide the equivalent of GURPS Panimmunity, or are similar<BR>to drugs like 'Genericillin'.<BR>&gt; Metabolic control is as per the books, with simple&nbsp; (courses of drugs that<BR>can be used on an outpatient basis) anagathics the high point of TTL 15 drug<BR>tech.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ii. Regeneration/cloning<BR>&gt; Increased growth quickening rates to a maximum of 100:1 across average<BR>TTLs. Initially requirement for invasive implant/explant support to<BR>facilitate organ/limb regeneration (TTL 9-10).<BR>&gt; Nerve refusion able to rejoin optic nerves by TTL 10, spinal cords a TTL<BR>later. By TTL 10, all prosthetics can be fully innervated.<BR>&gt; Whole body regrowth/transplantation possible by TTL 13 (reanimation,<BR>requires intact brain) ; brain recapitulation by TTL 15 (so survival post<BR>cerebrovascular radiation syndrome possible).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; iii. Cybernetics<BR>&gt; Extensive re-engineering of rest of body required for mods with<BR>capabilities beyond the species' norms (e.g. strength/endurance). Increased<BR>sensory capabilities require brain augmentation (TTL13-14) or computer<BR>implants.<BR>&gt; In the Imperium, societal mores (especially anti-psionic attitudes), and<BR>expense limit availability.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; iv. Diagnostics<BR>&gt; Lab boxes first available at TTL 8 increase in capability ; rapid PCR<BR>based microbiological identification TTL 9, rapid pharmaceutical analysis<BR>TTL 10.<BR>&gt; Proliferation of imaging modalities. Scanners get smaller and smarter with<BR>expert systems, leading to development of automeds (medical/surgical<BR>robots).<BR>&gt; Implanted biosensors commonplace by TTL 12. Med scanners rely on these to<BR>acquire vital signs.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; v. Genetic engineering<BR>&gt; The TTL 9-13 period is spent interpreting genome data. Specific treatments<BR>are devised for various conditions ; the high point of expertise is reached<BR>by TTL 14, when uplifting non-sentients becomes possible (very bright<BR>animals like cetacea and great apes).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Perhaps Jeff Zeitlin still has some of my screeds on the Freelance<BR>Traveller site (the medical tech level post might be of interest).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Robert O'Connor<BR>&gt; Medico, Gamer<BR>&gt; This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3297<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:02:27 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:01:35 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA34120;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:59:01 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:58:36 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA34061<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:58:36 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:58:36 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011162058.PAA34061@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3297<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3298</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, November 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3298<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>Re: Government Code<BR>Re: Government Code<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>Digest Mode<BR>RE: Heaven &amp; Earth Temperatures<BR>RE: Government Code<BR>Re: Digest Mode<BR>RE: Heaven &amp; Earth Temperatures<BR>Sayat split personalities<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR>Re: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR>Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR>RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR>Re: cybernetics<BR>Re: Gateway Quadrant<BR>Sectors<BR>re: ZN-15<BR>Laser hazards<BR>Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>The Beowulf<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:59:38 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>I think that would work out pretty well.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 6:09 AM<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, Kelly St.Clair wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:58:05 -0800, "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; "If the artifact is some sort of weapon, it allows domination and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;exploitation of those who do not have similarly advanced means of<BR>defense.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;The Reformation Coalition has adopted the term Technologically Elevated<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Dictator (TED) to describe societies in which a ruler or ruling class<BR>holds<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;power through use of such artifacts." TNE Rulebook, pg. 95<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; A definition which, in one of the choicer ironies of the TNE setting,<BR>&gt; &gt; rather neatly fits the RC itself.&nbsp; They tend to get all defensive if you<BR>&gt; &gt; mention this to them, though.&nbsp; And you don't want to annoy someone in<BR>RCES<BR>&gt; &gt; battledress.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In practice, a TED seems to be anyone who stands in the way of the RC<BR>and<BR>&gt; &gt; their Hiver masters to assim^H^H^H^H^Hrebuild Civilization, and has the<BR>&gt; &gt; tech to make it a halfway fair fight.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; To mangle a few phrases together:&nbsp; history books are written by the guy<BR>&gt; &gt; with the bigger battalions.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As my ignorance of Technologically Elevated Dictatorships suggests, I am<BR>&gt; not really a "New Era" player, but I recently purchased "Pocket Empires,"<BR>&gt; but there is a certain sad futility in running an empire-building campaign<BR>&gt; in "Milleu 0" (since the Third Imperium is destined to gobble up whatever<BR>&gt; you build), and the blank canvas and uncharted future of the "New Era"<BR>&gt; looked more promising.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Basically, I envision a campaign set in a parallel universe in which the<BR>&gt; Domain of Deneb *wasn't* able to keep the Virus out, but delayed it just<BR>&gt; long enough to set up a "Morrow Project" intended to "thaw out" and begin<BR>&gt; rebuilding interstellar civilization as soon as the worst of the Virus<BR>&gt; burned itself out.&nbsp; Of course, a few worlds in the Spinward Marches<BR>&gt; survived the Collapse and began rebuilding on their own, and they might<BR>&gt; not take kindly to a pack of well-equipped Rip Van Winkles claiming to be<BR>&gt; the legitimate successors of the Third Imperium and getting in the way.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So that's why I was interested in Technologically Elevated Dictatorships,<BR>&gt; and all the other peculiar governments found in the post-Collapse Wilds.<BR>&gt; Am I correct in thinking that the best way to solve this problem would be<BR>&gt; to "translate" all those "New Era" government types into their nearest<BR>&gt; "Classic/T4" equivalents, for the sake of easy compatibility with the<BR>&gt; "Pocket Empires" rules?&nbsp; Do the "New Era" players who may be reading this<BR>&gt; think that too much of the "flavor" of post-Collapse government would be<BR>&gt; lost by using such a technique?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:00:04 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>Well, IMTU that is what they do.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 6:10 AM<BR>Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The code for TEDs, and presumably the other non standard government types<BR>on<BR>&gt; the Wilds table, I always assumed was to reflect the classifications<BR>handed<BR>&gt; out by the Reformation Coalition. Presumably the Regency would continue to<BR>&gt; use the standard imperial government codes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Antony<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:03:41 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Government Code<BR><BR>On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; Does it seem odd to anyone that a religious dictator ship is government D <BR>&gt; when historically its been the small, primitive tribes that are like this? <BR>&gt; What I'm proposing is switching govs 3 and D, which makes governments A-D <BR>&gt; progress like this:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Charismatic Dictator<BR>&gt; B&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Non-charismatic Leader<BR>&gt; C&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Charismatic Oligarchy<BR>&gt; D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Self-perpetuating Oligarchy<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And, to solve the problem of religious dictatorships suddenly being given a <BR>&gt; lower law level due to lower gov number, just add another rule: If the gov <BR>&gt; type is 3, apply a DM of +10 to the law level roll. This makes the law <BR>&gt; levels for religious dicatatorships the same without a world having to have <BR>&gt; a large population to have them.<BR><BR>The only problem with this scheme is that there has got to be *something*<BR>to represent the governments of low-population worlds which are neither<BR>anarchic/tribal (0), corporate (1), democratic (2), nor elected (4).&nbsp; The<BR>"Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy (3)" currently fills that niche.<BR><BR>Frankly, I'd eliminate the "Religious Dictatorship" entirely.&nbsp; A<BR>theocratic government could take just about *any* form.&nbsp; A granola-eating,<BR>tie-dye-wearing, folk-song-singing, Nature-worshipping commune would be<BR>type 0, or type 2.&nbsp; A heretic-burning, Inqusition-ridden government might<BR>be type A (if the people love the God-King), or type B (if they don't).<BR>"Religion" is a vague word, which means different things to different<BR>cultures.&nbsp; In, for instance, the ancient world, belief was usually <BR>less important than carrying out the rites and ceremonies properly.&nbsp; On<BR>the other hand, it's completely possible for a government to be officially<BR>atheistic, yet to cultivate irrational and fanatical ideologies.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:08:21 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Government Code<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The only problem with this scheme is that there has got to be *something*<BR>&gt;to represent the governments of low-population worlds which are neither<BR>&gt;anarchic/tribal (0), corporate (1), democratic (2), nor elected (4).&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;"Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy (3)" currently fills that niche.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Frankly, I'd eliminate the "Religious Dictatorship" entirely.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt;theocratic government could take just about *any* form.&nbsp; A granola-eating,<BR>&gt;tie-dye-wearing, folk-song-singing, Nature-worshipping commune would be<BR>&gt;type 0, or type 2.&nbsp; A heretic-burning, Inqusition-ridden government might<BR>&gt;be type A (if the people love the God-King), or type B (if they don't).<BR>&gt;"Religion" is a vague word, which means different things to different<BR>&gt;cultures.&nbsp; In, for instance, the ancient world, belief was usually<BR>&gt;less important than carrying out the rites and ceremonies properly.&nbsp; On<BR>&gt;the other hand, it's completely possible for a government to be officially<BR>&gt;atheistic, yet to cultivate irrational and fanatical ideologies.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Good point. Then what should type D be? Should we copy 3 or do something <BR>different?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:09 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;3.0.1.32.20001116132253.009b8cf0@mail.btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I think that the TU legal system - or at least that of the Imperium - is <BR>likely to be two-tier.<BR><BR>There will be the overarching Imperial Law, which governs the Imperial <BR>Military, interplanetary relations and trade, and reaches down into some <BR>aspects of planetary law. Things like the core of criminal law - the <BR>things that are illegal everywhere (murder, rape, theft....). And of <BR>course, treason, sedition, all those fun things. Imperial Constitutional <BR>Law, too.<BR><BR>Then each planet will have its own body of laws. For a start, those <BR>relating to its 'law level'.... as we all know, things legal in one place <BR>are not permitted in another. In many cases the Imperial 'take' will be <BR>more-or-less copied verbatim into the planetary legal code. Planetary law <BR>may not run contrary to Imperial Law, if there is an Imperial Law about <BR>something the planet cannot legislate against this. (Obviously, I'm <BR>talking about planets which have joined the Imperium here!)<BR><BR>I would think that a lawyer will need to pass a 'bar exam' for the planet <BR>on which he wishes to hang out his shingle. Imperial Law will be covered <BR>in all law degrees taken within the Imperium, and some folk will choose to <BR>study that in great detail, others will just pick up the bits which will <BR>be of use in a planet-based practice.<BR><BR>If you want to get complicated, you can have legal codes applicable to <BR>sectors and sub-sectors as well.<BR><BR>You also need to consider the route of an appeal against any judgement. As <BR>bloo said, if he wants to appear before the US Supreme Court, as a <BR>qualified lawyer he can. So can any duly-qualified Imperium lawyer.... the <BR>route of an appeal is probably something like: -<BR><BR>1. Planetry Supreme Court<BR>2. Sub-sector Supreme Court<BR>3. Sector Supreme Court - and it is extremely unlikely and at that&nbsp; a case <BR>involving a really fundemental point of law which goes any further. (Or, <BR>if you give your Nobles priviledges, maybe a case involving one <BR>personally!)<BR><BR>A few thoughts - what do you all think?<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>"Make 2 lawyers happy, sue someone today!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:09 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;000b01c04f99$82cae720$3200a8c0@jeff&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts, especially Jeffrey.<BR><BR>TRAVELLER medicine has advanced to such a point that cybernetics as <BR>replacement/repair is not often necessary. There are various ways in which <BR>you may interpret this: -<BR><BR>1. Culturing or cloning of body parts... so you have a diseased heart, we <BR>keep you alive while we take some cells from your body and force-grow one <BR>totally compatible with you (because it IS you) in vitro over a couple of <BR>months, and then implant it surgically. This would be perfectly legal <BR>within the normal bounds of medical practice (i.e. the doctors need to be <BR>qualified M.D., etc.)<BR><BR>2. Whole-body cloning... available only to the very rich, a complete body <BR>is maintained on life-support (the brain being the one bit not grown, in <BR>effect it's in a permanent vegetative state) and parts may be taken as and <BR>when required. Again no compatibility problems. This may or may not be <BR>legal, and even when legal may be frowned upon, raise ethical questions, <BR>etc.<BR><BR>3. An enhanced version of contemporary organ-donation practices, with <BR>improved treatment protocols to minimise rejection problems. This is <BR>probably legal (assuming you go to a reputable clinic, there are doubtless <BR>'organ-leggers' to be found of far lesser legality!).<BR><BR>4. Synthetic organs - here we verge on cybernetics, but these would <BR>primarily be internal - replacement hearts, maybe cochlear implants, <BR>replacement optic nerves, that kinda thing.<BR><BR>5. For limb-replacements, it is likely that bio-mechanics have advanced to <BR>such a state that a functional and 'natural-looking' false leg or whatever <BR>can be manufactured. Using cloned skin and flesh overlays it will be <BR>almost unnoticeable short of a full-body scan or close medical <BR>examination. Enter the Bionic Man... these could be manufactured with <BR>enhanced capabilities, if you want to pay the price!<BR><BR>6. Alternatively, you may wish to allow the development of sophisticated <BR>treatments that re-enable growth and regeneration in higher animals such <BR>as the sentient races of the TU. So when you are severely damaged, you get <BR>a course of injections and sit around itching furiously and eating a lot <BR>while you actually REGROW the hand that was sliced off.<BR><BR>While it's likely that it is possible to make 'cyberware', its use is <BR>frowned upon. Uses may include military/mercenary units, where the <BR>enhanced functionality and durability outweighs the detrimental <BR>appearance... but it ain't much fun once you've retired, that metal arm <BR>becomes an embarassment...<BR><BR>Well, a few ideas anyway. Any help?<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:10:49 -0800<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>Let me answer your question before addressing the government codes. TEDs are<BR>marked also by an inability to sustain their greater tech level. In<BR>addition, while they may possess all of the high tech on the world, it is<BR>only their military technological capabilities that make them TEDs.<BR><BR>Now, on to my take on the government codes. *If* you believe, as the RC<BR>does, that the unique situations in the Wilds deserves a deviation from the<BR>standard Imperial gov. codes, then TEDs are unique, as opposed to the other<BR>codes. While TEDs may or may not be 3,11, 15 (depending on the local social<BR>conditons), those government codes fail to describe the phenomenum of wide<BR>spread domination via the ruins of the previous civilization. Because the<BR>TED is so prominent, and they achieve their rule in a unique method, I feel<BR>there is some value in setting them apart.<BR><BR>As to government code 5, Feudal Technocracy, a TED does not qualify by<BR>definition. FTechs are based on a mutually beneficial social contract. To<BR>qoute TNE page 188, "Government by specific individuals for those who agree<BR>to be ruled. Relationships are based on the performance of technical<BR>activities which are mutually beneficial." This establishes a profound<BR>difference betweed Ftechs and TEDs, in theory. I do agree, however, that in<BR>practice there is likely little difference.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 7:53 AM<BR>Subject: RE: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; The code for TEDs, and presumably the other non standard government<BR>&gt; &gt; types on the Wilds table, I always assumed was to reflect the<BR>&gt; &gt; classifications handed out by the Reformation Coalition. Presumably<BR>&gt; &gt; the Regency would continue to use the standard imperial government<BR>&gt; &gt; codes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So in other words "Technologically Elevated Dictatorships" *can* be<BR>&gt; safely reclassified as "Self-Perpetuating Oligarchies (3)," "Feudal<BR>&gt; Technocracies (5)," "Non-Charismatic Dictatorships (11)" and<BR>&gt; "Totalitarian Oligarchies (15)."&nbsp; Other than hostility towards<BR>&gt; off-worlders who threaten their technological monopolies, do TEDs have<BR>&gt; any other notable characteristics that would effect their behavior in<BR>&gt; a "Pocket Empires" campaign?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:35:08 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Digest Mode<BR><BR>I've just subscribed the the digest mode of traveller at another email <BR>address (cheebzero@email.com), and I was wondering: How often I should <BR>expect to get digests?<BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:54:53 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Heaven &amp; Earth Temperatures<BR><BR>Bob Kovalchick writes:<BR>&gt;I'm using the latest version of H&amp;E (MT rules) and it seems like I get a lot<BR>&gt;of extreme temperatures for worlds.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;Perhaps a 767 world isn't going to be a "habitable" world very often?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I would suggest that a world with atmosphere 6 should generally<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; be in the habitable zone or near to it.&nbsp; First of all, it is easier to<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; explain how you got all that oxygen in the first place (I would expect<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; extensive plant life on worlds with temperatures of -200 C or 1000 C<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to be rare).&nbsp; Second, a type 6 atmosphere is supposed to allow<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; breathing by humans without any special equipment.&nbsp; Air at -200 C<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; doesn't fall into this category.&nbsp; In fact, I have a number of worlds<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; IMTU that are considered atmosphere B or even C based entirely on<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the temperature.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:01:04 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Government Code<BR><BR>James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt;Does it seem odd to anyone that a religious dictator ship is government D <BR>&gt;when historically its been the small, primitive tribes that are like this? <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I'm not sure that this is true.&nbsp; Others have pointed out a couple of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; examples.&nbsp; Also keep in mind that the government types are not<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; meant to express the way that a goverment actually works, rather<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; they are meant to reflect the way that characters are likely to be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; treated on those worlds.<BR><BR>&gt;What I'm proposing is switching govs 3 and D, which makes governments A-D <BR>&gt;progress like this:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;So, what do you think?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Well, if you like cans of worms...&nbsp; Any simple linear system of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; government types is going to be debatable, but if you are more<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; comfortable with the one that you suggest, then why not?<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:20:32 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Digest Mode<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've just subscribed the the digest mode of traveller at another email<BR>&gt; address (cheebzero@email.com), and I was wondering: How often I should<BR>&gt; expect to get digests?<BR><BR>On average days, I receive 3-5 digests per day (I subscribe to the<BR>digest version so I can check the TML while away from my own computer).<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:20:36 EST<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Heaven &amp; Earth Temperatures<BR><BR>&gt;to be rare).&nbsp; Second, a type 6 atmosphere is supposed to allow<BR>&gt;breathing by humans without any special equipment.&nbsp; Air at -200 C<BR>&gt;doesn't fall into this category.<BR><BR>Especially considering that oxygen liquifies at -183 C. One's special <BR>breathing equipment would have to be a straw.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:24:18 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Sayat split personalities<BR><BR>So I gather that the Sayat may well end up in print for G:T.&nbsp; I'm <BR>naturally delighted to learn of the newest Sayat toehold in a Wicked <BR>Heretical Traveller Universe -- in which, as with all Traveller <BR>Universes, they will of course soon crush all animalistic <BR>heterocratic states (such as the Third Imperium) and uplift their <BR>probably-sentient inhabitants to the level of full civilization.<BR><BR>However, I'm still concerned about their place in the One True <BR>Traveller Universe, i.e., the Classical Neo-MegaTraveller timeline. <BR>So, rather than work on the Vilani Reference Grammar or some pesky <BR>conference paper over the Thanksgiving break, I'm going to sit myself <BR>down with a couple pounds of legal and chic caffeine-based <BR>stimulants, a stack of Gang of Four and Tribe 8 with the volume <BR>turned up to "11", and whip up a new, improved, updated "Sayat sans <BR>Strephon Resource" (yes, an SSSR).&nbsp; Complete with a new warship of <BR>unprintable inspiration and function!<BR><BR>Stay tuned; suggested "features" are welcome!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:58:23 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>&gt; While it's likely that it is possible to make 'cyberware', its use is<BR>&gt; frowned upon. Uses may include military/mercenary units, where the<BR>&gt; enhanced functionality and durability outweighs the detrimental<BR>&gt; appearance... but it ain't much fun once you've retired, that metal arm<BR>&gt; becomes an embarassment...<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>What about if it doesn't show?&nbsp; False eye that includes LI? Synthetic nerves<BR>for faster reaction times? Detoxifier between the stomach and intestines?<BR>Hey, retractable claws might be handy. It strikes me that the social stigma<BR>of synthetics may be an off-shoot of Vilani conservatism.&nbsp; Maybe some non-3I<BR>worlds find it acceptable.<BR><BR>IMTU, high tech agents and such find such mods usefull, if not essential.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:52:04 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR><BR>Rob Myers wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On Thursday, November 16, 2000, at 10:02 AM, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Crusade series (which wasn't *that* bad,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No, it was far far worse than that.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Does anybody remember the B5 pilot movie?...now compare that to series 3 or 4. Difference?<BR>yup...the first series of *anything* is going to be out of contention quality wise with later<BR>series...Crusade had promise, you can't judge anything by it's first series...<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:43:17 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Pocket Empires" in the New Era<BR><BR>On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:14:39 -0500 (EST), "Jeffrey Yin"<BR>&lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Yeah, sorry for the delay.<BR><BR>&gt;TNE has actually left 6 and 7 in place as captive government and<BR>&gt;balkanization, respectively. However, gov. type 6 is much more common in TNE<BR>&gt;due to the rise of TEDs following the collapse of the Imperium.<BR><BR>I think that in both CT/MT and TNE, GOV 6 was also used for military<BR>government (Burma/Myanmar today would be a 6 - it's not owned by anyone<BR>else, but its own military staged a coup and now governs the country).<BR><BR>7 was changed in TNE to TED; balkanization was indicated by a B in what in<BR>CT/MT was the Travel Zone column.&nbsp; On a balkanized world, the GOV code<BR>indicated the predominant form of government among the world's<BR>nation-states.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 00:30:38 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR><BR>At 10:39 16.11.00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Is Lexx out on DVD? I've not found it anywhere.<BR>&gt;&gt;Ive seen it in Germany, but only with the german lamnguage track<BR>&gt;&gt;and one of the episodes on the second DVD has been shortened<BR>&gt;&gt;for an unknown reason<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Wouldn't putting both the German and English tracks on the DVD be the sort <BR>&gt;of thing the marketing people are telling us we should buy DVD systems for?<BR><BR>yup, but very often licensing problems (i.e. cost) has locval companies <BR>omit the original track and only leave the dub. Or in other cases, the <BR>english track is included, but the subs cant be turened off. And even <BR>others have all the languages they can fit onto the DVD. Go figure!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 00:17 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: cybernetics<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;003601c05020$b9af1a90$1601a8c0@SMIUS.COM&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>After sending that message, I had some further thoughts.<BR><BR>It's likely, given the sheer size of the TU, that views on the use of <BR>cybernetics will vary greatly from planet to planet.<BR><BR>It is also likely that certain modifications will be accepted, for <BR>example, replacement eyes (which are likely to be extremely tricky to grow <BR>in vitro) - after all, anyone sporting a pair could claim to have been <BR>born visually impaired and just fail to mention the miniturised camera and <BR>video-sender embedded in his orbit!<BR><BR>As Tod says, implants which don't show are even more likely to be used by <BR>those who feel comfortable with them (or whose superiors demand it!). <BR><BR>The interesting times begin when you visit a world where even minimal <BR>augmentation is frowned upon. Shunned in the street, hassled by the <BR>authorities, perhaps setting off security scanners... *tee* *hee*<BR><BR>Maybe a crime will be committed... and our enhanced heroes will be prime <BR>suspects just because they are enhanced.... Hey, it's almost tempting to <BR>allow players to have these things just so that you can, erm, play with <BR>them later :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:51:57 -0500<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gateway Quadrant<BR><BR>Judges Guild is not reprinting the Traveller stuff, as far as I have heard.<BR>They did sell some old stock, I guess, but I have not heard of them<BR>receiving license to publish. Since their web site evaporated, it's hard to<BR>tell what is going on with them.&nbsp; :-/<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Allan Robinson" &lt;allan@crusoe.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt; Quadrant campaign.&nbsp; However, a trawl of the Traveller webring indicates<BR>&gt; that the Judges Guild published material is considered non-canon, and that<BR>&gt; there is some incomplete GDW (?) sector data for Ley Sector and<BR>&gt; Glimmerdrift Reaches but none for Gateway(Maranantha-Alkahest in JG) or<BR>&gt; Crucis Margin.&nbsp; Since Judges Guild is now up and running again, and<BR>&gt; reprinting its' old Traveller titles, does this make there license valid<BR>&gt; again, and if so what to do about the borders between Gateway Quadrant and<BR>&gt; the rest of Known Space.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:19:50 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Sectors<BR><BR>Question: Where can I find info (more than maps, mind you) for FREE on the <BR>following sectors (Year c.1100):<BR><BR>Deneb<BR>Trojan Reach<BR>Reft<BR>Core<BR>Antares<BR><BR>I thought knowing a little bit about the subsector lore might help me run <BR>campaigns there.<BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_____________________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get more from the Web.&nbsp; FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:15:31 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: ZN-15<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: ZN-15<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Was just looking through my copy of Fighting Ships, does any one know what<BR>&gt;was so special about the ZN-15. What was this ship designed to do? etc. For<BR>&gt;a TL15 design the ship seems a sitting duck. Its the size of a large<BR>&gt;cruiser. But has a 1G drive and j3 capacity. It also has a black globe<BR>&gt;generator, which given what appears to be in inherant weakness of the ship<BR>&gt;seems like a good way to let it fall into enemy hands. Any idead?<BR><BR>&nbsp; Jump L-Hyd % is what?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:22:04 -0800<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Laser hazards<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law student who<BR>likes<BR>&gt;&gt; Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers inflict their<BR>&gt;&gt; damage by heat, right?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Only low powered ones do.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;High powered lasers do their damage by depositing so much energy in<BR>&gt;the target spot, so fast, that the material *explodes*.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; For what it's worth, medical lasers emit an infared wavelength that<BR>is absorbed by water; this causes the fluids inside the cells of the tissue<BR>to boil and explode.&nbsp; The beam is very tightly focused so they are able to<BR>destroy tiny amounts of tissue at a time.&nbsp; Unfortunately, this wavelength is<BR>also absorbed by plastics and many other materials, which has led to some<BR>messy accidents.&nbsp; There was at least one case during a vocal-cord surgery<BR>where the beam nicked the airway tube.&nbsp; The plastic ignited, since it was<BR>carrying oxygen, and created a blowtorch-like flame later determined to be<BR>up to 10 inches long....and aiming straight into the patient's lungs.&nbsp; When<BR>a laboratory later tried to test the temperature of the flame, it melted the<BR>thermocouple.&nbsp; There have been other cases of fires involving boxes and<BR>surgical drapes being ignited by stray shots from the laser.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; All this was from an old issue (Oct 1998) of Photonics Spectra.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 20:23:30 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>Megan Robertson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; There will be the overarching Imperial Law, which governs the Imperial<BR>&gt; Military, interplanetary relations and trade, and reaches down into some<BR>&gt; aspects of planetary law. Things like the core of criminal law - the<BR>&gt; things that are illegal everywhere (murder, rape, theft....).<BR><BR>These things aren't illegal everywhere.&nbsp; The only things illegal everywhere<BR>are (1) Chattel Slavery and (2) Weapons of Mass Destruction (presumably<BR>their use, though maybe their possession).<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:15:12 CST<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The Beowulf<BR><BR>I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but I've found a reference to the <BR>Free Trader _Beowulf_. THE Free Trader _Beowulf_! It's mentioned in "Exit <BR>Visa".<BR><BR>So, in comment to someone's question about the fate of the ship: since Exit <BR>Visa start on 300-1105, and the LLBs originally came out two years before <BR>Supplement 3 (and the years progressed parallel to real time), I would say <BR>that it was just fine (although this would be an interesting follow-up to <BR>said adventure).<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3298<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.5]) by air-zb02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:24:46 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:24:04 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA66165;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:19:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:15:46 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA65602<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:15:46 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:15:46 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200011170315.WAA65602@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3298<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3299</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>11/17/00 5:08:39 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, November 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3299<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: GT Sector Books<BR>Re: Gateway Quadrant<BR>Re: Cybernetics<BR>RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>RE: Lasers<BR>RE: Re : Backflow preventers (was Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR>Re: Couple of Things<BR>RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR>RE: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR>RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>RE: Meson Communications<BR>A GURPS-related question<BR>RE: A GURPS-related question<BR>Re: GT Sector Books<BR>Re: More Traveller Law<BR>Re: Heaven &amp; Earth Temperatures<BR>RE: Meson Communications<BR>Re: Meson Communications<BR>RE: Laser hazards<BR>RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>RE: Sectors<BR>Re: GT Sector Books<BR>RE: Andromeda<BR>Re: Sectors<BR>RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR>RE: Sectors<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:41:28 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Sector Books<BR><BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" <BR>&gt; I don't even play GT, but if they'd do a book on the Core sector, I'd <BR>&gt; probably get it in a hurry.<BR><BR>I was thinking about this this morning.&nbsp; Core has some obvious issues of<BR>being very civilised, with the fun police never too far away, but worlds<BR>are big places, and there would be room for all kinds of interesting stuff.<BR><BR>Capital would deserve a chapter of its own...<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:40:30 -0600<BR>From: ybrekp@mtco.com<BR>Subject: Re: Gateway Quadrant<BR><BR>Quoting Traveller-digest &lt;owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com&gt;:<BR><BR>For info on what is new with Judges guild, try http://www.rpgrealms.com/<BR><BR>JG has partnered with the Grip folks.<BR><BR>Keep Travellin'<BR>Kerby<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:51:57 -0500<BR>&gt; From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Gateway Quadrant<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Judges Guild is not reprinting the Traveller stuff, as far as I have<BR>&gt; heard.<BR>&gt; They did sell some old stock, I guess, but I have not heard of them<BR>&gt; receiving license to publish. Since their web site evaporated, it's hard<BR>&gt; to<BR>&gt; tell what is going on with them.&nbsp; :-/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Allan Robinson" &lt;allan@crusoe.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Quadrant campaign.&nbsp; However, a trawl of the Traveller webring<BR>&gt; indicates<BR>&gt; &gt; that the Judges Guild published material is considered non-canon, and<BR>&gt; that<BR>&gt; &gt; there is some incomplete GDW (?) sector data for Ley Sector and<BR>&gt; &gt; Glimmerdrift Reaches but none for Gateway(Maranantha-Alkahest in JG)<BR>&gt; or<BR>&gt; &gt; Crucis Margin.&nbsp; Since Judges Guild is now up and running again, and<BR>&gt; &gt; reprinting its' old Traveller titles, does this make there license<BR>&gt; valid<BR>&gt; &gt; again, and if so what to do about the borders between Gateway Quadrant<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; &gt; the rest of Known Space.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 23:19:50 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cybernetics<BR><BR>On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:10:56 -0500 (EST), robocon@ozemail.com.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Perhaps Jeff Zeitlin still has some of my screeds on the Freelance<BR>&gt;Traveller site (the medical tech level post might be of interest).<BR><BR>If that was part of the 9-part Medicine in Traveller series, it'll still be<BR>there.&nbsp; "Doing It My Way", IIRC, but at some point I should probably<BR>cross-link it to Lecture Hall and Library or The Lab Ship.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:52:05 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>&gt; Anybody ever use the toilet in a submarine?<BR><BR>I tried but the marine guard wouldn't eve let me in the submarine, let alone<BR>use the toilet.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 20:48:51 -0800<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lasers<BR><BR>Homework problem to clarify how lasers behave in Traveller:<BR><BR>1. Assume that the damage of a laser weapon in TNE is propoprtional to the<BR>beam energy. Use the TNE laser weapon damage tables to estimate the complex<BR>index of refraction of air at the laser's frequency. What is the likely<BR>source of this interaction with the atmosphere? What atmospheric window is<BR>probably being used for the low-TL lasers? Are the TL 13+ weapons probably<BR>visible or invisible wavelengths?<BR><BR>2. Use the value estimated in part 1 to estimate the of energy from a laser<BR>rifle which will be reflected back at the user. Suggest a way of minimizing<BR>this effect. What are its limitations?<BR><BR>3. Estimate the fraction of the energy from a laser rifle beam which will be<BR>converted into acoustic energy. Use this value&nbsp; to estimate how loud a laser<BR>rifle shot is. Recall that for acoustics, 20 uPa is the reference for<BR>decibels. What sort of hearing protection would a laser rifle user need?<BR><BR>4. Assume that a laser rifle produces a gaussian beam. Estimate how big the<BR>beam will be at the different combat ranges.<BR><BR>5. What pulse duration is needed to avoid photoionization of the atmosphere<BR>by a laser rifle pulse?<BR><BR>6. How will a ship's laser behave if fired in a planet's atmosphere?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:29:16 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Re : Backflow preventers (was Gas Mixtures for Travellers)<BR><BR>robocon@ozemail.com.au wrote :<BR>&gt; The tales of people being eviscerated by plumbing are based on real cases.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There have been quite a number of incidents where<BR>&gt; children have sat on inground pool skimmer boxes<BR>&gt; (a lot of them look like potty chairs), sustaining horrific injuries.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This has led to significant design changes here in Australia.<BR><BR>Ditto New Zealand. Also spa baths have had simialr problems here.<BR><BR>And then there was the guy who wondered whether the suction would feel<BR>good...<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:21:41 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Couple of Things<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Jim wrote:<BR>&gt;Anyone want to hazard a code number for Government in this case.<BR><BR>Govt Type "S", for "Stupidity".<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:49:26 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Law Levels, gauss weapons and explosive rounds<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Okay, so how did you pronounce it and how does&nbsp; Craig&nbsp; reckon&nbsp; it<BR>&gt; &gt;should be pronounced?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Gaw-ss, sounding like "caw" or "ma."&nbsp; The allegedly correct <BR>&gt; pronouncition<BR>&gt; is "gows," like "cows."<BR>&gt; -- <BR><BR><BR>"caw-ma"...isn't that a kind of mild, coconut-flavoured curry? ;p<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:53:18 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Beowulf facts ASAP<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "John P. Raynor" wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Uh...isn't the "Beowulf" mentioned in one of the adventure <BR>&gt; seeds in the<BR>&gt; &gt; "T4" supplement entitled "Imperial Squadrons?"&nbsp; On the <BR>&gt; other hand, it's<BR>&gt; &gt; entirely possible that there's more than one ship with that name...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Confirmed. The adventure seed does not, however, contain any <BR>&gt; additional<BR>&gt; information about the ship.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>OK, I took a loot through JTAS25 (the first of the Imperium games issues,<BR>and the first Loren wasn't editor) and the item I was thinking of was some<BR>T4(I think) fanfic in which a ship is sending out the famous Beowulf Mayday<BR>as part of some nefarious plot or other. <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:04:07 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Considering that various worlds are going to have been <BR>&gt; colonized at various <BR>&gt; different times, I would think something similar would have <BR>&gt; cropped up in <BR>&gt; the 3I. Colonists of New Colony 17 look around and say "Hmmm. <BR>&gt; Colony 3 has <BR>&gt; been quite successful, except for that unfortunate incident <BR>&gt; with the Space <BR>&gt; Anteaters. Let's borrow their colonization plan: government <BR>&gt; structure, laws, <BR>&gt; etc."<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>True, but lets not forget break away colonies, where the intent is to do<BR>things differantly...the best example that comes to mind is from the<BR>Simpsons...in the Tale of the founding of Springfield and Shelbeyville, the<BR>Shelbeyvillains for their own town because they want to marry their cousins<BR>:)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:07:04 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR><BR>Apply the same rules as for TEMPEST equipment<BR><BR>DEan<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Ian Ferguson [mailto:ian@vax2.concordia.ca]<BR>&gt; Sent: 16 November 2000 18:17<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Once these mesons break down and release their energy, is it <BR>&gt; possible to<BR>&gt; read the information content in the released radiation?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Peez<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 01:06:04 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: A GURPS-related question<BR><BR>Folks-<BR><BR>Might anyone here have access to the old out-of-print supplement <BR>GURPS Ice Age?&nbsp; If so, could you post or email me the stats for <BR>Neanderthals.&nbsp; This info has direct Traveller implications which you <BR>will all hopefully benefit from.<BR><BR>Many Thanks-<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:06:39 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: A GURPS-related question<BR><BR>Got it at home...I'll mail it to you later. BTW...most of Ice Age is<BR>contained in the In Print GURPS Dinosaurs, and Dinosaurs is more accurate.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 November 2000 09:06<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: A GURPS-related question<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Folks-<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Might anyone here have access to the old out-of-print supplement <BR>&gt; GURPS Ice Age?&nbsp; If so, could you post or email me the stats for <BR>&gt; Neanderthals.&nbsp; This info has direct Traveller implications which you <BR>&gt; will all hopefully benefit from.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Many Thanks-<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:44:33 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Sector Books<BR><BR>On Fri, 17 Nov 2000, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; From: "James Jensen" <BR>&gt; &gt; I don't even play GT, but if they'd do a book on the Core sector, I'd <BR>&gt; &gt; probably get it in a hurry.<BR>&gt; I was thinking about this this morning.&nbsp; Core has some obvious issues of<BR>&gt; being very civilised, with the fun police never too far away, but worlds<BR>&gt; are big places, and there would be room for all kinds of interesting stuff.<BR><BR>Think of palace intrigue. <BR><BR>Core could be a very, very interesting place to play in. Traveller might<BR>not be just laser guns and weird aliens...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:45:29 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: More Traveller Law<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 20:23:30 -0600<BR>&gt;From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: More Traveller Jobs-Law<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Megan Robertson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; There will be the overarching Imperial Law, which governs the Imperial<BR>&gt;&gt; Military, interplanetary relations and trade, and reaches down into some<BR>&gt;&gt; aspects of planetary law. Things like the core of criminal law - the<BR>&gt;&gt; things that are illegal everywhere (murder, rape, theft....).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;These things aren't illegal everywhere.&nbsp; The only things illegal everywhere<BR>&gt;are (1) Chattel Slavery and (2) Weapons of Mass Destruction (presumably<BR>&gt;their use, though maybe their possession).<BR><BR>You forgot (3) piracy, (4) smuggling, and (5) issuing letters of marque and<BR>reprisal (by member worlds). I'm not sure where (6) discriminating against<BR>Imperial citizens, (7) calendar violations, and (8) using non-SI<BR>measurements fall in the spectrum of heinous acts, but they are also<BR>prohibited.<BR><BR>There are Imperial laws, and regulations with the force of law:<BR><BR>"Member worlds shall govern themselves as they see proper, provided that<BR>such government does not violate Imperial laws."&nbsp; Warrant of Restoration,<BR>Art. I<BR><BR>Named Laws and Regulations:<BR><BR>Imperial Freight Regulations (Ch #31, p. 21)<BR>Imperial Navigation Act of 103 (Adv 13, p. 46, et al.) <BR>Imperial Safety Regulations (JTAS #5, p. 31)<BR>Official Secrets Act (JTAS #4, p. 13)/"Imperial secrets laws" (Adv 13, p. 11)<BR>Imperial Code of Military Justice (ICMJ, JTAS #10, p. 31)<BR>salvage laws (JTAS #1, p. 30)<BR><BR>"Assisting a deserter is punishable by 15 years confinement in an Imperial<BR>penal institution."&nbsp; Supplement 6, 76 Patrons, p. 23. (1980)<BR><BR>"...many of the books are unavailable to ordinary individuals, being<BR>psionics instruction texts or books banned by the Imperium."&nbsp; Adventure 2,<BR>Research Station Gamma, p. 21. (1980)<BR><BR>"Six Eyes Nest: Warbots produced at Six Eyes installations are deadly.<BR>Import of these warbots into the Imperium is a high justice crime."&nbsp; Book<BR>8, Robots, p. 16. (1986) <BR><BR>It is unclear whether the crimes that Mexal mentions (murder, rape, etc.)<BR>are covered by Imperial law. Certainly, though, Imperial officials have<BR>been sacked over lesser actions:<BR><BR>"Charges were brought against Urshukaan after his post was taken over by an<BR>Imperial appointee. These accusations of excessive force, violation of<BR>various sophont rights codes, and embezzlement of tax revenues were<BR>dismissed."&nbsp; Adventure 11, Murder on Arcturus Station, p. 26. (1983)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:08:49 -0000<BR>From: "Stuart Ferris" &lt;stuart.ferris@virgin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Heaven &amp; Earth Temperatures<BR><BR>&gt;I'm using the latest version of H&amp;E (MT rules) and it seems like I get a<BR>lot<BR>&gt;of extreme temperatures for worlds. Especially M class stars (-200+ degrees<BR>&gt;C!). I've looked on the net (and found a chat log with the Berry's) but<BR>&gt;haven't really found any info on this issue. Is it an error with the rules?<BR>&gt;(MT, WBH, etc. I still haven't quite figured out the Scouts Book 6 temp<BR>&gt;formula, I need help on that) With the program? Or, do Travellers really<BR>&gt;need that cold/hot weather clothing from their ships locker?<BR><BR>The problem is without doubt with the original rules. The rules for<BR>habitable zone placement does not always generate a zone which has habitable<BR>temperatures.<BR><BR>I am currently working on a editor which will allow users to edit all of the<BR>data generated on the worlds.<BR><BR>You will be able to swap planetary bodies orbital positions, orbital<BR>distance, stellar luminosity etc. In the initial release of the editor<BR>changes will only effect the respective piece of data, but the version after<BR>will include knock on effects, i.e. changing stellar luminosity will also<BR>change base temperature.<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris<BR>stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 03:04:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Meson Communications<BR><BR>IIRC, the receiver is the device which slows down the mesons, causing<BR>them to decay and releasing their information.&nbsp; Therefore, the meson<BR>communicator could be set for "infinity" range without problem.<BR><BR>- --- "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Nooo... a meson gun is a 'beam' weapon - the 'beam' does not <BR>&gt; &gt; teleport - it<BR>&gt; &gt; just does not interact with normal matter at all. (it is made <BR>&gt; &gt; up of Mesons<BR>&gt; &gt; after all, and they are really really really tiny).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'll concede that no actual teleportation is involved, but as there<BR>&gt; is no<BR>&gt; interaction with the matter between transmissiona and reception<BR>&gt; point, so it<BR>&gt; is ~effectively~ teleportation. Apologies for confusing the issue,<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; you're quite correct, a non-interactive beam is a much better<BR>&gt; description of<BR>&gt; the way meson guns function. But, as Leonard points out, you not only<BR>&gt; need<BR>&gt; direction, but also distance so you can focus the shot. This suggests<BR>&gt; that<BR>&gt; meson comms also require focusing on a reciever, not just pointing<BR>&gt; like a<BR>&gt; laser.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!<BR>http://calendar.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:49:39 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Meson Communications<BR><BR>They check for particles from supernovae with large tanks of dry<BR>cleaning fluid, IIRC.<BR>"Focussing" for meson weapons is a misnomer, you are timing the decay of<BR>the particles. This has the same effect as focussing for a beam weapon<BR>(concentrating an effect within an area), but the mechanism is quite different.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; IIRC, the receiver is the device which slows down the mesons, causing<BR>&gt; them to decay and releasing their information.&nbsp; Therefore, the meson<BR>&gt; communicator could be set for "infinity" range without problem.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --- "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; This suggests<BR>&gt; &gt; that<BR>&gt; &gt; meson comms also require focusing on a reciever, not just pointing<BR>&gt; &gt; like a<BR>&gt; &gt; laser.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/&nbsp;&nbsp; H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:01:14 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Laser hazards<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Rodney Basler [mailto:rgb@odetics.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 November 2000 02:22<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: Laser hazards<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Okay, this might sound a little silly, but I'm just a Law <BR>&gt; student who<BR>&gt; likes<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Traveller, but knows next to nothing about science. Lasers <BR>&gt; inflict their<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; damage by heat, right?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Only low powered ones do.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;High powered lasers do their damage by depositing so much energy in<BR>&gt; &gt;the target spot, so fast, that the material *explodes*.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; For what it's worth, medical lasers emit an infared <BR>&gt; wavelength that<BR>&gt; is absorbed by water; this causes the fluids inside the cells <BR>&gt; of the tissue<BR>&gt; to boil and explode.&nbsp; The beam is very tightly focused so <BR>&gt; they are able to<BR>&gt; destroy tiny amounts of tissue at a time.&nbsp; Unfortunately, <BR>&gt; this wavelength is<BR>&gt; also absorbed by plastics and many other materials, which has <BR>&gt; led to some<BR>&gt; messy accidents.&nbsp; There was at least one case during a <BR>&gt; vocal-cord surgery<BR>&gt; where the beam nicked the airway tube.&nbsp; The plastic ignited, <BR>&gt; since it was<BR>&gt; carrying oxygen, and created a blowtorch-like flame later <BR>&gt; determined to be<BR>&gt; up to 10 inches long....and aiming straight into the <BR>&gt; patient's lungs.&nbsp; When<BR>&gt; a laboratory later tried to test the temperature of the <BR>&gt; flame, it melted the<BR>&gt; thermocouple.&nbsp; There have been other cases of fires involving <BR>&gt; boxes and<BR>&gt; surgical drapes being ignited by stray shots from the laser.<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; All this was from an old issue (Oct 1998) of Photonics Spectra.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Guess it caused a nasty case of heartburn, huh?<BR><BR>Sorry, tasteless. <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:04:37 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Frank G. Pitt [mailto:frankie@mundens.gen.nz]<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 November 2000 04:52<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Gas Mixtures for Travellers (long)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Anybody ever use the toilet in a submarine?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I tried but the marine guard wouldn't eve let me in the <BR>&gt; submarine, let alone<BR>&gt; use the toilet.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>LOL. Did you try hopping around with you legs crossed and saying<BR>'Pleeeease!' ?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:07:34 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Sectors<BR><BR>GrandSurvey did have sector notes, but they became inaccessible when Anthony<BR>Jackson and the team started to revamp the site. Luckily I grabbed copies of<BR>the sector data files onto my HDD before this happened. With Anthony's<BR>permission, I'd be happy to mail them.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: James Jensen [mailto:cheeb0@hotmail.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 November 2000 01:20<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Sectors<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Question: Where can I find info (more than maps, mind you) <BR>&gt; for FREE on the <BR>&gt; following sectors (Year c.1100):<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Deneb<BR>&gt; Trojan Reach<BR>&gt; Reft<BR>&gt; Core<BR>&gt; Antares<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I thought knowing a little bit about the subsector lore might <BR>&gt; help me run <BR>&gt; campaigns there.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -J. Jensen<BR>&gt; ______________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; _______________________<BR>&gt; Get more from the Web.&nbsp; FREE MSN Explorer download : <BR>http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:37:03 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GT Sector Books<BR><BR>At 12:41 17.11.00 +1000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Capital would deserve a chapter of its own...<BR><BR>Yup, I fully agree. Along the same lines, I also would have liked even more <BR>detailed data on Terra in RoF.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:57:40 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Andromeda<BR><BR>Thom Jones-Low wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I have all the B5 episodes on tape, including the movies and&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; Crusade series (which wasn't *that* bad, and may be&nbsp; coming&nbsp; back<BR>&gt; &gt; according to Peter Woodward at Gencon UK&nbsp; 2K),&nbsp; and&nbsp; I'm&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; Farscape on DVD as they come out (as well as Lexx and Buffy).<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; Do you have any more info than rumor about Crusade?&nbsp; Last I checked of<BR>&gt; JMS's schedule he had a very full plate with no mention or returning to<BR>&gt; the show. <BR><BR>No, the only 'info' I have was from Peter&nbsp; Woodward&nbsp; (who&nbsp; played<BR>Galen in the show).&nbsp; He said that there were 'talks' going on&nbsp; at<BR>(IIRC) SciFi Channel to resume the series from where&nbsp; it&nbsp; stopped<BR>... but with more appearances from original B5 characters.<BR><BR>(I didn't talk to him for&nbsp; very&nbsp; long&nbsp; at&nbsp; Gencon&nbsp; UK&nbsp; as&nbsp; I&nbsp; was<BR>unfortuneatly ill for most of&nbsp; the&nbsp; convention&nbsp; ...&nbsp; I&nbsp; was&nbsp; just<BR>making a brief stop in the traders' hall when I met him.)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:01:37 EST<BR>From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Sectors<BR><BR>There is a link on www.sjgames.com/gurps traveller site for Anthony's Map <BR>site...I don't know the year of the sector maps but the work is <BR>fantastic...Each sector and subsector is laid out in print quality .PDF <BR>files..Anthony if you are on the list...fantastic job!<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:01:36 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lexx( Was&nbsp; Andromeda)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I have all the B5 episodes on tape, including the movies and&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Crusade series (which wasn't *that* bad, and may be&nbsp; coming&nbsp; back<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; according to Peter Woodward at Gencon UK&nbsp; 2K),&nbsp; and&nbsp; I'm&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Farscape on DVD as they come out (as well as Lexx and Buffy).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is Lexx out on DVD? I've not found it anywhere.<BR><BR>Clarification: I have Farscape on DVD, I have&nbsp; Lexx&nbsp; on&nbsp; tape,&nbsp; I<BR>have Buffy on tape but season 1 is about to come out on Region&nbsp; 2<BR>DVD right now (and will probably get it for Christmas).<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:02:59 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Sectors<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Qstor@aol.com [mailto:Qstor@aol.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 November 2000 13:02<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Sectors<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There is a link on www.sjgames.com/gurps traveller site for <BR>&gt; Anthony's Map <BR>&gt; site...I don't know the year of the sector maps but the work is <BR>&gt; fantastic...Each sector and subsector is laid out in print <BR>&gt; quality .PDF <BR>&gt; files..Anthony if you are on the list...fantastic job!<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>He is, and I agree. Nice one, Anthony!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3299<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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